63 - Steven's Tuxedo

Quit your job, get a spiral notebook, and listen to this week's My Favorite Murder. Karen and Georgia cover the crimes of the demonic Joseph Edward Duncan III and the Coen Brothers-esque Fred Neulander.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Him like that. Most Stephen is looking at his knobs
very concern, intently and concern, almost like a DJ. He
did look like Steve, okay, kind of you look like.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
A Las Vegas DJ, being like, what about the trouble?
What about the base? Have you done any DJing? Stephen
in Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Can't say have But it's the dream, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Is that? Is that where you're aiming?

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Is that the goal to be on one of those billboards?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yes, DJ Steve, what would what would you? What's the
better DJ name for Steven?

Speaker 1 (00:54):
DJ Mustache, DJ Stash, Oh, DJ Stash coming this fall? Yeah?
What if it's Elvis and Stephen?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Elvis is don't shove Elvis into this. This is Stephen's
project for Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Sorry, Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Elvis gets up and the moves like scratches the record himself.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, oh, Elvis, anything to say about that? He came
to the mic on the night He's about to fucking m.
Elvis is the MC.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
With a lot of intent.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Stephen is the DJ. Elvis is the MC. Speaking of
Elvis and Stephen, we have a corrections corner because last week,
glaringly missing from the episode was both Stephen and Elvis,
because Steven thinks he can take a fucking vacation and
fucking walk away from this thing that we were going

(01:47):
to give you a shit about it.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Steven, the unpaid intern that does the most work of
anyone on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
He thinks he can go visit his mother, he.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Can visit family, that he can stay behind in port Nope,
do whatever he wants in Portland.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Don't worry. He begged us to come back.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
And we were like, we'll talk, we'll talk it through. Yeah,
so this is his trial episode.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, and Elvis will like refolted because he was like, well, so,
well that means we recorded at the Feral Audio studios
and like when I got there, I was like, wait
a minute, Elvis isn't here. So he did. He wasn't
on either, But don't worry. He's fine.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
A lot of concern, a lot of social media concern
for Elvis. He's very healthy. He's here in front of us,
flicking his tail around as we speak.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, and they were like, are Georgia and Karen okay
because they're not yelling at Steve in this episode. Yeah,
They're like, this is all very uncomfortable, but everyone's fine.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Somebody was like, does your mom yell at you, like, Karen, do.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
You miss it?

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Of course, did you miss getting reprimanded for shit that
you had nothing to do it for? Shit?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
That is clearly our fault.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
I did do the I did do you My favorite
word of related activity I say, yeah, I went to
Klein Falls, which is the subject of one of the
live yeah yes, which was like it was eerie because
I had never done anything like that, like visited the
site of something. But my mom is like, oh, it's
just up the road from where I live, Like, Okay,

(03:16):
I guess I'll take pictures because people might want to
see this.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
But it changes the view when you know that someone
got fucking bludgeond by a hatchet there so crazy. Yeah, well,
welcome back, Stephen. Yeah I was glad.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
We're glad you're back. Yeah, we're glad you're back.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
So real quick, I want to do March Corner. We
have a new design. It's a really cute kind of
a cursive awesome thing. It says sweet baby Angel or
sweet baby Angle. You can pick which one you want,
because of course I always say sweet baby Angel. But
then one hometown murder misspelled angel for angle, and then

(03:52):
it's fucking gone from there, so go to my Favorite
Murder Shirts dot com. It was designed by our friend
Kirsten Bencomo, who's from the print people where we print
all our shits. She's fucking awesome, and yeah, pick sweet
Baby Angel or Sweet Baby Angle and we have like
fucking onesies now and phone cases and all these crazy
shit tope bag, Hope bags, mugs.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
And what I like about the Sweet Baby Angel or
Angle shirts is that there's so many color choices.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, like surprising amount of color choices. Yeah, very cool.
It's a fucking cute shirt. And I think it's like,
if you wear it and people don't know what it is,
they won't know. But if they know, they know.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yes, that's right, it's a less overt murder you know shirt.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Definitely, it's very cute.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
It is very cute. I do have a thing that
it's neither it's a new corner, but it's almost like
an announcement corner. But it just feels like I've heard
from enough people online. You and I have talked about
it enough, so this feels like a thing that just
needs to be said, which is more like this. We

(04:57):
love touring, we love doing live shows have the best time.
It is such an amazing thing to come out to
a wall of energy and people's positivity. It's the best.
Ninety nine percent of the people that go to our
shows and participate in our shows are lovely, joyous people

(05:18):
who are having a great time. We heard from a
bunch of people from Portland who didn't have the best
time at a couple of those shows because there were people
around them that were yelling so much at us the
entire show. And there has been a thought that has
been floated in the community that we like it when

(05:40):
people yell at us from the audience during the show,
because then it's a chance for me to yell at people,
or for us to make jokes about it, and just
for corrections, just no hard feelings. We've always had a
great time, we will continue to have a great time,
but just so you know, we don't like it when
you yell at us at all during the show. And

(06:01):
it's gotten to a point now where we just have
to completely ignore people. There was a show in Portland
that was crazy. There were people in the audience that
were yelling at us literally the entire time, and it
was there are people around them bumming out.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
So what do we do. We can't if we say
something to them then that they'll keep doing it.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
But we don't say anything.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
We don't say anything.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
What we do is this, we let people know that
we love your energy, that we love that you want
to participate, but please don't tell yourself we want you
to yell at us, because that is not true at all.
It's never been true. And for me being a stand
up comic for twenty years, when you get a heckler
in an audience, you shut the heckler down because that's

(06:47):
how you perform a show of comedy, that's how you
keep in control of the crowd. But you don't want
to be heckled. So just because comedy comes out of it,
it doesn't mean that's a positive experience for anybody. And
it certainly ruins the time of the people around you.
Like there was a couple people during one of those
shows and it was just constant commentary the whole time,

(07:10):
and it's not pleasant and we now just ignore.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
It as someone is kind of new at this whole
on stage thing. It's really distracting to like, to keep
being distracted by this when I'm trying to, like concentrate
on being a good performer and telling my story well
and not being nervous and you know, sitting up straight,
not accidentally flashing my underwear, and you know.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, and we really have worked. It's not like anyone
can say this is any kind of like we're not
doing crowd work. We're especially by the time we sit
down and we're reading our stories, we have a presentation
that we want to give to everybody, and that everybody
wants to hear. At ninety nine point five percent of
the people in the room want to hear what we're saying.

(07:55):
So if you were the person that got drunk and
couldn't stop yelling, or you thought it would be funny
to yell or talk to us, just know no, you know,
no one's mad at you. Everything's fine, But yeah, we
absolutely don't want that to be happening. So just as clarity,
it seems like there was people in the audience in

(08:16):
Portland who were upset because they paid good money and
they waited just as long and they're just as big
of a fan as anybody going crazy who can't control
themselves and yell the whole time. Well, there's people around
you who are just as big of a fan and
yet they're controlling themselves. We understand where it's coming from.
And believe me, I saw when I saw the kids
in the hall live at the UCLA Theater, I wanted

(08:40):
to scream Chicken Lady the entire time. I wanted them
to know what I liked. I wanted them to know
what was in my mind and heart. I wanted them
to understand how you were. Yeah, because there's a big
deal to me, and it meant a lot to me.
So honestly, the fact that there are people having those
feelings toward us, it's my dream come true. It's it's
we take it the way you mean it, but we

(09:02):
would love to not have to deal with that.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
You being there is enough. Can I do new podcasts
that I like Corner please? But I'm worried. Okay, So
I found this. I found this podcast because I was
We're going to Milwaukee and I was doing a lot
of research into Milwaukee murders. So stop me if you're
working on this.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Oh I'm not. I'm gonna stop you by telling you
I'm not working on anything, So go for it.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Great. So I found this one because it was such
an interesting story and I'm like, how have I never
heard about this before? And then, as I do with
every story that I want to read, I put in
the name and podcasts because I don't want like Sword
and Scale to have done it a week ago, and
I seem like a fucking asshole, right, So I did
this one and I found this podcast called Unsolved, and

(09:48):
it's about this kidnapping and murder of this kid named
John Zira back in nineteen seventy six, and they never
found the guy, but they may be found this there's
all these suspects and of course it's it's just like
the Johnny Gosh story where it's like, look how bad
this was bungled because we didn't know how to refine people.
And there's two different districts and they interviewed people and

(10:13):
didn't follow through. And then this guy later turns out
to be this child bluster and is it him? Isn't
it him? Is it not him? But it's a good podcast,
and it's every episode is really short, and it's by
another awesome female investigative journalist, which I really stoked that
there's so many of those lately, so many, and you know,

(10:33):
so it gives it a little bit of Yeah, so
it's a good one. So unsolved unsolved. Yeah. And then
you were telling me about one that I started listening
to called Hollywood and Crime. Yeah, what's that one?

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Okay, so Hollywood and Crime is about And I did
a thing finally, I thought I pre thought it out
and downloaded all the episodes before I got.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
On the plane. So I don't do that.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
It makes me crazy. You get on the plane like final,
I'll listen to the thing. Now you haven't downloaded it,
you can't know.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
And then while we're taking off, I'm like, take it
off airplane mode and try to download every episode and
then I crashed the plane.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
And then or try to buy Go Go Inflight, which
is just a bunch of bullshittal.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
I hate Go Go Inflight so much. Any any airplane.
Wi Fi is such a scam.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
They're taking twenty seven dollars directly out of your bank
account and they're like, okay, good luck with that Wi
Fi thirty thousand feet in the air. That being said,
see as we grow and change, I pre downloaded eight
episodes of Hollywood and Crime. And they're so proud, filled
with pride, and what it is is during the Black

(11:43):
Dahlia Murder, which happened in nineteen forty forty.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Four, four, six, nine something seven.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
In the forties. It definitely happened to be the forties.
Steven will jump on it. But the interesting thing is
there were other female murder mutilations around Los Angeles at
the same time that people don't talk about, and so
it strings together all of these different cases and it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
And how they're related. I only listened to like ten
minutes of the first episode and already was like they
both worked at the same fucking nightclub.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yes, there was definitely at least I'm I think I
was up to the fourth episode, and I'm like, there's
one hundred percent like a slashy face killer in Los Angeles,
and it was because it was their slashy face killer,
the slashy face killer world War Two. They don't.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
That's the thing about it. I was thinking, is like,
there's so much shift during World War Two that nobody
paid attention to because the news was filled with World
War two.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
World War two constantly, and most the boys were being
shipped out and coming back and that whole thing around
There was a thing called the Hollywood Canteen, which was
where the Formosa down on Formosa I think, or somewhere
in Hollywood proper, where active duty soldiers would go and
they would get to dance with actresses like Betty Davis

(13:05):
used to run it. And so you could go there
and like I think that alcohol wasn't allowed, and you
couldn't like have any romantic like romance wasn't going to
be like.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
You'd pay for a slow dance or any kind of dance.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Well, I don't think you had to pay because because
you were. That was the whole idea, is like if
you're active duty but you're on leave, you can come
to the Hollywood Canteen and like basically party with celebrities
and it's all on us.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
And all the ladies thought they were like doing a
service for this serviceman, that's right, And it.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Was and she and uh black Dollar, Elizabeth Smart, Nope,
Elizabeth Short.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
God, I now, I don't know. It's the mix of like, wait,
one of those.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Is hardest modern short is old.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Right. Uh.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
She went there and so did a couple of these victims.
One of them is called the Bathtub It was called
the Bathtub Murder, and it was this who had a
lot of money. This young woman. She went to the
canteen a lot and she was found in a bathtub
full of bloody water and her face. I believe her

(14:11):
face was cut.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Because Elizabeth Short was drained of blood and they thought
it was done and they surmised it was done in
a bathtub, right.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
I think so, or they definitely know it was not
it was They had her somewhere for a long time, right.
That's the horrible part of that murder is that she
was tortured for a long time. And the person that
killed her and may have killed these other women is
the worst serial killer ever and they never caught it.

(14:41):
And if they're not related that it's such an insane
coincidence that these murders were happening all around the same time.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
I hate how normal her autopsy photos are getting. Were
like you click on cold case file or cold cases
and you click on images and it's just a close
up of her face. Have you seen that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:59):
It's a horrible cutting.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, And it's just like you don't even put in
like black dollia mart you know, like and you see
these like crime scene photos, it's rough, and I fucking hate,
you know, I love crime scene photos. I bought a
fucking book called like crime Scene Photos basically when we
were in.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Portland to prove how much you love crimes.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I just wanted to prove it. No, but it's actually
I kind of fucked myself up because it was vintage
crime scene photos. I was like, great, it'll be like
mobs and mobsters and like that kind of thing, good outfits.
Yeah it's not. It's horrifying. Oh it's very graphic. Oh no,
it's not late night reading.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
And it's vintage in terms of like it was back
when people would die of horrible things, right, like rabies
or something.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well, there's there are rabies ones.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Actually, the rabies ones are the worst thing of all.
There's just it's it's it's more like horrors. But there's
a lot of deaths. There's like a whole page of
suicide hanging. We call them sex workers. What horror sex work?

Speaker 1 (15:57):
That was?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
That was very poorly time for what the next sentence was.
And I still said it, and I shouldn't have apologies.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I'm still laughing, and so is everyone else. You guys
were all creep.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Stevens laughing with both hands over his face and a
third hand came up. We don't know where it's from.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Mimi is cracking up.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
He loves it.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Uh suicides, hanging suicides, and there's a description. It's actually
I found out it's a like a Los Angeles police
detective's book of his cases that they turned into like
a coffee table book for people who don't get dates. Hey, hey,
watch it. We do fine people that love those. Vince

(16:38):
doesn't want to see it. There's a guy with elephantitis.
The nuts and vits wanted to look at that. It's
pretty fucking fabulous.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Oh man, Yeah, that's a good book. I mean, I
that's the kind of thing. The reason I don't look
at those pictures anymore is because in the nineties, when
I was, you know, a riot girl or whatever the
hell I thought I was doing, there were lots of
times where we would look through books like that, and
it's almost like a contest of like everyone like look
at this crazy thing and be like, well, I don't
even care, because Kirk Obain and I've seen things that

(17:08):
I can I still see it in my mind, like
the Childhood Died of Rabi's I can. I can see
it in my mind when I say that it's horrible.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
I can't too, but for some reason it makes me
want to like consume of it as much of it
as I can, so that so, you know, I just
want to look away. Yeah, yeah, so I know.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Hey, speaking that just reminded me. There is a movie.
Have you ever seen that? It's like kind of a documentary.
It's called Wisconsin Death Trip. Mm hmm, okay, it is
the best. I don't know, Stephen, have you seen it? No,
he just did the most hilarious nod. No no, no, no, no, no, no, oh,

(17:48):
don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
It is.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
They took a book I think it was just of
like the police blotterer from cities around Wisconsin in the
eighteen under it mid eighteen hundreds, I believe, and so
they just read the stories of what the police, you know,
what they were doing and what the crimes were. And
it's insane because it's just like today, except for it

(18:14):
was in the mid eighteen hundred. So it's like a
boy walked onto into a farm yard and shot the
two people standing there and walked away and they and
when the police arrested him, he said he was bored.
And then there's like mothers who go and drown their
children in the river and all these things that we
think are happening now and they're just oh, this time

(18:35):
we live in and it's so awful or whatever, and
it's like you gotta watch, you gotta watch Wisconsin Death Trip.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
It's just what are they? What are the video? What's
the video of the visuals?

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Are this really awesome Sepia toned like b roll that
they took all around because so much of Wisconsin is
really nature and farms and there's you know, so they
basically are just if it's if the crime is about
a person walking into a farm yard, they walk down
a road and they get like a little kid in
overalls holding a gun or what, but they don't. It's

(19:07):
not like act it's not total reenactments. It's just more
I feel yeah, right. And it was kind of creepy,
like a distant white farmhouse, you know that where it's
like it is creepy.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
I want to see that. You don't want to see
I do. Oh, I want to see.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
That thought you were like, nope, the farmhouse. I want
to shut me.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
I can't deal with kids and overalls really makes it
really triggers me.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
It's it's it triggers you about me and grammar.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
School about me? When I was a waitress and I
had to wear fucking overalls? Where this little cafe in
Santa Monica when I was like nineteen and they required
you to wear overalls?

Speaker 2 (19:41):
What full overalls or like an overall skirt dress?

Speaker 1 (19:45):
I think you could do whatever you wanted, but all
I had was like Dickey's overalls.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Was it a gas station restaurant, like one of those?

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Like it was country? It was like a country theme,
Oh restaurant? Yeah, can we do uh? A gift corner podcast? Yeah,
let's yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
No, no, no, no, okay, real quick sent a couple really
good presents.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, really quickly. We were opening presents before this. Scent
to the Polacks, Thank you guys so much.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Every Day's Christmas, my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yay, this is how we love you. This is how
to get us to love you. Okay. So we got
these incredible pins that are like the enamel pins that
everyone loves. One is like a closed switchblade, so cool,
it's so cool. One is a fucking Oigi board, little
enamel Oigi board with a movable what do they call these?
The movie part cursor cursor old fashioned cursor. It's a

(20:38):
it's a cursor one. And then there's one that says
sweet honesty, one says spuck politeness, which I'm putting on
a leather jacket. One that says slightly spooky, which I'm
guessed we said at some point in our lives.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Or maybe it's from another true crime podcast.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
She likes right or he okay, okay uh. It says
dear Georgia, Karen and Stephen, thank you for making the
best podcast in the world. We have no murders to
but wanted to gift you guys with some killer pins.
Fifty percent of the proceeds for the Sweet Honesty pin
goes to end the backlog. The rest of us are
just selfish. And then it's one of those emojis where
it's a smiley face shrugging, which I love so don't

(21:13):
know how to do what I love.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Thank you all so much by Crystal, Kim and Anna.
And it's the company is called fuck called Memento Mori,
Maury Ormento Mori. Yeah, so go and figure those things
out on Etsy because they're really cool. There's such nice pins. Yeah,
very cool, and we got a whole box full of them.
Thanks you guys, Thanks guys, nice designs. Good job hig five.

(21:39):
All right, let's do let's do the official nose blowing
great and then loving to start.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
I if I were a crafty person, yeah, I would
send you in the mail little like five little black
tablecloth handkerchiefs.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Okay, it's not gross, so to save your snot.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
It's super dis but it's a funny joke, referencing when
you when you blew your nose on the tablecloth.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
No, no, no, I get it now. I get it now.
I didn't understand.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Saving your song is beyond disgusting and makes no sense.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
But I did blow my nose on a tablecloth in Portland.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
That that did happen, so that would be It was
pretty goddamn great. I felt like everyone felt very freed
by that action.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I was as I was bending down to do it,
I was like, you should be humiliated while you're doing this,
and I didn't. No, it's just gone. Now.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
It's almost like we're just breaking down the rules of society.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, fuck you, mom, come to our love show.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
You won't believe what we do.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Tricks and things and blowing wise blown to shreds and
mine's blown, mines and laws blown?

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Uh you were me?

Speaker 1 (22:48):
I don't know me? Yes? Uh?

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Oh my gosh, what did Georgia?

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Because he did the Gorilla Killer?

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Oh that's right, Okay, I don't remember what I did
last week? Oh I do? No, I don't okay, all right,
Ready for a serial.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
I do you did the Moore's murders? Right? Crazy? And
then someone sent me a text saying, did you know
that the Smith's song Suffered the Little Children is about
the Moores murderers, right, which you kind of have? They
say their names in the song, do they? Yeah? Hinley?
He calls her Henley.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
And okay, oh that's so cool. Let's all listen to it.
That's her new theme is song Are they Gonna Sue Us?

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah? All right, Ready for a serial killer? I am
real horrible guy. Uh oh, here we go. Joseph Edward Duncan,
the Third, the Third, the way I looked to you
when I said that was born in February twenty on
February twenty fifth, nineteen sixty three, in Takama, Washington, and

(23:57):
I said that he looks like the actor Ben Mendelsohn,
who was the old or Brother from bloodline. Remember that
guy's got kind of a lisp, and he's like abroad
and he's like an actor and he's kind of.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Well hot bloodline. Was he the bad one? Yeah, he's
the one everyone's worried about. Yes, that guy's amazing.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, it looks like him, so like creepy skinny. Just
you have an idea, okay, like gangly.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
I like this describing what they look like.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, because you know, you think of a big fat
person and that's not who this person is, not like
a big rap big fat person, and he's not that.
He's like he says, fourteen roomy. Anyways, he kills children.
So in nineteen seventy six, he's fifteen years old and

(24:39):
he commits his first recorded sex crime. He at fifteen,
he rapes a nine year old boy a gun point.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Oh fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
I said I was going to raise at fifteen and
he was raping children at gun point?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Fuck yeah. What happened to him?

Speaker 1 (24:53):
I don't know, and I can't find a lot of
information on it, okay, so clearly not something horrible. Yeah,
hit his fucking head.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
I mean, and then he went to a boys. I mean,
it's like they go to juvie then they get raped.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
It's seem terrible and their mom like, oh, I don't
want to get as gross as I feel like it.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean, we really could say the worst things in
the world and be right.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Okay the following I want to say it, but it's
so horrifying that like I.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Say it and then Stephen will bleep it.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay. I read somewhere and maybe it was Ted Bundy's
mom or some like some killer's mom that like when
she would take him to go to the bathroom, she
would pinch his penis as a kid. I think that's
is that Ed Dean, So he wouldn't go I don't
know to like if he didn't do it, she would
get mad at him and pinch and it's like, how

(25:46):
do you not have a sexual, fucking sadist on your hands? Yes,
on your gross hands.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
On your filthy, disgusting hands.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
No, that's horrifying penis pinching hands.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I'm pretty sure that's Ed Deane's mother. She was out
of her and that's right.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Didn't he killed her? Right? Uh?

Speaker 2 (26:02):
No, she died of natural causes. He kept her in
the house and played with her body and then like
wore her face in the moonlight. Pretty sure, Sorry, Steve,
that's romantic.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Well shit, nipple belt yeah so unbleep now okay, yeah,
nipple belt is that him?

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, that's our guy.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Should we give a shout out to the girl who
is back? Man, we're gonna need to post this. But
like we got this like gift once and it was
a box and there were these like this like crocheted
belt in it, and we were like, okay, all right,
we're yarn crochet belt?

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Was that in Oakland? I think it was the Oakland Show?

Speaker 1 (26:38):
No? No, it was sent here? Oh sent oh yeah,
because then you guys left and I went to take
a photo of it, and as I'm looking through the lens,
I realized that it's a crocheted nipple belt and it's
like every different color nipples, like different races of nipples,
and it's and I just lost my mind in like joy,

(27:00):
like how creative. Like that's the description of Murderinos is
like our listeners is someone for a shade of fucking
multicultural nipple.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Belt a nibble belt, giving ed game the shout out.
Also the fact that you had to have that realization alone,
it's actually almost perfect because it's that like growing case horror.
Were we pulled that hang out, We're like, is it
a is it a cat toy? Like, we're just like
whipping it around.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
We had no idea, and then I it just made
me so happy when I realized how awful it wasn't
the hat cutest way.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, because you couldn't tell you had to. It was
like a magic eye poster. You really had to stare
at it for a while to understand the hideous dolphins.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
I gotta post it, okay anyway. The following year, Joseph
Duncan is arrested for driving a stolen car, and that's
when he's sentenced as a juvenile and sent to Disland's
Boys Ranch in Tacoma, which you'd know is probably a
hell whole nightmare. He tells his therapist when he's there

(28:01):
that he had bound and sexually assaulted six boys, and
he also tells a therapist that he had raped around
thirteen younger boys by the time he was sixteen.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, so he's a cereal rapist. Yeah, can you imagine
losing count? He said around thirteen boys? What does that
therapist fucking go home that night and drink?

Speaker 2 (28:23):
They're just saying now I become a sea Captain's bullshit.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
I'm gonna be a librarian. Now to the lighthouse, he said, goodbye.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
I'm gonna get a cat, you know, you know, maybe
just a ton of cats, like thirty cats. Yeah, just
pet him.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Just surround myself with cat.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
In nineteen eighty, still in Tacoma, he steals guns from
a neighbor and abducts a fourteen year old boy again
rapes him at gunpoint, and for that he sentenced to
twenty years in prison, but he's released on parole in
ninety four after serving fourteen years. Then he's arrested in
ninety six for a mayor for marijuana use, but he's

(29:01):
released on parole a few weeks later, but with new restrictions.
And then in ninety seven, he's around thirty four, he's
arrested in Kansas and returned to prison after violating the
terms of his parole, but he's released from prison three
years later in July two thousand with time off for good,
good old good good behavior. Cereal rapist. So be good

(29:24):
in prison, clean your fucking tray at the canteen at
at mess hall, and you can leave. So that okay.
So in the summer of twenty fourteen, he's accused him
lasting a six year old boy at a park in
Detroit Lake, Minnesota. But he's not captured until March of
two thousand and five, and he's held on fifteen thousand
dollars bond. So there's a dude who's a businessman from Fargo,

(29:47):
who somehow Duncan had become acquainted with, who helped him
post bail fifteen thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
I wonder what brand of pedophile he was. Y was
allegedly allegedly.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Businessman, Yeah, I mean very allegedly. Yeah. And if he wasn't,
he must fucking hate himself now true.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
What if he was just trying to be like a
good smart Yeah, here's a guy down on his luck.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Oh, he says he didn't. He said he didn't molest
a six year old boy at a park. So maybe
he didn't. And I'm gonna spend half of some people's salary.
You're getting out anyways, Duncan skips down.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Two months later, in two thousand and five, Coot and
Eye County, Idaho authorities discover the bodies of Brenda Groan, forty,
her boyfriend, and her thirteen year old son. They're in
their family home near Corde Lane and they've been bound
and died of blunt force trauma to the head. Wow,
and sorry. Brenda's two other children, Shasta who's eight, and Dylan,

(30:51):
who's nice.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
I hate this one so much. I know, it's so horrible.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay, I know. I almost didn't do it because it's
so bad. You have to do it on a love
of the shit out. But I didn't know that this
guy had so much background to him. I didn't. But
it makes perfect sense, of course he does. But oh
my god, oh my god. Yeah, it's just one of
those stories that you can't fucking believe is real.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yes, I can still see the TV when I was
watching the news and them showing the foot the CCTV.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Okay, yes, I totally. Now we're gonna say but you're
gonna give away tell your story and that we'll talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
But I saw it too, and it's it just burned
in my mind.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yeah. Okay. So Shasta is eight, Dylan is nine. They're missing.
They're missing from the house and the three others, the
three older people are dead, and so they issue an
amber alert and they comb the area and they can't
find the kids until six weeks later, in July two
thousand and five, Shasta is recognized from her amber alert

(31:54):
by a waitress and manager and two customers at a Denny's.
But then they're back in cord Delayne. Cordelaine, Is I
say it? Cordelaine. The workers freak the fuck out, immediately
phoned the police and they positioned themselves to prevent Duncan
from leaving. Police officers arrive at the restaurant. They arrest
Duncan without incident, and Shasta's taken them the hospital to

(32:15):
be reunited with her dad.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
And so the.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Footage we're talking about is them walking into the fucking
Denny's and she's got her arms crossed. She's like this
little blonde girl. He's this creepy looks like John Mendelssohn,
Ben Mendelssohn, and she's got her arms crossed, and it's
clear something is wrong. Yes, And you wonder if you
had seen that, would you have thought something was going
on too?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
They must have, because that many I remember reading about
the waitress coming to the table and being like, I
don't like to feel here. Are you okay?

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (32:46):
What's going on, and I think she waited, did he
go to the bathroom. Maybe there was some moments she
had with Shasta, I believe before where she was like,
this isn't good, and she called the police.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, what's so weird about it? Is you? I have
to wonder. They went back to the town they were from,
so everyone in that town must have known intimately both
Well maybe they didn't know who he was yet, but
what she looked like. Yes, So there was another sighting
of them, you know, in another state that they later
realized happened. And the woman who worked at the store

(33:20):
it was like a gas station, was like, I thought
it might be her, but I wasn't sure, so I
didn't do anything about it. And it's like, well, someone
in your town would have done something. And it also
tells you like, if you have a bad feeling about something,
don't worry about hurting the dad's fucking feelings. If this
child looks in distress.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
At least talk to one other person about it. Yeah,
if you don't send up every red flag you ever
feel bad feelings. But there's definitely if you're in tune
enough when you know something's wrong, you know what's wrong,
and trust yourself.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
I've always thought that, like, if I see a kid
who looks uncomfortable or in distress or not not feeling
like they're where they're supposed to be, it's okay for
me to go up to a kid and be like, hey,
what's your name? You know, like engage with the kid.
You know, I'm not a fucking dude, so it's not creepy,
But like, like, don't do that if you're a guy.

(34:14):
Tell a woman to do that, but you know, to
be like, what's your name? And if you fucking send
something is wrong. Like you can just tell by a
body language with a kid. Yeah, something isn't right.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
I mean there was there should be.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, I wish there was some kind of like set
process or keyword you know.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Whatever this.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, listen, write down everyone's license plate, every creepy dude's
writ license plate at all time.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Take the time you don't need to work, quit your job,
get a spiral notebook.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
Sit in front of a gas station.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
And just write down license plates for a while.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah done.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
But I got I adore that Denny's waitress, oh, I
just cause you know that first of all, if they
work to she's probably working the night she if she's
seen some looney tunes totally, you know, she doesn't call
the cops every time she sees a scraggly Now, Mendelsohn type, no,
we shouldn't involve that actor at all.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Poor guy. He's like, wait, what the fuck fuck you guy, No,
we just got him fucking cast on the lifetime movie
of this mother fucking case. You're welcome, Ben Mendelssohn creating work.
You're welcome. Blah blah blah blah blah. Hospital all right
here get here's where it gets awful. So Shasta tells
investigators that the night of her abduction, her mother had
called her into the living room from the bedroom where

(35:25):
she had been sleeping, and she saw Duncan. Like the
Duncan was like, call your kids in here right now.
She sees hint Duncan wearing black gloves and holding a gun.
He ties her mother's hands with nylon zip ties, as
well as the mother's fiance and her brother Slade. Then
he takes this Dylan Shastaan, her brother, her little brother
Dylan out out of the house. They get inside his

(35:47):
stolen rental car and then and then uh, Duncan goes
back into the house. She hears her mother's fiance scream
and then sees her injured older brother staggering away from
the entrance to the home, But she didn't witness Duncan
bludgeoning the three of them to death.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
He bludgeoned them to death.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Tied them up and bludgeon them. Fuck. When Shastas asked
where her brother Dylan is, she said, in heaven. There
may be some evidence down in the Lolo forest, because
that's where we were.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (36:21):
On July fourth, two thousand and five, Dylan's remains were
discovered at a campsite near Saint Regis, Montana. He'd been
sexually assaulted and then killed with a shot in the head,
after which his body had been burned, and Shasta fucking
witnessed the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Oh God, I know.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Duncan had also filmed Dylan's final hours, and duncan can
be audibly heard in the video, which was shown to
the fucking jury. Can you fucking imagine how much therapy
you need after that? Oh my god, saying the devil
likes to watch children suffer and cry. Shasta is also
repeatedly tortured and sexually assaulted but supposedly he falls in
love with her and decides to return her home, which

(36:58):
is why they were back in her tie.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
What the monster monster?

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah. Duncan later confesses that he had entered the home
while the family slept with the express intention of murdering
the parents and kidnapping the children. He claims he quote
wanted he wanted quote revenge against society for sending him
to prison for twenty years for sexually assaulting a younger
boy who was fourteen years old when he himself was
only sixteen year olds. So he wants revenge against society

(37:26):
for being sent to prison for sexually assaulting.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
For being a rapists.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yep, yeah, that's not clear thinking. No, it's not logical things.
And you're not taking responsibility for your actions. You're not
fucking You're not cool. You're Dougson.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
You're the devil.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
You're the devil. You're the Devil's Like, dude, calm down.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
The fuck Can you skip to the part where he
gets murdered in jail? Please tell me.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
The Devil's Like, hey, man, I hurt fucking corrupt attorneys.
Not yeah, sorry, corrupt attorneys.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Sorry crypt attorneys.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
So he subsequently charged with murdering Dylan as well as
the three other family members. During his incarceration, authorities are
able to link Duncan to the disappearance of Anthony Michael Martinez,
who was ten years old when he went missing on
April fourth, ninety seven, while he was playing with friends
in the front yard of his home in Beaumont, California,

(38:23):
A man approached the group asks for help finding a
missing kitten while holding out a photo of a cat
as well as a dollar bill, and two of the
children ran away in fear, and the kidnapper pulls a
knife out, grabs Anthony, and flees in a white car
with red pinstripes and no hug caps. After two weeks search,

(38:45):
Martinez's body is found nude and partially decomposed in Indio
on April nineteenth, ninety seven. He had been sexually assaulted
and bound with duct tape. A composite sketch is made
of the suspect and a partial fingerprint. The case goes cold,
and then when he is incarcerated, Riverside authorities are able

(39:06):
to match the partial fingerprint taken to Duncan, and so
they officially announce his connection. He pleads guilty in twenty eleven.
The plea agreement carries a mandatory life sentence, although he
won't get he won't get the death penalty for it
in California because he pleads guilty. Duncan also confessed to

(39:28):
two additional murders. Samijo White, eleven, and her sister Carmen Qbias, nine,
were lasting leaving a Seattle, Washington hotel to get cigarettes
at a nearby restaurant for an older brother. I know babies.
Police said that they don't they don't know whether the

(39:49):
girls ran away or victims of foul play at the time.
Of course, a fucking nine year old is running away
an eleven year old. Then on July six, ninety six.
That happened on July six ninety six. Then there remains
were found on February tenth, nineteen ninety eight, in Bothel,
Washington by a transient living in an abandoned barn. All

(40:11):
three murders occurred. What Duncan was on parole of those murders,
Duncan has only been charged in the California case. In all,
he's been convicted in the Hio for kidnapping and murder
of the three victims, for which he was giving six
life sentences in federal court for kidnapping Shasta and Dylan,
and for murdering Dylan. He was given three death sentences

(40:34):
in three life sentences, and in the state of California
for kidnapping murdering Anthony Martinez, for which he was given
two life sentences. Is he still in jail. He's still
in jail. He will be forever. Let me double check
really quickly if he's still alive.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, because he's still Oh how unless they are keeping
him in solitary confinement?

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Has he not been killed?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
How has he not been killed by inmates? That's like that.
He is exactly the exact ample of jailhouse justice type
of situation.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Look, I want to see his picture.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
No oh god, oh Steven, you better watch that mustache
because we're looking at a serious and doubting the mustache.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah, although murdering has got me a mustache, switchblade.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Car okaye it in check? Okay, yes, please do. Yeah,
he is the worst face.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Not only is he still alive, he's blogging from prison. Now.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Now I'm the one. Usually you're the one that's like this.
Now I'm the one that's like, somebody needs to fucking
kill that guy. That is, he should not be on
the planet anymore. He cannot be around human beings. He
he kills children, He hurts children on purpose. He videotapes
hurting children. Get the fuck off the planet. You're no

(41:57):
good anymore.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
No, you're fucking rotten. Fuck. Well, so he blogged. He's
a blog called the Fifth Nail, and it's something about
how like Jesus was crucified with fore nails and this
is the fifth nail. Some bullshit.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh, I know all about that fifth nail.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Phew. And so he can't blog from prison, but he
blogs out his day to day life as a sex offender.
But so he denies me a pedophile. But so he
sends his blog post in writing to people on the
outside who post it, and like there's some people out
there doing his fucking bidding. Probably pedophiles, right, probably other pedophiles.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, perhaps, Well either way, you shouldn't you should You're
no good, downright fucking piece of shit. It's so funny
that case, that little girl and the thing she went through. People.
I feel like anybody that was like conscious around that
time paid attention to anything around that time. It also

(42:56):
because it was early enough, so that there wasn't like nowadays,
there's so much awful shit going on, as we know
everywhere all the time. They're closing down nature, they're closing
down schools, they're closing down protecting people who need protection.
They're closing it all down. It's insanity. It happens every day.
But there was a time, and I used to think

(43:18):
about it a lot in the nineties where we had it.
We were just like fat cats. There was nothing going on.
It was before we got into that first war Clinton.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
It was Clinton Now.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
It was the Clinton days. It may have been later
than that, but still it was like, there wasn't. So
when something like that came on the news, it was
heart stopping. It was like, you've got to be kidding me,
how did this happen?

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah? No, I mean and even in the just the
last couple of years, we hear, we hear about every
single one of them, especially when you're into fucking true crime. Yeah,
I'm just constantly reading about these things and we're just
constantly looking at But back then it was harder to
find those things and the detail that you can get now, yeah,
the photos and so it was just this glimpse that

(44:04):
you would get.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, horrible, Yeah, God, that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Sorry, So that's.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Some No, I mean, that's like that was a big one,
and it's interesting to know that that was a person
that started doing that, was that was the internally and
intensely damaged individual that like started pretty bad and it
got way, way, way worse.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Right somewhere along the way, you know, there could have
been intervention or just something different could have happened.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
I think it's when eventually, hopefully people start taking rape
as a crime, more serious sight, as a real as
something that this isn't something to have your hands slapped
and walked away from, and that a lot of people
that do it do it over and over again and
intend to do it over and over again. That's a

(44:55):
serious problem with.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
A person, and it's not I feel like there's a
lot of people who just think rape is someone who
wants to have sex really bad, like a rapist is
someone who's just looking for sex, When if you think
about it in a way which it actually is, which
is this fucking violent, insane mind who needs to overpower
and hurt and fucking ruin someone', that is a criminal

(45:19):
who should not be allowed on the streets after three
years of good behavior, and how often do they escalate?

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I mean, how many stories do we tell that start
off with a person doing she he raped a girl
in his town, and then da da dad, and then
he moved to this town, and then suddenly he's murdering
the people he's raping. I mean, it's the story every time. Yeah,
I feel like it's going to catch up slowly as
long as we don't as well. I mean, I feel
like the more people who talk about it, the more

(45:45):
people who have conversations, but also the more like the brock.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Turner, I was just thinking, that's what I was thinking about.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, that the swimmer from Sanford who got released because
you know, nobody wanted to mess up his swimming career,
and he raped a girl so violently who I think
he drugged? I think. I don't know if that ever
came out like to be the truth, but that's the theory.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
She was incapacitated.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
She was incapacitated. She and when she told the story,
it's like she's at a party and all of a
sudden she's waking up behind a dumpster and the two
men who witnessed it were so upset. The two men,
grown men were showing him so upset of what they witnessed.
That's not something that you go, okay, well, don't do
this anymore. Who would do that in the first It's like,

(46:34):
we have to start treating it and talking about it
as the extremely violent criminal act that it is. And
also stop fucking using the phrase sexual assault. Using if
it's rape, it's rape.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Some people say, like, you know, sexual assault, it's not sex.
Don't use the word sex when it's just right, unconsensual,
non consensual sex, non consensual sex. Sex is right, is rape.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Sex is between two consenting adults, So don't fucking call
it that.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Also, date rape is rape.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Date rape is rape. That doesn't mean it's just nice
and chill rape. No, it's rape.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Also, there's it wasn't a pre agreement that that agreement
got broken, which is what date rape alludes to.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Hit you went on at date, what did you? Yeah,
someone got upset. No, this person is a rapist. Yeah,
you don't rape people unless you're a rapist.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
So right people, Oh man, I mean, I think we're
coming down pretty hard on an anti rape stance.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I think it's clear that we're anti rape and we're.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Saying it to our listeners as if we were a
like to convince them event.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
You guys, stop it, stop it. We're like, yes to
fucking crochet nipple belts, no to rape. Just know where
we stand.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
We're gonna tell you how it worked.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
There's no gray area. Oh man, are you ready for yours?

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, this is gonna be a bit of a left turn.
I'm not gonna say it's fun, but it died.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
It's an upturn. It's an uptick from it's.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
It's not the most upsetting for me. That really, and
I'm not I swear I'm not criticizing you. It really
that's the one that gets me where I almost try
not to think about it because it's just awful.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
I've almost didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
But I'm like, but there are people, I mean, that's
these are the stories people, when you talk about them,
it's important.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Because also because she's a survivor and survive.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
And she has a story. It's how which I think
she's now coming out and telling it.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
I bet she is. Yeah, I bet, I bet she's
doing amazing work.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
And that's you.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Know, there's no I mean, just to think of the
nightmare she went through. Yeah, is as a survivor. She
has to be a very strong person to be able
to move forward, not on, but move forward in real life.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yep uh. I also think you do certain things in
your life and there are no amount of us is
nails that can help you after a while. Just just
not that anybody that needs to hear that message is listening.
But it's just a personal theory I have. You can
pick up that Bible all you I mean, like that's

(49:12):
the whole idea of Christian saved is like, yeah, now
you're forgiven, but you can't just fucking killed children? Now,
God does what are we doing?

Speaker 1 (49:20):
God doesn't want you anymore? Right? That's that what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
What's the Where can we start talking about? Will anything
ever settled down enough? We can talk about actual rehabilitation,
what works?

Speaker 1 (49:34):
What?

Speaker 2 (49:35):
How do you how do you fix people that do
terrible things?

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Oh? We have to admit right now is that we
don't know? Yeah, and so why are we Why are
we saying, oh, he's rehabilitator, we can let him out.
We don't know the brain and we don't know psycho
like psychology is a pretty new fucking thing. Why are
we saying that we know well enough to let someone
out on good behavior, that they're rehabilitated. Yeah, it's that
fucking pretending that you that you went to fucking college

(50:02):
for eight years and became you know, you read in
all the textbooks, so you know when someone is fucking rehabilitated.
Why are we letting that happen?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Are you saying they pretended they went to college and
they really they did.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I'm saying that people who I mean or went to
what's that college that you can go to online? Oh,
Phoenix University. Yeah, you got a Phoenix University. You get
a fucking degree in criminal justice.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
How about that? We put child rapists on the Great
Pan Pacific garbage patch. Ooh, that's about five miles wide
and it's made of garbage. It's floating in the sea.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
They're garbage people.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
You go out there and you take that act out
into the garbage patch.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Because that's that's yeah, all right, if you've not swim
back to shore, then you get off on whatever.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Garbage behavior.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, garbage behavior gets garbage patches.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
This is not helping anyways. Steven cut that. Stephen got
my story.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
All right, I'm going to talk to you about a
man named Rabbi Fred Newlander. Do you know him?

Speaker 1 (51:08):
No?

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Okay, So I got most of this from an old
City Confidential, which if you haven't seen City Confidential, oh
the oldest ones were narrated by a man, a great
actor named Paul Winfield. And Paul Winfield narrated this show
like he had a margarita in one hand. He is

(51:31):
so chilled out, it feels like when he tells you
the story and the writing is so hilariously brilliant. They
tell you the story, so they it's called City Confidential,
so they tell you all about the city first, so
they're like, it was a bedroom community exactly Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania.
It was a sleepy book. And then it becomes they

(51:52):
do it thematically. So since because this was about the rabbi,
it was all these biblical references, it was like, but
evil did live here, and it's like and he's kind
of talking like that, he's a little slurry.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
It's like, but yeah, but like such obvious innuendos that
it's not. I love that show.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
It's the best show. I used to watch it so much.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
I don't know why Forensic Files is on constantly and
that show isn't because Forensic Files is like adorable because
it's so dated. You know, it's a door consitting on
Evngel is legitimately good.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
City Confidential is a beautifully put together, beautifully produced show.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Good stories too.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Great stories. They get great people. Here's what I love
the hometown reporters because they're the ones that know the
whole story.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Angels, and this is their big fucking moment to be
on TV and to be like I know I wrote
about he called h the one.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I'm the one. It's me, Pam.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Listen. I went to fucking Phoenix University journalism school and
I'm finally fucking getting my come up.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
And but a lot of these people, like it's true.
It's like these This one woman who's a reporter for
it was like the Cherry Hill Gazetteever the hell I
should have written down. It's on YouTube, everybody go watch it.
It's so good. But these are journalists, these are really
these are people who are like, this is what the
town's like, this is what we're used to. This is
It's so cool because they give you the sense of

(53:12):
what is going on.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
And they're always such like they're such earnest people, like
you trust them.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
You they know what they're talking about. It's not this
this bullshit over here where it's like I think it
wasn't Pensylving. They're like they know for a fact everything
they say is a fact.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
And over here, like sitting on the couch right now.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
I was pointing to myself, Oh yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Thought you meant like the La time. I was like,
oh no, because.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
We're in LA, like the west coast.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Oh my god, uh.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
No, no, okay, So yes, if you want, if you
want to get the full story, the City confidentials on
there also, just I do recommend getting onto a YouTube
like enter some true crime something, because they just have
a million old shows on YouTube that are true crime
stories that just they don't This one doesn't have the

(54:00):
tidle City Confidential. It just says Fred Newlander. Oh yeah,
then you click it. So I think somebody was avoiding trouble.
So you can still watch them anyhow, Please do support
City Confidential. It doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
So Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania is a suburb of Philly. It's
middle upper middle class, and it might sound familiar to
you because it had the first indoor mall on the
East coast, the Cherry Hill Mall.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Okay, no, okay, So that's exciting for them. I'm happy
for them, right people.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
I mean it used to be like because the Highway
seventy used to go from Philly to Cherry Hill, and
so basically that road was always full of traffic because
people lived worked in the city and lived in the suburbs.
And so they started building you know, stores along the
road because everyone was always on the road. That's what

(55:00):
led to the first indoor mall.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
I never thought of that thing, like there's a first one. Yeah,
it's just like then they were.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah, and then people just go like the whole city
was kind of built around and the community was in
the mall. They one of these reporters said, like, if
you want to know the community or see what the
community is like, you go to the mall.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Wow. I love a mall, dude. Yeah. So okay.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
So there's like seventy thousand residents and probably a third
of them are Jewish. So there's you know, these reporters
talk a lot about how much there really is a
lot of diversity in this town, and so one of
the more popular temples in Cherry Hill is called Kor Shalom,
and it was founded by Rabbi Fred Newlander in nineteen

(55:48):
seventy four. He was an assistant rabbi at a different temple,
but he didn't want to be the assistant anymore, and
he felt like his take on what he wanted to
talk about and preach about. Please correct me on any
of these, I'm going to use a lot of Catholic
wording for very strictly Jewish things, and I apologize in advance.
But he basically wanted his, you know, congregation and his

(56:12):
leadership to be a little bit more updated and a
little different. So he starts this new temple and by
the mid nineties he's got four thousand people going to it,
so it's like one of the bigger ones in the city.
He had met his wife, Carol in college. She was
the daughter of a very well to do garment garment businessman.

(56:34):
I guess, garment.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Manufacturer, like a.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Garment textile guy, you know, textiles and clothing merchant, I guess.
But she was rich, like she grew up in a
mansion in Long Island and with butlers and stuff. I
love that part and they talked about like a rolling
a rolling lawn down to the ocean or whatever like.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Kind of having. Butler's just like hanging out makes me.
I feel guilty, so uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah, we're like someone's silent standing there, ready to do
your bidding.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Steve, and I want to point out that Stephen, Yeah,
I would hate it to have like a.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Helper is someone that just does whatever you ask them to,
and you don't only every five months.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Touch I stand corrected.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
I meant that about myself as much as you know.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Yeah, you were correct.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Steven's crying. Uh, Steven, get back in your hole. Stephen,
put your tuxedo back on. Okay. So, while at the
same time as Fred is, you know, starting up his
basically his own religious community in Cherry Hill, Carol notices
that they're with all the festivities that go on in

(57:50):
the religious holidays and stuff like that, there's no kosher bakery.
So she opens Cherry Hill's first kosher bakery. It's it
was called the Classic Cake Company. And she starts smilingly. Right,
she sees a niche and that needs to be filled.
She does it.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
She's not going to fucking rest on her dad's textile laurels.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Fuck, no, no, and she's not going to rest on
her rabbi husband's good time. Now, She's going to be like,
excuse me, I went to a party and yet again
I couldn't get a slice of kosher cake.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Can I, please, God damn it to three any butter
cream in this fucking couched.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Bacon that's kosher? Right, it doesn't get bacon rubbed on it.
So she starts this cake company and it does great.
So by the early nineties the new Landers are killing it.
Their son, Matthew is a medical student, but he's also
part time emt. Their daughter, Rebecca lived in Philly. I

(58:51):
don't know anything about her, but I want to say
great things she was. I mean she lived in Philly. Yeah,
she got out of Cherry Hill. She made it.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
She wasn't an o schlamp, No, no way.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
And she still got along with her family because her
and her mom talked on the phone all the time.
So the only worry was this Carol at the Classic
Cake Company made the take was between five and twenty
grand a day.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
So it's a middle aged mom type who's driving home
with a shit ton of cats every night. So Fred
starts to be concerned about that, and he tells Carol,
We're I'm going to look into this because I think
we need better security for the house and for you,
and we need to kind of like address this. So

(59:37):
in uh, Fred says he knows a guy. So what
had happened was in nineteen ninety two, a man named
Len Janoff had come to the temple because someone in
his AA group recommended that he goes speak to Rabbi
Fred Neumeyer. Because at the time Len had just gotten divorced.

(59:58):
He was totally broke. He was a raging alcoholic doing
very like really bad in general, and also people say
he was kind of a bit of a liar. So
he had a he had kind of a he had
some personality issues and some work to do. And when
he went to go talk to Rabbi Fred Neumeyer, they
got along great and and Fred said, come to this temple.

(01:00:21):
You don't have to worry about paying anything like you
We want you here. You're welcome, And he really made
a place for him there and they both smoked at
the time, so they would sneak off and smoke together.
Because you think rabbis rabbis might maybe they're not supposed
to smoke, or it's frowned upon or something. Or he
would sneak away with his friend and they would go
smoke and talk. And turned out that Lenin had a

(01:00:45):
lot to say. He had been a Vietnam vet, and
then according to him, he worked for the CIA and
the FBI and special Forces.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Nobody, if you actually have done that, you don't say it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
That's exactly what's one Sudden City Confidentially, shut ups were
a swear to god. I think his own friend there
was another guy that was this classic like because this
thing was shot in what nineteen ninety five probably, so
there's some amazing, amazing colored blazers and there's some frosted tips.
But his friend said the exact same thing. People who

(01:01:20):
worked in the CIA do not tell you stories about
when they used to work at the CIA. The part
of Len's reason for drinking so much is because he'd
been in the ship and seen the shit. Okay, so
no one's gonna say anything about it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
So on Tuesday nights, Carol is at the Classic K
Company has her it's her manager's meeting night, and so
she stays at work until eight. So that night November one,
nineteen ninety four, is a Tuesday, and Fred comes home
at six o'clock and he brings a pizza home for

(01:01:56):
him and Matthew to have for dinner because they know
Carol's not going.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
To be there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
And then Matthew goes for his shift being an amt
at six thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Oh, no, do I know where this is going? You might?

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
So then Fred goes back to the temple because Carol's
not going to be there. So he goes back to
the temple. He pops in on the assistant rabbi's Judaism class,
and he pops in on the fire practice, and he's
kind of hanging.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Out of the temple. Don't know what he's doing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
When Carol comes home at eight o'clock, no one's home,
and she's talking on the phone to her daughter, Rebecca,
And while they're on the phone, she says to her daughter, oh,
the bathroom. The bathroom man's here again, And she's like,
what are you talking about? And then Carol explains that
a man had dropped by to deliver something for Fred

(01:02:51):
the father, and instead of just handing the thing to her,
he asked if he could use the bathroom, and so
he came in and used the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Oh no, And.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Rebecca was very upset about that and was like, I
don't like that at all. Don't let him in. And
she said, no, he's fine. He's this schlubby guy. He's
kind of like, you know, he's nothing to worry about, basically,
is what she's said. And then they get off the
phone and she says, he's a friend of your father's,
so don't worry about it. In nine to twenty, Fred

(01:03:23):
comes home from the temple and no one's home, and
then when he gets inside the doorway more he looks
in the living room and it's white carpet, white furniture,
like almost a completely white room, and it's covered in blood.
There's blood everywhere, and Carol is laying in the middle
of the living room dead. He calls nine one one,

(01:03:44):
and when he calls nine one one, he sounds really
upset and flustered, and at one point he says to
the dispatcher or the nine one one operator, should I
touch her? He asked so, And I thought about that
after because I was like, well, that's kind of a

(01:04:05):
weird point to make. And then I thought, well, that's
that thing where if I walked into this apartment to
come and record, and you were laying in the middle
of the floor, right bloody. I would run over to
you and be like, George, are you okay, and touch
you eat bunch without asking anybody about it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
You wouldn't think to yourself, Oh, I don't want to
contaminate this crime scene.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Right for just I'm going to hang back and hopefully
hopefully she's okay. So that that was noted basically, And
then I thought about that because so his so as
he's on the phone call, he says, you have to
tell that, you have to tell them my son is
an e MT. They can't send him here, and so

(01:04:48):
like the word goes out. But it didn't matter because
he was like the third group that arrived. So you address, yes,
but but he wasn't on that call or that run
or whatever. So by the time he did arrive, there
had already been police and another ambulance or whatever. He
tries to run inside, he has to get physically restrained

(01:05:10):
from running inside, and then he looks over and sees
his father just standing in the driveway, just kind of staring,
and he notices that there's no blood on his father
at all, there's not a drop of anything on his father.
And then he asks and he and the rabbi didn't
say last rites over her. He didn't say the prayer

(01:05:33):
like there are things they were saying that they would
assume he would have done as a rabbi with a
dead person. Now, who knows, because it's his wife. Sure,
so he might have just been in total shock and
like wandered out fair But when police were exiting the house,
coming in and out, he never asked anybody what's going on?
What happened to her? He never said a word. He

(01:05:53):
was just standing there, very dispassionately staring.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
And if you've found me and I was stabbed to death,
and the thing that'll go through your mind is is
the killer still in the house? Yes, you know what
I mean to not think that? How long ago did
this happen?

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Who did it? What is happening?

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Are they still here? Yeah? I think that's a natural
fucking fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Yes, that'd be the scariest thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
So he doesn't even think about that. No, that's bad,
Like that's a bad sign.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Yes, And also I did hear a bit of his
nine one one call, and it's just I just hate
so much when it sounds like people are fake. I
hate fake crying a sound like he is. But it's
like I just I just love good acting, and this
offends me when people are like, oh, this will pass.
This is how people act when they're set.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Everyone else is so stupid and I'm so smart that
they'll never know that this is fucking fake.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, of course I'll buy it. So good, I'm so
good and so believable in these decisions I'm about to
make about what a real person has.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Emotions, right, Like, who wouldn't murder his wife?

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Yeah, oh my god, Okay, so okay, says go to paper.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
So of course, immediately he becomes the focus of the
investigation because he's the husband and because these weird, weird behavior. Yeah,
they start talking to but his alibi is air tight,
as we know, the choir teachers say, and the assistant rabbi.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Some he asked everyone what time it was for real,
and to the point where the cops are immediately like,
that's a super air tight alibi.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
You don't buy for one second. We when they start
asking people at the temple. It was the first time
in four years he'd ever gone into the Judaism class.
Oh my god, and the choir leader was a known
to hate interruptions, so no one went into choir practice
while it was going on. It was and Fred himself

(01:07:50):
knew that about him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Do some due diligence and then come in like once
in the fucking weeks beforehand, and I'm telling you how
to fucking kill someone.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
But it's the thing of if you don't know instinctually
how natural people act, how I act in a natural way,
you're not gonna be able to recreate it. If you're
a sociopath like this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
And everyone thinks you're on the label, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
You think everyone's dumb. And also clearly he's got a
bit of a god complex. And she's like, I need
my own temple whatever. Yeah, so okay. Uh. Then they
go to the phone records and they realized that the
rabbi had been calling this one number and they go
and look at it and it's a local Philadelphia radio

(01:08:36):
talk show host and yes, and uh, we'd have to
find her name.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Shit, Sorry, this is a weird turn. I wasn't expected.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Did you not see this one coming?

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I didn't see that we were going to go into
talk radio.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Now, I did not well talk about that in podcasting.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Uh, neither did anybody else, especially the fans of Elaine's
Sorcines of Philadelphia radio. She's a radio personality. So basically
they do all the math. They see that he's he
called her. He called her the day after the murder
and said, Uh, I really like hang in there. I

(01:09:21):
really want to be with you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Did they fucking what's that? They fucking? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
They straight up fucking Yeah. So they find out all
these calls are going to her house. This is a
woman who the reason they met is because two years
earlier he presided over her husband's funeral. Uh huh girl,
Uh yes, that's right, and they had started having an affair,

(01:09:50):
they say roughly two months later.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Oh no, yes, Fannie ain't caled.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
He moved right in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Yep, you don't. You don't fuck someone whose husband said
the cottish for you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Right, that's what I always say.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
That's what you that's here, you have that tattooed, right?

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Uh okay, So oh I'm sorry, I just got I
just got up to my own piece of paper. They began.
She admitted that they started having an affair ten days
after her husband's funeral. Ten days. Oh no, after her
husband's funeral.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Yes, And then two years later, she gives him an ultimatum.
She says, I don't want to sneak around with you anymore.
You say you want to leave your wife, leave your wife,
and if you don't do it by the end of
nineteen ninety four, this is over and I'm starting afresh
in the new year. And he's like, how about instead,

(01:10:46):
well he so that was in October of nineteen ninety four,
and the murder happens in November.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
My god.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
He told her, I'll have this all sorted out by
your birthday, which was in December.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
And she's like, you know, I mean break up I
sorted out? Do you mean yeah, you're going to end
their relation? No? No, that's a horrible murder.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Oh well that's not what I was talking about at all.
So yeah, So he was making a lot of calls
to her. So the police, all the evidence they have
is circumstantial. So it even though everyone's like that stuff
about his airtight alibi, it's still an airtight alibi. Just
like everyone's like, this is this stinks to yah heaven.

(01:11:29):
But it doesn't matter. They can't get any hard evidence.
Until the cops tell Elaine that Fred Newlander was also
having affairs with three other women not the temple besides her. Yeah,
and that's when she's like, guess what, hey about? Guess
what everybody? And she spills it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Then what a shitty thing, though, for her not to
If she hadn't known that, she would have never told anyone,
you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean I bet
she needed to believe that he didn't do it, or
that it was all like I'm sure he was telling her.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Of course, the husbands suspected. We're always suspected hanging there
with me, and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
She wasn't a fucking murderina then, because any murderino would
be like, get the fuck away from me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Yeah, that's that's He also told her, I told you
to trust me. When God closes the door, he opens the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Window, you're like, glaud you fired or something. Get the
fuck out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
It's like, you're the happiest rabbi I've ever heard. You're
supposed to be really eloquent and have like good sayings. Yeah,
that's Brent a serious man.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
Movie, So in May of two thousand, len Janoff goes
to a local Oh no, sorry that it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Was, but you were telling me what she was like.
So she finds out that Elaine.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Yeah, so Elaine finds out that he the cops are
liked he's having all these other fish and she's like,
oh fine, then the blah blah blah, and none of
this is as I believe it to be. But that wasn't.
That wasn't until way later I believe it was. She
finally tells them that in nineteen ninety six, but that's
still circumstantial. That could be like the lady that's mad

(01:13:08):
because the guy didn't pick her whatever. When it finally
cracks is when len Janoff goes to a local reporter
and starts telling her about how he was told that
basically Rabbi Fred Newlander, who sorry. In the meantime, len

(01:13:31):
Janoff becomes the rabbi spokesperson. So anytime there's news cameras,
anytime there's reporters on the front lawn, the Rabbi sends
len Janoff out to talk to them. And this guy
is just a bullshitter and apparently he was. He would
he would call people, he would give quotes. He was
like way out in front of the story, and he

(01:13:54):
loved to hand out a private investigation business card like
he and security business card. The whole thing made me
think of the Sherry Peppini guy that's like, oh, I'll
handle this, I'll be the mouthpiece, Like what are you
doing here?

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Yeah, another fucking big headed sociopath.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Yes, And so they work on that guy for a
long time. He eventually tells a reporter that the rabbi
hired him for thirty thousand dollars to kill his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
He spills it, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
And so he tells the story that him and his
friend Paul Daniels, who he met in AA and Paul
Daniels was twenty years old when this happened. And every
picture of him he looks dumber than the last picture,
Like every picture his mouth is open and it looks
like he can't believe he's where he is. It's super sad.

(01:14:50):
And I know it's wrong to be like, oh, that
poor terrible criminal that murdered this woman, but it really
looks like he got looped into something that he kind
of didn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
What was going on, be talked into anything.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Yes, but I mean erased that because still what happened
was they knock on the door, that night at the house,
Carol answers the door, recognizes the bathroom man, and they
come in. She's what happens. She led them into the house.
So for whatever they said to her the door, she
was like, come on in, you guys. She turns around,

(01:15:24):
well because she trusts them because it's her husband's friend.
And she turns around to walk in and one of
them hit hits her on the back of the head
with a pipe and she goes down. They crack her
head open that she goes down in the living room
and then and the Paul Daniels guy says he did
the one hit and then len Janoff went in and

(01:15:45):
just beat her to death with this pipe. That's the
story that guy gives and they in the in the
City Confidential the report this one reporter describes it where
it's like it's a white living room and there's just
blow everywhere, Like it's so disturbingly awful because it's like, oh,
you kill a person, that's just like, yeah, there's blood spatter,

(01:16:08):
there's whatever, it's everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
The word legend, Yeah, such a horrible word. That's terrible
violent day.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Yeah. So finally, uh so, finally they get the cops
get enough evidence so they can indict Fred Numyer for
this new Lander, sorry for this death. So they go
they have the first trial, and in that trial all
this stuff comes out. So it's just like all this

(01:16:35):
gossip from the temple, all the stuff they it's just
all they had no idea that their rabbi was this
much of a douchebag. And it all comes out in trial,
and the they find out that the daughter, like you know,
the mother had just said to the daughter, it's the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Then they find out that lean Janoff had been there
the week before, on the Tuesday night when she was
supposed to be there by herself. But he got cold
feet because when he went in, Fred Newlander told him
it needed to look like a robbery. They needed to
be stealing that cake company money. But he when he
walked in, he couldn't see her purse, and since he

(01:17:13):
knew he wouldn't be able to make it look like
a robbery, he got cold feet, asked he use the bathroom,
and then left.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Oh my god, So that's why he's the bathroom man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
That's why he's the bathroom man. He was there. He
was supposed to kill her that night and basically punked out.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Holy shit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
So they they get it all in trial and the
jury's deadlocked and it's declared a mistrial. No, yes, and
this is five years, more than five years of police
work and lawyer's work and everything. Yeah, it's declared a mistrial.

(01:17:50):
And when it's declared to mistrial, Fred Newlander smiled, and
the prosecuting attorney saw him smile, and the next morning
went down and filed or a retrial immediately. It's just like,
we are doing this again right now. So when the
new trial starts, don't need that paper. When the new
trial starts, this time his children testify for the prosecution.

(01:18:16):
So Rebecca and Matthew now come and tell the story,
and it's the tone is really different, and he's like, basically,
it's very sad. The son is just like my father
was watching this whole thing and had no emotions whatsoever,
and like his mother was murdered and his father didn't care,
and so awful. Anyway, at the end of the second

(01:18:37):
trial in two thousand and two, he's declared guilty and
he does this speech at the end that is the
lamest and it's like that thing we've seen before where
they just talk about themselves and how hard it is
for him and and he actually, at one point at
the end of this kind of rambling speech that kind
of makes no sense, and he's quoting Bible verse, of course,

(01:18:59):
and then he goes, I and I alone know that
I am innocent. And then it's just like, well, listen
to what you just said. Yeah, basically, like you just
said you're super fucking guilty, right right, not being persecuted.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
You're guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Yeah. But then after that, Carol's brother Edward, stands up
and he goes, in the past eight years, you have
acted in a manner so repulsive that words cannot begin
to describe the person that you've become. You are a murderer,
a liar, a coward, a cheat. You've dishonored Carol, yourself,

(01:19:35):
your children, this court, the rabinet, your congregation, and judaism ah.
And I just as I'm watching City Confidential, I'm just
like pausing and writing down every word, Edward says, because
I was like, that's fucking bad, that's powerful. Like you're
basically like, do whatever you think you're doing there, it's
not worth You're humiliating yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Yeah, God doesn't like you anymore. That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
You blew it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
You blew it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
So now he's serving a life sentence. Paul Daniels and
Len Janoff were both given twenty three years for their parts. Wow,
that's it, which is kind of insane that they're the
ones that swung the total type. But it was because
it was his plan, Fred's plan.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Yeah, it's like intention. Your intention wasn't to kill your wife,
it was to get money to get for someone else.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
And also land Janoff was promised that he was going
to get He's going to go be able to go
join the Masad, the Israeli Army. Oh it's called Didn'sel right,
that's the Israeli Army, the Masade, or it might be
Israeli special Forces.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
But basically he believed that he was going to go
from there to then go be like a super soldier, huh,
which just shows that that guy was pretty nuts. He
was released from jail in fourteen, and Paul Daniels was
released in October of twenty fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Are you serious?

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Oh yeah, let me see if I missed anything, because
I wish I could show you how insane these pieces
of paper look of my handwriting. I'm handwriting city.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
I don't know how you can do that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
It's kind of fun to like watch TV and then
be like this is important and be writing it down.
But I didn't. I went out of order. Both trials
were televised on Court TV.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Oh yeah, I've never even heard of it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
I know, isn't that crazy? And this is so this guy,
Arthur J. Magada wrote a book called The Rabbi and
the Hitman about this case, and this is just one
last story from it that I thought was pretty good.
So a congregant who was a doctor had been friends
with Newlander for twenty years and traditionally went to the
rabbi's house for their annual breaking of the fast after

(01:21:58):
yam War. And when Newlander was charged with this crime
before the trials, the physician told Newlander he wasn't going
to keep their tradition, and the rabbi wanted to talk
it over, and so he went to his friend's house
and sitting in the living room, that doctor told Newlander
why he believed that he had had his wife killed.
That Newlander never behaved like a grieving widower. That when

(01:22:20):
the physician planned to offer a reward for the information
about the murder, Newlander asked for the money for himself.
Newlander asked his friend to provide a letter explaining that
medication he was taking for a heart problem would have
caused him to fail his lie detector test what and After,
And he had a motive because with his wife gone,
he didn't have to worry about the mess of dwarfs

(01:22:42):
and he could go on with his lady talk show
host radio talk show host. So Newlander tries to defend himself,
saying he loved his wife, and then the doctor says, Fred,
no matter what you say, I can't help but like
you because you're charming and you're beguiling. But I think
you're a side pychopath and a murderer. And Newlanders stands

(01:23:03):
up to leave, walks a few steps away, then turns
back and says, well, nobody's perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
Ew fucking creep ew uh huh. Can you imagine your response?

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Still in your house? And that's what he says to
I think you killed your wife, so I don't want
to hang out with you anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
And you're a psychopath.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
You're a psychopath.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
Like if someone called me a psychopath, it would ruin me.
I'd be like, am I No, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
I know that'd be very hurtful.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Yeah, most people would.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
What also a doctor, a doctor, a doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Yeah, you can't argue with it. And he didn't get
his degree from Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
No, I bet you that was a real Cherry Hill doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
He got his associates from Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
But anyway, he actually got a cosmetology degree because he
was interested in stuff like that. And then he was like, no,
I like medicine.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
Yeah, I don't like cutting hair, like cutting people. Yeah, wow, yeah,
fucked up shit.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
That's the rabbi And actually the a couple of people
who suggested this one, but Julian McCullough's friend Craig is
the one who told me to do it, assuming either
he listens to the podcast or he just likes suggesting
things to people. But it was because Craig lives in
Cherry Hill. It's from Cherry Hill.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
That's fun. Yeah, I mean no, that's not It's not
fun at all. That's a fucked up, terrible thing. That
That was a good story though.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
Okay, thanks good because I really did have it written
on nine different pieces of paper.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
You went after me though, too, because yes, so we
can leave.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
On us slightly. Oh yeah, we should talk about a positive,
a thing we like, a thing that made us happy. Well,
I would say, let's see mine. I have been on
the couch a lot since we've got back from Portland.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
I mean it takes a lot out of you, it
really does.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
But then also once I get on the couch, I
have a real hard time getting back off, Like it
just so much easier to stay there.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
What are you watching Modern Family?

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
Yeah, I t voted Modern Family and it is just
such a It's such a well written show. It's such
a good joke. The characters are so watchable and likable.
I'm so in love with Cam of Mitchell and Cam
the two Gey guys. It's He's just the best character.
It's like it but all of them, like, they're just

(01:25:25):
so many good jokes. And that's the thing is, it's TV.
Writing is very hard, and they're there. They have been
delivering like a plus grade comedy for like ten years.

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
I mean all I did was enter it and immediately
I'd like fifteen episodes of Modern Family. And I got
it from my sister. I will give her full credit
because she's been obsessed with it since the moment it
came out. And that's why I have a song where
I reference Modern Family really where I say in the song,
if one more person tells me to watch Modern Family,

(01:25:58):
blah blah blah, and a lot of people are like, oh,
you hate that show. It's like, no, no, no, I'm
just taking that from a real anecdote of me and
my sister, Like every time I talk to my sister
on the phone, she would tell me to watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
I watched it in the beginning and then I stopped.
It's still good.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
It's amazing. Yeah, it's just it's just perfectly written. Yeah.
That and I've been having great lift driver conversations like.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Oh, that's nice because you always gets scared. I always
get scared that. It's like I had a nightmare one
the other day, and I'm a nightmare person. Be a
nightmare conversationists, which means he was just talking at me
and I was getting car sick from it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
And you go, dot dude, yea ear pods, Yeah, earbuds.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
That's awesome. That's a sweet one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
Yeah, there's it's been pretty pleasant. But I really I
have to get a car. It's ridiculous. I'm acting like
miss Daisy. But it's nice sometimes to have like a
pleasant conversation where you laugh about how bad drivers in
LA are.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
Yeah, yeah, which yours? Well, I guess I just finished
watching it yesterday. But Big Little Eyes, oh yeah, which
I didn't think I would like. I never read the book,
even though Audible was always like, you might like this,
you might like this, and I'm like, no, I won't,
you know, like a bras sure, and yeah, I don't

(01:27:18):
like that. So from Oprah's Book Club, that's the kind
of you know. And then of course it's fucking amazing
and the show is so good, and it was all
these female characters that were that their whole lives weren't
based on They had these whole lives round their husbands
and families, and they were central characters instead of being

(01:27:39):
the backup singers to them, you know, and it was
just like about them. It was about them and their
co star in life was their partner, and it was
just kind of cool. And the acting was so fucking
good and Shyye Woodley what's her name, Chileen she Leen, Yeah,
she's just like she's such a great she's so great
in it, and it was it was really funny it

(01:27:59):
was fucked up and good and there's a murder and
there's a murder mystery.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Oh okay. I didn't know that because I tried to
watch the first I swear to god, I don't think
I got four minutes in. And the first exchange two
women had talking to each other. The tones of voice
they were using made me turn my TV off because
it was like, oh, hi Arlene, nice to see or whatever,
where there's like.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Like they all come out as like kunti cunts. Oh okay,
and then it's like, but there's shit going on underneath
the surface. Oh, I'm going back and it's a it's
the whole thing is a murder mystery. Oh shit, okay,
and it's good and everyone is having these The Nicole
Kidman and Alexander Sarisgard relationship was amazing cool, Like you
just need to watch it to see the two of them.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
Nicole Goidman takes a lot of shit, but she's an
incredible action.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
They're gonna win all the awards for Henrise Witherspoon. I
think are gonna win it all.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
I sent my friend a gift the other day of
remember when she was clapping at the Oscars. Yes, someone
made that, and I can't figure out if someone did
this to the gift or if this is really what
it looked like. But it looks like her fingers are
this like it. She looks like she has alien fingers
as she's clack.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
I think that's real.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Is it what her fans really look like?

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
I don't know. I saw that too, and I think
it's real.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
We were laughing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
I was laughing anyway when I found it because she
it looks it looks like flippers. Yeah, it looks like
her nails are wet and she's trying not to let
them near each other.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
But also that she's from Mars. Yeah that aside. That's
me giving her shit when I say she takes a
lot of shit. But she, for example, when she started
acting in fucking those Australian you know, I'm the pretty
girl at the prep school. She has been an incredible
Did you ever see dead Calm or she's on the
boat m m oh my god. If you want to

(01:29:48):
see like an amazing murder, like it's ale not horror.
I guess it would be suspense or something action. But
it's her and Sam Neil I think, and somebody else.
They're on a boat. It's so good, and she's like,
it's when she had her kinky, curly hair. Yeah, and
she had her freckles and she was probably twenty and
she's so beyond gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
Yeah, she's gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
Yeah, and she still is to this day.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
They all play these wealthy, these wealthy women from Monterey
and everyone has these secrets underneath kind of a thing,
and it's there's some you know, it's good. I'm going
it's fine, this is a you need it. I was
bummed that I didn't binge watch it because I had
to wait a week to watch the new one. So
get in there, go binch. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Also, Adam Scott's in it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
Who I adore Adam Scott's in it. He plays a
really great character. He's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Okay, Yeah, that's a good rat.

Speaker 1 (01:30:40):
Yeah for sure. So that made me happy this week.
Anything else we need it? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
I think that we said last episode was like sixty
s I said it was like sixty seven, and it
was sixty two or something. I was off by a lot.
What's the numbers?

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
Say this is sixty three, but it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
Didn't last week? I say it was like sixty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
I mean, who cares? Yeah, we're up there fifty. It's
not like someone was setting their watch by like, oh shit, Dartie,
I said I was going to do this thing in
my life before sixty seven happened, And now talk.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
They're like, you know what, I'm going to stop smoking
around episode sixty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
Yeah, and if I haven't, then I am going to
start smoking someone. We made someone start smoking?

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
Where's that?

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
Elvis? Well you guys, thank you for listening. Tell a friend. Guys,
thank you for everything you are. You are our light
and our honor honor system and heart and soul an
honor system and mostly your our honor system. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
If you take a penny, you leave a penny in
our hearts.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
You've left a penny.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
You left a penny in my heart. Don't I'll put
a nickel in yours.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
Motherfucket, you're gonna double down. Well, thanks for listening. I
don't need I don't know. Thank you for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:32:07):
Thank you for everything. You want to come and make
her debut?

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
Maybe she does, I mean her triple her triple appearance. Yeah,
third times a charm me me, stay sexy everybody, and
don't get murdered me Bye bye me cookie me me
me it's cute.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
She's the Nicole Kidman of cats. What Cookie COOKI

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
Oh, Elvis here he is my cookie