January 27, 2025 • 35 mins
The Black Farmers and Agriculturalists will be in court challenging their lawsuit with the USDA says Thomas Burrell, President on The Bev Johnson Show on WDIA Radio.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Beep, justn't show bell jumping time.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
With this talking and home away.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Help you go, you go? Don't getting ready to go?
Speaker 4 (00:13):
It's time said show bet Joe.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Let's go bell.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Just then we you'll make your ody by here wrong DoD.
Listen to what to say. You know it's tap of
the bell to show Tampa the belt of show like
let's go.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Good afternoon and welcome back to the second half of
the Beth Johnson Show here at WDIA. It is Monday,
January twenty seventh, twenty twenty five. Enjoyed this fabulous day today.
Before we get ready to talk to my next guest,
let me tell you about my sister friend. You know her.
I've been telling you about the exclusive all State exclusive
(01:27):
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(03:02):
Michelle Hayes Thomas nine zero one nine three zero zero
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State agent. We are back a special guest. He's in
(03:33):
the house for the first time this new year, he's
gonna give us the good news once again. I like
to say, Happy New Year, Good afternoon to my friend
mister Thomas Barrell, president of the Black Farmers and Agricultures Association.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
How you doing.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
A happy new year, mister Barrell. How you doing?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Oh, Happy New Years to you as well. We appreciate
you and thank you for allowing us to privilege your
valuable and important time.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, thank you, mister Morell. I appreciate you. You know
I hadn't seen you last year. You came in and
told us all things, because you know you're advocate for
those farmers. But mister Barrell, you have some good news
going on today.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh yes, we do, indeed, bev and we have some
extremely good news, monumental news.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The last time we were here, we talked about the
fact that we had filed Lisa, our attorneys for the
benefit of our members, a complaint in the Federal District
Court here in Memphis, Tennessee. That was denied and then
we file and timely appeal to the US six Circuit
(04:45):
Court of Appeals in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
And it was on whole.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
The last time we met, however, a couple of important
things happened since.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Then, Okay bev.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And that is on June June the twenty eighth last year,
while our lawsuit was pending, the Supreme Court came down,
particularly the Chief Justice John Roberts, and made a landmark
ruling that favored Beefa's position. And as a result of that,
(05:17):
then the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals has asked our
attorneys to meet them this coming Thursday, January the thirtieth,
talk about a new year's president January the thirtieth, which
is this coming Thursday, and Cincinnati, Ohio BEV to make
(05:39):
what they referred to as oral arguments regarding our emotion
against the Department of Agriculture for violating a constitutional statute
that was created for block folks over one hundred and
fifty years ago, a civil rights statute that does, among
(06:01):
other things, allow black folks to contract for property and
more specifically, to leave that property to their sons and daughters,
or to their heirs or to their children.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
So we're just excited.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Our members are coming by plane, by bus, they're driving cars.
We're all going to be in Cincinnati this Thursday hear
our attorney make those oral arguments.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
This is monumental.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Rarely, rarely, rather will individuals in African American community get
an opportunity to make oral arguments to a court of
this magnitude. Right, So.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Kind of go back, mister Barrell. For those who are
listening and don't understand what this lawsuit and why you
all brought this lawsuit, I mean, what happened?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Thank you Beverle for put it be on that track.
What happened? A little bit of history.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yes, as you know, the Black Farmers and Agriculturalist Association,
we are an ad vote could see association, particularly in
the area of civil rights for the sons and daughters
and black farmers and black ranchers, etc. The Congress created
an opportunity a couple of years ago called the Inflation
and Reduction Act, and they set aside two point two
(07:18):
billion dollars for individuals, particularly in the African American community
BEV who believed that they were the victims of discrimination
by the Department of Agriculture. So, in other words, over
the last twenty five years, the Department of Agriculture has
had to pay out about ten billion dollars. The first
(07:39):
lawsuit was Pickfoot one. A lot of black folks got
fifty thousand dollars, then they would pick for two. Now
they're still being slapped on the risks, as it were,
for continuing to violate our constitutional rights. Congress set aside
additional moneys. However, what USDA did in this particular instance
(08:00):
is one a child or a son and or a
daughter of a person who was otherwise discriminated against, who
would have been entitled to a part of that two
point du bedia but was deceased. Then USDA says, well,
we will pay the individuals the victims who are yet alive,
(08:21):
but we're not going to pay the sons and daughters
of the victims who are deceased. And we argued at
that point that when Congress created the Civil Rights Act
of eighteen sixty six, I know we have to go
all the way back to Yese. They included specifically the
right not only to the contract for property, and that's
(08:44):
how black folks were able to buy and purchase over
twenty million acres. But not only would they have the right,
African Americans have the right to contract for property, to
sell property, to lease property, but more specifically, that constitutional
right included being able to leave something for your children's children.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And that is the right of a person to inherit.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
In other words, when we talk about economic development, we
talk about property as a source of economic development. Well,
what good would it do you to acquire property if
you can't leave it to your children's children, right, And
we talk about generational wealth, How can you have generational
wealth if you can't pass it on to the second generation.
So what happened again when some of our members tried
(09:34):
to apply for that money, try to apply for that
two point two billion dollars, they were told that if
you apply for the benefit of a deceased person, you
won't be able to fill out an application. Well, when
our members came to us, what do we do? We advocate,
We sue, We file lawsuits. Our attorney file lawsuits alleging
(09:57):
that USDA was discriminated against our members and depriving them
of a fundamental, basic constitutional right to inherit property. And
when they denied us, that hits the lawsuit that we file.
And as we said, the first judge denied us under
(10:20):
a doctrine called the Chevron doctrine, which just a little
bit of history. Yeah, that says, well, if a judge
has a plent if in its courtroom, and a defendant,
particularly if the defendant is a government agency, and if
there is a constitutional issue, a question regarding the constitution,
(10:42):
the federal judges on the chevron would do what they
call defer. It's kind of like in football, they would punt.
They would say, well, you know what, there may be
a constitutional issue, but we're going to allow the government
and its attorneys to decide the constitutionality of it. And
in this particular case, the government was the person we
(11:03):
were suing, so of course they would say, Congress didn't
intend for these heirs to benefit. Well, what is important
about that decision that I made reference to by the
Supreme Court on June June the twenty.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Eighth of last year, they outlawed that doctrine.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Judge Robertson, the head judges we call it the chief Judge,
the head judge in charge of all the judges, said no,
that doctrine is no longer constitutional. However, he said it's
not retroactive unless there is a pending complaint on the books.
(11:45):
And guests who was the oldest civil rights organization who
had a pending complaint on the books at that time,
and it was the Block Farmers and Agriculturalist Association, And
for that reason, then the Sixth Circuit Court of appill
is saying, Okay, now we want you your attorneys to
come to us to help us to resolve this controversy.
(12:10):
What's monumental about that bad and rally have individuals from
the African American community been able to go before a
court of this magnitude and to help that court decide
the constitutionality of a law basically that's been on the
(12:30):
books for one hundred and fifty years, because we know
now there may be some challenges to our constitutional rights.
There is a case out in or shall we say, Seattle,
where a judge is saying individuals from the Hispanic community
should have a right to stay here if they were
(12:50):
born in this country because of a constitutional protection for citizenship. Well,
we're arguing, if this is true with individals who may
be in this country, whether it's legal or otherwise, what
about Black folks who've been here at four hundred years?
There's no constitution about our citizenship rights. But you have
(13:12):
one judge saying the constitution is what it says, and
then another judge saying.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
That it's not.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It there is an exception to the rule. And one
of the things that the higher courts are always charged
to do is to see if there's a conflict between
what they call the circuits. In other words, the law
should be equally applied to all individuals. Now keep in mind,
and then, as my grandmother say, I'm gonna hush, as
it was the first time that the African American community
(13:44):
had an opportunity to weigh in as it were on
this Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six. Bell was
ninety years after there was passed in Montgomery, Alabama by
Miss Rosa Parks and doctor Martin Luther King contracting rights.
Miss Rosy gave the bus company a nickel so she
could go from point A to B.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
There was a contract.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And when Congress ninety years earlier in eighteen sixty six,
said you have the same right to contract as a
white person, then what's up? As the kids would say, well,
why do you have to give your seat up to
a white person? And that started, as we call it,
the civil rights movement. For Blockwokan civil rights Moore ors
(14:27):
was not so much sitting next to someone as it
was the right to contract. And so we are still
now today arguing that whether or not that law is
still good law. And that's the reason this is so monumental.
Now Here we are seventy years later after Miss Rose
(14:48):
and doctor Martin Luther King being called to a court
to argue the validity of the Civil Rights Act of
eighteen sixty six. And that's why this is so monumental.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I want to ask this question, mister Barrell, is that
they were denying black folks, those people who died and
they're to have to leave their kind of wealth to
their heirs. Yes, but white folks was getting all the time.
I mean, they didn't do that to them, did they.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
That's the whole problem. We'll ask you. Never, as a
matter of fact, the white community would be livid.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, No, at no point in time since this government
has recognized property rights, Okay, to include when we were
free from Great Britain in this revolutionary war in seventeen
seventy six, et cetera. Has an entity try to deny
(15:49):
a person the right to inherit property, gotcha, okay, let
alone a government agency. So this speaks squarely the right
to accumulate wealth. In order to be able to accumulate
wealth of course, you have to be able to contract
for that wealth. You want to leave a house, you
(16:10):
want to leave an insurance policy, whether the wealth is
physical or personal, whether it's land or whether it is
personal property.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
And then you want to be able to leave that
what to your children.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
The majority of the wealth in this country, if you
look at the United States, it's a thirty trillion dollar economy,
thirty trillion. The majority of that money is the result
of what people who died one hundred and fifty years ago,
the Ford family, Rockefeller, christ the Wise, You and I
(16:45):
try Daddy except Leaven something for their children's children. And
we are saying that this constitutes racial discrimination as per
the description of the Civil Rights Activating sixty six.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We are talking this afternoon. If you've just tuned in,
mister Thomas Barrell, president of the Black Farmers and Agricultures Association,
He's had said it this week on January thirty, if
they will be presenting their all arguments before the Sixth
Circuit Court in Cincinnati for the benefit of black farmers.
And I'm just if you are a black farmer of
(17:22):
your folks at property and you need to know if
you have a question for mister Barrell, Now is the
time for you to talk nine zero one five three five,
nine three four two nine zero one five three five,
nine three four two eight hundred five zero three nine
three four two eight three three five three five nine
(17:45):
three four two will get you in to us. You're
listening to Double You d Ia the beth Esensial ladies
(18:07):
and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
You're listening to the Queen of Talk, Bev Johnson on
w d I A. You're listening to the Bev JO
(19:00):
on some show. Here's Beb Johnson and.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
We're talking with mister Thomas Morell, president of the Black
Farmers and Agriculturals Association, Incorporated, going to our phone lines
to talk with you. Thank you all so much for waiting.
Hi Charlotte, Hi, Hi On.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Are you I'm good her?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Are you I'm doing fabulous today? What do you say?
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Wonderful? Wonderful? I am too. I got a couple of
questions that I want to ask concerning the Black farmers.
I actually live in Arkansas, and I do know they
had around where they had did a suit over here
as well, and I was trying to see if it
(19:45):
was too late to apply. If my parents are deceased.
I'm trying to see if we could still apply for them.
And also I want to know if you applied and
the fifty thousand dollars, can you apply for the second round?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yes, Charlotte, thank you so very much. Her question two
fold is that she would be filing for the benefit of.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
A deceased person.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Specifically, this lawsuit that we file bad was for individuals
like Charlotte.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Keep in mind the majority of block farmers and raptures
for the most part, are deceased. Okay, that's not to
say we don't have any currently, but particularly when Congress
in this legislation said that a person could file on
behalf of a benefit of a person going all the
way back from twenty to twenty one backwards. They didn't
(20:45):
give a cutoff date. That's important, Okay. So therefore, people
perhaps in the sixties, the seventies, the eighties to fifties,
may to the extent that we're talking fifty sixty years ago,
would be deceased. On the one hand, so when these
individuals who were the children like Charlotte. If Charlotte had
(21:07):
gone to this session to try to participate in the
two point two billion and once she indicated that she
was there to file on behalf of a deceased person,
she would have been what we call submarily denied, no
questions asked. Okay, Now, let's say if she was filing
(21:30):
for two individuals, a father and a brother, and if
the brother were still alive, he would have been able
to go to apply, but if the other brother, let's say,
in her case, her father, she would not. And we
are arguing that that is a violation of a person's
(21:50):
right to inherit property. Most people don't think of the
lawsuits settlement as property, but it is property.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
It goes to your.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Person's estate, whether it's fifty thousand from a lawsuit or etc.
If that person was otherwise discriminated against when they were
live by USDA and they are now deceased, if they
have a property interest in this settlement, then their children
(22:21):
should be able to because of the guarantee that this
country made in eighteen sixty six to African Americans that
now you will have the right to quote unquote inherit property. Okay,
So that's what the basic argument is going to be
about Thursday. Charlotte's first question. Charlotte's second question is equally important,
(22:46):
because she says, let's assume, for the sake of illustration,
that we got the fifty thousand dollars he's talking about,
perhaps and pick for the one to pick for two. However,
in this particular settlement, Congress didn't not say that a person.
As a matter of fact, they expressly said that even
if you were paid in Pick for one or a
(23:07):
previous lawsuit, you would still be able to show think
about it, if you were still the victims of discrimination.
Pickford ended in two thy twenty five years ago. USDA
has still since discriminated against African Americans. So if they
continue to discriminate against then the law says they should
(23:29):
be continued to be basically sued. So the answer to
her question is yes, and yes, you got yees, I
got it.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
I really appreciate that. So my last question is in Arkansas,
is there a particular place that we can contact to
get more information on how to apply for additional amounts
or whatever?
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Is there a place we can call Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That's perhaps the third best question that could be asking.
Keep in mind now what I said earlier, Charlotte. When
Chief Judge Roberts made this decision, he said it would
be for those organizations who have.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
A quote unquote pending claim.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, the only civil rights organization advocating for black folk
at that time is the Black Farmers and Agriculturalist Association.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
So the argument is then you would have to be
a member.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Of that association, because that's the association that Congress that
the Court of Appeals is.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Asking to come to show where your members.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Now, A were discriminated against by USDA, and B should
be compensated. Yes, the place to call is the number
at the Block farm as an Agriculturalist Association, which is
nine oh one five two two eight eight eight zero.
Nine oh one five two two eight eight eight zero.
(25:17):
More specifically, Charlotte, we also are holding zoom meetings for
the benefit of individuals. And she said something also bad
when she says Arkansas. We appreciate her for that. However,
this is a federal lawsuit. It doesn't matter if you're
an Arkansas, Tennessee's MISSISSII or Georgia.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Hey, that's the other part.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
So in other words, the sixth Circuit simply is the
circuit that covers where the first judge denied us.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
But if you remember what Rosa parks.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
When the outlawed segregation and buses in Alabama, it applied
to every other state, so it was not just for Alabama.
The benefit of the individuals riding a bus in Alabama.
It is a and this is why this is so
monumental because of the impact that it will have for
all citizens, particularly in the African American community, whether you're
(26:16):
in Texas, Tennessee, Mississippi, missouriro or Michigan.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
One of our other states.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
So you good, Charlie. So Charlotte, you got the number, right,
I got the number.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
And I appreciate this so much, and this information is
very beneficial. And I really appreciate you all having this
on the show because I know this has been going
on for a while and I know some people really
have been left out. So this is very important to
my family and I appreciate you all putting this on
the air.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Thank you, Charlotte. Yeah, Charlotte, thanks.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
Thanks to both of you.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
All right, thanks so.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Much, God missus. Burrels.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You can go to our website which is w W
W dot B like boy Frank like b F A
A I.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
N C dot com. Any Yeah, answer Burrell, Yeah, b
F A A I N c dot com. That's the website, Charlotte, and.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I'm holding weekly zoom meetings also bad for the benefit
of those who may have further questions regarding this some matter.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
So so so, mister Barrell with the zoom meetings, do
they need to go to the website to see the
dates that you're having the zoom meeting?
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Okay? Thank you bad for that?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Okay, yes, and so I'm glad you said that, mister Brail.
Is now for the folks who live in Tennessee. This
is for you know, your folks were black farmers or whatever.
You need to get on board. You need to get
on board with the Black Farmers and Agriculture Association first
of all.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, but almost always there will be an association. Huh
that will accord will ask to come think about it.
With Miss Rosa Parks, it was the NAACP, right, Okay.
Here the situation out with the Hispanics being denied citizenship
(28:15):
under the fourteenth Amendment, it's the ACLU. It's almost always
going to be an association or a group or a
union that will file a lawsuit or file for the
benefit of aggrieved individuals, and normally it is that association.
Then that the course would ask to come to explain this,
(28:39):
rather than having the individual members to come. So, as
it were with the brown versus the Board of Education,
it was the NAACP. As it was with Browner versus
gay L Miss Rosa Park, it was the NAACP. Here
it is seventy years later. There's this question regarding the
constitutionality of black folk. This is why this is so important,
(29:01):
because if you're going to deny a black person the
right to inherit the benefit of a lawsuit, are you
going to deny them now the right to inherit a
house or a car, or a bank account or furniture.
This is frightening, This is foreboding, This is scary. Yeah, okay,
we cannot allow, particularly be a government agency of all
(29:24):
entities trying to deprive us of the right to leave something.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
As the Good Book says to your children's children.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Mister Barrell, before we get out of here, have a
question for PJ. Says mister Barrell. I pray this presidential
administration does not interfere. What is what he is doing?
Do you feel this new administration may try to stop this?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Well, we're getting this question a lot, okay, particularly as
I said earlier regarding this current administration as it relates
to deporting individuals who may otherwise have been born in
the United States. Okay, keep in mind, though our lawsuit
(30:10):
falls under, shall we say, a decision that the Supreme
Court rendered over a year ago, this administration does not
have the power to prevent under the separation of powers
as it were, does not have the right to deprive
(30:31):
us of this right. But now here's what's important now.
This situation to deny black farmers the right to inherit
is not just unique to this administration. It happened in
the previous setministrations. Okay, politics notwithstanding, which makes this all
the more frightening. So we can't just say that ex
(30:54):
administration is depriving us of our constitutions.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Right. We need to look at all atministration.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And that's why it's important to have an association who
would otherwise, which is otherwise advocating for its members, so
we can watch whether the threat is coming from the
right or whether the threat is coming from the left.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Okay, and lastly, mister Barrell, again, you will be in
court on Thursday. What do you hope will happen?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Will be in court this coming Thursday in Cincinnati, Ohio,
at the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, And here's what
we're hoping that will happen. We're hoping that after our
attorneys continue or complete they're all arguments, the court will
look at the briefs that have been filed and determine
that yes, indeed Congress intended when it created the Civil
(31:47):
Rights Act of eighteen sixty six, they Congress said it
also will benefit of person's heirs the right to inherit.
That law has not changed, that law has not been repealed,
and we're asking, we hope that the Sixth Circuit will
rule in our favor and direct the judge here in
(32:08):
this federal district and USDA to reopen key phrase, reopen
this lawsuit. The court has what is called remedial powers,
that is to say, they can add even more money,
so it could be five billion, it could be an
additional sum to compensate those individuals that Charlotte made reference to. Yeah, okay,
(32:31):
who otherwise didn't get an opportunity to do. That's going
to be our argument. That's our hope, and we believe,
we know the Constitution is on our side, and we're
praying right now that the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals
will uphold the constitution.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Sounds good. Any last words, mister Burrell, you'd like to
give to our listeners and be before you go again,
give that telephone number and the website please.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Our telephone number at the Block Farmers and Agriculturalist Association
is nine zero one five two two eight eight eight
zero nine o one five two to eight eight eight zero.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
The website is www dot b F A a i
NC dot com. Bellie.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
We appreciate you Bear for being able to allow us
to use your platform. As you can see by the
cause this information is important, yes, and that's one of
the problems that we're having. We don't have the platforms
necessary to get this vital information out. You've been so generous,
as I've always said, and so gracious with your time.
We just thank you so very much for allowing us
(33:44):
to share this information with the public at large and
the members of Block Farmers and Agriculturalis Association in particular.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Well, thank you, mister Barrell. And I'm praying hey that
you all do well on Thursday in Cincinnati. You do well?
Are you gonna do well?
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I'm putting it out there. Hey, it's gonna be something.
Mister Thomas Morell, y'all, the president of the Black Farmers
and Agricultures Association, Incorporated. Thank you so much. Thank you
callers and listeners. You know I appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
You know I do.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Again, I want to thank you callers, thank you listeners
for joining us this day on the Bev Johnson Show.
We do, we really do appreciate you. So until tomorrow,
please be safe, keep a cool head, y'all, don't let
anyone steal your joy. Until tomorrow, I'm Bev Johnson, and
(34:42):
y'all keep the faith.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
The views and opinions discussed on The Bev Johnson Show
are that of the hosts and callers and not those
of the staff and sponsors of WTIA.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
The
Beep, justn't show bell jumping time.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
With this talking and home away.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Help you go, you go? Don't getting ready to go?
Speaker 4 (00:13):
It's time said show bet Joe.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Let's go bell.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Just then we you'll make your ody by here wrong DoD.
Listen to what to say. You know it's tap of
the bell to show Tampa the belt of show like
let's go.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Good afternoon and welcome back to the second half of
the Beth Johnson Show here at WDIA. It is Monday,
January twenty seventh, twenty twenty five. Enjoyed this fabulous day today.
Before we get ready to talk to my next guest,
let me tell you about my sister friend. You know her.
I've been telling you about the exclusive all State exclusive
(01:27):
insurance agent. She's my sister friend, Michelle Hayes Thomas. Now
Michelle Hayes Thomas can help you if you need insurance.
You need home insurance, car insurance, a motorcycle or boat insurance.
Michelle has that for you. She even has pet insurance
(01:47):
or life insurance that can help you out. Yeah, you
can get insurance for your pet. Did y'all know that?
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You can. And also Michelle has landlord coverage with great
prices for land and if you are a renter, she
has renter insurance as low as twenty dollars a month,
term life insurance policies for adults up to age eighty five,
life insurance policies that they don't even require y'all a
(02:16):
health exam, and Michelle says she has life insurance policies
that will cover customers with pre existing health conditions. Now,
you know you don't get a lot of insurance plans
like that. So if you need some insurance and it's
gonna be All State, give Michelle a call. Nine zero
one nine three zero zero three two nine. That's nine
(02:38):
zero one nine three zero zero three two nine. Call
Michelle Hayes Thomas for all your insurance needs. Let her
evaluate your current insurance policies to make sure you have
the proper coverage that you need to protect yourself and
your most valuable assets. So give her a call once again.
(03:02):
Michelle Hayes Thomas nine zero one nine three zero zero
three two nine. That's nine zero one nine three zero
zero three two nine. Michelle Hayes Thomas, your exclusive All
State agent. We are back a special guest. He's in
(03:33):
the house for the first time this new year, he's
gonna give us the good news once again. I like
to say, Happy New Year, Good afternoon to my friend
mister Thomas Barrell, president of the Black Farmers and Agricultures Association.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
How you doing.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
A happy new year, mister Barrell. How you doing?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Oh, Happy New Years to you as well. We appreciate
you and thank you for allowing us to privilege your
valuable and important time.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, thank you, mister Morell. I appreciate you. You know
I hadn't seen you last year. You came in and
told us all things, because you know you're advocate for
those farmers. But mister Barrell, you have some good news
going on today.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh yes, we do, indeed, bev and we have some
extremely good news, monumental news.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The last time we were here, we talked about the
fact that we had filed Lisa, our attorneys for the
benefit of our members, a complaint in the Federal District
Court here in Memphis, Tennessee. That was denied and then
we file and timely appeal to the US six Circuit
(04:45):
Court of Appeals in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
And it was on whole.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
The last time we met, however, a couple of important
things happened since.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Then, Okay bev.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And that is on June June the twenty eighth last year,
while our lawsuit was pending, the Supreme Court came down,
particularly the Chief Justice John Roberts, and made a landmark
ruling that favored Beefa's position. And as a result of that,
(05:17):
then the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals has asked our
attorneys to meet them this coming Thursday, January the thirtieth,
talk about a new year's president January the thirtieth, which
is this coming Thursday, and Cincinnati, Ohio BEV to make
(05:39):
what they referred to as oral arguments regarding our emotion
against the Department of Agriculture for violating a constitutional statute
that was created for block folks over one hundred and
fifty years ago, a civil rights statute that does, among
(06:01):
other things, allow black folks to contract for property and
more specifically, to leave that property to their sons and daughters,
or to their heirs or to their children.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
So we're just excited.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Our members are coming by plane, by bus, they're driving cars.
We're all going to be in Cincinnati this Thursday hear
our attorney make those oral arguments.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
This is monumental.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Rarely, rarely, rather will individuals in African American community get
an opportunity to make oral arguments to a court of
this magnitude. Right, So.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Kind of go back, mister Barrell. For those who are
listening and don't understand what this lawsuit and why you
all brought this lawsuit, I mean, what happened?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Thank you Beverle for put it be on that track.
What happened? A little bit of history.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yes, as you know, the Black Farmers and Agriculturalist Association,
we are an ad vote could see association, particularly in
the area of civil rights for the sons and daughters
and black farmers and black ranchers, etc. The Congress created
an opportunity a couple of years ago called the Inflation
and Reduction Act, and they set aside two point two
(07:18):
billion dollars for individuals, particularly in the African American community
BEV who believed that they were the victims of discrimination
by the Department of Agriculture. So, in other words, over
the last twenty five years, the Department of Agriculture has
had to pay out about ten billion dollars. The first
(07:39):
lawsuit was Pickfoot one. A lot of black folks got
fifty thousand dollars, then they would pick for two. Now
they're still being slapped on the risks, as it were,
for continuing to violate our constitutional rights. Congress set aside
additional moneys. However, what USDA did in this particular instance
(08:00):
is one a child or a son and or a
daughter of a person who was otherwise discriminated against, who
would have been entitled to a part of that two
point du bedia but was deceased. Then USDA says, well,
we will pay the individuals the victims who are yet alive,
(08:21):
but we're not going to pay the sons and daughters
of the victims who are deceased. And we argued at
that point that when Congress created the Civil Rights Act
of eighteen sixty six, I know we have to go
all the way back to Yese. They included specifically the
right not only to the contract for property, and that's
(08:44):
how black folks were able to buy and purchase over
twenty million acres. But not only would they have the right,
African Americans have the right to contract for property, to
sell property, to lease property, but more specifically, that constitutional
right included being able to leave something for your children's children.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And that is the right of a person to inherit.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
In other words, when we talk about economic development, we
talk about property as a source of economic development. Well,
what good would it do you to acquire property if
you can't leave it to your children's children, right, And
we talk about generational wealth, How can you have generational
wealth if you can't pass it on to the second generation.
So what happened again when some of our members tried
(09:34):
to apply for that money, try to apply for that
two point two billion dollars, they were told that if
you apply for the benefit of a deceased person, you
won't be able to fill out an application. Well, when
our members came to us, what do we do? We advocate,
We sue, We file lawsuits. Our attorney file lawsuits alleging
(09:57):
that USDA was discriminated against our members and depriving them
of a fundamental, basic constitutional right to inherit property. And
when they denied us, that hits the lawsuit that we file.
And as we said, the first judge denied us under
(10:20):
a doctrine called the Chevron doctrine, which just a little
bit of history. Yeah, that says, well, if a judge
has a plent if in its courtroom, and a defendant,
particularly if the defendant is a government agency, and if
there is a constitutional issue, a question regarding the constitution,
(10:42):
the federal judges on the chevron would do what they
call defer. It's kind of like in football, they would punt.
They would say, well, you know what, there may be
a constitutional issue, but we're going to allow the government
and its attorneys to decide the constitutionality of it. And
in this particular case, the government was the person we
(11:03):
were suing, so of course they would say, Congress didn't
intend for these heirs to benefit. Well, what is important
about that decision that I made reference to by the
Supreme Court on June June the twenty.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Eighth of last year, they outlawed that doctrine.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Judge Robertson, the head judges we call it the chief Judge,
the head judge in charge of all the judges, said no,
that doctrine is no longer constitutional. However, he said it's
not retroactive unless there is a pending complaint on the books.
(11:45):
And guests who was the oldest civil rights organization who
had a pending complaint on the books at that time,
and it was the Block Farmers and Agriculturalist Association, And
for that reason, then the Sixth Circuit Court of appill
is saying, Okay, now we want you your attorneys to
come to us to help us to resolve this controversy.
(12:10):
What's monumental about that bad and rally have individuals from
the African American community been able to go before a
court of this magnitude and to help that court decide
the constitutionality of a law basically that's been on the
(12:30):
books for one hundred and fifty years, because we know
now there may be some challenges to our constitutional rights.
There is a case out in or shall we say, Seattle,
where a judge is saying individuals from the Hispanic community
should have a right to stay here if they were
(12:50):
born in this country because of a constitutional protection for citizenship. Well,
we're arguing, if this is true with individals who may
be in this country, whether it's legal or otherwise, what
about Black folks who've been here at four hundred years?
There's no constitution about our citizenship rights. But you have
(13:12):
one judge saying the constitution is what it says, and
then another judge saying.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
That it's not.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It there is an exception to the rule. And one
of the things that the higher courts are always charged
to do is to see if there's a conflict between
what they call the circuits. In other words, the law
should be equally applied to all individuals. Now keep in mind,
and then, as my grandmother say, I'm gonna hush, as
it was the first time that the African American community
(13:44):
had an opportunity to weigh in as it were on
this Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six. Bell was
ninety years after there was passed in Montgomery, Alabama by
Miss Rosa Parks and doctor Martin Luther King contracting rights.
Miss Rosy gave the bus company a nickel so she
could go from point A to B.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
There was a contract.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And when Congress ninety years earlier in eighteen sixty six,
said you have the same right to contract as a
white person, then what's up? As the kids would say, well,
why do you have to give your seat up to
a white person? And that started, as we call it,
the civil rights movement. For Blockwokan civil rights Moore ors
(14:27):
was not so much sitting next to someone as it
was the right to contract. And so we are still
now today arguing that whether or not that law is
still good law. And that's the reason this is so monumental.
Now Here we are seventy years later after Miss Rose
(14:48):
and doctor Martin Luther King being called to a court
to argue the validity of the Civil Rights Act of
eighteen sixty six. And that's why this is so monumental.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I want to ask this question, mister Barrell, is that
they were denying black folks, those people who died and
they're to have to leave their kind of wealth to
their heirs. Yes, but white folks was getting all the time.
I mean, they didn't do that to them, did they.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
That's the whole problem. We'll ask you. Never, as a
matter of fact, the white community would be livid.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, No, at no point in time since this government
has recognized property rights, Okay, to include when we were
free from Great Britain in this revolutionary war in seventeen
seventy six, et cetera. Has an entity try to deny
(15:49):
a person the right to inherit property, gotcha, okay, let
alone a government agency. So this speaks squarely the right
to accumulate wealth. In order to be able to accumulate
wealth of course, you have to be able to contract
for that wealth. You want to leave a house, you
(16:10):
want to leave an insurance policy, whether the wealth is
physical or personal, whether it's land or whether it is
personal property.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
And then you want to be able to leave that
what to your children.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
The majority of the wealth in this country, if you
look at the United States, it's a thirty trillion dollar economy,
thirty trillion. The majority of that money is the result
of what people who died one hundred and fifty years ago,
the Ford family, Rockefeller, christ the Wise, You and I
(16:45):
try Daddy except Leaven something for their children's children. And
we are saying that this constitutes racial discrimination as per
the description of the Civil Rights Activating sixty six.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We are talking this afternoon. If you've just tuned in,
mister Thomas Barrell, president of the Black Farmers and Agricultures Association,
He's had said it this week on January thirty, if
they will be presenting their all arguments before the Sixth
Circuit Court in Cincinnati for the benefit of black farmers.
And I'm just if you are a black farmer of
(17:22):
your folks at property and you need to know if
you have a question for mister Barrell, Now is the
time for you to talk nine zero one five three five,
nine three four two nine zero one five three five,
nine three four two eight hundred five zero three nine
three four two eight three three five three five nine
(17:45):
three four two will get you in to us. You're
listening to Double You d Ia the beth Esensial ladies
(18:07):
and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
You're listening to the Queen of Talk, Bev Johnson on
w d I A. You're listening to the Bev JO
(19:00):
on some show. Here's Beb Johnson and.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
We're talking with mister Thomas Morell, president of the Black
Farmers and Agriculturals Association, Incorporated, going to our phone lines
to talk with you. Thank you all so much for waiting.
Hi Charlotte, Hi, Hi On.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Are you I'm good her?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Are you I'm doing fabulous today? What do you say?
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Wonderful? Wonderful? I am too. I got a couple of
questions that I want to ask concerning the Black farmers.
I actually live in Arkansas, and I do know they
had around where they had did a suit over here
as well, and I was trying to see if it
(19:45):
was too late to apply. If my parents are deceased.
I'm trying to see if we could still apply for them.
And also I want to know if you applied and
the fifty thousand dollars, can you apply for the second round?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yes, Charlotte, thank you so very much. Her question two
fold is that she would be filing for the benefit of.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
A deceased person.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Specifically, this lawsuit that we file bad was for individuals
like Charlotte.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Keep in mind the majority of block farmers and raptures
for the most part, are deceased. Okay, that's not to
say we don't have any currently, but particularly when Congress
in this legislation said that a person could file on
behalf of a benefit of a person going all the
way back from twenty to twenty one backwards. They didn't
(20:45):
give a cutoff date. That's important, Okay. So therefore, people
perhaps in the sixties, the seventies, the eighties to fifties,
may to the extent that we're talking fifty sixty years ago,
would be deceased. On the one hand, so when these
individuals who were the children like Charlotte. If Charlotte had
(21:07):
gone to this session to try to participate in the
two point two billion and once she indicated that she
was there to file on behalf of a deceased person,
she would have been what we call submarily denied, no
questions asked. Okay, Now, let's say if she was filing
(21:30):
for two individuals, a father and a brother, and if
the brother were still alive, he would have been able
to go to apply, but if the other brother, let's say,
in her case, her father, she would not. And we
are arguing that that is a violation of a person's
(21:50):
right to inherit property. Most people don't think of the
lawsuits settlement as property, but it is property.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
It goes to your.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Person's estate, whether it's fifty thousand from a lawsuit or etc.
If that person was otherwise discriminated against when they were
live by USDA and they are now deceased, if they
have a property interest in this settlement, then their children
(22:21):
should be able to because of the guarantee that this
country made in eighteen sixty six to African Americans that
now you will have the right to quote unquote inherit property. Okay,
So that's what the basic argument is going to be
about Thursday. Charlotte's first question. Charlotte's second question is equally important,
(22:46):
because she says, let's assume, for the sake of illustration,
that we got the fifty thousand dollars he's talking about,
perhaps and pick for the one to pick for two. However,
in this particular settlement, Congress didn't not say that a person.
As a matter of fact, they expressly said that even
if you were paid in Pick for one or a
(23:07):
previous lawsuit, you would still be able to show think
about it, if you were still the victims of discrimination.
Pickford ended in two thy twenty five years ago. USDA
has still since discriminated against African Americans. So if they
continue to discriminate against then the law says they should
(23:29):
be continued to be basically sued. So the answer to
her question is yes, and yes, you got yees, I
got it.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
I really appreciate that. So my last question is in Arkansas,
is there a particular place that we can contact to
get more information on how to apply for additional amounts
or whatever?
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Is there a place we can call Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That's perhaps the third best question that could be asking.
Keep in mind now what I said earlier, Charlotte. When
Chief Judge Roberts made this decision, he said it would
be for those organizations who have.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
A quote unquote pending claim.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, the only civil rights organization advocating for black folk
at that time is the Black Farmers and Agriculturalist Association.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
So the argument is then you would have to be
a member.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Of that association, because that's the association that Congress that
the Court of Appeals is.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Asking to come to show where your members.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Now, A were discriminated against by USDA, and B should
be compensated. Yes, the place to call is the number
at the Block farm as an Agriculturalist Association, which is
nine oh one five two two eight eight eight zero.
Nine oh one five two two eight eight eight zero.
(25:17):
More specifically, Charlotte, we also are holding zoom meetings for
the benefit of individuals. And she said something also bad
when she says Arkansas. We appreciate her for that. However,
this is a federal lawsuit. It doesn't matter if you're
an Arkansas, Tennessee's MISSISSII or Georgia.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Hey, that's the other part.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
So in other words, the sixth Circuit simply is the
circuit that covers where the first judge denied us.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
But if you remember what Rosa parks.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
When the outlawed segregation and buses in Alabama, it applied
to every other state, so it was not just for Alabama.
The benefit of the individuals riding a bus in Alabama.
It is a and this is why this is so
monumental because of the impact that it will have for
all citizens, particularly in the African American community, whether you're
(26:16):
in Texas, Tennessee, Mississippi, missouriro or Michigan.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
One of our other states.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
So you good, Charlie. So Charlotte, you got the number, right,
I got the number.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
And I appreciate this so much, and this information is
very beneficial. And I really appreciate you all having this
on the show because I know this has been going
on for a while and I know some people really
have been left out. So this is very important to
my family and I appreciate you all putting this on
the air.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Thank you, Charlotte. Yeah, Charlotte, thanks.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
Thanks to both of you.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
All right, thanks so.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Much, God missus. Burrels.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You can go to our website which is w W
W dot B like boy Frank like b F A
A I.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
N C dot com. Any Yeah, answer Burrell, Yeah, b
F A A I N c dot com. That's the website, Charlotte, and.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I'm holding weekly zoom meetings also bad for the benefit
of those who may have further questions regarding this some matter.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
So so so, mister Barrell with the zoom meetings, do
they need to go to the website to see the
dates that you're having the zoom meeting?
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Okay? Thank you bad for that?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Okay, yes, and so I'm glad you said that, mister Brail.
Is now for the folks who live in Tennessee. This
is for you know, your folks were black farmers or whatever.
You need to get on board. You need to get
on board with the Black Farmers and Agriculture Association first
of all.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, but almost always there will be an association. Huh
that will accord will ask to come think about it.
With Miss Rosa Parks, it was the NAACP, right, Okay.
Here the situation out with the Hispanics being denied citizenship
(28:15):
under the fourteenth Amendment, it's the ACLU. It's almost always
going to be an association or a group or a
union that will file a lawsuit or file for the
benefit of aggrieved individuals, and normally it is that association.
Then that the course would ask to come to explain this,
(28:39):
rather than having the individual members to come. So, as
it were with the brown versus the Board of Education,
it was the NAACP. As it was with Browner versus
gay L Miss Rosa Park, it was the NAACP. Here
it is seventy years later. There's this question regarding the
constitutionality of black folk. This is why this is so important,
(29:01):
because if you're going to deny a black person the
right to inherit the benefit of a lawsuit, are you
going to deny them now the right to inherit a
house or a car, or a bank account or furniture.
This is frightening, This is foreboding, This is scary. Yeah, okay,
we cannot allow, particularly be a government agency of all
(29:24):
entities trying to deprive us of the right to leave something.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
As the Good Book says to your children's children.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Mister Barrell, before we get out of here, have a
question for PJ. Says mister Barrell. I pray this presidential
administration does not interfere. What is what he is doing?
Do you feel this new administration may try to stop this?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Well, we're getting this question a lot, okay, particularly as
I said earlier regarding this current administration as it relates
to deporting individuals who may otherwise have been born in
the United States. Okay, keep in mind, though our lawsuit
(30:10):
falls under, shall we say, a decision that the Supreme
Court rendered over a year ago, this administration does not
have the power to prevent under the separation of powers
as it were, does not have the right to deprive
(30:31):
us of this right. But now here's what's important now.
This situation to deny black farmers the right to inherit
is not just unique to this administration. It happened in
the previous setministrations. Okay, politics notwithstanding, which makes this all
the more frightening. So we can't just say that ex
(30:54):
administration is depriving us of our constitutions.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Right. We need to look at all atministration.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And that's why it's important to have an association who
would otherwise, which is otherwise advocating for its members, so
we can watch whether the threat is coming from the
right or whether the threat is coming from the left.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Okay, and lastly, mister Barrell, again, you will be in
court on Thursday. What do you hope will happen?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Will be in court this coming Thursday in Cincinnati, Ohio,
at the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, And here's what
we're hoping that will happen. We're hoping that after our
attorneys continue or complete they're all arguments, the court will
look at the briefs that have been filed and determine
that yes, indeed Congress intended when it created the Civil
(31:47):
Rights Act of eighteen sixty six, they Congress said it
also will benefit of person's heirs the right to inherit.
That law has not changed, that law has not been repealed,
and we're asking, we hope that the Sixth Circuit will
rule in our favor and direct the judge here in
(32:08):
this federal district and USDA to reopen key phrase, reopen
this lawsuit. The court has what is called remedial powers,
that is to say, they can add even more money,
so it could be five billion, it could be an
additional sum to compensate those individuals that Charlotte made reference to. Yeah, okay,
(32:31):
who otherwise didn't get an opportunity to do. That's going
to be our argument. That's our hope, and we believe,
we know the Constitution is on our side, and we're
praying right now that the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals
will uphold the constitution.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Sounds good. Any last words, mister Burrell, you'd like to
give to our listeners and be before you go again,
give that telephone number and the website please.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Our telephone number at the Block Farmers and Agriculturalist Association
is nine zero one five two two eight eight eight
zero nine o one five two to eight eight eight zero.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
The website is www dot b F A a i
NC dot com. Bellie.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
We appreciate you Bear for being able to allow us
to use your platform. As you can see by the
cause this information is important, yes, and that's one of
the problems that we're having. We don't have the platforms
necessary to get this vital information out. You've been so generous,
as I've always said, and so gracious with your time.
We just thank you so very much for allowing us
(33:44):
to share this information with the public at large and
the members of Block Farmers and Agriculturalis Association in particular.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Well, thank you, mister Barrell. And I'm praying hey that
you all do well on Thursday in Cincinnati. You do well?
Are you gonna do well?
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I'm putting it out there. Hey, it's gonna be something.
Mister Thomas Morell, y'all, the president of the Black Farmers
and Agricultures Association, Incorporated. Thank you so much. Thank you
callers and listeners. You know I appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
You know I do.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Again, I want to thank you callers, thank you listeners
for joining us this day on the Bev Johnson Show.
We do, we really do appreciate you. So until tomorrow,
please be safe, keep a cool head, y'all, don't let
anyone steal your joy. Until tomorrow, I'm Bev Johnson, and
(34:42):
y'all keep the faith.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
The views and opinions discussed on The Bev Johnson Show
are that of the hosts and callers and not those
of the staff and sponsors of WTIA.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
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