July 16, 2025 • 44 mins
In this Know Your Speakers episode, Chris Seveney sits down with DJ Olojo—note investor, podcast host, and founder of the Foreclosure Fix. DJ shares how he went from buying rentals in Atlanta after the 2008 crash to building a scalable portfolio focused on second position mortgage notes. He opens up about why he targets a 20% return, how he invests alongside his wife despite having different risk tolerances, and what it really takes to move from education to action. DJ breaks down the mindset, relationships, and creative deal structures that have helped him grow his business—starting with notes as small as $1,000.
DJ is one of the featured speakers at the 2025 Paper Trail Note Conference, where he’ll go even deeper on how to turn $100K into $1M with seconds—sharing real numbers, real deals, and lessons learned along the way.
Join us live in Chandler, AZ, September 18–20. Register now at https://papertrailconference.com/registration/
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(00:42):
Foreign.
Welcome to this episode of thePaper Trail podcast.
Today I was able to interviewDJ Alojo with ASO holdings as well
as author of the Foreclosure Fix.
DJ is a real estate investorwho also primarily invests in second
(01:03):
position mortgage notes and hewill be speaking at the paper trail
conference September 18th to20th in Chandler, Arizona, spring,
specifically on seconds, whichis going to be an interesting topic
because 10 years ago when Igot started in notes and we talk
about this on this episode, asyou get to know dj, seconds were
around, but a lot of peoplewere tailored towards first because
(01:24):
there were some lower pricefirsts that you could buy.
In today's economicenvironment, first position loans
have gotten a lot moreexpensive and for people who got
limited amount of finances toget involved in a space, seconds
are a great avenue.
So DJ talks about that, talksabout his path to growing his business
and also the fact that he'sbusiness partner is his wife, which
(01:47):
is also unique.
And you know, just overallgreat episode of Getting to Know
DJ before you get to meet himat the conference this September.
So hope you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to this episode.
Dj, how are you today?
I'm doing good.
Chris, man, how you doing?
(02:07):
I'm good.
You're all dapper with, youknow, the bow tie and a nice shirt.
I actually in.
So I recorded multipleepisodes today, but I wore a shirt
my wife recently got me andshe was happy because I'm typically,
you know, typical dudecreature of habit, you know, wear
like the same clothes everyday and you're working from home
or whatnot, especially not on video.
(02:28):
And you know, basically she'sfinally like, oh, you finally cut
the tag off that one.
So, you know, get a littlebonus points today.
Hey, man.
Hey.
You look a lot nicer than youusually look.
I know.
Well, that's, that's not hard.
Look nicer than I usually look.
So, you know, even like shavelast night and stuff.
And my hair is not all overthe place, but you know, I can, I
can never look as good as you,nor could I even grow facial hair
(02:52):
like you have.
But for those listening, DJwith the goatee.
But you know, it's all good, man.
Hey, some of us need toovercompensate with the way we look
because, you know, we don't,we don't have as much brain power
as you.
So, you know, I'm just tryingto, I'm just, just trying to get
invited into the room, that's all.
Yeah, brain power.
Talk to my wife about brain power.
(03:13):
See what her opinion iscompared to others.
Well, you know, enough about that.
We are today talking to dj.
We're talking about the get,you know, your speakers for the Paper
Trail conference that's coming up.
I'm excited to have DJ speak,which I've known DJ now for many
years and, you know, one ofthe few note investors who I've actually
(03:33):
met in person several times as well.
And you might laugh at that.
But I'll tell you, it's kindof rare for people to actually meet
me in person because I don'ttravel to tons of conferences and
I'm always out and about.
But so as we get started, dj,you know, let's start with, you know,
tell us a little more aboutyour story.
You know, how did you getinvolved in investing in the first
(03:55):
place?
Yeah, so right after kind oflike the foreclosure crash, I started
investing in residential realestate locally here in Atlanta with
a couple of buddies and, youknow, that blossom and bloomed and
I went from just doing it as ahobby to quitting my full time consulting
job to doing it full time.
(04:16):
And I still am an active realestate investor locally, in addition
to being a builder and a realestate agent.
But I started investing inmortgage notes maybe about six or
seven years ago.
And I had done some, like,small notes where you lend a friend
a small amount of moneysecured by a real estate asset.
(04:37):
But I hadn't done anything,you know, larger.
And I didn't know that you canactually buy institutional notes
and go down that road.
And so about maybe five, sixyears ago, I kind of got involved
in this world called note investing.
And it's been a game changer.
(04:57):
It's changed the way I look atreal estate, both, you know, brick
and mortar real estate and paper.
And it's really helped meincrease my business acumen as it
pertains to the financial world.
And you're also a podcast hostas well?
Oh, yeah, I got, I got apodcast, you know, some other stuff
like that.
But, you know, so what'sinteresting in your story, similar
(05:20):
to mine, which you come from areal estate background or you've
been in real estate, and allof a sudden you find out like, wait,
you can invest ininstitutional and buy institutional
paper?
Like, I was pissed.
Like, how did I not know youcould do this type thing?
And, you know, a lot of peoplestill don't know I've got.
So, you know, we were justtalking before, like as a fraternity
(05:40):
with, you know, 60 somethingguys in a house that, you know, you
know, you know, constantlychurning so when I was there for
four years, you know, there's,you know, hundreds of people and
99% of them have no clue whatwhat I do even exists.
And, you know, probably thesame with a lot of your friends and
family too, man.
100%.
And it's one of those thingswhere it's a game changer because
(06:01):
I personally don't like thevolatility of a stock.
I have a very small amount ofmy net worth in the stock market.
And what I like about realestate is that at least I can see
it, I can feel it, I can touch it.
And what I like about mortgagenotes is that it's backed by something
I can see, I can feel, I can touch.
And for me, that was just agame changer in the way I viewed
(06:23):
my investment journey.
In particular my retirementinvestment journey.
Yep.
So you don't have majority ofyour portfolio in bitcoin?
No, man, I'm sorry.
You know, my wallet is emptyon that side.
I was talking to someoneearlier today.
I'm like, I still just don'tunderstand it.
So I won't invest in itbecause I saw it was like over a
hundred thousand.
I'm like, man, I know somepeople made a lot of money on it
(06:45):
and I feel like I'm left out,but I still, it just, I still don't
get it, you know, so.
Well, I definitely have FOMOon the bitcoin.
I'm not gonna lie.
I know some people, I do too.
You know, they say the nextone's gonna be xrp.
I don't know, so.
Or I think that's what it's called.
But I got FOMO on it at thesame time I have learned from notes
and other real estatetransactions is that, you know, invest
(07:07):
in what you understand.
Because every time I put mymoney and what I don't understand,
I typically lose it.
So I rather keep what's in my safe.
Safe, as they like to say.
Exactly.
Well, outside of the fact thatyou can invest in institutional and
buy institutional notes,what's something about your journey
that most people don't know,but probably should.
(07:29):
On the real estate side or thenote side?
Either one, you know, and itcould be a failure.
Like, you know, maybe aboutyour pivot of why you pivoted to
notes, or you know, somethingabout even your non financial background
and you know, notes, you know,pretty much just anything about the
journey that you find uniquefor your situation.
Yeah, I think one of the bigthings that is maybe different about
(07:51):
my journey is that I investwith My wife.
And that is unique becauseinvesting with a spouse can be just
a challenging process.
You know, it could, it couldlead you to divorce.
So let me just put that out there.
Right.
But no, on a more seriousnote, me and my wife are business
partners on the note side, butthen also more so on the residential
(08:14):
real estate side.
And so we have rental propertyand she handles all of the management
of that prop those properties.
And I handle that, theacquisition and the maintenance.
And so one of the thingsthat's very interesting about working
with your significant other isthat, you know, you, you both should
have a shared vis and you bothare trying to get to the same destination,
hopefully.
But me and my wife arecomplete polar opposites when it
(08:37):
comes to our investment strategies.
My wife is very much, youknow, give me a small, fixed, steady
return, no risk, no nothing crazy.
And I'm very much like, hey,you know, boomer bust.
Like, you know, let's go forthe gusto and stuff like that.
And so oftentimes we are atvery different ends of the spectrum
(08:58):
when we talk about investments.
And so it's been eye openingand humbling experience for, for
both of us to work togetherand to invest together.
And I don't know if I wouldcall us successful, but I would say
we've kind of figured out theway to navigate those waters.
So if you come to theconference and you want some advice
(09:18):
or tips on working with yoursignificant other, definitely pull
me to the side.
And I'd love to talk with youabout what that looks like day to
day.
Is your wife going to come?
She was supposed to be coming,but she had to cancel because unfortunately
our kids have obligations andshe has to be there.
So she is taking one for the team.
She was supposed to come, though.
(09:39):
We're going to see if grannycan step in, but it's not looking
like she's going to be able to.
I would love to meet your wife.
And it's funny you mentionedthat because my wife and I, you know,
we built our primary residenceand you know, we're always involved
in like, all our investments.
But when I met my wife when,you know, when we got married, one
of the first things she waslike is like, are you okay if we
still have separate bankaccounts and just a joint one for
(10:02):
everything and like, as a.
And it's like, absolutely,like, because, you know, that's one
thing.
Like, I've got mine.
So if I go spend somethingand, you know, buy something, it's
like, okay, I can go buy a toy.
She wants to go get her hair,nails done or, you know, or go buy
something.
Like, go ahead.
It's like, as long as we gotthe money that we say we're putting
into the account for our billsand then for our kids, school and
(10:24):
everything else, like theslush fund, it's like, you got yours,
I got mine.
You know, saves a lot ofarguments down the road.
So.
But now everyone has a coreinvestment philosophy.
And it's interesting becauseyou talked about with your wife how
she's a conservative andyou're kind of the, I'll use my own
term, cowboy a little bit,which I know, I know you're not a
(10:47):
cowboy in regards to, youknow, basically, you know, you're
still very methodical.
You know, you're just notrunning around, like, doing, you
know, cowboyish things.
You take on more risk, Ithink, or look at some deals that
might have some higher risk,higher reward.
But you also understand, Ithink, what you're doing and what
the potential risks are.
(11:07):
But, you know, everyone hassome core investment philosophy.
You know, if you coulddescribe yours in one or two sentences,
you know, what is your philosophy?
I would say my core investmentphilosophy Is to make 20% return,
and that's it, you know, andthat sounds kind of crazy and not
(11:28):
realistic, but my goal with myinvestment portfolio Is to make 20%
return.
And when I look at that 20%return, it's not just, you know,
one number of like, hey, youmade 20% return on this investment.
Although I'll take that.
My.
The way I look at it is that20% return is on the entire portfolio
every year.
(11:48):
And that could just be, hey,you increase in appreciation or you
got depreciation because youdidn't have to pay taxes on something
or it appreciated in some way,shape or form, or you, you collected
a coupon.
And so I try to, you know,have an amalgamation where I'm averaging
a 20% increase in my overallinvestment portfolio every year.
(12:13):
Now, I'll be honest, itdoesn't happen every year.
And there have been a coupleyears where I've done better than
that, but the goal is to tryto get 20% return every year.
Now, it's interesting because,like you mentioned, some people will
look at it and say, that can'tbe done.
And, you know, the argumentis, well, yeah, if you invest like
(12:33):
now in X, Y or Z.
But this is where I had adiscussion with somebody the other
day about, like, forcedappreciation in, like, single family
and real estate.
And I'm like, you absolutelycan, in a simple, easy way.
Is, is if you know how tomanage contractors and you act as
a GC, you just forceappreciation by 25% because if it's
going to cost you, you know,GC is going to charge 100,000, you're
(12:55):
going to get it done.
If you act as the manager ofthat for 80,000 and you know, you
just force 20,000appreciation, yes, you spent time
on there, but at the end ofthe day, there's strategies that,
with certain expertise is whatyou have in different aspects of
real, that can allow you toget to that number.
(13:15):
So 100, man.
And I think that, that's,that's the, that's the, that's the
change that I think peoplehave to have in their mindset.
Obviously, if you just want tocollect the coupon, you're not going
to see that type of return.
You're going to be singledigit and if you're safe, it's going
to be mid to low single digit.
And if you want to put in somesweat equity or if you want to spend
some time, then you can reallyjuice your returns.
(13:37):
And I'm at a stage and seasonof my life where I'm trying to run
hard.
So hopefully, you know, in thenext 20 years I'm sitting on a beach
and you know, just respondingto emails and not necessarily working
as hard as I'm working now,but while, while I'm working hard,
I'm trying to make that 20% churn.
Yeah, go be sending me theemails, Chris, through this because
I'll probably be working for you.
(13:58):
So I may just say, hey, Chris,I want to make another investment
in your fund round 1500.
You know, there you go.
So, you know, we just talkedabout kind of your investment philosophy
about the 20%.
You know, to get that philosophy.
Most people have someprinciple that they live by in business
(14:18):
that, you know, guides you,whether you're dealing with borrowers,
other investors, your vendors,business partners.
You know, if you had todescribe one of your core principles,
you know, what, what do youthink it would be?
Yeah, I think, I think thereare two core principles that, that,
that I go by.
Right.
One is, you know, do on othersas you want them to do onto you.
(14:40):
Very straightforward principle there.
And then the next one is trustbut verify.
So those two principles are,are my core two principles.
As I look at note investing,as I look at businesses.
You know, I try to treateverybody the way I want to be treated
and you know, I trust you, butI will verify.
Oh, it's interesting because Irecorded a podcast earlier with A
(15:02):
woman who does due diligencefor private lending.
And she was a former likefederal investigator.
And she got into the businessbecause she had been burned in the
deal.
And when I asked her kind ofone of her, you know, you know, one
of her things, it was, she'slike, you know, I know a lot of people
do don't trust but verify.
(15:22):
I mean, trust but verify.
She's like, I don't trust but verify.
And I'm like, wow.
I'm like, that's pretty cold,you know, and stuff.
And she's like, well, I'vebeen burned.
So, you know, I'm just more ofa, you know, I'm not going to trust
you, but I'll verify it and toearn your trust.
So I'm like, interesting, youknow, so cool.
(15:43):
Okay, so you were or you aregoing to be speaking at the Paper
Trail conference.
You know, we put thisconference on and we were joking
offline like I've got nothingbetter to do.
So Chris, just go start a conference.
And you know, one of thethings that I focused on with this
conference was to bringtogether different groups of people
(16:07):
within the note space.
From private lending to sellerfinance, to performing to non performing
notes.
Because I haven't seen aconference where all of them get
together.
Because I know people like tolearn about other aspects and also
hear other stories from peoplebecause that's where the relationships
get built, you know, for you,you know, speaking and coming to
(16:29):
a conference, you know, why,you know, what's the importance for
you to be a part of the event, man.
So I think that anytime youcan get in the room with like minded
individuals, you are able toincrease not only your IQ but also
your net worth.
Right?
And so anytime I have gottenin rooms with people who are trying
(16:50):
to do what I'm doing or peoplewho are way ahead of me in my journey,
it always leads to moredollars in my bank account.
And so for me, the reason I'mexcited to go is because I think
it's going to help me not justmake 20, it's going to help me make
maybe 25 or 30%, you know, inthis next coming year.
In addition to that, again,it's that rule of if you're around
(17:12):
other people who are going inthe direction you're going to go,
you know, you may not getthere as fast, but they're going
to pull you in that direction.
And so just being in theseconferences and being in these rooms
and having theseconversations, sometimes the light
bulb goes off you and itreally can Be a game changer and
your, you know, not onlyfinancial journey, but also in your
own personal journey.
And the last thing is that,you know, a lot of my friends are
(17:35):
coming.
You know, I consider Chris tobe a friend.
And we don't get to hang outand chop it up all the time.
But, you know, you gottabelieve at these conferences we're
gonna, you know, have a goodtime, share some stories, share some
war stories and some battlescars and just connect with other
people.
And so that's the other partI'm looking forward to.
And it's funny you mentionedthat about like, you know, growing
your net worth.
And I tell people a story andI've said it a thousand times now.
(17:58):
Four years ago, I was, youknow, you know, working still on
a W2.
Then I did a conference thatmy speaking engagement was how to
lose money in note investing.
And somebody saw that and waslike, wow, I want to get to know
that person.
And that person essentiallystalked me for several months until
(18:19):
Shantae.
You know, Shantae, Shanticalls me one day, is like, will you
freaking call this woman?
She says she sent you likethree LinkedIn messages, a LinkedIn
voice message.
And she, you know, wants toconnect with you.
And she's like really sharpand stuff.
And, you know, fast forward to today.
That person, you know, is mynumber one employee.
They're my business partner.
And, you know, I was managinga few million in funds to today,
(18:43):
you know, I've got eightemployees and we've got over $40
million raised in our fundbecause of, you know, this meeting,
you know, a lot of it meetingwith this person, Lauren, because
I'm not a salesperson.
I'm not investor relations or money.
I'm a.
I know how to find and buydeal type person.
And I needed that otherperson, you know, my called Batman,
(19:07):
Robin or whatever you want tocall it, you know, duo to feed off
of something that is differentfrom you.
And, you know, I wouldn't bewhere I was today without, you know,
speaking at that conferenceor, you know, more networking and
finding people to figure outhow to grow a business.
So without spoiling yoursession, what's one thing you hope
(19:32):
attendees can learn or thinkdifferently about Note investing
after hearing you speak, Chris.
And you got to give theaudience a salacious kind of title.
So that way they just sign upfor your session.
So, you know, my session isgoing to focus on how to turn a hundred
thousand dollars into amillion dollars in 10 years.
What you think about that?
(19:53):
I like that.
I was waiting for if you wereto said six months or a year, I would
have basically called you outand said that's now I gotta edit.
Which I have seen people, youknow, see that and so forth.
But you know, interesting.
I mean you're going to talk,you know, about seconds and you know,
(20:14):
it's a space that it's kindof, I don't know why it's so controversial,
but it feels like there's alot of controversy in seconds in
the space.
And it's, you know, peopleeither like love it or hate it.
And you know, to me it's, youknow, again, it's another avenue
to grow a business.
So I'm just curious somefeedback on that.
(20:34):
Yeah, man.
So I am in the second space.
You know, I love seconds andthe way I look at seconds is just,
you know, how do you turnsmall dollars into big returns?
And you know, I was jokingabout the title but if you do the
math, if you can grow your$100,000 at 23% over 10 years, it'll
be a million bucks.
And so at the end of the daythe reality is that you can do that.
(20:57):
And I am currently doing thatwith my seconds portfolio.
And so ultimately I'm excitedto tell the audience one more about
seconds to how they differthan those first mortgages and things
like that.
And then the opportunitythat's out there with seconds and
the beauty of it for me islike, I don't have a class, I don't
have a toolkit that I'm tryingto sell you.
(21:17):
I don't have anything.
I'm just going to tell you myown experience and let you kind of
figure out what works best foryour own personal investment strategy
and excited to kind of be apart of this all star group you're
putting together.
And the only thing I got foryou is a book and if you come to
the session you may get a freecopy of it.
So I, I don't, I don't gotmore cars than that, Chris.
(21:38):
So what's interesting aboutseconds too is over the last 24 months,
you know, there hasn't been ahuge increase in invent.
There hasn't been a lot ofinventory in the second space.
And from that I know peoplewere involved, started to, you know,
shift away to other venturesand same thing with non performing
(22:01):
first as well.
But when you look at and I'mtype of person who I think I'm pretty
good at like seeing thefuture, predicting or just part of
me is just like common senseto some of this stuff but as note
investors, we get to see a lotof, I'll say, like the prequel to
the movies, because we seethings in regards to people's loans
(22:23):
that isn't being reported orlike what's hit.
Real estate's a slow moving space.
So what happens today or whatwe see might not actually impact
things for six months or ayear, but the number of people who
got lines of credit at verylow rates or adjustable rates during
COVID is mind blowing and offthe charts.
(22:47):
And as the interest rates haverisen, everything's gotten a lot
more expensive.
Taxes and insurance and peoplego back to racking up a lot of those
credit cards that they paidoff with these lines of credit.
I think, you know, and it'snot going to be tomorrow, but within
next 24 months you're going tostart to see a consistent supply
(23:09):
of seconds in the space.
Would you agree with that?
I do agree 100% and I like thesecond space because I think it positions
you very well to thinkcreatively about opportunities.
So if nothing else, whatbenefits investing in seconds has
done for me is that it's givenme the mindset of how do I try to
(23:31):
make a deal work that on facevalue may not look like a good deal.
And so when I think about yourspecific scenario, you have it with
homeowners, but then you alsohave with investors because you know,
you do a lot of stuff with,you know, DSER stuff and investment
loans.
And there are a lot ofinvestors out there who are in predicaments
now where they may not haveproperties that have enough to kind
(23:55):
of service that that firstmortgage or, you know, the loan to
value may be looking a littlebit sketchy as, as things change.
And so it creates anotheropportunity, as I think about some
of the other speakers youhave, not to just go buy seconds
that are non performing, butmaybe also to originate seconds as
you think about some of theother panels and speakers that are
going to be talking about.
And so the seconds mindset isnot just about, oh, how do I buy
(24:19):
an npl, a non performing loanand then make it reperform, but it's
also, you know, are seconds abetter position for me to be in?
Can I charge a higher interestrate because I'm in second position
behind the first on aninvestment property and all these
other things.
Can I take a shorter loan termwhereas the first mortgage may have
a 30 year AM I'm only doing a5 year note with the balloon.
(24:39):
So does that protect me in thelong run?
Because my investment timehorizon on that is shorter.
You know, all these differentthoughts that you can have when you're
dealing with seconds thatmaybe when you're dealing with the
traditional first, youwouldn't have to think about.
No.
And it's interesting becauselike you said, there's seconds.
And then at the conferencewe've got like private lending and
some of these other things.
But I've known people who've done.
(25:00):
And here's an interesting situation.
It's like, okay, where doesthis fit the box?
Somebody's owned an investmentproperty for a long time.
They got a rate at 3% on it,that they've owned it for eight years.
It's a $300,000 property.
I'm sorry, they have a$300,000 first.
The property is worth 800,000.
And you know, there's, youknow, they need to put a hundred
(25:20):
thousand in there because theywant to jack up the rent.
And you know, would you givethem a second?
That might be an investor loanor private lending, but there's situations
where, hey, look, you might beable to get a 15%, you know, write
that for a 24 month loan at15% interest only, and you're still
at 50% loan to value.
Now that in some instancesmight be safer than a first that
(25:44):
somebody did seller financingon, which we have a lot of topics
on that, or a First that's at70% LTV.
There's so many differentoptions and strategies and things
to say.
You just can't pick one andsay, like, I don't do a lot of seconds,
but I can't say, oh, secondsare bad.
There's situations where asecond in some seconds are far better
(26:05):
than first, you know, so it'sreally creating that situation that
I know you're excellent at doing.
So you hit the nail on the head.
And that's the, that's the bigthing around the second mortgage
is it's, it's another product,another arrow in your quiver, another
tool in your tool belt for youto be able to use and grow your wealth.
(26:26):
Now, you've worked with, youknow, all kinds of investors, you
know, besides just using thetypical answer everyone gives and
say, just be like, chris, nowwhat makes a great investor, in your
opinion?
I'm sorry.
I knew, I knew I was gonnathrow you for this one.
So for people who don't,again, DJ and I go back, you know,
(26:48):
many years and we alwaysbanter back and forth with each other.
So it's, I had to throw thatone out at you.
Well, you need, you need alittle Bit of.
You take a little bit of witfrom Chris, you know, a little bit
of style from DJ and you know,the brains of multiple attorneys,
and you mix it all together.
I think the big thing that aninvestor has to have is.
(27:11):
Is I'm trying to figure out aword that won't get bleeped out.
So is some gumption and someability to take a risk, because I
know a lot of people.
And Chris, you probably know alot of people who you have seen at
conferences, the few you goto, or you have, you know, seen on
different conference calls ormasterminds you may be in, who, you
know, have been studying andthinking about investing in a note
(27:33):
for, like the last, you know,10 years.
And you ask them, how manynotes have they bought?
And they'll say, oh, I got one.
And it's not because of lackof resources.
Right.
So I'm not, you know, saying,hey, if you don't have the money
and you're sitting on thesidelines, educating yourself is
a bad idea.
But a lot of these people havethe resources.
They just are scared to make a commitment.
They're scared to actuallypull the trigger.
(27:54):
And I think you have to besmart enough and wise enough and
bold enough to be able to say,I'm going to allocate a certain amount
of money to this type ofinvestment and be able to be okay
if you lose that money.
And so I think that that's thebig thing a good note investor has
to have is that ability totake the risk and live with the outcome.
(28:18):
Yep.
And it's interesting because Iknow of an investor who started right
around the same time I did.
And this person attends, Iwould say, at least a conference
every other month.
And I believe they've aboutone note in that time.
And I'm.
You know, one time they calledme up and I got mad at them because
(28:42):
I'm like, will you stop goingto conferences and go buy a damn
asset?
Like, stop, stop.
Just go buy something.
And the issue is, you know, there.
And this is one of the thingsthat I think people see.
And, you know, it's a conference.
You'll hear a lot ofconversations about this too.
People are looking for theperfect asset.
(29:02):
And what I mean by that is, Iwant the cleanest performing loan
that's been paying for fiveyears, but I also want to have like
20% EL to loan to value.
And I want to get it at a 13 yield.
And it's like, well, itdoesn't work that way.
You could buy it maybe at 9 or10 and still get above average, you
(29:22):
know, returns from the marketat like 8.
But you're not going to getlike some, you know, somebody's not
going to sell it to you at 13and 14.
And in the same token, they'relike, oh, I got this one under agreement.
And like, I got it for a gooddiscount, but then I do all the work
and it's like, well, it'smissing this or that and I'd have
to spend work or time to goget that document.
And, you know, they missed apayment last year and, you know,
(29:42):
whatnot and so forth.
I'm like, yeah, but that's whyyou're probably buying it at that.
You know, it's like anything,you know, there's a risk involved
and the more hair on theasset, the more discount there will
be.
Meaning hair, meaning moreissues potentially with it.
And sometimes people are justalways waiting for that perfect situation.
And I always use a term, youknow, there's the window shoppers
(30:04):
who are people who just go toconference and look at everyone who's
actually doing stuff andbasically like, hey, I'm on the other
side.
Just, you know, good to see you.
And then there's the actual doers.
So, no, that's.
I agree.
Because the only way you getbetter is by doing.
I use the golf analogy.
You can read every single bookin the world on how to hit a golf
ball, but I can guarantee youthat the most advancement you'll
(30:27):
ever make on a golf course isby either being at the driving range
or at the tee box.
So 100 and that's enough.
That's another reason I loveseconds, right?
I have bought.
I'm not in the hundreds yet,but I bought many.
I think I'm past 70 notes or whatever.
Most have been seconds.
(30:48):
And the reason I've been ableto do that is not because I have
a lot of money, right?
So, you know, I don't throwthat number out there saying like,
oh, man, you know, if you dothe math, it's not as much money
as Chris probably.
So you know what I mean?
But the reason I can isbecause you can buy small balance
notes that are second mortgages.
And so I bought notes for aslow as a thousand bucks, all the
(31:08):
way up to, you know, hundredsof thousands of dollars.
But at the end of the day,that ability to have the reps has
allowed me to be able to feelmore comfortable when I go spend,
you know, 25 or 30 or 50 or$60,000 on a note to feel more comfortable
to say okay, I'm going to getmy money back.
And I think that that's thebig thing that I love about seconds,
(31:29):
is that you can have more repsand have more opportunities to learn
and make mistakes.
And I'll be honest with you,I've made a ton of them, and I continue
to make them.
I just bought a note the otherday, and then the person who I bought
it from sent me a letter thatsays, hey, just so you know, we just
got this in the mail.
And it was basically the taxoffice letting them know that the
taxes were sold and that, youknow, if I don't.
(31:50):
If I don't write a big check,we're not getting it back.
You know what I mean?
So we still make the mistakes.
But it's one of those thingswhere, you know, it's.
You're always learning, butwithout these reps, you want to be
in that position where you can.
Yeah.
And somebody asked me theother day, which was a great question,
you know, if you started outtoday, what would you do differently?
And I told them I wouldstruggle a lot more today than I
(32:12):
did seven years ago or 10years ago or eight or.
I don't even know now.
But the reason I say that isbecause back in, like, 2016, when
I started, you could buycontract for deeds and these other.
First for 5, 10, 15, 20,000,which today you can't.
So to get started.
And I was doing that, whichagain, I was.
(32:32):
It was the.
The bulk factor of.
Buy some loans, work them out,and just learn through the experience
of buying, you know, loanafter loan after loan.
And they're affordable, so youcould recycle them.
Today, you can't do that withfirst, but you can still do that
with seconds, which is unique.
So it's a differentopportunity that previously people
who were considering One thingnow 10 years ago, might want if,
(32:54):
you know, with lesser money,get started in a different strategy.
But so what's one mistake thatyou see newer investors make that
you try to help them avoid?
Yeah, I think one of the bigmistakes I see newer investors make
is trying to follow too manydifferent people in the industry.
(33:14):
I think that, you know, I'veseen people who are part of, like,
three different mastermindsand, you know, take it with a grain
of salt.
I'm a part of a couplemasterminds myself.
So, like, I'm not.
I'm not knocking masterminds.
I think they're great.
But again, it goes back to that.
You got to find somebody whoyou want to learn from, and then
Learn from them and buy assets.
The biggest thing you can dois buy assets.
So if you can go buy assets,it changes your, your trajectory
(33:38):
in the business.
Because if I spend two orthree years learning, yeah, it's
important to sharpen your,your, your sword, you know, or sharpen
your ax before you cut downthe tree.
I agree.
100 but this is notes.
You don't have to sharpen youraxe for four or five years.
Right.
You know, you can sharpen yourax for, you know, six months and
continue to sharpen it, youknow, as you're buying additional
notes.
And so learning from too manypeople and being a part of too many
(34:01):
masterminds versus going andgo buy a note or create a note or,
you know, focus in and dosomething, that's the biggest pitfall
I see people fall into.
The other thing I see ispeople not only in three different
groups, but they're on threedifferent things.
You know, one's in a groupdoing this, one's a group doing that.
And they have too much whereit's like, okay, focus on one thing.
Because when you focus onmultiple things, you end up doing
(34:23):
nothing.
And I had a conversation withsomebody earlier today similar, like
they're trying to find moresellers, more sellers, more sellers.
And I told them, like, look, Ialready gave you a name of five sellers
and you told me how much moneyyou have.
Focus on them.
Like, you don't need 20sellers if you got a hundred thousand
dollars, invest, find, focuson that one.
(34:46):
If you.
Trust me, if you buy a deal orseveral deals with a seller and you
know, go through a duediligence close and do it in an efficient
manner over time, thatperson's going to remember you because
it's small space.
And then, you know, then youroll that one up to another one.
You come up say, hey, great, Igot that deal, it's done.
You got something else for me.
(35:07):
All of a sudden you get like2, 3, 4 deals from one person.
You know, it snowballs.
I today to this date, again, Ihave lost track how many notes I
bought.
But the majority of the loanswe buy, and it shifted over the years,
used to be one seller webought a lot from, they're no longer
around and stuff.
But you know, and it shifts consistently.
(35:29):
But in any given point intime, it's typically three people.
You know, I could name 25sellers right off the top of my tongue
who sell loans.
But primarily I typically buyfrom like three.
Now, it doesn't mean I don'tbuy from the others.
It's one offs in here.
But it's primarily from thesame people who I've built relationships
over the last decade with.
Yeah, no, and when I thinkabout my portfolio, you know, majority
(35:52):
comes from one seller andthen, you know, I got about four
others that I bought from.
You know what I mean?
And so it's one of thosesituations where again, if you get
in, you get in a good space.
And another thing about that,you know, as you talk about sellers,
is there's a rapport that's built.
Right?
So if for some reason a dealdoesn't work out, you know, in your
favor, they'll, they'llremember you on the other one.
(36:12):
Like, you know, they, theywon't, they won't fade you or, or,
or they'll help you out onanother one.
And that's the, again, it'sthe relationship piece.
Like, I know that if I buy anote from Chris and it goes sideways
for, you know, somethingthat's out of his control, well,
I know in the future he'lllook out for me.
Right.
And, and that's just therelationships you build.
And that's just the way it works.
Works in any business, butspecifically in this small space.
(36:35):
Yep.
100 agree.
Okay, as we wrap up thisepisode, we're gonna do a little
bit of lightning, round and soforth, and you know, ask you a few
questions as we wrap up.
What's one word you would useto describe the current market?
Buyer beware.
Oh, I like that.
It's actually two words, butI'll let you get away with it.
(36:55):
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
You know, it's, you know, andI mentioned this in elsewhere too.
I've been getting trolled alittle bit on social media because
I kind of made that commentwhere somebody made a comment, oh,
properties are still sellingwell over asking price in certain
markets.
And I'm like, okay, but 49 outof 50 markets are declining.
(37:16):
In certain markets, you'reseeing huge drops and persons like
calling me out and stuff andlike, show it to me.
And I actually took a.
Because there's all publicnotice, two properties are nearing
foreclosure and a brand newneighborhood of 14 homes.
The house, two of them are inforeclosure and they're in foreclosure
(37:41):
for call around a million to amillion one where all the other homes
are selling for 1.5.
Okay.
And I was using an example isthese went to foreclosure.
Actually they just finishedone of them finished foreclosure.
The other one's like,Foreclosure in, like, two weeks.
And I said, this one just sold it.
Foreclosure auction for like 1million 50.
(38:02):
The other one's coming up.
All the other houses areselling for 1.4, 1.5, but only, like,
four of the 14, like, they'restill being built have sold.
And I use the example of whatis going to happen when somebody
goes to buy a house for 1.4million and the last two sales in
that neighborhood are REOs fora million dollars.
Yep.
Like, the appraisals are goingto come in low.
(38:22):
It's going to drop the prices,and everything's going to.
You go to southwest Florida,Cape Coral, Port Charlotte, that
area.
People are building homes.
Builders are walking away fromhomes because they thought they'd
be worth a half a million dollars.
When they're done constructingthem, they're in the three worth,
you know, 300 grand, 350 now, 375.
I mean, those are.
It's 20% decline.
(38:42):
That's a big number.
So cool.
Same thing may happen in thatsubdivision you're talking about,
because they're not donebuilding the houses.
They're gonna be like, it'snot worth it.
Let's take our loss now.
Yep.
So what's one thing you'vechanged your mind about in the last
year?
(39:03):
Avocado toast.
Oh, are you a fan?
I am now.
Okay.
Your bread has to be the righttexture, but I had it before.
And slightly brown.
Right.
Lightly brown.
Okay.
Lightly brown.
Or maybe even a little bitmore toasted.
But I had it a couple timesand the bread was soggy.
It was like, ah, I'm not afan, but I've had it recently.
(39:26):
And I was like, okay.
With the right.
With the right toast on thebread, you know, a nice, not good
lunch or breakfast.
It's interesting because mywife and daughter.
Big avocado toast.
Like, if we go out forbreakfast and stuff, and I've never
been, but I try, like, youknow, those.
My daughter, who's, you know,you know, small and can never like,
(39:46):
you know, breakfast placesgive you, like, the big thing.
And she's like, yeah, eatingall that.
So one time, like, let me trysome of it.
And I was tasting.
I'm like, I'm not usually abig avocado person.
Like, man, it's actuallypretty good.
So.
Yeah.
Cool.
And last question again,besides me, because I just don't
(40:06):
jump in a conclusion now.
Who's a person you'd like tothank for your success?
I'll probably say my wife.
She'll never listen to this podcast.
So, you know, I was just gonna.
Say you're probably gonna nameyour wife just to be in the good
graces business with her.
So that's pretty impressive.
She'll never listen.
But, you know, I think likeanything else, the beauty of marriage
in general is that, you know,it keeps you humble.
(40:30):
And especially when you'resomebody like me who, who thinks
you have it all figured outand you're willing to, you know,
go in guns a blazing.
She is definitely the personwho's like, no, you're wrong.
And she'll remind you of howmany times you've been wrong and
she keeps a very good recordof it.
And so I think that that'shelpful for somebody who, who has
a little bit of an ego.
(40:51):
And it's also helpful to kindof have her perspective because,
you know, opposites do attractin some way, shape or form.
But she's helped me make a lotmore wise decisions where I would
go in guns a blazing.
And so she's definitely a big,a big contributor to my success.
Yeah.
And it's interesting foranybody who has, you know, a spouse
(41:12):
or a partner out there andyou're kind of, you know, an entrepreneur
in the business, don'tunderestimate how powerful that partner
can be.
And a lot of times you'relike, I don't want to put that upon
them and stuff.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I've just like ran situations
by my wife, who is a thousandtimes smarter than me anyways.
But, but just, you know,having that conversation with her
(41:34):
or just sometimes if you haveeven just to calm you down a little
bit or you know, just, youknow, sometimes because I'm type
person sometimes who Iactually have a 10 second delay on
my send because sometimes Iget a little hot or fired up a little
bit, but you know, justhearing another opinion.
But also if it's not yourbusiness partner, just somebody who's
not as involved becausesometimes a situation you get so
(41:57):
involved in it, you can't seethe forest from the trees.
And you know, having that, youknow, with you, the tag team with
you and your wife, you know,that's actually an awesome partnership.
And you know, congratulationsfor, you know, keeping that and being
successful in it.
No, thank you.
And again, a lot of successjust comes from the fact that she's
(42:19):
a lot smarter than me, butlets me take a lot of credit.
So, you know, I mean, it'llbe, it'll be, it'll be her idea.
But I Like, yeah, you knowwhen I told you that, she's like,
yeah, I told you that fiveyears ago.
But yeah, it's your idea.
You know what I mean?
So.
But no, like you, man, I thinkwe both have, you know what, out
kicked our coverage as itcomes to our wives.
So, you know, we're salesmen.
That's what we do.
And I'm grateful for it.
(42:40):
Well, dj, thanks for coming on today.
Always a pleasure.
You know, getting a talk shopwith you.
If people want to learn moreabout you, reach out to you, what's
the best way and tell, youknow, what book, what's the name
of the book and podcast thatthey can listen to?
You know, gotta sell yourselfa little bit now.
Yeah.
So I am DJ Alojo on all socials.
(43:02):
My email is dj@aso holdings.com.
my book is called theForeclosure Fix.
12 Proven Steps to beat thebank escape foreclosure and turn
your property into aprofitable asset.
And if you want to reach outto me, you want to see me, you want
to talk to me, you got to cometo the Paper Trail conference.
Because if you're there, we'llhave conversations over coffee, over
(43:22):
lunch, over libations, andwe'll just have a really good time.
And I would love to see you inthe place.
I plan to be there, bow tieand all.
So make sure you get your ticket.
I know that there is some,some, some promo codes if you are
one of the first folks to kindof sign up, and not first, but sign
up before a certain date.
So I'll let Chris tell youabout how to do all that, but definitely
(43:45):
I would love to see you thereand look forward to meeting you in
person.
Yep.
So you can just go topapertrail conference.com It's September
18th to 20th in Chandler, Arizona.
It is multiple days ofinvesting discussions, workshop sessions,
networking, and you know, alsolast day.
(44:06):
I know a lot of people like totry and bail early.
So we are going to spend a daytalking AI and I've already got my
person creating some crazystuff that try and blow some people's
minds with just, you know,where the business could also be
headed.
So thanks for listening tothis episode and as always, continue
to follow that paper trail.
(44:26):
Thank you all.
Foreign.
Welcome to this episode of thePaper Trail podcast.
Today I was able to interviewDJ Alojo with ASO holdings as well
as author of the Foreclosure Fix.
DJ is a real estate investorwho also primarily invests in second
(01:03):
position mortgage notes and hewill be speaking at the paper trail
conference September 18th to20th in Chandler, Arizona, spring,
specifically on seconds, whichis going to be an interesting topic
because 10 years ago when Igot started in notes and we talk
about this on this episode, asyou get to know dj, seconds were
around, but a lot of peoplewere tailored towards first because
(01:24):
there were some lower pricefirsts that you could buy.
In today's economicenvironment, first position loans
have gotten a lot moreexpensive and for people who got
limited amount of finances toget involved in a space, seconds
are a great avenue.
So DJ talks about that, talksabout his path to growing his business
and also the fact that he'sbusiness partner is his wife, which
(01:47):
is also unique.
And you know, just overallgreat episode of Getting to Know
DJ before you get to meet himat the conference this September.
So hope you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to this episode.
Dj, how are you today?
I'm doing good.
Chris, man, how you doing?
(02:07):
I'm good.
You're all dapper with, youknow, the bow tie and a nice shirt.
I actually in.
So I recorded multipleepisodes today, but I wore a shirt
my wife recently got me andshe was happy because I'm typically,
you know, typical dudecreature of habit, you know, wear
like the same clothes everyday and you're working from home
or whatnot, especially not on video.
(02:28):
And you know, basically she'sfinally like, oh, you finally cut
the tag off that one.
So, you know, get a littlebonus points today.
Hey, man.
Hey.
You look a lot nicer than youusually look.
I know.
Well, that's, that's not hard.
Look nicer than I usually look.
So, you know, even like shavelast night and stuff.
And my hair is not all overthe place, but you know, I can, I
can never look as good as you,nor could I even grow facial hair
(02:52):
like you have.
But for those listening, DJwith the goatee.
But you know, it's all good, man.
Hey, some of us need toovercompensate with the way we look
because, you know, we don't,we don't have as much brain power
as you.
So, you know, I'm just tryingto, I'm just, just trying to get
invited into the room, that's all.
Yeah, brain power.
Talk to my wife about brain power.
(03:13):
See what her opinion iscompared to others.
Well, you know, enough about that.
We are today talking to dj.
We're talking about the get,you know, your speakers for the Paper
Trail conference that's coming up.
I'm excited to have DJ speak,which I've known DJ now for many
years and, you know, one ofthe few note investors who I've actually
(03:33):
met in person several times as well.
And you might laugh at that.
But I'll tell you, it's kindof rare for people to actually meet
me in person because I don'ttravel to tons of conferences and
I'm always out and about.
But so as we get started, dj,you know, let's start with, you know,
tell us a little more aboutyour story.
You know, how did you getinvolved in investing in the first
(03:55):
place?
Yeah, so right after kind oflike the foreclosure crash, I started
investing in residential realestate locally here in Atlanta with
a couple of buddies and, youknow, that blossom and bloomed and
I went from just doing it as ahobby to quitting my full time consulting
job to doing it full time.
(04:16):
And I still am an active realestate investor locally, in addition
to being a builder and a realestate agent.
But I started investing inmortgage notes maybe about six or
seven years ago.
And I had done some, like,small notes where you lend a friend
a small amount of moneysecured by a real estate asset.
(04:37):
But I hadn't done anything,you know, larger.
And I didn't know that you canactually buy institutional notes
and go down that road.
And so about maybe five, sixyears ago, I kind of got involved
in this world called note investing.
And it's been a game changer.
(04:57):
It's changed the way I look atreal estate, both, you know, brick
and mortar real estate and paper.
And it's really helped meincrease my business acumen as it
pertains to the financial world.
And you're also a podcast hostas well?
Oh, yeah, I got, I got apodcast, you know, some other stuff
like that.
But, you know, so what'sinteresting in your story, similar
(05:20):
to mine, which you come from areal estate background or you've
been in real estate, and allof a sudden you find out like, wait,
you can invest ininstitutional and buy institutional
paper?
Like, I was pissed.
Like, how did I not know youcould do this type thing?
And, you know, a lot of peoplestill don't know I've got.
So, you know, we were justtalking before, like as a fraternity
(05:40):
with, you know, 60 somethingguys in a house that, you know, you
know, you know, constantlychurning so when I was there for
four years, you know, there's,you know, hundreds of people and
99% of them have no clue whatwhat I do even exists.
And, you know, probably thesame with a lot of your friends and
family too, man.
100%.
And it's one of those thingswhere it's a game changer because
(06:01):
I personally don't like thevolatility of a stock.
I have a very small amount ofmy net worth in the stock market.
And what I like about realestate is that at least I can see
it, I can feel it, I can touch it.
And what I like about mortgagenotes is that it's backed by something
I can see, I can feel, I can touch.
And for me, that was just agame changer in the way I viewed
(06:23):
my investment journey.
In particular my retirementinvestment journey.
Yep.
So you don't have majority ofyour portfolio in bitcoin?
No, man, I'm sorry.
You know, my wallet is emptyon that side.
I was talking to someoneearlier today.
I'm like, I still just don'tunderstand it.
So I won't invest in itbecause I saw it was like over a
hundred thousand.
I'm like, man, I know somepeople made a lot of money on it
(06:45):
and I feel like I'm left out,but I still, it just, I still don't
get it, you know, so.
Well, I definitely have FOMOon the bitcoin.
I'm not gonna lie.
I know some people, I do too.
You know, they say the nextone's gonna be xrp.
I don't know, so.
Or I think that's what it's called.
But I got FOMO on it at thesame time I have learned from notes
and other real estatetransactions is that, you know, invest
(07:07):
in what you understand.
Because every time I put mymoney and what I don't understand,
I typically lose it.
So I rather keep what's in my safe.
Safe, as they like to say.
Exactly.
Well, outside of the fact thatyou can invest in institutional and
buy institutional notes,what's something about your journey
that most people don't know,but probably should.
(07:29):
On the real estate side or thenote side?
Either one, you know, and itcould be a failure.
Like, you know, maybe aboutyour pivot of why you pivoted to
notes, or you know, somethingabout even your non financial background
and you know, notes, you know,pretty much just anything about the
journey that you find uniquefor your situation.
Yeah, I think one of the bigthings that is maybe different about
(07:51):
my journey is that I investwith My wife.
And that is unique becauseinvesting with a spouse can be just
a challenging process.
You know, it could, it couldlead you to divorce.
So let me just put that out there.
Right.
But no, on a more seriousnote, me and my wife are business
partners on the note side, butthen also more so on the residential
(08:14):
real estate side.
And so we have rental propertyand she handles all of the management
of that prop those properties.
And I handle that, theacquisition and the maintenance.
And so one of the thingsthat's very interesting about working
with your significant other isthat, you know, you, you both should
have a shared vis and you bothare trying to get to the same destination,
hopefully.
But me and my wife arecomplete polar opposites when it
(08:37):
comes to our investment strategies.
My wife is very much, youknow, give me a small, fixed, steady
return, no risk, no nothing crazy.
And I'm very much like, hey,you know, boomer bust.
Like, you know, let's go forthe gusto and stuff like that.
And so oftentimes we are atvery different ends of the spectrum
(08:58):
when we talk about investments.
And so it's been eye openingand humbling experience for, for
both of us to work togetherand to invest together.
And I don't know if I wouldcall us successful, but I would say
we've kind of figured out theway to navigate those waters.
So if you come to theconference and you want some advice
(09:18):
or tips on working with yoursignificant other, definitely pull
me to the side.
And I'd love to talk with youabout what that looks like day to
day.
Is your wife going to come?
She was supposed to be coming,but she had to cancel because unfortunately
our kids have obligations andshe has to be there.
So she is taking one for the team.
She was supposed to come, though.
(09:39):
We're going to see if grannycan step in, but it's not looking
like she's going to be able to.
I would love to meet your wife.
And it's funny you mentionedthat because my wife and I, you know,
we built our primary residenceand you know, we're always involved
in like, all our investments.
But when I met my wife when,you know, when we got married, one
of the first things she waslike is like, are you okay if we
still have separate bankaccounts and just a joint one for
(10:02):
everything and like, as a.
And it's like, absolutely,like, because, you know, that's one
thing.
Like, I've got mine.
So if I go spend somethingand, you know, buy something, it's
like, okay, I can go buy a toy.
She wants to go get her hair,nails done or, you know, or go buy
something.
Like, go ahead.
It's like, as long as we gotthe money that we say we're putting
into the account for our billsand then for our kids, school and
(10:24):
everything else, like theslush fund, it's like, you got yours,
I got mine.
You know, saves a lot ofarguments down the road.
So.
But now everyone has a coreinvestment philosophy.
And it's interesting becauseyou talked about with your wife how
she's a conservative andyou're kind of the, I'll use my own
term, cowboy a little bit,which I know, I know you're not a
(10:47):
cowboy in regards to, youknow, basically, you know, you're
still very methodical.
You know, you're just notrunning around, like, doing, you
know, cowboyish things.
You take on more risk, Ithink, or look at some deals that
might have some higher risk,higher reward.
But you also understand, Ithink, what you're doing and what
the potential risks are.
(11:07):
But, you know, everyone hassome core investment philosophy.
You know, if you coulddescribe yours in one or two sentences,
you know, what is your philosophy?
I would say my core investmentphilosophy Is to make 20% return,
and that's it, you know, andthat sounds kind of crazy and not
(11:28):
realistic, but my goal with myinvestment portfolio Is to make 20%
return.
And when I look at that 20%return, it's not just, you know,
one number of like, hey, youmade 20% return on this investment.
Although I'll take that.
My.
The way I look at it is that20% return is on the entire portfolio
every year.
(11:48):
And that could just be, hey,you increase in appreciation or you
got depreciation because youdidn't have to pay taxes on something
or it appreciated in some way,shape or form, or you, you collected
a coupon.
And so I try to, you know,have an amalgamation where I'm averaging
a 20% increase in my overallinvestment portfolio every year.
(12:13):
Now, I'll be honest, itdoesn't happen every year.
And there have been a coupleyears where I've done better than
that, but the goal is to tryto get 20% return every year.
Now, it's interesting because,like you mentioned, some people will
look at it and say, that can'tbe done.
And, you know, the argumentis, well, yeah, if you invest like
(12:33):
now in X, Y or Z.
But this is where I had adiscussion with somebody the other
day about, like, forcedappreciation in, like, single family
and real estate.
And I'm like, you absolutelycan, in a simple, easy way.
Is, is if you know how tomanage contractors and you act as
a GC, you just forceappreciation by 25% because if it's
going to cost you, you know,GC is going to charge 100,000, you're
(12:55):
going to get it done.
If you act as the manager ofthat for 80,000 and you know, you
just force 20,000appreciation, yes, you spent time
on there, but at the end ofthe day, there's strategies that,
with certain expertise is whatyou have in different aspects of
real, that can allow you toget to that number.
(13:15):
So 100, man.
And I think that, that's,that's the, that's the, that's the
change that I think peoplehave to have in their mindset.
Obviously, if you just want tocollect the coupon, you're not going
to see that type of return.
You're going to be singledigit and if you're safe, it's going
to be mid to low single digit.
And if you want to put in somesweat equity or if you want to spend
some time, then you can reallyjuice your returns.
(13:37):
And I'm at a stage and seasonof my life where I'm trying to run
hard.
So hopefully, you know, in thenext 20 years I'm sitting on a beach
and you know, just respondingto emails and not necessarily working
as hard as I'm working now,but while, while I'm working hard,
I'm trying to make that 20% churn.
Yeah, go be sending me theemails, Chris, through this because
I'll probably be working for you.
(13:58):
So I may just say, hey, Chris,I want to make another investment
in your fund round 1500.
You know, there you go.
So, you know, we just talkedabout kind of your investment philosophy
about the 20%.
You know, to get that philosophy.
Most people have someprinciple that they live by in business
(14:18):
that, you know, guides you,whether you're dealing with borrowers,
other investors, your vendors,business partners.
You know, if you had todescribe one of your core principles,
you know, what, what do youthink it would be?
Yeah, I think, I think thereare two core principles that, that,
that I go by.
Right.
One is, you know, do on othersas you want them to do onto you.
(14:40):
Very straightforward principle there.
And then the next one is trustbut verify.
So those two principles are,are my core two principles.
As I look at note investing,as I look at businesses.
You know, I try to treateverybody the way I want to be treated
and you know, I trust you, butI will verify.
Oh, it's interesting because Irecorded a podcast earlier with A
(15:02):
woman who does due diligencefor private lending.
And she was a former likefederal investigator.
And she got into the businessbecause she had been burned in the
deal.
And when I asked her kind ofone of her, you know, you know, one
of her things, it was, she'slike, you know, I know a lot of people
do don't trust but verify.
(15:22):
I mean, trust but verify.
She's like, I don't trust but verify.
And I'm like, wow.
I'm like, that's pretty cold,you know, and stuff.
And she's like, well, I'vebeen burned.
So, you know, I'm just more ofa, you know, I'm not going to trust
you, but I'll verify it and toearn your trust.
So I'm like, interesting, youknow, so cool.
(15:43):
Okay, so you were or you aregoing to be speaking at the Paper
Trail conference.
You know, we put thisconference on and we were joking
offline like I've got nothingbetter to do.
So Chris, just go start a conference.
And you know, one of thethings that I focused on with this
conference was to bringtogether different groups of people
(16:07):
within the note space.
From private lending to sellerfinance, to performing to non performing
notes.
Because I haven't seen aconference where all of them get
together.
Because I know people like tolearn about other aspects and also
hear other stories from peoplebecause that's where the relationships
get built, you know, for you,you know, speaking and coming to
(16:29):
a conference, you know, why,you know, what's the importance for
you to be a part of the event, man.
So I think that anytime youcan get in the room with like minded
individuals, you are able toincrease not only your IQ but also
your net worth.
Right?
And so anytime I have gottenin rooms with people who are trying
(16:50):
to do what I'm doing or peoplewho are way ahead of me in my journey,
it always leads to moredollars in my bank account.
And so for me, the reason I'mexcited to go is because I think
it's going to help me not justmake 20, it's going to help me make
maybe 25 or 30%, you know, inthis next coming year.
In addition to that, again,it's that rule of if you're around
(17:12):
other people who are going inthe direction you're going to go,
you know, you may not getthere as fast, but they're going
to pull you in that direction.
And so just being in theseconferences and being in these rooms
and having theseconversations, sometimes the light
bulb goes off you and itreally can Be a game changer and
your, you know, not onlyfinancial journey, but also in your
own personal journey.
And the last thing is that,you know, a lot of my friends are
(17:35):
coming.
You know, I consider Chris tobe a friend.
And we don't get to hang outand chop it up all the time.
But, you know, you gottabelieve at these conferences we're
gonna, you know, have a goodtime, share some stories, share some
war stories and some battlescars and just connect with other
people.
And so that's the other partI'm looking forward to.
And it's funny you mentionedthat about like, you know, growing
your net worth.
And I tell people a story andI've said it a thousand times now.
(17:58):
Four years ago, I was, youknow, you know, working still on
a W2.
Then I did a conference thatmy speaking engagement was how to
lose money in note investing.
And somebody saw that and waslike, wow, I want to get to know
that person.
And that person essentiallystalked me for several months until
(18:19):
Shantae.
You know, Shantae, Shanticalls me one day, is like, will you
freaking call this woman?
She says she sent you likethree LinkedIn messages, a LinkedIn
voice message.
And she, you know, wants toconnect with you.
And she's like really sharpand stuff.
And, you know, fast forward to today.
That person, you know, is mynumber one employee.
They're my business partner.
And, you know, I was managinga few million in funds to today,
(18:43):
you know, I've got eightemployees and we've got over $40
million raised in our fundbecause of, you know, this meeting,
you know, a lot of it meetingwith this person, Lauren, because
I'm not a salesperson.
I'm not investor relations or money.
I'm a.
I know how to find and buydeal type person.
And I needed that otherperson, you know, my called Batman,
(19:07):
Robin or whatever you want tocall it, you know, duo to feed off
of something that is differentfrom you.
And, you know, I wouldn't bewhere I was today without, you know,
speaking at that conferenceor, you know, more networking and
finding people to figure outhow to grow a business.
So without spoiling yoursession, what's one thing you hope
(19:32):
attendees can learn or thinkdifferently about Note investing
after hearing you speak, Chris.
And you got to give theaudience a salacious kind of title.
So that way they just sign upfor your session.
So, you know, my session isgoing to focus on how to turn a hundred
thousand dollars into amillion dollars in 10 years.
What you think about that?
(19:53):
I like that.
I was waiting for if you wereto said six months or a year, I would
have basically called you outand said that's now I gotta edit.
Which I have seen people, youknow, see that and so forth.
But you know, interesting.
I mean you're going to talk,you know, about seconds and you know,
(20:14):
it's a space that it's kindof, I don't know why it's so controversial,
but it feels like there's alot of controversy in seconds in
the space.
And it's, you know, peopleeither like love it or hate it.
And you know, to me it's, youknow, again, it's another avenue
to grow a business.
So I'm just curious somefeedback on that.
(20:34):
Yeah, man.
So I am in the second space.
You know, I love seconds andthe way I look at seconds is just,
you know, how do you turnsmall dollars into big returns?
And you know, I was jokingabout the title but if you do the
math, if you can grow your$100,000 at 23% over 10 years, it'll
be a million bucks.
And so at the end of the daythe reality is that you can do that.
(20:57):
And I am currently doing thatwith my seconds portfolio.
And so ultimately I'm excitedto tell the audience one more about
seconds to how they differthan those first mortgages and things
like that.
And then the opportunitythat's out there with seconds and
the beauty of it for me islike, I don't have a class, I don't
have a toolkit that I'm tryingto sell you.
(21:17):
I don't have anything.
I'm just going to tell you myown experience and let you kind of
figure out what works best foryour own personal investment strategy
and excited to kind of be apart of this all star group you're
putting together.
And the only thing I got foryou is a book and if you come to
the session you may get a freecopy of it.
So I, I don't, I don't gotmore cars than that, Chris.
(21:38):
So what's interesting aboutseconds too is over the last 24 months,
you know, there hasn't been ahuge increase in invent.
There hasn't been a lot ofinventory in the second space.
And from that I know peoplewere involved, started to, you know,
shift away to other venturesand same thing with non performing
(22:01):
first as well.
But when you look at and I'mtype of person who I think I'm pretty
good at like seeing thefuture, predicting or just part of
me is just like common senseto some of this stuff but as note
investors, we get to see a lotof, I'll say, like the prequel to
the movies, because we seethings in regards to people's loans
(22:23):
that isn't being reported orlike what's hit.
Real estate's a slow moving space.
So what happens today or whatwe see might not actually impact
things for six months or ayear, but the number of people who
got lines of credit at verylow rates or adjustable rates during
COVID is mind blowing and offthe charts.
(22:47):
And as the interest rates haverisen, everything's gotten a lot
more expensive.
Taxes and insurance and peoplego back to racking up a lot of those
credit cards that they paidoff with these lines of credit.
I think, you know, and it'snot going to be tomorrow, but within
next 24 months you're going tostart to see a consistent supply
(23:09):
of seconds in the space.
Would you agree with that?
I do agree 100% and I like thesecond space because I think it positions
you very well to thinkcreatively about opportunities.
So if nothing else, whatbenefits investing in seconds has
done for me is that it's givenme the mindset of how do I try to
(23:31):
make a deal work that on facevalue may not look like a good deal.
And so when I think about yourspecific scenario, you have it with
homeowners, but then you alsohave with investors because you know,
you do a lot of stuff with,you know, DSER stuff and investment
loans.
And there are a lot ofinvestors out there who are in predicaments
now where they may not haveproperties that have enough to kind
(23:55):
of service that that firstmortgage or, you know, the loan to
value may be looking a littlebit sketchy as, as things change.
And so it creates anotheropportunity, as I think about some
of the other speakers youhave, not to just go buy seconds
that are non performing, butmaybe also to originate seconds as
you think about some of theother panels and speakers that are
going to be talking about.
And so the seconds mindset isnot just about, oh, how do I buy
(24:19):
an npl, a non performing loanand then make it reperform, but it's
also, you know, are seconds abetter position for me to be in?
Can I charge a higher interestrate because I'm in second position
behind the first on aninvestment property and all these
other things.
Can I take a shorter loan termwhereas the first mortgage may have
a 30 year AM I'm only doing a5 year note with the balloon.
(24:39):
So does that protect me in thelong run?
Because my investment timehorizon on that is shorter.
You know, all these differentthoughts that you can have when you're
dealing with seconds thatmaybe when you're dealing with the
traditional first, youwouldn't have to think about.
No.
And it's interesting becauselike you said, there's seconds.
And then at the conferencewe've got like private lending and
some of these other things.
But I've known people who've done.
(25:00):
And here's an interesting situation.
It's like, okay, where doesthis fit the box?
Somebody's owned an investmentproperty for a long time.
They got a rate at 3% on it,that they've owned it for eight years.
It's a $300,000 property.
I'm sorry, they have a$300,000 first.
The property is worth 800,000.
And you know, there's, youknow, they need to put a hundred
(25:20):
thousand in there because theywant to jack up the rent.
And you know, would you givethem a second?
That might be an investor loanor private lending, but there's situations
where, hey, look, you might beable to get a 15%, you know, write
that for a 24 month loan at15% interest only, and you're still
at 50% loan to value.
Now that in some instancesmight be safer than a first that
(25:44):
somebody did seller financingon, which we have a lot of topics
on that, or a First that's at70% LTV.
There's so many differentoptions and strategies and things
to say.
You just can't pick one andsay, like, I don't do a lot of seconds,
but I can't say, oh, secondsare bad.
There's situations where asecond in some seconds are far better
(26:05):
than first, you know, so it'sreally creating that situation that
I know you're excellent at doing.
So you hit the nail on the head.
And that's the, that's the bigthing around the second mortgage
is it's, it's another product,another arrow in your quiver, another
tool in your tool belt for youto be able to use and grow your wealth.
(26:26):
Now, you've worked with, youknow, all kinds of investors, you
know, besides just using thetypical answer everyone gives and
say, just be like, chris, nowwhat makes a great investor, in your
opinion?
I'm sorry.
I knew, I knew I was gonnathrow you for this one.
So for people who don't,again, DJ and I go back, you know,
(26:48):
many years and we alwaysbanter back and forth with each other.
So it's, I had to throw thatone out at you.
Well, you need, you need alittle Bit of.
You take a little bit of witfrom Chris, you know, a little bit
of style from DJ and you know,the brains of multiple attorneys,
and you mix it all together.
I think the big thing that aninvestor has to have is.
(27:11):
Is I'm trying to figure out aword that won't get bleeped out.
So is some gumption and someability to take a risk, because I
know a lot of people.
And Chris, you probably know alot of people who you have seen at
conferences, the few you goto, or you have, you know, seen on
different conference calls ormasterminds you may be in, who, you
know, have been studying andthinking about investing in a note
(27:33):
for, like the last, you know,10 years.
And you ask them, how manynotes have they bought?
And they'll say, oh, I got one.
And it's not because of lackof resources.
Right.
So I'm not, you know, saying,hey, if you don't have the money
and you're sitting on thesidelines, educating yourself is
a bad idea.
But a lot of these people havethe resources.
They just are scared to make a commitment.
They're scared to actuallypull the trigger.
(27:54):
And I think you have to besmart enough and wise enough and
bold enough to be able to say,I'm going to allocate a certain amount
of money to this type ofinvestment and be able to be okay
if you lose that money.
And so I think that that's thebig thing a good note investor has
to have is that ability totake the risk and live with the outcome.
(28:18):
Yep.
And it's interesting because Iknow of an investor who started right
around the same time I did.
And this person attends, Iwould say, at least a conference
every other month.
And I believe they've aboutone note in that time.
And I'm.
You know, one time they calledme up and I got mad at them because
(28:42):
I'm like, will you stop goingto conferences and go buy a damn
asset?
Like, stop, stop.
Just go buy something.
And the issue is, you know, there.
And this is one of the thingsthat I think people see.
And, you know, it's a conference.
You'll hear a lot ofconversations about this too.
People are looking for theperfect asset.
(29:02):
And what I mean by that is, Iwant the cleanest performing loan
that's been paying for fiveyears, but I also want to have like
20% EL to loan to value.
And I want to get it at a 13 yield.
And it's like, well, itdoesn't work that way.
You could buy it maybe at 9 or10 and still get above average, you
(29:22):
know, returns from the marketat like 8.
But you're not going to getlike some, you know, somebody's not
going to sell it to you at 13and 14.
And in the same token, they'relike, oh, I got this one under agreement.
And like, I got it for a gooddiscount, but then I do all the work
and it's like, well, it'smissing this or that and I'd have
to spend work or time to goget that document.
And, you know, they missed apayment last year and, you know,
(29:42):
whatnot and so forth.
I'm like, yeah, but that's whyyou're probably buying it at that.
You know, it's like anything,you know, there's a risk involved
and the more hair on theasset, the more discount there will
be.
Meaning hair, meaning moreissues potentially with it.
And sometimes people are justalways waiting for that perfect situation.
And I always use a term, youknow, there's the window shoppers
(30:04):
who are people who just go toconference and look at everyone who's
actually doing stuff andbasically like, hey, I'm on the other
side.
Just, you know, good to see you.
And then there's the actual doers.
So, no, that's.
I agree.
Because the only way you getbetter is by doing.
I use the golf analogy.
You can read every single bookin the world on how to hit a golf
ball, but I can guarantee youthat the most advancement you'll
(30:27):
ever make on a golf course isby either being at the driving range
or at the tee box.
So 100 and that's enough.
That's another reason I loveseconds, right?
I have bought.
I'm not in the hundreds yet,but I bought many.
I think I'm past 70 notes or whatever.
Most have been seconds.
(30:48):
And the reason I've been ableto do that is not because I have
a lot of money, right?
So, you know, I don't throwthat number out there saying like,
oh, man, you know, if you dothe math, it's not as much money
as Chris probably.
So you know what I mean?
But the reason I can isbecause you can buy small balance
notes that are second mortgages.
And so I bought notes for aslow as a thousand bucks, all the
(31:08):
way up to, you know, hundredsof thousands of dollars.
But at the end of the day,that ability to have the reps has
allowed me to be able to feelmore comfortable when I go spend,
you know, 25 or 30 or 50 or$60,000 on a note to feel more comfortable
to say okay, I'm going to getmy money back.
And I think that that's thebig thing that I love about seconds,
(31:29):
is that you can have more repsand have more opportunities to learn
and make mistakes.
And I'll be honest with you,I've made a ton of them, and I continue
to make them.
I just bought a note the otherday, and then the person who I bought
it from sent me a letter thatsays, hey, just so you know, we just
got this in the mail.
And it was basically the taxoffice letting them know that the
taxes were sold and that, youknow, if I don't.
(31:50):
If I don't write a big check,we're not getting it back.
You know what I mean?
So we still make the mistakes.
But it's one of those thingswhere, you know, it's.
You're always learning, butwithout these reps, you want to be
in that position where you can.
Yeah.
And somebody asked me theother day, which was a great question,
you know, if you started outtoday, what would you do differently?
And I told them I wouldstruggle a lot more today than I
(32:12):
did seven years ago or 10years ago or eight or.
I don't even know now.
But the reason I say that isbecause back in, like, 2016, when
I started, you could buycontract for deeds and these other.
First for 5, 10, 15, 20,000,which today you can't.
So to get started.
And I was doing that, whichagain, I was.
(32:32):
It was the.
The bulk factor of.
Buy some loans, work them out,and just learn through the experience
of buying, you know, loanafter loan after loan.
And they're affordable, so youcould recycle them.
Today, you can't do that withfirst, but you can still do that
with seconds, which is unique.
So it's a differentopportunity that previously people
who were considering One thingnow 10 years ago, might want if,
(32:54):
you know, with lesser money,get started in a different strategy.
But so what's one mistake thatyou see newer investors make that
you try to help them avoid?
Yeah, I think one of the bigmistakes I see newer investors make
is trying to follow too manydifferent people in the industry.
(33:14):
I think that, you know, I'veseen people who are part of, like,
three different mastermindsand, you know, take it with a grain
of salt.
I'm a part of a couplemasterminds myself.
So, like, I'm not.
I'm not knocking masterminds.
I think they're great.
But again, it goes back to that.
You got to find somebody whoyou want to learn from, and then
Learn from them and buy assets.
The biggest thing you can dois buy assets.
So if you can go buy assets,it changes your, your trajectory
(33:38):
in the business.
Because if I spend two orthree years learning, yeah, it's
important to sharpen your,your, your sword, you know, or sharpen
your ax before you cut downthe tree.
I agree.
100 but this is notes.
You don't have to sharpen youraxe for four or five years.
Right.
You know, you can sharpen yourax for, you know, six months and
continue to sharpen it, youknow, as you're buying additional
notes.
And so learning from too manypeople and being a part of too many
(34:01):
masterminds versus going andgo buy a note or create a note or,
you know, focus in and dosomething, that's the biggest pitfall
I see people fall into.
The other thing I see ispeople not only in three different
groups, but they're on threedifferent things.
You know, one's in a groupdoing this, one's a group doing that.
And they have too much whereit's like, okay, focus on one thing.
Because when you focus onmultiple things, you end up doing
(34:23):
nothing.
And I had a conversation withsomebody earlier today similar, like
they're trying to find moresellers, more sellers, more sellers.
And I told them, like, look, Ialready gave you a name of five sellers
and you told me how much moneyyou have.
Focus on them.
Like, you don't need 20sellers if you got a hundred thousand
dollars, invest, find, focuson that one.
(34:46):
If you.
Trust me, if you buy a deal orseveral deals with a seller and you
know, go through a duediligence close and do it in an efficient
manner over time, thatperson's going to remember you because
it's small space.
And then, you know, then youroll that one up to another one.
You come up say, hey, great, Igot that deal, it's done.
You got something else for me.
(35:07):
All of a sudden you get like2, 3, 4 deals from one person.
You know, it snowballs.
I today to this date, again, Ihave lost track how many notes I
bought.
But the majority of the loanswe buy, and it shifted over the years,
used to be one seller webought a lot from, they're no longer
around and stuff.
But you know, and it shifts consistently.
(35:29):
But in any given point intime, it's typically three people.
You know, I could name 25sellers right off the top of my tongue
who sell loans.
But primarily I typically buyfrom like three.
Now, it doesn't mean I don'tbuy from the others.
It's one offs in here.
But it's primarily from thesame people who I've built relationships
over the last decade with.
Yeah, no, and when I thinkabout my portfolio, you know, majority
(35:52):
comes from one seller andthen, you know, I got about four
others that I bought from.
You know what I mean?
And so it's one of thosesituations where again, if you get
in, you get in a good space.
And another thing about that,you know, as you talk about sellers,
is there's a rapport that's built.
Right?
So if for some reason a dealdoesn't work out, you know, in your
favor, they'll, they'llremember you on the other one.
(36:12):
Like, you know, they, theywon't, they won't fade you or, or,
or they'll help you out onanother one.
And that's the, again, it'sthe relationship piece.
Like, I know that if I buy anote from Chris and it goes sideways
for, you know, somethingthat's out of his control, well,
I know in the future he'lllook out for me.
Right.
And, and that's just therelationships you build.
And that's just the way it works.
Works in any business, butspecifically in this small space.
(36:35):
Yep.
100 agree.
Okay, as we wrap up thisepisode, we're gonna do a little
bit of lightning, round and soforth, and you know, ask you a few
questions as we wrap up.
What's one word you would useto describe the current market?
Buyer beware.
Oh, I like that.
It's actually two words, butI'll let you get away with it.
(36:55):
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
You know, it's, you know, andI mentioned this in elsewhere too.
I've been getting trolled alittle bit on social media because
I kind of made that commentwhere somebody made a comment, oh,
properties are still sellingwell over asking price in certain
markets.
And I'm like, okay, but 49 outof 50 markets are declining.
(37:16):
In certain markets, you'reseeing huge drops and persons like
calling me out and stuff andlike, show it to me.
And I actually took a.
Because there's all publicnotice, two properties are nearing
foreclosure and a brand newneighborhood of 14 homes.
The house, two of them are inforeclosure and they're in foreclosure
(37:41):
for call around a million to amillion one where all the other homes
are selling for 1.5.
Okay.
And I was using an example isthese went to foreclosure.
Actually they just finishedone of them finished foreclosure.
The other one's like,Foreclosure in, like, two weeks.
And I said, this one just sold it.
Foreclosure auction for like 1million 50.
(38:02):
The other one's coming up.
All the other houses areselling for 1.4, 1.5, but only, like,
four of the 14, like, they'restill being built have sold.
And I use the example of whatis going to happen when somebody
goes to buy a house for 1.4million and the last two sales in
that neighborhood are REOs fora million dollars.
Yep.
Like, the appraisals are goingto come in low.
(38:22):
It's going to drop the prices,and everything's going to.
You go to southwest Florida,Cape Coral, Port Charlotte, that
area.
People are building homes.
Builders are walking away fromhomes because they thought they'd
be worth a half a million dollars.
When they're done constructingthem, they're in the three worth,
you know, 300 grand, 350 now, 375.
I mean, those are.
It's 20% decline.
(38:42):
That's a big number.
So cool.
Same thing may happen in thatsubdivision you're talking about,
because they're not donebuilding the houses.
They're gonna be like, it'snot worth it.
Let's take our loss now.
Yep.
So what's one thing you'vechanged your mind about in the last
year?
(39:03):
Avocado toast.
Oh, are you a fan?
I am now.
Okay.
Your bread has to be the righttexture, but I had it before.
And slightly brown.
Right.
Lightly brown.
Okay.
Lightly brown.
Or maybe even a little bitmore toasted.
But I had it a couple timesand the bread was soggy.
It was like, ah, I'm not afan, but I've had it recently.
(39:26):
And I was like, okay.
With the right.
With the right toast on thebread, you know, a nice, not good
lunch or breakfast.
It's interesting because mywife and daughter.
Big avocado toast.
Like, if we go out forbreakfast and stuff, and I've never
been, but I try, like, youknow, those.
My daughter, who's, you know,you know, small and can never like,
(39:46):
you know, breakfast placesgive you, like, the big thing.
And she's like, yeah, eatingall that.
So one time, like, let me trysome of it.
And I was tasting.
I'm like, I'm not usually abig avocado person.
Like, man, it's actuallypretty good.
So.
Yeah.
Cool.
And last question again,besides me, because I just don't
(40:06):
jump in a conclusion now.
Who's a person you'd like tothank for your success?
I'll probably say my wife.
She'll never listen to this podcast.
So, you know, I was just gonna.
Say you're probably gonna nameyour wife just to be in the good
graces business with her.
So that's pretty impressive.
She'll never listen.
But, you know, I think likeanything else, the beauty of marriage
in general is that, you know,it keeps you humble.
(40:30):
And especially when you'resomebody like me who, who thinks
you have it all figured outand you're willing to, you know,
go in guns a blazing.
She is definitely the personwho's like, no, you're wrong.
And she'll remind you of howmany times you've been wrong and
she keeps a very good recordof it.
And so I think that that'shelpful for somebody who, who has
a little bit of an ego.
(40:51):
And it's also helpful to kindof have her perspective because,
you know, opposites do attractin some way, shape or form.
But she's helped me make a lotmore wise decisions where I would
go in guns a blazing.
And so she's definitely a big,a big contributor to my success.
Yeah.
And it's interesting foranybody who has, you know, a spouse
(41:12):
or a partner out there andyou're kind of, you know, an entrepreneur
in the business, don'tunderestimate how powerful that partner
can be.
And a lot of times you'relike, I don't want to put that upon
them and stuff.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I've just like ran situations
by my wife, who is a thousandtimes smarter than me anyways.
But, but just, you know,having that conversation with her
(41:34):
or just sometimes if you haveeven just to calm you down a little
bit or you know, just, youknow, sometimes because I'm type
person sometimes who Iactually have a 10 second delay on
my send because sometimes Iget a little hot or fired up a little
bit, but you know, justhearing another opinion.
But also if it's not yourbusiness partner, just somebody who's
not as involved becausesometimes a situation you get so
(41:57):
involved in it, you can't seethe forest from the trees.
And you know, having that, youknow, with you, the tag team with
you and your wife, you know,that's actually an awesome partnership.
And you know, congratulationsfor, you know, keeping that and being
successful in it.
No, thank you.
And again, a lot of successjust comes from the fact that she's
(42:19):
a lot smarter than me, butlets me take a lot of credit.
So, you know, I mean, it'llbe, it'll be, it'll be her idea.
But I Like, yeah, you knowwhen I told you that, she's like,
yeah, I told you that fiveyears ago.
But yeah, it's your idea.
You know what I mean?
So.
But no, like you, man, I thinkwe both have, you know what, out
kicked our coverage as itcomes to our wives.
So, you know, we're salesmen.
That's what we do.
And I'm grateful for it.
(42:40):
Well, dj, thanks for coming on today.
Always a pleasure.
You know, getting a talk shopwith you.
If people want to learn moreabout you, reach out to you, what's
the best way and tell, youknow, what book, what's the name
of the book and podcast thatthey can listen to?
You know, gotta sell yourselfa little bit now.
Yeah.
So I am DJ Alojo on all socials.
(43:02):
My email is dj@aso holdings.com.
my book is called theForeclosure Fix.
12 Proven Steps to beat thebank escape foreclosure and turn
your property into aprofitable asset.
And if you want to reach outto me, you want to see me, you want
to talk to me, you got to cometo the Paper Trail conference.
Because if you're there, we'llhave conversations over coffee, over
(43:22):
lunch, over libations, andwe'll just have a really good time.
And I would love to see you inthe place.
I plan to be there, bow tieand all.
So make sure you get your ticket.
I know that there is some,some, some promo codes if you are
one of the first folks to kindof sign up, and not first, but sign
up before a certain date.
So I'll let Chris tell youabout how to do all that, but definitely
(43:45):
I would love to see you thereand look forward to meeting you in
person.
Yep.
So you can just go topapertrail conference.com It's September
18th to 20th in Chandler, Arizona.
It is multiple days ofinvesting discussions, workshop sessions,
networking, and you know, alsolast day.
(44:06):
I know a lot of people like totry and bail early.
So we are going to spend a daytalking AI and I've already got my
person creating some crazystuff that try and blow some people's
minds with just, you know,where the business could also be
headed.
So thanks for listening tothis episode and as always, continue
to follow that paper trail.
(44:26):
Thank you all.
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