101 - Live At The Majestic Theatre in Dallas

Karen and Georgia cover cult leader Terri Hoffman and the case of Sandra Bridewell.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
What's that Dallas? Wow, I'm pretty sure I saw ufo.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, did you see that? It's an assortment of lights.
A lot going on, There's so much.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Oh, I knew, it's so exciting.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
This is our third and best show in Dallas.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh, I ruined it. My pockets out. I ruined it.
It's no longer the best show.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Let's let's start over. God, damn it. Take it from
the top.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
This shirt needs to be burned. Let's just say that.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah. I didn't even give a passover. No, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
There's hair, there's the tears, sweat of others and myself combined.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
I realized all the clothes I brought to Texas smell
like barbecue. And I haven't even been in a barbecue restaurant.
It's not like I've been in a restaurant. It's even
things backstage and in the hotel room.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, and yet, and also, where was the picture that
you sent me today?

Speaker 3 (01:46):
I sent her.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
A photo of a troth of mac and cheese close up,
very close up. It was a close up that was
actually just Whole Foods, but I just thought it would
be a good because we didn't like text that morning,
we hadn't text it all day, so I was like,
this will be a funny thing just to send someone
random Lanta.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
But then after that, fuck you guys. Okay did you
just say fuck you?

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Guys?

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Said Dallas. They all mad at you.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
No fuck comment you guys.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Okay, No, because all right, love I love La. However
I had to move somewhere. It would be a place
that has a really fucking good barbecue in a gas station.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Would that gas station be our friend Bucky's gas station? Yeah,
that's right, we know the lingo. Now we can fucking
speak your language.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Bucky Nuggets one thousand, Yeah, I ate.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Those two today. Oh so good? How can you not?

Speaker 4 (02:52):
I mean, it's like cotton candy in your mouth. But Beavers,
but Beaver's.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Shopus.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
This is supposed to be the best shoe.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Was it really at the gas station?

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, there's a fucking just whatever gas station And then
there's a barbecue place on a drive through in the
gas station, and it was like really good barbecue.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Were you still asleep?

Speaker 4 (03:20):
And then I took it back to the hotel room
and sat and ate barbecue in the hotel room. Yeah,
and we Vince watched football and I was just like,
this is my life.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Then I loved my life. This is the life.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
Free glass of rose from the downstairs hotel area.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Oh did you go mingle?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I know, I fucking grab a glass of wine and.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Went upstairs to eat my barbecue, and Pete, You're like,
do you have any pictures or large containers? Maybe a
flower vase that I could take with me.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I don't want to mix with these beings.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Did really disappoint me in our marriage though, because no,
and like this is you know, he's amazing.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
But I went to the They're like, they pour you glass.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Don't like rose, It's like two to six Rose hour
or whatever the fuck. And then the guy goes to
pour two glasses and he goes, oh, no, just one,
I don't want one, And I was like.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
No, dude, you get a second glass. Team playing yeah
at all times, but it probably was a sign of
your drinking too much. Do you think he was quietly
judging you? Now he wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now with counterpoint, Vince, you just just talk massive shit
on him, and then I'd like, hand the microphone over. Well,
that's interesting. I have nothing to say about it.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Maybe Vince does. Finally on the.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Ground there is he's down in the he's down in
the little opera spot where you all call for your
line down in the old This is an old theater reference.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
I'm making.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Only certain people understand. I want to know what I did. Yes,
I got a massage.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Oh, I know in the hotel. Fancy right, amazing.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's so much easier to communicate with you when we
have this crab like clasp on each other.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
The intensity of that. Yes, it's a conduit.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
So I called down. I look, this is brilliant. If
you have a business that has you offer two things
that don't go together, put them on the same menu.
Because as I was ordering breakfast, I was like, oh, massages.
It was right fucking there, which I've never seen before.
And I'm so smart. I was like, I want oatmeal. Oh,
and I want someone to rub my back. Yes, And

(05:36):
at this place they have four hand massage, which means
two people massage you at one time.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
I feel like that that's a creepy way to say that,
fourhand massage.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
What isn't a creepy way to explain what that might be?

Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah, I feel like, hey, two people massage you at
the same time. Okay, four hands from.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Who knows where, coming up out of woods in the ground.
They're all strangely silver and gray. Don't worry about it,
your face down.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, what species of hands are we talking about? But
two people? Oh interesting, you say that monkey hands.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
That's when you read this small print, monkey and raccoon hands.
So one's too small and one's too strong and.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Could kill you.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
That'd be pretty cute movie Sweet until you die, right right?

Speaker 2 (06:31):
I am so catholic.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
I could not order the forehand massage.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I was like, that's not right. I can't. I can't
ask for that.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
That's too much enjoyment in this life.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Who am I?

Speaker 4 (06:46):
I think that's the perfect way though, to like treat
yourself without guilt is always have one thing that's too much.
So like even if you want, like, well, I'm not
going to get a Lexis, I'll just get a what's
one step down from lexus?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Oh, clearly it's it's a dodge.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
Charger, Yes, but what you really wanted was the dodge
charger to begin with.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh, you inside your mind, you're doing all of this,
or to someone on the street, to yourself, okay, writing
it on paper, or just this is a mental situation.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
Have your Jewish friend tell you that you're worth it
and you deserve it.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Come on, because that's how we are. That's our new thing.
That's our new campaign. Everyone get a Jewish friend because
she'll say, you know, I think you can.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
I can justify any purchase for anyone in a way
that makes you like proud, like, yeah, you're right. I
should get that, Alexa, I don't know, right, I should
get a raccoon palmisan.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
I deserve deserve it. She's right.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
I work hard, imagine, because you've seen raccoons wash their
food right, and it's so thorough and fast.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
The little they do that, the little.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
But it's on your shoulder and they stare at you.
Did ever tell you about that time?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
I thought?

Speaker 1 (08:05):
This was right before I got my dog George, and
I was here. I was by myself in my house,
and I would hear shit every night and just be like,
here we go.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
This is it. I knew it.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Here we go every fucking night. That's when I started
sleeping in front of the TV because anytime I would
go into my bed there would be some weird noise.
I'd be like, great dead, I had that party tomorrow,
But now I'm going to be murdered. So but I
always knew I was, You know that it was probably

(08:35):
just all that shit they say, the house settling or
a man living in your attic, or whatever the things
people tell you. Yeah, but this one night I hear
a sound that I swear to God.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
This sound.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
What I pictured in my mind when I heard it
was someone through an old fashioned word processor against the
back wall.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Of my house.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
I don't know why, but that's exactly what. It sounded like,
a huge crash, a crash with plastic involved.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Like an outdated electronic machine crash.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
It was like one of the guys from Office Space.
Instead of this, they were like this. It was that
feel that's scary. It fucking scared the shit at me. Right,
So I go to check and we we used to
have a cat.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Mm. I never talk about him. His name is Angus.
Don't mention it to me.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
My cat Angus, who was fairal awful long hair, which
is the fucking worst and a pet of any breed.
Mean he I watched him almost scratch off. I've told
you that story where he's hiding. There was like something
leaned against the wall, and my eighteen month old niece

(09:49):
went and was like, let's stay over here. And right
as she leaned down the cat, Paul was like this
with all nails out toward face. Yeah, and that's what
he ran and just picked her up really fast. So
it was it was like one of those like it.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Was a matrixy this but she wasn't leaning. It was
just guys. Anyway.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
I can't remember the story I was telling. Oh, because
so we had this built in cat door. Oh no,
don't do that right, So in my mind, I'm like, well,
someone with the longest arm ever reached through it, and
it's like that's already what.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I was thinking, was it.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Yes, someone else, someone with an arm long arm could
just help come in and lock it.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
The long arm bandit, it's coming.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
It's a it's a raccoon that grew up in your
nuclear test facility. That's not his faulty has those long arms.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
One long arm was just the one. So there's a
crazy limp. Yeah, the fastest hands.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, So I get over there, and of course I
think it's someone trying to like physically break into the
back door. And when I get to the back door,
I flip the porch light on and there's a raccoon
who is just coming back out of the cat door,
so like he had gone. He had gone I think
halfway into it and then come back out really fast.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
He must have heard a noise or something.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, And so when I'm standing there, he flicked the
light on, and the raccoon is like trying to figure
out a way to go back, like reapproach it. And
when the light flicks on, he goes like this.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
He goes.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
And then just fucking stares me down, like, oh, you're
up and yeah, like I thought you were away. He's
like staring at me, and so I kick the door
because of course, at this point I'm so angry and
scared and feel so stupid that assholes will I thought
was going to murder me. So I kicked the door

(11:51):
so he'll go away, and he just goes like this.
He pulls the little hands and he sits back on
his haun. She's like, oh, okay, lady, let's take it easy.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
He's like, huh okay, that's a stride. That's one.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
She's not gonna let me have the garbage. I'm gonna
have to get it a different way.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I want I want, you want a raccou.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
You want your own raccoon. Do Yeah, short arms are
long arms?

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Surprise me?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Okay, Christmas is right around the corner.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Everybody, so's honkah?

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Hey, shit, that's why you need a Jewish friend. You
never think about honkah honikah sooner. It's more pressing.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
Get your hankkah shopping done now, Texas. Uh, this is
my favorite murder, This murder of the podcast. That's Karen Kilgera.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
This is Georgia Hartstark. Can we tell real quick we've
had some wardrobe issues. Oh yeah, I thought you're pointing
at our feet.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
No, no, I'm just now, I'm just doing things with
my body.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I'm so I don't know what's going on anymore. I'm
so tired. And last night somebody posted a great picture
from the show, which was very sweet, and they people
love to show us pictures of ourselves. I personally resent it,
but I understand, I understand it's not about me and
whoever it was. It was somebody that was up in

(13:25):
this balcony. We see it because hey, is that the
Queen of Spain got there right there? That's so funny.
It might have been up one or is there. No,
it's just that one. It seemed very high. It could
have been a bird's picture. I'm not sure, but my

(13:46):
I didn't die my roots before I left for this
trip because I was like, I'm just sticking out a
little bit right there. I look like I'm balding, just
on my part, tons of hair everywhere else. But then
that's sad, just only on the part.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
It's like, fucking, I don't This is.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Why you're not on Instagram and shouldn't be. It's just
you just are like, there's that problem area.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
What about this time we were in Australia and I
showed Picture Georgia a picture of myself, and I was like,
because she's always like, can we take a picture?

Speaker 2 (14:19):
And I'm like no, But I stopped asking. She had to.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
She had to think that what we worked to hold.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Up this thing, it'd be so cute put it on here.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Let's do I take a photo of this? No?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Never so cute, not so cute.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I'm almost fifty. I shouldn't be here.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
What do you mean by here on earth?

Speaker 2 (14:45):
No? No, that's not true. It's what a great time
we're all having.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
But I took this picture of myself and because I
was facing the window and it was like morning light.
There was this odd combination of things where it actually
was this fucking majestic picture of me that I ran
next door to your hotel room, and I was like,
oh my god, look I actually took a good picture.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Like it was really weird.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
My hair was back and I didn't any make up on,
but it like somehow worked, and Georgia goes amazing. And
then she goes like does and goes do do do
do do? And puts all these filters on it, and
then it looked fucking incredible, and I.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Go, what did you just do?

Speaker 2 (15:19):
And she's like, you don't know about filters.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's why I don't like Instagram. I didn't like Instagram
is because I didn't know everyone's fucking cheating on there
all the yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
We're all cheating, My cats are cheating. Everything is cheating.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Didn't know fucking sunset.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
You're like, oh, I guess I didn't see that sunset tonight.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
It's because it.

Speaker 6 (15:42):
Didn't look like that.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
It's even that Son's like an.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Asshole had a bunch of filters on it.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
You mean all those gorgeous dinners that people have been.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
Taking pictures of, have you seen unfiltered food.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Oh, everyone, not post.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
Photos of food unless you know how to filter the
shit out of those things.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
What a revelation.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
I'm just saying that for the other people in the
crowd who might not know that you can fix your
fucking face.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
It's such good news.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
It's such good news.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Oh. Also, yeah, thank god. Should we sit down? Yeah,
we really should.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Let's give these We're never going to have chairs like
these again, let's give them a moment to shine. This
chair was made when Robert Wadlow, the tallest man in
the world, got an office job at IBM, and he
demanded an aerogonomic.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
Chair to sit in, you know, for when you want
to pretend like you work in a giant office.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yep, there you go. Who made this? I've never in
my life I need Yeah, it's okay. So then we
climb in. Yeah, all.

Speaker 6 (17:00):
Right, you got it, you got it.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
And now the pull in.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Hey, and that's how you sit down. Oh in America,
just real.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Quick, Karen, we had last night at the second show.
The hometown was just like someone's mom, which was like
always fine, don't.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Here about my fifteen year old daughter.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
She was like the cutest thing, the best, the best cutest.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
We always thought moms are mad at us. They're not
such good news.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
She was a Bible teacher in prison, and she's like,
and then I found out what one of my favorite students.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Did, and it was bad.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
She was the one who it was the girl who
hit the homeless man on the freeway. He got stuck
in her windshield and she drove home with him. Remember
that whole story.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
She taught her the Bible too late, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
You need to skip straight to the fucking repent part
because you're done. You're done.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
No, So Karen stole her red flag.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
She came up and she was like, we made these
and I was like, well, that's mine, now mine. I
was like, you can make another one, right because I can't.
So thank you.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh put it in your water? Oh is this wrong?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Okay, okay, I'm first this evening.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
Okay, okay, let's do this. This is a true crime
comedy podcast. It's all you, all you strangers, Thank you,
all you. And Steven's not here.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Sorry. Yes, it's so disappointing.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
I know he's sending me photos of my cats, and
there was one photo that he sent it in. I
said to myself, they look hungry.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
I was such an asshole.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
They look hungry. They look hungry. She was like, don't
they look hungry in this picture? And I was like,
mm hmmm, started east.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Since they look hungry, it's hard to tell, he said, yeap,
hard to tell.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
The consummate politician. Well, could be.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
It couldn't be.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Okay, once again this story, and it seems like we're
underwritten by the magazine Texas Monthly, but we're not. We're
not being paid by them in any way, but we
get so many amazing stories from them, for real.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
It didn't.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
It dawned on me the first night we were here
when I was looking up one of my stories and
there's a lot of people obviously that write for that magazine,
but there is a guy named Skip Hollandsworth that writes
tons of great It's always that guy.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
I just found out today when I was looking at
my story and used his also used his information that
he wrote a book.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
What's it about?

Speaker 4 (19:58):
It's about a serial killer in Austin, like the first
serial killer in Austin?

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Shit, oh, is it the Servant Girl Annihilator?

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
I just I did that one audible and it's there. Okay,
we're gonna I'm getting everyone downloaded. Now let's blow the
Wi fi out.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Okay. Sorry.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
So this is another one that I found searching Texas
Monthly because you can go in. They have like articles
from back in the eighties. It's amazing. They also somebody
has done that thing where they make a Google book
out of the old magazine.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
So while I was reading.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
The article for this story, there were these ads coming
up on the side that were fuck. They were from
nineteen eighty two and they were amazing. What were they
It was just a bunch of blonde people being thin
and rich all over all over the Dallas Fort Worth area.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Just you know, it's like.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Always that one lady with gold earrings and like kind
of a weird blonde haircut.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
That was like, I fucking love oil. No, they just
drank oil at that point.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
It was just there's a lot of you know how
sometimes it's like beef it's what it's what's for dinner.
There's just there's commercials for things that is not a company.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
It's just a concept. Oh yeah, like milk or whatever.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, yeah, milk, milk, it's good for you.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Bones.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
That Tom Kenny who was on Mystery Show with Me
is one of he's also the voice of SpongeBob, one
of the most his.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Biggest his biggest thing was being on with you. That's right, right.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
It's what I mentioned first because I'm in it. But
he's so brilliant and hilarious and he's just standing in
his stand aback where he pretended that he was also
hired by all those companies like the Milk Board and
the Beef Association or whatever, the Farmer's Association, and so
he would do alternative jingles for all of those things,

(21:50):
and that was like it was like milk it's good
for your bones, but singing it like a rock star.
And he also did one there's a restaurant in La
called Rosco's Chicken and Waffles.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's amazing, and he would.

Speaker 7 (22:02):
Go bo School's Chicken and Waffles. He's your chicken and
a wabble connection sidebar Nations.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
I don't think you're allowed to do other people's acts
during your show.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
He doesn't need it.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
He's got all that SpongeBob money. Yeah, that's right, he
doesn't even know.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
You can assume me you're rich, bastard. Okay, Anyhow, the
article I got almost everything from what I'm about to
tell you. I'm essentially rereading you this article, and it
is so fucking crazy and long that I it's like
by the end, I was like scanning, scrolling really fast.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I'm like, don't look at the ads.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Don't look at the people that are, you know, drinking
by a window.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Just focus on the article.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
But it was called The Curse of the Black Lords
by Peter Elkind. There was also an article that I
love for a magazine called d Magazine, asks me too, because.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
You look at that one. I use both of those
magazines too, so good.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
And that article is called the Rise and Fall of
a North Dallas Cult.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
By George Rodrige.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
And this, my friends, is the story of Terry Hoffman
and the conscious development.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Cult cults celts, Celts, calp.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
This is one of the fucking craziest things I've ever
read about. And I can't wait to read more, Like
I want to read a whole book on this, because
this is straight up nutso and I cannot believe in
all the years, of all the twenty twenties and things
that we've all been watching for years and years, I've
never seen anything about this lot. It Nutso okay, so

(23:49):
we start now, Yeah, crack that beer because this.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Is going to be long.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
I actually I want to start. I wonder if this
is the first picture.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
I wonder, let's see. Uh, okay, it wasn't shit, dye it?

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Here's how this article starts. And here it's such a
brilliant way to get into the story because it's not
at the beginning, which is always a good again left turn.
But this is basically how the cops found out about
this cult. It's Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Put yourself there. I'm there.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
So much hairspray.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Oh my god, all of it is that o's see.
What do you call it? Products? Yeah? That purple hairspray?
Got it.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
It starts with the smell in an East Dallas neighborhood
of Lake Highlands.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Wee, they love smell.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
They love the smell. It's so bad that the neighbors
call the cops. Firemen of the first on the scene.
They kick down the door, take a step into the house, walk.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Back out, and throw up on the front lawn.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Oh they always do that.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
But don't take the crime scene and or here's a
tip to killers and bad people. Walk outside.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Just put that knife right there on the lawn, right
in the barfing arcy. So then they have to put
on their scott airpacks, which is like the mass for firemen,
and go into the house. The house is filled with flies. Oh,

(25:30):
clouds of flies.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Oh oh the red flag.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
So far.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
This house wet the bed. We'd know something bad. What's happening.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
In the back of the house they find former Southern
Methodist University business professor David Goodman and his wife Glinda,
both forty eight. They have both been shot with the
gun directly against their skulls. So and they've been dead
for over a month.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Wa uh you guys mind your business here, Like nobody's like,
that's right. Callet fucking takes so bad. Yeah, property, I
respect it. Yeah, the property. Something goes down.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Don't worry about it. We're raising flies. That's our choice.
It's what we get to do. I bought this property.
I picked taxes on it. There's a shooting gallery in
one corner of the room, which is a metal stand
with the paper targets. There's guns on the coffee table,
and there's pellet guns leaned up against a wall.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Sounds chill.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, uh it was like a rumpus room a man cave.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
So also there is an alarm clock at their feet. Uh.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Police and medical examiners conclude it's a murder, suicide or
some kind of a you know, consensual double death.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Jeez, which is the name of my new band. I'm sorry, sorry,
that's good. No no, that's not no, no, no, no no,
that's my part up there you guys.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Uh, thanks, thank you, Next thing you like scalp okay okay.
So so he was an investment advisor who owned his
own company.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
She kept his books.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
They he'd been married three times, she'd been married once,
and friends and family said that they were deeply in love.
They were ecstatic in each other's company, which is the
nicest sentence. No suicide note of any kind. Two dogs
had been left in the backyard the whole time, but
they were alive, pacing, pacing, angry, and the second eate food.

(27:52):
They would forget about everything that happened to Some.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
Neighbor was just fucking throwing a handsfle kiddle over the
back like I just yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
That's that's nice.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
That's a good thought, and angry yet like caring neighbors,
like here's a pork chop these stupid shits, okay, But
then police find two handwritten journals and they find out
that they have been planning their death for months. God
told them to do it, and God's spokesperson was the

(28:23):
leader of a spiritual group that they belonged to called
Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Like if anyone didn't know that was a cult immediately
by that name anytime.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
It's like kind of vague words that suggest a slight
idea but won't get specific. Get out, get away, Okay,
they had been They had been advised to stay away
from family and friends because of their negative energy. Absolutely,
and they also stipulated in their will that they were

(29:00):
giving the leader of Conscious Development of Body Mind and
Soul half of all their future earnings, which must have
meant that their company was doing really well and one
hundred thousand dollars like what they had in the bank,
which was one hundred thousand dollars. And the leader of
Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul was a woman
named Terry Hoffman.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Let's take a look.

Speaker 8 (29:22):
Oh God, damn it, I saw she is hey crazy, hey.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Hey.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
That's such a good voice. So she sounds like hey, hey, hey, hey.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
I contact.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Don't look away from my eyes. Don't look away from
my eyes. Y would you like some juice?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Do you want a forehand massage?

Speaker 1 (30:02):
But I bet you that was like a secret fear
somewhere deep inside where it's like, yeah, you're gonna get
on the table and the four hand massage is going
to start. Boom, You're giving someone one hundred thousand dollars
and you're dead.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
You're in a fucking cult.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
You're in a cult and you can't get out. And
you're like, I love her, I love Terry, and I
want a shirt just like hers.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Boom, there we go, thank you.

Speaker 6 (30:31):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
So after they find this death reports of patterns of
deaths like these in the Conscious Development group, they don't
call it a cult start up, and so police start
an investigation that year, and they find out that eight
members of this spiritual group had died prematurely eight and

(30:55):
three of them were sudden accidents, and five had committed suicide,
and two of the suicides had been Terry's husbands. Oh no,
so they're like, it doesn't seem like a coincidence to us,
And all of the dead people had named Terry Hoffman

(31:15):
as the sole beneficiary of their.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Estates, all of them.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
So Terry, of course it gets talked to by the police,
and her explanation is very simple and clear. The people
who joined her group, which was basically what she said, is,
you know, it was a kind of a new age
meditation group. They were all emotionally troubled and invariably prone
to take their own lives.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
You know how people are, you know, you just attract
a certain type.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, meditation, new age suicide. It's very common.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, be careful.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
So and she said they had left her their money
in exactly the same way that other people leave their
money to traditional churches.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
So what's the problem.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
And the cops were like, great, see you later now.
Very soon after the police investigation started, Terry's two step
children filed a lawsuit against her, saying that she had
contrit contributed to all those deaths through hypnosis, behavior modification,

(32:22):
mind control, and emotional manipulation aka Terry was the leader
of her own death cult.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
WHOA, Okay, seems so innocent. I know, should we look
at her again, look at her again. I don't see it.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
I don't see it.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
So we'll talk about Terry Hoffman's background She was born
into a poor family. Her mother died of tuberculosis and
she was sent to an orphanage when she.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Was nine years old.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
So there she realized at the orphanage, at age nine
that she was the incarnation of Saint Teresa of a
Villa Uh, who, as we all know, all the good
Catholics in the audience know that Saint Teresa was a
sixteenth century Spanish noun.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
I had no idea of any of this.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
I was like shit, And they teach you guys a lot,
and we memorize it and we take it with us.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Dura lives. Uh.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
Saint Teresa was a Spanish nun who had visions of
the Holy Trinity.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
That's the Father, Son and holy ghosts. I know that one. Okay.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
So it's it's Monty Python, God, pcticals, testicles, wallet watch, but.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Spectacles while at watch?

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Is this what Jews say about Catholics when we're not around?

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Is that from airplane?

Speaker 3 (33:45):
I think it's.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
What Austin powers. No, it's all I'm glad I don't
know that reference.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
Then I got taught that at a young age. Okay,
I think my dad taught me my Okay, it's good
to know I was much more concerned.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
But do you know the Holy Trinity?

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Because I was trying to back and Terry Hoffman, you
into my cults, which is Catholicism.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
If you just have five minutes, I can tell you
about the Good Word, okay. But St.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Teresa had these visions. She believed that she was visited
by the Holy Trinity. She also believed that you could
visit the Kingdom of Heaven like rooms in a castle.
So she would basically kind of like astral project into
heaven and she told everybody about it.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
So Terry is like me too.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
When she was eleven, she was adopted, but she ran
away four years later to Durrant or Durant, Oklahoma.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
Durant, Oklahoma has been representing so fucking hard at our shows.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Hi guys, okay, Hi, we had no idea. I had
no idea. Thanks for being here, thank you.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
So she runs away to marry an eighteen year old
truck diver named John Wilder.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
It's a truck diver. Will I say truck diver?

Speaker 3 (35:08):
Oh, you've never heard of that.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
They drive trucks off of peers and then and in
the truck they go fishing.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
It's okay, I did the Addict Addicts, which carue every
show this weekend.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
This is the weekend that we find out that we
have several speech impediments, and we're proud of that.

Speaker 6 (35:29):
Who GIRs so.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Terry now that she's a married old fifteen year old,
dumps out of high school kiss bucket, and she has
a daughter in nineteen fifty four. She has a son
in nineteen fifty eight, another daughter in nineteen sixty three.
They all live on a farm in South Dallas County.
So her, of course, her husband, her eighteen year old husband,
goes away on these long haul trucker trips, and so

(35:55):
Terry begins to dabble in the occult. She reads books
about Edgar Ca and she takes classes in hypnotism. By
the late sixties, they'd moved to Farmer's Branch and good times. Ooh,
or just get small houses there or big we'll talk

(36:17):
about it later. So once they get there, she starts
leading meditation classes at her house. And this is basically
when conscious development started.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, so it's on the level, yes everyone in LA. Yeah,
for fuck's sake.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Oh, that's the thing I forgot to tell you when
I went over my when I actually got I just
stuck with a romatherapy massage. I was like, that's what
people get, be normal like other people.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, while you get a massage.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
I love aromatic oils selling it. But the woman goes,
is there any particular areas that you want me to
focus on or any problems you're having? And I just
go no, I'm just trying to get back into my body.
And then we both just stood there staring at each other.
And then I was like, I'm not in LA. You're
not supposed to say things like that. God, it was

(37:07):
so embarrassing. Get back in my body? What you trying
to get back in my body?

Speaker 2 (37:14):
What does that mean?

Speaker 6 (37:15):
It's deep?

Speaker 2 (37:16):
It sounds deep.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
It just came out and I thought she'd understand, and
she is just like, okay, you can put the robe
over there. She just just pretended like it never happened.
I'm gonna use that'll work. Said, oh, I'm in my
fucking body tonight.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Let me tell you what.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
She must have understood me.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
I'm getting back. Thank you. It's nice to be here. Okay, okay.
So uh it was basically just a talking meditation class.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
So she also she would write up and sell lessons
like in little pamphlets herself. And this was the first lesson.
It was first degree lesson one.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
This is how it starts. This is your first lesson.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
It is yours in a special way, since the knowledge
contained within it is sacred, secret and mysterious.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's fucking on the page. It's none of those things.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
This information has been treasured and carefully guarded since ancient times,
for knowledge gives its possessor power.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
That's true. This sounds like a really long fortune cookie.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
By being exposed to the teachings of the Masters, you
will not only become aware of the truths which others
rarely possess.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeay, but you will.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Also learn how to use and control energies few have mastered.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I'm already out. You don't like biz, no, Harry Potter.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
So it turns out the Masters are, according to Terry Hoffman,
twelve wise spirit guides who would visit earth to give
advice or warnings to mankind. Only a few people could,
very rare few could communicate with them. Of course, Terry
was one of those people, and she said that the
twelve masters included Jesus Christ himself and a guy named Marcus.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
So I'm in one hundred. I bet Jesus Christ is stoked.
He made the fucking grain. Yeah, he made the list.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
She's like, great, I have so much to tell you. Sorry,
Marcus is talking. You're gonna have to hold on, Okay. So,
according to Terry, the Masters first appeared to her when
she was four years old, and they told her that
she could have anything she wanted if she tried hard enough.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
It might be true. I mean, depends on what you
want true. Yeah, let's think about it first. Okay, I'm here,
let's do it.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
She also said that the problems that you have in
your life are coming up because you're paying for bad
behavior from your past lives. So it's like, Terry, that's karma.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
You didn't make that up. That's Hindu. Stop it, Terry.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I wish I was Terry's friend. I could just be
there when she was writing up this pamphlet and be like, Terry,
you're lying.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Stop it. Stop typing about Marcus. That's a fucking lie.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Terry being a negative energy, Karen, that's why she had
to get rid of all the negative energies. Yes, because
it was Karen telling her, Yeah, because I'm trying to
copy it. It her bullshit just be like, you can't
put you can't pretend you made up karma. People will
catch you, okay. She also preached there's no difference between
life and death, as quote, you will become conscious of

(40:41):
the continuity of life. Death then will not exist in
reality because your existence is not dependent on the mirror existence.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Of the physical body.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
What what you can't just put the word existence in
a sentence seven times and be like, I'm I.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Talk to God. Well, apparently you can't.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
I mean you can and she did.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
So most of her ideas were borrowed from the usual
text that inspired New Age the New Age movement, except
her doctrine that offered forgiveness for sin and was very
pro sex, like have it as much as you want
and can Jews, yay?

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Is that what you guys are moms hours?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Well, yeah, that's your jam particularly no, but yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
So people were.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Super into this concept basically because they're like, oh, I
went to I thought I was going to yoga class,
but it turns out I should fuck way more. Is
kind of what happened, and people are like, I gotta.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Go back to my class.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
I might start taking it two days a week. So
as the people who are as old as I am know.
The eighties were a time of great materialism in this country,
great expansion of materialism. Yeah uh. And of course Dallas
was a hotbed. There's tons of rich people here because

(42:02):
of the oil industry and of.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
The TV show Dallas. I don't know, I make it up,
but I mean it was everywhere obviously.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
But it was the thing that always happens with materialism,
where it creates an empty hole and people are like,
but I bought an eighty thousand dollars car and I'm
still upset now. I'm really freaked out What's going to
happen to me? And normal religion wasn't helping most people
with this feeling, and they were turning to New age options.
There were a lot of people became spiritual seekers, and

(42:33):
so Terry's meditation classes, she acted she was the wise guru.
She had all the answers, She had a fucking direct
line to Jesus and Marcus. And as her students sat
cross legged on the floor, she sat there lecturing, this

(42:54):
is straight from the article, lecturing everyone on anything from
personal finance.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
To sect to ghosts. Yes, all right, I don't know how.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
I'm in that class, like, sorry, how do you balance
your check book?

Speaker 6 (43:09):
Again?

Speaker 2 (43:10):
What's haunted? And meditate?

Speaker 1 (43:15):
But then after the lecture part, then she would speak
in a softer voice and she would lead the group
in a trance like state, and then the evening ended
with a round of prayer, which I think is really fascinating.
She studied hypnotism when she was younger, and then she
kind of like, I think they're insinuating that she practiced

(43:37):
it with these groups of people. So, and for an
additional fee, she would give people individual consultations on their
show about their checkbook.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, she'd be like, Mmm, you have too much money.
I need some.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
So when her husband, John, the truck driver, confronted her
about taking her leading a meditation group thing too far,
she claimed that he was impeding her spiritual growth, and
she divorced him, and soon after he and her adoptive
mother actually had her committed to a psychiatric hospital for
examination because it was she was going crazy or she

(44:17):
was just a woman in the early eighties. But she
did end up losing custody of her children when the
divorce was finalized in March of nineteen seventy one. Three
months later, she married Conscious Development member Glenn Cooley, who
was a student at North Texas State University. Yeah, after

(44:39):
they got married, he dropped out of school boo, kind
of right, and he went to work full time at
Conscious Development. He was twenty years old. She was thirty three,
so she was balin. Then she gets this great idea
that she introduces the con of crystals and precious gems

(45:03):
to the group, and she starts to implore her followers
to start using electrically charged crystals and gems because they
had protective and healing qualities. And luckily she made jewelry
with just those very crystals and gems.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Her and the twenty year old made jewelry together, and
so she urged her followers to buy it. And she
said the more expensive the pieces were, the more they protected.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
That's not how religion works. It's not.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
It feels like it has been working that way for.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
A long time. Well, I'm here to tell you, Oh no, Marcus,
can we see the picture of the whole group?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yes, is that is that? Okay? Yes?

Speaker 1 (45:50):
In fact check this shit out. Wow, Okay, which one
do you think terry is at this point? Because this
is the late seventies.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Okay, the one with the beard.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
No, Terry, she's a woman.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
That was the one in the middle.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
No, the one.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
It's old floral shirt over there on the side. Yes,
and her husband, he's over here in the karate outfit.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yes, wait, I asked she.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
I asked Stephen if he would zoom in. This is
from a little bit later on in the relash, but
not that much later.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
She's not thirty three.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Ooh, no, that's a rough thirty three, right, No, this
is like ten years later.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Still, that's not forty three.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Looks Sometimes when your boobs are big, they take up
all this space and then you're like, I don't want
to wear this fucking bra anymore.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
So you're like, fuck it, I have my own cult.
I'm not wearing a bra anymore.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
And also I'm gonna wear this tablecloth as a dress.
Here's her husband. Ah shit, y'all, did you know that's
where Matthew McConaughey got a start?

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Can we can we real quick though?

Speaker 6 (47:08):
Go back?

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Okay? Can you guess wait which one Stephen is when
you see it? Oh?

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Wait, in the very middle, the middle, because there's also
a secret Stephen over on the left.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Oh ship, Yeah, wait, they're all you were a whole cult. No,
we did e then know it.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Okay, so they're deeply in love and okay, So there's
a person in this group and uh it was. Her
name was Sandy Cleaver, and she had all the jewelry.
She was she bought into this whole concept hook line
and sane her and she had a family trust. She

(48:03):
came from a lot of money, so she had the
time and resources to dedicate.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Herself to conscious development.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
And she, like of course many people, she had a
life marked with tragedy. Or mother had been in and
out of mental hospitals. Her teenage sister died in a
car accident, and her father had died in a plane crash.
So she was a seeker.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
She was looking for some kind of spiritual answers and.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
She had She had been in this group since the beginning,
and she really believed that Terry was all the things
that she said and was really helping her. Terry begins
to prescribe holistic medicines to her followers, just rando pills
that she had literally driven up in a truck from Mexico.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Oh don't take those, you guys.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, And it was like these are crushed up crystals,
eat them.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
No, no, no, I mean that's what I imagine.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Why would you It's like, this is a bunch of
I'm like Kumin, but it's magic.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
It's kind of give you powers or whatever.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
That's why I don't have a cult. So she also convinced.
She begins to convince her followers that she can heal,
she can she can diagnose people's problems telepathically and then
prescribe them these holistic medicines. And this is basically how
she sells her believers these medicines, so they will give

(49:31):
the medicines to their family members and Sandy Cleaver, she
Terry basically says, your five year old daughter is very
sick and needs these medicines, and so Sandy's like, let's
let's do it. When Sandy filed for divorce a month
after Terry filed for a divorce, she told her husband

(49:54):
it was because he was blocking her spiritual development, and.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
He they they got in. He sued for custody.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Because he could tell that she was going off the
deep end with this meditation group that she was in,
and he testified at their uh at the hearing that
Sandy was giving their five year old daughter one hundred
and ten pills a day, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
One hundred and touns.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yes, I can't even take six vitamins. I know that,
poor baby.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
I know it's super nuts. But he ends up letting
Sandy have have a custody of their daughter. Their daughter's
name is Devereaux. If you weren't sure if they were
really rich, they're super fucking rich. Because have you ever
even heard that name before? Okay? He was so afraid

(50:46):
that Sandy was going to because he knew that Sandy
was studying this thing that said there's no difference between
life and death and it's just another realm and it's
just a different place to travel to. That he was
he was afraid if he tried to take Devereux away,
she would kill her, so he let her have custody.
But they actually put a special provision in the divorce

(51:08):
decree saying that Sandy was only allowed to take Devereux
to licensed physicians.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Okay, which is an insane.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Demand, right, No, just kidding, Okay, So Sandy becomes once
she gets a divorce, she becomes Terry's full time unpaid assistant,
oh interns, And when the company gets incorporated she becomes
the secret Terry treasurer, so she's like, you know, yeah,

(51:37):
she's there front line. She continually leaves Devereux with their
elderly housekeeper and goes to meetings weekend retreat. She's never around.
When she took in a member of a group that
was homeless, her ex husband's like, sorry, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
I have a child in the.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
House, and she said his negative energy was making Devereux sick. So,
as the group grows larger, Terry then tells twenty five
hand selected special people, now, this is the group, but
you are my teachers.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
And so.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
They got sworn to secrecy, and she told them something
that could be never be spoken outside of their small group.
And she said that was that they're all members of
what's called a white brotherhood and that they were chosen
by the Masters to destroy the forces of evil, which
was a group called the Black Lords. The wording of
this is very problematic and uncomfortable. I want to assume

(52:38):
she was just doing that as a like a color thing,
but she absolutely could have been racist.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
We don't fucking know what this woman's deal was.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
She thought she was saying, Theresa, the good news is
the evil force had only existed on the astral and
mental planes, so that's you had to fight them there. Okay,
So to kill them, you had to take them to
the pits of Hell, where their soul and lower bodies
would be dissolved. But the Black Overlords could not be

(53:07):
destroyed in the pits of Hell. They must be destroyed
in the electromagnetic dissolving cave.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Jesus, I already need a fucking nap.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Like when I got to this part of the story,
I started getting that weird stomach ache where it's like
when you're little and you get left alone for too
long and there's no adults in the room, and you're
like there's too much kid talking and like kid pretending,
where you're.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Like, you need to shut up for a while. Everybody,
turn the TV on.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
I don't want to hear your weird story anymore.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
That's what this is.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
This is a woman with no filter and no editor
who's just like, I have another idea, No, let it marinate, Okay.
Because also there are also garbonds?

Speaker 2 (53:51):
What O beans?

Speaker 1 (53:54):
No, there were things called garbonds, so beans, I.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Didn't hear that.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
This is how unfucking creative this woman was that she's
like literally finished as a salad, and she's like, there's
also an evil force calls called a garbond zobeine. Garbonds
Obeans were six feet tall, covered in slime, house like
garonzo beans, exactly like that. They had long beats, they

(54:22):
looked like gargoyles, and they were known to cross into
the physical and touch you and leave slime. Yeah. So
if that happened to you, and if after thirty seconds
your hand tingled or shaked, that's a garbond stuck to
it and you have to use your imagination, wrap it
in barbed wire, stab it and kill it, and then
imagine the dead garbonds spinning straight up and dissolving into

(54:45):
the universe. Someone stopped taking their meds someone a while.
I guess this is like when you do a ton
of coke with a stranger. You're just like, I don't
want to talk to you anymore. Oh my gosh, can
I have two more cigarettes? And I'm going to leave?

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Okay, so I'd go way faster.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Sorry, Okay. So she said that these teachers needed to
arm themselves with magic symbols, a rod, a sword, a cup,
and a cloth bag containing a cup of dirt.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
My god.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
She said that they had to wear headbands of gold
or silver, the protective jewelry. And she said they had
to wear robes because quote, a properly made robe can
give you up to fifteen times more power.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
This isn't a fucking video game. What is happening.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
It's You're in the worst fucking after school theater class
you've ever accidentally joined. So they would sit in circles
and they would battle the overlords for hours mentally with
their imagination, and then they would call Terry and give
her the body count. We killed two hundred and sixty
dark lords but no, I mean black lords, but no overlords.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Yes, and Terry.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Would be like, I would do that with you, but
your negative family is making me sick, and I have
to fight. I have to fight my own garbond.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
So beans, I mean, I was there when we you know,
when we're meditating, great, but now I have to do
all is homework in my head.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, like over it, and she.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
There's this whole part. I mean, you guys have to
read these articles because there's so much I'm leaving out
and and it's so dense. But they would she describe
or the author sorry, describes them having to fight these
these black lords where they're they could use as a
as a rod or I mean as a sword.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
It didn't have to be a sword, it could just
be a pen or a letter opener.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
So they would be like going like sitting there and
going like this to kill the garbonzobeans Wow okay. Basically,
and they listed the.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Kind of people that were in this group.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
A college professor and I advertise, an agency executive, a
counselor for the Dallas School District.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, all off their meds. So she made them.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Everything she told them was making them more and more paranoid.
No one could be trusted outside the group, especially the
people who had been and were like, hey, I'm not
into the Garbonds thing.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
I have to go Okay. There were people who were
like goodbye, Yeah, okay, good way goodbye.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
But then on February twenty February second, nineteen seventy seven,
her husband, Glenn Cooley was.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Found dead Kate karate Kid, the karate King.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Okay, so they'd been married for six years at this point.
He worked for the jewelry business. But basically when he
started hearing about this black Lord's thing. He wanted out,
and he'd actually told his family like, this whole thing
has gone a little crazy and I need to get away.
So they separated in September of nineteen seventy, but he

(58:01):
still worked for CD Gems, which was the name of
their corporation, thems CD Gems.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Okay, like CD Gems, like CD gens.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
She wasn't a smart woman, So the divorce goes through
in January of nineteen seventy seven. Five days later, he
goes to spend the weekend at his parents' cabin in
Lake Grapevine and the next day she says she finds
a handwritten will in her safe. Uh huh, the most

(58:31):
convenient place to leave something. And in the will he
left everything to Terry. And so there's actually a line
in the will that says, I will ask that this
last will of mine will not.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Be contested in any way. Oh that's convenience, it's written in.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
So she says when she saw that the will he
put in a safe, she got two of her teachers
drove to that cabin and when they got there, they
found her twenty five year old ex husband dead in
bed with a strange who's coming out of his mouth,
and they found a can of beer and some capsules,
and when the toxicology report came back, it was valium
and librium in his system. So she tells Terry, tells

(59:12):
the authorities he was despondent over the divorce and.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
She told him not to go off alone.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
But he was basically suicidal, and his death was uncontested
for thirteen years. Everyone just took her story at face value.
So then we get into the part where she starts
losing followers because she said the proof of his his
death was proof that the Black Lords were winning, and
the overlords were winning, and so now they need to

(59:39):
introduce the next level of protections blood letting.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Oh fuck uh huh.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
So basically she tells the teachers, they the Black Lords
have the power to poison the blood, and so the
blood needed to be drained. And it was fine if
it's just like a syringe. You just take out a
syringe of blood every day. And all these people are
just like, you know what, I've been here for the
Chris in the gym, he said, I've bought your bullshit.
I'm taking pill after pill for you. So people start bailing,

(01:00:09):
even in the inner circle, but Sandy Cleaver stays in
and then Terry starts to tell her that her fourteen
year old daughter, Devroux is now fourteen, and Terry says
she's been infected by the Black Lords. So in December
seventy eighth, and Sandy was never home, never went to
Devro's games, she played basketball, she was, you know, in

(01:00:32):
high school and doing all this stuff. And Sandy was
completely negligent. But then she comes to her daughter and says,
I want to take you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
On a trip to Hawaii.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
So of course Devro's so happy and excited, and Sandy's
fiance at the time went with them, and they went
to this area that was basically it was like a
certain beach, and they took this blue raft out into
the water and then they don't come back, and so

(01:01:02):
Sandy's fiance calls the cops and they end up finding
Sandy bloody and stranded on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
This coral reef.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
And her story is they were out on this thing
and a huge wave hit them and they got washed
up onto this coral reef and she couldn't find Devereaux,
and they end up finding Devereux's body like four hours later.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
So when Chuck the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Sandy's ex husband in Devereu's dad. He finds out that
they call him when she's still missing and they haven't
found the body yet, so he hustles it up and
takes up flight the next flight to Hawaii, and we
get when he gets there, Terry's already in Sandy's hospital room.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
So Sandy's been beaten up on these rocks or whatever.
Terry's already there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
And back home in Dallas, somebody had called Chuck's house
and a family friend answered the phone, and they said,
we have a document that you need to see.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
And it is Devereaux's will, a fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Year old well and in it her one hundred and
twenty five thousand dollars trust that she'd gotten from her
mom was left to Terry and so, and in it
also there was the line that said they specifically asking
not to have the will be contested. So two months later,
Sandy takes out a three hundred thousand dollars life insurance

(01:02:24):
policy on herself, which was twice the limit. The insurance
agent's like, you don't need that much, and she's like, no,
I ensistd.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Seventeen rings, No I need to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
And in it Terry is the sole beneficiary, and then
she transfers the deed to her home or the title
of her home to Terry, and then begins paying Terry
rent to live in her home.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yeah, So in September of nineteen eighty one, Sandy persuades Louise,
the old housekeeper that basically raised Devereux herself. She's like,
we need to go on a trip to Colorado. The
Conscious Development has bought this plot of land for a
retreat that we're gonna build one day, and we should
go look at the land. And the seventy seven year

(01:03:11):
old housekeeper's like, fuck off, I'm putting my feet up.
But she basically made her go and they fly out
and it was in an area near Cripple Creek and
in near on this mountain and they are in the
station wagon. They drive up the road to the mountain
and fucking off that mountain.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
The cops say there were no break there were no
skid marks, there were no break marks or anything. It
was she just drove off the mountain and killed them both.
And then they find Terry shows up in Colorado to
claim the bodies, and she's carrying both women's wills. Oh no,
everything is left to Terry, and the housekeeper didn't even

(01:03:56):
know Terry, and she left everything in her will.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
So Sandy Cleaver's brother takes Terry to court and she's like,
He's like, this is all a crazy cult and this
is like mind control and crazy bullshit, and they end
up because it's it is a document. I don't know
what happened, but she has to pay and she immediately
cashed that three hundred thousand dollars check from a life

(01:04:23):
insurance policy, so she has to pay him back half
of that money. And then they split the rest of Sandy's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Estate, so she got half of it. Yeah. Wow, let's see.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
So then there's still a couple followers left after that.
The Goodman's, who are the people we talked about at
the very beginning, They're still in and they were they
were kind of like late adopters, and David Goodman had
testified at Terry's trial saying that Conscious Development was a
discussion group that fosters good vibrations.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
And fucking beat boys or some shit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Four other groups members also testified on Terry's behalf at
that at that trial, and three of those people would
end up killing themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Eventually, Terry came out with her own perfume, My God,
it's called Good Vibrations, and also an acupressure massage therapy
course that she wants. Finally, a criminal investigation was launched
by the Dallas District Attorney's Office in January of nineteen

(01:05:32):
ninety Yeah, and they the problem was that it's so
difficult to determine. If mind control can be determined, it
can be cited as a cause of death because it's
hard to prove.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
They of course deny any wrongdoing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
That Terry Hoffman's lawyer said, this is a witch hunt
and she's a great person.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
She's a witch.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Yeah, but which they can't find evidence linking Terry Hoffman
to any of the deaths, so she doesn't ever go
to jail for any of them. But she does file
for bankruptcy in October of nineteen ninety one, as she's
sentenced to sixteen months in prison for bankruptcy fraud in

(01:06:17):
May of nineteen ninety four. She only served a year,
and in nineteen ninety five, Unsolved Mysteries did an episode
on the disappearance.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Of the Terry Hoffman's follower, Charles Southern.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
She ended up marrying five men altogether, and they at
the end they wrote a book. I'm really mad at
myself because I took a picture of this thing that
I wanted to write in the end, but I fucking
forgot to write it down. The book they wrote was
called I think it's called something like Money Colors, and

(01:06:55):
it's basically like how to attract money to yourself through
wearing different.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
In your clothes. That's something my mom would have read.
In the eighties.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
A lot of people read it in the air. They
were like, have you gotten your money Colors done?

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
I only eat graate freaking cottage cheese, and I wear
purple for the money.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Because the purple symbolizes five hundred dollars. Anyway, she died
in nineteen ninety seven and that's the end of that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
I'm sorry that was so long.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
I've never I've never had a murder that was less
fucking skippable. Like normally when we're reading these you're like,
this isn't important. That's that's a strange detail. Yeah, every
every thing is nut.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
So no, I'm down. I'm here for the murder.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Thank you, I appreciate it. All right, Wait a minute,
Oh this is okay. This is the illustration. How awesome
is this? This was the fucking illustration. Now I'm not
gonna be able to get back to page one. This
is the illustration. And that was in God bless it
Texas Monthly Magazine. Yes, that is a tattoo for the ages.

(01:08:08):
Look how brd Wait and the guy that drew its
name was Joel Peter Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
How amazing. That is glorious. We need prayer candles. Bad image,
oh good idea. And it sucks because I had to
do the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
I made Stephen edit that for me, because I had
to do the like the control shift for thing where
I had to take a picture on my screen because
you can't drag and drop and her little feet are
dangling down, she's floating in the air.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Awesome. Okay, put the flag over here, get the flag ready,
This out of the way.

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
All right, My murder, you guys, is again. All the
information from the same place is Sandra Bride while.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
The black widow of Dallas. Ooh, I love a black widow.
I know you love a black widow. I just love it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
This is a weird story, all right. So let's talk
about Sandra. Let's see a picture of her. Okay, hot,
that's her.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
She's gorgeous. Yeah, beautiful. That was an inappropriate reaction, you guys.
She's a gorgeous woman.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
She you want to see them, yes, please, Well, but
just because look at her friends.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
They're also pretty. Yeah, they're all really rich. They're having
the best fucking Halloween ever because they're really rich.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Because they're rich.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Okay, let me talk. Let's talk about her. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:09:35):
Sandra is born April fourth, nineteen forty four, in a
little town of uh Setalia, Missouri. Okay, Sidelia, Yeah, Missouri,
thank you. Anne was adopted as an infant to parents
and according to parent, I guess that's weird, right because
I cut out their names and okay, yeah. According to reports,

(01:09:59):
by the age of three, her adoptive mother, Camille, was
killed in an auto accident, and her father, Arthur, who
managed and ran a doctor Pepper bottling plant, remarried and
they relocated to Oak Cliff, Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
You guys are rich. No, I'm kidding. No, that's not
a rich flight. That's later when she's older. Now they're mad.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Can I just say that I had a doctor pepper
today and it was so goddamn delicious? Is in the
mini bar, and I was like, I always just drink
automatically drink diet coke. And I was like, hey, I'm
in fucking Texas. I get to have a doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Pepper if I want.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
You guys really know how to live.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
Okay, apologies to oak Cliff because you're not rich.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I guess all right, that's all kinds of problems.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
Okay there he uh worked as a cemetery plot salesman,
which sounds fun. Sandra and her new stepmom they fought
all the time. Apparently she was real mean to Sandra
that she said her stepmother regularly locked her in the closet,
told her nobody wanted her, and then one time was like,
we're going to throw you a.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Big birthday party.

Speaker 4 (01:11:10):
Ready for your birthday party, it's today, And then she's like, JK,
didn't send out any of the invitations.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Nobody likes you. Wow, I know what's that lady's problem.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
After graduating from high school where she really didn't date much,
she was just kind of a quiet girl, she began
dating lots of dudes and it was kind of in
her mind that she was like, I'm going to be
a fucking housewife to a very rich person.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
That's my goal. Nice was like, okay, get it, you
old dude, get it. Whatever, do it. We all have
different goals in life.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
I love it. And every dude became smitten with her
because she was beautiful, And then her friends said that
she would do a thing called the lady like poor
helpless me routine. After one year of college, she drops out,
and she apparently is like a right. She lies all
the time, telling people that her adoptive parents I've been killed.
That fit. Her parents were aristocrats, all this bullshit, the aristocats.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Then she meets a man named David and steegal. He's
a fancy dentist.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
He'd gone to school, Yeah, lots of pinky rings and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
He's fancy as fuck. He's a high falutint dentist, you
know what I mean. Yes, Like, he's like, I'm not
gonna fucking give you a drill your teeth. I'm gonna
like do plastic surgery like fancy shit. Oh okay, stuff
that isn't covered by insurance, that costs a lot of
money for high fucking society.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
You know what I mean? Yes, got it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
We're just like, hey, do you want me to give
you a dent in your chin. I could do that
for you, right, I'm a fancy dentist. What was your
childhood dentist's name?

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Oh god, don't I don't remember the dentist. You don't know,
do you? Yeah, of course I do. That's why I
asked the question. Of course everything.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Eh. I just thought it was one of those things.
Do you remember your childhood phone number?

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Oh? Yes, seven four five five nine five five eight nine. Yeah,
call it now, you guys, let's call it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
Call it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Do you remember your childhood we're just asking security questions.
That's your mother's maiden name?

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
I didn't hear you?

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
Are you just see the ones that it's like who's
your favorite niece or nephew.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
It's just like, mean one is that true?

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I've never seen that one? Okay. I just know that
every single one where they're like, what's your first car?
And then I'll be like, you know, whatever the answer is,
And then the next time I go there, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Like, well there was that other one. Yeah, Like my
mom sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Let me drive the Volvall. I was like, I can't
ever get into anything. No, I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Okay. So she meets fancy dentists. David.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
They he had gone to school in Los Angeles and
had Hollywood caliber clients, but in the Dallas fucking richie
rich set, you know what I'm saying. So this is
like the mid sixties, everyone's richest, fucking Dallas. Sure, and
he had a thing for fancy stuff, big cadillacs and
houses and pretty women.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
They get married in nineteen sixty seven.

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
They have three children, and they're raising their family in
an upscale Dallas neighborhood. But despite his salary and his
like high falutint reputation, he couldn't keep up with Sandra's spending.
She was like worth spending at all, because I because
I said, so, yeah, you didn't really need a reason, kay,

(01:14:25):
So had she had lavish tastes. She loved buying art
and expensive furniture. And by nineteen seventy four, the family
is in severe debt. Oh no, so he's forced to
borrow money from his family to pay their bills. And
in nineteen seventy five, this situation and their marriage is
falling apart. It had gotten so bad that David tried
to kill himself, and by Sandra's stories that she told,

(01:14:48):
she found him in a closet with a gun pointed
to his head, called his coworker like his business owner
was like business owner, no, you know, his business partner.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
He comes and they talk him out of killing himself.
But a few weeks later he is found lying in
bed with both of his wristslash and a gunshot wound
to his head.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Oh yeah, that's a bit overkilled.

Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
Yeah, seems like well then, I you know, and when
I found all these like random articles and Reddit stuff,
and it's like and it said that the gunshot wound
was first, you know, so like, clearly he didn't do that.
But I didn't find that corroborated anywhere, so I'm not
saying it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Good use of the word corroborated though, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
This is a true crime. Thought, that's right. I know word,
I know words, some of them, not most of them. Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
So here that was her, Nope, that's someone else, Okay,
that's her, all right. So after his death, she collects
the insurance on her husband's life and sells his practice,
and then she begins to eating wealthy men again, which
is like, man, her husband just killed herself, Like, go
get yours, honey, poor thing like that sucks, right, unless

(01:16:07):
she killed him.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
You're right, Okay, it's hard to know who's side to
be on it. Probably not the black widows, I would assume,
So she kind of was. Men were spelled by her,
by her blobbeat law. And then a little more than
you know, she's hot.

Speaker 4 (01:16:24):
She had a really hot blobbery blah blah blah blah
blah blah, you know what I mean. So a little
more than three years after her husband dies, she marries
a well known Dallas hotel guy, an investor hotelier. But
that's right, Bobby Bridewell, So that's her new her second husband.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
He adopts Sandra's three three daughters.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
They moved to upscale neighborhood of Highland Park, So she
could have she could have been in the cult maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Oh that's right. She was right around the corner, yeah,
sharpening her fingernails. But in ninety Bobby is diagnosed with cancer.

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
So he while he is recovering from radiation and is
trying to get better, she is having the entire home remodeled.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
Yes, because you have to cleanse, clap the corners, sage
the house.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Yes, get new Italian furniture, paper shag carpeting.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
The end very important. So she's having it remodeled. And
then she says to like her neighbor, you know, I'm
getting this done today. Can you take him in.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
Your house for a week and let him live there?
Her dying husband huh, So she moves in with the neighbors.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
He never returns to his home two years after his diagnosis,
and a couple of weeks after this, he dies. So
Sandra becomes friends with her late husband's oncologists, doctor John Bagwell,
and his wife Betsy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
They become buddies. And so Betsy is the.

Speaker 4 (01:18:03):
Quintessential Highland Park housewife and mother. She's fucking Highland Park
High School cheerleader. She was not.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
She wasn't as an adult. That would be weird. You
kind of said that, like yoda, I know, Land Park
cheerleader she was. I get it, I get it. What
I mean? Yeah, she but but you know, she's like,
you know, she's the ship.

Speaker 4 (01:18:29):
She's she's a hard working lady, Shakespeare Festival Junior League,
active in the Presbyterian Church, taught Bible class for children
in her home while raising two of her own children.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
So the couple was like, great, we love this ship.

Speaker 4 (01:18:40):
She's our friend, Sandra, awesome, wonderful, But then she starts
becoming really like obsessive with them and fucking totally what
about Bob's one of their vacations and shows up unannounced
in New Mexico where they were vacationing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Yes, she fucking what about Bob's that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
Shit, what are you guys doing in New Mexico?

Speaker 4 (01:19:01):
I think we have a photo of her, So that's
her and her. That's her third husband, Stephen. That's not
him either. I thought we had a photo that was
that's Betsy. That well okay, wait, sorry, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
The that's the wood woman.

Speaker 4 (01:19:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Then one tried was just trying to go on vacation. Yeah, okay,
So she's like surprise, New Mexico.

Speaker 4 (01:19:24):
And then they're like, we need to distance ourselves from
this woman at that point, so they they are trying
to break ties with her, but she's still really insistent
with hanging out with them, even though they try not
to get her letter in their lives. But then in
early June eighty two, Sandra calls Betsy and is like, Hey,
I need to ride to the airport. My car won't

(01:19:45):
start some bullshit about that, so Betsy goes to help her,
takes her to the airport, and when they go to
the lot where Sandra's car is parked to get her
because she had forgotten her driver's license. It's some convoluted
bullshit story. So then four hours later, after Sandra being
the last person to see Betsy June sixteenth, nineteen eighty two,

(01:20:10):
Betsy's Betsy, forty year old, She's found dead in her
Mercedes in the airport parking lot where they had been.
She'd been shot in the head and her death was
ruled a suicide. Right, No, So Sandra being the last
person to see Bagwell alive, all these questions, of course

(01:20:30):
surface and there's no evidence. There's not a suicide. Note
she'd been living a happy life. Everyone who knew her
was like, hell fucking no, there's no way she would
have done that. Yeah, but police John Bagwell, the husband,
hires a private investigator, but police closed the case and
refused to open it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
So let's see.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
So, when Sandra has the funeral for her husband who
died of cancer, Bobby, she got about fifty thousand dollars
as like memorial funds. I guess people just like give
you money.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
I don't know, that's not usually how it works.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Well, she.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
Didn't really spend any money on his funeral. She got
like the cheapest casket and all this stuff, and it
kissed everyone off.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
June nineteen eighty four, she meets a guy named Alan Rearig.
He's a good looking twenty nine year old just moved
to Dallas, a former college basketball star from Oklahoma.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
He was going to hit it rich in real estate.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
And he's so he's like, I'm gonna I want to
be rich. And he's driving around Highland Park. He's like,
this is the rich neighborhood. Sometimes people who live in
these big houses will rent out their back house for
people like me. So he's driving around. She's a hot
woman on her fancy lawn and gets out and is
like asks her. Turns out it's our friend Sandra. Uh oh,

(01:21:52):
and they and she's like, I don't but I'll help you.
And of course they fucking fall madly in love with
each other, which is like the creepiest way to meet someone, right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
No, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
In a rich neighborhood on a lawn, come on croquet style.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Yeah, these are the seventies people.

Speaker 4 (01:22:13):
Okay, So within weeks they're inseparable. Then in the fall
of eighty four, she says that she's pregnant. She tells
them she's pregnant, but unbeknownst to him, seven years earlier,
she had had a hysterectomy. So she's fucking lying.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
That's a lie.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
Then, Yeah, and she also told him she was thirty six,
but she was really forty one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Girl, that's got a full years.

Speaker 4 (01:22:36):
They were really mad about one. Do not lie about
your age in Texas. So he didn't doubt her though
he had no reason to. So they got married in
December nineteen eighty four. And then she was like, oh shit,
I can't like lie about this for a couple of years.
So she says she has a miscarriage.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
And so I'm just still worried about lying. If you
lie that you're five years younger.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Than you are, yeah, you look like shit.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
I mean, dude, Yeah, a certain point, it all just
starts falling apart yause I was personally a test. You're
just like, I'm thirty two. Everybody I want to lie
up to be like, damn, you look good for forty one,
exactly right, because I look really good for forty one seven.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
So it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
I'm so disappointed. Sorry, Okay. Then okay, loses the baby.
They know there's no baby, right, loses imaginary baby, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:23:43):
So he quickly realizes that Sandra loves money. Who amongst
us though, I'm going to go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
And be fair to her. Stop casting stones. This goes
to super bible really fast.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
So he's like pushing him to make more money. She
takes out a big life insurance policy on him.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
Dang, He tells, yes, they should do something at like
when you're in all State and someone comes in and
they're just.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Like, yeah, hello, I'm just kind.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
Of forty five, and I don't know, I feel like
looking into a humongous life insurance policy and the people
are like, hold.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
On nine one one, what's your emergency. I don't know
what the emergency is yet, but.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
It's going to be bad.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
You can call There's like a future Crimes hotline.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Yes, hey, hello, Minority Report.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Who's this? That's when I was trying to think up
but I was going to say the matrix. It's not
so I didn't do it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
Hello, the matrix may help you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
Oh no, no, no, you want to call Minority Report?

Speaker 3 (01:24:52):
Okay, good luck.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Phone bits why haven't we been doing them all along?
It was a great idea.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
Can also the oldest phone we could be using. This
is the iPhone ten?

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
Hello?

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
Well what do they do now?

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
This?

Speaker 5 (01:25:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:25:09):
Hello?

Speaker 4 (01:25:09):
Hello?

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
That's stupid. Oh looks just stupid. It's this Why didn't
you text me? I'm okay, well we're not friends anymore. Okay,
we're not friends anymore. And now I have three huge
zits right here. So thanks for nothing and a brain tumor.
All right, I'll see you later mom. And oh wait,

(01:25:40):
okay oh.

Speaker 4 (01:25:41):
He tells his friends that Sandra's guess how much money
she spends a month on clothes, food, and travel.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
Guess how much close food and travel? I guess how
much a month she spends a month?

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
Okay, Well, let's let's talk about how much I spend
a month on clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Zero Karen, as a Jewish friend, I.

Speaker 4 (01:26:01):
Need to tell you you just start spending more money
on clothes.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
I have Catholic permission to buy more clothes. And I'm
gonna say, and it's the eighties, right, m hm, five
dollars twenty thousand?

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
What the fuck? But how fun of a month would
that be? If we could do that? You guys, like,
we just.

Speaker 4 (01:26:20):
Had one month where we could do that, we would
have the best fucking month.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
But we're would she do and like go into New
Mexico four times?

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Like what not?

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
It's the thing when people buy expensive clothes, because we're
all like, how that's a lot of clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
Up forever twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
Yeah, it's like no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (01:26:38):
People shop at adults, shop at real places. That's right,
forty one year old, shop at reel stores.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
Got that's so many shirts that are going to pull
apart in three days. Why would she waste that money?

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:26:50):
So she could have bought like two power suits and
that's it, you know, And that's how much they were.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
We don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:26:57):
Okay, in November and the couple separates because of all
this the money problems and she's a crazy liar.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
So he moves in with a.

Speaker 4 (01:27:10):
Friend and they didn't see each other for several weeks,
and then in December nineteen eighty five, Sandra calls him
and is like, let's meet at the storage facility we
rent because we need to get this stuff out there.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
No, thank you, No, never meet anyone at a storage facility.
Why not say, meet me in the middle of the desert,
bring your own shovel.

Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
No, I met my dad at a storage facility once.
What I met my dad at a storage facility once,
But I survived.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
It was really depressing because I helped him clean his
storage facility out. So that's just as bad.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
But they're like, it's such a strange like desert of
nothing miss and weird secrets that people have behind some
garage door.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
I would have not met anyone else I know at
a storage facility. No, I'm so mad at him. Yeah, Okay,
he kept trying to make me take things home. Do
you want this?

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
I don't want that went away to throw it away.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
It's gonna be okay, just a weird old mug from McDonald's.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
Okay, So they're gonna meet at the storage facility and
he doesn't show up, right, Oh, so she says, next
thing we know, he is found slumped over in his
bronco in Oklahoma. He had been killed by gunshots to
the head and chest, and it was apparent that his

(01:28:36):
body had been driven to Oklahoma in that car.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
I don't know how they knew that, but that's the story.
I want to say what I think it is, but
it's inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
What don't tell me? I won't tell me. Just his
hair was blown back.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
You made me say it, and now I'm the fucking
bad guy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
It's not it's sad, but within.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
Sad things, that's when my mind starts going, isn't there
something funny about this sad thing that we could say?

Speaker 4 (01:29:13):
And that's when you laugh at a woman who just
told you her sister's die.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
That's how the world works. That's yeah, how you doing?
I'm all right? Are you warm?

Speaker 6 (01:29:27):
You're hot?

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
You're warm?

Speaker 3 (01:29:29):
Hot?

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:29:29):
Okay, okay, so he So Santra's a suspect, but she's
totally uncooperative. She won't speak to anyone and let and
she won't let anyone speak to her her daughters who
are older now, and that this time she becomes known
as the black widow and Dallas in high society, and
Dallas starts talking Matt shit about her all the time,

(01:29:49):
and like, do you know about this thing?

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
You know this thing she did? And everyone's like, oh fuck,
this woman's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
There were probably parties planned specifically to talk shit about her,
because that's the third husband she that's di right, Yeah,
within in their purview, right, you'd be like, buy the cannipas.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
We have shit to talk about. Over break out the caviar.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
Everybody, get a scopa caviar and sit down.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
I'm going to tell you something exactly So.

Speaker 4 (01:30:19):
Also, which is highly unusual, the FBI fucking gets in
onto the murder probe and they're.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
Like, oh, I thought you meant the gossip. FBI, guess
what I heard.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Sorry, she's of course a suspect.

Speaker 4 (01:30:36):
And when they get a phone call from an anonymous
woman called the Highland Park deep Throat, which.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
Is like.

Speaker 4 (01:30:43):
Troublesome on so many levels. It's not creative. First of all,
it makes everyone think of JFK.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
JFK's dick. Oh god, oh if someone's dad here to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
I mean absolutely at least four of them.

Speaker 4 (01:31:05):
And then she scrimps again on funeral expenses, least expensive casket,
convince his friend to cover the burial bills because she
forgot her wallet at the funeral.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
Okay, okay, bitch, no, but like you're going to.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
A funeral, you're not going to be like, let me
grab my wallet, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
No, yes, you are, it's your wallet's in your purse
you're not a man. You didn't forget it on the counter.
It's all in that one satchel that women have carried
since the dawn of time. Okay, so go ahead and
throw that on your shoulder every time you leave the house.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
And that would never happen to you.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
You're right, you know, imagine walking into a funeral free
hand like that, just like, Hey, I'm grieving, Where do
I put my hands?

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
It makes no sense.

Speaker 4 (01:31:50):
It's that friend who always goes out with that and
didn't want to carry her purse, and so you have
to pay for her dinner, except you have to pay
for her husband's funeral.

Speaker 1 (01:32:00):
God, that's like high society scumbag action right there.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Okay. And she was late for the services.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
Of her own husband's funeral. Yeah, she doesn't give a shit.

Speaker 4 (01:32:15):
No, she arrived at the very last minute, dressed the
nines in a fucking mink coat.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
Shit.

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
Yeah, she rolled up like ludicrous at that funerals.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
She's just like hey, she's like, what's up?

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
Oh yeah, call me, that's oh my god, uh huh Jesus.

Speaker 4 (01:32:49):
And by this by this time, she had gotten the
two hundred and twenty thousand dollars from the life insurance.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Less than a year after his death.

Speaker 4 (01:32:57):
She gets the fuck out of Dallas for good because
I think everyone is just talking so much shit.

Speaker 2 (01:33:02):
Just like, sorry, let me light this torch real quick,
just gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:33:07):
Yeah, relocates to Marin County.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
Oh, that's in the North Bay of California. Yeah, right
near you, kind of near me, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:33:15):
Maren County is the richest county in California, I believe,
she Yeah, and my county Wasnoma County, which we had
the most chickens. Proud, proud fact.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
Impressive. Okay. So then, of course she's still fucking.

Speaker 4 (01:33:36):
Hot and beautiful, and no one knows she changes her name,
no one knows her past, and so one man loans
her twenty three thousand dollars. There, another man loans her
seventy thousand dollars. The dude she's hooking up with. Neither
of them saw a penny of it back, and even
though they have both brought her to court, So she
moves around a lot from there, using social Security numbers

(01:33:58):
of other people, takes out credit cards and other people's names,
including her three kids of course, who fucking credit she destroyed,
which like oh, I always hate those stories.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
That's her least favorite part of the story. Credit is
so important. Good credit.

Speaker 4 (01:34:16):
In two thousand and six, she resurfaces in North Carolina
and began using the name Camille Camille Bowers, and she
tells everyone that she is not a nun, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
A religious person I guess.

Speaker 4 (01:34:30):
And she she does like she goes to India to
take care of children and build houses and stuff.

Speaker 8 (01:34:35):
Way is this the Mother Teresa's story? Yes, this is
how Mother Teresa started. So she's telling all these people that.
And so she moved in with a woman named Sue Moseley.
She's a seventy seven year old woman who lived in
a million dollar home on the Carolina coast. She's incredibly wealthy,
and she was basically gonna live in the house and

(01:34:59):
take care of of the housework and she'd get free
room and board, which is like, that's fucking sweet, sign
me up. So then of course she sets to work
taking over this woman's finances. She collected tax records, rerooted
her Social Security payments to a new account, took money
off the mortgage, siphoned off the mortgage money.

Speaker 4 (01:35:19):
She'd like intercept the money. And they were and then
she'd get the mail every day and it was like
your house is going to get foreclosed on and she'd
be like shred.

Speaker 2 (01:35:26):
You know, yes, that's how I do everything. So she
just fucking uses all this woman's money. She goes to
she's like, oh go look, you to the bank.

Speaker 4 (01:35:35):
Sure, let's run an erran and then like meets the teller,
so they'd like know her and she's like, I'm with
her whatever. So then her son, Jim Mosley, gets really
suspicious and in early two thousand and seven, he comes
across a lengthy newspaper report in the Dallas Observer chronicling
Sandra's life. Oh and the reason she left Marin is

(01:35:56):
because in the d magazine Fucking Our Friends skips holland
Worth wrote like a tell all about her and like
people saw it in Marin and she was like you
getta get out of here?

Speaker 3 (01:36:08):
Are you serious?

Speaker 6 (01:36:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:36:10):
So finally that with working with police, there's with Jim,
there's a sting pleas sting, which sounds fun. And on
March second, two thousand and seven, she's arrested in Charlotte,
North Carolina, and she's charged with identity fraud.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
Fraud, fucking throad is so much worse than fraud, you guys,
theft and theft and fraud. Yeah, fraud, theft and throat
make this easier quicker thraad, male thief, theft and social
security fraud. They wait, sorry, but can you imagine You're like,

(01:36:46):
there's like, oh, my, my elderly mom has a new
young roommate who really has an interest in.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
Her life and the bank.

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
And then you pick up a magazine that has an
entire article about this woman.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Huh and how she maybe killed husbands and a woman.

Speaker 1 (01:37:01):
Yeah, murders people, maybe fucking nuts.

Speaker 4 (01:37:04):
Okay, So because of that they knew interest in the
death of Allan Rarek is renewed. Oklahoma City Police put
new resources and manpower into the investigation. On February two
thousand and eight, Sandra Camille Powers pleaded guilty to one
count of identity theft, and at her fucking trial, the

(01:37:25):
mother of Allan is in the fucking audience just being like, yeah, bitch,
I'm gonna come out. She wears a pin with her
son's face on it, just so she could. She said,
I wanted her to see his face and know that
I'm fucking not giving up on this.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
So yeah, fucking mom's damn.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
So she's in prison and they are looking into the
death and they're not giving up on it. Nice. That
is your black widow, Sandra Bridewell.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
You guys, that was amazing. You know what I think
would be fun?

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
Huh?

Speaker 1 (01:38:05):
We should ask Stephen, because you know, Stephen puts that
we find those pictures and then he puts them on
those immortuses. Basically, we should tell him put up one
one random picture at the end because for some reason,
I just want to press.

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
This button one more time. But there's nothing. There's Betsy.
Oh my god, Oh my god, I pull the lights down.
I just put us into a vacuum.

Speaker 3 (01:38:28):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:38:28):
Well that's her with that's allan right there with her
her children. We kind of cutious.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
Wait and so is that is that hers?

Speaker 2 (01:38:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
She looks different in every picture, like it doesn't hurt
the other one wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:38:41):
No, no, I know that. But then that's her there
with him too, as right.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
But that doesn't look like the lady's laying sideways with
her weird eighties hair.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
To me, I think that's fair. Do you think it's
a bunch of different women?

Speaker 7 (01:38:57):
Ye?

Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
Finally I get to say my theory.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
We solve it. It's quadruplet. Okay, do we have time.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
Yeah, let's do a town murder. You guys, it's just
like under that thing. I was like in that table
big time. Okay, tell them the rules. Okay, listen, this
is the hometown murder part, where we want somebody to
come up here and tell us your hometown murder. We'd
love it if it was local, We love it if

(01:39:26):
it was short. You're not allowed to read off paper,
and you can't be so drunk that you can't follow
your own.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
Line of thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:39:32):
You have to to be able to tell your story concisely.

Speaker 3 (01:39:36):
Can we get uh?

Speaker 2 (01:39:38):
Oh god, oh my god, this is panicking. I'm panicking.
Everyone looks so nice. How about you in this?

Speaker 6 (01:39:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
You in the front.

Speaker 3 (01:39:48):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
She made a face like all right, that's gonna be good.
And that's a good sign. There's Vince.

Speaker 3 (01:40:02):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:40:03):
Hi Angela, Hi Angela, Hi Angela.

Speaker 9 (01:40:06):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
Come get a new stand in the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
Come here, okay here cool? Sure? Yeah? Where are you from?

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
Fort Worth?

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
Fort Worth?

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:40:18):
Really, bread, I know it's bright or you have to
see all the people and it's scary, so.

Speaker 9 (01:40:23):
You just have to go to plants Okay. So I
went to high school with the killer, hung out together.
Oh he was a jerk, though he made fun of
me for being fat.

Speaker 3 (01:40:33):
Fuck yamn.

Speaker 9 (01:40:36):
Yeah, so y'all didn't cover anything fort Worth, But we
had a serial killer in the eighties.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
But well, the way did you come up here to
admonish us, because you'll get fucking kicked off.

Speaker 6 (01:40:49):
This stick.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
Mind's really good.

Speaker 2 (01:40:53):
Don't kick me off, please don't. Okay, okay. So September
nineteen eighty four.

Speaker 9 (01:40:59):
Uh, there's a girl named Ginger Hayden and her mother
found her murdered in her apartment bedroom. She had been
stabbed fifty seven times. Foo and I went to high
school with Ginger and she was hanging out with all
the same people I hung out with. But for whatever
reason that summer I didn't hang out with them. So
I didn't know Ginger well. But it was a cold case.

Speaker 2 (01:41:22):
I do remember.

Speaker 9 (01:41:23):
I went to her funeral and that was one of
the saddest things ever.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:41:27):
But so for years they didn't know who did it.
They for twenty six years they didn't know, but they
thought it was either the boyfriend, the neighbor, or there
was actually a rapist who lived to the apartments too.

Speaker 1 (01:41:40):
Like pick one, great a comp great complex food just there.

Speaker 2 (01:41:45):
Later they're like, interesting, stuff's happening over there.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
Ginger lived over there.

Speaker 9 (01:41:56):
But yeah, twenty six years later, the DNA showed that
the skuy shame, we all actually knew he did it,
and he kind of freaked out six months later after
the murder and left. He said, you guys thought I
think I did it, and he left and movie ever
saw him again, which is one of those Okay, instantly
you know he's the one. But yeah, so now he's
serving a life sentence in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 4 (01:42:21):
So he was one of the kids who hung out
in the group and was he her boyfriend or he
was in love with her, but she was with somebody
else and they didn't look into him.

Speaker 2 (01:42:31):
They never suspected him. Oh they did, they just couldn't
prove it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:35):
Yeah, and then the good old DNA or friend DNA. Yeah,
oh my god, that's amazing.

Speaker 9 (01:42:40):
Yeah, it was really weird because when the when the
trial starts happening. Okay, there was a few of us
girls who always kind of kept up with it and
we kept writing through the reporters, going are you going
to cover it?

Speaker 8 (01:42:49):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:42:49):
When it came about the judge wouldn't let the reporters in.
He would not let them have TV cameras. So most
of the.

Speaker 9 (01:42:59):
Local news didn't like cover it. But this one reporter
wrote about it, and she quoted me saying we never
forgot her. That was not me saying I was her friend,
because that would be disrespectful because I didn't know her
that well. But all of a sudden, forty eight hours
is calling me, and different reporters are calling.

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
Me, and I'm like, no, I can't put.

Speaker 3 (01:43:18):
But it was so funny.

Speaker 9 (01:43:19):
The guy from forty eight was like, you went to
high school with my uncle, and I was like, dude,
you hadn't get forty eight hours.

Speaker 1 (01:43:31):
I did not let myself get interviewed.

Speaker 9 (01:43:33):
Okay, nobody else would either because they were afraid if
he was found not guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:43:36):
But come actress, but he's guilty and he's away for hours.

Speaker 1 (01:43:41):
Ye oh good, Oh my god, that was amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:43:44):
Job. Here, yes, here, you get the red one.

Speaker 1 (01:43:52):
Angela.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
And by the way, my niece is with me. You
had the v IP you get to meet her.

Speaker 3 (01:43:58):
Oh great.

Speaker 2 (01:44:00):
Her husband's family knew the eyeball killer. Whoa oh honey,
where'd you go to see her? Where she's laying on
the floor.

Speaker 3 (01:44:12):
Let's hear for Angela, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
That was amazing, great job. Oh my god, what a
perfect ending, What a perfect ending. Uh yeah, these shows
have been so fucking incredible. We knew it was gonna
be good because you guys from the beginning of this
podcast have had this area in Houston. Sorry, both places

(01:44:38):
have had the highest number of listeners for our podcast
we have of all across the board.

Speaker 4 (01:44:45):
Yeah, you guys have been so supportive of us, and
we appreciate it so much. Everyone we've met this weekend
has been so kind and every show has been so
much fun and supportive and fucking loud.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
You guys are so awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:45:01):
It really It sounds super cheesy, but we really mean it.
The fact that this is what we get to do
for a fucking living now is the funnest and most
exciting thing, and it's because of your support. Thank you
so much for being here, Thank you so much for listening,
and of course, as always, stay sexy and.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
Bye guys.

Speaker 6 (01:45:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:28):
We pun, we pun, We've pun