44 - Live from the Chicago Podcast Festival

Karen and Georgia are live at the Chicago Podcast Festival talking about the Fort Worth Three kidnapping and Chicago’s very own John Wayne Gacy.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Some murdering knows.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Ah, you're so I can't fucking see you, but you're pretty.
I don't have a huge speech for this one because
we're going to keep it pretty simple. When we decided
we were going to do the Chicago Podcast Festival, this was.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
A show that was very high on our lists. We asked.
They said, yes, please, welcome to the stage. Georgia, Hardstar,
Karen Kill, Gareth and my Bern. Come on, come on,
damn it, you are so drunk. Hi, I am. Are

(00:54):
you a little bit Hi? Chicago? Oh okay, see you later.
It's just gonna be me. A one woman showed tonight.
Oh this is crazy. Hi, guys, we're very happy to

(01:18):
be here. Here we are anyone not know whose voice
was who? And it's freaking out right now because we
thought it was the other. I'm the one who says
fuck a lot. I'm the one that says, look, you know,
here's the thing. I didn't know I did that until
you told me. Now I want to think about it

(01:42):
all the time. This is fucking not so yeah, exciting,
very exciting. The cool thing is that at some point
I'm going to jump into this orchestra pit. It's true
that's what we decided beforehand. We we dropped.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
We drew Straws, We drew Straws. Karen, I was like,
I'm gonna do the pit jump and there's no orchestra.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
She's just gonna. I don't get there's no bottom, there's
no bottom. I was just push you. Can I do
a model walk to show off my dress? And I
got this dress today at Chicago Michigan Avenue nord Strums.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
I thought I was gonna say, can I do a monologue?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Can I could I do one traumatic and one comedic monologue,
a short dance? I hold this you guys.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
I just wish Karen wasn't so shy.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Pockets are the greatest. People love pockets, right, It's not
just me. And I said that.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
I texted you that my outfit was I was gonna
cause play Nancy Saint Stacy.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yes, that's right. Did you did you recognize Nancy Saint
step But I was gonna wear like eighties heels and
I can take it, take a walk, it'll feel good. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
It started off sad and it ended then yes, should
we uh sit and talk? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Because this is weird, because this is so weird. All right? Well,
let's not should we not with the yeah, we shouldn't
use these? Yeah, yeah, except you're gonna although yeah, no,
we show you're right, you're right. Let's do this when
we tell the stories, we will. It's just kind of
slimming when you have it in front of you. Five

(03:46):
sex draws the eyeword. Why didn't we ask for a couch?
I need kick pants? What the fuck is this a
small top stool?

Speaker 3 (04:03):
I said, give her the one that's wobbling. She looks,
so it'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
I'm fine.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Do you want to stay on the ground, y'all sit
cross legged on the ground. I don't know what we're
gonna What were other people doing up here?

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Perching like a lady? Not interested? Let's see, do you
have any We should do some business, right, like some
that's right. No more shouting out or I'll have to
come out there.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
The corrections corner is that our family isn't the thing
out here.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Corrections corner is our our drunk families up in a
box somewhere judging usby. Yeah, clap for the family, My mommy,
If you have things caring, you're gonna fuck it. Here's
my crustions corner. It's fine, it'll be funny when I fall.

(05:06):
It always my corrections corner, and this one is one
of my favorites of all time. Last week we were
talking about I think we were probably reading a hometown
and someone mentioned I read the name Vincent Lee and
they were saying like, oh, so if that's a fucked
up murder, and I was like, oh, I got to
look that up, like, I don't know who that is.
I know had done it so many so many people

(05:29):
wanted to let me know how I did know what
it was because I'd actually reported on it myself on
my own podcast. Yeah, who would have fucking bunk? I mean,
I don't remember their name, no whatever, I remember the MASHETI.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
We don't remember killers, do we remember?

Speaker 1 (05:49):
We remember feeling things and qualities. Also, I would like
to say people that catch up, people that are behind
a little bit. Yeah, I fucking now know that Manitoba
is not a city, all right. I know now you
don't have to stop fucking telling mere she gets it.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's funny the like corrections we get where we're like,
yeah we know.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I've known that for like two weeks.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
We're bitch, you guys know that we're total bitches, right,
like like Danna beg Danny, that was my mom.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
I love you. She's a very tall woman. Oh.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Also, Stephen ray Morris could not be here tonight, Stevie
our audio engineer.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
But his sister is here. His sister even better, sister,
Ray Morris, Stephanie Ray Morris.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
And she has no she's never listened to the podcast
and doesn't know that. He's like Stephen, and I want
us all to like give her.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
She thinks it's let her know. I believe I think
she if she thinks this is a Christian podcast, right,
so this is gonna be fun.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah. And Elvis, his mom is here. I want that
to happen like an old cat would come walking.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Down half an ear bitten. I just don't know what
to do. I want to have a chair, should go
a chair chair? No, I'm gonna beat this. I'm gonna
beat this stool. Don't even don't bring it over, don't

(07:34):
do it.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well, we're so this is Oh so this is my
favorite murder podcast.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
In case someone didn't anyone know that. Thank you for
screaming so much. That's Karen and that's Georgia. Yeah, I
like that. We're doing it now as if we do
that at the top of every show. We honestly treat
every show like we've never done podcasting before, like it's
like it surprises us every single week.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
We should introduce this. Yeah, oh if someone just fucking
stumbled upon this, like they're changing the radio stations.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
And the Yeah, exactly, it's nineteen sixty one. These girls
are cursing. Look at that's bab uh. Do you have
any questions or shout outs or anything you need to
talk about?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
No, I'm petrified right now. Oh okay, who this is great?

Speaker 1 (08:19):
No?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Uh no, I mean path man, everything's the best right now,
right right now.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, it was the.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Last time we did uh oh yeah, okay, what are
you talking about the last episode we did?

Speaker 1 (08:31):
No, I don't remember at all. Was it Vincent Lee?
I don't know. Well, here we are nice to face.
It's like two people who didn't do their book report,
who are like, anyway, what I love about books is
the paper inside.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
The problem is you're not going to know all the
like three hours of shit that's edited out of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, that's not true. We just let everything go in. Clearly,
we let it all go in. Let it go in
should be talking about murder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You guys like it's pretty who's a murdering now? Like
for real?

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I mean that's called pandering. Now we're pandering.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
I don't think it's our thing, though, I'm sitting on
it with my butt.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Are you go go first versus Tim? Also, I'm going
my hands in my pockets and pull my microphone over here?
Did you mind putting your hands in your pocket? Karen?

Speaker 3 (09:33):
As I tell you, I swear I was gonna belch,
and it's about to happen.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
She's going to do some Robert Durst belches for us.
Just did you was that? Really? Was that sounded like
a fucking horse? I swear to god, I thought you
were like doing a joke that was unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
I had a soda pop. If they want to pay us,
I'll just say which.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
One it is.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
But oh not shit, girl, Otherwise we don't do branding. Otherwise,
doctor Pepper. Okay, okay, ready, yes, are you ready?

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah? No, I'm just now that's too much pressure, all right? Okay?

Speaker 3 (10:22):
So December twenty third, Super and Air Christmas in nineteen
seventy four a great.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Year for collars and cords. There you go. Bring us back,
Karen to a time nineteen seventy four where the air
was filled with lead pollution and everybody had a mustache,
even girls.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, you're you're supposed to beat your children. Yes, you
were required.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
You had to sign a paper when you left the
hospital with the baby that said I promised to hit
this child in the face every day. Yeah, and I'll
let anyone hit them too. Yeah, it's true. People on
the street, they probably deserve it.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
So okay, So three ladies, Renee Wilson she's fourteen, Rachel Trelika,
who's seventeen, and Julie Ane Mosley, who's nine, go on
a shopping trip for Christmas presents.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Can't be good? Nope, No, they're a fine.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Let's talk about I'll talk about Ted Bundy anyway.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I've lad the I'm paler.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
So these three girls, they go to a upscale mall,
the Seminary South shopping Center. This girl knows it, I care.
Someone fucking whispering in Fort Worth, Texas. Oh, oh m
you been. I just thought I should make a noise.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Uh, they're supposed to be home by four pm.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Guess what Karen didn't show up. They didn't show up.
I didn't show up.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
So Renee and Rachel, the older girl, were old friends.
Renee asked Rachel to come with her shopping, and then
Renee's boyfriend was gonna come, but he went to a
friend's house. So his little sister, Julie begs to come.
So they bring their her boyfriend's little sister along, so
it's the three of them. They get to the mall,
she Rachel parks her car at the top of the

(12:20):
fucking car park osmobile and they go shopping.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
People see them because and this needs to be our
new shirt.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
She's wearing a shirt that says sweet honesty.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
What that's nineteen seventy four for you? What the like fuck?
What stoner put that thing together? Sweet? And you know
it was like crazy cursive with the little why on
the honesty and then like three loops litter like all
around just on the tits.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, no bra, no bra, no bra didn't have to
seventies tits like that's a thing. Yeah, for sure, they
were real low. So a ton of people see them
at the mall. People because people see her shirt.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Whatever the fuck? And then that evening families get worried
as they do.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
They go out looking for the girl and they find
her car where she parked it on the roof of
the small area, and in the car the car is
locked and inside of the presence. So at some point
they went to the car, put the presence in there,
locked the car and then what right, Yes, I don't know,
you have to tell me. So they're freaking out. The

(13:36):
next day a letter comes in the mail and it
goes to Rachel's husband's house. Now Rachel, who was seventeen
and married?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
What yeah? Wait, is that sweet honesty?

Speaker 3 (13:47):
That's the other one. Even a fourteen year old is
wearing a sweet honesty.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Shot. Don't let your babies grow up to be sweet
honesty for real? Uh, she's married, okay to this dude.
This dude, her husband was dating her older sister beforehand.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Look it happens, Yes, guilty, they break up these her
little sister and her boyfriend get married, and then the
sister's living.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
With them at the time. What no, Like, we all
know where this is? Like we know? Wait? Is are
you just talking out an episode of Game of Thrones
and saying saying it happened in Fort Worth? Never seen it? No,
this is Dallas. I'm talking about Dallas.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Uh yeah, right, okay, But no letter comes in the mail.
Why is he checking his fucking mail the day after
his wife gets fucking kidnapped.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
You think he should have avoided that mailbox. I mean,
why are you checking it? He loves mail. It's the
only thing that made him feel better. Fucking catalogs and
postcards bare enough.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Well, he goes to his mailbox and he finds a
letter from her, supposedly from Rachel, says.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
I know I'm gonna catch it, which is like the
cutest phrase I've ever heard in my life, Like catch
some shit. I know I'm gonna catch it. Say no,
I'm want to catch it. I'm gonna I'm gonna catch it.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
But we just had to get away. We're going to Houston.
See you in about a week. The cars in the
series Upper Lot Love Rachel m I write, I know,
so like he gets that letter. Her name is kind
of misspelled. His name is written, seriously, that's up.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Her first name is.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Miss spelled, Yeah, a little bit misspelled.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Like no it hap. I look, I've done that so
many times. It's like, ka, I want to make fun
of that.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
But recently, my my manager emailed me, was like, hey,
you're your name's spelled wrong and you're real, and I
was like, what are you talking about.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
I looked at it and it said g e O
R I g A. Oh. I fucking spelled my own
goddamn name wrong. I was like, Giorga Jola. I got it.
It's about like three years and I didn't notice it.
So fair enough. Once you change it, you're going to
get so many jobs.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
People have been like, I want to hire her for
the million dollar thing. I can't find her or damn
spelled wrong. No, there goes a million dollars.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Oh, it does happen. This crazy happens. Let's be fair.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Uh uh Okay, So her husband was married to the Bogle, right,
the family thinks that the letter, they're like, that's not
her handwriting.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
And she spelled her.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
Fucking name right in in addition to back that up,
so uh they So the stamp had been stamped, you know,
like cleared at the thing at the post off, I
think that morning. So someone sent that thing the night
before or on the twenty fourth of when it shut up,

(16:56):
which I'm like, if you're just if you just kidnapped
three people randomly you're not gonna bother to let the
family know.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
No, you kidnap and you get straight to that correspondence. Yeah,
like that's that's to throw people off.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, that's not like a serial killer who's like grabbing
three people and doesn't give a shit.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Right, No, that's like an anal retentive serial killer.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
That's like a leave us alone for a minute, right,
serial killer.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
You mean, can I have some privacy? Privacy? Well, I
to sit at my secretary's desk and just ride out
with a feather pen, like right after I kidnap them, though,
you know what I mean. It's weird, I get it
all right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Uh so people saw them that day because clearly she
had a sweet honesty shirt on, and like, how you're
gonna miss that one?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Fourteen year old? And is like that sounds like a
stripper name. Nothing, I'm not saying there's anything on strippers.
It's just a name, just a name. That's it's quite,
it's sweet.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
And so a woman, a woman tells a store clerk
that she saw some men hustle the girls into a
pickup truck, but police never located that witness. Another says
that the girls had been spotted in a security patrol car.

(18:15):
So in nineteen eighty one, which was what let's do
math was just like so many years later.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Six sick lest One is seven years later, seven seven
years later.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
A man, a man randomly comes around and he's like, hey,
I saw a girl. I saw I saw a man
forcing them into a van that day, You fucking dick, Like.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
What the were you? Where were you?

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
In eighty one, I just.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Like popped into my head that these fucking girls were
being forced into a van.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
He had so much stuff on his mind, Christmas, tons
of latering back then. But the guy in the van
told him.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
He goes, hey, it's a family dispute, don't worry about it.
And that's why he never told it till he was
till eighty one. Yeah, I mean, like, can you eat?
I can't even well.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Because you know, it was like back then, if your
family was fighting about something, you could throw them in
a van forcibly at the mall. True it was done.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
How many people out here have like seen that and
just never told anyone about it.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
And that's a family.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Just be it, okay, your family's yeah, psychopaths anything.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I will call the police just if I see a van.
I don't give a fuck. I don't care. Be like
it's clearly a bread truck. I don't care. Call nine one.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Karen does citizens arrests all over to all the time.
I won't even believe her now, her brother says. Rachel's
brother says that there's been sightings all over the fort
With area. You know, it's one of those like they
were white slaves. Like people keep saying that some of
the sightings.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
What someone doesn't like that, it doesn't matter. Oh shit,
someone's mad about something.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
We said, uh okay, and they hired a private detective
to look for it.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
He can admitted suicide in nineteen seventy eight. When you're
fucking private detective commits suicide, Like come on, You're like, no,
we're the ones that are mourning.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, And he was like he had a willis like
destroy my records when I die, they destroy the records.
Commit suicide, then fucking destroyed records.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
They're like, you know what, we're just going to sweep
all this under the rug. We think that's the way
we're going to handle all you know what we're gonna do.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
We're gonna be the of the eighties. Okay, So these
fucking chicks are never found. So wait, sorry, now we're
in the eighties, aren't that far ahead? No, seventy nine,
that happened. I just I said, the eighties is like
a thing.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Sorry, sorry, it just seems I'm not questioning you. You
see you are. It's our first fight here in Chicago.
It's the place to do it. Okay, So they were
never found.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Spoiler alert, I'm sorry that sucks, blows, but there's two
suspects that I find very interesting.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
So Mike Bardell in Ben read that. Read that. Hold on,
let me get my readers, Mike de bardell e Ben.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
What I say really is what it says. That wasn't
just you kind of a copy and passed.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
No, no, no, that was a copy and Passee.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
So this dude gets arrested for passing counterfoot bills and
then the cops found evidence of sex crimes, including him
taking photos of him raping and murdering humans.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, thank you. Oh you didn't know. That's what the
whole sucking podcast is about. Someone's like, wait, what I
thought you were going to talk out the story of
the Wizard of Oz. No, it's all this bad.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
The FBI profilers think that when the face is seen
in the photo, h he kills them. When the face
isn't seen, he allows them to live. It's like, come on,
you fucking.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Okay. So here's the tie in is that he's.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
A convicted kidnapper, rapist, counterfeiter, and suspected serial killer.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Was the habit of.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Passing counterfeit bills in shopping malls. He was operating around
Texas around that time and was known to impersonate security
guards and other positions of authority. Remember that chick was like,
I saw security guard driving them his van, right, because like,
who what girl back then isn't going to like go

(22:30):
with oh my god, my belchicken.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Go with the security guard. Do it into the microphone.
Last time we accept you. My mom is here. Oh
that's right, I'm sorry, Uh yes, is what you raised?
Uh yeah, I mean okay. So his guy comes over
and he's like, yeah, that was awesome. That's good podcasting
right there. That's the kind of shit you can't see

(22:53):
when you're listening. She's like the David Blaine of paper. Okay.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
So like back then, guys like I saw you shoplifting,
I'm I'm a security guard and you're like no, I didn't,
and he's like, come with me.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
You know, he makes them all come with him. Yea,
you go. It's like he has a blue shirt on
with a belt. And then you're like, oh, I guess
you're in charge. I guess I have to fucking do
whatever you say.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
There's no stranger danger, there's don't fucking don't fucking talk.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Back to authority. That's what that was back then. Yes,
so you just get in the car, gid bany Uh.
Sweet honesty, sweet honesty. She didn't understand. It's actually you
should sweet kick him in the dick.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
That's what he should have said. You guys, pepper spray
first and fucking apologize later.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Right these days, George's favorite thing to say is should
I pepper spray that guy? It's my It makes me
laugh so hard. I can't remember where we were, but
you were just like, do I need to pepper spray?
This Guy's like, please, don't not right now? Why not
just spray it around like room freshener in your mouth?

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Beyond banaka ah ah, let's do this, okay. So he's
known to impersonate cereal security guards, not serial chillips.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Another vision.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
So he lived within a half mile of Rachel, one
of the girls who disappeared at the time of the disappearance,
and then I reted, fucked up.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
He earned the respect.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Of the FBI profilers because he never gave himself away
in unguarded moments, no nor bragged.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
About his exploits. So the fucking FBI was like good
on him that he never told anyone. It was was
like a healthy respect for the enemy where because usually
they brag.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
Like but actually, I don't respect them for not getting
it out of this dude. If their fucking killer is smarter,
are we gonna should I not talk shit about the FBI.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
It's a sensitive time. Do it, someone, yel you fucking
do it. Listen, love those guys. I'm just this dude
was killing. We're going to do a show at the
FBI at Quantico next month and murder of our government,
you guy. Okay.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
The other dude, who I think is just the fucking dude, Uh,
Lloyd Welch is a drifter and a hitchhiker.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Lord Lloyd, Oh sorry, that would be cool though.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
He's like a lord Lord Welch, but in Texas Lord
of the bad manners because he the bad manners.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
That's what gets cut out usually.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
Okay, he's recently been charged around that. So recently around now,
he's been charged with the murder of the Lion's sisters.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
There's two girls. You're shaking your head. I can see it.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Catherine, who is ten and Sheila, who is twelve. Disappears
from a Maryland mall in nineteen seventy five.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay, exact same m O m oh at the time
of his arrest.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
No. Hell, at the time of his arrest, he's starting
a lengthy prison sentence in Delaware for child sexual abuse.
So he's a real fun guy, like a prize. Yeah,
mom is proud. Good stuff. So in December twenty fourteen,
here's another fucking asshole. Welch's cousin tells detectives that he
had helped Welch so that they never found the lion sisters.

(26:19):
They were like, well, you know, these girls got kidnapped
from them all never found them. In twenty fourteen, Welch's
cousin is like, well, one time I helped him with
two heavy Duffel bags in nineteen seventy five.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Dude, it gets worse.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
They met at a property in Virginia. He said he
helped to remove two army style Duffel bags from Welch's vehicle.
Each bag weighed about sixty or seventy pounds and smelled
like death.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
What the thought?

Speaker 1 (26:47):
It was probably camping equipment. It gets musty.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know how when your cousins ask you to help
you burn or bury something and you're like, I'm just
not asking questions.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
I mean, look, we're all cousins. We have to be
at Thanksgiving together. Just be chill. Be so awkward if
I'm like, what's in these and you're like, I don't
want to tell you. Come on, don't unzip that. It's
my it's my murdered duffel.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
He tells, He tells in twenty fourteen, and then oh,
and he said further, the bags were covered in red stains.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's probably kool aid? Was he blind? And death?

Speaker 3 (27:24):
And then in twenty fourteen he came to get.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
It all snapped back.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Yeah, miraculously and okay, So Lloyd Welch happens to be
he happens to.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Work at the time.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
He's like a drifter, but he worked for a traveling
carnival company. Guess where they set up all the time
in the seventies.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Inside a double bag.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
No in malls, and he was in Austin, Texas until
around seventy five. These carnival set up in malls from
the mid seventies to ninety seven.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
I'm just to picture a mall carnival and it's like, oh,
honeys bombing me out so bad.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
You know, your parents always work like they were always
like those rides are going to kill you. They also
didn't say those ride people are going.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
To kill you, right, Basically everything over there is going
to kill you.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, everything your mom, like your parents told you to
worry about.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
And you were like, you're being annoying, and no, they'll
kill you.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
You're dead on, yeah, dead on. It's so annoying when
your parents are right.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Uh So in twenty in July twenty fifteen, while she's
indicted charge with the girl's murder, his uncle is a
person of interest.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, the devil bag guy. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Okay,
So here's another thing. So he's in malls, blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
His longtime girlfriend at the time dated for over ten years.
We're always on the road together, et cetera, et cetera.
She was a security guard at a mall. Oh like
for the real deal. Yeah, barred her outfit?

Speaker 1 (28:54):
What's up stole those kids now dances? Oh?

Speaker 3 (29:00):
And then in two thousand and one, a secure former
serior security guard and Fortworth police officer gives a chilling account.
He says that he witnessed girls climb into a pickup
truck of a young male security guard and that they
appeared to go with him willingly.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Goodbye, thank you. I mean that's as fucked. Yeah, never found,
never found in the other two girls that were murdered,
that was never prosecuted.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
But do we know that the husband and sister weren't involved.
The brother thinks that the sister was involved. I like
to bring all of Texas up on charges for this story.
There's kind no one's innocent in this.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
He wouldn't be wrong. But also it's so wait, somebody
had the girlfriend was a real security guard, so they
could have been borrowing badges and shit and stuff to
make it look real totally.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Or maybe she was complete complicit. Maybe she was complicit
and fucking was like, good in my car, girls and
they got in our car, you know.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, all right, So don't go to the mall, don't
talk to security guards.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Don't don't worry your sweet honesty anymore.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Stop it, don't do it. I have to say, those
cold cases drive me crazy. I know that's your favorite.
There's just no we should set up like a red
phone on stage in case somebody finds out and it
comes through ring through. It'd be like Lloyd welch, Oh
my god, oh god, you guys. And then and then

(30:37):
like the balloons drop and confetti comes and we all
dance and dance. Well, good one. That was a good one.
Thank you. Clapford George's where are you going?

Speaker 4 (30:52):
What?

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Oh about your relieving? It was just giving you your
time in the spotlight. Yeah, I hate this fucking stool.
Say that about your stool.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Stand in stand and delivery. I'm gonna standing stair well.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I I did a very pandery thing, and I picked
a Chicago murderer. You think you're better than me? What's up? Said?
Do you think you're better than me? That's it? Uh.
But also because there were so many choices, a lot
of people love. They love to talk about how like
a Pacific Northwest? Will you have so many murders in

(31:38):
San Francisco? Hello Chicago, You guys want to kill everybody.
Chicago just doesn't brag about it. That's right, They're just
low key.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I'm just like, yeah, let's go have a beer. I
don't need to talk about that. How are you doing?
More importantly, we don't need to talk about the Torso murderers.
How are you doing? I've all kill it. No that's
not here, No, that's Cleveland. Anyway, there was a lot slippy.
There was a lot of choices to choose from, and

(32:12):
there was a lot of favorites, but I actually had
to go with this is my original. The reason I
got into reading serial killer books and watching true crime
shows fucking John Wayne Gabe. And I know this because
she accidentally told me in the hotel it slipped out

(32:33):
in the hotel room. What was the context of that.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
You were talking about how the hotel concierg was like
you had to print out your no, yeah, and she
was like, if you like John Wayne Gacy, you'll love
this tour.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
And then I was like, oh, fuck, yeah, that's all.
I said. Nothing, There was nothing. I don't know the deets, yeah,
but I'm about to hear them. You're about to hear them.
And you may have heard me say this before. But
the first thing I ever saw about John Wayne Gacy
because if you know, he buried the bodies of teenage
boys that he murdered inside his house. And when the

(33:07):
police arrested him finally and he was able to draw
diagram of his house and he knew where every single
boy was in the house and there were twenty seven
of them. I bet the FBI didn't respect him after that.
They were like, ohta get braggy bragger seen over there,

(33:29):
take it easy. So I saw when I was like
probably twelve, I opened a book age the Perfect Age
for True Crime. Opened a book and they had drawn
based on the diagram that John Wayne Gacy had drawn.
They had bade because they just used like long rectangles

(33:51):
to show where the bodies were, and some artists had
basically drawn body shapes like it almost looked like a
chalk outline, but like body shapes in a house diagram.
So that's I like, was, oh, childhood, And you know,
Johnny loves chawchi and fucking this and that. And I
look down at this thing and I'm like, why are

(34:12):
those boys floating in those boxes? And then I read
underneath it and it's like, uh, you know twenty seven
bodies were buried inside this house, and I was just like, Okay,
now I know that, and now I must know more,
and I won't stop adding that said Charlotte's Web and
the shit you already some pig. So let's talk about

(34:42):
fucking good old John. Also, the middle name Wayne is
very common in serial killer world, which I think is
kind of great that he got in there. I don't know,
but he They named him John Wayne Gas because his
mom loved John Wayne, the actor Red Flag right, not

(35:04):
a good sign that she loved film. So John Wayne
Gasey was born on March seventeenth, Saint Patrick's Day in
nineteen forty two, at Edgewater Hospital in Chicago, Illinois. Anyone Edgewater,
anyone else? You guys work there? Were you also born
there with him? He was the second of three children.

(35:28):
He had an older sister and a younger sister, and
his father was a machinist who had been in World
War One and he was a very bad alcoholic. So
the story was that his dad would come home from
work and he would go down into the basement and
drink brandy, which sounds classy, but they would have. They

(35:52):
would the mom would make dinner and then they will
I'll sit at the dinner table and wait for him
to come upstairs and see how he felt.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Well, well that when he came up he was really
happy and everyone was like, we can finally talk about
me brandy.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, no, God. Instead, normally he would come up drunk
and very angry, and he would beat them with a
strap for dinner.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
So I'm good tonight on strapped. I'm so full of
strap from last night. Don You can give it to
her though, her strap.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
And part of what they say, they think what fueled
his rage is that John was basically a mama's boy
and he liked that.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
The father was into fishing and hunting and man man man,
and John liked to cook and he liked to be
in the kitchen with his mom. He liked planting flowers
in the garden, things that in like the late forties,
apparently brought deep shame upon you and your ancestors and
were unacceptable. It made you drink brandy and beat children.
So it feels like the norm back then, though, you know, yeah,

(37:03):
I think it is. It's like everybody has to fit
into their box, and if you don't, I'm gonna punch
you in the face even though you're eight, all right,
And then I wrote down there, toxic masculinity ruins the
party again. I can't wait to see that meme. Then

(37:24):
when when John was nine he was molested by a
family friend, and then when he was eleven he was
hit in the head.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
With gall what with a swing, with a swing exactly
like Richard Ramirez with a swing.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I don't know if I like, he.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Got to nine, he was so fucking close to like
not getting molested, Like you're so close, and then some
fucking shitty neighbor like your dad's family friend all comes along.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
So close to getting and then a fucking swing.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Were they then that swing a metal back then they
probably were made out of like seven pounds of metal.
Were like, this will really center this swing nicely. Yeah,
and it's led so if you lick it, you're gonna die.
Uh uh so. But he also had a bad heart,

(38:18):
so he was prone to fainting spells, which didn't help
with the whole also gardening and cooking thing. I'm saying,
he's just like taking five every once in a while
type of stuff, and the uh so, we just fell
Why he's all fucked up. Then, to add to the

(38:43):
household tension, john had a secret fetish for women's underwear,
so he would steal his mother's silk panties and put
them hold on in a bag in the and in
a brown bag in the back of the closet, and
he would that's that was his like, panty stash, mommy's

(39:03):
panty stash. I said, he just stashed them. He's well,
I'm I mean, who am I to say that he
masturbated all over them?

Speaker 3 (39:13):
That's what I was looking for. That's you're saying, because
I am. I have a fetish for panties. I buy
a bunch of them and I wear them. That's underwear,
not the same you know.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
You buy a bunch of them and then stick him
in a brown bag and tuck him into the backyard.
And then I killed people. Yeah, So he he told
one of his friends that he had them. He showed
them to a friend of his and then said he
wanted he wished he could know what he looked like
as a woman. Oh, never trust anyone. So then his

(39:44):
sister found that brown bag in the closet. She told
the mom, and the mom was like, oh, Johnny's always
had a fetish for panties. So she was quite progressive actually,
just very nice to hear, but not helpful in anyway.

(40:07):
Uh okay. So when he so, he had a hard
time in school. He wasn't popular. He fainted a lot.
He was always thinking about those underwear and then he
would when he was nine. He never graduated from high school.
He went to four different high schools around the Greater
Metropolitan area and then he never graduated. And when he
was nineteen, he just left town. He moved to Las

(40:29):
Vegas without telling his family. But I was like, what
you're supposed to do? Yeah, when you live in them Midwest,
that's right. By no, I mean like get out of
your small town. I don't mean not you guys.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
They just all come rushing but this d Yeah, don't worry.
They'll fall into the orchestra pit. We're totally sick.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
So here's the thing. So he gets a job in
Las Vegas, and like I was thinking about this, Like
the first job you get out of high school, it's
usually based on the thing you kind of like the most,
or the thing that you're into. So like I worked
at a yogurt shop because I love eating, so much.
I worked at a bakery, did you, And well, John

(41:10):
became a janitor at a mortuary, Yeah, because it was
his passion the dead. And he actually later admitted to
the police that when he worked there one night, that's right,
he got into a coffin with the body of a
dead boy and fondled it. It gets so much worse.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
There's forty seven pages. A lot of this is my poetry.
I'm going to read later, all right. His parents actually.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Hire a private investigator to find him, and they find
him in Vegas. My parents wouldn't do that. You'd be like, well,
good luck. I mean, if you've got to be in
Vegas fondling dead bodies, then live your dreams. He came
back to Chicago and he went to business college, and

(42:14):
it turned out he was a born salesman because he
is a psychopath. Right, we're learning as we talk on
this podcast all about terminology and what it actually means
as opposed to what I think it means and say
it means to a whole shitload of people and then
people we didn't know. We're learning that people believe us

(42:35):
when we say shit, Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah,
So I think we've taught like psychosis. I've mixed up
psychosis and psychopath Uh. So I had the thing where
I told people that twenty five percent of the population
were sociopaths.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
People did knock like cheese corner. She said that it
was only one quarter. Yes, yeah, and I was okay.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
I didn't make fucking question. Everything's fine.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
You know, anyone can do a podcast, right, anyone, anyone,
It's true.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
So but for this I looked it up because clearly
we know that these these major players, uh are usually psychopaths.
And their thing is that they're very ambitious. It's like
they just want to get ahead. They're very very charming,
which apparently John Wayne Gacy was very charming and like
had the gifted gap. He's really he's very you know,

(43:28):
like he just made people feel very comfortable. And then
he had an insatiable sexual appetite, so he was kind
of always doing things so that he could.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Does all sound so like time consuming, you know, like
it makes want to take a nap.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, he had to. He had to like take vitamins
and just really like make sure you got enough water
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
You know, it's great, it's taking a nap with a
cat like I don't know. You don't need to be
super sexual or talkie or fucking.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Cool, just really just go to sleep. Yeah, well not
John as far as I know. Good. What if he
was like a crazy cat. Ladies like, oh my god,
I have like twelve cats.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
He worked at the nun Bush Shoe Company here in Chicago. Anyone, Yeah, Karen,
they shut it down, Stephen, can we edit that out? Stephen?
Can we turn that part up? Where no one supported me?

(44:29):
He was very good at it, and he ended up
getting transferred to Springfield, Illinois big time? Right, are you
representing from Springfield?

Speaker 4 (44:39):
Well?

Speaker 1 (44:40):
What, I was fucking right? And he joined a group
called the j C's. You can cheer for it now.
I just don't believe that you're actually the John Gacy's
John Gacy's. No, the j C's, that's JG's. Fuck. Sorry,

(45:00):
my mom, this is your fault, Jesus. The j C's.
From what I can gather, which there is almost no information,
I think they might be the Illuminati because it just
is a website, a weird blue website that's like, we're
a nonprofit organization help with the city, and it's like what,
but why? And based on who and like there's no answers,

(45:22):
just young people in jackets that are like the j c's.
So he was in the j c's and he made
a lot of like contacts and like you know, I
guess Maine friends or whatever. Very active. And that's when
you hear about John Wayne Gacy that he was like,
you know, he lived this crazy double life because he
was all successful and you know, was in parades and shit.

(45:42):
Well I think it was like it was based in
the j c's. That's how it started. And uh he was.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Uh So.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
In February nineteen sixty four, he meets a shy bookkeeper
and a year later he marries her, and she has
a very wealthy fan. It turns out it's an incredibly
beneficial marriage to him. I want to say, a shy
bookkeeper as to what bookkeepers are usually like, which is
fucking made a lot of theater students become bookkeepers. And

(46:14):
then so she's wealthy. Yeah, and so he's like, that's
so weird. I'm in love with you. What a great coincidence.
So later that year, so they get married in uh
oh no, sorry, they meet in February of sixty four.
They get married soon after and then later that year,

(46:34):
Oh this is this is mathematically impossible. Shit, it's I
have Later that same year, while his wife is in
the hospital giving birth to their first child. But I'm
pretty sure no, he could have knocked her up before.
Oh girls, John, you dog. Basically, she gets pregnant with

(46:57):
their first child. She's in the hospital giving b You know,
back then, I was like, men didn't have to be
in the delivery room. They weren't, you know, they were
as fun as the earth.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Women didn't even how to be there. They just like
knocked you the fuck out. That's right, You're like, let
me know when the baby comes. Well, he actually was
at a bar around the corner of the tho his coworkers.
He ended up fucking that night while his wife was
giving birth. Wakes up in the apartment the next day,
gets dressed, goes to the hospital and holds his newborn son.

(47:26):
Uh yeah, so this is the beginning of his double life.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
And then in nineteen sixty six, his father in law says,
if you move to Waterloo, Iowa, I will I will
kill you from the audience. She's just scared because she
was thinking about something that happened earlier. There was a spider.

(47:50):
There was a spider on her. So there's a spider.
The father in law says, if you move to Waterloo, Iowa,
you can have three Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants. Oh my god,
am I right with the fucking Waterlu Chicken. I would
do that. So he goes there to manage. He's twenty four,

(48:10):
hopeully shit. And the funniest thing is we watch these
I mean, there's a million of uh what do you
call documentaries about him. He always looks fifty three, yeah,
like from from fucking Jump. When there's pictures of him
as a boy, you're like, is that the oldest boy
in America? He's just at the Kentucky Fried Chickens. They

(48:34):
say he's like a good manager and he does very
well in the job, but he makes his employees call
him the colonel. What a fucking nerd? Can you believe?
If he's If I was standing there with my dumb
apron on like work in Kentucky Fried Chicken, He's like,
I'm your new manager, but you got to call me
the colonel. I'd be like, see you fucking later, colonel.

(48:56):
I don't work here anymore.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
But you know he thinks it's like fun and like,
you call me this, but every time you don't, He's like,
I said, call me and she comes home from a
hard day of work and she's like, my twenty four
year old, fucking boss, I'm fifty three.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
He was telling me to call him the fucking colonel.
He also loves boys. Yeah, so he's quickly becomes a
well liked member of the community. This is what he does,
what he's good at. He joins, Uh, the j c's
and Waterloo, they're everywhere. Now you're gonna see them everywhere.

(49:31):
It eventually turns into scientology.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
And they said he became the most valuable member of
the j c's because he got put in charge. Who's
the chair the chairman of the membership drive. And what
he would do is to get people to join the
j c's, would have them meet in a motel room
and show stag movies and bring prostitutes and have orgies.
That sounds amazing, and then people would be like, sure,

(49:56):
I'll join the fucking jc's. Let's do this.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yeah, Like what did it's to become the most valuable
valuable member back then? Just like some money for prostitutes, Okay,
fucking sex workers. Sorry back then, I think they were prostitutes.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
So historical. So oh. Then his sister in one of
these documentaries talks about she finds out when they go
visit them one time, did him and his wife swap partners?

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Like that?

Speaker 1 (50:24):
They're they're what is that called the swingers? Are swingers
like Vince Vaughan, And we don't even know what that means. Uh,
And we're like kind of proud of it. He tells
his sister when they're visiting, I'm like, yeah, we're gonna
go to this party tonight, but we might go home
with other people. It's like, okay, you know you're both gross, right,

(50:45):
you know I know about the underwear in the bag, right, Yeah.
And then he's voted the jc's Man of the Year,
so call me colonel. So then in when he's in Waterloo,
he ends up, his wife goes out of town. He
invites the fifteen year old son of a fellow JC
and a state senator over to the house to watch

(51:08):
a stag film get drunk, and he molests this boy
no shit, And then he told him you can't tell
him me because I have ties to the mafia in Chicago.
Here's fifty bucks. Keep your mouth shut, and it works
for a little while. It works for long enough so
that he Melissa's second boy. And then finally one boy breaks,

(51:31):
and then the other one does, and he gets arrested
and he gets sent to prison provation for ten years.
The prison psychiatrist recommends that he not be released ever,
as he was a sexual sadist and could never be rehabilitated.
But he was so well behaved that he served eighteen months. Yeah,

(51:58):
fucking fuck man. His wife divorces him. She's like, yeah,
the swinging thing was one thing, but what the fuck?
So he goes back to Chicago. While he's in jail,
his father dies, has a heart attack and dies, and
he's convinced it's because of what he did, which is

(52:19):
probably true. So he goes and moves in. His mother
helps him buy a house and they move in together,
and he's like trying to, you know, make good on
all of his bad behavior. So they buy a house
at eight two one three West Summerdale Avenue in the
Norwardwood Park. Anyone lived there at that house, but for real, though,

(52:42):
you can't cheer if you don't actually live there. And
we're all going there right now. And then in June
of nineteen seventy one, he starts his infamous contracting company
business I should say, called Pedium, which stands for painting decorating,
And mean, what does it really stand for? Pedophile? Penis?

(53:06):
Karen just it stands for penis. But he put DM
after just to throw people off. And here's the thing.
He basically only hires teenage boys to work for him
red Flag. And when I mean really, and when anybody
asked him about it, he's like, they're more reliable than

(53:26):
grown men. Teenage boys in the seventies, all right, Okay,
there's like literal movies.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Made about teenage boys in the seventies being unreliable and unreliable.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
So okay. So in January of nineteen seventy two, when
he is twenty nine sixty one, he picks up He's
single now, so he doesn't have to no one's checking
on him. I don't think his mother's really paying attention.
So one night he goes to the Greyhound bus station

(54:00):
and he picks up a teenage runaway named Tim McCoy,
and he takes him back to his house where they party,
they have sex. It's they believe that part was consensual.
But then Gasey grabs a kitchen knife and stabs him
to death. So this is his first kill, and he's
also the first body that's buried in the cross space.

(54:23):
And because he was a runaway, no one ever knew
the boy was missing, so the cops were never alerted.
So then the next line is then he remarries a
woman named Carol. It's very easy for him to date
for some reason. It's so funny, how much more these
people have their shit together than you, And I likes,

(54:45):
you mean me, you're married, I'm married by us the
string of my teeth, I mean.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
It was a friend of his sisters from high school,
and sister again in a documentary is like, I mean
I didn't really see you know, them together, but you
know they seem happy. So and it's just like, oh
all right. So basically he's just using her as body
armor and then just like going about his day. So
in nineteen seventy five is when he starts dressing up

(55:20):
infamously as Pogo the Clown. Now everybody's seen the pictures,
but if you haven't, if you're from Norway or whatever,
because anyone, wow, they don't do that. He dressed up
as a clown, but he did the makeup. There's like

(55:41):
a rule in clown makeup where everything has to be rounded.
Everything's circular and rounded and like fun because you're staring
into the face of children and Pogo the clown, you know,
say they love round shit, donuts and cookies and fucking
clown eyes. But John Wayne Gacy's clown makeup is pointy,

(56:05):
pointy point It's the scariest thing. It's truly like a
clown night.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Illuminati Illuminati right fucking death track light swastika on the forehead.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
So bad. Okay. So in seventy six, after three years
of marriage, his wife leaves him just because, you know,
she just didn't feel like it anymore. That's not feeling it.
So there's this story and this guy, this guy Tony
anton Nucci tells the story in one of the documentaries.
He was sixteen at the time. He was working at
the contracting company. John Wayne Gacy invites him over because

(56:37):
this was the thing. It would be like, come up
my house and let's smoke the joint and we'll have
a couple of drinks. We'll hang out. And then when
the teenage boys would get there he would be. So
this guy was a high school wrestler. So John Wayne Gacy'
is like, oh, come on, mister Russeller, show me your
wrestling moves. And the guy's like, okay, that's such a thing. Yes,
it's a real love that, it's a real thing. Yeah.
Because then you're high, and then you're like, well, I'm

(56:58):
not gonna say no to my boss who wants me
to wrestle. Yeah, and then suddenly you can though. Just
know that, guys, you can literally just put the joint
down and be like, I'll see you tomorrow. You don't
need to.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Drink with older people. I don't know anyone. My parents
are older, and I drink with them.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
It's fine. Something about you know something is there's something deep,
there's something in there. It's just no, we're going to
take around with it for sure. You don't need to
drink with older the age spray everyone. So basically, he
challenges him to a wrestling match, and when while they're wrestling,

(57:41):
he throws a handcuff on one of Tony's wrists and
he tries to get the other wrist handcuffed, and he's
fighting him and fighting him, and then he thinks he
gets in, so uh, Gacy leaves the room and then
Tony what had happened is he fought him so much
that the handcuff was only clicked to like the first thing,
so he was able to pull his hand out of

(58:03):
the handcuff. But then when Gacy walked back in the room,
he kept his hand back by his back, so it
still looked like he was handcuffed. And so when Gacy
came over to him, he fucking took him down. He
did like a wrestling move, took him down to the ground,
and Gasey goes, oh, you passed the test. So then
Tony's like, oh okay, and then he just kept working

(58:23):
for him. Oh yeah, I wanted that to end better.
I mean, he was alive to tell the story. So
that's good, true, But it was that thing where he
was like, you know, it's it's your boss, and you
just you want it was a good job. They were
probably making, you know, a good amount of money.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
And it's such a weird story that there's no way
to explain it to someone and sound like now you'd
be like this thing happened and that would be a
classic assault.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
But now, but then it was just like hey, he's
just goofing around. Yeah, you know, we got high and
that thing where your boss wrestles you and handcuffs you.
Didn't you work at the gap. That happened to you
once at the gap, right, Yes, it happens. It's normal,
all right. So basically this is this is his It
turns out that this becomes Gacy's mo o. It's either

(59:12):
that handcuff trick or the magic rope trick. The magic
rope trick was he would say, oh, I'm gonna show
you this magic rope trick. And it was all around
the fact that he was Pogo the clown, So he'd
like like, I'm a clown. I have these tricks. I'm
gonna show you the trick. So it's such a nightmare
you're like kind of high, like okay, Like even just

(59:33):
the clown stuff, I'd be like, I'm sorry, I just
had an emergency call. I have to leave. Like they
didn't have phones back then, It's right, they couldn't. They
just had to sit there in their down vest being
like cool man. Yeah, the fucking rope trick. The magic
rope trick is they stand there and he goes So
this is what I do and then he would just
throw a rope around their neck and fucking strangle that.

(59:53):
That was the magic rope trick. So it was quick
and bad. So the problem was that he he hired
these boys and a lot of them are written off
as runaways when they would disappear, and oftentimes it would
come to him, so they'd be like, oh, he worked
for you, have you seen him lately? And Tony Antonucci
tells in one of those stories, he said he was

(01:00:14):
supposed to meet this boy, John Zick, and John Zick
never showed up for the job they were supposed to
go do together, and then Gasey came up and goes.
He called me and he said that he went to
uh Cabo San Lucas. Yep, yeah, because that's where you
go when you're a teenager, when you're a teenager yourself,

(01:00:36):
I'm just gonna go. I'm gonna quick, sies. I just
need to go down to the Mexican riviera for a while. Yeah,
I'm gonna go. I just need to take it easy, goodbye.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
So uh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
So at this point, oh and also around this time,
Gacy also put red lights in his car and would
when he would see a target, he would pull them
over and say that he was an undercover cop and
that he was had to bring them in. He would
handcuff them and then he would have them.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Never pull your car over when you're getting followed by
a cop, tell them, Tell them I said that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
And when the cop comes to your window, you should
pepper spray him in the jot. Yes, which is also
the thing that Hillside stranglers did. They posed as cops
and pulled women over and would be like, you have
a bunch of tickets to get into our car.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Which is why you actually, I mean, I'm not fucking
bullshitting now. You do want to pull over in a
well populated area. You don't want to if some cop
is stopping you on a fucking deserted road, You're fucking
getting off on the next stop in parking into McDonald.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
You know what you're doing. You're high speed chasing it
by to evolve. Tell them your mother sent you. Karen
and Georgia so around this time, at this point, he's
been getting away with murder for six years. At the
end of nineteen seventy seven, he'd killed nineteen boys, and
by nineteen seventy eight he was committing a every two

(01:02:01):
to three weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Holy shit, your town. I can't even vacuum every two
to three means there's so much dog hair on all
my clothes at all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Me too. The only reason we don't have it is
because we've packed these I bought this here, all right.
So his last victim, this is in December nineteen seventy eight,
and it was fifteen year old Robert Peacete and he
worked part time at a drugstore in does planes, does planes?
De planes? Does planes? Does planes? It doesn't matter. So

(01:02:40):
his mom, this Robert Peace's mom, is in the parking
lot to pick him up when his shift is over.
It but he goes, hold on a second, I met
this guy who has a better job for me, and
it's it's a really good paying job. I'll be right back,
and he never comes back. They go out into the
parking lot after fifteen minutes and he's nowhere to be seen.

(01:03:00):
But here's the thing, and this is where if you've
ever seen there's a movie where Brian Denny, he plays
John Wayne Gacy, and you have to see it. It's
so crazy because he was a crazy drunk and on pills.
So by this point he's been doing it and getting
away with it for so long. He's like sloppy as hell.
He thinks no one's ever going to catch him, and
he's just really sloppy. So the people in this drug

(01:03:21):
store knew who John Wayne Gacy was, the guy who
always offers kids job exactly a pogo the clowns here again.
It's that guy who wears a sweet Honesty T shirt.
I brought it back around. Yeah, it's called to bring
it back around. Yeah. So anyway, they file a missing

(01:03:42):
person's report. He is not a runaway. They can't blame
it on any of that shit. This was this boy
was an eagle scout loving family. So uh, the cops.
They trace it back to Gaysey. The cops go to
his house to question him at three point thirty in
the morning when they finally trace it back, and he's pissy.
He's like really bitchy to the cops. It would be

(01:04:03):
oh no, I'm sorry. They go to his house like
at night, normal time, and he's really bitching. He's like,
I will come down to the station. I'll come down
to talk to you. He shows up at three point
thirty in the morning at the police station covered in mud,
so They're like, could you take a seat in here please,
I just have a couple of questions to ask you.

(01:04:27):
And they finally do a background check and see that
he was convicted for sodomy in Iowa, and they're finally like,
I think we've got this the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
So yeah, but can I just say that sodomy is
a bullshit charge that they because they didn't give him
the you guys never mind what it's just a thing
where they like didn't want to charge him with child
molestation or give him a real fucking charge. They gave
him eighteen months because they gave him sodomy instead, which
like anyone could get sodomy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
That's not what I mean. That's right, that's right, And
if you're not comfortable with that, maybe it's your problem. Yeah.
They detain him at the police kids, and I mean,
I don't know what to say. Okay, they detain him

(01:05:20):
at the police station. They go and search Gacy's home
and they find a trap door that leads down to
the crawl space and then a cop crawls down to
the crawl space and they're like, there sure is a
lot of lime down here, and they just come back up.
They didn't find anything. They came, yeah, yeah, someone said no, no,

(01:05:46):
there's more on this paper, I swear to God. So
what they do find is a bunch of jewelry that
does not belong to him. And one of the things
that they found was a class ring with the initials
JC inside it, and they trace that ring back to
John Zick. His last name is spelled so insanely it
sees z yszk or something like that. I just wrote

(01:06:10):
it Zick because I couldn't deal. But they basically see,
they trace the ring, they get John's name, They go
to the Zick home and they say the mother tells
them he's been missing since January twentieth, nineteen seventy seven,
and they're like, ding ding ding, here we go, this
is our guy. So then they start they stake him out,

(01:06:32):
and they have to get they have to get a
search warrant for his house. So while they're waiting, they
put the surveillance team on his house, and Gasey is
doing things like leading them on long, medium speed chases
till dawn, or like he doesn't even know anyone's following him. No, no, no,
he does. He's doing it on purpose, or he's like

(01:06:53):
buying them dinner like they're out there, you know, like
trying to order food or whatever. And then he just
picks up the tab like he's fucking round, like he's
there's he can't ever get caught. But they get a
second search warrant, and uh, that's when, oh, I'm sorry.
He invited them in for a fish dinner. And while

(01:07:14):
that the two cops were inside, one of them said
could I use your restroom? And when the cop goes
into the restroom, he uh, they said it was around
Christmas time, so the heater was on and the cop
walked into the bathroom. I keep saying restroom, but it's
a home. He goes into the bathroom and smells death
and he's like this, what did you hear that? What

(01:07:39):
I just heard? A ghost? He was like, the heater
came the heating event came on.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
So that's when we found out Karen was crazy, out
of mind, totally insane.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
The heater event came on, the air came out, and
it was the smell of death and he knew that
this this was They had to search this house basically,
so so essentially blip bleep, sorry, oh what they how
they finally got him was he had driven to a
gas station and like dropped off a bag of pot

(01:08:15):
to somebody. So they got him on this really dumb charge.
But they were able to hold him at the police station.
They got the second warrant. They go into the house,
they go into the crawl space, and after fifteen minutes,
because they just didn't take enough time the first time.
After fifteen minutes or like, we have three bodies down here,
and then it's on like Donkey Kong, and eventually they

(01:08:37):
find in those in that crawl space, twenty the twenty
seven bodies of young men and boys. I feel so
bad for those cops that had to do all that
shit up it. It's so even just the old footage
is so upsetting looking it's seen it. It's yeah, you
have to look at it. This is his mom just
playing Solitaire the whole time or something. She no, she died.

(01:08:59):
At some point. I almost said, she's like, what's that, Johnny,
I didn't hear you come in now. I don't want
to do the haircuff trick again. I don't want to yo.
You did that to me. I fell. So there's twenty
seven bodies in the house, and then he admits that

(01:09:20):
there are also six He dumped in the river, and
that's when he was covered in mud at the police station.
He had just dumped Robert Peaste's body. He basically dumped
it and went straight to the police station. He stands
trial in February of nineteen eighty. He never shows an
ounce of remorse. They put the victims' family members and
friends on the stand, so everybody sees all of these

(01:09:41):
boys and all their family and all the people that
were affected, and in three hours the jury finds him
guilty on all accounts. He's sentenced to death, and after
fourteen years of appeals, he's put to death on May tenth,
nineteen ninety four. His last words were kiss my ass.
Oh he's a good guy, and his last meal was Kentucky.

(01:10:04):
That's right, that's cool. I mean, no, that's awful. I
don't know. I kind of like it, I know. And
then they destroyed that house, which I when I first
saw the footage of that, they like pulled the whole
fucking thing down, and then I was like, that's a
bit dramatic, and I was like, what am I talking about?
Like that what real estate could sell? The real estate

(01:10:27):
agent could sell that fucking.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
Killing twenty seven people is in traumatic, but then tearing
the house down, tearing the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
House, I was like, stop it. You guys are being nuts.
You're being uh what's the word dramatic? Yes, and that's
Sean wy Gay's a good job Chicago. Yeah, thank you? Right?
Uh yeah, we might need We might have time for

(01:10:55):
one hometown, Sarah lay to turn the lights on for once.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
You have to jump over the orchestra hit though, if
you're gonna say it, if you're gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
It's someone's birth yeah, hold on a second, because it's
someone's birthday. There's two people's birthday. Karen. Look, there's Elvis's face.
You have to stand up. The pointing. The pointing doesn't work.
What what's happening? That's Elvis's face? What the fuck? Holy shit?

(01:11:26):
I thought it was empty up there.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Oh my oh hi, I think it was because I
couldn't stand it. Nope.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Okay, does anyone have a hometown that's like really good though,
if someone's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Pointing at you in there? Okay, okay, okay, how do.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
We this was?

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
We should have thought this through. Can she walk over
and around really quick?

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
No, here they're like, we hate you, but there's someone
standing there. Someone must be in charge. Who's in charge?
That could help us? We're not Does someone work here?

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Oh, I'm just kidding. We just have one person run
up here really quick. Oh no is the answer. No,
we'll do a dance in the meantime. Stand up, whoever
has it? Will you stand up? Yea?

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
Is it you?

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Okay? What's your name? I think I'm gonna throw this. Jesus,
you took your shoes off. I'm sorry? Yes, well, oh okay, yeah,
all right, we're having a hometown. Put it together in
your mind right now. It needs to be a story.
It has to be beginning, middle, and end. Are you

(01:12:44):
all right? Yeah? Fine, I'm gonna let her sit on
my stool. See how she does housekeeping? Do you have
any housekeeping? Housekeeping? Stephen's actually home watching my cats right now.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
It's pretty pretty sweet. They really like they really like him.
I'm gonna keep talking here. She comes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
What's her name? Ashley?

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Hi?

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
How's it going good? That's Georgia. Yeah, just sit right here. Oh,
we're happy to be here. Sit on it, do it,
don't fall? Yeah? OK's just see how you doing. It's fucked. Yeah,
it's really wabbly. You sat on this for an hour.
It's slippery too. There are these weird food songs. Yeah,
that's impressive. Okay, So what's your hometown? Where are you from?

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
So I am from about an hour outside of the
city to cal anybody and I am, yeah, so there's
a big college out there. Tell him, oh, I know, Yes,
that's another really good one, Tony.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
If you ever get a chance to look at that up,
that's a really good like you were.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Talking about, like someone you went to school, but aout
right Now, he's a murderer I met.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
So I'm not going to take full credit because this
is actually my boyfriend's hometown murder.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
He's a local in the area. We'll take it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:09):
And he told this story to me on one of
our first dates, and I was really fascinated by it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
That's a caper, like, are you taking notes? You know?

Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
So he lived in a really small town, actually outside
of a calb small farming town, and he worked at
a gas station when he was in high school. And
there was a guy who would come to the gas
station every day, and every day he would buy a
pack of cigarettes and a thirty racid beer and he
was approximately three.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Hundred pounds, so you know, live in the dream.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
Yes, the town kind of noticed that he went missing
and they filed the missings person's report about a couple
of weeks after he went missing. He was a cook
at this restaurant slash motel that was it's on Highway
forty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
If anybody knows that it's badness, badness. It's in the
middle of nowhere, hotel on a highway.

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
Yeah, so it was called the Bohemia, and uh, the
owner of the restaurant was a guy he Uh, he
owned the restaurant and he hired this guy as a cook,
and he also the guy also.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
Lived in the motel.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
Souh. After a couple of weeks police are searching for
this guy, somebody calls in a tip and says, hey,
I actually was helping my friend the other day.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
He owns the Bohemia restaurant.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
He had some extra money laying around, so he decided
he wanted to bury it in the cornfields. So he
asked me if i'd come out and helped dig some
holes for him, which is totally logical. This guy's like,
you know, not thinking about it. Yeah, so many bags
well so so hell. So he tells the police where

(01:15:46):
they buried it, or they buried the money, and the
police go out there dig up the holes and spoiler,
it was not money.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
No, no.

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
In the hole they found two garbage bags. One was
the head of this man, the cook, the three hundred
pound cook, and the other bag was his torso. So
they did an autopsy. They found out I mean, it's
it's sad. Obviously he was murdered, but he was kind
of on the verge of death. He actually they ruled

(01:16:18):
that it was a heart attack because his heart stopped.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
Because his head was removed.

Speaker 4 (01:16:24):
Probably, but but actually that came up where they weren't
almost going to press charges because it's technically that's all
they had was the torso in.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
The head was the carbs everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:16:36):
Yeah, he also had cirrhosis of the liver and emphysema,
which I was going to say ezema, but.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
My friend corrected me in the car and she's like, no,
you wouldn't die from that. She probably had that too.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
Yeah, So they ended up pressing or indicting the owner
of this restaurant, the Bohemian, and come to find out
he was murdered in the kitchen where he was a cook.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
I hate the reason why he was murdered.

Speaker 4 (01:17:00):
It was over a bad drug deal, which I'm just
gon know, but but what happened after is just like amazing.
So the thing was is like, is he wanted I
guess he didn't come up with this plan right away
because obviously he couldn't move the three hundred pound man
decided to cut him up. Didn't know what to do
with him at first, the whole digging a hole in

(01:17:21):
the cornfield didn't come to him, so he decided to
store the body parts in the motel room fridges through drugs,
and they were able to collect evidence because there was
his DNA in the fridge.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
The little ones, I mean, I don't know how big
they were. Probably it probably had like peanuts and candy,
you know. Yeah, and then the dead body parts in
that Oh it's fair. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
So the guy was actually sentenced to ninety years in prison.
He is still alive, and I'm so sorry I forgot
his name.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
I don't know. Oh you're then you're fired, okay, olli oli,
that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:17:58):
But one thing I will point out is his head
and his torsa were recovered, but his limbs.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
His arms and legs were never found.

Speaker 4 (01:18:07):
So I don't know what time your flight leaves tomorrow,
but if you guys want to go on a laxivation
to find some legs and arms.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
In the city. Yay, thank you so much, done so good,
thank you. Yes, that's how it's done. You all know
how to do it. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Thank you guys so much for being here. You're all
sweep baby angels. It makes it means the world to us.
This is crazy. We've never done a crowd this big. Yeah,
it really does. It's really amazing. Yeah, and you know what, you.

Speaker 5 (01:18:49):
Guys, stay sexy and don't get murd Yeah, we'll come
to Hi, do you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
H