Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar.
That's Karen Kilgariff. That's Christmas. It's officially not Christmas anymore
while you're listening, but it's but it's definitely, but it's
definitely the first night of Hanukkah. Get ready congratulation. Hey
all you half Catholic half Jews out there, what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Man? I love that idea, those couples together, the half
Catholic half Jewish, because like the both families were like,
what are you fucking talking about? You know, It's like
both families were like no with those people. We have
some adorable holiday decorations. Thank you to Asia again, she's
like our she's like our stylist.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, but also the first one i'd just credit where
credits to Alejandra did the autumnal Halloween show.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
She had ran her ass down to Target for like
the last second. Okay, I thought it was Asia this time.
Asia went and really did it up nicely.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm definitely stealing the Hanukah decorations when we leave today,
I think you should good. And I have my faux
Christmas sweater on. Oh those are great.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
On you are these are these really me Christmas glasses?
Are you? Who know? I can see so much better now,
can you see the spirit of Christmas? I can see
Jesus's soul. I was going to say just as a
fun factoid. Turns out this very rare event when Christmas
and the beginning of Kanika land on the same day.
(01:41):
It's something to mark your calendar over. Yeah, and that's
why we've done this.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's fun for us because when Hanakah is like sometimes
it's in like it starts in November and it's over
by Christmas break for everyone else, and it's kind of
a bummer every year where it's like the spirit of
the holidays it's already over or like hasn't started even,
you know, like it's just like doesn't matter to us anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
It's almost like the majority, or at least like the
cultural people that are taking up the most space are
doing it over there, and you're like, right, but we
have a thing too, totally.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And it's like done by you know, after Thanksgiving. It's
not as fun for me personally as a Jewish person,
but I love it that it's around the same time
this year.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, this time, it's like there's just a lot of
potential to do some nice combinations.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, you can't help it being a little resentful when
you have someone else's holiday off when you've already celebrated
your holiday, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, it's a little like, well, this is sitting in
front of the TV. This isn't like warming my soul
in any way, right, you know what does I was
told by several Jewish friends that Hanukut isn't the major holidays.
It's like it's just kind of thrown in there where
it's like, yeah, we get one too.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't mean to say like, I.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Shouldn't say like, but it's just not the it's not
the it's not the Christmas.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Of one too, even though we had ours first, right,
first book and it has no yeah yeah, yeah, you
know there's other big ones. So right, it's fun, but
it's a fun. What are they pass over Russia? Shana
from Nice?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
There we go?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Really right there? That was the big test you passed?
Mitzvah was the biggest of that? Is that true? Now?
Did you get one? I had about Metz?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Oh nice?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Was it like the local you know, women's club or something?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
No, my mom was a property manager at the time
for this like really nice apartment building in Venice Beach
and so they let her use the clubhouse for that perfect.
It was great. That's great. No alcohol was allowed, which
was like, now I'd be like, well, we can't have
it there then, But.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, you mean, if you were your mom, you would
have been like, I'm surprised she was cool at that
not having that.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Should we do our latest December donation show announcement. So,
as you guys know, we've been making donations to these
incredible charities all month long. We do it every December,
and we are so grateful to be able to.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Do so, and that's because of you guys, our listeners.
So for this our final donation on Christmas c we're
going to give ten thousand dollars to an organization called
Girls Inc. Their nonprofit that empowers girls to be strong, smart, and.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Bold, and since eighteen sixty four, they've supported girls through
mentorship and programs designed to help them overcome barriers and
become confident leaders.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Girls Inc.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Also advocates for policies that promote equity, getting every girl
the opportunity to succeed.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
It feels like the time is now to be supporting
things like Girls Inc. Yeah, and really telling women they
are no second class citizens. In fact, they're very important. Yeah,
you can do anything, Yes you can. So if you
would like to join us in giving to Girls Inc.
Please go to their website at Girlsinc dot org. It's
only the Future of Women d NVD and there are
(04:59):
other to give.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
You can volunteer to become an advocate, start a fundraiser,
or enroll with a local affiliate. It's all on their website,
girlsinc dot org.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So let's keep showing up for each other in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
This is how we're going to do it. Yes, let's yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Oh, speaking of I have a little email I think
you will enjoy. The subject line is Gothcloth Co on
My Favorite Murder? Is this a dream? Did I die?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Am I a ghost?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And it says hello MFM ladies, critters, creepers, ghosts and goals.
WOWSA What a morning? Jordan k Hill here, owner, founder
and designer for the brand Gothcloth Co. Yeah. When I
heard Karen not only say my brand's name this morning,
but also my name on the podcast, I thought for
a moment that I was dead. This can't possibly be real.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Can it?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
First and foremost, I just want to express my insane
gratitude that MFM would take the time to check out
my company and my personal statement. Long story short, I've
been designing and making my own clothes since I was
a kid ohing on, and when I got late off
as a creative director for a dog toy company that
got bought out back in twenty twenty three, it was
finally time to make my dream of having my own
(06:08):
goth brand a reality.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
What a dream to go from designing dog toys, which
is awesome to begin with, and then being like, you
know what I really want to do?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Can we get a line of goth dog clothes? I
was just thinking, do you think Jordan may have been
doing a little bit of that while she was at
the dog toy company? Definitely?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I mean dogs see black and white, right, so like
give them black.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Toys and they also love Ato Weight State, right. I
mean that's a band from when I was twenty I'm
not sure. I don't know if they can't if they
count Alejandra, will you see if I'm hip and look
that up? The rest is never in a million years
do I think my favorite podcast oh would be sharing
my brand with their community. I am floored, honored, blessed,
(06:50):
and actually deceased. I started listening to MFM way back
in twenty sixteen, not quite a day one listener, but close.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I don't day one listener.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I think people literally think they had to be there
for the first episode.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's like the same thing as hometowns. Like it's not
hometowns anymore. We want to hear any story, and day
one listener means like, you know, early days, early, yeah,
earliest days, although to be there actual daylines something else.
So I think that's what Jordan's talking about. But close.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
As I started my work from home freelance journey after
grad school almost nine years later, I continue to have
so much love for Karen and Georgia. They're the cool,
enlightened anties that this southern goth.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Always wish she had.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
When I heard the miniesod story find a Goth, I
thought we have to repost this on the Gothcloth page
because one, it was so on brand for the community
I've built and the alternative community as a whole. They
really are the best folks, and two, and more importantly, lol,
it'll help me find other murdering nos I love, love,
love that it could help bring exposure to the show
(07:51):
and Nick Terry's work, And honestly, I just thought it
was so cool that the story and message resonated with
so many people. Goths rock so sweet. From the bottom
of my spooky heart, thank you, MFM Jordan Yay, isn't
not the sweetest.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I love that I do too. I was talking to
Nick Terry at our holiday party just last week about
the about them reposting it, and he was so excited,
and I was like, I knew that one would be
a good one. Sometimes we'll start talking and I'll be like,
this is going to be it. This needs to be
a Nick Terry And I like, what should I do
to make it easier for you?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Right?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And he was like, make things have voices, give voices
to ananimate or you know, random objects. That's all like,
that's our cue. Is Like when you were talking about
like a lock box or a fucking money tunnel, we
need to like give those voices. I love being a
lock box or whatever like that.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I'm not I'm not performing for Nick Terry. He's not
my director. I love Nickterry in his face so much.
I got so cute he's a great man and a
true artist, truly.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Do you want to do some arm highlights real quick?
That's Jewish? Okay, we have a we still leave it
on the first night of Honaka. We still have a
podcast network called Exactly Right Media even now, even now,
today's stay and age. So here are some highlights.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
We have new videos. Have you seen them? And would
you like to see more? We'll then join the fan
Cult and you will never miss anything ever again, ever
in life. Visit fancult dot supercast dot com and get
in on the action and.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You can follow us please, we really appreciate it. Our
handle is exactly Right on all social media and there
you'll get updates for shows like this podcast Will Kill
You and Ghosted by ros Hernandez just gave us a follow.
It helps us out.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, it helps everyone in the podcast world.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I can follow us.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yes, we can't follow you, it's too it would be
too hard. Also, please rate, review, and follow all of
our shows wherever you like to listen. Just if you
listen on the iTunes app. When you're listening, it's there.
You just don't pay attention to things like that, I
don't for sure, but if you just look it'll give
you the opportunity just hit five stars as you're listening.
(10:02):
There's like a little heart if you could heart that.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, just that just helps us out a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Add to show, follow show, subscribe along those lines.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Get in there, you know, learn what.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Your phone does. Please please?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Wow? Well, do you want me to tell you a story?
I'm eating the Christmas candy that's on the table you
get to because.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's my day. This is a short, short one. Even
though Asia decorated, we went all out, we're themed out,
but it's just gonna be me telling a story. Aaron Solo.
I'm so excited about it. I can just chill out
and eat fucking candy, throw your feet as high up
in the year as you can.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And wave them around.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah. I just like, like you just think it's Christmas
an hankah. At the same time, I'm very very excited
about this story. Okay, because I don't know if you
know this about me, but I'm a real big fan
of Aretha Franklin. When I was in college. Is kind
of when her Greatest Hits album came into my life
and never left. And I really my favorite thing that
(11:09):
I started doing, which I now have learned as a
coping mechanism. In a way to self soothe your nervous
system is sing along with her album. Oh, singing is
a kind of like a somatic healing practice, which I
never did. Personally, I think she's the greatest singer.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Of all time. Yeah, she'd really done it.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
If you've never done it, go onto YouTube and go
into a Aretha Franklin video wormhole. You will not regret it.
There's some unbelievable stuff, especially from like the sixties and
seventies that she did. There's one thing where she made
a video walking. It's like a live shot of her
from a TV show, but she's walking down like side
(11:49):
streets in Manhattan singing a song to camera basically like
it's one of my favorite things of all time. And
it's like she's got like a seventies plaid code on
and it's like seventies New York her.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's the best.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
She also did the thing where she stood in for
Pavarotti when he got sick, Like last minute, she sang
the song nessun dorma with a full orchestra. She sang
opera holy shit, Like she is a true insane talent
and so I'm going to tell you a little story
related to that. I'll set the scene. It's nineteen sixty
(12:22):
nine in a packed club in Fort Myers, Florida, and
the show tonight is guaranteed to be unforgettable. There's a
sold out crowd of fourteen hundred people buzzing with anticipation
to see the one and only Queen of Soul, Aretha Franklin.
The lights go down and Aretha is introduced, but as
she steps onto the stage, something.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Feels a little bit off.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
For a split second, this legendary performer actually looks nervous.
Then she starts to sing, and that voice is unmistakable.
Everyone knows they're in the presence of a legend, except
they're not. This The act crowd doesn't know is that
it's not Aretha Franklin that they're listening to and watching.
(13:05):
The woman on stage is an impostor, and she is
here under duress. She's being forced to impersonate Aretha Franklin,
and if she doesn't comply, it could.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Cost her her life. The fuck.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
This is the story of singer Mary Jones Twisty Journey. Wow,
I was This is my researcher Mary mclashan's suggestion, and
I was just like, I feel really seen right now.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I feel really cared for it right now for sure. Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Okay, right, So the main source of today's research is
reporting by a journalist named Jeff Maish, and that includes
a Smithsonian Magazine article that he wrote called The Counterfeit
Queen of Soul, which is heavily sighted throughout what I'm
about to read you. He also did an episode of
our friend Phoebe Judge's podcast Criminal in twenty twenty three,
(13:59):
and that episode is called The Impersonator, and the rest
of the sources are in our show notes. Okay, So
it all starts in the early forties when Mary Jones
is born in West Petersburg, Virginia. It's a small town
about thirty miles south of the state capitol of Richmond,
and like so many incredible vocalists, Mary gets her start
singing in the choir of her Baptist church. It's here
(14:22):
that her reverend, a man named Billy Lee, takes note
of her incredible talent. Mary has a phenomenal, soulful voice
and she's undeniably gifted. So Reverend Lee forms an all
black gospel group called the Great Gate, and they perform
at churches around the region, and the reverend will later say, quote,
I had to teach most of the folk in my groups,
(14:45):
but there was one young lady I did not have
to teach soul end quote, and that young lady is
Mary Jones. Mary spends six years performing with the Great Gate,
and as she does, she sharpens her vocal skills by
listening to Aretha f. Franklin records.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Just like me, Oh my god, I didn't get better.
I just kept singing the same.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Way her, kind of like an Annie sings Aretha Franklin.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
For context, this is the mid nineteen sixties. Now Aretha
is She's huge. Of course, in nineteen sixty seven alone,
Aretha Franklin released Respect, Natural Woman and Chain of Fools,
just to name a few of the string of her
mega hits, like incredible songs one after the other. So,
(15:33):
of course Mary Jones really admires Aretha, and as Jeff
Mays notes, quote, Aretha Franklin was a role model for
so many women in that culture because she made it.
She was scouted it in a church. She'd been spotted
singing gospel and had gone on to become an incredible success, gold,
Platinum Records, Grammys. She had all the trappings of success,
(15:55):
the limousines, the fancy frocks.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
She was a superstar on.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
The front cover of magazines Endote. There's also an amazing
clip where she walks on stage and drops her fur
like she's wearing in this insane fur coat, and then
she just kind of like drops it like it's an
old robe, and you're just like, you're like, you're the queen.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You are a queen. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So Aretha's music injects so much joy and soul into
Mary Jones life that she actually likes to run a
speaker out of her house and into her yard so
that the people who live nearby can listen with her
as she sings along and belts out Aretha tunes. And
if you know Aretha's music, there's real heartache at the
(16:38):
core of a lot of it, and Mary's life was
no different. By nineteen sixty nine, twenty seven year old
Mary has been widowed once, then divorced from her second husband,
who was an abusive alcoholic. So now she's raising four
young sons as a single mom.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Oh my god, like not even thirty. Yeah, four young sons.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Sing sing sing self, sus your supper, get it out, Yeah,
exactly as you're saying. So to earn some extra money,
Mary starts taking gigs at local nightclubs, But because she's
a very deeply committed member of her church, she has
to keep that part of her life a secret. People drink, dance,
listen to blues music at these clubs. Who knows what
(17:21):
they get up to, but it's jazz, cigarettes, jess cigarettes, hugs.
It's all the things the Baptist Church does not approve
of for people's lifestyles. So when Reverend Lee finds out
about Mary's double life, he sneaks into a venue called
the mouse Trap to watch her sing a set Oh Dear.
The reverend sits in the dark corner stone colts sober,
(17:44):
of course, and he prays that what he watches Mary do,
what she's about to do, will not disappoint him. He
tells himself, quote, don't lecture her, don't preach to her.
She'll be all right. End quote. Mary has no idea
he's there, and what Reverend Lee sees that night is
a shock. She's introduced as Vicky Jane. Sometimes she goes
(18:06):
as Vicky Jones. Also she walks on stage wearing a
wig and a costume that all but completely disguised church
going Mary Jones, and she has morphed into an absolute diva.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
With a backing band.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Mary begins to perform all of the great Aretha Franklin hits,
and she sounds exactly like her. Wow. The crowd goes nuts,
and we can only assume the Reverend did too. Oh
my god. So then in January of nineteen sixty nine,
Mary performs at a club in Richmond called the Pink Garter.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
These names are great. I mean, you know, the Reverend
didn't go to the Pink Garter. No, he wouldn't ever
the mouse Trap. He can justin that's Trap's okay, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And that show changes the course of her life because
there she has a chance encounter with a singer named
Lavelle Hardy. So Lovell is a twenty four year old
singer from New York City. He's a hairdresser by trade,
but he's trying to break into the music business and
he has had some success. In nineteen sixty eight, he
released a record that Jeff Maish describes.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
As quote a minor hit in the UK end.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Quote, but the act that really gets him booked the
most is the one where he sports a six inch
pompadour and impersonates James Brown.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So Lavelle's situation is very similar to Mary's in that
they're both making money covering the hit songs of famous vocalists,
but there's a key difference. Jet Magazine later estimates that
where Mary earns around ten or twenty dollars on a
good night, which is worth around sixty in the sixties,
ten to twenty one hundred and fifty close eighty five
(19:46):
to one hundred and seventy. Wow, you're in the pocket. Okay,
So that's how much she would be getting, Lavelle makes
two hundred a night, Oh my god, which is seventeen
hundred dollars in today's money. Yeah, that's pay your bill's money.
That super pay your bills money. And it's like, was
he better singer than her? Right? I wonder why he's
making so much more than her? That's weird. So tonight,
(20:08):
at the Pink Garter Club in Richmond, Virginia, Lavelle watches
Mary absolutely crush it on stage. He is blown away
by her ability to channel Aretha both vocally and visually.
Lavell will later say, quote, She's identical from head to toe.
She's got the complexion, she's got the looks, she's got
the height, she's got the tears, she's got everything. Wow.
(20:30):
As Lavelle witnesses the incredible talent that is Mary Jones,
he senses an opportunity. He wants to take Mary on tour,
but not as Vicky Jane or Vicky Jones. He knows
that he can make way more money, way faster. So
for context and just for the young people who forget
the years before the Internet, they did exist, there was
(20:52):
a time where you couldn't just look someone up with
a click of a button. For most fans back then,
in like the fifties and sixties, knowing what your favorite
musical artist looks like would basically be based on their
album covers, maybe a three minute set on TV, maybe
pictures and magazines. If they're lucky enough to be able
(21:12):
to afford a ticket, they might be able to go
see them in person. But for the most part, fans
recognize their favorite performers by their voices. So someone's voice
sounds like a well known artist, and they even slightly
resemble them, it's not hard to pass them off as
that famous performer back then. And for what it's worth,
(21:34):
Mary didn't think she looked like Aretha Franklin. Jeff mas
couches that she looked enough like Aretha for the scheme
to work. But Mary was not like a dead ringer
for Aretha. It wasn't like it wasn't a full impersonation
in that way, like you had to have not known
exactly what she looks like to believe it. Yes, and
the kind of I think it's in a testament to
(21:56):
the power of her voice, because it would be like
is that and then she'd start singing, and then they
wouldn't even worry about it. Not only that, but as
the fifties and sixties is a time when many performers,
especially black artists, do not have enough legal power or protection,
so impersonators start popping up all around the black music scene,
(22:16):
billing themselves as the real deal to unsuspecting audiences.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So that, I guess is.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Like a common thing that happened back then. And because
you can make a lot of money off of a
good impersonator, some of them even eventually have connections to
organized crime, like a system starts being put in place
of how to find these people and how to like
exploit and put these people on tour and everything like managing.
But it's shady.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
So in his Smithsonian magazine article, Jeff Maish mentions a
guy named Roy Tempest, a London based promoter who collaborated
with the New York Mafia to employ quote the world's
greatest singing postman, window cleaners, bus drivers, shop assistants, bank robbers,
and even a stripper unquote.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Do you want to go to that party?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Well, they were to pose as bands like the Temptations
during European tours.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Okay, yeah, so there may be.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Even a step further away, and so it's just like
all these wildly talented people that are like, Okay, we'll
send you over there. You'll be the Temptations, amazing crazy.
In other cases, the dupes are actually sanctioned by the
industry itself. One famous example of that is in nineteen
fifty five in Alabama, when James Brown is sent to
(23:30):
fill in for a double booked Little Richard. At the time,
both artists share the same booking agent, so it basically
became James Brown's job to impersonate the more famous Little Richard.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
When he couldn't be there.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
But there was one show where the audience caught on
and they got really angry and James Brown was literally
performing backflips to appease them, like I'll just entertain you
in another way.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Can you imagine going to a show and like you're
mad that James Brown is the fucking like a stand in?
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yes, it's the It's like the kind of people who
there's a lot of people who they go to a
concert and they're only there for the band that they
want to see. But there are the people who are
love music and they're like, I could be there the
first night that the next James Brown, you know exactly, Yeah,
you want.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
To see that, you be there for me to not
talk over the opener, is what we're saying, Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So Lavell Hardy seems convinced that when it comes to impersonators,
Mary Jones is the best of the best, But the
night he sees her, that first night at the Pink Garter,
he lays low and he comes to her next show
the following weekend at a Richmond venue called the Executive
Motor in so Sexy.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Sexy, Oh Wow, did they have a tee bone steak night.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
You can kind of have steak and then Aretha Franklin's there.
So after Mary sat that night, Lavelle approaches her and
asks if she'd be interested in touring Florida with him.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Mary turns him down.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
She has hardly enough money to feed her family, let
alone by a bus ticket out of state. It just
doesn't seem worth it to her, so Lavelle won't take
no for an answer. He then calls Mary at her house,
impersonating a booking agent for the real Aretha Franklin, and
he offers Mary one thousand dollars to perform six shows
in Florida as Aretha's opening act. Okay, six one thousand dollars,
(25:26):
we're gonna go. Do you know?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Do you have it?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Asking me to do long division?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
No, I'm asking you if you have the number. I
guess it. Oh yes, I do have it.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I thought you were saying, like how much would that
be a night where I'm like, oh my god, No, no, no,
I would never.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I would never and I won't ever, even though you
asked me about Jewish holidays earlier, I would never.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah. Right, you could have really countered right there and
gotten your revenge.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I'm gonna go seven thousand, eight thousand, Wow, really close,
which is great money.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
It's like such great money doing what you love in
the songs of a person you adore.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That's that's like a dream. And when I hear for
four Sons, I just I can't help but think about
how much my one brother, my one skinny ass brother
ate when he was a kid. That would put like
the groceries would be gone the first night because of
my brother's yes, appetite, Yes, so have four that time's
four is fucking expensive.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
So expensive. Yeah, So it's good money. It's Mary's dream
come true. Singing on the same bill as her idol.
You know, it's a payday. It's everything. My thing is this,
And it's like when stuff like this happens, it's hard
to be kind of a critical thinker. But why would
anybody hire you to sing Aretha Franklin songs before Aretha
(26:41):
Franklin comes out and sings her songs?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I wonder if that was like a thing?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Then no, like one more time and now one more
time the real.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I think it steps on it a little bit of
a question that one would ask.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
It's like if you had two comics and like one
was more famous and the first one did the exact same,
and they're like, Okay, here it is again, but like better. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
You'd just be like, I think I actually like the
first guy. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
So, as Jeff Mash notes, quote, she'd never seen Mary
had never seen that amount of money in her life,
so she went for it. She decided to take a
risk and go open for the real Aretha Incredible. So
Mary leaves her kids with her mother and goes to
a local lending company to borrow the bus fare. Yeah,
(27:29):
and she makes her way down to Melbourne, Florida. I
wonder if they pronounce it Melbourne. Yeah, I wonder, I think, sir,
I wonder. But when she arrives, she learns that Lavell
does not work for Aretha Franklin. Mary's not going to
be opening for Aretha Franklin. Instead, she'll be impersonating the
Queen of Soul for oblivious audiences. Mary refuses to comply.
(27:53):
She would later say, quote that Lavelle threatened to throw
me in the bay. Holy shit, she does not how
to swim, And he said to her, quote, your body
can easily be disposed.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Of in the water.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Oh my god. Yeah, so she has no choice. Oh
how terrifying.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Not only that, but she does not have the money
for the bus fare home.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I was just thinking that, like she got enough, she
thought she was going to get paid, so she'd pay
for the bus ride.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Oh my god, horrible. Yeah, and the trick of I'm
going to live my dream. So you're not really focusing
on like what if something bad happens, You're like, here
I go totally. So, now she's in an unfamiliar southern
state as a black woman in the sixties.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
You're not going to fucking a hitchhike home.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
No, it's logistics, it's personal safety. Mary has no recourse.
She's forced to go along with Lavelle's scam, and it works.
It works so well that Lavelle starts shopping quote unquote
Miss Franklin around venues in small Florida towns, claiming to
be her agent. He offers a book Wretha Franklin for
(29:01):
just seven thousand dollars a night, which would be worth
about twenty two one hundred sixty thousand dollars. That's what
I meant. I know, today's money. I'm at twenty two thousand, Yeah,
twenty two thousand, but it's sixty and even then it's
a steep discount from what the real Aretha is charging
(29:23):
a night, which is more around twenty grand a night,
which would be how much today? Three sixty one seventy
one hundred and seventy thousand dollars she was making Holy
shit bank. So there's a guy that's like, do you
want to come to a small intimate show with right?
You know, I think that they would question it too, right, right,
(29:43):
But they did it. But I think it's a thing
of like suddenly someone's going, do you do you want
to go do the thing that you really want to
do and would love to do it's real cheap, and
you're like, yeah, i'd love to that.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Maybe the owners like knew also we're in on it also,
and then just didn't tell the patrons.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Right now, Absolutely it could could be. I mean they're
gonna make bank because there's probably a lot of mob
business going around there right where it's like, yeah, you
can lie to me, right, just like hey, it's nice
to have a sellout night. It's nice to get some
consistent money and sell all your drinks and you know,
tip your waitress.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah please.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
So Lavell puts together a tour of small black clubs
in Florida that he calls quote the Aretha Franklin Review.
At her first gig, Mary goes on stage in a long,
yellow gown that Lavell buys for her. It looks like
a cheaper version of something the real Aretha Franklin might wear.
She also wears a wig and very heavy makeup, but
it's her voice that makes it all work. Mary performs
(30:43):
as Aretha like her life depends on it, because she
thinks it does. The audiences are completely fold Jet Magazine
reports in nineteen sixty nine, quote when she sang the
second song, baby Baby, Sweet Baby, they roared as one.
That's her, That's Aretha. They gave her a standing ovation.
At the end of the set, she's.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Being held hostage, enforced and she's like, okay, watch this.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, she's well, there's nothing you can do about terrifying.
And then she's actually getting to do a thing where
she gets the jolt, she gets the feeling, okay that
some of us are lucky enough to know where you're like,
oh yeah, felt that. When Mary gets off stage, Lavelle
doesn't want anyone to get too close of a look
(31:32):
at her, so in case, they put two and two together,
so she's rushed out of the venue. She's rushed to
a cheap motel room. Lavelle gets her a hamburger, and
just like hold her over to the next show, he
doesn't give her any of the money that they earn
that night, so she basically still has no way to
get away.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Even if she wants.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
She's been kidnapped, yes, and this is how the tour starts.
Once Mary performs a string of successful shows, Lavelle starts
to get cocky. He decides to book Mary at bigger
venues in larger towns, including the fourteen hundred seat High
Hat Club in Fort Myers, where this story began. That
show sells out, but it's a bigger town and there
(32:12):
are more people in this crowd who have already seen
Aretha Franklin perform live. So when Mary steps on stage,
there are murmurings that something seems off. And Mary must
have sensed this energy because she gets nervous, and she'll
later say, quote, I wanted to tell everybody beforehand that
I was not Miss Franklin, but Lavelle said the show
(32:34):
promoters would do something awful to me if they learned
who I really was. Fuck yeah. So Mary eventually settles
into the set and of course nails it once again.
Jeff Mash writes this in his Smithsonian piece, quote, the
hoodwinked conductor urged his band to play the Franklin song
since You've Been Gone, And as it always did, the
(32:56):
music transformed Jones. With every note, her fear melted away.
She closed her eyes and sang her powerful voice a
mixture of Saturday night sin and Sunday morning salvation.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Wow, it's such a good life.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Any doubters in the crowd were instantly convinced.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So that's like, this is a true talent. There is
a person who should be heard right and like in
whatever style that she wants to sing, the show is happening.
It's not like a person who's like, my face looks
like her and I've got the right wig. And then
it's also disappointingly kind of embarrassing, because there's, to me,
there's nothing really more embarrassing than like mid singing when
(33:37):
someone's just like here we go, but like really believes
in themselves. Yeah, that's why I don't believe in myself
and I would never try. That's the best when you
have a voice like mine, that's the best course of action,
you know, right. I know my attributes in singing is
not one of them. I mean, I feel like it's
not like I can't sing, I just knowing. But there's
so many people that are really real good at singing
(34:01):
where it's like, let them do it and I'll stay
in my front round. No, you're one of the good
ones I'm talking about. I'm not. It's not even like that.
I'm just saying it's great to be good.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
But then you've got people who aren't either Aretha Franklin
or exactly like Aretha Franklin or fucking Jennifer Hudson or
Kelly Clarkson, where you're like, yeah that, let them do
got it? Let them do it? Yeah, I don't want
to do karaoke.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
So this gets even riskier because this set goes off
without a hitch. So Lavel decides to up the ante.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Stop it. He can't stop it.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
He books a forty two hundred seat venue. Holy shit,
it's the Southeastern Livestock Pavilion in o Calla, Florida, you're
fucking no.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, which to pushing it.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
I feel like the Southeastern livestock pavilion. Oh the smell,
it's there's sawdust on the floor. Oh god, it's where
you show you sheep at the fair, Like, what are
we doing? How big is this place?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Get the four Ah Club out of here?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Because Aretha's because because Aretha's younger sister is coming out.
Oh my god. When o'calla hears that the Queen of
Soul is coming, they flip out. Jeff Mesh says, quote,
they stuck posters up all over town. DJ's were talking
about it in the local area, and it was going
to be one of the biggest.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Shows of the year. I can't do that. He got
too far out over his skis exact.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
But of course all this publicity has consequences. It turns
out the real Aretha Franklin is on vacation in Miami.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Fuck up, oh.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
No, And she's like, wait a minute. Even though this
is hundreds of miles south of Okaala, she even hears
about it, like it's that the murmurings of she's around wow,
and she hears the gossip about she's about to play
a live show in o'calla. Okay, so she calls her attorneys,
they call a prosecutor, and they call that prosecutor just
(36:02):
in time, because it turns out the prosecutor had two
tickets to the faker Retha Franklin show.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
So now investigators are on the case. They trace the
scheme back to Lavell Hardy, and at this point he's
booked nine shows in Florida as part of this Aretha
Franklin review. He's like, got to get that bag while
you can, sure fine in any way possible. So Lavelle
(36:31):
and Mary are both arrested and put in jail for
suspected fraud, and of course the story makes national news.
Lavell Hardy has handed false advertising charges and given a
five hundred dollars bond, which is about a four thousand
dollars bond today. Mary meanwhile tells police that she's not
in on this scheme. She's been kidnapped, she's been held
(36:53):
captive by Lavell, and that she's only basically been fed
a few hamburgers. Let me guess they don't believe her well,
to which Lavelle responds, quote, there wasn't anybody standing over
her with a gun and a knife. She wasn't forced
to do anything. And about those hamburgers, we all ate hamburgers,
not because we had to, but because they taste.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Good end quote.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Don't you think that's very just one of those personality
types where it's like, first of all, you're saying it's
no big deal and she wasn't forced. But now you're
arguing the weirdest point of this story. And now you're
like arguing it like that's also important, and if I
can prove that part wrong, then the rest of it
somehow wrong. That's not the case, right. Luckily, the prosecutor
(37:35):
believes Mary Jones and her side of the story, and
he the prosecutor later tells Jet magazine, quote, I wanted
to protect this girl. It was obvious she was a victim.
I asked her to sing like Miss Franklin, and she
did it in the courtroom, just like her. But she
has a sound and a style of her own. She
has talent too, no doubt about that. Wow, the prosecutor's
(37:58):
pretty moving. I know she's been taken advantage of. So
now Lavelle, who's been sitting on a ton of cash,
all the cash they made from these shows winds up
giving most of that money, which is around seven thousand dollars,
to an attorney, and that attorney then convinces prosecutors to
turn him loose and he immediately leaves Florida. That means
(38:20):
Mary never gets the money she was promised, or any
money at all for her performances, and so she doesn't
have any money to get a lawyer. But luckily she's
let off the hook by none other than Aretha Franklin herself.
Aretha only wanted Lavelle Hardy to be held criminally liable,
so she like, they come to her basically and say,
(38:40):
do you want to press charges? I guess, and then
she's like not against her. Yeah. But Mary's problems don't
end there because she's right back where she started. She
doesn't have a penny to her name, and now she
has no way to get back to her family in Virginia,
and this is where the story takes another turn. One
of the many people following this story is a white
lawyer from Jacksonville, Florida, and named Ray Green, and like
(39:02):
Lavelle Hardy once did, Ray clearly senses an opportunity with Mary,
but unlike Lavelle. He pitches himself as an above board
business manager, and he offers her a five hundred dollars
advance right on the spot so she can get back
to Virginia. Then he promises to take her on a
nationwide tour performing as herself. Okay, so it takes a
(39:25):
little while, but Ray is able to earn Mary's trust,
and within weeks of meeting him, Mary is booked on
her own tour and finally earning some serious money Ellyeah.
Performing under the name Vicky Jane. Mary gets as much
as fifteen hundred dollars a performance. And that is how
much in today's money. You already told me seven tell
(39:48):
me thirteen thousand dollars a show.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
And these audiences are excited to see the Aretha Franklin
impostor that they've been reading about in the news. That's
your y, God, you did it. No such thing as
bad press. So back in New York, Lavelle Hardy's trying
to stretch his fifteen minutes of fame. He gives an
interview declaring that he's looking for an agent, saying, quote,
the news is now nationwide and everybody wants to see
(40:15):
Vicky and everybody.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Wants to see me.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Oh my god. But as Jeff Mash points out, quote,
nobody cared about Lavelle Hardy after a week. This is
my favorite line. We're still in the quote. About a
week after his boast, he was back on stage at
the Pink Garter.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Oh all, he's taken back that old pink carter.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
You fall all the way back down to the Pink Garter. Mary,
on the other hand, is going strong. Several weeks after
first making the news, she then catches the eye of
the legendary Duke Ellington. Ooh. He recognizes her musical gift,
and he invites her on stage to sing with him
at a show in Florida. Shit. She wears that same
(40:57):
yellow dress she wore impersonating a earlier that year, and
a photographer snaps the picture of the two together, and
Jet Magazine uses it in a feature about Mary.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
That detail that she wore that dress is such a
great fuck you Yeah, it's so good. It's so good.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Duke Ellington becomes something of a mentor to Mary, and
he urges her to quote break out of the Aretha thing.
He even offers to write six songs for her. She's,
of course, very eager to get out of the shadow
of Aretha Franklin, and she desperately wants material that reflects
her own life, and she will later say quote, I've
got my own bag. The way I feel is that
(41:39):
people can buy Aretha for Aretha, and they can buy
Vicky Jane for Vicky Jane. It's going to be hard,
but nothing's going to stop me from making it as
a singer. I want to do songs strictly about me,
how I got started, and how I love. Everything I
write will be based on my life. I think people
will be interested and yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
They really are.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Mary is now flying on jets for the first time
to do shows in places like Las Vegas.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Jet magazine also reports that in early March of nineteen
sixty nine, quote, a hungry singer in Richmond, Virginia is
pretending to be Vicki Jones, and she did brisk business
for a time.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Mary Jones gets her own impostor Amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
So Mary tours for a year and earns some serious cash,
but back at home, her mother is no longer able
to care for her boys, and they wind up living
with Mary's ex husband. He wastes no time in telling
the children that their mom abandoned them and that she'd
never come back for them. Mary's son, Gregory, becomes so
distraught that he changes the station anytime in Aretha Franklin
(42:45):
song comes on the radio.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
But when Mary.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Gets back to her hometown of wes Petersburg, she's there
for a performance and she's eating at a local diner
when two of her sons run into the restaurant. The
boys see their mom and they scream for her, and
the waiter tries to shew them away, thinking that they're fans,
and Mary yells, hey, those are my babies. And this
(43:08):
whole experience is so awful for her that she quits
her singing career.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
On the spot.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Wow. She stays in Virginia, she fights to get full
custody of her sons, and she devotes the rest of
her life to raising them. Oh my god, she just stops.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Mary Jones never takes the stage again. She goes back
to living a private life. She died in the year
two thousand and in her late fifties, and her incredible story
fades into obscurity. And then decades later, writer Jeff Mash
stumbles upon the story. He tells Phoebe Judge of the
Criminal Podcast quote when her son Gregory agreed to talk
(43:47):
about his mother, he was so emotional and so happy
that someone finally called him, because he'd obviously been telling
this story over the decades, but people wouldn't believe it.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Holy shit, I know.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
So, even beyond her brush with fame in the late
nineteen sixties, which is certainly extraordinary, Mary's boys remembered the
little things about their mother, how she sang her favorite
songs while doing stuff around the house and yes, they
were often Aretha Franklin songs, Or how she kept her
issue of Jet magazine in which she was pictured with
Duke Ellington as a reminder that her sons could quote
(44:22):
be anybody they wanted to be. Jeff Mash adds quote,
Mary's sons told me that she wanted to be Aretha
so much, but they always saw her as mom. They
just loved being around their mom. By the late nineteen sixties,
right around the time Mary was forced to perform in Florida,
American households started getting color TV on mass and access
(44:44):
to shows like Soul Train, which regularly featured motown superstars,
making ripping off performers all the more difficult, and today,
of course, with the Internet and social media and everything,
the once viable imposter scheme is pretty much all but
impossible to pull off. And that's the incredible story of
Mary Jones, a world class vocalist worth.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Remembering for who she was. Holy shit, how about that?
How about that?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Merry Christmas? Happy hannahs a miracle? Oh my god, light
a candle for Mary Jones? Right, Jesus right, I've never
heard that. That is incredible.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I've never heard that. I can't make see the photos. Yeah, wow,
great job, thank you, great solo story. Right, it gave
us everything it had to be. It had to be,
you know, solo. It was meant to be as she's
supposed to be solo as well. That's right. Wow, all right, well,
great job, Thank you so much. Thank you guys all
(45:46):
so much for listening. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I hope you're either having a great holiday, that you
had one already, that you're going to have one for
the next eight days.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Or listen, maybe a great New Year instead.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
That's fine. Yeah, you might need to just go out
in the woods somewhere and not have any holiday at all.
That sounds great, That sounds not for me.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
But perfect, do what you need to do. We're here
for you unless you don't want us to be.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
That's fine too.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah, we'll leave you alone. You want to shut your door,
we could totally leave you alone. Honey, come downstairs. You
know you don't have to. Don't have to stay in
your pajamas like we support it.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
We love you in whatever room you're in. I told
Nora that one time.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Oh, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Lohiam Elvis,
Do you want a cookie?
Speaker 1 (46:37):
This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer
is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producers Hannah Kyle Crichton.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
This episode was mixed by Leanna Scuillachi. Our researchers are
Maren mcclashan and Ali Elkin. Email your hometowns to my
Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at my Favorite
Murder boyebye