July 9, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode of the Paper Trail Podcast, Chris Seveney sits down with Jay Redding, co-founder of Cassidy Investment Group and a seasoned real estate investor with over two decades of experience. Known for his collaborative investing approach with his son-in-law, Jay has focused heavily on seller-financed notes and brings a deep, practical perspective on building long-term wealth through relationships, due diligence, and conservative deal structuring.
Chris and Jay dive into how their philosophies align around integrity, risk management, and adapting with market cycles. Jay also shares stories from his early investing days, how his farm upbringing shaped his mindset, and what he hopes attendees will take away from his session at the Paper Trail Conference.
If you're curious about seller financing, real-world investing strategies, and how seasoned pros think about legacy and returns, this episode is a must-listen. Catch Jay live at the Paper Trail Conference, September 18–20 in Chandler, AZ.
Register at papertrailconference.com to join us.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:44):
On this episode of the PaperTrail podcast, we are doing a get
to know your speaker.
We are hosting the paper trailconference September 18th to 20th
in Chandler, Arizona.
Go to papertrailconference.comfor more information.
And today I spoke with JayRedding of Cassidy Investment Group.
(01:04):
Jay has been in real estateinvesting for over 20 years.
In the last 10 years, him andhis son in law, who was the one who
got him into note investingspace, have been investing in all
different types of notes andyou know, recently have been doing
a lot more seller financing.
So he's going to be one of thespeakers on one of our seller financing
(01:25):
panels.
It was a great episode wherewe talk about how to be an investor,
what are the philosophies,what he's going to be talking about,
the conference, give him alittle insight without spoiling the
entire session and really justboil down to what the space is about.
(01:46):
So hope you enjoy this episodeand also again, hope to meet you
at the Paper Trail conference.
Welcome Jay.
How are you today?
I'm doing fantastic, Chris,great to be with you.
This is going to be a funepisode because Jay and I go back
little ways and we also arepart of a little group that hosts
(02:08):
a monthly webinar as well astalking about notes.
So it's always a pleasure tospeak with you.
Jay, why don't we as we getstarted, have you start with your
story and how did you getinvolved in note investing in the
first place?
Well, I'll even go back alittle further.
(02:28):
I actually started on the realestate side as many note investors
do, like we all do.
But I did my first real estatedeal back in 2004 and then my son
in law came on board.
I think it was right around 2014.
That was Kyle and he'sactually the one that got us interested
(02:53):
in looking at the notes.
He's a very smart young man.
He doesn't want to managerentals for the rest of his life.
And that was so, you know, thebig question was, is that okay, so
you know, let's, let's lookwhat else is out there besides what
we're doing here.
And he basically said, youknow, I think I have an interest
(03:16):
in looking at the notes.
It fits more of my personalityand everything.
So, so we started doing someresearch, you know, who's the players,
who's got experience, who'sdone this for a while, who's been
through, I think this is animportant factor.
Who's been through market cycles?
Not just who's the, who's thehot topic.
At the time.
(03:37):
And our mentors have basicallybeen down to really, a couple of
different people.
I know.
You know, Eddie Speed, allright, He's a mentor, and we've gone
through note school.
And then also Fred and TracyRui, which I know you know, so those
have really been the core ofwho our mentors have been.
(03:58):
Of course, I've learned a fewthings from you as well along the
way, and a few other people.
So it's not just one person, but.
But that's kind of how we got started.
And the more we got into it,it's like, oh, I like this.
Okay.
I mean, I'm getting older.
All right.
And where I have one child,all right.
That Kyle's married to, so,you know where everything's going.
(04:19):
So it's kind of the nextgeneration thing.
It's like, oh, this issomething I can do until.
Until, you know, you put me inthe grave or I lose my mental faculties.
So.
So that's basically how wereally got going, so.
No, that's great.
And one thing I'll mentionthat you touched upon is the people
who you affiliate andassociate yourself with who have
(04:41):
been around a very long timeand have a very good reputation.
People don't realize how smallthis space is, and if you get caught
up in the wrong little click,it can be very detrimental, is what
I have found.
Yes, it can.
So we chose wisely, Obi Wan.
Yes.
(05:03):
So what's something about thejourney since you started in 2004
and then Kyle in 2014, reallyfocused more on notes that most people
kind of don't know about thespace, but they probably should?
Well, let's see here.
That wasn't exactly how Ithought the question was gonna be.
(05:24):
Well, how would you view the question?
Well, I was thinking of what'ssomething that someone, you know,
doesn't really know about methat maybe they should?
Okay, okay, well, let's, let'srephrase it.
And I'm gonna edit the podcast.
So let me.
Yeah, let me redo this and say.
So what's something about yourjourney, Jay, that most people don't
(05:45):
know, but probably should?
Very simple.
I mean, I, I, I grew up on ahog and dairy farm.
Okay.
I am a country kid.
All right?
I was a PE major in college.
All right.
Physical education.
Physical education, yeah.
Okay.
So if I can figure this out,all right, Anyone can do this is
(06:10):
the bottom line.
I grew up on a farm.
We had 100 hogs, pigs.
Okay?
25 dairy cattle, and a 200acre farm is what we Basically had
and out in the middle of rural Indiana.
And that's how I grew up andcertainly gave me good work ethic.
(06:33):
Okay.
Obviously in that respect.
But it's just learning throughthe process.
And so it doesn't matter your background.
So I'm essentially getting to.
All right, it really does not matter.
You, you, you get with goodpeople, you learn, you got to learn
the fundamentals, obviously,and you start growing from there.
(06:55):
So I have two spin offquestions to that.
One is, did you name your hogs names?
Some of them we did, yeah.
And the saying, I guess, thata lot of people like to use is, you
know, pigs get fat and happyand hogs get slaughtered.
That l probably, you know, wasvery true.
I know that very literallybecause you know where we got our
(07:20):
meat.
Yeah.
So.
So, you know, as people investand, you know, everyone's got, you
know, different philosophies,but most people usually stick by
one philosophy that they go by.
If you could boil yours downinto, you know, one sentence, what
(07:43):
would it be and where did itcome from?
Okay, I, I am veryconservative by nature.
All right.
And as a result, I learnedthis comes from the real estate side.
Always have multiple exitstrategies if the deal doesn't go
the way you have it planned.
All right.
On the real estate side, wealways, always planned at least three
(08:07):
exit strategies, and that hasprotected us unbelievably well over
the years.
And the same is in nodes.
You got to figure out, okay,how am I protected?
What's the worst case scenario?
And if everything else about,you know, happens better than that,
then we're good.
So it's the preservation ofcapital first, and then it's the
(08:27):
return and capital second tomake sure that you've got multiple
exit strategies that willprotect you.
I always like to look at it alittle different light of when people
say they're either moreconservative or the more aggressive.
I look at the other way is youeither truly understand risk or you
kind of don't, or you do butjust ignore it is really the way
(08:49):
I look at it.
And as you get older, youunderstand risk more because you've
been burned more.
So people will say, oh, you'remore conservative.
It's like, no, I justunderstand risk a lot better and
realize, like, do I reallywant to take that risk on this one
or, you know, what you want togo through?
So.
Well, the other, the otherthing would be as you get farther,
further down the road, youdon't have time to recover.
(09:11):
That's the thing.
Yep.
All right, you Know, someonethat's of my age group, and obviously,
in talking with a number ofpeople, I mean, their concern is
like, okay, if things go nutsin the market, all right, unlike
with the Great recession, ittook 8, 9, 10 years just to get back
to zero.
I may not have that Runway.
And it's like, yeah, so you,you, you, as you do get order, your.
(09:34):
Your wisdom starts to come andevolve because you've gotten burned
along the way.
And it's like, maybe not.
And you care more, you know,because it's the bigger consequences.
That's right.
That's right.
But, you know, as part ofthat, you know, what's a principle
you live by in business thatkind of guides away?
(09:55):
You treat your.
Your vendors, your borrowers,your partners, your investors.
I know you raise some capital.
You have some investors as well.
So what's kind of, you know, some.
Some.
Something you live by as a principle.
Very simple integrity.
Do what you're going to sayyou're going to do, and do it in
(10:16):
a time frame that you sayyou're going to do.
It's as simple.
It's.
Mine's the same way.
And I literally had that samecall with somebody yesterday that
we are arguing over something that.
I mean, this wasn't even, likea gray area of a contract.
It was black and white, asblack and white could be in regards
to a specific item in thescope of work.
(10:37):
And the person's like, well, Ididn't, you know, kept trying to
rephrase their words to tryand find a way so they didn't have
to do the work.
And at the end of the day,thankfully, I hadn't paid them for
it.
And I basically told them,like, you know what?
Fine, let's just walk away.
You go be you.
I do me, and go on our way.
(11:00):
And now that person is ontheir way, but they now kind of,
I think, have some regrets andare now trying to, like, come back
and save it.
And to me, it's like, no, yousaid you're going to do something.
You didn't, and you didn't.
That's right.
Called your bluff.
And now it's like you want totry and kiss and make up, you know,
Sorry.
Yeah.
And.
And one additional thing.
(11:20):
Do it to the best of your ability.
Yep.
That's the other thing.
So, yeah, yeah, just do whatyou're going to say you're going
to do.
And, yeah, sometimes, you knowwhat hits the fan and just be honest
with people and.
Exactly.
Bad news is never pleasant.
But I'd rather have Somebodyknow, bad news sooner rather than
later.
Well, and I, you know, ifsomething goes screwy, okay.
(11:43):
And it's bad news, okay, bring it.
Let's talk, let's work throughit, okay?
If we, if we're on the samepage, we're trying to go the same
direction and something's justhappened that's that screwed everything
up.
There's many ways we can workthrough things, all right, and, and
you know, things happen.
Sometimes you just have todeal with it and, but man, be honest.
(12:04):
So that's the bottom line.
Know who your counterparty is.
That's the other thing.
All right?
The integrity of your county counterparty.
Literally before I jumped onthis call one minute late because
I was actually on the callwith my attorney going through a
loan sale agreement that,let's just say the way the loan sale
agreement is written is if youever have to go back for them for
(12:27):
anything, whether it's a, youknow, a launch that was missed or
screwed up or any type ofdocument, my attorney's like, recognize
you are not going to get itand they're not obligated to give
it to you.
And I'm like, why would I signthis contract?
He's like, that's a business decision.
But based off of how youoperate, I wouldn't execute this.
(12:47):
So.
Okay, so let's talk a littlebit about paper trail conference
that I was, I don't know if Iwas drunk when I agreed to this or
what not to do.
It's been in the back of mymind at times and you know, basically
kind of has formed indifferent circles and stuff.
(13:09):
But you know, a little bitabout, for people listening what
I was my accomplishment orwhat I'm trying to target is I haven't
really seen a conference thatfocuses on the three main aspects
of note investing.
Now I'm a non performing note guy.
That is what I am.
I am not a, you know, seller,finance guy.
Private lending, a little bitin my wheelhouse, but not the, I'll
(13:32):
call it not something that I'mthe expert in do as part of my entire
business process.
And I've seen a lot of peopleover the last year or two jump around
into the different avenues of that.
And I wanted to just bringeveryone together to kind of let
people decide what it isbecause I'm on bigger pockets and
I see people doing, oh, I wantto do this, I want to do that.
And there's not one place youcan go try and talk to people and
(13:55):
learn.
So now that's why it'simportant for me.
I'm curious why it's importantfor you to be a part of this event
and a speaker.
And I know your response isgoing to be, because Chris is awesome
and you just want to be a partof something that I'm a part of,
but outside of that.
(14:15):
Okay, well, I, I.
First of all, I would clearlysay I respect you, Chris, and you've
already.
I've always known you as beinga straight shooter, and you call
BS when BS needs to be called,and sometimes it gets you in trouble,
but that's okay.
I can live with that.
So sometimes a little too much trouble.
(14:36):
But not too often.
I do get sued.
But why it's important to meis I want to be associated with people
who have great integrity, whohave good conferences.
I like the.
I.
I am an educator at heart.
(14:56):
Okay.
I do have a teaching degree.
All right.
But it's now gone way, wayexpired a long time ago, like 50
years ago.
But I still have that at heart.
And I do like being able toteach and help people grow.
And I was also one.
I was a track and field coach also.
(15:17):
I had.
That's another side note.
But I coached Division 1 trackand field for a few years, so.
Kent State University.
Okay.
Okay.
So.
So I guess that's in my bloodto a certain degree.
So I enjoy that.
I want to be associated withgreat people who have great integrity
(15:38):
and run good businesses.
And I, I'm.
I'm sure you'll put on a verygood conference.
I have no question about that.
The one thing you mentionedagain, about the education side is
I know you provide, you know,you host, I think, you know, like
a webinar.
We do, yeah, we do a notetalks with Kyle and J.
We do it one time a month iswhat we do.
(15:58):
It's kind of our give back iswhat it is.
Yep.
And you also, I know, dropnote nuggets, you know, and stuff.
Tidbits.
That's right.
Yep.
No tidbits as well.
Apologize.
But.
And again, for people who arelistening and trying to, again, either
gain more experience in thespace or learn a specialty or skill,
(16:18):
the more people you canconnect with and learn from, the
better off you are.
So, you know Jay well, all hisinformation will be in the show notes.
So, you know, I recommend givehim a.
Give him a follow.
Sure.
Okay.
So without spoiling, you know,your whole session, and, you know,
what's one thing you hopeattendees, you know, will either
feel, learn or thinkdifferently about after hearing you
(16:42):
speak and provide them thisgreat content that you're going to
provide them.
Well, Chris, as you say, weall come from different, different
niches.
You're an NPL guy.
Okay.
I'm a seller finance guy.
Okay.
We've done a bunch ourselves.
We buy.
I'm comfortable in buyingseller finance notes.
(17:05):
I appreciate in helping peopleto improve their quality of their
notes so they don't have totake as big of a discount.
All right, so my goal is Ihope to help people, particularly
house buyers, wholesalers, fixand flippers.
(17:26):
I hope to be able to help themto raise their gain.
Many, many of them do notrealize the value that a no investor
can bring to them.
So I hope to be able to sharewith them.
All right.
How we can come in and helpthem recapitalize, but we can only
help them recapitalize and godo another deal with them, keeping
(17:46):
part of the deal on the backend that they make more money over
the long term if they create aquality note.
So my hope is, is that I canshow them how we can help them to
recapitalize the importance ofhaving a relationship with a note
buyer and, and giving us theopportunity to help them elevate
how they're creating the notesso that they don't have to take nearly
(18:08):
as deep of a discount and helppropel their business forward as
well.
No, it's awesome and I knowpeople get a lot more out of the
session, but no, as a highlevel, that's what people look for.
Honestly.
That'S what we hope to deliver.
And I know Tracy Rui and Iare, we've been talking back and
(18:32):
forth.
She's kind of running the, theseller finance part.
So I don't know what thefinal, how it's going to look, but
I think we're probably justgoing to have a discussion.
So I think we're going to do,I don't know.
So, yeah, yeah, we're tryingto, you know, again, shape it where,
you know, there's discussionsthat people can have that are real
world discussions.
And then we're having someworkshops too, where, you know, going
(18:52):
to ask people, you know, breakopen that notebook and you know,
but put on your thinking capand stick that cell phone, you know,
kind of, you know, in yourpocket because there's going to be
a fire hose of informationgetting thrown at you, especially
for a few of the ones that I'mgoing to be doing.
It'll be good.
It'll be good.
Okay.
Now you've worked with allkinds of investors.
(19:16):
Good, the bad, the ugly, the indifferent.
You Know, in your mind, youknow what makes a great investor,
in your opinion?
Well, first of all, you got todecide whether you want to be an
active investor or whetheryou're going to be a passive investor.
There are two profiles.
They're two totally differenttype of investors and personalities,
(19:40):
etc.
If you're going to be apassive investor in one, want to
leverage our skill sets.
When I say I mean mine, yours,et cetera, okay?
Our skill sets, ourconnections, all right?
Our sources and our knowledge.
That is great, okay?
And if you're busy with yourcareer, you're busy with your profession,
(20:03):
you run a business, you'reretired, you just want to earn a
great income, all right, andget a good return on your money.
We're handling all the heavylifting in that respect, and let
us handle it, okay?
But don't expect the same typeof returns, all right, as if you're
(20:24):
taking all the risk, all right?
That's really important tounderstand that difference.
Now, if you're an activeinvestor and you're wanting to get
in and develop therelationships, all right, it's going
to take some work.
Takes time to developrelationships with people and with
organizations that have thenotes that they know that you're.
(20:47):
You're.
You're real and that you canperform and you're going to do what
you say you're going to do,because that's absolutely the surest
way of slitting your throat inthis business to say, hey, I'm going
to perform.
And then you then, then youback out the last second.
You just, you just kissed yourcredibility goodbye at that point.
So.
But that's a different.
(21:07):
That's a different animal inthat situation, all right?
You can earn the higheryields, the higher returns, all right?
But you got to get knowledge.
You got to get knowledgeablefrom credible sources of people who
are in the trenches is doingit and learning and be patient in
learning that even be willingto mirror and not.
Not do anything but just kindof be a sponge.
(21:30):
I've been through fortunate tobe a chrome at some pretty big tables
and not, you know, just soakup the knowledge, man.
Just soak it up.
And you got to be willing topay your dues along the way to be
able to do that.
So, yeah, yeah, for me, youknow, I define it kind of, you know,
within one word, and I'll use authenticity.
(21:52):
Authenticity.
That's exactly.
Yeah, that's exactly what youjust outlined is figure out what
it is you want to do.
Do you want to be active?
Do you want to be Passive, youknow, don't.
Just because I'm doingsomething or you're doing something,
like what you're doing and I'mdoing are very, very different because.
Yeah, but it works for you.
(22:12):
What you do kind of wouldn'twork for me, and maybe it would,
but I might.
Maybe I'd be bored.
Or you might look at what I doand say, you're nuts.
That would be boring to me.
It's going to be somethingthat you enjoy to do, but don't try
to pretend to be somebody orsomething you are not, because that's.
That's where this whole FOMOcomes into play and kind of roll
(22:33):
into the next question ofwhat's one mistake you see newer
investors make that you tryand help them avoid?
I think there's two.
And I was.
I would say we were a littlebit part of this also.
We just couldn't figure outthe strategy that we wanted to use
what fit us.
It took us.
You know, I like partials.
All right.
(22:54):
But the partial model justdidn't necessarily work for what
we needed to do for.
In our business, for where wewere at.
So we went the hypothecation route.
Okay.
Now, hypothecation may not befor somebody.
Okay.
All right.
So get knowledgeable in enoughknowledge in the different areas
to figure out what fits youand what you want to accomplish.
(23:15):
That's the first thing.
The second thing is newbiesdon't do enough due diligence, period.
On everything.
Who you're buying from, whoyou're learning from, any part of
it.
So here.
So here.
And even the experiencedpeople don't do due diligence sometimes.
And here's a perfect example.
(23:36):
I'll share this.
And this was me the other day.
I saw a video on Instagram byan individual who basically says
a lot of things that you think.
And what I mean by that isthere was a Facebook ad I saw that
had a 45% annual return on investment.
(23:57):
And I just laughed.
I'm like, okay, real estate.
And then I did a Google, andthere's this guy who does TikTok
Instagram, where he takes allthese fund offerings and he basically
deep dives into them and doesresearch on them to basically find
out, yeah, they're scams.
And there was one, forexample, he did on a company back
(24:20):
in 2020 or 2021 that when Istarted my company in 2022, I was
looking up this other companyto kind of see what they did, because
I know if they'd be acompetitor and I'm like, wow, these
people are really shady.
I knew three years ago thatthey were going to be in trouble.
Which now today, of courseunder investigation and all this
stuff.
He knew it before then, but Iposted something about him.
(24:41):
Hey, this guy provides somelike, cool videos and just fun to
entertain.
Someone's like, yeah, did youknow that guy was on American Greed?
And the reason why he knowsall this stuff was because he spent
like 10 years in jail becausehe was like the fraudsters of fr.
But I'm like, well, it takesone to no one.
No one.
That's right.
I didn't do my due diligenceto realize what this guy is.
But, you know, and again,it's, I would never associate myself
(25:02):
with this person.
But he also, you know, youspent 10 years in prison doing, you
know, money fraud within realestate offerings.
So basically it's like, yeah,this guy actually probably does know
what he's doing.
But even goes to show that,you know, no matter what it is in
the newer guys, you know,really struggle with due diligence.
And one of the things that Ilook at sometimes when I'll get a
(25:23):
note accepted and then theperson's like, two days later, like,
okay, I'm ready to fund.
And I'm like, ray of fund.
I'm like, did you check titleor bpo?
And he's like, oh, I wentonline and you know, I did a Zillow
and basically I went on thecounty records and I'm like, okay,
but you know, I'm the typewill tell.
I'm like, hey, if you'rebuying a note, here's what you should
(25:44):
be doing.
But I'm not going to tell youhow to do your business.
Right, Right.
So, okay.
Oh, you've made it through thefirst round of interrogations.
You know, you, your score is a96 out of 100.
I knocked you docked you fourpoints because the last question
(26:05):
I asked for one mistake and ofcourse you gave me two.
Okay, that's a bonus.
That was one and a bonus.
Okay.
Okay, so I'm have to bump youback up.
So I'm 104 now.
Okay, there you go.
So a little lightning round.
And I joke because when I wasputting these things together, I'm
like, you know what?
Describe in one word.
And I'm like, I have never, Ithink ever said one word in my life.
(26:27):
And I'm like, how couldanybody else?
But let's see if we can get there.
So the one word to describethe current market changing.
Yeah, my term would Bevolatile was term I would think of.
We wanted to go into details,but people just, I think, you know,
(26:47):
can understand.
What's one thing you'vechanged your mind about in the last
year?
Now, this can be more than oneword, of course, but.
Well, let's see here.
How to adapt.
I think that's the best thing.
Okay.
You know.
Yeah.
Both on the real estate sideas well as on the note side, there
(27:09):
are different cycles, all right.
In the market.
And you need to be able tounderstand where we're at in the
market cycle right now, andwhere do we anticipate that market
cycle going?
So you want to be planning for going.
You know, here is it.
I love Eddie to death.
(27:30):
Here is an Eddieism.
Okay.
That is apropos.
All right.
You don't swing where theball's at.
You swing where the ball's heading.
Yeah.
All right.
And so where's the ball heading?
All right?
And so you gotta.
You gotta be.
I.
I try to do a better job ofstaying aware of different reports
(27:51):
to know kind of what'shappening in the market and where
it's going.
I.
And anticipate.
Try to anticipate.
And it's never going to be ahundred percent, but you have a feeling
for where we're at in thecycles and where the cycle's going
and what changes may becoming, and then you're prepared,
all right.
Both from a positive side totake advantage of those opportunities
(28:13):
as well as protecting on thedownside that that could be happening
as well.
So I.
I think that I have probablybeen a little bit more aggressive,
particularly in the lastcouple years, than what I was initially
when I was first getting started.
No.
Great advice.
And, you know, I know you haveall your accomplishments in life.
(28:35):
Me to thank for this, but.
You have a little bit in there.
Okay.
If there were to be one personyou would thank for your success,
who would that be?
I cannot name one, literally.
That's the best answer,actually, because I'm sitting here,
like, I couldn't.
Like, you know, I couldn'tname one person that, you know, there's
(28:55):
so many people.
Yeah, there's so many people.
There's.
That I've picked up goldnuggets from.
All right.
Because of their experiences,and I can.
I could put it in and draw upon that.
So it's an input of multiple people.
So I just.
I'm just humble and gratefulthat I have the opportunity to do
(29:17):
this, and I'm.
I'm grateful to be in thesituation that we're at Right now.
And, and I gotta say that's,that's a blessing from Almighty is
awesome from God, for, for me.
Great.
Well, as we wrap up thisepisode of the Paper Trail podcast
in a little get to know yourspeaker with Jay Redding, who will
(29:42):
be one of the speakers at theconference September 18th to 20th
outside in Chandler, Arizona.
Any final thoughts that you'dlike to add or anything in general,
anything on your mind that you like?
You being a therapist now too, huh?
I would just say I.
(30:03):
Wherever you're at in thisnote cycle, maybe, maybe you've just
heard about notes, you knownothing about it.
Okay, come.
Come and learn.
All right.
I like the format, Chris, thatyou're putting together here because
there are so different,different areas of note investing
(30:24):
that you can invest in.
And you know, what you have tobe careful of is that you don't try
to do them all.
Don't get the shiny objectsyndrome as people often get on the
real estate side.
But come and learn and think,okay, what fits my personality, what
fits me, what resources do I have?
All right, what can I, whatcan I build upon?
(30:44):
All right.
And help you determine what'sthe next steps in that respect.
And many of us would behelpful, be willing to help in that
respect.
So that would, that would beall that I would say.
Yeah.
And here's a perfect exampleof that that I'll share just about
me and my portfolio.
And you know, previously inthe last several years, you know,
(31:05):
we'd have a balance ofperforming and non performing loans
in our portfolio and a lot ofperforming may have been non performing
that are re performing or wewould pick and choose some of the
performing loans that we would buy.
And it was pretty easy becausemost of the paper was written between
kind of like 6 and 9%.
So you could put some discounton it and still get a decent return.
(31:26):
But you look at the true, I'llcall it like performing owner occupied
type loans today, that most ofthem are from COVID and they're written
at like 3 or 4% and you can'tget the numbers to work.
No.
So I'm like, okay, what do Ineed to do to again go back to adapt,
(31:47):
which we talked about and makethis shift.
And you know, I was honestly,and I've, you know, it's on record
so I really can't hide from it.
At times I was not the biggestproponent of seller finance.
I'd rather just sell the loan.
But now it's like, oh, thingshave changed.
My business has changed alittle bit.
Okay.
(32:07):
Do I look at seller financingor buying some of those notes?
Do I look at private lending?
Do some of that aspect.
It's like, what path do I go down?
And, you know, getting to beable to speak to people in.
In the space at the same time,where I can go in the same day and
go learn a little bit aboutthis or that and then talk to people
(32:28):
and say, what's the pros andcons with each?
And just, you know, becausemost conferences, again, are either
strict NPL conference, sellerfinance conference, private lending
conference, or maybe a littlebit of mix, but I haven't seen any
bring all three together.
So that's what, you know,that's what I'm trying to accomplish
out of all this.
So I, I would encourage,regardless of where you're at in
(32:51):
your journey to come, becauseyour connections and Chris, I.
I know you know this.
Yeah.
You.
You're going to makeconnections there with vendors.
That's going to help you tomove forward in your business with
other people who might be aperfect match.
I mean, we've made.
We've made contacts that haveelevated our business.
(33:12):
We have made deals with other people.
All right.
At these conferences.
All right.
To be able to strike up the relationship.
And yeah, you may know eachother from emailing back and forth
or talking to a Zoom call orsomething like that, but sitting
down with someone over dinner,over a meal, talking, getting to
know each other, theirpersonality types, all that type
(33:33):
of stuff, that's where youforge relationships and that's where
you grow.
So that's the importance ofbeing at conferences.
And I was at a conferencewhere somebody I've known, I met
them several times.
All of a sudden I was like,oh, do you know this person?
And I'm like, no.
You're like, oh, come with me.
Had me meet this person, andnext thing you know, I just bought
(33:56):
$5 million of loans from that person.
And like, oh, my Lord.
Like, you know, so there's somuch opportunity to network.
And again, today's world ofZoom and everything else.
Yes, you can meet people, butstill, getting face to face is still
the best way to grow your business.
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
(34:17):
Oh, Jay, thanks for hopping onthis episode of the Paper Trail Podcast.
And for people, if you wantmore information about the conference
again, go to the Papertrailconference dot com.
Jay, thanks again.
And I'll actually be seeingyou in a half hour or on our next
one.
(34:38):
Thank you.
Make sure to leave us a likeand review.
Okay, thank you all.
All right, bye.
Bye.
Take care.
On this episode of the PaperTrail podcast, we are doing a get
to know your speaker.
We are hosting the paper trailconference September 18th to 20th
in Chandler, Arizona.
Go to papertrailconference.comfor more information.
And today I spoke with JayRedding of Cassidy Investment Group.
(01:04):
Jay has been in real estateinvesting for over 20 years.
In the last 10 years, him andhis son in law, who was the one who
got him into note investingspace, have been investing in all
different types of notes andyou know, recently have been doing
a lot more seller financing.
So he's going to be one of thespeakers on one of our seller financing
(01:25):
panels.
It was a great episode wherewe talk about how to be an investor,
what are the philosophies,what he's going to be talking about,
the conference, give him alittle insight without spoiling the
entire session and really justboil down to what the space is about.
(01:46):
So hope you enjoy this episodeand also again, hope to meet you
at the Paper Trail conference.
Welcome Jay.
How are you today?
I'm doing fantastic, Chris,great to be with you.
This is going to be a funepisode because Jay and I go back
little ways and we also arepart of a little group that hosts
(02:08):
a monthly webinar as well astalking about notes.
So it's always a pleasure tospeak with you.
Jay, why don't we as we getstarted, have you start with your
story and how did you getinvolved in note investing in the
first place?
Well, I'll even go back alittle further.
(02:28):
I actually started on the realestate side as many note investors
do, like we all do.
But I did my first real estatedeal back in 2004 and then my son
in law came on board.
I think it was right around 2014.
That was Kyle and he'sactually the one that got us interested
(02:53):
in looking at the notes.
He's a very smart young man.
He doesn't want to managerentals for the rest of his life.
And that was so, you know, thebig question was, is that okay, so
you know, let's, let's lookwhat else is out there besides what
we're doing here.
And he basically said, youknow, I think I have an interest
(03:16):
in looking at the notes.
It fits more of my personalityand everything.
So, so we started doing someresearch, you know, who's the players,
who's got experience, who'sdone this for a while, who's been
through, I think this is animportant factor.
Who's been through market cycles?
Not just who's the, who's thehot topic.
At the time.
(03:37):
And our mentors have basicallybeen down to really, a couple of
different people.
I know.
You know, Eddie Speed, allright, He's a mentor, and we've gone
through note school.
And then also Fred and TracyRui, which I know you know, so those
have really been the core ofwho our mentors have been.
(03:58):
Of course, I've learned a fewthings from you as well along the
way, and a few other people.
So it's not just one person, but.
But that's kind of how we got started.
And the more we got into it,it's like, oh, I like this.
Okay.
I mean, I'm getting older.
All right.
And where I have one child,all right.
That Kyle's married to, so,you know where everything's going.
(04:19):
So it's kind of the nextgeneration thing.
It's like, oh, this issomething I can do until.
Until, you know, you put me inthe grave or I lose my mental faculties.
So.
So that's basically how wereally got going, so.
No, that's great.
And one thing I'll mentionthat you touched upon is the people
who you affiliate andassociate yourself with who have
(04:41):
been around a very long timeand have a very good reputation.
People don't realize how smallthis space is, and if you get caught
up in the wrong little click,it can be very detrimental, is what
I have found.
Yes, it can.
So we chose wisely, Obi Wan.
Yes.
(05:03):
So what's something about thejourney since you started in 2004
and then Kyle in 2014, reallyfocused more on notes that most people
kind of don't know about thespace, but they probably should?
Well, let's see here.
That wasn't exactly how Ithought the question was gonna be.
(05:24):
Well, how would you view the question?
Well, I was thinking of what'ssomething that someone, you know,
doesn't really know about methat maybe they should?
Okay, okay, well, let's, let'srephrase it.
And I'm gonna edit the podcast.
So let me.
Yeah, let me redo this and say.
So what's something about yourjourney, Jay, that most people don't
(05:45):
know, but probably should?
Very simple.
I mean, I, I, I grew up on ahog and dairy farm.
Okay.
I am a country kid.
All right?
I was a PE major in college.
All right.
Physical education.
Physical education, yeah.
Okay.
So if I can figure this out,all right, Anyone can do this is
(06:10):
the bottom line.
I grew up on a farm.
We had 100 hogs, pigs.
Okay?
25 dairy cattle, and a 200acre farm is what we Basically had
and out in the middle of rural Indiana.
And that's how I grew up andcertainly gave me good work ethic.
(06:33):
Okay.
Obviously in that respect.
But it's just learning throughthe process.
And so it doesn't matter your background.
So I'm essentially getting to.
All right, it really does not matter.
You, you, you get with goodpeople, you learn, you got to learn
the fundamentals, obviously,and you start growing from there.
(06:55):
So I have two spin offquestions to that.
One is, did you name your hogs names?
Some of them we did, yeah.
And the saying, I guess, thata lot of people like to use is, you
know, pigs get fat and happyand hogs get slaughtered.
That l probably, you know, wasvery true.
I know that very literallybecause you know where we got our
(07:20):
meat.
Yeah.
So.
So, you know, as people investand, you know, everyone's got, you
know, different philosophies,but most people usually stick by
one philosophy that they go by.
If you could boil yours downinto, you know, one sentence, what
(07:43):
would it be and where did itcome from?
Okay, I, I am veryconservative by nature.
All right.
And as a result, I learnedthis comes from the real estate side.
Always have multiple exitstrategies if the deal doesn't go
the way you have it planned.
All right.
On the real estate side, wealways, always planned at least three
(08:07):
exit strategies, and that hasprotected us unbelievably well over
the years.
And the same is in nodes.
You got to figure out, okay,how am I protected?
What's the worst case scenario?
And if everything else about,you know, happens better than that,
then we're good.
So it's the preservation ofcapital first, and then it's the
(08:27):
return and capital second tomake sure that you've got multiple
exit strategies that willprotect you.
I always like to look at it alittle different light of when people
say they're either moreconservative or the more aggressive.
I look at the other way is youeither truly understand risk or you
kind of don't, or you do butjust ignore it is really the way
(08:49):
I look at it.
And as you get older, youunderstand risk more because you've
been burned more.
So people will say, oh, you'remore conservative.
It's like, no, I justunderstand risk a lot better and
realize, like, do I reallywant to take that risk on this one
or, you know, what you want togo through?
So.
Well, the other, the otherthing would be as you get farther,
further down the road, youdon't have time to recover.
(09:11):
That's the thing.
Yep.
All right, you Know, someonethat's of my age group, and obviously,
in talking with a number ofpeople, I mean, their concern is
like, okay, if things go nutsin the market, all right, unlike
with the Great recession, ittook 8, 9, 10 years just to get back
to zero.
I may not have that Runway.
And it's like, yeah, so you,you, you, as you do get order, your.
(09:34):
Your wisdom starts to come andevolve because you've gotten burned
along the way.
And it's like, maybe not.
And you care more, you know,because it's the bigger consequences.
That's right.
That's right.
But, you know, as part ofthat, you know, what's a principle
you live by in business thatkind of guides away?
(09:55):
You treat your.
Your vendors, your borrowers,your partners, your investors.
I know you raise some capital.
You have some investors as well.
So what's kind of, you know, some.
Some.
Something you live by as a principle.
Very simple integrity.
Do what you're going to sayyou're going to do, and do it in
(10:16):
a time frame that you sayyou're going to do.
It's as simple.
It's.
Mine's the same way.
And I literally had that samecall with somebody yesterday that
we are arguing over something that.
I mean, this wasn't even, likea gray area of a contract.
It was black and white, asblack and white could be in regards
to a specific item in thescope of work.
(10:37):
And the person's like, well, Ididn't, you know, kept trying to
rephrase their words to tryand find a way so they didn't have
to do the work.
And at the end of the day,thankfully, I hadn't paid them for
it.
And I basically told them,like, you know what?
Fine, let's just walk away.
You go be you.
I do me, and go on our way.
(11:00):
And now that person is ontheir way, but they now kind of,
I think, have some regrets andare now trying to, like, come back
and save it.
And to me, it's like, no, yousaid you're going to do something.
You didn't, and you didn't.
That's right.
Called your bluff.
And now it's like you want totry and kiss and make up, you know,
Sorry.
Yeah.
And.
And one additional thing.
(11:20):
Do it to the best of your ability.
Yep.
That's the other thing.
So, yeah, yeah, just do whatyou're going to say you're going
to do.
And, yeah, sometimes, you knowwhat hits the fan and just be honest
with people and.
Exactly.
Bad news is never pleasant.
But I'd rather have Somebodyknow, bad news sooner rather than
later.
Well, and I, you know, ifsomething goes screwy, okay.
(11:43):
And it's bad news, okay, bring it.
Let's talk, let's work throughit, okay?
If we, if we're on the samepage, we're trying to go the same
direction and something's justhappened that's that screwed everything
up.
There's many ways we can workthrough things, all right, and, and
you know, things happen.
Sometimes you just have todeal with it and, but man, be honest.
(12:04):
So that's the bottom line.
Know who your counterparty is.
That's the other thing.
All right?
The integrity of your county counterparty.
Literally before I jumped onthis call one minute late because
I was actually on the callwith my attorney going through a
loan sale agreement that,let's just say the way the loan sale
agreement is written is if youever have to go back for them for
(12:27):
anything, whether it's a, youknow, a launch that was missed or
screwed up or any type ofdocument, my attorney's like, recognize
you are not going to get itand they're not obligated to give
it to you.
And I'm like, why would I signthis contract?
He's like, that's a business decision.
But based off of how youoperate, I wouldn't execute this.
(12:47):
So.
Okay, so let's talk a littlebit about paper trail conference
that I was, I don't know if Iwas drunk when I agreed to this or
what not to do.
It's been in the back of mymind at times and you know, basically
kind of has formed indifferent circles and stuff.
(13:09):
But you know, a little bitabout, for people listening what
I was my accomplishment orwhat I'm trying to target is I haven't
really seen a conference thatfocuses on the three main aspects
of note investing.
Now I'm a non performing note guy.
That is what I am.
I am not a, you know, seller,finance guy.
Private lending, a little bitin my wheelhouse, but not the, I'll
(13:32):
call it not something that I'mthe expert in do as part of my entire
business process.
And I've seen a lot of peopleover the last year or two jump around
into the different avenues of that.
And I wanted to just bringeveryone together to kind of let
people decide what it isbecause I'm on bigger pockets and
I see people doing, oh, I wantto do this, I want to do that.
And there's not one place youcan go try and talk to people and
(13:55):
learn.
So now that's why it'simportant for me.
I'm curious why it's importantfor you to be a part of this event
and a speaker.
And I know your response isgoing to be, because Chris is awesome
and you just want to be a partof something that I'm a part of,
but outside of that.
(14:15):
Okay, well, I, I.
First of all, I would clearlysay I respect you, Chris, and you've
already.
I've always known you as beinga straight shooter, and you call
BS when BS needs to be called,and sometimes it gets you in trouble,
but that's okay.
I can live with that.
So sometimes a little too much trouble.
(14:36):
But not too often.
I do get sued.
But why it's important to meis I want to be associated with people
who have great integrity, whohave good conferences.
I like the.
I.
I am an educator at heart.
(14:56):
Okay.
I do have a teaching degree.
All right.
But it's now gone way, wayexpired a long time ago, like 50
years ago.
But I still have that at heart.
And I do like being able toteach and help people grow.
And I was also one.
I was a track and field coach also.
(15:17):
I had.
That's another side note.
But I coached Division 1 trackand field for a few years, so.
Kent State University.
Okay.
Okay.
So.
So I guess that's in my bloodto a certain degree.
So I enjoy that.
I want to be associated withgreat people who have great integrity
(15:38):
and run good businesses.
And I, I'm.
I'm sure you'll put on a verygood conference.
I have no question about that.
The one thing you mentionedagain, about the education side is
I know you provide, you know,you host, I think, you know, like
a webinar.
We do, yeah, we do a notetalks with Kyle and J.
We do it one time a month iswhat we do.
(15:58):
It's kind of our give back iswhat it is.
Yep.
And you also, I know, dropnote nuggets, you know, and stuff.
Tidbits.
That's right.
Yep.
No tidbits as well.
Apologize.
But.
And again, for people who arelistening and trying to, again, either
gain more experience in thespace or learn a specialty or skill,
(16:18):
the more people you canconnect with and learn from, the
better off you are.
So, you know Jay well, all hisinformation will be in the show notes.
So, you know, I recommend givehim a.
Give him a follow.
Sure.
Okay.
So without spoiling, you know,your whole session, and, you know,
what's one thing you hopeattendees, you know, will either
feel, learn or thinkdifferently about after hearing you
(16:42):
speak and provide them thisgreat content that you're going to
provide them.
Well, Chris, as you say, weall come from different, different
niches.
You're an NPL guy.
Okay.
I'm a seller finance guy.
Okay.
We've done a bunch ourselves.
We buy.
I'm comfortable in buyingseller finance notes.
(17:05):
I appreciate in helping peopleto improve their quality of their
notes so they don't have totake as big of a discount.
All right, so my goal is Ihope to help people, particularly
house buyers, wholesalers, fixand flippers.
(17:26):
I hope to be able to help themto raise their gain.
Many, many of them do notrealize the value that a no investor
can bring to them.
So I hope to be able to sharewith them.
All right.
How we can come in and helpthem recapitalize, but we can only
help them recapitalize and godo another deal with them, keeping
(17:46):
part of the deal on the backend that they make more money over
the long term if they create aquality note.
So my hope is, is that I canshow them how we can help them to
recapitalize the importance ofhaving a relationship with a note
buyer and, and giving us theopportunity to help them elevate
how they're creating the notesso that they don't have to take nearly
(18:08):
as deep of a discount and helppropel their business forward as
well.
No, it's awesome and I knowpeople get a lot more out of the
session, but no, as a highlevel, that's what people look for.
Honestly.
That'S what we hope to deliver.
And I know Tracy Rui and Iare, we've been talking back and
(18:32):
forth.
She's kind of running the, theseller finance part.
So I don't know what thefinal, how it's going to look, but
I think we're probably justgoing to have a discussion.
So I think we're going to do,I don't know.
So, yeah, yeah, we're tryingto, you know, again, shape it where,
you know, there's discussionsthat people can have that are real
world discussions.
And then we're having someworkshops too, where, you know, going
(18:52):
to ask people, you know, breakopen that notebook and you know,
but put on your thinking capand stick that cell phone, you know,
kind of, you know, in yourpocket because there's going to be
a fire hose of informationgetting thrown at you, especially
for a few of the ones that I'mgoing to be doing.
It'll be good.
It'll be good.
Okay.
Now you've worked with allkinds of investors.
(19:16):
Good, the bad, the ugly, the indifferent.
You Know, in your mind, youknow what makes a great investor,
in your opinion?
Well, first of all, you got todecide whether you want to be an
active investor or whetheryou're going to be a passive investor.
There are two profiles.
They're two totally differenttype of investors and personalities,
(19:40):
etc.
If you're going to be apassive investor in one, want to
leverage our skill sets.
When I say I mean mine, yours,et cetera, okay?
Our skill sets, ourconnections, all right?
Our sources and our knowledge.
That is great, okay?
And if you're busy with yourcareer, you're busy with your profession,
(20:03):
you run a business, you'reretired, you just want to earn a
great income, all right, andget a good return on your money.
We're handling all the heavylifting in that respect, and let
us handle it, okay?
But don't expect the same typeof returns, all right, as if you're
(20:24):
taking all the risk, all right?
That's really important tounderstand that difference.
Now, if you're an activeinvestor and you're wanting to get
in and develop therelationships, all right, it's going
to take some work.
Takes time to developrelationships with people and with
organizations that have thenotes that they know that you're.
(20:47):
You're.
You're real and that you canperform and you're going to do what
you say you're going to do,because that's absolutely the surest
way of slitting your throat inthis business to say, hey, I'm going
to perform.
And then you then, then youback out the last second.
You just, you just kissed yourcredibility goodbye at that point.
So.
But that's a different.
(21:07):
That's a different animal inthat situation, all right?
You can earn the higheryields, the higher returns, all right?
But you got to get knowledge.
You got to get knowledgeablefrom credible sources of people who
are in the trenches is doingit and learning and be patient in
learning that even be willingto mirror and not.
Not do anything but just kindof be a sponge.
(21:30):
I've been through fortunate tobe a chrome at some pretty big tables
and not, you know, just soakup the knowledge, man.
Just soak it up.
And you got to be willing topay your dues along the way to be
able to do that.
So, yeah, yeah, for me, youknow, I define it kind of, you know,
within one word, and I'll use authenticity.
(21:52):
Authenticity.
That's exactly.
Yeah, that's exactly what youjust outlined is figure out what
it is you want to do.
Do you want to be active?
Do you want to be Passive, youknow, don't.
Just because I'm doingsomething or you're doing something,
like what you're doing and I'mdoing are very, very different because.
Yeah, but it works for you.
(22:12):
What you do kind of wouldn'twork for me, and maybe it would,
but I might.
Maybe I'd be bored.
Or you might look at what I doand say, you're nuts.
That would be boring to me.
It's going to be somethingthat you enjoy to do, but don't try
to pretend to be somebody orsomething you are not, because that's.
That's where this whole FOMOcomes into play and kind of roll
(22:33):
into the next question ofwhat's one mistake you see newer
investors make that you tryand help them avoid?
I think there's two.
And I was.
I would say we were a littlebit part of this also.
We just couldn't figure outthe strategy that we wanted to use
what fit us.
It took us.
You know, I like partials.
All right.
(22:54):
But the partial model justdidn't necessarily work for what
we needed to do for.
In our business, for where wewere at.
So we went the hypothecation route.
Okay.
Now, hypothecation may not befor somebody.
Okay.
All right.
So get knowledgeable in enoughknowledge in the different areas
to figure out what fits youand what you want to accomplish.
(23:15):
That's the first thing.
The second thing is newbiesdon't do enough due diligence, period.
On everything.
Who you're buying from, whoyou're learning from, any part of
it.
So here.
So here.
And even the experiencedpeople don't do due diligence sometimes.
And here's a perfect example.
(23:36):
I'll share this.
And this was me the other day.
I saw a video on Instagram byan individual who basically says
a lot of things that you think.
And what I mean by that isthere was a Facebook ad I saw that
had a 45% annual return on investment.
(23:57):
And I just laughed.
I'm like, okay, real estate.
And then I did a Google, andthere's this guy who does TikTok
Instagram, where he takes allthese fund offerings and he basically
deep dives into them and doesresearch on them to basically find
out, yeah, they're scams.
And there was one, forexample, he did on a company back
(24:20):
in 2020 or 2021 that when Istarted my company in 2022, I was
looking up this other companyto kind of see what they did, because
I know if they'd be acompetitor and I'm like, wow, these
people are really shady.
I knew three years ago thatthey were going to be in trouble.
Which now today, of courseunder investigation and all this
stuff.
He knew it before then, but Iposted something about him.
(24:41):
Hey, this guy provides somelike, cool videos and just fun to
entertain.
Someone's like, yeah, did youknow that guy was on American Greed?
And the reason why he knowsall this stuff was because he spent
like 10 years in jail becausehe was like the fraudsters of fr.
But I'm like, well, it takesone to no one.
No one.
That's right.
I didn't do my due diligenceto realize what this guy is.
But, you know, and again,it's, I would never associate myself
(25:02):
with this person.
But he also, you know, youspent 10 years in prison doing, you
know, money fraud within realestate offerings.
So basically it's like, yeah,this guy actually probably does know
what he's doing.
But even goes to show that,you know, no matter what it is in
the newer guys, you know,really struggle with due diligence.
And one of the things that Ilook at sometimes when I'll get a
(25:23):
note accepted and then theperson's like, two days later, like,
okay, I'm ready to fund.
And I'm like, ray of fund.
I'm like, did you check titleor bpo?
And he's like, oh, I wentonline and you know, I did a Zillow
and basically I went on thecounty records and I'm like, okay,
but you know, I'm the typewill tell.
I'm like, hey, if you'rebuying a note, here's what you should
(25:44):
be doing.
But I'm not going to tell youhow to do your business.
Right, Right.
So, okay.
Oh, you've made it through thefirst round of interrogations.
You know, you, your score is a96 out of 100.
I knocked you docked you fourpoints because the last question
(26:05):
I asked for one mistake and ofcourse you gave me two.
Okay, that's a bonus.
That was one and a bonus.
Okay.
Okay, so I'm have to bump youback up.
So I'm 104 now.
Okay, there you go.
So a little lightning round.
And I joke because when I wasputting these things together, I'm
like, you know what?
Describe in one word.
And I'm like, I have never, Ithink ever said one word in my life.
(26:27):
And I'm like, how couldanybody else?
But let's see if we can get there.
So the one word to describethe current market changing.
Yeah, my term would Bevolatile was term I would think of.
We wanted to go into details,but people just, I think, you know,
(26:47):
can understand.
What's one thing you'vechanged your mind about in the last
year?
Now, this can be more than oneword, of course, but.
Well, let's see here.
How to adapt.
I think that's the best thing.
Okay.
You know.
Yeah.
Both on the real estate sideas well as on the note side, there
(27:09):
are different cycles, all right.
In the market.
And you need to be able tounderstand where we're at in the
market cycle right now, andwhere do we anticipate that market
cycle going?
So you want to be planning for going.
You know, here is it.
I love Eddie to death.
(27:30):
Here is an Eddieism.
Okay.
That is apropos.
All right.
You don't swing where theball's at.
You swing where the ball's heading.
Yeah.
All right.
And so where's the ball heading?
All right?
And so you gotta.
You gotta be.
I.
I try to do a better job ofstaying aware of different reports
(27:51):
to know kind of what'shappening in the market and where
it's going.
I.
And anticipate.
Try to anticipate.
And it's never going to be ahundred percent, but you have a feeling
for where we're at in thecycles and where the cycle's going
and what changes may becoming, and then you're prepared,
all right.
Both from a positive side totake advantage of those opportunities
(28:13):
as well as protecting on thedownside that that could be happening
as well.
So I.
I think that I have probablybeen a little bit more aggressive,
particularly in the lastcouple years, than what I was initially
when I was first getting started.
No.
Great advice.
And, you know, I know you haveall your accomplishments in life.
(28:35):
Me to thank for this, but.
You have a little bit in there.
Okay.
If there were to be one personyou would thank for your success,
who would that be?
I cannot name one, literally.
That's the best answer,actually, because I'm sitting here,
like, I couldn't.
Like, you know, I couldn'tname one person that, you know, there's
(28:55):
so many people.
Yeah, there's so many people.
There's.
That I've picked up goldnuggets from.
All right.
Because of their experiences,and I can.
I could put it in and draw upon that.
So it's an input of multiple people.
So I just.
I'm just humble and gratefulthat I have the opportunity to do
(29:17):
this, and I'm.
I'm grateful to be in thesituation that we're at Right now.
And, and I gotta say that's,that's a blessing from Almighty is
awesome from God, for, for me.
Great.
Well, as we wrap up thisepisode of the Paper Trail podcast
in a little get to know yourspeaker with Jay Redding, who will
(29:42):
be one of the speakers at theconference September 18th to 20th
outside in Chandler, Arizona.
Any final thoughts that you'dlike to add or anything in general,
anything on your mind that you like?
You being a therapist now too, huh?
I would just say I.
(30:03):
Wherever you're at in thisnote cycle, maybe, maybe you've just
heard about notes, you knownothing about it.
Okay, come.
Come and learn.
All right.
I like the format, Chris, thatyou're putting together here because
there are so different,different areas of note investing
(30:24):
that you can invest in.
And you know, what you have tobe careful of is that you don't try
to do them all.
Don't get the shiny objectsyndrome as people often get on the
real estate side.
But come and learn and think,okay, what fits my personality, what
fits me, what resources do I have?
All right, what can I, whatcan I build upon?
(30:44):
All right.
And help you determine what'sthe next steps in that respect.
And many of us would behelpful, be willing to help in that
respect.
So that would, that would beall that I would say.
Yeah.
And here's a perfect exampleof that that I'll share just about
me and my portfolio.
And you know, previously inthe last several years, you know,
(31:05):
we'd have a balance ofperforming and non performing loans
in our portfolio and a lot ofperforming may have been non performing
that are re performing or wewould pick and choose some of the
performing loans that we would buy.
And it was pretty easy becausemost of the paper was written between
kind of like 6 and 9%.
So you could put some discounton it and still get a decent return.
(31:26):
But you look at the true, I'llcall it like performing owner occupied
type loans today, that most ofthem are from COVID and they're written
at like 3 or 4% and you can'tget the numbers to work.
No.
So I'm like, okay, what do Ineed to do to again go back to adapt,
(31:47):
which we talked about and makethis shift.
And you know, I was honestly,and I've, you know, it's on record
so I really can't hide from it.
At times I was not the biggestproponent of seller finance.
I'd rather just sell the loan.
But now it's like, oh, thingshave changed.
My business has changed alittle bit.
Okay.
(32:07):
Do I look at seller financingor buying some of those notes?
Do I look at private lending?
Do some of that aspect.
It's like, what path do I go down?
And, you know, getting to beable to speak to people in.
In the space at the same time,where I can go in the same day and
go learn a little bit aboutthis or that and then talk to people
(32:28):
and say, what's the pros andcons with each?
And just, you know, becausemost conferences, again, are either
strict NPL conference, sellerfinance conference, private lending
conference, or maybe a littlebit of mix, but I haven't seen any
bring all three together.
So that's what, you know,that's what I'm trying to accomplish
out of all this.
So I, I would encourage,regardless of where you're at in
(32:51):
your journey to come, becauseyour connections and Chris, I.
I know you know this.
Yeah.
You.
You're going to makeconnections there with vendors.
That's going to help you tomove forward in your business with
other people who might be aperfect match.
I mean, we've made.
We've made contacts that haveelevated our business.
(33:12):
We have made deals with other people.
All right.
At these conferences.
All right.
To be able to strike up the relationship.
And yeah, you may know eachother from emailing back and forth
or talking to a Zoom call orsomething like that, but sitting
down with someone over dinner,over a meal, talking, getting to
know each other, theirpersonality types, all that type
(33:33):
of stuff, that's where youforge relationships and that's where
you grow.
So that's the importance ofbeing at conferences.
And I was at a conferencewhere somebody I've known, I met
them several times.
All of a sudden I was like,oh, do you know this person?
And I'm like, no.
You're like, oh, come with me.
Had me meet this person, andnext thing you know, I just bought
(33:56):
$5 million of loans from that person.
And like, oh, my Lord.
Like, you know, so there's somuch opportunity to network.
And again, today's world ofZoom and everything else.
Yes, you can meet people, butstill, getting face to face is still
the best way to grow your business.
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
(34:17):
Oh, Jay, thanks for hopping onthis episode of the Paper Trail Podcast.
And for people, if you wantmore information about the conference
again, go to the Papertrailconference dot com.
Jay, thanks again.
And I'll actually be seeingyou in a half hour or on our next
one.
(34:38):
Thank you.
Make sure to leave us a likeand review.
Okay, thank you all.
All right, bye.
Bye.
Take care.
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