n this episode of the Paper Trail Podcast, we speak with Chalea Grant of Mountain West Ranches, a family-owned land investment and note company on the West Coast, and a sponsor of the Paper Trail Note Conference. Chalea shares how his family has been building trust with investors since 1990, using seller financing and a fully in-house process to ensure quality, transparency, and strong returns.
From navigating investor concerns and scams to providing recourse guarantees on land notes, Chalea reveals what makes Mountain West Ranches a standout in the land investment space. Investors will learn why having everything in-house, maintaining detailed documentation, and prioritizing long-term relationships leads to a reliable, stress-free investment experience.
Resources & Contact:
- Website: mwranches.com/land-note
- Email: chale@mwranches.com
Join Chalea and other industry leaders at the Paper Trail Note Conference, September 18–20, in Chandler, AZ. Register Here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:44):
Welcome everybody to anotherepisode of the Paper Trail podcast.
Today I have Chalet Grant withMountain West Ranches who is a land
investment company out on thewest coast and also a sponsor at
the Paper Trail conference.
How are you today?
(01:05):
I'm doing really good.
Super excited to talk with youand tell you a little bit about what
we do.
So yeah, I'm excited.
Thank you for having me.
So I'm type person who justlikes to roll up our sleeves and
dive right into it.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about Mountain West Ranches,
what you do and how you gotinvolved in this avenue of business.
(01:28):
Yeah, so I've been working,it's a family owned business.
That's biggest piece probablythat we like to tell people and it's
just a small business, butI've been working for the company
since I was 15 years.
Company is basically like apart of my DNA because it's been
around since 1990, the yearbefore I was born.
(01:48):
So I've been hearing my dad,he's the owner of the company, I've
been hearing him talk aboutthis since I was born.
So very, very passionate aboutour company and what we do.
The way it started, it was mygrandpa, he went out to the tax sale,
bought some lots for super cheap.
He went in and you know, madesure there was a road to get into
(02:08):
the lot, graded out a nicelittle pad, you know, to fit an RV
and just started selling lotsthat way.
So that's how we started in 1990.
And then a few years later,you know, demand got so crazy that
we saw a need for sellerfinancing because obviously banks
don't really finance rural land.
(02:29):
So.
So we started, you know,seller financing.
And then obviously from therewe needed a little bit of money to,
you know, grow our business.
We needed some operating capital.
So my dad was like, hey, well,why don't we start selling a few
of these loans?
So we put some ads in thelocal newspaper and that's where
we found our first group ofinvestors that have been with us
(02:50):
for 20 plus years now.
We are so incredibly blessedto have really amazing, just good
people that invest with us.
They're just all a pleasure towork with.
Like I mentioned previously,it's just really good mutually beneficial
relationships.
So yeah, I've been doing thisfor almost 15 years now, working
(03:12):
with our investors, helpingthem to pick out, you know, the notes
that they, that they want to purchase.
And yeah, we have just to diveinto our whole program.
We have a really great loanservicing team that's in house they
do an excellent job.
There's five people in there,they work full time taking really
(03:33):
good care of our loans.
And yeah, we just, we doeverything in house.
That's our, another big thingabout us is that everything's in
house.
Our road crew is in house.
The only thing we don't havein house is, is a title company.
But we actually do close someof these loans in house if they don't
want title, title insurance.
So.
So it's interesting that youtalk about in house which you've
(03:55):
mentioned a few times and Idon't think people truly understand
the benefits sometimes ofdoing certain things in house.
And you mentioned you havefive people on the servicing team
in house and you know some ofthe other things you do.
And for us we're a companythat we also raise money and we buy
(04:17):
a lot of non performing loansand we have asset management and
our investor relations in house.
And a lot of people like ohthat's just extra overhead.
But the differentiator as abusiness of being able to a control
it.
But also if somebody has aquestion, which always happens, they
(04:37):
pick up the phone call.
If you call a third partyservicer which we use and you know
it's, you have good ones andsome that now sometimes it takes
a little bit.
But if it's somebody who's inhouse, you always seem to get an
answer much quicker.
Sure.
Yeah.
And that's very, veryimportant to our investors.
You know, I mean when theycame on with us 15, 20 years ago,
(05:01):
you know, a lot of them havebeen scammed.
They've been scammed because Imean Utah, where we are is the number
one scam capital in the nation.
So a lot of them had been scammed.
So we took a lot of time with them.
Just really, you know, justtaking our time with them and no,
no pressure type of thing.
And I think the reason why itworked is because like I said, we're
(05:22):
a family own and like yousaid, we take care of them, we don't.
I mean some of our investorswill use escrow specialists but in
fact they've found that we dosuch a better job that they don't.
I mean none of our investorseven take their loans over there
anymore because it's just,yeah, when you have everything in
house, you're just really ableto control the quality of everything.
(05:45):
And when you care about yourcompany the way that we do and you
care about your investors theway that we do, like that's just,
I think that's, that'sprobably the biggest reason why we're
successful is because we, wetake good care of our investors and
we take really good care ofour borrowers too.
That's.
You know, I will say I've beenlistening to your podcast and that's
one of the things that I feellike we have in common is we're just.
(06:07):
Everybody that you'veinterviewed is just.
They're all just really downto earth people, right?
Like, no egos.
Like, we're just, you know,we're just people just doing our
job every day.
Because I feel like in thisworld you will speak with some people
that do have a bit of an ego.
You know, everybody's different.
But I've realized, I've justnoticed that the people that, you
know that are coming to theconference, they're people like us.
(06:29):
We're just down to earthpeople, very personable, you know,
just want to take care of you,no pressure type of thing.
So.
So yeah, yeah, it's.
I tried to get people who dowhat they say they're gonna do, and
there's so many people outthere that just are using social
media, you know, and trying toget an influence on there.
(06:53):
And it was interesting.
I was watching the documentaryabout that unfortunate.
Where, you know, the youngcouple, basically where I think he,
like, you know, ended upkilling her and drove back to Florida
and so forth, where they'retrying to be influencers.
And there was a quote on therethat hit me though, that somebody
said is the people who areeither the loudest or happiest on
(07:17):
social media are typicallythose that have the most skeletons
in the closet.
And.
And it's like in real estate,it's kind of almost like so true
from what I see is.
And again, I'm sitting here asa person who, yeah, I have a podcast
and so forth.
You know, I don't considermyself any type of influencer in
(07:38):
any way, shape or form, butit's like, I try and tell stories,
but there's so many people outthere just trying to take advantage
of people and don't actuallyeven do what they say they're gonna
do, and they pretend they do.
I want people who actuallydeliver on what they do.
And that's why it's, you know,great getting to connect with you
(08:00):
in that sense.
I want to rewind a little bitbecause you mentioned something and
for our audience, because landinvesting, people sometimes think
is easy.
Oh, it's a piece of land, andso forth.
But you mentioned a lot ofpeople get scammed, especially in
Utah.
What are some of the wayspeople can get scammed in this type
(08:21):
of investing.
With notes.
I mean, I don't, to be honest,I don't.
That's, you know, when, when Ifirst spoke with you, I was very
adamant on, you know, I don't,I don't give advice.
That's not what I'm in thebusiness of.
I don't give advice.
So I don't, you know, Icouldn't really, to be honest with
(08:42):
you, I can't really speak onwhat kind of scams are out there.
I think for us, the biggestthing is I, I will say that we get
that a lot.
People will say, oh, you'retoo good to be true.
Right.
Like they.
We're a scam.
Yep.
So with us, it's just all about.
It's just all about documentation.
(09:04):
Everything is disclosed.
You know, I tell people, I'llsend you.
I'll send you whatever youneed to see so that you don't, you
know, so that you feelcomfortable so that, you know, we're
real people.
I mean, a lot of people willeven have them come out to our office
to meet us in person.
Okay.
Because, you know, it's justso much better to just see in person
(09:24):
that, oh, these are real people.
They're really doing what theysay they're doing.
Because, yeah, I, I honestlydon't know what kind of scams there.
There's a lot of differenttypes of scams these days.
I mean, oh, all the kind ofscams that are out there, it's, it's
truly wild.
And some of our, some of ourpeople are older, they're retired,
you know, so I feel likethat's, that's a group of people
(09:46):
that are, are being takenadvantage of.
So, so with us, it's just likeyou said, do what you say you're
going to do.
And that's why we're, that'swhy I'm successful at what I do is
because when I say I'm goingto do something for my investor,
I do it, and I do it in atimely manner.
I don't, you know, because ifthey're wondering, we don't ever
(10:06):
want our investors wondering.
We don't want them during,hey, what's going on with this payment
that I haven't received?
I mean, I don't even want themwondering for one hour.
It's, it's an immediate reply,an immediate get on the phone with
you.
So, yeah, that's, that's kindof what we do to, you know, make
our investors feel comfortableand just Let them know, hey, I know
(10:26):
it might seem like it's toogood to be true, but we're.
We're real people.
We're not a scam.
And, you know, we just take.
Take our time with people as,as long as they need.
So.
Yeah, one thing I noticed thatyou're very detailed on your website
is in the descriptions of your property.
You talk about like, waterrights or the zoning and, you know,
(10:49):
is it ready for, like, cabins,does that access, Is it ready for
enjoyment or not ready for enjoyment?
Where I have seen people, andI've seen this in Texas where people
at tax sales would go out andbuy, you know, basically land that
just is landlocked underwater.
(11:09):
Like, can't do anything with it.
That's 30 miles from any, anyutility and you can't do anything
for it.
They'll buy it at tax sale andthen jack up the price because they'll
offer 0% seller financing andbasically tell people, oh, here's
a big beautiful lot andbuildable when it really isn't.
So that is one thing I haveseen people do.
(11:32):
And some people get a reallybad reputation on.
And one thing I noticed youare really descriptive on your website,
not only from a aspect of whatyou put in there, but you also put
everything in English andSpanish as well.
So it's, you know, bilingual,so everyone can understand.
(11:53):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean, like, like I said,we've been doing this since 1990,
so a lot of this stuff we'velearned through trial and error.
Right.
But that's.
Yeah, that's definitelysomething we've learned through trial
and error.
It's just, it's.
You.
How.
I mean, I don't know howpeople expect to be successful long
term if they're not beingupfront and honest with people.
Right.
(12:13):
Like, it's just.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
I mean, we want to be.
We want to be around forever.
We're actually expanding tonew locations.
So I mean, if we want to dothat, we have to disclose everything.
We have to be upfront with people.
We have to take good care ofthem and treat them like they matter,
not like they're just, youknow, a dollar sign coming into our
bank account, you know, so.
(12:35):
So you mentioned, youmentioned you're looking to expand,
you know, new locations,different states, you know, can,
can you talk about that or isit still kind of under wraps?
It's still under wraps, but we're.
We're able to talk about it.
And it's not.
It's nothing like set in stone.
We're working on it.
We want to.
The first place we want toexpand to is southern Utah, northern,
(12:58):
Northern Arizona, justprobably because it's closest.
And that will be the easiestway for us to kind of, you know,
we've really, we call it awell oiled machine is what we currently
have going on.
I mean, sure, there's flawshere and there, nothing's ever perfect
and we're always working toimprove those flaws.
But yeah, we have a reallywell oiled machine.
(13:19):
So we're just really excitedto be able to take that operation,
those systems and proceduresand try it somewhere else and see
if it's, see if it's successful.
So.
So yeah, I'm excited about that.
Yeah.
Walk me through the experienceof, you know, as an, if somebody
was an investor with you kindof, what, what's their, what's it
look like for their process?
(13:40):
Because with everything inhouse, I'm assuming it must be pretty
streamlined.
Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty easy.
I mean the first thing you dois just get with me and I'm the one
that has the, the list ofnotes that are available.
Our notes, the, the ratesrange anywhere from 8 to 13% and
(14:00):
then our discounts go up to 10.
Our discounts are just basedon our need to sell notes based on,
you know, what position ourbusiness is in.
Sometimes we're buying a hugepiece of property.
That's a big thing we do isbuy huge lots and subdivide them
and create submissions.
So when we're doing that,sometimes we need to sell a couple
(14:21):
more notes, you know, to coverthose costs type of thing.
So, so yeah, they get with me,they pick out some notes that they
want to buy.
We close through the titlecompany so that they do get title
insurance and a lender's policy.
That's, that's huge becauseit's, you know, I mean you want to
make sure the title is clear.
(14:41):
You want to, it's just due diligence.
And then a big thing that wedo that makes us different.
Our quote unquote purple cow,if you want to call it that is.
Heard that.
Your purple cow.
Wow, hold on.
Write that one down.
I learned that in marketing school.
That's one of, one of myfavorite things.
Just your thing that makes youstand out, you know, thing that makes
(15:02):
you different than everybody else.
Because obviously there'speople selling notes even, even notes
on rural land all over the,all over the nation.
So.
But we, we offer a recourseguarantee agreement with our loans
to our investors.
So that that document comes inwith the title company's documents
and that just says if the loandefaults, we're going to replace
(15:22):
it with a similar one from our portfolio.
Because we always have about200 in our portfolio, you know, so
that's a big thing.
Just because it, it guaranteesyour income stream.
Basically you don't have to,you don't have to deal with anything.
And it goes through the titlecompany when you swap out the loan,
when you replace it, it goesthrough the title company.
So it's, it's all official,it's all.
(15:45):
And yeah, we even have anonline system for them to view everything.
So once it's closed andrecorded through the title company,
they can log in and see alltheir notes and the status of it.
And it's just nice becausethey're not ever wondering, you know,
like I said, you don't want toever have an investor wondering what's
going on with their money.
So it's just an extra piecefor them to have some peace of mind
(16:06):
and see what's going on.
So that's kind of the process.
It's super easy.
And then from there we servicethe loans and we have a really good
team.
I keep in close contact withall of them.
So I'll know our agreement andthe recourse says that we swap it
out at 90 days.
So I kind of keep my eye onthe ones that are getting close to
90 days.
And once it gets to thatpoint, I, I work with the investor
(16:27):
to find them a replacement loan.
And it's.
Yeah, it's a pretty seamless,easy process.
That's why I like to say, youknow, if you're just looking for
like something easy and youdon't want to have to do a lot of
work, this is, I mean, it's perfect.
Our investors that wecurrently work with, they just, they
just stack paper, they justbuy more and buy more.
(16:48):
Yep.
And like you mentioned, youknow, some of the differentiators
I view is one is a, you'rebuying land, but you also can buy
large scale which cansubdivide it, which is huge advantage.
Because I know there's peopleout there that don't even know that
their land can be subdividedor families passed down and you can
(17:11):
buy it and then figure out,and you know, based on having done
this for 35 plus years, you'vedone a lot of work in the counties
you worked in.
So you know everybody who's inthose offices and you know, their
kids, a lot of them yeah, exactly.
My dad.
Yeah.
So, you know, for those whoare not in real estate, and I come
(17:32):
from a real estate developmentbackground as well and construction
background.
You know, people may not wantto admit this, but having a relationship
of knowing somebody in theoffice that you've worked with compared
to being somebody from out oftown or out of state.
If I went to go into Utah andbuy a piece of property and buy it
(17:57):
the same day as MW Ranches anddoing a subdivision, I could basically
bet and be pretty confidentthat you would have it through their
system and half the time easily.
And it's not because they'replaying favorites, it's because they
know you that you know their system.
(18:18):
You know what they look for,what they don't look for.
There's so many advantages toworking with somebody in that sense.
So.
Yeah, yeah.
Same thing with a title company.
You know, I tell people justuse our title company because they're
right there literally are liketwo blocks down from the county building.
So it's always just a littlebit more cost effective and faster
(18:40):
to use them because they'rejust right there.
They do it all the time.
They know what they're doing.
Whereas we, when we go to adifferent title company, they're
kind of like, you know what,you just have to tell them everything.
You have to spend more timewith them and then it's usually going
to cost you more money becausethey have to do more work.
So.
So yeah, so we had somebodyrecently, we had someone recently
(19:01):
who adamant they wanted to usetheir own title company.
And we're like, if you useours, it'll be much smoother.
Nope, I'm using my own.
I don't trust yours.
And we were supposed to closethis loan on like a Monday and literally
we didn't get.
And come Wednesday comesaround prior and like this deal's
not closing on Monday becauseyou have.
(19:23):
We have no title commitment ornothing from title back yet and we
can't finish underwriting the loan.
Yeah.
And like Friday at like 5:30pmthey send get the title commitment.
They're like, hey, want toconfirm we can still close Monday.
And I'm like, no.
I'm like, it's like, it's impossible.
I'm like, we told you we'regoing to need a few days.
(19:45):
And like this is why it tooktheir title company about three weeks
for to, you know, do everything.
I'm like, we know what we're doing.
We would have had this done ina week and just would have been over
with.
But you know, you're eitherthinking that you're saving money
and so forth.
I'm like, you're really not.
And actually their titlecompany was more expensive than the
(20:06):
one we use.
So.
Yeah, yeah, like you said, itgoes back to trust.
Some people just have a reallyhard time trusting people.
So I feel like you have to,you know, you have to respect that
as much as you can and workwith that as much as you possibly
can.
But I feel like, yeah, it's,it ends up being their loss in the
(20:26):
end because they didn't, youknow, they didn't trust you and just
do what you, you know, whatyou knew was going to be faster and
a little bit cheaper.
But, you know, at the end ofthe day, when you're working with
an investor, it's like youhave to walk a fine line of, you
know, taking good care of themand making them feel like, like I
said, like you're not a scamand because, yeah, trust is, Trust
(20:49):
is a huge piece.
Yes, yeah, yeah, trust.
And goes back to what, youknow, we were talking about earlier,
just, you know, being a personof your word, being in the business
for 35 years, buildinginvestor trust.
And as you mentioned, a lot ofthose repeat investors, you know,
we've been around for, in thisbusiness, you know, you know, three
plus years with our currentfund and we have a very high reinvestment
(21:12):
rate because, you know, wejust, you know, we tell people, you
know, what's going on, we tryand keep them informed and, you know,
we try and be as transparentas possible on things and, you know,
just, you know, just, youknow, try and be upfront with people
and what's going on.
And I think that goes really along way.
If people have questions, theycan reach out and talk to us.
(21:32):
We don't, you know, notrespond to them.
So it's, that's important.
There's a lot of that in this world.
There's a lot of, you know,you can't get through to somebody.
There's a lot of, you know,there's, like we were saying, there's
a lot of scams.
There's a lot of people whosay they're going to do something
and then they don't do it.
So when you are that personthat does what you say you're going
(21:53):
to do and you're that personthat you're real, you're not a scam.
Like, it, like you said, itgoes a long way because there's nothing,
unfortunately, a lot of thatin this world right now.
No, it is.
And the reality, too, is, youknow, there are deals that go bad,
you know, and this reality isif you're in real estate and your
(22:14):
family business of 35 yearsdoing this, there's deals that probably
didn't go as well as you thought.
And that's the reality of it.
You know, I remember I was ata conference and this, you know,
there's.
They had, like, little groupsaround an area where different sponsors
got the talk and so forth.
And they basically went from.
(22:35):
Like, you were in a group thatwent from one to the other.
This one guy talking, and he'slike, yeah, we're a $5 billion fund
that is, you know, basicallydoes private lending.
And we have never had toforeclose on.
Never had, like, foreclosed onon a loan or something.
And I'm just like, there is.
(22:56):
And they've been around for, Idon't know, 10 plus, whatever years.
I'm like, that is impossible.
I'm like, there.
I'm like, unless you sold itfor a loss, but there is no chance
that, you know, you've donethousands of loans.
And I've never.
I'm like, it's, you know,pretty much statistically impossible
(23:18):
to have that happen.
And, you know, a person wastouting it and stuff.
And, you know, I see peoplegoing, you know, and I'm like sitting
here thinking, like, okay, Iwish I had my meter, because I could
pull out, because the thingwould be going off the charts.
That's the other problem intoday's world is a lot of people
don't have a meter.
They don't, you know, they seea shiny thing and they're so impressed
(23:40):
by it.
But you have to really be ableto see through the shine because
everything that glitters isnot gold.
So.
Oh.
So there was.
Somebody sent me an articleyesterday about an investor in Southern
California, was runningbasically a mortgage note fund that
got charged wire fraud, andbasically 62 million.
Allegedly $62 milliondisappeared out of, like, nine, whatever.
(24:03):
And, you know, the person wasoffering, like, 15% plus annual returns
to investors.
There was another one thatrecent was in news because they're
offering 40% returns to their investors.
And we had one of ourinvestors reach out and say they
ask this question on a webinar.
Well, I can invest in thiscompany and get 40, 10% per quarter.
(24:26):
You're like, 10% per year.
Why would I invest with you?
And I, you know, my commentwas, I don't know any company on
the planet that has sustaineda 40% annualized return to its investors.
If it did, they'd be owned byBlackstone and Blackstone would be
their only investor.
(24:47):
And also, I have no idea whatthat risk profile is, but it must
be humongous.
And turns out, you know, itwas basically a Ponzi scheme.
And you know what it turns outto be.
Yeah.
And basically a lot of theseother quote unquote note funds that
you see that are offering 15,18, 20% returns now every three months
(25:07):
now.
I see, you know, whether it'sthat or self storage or anything,
it pops up that it's like, oh,this person basically, you know,
use the money for their ownhouse or this, and, you know, they
lived a great life.
But yeah, it's.
That shiny object is, youknow, there's.
When everyone is in like a.
(25:28):
Like you said, you're like 8to 13%.
You know, when everyone's inthat, you know, that range of things,
it's like, okay, that makes sense.
But when you see people atlike 16, 18, 20%, it's like, what's
going on?
What are you doing?
Yes.
The math is not mathing.
That's exactly right.
(25:48):
Yeah.
When.
When you look at.
It's like, you know, you haveoverhead, you have like, where's
that?
How.
Yeah, so.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's why, you know,that's why I think our investors
love our program.
And it's, you know, they'reall more conservative people.
Right.
Like, they're not.
They're not looking to get a50 return in three years.
(26:09):
Because I do talk to peoplelike that.
Like, they're looking forcrazy returns and a short amount
of time.
And I'm like, I'm not.
I'm not going to waste your time.
That's just not what we have.
So good luck to you finding that.
But that's not what we have.
You know, we have a reallysolid program.
It works.
It's proven to work.
These returns are proven to work.
You know, it is what it is.
(26:30):
If you want to take that riskon the.
On the 50% return in threeyears, then go ahead.
But like you said, it'susually a scam, unfortunately.
So.
Yeah.
And like you said, been aroundlong enough where you've got the
track record, and when people.
And it's a very different mindset.
People that invest in thistype of product, they're looking
(26:51):
for the income play.
They're not looking for the 50%.
They just want something that,you know, is diversified and adds
to that portfolio.
And if you can get that, youknow, 8, 10, 12, 13% from one person
and it's consistent.
It's like, okay, I willcontinue to feed them.
And because they're trustednow, they may diversify and try one
(27:11):
or the other and stuff, butfrom the most part, you know, they're
not going to leave.
You know, they typically willgrow, but, you know, most will also
diversify whatnot.
But, you know, the moment youget an investor and you treat them
well and, you know, if you canhit the returns, you say, you know,
typically they will not leave.
Yes, that's exactly right.
(27:32):
In fact, they.
They refer their familymembers, their brothers, their sisters,
their kids.
I mean, that's a lot of investors.
Their whole family investswith us because they just see such
a good return from it and it'ssuch a solid operation that, yeah,
they just, they want everyoneto get in on it.
So.
Yeah.
So as we wrap up this episode,last two questions I wanted to ask
(27:55):
is, with your investors, isthere typically, like a minimum investment
amount that they need to have?
So, you know, with what we do.
That's what I was going to say.
It's interesting with what wedo because we completely avoid the
securities Exchange Commissionbecause, you know, you're just buying
a note.
You don't even sell partialnotes right now.
You have to buy the full note.
(28:15):
Right.
So our lowest loan right nowis around $45,000.
Our highest loan right now isabout $230,000.
With that being said, you canobviously buy a package of them.
I usually have about 10available at all times.
Our average loan balance isabout 75,000.
(28:36):
That's our average right now.
And then, yeah, when you buy apackage, we'll obviously increase
that discount for buying a package.
And the loans, you know,amortize interest only.
Balloon how they payments?
No balloon payments.
Just.
Yeah, they're just conventional.
Conventional homes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
And if people were interested,want more information about what
(29:00):
you do, I know they can go tomwranches.com and should they, you
know, reach out to you or isthere an email or.
Actually, it's actuallymwranches.comland-no, because MW
will just take you to our.
Our land business.
But that's always really goodto see too.
(29:21):
I send our investors there too.
Yeah.
My email address is just myfirst name, ch a l e a@m w ranches.com
so that's the best way.
But if you go to that website,there's even a button on there and
it'll like, just call my phonedirectly from there.
Same thing with email.
It'll send an email directlyfrom there.
(29:41):
So super easy.
Yeah.
And I'm on Facebook,Instagram, LinkedIn.
Yeah, great.
Well, thanks for coming on today.
It's been a pleasure, and Ilook forward to seeing you very shortly.
Yep.
We'll see you next week.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Take care.
Bye.
Welcome everybody to anotherepisode of the Paper Trail podcast.
Today I have Chalet Grant withMountain West Ranches who is a land
investment company out on thewest coast and also a sponsor at
the Paper Trail conference.
How are you today?
(01:05):
I'm doing really good.
Super excited to talk with youand tell you a little bit about what
we do.
So yeah, I'm excited.
Thank you for having me.
So I'm type person who justlikes to roll up our sleeves and
dive right into it.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about Mountain West Ranches,
what you do and how you gotinvolved in this avenue of business.
(01:28):
Yeah, so I've been working,it's a family owned business.
That's biggest piece probablythat we like to tell people and it's
just a small business, butI've been working for the company
since I was 15 years.
Company is basically like apart of my DNA because it's been
around since 1990, the yearbefore I was born.
(01:48):
So I've been hearing my dad,he's the owner of the company, I've
been hearing him talk aboutthis since I was born.
So very, very passionate aboutour company and what we do.
The way it started, it was mygrandpa, he went out to the tax sale,
bought some lots for super cheap.
He went in and you know, madesure there was a road to get into
(02:08):
the lot, graded out a nicelittle pad, you know, to fit an RV
and just started selling lotsthat way.
So that's how we started in 1990.
And then a few years later,you know, demand got so crazy that
we saw a need for sellerfinancing because obviously banks
don't really finance rural land.
(02:29):
So.
So we started, you know,seller financing.
And then obviously from therewe needed a little bit of money to,
you know, grow our business.
We needed some operating capital.
So my dad was like, hey, well,why don't we start selling a few
of these loans?
So we put some ads in thelocal newspaper and that's where
we found our first group ofinvestors that have been with us
(02:50):
for 20 plus years now.
We are so incredibly blessedto have really amazing, just good
people that invest with us.
They're just all a pleasure towork with.
Like I mentioned previously,it's just really good mutually beneficial
relationships.
So yeah, I've been doing thisfor almost 15 years now, working
(03:12):
with our investors, helpingthem to pick out, you know, the notes
that they, that they want to purchase.
And yeah, we have just to diveinto our whole program.
We have a really great loanservicing team that's in house they
do an excellent job.
There's five people in there,they work full time taking really
(03:33):
good care of our loans.
And yeah, we just, we doeverything in house.
That's our, another big thingabout us is that everything's in
house.
Our road crew is in house.
The only thing we don't havein house is, is a title company.
But we actually do close someof these loans in house if they don't
want title, title insurance.
So.
So it's interesting that youtalk about in house which you've
(03:55):
mentioned a few times and Idon't think people truly understand
the benefits sometimes ofdoing certain things in house.
And you mentioned you havefive people on the servicing team
in house and you know some ofthe other things you do.
And for us we're a companythat we also raise money and we buy
(04:17):
a lot of non performing loansand we have asset management and
our investor relations in house.
And a lot of people like ohthat's just extra overhead.
But the differentiator as abusiness of being able to a control
it.
But also if somebody has aquestion, which always happens, they
(04:37):
pick up the phone call.
If you call a third partyservicer which we use and you know
it's, you have good ones andsome that now sometimes it takes
a little bit.
But if it's somebody who's inhouse, you always seem to get an
answer much quicker.
Sure.
Yeah.
And that's very, veryimportant to our investors.
You know, I mean when theycame on with us 15, 20 years ago,
(05:01):
you know, a lot of them havebeen scammed.
They've been scammed because Imean Utah, where we are is the number
one scam capital in the nation.
So a lot of them had been scammed.
So we took a lot of time with them.
Just really, you know, justtaking our time with them and no,
no pressure type of thing.
And I think the reason why itworked is because like I said, we're
(05:22):
a family own and like yousaid, we take care of them, we don't.
I mean some of our investorswill use escrow specialists but in
fact they've found that we dosuch a better job that they don't.
I mean none of our investorseven take their loans over there
anymore because it's just,yeah, when you have everything in
house, you're just really ableto control the quality of everything.
(05:45):
And when you care about yourcompany the way that we do and you
care about your investors theway that we do, like that's just,
I think that's, that'sprobably the biggest reason why we're
successful is because we, wetake good care of our investors and
we take really good care ofour borrowers too.
That's.
You know, I will say I've beenlistening to your podcast and that's
one of the things that I feellike we have in common is we're just.
(06:07):
Everybody that you'veinterviewed is just.
They're all just really downto earth people, right?
Like, no egos.
Like, we're just, you know,we're just people just doing our
job every day.
Because I feel like in thisworld you will speak with some people
that do have a bit of an ego.
You know, everybody's different.
But I've realized, I've justnoticed that the people that, you
know that are coming to theconference, they're people like us.
(06:29):
We're just down to earthpeople, very personable, you know,
just want to take care of you,no pressure type of thing.
So.
So yeah, yeah, it's.
I tried to get people who dowhat they say they're gonna do, and
there's so many people outthere that just are using social
media, you know, and trying toget an influence on there.
(06:53):
And it was interesting.
I was watching the documentaryabout that unfortunate.
Where, you know, the youngcouple, basically where I think he,
like, you know, ended upkilling her and drove back to Florida
and so forth, where they'retrying to be influencers.
And there was a quote on therethat hit me though, that somebody
said is the people who areeither the loudest or happiest on
(07:17):
social media are typicallythose that have the most skeletons
in the closet.
And.
And it's like in real estate,it's kind of almost like so true
from what I see is.
And again, I'm sitting here asa person who, yeah, I have a podcast
and so forth.
You know, I don't considermyself any type of influencer in
(07:38):
any way, shape or form, butit's like, I try and tell stories,
but there's so many people outthere just trying to take advantage
of people and don't actuallyeven do what they say they're gonna
do, and they pretend they do.
I want people who actuallydeliver on what they do.
And that's why it's, you know,great getting to connect with you
(08:00):
in that sense.
I want to rewind a little bitbecause you mentioned something and
for our audience, because landinvesting, people sometimes think
is easy.
Oh, it's a piece of land, andso forth.
But you mentioned a lot ofpeople get scammed, especially in
Utah.
What are some of the wayspeople can get scammed in this type
(08:21):
of investing.
With notes.
I mean, I don't, to be honest,I don't.
That's, you know, when, when Ifirst spoke with you, I was very
adamant on, you know, I don't,I don't give advice.
That's not what I'm in thebusiness of.
I don't give advice.
So I don't, you know, Icouldn't really, to be honest with
(08:42):
you, I can't really speak onwhat kind of scams are out there.
I think for us, the biggestthing is I, I will say that we get
that a lot.
People will say, oh, you'retoo good to be true.
Right.
Like they.
We're a scam.
Yep.
So with us, it's just all about.
It's just all about documentation.
(09:04):
Everything is disclosed.
You know, I tell people, I'llsend you.
I'll send you whatever youneed to see so that you don't, you
know, so that you feelcomfortable so that, you know, we're
real people.
I mean, a lot of people willeven have them come out to our office
to meet us in person.
Okay.
Because, you know, it's justso much better to just see in person
(09:24):
that, oh, these are real people.
They're really doing what theysay they're doing.
Because, yeah, I, I honestlydon't know what kind of scams there.
There's a lot of differenttypes of scams these days.
I mean, oh, all the kind ofscams that are out there, it's, it's
truly wild.
And some of our, some of ourpeople are older, they're retired,
you know, so I feel likethat's, that's a group of people
(09:46):
that are, are being takenadvantage of.
So, so with us, it's just likeyou said, do what you say you're
going to do.
And that's why we're, that'swhy I'm successful at what I do is
because when I say I'm goingto do something for my investor,
I do it, and I do it in atimely manner.
I don't, you know, because ifthey're wondering, we don't ever
(10:06):
want our investors wondering.
We don't want them during,hey, what's going on with this payment
that I haven't received?
I mean, I don't even want themwondering for one hour.
It's, it's an immediate reply,an immediate get on the phone with
you.
So, yeah, that's, that's kindof what we do to, you know, make
our investors feel comfortableand just Let them know, hey, I know
(10:26):
it might seem like it's toogood to be true, but we're.
We're real people.
We're not a scam.
And, you know, we just take.
Take our time with people as,as long as they need.
So.
Yeah, one thing I noticed thatyou're very detailed on your website
is in the descriptions of your property.
You talk about like, waterrights or the zoning and, you know,
(10:49):
is it ready for, like, cabins,does that access, Is it ready for
enjoyment or not ready for enjoyment?
Where I have seen people, andI've seen this in Texas where people
at tax sales would go out andbuy, you know, basically land that
just is landlocked underwater.
(11:09):
Like, can't do anything with it.
That's 30 miles from any, anyutility and you can't do anything
for it.
They'll buy it at tax sale andthen jack up the price because they'll
offer 0% seller financing andbasically tell people, oh, here's
a big beautiful lot andbuildable when it really isn't.
So that is one thing I haveseen people do.
(11:32):
And some people get a reallybad reputation on.
And one thing I noticed youare really descriptive on your website,
not only from a aspect of whatyou put in there, but you also put
everything in English andSpanish as well.
So it's, you know, bilingual,so everyone can understand.
(11:53):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean, like, like I said,we've been doing this since 1990,
so a lot of this stuff we'velearned through trial and error.
Right.
But that's.
Yeah, that's definitelysomething we've learned through trial
and error.
It's just, it's.
You.
How.
I mean, I don't know howpeople expect to be successful long
term if they're not beingupfront and honest with people.
Right.
(12:13):
Like, it's just.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
I mean, we want to be.
We want to be around forever.
We're actually expanding tonew locations.
So I mean, if we want to dothat, we have to disclose everything.
We have to be upfront with people.
We have to take good care ofthem and treat them like they matter,
not like they're just, youknow, a dollar sign coming into our
bank account, you know, so.
(12:35):
So you mentioned, youmentioned you're looking to expand,
you know, new locations,different states, you know, can,
can you talk about that or isit still kind of under wraps?
It's still under wraps, but we're.
We're able to talk about it.
And it's not.
It's nothing like set in stone.
We're working on it.
We want to.
The first place we want toexpand to is southern Utah, northern,
(12:58):
Northern Arizona, justprobably because it's closest.
And that will be the easiestway for us to kind of, you know,
we've really, we call it awell oiled machine is what we currently
have going on.
I mean, sure, there's flawshere and there, nothing's ever perfect
and we're always working toimprove those flaws.
But yeah, we have a reallywell oiled machine.
(13:19):
So we're just really excitedto be able to take that operation,
those systems and proceduresand try it somewhere else and see
if it's, see if it's successful.
So.
So yeah, I'm excited about that.
Yeah.
Walk me through the experienceof, you know, as an, if somebody
was an investor with you kindof, what, what's their, what's it
look like for their process?
(13:40):
Because with everything inhouse, I'm assuming it must be pretty
streamlined.
Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty easy.
I mean the first thing you dois just get with me and I'm the one
that has the, the list ofnotes that are available.
Our notes, the, the ratesrange anywhere from 8 to 13% and
(14:00):
then our discounts go up to 10.
Our discounts are just basedon our need to sell notes based on,
you know, what position ourbusiness is in.
Sometimes we're buying a hugepiece of property.
That's a big thing we do isbuy huge lots and subdivide them
and create submissions.
So when we're doing that,sometimes we need to sell a couple
(14:21):
more notes, you know, to coverthose costs type of thing.
So, so yeah, they get with me,they pick out some notes that they
want to buy.
We close through the titlecompany so that they do get title
insurance and a lender's policy.
That's, that's huge becauseit's, you know, I mean you want to
make sure the title is clear.
(14:41):
You want to, it's just due diligence.
And then a big thing that wedo that makes us different.
Our quote unquote purple cow,if you want to call it that is.
Heard that.
Your purple cow.
Wow, hold on.
Write that one down.
I learned that in marketing school.
That's one of, one of myfavorite things.
Just your thing that makes youstand out, you know, thing that makes
(15:02):
you different than everybody else.
Because obviously there'speople selling notes even, even notes
on rural land all over the,all over the nation.
So.
But we, we offer a recourseguarantee agreement with our loans
to our investors.
So that that document comes inwith the title company's documents
and that just says if the loandefaults, we're going to replace
(15:22):
it with a similar one from our portfolio.
Because we always have about200 in our portfolio, you know, so
that's a big thing.
Just because it, it guaranteesyour income stream.
Basically you don't have to,you don't have to deal with anything.
And it goes through the titlecompany when you swap out the loan,
when you replace it, it goesthrough the title company.
So it's, it's all official,it's all.
(15:45):
And yeah, we even have anonline system for them to view everything.
So once it's closed andrecorded through the title company,
they can log in and see alltheir notes and the status of it.
And it's just nice becausethey're not ever wondering, you know,
like I said, you don't want toever have an investor wondering what's
going on with their money.
So it's just an extra piecefor them to have some peace of mind
(16:06):
and see what's going on.
So that's kind of the process.
It's super easy.
And then from there we servicethe loans and we have a really good
team.
I keep in close contact withall of them.
So I'll know our agreement andthe recourse says that we swap it
out at 90 days.
So I kind of keep my eye onthe ones that are getting close to
90 days.
And once it gets to thatpoint, I, I work with the investor
(16:27):
to find them a replacement loan.
And it's.
Yeah, it's a pretty seamless,easy process.
That's why I like to say, youknow, if you're just looking for
like something easy and youdon't want to have to do a lot of
work, this is, I mean, it's perfect.
Our investors that wecurrently work with, they just, they
just stack paper, they justbuy more and buy more.
(16:48):
Yep.
And like you mentioned, youknow, some of the differentiators
I view is one is a, you'rebuying land, but you also can buy
large scale which cansubdivide it, which is huge advantage.
Because I know there's peopleout there that don't even know that
their land can be subdividedor families passed down and you can
(17:11):
buy it and then figure out,and you know, based on having done
this for 35 plus years, you'vedone a lot of work in the counties
you worked in.
So you know everybody who's inthose offices and you know, their
kids, a lot of them yeah, exactly.
My dad.
Yeah.
So, you know, for those whoare not in real estate, and I come
(17:32):
from a real estate developmentbackground as well and construction
background.
You know, people may not wantto admit this, but having a relationship
of knowing somebody in theoffice that you've worked with compared
to being somebody from out oftown or out of state.
If I went to go into Utah andbuy a piece of property and buy it
(17:57):
the same day as MW Ranches anddoing a subdivision, I could basically
bet and be pretty confidentthat you would have it through their
system and half the time easily.
And it's not because they'replaying favorites, it's because they
know you that you know their system.
(18:18):
You know what they look for,what they don't look for.
There's so many advantages toworking with somebody in that sense.
So.
Yeah, yeah.
Same thing with a title company.
You know, I tell people justuse our title company because they're
right there literally are liketwo blocks down from the county building.
So it's always just a littlebit more cost effective and faster
(18:40):
to use them because they'rejust right there.
They do it all the time.
They know what they're doing.
Whereas we, when we go to adifferent title company, they're
kind of like, you know what,you just have to tell them everything.
You have to spend more timewith them and then it's usually going
to cost you more money becausethey have to do more work.
So.
So yeah, so we had somebodyrecently, we had someone recently
(19:01):
who adamant they wanted to usetheir own title company.
And we're like, if you useours, it'll be much smoother.
Nope, I'm using my own.
I don't trust yours.
And we were supposed to closethis loan on like a Monday and literally
we didn't get.
And come Wednesday comesaround prior and like this deal's
not closing on Monday becauseyou have.
(19:23):
We have no title commitment ornothing from title back yet and we
can't finish underwriting the loan.
Yeah.
And like Friday at like 5:30pmthey send get the title commitment.
They're like, hey, want toconfirm we can still close Monday.
And I'm like, no.
I'm like, it's like, it's impossible.
I'm like, we told you we'regoing to need a few days.
(19:45):
And like this is why it tooktheir title company about three weeks
for to, you know, do everything.
I'm like, we know what we're doing.
We would have had this done ina week and just would have been over
with.
But you know, you're eitherthinking that you're saving money
and so forth.
I'm like, you're really not.
And actually their titlecompany was more expensive than the
(20:06):
one we use.
So.
Yeah, yeah, like you said, itgoes back to trust.
Some people just have a reallyhard time trusting people.
So I feel like you have to,you know, you have to respect that
as much as you can and workwith that as much as you possibly
can.
But I feel like, yeah, it's,it ends up being their loss in the
(20:26):
end because they didn't, youknow, they didn't trust you and just
do what you, you know, whatyou knew was going to be faster and
a little bit cheaper.
But, you know, at the end ofthe day, when you're working with
an investor, it's like youhave to walk a fine line of, you
know, taking good care of themand making them feel like, like I
said, like you're not a scamand because, yeah, trust is, Trust
(20:49):
is a huge piece.
Yes, yeah, yeah, trust.
And goes back to what, youknow, we were talking about earlier,
just, you know, being a personof your word, being in the business
for 35 years, buildinginvestor trust.
And as you mentioned, a lot ofthose repeat investors, you know,
we've been around for, in thisbusiness, you know, you know, three
plus years with our currentfund and we have a very high reinvestment
(21:12):
rate because, you know, wejust, you know, we tell people, you
know, what's going on, we tryand keep them informed and, you know,
we try and be as transparentas possible on things and, you know,
just, you know, just, youknow, try and be upfront with people
and what's going on.
And I think that goes really along way.
If people have questions, theycan reach out and talk to us.
(21:32):
We don't, you know, notrespond to them.
So it's, that's important.
There's a lot of that in this world.
There's a lot of, you know,you can't get through to somebody.
There's a lot of, you know,there's, like we were saying, there's
a lot of scams.
There's a lot of people whosay they're going to do something
and then they don't do it.
So when you are that personthat does what you say you're going
(21:53):
to do and you're that personthat you're real, you're not a scam.
Like, it, like you said, itgoes a long way because there's nothing,
unfortunately, a lot of thatin this world right now.
No, it is.
And the reality, too, is, youknow, there are deals that go bad,
you know, and this reality isif you're in real estate and your
(22:14):
family business of 35 yearsdoing this, there's deals that probably
didn't go as well as you thought.
And that's the reality of it.
You know, I remember I was ata conference and this, you know,
there's.
They had, like, little groupsaround an area where different sponsors
got the talk and so forth.
And they basically went from.
(22:35):
Like, you were in a group thatwent from one to the other.
This one guy talking, and he'slike, yeah, we're a $5 billion fund
that is, you know, basicallydoes private lending.
And we have never had toforeclose on.
Never had, like, foreclosed onon a loan or something.
And I'm just like, there is.
(22:56):
And they've been around for, Idon't know, 10 plus, whatever years.
I'm like, that is impossible.
I'm like, there.
I'm like, unless you sold itfor a loss, but there is no chance
that, you know, you've donethousands of loans.
And I've never.
I'm like, it's, you know,pretty much statistically impossible
(23:18):
to have that happen.
And, you know, a person wastouting it and stuff.
And, you know, I see peoplegoing, you know, and I'm like sitting
here thinking, like, okay, Iwish I had my meter, because I could
pull out, because the thingwould be going off the charts.
That's the other problem intoday's world is a lot of people
don't have a meter.
They don't, you know, they seea shiny thing and they're so impressed
(23:40):
by it.
But you have to really be ableto see through the shine because
everything that glitters isnot gold.
So.
Oh.
So there was.
Somebody sent me an articleyesterday about an investor in Southern
California, was runningbasically a mortgage note fund that
got charged wire fraud, andbasically 62 million.
Allegedly $62 milliondisappeared out of, like, nine, whatever.
(24:03):
And, you know, the person wasoffering, like, 15% plus annual returns
to investors.
There was another one thatrecent was in news because they're
offering 40% returns to their investors.
And we had one of ourinvestors reach out and say they
ask this question on a webinar.
Well, I can invest in thiscompany and get 40, 10% per quarter.
(24:26):
You're like, 10% per year.
Why would I invest with you?
And I, you know, my commentwas, I don't know any company on
the planet that has sustaineda 40% annualized return to its investors.
If it did, they'd be owned byBlackstone and Blackstone would be
their only investor.
(24:47):
And also, I have no idea whatthat risk profile is, but it must
be humongous.
And turns out, you know, itwas basically a Ponzi scheme.
And you know what it turns outto be.
Yeah.
And basically a lot of theseother quote unquote note funds that
you see that are offering 15,18, 20% returns now every three months
(25:07):
now.
I see, you know, whether it'sthat or self storage or anything,
it pops up that it's like, oh,this person basically, you know,
use the money for their ownhouse or this, and, you know, they
lived a great life.
But yeah, it's.
That shiny object is, youknow, there's.
When everyone is in like a.
(25:28):
Like you said, you're like 8to 13%.
You know, when everyone's inthat, you know, that range of things,
it's like, okay, that makes sense.
But when you see people atlike 16, 18, 20%, it's like, what's
going on?
What are you doing?
Yes.
The math is not mathing.
That's exactly right.
(25:48):
Yeah.
When.
When you look at.
It's like, you know, you haveoverhead, you have like, where's
that?
How.
Yeah, so.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's why, you know,that's why I think our investors
love our program.
And it's, you know, they'reall more conservative people.
Right.
Like, they're not.
They're not looking to get a50 return in three years.
(26:09):
Because I do talk to peoplelike that.
Like, they're looking forcrazy returns and a short amount
of time.
And I'm like, I'm not.
I'm not going to waste your time.
That's just not what we have.
So good luck to you finding that.
But that's not what we have.
You know, we have a reallysolid program.
It works.
It's proven to work.
These returns are proven to work.
You know, it is what it is.
(26:30):
If you want to take that riskon the.
On the 50% return in threeyears, then go ahead.
But like you said, it'susually a scam, unfortunately.
So.
Yeah.
And like you said, been aroundlong enough where you've got the
track record, and when people.
And it's a very different mindset.
People that invest in thistype of product, they're looking
(26:51):
for the income play.
They're not looking for the 50%.
They just want something that,you know, is diversified and adds
to that portfolio.
And if you can get that, youknow, 8, 10, 12, 13% from one person
and it's consistent.
It's like, okay, I willcontinue to feed them.
And because they're trustednow, they may diversify and try one
(27:11):
or the other and stuff, butfrom the most part, you know, they're
not going to leave.
You know, they typically willgrow, but, you know, most will also
diversify whatnot.
But, you know, the moment youget an investor and you treat them
well and, you know, if you canhit the returns, you say, you know,
typically they will not leave.
Yes, that's exactly right.
(27:32):
In fact, they.
They refer their familymembers, their brothers, their sisters,
their kids.
I mean, that's a lot of investors.
Their whole family investswith us because they just see such
a good return from it and it'ssuch a solid operation that, yeah,
they just, they want everyoneto get in on it.
So.
Yeah.
So as we wrap up this episode,last two questions I wanted to ask
(27:55):
is, with your investors, isthere typically, like a minimum investment
amount that they need to have?
So, you know, with what we do.
That's what I was going to say.
It's interesting with what wedo because we completely avoid the
securities Exchange Commissionbecause, you know, you're just buying
a note.
You don't even sell partialnotes right now.
You have to buy the full note.
(28:15):
Right.
So our lowest loan right nowis around $45,000.
Our highest loan right now isabout $230,000.
With that being said, you canobviously buy a package of them.
I usually have about 10available at all times.
Our average loan balance isabout 75,000.
(28:36):
That's our average right now.
And then, yeah, when you buy apackage, we'll obviously increase
that discount for buying a package.
And the loans, you know,amortize interest only.
Balloon how they payments?
No balloon payments.
Just.
Yeah, they're just conventional.
Conventional homes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
And if people were interested,want more information about what
(29:00):
you do, I know they can go tomwranches.com and should they, you
know, reach out to you or isthere an email or.
Actually, it's actuallymwranches.comland-no, because MW
will just take you to our.
Our land business.
But that's always really goodto see too.
(29:21):
I send our investors there too.
Yeah.
My email address is just myfirst name, ch a l e a@m w ranches.com
so that's the best way.
But if you go to that website,there's even a button on there and
it'll like, just call my phonedirectly from there.
Same thing with email.
It'll send an email directlyfrom there.
(29:41):
So super easy.
Yeah.
And I'm on Facebook,Instagram, LinkedIn.
Yeah, great.
Well, thanks for coming on today.
It's been a pleasure, and Ilook forward to seeing you very shortly.
Yep.
We'll see you next week.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Take care.
Bye.
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