7 - Seven Murders in Heaven

This week the girls discuss their favorite unsolved murders, including The Black Dahlia and Elisa Lam. Plus a hometown murder story by Doug Loves Movie cohost Karen Anderson and listener's favorite murders!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hie you guys. Hi, we're back. Hey, we're back from
a week long hiatus, and now we're here to deliver
your favorite, to give you nightmares and anxiety. Your favorite.
You're my favorite, murder's favorite, my favorite murder. I didn't
get that time. That should have rehearsed that we should have.

(00:42):
That's Karen and that's Georgia. And yes we've been on
a slight hiatus.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, we had life things happen, doing very large life thing,
not murder, h no, but nice things.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Georgia got married and a beautiful ceremony on the coast.
Thank you. Karen's mom died. She died after a long illness. Yeah,
I'm sorry, it's okay. It was actually really lovely. Yeah,
it was for me. It was a big about two
week period though of stressed. Yeah, or just like big feelings.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Of waiting between her passing and having to do the
end the memorial, Yeah, which is rare, right, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Think my dad was waiting. He put a little time
in there so that people could come and plant it
out and make sure they were there, and then it
turned out to be a brilliant idea because there was
tons of people. It was really lovely. It's great. I'm
so glad. Yeah, it was nice. Then I drove back
home the front end of my car fell off. What
didn't I tell you that? I drove six hours back

(01:48):
from San Francisco, took the riverside exit, came to a stop,
and the front bumper, like everything under the lights and down,
just went into the street and I had this is
my favorite part. I had to pick it up and
stick it into my car, which is very small, And
there was a guy in the car next to me.
He's like, you need my help and I was like yes,

(02:08):
and so he helped me put in the car. And
as he came around the side to help me, he
looked at all the other cars around us and goes,
you can help people, you know, and started yelling at
everybody else for not helping me. I love, which was
beautiful and how I think many of us feel. Yeah, yeah,
that's so nice. Yeah, there's just like do I help?
Or is that weird? If I help? Right? And can

(02:31):
I be of help? Like if it was me, I'd
be like can I even lift that thing or whatever?
Do you need anything? Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Do you want me to park in front of your
car with my lights on, so if they hit me,
they won't hit you.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
He's out of her car. Should I use myself as
a human shield exactly and make sure no more damage
comes to your car exactly? Or do you want me
to play some really good music so you can like
do this with get it done care? Yeah? How do
you feel after your big weekend? I feel great. At
the wedding.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
The whole fucking weekend was like I want to cry
if I started talking about it. It was like perfect
and wonderful and like this outpouring of love. And Vin
said this really sweet thing of like you know, when
you go to weddings and you're really you can tell
a wedding people believe that you're gonna you're a good
couple when they have a really good time at your wedding.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yes, you know what I mean, Like you don't want
to fucking.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Dance to like yond down when you're like, well, I'm
pretty sure he's gonna die of a heroin over it
was her cheat on her.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
She's like I know she's flacked or you know, no,
everybody everybody had like hearts in their own eyes about
your guy's merit. It was nice and everybody cried at
the ceremony because you you started having a little bit
of a cry voice, but like you were trying to
cover it. I was so your voice just kept getting
higher and higher, and I it was my favorite. You

(03:50):
were like Georgia. It was so cute.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
There was this moment that when I first got up there,
like I just had immediately started crying, but I didn't
want tears because I didn't want to make up to
get ruined, so it just came out of my nose instead,
and I gestured towards Vince's pocket square. Yeah, and he
like thought I he fixed it because he thought I
was like in the middle of our ceremony, going like,
fix your pocket square, and I was I was fortified.

(04:18):
I was like, no, can I have that? And he
gave it to me and I just snotted all over
his pocket square. But what kind of a human being
would I be if I was like, fix your pocket square?

Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think he was just like, whatever you need, This
is what I'm doing. What you need. That was a
really hilarious moment though, because no, I didn't see the
fix it or any of that. I literally saw you
point toward it and then him flick out like a magician,
a big, huge red handkerchief. It was very very cute. Okay,
good And That's what I'm all about. These days, real feelings,

(04:49):
real time, real feelings. Here they are They're just out
there and you can grab them and well because and
it's like, of course you're crying. Of course, it's like
these are you know, these are the peace experiences all
of our lives. Are the days to hold on to
because they will not last forever. No, right, do they
want to something? Because I want to I'm doing Billy Joel,

(05:12):
which one are you doing? I think I'm doing that too?
In the days? Hold on He's this has been my
favorite murder. Goodbye people are like I got nothing that
I came here for. No, we mean we're murdering it
at life. Yeah, murders, we're murdering emotions.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Before we talk about our favorite murders, I want to
ask you and I haven't watched this week, but did
you watch uh This People Versus and j Simpson last week?

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, how did you feel about Dominic Dunn's character?

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay, wait, are you talking about last week? Or I
just watched one last night? No, I didn't watch that
one yet.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Okay, the one where he first makes an appearance and
everyone knows who he is.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
He's like a famous crime. I felt good about his character, Like,
I felt like it was accurate to who does and
it was amazing. But he was, like he reminded me.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
His character reminds is so outlandish and insane as a
human being.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
He he is that it.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Reminded me of like in Cold Blood what's his name,
Truman Capote's character. You know, it's just so outlandish and
it's really not necessary in the show, right, But I
loved it.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Well, but he is. I mean, I bet you part
of the reason he's there is because he wrote so
much on the trial in the real time, Yes, and
kind of contributed to probably what they're researching, like they
might be reading some of his stuff. No, you're totally right.
Is he still alive dominic Done? I don't think so.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
And of course we all know his daughter Dominique Done, Yeah,
got shot by a rabbit fan of her stalker.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, a stalker. Pretty amazing. I mean, he's kind of
one of the original and he had a great power,
privilege and justice. Oh that was was such a good show.
Really good shot. But you can find it online. Yeah,
and he but he's not a good narrator because he
talks too slow, right, and he has a lot of
gravitas that he doesn't heat, that he adds on that
he doesn't need where it's like you already have tiny glasses.

(07:13):
We know that you know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
What's so great about the people of versus Ology Simpson
is there's so many moments in it, including his gravitas
and his you know, cadence that you have to We've
stopped so many times during the show to be like,
did that really happen?

Speaker 1 (07:28):
And look it up and it fucking really happened. Do
you mean like the fay Resnick thing? Yes, that was
amazing a fucking Brentwood Hello, Brentwood, Hello? Is that even
There's no way that was a thing they did. I
bet it was? Are you serious? Yes? I bet it
was in the book, right, I bet someone researched the book. No, no,
for sure, But I mean, do you think her book

(07:50):
was totally true? She seemed like a boozy fool.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
No, then no, I don't think it's true. I mean
like it just seemed like she was talking. Yeah, She's
like we did coke.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
We were crazy, which is like, sure, probably, but to
act like you did that every morning in random homes.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Right, and that was like the lifestyle and not like
they had children that they had to raise and take.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
To school and stuff. Yeah, but I mean that part
I actually did look up fit what fay Resnick's role
was because I didn't remember her from when it happened
in real life, and all that stuff was true.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Someone posted on our Facebook group their photo other copy
of that book that they've had, Like it's like an
original copy or something.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's like, this is this is a good group of people. Man,
if I get murdered terribly, I will you can spill it,
you know what. You know, you have my official digital
permission to just say whatever you think would work best
and make you the most money. Or what do you
think the Burbank goodbye is really gross? That'd be like

(08:53):
slightly dinging the side of your minivan out of a
Trader Joe's parking lot. Yeah all right, So today where
our theme is unsolved murders. Yes, it's an easy one
because because we've been busy, and I think didn't I
make it up while we were standing in the parking
lot at the end of your wedding, you're like, you know, end,

(09:13):
let's just here's a nice open one that won't that
we'll have lots.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Of choices for Yeah, but I feel like throughout, like
as we go on, they'll be easier.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
And then they're gonna get harder and harder. Do you
think they're gonna get easier, then get harder, and then
get easier again. Yeah. Like I think we'll be a
point where're like, we're just getting too specific.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
We need to get you know what I mean, like
try to make it easier on ourselves. Yes, over like sandwiches, We're.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Gonna we're we're gonna work all the way down to
two shots to the back of the head at midnight,
and then we'll be like murders that happen in nineteen
thirty six, in January nineteen thirty six, the Pantaloon murders. Yeah, uh,
do you want to go first to you whatever? You think?
I have a theory. We were just talking about this.

(09:57):
George and I both think that there's a chance we
may have picked this same unsolved murder. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Let me tell you what my original one was going
to be, but I ended up changing because I was like,
because first of all, it's like near your hometown. Oh okay,
so there's no way you didn't know it. And then
I looked it up and it was like I had
liked it because there was like it was just so random.
But that meant there really wasn't that much interesting stuff
about it, right, And then also it also meant that

(10:24):
I also looked up and it was like, this is
who probably did it, and.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
I was like, not, it seemed kind of like an
obvious answer exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
So it was the two thousand Mine was going to
be the Jenner, California double murder in two thousand and four,
where those those kids were camping out on a beach
and just got shot with a fucking rare, weird gun.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yep, you know I'm talking about. Yes, because it didn't
just happen there, it also happened in San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yes, Yes, So I hadn't realized that had happened. I
hadn't realized that they had a couple obvious suspects.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
And so I was going to do that. I like
that one though, because and also weren't they like when
I like the story, when you're reading it and it's
like these were two children from a Christian camp. Oh
they Yeah, they were like as squeaky clean as you
could possibly be. Yeah, they were and out in the
middle of Jenner is like a big, grassy, open field
of nothing. The idea that you would get murdered in

(11:19):
Genner is like someone was going way out of their.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Way, right or knew the area so well right, And
was the first thing that came to my mind was
that they pissed they It was they.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Pissed someone off earlier the day.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, they maybe road rage and they saw their fucking
car parked out there in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
You know, something's really simple. Yeah. There's also that Rando
serial killer that just traveled all across the whole United States.
I think his first name was Israel. You know that guy,
and he looks like he looks like a guy that
would work at ARII. When I saw his picture, I
got super freaked out. I don't know, I don't think
I've ever been in an Arii ari like, you know,

(12:02):
like Patagonia. It's in the north face. I don't know.
Who looks Oh, just like a dude who would have
like medium length sandy blonde, curly hairless yes, a rope necklace.
That's what this guy looked like. And he was randomly
killing people all across the country, everywhere he went, and
then when they caught him, he committed suicide. So he

(12:24):
never no one knows if like what he is. Just
so interesting that the gun was it was from like
eighteen ninety six. Oh is that a shotgun from eighteen
ninety six? That's probably wrong, but like a really old vintage. Yeah.
You shouldn't kill someone with a gun so rare. Everyone
take note. If you're gonna kill someone, make it a
really obvious gun, uh, or not obvious gun, yeah, because

(12:47):
the you know the antique guns obvious, right right? Yeah?
What was he like loading a musket on the beach?
They were saying it was one of those fucking guns. No, yeah,
that's terrible. That would mean that there's a delay between
killing and killing the other. Yeah, and he must have
been a good shot if it was at night, oh YoY.
And he grabbed the shell casings too, so there's no
shell casings left, which means you must have known where

(13:08):
they went, because if he was in the sand and
he grabbed them out of the air or had like
a or you had a metal detector. Did I tell
you Ally got me a metal detector for Yeah? But
who did Ellie got me for fucking for my wedding? No,
that is the best gift I've ever heard of.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
You have, no, I I've been talking about that, wanting
one and like just wanting to disappear from life and
you go be a metal detective.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yes, a detectress. Oh my god, that's my new show
at the Detectress, the Detectriss Because I just saw a
thing for metal detector vacations and I was like, I
want to meet the person who would want to go
on a metal DETECTI vacation with me, because that is
like every time I see something like that, I'm like,

(13:52):
that's what I like. I can never figure out what
I like right till I see it. I just thought
saw a guy who fucking found a Viking treasure in England.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, with the metal detective You mean the Horde of Coin. Yes, yes,
well it's so funny. I didn't know that. So did
you know that metal detector is just something you just
like buy on Amazon?

Speaker 1 (14:09):
I had no idea. Yeah, Like I didn't.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
It seems like something I want so bad that it
doesn't make any sense. That's just like a thing you
can buy for like probably fifty nine dollars.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Oh, like you think the government issues them, Yeah, thousands
of dollars.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Where they're like you can't get a cheap one. They
don't work, you know, like they only work. So you
want to go with me to the fucking abandoned zoo
and Griffith Park, Well, yeah, and we'll go. And she
brought me a shovel and gloves. All right, Well, what's
your real what's your real one? If that was your
fake one? Okay, so then I changed it to a
kind of one that everyone knows and loves. But this

(14:42):
is going to be my favorite, and like I think
the most realistic answer too.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Okay, your favorite unsolved murder.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
My favorite unsolved murder is the Black Dah Yeah, yes,
oh my god.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
She was in my top three? Was she? Yeah? Was
the other one that you didn't do well, John Denney,
But I know we don't discussed her at length. John
Bene is the one that I want to know the
answer the most, and then the Black Delia second that
reminds me.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
So there was a conversation about black about John Benet
in the Facebook group called my Favorite Murder Everyone join it, Hi,
And someone brought a really good point up where they,
you know, the really weird the piece of that puzzle
that doesn't that doesn't make everything else fit, is that
there was a foreign DNA in her underwear. And someone
brought up the fact that there was some kind of

(15:30):
like you know, Reddit conversation where maybe that came from
the manufacturer of those underwear. Huh, Like, I think they
did some testing on other underwear from the same place
in China, and maybe that's where the DNA is.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Maybe it has nothing to do with the murderer. That
would be an interesting thing they But that must have
come up before, like underwear is usually what they test.
I'd never heard DNA in those You've never heard of
four or in Oh no, I never have. But wouldn't
you think that they would have they would rule that out.

(16:06):
I don't know, But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
I feel like there's so much bias in that case
that it maybe wouldn't have crossed anyone's mind.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Maybe it also, but it also opens that door to
the whole sex ring, you know thing that like it
might not have had anything to do with what happened
that night total, but something bad was already happening to
her anyway.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, well I would I would call that like outlandish,
except that she was a beauty queen.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
I know, it's like so fucked up. Yeah, that whole world.
I just saw a picture of her today looking up
my thing.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
And yeah, if anyone knows the answer, tell us, we
won't tell anyone that you told us.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, we just want to know. Yeah, if you killed
John kill, just email us a fake email address real quick. Yeah,
job's killer. Do just sign up for a hotmail real quick.
Hotmail's fine, and just be like, here's what I did,
Here's why I did it. Super sorry.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, oops, okay, so all right, so everyone knows the
story of Elizabeth Smart Short.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Where am I Elizabeth Short? The black Doll?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, she was found in a vacant lot in Los
Angeles thirty ninth in Norton if anyone is in LA
and wants to find it a house or school there.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Now.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
She was naked, cut in half. She was severely mutilated,
posed in the grass. She had no blood left on
her and of course the detective said it.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Looked like someone a medical man. They said that.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Laura Man with the vast medical knowledge had had mutilated her.
And so, okay, recently I watched the James Elroy documentary
about uh, it's called Feast of Death.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's basically a bunch of.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Men sitting around a table eating din or talking about
murder and death.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
All men, because why would a woman know anything? Like,
if there's no woman, they can really be themselves, right, Okay.
So I found that psychologist Alicia Lavere was a Herald
Express writer and she did a series of columns profiling
the whole case. And she profiled she identified the person

(18:17):
as a possible older woman who had either committed the
crime or inspired the person who killed her, and all
these reasons. It was like a psychological profile of why
it could be a woman. Is that person you were
talking about that wrote those columns from back then or now?
She it was from back then? Okay? And then John E.

(18:38):
Douglass he retired.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
There's a thing called the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit, which
like I'll intern, like you don't have to pay me.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yes, you know where they find where they're sitting there
going it's a single man between thirty and thirty five
cats his mom. Yeah, that kind of thing. Love it
love it. He probably works at this job for that job.
Yeah awesome.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
So he created a profile that kind of backed up
her theory that could have been an older woman who
would have done this or inspired it.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
And then finally, researcher Harry I'm sorry, Larry Harnish had
a theory that and he had written an article in
the La Times on the fiftieth anniversary, and he uncovered
a connection between the dump site on thirty ninth in
Norton Street and one of the suspects who's now a suspect.
And I think this is what James Elroy's thing was about,

(19:31):
that there was a sixty seven year old doctor.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Have you heard this theory before? I think, well, tell
me any love it?

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Sixty seven year old doctor named Walter Alonso Bailey. He
used to live in his estrange life wife currently lived
one block away from the dump site.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
WHOA, Okay, that's like interesting.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
What's more interesting is that Bailey's daughter, adopted daughter, was
friends with Elizabeth's shortz.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Why do I keep on the Saples was smart because
Elizabeth smarts.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
That girl that got kidnapped, Yeah, Elizabeth Schwartz sister. So
Bailey's some old doctor's daughter. They were so close that
this that the daughter was a witness in Elizabeth shorts wedding,
So that's pretty but there's no evidence that they ever met,
but you're kind of like they had. Yeah, okay, so

(20:26):
he was a strange room's wife who lived a block away.
He left his wife for a mistress named Alexandria Parteika,
who was also a doctor, and after Bailey's death in
nineteen forty eight, again the murder took place. At nineteen
forty seven, it came out that so he left, he

(20:47):
left this mistress all his money, and the strange wife
said it was because he had quote terrible secrets that
could have ruined him. Oh and people are guessing that
that maybe he was he gave secret abortions which were
at the time, and there was another theory a long
time ago that a doctor who gave abortions had accidentally
killed Elizabeth Shortt perhaps and that's where the murder had,

(21:09):
you know, that's why he had to get rid of
her body and not reported is that he was getting
abortions which were illegal. But there's no evidence to support
that she was ever pregnant, so we don't know that
for sure.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
But we do know that.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Elizabeth Short used to tell men, maybe for sympathy, that
she had a son who had died. And it turns
out that Bailey did have a son who had died,
and he died years earlier. But it was January thirteenth
and her body was found on the fifteenth. Oh so
I mean pure speculation, clearly, But she's pleading with him.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
To help her with whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
This person that her sister knows, her sister doesn't live
in town, she doesn't have anyone else who lives in town,
goes to the doctor of her sister's friend or father
was sister's friend. And then if it was a woman,
then maybe maybe she got jealous and killed this girl,
killed Elizabeth Short.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Maybe I don't know, you know what I mean? Yeah, okay,
let's see.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
And so so he was sixty seven he when he died.
They found out a degenetive brain disease he had and
it was known to produce a violent behavior in otherwise
passive individuals. And then one of the things was like, well,
how would he have moved her body? Well, the body
was fucking sliced in half. Yeah, maybe the body was
sliced in half for an older man or a woman

(22:32):
to be able to move.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
To carry one piece at a time. Yeah, why was
she drained of blood? Who knows?

Speaker 2 (22:39):
So, I mean there's little pieces of it that I
really really love. A Feace of Death is on I
think it's on Amazon, it's definitely on YouTube. There's a
little you know, fucking James Alroy is like he's a
bit of a dromaqueen.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, he's too, he's too dramatic for his own good. Well,
he has his thing with his own mother, which is amazinging, like,
it's amazing, he can talk about it total. Then it
does add this. He's very intense. It's very intense, so
you kind of like intense. Yeah, so his.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Mom got kidnapped and did they find her body or
they never find her?

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I think they did find it. Oh she was on
the side of the road murdered.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, and they think, who knows what the murderer was
never found.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
So he's clearly and he was a little kid when
this happened, psychologically fucked up from it. I've read a
lot of his books up until a point where they
like got too silly, right, where like the vernacular was
just too like beat poet. Yes, but before that, I
fucking loved his books and I read all of them.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
They're great.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, But this, I mean, it's still a good This
is a good program to watch by yourself at night.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
I remember watching something, and this is bad to bring up,
especially for our research heads. But there was something I
was reading, and it was the theory and maybe this
was a dramatized version, but it was like the theory
that they took her to a place to murder her
and torture her, because clearly she was tortured. What I
read when I was looking to see if I was

(24:08):
going to do the Black Tahlia, one of the things
I read really quickly was that she died from uh
an injury to the head, but also those cuts on
her face because she had a smile cut into her
face and the bleed bleeding out blood loss from those
cuts could kill you. Yeah, so she like just because

(24:29):
it was so much bleeding, So she was somewhere for
an extended period of time just bleeding and being tortured
because head injuries bleed a lot. Uh yeah, I think so.
But then but also like you know, cutting into your cheeks,
I mean that thing, and also just to find that
when I remember first, very first reading that story, and

(24:51):
it's that picture of her upper body in the you know,
in the angles of those are so disturbing. It's so disturbing.
And to think because wasn't it a mother and a child? Yeah,
it was a mom I think with a stroller walking
up on that thing. Yep. And they thought it was
a mannequin.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, And like there's a photo of it, of the
scene with her body covered with just her body covered
with a blanket, and it's like so obvious that the
bottom part of her body is too long to be
part you know what I mean. It's like they're not
something isn't right with the length of her body, and
it's because her fucking doors her lower body is like.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
And did you see that.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I'd never seen really the cut really well until today,
it's pretty exact.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yes, Yeah. And I think I wonder if if like
cops today would immediately assume it was like a doctor
or medical man that did it, because because I guess
these days people can do much more and not have
any training.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well you have to think of like, oh, a butcher
could do that, like a barber could probably cut like that.
With a straight razor pretty well, like, I think there's
a lot of profession that could do that, not necessarily,
but could they lead someone that well.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Right, well, a butcher could, A butcher could.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Can I tell you that one of my grandfathers was
a butcher in LA and one of my grandfathers was
a barber in La.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
So it's probably one of them. Well during the time.
And there's also there's a guy that thinks his father
did it. Yeah, that guy.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
And so that's the thing is that James Elroyd back
to his story too, and now isn't which you know
that house is just down the street from here.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Really, so this.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Guy, this guy found photographs in his like evil fucked
up father's possessions after he died, and one of them
was a photo of what he thought was the Black Dahlia.
If you look at it, it's clearly not it's not her,
I mean, but it's their similarities. And then so this
house that he had lived in then, which is in

(26:45):
Los Feeless, and this a gorgeous Art deco house, it's incredible,
had a secret room where this this father guy would
actually give abortions. Oh, and they had put he had
like hired someone to bring kadaver dogs and when he
was like investigating it, and they honed it on that area.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
But this guy's a little full of shit.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think he thinks his dad is also the Zoniet
killer and like he's since gone on to be so incredible.
But but however, the father did rape his daughter, as
did he like let other.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
People do it.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
She took him to court and he got exonerated. So
he's a piece of shit either way. The guy isn't
wrong about his dad being terrible.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Well, and it's probably very easy for him to see
and connect, you know, connect dots to things when it's
like and it would probably be very vindicating to be like,
he didn't just screw up our family. He's he's what
everyone fears. See what's he monster? Everyone? Yeah, he's a monster.
But also I think it's I think that's the whole
story is fascinating because everybody talks about like, oh, come

(27:51):
to Hollywood, take the bus from Iowa and find your dreams,
and it's that see the underside this very real, like
and here's the other thing that happens. Women are exploited
constantly and you get into a system of being beautiful
and hoping that men, you know, you're appealing to men
and then men will give you money and all these

(28:12):
things that it like that the culture kind of you know,
encourages their supports and but then if you get into that,
you're the one that gets punished for and maybe you
deserve to die.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
And like, you know, she wasn't a prostitute, which is
what they said in the beginning. She absolutely wasn't right,
but she did go out with a lot of men
because she didn't she would go out with them to
eat because she didn't have enough money for dinner. Like
that's what you know, That's what it's like when you
come to La to be an actress. Really, so that's
not prostitution, but it's almost like do you do you

(28:46):
it's the thing of like do you live the kind
of lifestyle that would put you at risk? And that's
that's one of them, and if you do, then it's
your own fault for eventually happening upon someone also didn't
know that her luggage she had her her luggage had
been checked at the Biltmore Hotel. Oh really, and she's
missing for five days, like there's no there's no the

(29:08):
last trace of her that anyone can can confirm is
on January ninth, and her body isn't discovered until the fifteenth,
so her getting kidnapped would make sense.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
That's so creepy. Unsolved murder. Unsolved murder, And isn't there
a movie with Josh Hartnett? And like Scarjo, it's.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Based on his on James Elroy's book The Black Dahliah,
which is a really good book.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
The movie was stupid, but I liked the book a lot. Yeah,
so go read that, So, Karen, I a question, Well,
mine is also takes place in Los Angeles. I'm gonna
settle in its cozy first story. I went on a
real roller coaster ride with this one, because there's, of course,

(29:56):
when you look at anything, you know like I know
what I I knew it, I had known about it,
but I swear to God this second you go on
to Reddit read it. There's just a world of people
who have already done so much research and you who
are obsessed.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I forgot to credit where I got a lot
of this time. Oh yeah, you got do real quick
deranged la crimes dot Com, which is like, that's the
best fucking.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Deranged la crimes dot Com.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Made me think of that because I'll Reddit, which is
like deranged and I love it.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yes, okay, so wait, that's a good website to go
to for stuff like that. Seems like it's a fun
like blog. Yeah, okay, cool, Yeah, No, this is I
just I had my assumptions and I was kind of
writing what I thought was going on, and then a
link led me to Reddit, and then it's just all
these people are like I already looked at that and dad,
and it's just here's why it couldn't be this, and

(30:45):
here's Yeah, it's fascinating. So this is the story of
Alisa Lamb and she is the one who She is
the twenty one year old Canadian student who uh took
a trip to She called it her West Coast tour.
She had been in San Diego, she was stopping over
in LA before she was going up north, and she

(31:08):
checked in at the Cecil Hotel, which is a hotel
downtown near skid Row that used to be fancy. So she, uh,
she checks into this the Cecil Hotel, and so her
she is by she's traveling by herself, and so she

(31:28):
checked in with her family every day and so the
last day that the day she disappeared. Basically, Uh, she
had gone to the last, the last bookstore, and I
had a conversation with somebody there talking about books she
was bringing home hoping they could fit in her suitcase.

(31:49):
So uh, basically, when the cops talked to that person,
it was like they no one thought that she wanted
to commit suicide or it wasn't anything like that. And
she was supposed to check out on February first, and
she never did, and so her family, her family calls
LAPD on February first and says, we haven't heard from

(32:12):
her in days. There's something very wrong. You have to
check this out. So they start looking into it, and
they on February sixth, they have a press conference where
they say, if you've seen this person, and they release
or no they have. They basically show pictures and they say,
if you've seen this person, let us know she's missing.
And then on February fourteenth, they end up releasing this

(32:39):
now very famous footage of her and the elevator at
the Cecil Hotel. Now, this is what I remember, because
I saw this real time and this footage was on
the news. I wasn't even I think the sound was
down and there's nothing creepier. There's no sound because you
were just watching it. I was watching news, but there
is no sound anyway, because it's like closed circuit I see.

(33:00):
So you look up and this thing is happening, and
this is on and it's it's like, have you seen
this girl? And this is the last known footage of her,
and she is in this elevator and she looks she
looks like she's it's halfway somewhere between her playing hide
and seek with somebody and her running from somebody because
she's she gets in the elevator, she presses all the button,

(33:22):
she puts her back up against the wall, then she
peeks out, then she jumps out, then she does a
little thing, then she comes back in. It's playful, and
it's not it's yeah, go on, yeah, it's just hard
to when when it's presented on the news, it's freaky
because it looks like someone's chasing her and she's trying
to get the elevator to go. It's chilling, and then

(33:43):
it already looks like a Japanese horror movie without the
rest of the story. Exactly, we've seen this movie before,
so then yes, exactly, So then five days later after
they released that footage, they had been the people working
in the Ciso hotel had been getting complaints from everybody

(34:05):
that was staying there that the water smelled weird and
had a weird color, and that the water pressure was
really low. So a maintenance worker goes up onto the
roof and checks the water cisterns that are on the roof,
and Eliza Lamb's dead body is floating in one of
the cisterns. Lisa, Well, sorry, Alisa, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Alas

(34:28):
or Lisa, Alisa, did I say Eliza?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
I said Elizabeth smart, So clearly we're gonna yelled at
by fucking so many people.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
We mean, well, it's it's a Lisa Lamb. So so
it turns out so as there as the cops are
trying to put this story together, one of the first
things that they learned was she was bipolar and she
was on like four different medications for her bipolar. So
the tape from the elevator immediately immediately puts into everybody's

(34:59):
mind She's being chased, she's being pursued, she's scared, she's
freaking out because it's so weird. Well, then then you
find out that she's bipolar and she's on this medicine.
And the day that she disappeared, she had been staying
in a like a youth hostel style shared room and
she got moved out of that room and into her
own room because the other women staying in that room

(35:20):
with her were complaining of her odd behavior. Yeah, so
she got moved into a private room because of odd behavior.
So there is a theory that she stopped taking some
of her medication, but she kept taking others, and she
was taking sudafed and that combination, like there's some antidepressants

(35:41):
or mood stabilizers, if you mess around with the levels
and add in like pseudo fed, you can have a
psychotic break. So there's people who think that that is
what happened. She basically was having a psychotic break, was
seeing you know, because you can have auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations,
and she basically got herself up onto the roof having

(36:03):
all that happen. In a manic episode, you have all
the senergy, you don't stop moving, and it would make
sense if she was messing around the elevator. So that's
one very strong theory. On Reddit, there's a person who
absolutely is like, this case is closed because the coroner
said that the death was drowning with this special circumstance
of bipolar like being the reason. But the thing is

(36:27):
the way she's acting in that elevator. You can only
see one angle, which is inside the elevator in a
little bit of the hallway. But when she turns one time,
she jumps out, and this is like two minutes or more.
It looks like she's talking to somebody up the hallway,
and she's not in the lobby. Sorry, I'm dying of consumption.

(36:51):
She's actually on the fourteenth floor of this hotel. Now,
as we all know, the fourteenth floor is the thirteenth floor. Oh,
they just change it. Yeah, and that and the Cecil
Hotel also is a hotel that over the years has
had so many jumper suicides that they stopped counting. Over

(37:14):
one hundred people have jumped off of the Seacil Hotel.
The fourteenth floor is also the top floor, so it's
basically a thirteenth floor hotel, and it's the it's the
hotel where Richard Ramirez, the night Talker, stayed in the
in the middle of his uh you know, in killing
spree in between San Francisco and La He stayed there
for a little while, a nice little hotel, and there

(37:38):
was another serial killer who was Austrian who stayed there
for a little while in the nineties. So yeah, there's bad,
bad vibes and bad juju. And also so until they
were saying there were theories that she had to be
with somebody because there was a lock, there was no
access to the roof and it was alarmed, so people

(38:02):
would have known if she had gone up there. But
then there's a footage and this is the this is
why I love redd Is because it's like so thoroughly researched.
There's a Chinese tourist who posted footage where he walks
from the fourteenth floor up to the roof, up to
the cisterns and there's no alarm, there's no lock, there's

(38:23):
no anything. I feel like that that had to be
for the hotel to not be liable. They said that
exactly right, yeah, because the parents were suing the hotel
to But the just the weird thing is, I mean,
like there's so there's lots of people on Reddit who
are saying, you know, like that they had had manic
episodes and when you when you're there, you get these

(38:44):
ideas in your head and you have a lot of
you know, you have a lot of energy and strength,
and you you know, you don't think obviously it's you know,
you're it's mania. So it made a lot of sense
to them that she would like suddenly see those cisterns
and be like I'm gonna get in there and swim around,
or whatever idea that she may have had. Plus, I think,
like I think, just because there's something as alarmed doesn't

(39:07):
mean that whoever turns off the alarm or notices it
is gonna then go check and make sure everything's okay,
Like those are right, you know, in a fucking shitty
hotel where it's probably understaff, the alarm goes off, person
in the lobby does the thing to turn it off,
and that's it, right. But more likely that's where because
they were saying, that's where a lot of people went,
like employes went up to smoke, that there was no

(39:29):
alarm in the first place.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I bet, I bet even if there was, there was
a prop opening the door holding the door open for
people who smoked.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Sure. The other thing is, when you see these cisterns,
it like it's not like how I first imagine it,
which is like one of those big wooden ones you
see in New York roofs. It's four metal like ten
foot tall containers that are like they almost look like
they look like something from from the war whatever, where

(39:57):
they almost look like big bullets. So the idea that
you would look at that and be like, I'm going
to get into that there's water in there, like, that's
weird to me. You wouldn't look at it and be like,
I'm going to go swimming. It just looks like a
big it's a bunch of tanks. You wouldn't know what
was in there unless you had knowledge of that somehow.
So there's to me all the things like taking everything

(40:20):
into account my own theory, because immediately when I first
heard it, I was like, oh that's you know, there's
there's natural supernatural supernatural. Maybe probably not. I mean I
do love the idea. It's like it's basically a death hotel,
but then definitely foul play, yes for sure, but going
up there like the idea that she would have the

(40:41):
idea anyway, My theory is that I just don't, Oh,
she got in, but then when they removed the body.
They had to cut part of the top off to
get her out, so which which doesn't add to anything
necessarily one or the other. I just think I just
think there's foul play only because I just think, Oh,

(41:05):
because if somebody is having like is off their meds
or has a thing, I think that it's like a
wounded animal in the forest. It doesn't That doesn't mean
that people are going to be nicer to you or
take care of you. I think that means that if
there's people around that would would be uh yeah, I'm sorry,

(41:27):
Oh what Sorry if I start, you just got so
mad at me. I was looking for a thing that
I had seen on that I know, that's fine. I'm
just trying to say, if there's people around that would
harm you, that that would actually be an attractor, if
there's somebody acting weird, being weird. And then you're also
in this murdery residential hotel where there are poor people

(41:50):
that live there. Yeah, it's a really bad neighborhood too.
It's not like it's a hotel like down you know
anywhere in La this is it's like a literally a
block from skid Row. Yes, it's in the worst part
of La that you could be.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Even the walk to the last bookstore is sketchy. Yeah,
from that hotel, Yeah you don't.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
I mean everything about the surrounding area is dangerous. If
you're acting weird and you're kind of setting up those vibes,
it's just a it's a bad situation. So yes, she
could have like the mania. There's a lot of people
who felt very strongly of like, this is exactly what happened,
but also it's just such a perfect thing of like,
oh well, it's just this girl by herself who suddenly

(42:30):
is like not okay, that's the second somebody notices that.
All they have to do is look out their hotel
room people and be like, oh, Le'm gonna go see
if this girl wants to go take a walk on
the roof.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
One thing I thought was interesting that I found on
Reddit was that in the video, she's wearing someone's shorts.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Did you see that?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, someone was like those it looks like she's wearing
a skirt, but they're clearly like board shorts or like
cargo short and though and they clearly weren't hers or
what the kind of clothes she wore because she was
like a fashion blogger and really in a fashion. Oh
and did they find her clothes outside of the tank.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
No, but she was naked in the tank, but everything
it was in there was with her.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
In Okay, So I guess. I mean, who knows. I
could have been explained. Maybe she stole them from the
hostel she was at. But the shorts that she has
on in the video are a guys our guys shorts. Yeah,
so yeah, maybe she met someone staying at the hotel.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Also, and fuck, I know. And there's definitely no drugs
in her system. No drugs in her system, and yeah,
and and yeah, and all the all the things that
would explain that, like alcohol, drugs, she went to a
bar that night, but all the things that people all
the theories of people saying maybe someone drugged her, that's
why she was acting so weird. It doesn't it's they're

(43:52):
not in her system. Yeah, they would have clearly done
tests for that. And here's the really irritating part. They
took a rape kit, but they never processed it. What
because they just figured, what's the point since we since
we know it's she did it, basically, so kind of
never know. It's it's a little bit the perfect murder
in that way if that's what happened, because she's in

(44:15):
the water, nothing, there will be no evidence on her
body and did it Can they tell exactly how long
she was in there? Was she in there from the
night of the video? Yeah, she was in there for
like three weeks, so you probably.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Can't find a ton of evidence after your body has
been in the water that long.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
No, I'm really sorry.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
I was looking up this thing that I wanted to
tell you while you were telling the story that there's
there was some tuberculosis drug.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Did you see that? What is it that it's the
same as her initials. It's it's the it's called the
Lamb Eliza test, right at least Lisa, the l I
I S A. It's an S, not a z uh.
That there was an outbreak of tuberculos on skid rowe.
That's just weird coincidences, just.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Like the weirdest coincidence I've ever heard of in my life,
that there was a test or something called the Lamb Alisa.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah, it's just her name, it's her fucking name. Yeah,
what the fuck is there's a world there's a couple
of other alleyways that I'm not going to go down
now because I don't know them well enough. But you can.
All you have to do is go on to Reddit
or go on to YouTube, and people have like talked
through all of them that are like there's about like

(45:30):
invisible cloaking and like all this different stuff, just theories.
Do you ever? Did you? I watched the video with
my face so close to the screen to like try
to see any abnormalities or anything weird. Well, but here's
what is interesting. That the the numbers on the tape
whatever that's called the timecode on the tape is distorted,

(45:52):
and they don't know if the cops distorted it or
the hotel distorted it, but there is a full minute
missing in the tape. I want the people have studied
the time the messed up time code enough to see
when it clicks over to another minute, but like whatever,
so they it's this. The tape itself is really really weird,
you know what it is.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Another thing about the tape being weird that I thought
was really interesting was that she's pressing all the buttons
and the elevator never leaves or closes the.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Door because she's pressing the elevator hold button, which people
have gone there and tested it will hold it open
for two minutes. So she presses, she's on fourteen, so
she presses fourteen, ten, seven, four or whatever. She goes
right down the center and elevator hold. So it's you
can't figure out if she's playing a game, if she's

(46:43):
trying to get out of there as well as possible.
There are some people say that's what you're supposed to
do if you're afraid somebody's following you, because then they
won't know what floor a you got, They don't know
where the floor you're on, and every it'll open every time,
so you'll have every chance of seeing somebody else. I've
never heard that. Yeah, that is fucked up. And the
other thing is they sped. They slowed the tape down

(47:05):
when they released it to the public. It's actually one
hundred and twenty five percent slower than it should have been.
So when you speed it up, I don't know, it
looks creepier when she does, like the hand movements and
stuff totally. And they don't know if it's just to
make get people's attention or to make it look weirder

(47:25):
than it is or what.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
But maybe like if there's some splicing in it. You
wouldn't notice it as much if it were slower.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Exactly, if there's a minute missing, then you wouldn't notice.
It's like, okay, on your do you think that she
looks scared or that she's playing a game like in
your heart of hearts? Well, I think, but I also read.
My initial reaction was fear only because she does that
thing where she puts her back up against the wall.

(47:55):
But then there wasn't There's a website that's like based
on bodyline which breaks down where she's very calm, her like,
her body is relaxed and everything she's doing is playful
and relaxed, and it looks like there's a lot of
flirting body language within the movement, or that she's playing
with a kid like almost like to me, it was

(48:17):
like she's playing with a little kid, yeah, and trying
to amuse a child. It's very childlike. Although there is
one part where they specifically say this is like flirting.
This is definitely a flirting movement of like she puts
her hands up, but then she like reveals her armpits
and it's like a whole thing that's very it's like
sexual preening is what they call it, so they and

(48:38):
it's the and she's looking up the hallway, so that's
exactly where you can't see the person. Is she looking
where the door to the water tower is or is
she looking the other way? I wonder. I don't know
that would be good to like go and stand there.
But I think in the Chinese guys, I mean it
literally is all in Chinese. I have no idea what
he's actually saying, but when he does it, he just

(48:59):
walks to out the elevator and up, so it looks
like there's another you have to walk up more stairs
to get up to that, or that the elevator doesn't
go up to right. Interesting, Yeah, it's not like right there.
I mean those places are never locked and they never
have fucking alarms. To me, I think ultimately there is
a good theory with the The messed up videotape is

(49:20):
so overt and it's so weird and like why would
you Why is it edited? Why is it slowed down?
What's happening? Why can't we see what's in that other minute?
They tacked on just the elevator opening and closing at
the end to nothing, so they left on footage that
no one needs at all, but then they took out

(49:41):
a minute in the middle. That doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Do you think that's one of those things that they do,
or it's like they take something out that only the
person involved would know in case there's ever any any
person comes forward with information, and it can be like, well,
I mean, maybe she threw something, or maybe she like
maybe you know, she did an extra thing that only
the person she was doing it too or with.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Now maybe, but then why why not just use fifteen seconds?
Like why Yeah, it's it's being sold or presented as
if it's continuous and that's what's weird. Oh right, like
something else the thing is gonna happen, Yes, And to
me it just it adds up to or to me
it points a finger. I believe it could have been

(50:25):
a manic episode where she just found herself up there,
and that's definitely possible, but it doesn't seem that probable
to me. It seems probable that there's another person involved,
and that that person works at the hotel totally, so
he doesn't have to be around her at any point
during the day, but he sees her at that one
point a night and does something and then puts her

(50:46):
body where no one would find out. Oh okay, so yeah,
possibly I get it or lures her in there. Was
she able to get out on her own when she
got in there? Maybe I lured her in there and
then she couldn't get out, so she did drown technically,
But it's foul play. Well, but it's like he would
be like he would already be in it, you mean no,

(51:08):
or have been like let's go swimming in here. Oh,
like it was his idea? Yes, possibly, but then why
would she throw all her stuff in there? Oh? God? Like,
why wouldn't if it's like a skinny dipping thing just
leave it? So all of her shit was just in there,
in there with her. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he
threw it in after her fucking closed the door and
later could have been that. It also could have been

(51:30):
if it was her idea by herself to go in
because she wanted to be in water. Once she's in there,
it's hard to tread water with ris take your clothes off. Yeah,
em I just saw this thing about this woman. I
think it was in Japan where she fucking got locked
in an elevator for thirty days and starved to death. No. Yeah,

(51:51):
like they went away on a Christmas vacation whereber the fuck?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
And they were supposed to check the elevators and make
sure no one was in there and they didn't, and
like there was a woman fucking like that's the thought
of being in a water tank.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Oh yeah, I wish I had again. Right now, I
just kill myself. Do you think all the electricity was off?

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I think they, like, you know, when you turn it off,
you turn off the elevator shows to stop working. And
she's just in a black box for thirty days. Who
knows when she died, but when you die of starvation
and so probably, Oh that's pretty quick, actually, is it
like seven days? Yeah, that's a fucking long time. That's
a fucking incredible story. It's a I want to know

(52:33):
what happened.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
I too. Would you rather know Jean Benet orly Slam Joe?
Would you rather know Black Dahlia or early slam Joe? Yeah,
me too, also black DOLLI I feel like it's going
to be disappointing because back then you could kill people
much easier. Yeah, Like, and also I think if this

(52:57):
if Elisa's story is that it was just this manic
episode and she just what about lost her shit, it's
just the total tragedy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, and then I'm only in it for the like
what character. I'm in it for the like, well, that
could never happen to me. And if it's like someone
killed her, they're like, well I can avoid that. But
if it's like, oh, she just fucking lost lost it
and like thought it'd be fun to go like I
think that. Yeah, before, of course, I just sounds swimming
in stupid places.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Before you want you want to go up high, You're like, oh,
I want to see the city. You're like, I'm alone
in this big city and this is like my first
time away from my family. She's also at the really
good right page.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
For for uh, what's it called the Crazy People Schizophrenia?

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Yes, yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
That's like around that age, so she might have been
having some some symptoms to begin with.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah. I mean when I first saw it, I was like,
bath salts totally, she ate bath salts.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Oh she got bath salts on skid row and fucking
jumped in the tank. But I doubt it so bad.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
I mean a lot of people on read it were
just talking about how carefully you have to be when
you have mood stabilizers and like antidepressants, and I didn't
know that I'm on both of those. Yeah, I didn't
know that. Yeah, you have to be careful. So just
you have to do exactly what the doctor says. Okay,
I don't do that. Should we read some favorite Oh
you have a recording? Oh that's right. I asked my

(54:18):
friend Karen Anderson, who does Doug Loves Food, the Doug
Benson food podcast. She's the co host, stand up comedian, writer,
a friend to all, and she, I asked her. We
grew up very close to each other. Oh really, she
grew up in Nevada, which is the town next to
you Pedloma. You are right for fucking crimes, yes, and

(54:39):
apparently she got a good one, so she left me
message today. You haven't heard it either yet. I have
not hired her. The first five seconds to make sure recorded.
Let's see, so here it is.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
I. Oh, Karen, this is Karen. I'm here to tell
you about a murder that took place. It took place
in nineteen eighty and Vato, California, sleepy little town. You
might have heard of it since the next town over
from your house. It was a terrible thing that had happened.
My sister's friend had moved to Nevado with her stepdad,

(55:16):
you know in the stepdads in the picture, and in
a murder situation. I think you know who did it. Anyway,
her and her sister and her mom. They moved to
to Nevado and they were there for two years, and
my sister got to know this girl, and the dad
and the mom got a big fight, and I guess

(55:37):
she said she was going to take the kids away
for a while or something, and he ended up keeping
them hostage in their house for five hours, and you know,
threatened to kill everybody. But finally, I don't know what
happened to set him off, but like the mom, he

(55:59):
shot at the mom to times. She got away, she
ran away out the back door, and then he went
up the stairs to the girl's bedroom when the older
girl was holding the uh, the little oer girl I
think they were fourteen and ten, holding the younger one,
and the stepdad killed the uh shot the older one

(56:20):
in the back of the head a couple of times,
and then I don't know if he tried to shoot
the little one, and then and then he shot himself
on the stairs they found him on the stairs, and
the older one died my sister's friend, and then the
little one survived and the mom survived. Is from what
I remember. And uh, anyway, I hope that makes your day.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
All right? Wow? Oh oh man, that ten year old
is just fact that that's a that he's a horror movie.
That's like the Stepdad horror movie.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
There's so many thoughts that go through my head, and
mostly for the survivors and the mom's guilt for running.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I'm guilt. What was she supposed to do? Like she
ran to go get help. And also she'd been shot at,
Like that's a fight or flight, that's reptilian brain. Yeah,
Like he was clearly going to kill her. He just
she got lucky. But it's like, why did you leave
your kids? And it's like, oh, oh my god. Well,
and also they're upstairs. She can't get past totally. She

(57:29):
would have been killed trying. And it's like, what is
she going to run up there and lead him to
chase after her into the kids rooms? Maybe she was like,
if if I run out of here, he'll come after
me and leave the kids alone. Yeah, probably, I mean,
or who I don't think anything you're in shock, you
don't even know what you're doing. Horrible. How that breaks
my heart that the big sister was like trying to

(57:50):
protect a little one. I know.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Yeah, my first thought is like, just kill me too,
Like I would just want to be killed too.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah, that's awful. Well, also there's that thing too, when
people survive things like that. I have to say. The
bad part of me is like, oh, he killed himself
on the stairs. Good, thank god. Oh for sure, that's
what he should have done. He should have done it first,
because then that fucking ten year old would be going
to parole hearings for the rest of her life making

(58:19):
sure he didn't get out, and always be a little
bit terrified that he was going to escape or fucking
get out or you know. Yeah, him being dead is
the best outcome of this story, Yeah, for sure. Which
it's like, do you believe in the death penalty? That's
such a hard thing to say, But I believe in
you fucking killing yourself. Yeah, you do it yourself. Yeah,

(58:42):
Although then it's like he escapes any kind of punishment,
I know, But god, I know the choices. I know.
It turns out life is hard, it's diff and I
think the things that fascinates me is like, yeah, that
was one hown over from where I grew up. Crazy,
I've never heard that story before. It's insane. I had

(59:04):
no idea that that even happened. The fact that that
her she was friends with the it's friends, I know.
It's just like it's it's you're a step away from
it totally, Like what if you had spent the night
that night? Yeah, exactly? What if she spent that night
in your house that night? Yeah? Or what if then?

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I think, I like, what if those things have happened
where it's like you just will never know that, Like
you almost died that night, but if you haven't spent
the night at this person's house, you didn't.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
It's kind of like there's that it has a metal
detector feel to it, of like what's underneath? What is possible?
Or what's there that I don't know? Is there? Yeah?
That's that's way why we love metal checkters. I wonder
if that's a normal thing for people who love true crime,
is being in a metal detecting probably right right. Investigative investigations.

(59:50):
It's almost it's like you know a minority report where
it's like the futuristic idea, like you can know something's
going to happen. If you can know that you just
missed some crazy shit happening to you, would you want
to know? I don't think it'd be good for you. No,
I don't think so either. But at the same time

(01:00:11):
I think about That's all I think about is what's
going to happen? What did I What did I miss? What?
How do I avoid this? How do I avoid that?
So I think about it all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Anyways, it'd be nice to be like to have some like, yeah, yeah,
you're right, so you can be like, okay, good, this
is what if you were so right all the time,
you were just like, jeez, cars just keep crashing through
sucking windows while I'm sitting next to them. Do you
want to let's read, Like maybe we'll both read one
person's hometown before you mean, before I die, before you

(01:00:42):
die of disease?

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
So we always have you guys either email us at
my Favorite Murder at Gmail on the Facebook group. We
have a Twitter my Favorite Murder and you tell us
your hometown murders, which we love. And but this time
we said tell us tell us your favorite unsolvedmur do
you like that better? Or do you like, so you
want to do one home hometown and I'll do one

(01:01:04):
unsolved that's not hometown, or should I look for a.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
I think this one that I have is is unsolved. Okay,
I think that's just by chance.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Okay, I think the one I have is just her
favorite murder that's unsolved.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Okay, you want to go? You wan mean to go?
You go? Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
This girl's name is Lauren. We also told you, guys
we would stop saying your full names.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Don't worry. Sorry, sorry I didn't. I did not think
about that at all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
I'm like, doesn't everyone want to be fucking louden and
famous and for real?

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Yeah? Just because we're favor Horris, people are like, could
I have a little bit of.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Prev Yeah, we talked about your stalker and then we okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
I like though that a lot of people have adjusted
in like in it they're they're signing it like just
with their last initial, where it's like, oh, thank you,
you're helping me. Sorry, guys, we want do that again,
Yeah we won't. So Lauren s She says, the one
that gets me is the boy in the box. Oh yes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
In nineteen fifty seven, a boy believed to be at
five year about five years old, was found on the
side of the road, wrapped at a blanket inside of
a fascinette box, having been killed by blunt force trauma
Worst Way to Go. He was freshly bathed, fingernails clipped,
and his hair was crudely cut. He had an old
medical related scar. He had old medical related scars in
addition of fresh bruising and signs of past trauma. He

(01:02:23):
appeared to be malnourished. Now wanted to ever come forward
to claim him or with any possible explanation of who
he may have been. He's also known as America's Unknown Child.
Fucked up, sad shit. Now, didn't you tell me?

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
I thought we talked about it on here that they
found DNA evidence to figure out who he was? Did
I do that when we were it was the beginning,
It was at the beginning of the show update, right.
So I just saw this one because I was looking
up unsolved murders and he came up. There was illustrations
of how what he look like when he was found
in that I mean clearly he was either in a

(01:02:56):
foster situation. It was in Chicago, right, It was in.
I thought it was Baltimore, okay, phil or Philadelphia, gay
somewhere we can get just lost in the system. But
also two different people found him and didn't report it
before the final person did the fuck you guys. I
think that like a hunter found it and then didn't

(01:03:18):
say anything, and then then second person waited a full day.
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
The thing about him being found in a bass in
NetBox is that that makes me think either at a
home for children or a foster.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Yeah, like crowded foster house or crowded foster where they yeah. Yes. Television,
Hi Kiaren and Georgia. First of all, I love a show.
I love true crime, and I wish I had friends
like you to talk about it with. Well, now you do.
This is from Alex h uh so Okay, So this
is secondhand story my mom told me recently. She grew
up in the Rochester Spencerport, New York area, and she

(01:03:52):
lived there when the three Alphabet murders happened. Just a
little background in phone case you weren't familiar. Three young
girls were raped and strangled in Rochester, New York, and
they all had double initials, and their bodies were all
left in towns that started with the same letter as
their first and last names. The three girls are Carmen
Cologne ten disappeared November sixteenth, nineteen seventy one. She was

(01:04:15):
found two days later in Riga, New York, near Churchville,
twelve miles from where she was last seen. Michelle Mayenza
eleven disappeared November twenty sixth, nineteen seventy three. She was
found two days later in Masadon, New York, fifteen miles
from Rochester. And Wanda Walkowitz eleven disappeared April second, nineteen
seventy three. She was found the next day at a

(01:04:37):
rest area off of State Route one oh four in Webster,
New York, seven miles from Rochester. These cases were also
connected to another set of double initial murders in California.
One of the victims there was also named Carmen Cologne.
I don't know much about these in parentheses same name. Yeah.
There were a few suspects over the years, including Kenneth Bianki,
who was ice cream vendor in Rochester and who later

(01:05:00):
became one of the two Hillside Stranglers. Another suspect was
Carmen Cologne's uncle. My mom was in third grade at
Holy Redeemer Catholic School when she when the first murder
of New York happened in nineteen seventy one, and she
was in the same class as the New York Carmen
Coloone's younger sister, Angela, and she had been at Carmen
and Angela's house just a couple of weeks before the

(01:05:23):
murder for a birthday party. Even if you don't read
this on the show, you should totally talk. Even if
you don't read this on your show, you should to
only talk about it on your show because it is
some really freaky shit. You're exactly right, Alex, that is
too nuts. I would Karen go change her fucking name,
Karen Kilgarriff. It would have been later days. How many
people change their name in Rochester around that time? Do

(01:05:44):
you think I've had a second double little girls with
a double letter, because that meant research. That guy was
that was like, what do you work at a school?
Did you work? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Maybe he was like I worked at a school. That
The weird thing is the towns that he left them in. Yes,
that's some fucking OCD shit.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
It's weird and it's you know what that is? That
is the kind I'm the most interested in. Is that
tricky hooked in Like that's that seven oh kind of
stuff where there's theories and whole there's whole storylines going
on that no one even understands or knows about. Well,
that's what you want them murders to have, because then
it is so much more interesting than there's just some

(01:06:26):
fucking creepy, gross dude doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
And so it's like, Okay, here's we just need to
solve this. And it's a really smart person doing all
these things. I mean, it sounds it sounds like an
obsessive thing that maybe the person doing it doesn't even
want to be doing it, but feels like a compulsion
to do it. Yeah, you know, like it's like you
know how OCD people are. It's like you're you're setting
things right by doing these things over and everything.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
You're like or you know how sometimes it turns out
where it's like their sibling who was who died had
double the double letters, you know what I mean, there's
some weird they're they're acting out something else that had
already happened. Their mom was abusive and had double letters
or letters. Don't do it. It's so random it's so

(01:07:13):
random and yet very specific.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
I mean, what if it is it sounds I mean,
if there was a serial killer, a now known serial
killer living in that time, in that area at that time,
I mean, it's probably him by.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
I mean that's a very strange thing that that would
happen there. Although he didn't. They did like teenage girls
and older Yeah, but maybe these are little kids separately
they did that. Maybe it was the other one's inclination.
Oh right, it was an Anthony Blono's preference to do
the older lady. He went along with it. But like,
oh guys, because this has been heavy, we really want

(01:07:51):
you know, what I want more than anything is not
to have any more topics to cover on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Like I just want this to turn into like a
we start talking about like tea. Let's never do that because.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
We run out of murder to talk about, you know
what I mean, Like they just stop murdering. Have you
ever had Moroccan men? Yeah? Oh, it's great to sip
while crime rates go down, crime rates plummet, and the
world turns perfect. Yeah round us. I mean it's a
little overpopulated. I'll give you that. Thank you, President Trump. Yeah,
you've really solved all our problems by locking people up
before they can murder people, just getting rid of everybody day.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
This is a long one, but I think it's been
chock full of fun stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Probably snip some stuff out in the middle. Yeah, where
can we find everyone? We can find them on our Twitter?
Oh yes, on Twitter. On there's a Facebook group. If
you go there, you have to ask to join it,
so don't lose faith. You just have to what do
they do? Click something?

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Yeah, just say approve and then I approve them. And
that's just so you can talk with impunity. Oh and
you know it's a private group because we don't want
your sister to see that you're in a group called
My Favorite Murderer.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
Oh but yeah, but there's nothing to do. You just
have to asked to be yet. You just ask, you'll
be let in immediately. Uh yeah. And then there's the
Twitter and then there's my Favorite Murder of Gmail to
send us your hometown Murdersge we love, we love, I'll
be I'll get better so that I'm not dying of emphysemo. No,
it's time we record. It's sexy and phasema super sexy.

(01:09:21):
Thanks for listening. Guys. Thanks everybody. Don't go on the
water tank. Bye.