17 - Episode SE7ENteen

This week's favorite murders include the killing of 13 year old Jennifer Moore in Novato, CA, and the murder-suicide of pro-wrestler Chris Benoit and his family. Plus tons of personal stories, shit talking, staying sexy, and not getting murdered.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
What was that about that breath? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I guess I was just trying to clear a channel
for this episode. Get ready for the for what was
to come, the.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Right of your life. Get ready, get ready for a
roller coaster of emotion. Are you ready? I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Let's do episode seventeen of my favorite murder Storry George
Hard Stars and Karen Kilgara. Hi, everybody, Hi, here we
are Hi. Hi, welcome if you just started? Hi, what's
going on?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Hey? In your life? How are you? Guys? Why do
you like murder so much?

Speaker 2 (00:59):
What's up with you? Did you see something weird as
an eight year old? Or you always had a weird
feeling inside?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Hmmm? Can you talk to anyone else in your life
about it? Is this why you're here? Is that nobody
else it's interested in you and you're a freak.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, because that's why we're here. Hey, So good, good, good,
So here we are on you. That was the intro. Yeah,
these are getting better. I feel I think they're getting
very strong. I think we're professionals.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
People are like I just started, I hit play on
this podcast, but now I don't know what's happening. Yeah,
I'm not sure if it actually started, people are just
talking at each other. Are you I feel a little pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Do you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh yeah, guys. Our ratings went through the roof.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Our ratings just blew. I mean, let's just say it.
Let's just say it.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
We think that there is a computer hacker that's gone
on to iTunes and hacked us into number one.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
And clearly they love us for some reason. This hacker.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
If Andrew Salomson, if this is you, thank you, my friend.
You're a good person.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
It's insane. We're number one on the iTunes comedy podcast list. Yeah,
like our not our picture, but our logo. It's so exciting. Yeah,
it's very it's super cool.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
And we do want to thank Jack O'Brien, who is
the host of the Cracks podcast. That can't be a
coincidence that that thing got posted and then suddenly all
kinds of people are like, hey.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
I just discovered your podcast. Yeah, so thanks Jack. You're
the best.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yep and easy on the eyes, pretty cute. But he's married, dimples,
Calm down, everybody's married. Yeah, everyone chill.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
But that. Yeah, it was super fun on podcast. It
was so much fun. He was great. Yeah, this is
all like this is all I'm saying. I feel like.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
It's weird that we had an idea at a party.
You had the gumption to actually make me do it,
and then something like that would happen.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
I do that and make people do stuff a lot.
It's good. It's good. Otherwise I'll just fall into a
deep dark depression. Yeah. Same here.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
I'll go into my TV room, close the curtains like
Mortitia Adams, yeah, and then watch British procedurals until I
die of old days.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
This is why my blinds that you see right here,
my drapes are are sheer, because otherwise it's just depression ville.
Oh that's true, you know what I mean, Because when
you can't be in the complete dark, you can't be
in the complete dark.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Are you telling me we need to go to Ikea
and get some new curtains from my TV room?

Speaker 1 (03:32):
We are apps of fucatively saying that.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'm going to burn those curtains. I have straight up
a hotel blackout curtains in the TV M. I have
that in my bedroom, but not but in here. It's
like I I'll get depressed. Yeah, although I think you
cured my depression.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
You know, it's very helpful. All At the same time,
I have this thing where dusk makes me really fucking
depressed dust dusk. Oh yes, yeah, it just reminds me
of being a kid. It just sucks, as everyone knows.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Being home alone and being like, do I make my
own dinner. I'm only nine.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
I'm not gonna eat anything because it's too depressing to
eat alone.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh the opposite reaction. That's funny. I was like, I
can make toast. I'll make a whole loaf of toast.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Cheese toasts. Man comforts you, comforts you.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's like, uh yeah, kid recipes like crackers with butter
on them?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, how gross is that? What about did you ever melt,
melt butter, mix in brown sugar and vanilla and just
eat that out of the Never done that? It's let
me just tell you, it's a poor man's chocolate chip cookie.
Fucking delicious. You're basically taking everything good in chocolate toak
cookies and none of the bullshit fuck baking soda, totally

(04:47):
egg raw eggs, who need juck, go away chickens. I'm
just gonna eat the good stuff. I love that.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Wait, did you include incorporate any chocolate chips in there.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, I don't think we ever had. We had very
little food when I was a kid in my house
all times, so it was like what do I have
on hand? I'm going to wrap a slice of turkey
around a pickle spear and yes, dinner totally.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
I do have a very early memory of drinking cough
syrup one time, just and jumping on the bed.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
That's what I was doing that afternoon by myself. We
just full that you knew that cough syrup drinking would
be fun, Like, yeah, I don't think if I hadn't
known that, I would have been. I mean, if there's
ever a sign that a child is going to be
an alcoholic, for sure. That was it.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
That was like the Tom Hanks episode of Family Was
it not family matters?

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Family ties? Yeah, family ties all right?

Speaker 2 (05:37):
When he drinks machine or cherry, like like, what's happening?

Speaker 1 (05:41):
I want to open cut open a tea leaf a
tea bag, poured the tea weaf tea leafs. Wow in
you a little bit of paper towel, rolled it up
like a joint. Because I wanted to see what it
was like to smoke cigarettes. It was like ten and
I smoked that in front of a mirror to see
how cool I looked. Did you look so cool? No?

(06:02):
Did you bar from lit on fire? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
You know, yeah, I would imagine that would go up
pretty easily.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
The point is, don't let your kids be latchkey kids. Well,
one time my mom was home.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
She was just on the phone and when she got
on the horn, she would be on it for like
an hour and a half.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
And I just lit the bed on fire in the back.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I was playing with matches, and I was just like
it was like, strike a match, watch the flame go up,
hold it until it got down to my fingers, and
a million times, drop it on the bed because I
was like five. So I was just like, oh, I'm
done with that. So they're the most flammable. Everything is
so holly esther. They like spray extra flammable yes on everything.

(06:41):
This is when they're trying to light children on fire.
Anyway possible, Yeah, I'm pretty sure. What the top layer
was an electric blanket, which is also the most flammable
thing of all time. And so basically I started a
fire and it got into a like say, a one
foot ring of fire in the middle of the bed,
and I went out to tell my Mom, there's a
fire on the bed and she I was like walked

(07:02):
up to her and she waved my well, never forgot.
She's on the phone with the crazy long cord. It
was mustard yellow. She was walking around the kitchen doing
stuff and I literally was like, imagine a five year
old me with my finger up, pardon me, ma'am, and
she's like out of here. And then so I went
back and checked it and now it was a three
foot ring.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Are you serious? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
And then that time I was like mom and she's like, honey,
I told you I did it. And I was like,
the bed's on Fire's so cool.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
And then suddenly I had a bad reputation in my family.
Oh I'm the asshole. Well who has a number one
fucking murder podcast. Now, Mom, this is the ultimate revenge.
Oh that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Also, our numbers are skyrocketing in uh, Britain.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
The UK, Australia loves us. Those are going latvia. I
hear we're doing. No, that's from my family's from? Is
it for? Really? So maybe maybe a bunch of her
Starks are listening.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'll be amazing. Yeah, Longford and Galway, Ireland heads up.
That's where my people are from.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Represent Let's well, they ran us ran us out because
we're chewsed, so fuck offline.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Oh wait, they ran us out because we're Catholics. I
feel like we were made to have a podcast together. Yeah,
our ancestors wanted this for.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Our ancestors and our shitty little kid selves.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
I just want to mention someone on the Facebook page
if you are new to this podcast, We're all about
that Facebook page. Please join it and join in wonderful
and sometimes quite frightening conversations that go on there.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Someone brought up the fact that.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
We pitched out a very interesting and exciting nine to
one one phone call identify our game that we also
mentioned on the Crack podcast, but we still haven't done,
and there's some people who are pretty pissed. I explained
that I'm very scared of nine to one one calls.
They want us to do it anyway, so that might
be a that might be a good mini.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I really want to yeah, for sure, I really want
to know if we can tell we like, it's just okay.
The other the other yesterday, I watched some videos of
Ted Bundy being interviewed only to tell, like, see if
I could tell if like, if I hadn't met him,
if I would have known, yeah, you know, yeah, And
it's like the same thing of the nine to one calls.
I want to know if we want to play three
calls by a husband's reporting their wivee's dead. Two of

(09:19):
them are legit, one of them the husband killed her,
and we want to know if we can tell which
one is the one who killed her.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
So we have to listen to two real nine one
on calls of a man whose wife has.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Just been killed. You know when you say it like
that through it? Oh no, no, no, no, everyone's being real.
It's playing very fast and loose.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
About the idea of this game quote unquote, you're right
called nightmare fuel two.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
What about one is fake and one is real? That
I can handle?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
And if we play it once because I have listened
to these calls, I've watched plenty of forensic files or whatever.
But they're just horrifying, I know, even when they're fake.
I think they might even be more horrifying when they're fake,
because it's embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
How about we don't do it. Let's hitch a ton
of great games that people love the idea of and
never do and then never do. Why doesn't someone play
the game with the Facebook followers and that can be
on them. That's a good idea, and then report back
how scarred you are, ye once, how scarred you are,
and what percentage of people knew.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
It's interesting that you bring up the Ted Bundy interview though,
because I, as well as a couple people who are
listening and have been talking about it, am rereading The
Stranger Beside Me the and Rule Classic, who was a
crime writer who worked with Ted Bundy on what was
basically a suicide hotline in Seattle in the seventies.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Like can you get more classic than that?

Speaker 2 (10:43):
I mean talk about she was meant to write that
book and meant to do that, but they the part
I'm on right now, he went to this park in
I believe it was like the outer part of Seattle
and this really awesome like lake park. I can't remember
what it's called, sorry, And he approached six different women

(11:09):
that day to help him with his boat that wasn't
actually there, Holy help, can you help me with my boat?
Then he gets into the car and then he says, oh,
actually the boat's at home. Sorry, I didn't explain that.
And that's where he got at least one girl. Now
I'm thinking he may have gotten to that day.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
I just read this yesterday, but I kep reading it
and then falling asleep out of I think, like I
need to leave this these facts and go into a
dream world. But it just makes me think he must
have been so low key because he looked like he
would wear a ton of outfit and he was really
good looking, and he was kind of tall, you know.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah. But here's the thing in the in the interviews,
he he won't make eye contact with the interviewer. He like,
he'll go for long stretches of time, like looking down
in a way and not looking up. Yeah. He also
has like some kind of weird jerky movements a little bit,
So I'm wondering if he liked did he get those
after he went to prison and after he killed a
bunch of people or was he like that then? And

(12:09):
would I even have cared you know? Right? Yeah? I
mean that's interesting. Did he have it like it was
like a tick almost or yeah or something? And I'm like,
that's creepy. But is it only because I know that's
Ted Bundy? Right? He looks like someone my mom would
have dated.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, he looks like he looks like a guy that
would be in like a looked in tea commercial in
the late seventies.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
It was like his pretty young wife. Yeah, they're they're
toasting the gee, they're rolling it up and I'm smoking
it and they're smoking some tea together and having good time.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
But it is I bet you he was. I think
the girls that paid attention were like got you know,
like at first started talking to him and then kept
on paying attention and like got into it, got that
weird feeling and of course once they got to the
car and like, no, see you later. I've got to
get back to my friends. But as we've no, I

(13:04):
think you're gonna say it, as said.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
As we've said so many times, you couldn't be a
fucking bitch back then, and like you were taught to
be nice and friendly, and he fucking preyed upon that.
And he probably also was really good at like turning
on the charm. Oh so he didn't have a twitch
and he seemed very nice.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I bet that twitch came after he was incarcerating me.
He was just like I'm going crazy. I bet that's
what happened. I want to kill would you how badly
would you have? Would you have wanted to interview him?

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Hmm, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I'm not sure about that because I like this story
of what they do.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
I don't want to know that.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Person or be near that person because it is ultimately there,
you know, a little bit of the devil.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, there's that the Iceman interviews. Oh yeah, documentary. And
that guy just seems normal and likable. He's the guy
who was at Mobster a hitman, but he was all
so like a family man and he's just hundreds of
people casually talking about doing it. Yeah, and he seemed
he had more charm to meet and like likability, like

(14:11):
like than Ted Bunny did I know?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, I mean, but he's got to be a sociopath
or he would have been eaten alive by guilt and
remorse and shame and all that.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Right, But I don't think he ever killed women and children,
So maybe it wasn't like Tad Bunny enjoyed. Yes, he
sure did, like got off on it.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
This guy was like it was his job and he
probably felt a little self righteous in it of like,
well they owe money or you know, they wronged someone.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
I mean I support that. No, I don't. That's why
mafia hits don't interest me.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, because it's almost like a business transaction, like you
don't don't deal with people who will kill you because
they'll kill you. So they'll tell you they're going to
kill you. You borrow money from them, you don't pay
it back, they kill you.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
That's very a history of killing you. Yeah, they're good
with killing. It's somehow we still date men. Come on,
it's not let's not be those people. Let's fucking get
in there. No we won't. I'm kidding. All the ratings
drop too, to zero.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Oh, I see what this ahole feminist? Oh those busters too.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
You're here. Let's really quickly do some what's the word
like housekeeping? Housekeeping? Housekeeping? If you're new at listening to this,
I Georgia forget where its regularly.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
And Karen and I Karen do as well. No, you
remember them for me? Oh is that how you? I
think that's how I see.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Okay, So my favorite murder shirts, the first shirts are
the shirts we have them. They're so cute. It's the
it's the adorable drawing, the adorable murder drawing. Karen and
I are surrounded by a bunch of murder weapons, says
my favorite murder on It's done by Michael Rams said,
it's like this fucking awesome artist. Yeah, I love that.

(15:59):
Can you let us? You let us buy it? And
it's so you can go to my Favorite Murder Shirts
dot com slash collections. So my just go to my
Favorite murder Shirts dot com and buy a shirt. It's
only open. The stop's gonna have for like two weeks,
so get on it. We'll probably sell more later. But
I probably shouldn't say that. I should like, oh my god,
a limited time only. Yeah, of course you have four hours?

(16:19):
How of that? And you guys all right, I'm just
gonna say one word. Uh huh Patreon? Oh yes, yeah,
how do we I feel weird? No, we're doing it, okay.
I mean, there's it's a thing that people get to have.
It's not our thing.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
It's people have the option of paying money for a
podcast they like. Yeah, that's just something everybody does. Okay,
everyone I know does it. Everyone with the podcast that
has a bunch of listeners does it.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Okay, it's Patreon dot com, slash my favorite.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Murder Georgia set one up. We don't know what we're doing.
We're still finding out. Yeah, but something's there.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah. If you want to be like, you know what,
I like this, I'll go, here's a buck. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
We figure if there's like a bunch of people listening,
we might as well be like, oh, we're a real
podcast that does things real podcasts do.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, and like I pay for music and movies and
books on pape. Yeah, so if you feel like it, no, presh. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
We don't have to feel guilty, Okay, I won't, okay, gay.
So anyways, that was a podcast thing, so listen, bye bye.
It's all No, it's become all housekeeping. In my end
of housekeeping, I just want to commit. I want to
improve every episode. I want to be a better podcaster
every time we do this. Okay, I really want to
stop saying literally I don't know why I say it

(17:30):
so much. Don't make me say you literally want to
say I literally want to kill myself. It's that thing
where when I hear other people do it, I roll
my eyes internally of like, how dumb are you? Then
I listened back to this podcasts and I'm like, I
am the girl I hate no.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
But when you say it I know what you're talking.
I hear you saying it. I don't think it's too much,
but I hear it's with so so much conviction. I
think this is when I say fuck, it's like I
mean it. You know. It's literally is my fun Yeah,
it's like a way to express how passionate I feel
about something.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
I'm just gonna work on my vocabulary. Okay, I don't
want to say like as much anymore. Oh, good luck
with that, good life with that? Good Oh no, go
laugh at that here.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
It was fast and funny. That's how I like it. Okay,
should we get to sorry one other thing for it.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I was really shitty about the cops that work the
sand Shonder Levy case last week. I was so I
did the thing I hate when I hear on other podcasts,
which people and it happens a lot. I think it's
just a natural effect of going through a case and
being bummed out.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
I was so like armchair quarterback about.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Like they didn't even find a clue whatever. It was
like easy for me to say I've never been a cop.
The funniest part about it is half of my family
are in the San Francisco Police Department. Really, it's not
like I am against cops or judge them or anything
like that. It's it's a it's something that a lot
of people in my family do.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Good men, smart men. So yeah, when I listened back
to that, I was like, oh, no, don't do that.
It's for as someone who studies a lot as people
you and I study a lot of true crime, it's
frustrating to see how slow a lot of the stuff is.
But I think that we're not noticing, We're not understanding
or paying attention to how much. How much is put

(19:14):
into place so that innocent people, you know, don't how
many rules and regulations and restrictions and all these like
all this red tape, like even getting when when they
can't get a fucking search warrant and it's like they
you should have been able to get a search warrant.
It's frustrating, but it's put into place for people like
you and I so far in our lives, who haven't
committed murder.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
And also, yeah, so cops can't just come into your
house whenever you want and be like we kind of
suspect you.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Here's the paperwork. So it's frustrating when there's a lot
of evidence that the person did it and or that
there's something's going on and there needs to be like
immediate actions taken. Yeah, but there's you know.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
And also the more these stories you read, you know,
which is I know one hundred percent of that cops know,
this is every second count. So like the fact that
things got delayed by weeks or months is like makes
you want to pull your hair out. But I think
that's also a thing that's steadily been improving since that time.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
I mean, the more things like this happen, we need
more renegade cops, like in the fucking like the horrible
cop in the show The Family that got canceled.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Oh she will leave our ringing endorsement of that show
that immediately gets canceled.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
That was hilarious. Poison us. No, we're fucking we're changing
the system. Should we do my our favorite murders?

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (20:30):
One more thing, sorry, housekeeping. This is how the whole
show goes. I asked if we should do it. Karen
mentions another, I just want to say, we just found
this out.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
We get to go to the LA podcast Fast this year,
which will be September twenty third to twenty fifth at
the Sofitel in Los Angeles, across from the Beverly Center,
one of the greatest malls in this town. I think
it's a prison, the Beverly Center prison. I think Ali
was just saying that on that the podcast, that it

(21:01):
looks she thought it was a prison when she first
moved to LA.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
That's hilarious because all those crazy levels of parking and
it's just concrete, and so many prisons have sephora us.
But that's in September.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
We figure we tell you now if you want to come,
because that you have a ton of great podcasts all live,
so you basically stay in the hotel. If you go
to lapodfest dot com that you can register and get
a cheap hotel room now and then everything takes place
in the hotel.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
I'm really excited. I've always wanted to do the La
Podcast Festival. I just didn't know how, and you just
made a call. Yeah, that's what I do.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
I've got juice and I'm willing to use it for
this podcast.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
All right. That's I'm swear to God.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
I'm done this time, literally done, naterally like totally done.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
So this is the point of this this podcast. If
you're new is that the title is my favorite murder,
and Karen and I tell each other our favorite murders.
Sometimes there's a theme, sometimes there's not. Today apps loutly
nosing no, thank you, No, I think it's your time
to go first. Okay, I think so this is a
this is an interesting one that I'm really excited about. Okay. So,

(22:11):
and I've been okay, So a lot of people have
found the podcast through my husband Vince's podcast We Watch Wrestling, Yeah,
which is also on Pharaoh and and a lot of
ladies on the podcast or men have said, I listen
to my favorite murder and you listen to We Watch Wrestling,
and sometimes I'm on there's like an overlap and they

(22:33):
get excited and it's silly.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Are you talking about cute couples that listen to the
Q couples Georgia and Vince's different podcasts?

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
I mean it's like you're the Prince William and Queen Vicky.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
What's her name, Queen Vicky? Queen Vicky? Is it Queen
Vicky and Prince William of England? Definitely Queen Vicky. Hey England,
let us know if that's right. We just lost so
many listens. We just love clean VICKI listening, She's like,
back that bitch. All right. So there's this murder that
he told me about when we started dating that I

(23:06):
didn't know about because it's in the wrestling world, and
it's the murder, the murder suicide of and by Chris beIN. Wah, Wow,
have you heard of that? His name Chris spin Wah.
How old is it? It happened in two thousand and seven.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
I think I did hear about it, but I know
nothing about wrestling it.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Okay, Yeah, and I didn't when I first met him,
and now and all this stuff, so it kind of
makes sense to me. So I wanted to explain it
because it's actually really fucking interesting and crazy. And murder
suicides are like, they're really interesting to me because like
it's like encapsulated in this home. Usually the horrors that
go on in this little home where people have lived

(23:47):
and been happy and feel safe, and it somehow degrades
into this insanity. Yeah, and what's crazy about this one
is it the murder. It was the murder of his
wife and his young son, and it happened over the
whole weekend. Oh so he kills his wife Friday, and
I like lives in his house, being like, what the

(24:08):
fuck am I gonna do? He let's start from the beginning. Sorry,
when we talk about.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
That, sometimes that anxiety, I feel like I've I've had
that anxiety of like after you kill somebody when you
don't know you're in a panic. But mine is about
different stuff like that. But it's almost like when you say,
like when you talk about that, and I'm immediately like, oh,
I know how that feels, or it's like, no, Karen,
you have no idea how that feels.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I guess you can. You can sympathize with being like
I had this one little freak out and did something
that's unchangeable. Yes, and I wish and if I could
go back and take it back, I could. And time
isn't a flat circle, so why is a flat circle?
So why can't I go back and change it? Yeah?
I pray hard enough or whatever. Nope.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, And meanwhile, you're just walking from room to room
in a house that no longer looks familiar, right, and
you're yeah, you're experiencing freakouts on new level.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, and life doesn't feel real sometimes, so you would
one would think that you can change it and go back, right,
but you can't.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
But just like when you send a bad text, sorry,
that is permanently sent.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Just like when you accidentally see see everyone in an email,
it's the same thing, right, exactly. So that's why we
always put a forty eight hour hold on our social
media exchanges. Get let the emotions pass. Oh, that's fine,
and then respond. Another good thing to do is write
the response and send it to a friend. Oh yeah,
just be like, hold on to this for me. What

(25:33):
does this look like to you? Yeah? Total insanity. Yeah,
good to know. Yeah, But then when you're in the moment,
you're like, I don't want to know. I'm right.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Oh my god, you're just immediately like go fuck yourself immediate.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
That was the right thing to do. Yeah, then just
stand by it. Never drop that stance, even if you
know you're wrong. Okay. So Chrispin Waugh was a Canadian
professional wrestler. He had a twenty two year career. He
held twenty two titles and he had the victory of
the World Heavyweight Championship main event match in WrestleMania. What

(26:07):
are two exes next to each other?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
That's twenty thank you? Or that's almost super dirty. Yeah,
third grade was a hard year for me. He couldn't concentrate. No,
I was just smoking too many tease cigarettes. Tease cigarettes.
So I didn't even know about this guy. But he
was huge, like The Rock.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
I don't think he was as big as the Rock,
which is a wrestler everyone knows, but he was pretty
big up there. He was widely respected by viewers and peers,
and people really liked this guy. He was a little
weird and a little quiet and intense. Love of people
said he was intense, but that he was a nice guy.
He had a lot of friends. But so it suggests

(26:49):
that depression and brain damage accrued from numerous concussions. Yeah,
that was contributed to him committing these awful crimes.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
The concussion thing is big. Well we're going to get
into that, Okay, yeah, it really is. And then you
just hit play on the movie Concussion.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
And we're just gonna sit and listen to the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Listen to Will Smith do this accent and explain to
you why Concussion service.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Is that a good movie? I've never seen. I don't
want to watch if it wasn't Will Smith, because that
guy is actually really fascinating that doctor. Yeah. I watched
a documentary with him and he's like, I mean, it's
actually a great movie. I just of all the things
I have to do in my day, sitting down to
realize how basically they've subsidized, subsidized.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Damaging people's brains. It'll never stop happening. There's too much money,
and it's a machine where people care more about making
money than human beings. I just get really depressed. There's
a period at the end. That's all true, it's all
so he well, here's the thing. One of his one
of his moves was the diving headbutt. Oh no, He's
stand at the top of the turn buckle, you know
when they climb up high, and he would spread his

(27:51):
arms out and just like do a fucking fall headbutting
the other guy on the canvas, either in the back
or elsewhere. So using his head basically as a weapon,
but like free fall head Jesus Christ. So he had
another signature move which will come back, called the crippler
cross face. And this is a submission hold where he
would lock the opponent's arms behind him with his legs

(28:14):
while pulling back on his neck. It's almost like a
hardcore headlock, but.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Like on the face, and sometimes the move would even
knock people unconscious. Oh, so we'll get back to that
real unconscious, not wrestling unconscious, real conscious. So on June
twenty fifth, two thousand and seven, the police were called
to Benoi's like incredible gated security, hardcore mansion and they

(28:39):
couldn't get in because of all the gating and stuff
which they could have climbed over. But there were two
crazy Doberman pincers sorry German shepherds roaming the front lawn.
Like this guy was hardcore security, showing that he had
a lot of paranoia, but also was rich and famous.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
So you're saying, yeah, but I bet a lot of
people don't have like Nazi dogs totally, you know, on
the property.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yes, And so the home was in Fayetteville, Georgia, but
it was like an unincorporated part. So they had to
get the next door neighbor, Holly Schreefer, who sometimes who's
a good friend of Nancy Binwah, the wife, and would
sometimes take care of the dog. So she clapped Clyde
clopped clopped on over the fan. She was part horse.

(29:22):
She clippity clap. She did it what's the horse maneuver?
You know, some dousage. She did age right over the fence.
That's a general part of making the shirt or not
making light of murder. That's what we are, just making
a light of mistakes in our mouths. That's it. Yeah,
making this Holly person sounds like a good person. So
she got over. She and then then she went into

(29:45):
the house, which you're like, oh, civilian, don't do that. Wait, well,
the cops are waiting outside.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
She goes over the fence to open all the shit,
but she goes into the house, so she sees everything first.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, she goes over the fence, locks the dogs in
the house and like a little spot. Oh, and then
like I'm just gonna do it once around because she
can't get a hold of her friend Nancy Holly. Let
the cops do the once around. Once around, she finds
the kid Daniel, so should I. Basically he did that

(30:17):
crippler crossface on the kid, this little I think he
was seven. There's reports that he had something called where
did It Go? He had a genetic syndrome called fragile x,
meaning he was met the criteria for autism. It's inherited,

(30:38):
it's a kind of a it's like an intellectual disability,
but there's conflicting evidence of that, so I don't know
if that's true. So so what happened was this is
all over the place, isn't it? No? No, no, no, it
was just not at your head. No, I have I
nod in my head.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
So I don't picture Holly walking through the house and
what she's seeing, because that's the bummer.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
So here's how it took place. On Friday night, beIN
walked kills his wife and he leaves her bound at
the ankles and wrists. He covers her in a sheet
and he leaves a bible by her body. That's not
going to work. I know. Died of exphyxiation, had bruises
on her back and stomach, and he had been physically

(31:16):
violent with her in the past. He had been abusive.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
So well because also, I'm sorry, but on top of concussions,
he's probably taking a bunch of steroids, right.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, so they're both taking a ton of steroids. There's
a ton of the wife too. Yeah. Oh, there's a
ton of marital discord. It's on again, off again. They
had just she had filed for divorce and then didn't
go through with it. She leaves all the time he's
possibly having an affair. There's like all these text messages
between the two of them. I should say. The book

(31:46):
that I was reading about it is called Chris and
Nancy by Irvin Muchnik much Schnick. It's really good if
you want to learn more about it, and it's detailed.
Was she a wrestler too, Yeah, no, she was like
the hype man girl, you know that cockgirls that come
into the card over their head. That's no, that's boxing.

(32:08):
I think, like his sidekick, kind of like the woman
and you know, and actually her she was so interesting
and gorgeous that her name at the time was just woman.
Was her like handle? Yeah, that's how gorgeous she was
that she was reduced to a one? Were they? So

(32:29):
she they got set up by her husband at the
time and as like a you know, to be like, oh,
he's cheating with ben Wan. Then they ended up getting married,
so it worked. So anyways, So but.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
It was a story. It was a wrestling storyline that
came true. Yeah, okay, so their lives were a bit
surreal anyway, definitely, definitely.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
So she let's see, there was a pillow leaning against
her head. It sounds like what happened was they probably
got in a big fight and it escalated it and
he killed her. The weird part to me is that
he tied her up, because that's so that shows like
premeditation to me, he didn't just like hit her so
hard or get angry and strangle her. He tied her

(33:13):
up and then killed her.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
I wonder because steroids. It's like I took speed for
a little while in the nineties to his weight and
right fun and it made me insane, like just angry
from the second I woke up in the morning. Yeah,
and if you're on steroids, which is they're basically rage pills.
So it's two people on steroids, I'm sure that everything.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Was intensified times a million. Yeah, Like, and they're and
they're reacting off each other.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
But it's not there's not it seems to me, I
would assume there's not one person going, hey, let's relax
for one second.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, it's just everybody's going through the revision. And he
was supposed to leave that weekend for another match, and
she just was so pissed he was leaving all the time.
They they found the amount of pills that they ended
up finding in the house. It's just incredible. It's they
found soma and hydro coatine which is fucking heroin, right,
and xanax and all these you know, ambient and of

(34:10):
course steroids. And he was actually exempt from the rule
that you can't take steroids the in WWE because he
had ruined his body so badly with steroids that he
couldn't make testosterone on his own anymore.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
So he had to take steroids to get testosterone. Oh okay,
So even though there's a no no steroid rule.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
He was taking him medically. Yeah, but that's so shady, right,
like that that's your solution for being fucked up on steroids?
Is I'm such a bad coke addict that I need
to take code right, Yeah, I've ruined my ability to
whatever anyways, all of the above. Yes, So between the
two killings about three thirty pm on Saturday, it looks

(34:58):
like he might have killed Daniel on Saturday the next day.
So he's hanging out in his house with his fucking
wife in the office dead, not knowing what to do,
calls his coworkers and is like, I can't make it.
My wife and kid have food poisoning and they're really sick.
Kind of tells everyone that so they won't call. Yeah,

(35:21):
so Daniel the kid was then suffocated in his own bedroom.
A children's Bible was left by his body, and he
had become kind of a religious fanatic at that point
by reading. He was reading Imax fandedly in that weekend. Yeah,
I mean up until this, you know, leading up to
the murders, he killed his son with the choke hold,
no bruises and yeah, so he had needle marks in

(35:45):
his arm, suggesting he had been given growth hormones, this
son or the first son, because he had he was
undersized because of this fragile x syndrome that he supposedly had.
But I don't understand that completely. And I'm wondering if
he gave him sedatives.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Oh so he could, so he could, Yeah you know
what I mean, Yes, that would almost be a tiny
bit of a relief.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
As hideous is that. I agree, And he thinks he
and I think in his mind people have surmised that
he was thought he was doing a mercy killing. Of
course he had killed the mom. Let's just fucking end
this the same way that I think a lot of
men who do the murder suicide shenanigans to their family
are like, I lost all our money. I'm not going

(36:26):
to make you live this way, and yeah, right, just
fucking insane. We're good. We want to live as.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Someone who well, yeah it sounds it's twisted as some
sort of noble move. It's total narcissism.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
It's complete narcissism to think that they're an extension of you.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
And you get to make that call, right, it's nuts, right.
And also everybody's in debt. Yeah, relax about it. Yeah,
it's complete. It's it's them, it's him.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
It's the person not wanting them to find out what
a fucking that he wasn't who he said he was? Right. Well,
also this is classic drug brain too, like it's like, yeah,
let me get hit. So yeah, so it's fun. Okay.
So he dies is how he kills himself. He dies
of assixiation. He was found hanging by the cord of
a weight machine. So he goes down to the weight

(37:12):
the weight room, and he he's sitting upright on a
bench on like a weight a weight bench facing the
weight machine. So you can imagine like doing pull downs.
What do they call him. I work out a lot.
He did like six reps of pull down right, Okay.
He was shirtless, his leg was extended, his right blobody blah.

(37:37):
The black nylon weight machine cable was around his neck.
A strip of white towel was underneath to keep the
cable from cutting into the skin, which is like, you
don't deserve that, dude. Oh and he was what's the
yeah okay, Yeah, and he was being held in a
sitting position by the cable. So I think what he
does just like let go of the weight and strangled himself. Yeah.

(37:59):
And it appears that he he actually tried to maximize
his own pain, which is so sad. It sounds like
he he knew he did something wrong. Yeah, it doesn't
sound like he was like I'm in a murder suicide everyone.
It was like, here's a mistake compounded with a mistake,
compounded with a mistake.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, he trapped, He's trapped in this
horror Yeah show. Samalia's would like to note. I'd like
to note that there was a bottle of Dynamite Vineyards
two thousand merlow next to the body.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Why I I'd probably drank it. What's what sick fucks
Somalia's need to make that note? You assholes me. No,
I didn't really ask that. I didn't really request that. Karen,
who means this is.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
The episode I turn on you for liking murder, you
dick to this is discussing tear you.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
So let's talk about his brain damage. So after after
the murders and such, there was no pre existing mental
or physical ailments. He did have some depression, obviously. And
where did my other notes go? Oh, they're at the printer.
I left my fucking notes that sing a little song

(39:17):
about the printer. Printly, it's just right there, printer. It
feels good. We're going to walk it off a little bit. Yeah,
all right. So, uh, they've been searching for answers the
family because it does not add up that this is
the same man, this lovely man, right, this family man's

(39:39):
seven year old son of course down an anabolic steroids.
They thought that it was void rage. But it turns
out that my theory is wrong. It wasn't roid rage.
I mean, I'm sure there was some added to that.
He be ben Wah's brain was that of an eighty

(40:00):
six year old Alzheimer's patient. Yeah, in the same way
with football players who are constantly getting concussion after concussion.
And I mean, there's a story in this book about
how in one fight, he and this other guy just
banged each other's fucking heads into each other until they bled.
That hurts so bad when you hit heads with another person.

(40:24):
Have you ever done that accidentally?

Speaker 2 (40:25):
No, Like you've both been down fast at the same time.
Stone knows what I'm talking about, and you smack your head.
It is loud and it hurts for like twenty minutes after.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
And the idea that that's what he basically did for
a living. Have you ever had a concussion? No?

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I did get flipped out of the back of a
truck when I was in seventh grade.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Remember when we could light fires in our room alone
and sit in the back of truck. Yes, this is
the country life that I led.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Oh this is the eighties, man, we'll already put them unnoticed. Yes,
that's true. For good fucking reason, me and my friend
it was. My dad was so livid because he told us,
don't drive that truck. Definitely too far away. The brakes
aren't great. We drove up into the National Park, uphill, uphill,
up hill, and as we're driving, we can smell the

(41:14):
brakes in the back. Oh but it was It was
our next door neighbor, Andy, Me, my sister, her friend Maureen,
her friend Christine, and remember Andy's friends. I can't remember
Andy's friend's name. Poor kid who was the one driving
the truck we come to We start going down a
hill through a campsite.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Breaks go out. He literally is.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Driving a truck with four girls in it with him,
and the brakes go out. He hits the back of
Andy's car. Andy pulls forward. He tries to go over
on the side of the dirt embankment. He instead he
drives up onto the dirt embankment, flips the car.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Me and Holly, my best friend Holly Gardner was with me.
We go flying out of the back of the truck
and mid air, I remember very clearly thinking when I
hit the ground, my skirt's gonna fly up over onto
my back and my underwear will be showing. So I
have to make sure the second I hit the ground,
I have to stand up. And I literally hit and
stood up immediately. I think that saved you, Yes, for sure.

(42:09):
Well Holly fell too, but she neither of My mom
was a nurse. She woke us up five times that
night to check our eyes for concussion eyes.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I just imagine a concussion, and maybe I've had one
and I just don't remember it, but I could the
wobbly brain sin like that is just nothing feels right
and you don't even understand that you have a concussion.
I don't think, how did you get a concussion? Maybe
I didn't. Are you totally full of shit right now?

(42:38):
Maybe i'd had a concussion and that's why I don't
remember it. Oh, I think I think I was in
a car accident when I was a kid and had one. Yeah,
hit your head. Yeah, But I don't know what I
was with the girl once who had one, because she
got clunked in the head with the softball and she
just started crying. We were like hanging out at night
and she starts crying and haas to go to the hospital. Anyways,

(42:58):
it looks terrible, it seems. But can you imagine having
having dozens over a ten year span? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, And that just sidebar totally is like points makes
me want to point to OJ right now because that's
that thing of like, yes.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
In the beginning, he was the American hero.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
But when you have a full career where that happens
to you every day practice and in games, you know,
fifty times a week or whatever, your brain cannot, you
don't remain the person that you started us.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
It's still man interesting thing recently that hockey players, like
in the seventies they put in the or maybe even
like the eighties or nine, like, at some point they
were like, helmets have to be used, yes, but if
you've been playing before that, it was your choice if
you wanted to help wear a helmet. So everyone from
that on then on had to wear a helmet if
you got hired, but you might've been just too far

(43:50):
gone where it's like, fuck it, you don't have to
if you if you like, if you've owned a motorcycle
before nineteen, you know you don't have to wear a helmet.
It's like that was a lot.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Really love hockey players so much because hockey is so
graceful and beautiful and yet insanely violent and male, which
I so violent, very sexy.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
But I don't like fights. They scare me. What Georgia, Really,
that's the stuff of life. I hate fight two guys
punching each other, I hate it. It makes me so,
especially I think it's hilarious in ice. In ice skating,
an ice skating, I fight.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
The same amount nobody Michelle Kwan just punching somebody in
the face.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
There's something about in in hockey that because they're so
bulked up and have so much patting on that the
punches and the whole fight is slow mo. Yes, and
so you can see their face and I'm I was like,
is he gonna cry? I just stresses me. I don't
like it. I bet they'd never cry.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
I bet you know when you you know, when you're
really angry and and you're like trying not to cry.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yes, I always wonder if they're feeling that. It is
just funny that there.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
It's that that is a sport where fighting is completely allowed,
except and the refs pretend they're going to do something
and they just let them fight it out totally.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
It's very violent. Yeah, So, and one would think with
wrestling it being like almost like an acrobatic feat it's
not like it's not you're not really hurting the person
right that you wouldn't get hurt then. But I mean,
there's so many accidents that happen, and so many bad
wrestlers that that don't know how, that don't know how

(45:27):
to interact with other wrestlers when they're fighting.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
They also do that stuff. I remember seeing that documentary.
I just saw part of it about Mankind. Oh, he's
amazing when he fell for the fucking shain length sense.
But there was a part where he just gets clocked
in the head with a folding chair. Yeah, and it's
a real folding chair. It's not They don't use like,
they don't mock anything.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
They'll pick up a real metal, fucking high school auditorium
folding chair and hit each other in the head with them.
They don't do that anymore. You're not allowed to hit
in the head.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Anymore because the Mankind rule. Probably, I think because of
the crispinoa really Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Because they realized how bad it is. Yeah. I think
he did a lot to make that and not allowed anymore.
So yeah, so let's see. Wait, so the repeat concussions
can lead to dementia, which can contribute to severe behavioral problems.

(46:24):
Blah blah. Wait, there's one other part of Yeah, sorry,
he took us down, and we've talked about it. Also.
Eighty five year old Alzheimer's patient lifetime chronic concussions, had trauma.
I I kind of didn't even know what he was doing. Maybe.
I think it's just such a severe personality change, Like like,

(46:48):
you know, you and I when we're eighty five are
gonna act in similar ways that we do now. We're
not gonna kill people. We're not gonna like you promise,
I'll try my best to live to be eighty five.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, let's get that done first, and then and at
that point we might just start killing people because no
one would suspect us.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
I mean you might as well, right, yeah. So yeah,
but he just was a different a different person, looked
different emotions and different moods than the person he was
raised to be and was for years and years. Probably
so sad. It's so sad. So Chris bin Wah, that's
my favorite murder this week. That's a good one. Thank you.

(47:29):
What's your favorite murder? Karen Georgia my favorite murder? Uh is?

Speaker 2 (47:36):
I got the idea from my friend Carol Craft, who
is listens hi. She and my sister have worked together,
did work together at Loose Sutton Grammar School in Nevado,
California for years. She was the school secretary She's one
of the funniest people on the planet. Carroll Craft is
the greatest, and she my sister. When she told my

(47:57):
sister she's listening to the podcast, my sister said, what's
your hometown murder? And Carol immediately said, duh, it's Jennifer Moore.
And then I remembered, and Laura remembered. And the reason
I so I started looking it up because I was like, oh,
is that that thing? And the memory, the kind of

(48:18):
like central memory I have around it is my mother. Okay,
So my hometown is Pedaloma, which is the first city
in Snoma County, and Nevada is the last city in
Marin County, and they are right against each other. Okay, So,
like my high school, a bunch of people who lived
in Nevado drove up to Peduloma to go to my
high school.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
There wasn't a Catholic high school in Nevado. Catholic high school, yeah,
a really small one. So I had a ton of
friends that lived in Nevado. They're kind of, you know,
they're kind of like those two cities. You're you're going
back and forth a lot up there, and Nevada is
kind of like a bedroom community for people who work
in San Francisco commuters and stuff, because it's really nice

(49:00):
and close to the city but still outside enough so
that you are in a nice kind of country suburb.
And it's basically it's tons of tracked homes and beautiful
little like shopping areas and oak trees and rolling fields
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
It's a really lovely little city. Sounds really charming. It
is charming.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
So my mom used to work at the Kaiser in
San Rafel, which is the next big city down below Nevado.
And so when the one oh one got backed up,
which it always did because it narrowed between Nevado and Pedaluma,
so all of the traffic would just get all condensed,
what everyone would do was get off the freeway and
take the back roads. And so you go down to

(49:37):
Vada Boulevard, and Nevada Boulevard takes you out to like
Stony Point Road, which is where the cheese factory is,
and like that's where you take relatives that are visiting,
and it's basically a cheese factory that's way out in
the country next to a lake.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I used to have to drive by this whole area
when I went to court reporting school in like not
San Jose, but like core reporting school. You never told
me once a court reporting I never will finished. Excuse me,
that's episode one information. God damn it. Yeah, I worked
at I went to court reporting school and do you

(50:12):
do that machine, Georgia? Because I worked at a corre
reporting office and these women made like so much money,
and it was fascinating to just sit in depositions, which
is like life. I would just sit there and read
depositions all day. That's amazing. Probably illegal.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
So I decided to go to court reporting school. But
it's I'm jealous, I'm angry. I have all these feelings
running through me right now.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Go ahead, No, we'll talk later. So my mom was
driving home on the we called the background. So basically
just it's like you're cutting around through the country to
get up to Peddle out of Nevada, and on the
way out of Nevado there's Indian Valley golf Course, there's
Stafford Lake, and then you know on so it gets

(50:58):
very country, very quick right outside the city.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
So my mom was driving home one night and it
was dusk and she saw cops on the side of
the road and she saw them pulling garbage bags out
of a ditch. And when she got home she saw
in the news.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
And I'm almost positive we were there with her because
I can remember. But I do this all the time.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
I can write memories very easily. Sure, I feel like
I remember my mom having a freak out because she
saw in the news they had finally discovered the body
of the little girl who had gone missing four days earlier,
and that was this girl, Jennifer Moore. So my mom
actually saw them find the body, which is wow. When
my sister reminded me of it in this text, I

(51:43):
was like, this is epic. I couldn't be more provent.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Where that your brain can just lose these mo like
we talk about this every week, murder, and I never
thought about it lost.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Yeah, it's just kind of not it's so filed so
far back.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
So essentially this is what happened.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Jennifer Moore was thirteen years old and on Thursday, April thirteenth,
nineteen eighty nine, she called her mom at work crying
because she had gotten three c's on her report card.
So her mom said, go walk down and buy some
ice cream. So and this is another thing where didn't
I didn't look into it, but it pretty much sounded
like she was being raised by a single mother and

(52:20):
she was latchkeying, just like we all did. So she
goes to walk down to the Basking Robins on a
Vauda Boulevard, which as I was reading this is like
I knew exactly where all of this was as I
was reading it. And so when the mom comes home
from work that night, Jennifer's not there, and she knows
from the last time she talked to her, when she

(52:41):
told her to go get ice cream, it was way, way,
way too long for her not to be there. She
knew she wasn't a runway I read in this article.
Interestingly enough, the age twelve to fourteen are prime runaway years,
and so anytime someone is that age and they called
to report the missing, the cops that had the habit
of assuming this is what it is, because that's usually

(53:05):
or it's commonly the case. But of course the mother
assured them this is very wrong. She didn't run away.
All of her stuff is in a room, her purse
is in a room, like all she did was take
the money for the ice cream.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
I was a runover. Did you ever run away?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
No, I think I when I was like five, because
I was going to share my mom and I basically
took a suitcase out to the road and then came
back inside immediately.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, packed a suitcase put under the bed. I did
stay out during my when I was like thirteen, my
drug years, stay out all like overnight. And they straight
up called the cops and yeah, I was I was
a runaway. Well they should have though. Yeah, that's good, though,
I know I feel so bad about that.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Yeah, you didn't know you were on drugs? Was Yeah.
So the cops check her school records. They see that
she's had perfect attendance and that she's you know, that's
not the person that we're talking about. So so they
they start.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Looking into it.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Two days pass and they start handing out the have
you seen me flyers, which of course, again seems a
little late for me.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
I don't like it, but.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
I think that this is nineteen eighty nine, so back
then they were like, we just want to see probably, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Is the idea.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
So on day three, a person driving down Navada Boulevard
sees garbage bags in a ditch on the side of
the road. Goes and looks in them and finds Jennifer's
nude body. So that poor person who found them, do
you think he knew what was going on.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Like what was looking for?

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Well he there's a very good chance he saw in
the news because this was all over the news, this
little girl's face. Have you seen me? This girl's missing?
So it did hit the news like the next night. Okay,
so maybe that flyer thing was just the cops like
on the streets doing it. Because I remember that. Well

(55:00):
I shouldn't say that because I don't know the exact chronology,
but she.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Remember like the big like is it the small enough
town where it's like this is what everyone's talking about
one hundred percent because this doesn't happen on.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
This is this This is a town just like Pedloma,
where people did not lock their doors, right. And when
you see this picture, it's such a nineteen eighty nine picture.
She's got braces, she's got these bangs, she's got the
big hoop earing, so she's so cute and she just
looks like a girl from your junior high.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Kill me. These sweet kids. Yeah, I always when I
see them, I always say I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
I know well I know, so, yeah, this poor motorist.
That is my theory. I should say, I think that
that person saw that a girl was missing on the news,
and then when they saw the garbage bags, pulled over
and checked and then their worst nightmare was confirmed. So

(55:56):
everyone's in the in the in between time. Of course,
no one left her, didn't leave the house, no one,
There were no latchkey kids. Once it was announced that
she was missing. So the cops look at the plastic
bags and inside I should say a plastic bag. I
think it's just the one big garbage bag. At the bottom,

(56:17):
there were a Sunday school like leaflets, and one of
the policemen recognized it as that my kids use those
at their Sunday school. So this is like probably a
local church Sunday school leaflet. So they decide to start
checking all the churches nearby, and they they map out
from her house to the ice cream parlor what churches

(56:40):
are in between.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
And so they go to Bethel.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Baptist Church on the Vaude Boulevard, and they noticed when
the cops show up there, they noticed there's four big
garbage cans outside. Two of them have garbage liners, garbage,
garbage bags in side of them, and two don't, so
they go over and check.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
It's the same type of garbage so this probably had
happened in the last day. Yes, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
They immediately are like, okay, this is you know, like
this is can't be a coincidence or like would be
a very the probability of that being at coincidence.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
I love when puzzle pieces fit together.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
And that they're you know, this might be a little
makeup work. But everything I read in this it was
like the cops were like eagle eyed, and I think
that is that thing of a tiny town where it's
everybody's daughter totally. So so they see that they match.
They see that it's a match of the same type
of garbage bag, and they they go and immediately get bloodhounds,

(57:44):
and they have the bloodhounds, they have them sent on
Jennifer's clothing, and then the bloodhounds take them directly back
to the Jennifer's house, so they know that this is
the this is where she ended up, this is the church.
So she basically took a short cut from her house
through a creek area that was in the back of

(58:07):
the church and then up through the church. So they
go into the church to look for evidence, and they
talked to the pastor there, who shows them something weird
that he had noticed. There was a coffee cup that
had been like the coffee had been spilled in the library,
but no one had picked the coffee cup back up
off the floor, so it was just this coffee stain.

(58:28):
And it was weird to him because beverages were not
allowed in the in the church library. So you know,
it's weird enough that someone made that spill, but then
they didn't even clean up half of it, basically, So
the crime lab comes, pulls up the carpet, tests it.
There's blood and bleach, so in the same spot. Yeah,
so he spilled the coffee over it. So if you

(58:49):
fight it, yes, to be there was a big blood stain.
But so he was like, nope, but it's a coffee stain.
Here's a coffee cop you know, don't worry about this coffee.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
So they get onto that immediately, and then when tech
just searched the rest of the church, they find a
brown bomber jacket at the bottom of their clothing donation bin,
and it was the jacket the Jennifer war when she
left the house to go.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Get ice cream.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Who So now they know and they checked the pockets
she had. The rubber bands for her braces were in
the pocket, so they know it was hers. So now
they know this is the we've got a location. So
the pastor remembers that he'd gotten to work early Friday
morning she had disappeared Thursday, and when he got there,
the door was not only unlocked, it was a jar.

(59:37):
So basically there were three people on Thursday night that
were at the church that could have been involved. One
was the janitor, one was the youth pastor, and one
was the teenager that was helping the youth pastor with gardening.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Can I guess, yes, the youth Hell, yeah, it's the
youth pastor. Oh wait, no, I was guessing the kid. Shit,
damn it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
You know, it's really funny that you just said that,
and maybe this is the way it's going. I read
a bunch of articles about this, but it's such a
small town and it was so long ago. I could
only get these little short ones from the La Times
and then and of course Wikipedia. But then I found
the transcript for a TV show called I Detective.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Have you ever seen that show? So it's I don't
think it's on anymore. It was on. It was on
like Court TV. It's that old yea.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
But basically they would lay out a true crime story
and then they would they would tell you the evidence
that the cops found and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Then go, is it a the youth be remember that?
And you would make a guest.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Then they would tell you what the right answer is
and why. So you were kind of basically learning how
cops do their procedural shit as you watch.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
That sounds fucking awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
So I stumble upon a transcript for the episode about
the Jennifer Moore murder.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Ely shit. So so you just you just intuited something.
I think you should be very proud of yourself. But
at the s time time I thought that the youth
pastor and the janitor were too obvious. I just cheered
because it was the youth pastor. There's always going to
be victims in this show.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
So it turns out that the kid that was helping
the youth pastor garden had a record and was a
bad kid, but his grandma had come and picked him
up at six thirty that night, and so he had
a an alibi. And then the janitor wasn't at home
when they went to go question him, so he was
really high up on the list. And then they go

(01:01:36):
visit the youth pastor and he's a twenty nine year
old ex marine named Scott Williams. He owns a gas
station nearby.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
He's a Sunday school teacher whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
He works at the church all the time, so he
every he's well liked by the community. All the stuff
we always here. So they go talk to him and
he admits that he was the last person to leave
on Thursday night. Andy can't account for his whereabouts that night.
He's kind of saying, there was a meeting at the
gas station. Oh, but I did miss it because I was,

(01:02:11):
uh doing you know, the gardening or whatever. And he's
real evasive, so they're they're like, we don't like this guy.
And then he has not yeah exactly, and then he
suggests that he take a polygraph, so they were like, oh, well,
that's a good way to dissuade anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
You know, you're insisting you're innocent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Uh. Well, he fails the polygraph test, and at the
end of it, the polygraph examiner, who I believe was
from the FBI because they brought the FBI in really early.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I'm so smart, it's so so I wish more. I
wish more of that would have happened. Yeah, in a
lot of cases, I know, just get just get the
big boys in. It's not an insult. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
So they bring so at the end of the polygraph,
the examiner says, you killed Jennifer Moore, and he cracks
and cops to the whole thing holy shit, which I
think is so brilliant because usually in movies and stuff,
the polygraph exam is just all dry and like did
you did you not?

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
And making little checks and doesn't care. He was like,
looking at this evidence, here's the conclusion.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
And basically played a poker game of like, wow, you
did it, and then he was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Just like, you're right, I did it. I just think
that's so interesting because had he ever killed anyone or
any hair record, no, no prior, no prior. That's so
interesting to me because I feel like the people who
crack and break down are almost like the people who
insist and just fucking lie about it are more sociopathic
to me than the people who like feel feel the remorse,

(01:03:36):
and so they break down and cry because they can't
even fucking deal with it themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Right, And usually I would say I would I would
wager that those people are the ones.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
It's the one off kind of passion or the moment or.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
The you know whatever it is opportunity exactly, and that's
what this was, because, uh, he shows them the rope
burn on his hand where he strangled her with a
piece of rope. So he's just like he said, the
quote is I murdered her, I raped her, I strangled her,
and I bludgeoned her. So then they know they know

(01:04:09):
they have him. It's not just like coincidental or that
he's been manipulated. He is very specific and basically totally
barfed it out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
What a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
So then the cops go to his house and they
start talking to his wife, who of course is freaking out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
The wife, the wife always oh honey.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
And then she tells the cops that they had recently
gotten into a fight because of the huge bills he
was racking up on those nine seven six numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
From the eighties.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Do you remember, is that like sex talk numbers that
were now they're illegal, illegal, They're like, there's all kinds
of sec regulations, so they're not like it used to be.
There's nine seven to six commercials. Second, it was past
ten o'clock at night. That's all TV was. Yeah, And
when they look into it, he had huge bills and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
His were for a child porn where is it? Phone sex?
Was there? Oh? I mean he found I don't know
I did. That's all the lines set. That seems like
a fucking FBI set up right there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
I mean, yeah, I mean I don't think this needs
to be said, but I bet they weren't real children.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Sorry, I okay, but I do want to clarify these
would be actresses, yeah, phone actress anyway. Uh So, basically
he tells the story. He's working outside of the church
and Jennifer is cutting through from the creek through the
parking lot and he sees her and he gets this

(01:05:37):
ideent and he head in his head and so that
he's going to like seduce her.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
So he says, hey, do you want to coke?

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Come in, it's hot outside or whatever, and lures her
into the library, makes a move on her. She freaks out,
tries to run, He grabs her, rapes her, and as
he said, strangles her and hits her.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
In the head. All in the church library.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Oh honey, church, let's just remember these things that this
is when people have any kind of religious thing that
there does sometimes let's be suspicious of that even on
the outset. Yeah, that a lot of people use religion
to hide behind.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Yeah, humans are humans, and just because you're of a
specific group of humans doesn't mean that they're you're exempts
from being a terrible person. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Anyone can go to that place on Sunday and sit
there in silence and act.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Anyone can, yeah and believe that they're well, they're right
and they're a good person, not like you even are
like I'm hiding this secret, I'm a bad person. You're
just like, oh, I'm exempted from this because because God, Yeah,
and the Bible.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
So he got first agree, murdered, got a life sentence,
no possibility of parole.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Thank god.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Every ounce of this research, I was like, yay, cops,
yay judge.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
It rarely happens, it gets we can celebrate it, and
that's it. That's the Jennifer More murder of Nevado kat
Is that is exhausting and sad and horrible. Yeah, do
they s latchkey kids? Still a thing? I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Well, I was starting with my sister and I told
her this is the story that I'm doing, and she goes, yeah,
and that's why we never let kids go anywhere ever
by themselves ever.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Like my our friend Adrian has a daughter's eighteen, and
she was going to the dentist to get but she
was going to be sedated, Oh my goodness. And Adrian
called my sister and goes, can you go with her? Yeah,
she's going to be sedated.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
I've heard that about dentist's office though, Like there was,
you know, one who would insist that the kid came
alone back there and the mom was like, well, go
fuck yourself, and wouldn't take the kid to the dentist.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Yeah, because again, doctor's priest, whatever it is, we.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Don't know, we don't know. It doesn't mean.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Automatically that that's a good, moral, upstanding person.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Well, I'm trying to think if I had like a
twelve year old son or daughter, would I be comfortable
with them going home from school after school and being alone?
And like, yeah, kind of would you be comfortable with them? Yeah?
Not these days? Yeah, I mean not with I'm surprised.
I I'm saying that and being so naive, which I

(01:08:16):
don't know if it is, but twelve of us is
pretty I guess once I see a twelve year old,
they're like, oh, no, never mind. But I mean it's
weird because we did it from when we were like eight.
Oh totally.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
I think it's just that cultural thing where like when
everyone does it, it's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Yeah, And also when you have siblings, it's better because
you have other people around. When it's anently child, it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Little Yeah, if you have people to escape the house
with when murder comes in the front door.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Or just someone, you guys have to be responsible for
each other, so you're just a little more careful and
a little more bitter, like my sister was all of
our lives. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I actually had to constantly take me to the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Just so angry. For twenty years, my sister has had
to pick my napkin up off the floor when I
threw it on the ground when I was in a
high chair. She hates me to this day, like you're
a mcghar dance like a monk, be go pick that up.
Hates me, Thanks, Mom and Dad. It's the thing. It's
it sucks to be the older sister, that's for sure,
that's true. Being the baby is the best. Yeah, well

(01:09:15):
that was Yeah, well that's what we do. If you
don't like it, we understand. Yeah, my favorite murder shirts
dot Com. We're like, give us money now that we've
ruined your day, now that you'll have night here.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I think the psychology of that actually holds up, though,
thank you for ruining my day. At least we're doing something.
At least it's something. It makes me feel alive.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
I feel like there's little bits and pieces of this
podcast that make that'll either make people safer, more aware,
less great leave. Yeah, and maybe some we're like grateful. Yeah,
maybe somewhere change something for the for good, for the good.
Maybe someone will be on a jury someday and be like, oh,

(01:10:08):
you can't let this guy totally did it and he
did do it. Maybe we'll win a Peabody War. So
the next thing I was gonna say, maybe we'll be
crown Queen Victoria Queen Vicky. I mean, you know, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
It's a yeah, finally I'm Queen Vicky because of a podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
When do we get to be Queen Vicky for once?
And on a lot. It's always those British people.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
I got to be the queen, why can't I?

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
No, we are, We're Queen of fucking well. We're gonna
put out a send us your hometown murders. Please don't
give up. Don't give up my favorite murder at Gmail.
We're about to record a mini episode with a few
of those, so that's why you should tell us.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
We're also just be patient because we're getting them from
every direction. We get them on the Twitter, which is
my fave murder. I'm sorry at my favor murder, and uh, there's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Tons and people. We love it. People post them on
the Facebook page. It's great. Here's the thing. More clever
and funny they are and well written, the more likely
we'll read.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Them, because the less work for us. Yeah yeah, we
read them all create that content.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Yeah yeah. Thank you guys for listening, and thank you
again for reviewing and subscribing and getting us fucking up
on that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Those charts are incredible, it's crazy. Thank you so much
for your support. We honestly are very touched and slightly
freaked out totally.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
I feel like we're beating a bunch of people at
their own game and it's freaking me out. I'm gonna
say it. Male podcasters, Male Comedia podcasters. Click clicklick click.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
Click, goodbye bye, o ah bye you guys it oh dudes,
bye dudes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
Come on, everyone loves that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Well, it's just fun to represent the ladies. It is whatever.
You know what, stay sexy, tell get murdered easy,