In this episode, Chris sits down with long-time real estate investor and creative finance educator William Tingle. With 25+ years of experience in the trenches, William shares how he built a real estate portfolio using Subject-To and seller finance strategies, without money, formal education, or a silver spoon.
Together, they cover:
- How William quit his job after buying 24 houses in 12 months
- Why Subject, To investing isn’t about taking advantage—it’s about helping first
- Real examples of win-win deals (including 30% equity on a house with no cash out of pocket)
- The biggest mistakes new investors make (and how to avoid them)
- Why counting doors doesn’t equal success
- What William will be bringing to the upcoming Paper Trail Conference
Whether you're new to creative real estate or looking to scale with integrity, this episode delivers grounded advice and real-life lessons you won’t hear from the “guru crowd.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:44):
Welcome to the Paper Trailwhere we follow the journey, my journey
through the world of a CEO ofa mortgage note fund.
I'm Chris 70 and after yearsof buying, managing and selling notes
with 70 investments, I'm hereto share the real stories behind
the deals.
What went right, what wentwrong, and what I wish I knew earlier.
(01:04):
From non performing loans toseller financing to private lending,
this show is about more thanstrategies, about growing your business,
learning to follow the papertrail and doing the due diligence
that separates the pros fromthe rest.
Now let's hit the trail running.
(01:26):
Welcome back to anotherepisode of the Paper Trail podcast.
I am your host, Chris 70.
Today I got to speak withWilliam Tingle.
William has been investing inreal estate pretty much forever.
He is specific into creativefinancing and subject to investing.
(01:47):
But one of the things that Iloved the moment I met William was
there are people out there whotake what he does and simplify it
or make it seem like you cando this with your eyes closed and
also charge people a ton ofmoney to learn this process.
William is like me, no frills,no bs, calls it like he sees it and
(02:14):
really gets people educated onit and actually has a like a $7 coaching
program.
He also recently just wrote abook called the 12 House Blueprint
which again I recommend foreverybody on how to generate revenue
for buying basically a house amonth or a house a year.
(02:37):
So always have a great timespeaking with William.
I hope you enjoy this episodewhere we talk about what he is going
to bring for value at thePaper Trail conference.
So hope you enjoy and lookforward to catching the next episode.
William, how are you doingtoday, man?
(02:59):
I am doing fantastic.
How about you?
I am doing pretty good.
As I mentioned, free recording.
It's been a crazy busy day andmy life has just been crazy busy
lately.
But hey, being anentrepreneur, running a business,
it's.
That's what you got to expectfrom it.
So.
That's exactly right.
Something different every day.
Exactly.
Which we love what we do andwhich rolls into that first question
(03:21):
that I always ask people islet's start with your story.
How'd you get investing in thefirst place?
Oh boy.
Let's see.
Okay, so I've got a story likea lot of real estate investors entreprene.
I was career that I just fell into.
I was a restaurant district manager.
I worked 70 hours a week.
(03:42):
I was miserable.
I never saw my family.
And I said there's got to besomething better than this.
And one night as it wouldhappen, I was up it was about 2 in
the morning.
I was watching TV, flippingchannels, and there was Carlton Sheets.
And a lot of people, youngerpeople won't remember Carlton, but
he was one of the original gurus.
He sold a late night TVinfomercial real estate course called
(04:05):
no Down Payment.
And he had a bunch of hisstudents on there and that had two
brain cells.
And I said, if those guys cando it, I can do it too.
And I ordered it.
And the course showed up a fewweeks later.
And I just did what he said to do.
I actually opened all of thevolumes and read them and took action.
And I bought my first houseabout 30 days later.
(04:27):
And then I bought another and another.
And I said, whoa, this mightreally work.
And so I said, okay, I needsome goals.
And I said, I want to quit myjob in a year.
And I bought 24 houses in 12 months.
Wow.
And I quit my job.
So that's how I got started.
Wow.
Now, were you buying thosemostly with no money down or at the
(04:51):
time.
Or X or Man, Carl Sheetstaught you to be creative.
Now, my first house that Ibought, I actually bought it with
a small local bank.
They funded it.
A guy put me onto him and hesaid, if you buy it cheap enough,
they'll fund the whole thing.
So I went in there with myCarlton Sheets course under my arm
and I sat across the desk fromthis old codger that was the president
(05:11):
of the bank.
And I said, I want to be areal estate investor.
And he rocked back in hischair and he said, okay, bring me
a deal and we'll see.
So I brought him a deal acouple weeks later.
And he said, all right, you'regoing to have to have some skin in
the game.
And I said, wait a minute.
My course said I didn't haveto have anything down.
And he said, I don't know whatit said, but you're new and you're
(05:32):
not tested.
You're going to have to havesome money.
And I thought.
And I said, okay, how about this?
What if I put a $5,000 CD inyour bank and you hold that as collateral?
That do instead of a down payment?
And he said, okay.
So I borrowed $5,000 off acredit card and opened a CD at his
(05:53):
bank, and he funded that full thing.
I walked out of closing with acheck for $813.
And I said, man, I thought,man, this stuff really works.
Well, it's interesting justagain, as we hear this, because a
few things.
One is your last name's notRockefeller, so it's not like you
had top bags of money behind you.
(06:14):
It's, oh, you go buy 24 homes.
Yeah.
Because you probably came from money.
Sounds like basically youliterally took a credit card advance,
which I typically tell people,don't ever do that, please.
Unless you're fiscallyresponsible and started buying property
with it.
And basically by followingsomebody's blueprint, which everybody
else could have, you probablyordered a flowbe, maybe that time
(06:37):
right after it on the infomercial.
But, you know, the pointbeing, for people listening or watching
is a lot of us out there, you did.
And we'll get into that later.
But many people out thereprovide exactly what it is you need
to do to be successful orstart to get some traction.
(06:58):
And you just got to take thetime and focus.
That's exactly right.
And I'll tell you this, and Iused to tell my wife this, and she
experienced it firsthand withthe first house we bought when we
moved to northwest Arkansas.
I said, I have bought no lessthan half a dozen properties over
the years that had a CarltonSheets course in a clause in a bedroom
closet.
(07:19):
And without fail, the firstvolume, because there's three or
four volumes, the first volumewas open, but the rest of them were
still in shrink wrap.
That.
That is an absolute.
You can count them.
And the first house we boughthere had a Carlton Sheets course
in the box.
It sure did.
(07:39):
So you got the solution right there.
But most people just won'tfollow through.
They see something, they hit aroadblock, and instead of saying,
how can I get past this?
How can I get.
How can I make this work?
They go, oh, this is too hard.
Yep.
So let's dive a little bit deeper.
What's something about yourjourney that a lot of people may
not know about you?
(08:00):
I don't know if this wasduring the journey, but something
a lot of people don't knowabout me is that I quit school in
the ninth grade.
So obviously I didn't havemoney, and I don't have a lot of
education either.
So you don't have to havemoney, and you certainly don't have
to have a lot of formal education.
So you weren't the Harvardguy, you weren't the Rockefeller,
just ordinary guy who went anddid it.
(08:23):
And today, again, written abook, has a course, is successful,
just goes to show.
Boils really down.
Had this conversation with myson the other day.
You should be thankful aboutthe intelligence that you have, but
it only gets you to a certain spot.
Hard work and grit is whatmakes, in my mind, the haves from
(08:46):
the have nots.
So I agree.
I totally agree.
And most of the students I'vemet in my investing and my teaching,
the tougher they were, thelower the point they were at.
It increases their chances ofbeing successful.
People that have it too easy,that have too good a paying job,
or they don't hate their jobenough, it's harder for them to make
(09:06):
that break.
But, man, when you hate whereyou work and you're barely getting
by.
And I looked like 95% of thepeople in this country do, I was
probably two or threepaychecks away from living in the
street, and I made 70 grand ayear in 1999.
And that wasn't bad money.
But still, I spent what I made.
I was not a good steward ofwhat I had.
Most people aren't.
(09:28):
And as a result, we charged upChristmas gifts and we paid them
off with a tax refund in January.
And I know a lot of peoplethat do that.
And I look at again myself andpeople who've heard my story.
I left a cushy corner officemaking roughly quarter million, whatever
dollars a year, loving my jobto do what I do today.
(09:48):
And a lot of people will lookat me and say, you're fricking nuts.
You had a great job, you, jobsecurity, making great money.
I was executive in the companyand it's, yeah, I'm going to throw
all that away to go start myown company.
And you know what?
Best decision I ever made, andprobably like everyone else, wish
I would have done it 10 years earlier.
But like you said, you getcaught in that position of you're
(10:10):
so comfortable with, withwhere you're at, that it's like,
why do I need, why should Iconsider doing something?
And I've talked about this onother podcasts about why I did that.
But it's hard.
And like you said, the easierpeople have it, the harder it is
for them to do something.
It's harder for them to makethat change.
They're afraid.
(10:30):
And then you're surrounded bypeople saying what you just said.
You're crazy.
When you got your family andeverybody that you go to church with
or you socialize with, saying, what?
What are you doing?
So it's tough.
Yeah.
Especially again, we're closein age that we come from the, the
generation of.
(10:51):
A lot of times it's like yougo get a W2 and save in your 401k
and that's what you should dofor 40 years before you retire.
And that's the path that theyteach you when we were younger.
It's, this is what you shouldbe doing and it brainwashes you that
if you want to do something else.
I remember my first job offer.
I didn't like the offer and Ididn't take it.
(11:12):
And I was out of just, it wasin between, like I technically graduated
yet and all my friends alreadyhad offers and I told my parents,
I'm not going to accept this.
Like you're nuts.
It's a job, just start with something.
I'm like, I think something better.
And then something much bettercame on.
And at this time I started outCollege making 35 grand a year 25,
30 years ago, which back thenwas like rich.
(11:34):
Now, whole different story today.
But yeah.
So let's dive a little bitmore about you, your investment process
philosophy.
What is your investment philosophy?
If you can describe in one ortwo sentences and how did you come
about with that philosophy?
I think part of the reasonthat I have the one that I have is
(11:55):
because most of the sellersthat I deal with now, real estate
investors, we're generally notpaying retail for houses.
And in fact the name of ourinvestment company is Plan B.
Okay, We're Plan B propertiesbecause we're not most people's plan
A, but because most of thepeople that I deal with are under
(12:16):
financial stress or inforeclosure or something along those
lines.
I think it's really importantand this is what I teach my students.
You have to approach yoursellers first with a heart to help
and care about their needs andwhat you can get for them before
the deal.
In fact, that's our approachwith people in foreclosure is listen,
(12:38):
we don't even mention buyingtheir property.
I doorknock people inforeclosure and the first thing that
they hear from me is, hey, I'mhere to see if there's any way I
can help you.
And this shock on their faceand how can you help me?
What are you looking to do?
Do you want to keep your homeor do you want to sell your property?
I'd like to stay.
Okay.
(12:58):
Have you talked to your lender?
No.
Because a lot of them haven't.
They're scared, they'reashamed, they're embarrassed.
And as a non performing noteholder, trust me, it's when we do
that same thing, people arelike, oh, I was always too afraid.
And I try and educate people.
The sooner you can startconversations, the better off you
are versus waiting and.
The more options are availableto you.
(13:19):
But that's the first thing wesay, okay, let's go sit down and
pick up the phone and callyour lender and see what programs
are available for you to saveyour home.
And we've helped countlesspeople stay in their house.
We never bought their house.
We helped them.
We said congratulations, bestof luck and didn't charge them a
penny to help them.
Now if they can't qualify forany programs, if they still don't
(13:42):
have a job, if they've losttheir job and that's the problem,
then we'll talk to them aboutselling their home in a way that'll
save their credit, get themsome cash to start over.
But that's what I always say.
The first thing we do, weapproach a seller with a heart to
help.
How can we provide what they need?
And if we buy the house, makea deal, that works for us too.
(14:03):
Yeah, We've known each otherfor a while and if I were to describe
everything about you in oneword, I would say genuine.
And you know what I mean bythat for people listening is William
is very genuine in everythingthat he does and says and in the
world that he plays in withsome of the sub 2 stuff, there's
(14:25):
a lot of people who are notgenuine and will pretend that they
want to help a homeowner indistress and they're really just
trying to help themselves.
And it can sometimes give theindustry a bad name.
There's certain states thatcan't even now communicate with borrowers
in pre foreclosure because ofso many different scams that have
(14:46):
been out there.
So it's something that, youknow, I hear it's refreshing because
talk about the paper trailconference in a minute and having
you part of this event.
But the people I wanted tobring and speak at this event are
the people who.
Two things.
One is they're genuine, theyhave integrity, they're honest and
(15:07):
they actually are doing whatthey, they teach people.
There's so many people todaywho have a course.
If people not are justlistening, I'm air quoting right
now on an investment strategythat they have never even implemented
or they did it for one or twotimes and next thing you know they're
like writing a book ortraining course on how to do something
(15:30):
because they did it once.
That's true.
It's really, given what we do,a bad name as investors.
I'm telling you it's going toget tough.
It's going to get, it's bad now.
It's so much different thanwhen I got started and it's going
to get worse.
Yeah.
It continues to get worse.
And interestingly enough, Ithink the Internet is a good thing
and a bad thing.
(15:50):
And it's great because there'sso much information.
It's very easy to, as aninvestor, invest anywhere where.
When I bought my first housein 2001, I was literally going to
the real estate office to lookat the flyers for homes or in a newspaper.
For what?
Open houses.
Because Internet, I think, wasaround, but it really wasn't around.
And then from that standpoint.
(16:12):
But yeah, it's been someinteresting changes over the years,
to say the least.
It sure has.
I tell these guys all thetime, y' all don't know how lucky
y' all have it.
You've got Zillow.
And back when I got started,there wasn't social Media, there
wasn't YouTube.
There were no videos to watchwhen you got these chat rooms.
And you'd ask a question andpray that somebody that was one of
(16:32):
the top dogs would answer itfor you.
And we used to drive fordollars and then go to the tax office
once a week and look up allthe addresses.
So mail to people.
And now it's just at yourfingertips, so it's so much easier.
I'm laughing because I'm like.
I'd be in a chat room orsomething listening or watching something,
but then my sister would pickup the phone, which would immediately
disconnect the AOL connection,and then she needed the phone so
(16:56):
you couldn't get back on, andthen you miss whatever it is you're
trying to do.
Man, so good.
My kids will never know.
Never understand.
Without spoiling your thunder,we have you speaking at the conference.
What's one thing you'd likefor the people attending to either
learn or think differentlyabout creative finance and subject
(17:16):
to.
After hearing you talk.
Yeah, it's interesting, and wejust got through talking about this,
but the main thing I wantpeople to understand is that there's
a couple of things.
Number one, creative finance,and especially Subject to, isn't
always about taking advantageof sellers or abusing them in some
way.
You can take over payments ona property and your seller be perfectly
(17:39):
happy with it and have areally good outcome.
And secondly, it's just thatwe're in such a hustle culture now,
especially when it comes toreal estate and real estate training.
That's the big thing, man.
I buy 30 houses a month, blah,blah, blah.
And I've been teaching foryears because I do this and I understand
it.
(18:00):
A few chosen deals a year willset you free and let you live the
lifestyle that you want.
That's really what I wantpeople to understand that subject
to isn't bad, doesn't have tobe bad, and that you don't have to
work a job in investing.
You can really have a goodlifestyle, travel, do what you want
(18:21):
to do.
And I know this because I do it.
So I was going to say you'retraveling, and I know you traveled
and moved around.
And I think some people get tothe point of trying to count too
many doors and they.
It's the male ego, especiallyof counting doors.
And I remember in college Iwas in fraternity and you always
(18:43):
joke, someone ask, oh, comparehow many beers somebody could drink
in a night.
One time someone's.
Yeah, he's.
Boys count, men drink.
And similar.
Like real estate in the senseof the big boys in the industry.
They're not counting how manydoors they have.
They're just bury their headsdown and getting the work done.
If I asked you probably, howmany properties have you owned in
(19:06):
your career and so forth?
Most people I know have anidea, but they're like, you know,
I don't have that exact number.
Like, when people ask how manynotes I've bought, I've had 600 on
my slide for the last year ofhow many notes I bought, I'm like,
yeah, it's probably 700 orwhatnot or like in my fund.
I'm like, I think I got 85 to90 right now.
(19:26):
I could tell.
I know a lot about our loans,but I don't keep track of.
It's not a competition for me.
Of, oh, my ego boost.
And it's the same thing withyou from what I've seen.
Right?
Yeah, for sure.
I could.
There's no way I could tellyou how many houses we bought over
26 years.
It's just not that important.
I can tell you, you know, thatthey're profitable.
(19:46):
Because that certainty.
That's what I call it,certainty of profit.
Yeah, I see people, man.
I got about three deals thismonth and they'll make some really
stupid decisions to meet that number.
I'm not.
I want it.
My goal is always to buy onehouse a month.
And what if I miss this month?
It's okay.
Yeah.
Now, you've worked with alltypes of people, investors.
(20:09):
What's one thing.
And again, you mentionedCarlton and so forth, you know, clearly
a mentor to you in that senseof things.
What did you think made him orsomebody else great, in your opinion,
or somebody to look up to orreally admire or pivot, figure out
what they did and follow youknow what I.
Really loved about Carlton Sheets?
And I think to this day, ofcourse, Carlton's been dead for several
(20:31):
years.
He was a bucket list thing for me.
I wanted to meet him, but Iwaited too late.
One of the really great thingsabout his course was now it was an
inch deep and 10 miles wide.
It covered a lot of stuff, butnot very in depth.
But it was always abouttreating the seller fairly and doing
ethical deals.
You didn't see any stuff inthere about taking shortcuts or doing
(20:55):
this or doing that that youhear about these days.
So from that standpoint, I'mreally glad I got my start with that
because he was all aboutethical investing.
And I think that's really important.
You make a ton of money inthis business and you don't have
to hurt anybody to do it.
Yep.
That 100%.
You don't.
(21:15):
Again, it's.
You can do the right thing andstill be very profitable in this
business.
You certainly can.
And I can give you.
If you don't mind, I'll giveyou a quick example of the.
Yeah, but no, I'd love to.
Yeah, we just closed on itlast week and this guy called us
off of our radio ad.
That's one of the marketingthings we do, is radio.
And he lived, actually livedabout 10 minutes from me.
(21:36):
It was a great little threebedroom, two bath brick home that
he had bought three years ago.
His dad died a couple ofmonths ago.
He's in a life transition thing.
He and his dad were very close.
His dad lived in Hot Springs,which is a few hours from us, and
he wants to move back to that area.
And he just wanted out fromunder that mortgage payment.
(21:56):
I had a great loan, a 4%mortgage, a really good payment on
the house.
He owed $214,000 on a $300,000 house.
He could have listed and soldthat house for 300.
He'd have probably paid 30,000in agents fees, closing cost, and
walked away with 50,000 or so.
And he said, listen, he said,I know I've got some equity in this
(22:18):
house.
I just want to get back home.
I want certainty.
And when we're going to close,I don't want to have to wait around
and mess around.
And I just want it gone.
And I said, you just want tosell it for what you owe on it?
And he said, if I can get itdone on the closing date, that I
want to close.
Yes.
And of course, we took overthe payments on that house and he
moved back home.
And that guy gave me 30%equity in that property.
(22:42):
But he was happy.
We were certainly happy.
If he'd asked for money, Iwould have written him a check.
But he said, listen, he said,I just want it gone.
So that's what we did.
So he was happy.
Are you going to now put awrap on it?
Are you going to rent it outor what's the that.
That's exactly what we'regoing to do.
We're going to make someoneelse a homeowner that couldn't buy
(23:03):
with a bank.
We'll get probably 20,000 downon that house.
We'll finance them.
We'll go to a title companyfor closing.
We don't charge points, wedon't charge junk fees.
They pay 750 bucks which isthe title agent's fee to close it.
All of their 20,000, exceptfor that 750 will go toward their
down payment and then we'llfinance them at current bank rates
(23:25):
about 7%.
So it's a good deal for everybody.
Yeah, it's.
That's one thing that wepreach a lot is what we do.
And again we focus on the nonperforming note side of things.
But everyone thinks everythinghas to be a net sum zero of if somebody
wins, somebody go lose.
There's so many situationslike this one here that you've got
three winners in this thing.
The original seller who gotout from under it and he's okay with
(23:49):
giving up a little bit of thepiece of the pie because again, it's
peace of mind of gettingclosed by a certain date.
You get the property at slightdiscounts and then you can put also
a homeowner in that propertythat now gives you a down payment
which is cash and thenarbitrage that wrap with the cash
flow.
And somebody's buying a housethat may not.
They may not have gotten froma bank that is getting it at bank
(24:11):
today's rates.
So everybody wins.
That's right.
It's.
You don't have to charge people.
And listen, I'm out there too.
I hear the stuff that's taughtand everything in the marketplace
too.
There are people out therethat'll finance somebody at 11, 12%,
whatever the law will allow.
And it's just not necessary.
I want my buyer to be able toafford that house and to stay for
(24:33):
a really long time.
Because every month that theystay in that house, I'm going to
make about 500 bucks in cash flow.
And if they stay for threeyears or five years or 10 years,
I'm still making money.
Yep.
It's interesting you mentioned that.
Because if you jump that rate,okay, Maybe it adds 100 or $150 a
month.
And people like that adds upover time and hits me on in the rental
(24:57):
side of things sometimes whereI'll go.
We've got a rental unit thatrents for about 1750.
And I remember one time whenwe were 1600, we were going to raise
the rent to 1650 and thepeople really came back and said,
hey, can you just keep it at1600 for one more year?
Just an asset and great tenantand so forth.
Now, if not, there's one ofthe partners had lost their job,
(25:18):
so they're a little tight oncash, but they're back work and they're
just trying to.
And my wife and I talk aboutlike, yeah, we're going to keep them
at 1600 because for an extra$50 a month, if they move out, it's
going to take me a month toget somebody in.
So I'm losing 1600 to get.
How long is it going to takeme to get that $1600 back?
It's going to take me years.
Like, why?
Sometimes trying to scrapethat last dollar from everybody doesn't
(25:43):
always get you the win.
Exactly.
Exactly what you're talking about.
You're talking about 600 extradollars a year.
And if they moved out, you'dhave at least a month of vacancy.
You probably have to do alittle bit of freshening up for your
next tenant.
That's probably anotherthousand, $2,000.
It's just not worth it if yougot a good person in your house that
(26:03):
pays you every month.
So what if that rent's just alittle bit lower than the market?
Oh, yeah.
And it's Montgomery County,Maryland, so you don't get anything
done for a thousand.
Would have cost 5,000.
Just have somebody blow theirnose inside the place, too.
Yeah, no, you're 100% right.
So we talk about some of thethings we are sharing right now,
and I'll say some of themistakes that we see people making
(26:24):
trying to scrape the last dol.
Trying to take advantage.
What's another mistake newerinvestors make and how do you try
and help to avoid them?
And I know we don't have fourhours to finish recording this because
William and I are in some ofthe same Facebook groups and some
of the stuff that we just seeand people do is just.
(26:46):
I just like, my mind implodesof what we've seen people do that
as a new investor just makesyou cringe because they either got
very bad coaching or I don'tknow, they just are too gung ho.
I'll let you share a few.
The main thing for newinvestors to me is just the ones
(27:10):
that just overthink everydetail and think they have to know
every single thing before theyget started.
Get out there and start havingsome conversations with people.
For example, the deal I justshared with you.
I answered the phone, hecalled me from an ad.
He could have called me from abandit sign or anything else.
I had a conversation with him.
He told me the offer.
(27:30):
He told me, I just want to getrid of this house.
He basically wrote thecontract for me.
Hire someone or get a localmentor, somebody at your RIA that
does what you want to do andhave them there on speed dial.
If you didn't know anythingand you had a conversation with Curtis,
that was my seller, anyonecould have called me and said, listen,
(27:51):
I'm sitting here talking to Curtis.
He just wants to get rid ofhis house.
He's willing to let me takeover the payments.
What do I need to do next?
I could have stepped themthrough anything.
And a lot of local mentorscould do that as well.
Don't wait until you knoweverything, because you never will.
I learn stuff every day.
Oh, I have a call tomorrowwith a new client vendor that I sent
over.
(28:11):
Some stuff today that we'regoing to be discussing.
And I'm like, you know,talking to my team.
Like, I have zero idea how anyof this works.
So I'm going to be on the call tomorrow.
And basically the first thingis, can you just make sure and walk
me through, you know, what acertain aspect of this.
So I understand it because Ithink I conceptualize and grasp it
(28:34):
as an engineer.
Like, you're trying to put allthe pieces and parts together, overthink
it.
And I'm like, just explain itto me.
And I know some people wouldbasically like.
They would have gone andstudied what were the conversation
for six months and would neverpicked up the phone and called this
person and said, hey, I seeyou do this.
I would love to potentiallywork on some type of partnership
with you.
Can we get on the phone andtalk about it?
(28:56):
And persons?
Yeah, love to.
And you're the exact type ofperson that we want to do business
with as people.
They'll get so hung up on what.
I want to see your postcard.
What does your postcard say?
And I said, listen, I'll sharemine with you.
But I'm going to tell you this.
If you just mail somethingthat says, hey, I drove by your house
today.
It looks like it's a littlebit neglected.
(29:17):
What are you thinking aboutdoing with it?
You're so far ahead of theperson that's thinking, that's perfecting
the postcard you're mailing.
Get it in there and start a conversation.
What should I name my LLC?
What?
Stature?
That's right, it doesn't matter.
My first LLCs were named aftermy dogs, my kids, what else?
Basically my home address thatI grew the street I grew up on.
(29:40):
Who cares?
Here's one for you.
When I got started, I didn'tknow how to form an llc.
And remember.
Yeah, that was pre social media.
Oh yeah, it was.
It was courses in binders andAOL chat rooms.
I didn't know how to form anllc, but I wasn't going to wait until
I knew.
I started buying houses andguess what?
They were bought in WilliamTingle's name.
How stupid is that?
(30:01):
But I had four houses before Iever had an llc.
Because here's the thing,Chris, and you know this, if you
don't have anything to protect.
Yeah, doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter though.
That's the thing.
I see people creating allthese multi level when they're going
to buy their first propertyand I'm like it's overkill.
Or they buy it in their nameand want to transfer to llc.
(30:23):
And I'm like any good attorneywill pierce that like a warm piece
of butter.
But yeah, no, it's the onething that I'll say that I see newer
investors make which to tag upalong with what you said about the
analysis paralysis part isthey go to learn everything and then
once they think they doeverything, they take everything
they learned and throw it awayand cut corners and not pay the right
(30:47):
title company or think thatthey're being smarter than somebody
else and doing something thatis completely just mind blowing and
contradictory to everythingthey were taught and learned and
then realize after the dealimplodes like, oh, I probably should
have done it that way.
Yeah, for sure.
(31:07):
So I can't tell you like inthe note space how many people buy
loans without running a title report.
Oh man.
And listen, I've heardteachers now say teachers.
Yeah.
Hey, you can buy sub 2.
You don't need a title report,you're getting a deed.
You're.
Listen, we had a deal, I'mtelling you.
And this was one of those deals.
This was a couple of weeks agoactually the long story.
(31:29):
But the person on the mortgagegot the loan for their son and daughter
in law.
So the son and daughter in lawcould live in the house.
Son got a divorce.
Daughter in law had beenliving in the house, not making the
mortgage.
But she agreed to sell us thehouse for $10,000 cash to her subject
to the mortgage.
And she had a 2.8% mortgage.
(31:50):
Man, I'm telling you, I was drooling.
This was a great house.
There was one loan modification.
We knew she bought it for 235,five years ago.
House is worth about 400 nowin Great condition.
Need a little bit of cleaning up.
Title search comes back.
Not only is IRS loan mod,there's a set, there's one for 12,000,
(32:11):
then there's one for 60,000that not only did they put that 60
on the back end of the loan,they also modified the terms of the
first mortgage.
Now the first mortgage isn't2.8% anymore, it's 7.15%.
And you know that deal I wentfrom drool into I'm sorry, I can't
help you.
This just won't work.
So yeah, we had somebody.
(32:32):
So we again we know enoughabout sub 2 to get ourselves in trouble
but we typically don't run itas part of our business.
We had somebody reach out tous recently in California that wanted
to do something that they had.
We're talking it was like a $3million property is claiming that
it was only like 800,000 owedon it and it was a low interest rate
(32:55):
and was trying to figuresomething out and sell it at steep
discount or come up withsomething that could work.
And we basically said hey, doyou have title?
No, I haven't run anything andso forth but not it should come up.
So we had somebody justquickly look and run us kind of a
soft title report on it.
Like guy's got a 6 milliondollar IRS lien on the property,
(33:16):
you know like ah, yeah, that'snot gonna, that's gonna, that's gonna
kill every single deal.
Oh and by the way, there's a,a list pendant filed on the first
that you haven't paid it intwo years.
Oh yeah, I forgot that part ofthe story too.
It's funny what sellers willforget sometimes I've had them forget
about second mortgages andother things.
It's just.
Oh yeah, I remember that now.
(33:36):
Oh yeah.
So gotta have title report.
So as we wrap up, I'll do aquick lightning round, I'll ask you
three quick questions.
First one, what's one wordthat you would describe the current
real estate market changing?
Yep, 100% agree with that.
So.
Oh, definitely is in many aspects.
(33:59):
So what's one thing you'vechanged about your mind, your philosophy
or business about in the last year?
Rentals.
I've been a no rental guy for15 years.
And Jody and I have justrecently decided for a couple of
reasons, tax reasons and justgetting older reasons that having
a few well chosen, adding justa couple every year might be a good
(34:20):
idea now.
Yep.
Okay.
And one person besides Carltonyou'd thank for your success.
If I need to be specific, Iwould say Bill Braunschick.
Okay.
Yep.
He's really after Carlton Sheets.
He was my next teacher.
Okay.
Taught me a lot of stuff.
We actually do events togethertoday, so I'm really fortunate.
(34:41):
Okay.
The old gurus.
Gurus have it.
It has a bad name now becausethere's so many what I call new.
They haven't been around longenough to be gurus.
But the old guys, man, if itweren't for them, I'd be flipping
hamburgers.
Yeah, I know.
Bill's got a lot of greateducation content.
Is he attorney?
He is.
(35:01):
He has a title company inColorado and closes deals for some
of my students in Colorado.
Yep.
So great.
William, thanks for coming on today.
If people want to reach out,learn more about you.
I know you just released the book.
You've got a coaching class.
Why don't you tell peopleabout the book, the coaching, and
then how people can reach outto you?
(35:21):
Sure.
The best way to find me andget to know me is on my YouTube channel
at sub2tv.com su b the numbertwo tv.com and we've got about a
thousand videos over thereright now.
Teach you a whole bunch of stuff.
Won't cost you anything, butyou can check out the book at 12houseblueprint
book.com12houseblueprintbook.com and it's just really the
(35:45):
model that Jody and I use inour business.
Buying 12 houses a year once a month.
Yeah.
Create an awesome lifestyle.
So, yeah, check that out.
And we coach some people.
So go check out the YouTube channel.
See if you like me.
And if you do, there's plentyof links over there that'll get you
to where we can teach you.
William, thanks for coming on today.
Always a pleasure and lookforward to seeing you in the near
(36:08):
future.
Thanks for having me, Chris.
I'm excited about your.
Your event and being there.
Oh, great.
Thank you all.
Thanks for joining me on thisepisode of the Paper Trail.
I hope today's insights helpyou sharpen your note investing strategies.
If you found value in thisconversation, subscribe, leave a
review and share it withfellow investors.
(36:30):
I'm Chris Sevy reminding youto keep doing the work, trust the
process, and always follow thepaper trail.
Until next time.
Welcome to the Paper Trailwhere we follow the journey, my journey
through the world of a CEO ofa mortgage note fund.
I'm Chris 70 and after yearsof buying, managing and selling notes
with 70 investments, I'm hereto share the real stories behind
the deals.
What went right, what wentwrong, and what I wish I knew earlier.
(01:04):
From non performing loans toseller financing to private lending,
this show is about more thanstrategies, about growing your business,
learning to follow the papertrail and doing the due diligence
that separates the pros fromthe rest.
Now let's hit the trail running.
(01:26):
Welcome back to anotherepisode of the Paper Trail podcast.
I am your host, Chris 70.
Today I got to speak withWilliam Tingle.
William has been investing inreal estate pretty much forever.
He is specific into creativefinancing and subject to investing.
(01:47):
But one of the things that Iloved the moment I met William was
there are people out there whotake what he does and simplify it
or make it seem like you cando this with your eyes closed and
also charge people a ton ofmoney to learn this process.
William is like me, no frills,no bs, calls it like he sees it and
(02:14):
really gets people educated onit and actually has a like a $7 coaching
program.
He also recently just wrote abook called the 12 House Blueprint
which again I recommend foreverybody on how to generate revenue
for buying basically a house amonth or a house a year.
(02:37):
So always have a great timespeaking with William.
I hope you enjoy this episodewhere we talk about what he is going
to bring for value at thePaper Trail conference.
So hope you enjoy and lookforward to catching the next episode.
William, how are you doingtoday, man?
(02:59):
I am doing fantastic.
How about you?
I am doing pretty good.
As I mentioned, free recording.
It's been a crazy busy day andmy life has just been crazy busy
lately.
But hey, being anentrepreneur, running a business,
it's.
That's what you got to expectfrom it.
So.
That's exactly right.
Something different every day.
Exactly.
Which we love what we do andwhich rolls into that first question
(03:21):
that I always ask people islet's start with your story.
How'd you get investing in thefirst place?
Oh boy.
Let's see.
Okay, so I've got a story likea lot of real estate investors entreprene.
I was career that I just fell into.
I was a restaurant district manager.
I worked 70 hours a week.
(03:42):
I was miserable.
I never saw my family.
And I said there's got to besomething better than this.
And one night as it wouldhappen, I was up it was about 2 in
the morning.
I was watching TV, flippingchannels, and there was Carlton Sheets.
And a lot of people, youngerpeople won't remember Carlton, but
he was one of the original gurus.
He sold a late night TVinfomercial real estate course called
(04:05):
no Down Payment.
And he had a bunch of hisstudents on there and that had two
brain cells.
And I said, if those guys cando it, I can do it too.
And I ordered it.
And the course showed up a fewweeks later.
And I just did what he said to do.
I actually opened all of thevolumes and read them and took action.
And I bought my first houseabout 30 days later.
(04:27):
And then I bought another and another.
And I said, whoa, this mightreally work.
And so I said, okay, I needsome goals.
And I said, I want to quit myjob in a year.
And I bought 24 houses in 12 months.
Wow.
And I quit my job.
So that's how I got started.
Wow.
Now, were you buying thosemostly with no money down or at the
(04:51):
time.
Or X or Man, Carl Sheetstaught you to be creative.
Now, my first house that Ibought, I actually bought it with
a small local bank.
They funded it.
A guy put me onto him and hesaid, if you buy it cheap enough,
they'll fund the whole thing.
So I went in there with myCarlton Sheets course under my arm
and I sat across the desk fromthis old codger that was the president
(05:11):
of the bank.
And I said, I want to be areal estate investor.
And he rocked back in hischair and he said, okay, bring me
a deal and we'll see.
So I brought him a deal acouple weeks later.
And he said, all right, you'regoing to have to have some skin in
the game.
And I said, wait a minute.
My course said I didn't haveto have anything down.
And he said, I don't know whatit said, but you're new and you're
(05:32):
not tested.
You're going to have to havesome money.
And I thought.
And I said, okay, how about this?
What if I put a $5,000 CD inyour bank and you hold that as collateral?
That do instead of a down payment?
And he said, okay.
So I borrowed $5,000 off acredit card and opened a CD at his
(05:53):
bank, and he funded that full thing.
I walked out of closing with acheck for $813.
And I said, man, I thought,man, this stuff really works.
Well, it's interesting justagain, as we hear this, because a
few things.
One is your last name's notRockefeller, so it's not like you
had top bags of money behind you.
(06:14):
It's, oh, you go buy 24 homes.
Yeah.
Because you probably came from money.
Sounds like basically youliterally took a credit card advance,
which I typically tell people,don't ever do that, please.
Unless you're fiscallyresponsible and started buying property
with it.
And basically by followingsomebody's blueprint, which everybody
else could have, you probablyordered a flowbe, maybe that time
(06:37):
right after it on the infomercial.
But, you know, the pointbeing, for people listening or watching
is a lot of us out there, you did.
And we'll get into that later.
But many people out thereprovide exactly what it is you need
to do to be successful orstart to get some traction.
(06:58):
And you just got to take thetime and focus.
That's exactly right.
And I'll tell you this, and Iused to tell my wife this, and she
experienced it firsthand withthe first house we bought when we
moved to northwest Arkansas.
I said, I have bought no lessthan half a dozen properties over
the years that had a CarltonSheets course in a clause in a bedroom
closet.
(07:19):
And without fail, the firstvolume, because there's three or
four volumes, the first volumewas open, but the rest of them were
still in shrink wrap.
That.
That is an absolute.
You can count them.
And the first house we boughthere had a Carlton Sheets course
in the box.
It sure did.
(07:39):
So you got the solution right there.
But most people just won'tfollow through.
They see something, they hit aroadblock, and instead of saying,
how can I get past this?
How can I get.
How can I make this work?
They go, oh, this is too hard.
Yep.
So let's dive a little bit deeper.
What's something about yourjourney that a lot of people may
not know about you?
(08:00):
I don't know if this wasduring the journey, but something
a lot of people don't knowabout me is that I quit school in
the ninth grade.
So obviously I didn't havemoney, and I don't have a lot of
education either.
So you don't have to havemoney, and you certainly don't have
to have a lot of formal education.
So you weren't the Harvardguy, you weren't the Rockefeller,
just ordinary guy who went anddid it.
(08:23):
And today, again, written abook, has a course, is successful,
just goes to show.
Boils really down.
Had this conversation with myson the other day.
You should be thankful aboutthe intelligence that you have, but
it only gets you to a certain spot.
Hard work and grit is whatmakes, in my mind, the haves from
(08:46):
the have nots.
So I agree.
I totally agree.
And most of the students I'vemet in my investing and my teaching,
the tougher they were, thelower the point they were at.
It increases their chances ofbeing successful.
People that have it too easy,that have too good a paying job,
or they don't hate their jobenough, it's harder for them to make
(09:06):
that break.
But, man, when you hate whereyou work and you're barely getting
by.
And I looked like 95% of thepeople in this country do, I was
probably two or threepaychecks away from living in the
street, and I made 70 grand ayear in 1999.
And that wasn't bad money.
But still, I spent what I made.
I was not a good steward ofwhat I had.
Most people aren't.
(09:28):
And as a result, we charged upChristmas gifts and we paid them
off with a tax refund in January.
And I know a lot of peoplethat do that.
And I look at again myself andpeople who've heard my story.
I left a cushy corner officemaking roughly quarter million, whatever
dollars a year, loving my jobto do what I do today.
(09:48):
And a lot of people will lookat me and say, you're fricking nuts.
You had a great job, you, jobsecurity, making great money.
I was executive in the companyand it's, yeah, I'm going to throw
all that away to go start myown company.
And you know what?
Best decision I ever made, andprobably like everyone else, wish
I would have done it 10 years earlier.
But like you said, you getcaught in that position of you're
(10:10):
so comfortable with, withwhere you're at, that it's like,
why do I need, why should Iconsider doing something?
And I've talked about this onother podcasts about why I did that.
But it's hard.
And like you said, the easierpeople have it, the harder it is
for them to do something.
It's harder for them to makethat change.
They're afraid.
(10:30):
And then you're surrounded bypeople saying what you just said.
You're crazy.
When you got your family andeverybody that you go to church with
or you socialize with, saying, what?
What are you doing?
So it's tough.
Yeah.
Especially again, we're closein age that we come from the, the
generation of.
(10:51):
A lot of times it's like yougo get a W2 and save in your 401k
and that's what you should dofor 40 years before you retire.
And that's the path that theyteach you when we were younger.
It's, this is what you shouldbe doing and it brainwashes you that
if you want to do something else.
I remember my first job offer.
I didn't like the offer and Ididn't take it.
(11:12):
And I was out of just, it wasin between, like I technically graduated
yet and all my friends alreadyhad offers and I told my parents,
I'm not going to accept this.
Like you're nuts.
It's a job, just start with something.
I'm like, I think something better.
And then something much bettercame on.
And at this time I started outCollege making 35 grand a year 25,
30 years ago, which back thenwas like rich.
(11:34):
Now, whole different story today.
But yeah.
So let's dive a little bitmore about you, your investment process
philosophy.
What is your investment philosophy?
If you can describe in one ortwo sentences and how did you come
about with that philosophy?
I think part of the reasonthat I have the one that I have is
(11:55):
because most of the sellersthat I deal with now, real estate
investors, we're generally notpaying retail for houses.
And in fact the name of ourinvestment company is Plan B.
Okay, We're Plan B propertiesbecause we're not most people's plan
A, but because most of thepeople that I deal with are under
(12:16):
financial stress or inforeclosure or something along those
lines.
I think it's really importantand this is what I teach my students.
You have to approach yoursellers first with a heart to help
and care about their needs andwhat you can get for them before
the deal.
In fact, that's our approachwith people in foreclosure is listen,
(12:38):
we don't even mention buyingtheir property.
I doorknock people inforeclosure and the first thing that
they hear from me is, hey, I'mhere to see if there's any way I
can help you.
And this shock on their faceand how can you help me?
What are you looking to do?
Do you want to keep your homeor do you want to sell your property?
I'd like to stay.
Okay.
(12:58):
Have you talked to your lender?
No.
Because a lot of them haven't.
They're scared, they'reashamed, they're embarrassed.
And as a non performing noteholder, trust me, it's when we do
that same thing, people arelike, oh, I was always too afraid.
And I try and educate people.
The sooner you can startconversations, the better off you
are versus waiting and.
The more options are availableto you.
(13:19):
But that's the first thing wesay, okay, let's go sit down and
pick up the phone and callyour lender and see what programs
are available for you to saveyour home.
And we've helped countlesspeople stay in their house.
We never bought their house.
We helped them.
We said congratulations, bestof luck and didn't charge them a
penny to help them.
Now if they can't qualify forany programs, if they still don't
(13:42):
have a job, if they've losttheir job and that's the problem,
then we'll talk to them aboutselling their home in a way that'll
save their credit, get themsome cash to start over.
But that's what I always say.
The first thing we do, weapproach a seller with a heart to
help.
How can we provide what they need?
And if we buy the house, makea deal, that works for us too.
(14:03):
Yeah, We've known each otherfor a while and if I were to describe
everything about you in oneword, I would say genuine.
And you know what I mean bythat for people listening is William
is very genuine in everythingthat he does and says and in the
world that he plays in withsome of the sub 2 stuff, there's
(14:25):
a lot of people who are notgenuine and will pretend that they
want to help a homeowner indistress and they're really just
trying to help themselves.
And it can sometimes give theindustry a bad name.
There's certain states thatcan't even now communicate with borrowers
in pre foreclosure because ofso many different scams that have
(14:46):
been out there.
So it's something that, youknow, I hear it's refreshing because
talk about the paper trailconference in a minute and having
you part of this event.
But the people I wanted tobring and speak at this event are
the people who.
Two things.
One is they're genuine, theyhave integrity, they're honest and
(15:07):
they actually are doing whatthey, they teach people.
There's so many people todaywho have a course.
If people not are justlistening, I'm air quoting right
now on an investment strategythat they have never even implemented
or they did it for one or twotimes and next thing you know they're
like writing a book ortraining course on how to do something
(15:30):
because they did it once.
That's true.
It's really, given what we do,a bad name as investors.
I'm telling you it's going toget tough.
It's going to get, it's bad now.
It's so much different thanwhen I got started and it's going
to get worse.
Yeah.
It continues to get worse.
And interestingly enough, Ithink the Internet is a good thing
and a bad thing.
(15:50):
And it's great because there'sso much information.
It's very easy to, as aninvestor, invest anywhere where.
When I bought my first housein 2001, I was literally going to
the real estate office to lookat the flyers for homes or in a newspaper.
For what?
Open houses.
Because Internet, I think, wasaround, but it really wasn't around.
And then from that standpoint.
(16:12):
But yeah, it's been someinteresting changes over the years,
to say the least.
It sure has.
I tell these guys all thetime, y' all don't know how lucky
y' all have it.
You've got Zillow.
And back when I got started,there wasn't social Media, there
wasn't YouTube.
There were no videos to watchwhen you got these chat rooms.
And you'd ask a question andpray that somebody that was one of
(16:32):
the top dogs would answer itfor you.
And we used to drive fordollars and then go to the tax office
once a week and look up allthe addresses.
So mail to people.
And now it's just at yourfingertips, so it's so much easier.
I'm laughing because I'm like.
I'd be in a chat room orsomething listening or watching something,
but then my sister would pickup the phone, which would immediately
disconnect the AOL connection,and then she needed the phone so
(16:56):
you couldn't get back on, andthen you miss whatever it is you're
trying to do.
Man, so good.
My kids will never know.
Never understand.
Without spoiling your thunder,we have you speaking at the conference.
What's one thing you'd likefor the people attending to either
learn or think differentlyabout creative finance and subject
(17:16):
to.
After hearing you talk.
Yeah, it's interesting, and wejust got through talking about this,
but the main thing I wantpeople to understand is that there's
a couple of things.
Number one, creative finance,and especially Subject to, isn't
always about taking advantageof sellers or abusing them in some
way.
You can take over payments ona property and your seller be perfectly
(17:39):
happy with it and have areally good outcome.
And secondly, it's just thatwe're in such a hustle culture now,
especially when it comes toreal estate and real estate training.
That's the big thing, man.
I buy 30 houses a month, blah,blah, blah.
And I've been teaching foryears because I do this and I understand
it.
(18:00):
A few chosen deals a year willset you free and let you live the
lifestyle that you want.
That's really what I wantpeople to understand that subject
to isn't bad, doesn't have tobe bad, and that you don't have to
work a job in investing.
You can really have a goodlifestyle, travel, do what you want
(18:21):
to do.
And I know this because I do it.
So I was going to say you'retraveling, and I know you traveled
and moved around.
And I think some people get tothe point of trying to count too
many doors and they.
It's the male ego, especiallyof counting doors.
And I remember in college Iwas in fraternity and you always
(18:43):
joke, someone ask, oh, comparehow many beers somebody could drink
in a night.
One time someone's.
Yeah, he's.
Boys count, men drink.
And similar.
Like real estate in the senseof the big boys in the industry.
They're not counting how manydoors they have.
They're just bury their headsdown and getting the work done.
If I asked you probably, howmany properties have you owned in
(19:06):
your career and so forth?
Most people I know have anidea, but they're like, you know,
I don't have that exact number.
Like, when people ask how manynotes I've bought, I've had 600 on
my slide for the last year ofhow many notes I bought, I'm like,
yeah, it's probably 700 orwhatnot or like in my fund.
I'm like, I think I got 85 to90 right now.
(19:26):
I could tell.
I know a lot about our loans,but I don't keep track of.
It's not a competition for me.
Of, oh, my ego boost.
And it's the same thing withyou from what I've seen.
Right?
Yeah, for sure.
I could.
There's no way I could tellyou how many houses we bought over
26 years.
It's just not that important.
I can tell you, you know, thatthey're profitable.
(19:46):
Because that certainty.
That's what I call it,certainty of profit.
Yeah, I see people, man.
I got about three deals thismonth and they'll make some really
stupid decisions to meet that number.
I'm not.
I want it.
My goal is always to buy onehouse a month.
And what if I miss this month?
It's okay.
Yeah.
Now, you've worked with alltypes of people, investors.
(20:09):
What's one thing.
And again, you mentionedCarlton and so forth, you know, clearly
a mentor to you in that senseof things.
What did you think made him orsomebody else great, in your opinion,
or somebody to look up to orreally admire or pivot, figure out
what they did and follow youknow what I.
Really loved about Carlton Sheets?
And I think to this day, ofcourse, Carlton's been dead for several
(20:31):
years.
He was a bucket list thing for me.
I wanted to meet him, but Iwaited too late.
One of the really great thingsabout his course was now it was an
inch deep and 10 miles wide.
It covered a lot of stuff, butnot very in depth.
But it was always abouttreating the seller fairly and doing
ethical deals.
You didn't see any stuff inthere about taking shortcuts or doing
(20:55):
this or doing that that youhear about these days.
So from that standpoint, I'mreally glad I got my start with that
because he was all aboutethical investing.
And I think that's really important.
You make a ton of money inthis business and you don't have
to hurt anybody to do it.
Yep.
That 100%.
You don't.
(21:15):
Again, it's.
You can do the right thing andstill be very profitable in this
business.
You certainly can.
And I can give you.
If you don't mind, I'll giveyou a quick example of the.
Yeah, but no, I'd love to.
Yeah, we just closed on itlast week and this guy called us
off of our radio ad.
That's one of the marketingthings we do, is radio.
And he lived, actually livedabout 10 minutes from me.
(21:36):
It was a great little threebedroom, two bath brick home that
he had bought three years ago.
His dad died a couple ofmonths ago.
He's in a life transition thing.
He and his dad were very close.
His dad lived in Hot Springs,which is a few hours from us, and
he wants to move back to that area.
And he just wanted out fromunder that mortgage payment.
(21:56):
I had a great loan, a 4%mortgage, a really good payment on
the house.
He owed $214,000 on a $300,000 house.
He could have listed and soldthat house for 300.
He'd have probably paid 30,000in agents fees, closing cost, and
walked away with 50,000 or so.
And he said, listen, he said,I know I've got some equity in this
(22:18):
house.
I just want to get back home.
I want certainty.
And when we're going to close,I don't want to have to wait around
and mess around.
And I just want it gone.
And I said, you just want tosell it for what you owe on it?
And he said, if I can get itdone on the closing date, that I
want to close.
Yes.
And of course, we took overthe payments on that house and he
moved back home.
And that guy gave me 30%equity in that property.
(22:42):
But he was happy.
We were certainly happy.
If he'd asked for money, Iwould have written him a check.
But he said, listen, he said,I just want it gone.
So that's what we did.
So he was happy.
Are you going to now put awrap on it?
Are you going to rent it outor what's the that.
That's exactly what we'regoing to do.
We're going to make someoneelse a homeowner that couldn't buy
(23:03):
with a bank.
We'll get probably 20,000 downon that house.
We'll finance them.
We'll go to a title companyfor closing.
We don't charge points, wedon't charge junk fees.
They pay 750 bucks which isthe title agent's fee to close it.
All of their 20,000, exceptfor that 750 will go toward their
down payment and then we'llfinance them at current bank rates
(23:25):
about 7%.
So it's a good deal for everybody.
Yeah, it's.
That's one thing that wepreach a lot is what we do.
And again we focus on the nonperforming note side of things.
But everyone thinks everythinghas to be a net sum zero of if somebody
wins, somebody go lose.
There's so many situationslike this one here that you've got
three winners in this thing.
The original seller who gotout from under it and he's okay with
(23:49):
giving up a little bit of thepiece of the pie because again, it's
peace of mind of gettingclosed by a certain date.
You get the property at slightdiscounts and then you can put also
a homeowner in that propertythat now gives you a down payment
which is cash and thenarbitrage that wrap with the cash
flow.
And somebody's buying a housethat may not.
They may not have gotten froma bank that is getting it at bank
(24:11):
today's rates.
So everybody wins.
That's right.
It's.
You don't have to charge people.
And listen, I'm out there too.
I hear the stuff that's taughtand everything in the marketplace
too.
There are people out therethat'll finance somebody at 11, 12%,
whatever the law will allow.
And it's just not necessary.
I want my buyer to be able toafford that house and to stay for
(24:33):
a really long time.
Because every month that theystay in that house, I'm going to
make about 500 bucks in cash flow.
And if they stay for threeyears or five years or 10 years,
I'm still making money.
Yep.
It's interesting you mentioned that.
Because if you jump that rate,okay, Maybe it adds 100 or $150 a
month.
And people like that adds upover time and hits me on in the rental
(24:57):
side of things sometimes whereI'll go.
We've got a rental unit thatrents for about 1750.
And I remember one time whenwe were 1600, we were going to raise
the rent to 1650 and thepeople really came back and said,
hey, can you just keep it at1600 for one more year?
Just an asset and great tenantand so forth.
Now, if not, there's one ofthe partners had lost their job,
(25:18):
so they're a little tight oncash, but they're back work and they're
just trying to.
And my wife and I talk aboutlike, yeah, we're going to keep them
at 1600 because for an extra$50 a month, if they move out, it's
going to take me a month toget somebody in.
So I'm losing 1600 to get.
How long is it going to takeme to get that $1600 back?
It's going to take me years.
Like, why?
Sometimes trying to scrapethat last dollar from everybody doesn't
(25:43):
always get you the win.
Exactly.
Exactly what you're talking about.
You're talking about 600 extradollars a year.
And if they moved out, you'dhave at least a month of vacancy.
You probably have to do alittle bit of freshening up for your
next tenant.
That's probably anotherthousand, $2,000.
It's just not worth it if yougot a good person in your house that
(26:03):
pays you every month.
So what if that rent's just alittle bit lower than the market?
Oh, yeah.
And it's Montgomery County,Maryland, so you don't get anything
done for a thousand.
Would have cost 5,000.
Just have somebody blow theirnose inside the place, too.
Yeah, no, you're 100% right.
So we talk about some of thethings we are sharing right now,
and I'll say some of themistakes that we see people making
(26:24):
trying to scrape the last dol.
Trying to take advantage.
What's another mistake newerinvestors make and how do you try
and help to avoid them?
And I know we don't have fourhours to finish recording this because
William and I are in some ofthe same Facebook groups and some
of the stuff that we just seeand people do is just.
(26:46):
I just like, my mind implodesof what we've seen people do that
as a new investor just makesyou cringe because they either got
very bad coaching or I don'tknow, they just are too gung ho.
I'll let you share a few.
The main thing for newinvestors to me is just the ones
(27:10):
that just overthink everydetail and think they have to know
every single thing before theyget started.
Get out there and start havingsome conversations with people.
For example, the deal I justshared with you.
I answered the phone, hecalled me from an ad.
He could have called me from abandit sign or anything else.
I had a conversation with him.
He told me the offer.
(27:30):
He told me, I just want to getrid of this house.
He basically wrote thecontract for me.
Hire someone or get a localmentor, somebody at your RIA that
does what you want to do andhave them there on speed dial.
If you didn't know anythingand you had a conversation with Curtis,
that was my seller, anyonecould have called me and said, listen,
(27:51):
I'm sitting here talking to Curtis.
He just wants to get rid ofhis house.
He's willing to let me takeover the payments.
What do I need to do next?
I could have stepped themthrough anything.
And a lot of local mentorscould do that as well.
Don't wait until you knoweverything, because you never will.
I learn stuff every day.
Oh, I have a call tomorrowwith a new client vendor that I sent
over.
(28:11):
Some stuff today that we'regoing to be discussing.
And I'm like, you know,talking to my team.
Like, I have zero idea how anyof this works.
So I'm going to be on the call tomorrow.
And basically the first thingis, can you just make sure and walk
me through, you know, what acertain aspect of this.
So I understand it because Ithink I conceptualize and grasp it
(28:34):
as an engineer.
Like, you're trying to put allthe pieces and parts together, overthink
it.
And I'm like, just explain itto me.
And I know some people wouldbasically like.
They would have gone andstudied what were the conversation
for six months and would neverpicked up the phone and called this
person and said, hey, I seeyou do this.
I would love to potentiallywork on some type of partnership
with you.
Can we get on the phone andtalk about it?
(28:56):
And persons?
Yeah, love to.
And you're the exact type ofperson that we want to do business
with as people.
They'll get so hung up on what.
I want to see your postcard.
What does your postcard say?
And I said, listen, I'll sharemine with you.
But I'm going to tell you this.
If you just mail somethingthat says, hey, I drove by your house
today.
It looks like it's a littlebit neglected.
(29:17):
What are you thinking aboutdoing with it?
You're so far ahead of theperson that's thinking, that's perfecting
the postcard you're mailing.
Get it in there and start a conversation.
What should I name my LLC?
What?
Stature?
That's right, it doesn't matter.
My first LLCs were named aftermy dogs, my kids, what else?
Basically my home address thatI grew the street I grew up on.
(29:40):
Who cares?
Here's one for you.
When I got started, I didn'tknow how to form an llc.
And remember.
Yeah, that was pre social media.
Oh yeah, it was.
It was courses in binders andAOL chat rooms.
I didn't know how to form anllc, but I wasn't going to wait until
I knew.
I started buying houses andguess what?
They were bought in WilliamTingle's name.
How stupid is that?
(30:01):
But I had four houses before Iever had an llc.
Because here's the thing,Chris, and you know this, if you
don't have anything to protect.
Yeah, doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter though.
That's the thing.
I see people creating allthese multi level when they're going
to buy their first propertyand I'm like it's overkill.
Or they buy it in their nameand want to transfer to llc.
(30:23):
And I'm like any good attorneywill pierce that like a warm piece
of butter.
But yeah, no, it's the onething that I'll say that I see newer
investors make which to tag upalong with what you said about the
analysis paralysis part isthey go to learn everything and then
once they think they doeverything, they take everything
they learned and throw it awayand cut corners and not pay the right
(30:47):
title company or think thatthey're being smarter than somebody
else and doing something thatis completely just mind blowing and
contradictory to everythingthey were taught and learned and
then realize after the dealimplodes like, oh, I probably should
have done it that way.
Yeah, for sure.
(31:07):
So I can't tell you like inthe note space how many people buy
loans without running a title report.
Oh man.
And listen, I've heardteachers now say teachers.
Yeah.
Hey, you can buy sub 2.
You don't need a title report,you're getting a deed.
You're.
Listen, we had a deal, I'mtelling you.
And this was one of those deals.
This was a couple of weeks agoactually the long story.
(31:29):
But the person on the mortgagegot the loan for their son and daughter
in law.
So the son and daughter in lawcould live in the house.
Son got a divorce.
Daughter in law had beenliving in the house, not making the
mortgage.
But she agreed to sell us thehouse for $10,000 cash to her subject
to the mortgage.
And she had a 2.8% mortgage.
(31:50):
Man, I'm telling you, I was drooling.
This was a great house.
There was one loan modification.
We knew she bought it for 235,five years ago.
House is worth about 400 nowin Great condition.
Need a little bit of cleaning up.
Title search comes back.
Not only is IRS loan mod,there's a set, there's one for 12,000,
(32:11):
then there's one for 60,000that not only did they put that 60
on the back end of the loan,they also modified the terms of the
first mortgage.
Now the first mortgage isn't2.8% anymore, it's 7.15%.
And you know that deal I wentfrom drool into I'm sorry, I can't
help you.
This just won't work.
So yeah, we had somebody.
(32:32):
So we again we know enoughabout sub 2 to get ourselves in trouble
but we typically don't run itas part of our business.
We had somebody reach out tous recently in California that wanted
to do something that they had.
We're talking it was like a $3million property is claiming that
it was only like 800,000 owedon it and it was a low interest rate
(32:55):
and was trying to figuresomething out and sell it at steep
discount or come up withsomething that could work.
And we basically said hey, doyou have title?
No, I haven't run anything andso forth but not it should come up.
So we had somebody justquickly look and run us kind of a
soft title report on it.
Like guy's got a 6 milliondollar IRS lien on the property,
(33:16):
you know like ah, yeah, that'snot gonna, that's gonna, that's gonna
kill every single deal.
Oh and by the way, there's a,a list pendant filed on the first
that you haven't paid it intwo years.
Oh yeah, I forgot that part ofthe story too.
It's funny what sellers willforget sometimes I've had them forget
about second mortgages andother things.
It's just.
Oh yeah, I remember that now.
(33:36):
Oh yeah.
So gotta have title report.
So as we wrap up, I'll do aquick lightning round, I'll ask you
three quick questions.
First one, what's one wordthat you would describe the current
real estate market changing?
Yep, 100% agree with that.
So.
Oh, definitely is in many aspects.
(33:59):
So what's one thing you'vechanged about your mind, your philosophy
or business about in the last year?
Rentals.
I've been a no rental guy for15 years.
And Jody and I have justrecently decided for a couple of
reasons, tax reasons and justgetting older reasons that having
a few well chosen, adding justa couple every year might be a good
(34:20):
idea now.
Yep.
Okay.
And one person besides Carltonyou'd thank for your success.
If I need to be specific, Iwould say Bill Braunschick.
Okay.
Yep.
He's really after Carlton Sheets.
He was my next teacher.
Okay.
Taught me a lot of stuff.
We actually do events togethertoday, so I'm really fortunate.
(34:41):
Okay.
The old gurus.
Gurus have it.
It has a bad name now becausethere's so many what I call new.
They haven't been around longenough to be gurus.
But the old guys, man, if itweren't for them, I'd be flipping
hamburgers.
Yeah, I know.
Bill's got a lot of greateducation content.
Is he attorney?
He is.
(35:01):
He has a title company inColorado and closes deals for some
of my students in Colorado.
Yep.
So great.
William, thanks for coming on today.
If people want to reach out,learn more about you.
I know you just released the book.
You've got a coaching class.
Why don't you tell peopleabout the book, the coaching, and
then how people can reach outto you?
(35:21):
Sure.
The best way to find me andget to know me is on my YouTube channel
at sub2tv.com su b the numbertwo tv.com and we've got about a
thousand videos over thereright now.
Teach you a whole bunch of stuff.
Won't cost you anything, butyou can check out the book at 12houseblueprint
book.com12houseblueprintbook.com and it's just really the
(35:45):
model that Jody and I use inour business.
Buying 12 houses a year once a month.
Yeah.
Create an awesome lifestyle.
So, yeah, check that out.
And we coach some people.
So go check out the YouTube channel.
See if you like me.
And if you do, there's plentyof links over there that'll get you
to where we can teach you.
William, thanks for coming on today.
Always a pleasure and lookforward to seeing you in the near
(36:08):
future.
Thanks for having me, Chris.
I'm excited about your.
Your event and being there.
Oh, great.
Thank you all.
Thanks for joining me on thisepisode of the Paper Trail.
I hope today's insights helpyou sharpen your note investing strategies.
If you found value in thisconversation, subscribe, leave a
review and share it withfellow investors.
(36:30):
I'm Chris Sevy reminding youto keep doing the work, trust the
process, and always follow thepaper trail.
Until next time.
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