112 - Galore Galore!

Karen and Georgia cover the murders of Rachel Hoffman and Bonnie Lee Bakley.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Last, Hi, Hello Aaron, Welcome Georgia to my favorite mad
that's there we are. When we do this.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Switch off thing, it immediately feels like I'm in second grade.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
I immediately want to ruin it.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
It's you mean, like just say the line that isn't
your line?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, because I hate it.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I know it's really dumb, like blow it all through
the moon, you know.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, it's that. That's the feeling I get to.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
But also it's so easy to follow.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
It is and you just know what to do, and
it's catchy and there's a jingle kind of reminds you.
It reminds me camp. Oh my favorite.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Camping story.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Oh, I have it right off the well.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
No, you want to write off the bat this thing,
correction this corner myself, get out in front of even
the show itself to correct yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
At last, I just want to say someone pointing out
to be on Twitter last week during my murder, I
said the word transvestite. I should have said transgender. And
I think even in my mind I wasn't totally clear
on the differences.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think the person who wrote to us and lots
of people were saying what a good call in and
not a call out. The person said, it's the modern
phrase is trans.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, so I screwed that up, and I one hundred
percent will do my best to move forward and fuck
in do it right.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, here's the thing, and it was such a lovely,
lovely phrase tweet, but I have I don't know, like
when someone says, you know, the common parlance is trans.
I just am speaking from what I've known from when
I heard people talk about it. So it's like, we
do need updates, absolutely, and like, uh, you know, I

(02:03):
think I copied and pasted some fucking thing from Wikipedia
and just was reading it and I need to stop
and think about it. And I'm doing shit like that,
and I know and even though I think, I'm like,
it's so hard about being corrected when you think you're
fucking liberal and woke is fucking like on it, it's
so hard to be like, I didn't screw up.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I support everyone, right, you can still screw up, It's okay.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
And also it's just it's just that fine tuning of
it's not a massive screwup. It's just a person going,
oh that just I don't it makes me feel discluded,
or it makes me feel.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Bad or it's perpetuating a negative stereotype. Yeah, one hundred percent.
Don't want to be parted.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
No, no, no, there's no time for that on this podcast.
Of all the things we're trying to do, that's the
last fucking thing we're trying to do.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Absolutely it.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Also, I will say, in that same vein in a
correction's vein, maybe not all the way in the corner.
But somebody on Twitter was like, hey, have you guys
ever talked about wind River? And I was literally standing
in my backyard like doing one thing, and then I just.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Wrote we did, and it sent.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I wasn't even really thinking about it. Was like I
was getting four things done at once.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
We did.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
And then she took it as like kind She jokingly
was like I was chided, but then I whatever, and
I but I really meant this. I was like, I
really didn't mean it that way. Of course it seemed
that way. It's Twitter and whatever. But what I did
like that she was bringing up. Her point was what
and our point was when we talked about it on

(03:32):
the podcast, is when River is such a great movie
because it's finally bringing light to like the murder and
missing indigenous women of America.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
And also of Canada, right, and then they mentioned this
podcast that I had meant to mention a while ago
and hadn't. But so the podcast was called Missing and
Murdered and season one I listened to and loved it
called Who it Was About? Who?

Speaker 3 (03:54):
It was titled Who Killed Alberta Williams? And that was
really good. And the new season just came out and
this one's called Fine Cleo and it's hosted by and
like you know, made by Connie Walker who's an investigative
reporter and an Indigenous woman herself. Yeah, so it's really
it's really good. I'm gonna listen to Finding Cleo now,

(04:14):
but the first one, Who Killed About Alberta Williams was
really good.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, I can't wait to listen to. But you have
to look up Missing and Murdered as the name.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
The name of it is Missing and Martin. Yeah, I
like that because I was also going to say on Twitter,
and then I was like, never explain anything on Twitter.
It's it's so pointless. But I wanted to say, like
when we did our Vancouver show last the last time
we were on tour and we were in Vancouver, I
wanted to do the high the Highway of the Tears.
But there are so many victims and there's no there's

(04:44):
kind of no single story. It's just all these disappearances
and all these really sad stories. So it was like
I wanted to explain on Twitter. Yeah, I've never tackled
that because once I started looking into it, it was
this expansive.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
And they each have their they each should be their episode,
Like Albert Holliams in this one, it is one of
the women from the Highway of Tears, but it has
not you know, it's it maybe has nothing to do
with any of the other women and it's its own.
It's like, you know, multi part story itself. So it's
so hard to.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Each one of those cases should be It's like it's
it gets so vast.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's very much like the Grim Sleeper.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, it had.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
It went on for so long that there are so
many people that you're talking about that you can't not
under under like serve right those victims, and then were stories.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
I was going to do, like three of the three
victims or one of the victims was it was solved
when they found out that it was this serial killer
and it was caught in a really cool way but
then it's none of the women who this was solved
about were Indigenous. So then I was like, I'm going
to only do the Highway of Tears with a non
indigenous women, and that doesn't sound right, so I no

(05:53):
do that one.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well that's kind and it's kind of yeah, that's not
the point right for what that story is. So it's
very cool that there are people that are dedicating entire
true crime podcast to that area. And thank you guys
who to the people who brought all that stuff up
for us on Twitter, we appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, Now, fun times in the sunshine.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Let's go fun, Let's have something, Let's go to camp.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
We had a little campy kind of event because on
the podcast, I said I wanted to take a tour
of Jet Propulsion Laboratories, which is a place here in
very close to where we are right now in Pasadena
where they build things like the Mars rover and things
that they put on Mars and other planets.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Mars is the only one I know. But so in
saying that on the podcast, we got some responses from
people who actually worked at JPL.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Who were like, I can give you a tour, and
the person that I guess either Stephen picked or seemed
the most credible, maybe was the most high end. Like
we got the guy. Yeah, Stephen was go. He was
only going for the Superstars a JPL. We got a
guy who is an engineer named lou gersh and he

(07:11):
is in charge. All right, listen to this shit. He
is in charge of entry, descent and landing systems analysis
for the Europa project Europe of being a moon of Jupiter,
which Georgia knew.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
She already know that even though I didn't go because
I was sick.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
That's right, it was me, it was Stephen, it was
our friend Scotti Landis, and.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
We took a full on tour of this place.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
It's like this gorgeous college campus but only smart people,
which that's the way colleges should be.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
And did you see that guy?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
When we were walking in a building, there was a
guy that walked out and he was wearing a total
like Blues brother suit, but he had kind of like longish,
like early eighties guy hair, and he was I was like,
look at that rocket scientist. He's so cute. Like everywhere
I looked, I was like, that's the most fascinating person.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Like everyone just seemed so cool and smart, and they
were all working on putting things onto different planets. Oh
my god, it was incredible. Can I say, can I
tell you a love story? Sure? I know a girl
named Nicolette and her Sheridan.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Her like super gorgeous husband is a super smart rocket
scientist loving it. I think he works at JPL. He
was sending when they started first started dating. He was
sending listen. I'm getting all of this wrong, but essentially,
he sends a thing to a planet. Maybe it was
the Moon, I don't remember, but is.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
The moon a planet or is just our moon.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
A fucking rock?

Speaker 3 (08:38):
He sent it to a thing to a place, and
he fucking wrote her name on the machine that was
landing on the Moon or Jupiter or Mars, Nicolette, So
it's going to be there and it's you know, it
stays there forever.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
They can't send them back. So that you really like someone?
Oh goodweet is that? I love it?

Speaker 2 (09:02):
All in all, just it was an incredible experience. Lou
was the best. He was the best guide. We got
to see the coolest things. He's an incredibly friendly, smart,
cool guy. And his wife Lindsay is also listener, So
hi you guys, and thank you so so much. We
actually got to shop at the JPL gift store at

(09:23):
the end. Bought my dad hat, got my niece a sweatshirt,
got myself a sweatshirt. I was gonna buy you a shirt,
and then I.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Looked at it.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
I was like, this is cute to like this font
and I was like really doing it, and then I'm like,
she will never wear this shit, like.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
This is not your spend money. I did. It was
so fun to shop and they had like Steven you bought.
I bought I thought space ice cream.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
I love that they haven't changed the package since we
were children, right, yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Same aston colors.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Neopolitan ice cream.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
And how was it?

Speaker 4 (09:55):
It wasn't good. I took one bite and I turned
to care and I was like, oh, this is bad.
But it was like that thing of like I would
always see that and I'd want it, and of course
my dad or my mom would be like no, yeah,
And then I finally was like, I have my own money.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, it's my life. They were right, and they're just like, oh, yeah,
this is what substitutes as ice cream in the furthest darkest.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Space, because ice cream is good.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Ice cream is good. So anyway, the next time you
hear about any kind of any rover of any type
being landed on your ropa, which is a.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Moon of Jupiter, that's Lou.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's Lou, baby, Thanks Lou, Lou and his team and
everybody else at JPL the coolest, the coolest scientists around.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
The coolest. Can we say, rip Stephen Hawking? Oh?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Very nice?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Nice fold in end cap?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Did you see my tweet where my dad texted me
at eleven ten forty five at night and goes, I
read a thing where Stephen Hawking died?

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Amazing? What does that mean?

Speaker 3 (10:59):
It?

Speaker 1 (11:00):
I think he meant like what I'm mad life.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
He meant a bunch of stuff that he didn't write.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Such a dad.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
It made me laugh so hard. Amazing where it's like, yeah,
you mean dying, dying being a human being. It is amazing.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
I love it all right. I also found out I
got some information from my dad.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
My mom used to give my dad's shit all the
time because he used to have a Jewish girlfriend when
he was in his twenties, and she would be like,
I know you liked her more than me. She knew
her name for some reason. It was like a running
joke between them, and last night we were talking when
I called my dad to console him about his amazement
about Stephen Hawkie's death. Somehow that came up. Oh she

(11:44):
because he found out she was next door neighbors with
Or He knew and told me she was next door
neighbors with Tick van Dyke when she was growing up.
And I'm like, oh, so she was like rich rich
And he goes, oh, yeah, they lived in bel Air
and I'm like, I go, Dad, I'm going there, you
could have been rich, a rich kid been rich. I
could have been half Jewish and half Irish, which is

(12:05):
so badass. Imagine the confidence and the guilt. Anyway, so
I told my dad. I texted my dad that I
was going to find her address and go ring the
doorbell and say that I was the family's long lost daughter.
And he wrote, don't embarrass me.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Anyway.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
I'm gonna embarrass my family so much on stage on Friday. Uh,
I'm gonna do it anyways. It's not about them, No,
it's not. It's not it's about you. It's about me.
Please focus on what's important. Me in a jumpsuit that
doesn't look good on me.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
We're gonna get you the best outfit you know we're
gonna do we can just get you know, we're gonna
do cam We're gonna get you a big chunky necklace.
We're gonna at the waist, We're gonna belt it.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
We're gonna belt it and sent it. We're gonna get
wear spank's arm sleeves.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
That's fucking right. We're gonna wear You're gonna wear like
long gloves up to your fucking tits. It's gonna be amazing.
You know what we're gonna do.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
We're gonna send my tits out by themselves and just
let them do the show opening number lead with the titsieties. Absolutely,
I actually thought of that where I'm like, what if
this is this just show where I just go out
just La style and like Angeline cleavage and a fan
across my face?

Speaker 1 (13:16):
You could you have you hold on a second.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
You know we haven't talked about did you see the
thing that someone posted on Twitter and they're like, you
were in.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
The oh that British shouldn't want to talk about it.
Oh my god, it made me laugh my ass off.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
They said you were in the Observer, some British newspaper
and it was only a picture of Georgia, I know, and.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
It's like the best photo of you. It's such a
good picture.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Oh god, well you know what I was thinking.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
It's only me.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
It's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Why did that happen?

Speaker 2 (13:50):
One of a couple reasons. But I don't think there's
any pick, any any decent picture of me where I'm
standing like full body that I would be the same
size as you, even look normal.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Next Year was a really great photo that Robin Vonswing
took of us. Are like probably, but it wouldn't fit
in that lineup because they were trying to.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Fit those five people because it was like five podcasts.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
And I look like I'm fucking hanging out with the
Osborne You.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
You look like you are on a red carpet like
Hollywood style.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
I was.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
And when I looked at for what for this for
like the food video, the Food Taste Awards, like the
food Oh.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah words, and this is like three years ago, and
I clearly look like that's my bats I'll ever be.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
I doubt it.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
No, You've got so much more ahead of you, girl,
Thank you. I was, I have to say, I was
insanely relieved. So I was just like I don't know
a picture that I can imagine being put next to
that picture that I would be like, oh great, my
mid section is in that newspaper.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
But what's also really funny is Josie.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I'm not gonna be able to remember her last name offhand,
but she's a little bit further down, and she's the
one that used to She's a British woman that used
to be on Whose line is it anyway? With Grig
proops and Ryan's dials all the time like the original one,
she's super hold on. I want to say Josie Moran,
but that's not right, and she has truly wondered. She's
one of the funniest people on the planet. And I

(15:12):
wonder if the girl that tweeted it to us, because
that's how I saw it, if she thought that.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
That was me.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Oh, I mean, I doubt it.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Josie Lawrence.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Josie Lawrence is one of the best improvisers there is
and one of the funniest women on the planet. So
I was like, well, maybe she's mistaking us.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
How sassy I look in this?

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, I know, I know who is that girl? Good
luck with your fucking podcast, all right? It's my turn.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Already, look like her at yours sound like. Oh yeah,
it was such a good picture. I'm happy about that.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
Okay, I found a new Okay, I wonder if you've
never heard of it, like a new police crime drama
hit me on Netflix. Okay, I'm going to get I
feel like I wanted to text you the week I've
been sick and Vince was gone. So I just fucking
binge watched this shit and I was like, I'm gonna
tell Karen.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
It's Norwegian The break No.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Uh, it's Norwegian The Dark No, which is great because.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
You read it.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
It's subtitled so you can eat crackers really lastly and
you don't have to turn it louder. Yeah, which I
realized every week. And how great that was.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's called Borderliner. Yes, I just started it. Oh my god,
how hot is the cop. It's crazy and he's secret gay,
secret gay, which is owing out with the other hottest
guy who's a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
For some reason, I didn't see that coming. When you're
watching a foreign show, I always from watching so many
of them, I'm like, I know what this usually contains.
You're going to set up like the haggard mother that's
still getting it all done.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
And the cop or and then the female CoP's going
to come along and she's hot and they're going to
make out.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes, you just think you know all the tropes. So
that and that guy started kiss see that other guy.
Like we were only in it for two and a
half minutes.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
It was shockingly hot. It was surprisingly exciting.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
He is the guy who plays hot gay cop whose
name I don't have and probably couldn't pronounce if I
wanted to.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Right, it's Vince Stuchster's daughter, right, is so beautiful.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, so such a handsome cop guy. But anyways, I'm
like almost out with it and it's really good. Shit
keeps happening, Shit keeps happening where I'm like I would
have just told already, Like they keep getting themselves deeper
and deeper.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Oh like yeah, I know sometimes they like the line
of you can't suspend disbelief.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah that long, But I get it when it's like, well,
if I now tell, I'm in even more trouble than
if I should have told in the beginning.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Now I'm fucked and needs to keep happening. Yeah, but
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
It's good and there's a strong female lead who's like
onto everyone's lies, and it's just like going for the truth.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
She's a fucking detective as well. Love it, going for it.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
There's something about those foreign procedurals, and maybe it is
the subtitles that I really love.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, it's so much. I like it. They make it
very clear.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, I've spent all day by myself, oh, typing on
in some version, most of it with you, but just
lots and lots of typing and writing in silence. So
I'm really just getting these words up on their feet
right now, just trying some stuff out, and I just
keep saying things and then going like, don't what.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
No. I spent the weekend alone and didn't.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
I left the house for fifteen minutes, maybe because Vince
was gone, you know, and I.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Like didn't change my clothes, I didn't shower.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
I was just like, here's And then it was a
good reminder of like, here's what you're like alone. Not everyone,
but I am a particularly bad single person. Yes, so
it was nice and nice reminder. And then not talking.
But then I realized I was talking because I was
just having whole conversations with my cats. Yes, you know,

(18:55):
that's that's where we go to narrating their lives.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
I mean I start fake arguments just to entertain myself,
where I'll be like, what are you two doing in here?
And they're just laying there like watching me, only with
their eyes moving.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Fun.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, it's there's nothing like being a hermit.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Should we could just like do it.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Let's just get into it. I feel like I've just
had one more other thing to tell you though. Oh,
I was just gonna say, I'm really excited for LA show.
We have to do an LA show in two days.
I'm super excited, but I'm starting to get insanely nervous.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
It's so much higher stakes. Yeah, because people we know
are going to be there.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
It feels like.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
It feels like we've done all these great shows with
all these amazing people all around the country and have
these amazing experiences, and they were all people we didn't know, right,
and there's no way we can prove it. It doesn't
matter that all that great stuff happened, because now it's
just like now you just got to put up or
shut up in your hometown.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
It's gonna be like some of my girlfriends are coming,
and my fucking mom and dad are coming and like
my aunt like come and then.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
All our agents are going to be there. It's gonna
be scary. It's like feels official, and then it also
feels like.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
You know, I also feel like last time we played
LA and did the orpheum, I didn't do like it.
I was new at it, so I wasn't on my game.
It was a while ago, yeah, and so I feel
like this is now my time prove to all these
LA people that I don't suck anymore.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Which is the pressure as if you haven't been performing
and posting live shows where you it's in no way suck.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
But LA doesn't know that.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
No, I know, LA doesn't know anything. And that's the
problem is that, like it's very when we when this
podcast started to actually get popular in a way that
that actually mattered to me, where I was just like nah,
Like in the beginning, I just didn't buy it, and
you would show me things, I'd just be like, this
is a bunch of and I and you like, stop
getting excited.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's gonna it's gonna end, don't be.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I just needed to curb your I want I didn't
want to see the heartbreak. I just wanted to get
it over with, like this thing is gonna fucking stop
that on both of us so hard.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
You're gonna regret the day that you were happy.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
You will rue the day you asked me over But
so to have it when something matters in la, I
just it's like I've lived over twenty five years, nothing
fucking matters, Like nothing punches through. So then to actually
punch through, you think that's what you want to do.
Then it starts happening and you're like, oh my god,
well I think.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
That's like that for anyone with success with low self
esteem or with like low self worth, is when you
get success, you doubt it so much that you're, like
any kind of success, you're like, bullshit, who's fuck? Why
are you fucking with me? You know, instead of being like,
this is great and I'm enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Right because you planned for what you'd plan for, how
it's gonna happen. And if my.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Therapist told me I worship at the altar of doubt
and so anything good that happens, I'm like, no, and
here's why. And it's good that I feel this way, yeah,
because now I'm taking care of myself.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's just that it takes time to catch up, so
then I feel like I'm just catching up in these
last couple of days where I was like, shoot, I
meant to lose forty pounds, Oh shoot, I meant to
do this in that like, oh shoot, we were going
to decorate the stage or whatever, like it felt like
it was we were supposed to do some big like
we're auditioning for our own show.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
It's Wednesday, and I just was like, maybe we should
get our makeup done.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
And I emailed like a friend and I'm like, she's
gonna have a job that day.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
She's not going to do it. Here's the thing. I
know it's going to be fun. And I know that
when I am nervous for something which doesn't happen that
often because I'm an old bent around the blockad hold
to yourself this episode and I have this stuff out,
ask you to you mean to my friend? Okay, all right,

(22:53):
but I'm just saying it's fun to be excited.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, at this late date, it's.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Going to be It's going to be great. It's all
people supporting us, said my mom, and.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
It's just going to be in I'm just going to
focus on Janet's face. The whole time.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
If I don't do well, she will be so disappointed
at me.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Jesus, I think it's you right, didn't I do it
last time?

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Oh? Okay, I go first to tame.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Great.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
This is This is a case that I brought up
a while back and couldn't remember the name of it.
And everyone told me, of course that was listening, and
I couldn't. I couldn't remember. But I was so obsessed
with this when I first heard about it. So I'm
so surprised I haven't done this one yet. This is
the murder of Rachel Hoffman and the creation of Rachel's Law.

(23:48):
And I heavily leaned on a twenty twelve New Yorker
magazine article called The Throwaways by Sarah Stillman. And like
she wrote the piece.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
It like one awards, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, So she listened. I just used a lot of
her stuff. Cool, and she's be thank you, okay.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
So.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Rachel Morningstar Hoffman was born December seventeenth, nineteen eighty four.
She was this bright, friendly, open, lovely person. Everyone who
met her loved her and by twenty two thousand and eight,
oh so recently okay, yeah, by two thousand and eight,

(24:28):
So she's twenty.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Three years old.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
She had just graduated from Flora State University in Tallahassee,
also where Ted Bundy finished up uh huh yeah, with
an undergraduate degree in criminal justice and psychology. So's she'd
also interned as a mental health at a mental health institute,
and she had just been admitted to a master's program

(24:51):
in mental health counseling. But she was also considering culinary
school because she wanted to use cooking to connect with
at risk youth, like and counsel them through cooking. Wow,
so she's like a fucking good person.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
That's a great idea too.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah right, So picture like young pre oh my god,
what the fuck Miley Cyrus.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
She kind of looked like that, like like little.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Hannah Montana before she transformed into hand them. I don't know,
I didn't watch the show, but I long hair, yeah,
like a long, pretty red hair, cute face.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
She looked like she's like like a hippie, like a
hippie jock.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
That you you know, would know. And she liked going
to like fast music festivals, but not like Coachella, you know,
with the fucking not. She wasn't using cultural appropriation and
going to like fish concerts and jam bands and shit, Like, why.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Are you saying that, like that's so much better? I mean,
come on, I mean I would both rather stay home.
But I'm not a twenty three year old, am I.
It's not an either or. There's so many other options.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
You're right.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
She was Jewish, she had been you know whatever. And
she had a social media account for her cat's her
cat for two thousand and eight.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Social media account was she made one for her cat.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
She's just my space.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, oh MySpace.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
But go to these music festivals with all her friends,
and she'd always wear this crazy purple fluffy hat.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
That was her thing, her sickness. Jamiroquoy appropriation exactly, exactly. So.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
She was an only child and she was close to
her parents. But what they didn't know was that she
was in a court ordered substance abuse program because in
February of two thousand and seven, while she was a
senior in college, police had pulled her over for speeding
and found almost an ounce of pot in her car,
which isn't a lot of pot.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
I don't think, so okay, but don't drive around with
oh no, no pot, no, no, don't do it, especially
in Florida. Oh god, you know what I mean, Like
California don't do it, right, Florida, don't don't do it. Yeah,
So it required that she take regular drug testing. But
so instead of being charged with anything, they just made

(26:58):
her go to this court ordered substance abuse program. Quite right,
she wasn't in prison. I mean, she didn't stay there
or anything like that, but she had to go anyway.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
And she was keeping that from her family.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I don't think they knew. Okay, I'm pretty sure they
didn't know.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Okay, she did smoke pot though, regularly, and she also
sold in small quantities to her friends around campus.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
College. Shit. Yeah, you know, I'm not fucking saying it's
okay at all.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
But if you're wearing a big fuzzy hat, you're probably
going to smell sell small amounts of it and smell it,
and you definitely smell like small amounts of pot.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Well, it just so happens that her neighbors a year later,
in April two thousand and eight, smelled pot. It's funny
that you segmented into them coming from her apartment and
we're like called the cops. We're like, dude, you got
to check this house out. I think it's a drug house,
what I.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Know, okay, and so so really chill neighbors, cool pea
best neighbors.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
I just remember when we lived on our old place
and her neighbors were like up up in our faces,
like live so close to us.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
I once like.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Yelled at some kid to be quiet because he was
screaming his fucking head off, and his mom yelled.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
I know what you guys do, just because then.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Smokes pot and she smelled it, you know, And I
was like, oh, no, good, comeback, I get it. You're right.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Your child should be able to scream as much as
he wants because we smoke pot.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Okay, Okay, So they when they search, they searched her
apartment because of this, and they found just under a
quarter pound of weed, four ecstasy pills, and two valium pills.
And I asked Vince how, maybe how much is a
quarter pound of marijuana? And he like looked it up
and told me and he said it would cost at
that time around eight hundred to two thousand dollars. Oh,

(28:47):
so she's probably it's an intent to sell. Probably as well,
you don't have that much pot. Yeah, because of this,
she could face serious prison time for felony charges including
possession of cannabis with intent to set well and maintaining
a drug house. So she's freaking the fuck out over this.
She had just gotten fucking admitted to this master's program.

(29:07):
You know what am I going to do? Blah blah blah.
The officer in charge at this point, Ryan Pender, knew
that she was just a small time drug person supplying
to her friends. Wasn't a fucking kingpin or whatever. Right,
so offers to make her a deal. All she has

(29:28):
to do is identify other marijuana dealers in town.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Do you know this one?

Speaker 2 (29:33):
I feel like I have a shade of it. But
oh my god, here we go.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, has to identify. She just has to identify other
pot dealers in town and she'll get off. They won't
even charge her with anything.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
The answer has to be known.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Always know, I want a lawyer. You can't be a snitch.
Don't be a snitch. Don't you trust that that's what's
going to happen.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Right, the concept of anonymity please from all movies into you.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
We know that will be broken. Well, here we go.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Okay, So she was like, no, I won't do that.
Some of those people are her friends, and she refused
to snitch on her friends. But then they were like,
well how about then instead you become a confidential informant
CI they call them in a drugs sting operation like
a bigger one, And she thought that any charges would

(30:23):
be reduced or even drops as she agreed to become
a CI.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Right, So the.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Next day she first tried to set up another student
at Florida State who was a small time campus dealer,
and she felt so guilty about it that she called
the guy and was and told him what she had
planned to do. She's just like a like, look at
her photo. She's like a sweet baby angel, and not
that it's okay, but she's clearly in her fucking head.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yes, well see, that's the thing, is that idea that
you're going to Here's how I'm going to solve things here.
I'm going to get a little extra spending money by
not getting a job at Staples. What I'm going to
do is sell small amounts of likeable pot.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
And it's like that's fine, except for you are now
in the drug world exactly, and that's how things spin
out past your control, Like you're just pretending that you
will have control.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah, and you keep doing that, and you keep making
bigger and bigger bets like we were talking about exactly,
like in Norwegian procedural dramas.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yes, ask always get a lawyer. Immediately get that lawyer.
Keep your mouth shut. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
So the guy who she called and was like, I'm sorry,
he forgave her, but also agreed to help her with
police oh stuff.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
So he the police had.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Told Rachel at this point that run of the mill
pop bus would not fucking suffice and they needed bigger dealers.
So this was totally not Rachel's fucking thing. She didn't
know bigger dealers, right. But the lord of the student
that she had called was like, I know someone. There's
a dude at a car detail shop near campus who

(32:01):
he's seen dealing drugs, and he said, I bet he
can hook you up. So she didn't even know this guy.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Oh no.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
So Rachel goes to the car shop and speaks with
the guy. His name is Danielio Bradshaw, he's twenty three,
and he gets his brother in law, Andre Green, who's
twenty five, to help her as well. She lets them
know she needs a bunch of cocaine fifteen hundred ecstasy pills.

(32:31):
Oh no, and as she described it, a quote small
and pretty handgun what so. And they were like, why
the fuck do you need? You a little thing, need
a handgun? And she said, I'm a little Jewish girl.
I need to protect myself. So this, I mean, she
got caught with four exstacy pills and they're giving her.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
The total amount.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
That they that for all this would cost that they
were going to give her was thirteen thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Huh. So this is an.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Amount that is way beyond her level of comprehension as
a drug person.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
The thinking behind this of like, we're going to get
a mole and it's a person who is not truly
in the drug world totally, Like it's such a sideways approach.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Right, So, on the afternoon of when the drug bust
was supposed to go down, when she was going to
bust them, so Rachel goes to the police headquarters and
Officer Pender places a surveillance wire and recording device in
her purse, which I guess is totally against standard procedures.
They usually hide it more and it's not in her purse, Yeah,
which also was ware that she had would have to
keep her purse on her the whole time, which probably

(33:35):
looks suspicious. Yeah, so they give her thirteen thousand dollars
in marked bills.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Can you imagine caring thirteen thousand dollars around with you?
I did a lot.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
That's just it's how I'm comfortable, just so I can
get what I want.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
You always need cash, I need you, always do. I
always have to borrow like dollar bills for the ballet
from you. For some reason, I never have dollar bills.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
You know what's really funny. I can't remember what happened,
but I something happened where I didn't have use of
my ATM card. I'm sure I lost it or I
just a thing I often do is just entirely blank
on the pin, Like I'll just be standing there. I'll
be like me, no idea, what that is?

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Is it? Every day? No idea?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Oh I've done that like twice.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
But so I keep somewhere in my home. Why would
ever say this?

Speaker 2 (34:20):
But I mean I keep cash so that I can
always have it, because that's kind of my weird fear.
So I also squirrel it away like just put I'll
put like three dollar bills in my car somewhere.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
To just remember where you keep all of it.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
No, no, no, it's just like I don't think about it.
I don't want to look at it. It's just like
I know something is there just in case they need it.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Well, they say, like for the end days, you know,
like you told keep your gas tank full.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, but also hide money in your house.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Hide money and make sure the money is gold the balloons,
because no cash money won't help you.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Well, you know, my fucking dad bought me silver. He's like,
that's true.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Silver paper Money's not gonna have any value during the
end days, right, silver will always have value.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
He thinks that's that's what's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Why is he buy you a whole bunch of bananas
because that third mad Max fresh fruit was just the
Summit trading item. Paren's onto something.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Remember, just get I don't know if bananas have seeds
or if you have to grow a tree.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Or whatever plane tree. There is a mini banana tree
in this complex.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Is that true? I can't imagine they're at a all.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Just build a little fence around it and say please,
this is mine. Put a post it note that says
this is my yogurt. Don't eat these bananas. I have
a lemon tree, but that's in that's just gonna give
me a bunch of like canker sores.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
I want it.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
No, everyone's gonna need a what's it called, you know, citrus? Yeah,
but so they.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Don't get scurvy. Yeah, Okay, then I have to build
my fence out around my lemone.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
And we're gonna drink your pool water. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Frank already drinks the pool water all the right fucking Franks.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Cozy Cat drinks the fucking pool water too, and they
do it.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
I'm I can guarantee you that the owner of Jacuzziecat
they have like a one of those later things that
has like a water falling. Yeah, and they still won't
drink that.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Stuff animals, right am? I right?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Make them a MySpace page. My cats already have an
Instagram account.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
So they the police assure her that they would be
watching her the entire time and listening. There were nineteen
law enforcement agents tracking her, and a Drug Enforcement Administration
Surveillance Plan plan or plane was circling overhead, so they
she thought that they were She was taken care of, right,

(36:36):
So she's supposed to meet the guys, the drug dealers,
at a public park, and then all these weird things happen,
like on her way there, or maybe she had met
them and they're like, let's go to a different location,
which wasn't supposed to do they go to that location
and then the agents had you know, she had been
breaking up because it was like an outdoor park.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
There's not a lot of self service.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
It was not an indoor it was not well, it
was not the biodome.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
It wasn't.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
This is the saddest thing. Her boyfriend when she texted
him that she's on her way. Her boyfriend joked, texted,
I kind of.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Like you so be safe.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Oh no, I know.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
So then she so she loses contact with the officer
while she's on her way to the second location, and
by the time he hears from her again, she tells
him that she's following them to another location and this
one's at the end of a dead end road and
before so this is what Officer Pender says before he

(37:40):
tell her not to go, knowing that a dead end
road is a really bad thing to be caught in.
He loses contact with her completely again, but she didn't
know that they had lost contact with her.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
She's not a fucking cop, but she's not a trained
anything exactly. Oh, oh, she didn't know they lost contact.
She didn't know that they couldn't even hear her wire.
How would she know, right, because she.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Had been on the cell phone with her that dies
and she's like, well, I'm still wired.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
So so she didn't know.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
And there was a helicopter at some point, so they
must be monitoring me in some way, right.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
So at this point, officers being frantically searching the area
trying to find her, and the dea plane circles overhead,
but there's like, because it's an outdoor park, there's all
this dense brush ahead and overhead, so they can't see anything.
By the time they find the road and the turn off,
Rachel in her car gone, everyone's gone. And instead they

(38:35):
found a spent twenty five caliber round and two live
ammunition rounds, six cigarette butts, and a single black flip flop,
which Rachel had been wearing when she left the station.
Oh no, I remember reading about this when it happened
in two thousand and eight, so I was like twenty
eight and like just being so sad, but also I

(38:57):
was picturing her and how that how you know, when
she knew something was going down, and.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
How awful that would have felt.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
But also, you know I had dabbled in drugs before,
and how easily I you know, she.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Was this Jewish girl who was just.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
Fucking around and having this time in her life when
she was trying something new and made bad decisions.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Which I totally did too.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah, there's no reason I wouldn't have been in that
situation as well.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
So it's just and it's the thing of which which
happens to people of all walks of life all the time,
which is, you did a baud, we caught you doing
a very minor bad thing.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
You're now you're ruined.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Or now you have to get involved in this other
thing that you like. Now you just have no choice.
Now you're kind of our pond, right and just so frightening.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, just that feeling I had no choice and no
way to get out of a situation.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah, you always do, even if it's fucking going to
jail for nine months, you know, it happens.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Take the hit like Henry Hill and just fucking do
your time.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
And what am I saying?

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Never Karen's going out in a blaze. I went no way,
no way. I'm going back to jail, no way. Okay.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
So at this point, Rachel had been working as a
CI for the police department for almost three weeks. That
that's it, and she and yeah, so let's fucking veer
off and talk about CIS for a minute. Rachel was
just one And this whole article, this amazing article by
Sarah Stillman, has a lot of information about this. I'm
just kind of picking some parts obviously. So Rachel was

(40:33):
just one of thousands of people every year that helped
police build cases in exchange for leniency of.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Their own cases. As we know, and it's estimated up
to eighty percent of all drug cases in America involve cis.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, that's crazy, eighty.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Percent, eighty percent.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
And this is partly because police departments have these crazy
budget issues. They don't have the kind of money to
get undercover officers and untrained cis on the own the
way they can bust these people. And it's the small
If it's like a small town, they know the cops.
Everyone knows who the cops are. They're not going to
send one of them in a fucking fake mustache and
be like, oh, I have some drugs, please.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, you can't just Donnie Brasco it up when you're
in like small town America exactly. But it also means
that they're sending out untrained sometimes juvenile, juvenile, juvenile, I
thought you were gonna say, sometimes Jewish, sometimes even Jewish.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Can you believe it?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Occasionally as young as fourteen or fifteen, No, sometimes addicted
people to do in place, some as undercover officers.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
So another factor that came into play with this whole
fucking fiasco is that the is the War on drugs. Yeah,
remember our favorite fucking topic.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
In the mid eighties, Congress enacted federal sentencing guidelines that
impose harsh mandatory minimums for even fucking petty drug offenses,
which means that some sentences for marijuana sales were longer
than those for murder. Yeah, it's horrified, it's ridiculous. And
of course that meant that the US prison population over
the course of that decade doubled and drug informants surged.

(42:11):
But the problem with the CI system is that it's
totally unreliable. It's usually young people from lower income communities,
often black and Latino, who are under pressure to be
informants because they face, you know, so much more if
they get caught with these drugs and if they get
put to take them to jail, and you know, they
have no choice, yes, but to do this. In one

(42:35):
fucking insane case, Lebron Gaither. He's a sixteen year old
student in a public high school in Lebanon, Kentucky. So,
in an uncharacteristic of him, he gets in an argument
with his school's assistant principle and punches him in the face. Oh,
he's taken into custody for juvenile assault and without a

(42:56):
lawyer or parent present. An officer from the Kentucky Es
State Police tells him he could go to prison, but
he unless he agreed to become a local drug informant.
So this isn't even a fucking drug charge. After a sting,
Lebron had to testify before a grand jury against the
drug dealer he'd set up, Jason Knowle. Jason Nole then

(43:20):
makes bail and the very next day the police send
Lebron back to him to do another sting and the
guy he had just testified against, thinking that he didn't
know who was the snitch what, so they sent Lebron
wearing a wire to buy more drugs from the stude.
It turns out that, of course Jason Nole, the drug dealer,

(43:42):
knew that Lebron was the one who was snitching on him,
because everyone finds out everything.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Right well. And also those drug dealers, it's their business, say, right, they.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Have to be like three steps ahead.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Yeah, And it's like if it was another officer that
was being sent out undercover, his officer buddy would fucking
make sure he was safe. But it's just some person
that they don't care about and are not you know,
it's not their business to make sure that this person
is neither trained nor really safe, right, Okay, So so
detectives lose track of Lebron and during the sting and

(44:18):
Jason Nole drives off with him. Lebron is tortured, beaten
with a bat, shot, run over by a car, and
dragged by a chain through the woods and dies. And
it wasn't until twenty fourteen, So this was in I
think it's ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I didn't write it down twenty fourteen, eighteen years after
his death. Yeah, what's the myth?

Speaker 2 (44:42):
No idea?

Speaker 3 (44:43):
The Supreme Court ruled in favor of so they fucking
ruled in favor of his family in wrongful death. It
got over fucking turned, which so frustrating. Then finally the
Supreme Court overturned that overturning and in his wrongful death suit,
and they're awarded a one hundred and forty eight thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Which is not enough. No, none of it is enough, obviously.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
But I bet you that's that thing of when they're
they've built a system around this kind of like these
kind of setups, so when that system crumbles, they have
to make sure people can't then retroactively sue them, because
there could be so many people that could do that.
As you said, I mean, people tweet these things on
Twitter all the time, where the like in Californian places

(45:28):
where drugs pot's legal or becoming legal or whatever, there's
these people who are like, here's this woman who made
three million dollars in her new pot business of making edibles.
Aren't these cute? And then it's like and here's this
black teenager who was sent to jail for fifty years
because they dealt pot. And it's the like, there's somebody
who tweets it all the time, but it's really mind

(45:49):
blowing of like that white cultural filter of when white
people make pot for each other, it's cool because we
have cancer and we have pain and see d oil
and blah blah blah. And when black people deal pot,
you're a criminal and you should be you should go
away to jail forever. And it's super fucked up.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
I mean, and then in a couple of years, in
a decade, and too, like when pot is decriminalized everywhere,
if we're gonna look back and be horrified at how
we've been treating people who a are addicted and smoke pot,
and I mean more than anything, that's the problem. Is
you need to treat the people who are addicted to

(46:28):
drugs and need help rather than I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Prioritize pot in that because that's so many people are
able to live their lives doing pot. There's people who
are on oxy conton who drive like city buses and shit,
like there's an oxy conton problem in this country that's
ravaging like certain states. And I mean that's you know,
the war on drugs is almost like bit itself in

(46:51):
the ass because now we just have pharmaceutical companies that
are like, oh, our drugs are fine, you can't do
those drugs and will pay the.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Doctors money if they prescribe them even though they're not necessary,
and they know they're addictive, and relying to you about
how fucking addictive they are.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
It's very dark.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
It's very dark. I watch Intervention all those shows.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Okay, there's also a case and this so Lebron was
African American Shelley Hilliard. She's an African American teen from Detroit,
and she was caught with half an ounce of marijuana,
which is not a lot, threatened with jail time, but
it was especially scary for her because she is.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Trans and so she would have been sent to a
male prison, oh, which is super scary for her.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yes, So so she agrees to become a CI.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
They set her up to set up her drug dealer.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
He finds out and ultimately strangles, mutilates, burns, and dismembers
Shelley's body because she set him up. One witness in
the murder case testifies that the police had revealed Shelley's
identity to her dealer.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
What all for an ounce of weed? I mean, I know? Okay,
back to Rachel. Okay, So the morning after her disappearance,
she's disappeared.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
The cops call her parents and they're like, hey, have
you seen Rachel? Do you know where she is?

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah? And they don't even yeah, So they're like what
the fuck? They go to Tallahassee.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
They're only told that Rachel is missing, not that she
was a ci or the circumstances of her disappearance. They
don't tell them her parents anything. They go back to
Rachel's apartment to wait and you know, for next steps
or whatever. They turn on the news and that's when
they discover that she had quote, provided assistance during.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
A police operation.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
They find out on TV.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
On the TV and that then they find out that
they the officials suspect foul play is going on. So
they didn't even know that there was foul play. So
then on May ninth, two thousand and eight, after a
two day search, after Rachel disappears, the two suspects are
caught near Orlando and they lead police to a dry

(49:05):
creek bed in rural Taylor County, which is southeast of Tallahassee,
where Rachel's body is found. Wow, it turns out Rachel.
But then it turns out that the two drug dealers
had fucking pegged her as a mark from the beginning,
and they had never intended to sell her any drugs.
All the ecstasy was fucking aspirin. Oh, so they were

(49:25):
going to trick her to begin with. So it was
even a stupid fucking thing to begin with. And then
it's totally it's not totally clear because no one knows
exactly what happened, but it's thought that they found the
wire in her purse and freaked the fuck out, they
shot her five times in the head and chest. So
at a press conference at the fucking scene while her

(49:47):
body is still there, Officer Dave mccrannie McCraney of the
Tallahassee Police Department says, at some point, quote, at some
point during the investigation, she chose not to follow the
instructions She at Green and Bradshaw on her own. That
meeting ultimately resulted in her murder. So they're immediately saying
it was her own fault because she went to another location,

(50:09):
which is like, can you imagine if she went to
one location, they were like, let's go to another one,
and she was like no and refused to and she
thinks there's a plane, there's nineteen officers, she's being followed.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
She's never done this, She's never done this before.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Yeah, And friends and family of Rachel are fucking pissed
that the police were trying to portray her also as
a hardcore drug dealer like criminal, even though she had
never been convicted of any crimes and in the media,
and that because she didn't follow directions, her murder was
her own fault. That's what they were trying to make
it seem. Rachel's parents are fucking pissed, so Irv Hoffman

(50:47):
and Margie Weiss, they decided to put all their energy
into making policy changes to the way cis are used.
So they wanted answer to questions like why was Rachel
used in such a high risk police thing when she
had no train Why was she sent to buy a
semi automatic pistol when she had never even fired a
fucking weapon before? Why was she pressured into taking part

(51:08):
in all of this before she consulted a lawyer, you know.
And they're also not read Miranda rights and not given
their Amendment fucking things because they're not under arrest, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Oh right, So it's basically like, look, if you want
this to go away, yeah, and it's under the table to.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Right, you're not under arrest, so maybe they don't think
to ask for a lawyer. They won policy changes to
the program, like not using people in drug treatment programs,
which makes sense because part of being in a drug
treatment program is we're not allowed to hang out and
associate with people who are dealing and doing drugs right
in the first place. And that nonviolent, low level drug

(51:47):
offenders like Rachel should not be used in stings targeting
traffickers with histories of violence.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Additionally, c I should be given the right to counsel.
That was there, And then they found out that California
was one of the few states that had any rules
governing the use of teenage informants and prohibited recruits younger
than thirteen, which like, isn't it great, Like that's just
cut it off of junior high like that, and they're

(52:16):
the best example of doing well wow, which I was
thirteen when I was using drugs and they could have
fucking had me rat on all those kids.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I was also when you're thirteen, like oh yeah, it's
not good. It's like that idea that you're just gonna
like yep, yep, we're gonna blackmail this this like.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
We're gonna mail this teenager to get another teenager to
get the whatever. A year old who sells a little
more pot in this town, who says a little more
pot in this town, which is like, you're not getting
you're not getting off the street.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Who's a danger?

Speaker 3 (52:46):
You're fucking just yeah, perpetuating this thing of you know,
then these kids get out of prison and they can't
get a job because they have a record. And so
California thirteen Da da da da da. That rule had
been put into place after seventeen year year old Chad
McDonald was brutally murdered and his fifteen year old girlfriend
raped and shot in retaliation for Chad's work as a

(53:07):
low level drug CI in nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Yeah, so they had made this kid, Chad be a CI,
but everyone knew he was dealing math and doing math
at the time, and the police actually knew that too,
but still used him, and everyone knew he was the snitch,
and that still happened. Okay, So Rachel's parents began working
on Rachel's law and they got the father of one

(53:33):
of Rachel's friends was a Florida attorney named Lance block.
He agreed to work pro bono to help them, and
on May seven, two thousand and nine, one year after,
on the one year anniversary of Rachel's murder, Rachel's Law
is signed by the Governor of Florida.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
But it's stripped of.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
So many provisions, it's so basic. But it does establish
new guidelines for law enforcement when dealing with confidential informants.
So it does start the conversation of changing the way
it's done. And it's the first comprehensive legislative legislation of
its kind in the nation. And they're still working to

(54:09):
get policy reforms on a national level. So they're still
fucking working on it. And in twenty twelve, in a
wrongful death lawsuit, Rachel's parents won two point six million
settlement from the city of Tallahassee, along with a formal apology.
Wow sounds way different than what I got.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Yeaheah well, I mean, of course, yea.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Of the police department's conduct. The grand jury, who are
not like Judge Shudy, and they don't fucking usually tell
people what you know, what I mean, they said, letting quote,
letting a young immature woman get into a car by herself,
with thirteen thousand dollars to go off and meet two
convicted felons that they knew were bringing at least one
firearm with them, was unconscious. Was an unconscionable decision that

(54:56):
costs miss Hoffman her life, and Internal Fair's investigation said
that police officers had committed at least twenty one violations
and nine.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Separate policies with this case. Wow.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
So Green and Bradshaw are now serving life sentences for
the murder of Rachel Hoffman, and they her. I think
her parents put together an annual music and arts festival
called the Purple Hatter's Ball, because I remember she wore
that purple hat. Yeah, and it's created to celebrate the

(55:30):
memory of Rachel. It's fucking her favorite jam bands, and
it's like face painting and all these lovely things and
everyone wears purple. And the next festival is in Live Oak, Florida,
this June first and second of twenty eighteen. So murderingo's
and she was a fucking criminal justice major, so you

(55:51):
know she was in a true crime probably. So that
was the murder of Rachel Hoffman.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Amazing, so sad, so sad and frustrating frustrating. Yeah, okay,
so this I'm doing this story this week because I
mentioned it last time. It's the murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley, Yes,
and and the you know, eventual trial of famous Hollywood

(56:19):
actor Robert Blake fuck yes, Karen, and its centers around
one of the most popular and exciting Italian restaurants in
the valley, Vitello's.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
It's gone right, No, only I.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Think they redid it.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
It's still there.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Oh yeah, Okay, it's just totally different now because it
used to be like divy.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Well, it used to be let you know what it was.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
It was like clearly it was like built in the sixties, seventies,
probably early seventies, I would say.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
So the inside was like these big Nauga Hyde booths
that were like red red plastic, fake leather. I love it.
There's a huge like wall, you know, fresco or.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Whatever you want to call it, exactly of like I
don't know, I can't remember if it was like venice.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
And grapes are grapes draped on everything and they're dusty because.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
No one cleans them. Yeah, like literal like plastic grapes,
Like look at the Bounty of Milan or I mean wherever. Yeah,
and they have like a house a glass of house
kianti for three dollars.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Yes, and they have those like melty red candles. It's
just the whole. It's exactly like the classic Italian restaurant.
And the food, like the garlic bread is just a
big loaf of sourdo cut in half with garlic on it.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
I love old school places like this so fucking much.
I want to cry.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yeah, it's you know exactly what you're gonna get. And
Vitello's is good food?

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Because I don't even care if it's like a If
it's the fucking ambiances on point, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Well, do you like.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Opera singers because they have that? Yes, they'll have All
of a sudden, an opera singer will bust out singing.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Can I tell you something really quickly?

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Do you know the one that's just like this on
Vermont called Stephen you know?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Hold on, it's.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
On Vermont Dresden. No, it's on Vermont Cross from the
House of Pies. We go there night.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Oh yes, it's we used to order pizza from there.
I lived on Alexandria. Hold On, it's like Dominoes. It's
like it's not dominant.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
But it's I mean, no, not Dominoes, but like it's
called of the Peace Charlie.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
It's yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Sorry, we can cut this out. Why am I doing this?
Like Polero's That's right, you did.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
It, Palermo. Palermo's just like that. Also, when you go
in and you're waiting for your table, you can get
a glass of like dollar boxed wine. So one time
whence I went through the first time, we were like,
this place is amazing.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
And it was a Friday night, so they had there
a guy with a.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
What are they called an accordion accordion walking around singing
at tables and I go, oh my god, that guy
fucking was the entertainment at my brother's bar mitzvah No.
It was like, is your name fucking Israel whatever it was?
And he was like freaking out too, and it was
it was him.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
And I took a photo of him and he's like,
I remember your brother, You don't, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
No, you know what it is.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
It's the not chain hometown restaurant and Pedaloma. It's it's
Volpies where we go with my family in half of
it is the original grocery store from the twenties. Oh
my god, that they took the like counter out and
put in tables so that you're sitting in the old
grocery store dying. It's really awesome. And that's up the

(59:41):
street from that hotel, Pedlo Mo Hotel. I want you
to stay.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
I'm gonna come with you to Polium one day. You would.
I think when we do our Sacramento show, we should. Yeah,
at night, we can say it.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Laura's okay, totally, But anyway, that's that's so, that's Atello's
It's it's neighborhoodie. It's very Italian like. It's if you
like kiss your fingers, you know, style Italian bullshit. That's
it's there for saying. Yes, that's actually painted on the sign.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
If you like kiss your finger style Italian bullshit, this
is your jam aroo. So this was the play.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Okay, so let's just get into this fucking thing because
it's so insane. So we'll just talk first about Robert Blake,
his famous actor, and up until this point he was
kind of one of those He was like a Hollywood stalwart.
I would say he started he was one of the
kids on our gang.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Oh really, Yeah, he.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Was for in The Little Rascals original They called them
the film series.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
So they didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Yeah, And it was basically he grew up. He was
born in Nutley, New Jersey, to a vaudeville family. His
father was an actor and an alcoholic, abusive, an asshole,
mom unfeeling and the three siblings. They had a little
like a Ville show with the little kids called the

(01:01:03):
Three Little Hillbillies. Put him to work, right, so they
he's and he described his childhood as feeling like he
was like a like a monkey with a monkey grinder,
like he's just out there begging for change around town.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
And that Lee New Jersey, which is horrifying. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Sorry, I got all of the things I'm telling you
right now from a show that I couldn't love the
title of more Rich and Acquitted. So spoiler alert, Well
now we know, but I mean, yeah, but we knew
because this was a famous case anyway. But I mean
it's so funny because it's when I when I look
this up on YouTube, there's like a whole there's a

(01:01:43):
whole realm of rich and Acquitted and they're real because
I when I first started listening to it. I was like, God,
they're being real judgie about like money, and they keep
talking about his money, and then it's basically talking about
how when you have money, the entire justice system works
totally differently for you, and the whole approach and strategy
to the justicism. So system, I'm not drunk.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
So so the.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Three Little Hillbillies have, you know, minor success in Nutley
in New Jersey in the surrounding area. So then, but
it's it's the mid thirties, so because it's after the depression,
the movie business is exploding. Everyone's like, I've got I
do have twenty five extra sense. I want to spend

(01:02:30):
it on entertainment. I want things to be fun. I
want to go and like watch the zigfil Follies or
whatever something big in a movie theater and have a
good time. So his father moves the whole family out
to Hollywood because he thinks he's going to be the
movie star. Bad news.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
They're so poor they sleep in the car. You know,
it's really hard.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
But the father gets a job in a hardware store
and his Mickey was his name at the time, Mickey
go Botosi was his original Robert Blake's name is Robert
Blake's real name Funny. He was born as Mickey Goobaitosi,
Mickey Goobaitosi. He's five years old when he gets the
job on the Our Gang series Wow, and he starts

(01:03:14):
as an extra, and they showed clips on the show
and he is the cutest you see him. He's got
this little twinkle in his eye, but he's also like
he's like a little tough guy and it's so cute.
And then with all I mean Our Gang, if you
go back, if you ever have a dead free day
and you just want to have some dumb fun, the
Ur Gang series was the cutest, sweetest thing, and all

(01:03:35):
those little kids were really talented. Now there is extreme
fucking racism because it was the thirties, but the cool
thing was or I won't say cool, but the thing
that made it slightly different was that Buckwheat was one
of their friends and hung around, right. But you know
there's also as anything from from before times ninety five,

(01:03:59):
it's you know, a different time anyhow, So he basically
he's the one that makes it big and he from
from Our Gang. When that's over, he kind of like it,
basically emancipates himself, runs away, from home. He joins the army.
He ends up marrying a woman named Sondra Kerr. He

(01:04:19):
has two kids with her. Starts as his family. It
looks like he's about to fade into obscurity as like
a character actor that like was a child actor, you know,
because people it was really cool. They had interviews with
like other little kids that had been on that series
that grew up to also be actors, so you could
recognize them as they were talking, and they were talking
about how Robert Blake as a child to actor was

(01:04:42):
really good. He was a really good actor. He was
a really serious child like he was there to like kill.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
It, yeah, which is very taking it seriously exactly, not
just because his parents wanted him to.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Write, not just because he would get the shit beaten
out of him when he went home.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
But it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
That thing where you know, like when those when little
kids have it that kind of way, Why am I
looking at that kid? There's six kids and that's the
one that's he was that so right as he begins
to fade into obscurity, he gets that part. And in
Cold Blood, whoa And if you haven't seen the movie
that Robert Blake stars Robert Blake stars as you know,

(01:05:19):
one of the two Killers and in Cold Blood and
he's so good and it's really I only saw a
clip of it. I've never seen the entire movie start
to finish, but it's really amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
I think I watched it but didn't realize it was him,
And you don't watch it again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Yeah, because it's old, it's like a thing. It's an AMC.
But it's really good also, And then it started making
me think of how much I loved the version with Toby,
that British act, someone.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Like that, that short British actor that's in He was
in Tons, He's been in tons of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
He's so good. And he plays Trum Capodi. You remember
that one and they go out to start interviewing the families.
It shows how Truman Capodi wrote that book. It's such
a good movie.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
That was what's his face?

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Phillips More Hoffman did one version and then there was
an So there was one with phillipsy Moore Hoffman, and
there was another one with Sandra Bullock and Toby Maguire.
No British, Toby, British Toby, Steven's gonna find it Steven
once he's done grooming his mustache.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
David Toby Keith, Toby Jones, Toby Jones, No, I don't
know that, no, no, yeah, yeah, but he's such a
good actor.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
He's in everything and that Oh Infamous is the name
of the biopic from two thousand and six. But then
there's also the the the Phillips more Hoffin one, which
is give it a.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Look, See It's good. I liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
I just love that story that, you know, somebody like
Trium Capodi was just such a.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Insane, one of a kind, beyond belief.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
That was a sidebar to beat all sidebars because basically
he's in cold blood. He comes back and that that
kind of brings his relevance back. And then he gets
the lead on.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
The cop show Burretta. Do you remember that show? I
was too young.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
You were definitely too young, because I was like it
was just in my consciousness. That was like such a
mid seventies show. But Barretta was the cop that had
the parrot, and so if you remember, he was he
was like the Italian looking cop with a white parrot
on his shoulder and he kind of had that colombo
e thing where he was like, yeah, man, you know,

(01:07:42):
and every man, I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Guess is what that impression just was.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
But you but you can look up old episodes of
Bretta and if only for the opening theme song.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
It was. The full version is recorded.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
By Sammy Davis this junior and it's called keep your
Eye on the Sparrow, and it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
You're real right on the sparow. You have to you
have to look it up.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
It's so like it's so like disco seventies, the hardcore,
like weird solo bongos.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
At the beginning, they're like, here we go the streets.
Keep it. Yes, yes, you have it. Holy shit, maybe
if you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Know it, it has This show had everything and he
ended up winning an Emmy for that for that role.
I think that show went on for four years whatever.
So he basically then becomes a hit and he he
does he invests his money wisely and he builds his
wealth and he also became a fixture on The Tonight Show.
And so once Barretta was over, he was still like

(01:08:46):
a big presence in Hollywood and the in the winter
of the year two thousand, he he goes to a
jazz club one night and he meets a woman named
Bonnie Lee Bakeley, and they hit it off immediately, so
they and she didn't know he was a celebrity.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
She actually had to call her sister.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
And say, have you ever heard of this name? Because
he's saying he's famous. But that was in Acquitted, Rich
and Acquitted. But they really did hit it off. Then
at the end of the night, no judgments, they go
out to his van and do it. No like the
alley behind the jazz clubs. That's the first night they met,

(01:09:32):
is they did that? So then there that is where
their fate is sealed. That's where in the alley, in
the alley behind a jazz club. In the picture that
they showed and Rich and Acquitted, it was this purple
van on these big old like jacked up wheels. It
looks it's like half Scooby Doo half like monster truck rally.

(01:09:56):
You're like, where did you get this fucking car? If
you invested your money so god, ye.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
In two thousand two, this car is from two thousand
not the fuck. Good point.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
This is not the seventies we're talking about, not Baretta anymore.
But he was truly keeping his eye on the barrow
and keeping it real, keeping it real. In the alley.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
So now let's switch over to this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Woman, this romance that he's having with Bonnie Lee Bakeley.
So she was born nineteen fifty six in Moorstown, New Jersey.
She was also poor growing up. They're both from New Jersey,
both from New Jersey about twenty years apart or so.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
This is she has a fascinating history.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
And this woman, if you want to talk about somebody
that got fucking maligned after her own death, Bonnie Lee Bakeley.
We all heard every single thing this woman ever did.
She was not there to defend herself or even just
be a presence. Now, she did a bunch of fucked
up shit and that ended up getting proven in court

(01:11:01):
before she met Robert blake. But as the cops said
in Rich and Acquitted, doesn't mean she deserved get murdered totally,
and it doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean she's
any less of a victim. I just remember when this
case started, how often they talked, like on the radio,

(01:11:23):
and you know, like Howard Stern's style, talked shit on
this woman. Yeah, and apparently it was the lawyer's plan
from the beginning. No, yes, they were ready once the
like indictment came or you know, the charges were filed.
The lawyer had it already of like, well, here's the
victim and here's her past. It's pretty intense. So now

(01:11:47):
going back to where she came from, she was married
for the first time and divorced when she was fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Oh honey.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Then she dropped out of high school. Oh after she
had a marriage and a divorce. Sweetie, what I estimate
to be sophomore year. Then she was like, you know what,
I'm past high school now, which.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
She's like, what am I going to go back to
high school?

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Why am I going to go to the spring form?

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Right? I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
I'm a divorce I'm above you all. So she moves
to New York City. She wants to be a model.
She's really beautiful, great features. She's kind of a like
bottle blonde, but in that you know, she's like got
this big open face. She wants to be models, she
wants to be an actress, and she goes right for

(01:12:33):
those nudes. She's like she just she's like, I'm ready
to do it. I want to do it, and let's
do this thing. She nothing pans out, which sometimes happens
when you take nance, people are just like yep, put
them in the pile with the other nance.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
She ends up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Marrying her second husband was her first cousin, No she
has yeah, she did it, and she had three kids
with him that either yeah, yeah, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
No, they did a year like what around year is this?

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
This is the sorry seventies ish, this is like the
early seventies.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Oh, and they're having cousin kids.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
Cousin kids and kind of like a I want to
be famous, but maybe I'll just do this instead.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
That's all fine, But don't marry your cousin, right, yeah,
whatever the fuck you want, don't marry your.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Cousin unless you love hemophiliacs. Then we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
A different thing. Gross. Here's what's kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
So she has all these pictures that she took trying
to get break into show business. Essentially, she's a visionary.
She starts a mail order nude photo mailing like service. Yes,
she puts personal ads in the back of like smut magazines.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
That's like, hey, here's me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Do you want me to send you my nude photos
right to me here and send me this amount of money?
So smart, she starts fucking making bank on this business.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Yes, for her.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
So she's like the original deck pic, you know, like
Nudi she did it first.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Yeah, and she's sent she wrote send nudes please, yes,
and they were like yes, and then she did it.
They're like, I love nudes. I was just reading this
whole magazine of nudes. I'd love more nuds from your home, right,
And she's like, I've got this.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
So she eventually makes so much money off of this business.
She can buy several homes in the Memphis area.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Oh my god. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
So she's she's she's supporting that family. She's like getting
it done.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
We're in the wrong business.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
I mean, you have to be willing to And some
of the pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
Because they're exercise so pass get on.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
All fours with a cowboy hat on a no, no,
I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
There was a lot of that kind of stuff, like
campy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
It seemed very it was like seventy seventies porn had
an innocence about it where it's kind of like, look
at me with no shirt on. That's how a lot
of those pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Say, I've seen Daby, does Dallas have you?

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Is it good?

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
No, it's fun, good storyline, though the powerful spoiler alert
DeBie does dout no no what.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
The whole nighttime soap opera. Okay, so now this is
fascinating and it kind of shows you the mindset, but also,
like you know, she's from Tennessee. She's living in Tennessee
at this point, right in the Memphis area, Memphis, Tennessee.
Just double checking with myself, and she's trying. She still

(01:15:32):
has that thing of like celebrity. She's always been obsessed
with celebrity ever since she was a little kids. She
wanted it, she wanted to be around it, she wanted
to be near it. So she gets this idea in
her head, I'm going to hook up with Jerry Lee Lewis.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
What. Yes, cousins. He loves cousins. She loves that's they
live in the area where the cousin shit is entirely
supported by the community. Everyone's kissing their cousins. People are
used to it. Go go to third base with your cousin.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
We love that, the town says. In nineteen eighty nine,
so she's thirty three years old, she's been married four times.
She's been arrested for drugs, which it's the seventies, it's
gonna happen. Well, now it's the late eighties, okay, but
the seventies have existed, so I'm giving our pass, I guess,
And that's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
What these were even worse.

Speaker 2 (01:16:19):
The eighties were a bit nuts. But so it's nineteen
eighty nine is when she gets this Jerry Lee Lewis plank,
and she actually ends up hanging out and like sidling
up and she's a gorgeous woman. So like she eventually
meets him, she gets to hang out with him a
little bit. I guess, she ends up hooking up with him.
She gets pregnant and tells him it's her baby and his.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
Baby it's his baby.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
She's like, look, this is my baby if it's her baby,
and there's no way you can prove me wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
And Jerry le Lewis like, sounds great. Shit, I'm sorry,
I'm sorry, I keep hitting the bike.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
No, that's okay, okay. So basically Jerry Lelwis is like,
why don't you go ahead and take a preturn you test
for that baby. Yeah, they were very popular back then,
and of course he was not the father man, so
that she basically takes her fourth husband. It is like
we're moving to California. Like she just gets out and

(01:17:16):
I a should actually have you looked this up? Because
this is the best Bonnie Lee Bakeley. She takes all
that money from her home nudes business and buys herself
a billboard on sunset sunset strips like Angeline's style, Angeline style,
except where it's just on the right side it's her
head shot, her eighties headshots where she's just like eh,

(01:17:37):
and then it just says Lee Bonnie that was her
stage name, Lee Bonnie, with a phone number and under.
It's really it's so eighties to me. It's just very like, look,
here's an actress on a billboard. It's so Angeline. If
you're not from La but you've seen her. Like if
they're going to do the beginning of it of a
Hollywood movie, they will cut to an Angeline billboard and

(01:17:59):
that's that lady with the insane brust and plants.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
She's got the eighties.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
She looks like the rocker chick who would hang out
at like the Whiskey Yes in the eighties, who would
like hook up with metal dudes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
Metal dude.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
She's got a big kind of babyface, tons of blonde hair.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
That was a staple of my childhood.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
When we come to La to my grandma's house, Angeline
had a billboard there and I was just like, I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Want to be like her when I grow right, and
I am.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Look at you, Look at you, and you saw yourself
in that British tabloid.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
You've made it well. Also, she was.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Being bankrolled by some businessman, so it was just kind
of like, do you like this person, put them in
your movie or TV show. And that's kind of the
way some people were trying to get famous. Yeah, because
nobody because they hadn't figured out they can do stand
up comedy yet. I'm gonna see if I can find
this for you. Okay, God damn, I just bit my

(01:18:57):
cheek so hard.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Are you okay? There it is?

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
That was on Sunset?

Speaker 3 (01:19:02):
Oh wow, yeah it looks it looks like a real estate.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Yes, No, it's very reasonable. Yeah, and it is very
very beautiful yeah right. And it's just kind of She's
just basically like, if you drive by this and you
want to put me in your thing, totally feel free.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Plus I have home nudes. She you know, she looks
like somewhere between Meryl Streep and Bonnie rait.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
She has that look.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Yeah, so like severe angles but pretty yeah, and a
nice tall forehead.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Maybe a little Sigourney weaver going on. There's a little
weaver in there. She starts writing. So this was around the.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Time where Christian Brando ended up going to jail for
involuntary manslaughter.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
Right Marlow Merlin Brando's son. Yeah, right, Yeah, he's going
off the fucking rails.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Yeah, that's a whole other I didn't even want to
get into it because I'm like, oh, we should save
that one, because that's a whole insane story, these Hollywood murders.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
But so he's in jail, so she's one of those people.
She starts writing him letters in jail, sending him home
homespun nudes. Absolutely, He's like this is great, thank you
so much. And when he gets out of jail, they
start having a relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Yeah, So that's basically kind of this on and off thing.
A lot of people in this special say like they're
seeing each other whatever. We're like, uh huh, we get it,
we know what that means in a van in the
alley behind the jazz club. But then when she's seen
Christian Brando in real life. That's when she meets Robert Blake.

(01:20:45):
That's where that story overlaps. Okay, So Bonnie kept flying
back to Arkansas to pick up her mail because apparently
when she lived in UH she was she ended up
getting a rested there because she had so many fake
IDs and so many fake Social Security cards for all

(01:21:07):
the different people that she pretended to be when she
had that home nudes business.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
She never gives anybody her real name.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Yeah, so she had a ton of fake ID, like
fraudulent ID. Basically, she had gone home to pick up
her mail because she had been arrested. Basically, she got
pulled over. A cop said let me see your ID.
She pulls out one, fifteen other ones fall out. The
CoP's like what the fuck. She gets arrested for a

(01:21:34):
fraud or whatever. So now she's on probation in Arkansas.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
She has to have an address there, Yes, so.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
She keeps she like stays in LA for a little while,
goes checks her billboard to see if there's any takers,
and then she goes back. She has to go back
to Arkansas. She's she's been doing that on and off. Okay,
but once she hooks up with Robert Blake. So it's
April of nineteen eighty nine. Now she finds out she's pregnant. Yeah,
so she both Christian Brando and Robert Blake that they're

(01:22:03):
the father, and she's kind of doing this thing of
like I'm not sure which one I want to marry,
and I'm still trying to pick because Robert Blake had
a ton of money and he was really stable, and
he was actually interested in her, and I'm like into her.
Christian Brando was young and good looking and you know,
kind of like the you know, she was just trying

(01:22:24):
to decide like who she was going to start a
life with.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
So she picks Robert Blake.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
But then when she tells him, so I'm pregnant, but what,
He's just like, you lied to.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Me, and he turns on her. Robert Blake does, Yeah,
he's super mean.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
They have So it also turns out later on when
this when this trial starts, she recorded almost every single
phone call she ever had.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
Shot so they like, when when this case started, I
vaguely remember this, Yeah, they had they have.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
Phone calls of theirs, they have phone calls with other
people she had, Like she just recorded all phone calls.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Weird so they could go through all.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Of them, and that's when they start to find out
her very checkered past, like the actual proof of it.
But basically she thinks she's gonna do this kind of like, well,
I'm pregnant and so let's hook up. And I finally
made my decision of my two boyfriends in my Hollywood life.
And Robert Blake is like, no fucking way, and is

(01:23:25):
so mean and like demanding she get an abortion, telling
her he's going to make her get an abortion, like
all this stuff that she actually ends up writing a
letter to her lawyer saying, if anything happens to me,
Robert Blake is responsible for my dusk.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
So she ends up going back to Arkansas or Memphis,
I think it was Memphis, and she has the baby.
It's this beautiful little girl. I mean, we've all seen
when the case came up. You saw a million pictures
of her. Her name's Rose, and she is so cute.
She looks like she's wearing like a little black hat
of hair, and she's got like bright red lips. And

(01:24:03):
the second that Robert Blake saw the picture of her,
he called Bonnie Blake Bakeley and said, get a paternity test,
because that's my baby. And they did, and it proved
that it was his baby, so he knew, he knew.
It looks exactly like him, and especially when you see
those like our gang clips or whatever's, she looks just

(01:24:25):
like him and she's really cute.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
So he's basically says.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
To Bonnie, move back to LA, make a life with me,
like I want to, Like, I love that baby, that's
my baby. Let's make this work. And so she gets
on a plane, even though she knows she's breaking her
parole or violating her parole, she gets back on a
plane to LA to make this happen. Once she's in La,

(01:24:51):
Robert Blake is like, give the baby to the nanny
for the day. Let's go out to lunch. And when
they're out to lunch, two cops walk up and go,
you're in violation of your role in Arkansas. You're under arrest.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
Stop it and.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Take her away.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Robert Blake's like, don't worry about it. I'll take care
of the baby.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
We've got it covered. Those two cops bring her, they
don't arrest her. They bring her to the airport and
put her on a plane. No back to Arkansas tricked her. Yeah,
they tricked her. So it turned out those two guys
weren't cops. No, they were two friends of Robert Blakes. No,
and they base and this the entire time, it was
his plan to get custody of that little girl.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Oh my gosh. So basically he's got the baby.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
His grown daughter is like keeping the baby at her house,
and he just basically sent her back and was like
trying to get rid of her. So she realizes the
whole thing was a scam. She's furious. She threatens to
file kidnapping charges against him. So they start to work
on a deal because she's like, I will, I will,

(01:25:55):
like throw.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
The book at you. And the deal is she agreed
to drop the charges if he'll marry her. Shut up.
Uh huh, So they that's the most romantic thing I've
ever heard of it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
This is remember the story you told about the guy
writing the girl's name on the face sending it to
a planet. Can you imagine a man?

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
So how'd you guys meet? If so, how'd you invince me? Well, well,
I tricked him. I threatened him with kidnapping charges.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
He retaliated, of course, and then and then I made
him sign a piece of paper.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
That's said in the end, he meant to be he
didn't love me, and I'm never alone with him because
I'm scared of him. What the fuck? So crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
So in this prenup there basically it was like she
was allowed to see the baby once a month and
to see Robert Blake once a month. That's the agreement.
It was the exchange, he will marry you if you
sign this prea she.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
Get out of it. Then if she doesn't even get
to be with her baby, she didn't care about.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Her baby, Well she does, but she there's nothing she
can do because she was in a parole okay, and
they've are kind of got that. So it's the kind
of the only only way she can see the baby,
still be in a life and still get the things
she ultimately has always wanted, which is to be married
to a celebrity.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Oh man, that feels I'm going to move out of
LA right now. It's this town is bad feelings, wall
to walk the lore good night. I mean, anyone who
comes here has bad intentions or.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
Is going to have a bad time, right or.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
Better, get bad intentions or you're going to get screwed.
Screwed before you get screwed, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah,
just real good feeling place.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
It's it's the reason that people come here, try to
do something, and then they're like, oh no, you know what,
I'm now an evangelical Christian.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
Yeah, because I've I've seen scientologists.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Or scientologist or I'm going to be so vegan that
I try to kill you. Like it's people just have
to they have to reassess their entire life. They like
and need a thing to focus on, otherwise they'll focus
on the horrible nothing, or they'll buy themselves a billboard.
Like it's the kind of town where you feel like
you're so nothing for so long that you're like, I'm

(01:28:08):
just gonna buy a billboard. It's the only way I
can break through. It's just it's a nightmare. So anyway,
I like it here though, I mean, no, I love it.
It's pretty happy, Okay, it's really gorgeous. We're having a
great time and guys, we get to do a show
at the Orpham in two days.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
Oh god, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
She signs this prenup that basically gives her almost nothing.
They marry in November of two thousand.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
I wish I could have been at that fucking ceremony.
I bet there was rose petals and love galore everywhere.
It's just like it scattered.

Speaker 2 (01:28:42):
I just use the word galore, and I think I
might never stop using the word galore. It's so fun
to say.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
It's of that time. It feels of this era. Yes,
and I mean, like, you know, it's two thousand, but
like this fucking thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
Six months later, when her probation ends in Arkansas, she
officially moves to La She moves into the guest house
on his property, not into his house, her husband's house.
She moves into the guest house and they never share
the same house. They only ever set it up like that,
So it's not a real Yeah, I don't get it.

(01:29:17):
It's very strange.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
So then this all leads up. Now we are up
to May fourth of two.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
Thousand and one, when Robert Blake asks Bonnie if she
would like to go out to dinner.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
Do they ever go like on dates or anything like that?

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
Do we know it doesn't sound like it?

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
Yeah, No, it sounds like a real bummer. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
It sounds like the most toxic relationship and the most
codependent bad intentions from every direction. Also, it's that thing
of like if you are if you get together with
a guy and then the only way you can see
staying in his life is tricking him into thinking he's
fathered your child. I'd go back to square, go back

(01:29:58):
to that jazz bar and pick somebody else.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Or start, you know, go back you in further start it,
go to therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
Yes, start there, ask some questions.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
So then when you get to the jazz bar, you
pick a you know, good kind person.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
Yeah you maybe drop some of that whatever happened to
you in junior high. Yeah, drop drop some of that.
My first marriage was when I was fifteen. See see
if you can start a new Yeah. None of this
is the whine is helping anybody, uh, or constructive in
any way. So they go to dinner. He says, I
want to take you to Vitello's. She's like, hell, yes, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
I love fucking dusty grape, fake grapes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
I love red sauce, I love melted mozzarella on you know,
pottery box KIANTI favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
Uh, what's the wine, the one that's so funny sable?
Oh vin Rose, that's my grandma used to order. Oh
my god, I love a vin Rose.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
She had a weird New York accent cause she was
from San Francisco. Okay, So they go to dinner. I
just had to recurrit a recovered memory. There used to
be a stand up show at Vitello's No stairs. Yeah,
this was like late nineties. Those are the kinds of things.
I would be like, sure, I'll do that show, and
I would show up and I'd be like, I'm not

(01:31:18):
doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
This is humiliator.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
I'm not going I'm gonna drink in the corner. You
can have the opera guy take my seat.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Uh. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
So Robert Blake tells Bonnie that he has brought his
nine millimeter pistol with him to dinner because of all
the unscrupulous business that she's involved in and for her safety.
I'm sure She's like, sounds great, I'll have the bread sticks.
And she ordered the bread sticks.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
Just bread sticks. Sounds fucking great.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
You know, when you're trying to be ladylike on a
day you're on the diet, I'll just get seven breadsticks.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
And I just have the bread sticks and a picture.

Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
Of ice tea. God, I love Fatello's. So they leave
the restaurant at nine twenty four and between nine twenty
four and nine forty, Bonnie Lee Bakeley is shot in
Robert Blake's car in the parking lot of Vtello's. He

(01:32:20):
she is he so he they get into the car
and then he goes, sorry, I left my gun in
the restaurant. I'll be right back, and goes back into
the restaurant to get his gun that he says he
left in the booth. Right, There are no witnesses from
the restaurant that say he went back into the restaurant.
No one saw him go in and get his gun.
But while he he claims in his alibi, is that

(01:32:42):
when he while she was getting shot outside, he was
inside getting his gun.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
But nobody saw him. No one saw him.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
But it's a perfect alibi because it's like, well, I
was inside with my gun.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
Just say inside the pee. Like why did he have
to introduce the gun part, I.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Guess to cover the fact that that's where his gun was,
Like make it real clear.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
That, oh, he didn't even have his gun on him. Yeah,
the gun wasn't anywhere but in the rest.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
Then why didn't he actually do that and waving everyone
with the gun? Hi, guys, so they all said they
saw him.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
Waving with the gun. You know what I mean? Yeah,
I don't know, and I'm a master fucking criminal criminal, And.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
I mean, would that have helped be? Like, hey, guys,
you know, thanks again, thanks. This one's for the opera
singer chew into the ceiling.

Speaker 1 (01:33:27):
I'm sorry, I'm making light of this.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
No, no, no, I mean what we're making light of is
the plan.

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
The whole. What we're making light of is life and
how fucking stupid it is.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
And also how Hollywood makes you think you can do
things you shouldn't and can't do.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
But it fucking money and acquittal, the TV show Rich
Acquidded has shown us anything. It's true. It is true.
It's true.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
It's why people want it so badly because it gets
you to a place I was right, Rich and acquitted.
It gets you to a place where you were untouchable.
And that's what I've everybody wants. That's real power.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
So I don't want to be touchable, Oh do you? I
don't want to be untouchable. I think you're silky soft
and totally touchable. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
So at nine p forty, Robert Blake rings the doorbell
of a neighbor of Votello's why because he went there
to call nine one one to the neighbors screaming, going
fucking berserk god, and the neighbor is it's a guy
named Sean Stanek. It's his house. He goes there to

(01:34:34):
his house to call nine nine one one. When he leaves,
and the cops to like go to the crime scene
he call. He waits a little while, then he calls
police again and he asks them to come and look
through his house because he he thinks Robert Blake might
have hid something there while he was there. He says
his behavior was so strange and over the top and bizarre,

(01:34:55):
and he was screaming and being super crazy about my wife,
my life whatever. That He was like, I don't I
just want you guys to come and look.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
I feel like he did something and I didn't catch it,
which I think is amazing and such a cool move
where it's like, could I just invite you guys back
really quick. He didn't even try to look for it himself.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
He was just like, something's fucking off and I am
not putting my fingerprints on it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
Get the authorities in here, absolutely asap. Well, Don Shaun
stannic So and other neighbors in the neighborhood were like, yeah,
he was just running around screaming and like and like
just so clearly presented like I'm freaking out, but a
little vad Villian and over.

Speaker 1 (01:35:33):
The sure slay it to the back what do you
mean right.

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
Yeah, exactly played to the back row. So uh so
police are like, well, this is strange because again no
witnesses actually saw him go into Votello's the second time.
And he also Bonnie had a cell phone and was
always on her cell phone. She was like, as we

(01:35:56):
know for her recorded messages obsession. She was a big
phone person, always had her phone on her. He could
have taken her phone on called.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
Nine one one right there at the car, and he
didn't do it, okay. He also he was taken in
for questioning after like they all left the scene. So
Bonnie was shot twice in the car.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
She was sitting in the car in the passenger seat,
shot through the window, blood all in the car. She
was taken the ambulance came and she was taken in
the hospital, but she died at the hospital. Robert Blake
was taken in for questioning by the detectives never asked
how she was no, so they were like, yeah, the

(01:36:39):
couple of these things aren't adding up in a big way.
They do the gun residue on his hands tests inconclusive.
They end up, which is super brilliant idea and like
you know, for two thousands, pretty advanced. There's a dumpster
that the car is parked right next to, and instead
of going through the dumpster there, they just take the

(01:37:02):
entire dumpster back to like the forensics lab or whatever
and go through every piece of garbage, piece by piece.
So smart to find, yeah, to find anything. And they
end up finding this. It's a nine milimeters it's a
very rare World War two German officer's gun. That's a
P thirty eight nine milimeters pistol.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
No idea.

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
But when they find it, it's covered in motor oil,
so they can't get any fingerprints off of it or
even or do any ballistics on it. It's just completely ruined.
They think, intentionally, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:37:36):
I wonder if that was a fucking plot line and
an episode of Barretta. They should have fucking looked that up.

Speaker 1 (01:37:41):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:37:42):
That's a fucking genius idea.

Speaker 1 (01:37:45):
Is Double Jeopardy still a thing, bring him back, bring.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
Him on back. That is such a good idea. I
wonder if anybody looked up all the episodes of Barretta
and just been like, this person did this, this person
this was the plan.

Speaker 1 (01:37:57):
Sure, Okay, the next day.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
He gets he lawyers up immediately, of course, And the
next day is when the lawyer starts releasing the phone
call tapes of Bonnie, starts talking trashing her like he
had a whole basically kind of like a media thing ready.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
But is there nothing to do with it too?

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
Well, it's it's what it is. Is like they were
trying to build the case that that she had enemies
all across the nation, that she had she had conned
men all over the place, and there were lots of
people that were her enemy, not just Robert Blake. So
as bad and contentious and horrible and loveless and nightmaragh
as this marriage was that she had just entered into.

(01:38:42):
She's still he wasn't Perhaps wasn't the only suspect that
she'd have been looked at, right?

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
Right? Uh? She?

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
And they find out that they start like when they
start listening to these phone calls, they start finding these
old men all around the country, that they they thought
she was his, that they thought she was their wife.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
No, they.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
They thought they were married. She was married to lots
of people. She got married a lot, and she would
take out life insurance policies on them, and she also
had them change their will to include her in it. Yeah,
that happened. That was a couple of them. Now this also,
this was in rich and quitted. But this also was
all the information that the lawyer is just like anybody

(01:39:30):
to listen to it, they'll tell that story. One person
theorized that she had been married over twenty five times,
but the provable amount she was married nine times for sure.
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
So so at some point, like in this process, Robert
Blake fires that of initial lawyer and he hires Thomas Mesiro.
You've seen him on tons of true crime things. He
has strange like a little Dutch boy hair but gray,

(01:40:05):
it makes very little sense. And he's the guy that
defended Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson. So you've seen him
on the okay, yeah, yeah, And so he hires that guy.
Then he hires media consultants to start the story spin
and they get him on Barbara Walters so from jail
in his orange jumpsuit with his hair now turned white,

(01:40:27):
he isn't.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Dyeing his hair black anymore like he had up until
that time.

Speaker 2 (01:40:32):
That was like a big thing. And they say he
did it for sympathy or whatever. But from jail, she's like,
did you kill your wife? And he's like, no, of
course I didn't. He's like as if he's irritated with
Barbara over for even now there's a yeah, he's there's
a touch of lily guilding. But we can't tell if
that's just how he is because he's a child actor.

(01:40:53):
He's never had a normal life like you. You just
don't know. He ends up eventually, he ends up going
free on a million dollars bail, a million dollars rich rich,
acquit it rich and bailed so rich rich, rich and

(01:41:13):
a quinn in Okay. So then the trial starts on
December twentieth, two thousand and four, at good old fucking
Ventura Courthouse, I mean, sorry, Van I's courthouse. That's how
it all ties back in love it now now that
I'm thinking, I.

Speaker 1 (01:41:33):
Know the pre trial was of the Van Eye Courthouse.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
I don't know if the.

Speaker 1 (01:41:36):
Actual trials let's go with it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:39):
So there's two different stunt men who come testify that
Robert Blake solicited them to kill his wife months before
the actual murder.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
One of them they can prove he talked to on
the phone the.

Speaker 2 (01:41:53):
Mourning of the murder Robert, but in cross examination he
gets this.

Speaker 1 (01:41:59):
Mesiro ends up.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
Resigning from the case or whatever that's called, leaving it, quitting, quitting.
I guess quitting is the word I.

Speaker 1 (01:42:08):
Was looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:42:10):
You're welcome, he le's he gets a Blake gets a
third lawyer, And it's.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
Always a bad signment. You have to keep fucking getting it.
Look at Ted Bundy for example.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
It's not good. You're not an agreeable individual.

Speaker 1 (01:42:24):
They hate you, Yeah, they hate They can't even like
they're lawyers and they can't even deal with it. They
can't deal and they don't have to be around you
that much, and they're just like, what the fuck is wrong?
You just do what I tell you and everything will
be fine.

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
No, no, no, no, I'm a rock and roll actor.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
I'm smart.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
Yeah. Okay, So the new lawyer is basically just like, WHOA,
I'm just going to eviscerate any of these witnesses who
even because there's so little evidence that they have to. Like,
So the two stunt men that come and say, oh, yeah,
he asked us to kill his wife. One of them,
they pull up a report that he had recently been

(01:42:58):
hospitalized for cocaine psychosis. Oh no, what's that. It's just like,
you do so much cocaine, you fucking lose your mind cocaine.
I mean, i'd say nights were maybe two nights were
all right. Interesting, it's like you just you started and
you don't stop. Oh my god, and then you just
fucking go bizard.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
So that comes out on one guy, so then he
just like his all of his credibility is done, and
they basically do the same thing to the second guy.
They're just like, oh, you're both you're both these drug addicts,
you're both these you know whoever, you'd say anything for money,
you'd say anything.

Speaker 1 (01:43:31):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
So basically, once they get rid of those two people,
there's no real evidence that they that's that's usable in court.
So the jury deliberates for twelve days. On March six,
twelve days, two thousand and five, Robert Blake is found
not guilty of murder and not guilty of one of
the two counts of solicitation of.

Speaker 1 (01:43:54):
Traits are not guilty, not even like I'm not guilty. Yeah,
not guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:43:59):
No, that's fine. The other count of solicitation of the
of the guy, the cocaine psychosis guy, that was dropped
when it was revealed that the jury was deadlocked eleven
to one in favor of acquittal. So they were going
to go for it anyway, and they're just basically like,
forget that one, and he's just going free.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
Because that one off the whiteboard.

Speaker 2 (01:44:21):
Yeah, they're just like, oh, you're rich, you're acquitted. The
Los Angeles this is from Wikipedia. Well, Los Angeles. Los
Angeles District Attorney Stephen Cooley called Blake quote a miserable
human being and the jurors are quote incredibly stupid to
fall for the defense's claims. There's one woman in this
special rich and acquitted where she goes. Of course, I

(01:44:44):
believe that mister Blake would left his gun inside a restaurant.
Haven't we all left things inside restaurants at one time
or another. It's just like, lady, it's a fucking gun.

Speaker 1 (01:44:55):
Oh it's not your lipstick, but you're fucking re that
you put in the cloth napkin.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
Oh cost your parents three hundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
They were so pissed in Mimi's Cafe in Irvine.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
So basically, the public consensus was that he hired someone
to kill his wife and it's just unprovable. But a
lot of there were lots of character witnesses that were like, no,
he's the best and he would never do that, and
of course there was no evidence.

Speaker 1 (01:45:25):
So okay, go on.

Speaker 2 (01:45:27):
On the night of his acquittal, several fans celebrated at Fatello's.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
And Karen Kilgariff was one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
And I was up there singing opera just like this.
On November eighteenth, two thousand and five, on opera, it's
not what, yes it is. That was verity. Oh, everything's
straight out your nose in opera, this is the barber
of Seville.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
Whether you're speaking about opera, it's opera. Yeah, you don't
have to sing opera, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
This is an musical about singing opera.

Speaker 1 (01:46:01):
There's no actual opera. I'm on here and we're in
a vaca.

Speaker 2 (01:46:08):
A fucking hat, guys. On November eighteenth, two thousand and five,
Robert Blake was found liable in a California Civil Court
for her wrongful death.

Speaker 1 (01:46:19):
Civil court will always fucking come at you.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
They'll come back and they'll be like, hey, we see
things a little bit different.

Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
We forgot to talk about the fucking O J. Simpson. No,
we'll talk about next time. Go on.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
Okay, so sorry base, No, no, that's fine. So since
that time he had to file for bankruptcy, he's in
three million dollars in debt, unpaid legal fees, as well
as state and federal taxes. He said that he might
return to acting because he has such financial problems now.

(01:46:49):
He was like, we're good, bro, Yeah, We're like, we
got we've got it covered, BARRETTA. We're going to hire
the parrot instead. In twenty ten, the state of califn
Ffornia filed a tax lane against Blake for a million
on one hundred thousand dollars one million, one hundred ten
thousand dollars in unpaid back taxes.

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
Ouch it hurts. Now.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
This is a very famous interview he was on. He
went on July sixteenth, twenty twelve. He went on Pierce
Morgan and he's wearing a sleeveless cowboy shirt and a
cow black cowboy shirt and then a cowboy hat dot
and he is gag so crazy you have to look
it up on YouTube. It's an experience to have. And

(01:47:34):
he just starts attacking Piers Morgan for asking him any
questions at all, and Piers Morgan's like, yeah, but this
is what we came here for, as like the interview,
and he snaps and is super fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
I want to watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:47):
You have to watch it. It's a It's pretty legendary.
He told the people that were writing his autobiography that
he hoped for one last great film role but the
but he was in Lost Highway David Lynch movie in
nineteen ninety seven, and that, to date is his last

(01:48:09):
acting role.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
WHOA.

Speaker 2 (01:48:11):
In March twenty sixteen, this is the This is one
of the saddest endings, not saddest, but like one of
the most like oh, endings of any of the murders
that I've done. In twenty sixteen. March twenty sixteen, he
told a reporter that he had a private nurse and
that he was suffering from incontinents and that my friend

(01:48:33):
is the is this sad ending of the murder of
Bonnie Lee Bates?

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
Oh my god? And the rich acquitted experience of actor
Robert Blake.

Speaker 2 (01:48:46):
That's right now, he's eighty five.

Speaker 1 (01:48:49):
He's still alive. Shit, he's still alive.

Speaker 2 (01:48:52):
I think he remarried for a third time.

Speaker 1 (01:48:55):
Someone married him again. Of course, it's the fucking this
is a townful of people who want throw on billboard
how but fucking uh Stephen Hawking is what was he like?
Seventy three? Look such bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:49:11):
I wish I could explain God's work.

Speaker 1 (01:49:14):
I wish he could too.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
It's a mystery. This is just how he does it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:19):
Next time we have to talk about the OJ if
I did it that they finally, Oh thank you, that
was amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:49:25):
That was Oh, so you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
That was so I don't want to call it fun,
but it was a wild ride.

Speaker 3 (01:49:32):
You know who he's always reminded me of is the
dude the dad from fucking the staircase. Hmm, like just
creepy in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:49:41):
Yes, whatever, there's definitely an energy about him that you're
but you can't tell actors are so creepy, is so
creepy that it's like it's that, Yeah, it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:49:51):
Who are is this really you? Or is there another
really you? Are you? Acting or yeah, do you never
know how to not be acting right?

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
And do you just think feelings are weird mass to
put on so you can manipulate people right like instead
of actually having a real time experience.

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
It's like, here's how feelings look like and sound like.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
Oh, literally, I love this place, my gun nah bud
donza everybody pizza for one type of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:50:21):
I got a ring tone immediately, fucking ring tone.

Speaker 2 (01:50:26):
But you're talking about So there was the OJ Simpson
like and if I did.

Speaker 1 (01:50:31):
It special right?

Speaker 3 (01:50:31):
It got it got filmed in like two thousand and six,
and there was like a fucking public outcry and I
was like, don't put it out. But so they finally did.
You ought to watch it and we'll talk about it
next week. Okay, great, it sucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
He did it, Yeah, and he admits to it and
this fucking show, whoa, it's fucked up. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:50:50):
So two women who were one of us, they were Murderino's.
They were lovely women and they were murdered this week.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
Yeah, this is one of the most awful things. We've
been contacted and had a bunch of people tell us
about this. But Steven, just so you guys, know, and
I think sometimes people aren't aware of this. Like Steven
is so good about He's on those message boards with
you guys, and he knows what everyone's doing. He reads
all those emails, so like he lets us know, especially
when something this horrible happens. And so we found out

(01:51:29):
that it was on Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (01:51:32):
When was Monday? One was Tuesday. We found out this.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Morning, Yeah, that two different murderinas in Seattle were murdered.

Speaker 3 (01:51:41):
Separately from It's so so Lita Burns and Samantha Field,
we're both murdered. If you go to my favorite murder
Facebook page, there's more information. We actually don't know a
lot of information ourselves, but we just wanted to acknowledge them.
And we're so heartbroken over it, and not just because
you know they're listening to the podcast obviously, but because

(01:52:04):
it's just really heartbreaking and we feel like they're friends
of ours, and it just feels, really it feels like
we're this club and we've lost two members, and it
feels horrible and in.

Speaker 2 (01:52:14):
Such a such a terrible way, like just we're thinking
about you guys, because they were your friends and you know,
this is this is your guys community that you're building,
and so you're all connected, and the idea that something
like that would happen to you in your community is
just heartbreaking. So we're thinking about you and and we're
so sorry, and we're so sorry to the families. And

(01:52:36):
you know, hopefully they'll be quick.

Speaker 1 (01:52:38):
Uh Like for the for the one that that is
right now, they don't know as much information that hopefully.

Speaker 2 (01:52:46):
That that case will be solved quickly. The other one
is just an incredible tragedy. Yeah, I mean they both are,
but yeah, there's just so much loss and we're so sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:52:55):
Yeah. Okay, So my positive thing this week, I just
want to give.

Speaker 3 (01:53:05):
This shout out to this this movie that I can
put on in the background and Vincent I put it
on at night when we get home from going out
and we just want to watch something, and it's just
you can start it at any point. It just makes
me so happy. It's called Los Angeles Plays Itself. Oh
have you seen it?

Speaker 1 (01:53:23):
It's so good.

Speaker 3 (01:53:24):
It's a documentary about Los Angeles in the movies, and
it shows all the old school movies and all the
places and things in Los Angeles in the background, like
Rebel without a Cause, all these places and it's just
this really lovely, lovely thing to put on as a
nice distraction and you can just watch it and enjoy yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
I would love to see that. It's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:53:46):
It's really funny. After all the shit we've been saying.

Speaker 1 (01:53:50):
That's like the perfect thing to say, because like, no,
what but it actually is really pretty Los Angeles playing itself. Yeah,
I thought Baratus on there there.

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
I mean there's I think he was in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:54:01):
Well never mind, Well that's so they show that too,
which like they say, this is New York, but here's
Los Angeles downtown. I think the Orpheum's in there as well.

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
Oh that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:54:09):
I show Downtown in LA and when it's pretending to
be or when they're you know, to Live and Die
in LA and what.

Speaker 1 (01:54:14):
Parts of La it is.

Speaker 3 (01:54:15):
And it's narrated by the Sky who's got like the
most soothing, lovely monotone voice. Oh, such a good fucking
it's such a good It's just like a good living
creature that I really like.

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
Amazing. Yeah, I love it. I love to Live and
Die in LA is a good movie. Yeah, well, mine's
also kind of on the same. It was making me
laugh there were people that were giving us suggestions for
what this segment should be called, and it was making
people had some hilarious suggestions, but we should think of
an actual theme for it, Yeah, because people were trying

(01:54:46):
to do puns of course, which God, God, people love puns.
But I don't think we have it yet unless you
can think of one. While I say this one, Okay,
I just last night I watched my We all got
to write two episodes on Baskets this season, and my
second one was on last night, and it made me laugh.

(01:55:08):
Now look, I mean part of the reason it makes
me laugh is because Zach and Martha and Louis they
riff so much. Yeah, so we get credit for stuff
that we did not write, and it's awesome. I mean
like watching Zach riff and knowing that the things like
he just writ he just writes the best jokes, so

(01:55:28):
I remember when I can't remember what the actual joke
is supposed to be. But Christine Baskets says to Chip,
She's like, Chip, it's not a competition, and he goes, yes,
it is.

Speaker 1 (01:55:38):
Mother, everything is. And it made me laugh so hard.

Speaker 2 (01:55:42):
And that was totally Zach's joke.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
But there were things in it. That were.

Speaker 2 (01:55:48):
So fun to make up. And I remember when I
was making him up, thinking, I think this is gonna work,
like having that feeling. But it's so hard to believe
in that when you're just making something up and writing
it on the page. And you know, of course, I
always talking about how much I love Jonathan Kreisel is
my boss on that show and the director and the

(01:56:09):
visionary of that show and the one that makes it work.
It's his doing. But he was like, no, no, no,
this is exactly how it should be. In this ending
scene where they're all in this Halloween store having a
fight as a family, is just like I was laughing
at my own writing, which usually anything I watch of
my own gives me great pain. It gives me lots
of like retroactive shame and regret and I should have

(01:56:31):
done this better and I should have done this, and
I just purely enjoyed myself.

Speaker 1 (01:56:36):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:56:36):
It was really fun, and I don't know, those guys
are just we get it's just the coolest thing to
be a part of. So that was exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:56:45):
That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. Wait, I know we'll
call it bragging corner.

Speaker 3 (01:56:50):
How's that how about the positive place, the positive, positive vibes,
positive vibe, party vibes, party vibes.

Speaker 1 (01:57:03):
Yeah, my favorite party vibes.

Speaker 2 (01:57:06):
Yeah, hashtag I think party vibes.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
What do you think this gives me?

Speaker 2 (01:57:11):
Party vibes? Yeah, I mean I'm going to be sarcastic
every time I say it if it's party vibes.

Speaker 1 (01:57:16):
Well, because it's stupid, right, Like I mean it as
a joke.

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
No, no vibes. No, I mean I like party vibes.

Speaker 3 (01:57:24):
No, we'll keep let's keep workshopping that, you know what,
Let's put a pin in it and let's fucking workshop it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:30):
Let's do.

Speaker 2 (01:57:31):
Party vibes is best of Right now, there's all these
people that are like, I tweeted something better on you, Yeah,
and you did.

Speaker 1 (01:57:36):
You're right, You're no, You're absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (01:57:39):
About your own ideas. Don't ever listen to anybody else's
outside influenced.

Speaker 1 (01:57:43):
Don't bother. Party vibes is what it is until we
think of a better idea, okay, and we'll get there.

Speaker 2 (01:57:48):
That's the one to beat.

Speaker 3 (01:57:49):
Yeah, gosh, thanks for listening. We we love this community
and we love being part of it, and we're so
fucking great full.

Speaker 2 (01:58:00):
Yeah, we really are for you.

Speaker 1 (01:58:02):
Guys listening and for what's happened to our life.

Speaker 3 (01:58:04):
We don't talk about it because, like we said, we're
fucking terrified that it's gonna all fall apart the minute
we acknowledge it, and we say it at live shows,
we don't really say it on recorded episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:58:17):
That's true, how insanely.

Speaker 3 (01:58:18):
Incredible I want to say my life has become because
of this podcast. It's true in a way that I
think I fell through a wormhole when I was a
kid and.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
Ended up here, because there's just no way that this
is real. It's so true.

Speaker 2 (01:58:33):
It's so funny to say that because I was today
was my therapy today, Uh huh, therapy day, So, which
is when I get especially like raw and kind of
like that am I saying? Yeah, But I did have
a moment where I told my therapist it really does
feel like everything has come together. It's like it's that
feeling like at the end of a prayer for Owen
Meani where all of a sudden he understands why he

(01:58:55):
was doing that trick shot with his friend the whole time,
because then they're in the war together.

Speaker 1 (01:59:00):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
It had that feeling of like the stuff that we
you and I have been doing lately where I'm like, oh,
I got it. I've been trained for this. Yeah, I
kind of know what I'm doing here, and it finally
makes sense, like I don't know. It's thank What we're
saying is thank you, thank you guys for listening, thanks
for being a part of it. It's we're having the
best time. We're glad, you guys are having the best time.

(01:59:22):
Fucking hooray.

Speaker 3 (01:59:23):
We're so grateful. And uh and stay sexy and don't
get murdered. Bye bye, Elvis.

Speaker 1 (01:59:29):
What cookie? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:59:34):
Do you want a cookie? Good Blue? I want cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:59:38):
You got you got it. I'm sorry to just keep
saying