72 - Steven It Out

This week, Karen and Georgia cover Larry Eyler aka The Highway Killer and The Pillow Pyro of southern California, John Orr.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
I am welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
That's Karen kil Garap, that's Georgia Hart's talk. And here
we are looking at Stephen Ray Morris as if to say, hey,
how what's up with you?

Speaker 1 (00:38):
With you? And that's what the podcast is all about.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Two people trying to talk at the same time the
same words. Thing.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yep, I can't, I can't. I can't either. The finger
does help either. We're bad at this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm bad at improv I'm bad at what other people want.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
We were bad at this podcast is because we couldn't
say the same things at the exact same time.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, that's what makes you bad at podcasting.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
And every article are like they're okay, but they can't
say the same word of the same.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
So time, oh shit, times.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Another if you listen to episode what is the seventy
what is this student?

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Seventy two?

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Seventy two? I know, Stephen, how do you know? How
do you know that?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Because I'm in the in the email, I'm the the
info email.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I don't check that. I know.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
I get over It's funny how you and I both
just get overwhelmed at different things and so we do
the thing that we're not overwhelmed by and the other
person just like doesn't pay attention to do it. That's right,
Like you are you're the description person and the naming
of the podcast person, and who gets back when people
are like, hey, do you want this podcast to be posted?

Speaker 1 (01:51):
And I'm like, no, I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I can't do it. I don't want to be in this.
And then you're the march person. You're the magazine person. Well,
mag you get us all the magazine subscriptions that we want,
better homes and gardens, sunset, popular mechanics.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
If that were my job for this podcast, so I
would be sad. You would be sad to get magazines. Here.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I got you a copy of from four months ago
of Psychology Today. It's right here. Thanks four months ago.
I kind of have been sleeping on the job.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
That's so nice of you. Well, I guess i'll read
it now, would you. Okay, let's Stephen, can you edit
this out?

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Okay, and we're back and welcome Karen.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
How is Psychology Today time? I?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh, oh, I thought you meant we're back starting over?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh hell no, we never start over.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
God, that's a good magazine just filled with advice.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Is actually a really fucking good. Mind, it's good.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
You're like, don't be sarcastic about psychology today, even for
one moment.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Talk to me, thou dare you talking about my magazine
that way? I got my mom a subscription to that one.
You're being like, listen, can you get your.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Fucking shit together? How you read this? Did she do it? Yeah,
she loved it. I don't think she understood.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
I don't think she is self aware enough to understand
the messaging that it was pointed.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Sure, although she did text me.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
We got in a fight like a week ago, and
I was pissed off at her, and I tweeted something
like the hardest chab in the world is raising your mother?
Thinking that, knowing that she doesn't read Twitter, she's not
on Twitter. My dad wrote back, you're telling me. I
was like, you know, Marty, Marty. But then when we

(03:31):
were making up, like a couple days later, she wrote,
and I know how hard it is to raise your mother.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
And I was like, oh, belt it. Do you think
Marty threw it in her face?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
No, I think she saw it. You think she checks
nowa wow shit?

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, But I can't imagine she listens to this podcast.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Uh, well, if she does hate Janet Janna. What's up,
par best friend?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Remember when we partied in Chicago together and wed a
good time?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Where were we I go?

Speaker 2 (04:00):
No, we were just Chicago twenty sixteen. It was Christmas. Uh,
oh my god. I'm sure we've talked about this on
this podcast, but one of my favorite things that's ever
happened to me is.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
The night before our show we got in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
In Chicago twenty sixteen, it's December to christ shame got it.
I'm there, my sister, Adrian, and Audrey.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
The four of us went out to try to eat something,
but it was kind of late at night, so nothing around.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
It was fucking freezing. It was like fifty degrees. It
was in windy, so everyone shut up from everywhere else. Yeah,
Randy fifty, that's nothing. I'm from Alaska.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
We don't care. No, there was wind everywhere. Listen, I'm
on the north pole. That's nothing. It's Inarwal.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
One.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
The other guy's like, what a dick?

Speaker 3 (04:52):
The other Narwal come. We get a cartoon of a
normal saying that, and another on going.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Like what a dick? Shut up, you dick. Bye, mister Norwal.
I'm completely ripping that off.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Her melf.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Okay, but oh I didn't know it.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, let state your sources. We go into a Walgreens
and we all buy hats. That's how cold it is.
We're California girls. We had no idea our layers weren't
going to work. So we start walking just trying to
find anywhere to eat, and we find we walk in.
We walk in, it's freezing, and we're like basically fighting
the elements. And finally we're on a corner and I

(05:23):
turned to this girl that's standing next to us on
the corner, and I was like, Hey, do you know
any like even a diner anywhere at a restaurant that's
open around here? And this girl, she was like in
her probably mid twenties, maybe even a little older you
maybe a little older. No, I just need for this
to come out of her mouth. She goes, I don't know,

(05:45):
but you know you can do you could google it.
But she wasn't being sarcastic, like that's something my sister
would say to me with so dripping with sarcasm, where
I'd be like, oh, you really got me. But this
girl thought she was giving us grade advice. She was like, oh, oh,
but you know, you could do. You could google it.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
I try to google. I was like, oh my god,
you're so right.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Have you ever have you ever said that to someone
in in a sarcastic way where it's like someone will
be like, you're like, here's my address to get to
my house, and like what's the cross street? And then
you're like, I don't know, let me google it, and
then you google it and tell them no, I've ever done.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
That that specific exchange.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
It's mean, no, never mind, you're saying reverse it and
be sarcastic.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
I get you.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yes, I've never done it. I'm positive I've well. I
mean like that's just saying, have you been a bitch
in a certain way?

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Absolutely here is to be a bitch. Have you done it?
Uh huh Yeah that was you're saying a hot of
me just now.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, no, even that was bitchy anywhere on that bitch
color wheel, I've been there to times twenty.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
I mean it's a beautiful rainbow. I like it. There's
subtleties or shades.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, I mean oftentimes it's necessary, like the way I
answered the girl who sincerely told me to google a restaurant,
and I was like.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Thank you. In a way where she's like, you're welcome.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
I walked away thinking she'd made a new friend, where
I was like, I just tried to stab you with
my words.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
But okay, her brain was frozen. It was really cold.
Her brain was frozen. She was probably shit face, shit face.
I'm just really good at covering it up. Oh, any,
do you have any actual business?

Speaker 1 (07:20):
No?

Speaker 3 (07:21):
I met a couple of murderingos at the Ryan Adams
show over the weekend that were really nice, cool that
weren't like that were really cool, cool, shook hands, that
was business.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
They were nice. Thank you. I'm in Oh did you
meet the executive of GM? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (07:36):
We shook hand and my strong, firm handshake. Had a
glass of really expensive whiskey. I don't know what I
would say the name of it if I knew what
an expensive glass of whiskey was called.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
I don't know. McClellan's. It's one hundred and eight mcmoney's.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Mcmoney's threw one hundred and eight on there.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Business.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Let's see my favorite murder My favorite murder shirts. Hats
are on sale until Monday, the twelve hat sale.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
I don't know. It's summer. Do you like a hat.
She likes fucking not getting skin cancer on your face.
You know what? I love get a hat.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Oh you weren't asking me, but I do love not
getting skin cancer, which does run in my family.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
I also lately have been landing my haircuts so.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Greasy over the weekend, throwing a hat and go to
you know anywhere, really but like go to.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
The grocery store, drive around. I'm not there yet, can't
do it.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
I'm really slowly working my way into hats. Maybe someone
told me Alex ugly in them once.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
I don't know. Probably something something happened and I didn't
mean it like that. I know you did it. That's
why I didn't say it, but it would have been
really funny. It's like why they laughed, but they probably
didn't say that. We've all been wanting to see. That's
the shade of the bitch scale. I don't even realize
I'm on it. That's the gray part, Like red Nard

(08:53):
did not mean it like that? Well, I meant where
you saying still is affecting you? Were they wrong? Can
you argue it?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
No? I mean it like things like that. I feel
like that's my sister. My sister's voice gets into my
head because I can't wear a hat with like, I
definitely can't wear a hat with earrings because immediately I'm.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Like, oh, hey, I left eye Lopez, Like, it's.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Too many accessories on your head. Yeah, but I have
to wear glasses. Can I wear a fake beard? And no, Nope,
that counts accessory?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Okaye, Patch, I'll try it, because I think that you
look like Hollywood star trying to cover her identity when
you wear a hat right at the grocery store.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
What's bad about that?

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Nothing?

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Get into it?

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Like, live your life and you just don't have to
wash your hair or get.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
You in cancer?

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Right?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Always good? Have you considered a different time? Are you
thinking baseball hat right now?

Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm specifically yeah, yes, trying. I just can't. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
I have a picture of you wearing a hat way
over to the side.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Are you trying to call me out? Well, no, I'm
I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Were we in like a thrift store or were you
just doing it for the sun?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh when in the actual sun when I'm sweating and
don't give a shit what.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
I look like? Okay, okay, bye, this.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Is my favorite son at I wasn't later. Do you
have any business.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yes, okay, there's a woman in Australia, a murderino who
went onto a game show no Americans ever heard of,
which makes this difficult because.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
This doesn't stick.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
If somebody had texted us and said a murderino was
on Jeopardy, right, we'd all have shut our pants and
freaked out.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
But everyone in Australia is like shutting their pants and
freaking out.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
And they're like a murder veina.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
It's on the chase, that's my accent.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
What's it called the chase?

Speaker 4 (10:51):
The chase, It's called the chase, and I have it
right here. What's her name again, Natalie Krugg.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Okay, this is Natalie Kradle. She's a contestant on the chase.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
You Natalie Krug listen, murdering knows. If you want to
get above someone beat this.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
I don't know. I'm kidding. I don't care. You stay
safety and don't get murdered. Its murder murder. It's two
very funny ladies. And californ I talk about the murder.

Speaker 5 (11:29):
Crime not and now they just chat about it and it's.

Speaker 6 (11:35):
A different show. Yay, Sephany, I mean that is so
fucking surreal. I can't believe it.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Don't get murdered. Murdered? How'd she say, don't get madd meded?

Speaker 3 (11:54):
No?

Speaker 1 (11:55):
And then everyone else, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Stay sixty, don't get madded So cool, it's amazing, it's
so wild.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Thank you so much, Natalie. I called her Stephanie, did you? Yeah?
Thanks Natalie.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
It's so crazy. We love our fans. Stephanie.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Stephanie, you mean the world to me, Stephanie. No one's
not Can you give.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Me a clean Natalie and I can just okay, punch it.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
In, Natalie, Notalie. Do pee wee Herman from mister Herman.
I'll do the thing, do the.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Do the thing.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh yeah. Whenever there's someone talks about corn.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
I always say, can you say Mays? And then Karen
fucking blows it up by saying.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
This is Paco and his wife. I'm na's that one's
no basement in the Alamo.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Everyone, But the first one is better because it's like
it's really obscure, you know what I mean. Like the
first time I said it, we're yes, we're quoting He's
Big Adventure. And the first time I did it, the
delight on Georgia's.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Face that I also knew a line from Pee's Big
Adventure to the Like to know where it went in
the scene was you were thrilled.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
But everyone like everyone knows the line I was saying,
everyone knows a thing in the Alamo. But then you
took this obscure line and said it perfectly to something
I've been saying forever, which is, can you is it?

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Can you say May's? And then I was just like
like I was like I was being pushed in like
a shopping car, and all of a sudden, you know,
just like this is so cool. Well, and also I
think I explained this to you.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
But my friend Jennifer Gary and I, who was my
lifelong friend, I haven't seen her forever because she lives
in DC.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'm sure she doesn't listen to this, but by Jen,
I love you if she does. But we grew up together.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Our families were friends, or our parents would hang out
together and like get together, and then Jennifer and I
were just the two youngest, so we would pair off
and go have fun.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
But she's the greatest, like we.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Saw uh rated is the last arc in the theater together,
like all of my all of those major moments of childhood,
I had with Jennifer Gearing, and of course we saw
Hughey's Big Adventure in the theater together, and so we
just spoken movie quotes constantly, so we would just when
we were bored or there was nothing else happening.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Got kids.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
This is before social media. What you did was just
say movie quotes back and forth to each other like lunatics.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
That's how my brother and I have communicated, like we
hated each other, and then the Simpsons have started happening
and married with children, and then like since then, he
and I've never had a conversation that isn't a quote.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
From one of those two, like we generated.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, yeah, we just can't do that. We have like
a secret handshake. Yeah it's that's from group of family
therapy though, but we have this. Oh that's real. I
thought you meant the Simpsons quotes were the This secret
handshake is from when we had to go to family therapy.
Wow yeah, wow it actually yeah, okay, it was good.
It was great because we made a secret hand shake

(15:00):
and then we hated the therapist together and everything was fine.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
That's good. And then you have like comedy bonded. Yeah, good, sweet,
so good. What were we talking about we're.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Talking about Natalie murderd it Nick mid its sixty. Don't
get mady there it is.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
There was something else, I'm sure Stephen.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Well, I was like saying, speaking of Australia, Oh yeah, Australia.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Thank you, Steven.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
We should always do announcements, pretend we never remember them,
and Stephen always has to tell.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
Us something jumping now. I mean I have the dates
to tell me.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Do it. You do it, Stephen, but do it, like
really build it up and try to sound like you
work on the radio.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Try to sound like a K rock DJ. That's where
we get some professionalism, Steven, Stephen.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Please Monday Monday, No, yes, Monster truck Rally.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
Oh wait, Rodney like Monday Rodney on the rock, Yes,
Ridday Day, September fourth, Brisbane, Australia. I can't do that.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
It's too late now do Judd? The fish?

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Oh my god, the fish like br right, like yeah, crazy,
like he talked like he had a weird stomach issue,
like I don't like that.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Say it like everyone's favorite on radio personality Stephen Ray Moore.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
Yes, that's my real voice. Whereas I oh, Monday, September
fourth in Brisbane, Australia at the Tivoli. Oh yeah, the Tivoli.
Thank you Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
I can't Yeah, you did it. That was it Wednesday.
Can you just tell us on the fucking show?

Speaker 4 (16:43):
September sixth and Auckland, New Zealand at the Bruce Mason Senate,
Bruce Mace and Center, the Bruce Mason Center. Friday September
eighth and Melbourn. Yes, at the Comedy Theater.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Just the Comedy Theater. It's just the okay, the big one.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
And then on day September eleventh in Sydney at the
inn Wore Theater at the Opera House Okay, yeah, and
the pre sale's going on right now, and then general
on sale is thank you is Tuesday, June thirteenth.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
I just got honestly, that was sincere excite pig. So
I'm like, oh, that's a legit Australian thank you.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
My favorite Murder dot com slash live is where you
get all this shit right, Yeah, there's links and such.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
My favorite murd dot com slash live. Yeah. Oh my god,
we're going out.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
We're coming for you, Australia, please get ready, coming for you.
I'm so excited, so excited and New Zealand. It's going
to be Bernana's Elvis and Mimi are gonna come.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
They're no, we're going to bring these big crates.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
We're gonna bring and then Steven's going to be their nanny,
their overseas nanny.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
He's going to be taking them. They get their own
adjoining suite.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yees. Stephen has to ride with them and where the
pets go on the plane though, because I'm just worried
about leaving them alone.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Cargo.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah, you have to put Steven in a creating carbon Yeah,
otherwise the cats will be scared.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
He's like crying, laughing. This is his dream comes. So
he's like, that's birthday. I want my next birthday. O.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
Hey, technically it's my birthday today Georgia, but not until Thursday.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
But when when people hear it? Ha day, Yes, podcasters.

Speaker 6 (18:26):
Birth No, thank you, thank you Elvis leaving Elvis what
that was my best version?

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Thank you guys, Happy birthday.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
What's your what's your birthday resolution for the coming year
for you as you're in this new age.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Live it, love it, learn it right, learn to levitate.
You're on fire here, it is.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
What if I did all of those things that would
be such a waste for a podcast. I'll be like you, guys,
I swear to God, she's levitating right now. You're all right,
I promise learn to what what's something you'd see on
a podcast?

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Here?

Speaker 1 (19:10):
On a podcast to talk about your feelings? Lebanon? We
have a Lebanon podcast.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Oh, yes, you're you should start talking about your Lebanon podcast. Okay,
it's called throw a rock at it?

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Is that racist?

Speaker 2 (19:25):
I think that might be problematic in some way, Stephen.
I mean I didn't start that war, guys. So that's
all our business. Right, We've made announcer. It's all our business.
And then some and then some actually, and it was
none of your business. This was the none of your

(19:46):
business corner? So should we talk about murder? Are there
any shows we didn't watch?

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
I'll tell you what, Tell me what? What I have done?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Quite a bit of ben joy you as my hair
was getting greasy and I have to go to the
store with my split p Anderson's hat on.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Hell yeah, girl, thanks, I love that little thanks. That's
my little fake thanks. I have four pillows and you
have one?

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Thanks?

Speaker 2 (20:18):
The wait?

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Was I telling you?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So I was digging deep on Netflix because I mean, God,
bless all of you for still making suggestions and tweeting
suggestions at me. But there's people who are tweeting things
like have you seen Luther girl? The girl that tweeted
at me? Have you seen Luthor.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Girl? Yes? Like, yes, I've seen fucking Luth. I haven't
You've never seen Luthor? Huh huh, oh shit, I've seen
a lot of stuff. I really, do you care for
eadriselbat All? Yes, of course I care for him deeply. Okay,
then you need to get into that. It's an amazing,
amazing thing.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Well, so I was trying to go a little more obscure,
and there is a show called Murder Book that I have.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Oh I like that one. It's so good.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, it's the one guy right that's on it. Yeah, yeah, No,
it's not a murder book. Is what they call a
thing about the case?

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Exactly right.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yes, so it's almost kind of a cold case thing,
but they just call it something different because it ends
up being about cold cases.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Because they go back to the murder. But I love
the opening sequence of that. Isn't it creepy?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (21:26):
You know why?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I think it's creepy because I think it's models. It's
all those files.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
If you're listening, please watch the show.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
It's very well done and it tells real good stories
or true crimes, cold cases, whatever. But it's just produced
really well and they have a lot of the people
who really work the case.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
It reminds me of the detective one that we were
talking about on Netflix, but real detectives didn't. Weren't you
watching one about the occult that I tried to watch
for three minutes and you couldn't into it?

Speaker 1 (21:54):
You know why?

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Okay, that's a cold crimes And I think it's because
it's produced. I think a French company produces it because
they have a lot of French talking heads that then
are dubbed over so you see their mouths moving, but
then there's just a voice coming from nowhere that's talking
over them.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I think it's more than I think occult crimes are stupid.

Speaker 6 (22:13):
I really do.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
It's the same thing with like ghost Hunters. It's like, well,
the occult isn't a thing. It's crazy people making it up.
So I don't care.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Okay, you know what I mean. Yes, although I love
the occult, I really do part of it do you
love the mystery the outfit.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Grown up goths, Like yeah, convincing crazy people to do
insane things at their bidding.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
What is the bad part of what you just said?
It's so good people do it, that's the thing, you know.
I don't know. Okay, I don't know. It's just not
for you.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
I guess it's almost like it's the same thing too,
where it's like there's something I really like that idea
if you take the occult part out, So like Jonestown,
I think it's cool because it's this bigger than life
person was able to convince all these people to do
things for him or to do you know, the same
thing with Manson's interesting too because he was able to
convince all these people to do things.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
And it's like you're under lay cold.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
But I love so Satan too, and Satan's real and
it's like, no, he's fucking that.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
And then I get struck by a bolt of light.
How funny would that be? Smoke just starts coming up
from behind the couch. It was so weird too. Georgia
in her apartment just got struck by lighting.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Ranting and ranting about how Satan isn't real until he
was forced to show up.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Mimi got on her hind legs and her eyes rolled
back in their head and she started. She was like,
I will take you to the dark place. Now say
me me. Hear me wrong. We were so cute.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
It's so funny because you'd picture her with like a
girly voice. She actually has a very deep satanic voice.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
And then Elvis's like, I fucking told you this whole time.
I was trying to warn you guys that she sucked.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
It sounded like you wanted Elvis to have a New
York accent, like a cold told you fucking told.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
You, guys. This has gotten way off track. Skippers come back.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Oh, this was fun because we were talking about a
lot of people actually recommended a could crimes. That's how
I found out about it is because people were recommended.
I'm sorry that I should on the girl that recommended Luther.
I adore you for tweeting at me. I didn't mean
you be tweeted at me because I don't know it,
that's right.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
I just ended up putting a Kia furniture together last
night and watching Kimmy Schmidt's pretty.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Nice, so good. I love that shin I do too.
I really love it.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's so goddamn packed full of jokes, so good, brilliantly written.
And also it's a kin to Bob's Burgers in that
when you watch it, if you were in a bad,
low place, it's up up, up.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
It makes you feel happy. I'm so hilarious.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Titus Andronicus should be the president of the United States America.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I would be so happy. It would be so much better.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Okay, So all right, girlfriends who are playing this podcast
for their boyfriends on a road trip and we're like, no,
you're gonna love this podcast, come back to us.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
We that was good. I agree.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Okay, boyfriends who were like to hit their girlfriends, I
was also sexist.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
What I just said, this is the best part. Get
ready for the boring part. Yeah, here comes the boring part.
The point of all of it.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
It's not how you get there. It's how you show up.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
It's how you get in your car and drive there
and then drive there. Audi four people who wanted to
get to the point.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Oh yeah, sorry, you guys were going to start doing
car integrations during the podcast. You'll never know it's coming.
We're just going to suggest to you to buy a
certain type of car.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
And we get a free one Audi. One dude, I
love an Audi or a juguaramembering. A crow flew into
your car there.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Okay, if you read that, I tweeted it, and I
hate to be the kind of person that talks about
their tweets and conversation.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Nobody reads tweets. Now that's true, people who'd mine. No.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Georgie and I are driving to our show that we
did with the women that do the show Wild Horses
here in out Los Angeles.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Like storytelling then and then impropts show and it's fucking
awesome and so amazing and hilarious, funny women.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
They're so great, So we got to go do that show.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
We were their guests were driving there together talking blah
blah blah.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Think I'm playing delay. Yeah, it's just like live in
life like La Girls. Yeah, windas are down. Yeah, it's low,
almost like a summer day, blood and blah.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Out of my perferal vision, like basically the corner of
my left eye goes dark and I'm like, uh oh,
we're an emergency situation.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
I turned my head and a crow no joke.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
The wingspan was like four feet wide, looked like it
was trying to make a dive landing into the car.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
And it's only because you were going like one mile
over whatever we were going. Yes, that it didn't fucking
fly directly into the car. Yes, I heard its wings.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
I know it was.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
And like it took us a few seconds when we
passed it, and then you go, did a crow just
try to live into our car? And I was like,
uh huh, definitely happened. It's a insane Yeah, it almost.
I was like it was that crow sick?

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Was it like you have to take me the hospital
right now? Like it seemed desperate? Let it hang out
with us.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
It was like, oh my god, I loved you light,
Oh my god, I love talking about nothing.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
You guys, I'm a murderer now because it's in a
murder of crows.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
That's right, something the ridge. I mean it, it's pretty funny.
So a lot of people had that response to the
tweet that it was a murder of crows.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Well, fine, sorry again, not attacking Stephen. Who's going first today?

Speaker 1 (27:37):
It's you?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
I think?

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Does it mean? Yeah, Karen's right, I was right about
number seventy two. I am fucking on this ship. Well,
the problem is Memi's entire body weight is on my story. Okay, sorry,
go ahead. She looks so shocked. She's like, how dare
you pull your story out from under my body?

Speaker 3 (27:55):
This is the Highway Killer or the Interstate Killer. Now,
this is a serial killer that I had never heard of.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
I'd seen this.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Photo before, but I've never heard of him. And I
found the like pretty straightforward story, like he killed this person,
then he killed this person, then he killed this person.
You know, like the story and it was so devoid
of any details that when I started looking into it
and suddenly it's like, no, this was way fucking bigger
than you thought it was. So we're kind of learning
this together.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Can I guess which state it took place in? Yes, Texas?
You were wrong? Fuck, because it took place in a
lot of states. Oh yes, I see. You tell me,
all right, I will. You don't want to make it.
I'm not going to guess the whole story.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
I thought I should, but now I don't want to
just guesses.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
From nineteen eighty two until nineteen eighty four, a serial
killer was killing young men. He was dubbed the Interstate
Killer because his victims were mostly random hitchhikers twenty to
twenty three were dead before he was caught.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
The victims were.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Stabbed, and they were bodies were found in parts of Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky,
and Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
What yeah, so the first really thought I knew this
and I do not know it at all.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
You know his face? Okay, this is crazy, Okay. So
Jay Reynolds was the first victim. He was found on
March twenty second, nineteen eighty two. He was found stabbed
to death on the outskirts of Lexington, Kentucky, and all
of these okay. Nine months later, on October third, fourteen
year old Delvoyd Baker was strangled. His body was dumped

(29:36):
on the roadside of North roadside north of Indianapolis, and
Stephen Crockett, who was nineteen on October twenty third, was
stabbed thirty two times for those wines were to the
head discarded outside Lowell, Indiana. So then the killer goes
to Illinois and on November sixth, he leaves the body

(29:56):
of Robert Foley in a field north quest of Juliette.
Juliet law enforcements is like, oh, there's a pattern, right,
assaults on young men which back then we know, wasn't
something that would look very deep like if you look
at any of these interstate killings of young men, not
looked into very deeply. So stabbing and strangulation are present

(30:21):
in every case. So then, on Christmas of nineteen eight
eighty two, twenty five year old John Johnson's body is
found dumped in a field outside Bellshaw, Indiana. Three days later,
twenty one year old John Roach is discovered near Belleville,
and then the bound body of twenty three year old
car wash employee of from Terre Haute. His name is

(30:43):
Stephen again Aga and Egan, Stephen Egan. He'd been stabbed
to death and discarded north of Newport, Indiana. So then,
on June sixth, nineteen eighty three, an anonymous caller tells
cops that he knows who the interstate killer is. He
says that someone he knew had been picked up and
attacked by the killer and had played dead after being assaulted,

(31:07):
and so he knows who the person was. The man's
name was Larry Eller, sorry Larry Eller, and he's arrested.
Can I say his name correctly when you steve it
that out?

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Stephen? That out his name is? Could you Stephen that
out the thing to leave that all in just for that,
so actually leave that. Holy shit, step Steven that out. Please.
I just ruined this.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
The man's name is Larry Eller and he is arrested. Okay,
let's talk about Larry Eller. He's born in Crawfordsville, Indiana,
on December twenty first, nineteen fifty two. By the time
he was a teen, his mother had married and divorced
four times.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Oh that's too many. It's too many. He I mean
that's fine for like what so like every three years.
I was just trying to do the X.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
He attends Catholic schools, has some difficulty. At ten years old,
he sent to a Riley Child Guidance Clinic in Indiana, Indiana,
where psychologists or psychological tests revealed normal intelligence, but extreme
insecurity and great fear of separation and abandonment. You know.
The staff of the clinics said that his home environment

(32:18):
was unstable and chaotic and recommend that he be sent
to live elsewhere. So, at the age of twelve, he
went to live in a Catholic boys home. Oh no,
I know where he stayed for five months.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Little did they know? Little or did they know it?

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Was later said by a forensic psychiatrist that his history
was one of the worst cases of child abuse he
had seen in twenty years in the field. Oh no, yeah,
so there's not a lot of details about it, but
they like hint at things, but they don't go too
deep into it. Like you can't find details except for
one thing about one of his stepdads would pour hot

(32:54):
water on his head when he was like mad at him.
It's just like that's all you know, and horrible. But
there wasn't a lot of other information about it. So
he dropped out of high school in his senior year,
worked odd jobs for a couple of years, and not
long after really leaving high school, he joined the monastery,
and then he quit the monastery. So Larry Eller is

(33:16):
struggling all his life to cope with what turns out
to be his homosexuality. So he was simultaneously fast fascinated
and repelled by it. He hated himself for it, but
he couldn't help himself.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
I bet the Catholic Boys Home did a lot of
good for that issue. I bet you're right. Yeah, that
was all sarcasm. That was total sarcasm.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
So he killed his first victim at around thirty years old.
Larry was arrested for the assault that the anonymous call
Her call Her had called in, but the case was
dropped when Eyler gave the victim money and the victim
was like, find him out of here, which is totally understandable.
You don't want to relieve this whole trauma for no reason.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
The bodies of young men then continued to be found
throughout the spring of nineteen eighty three, with most of
the action shifting to Illinois. By July second, the body
count stood at twelve. Some of the victims had been
mutilated after death, and a few had been disemboweled.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Whoa Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
The thirteenth victim was Ralph Khalisi, and he was found
on August thirty first, dumped in a field near Lake Forest, Illinois.
He had been dead less than twelve hours when he
disappeared and was discovered. He was bound with clothesline and
a surgical tape, stabbed seventeen times, and his pants were
pulled down around his ankles. Then, on October thirtieth, nineteen

(34:43):
eighty three, in Indiana, a highway patrolman spotted a pickup
truck parked along the Interstate sixty five. Two men were
walking towards a bunch of trees. He stops them. One
was bound, and when the officer went to investigate, he
identifies Larry Eyler as the owner.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Of the truck.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
So the cop catches him as he's about to lead
someone into the forest.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
Bow already yeah, and the guy says, he told me
he'd give me money, you know, for.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Sex. He asked if he could tie me up, and
we were walking out towards the field.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
So the guy at that point was actually it's voluntary
because he thinks, oh, I'm just gonna get paid, yeah,
and I'm fine to do this.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
So then when the officer searches the truck, he finds
surgical tape, clothesline, and a hunting knife that's stained with blood.
So Eyler is taken in for questioning, and when the
forensic experts check the blood, they match it with that
of Kalisi, who had been found previously. They were also
able to match the tire tracks left at the Kalisi

(35:50):
site with that of Eiler's truck, and police are like,
this is enough to put him behind bars, but they
let him go while they continued the investigation.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, they can't just hold him.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
No.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, So, while the investigation continued in the caliseum murder
Isler is set free. Then, on October fourth, nineteen eighty three,
fourteen year old Derek Hanson is found dismembered near Kenehosha, Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Kenosha, thank you sorry, fourteen a.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Lot of young young kids. Eleven days later, a young
John Doe is discovered near Renelsier, Indiana.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
That one I don't know. I only know Kenosha because
my friend grew up right near it.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Okay, that was a good one, so I've heard him
say it Renslaire Renzilaire.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Spell it r e n s s e l a
e r. I got lost of the two s's rensilar
lair Rensselaire. Is it bear? I got that one wrong.
That was not What was it baxer? It looks like
but it's spelled with an X in the middle.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
That it's like it's pronounced bear last Like you're just
changing the rules of reading.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, then you're actually you're wrong. It's not last week.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
You want to call the mayor and tell them that
he's wrong. Well, guess what I am the mayor. I
just made myself the mayor. She'll just took off a
mask and revealed that she is, in fact the mayor.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
That's true, they did it, Okay, okay. Almost two weeks later,
another John Doe is found near Effingham, Illinois, and two
other victims, Richard Wayne and another unidentified mail were found
dead outside of Indianapolis. Then October eighteenth, nineteen eighty three,
a couple is hunting for mushrooms at an abandoned Indiana farm,

(37:36):
hanging out. They're like, we've found mushrooms here before. Let's
get somewhere, right.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, for either for a salad or to trip out
all day long. Yeah. Whatever this couple is into is
their business. Their business. They've been there before.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
They're not there to hurt anyone that are there to
find two skulls lying near a dilapidated barn.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
No, so we can at least assume that they were
stone on pot. Yeah, they're out looking for mushrooms and
they're freaking out, man, and then they stumble upon like remains.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
That's awful.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, those poor hippies, I know, Nan. It actually turns
out that they're also businessmen. Well, turns out there the murderers. No, no,
so many twists. They're also business men murderers.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Oh my god, finally that's the that's the area I
want to I want to go into. It's all of it.
I want the murders that happen inside of the Enron building.
Do you think I mean? I mean they got there
has to be at least one, there has to.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
There were so many people in that building.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, everyone was like like on a lot of pressure. Yeah, okay,
they had to either sell or buy or toill that
buy or kill on lifetime. Yeah, oh, write it down.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
I don't know. What about a grocery one called sell
by dead, you know, like a cell and then it's
like so by colon dead dead.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
I love it. I love this.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Okay, we can keep working on that one. But the
other one about Enron is purfose sold it? They sold
it already?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Great?

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Okay, there's an abandoned Indiana farm. They find two skulls
lying together north of the barn off Us Highway forty one,
just across the Illinois state line in Newton County.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Way to go in Newton County. Yeah, how simple you
are to pronounce and read? Thank you.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
I'm only doing murders from places that are just one syllable,
it's two syllables, just town something.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Town, no ex'es, nothing, no double s's.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
When police get to the scene, they then find two
other bodies whoa and you're that barn. One of the
victims had been decapitated and all had their pants pulled
down and they had been stabbed to death. Two of
the victims were identified Michael Bauer, which is my friend's
ex boyfriend's name. He was a twenty three year old
pizza deliverer, last scene taking out the trash at his parents'

(39:58):
Portage Park home, which was what a fucking bummer? Yes,
And John Bartlett, who's nineteen, who was staying with his
sister in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
After being discharged from the Army.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
I know.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
By this time police were like, this is clearly Larry Eyler.
They fucking knew it was him. Another victim who had
survived his attack identified photographs of Isler, and another survivor
came in and was like, yep, happened to me too,
But the investigators wanted him for homicide, so their circumstantial
evidence was still incomplete, so they wouldn't arrest him.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
So Larry Eyler at this point is under constant surveillance
in Chicago, and because of this, he files a suit
against the Lake County Sheriff's Office, accusing them of mounting
a quote psychological welfare. Nope, psychological warfare, not welfare. That'd
be a good thing, campaign to unhinge his mind, right, Yes,
that's what they do.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
That's what all the police are trying to do to
this one guy. Yeah, who happens to also be a
child blessing murderer. Yes, his claim for half a million
dollars is denied.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
What Yeah, he's not the victim in this scenario. Turns
odd and.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
As he's leaving the courtroom, Isler is arrested for Ralph
Kalisi's murder.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Wow, that's sweet ass timing on those police people's part.
They were just like, Oh, yeah, you want to go
in and try to you want to try to sue
the city. Okay, go ahead, we'll meet you out here.
Don't get too soaked yet, though, Karen. Yeah, he's held
in lieu of a million dollars in bond. But in
the pre trial hearing February fifth, nineteen eighty four, all

(41:34):
the evidence recovered from Eler's truck the night they found
him with the guy who was bound gets excluded. Why
because the night that they found him in the truck,
they held him without arrest in the the in the
jail for over twelve hours.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Oh, which you're not allowed to do.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, you have to have a reason to hold him there.
That's really arresting him. So he's really on bail. I know.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
It's a real bummer, man. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
It's crazy when it happens when it's a serial killer.
It's not This isn't a shoplifter. H It's not like
someone's rights were slightly stepped on. Who was you know,
like a slum lord or something. Yeah, bad, very bad.
But this is the person who is out a predator
that's intentionally killing inn and people.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Overy day. Here's what gets Iman Morris is now he
goes on to kill a bunch of people, okay, after this, right,
because they couldn't hold him.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Right.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
So, on May seventh, nineteen eighty four, twenty two year
old David Block was found murdered near Zion, Illinois. His
wounds also was the pattern of everyone else who had
been killed already. Okay, So then August twenty fourth, first,
nineteen eighty four, a janitor of an apartment house in

(42:54):
Chicago goes to take out the garbage and empty the
garbage can, and they're overflowing with gray bags, like nice
gray trash bags.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
And this guy, uh, his.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Last name is Bala. He's like, those trash bags aren't
my tenants used? My tenants used cheaper bags. He knew
they weren't his tenants because they were nice trash bags.
It was like, my tenants are pieces of shit. They
don't buy this stuff. They don't buy Hefty, they buy
fucking nine acent store shit.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
So it made him suspicious, and he says, quote, I
was very pissed off a little bit, so I opened
one up, ripped it open.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I was very curious.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
What the hell am I throwing out? He says, Can
you imagine what his accident was? Sounded like, this is Chicago, right,
it's a Chicago.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Janitor. Yeah. And the building manager, Yeah, who gets pissed
about garbage?

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (43:46):
What am I throwing out? I just want to know.
I just want to know you're putting your garbage in here?
I want to know even what's the accent.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
To Chicago and I'm throwing it the garbage?

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Well done?

Speaker 5 (44:00):
Get angry though, and thrown at the fucking garby cheer
stealing that out That turned over into Triple Chicago.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, that was amazing. It's just like harder axent is
angrier yep.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
So of course he's opening the bags and guess what
a leg slips out, No, to the ground. Yeah, so
eight within eight bags are the remains of fifteen or sixteen.
I can't tell you're old hustler Danny Bridges, he's like

(44:38):
fifteen or sixteen. He's a child sex worker hustler. You
know the streets of Chicago back then. Can you imagine
seeing a fifteen year old like work in the streets and.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Stuff in the eighties?

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, probably in the nineties too, Let's be honest, like
I can't write up till today. Well, so, Danny Bridges
is a known sex worker by Chicago Police Special Investigation
Investigations Unit. They had been established a combat child pornography
and the sex abuse of children, and they actually had

(45:11):
worked with Danny to get his story to people who
were advocating for teen sex workers. So there's a couple
channels doing new stories. I guess there's a video of
him talking to them, like doing news news stories. I
can't find them, and I would fucking love to see them.
This kid looks so like he just looks like he
knows too much about life. So teen years old, Yeah,

(45:35):
he's a freshman in high school. Well I don't think
he goes to school at this point.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, I know, just the equation of like if he
had rich parents, if he grew up in Evanston. Yeah,
and was you know, had a little eyes od sweater
on and was listening to fucking the Specials. Yeah topsiders,
maybe quiet.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
So he was warned by the Chicago's by police to
stay away from the sky from Eler. Like, everyone is like,
stay the fuck away from the sky. We're trying to
get him. He's a murderer of Yeah, people, you know,
stay away from Okay. But later, one member of the

(46:19):
Special Investigations Unit acknowledged in the book What Cops Know
by Connie Fletcher, that the unit encouraged child prostitutes to
have sex with adults in order to make a rest,
as in, they would set them up like a sting operation, right,
which I know is super inflammatory, but it's in this book.
I didn't say it.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
The quote, well, that was basically the practice was they're
using these children as baits, so they can get these
bad guys. It's the only way they can actually lure
them out.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Right. They can't use legal people to do it, even
though it was completely.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
But ethically they should be using evidence that's not putting.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
A child at risk.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
And that's the like a yeah, I guess even if
it was like someone who was of age and they
were working with the police for some reason.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
But this is just like so dark and deep.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well, these days they would just use people who were looking.
It would be a twenty one jump Street Yeah, sex
worker edition.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yes, and so he said.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
The quote from the SIU investigator says, our opinion is
that you should go out and find the crime. What
better way to prove and have him What better way
to prove the crime than to get it in progress
or to follow someone home and have him go to
bed with a kid. This is what this guy said
in this book. Yeah, eighty two, eighty four, eighty this

(47:39):
was this book was written in ninety one.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Oh no, I know.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
So it seems that they acknowledged that the unit encouraged
child sex workers to have sex with adults in order
to make arrests. Right. So, and it also Danny Bridges
was needed to testify and pending child pornography trials. So
this kid was like deep in it and he gets killed.
So in one of the NBC videos, a reporter asks

(48:06):
in nineteen eighty four, asks Danny Bridges about Eiler, and
he says, yeah, I knew him. He was a real freak.
He used to come around uptown and hang around. So
this kid, Danny Bridges knows about Eyler and the question
then is why would he go home with him if
he already knew he was a creep. So Danny Bridges
is going to get into a car with a guy
that he knows as a creep? No, unless maybe he

(48:27):
was doing it for the police. Oh, is kind of
the question, right, which is one, Yeah, it's like literally
live bait, like worst case scenario, and it was never
I mean, this is just like something I found in
a bunch of little articles which I'll name at the
end of this. So so perhaps the whole thing was
a sting that went wrong, because Danny did get killed.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah, so how the fuck does that happen?

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Like you, that's so that's the craziest version of that
story where it was like like if the cops were
using him as bait, then what excuse in the world
could they have to then somehow.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Lose track of him, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Like that would be the only if you're letting a
child get into the car with a known serial killer,
you can't like, oh, whoops, they took a wrong turn.
I mean, like that's insanity.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Well, here's the other part of this that gets in
here somewhere is that they think that Larry Eyler might
have had an accomplice. Oh, because Danny's fingerprints were never
found on Larry Eyler's car, so maybe someone else picked
him up brought him back there.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
I know it's really complicated, Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
But also usually isn't it rare that serial killers would have, like,
have an accomplice or work with someone else?

Speaker 1 (49:41):
I would think so, But who knows.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
I mean, I'll ask, would you ask, I'll ask my friend,
Oh that's my friend at the FBI.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Would you ask your accomplice, your serial killer accomplice, Oh
that's my boss, that's.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
The guy you're working with to kill people.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
H Okay, So witnesses, you know, after they find the
boss the body parts in the garbage bags, witnesses say
they saw a man a lip next door put the
bags in the trash and he is Isler, who's thirty
one years old at this time.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
So he just took the garbage to the place next
door during the day.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
He wanted to get caught, or he was just really stupid.
So Larry Eiler is convicted of murder and he of
Danny Bridges. And my lord, she's been real, She's all
over the map.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
He's convicted of murder and aggravated kidnapping of Danny Bridges.
In October third, nineteen eighty six, he sentenced to die.
Then in November of nineteen ninety he's bargaining to save
himself from execution. He agrees to help Indiana authority solve
a number of his crimes if they would get him
off death row. So he confesses to the killing of
the aigin torture slang and surprise investigators by naming an

(50:55):
alleged accomplish.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Accomplish, I keep saying words wrong today.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
I don't know what's going on with me. I'm having
a stroke. It's all right, accomplice. So fifty three year
old Robert David Little, he's the chairman of the Department
of Library Science at Indiana State University. And this murder
of Agan happens when he's staying with with Larry as

(51:22):
a guest, and according to Eyler, Little took the photos
and masturbated while Larry disemboweled the victim.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Oh so he's like, let's pick up boys. You do this,
I'll do that.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
So he's like part of it and it's kind of his.
Like this guy, doctor Little is like his sugar daddy.
He's like paying for his places to live. He used
to be a student of doctor Little and they're like
working together.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
What the fuck?

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Yeah, it's some real twisted shit that they better fucking
make a movie out of because he's a he's a
professor of library science.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
So there's like a real that you could make that
super creepy in the Stack's style murder story.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Who would play him? I'm already wondering. I mean, are
you watching far Ago? And how amazing? What's his name is?

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Ewan McGregor, Oh my god? But the woman I don't
know her name offhand, who's also in the Leftovers? Yes,
she's amazed, she's good. I have two characters are so different.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
I am loving Mary Stuart something or other.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Not Masterson, Mary Stuart Little, No, Mary Beth, Mary Beth,
Mary McBeth.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
It's Mary macbeth from the play. I am loving the
young hot girl though, are you caught up? Yes, you
mean the one she's playing who's also playing the sheriff.
That's not her or the police chief.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
I mean the girl at the short black hair. Yeah,
that's that's the Ewan McGregor's the dumpy brother. His girlfriend
is the same as the chief. Hold the fuck up. Yes, no, no, wait,
I'm the one that gets to tell you this. I
told this to Vince and he's like, no, well, Devince
is straight up wrong. No, yes, I mean I almostn't
yelled at Stephen Vince. We're getting a divorce, Steven.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Is this true?

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Mary Elizabeth Winstead is that you're thinking of?

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yes, she's playing both characters.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
It doesn't say on the main Wikipedia page. But if
you go deeper, we go deeper, hold on, hold on,
hold on, uh who's.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
The it's her.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
She plays telling you eyeliner, Nicky nicky swango, nicky swang
Go's the girlfriend that's rock and roll. Yeah, and she
plays her the chief.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
She's the chief.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
And Wikipedia is failing me.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
I am so mad at you, Steven. You're gonna get
Stephen out of here. Everything you have to say from
now on is in a Chicago excient. No, IMDb Fargo
have to put this on pause. Season three. If I
get this before you see on, you're fucking fired. Well
he's trying to hold a microphone and then do it
with one thing.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
That's his problem. Okay, all right, Okay, here we go. No,
I think you're wrong, No way, Carrie Koon is it chief? What?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (54:10):
It's too different after Mary Elizabeth something?

Speaker 4 (54:13):
God, she thought so Elizabeth Winstead.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Mary Elizabeth Winstead's only the girlfriend. M hmm.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
I've had so many conversations about how amazing.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Including with me because I was like, uh huh, I
agreed with you a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
They looked so much alike. I asked Vince it was
the same person too, because I agree.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
We always have to believe Vince. Now, why Yeah, that's
he's never wrong. He's never wrong. Never. He also doesn't
say shit like I do where I'm like no, I'm positive,
and I'm like, oh you're right, I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
I do that shit all I listen, look, look and
listen you said that she plays two characters, and I
didn't want to be like, I think you're wrong, so
I was like.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Oh, yeah, oh you always got to say if you
think I'm wrong. It happens a lot.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Have you tried telling yourself telling you that you think
you're wrong? Uh, if you're confirmed arguing? No, no, no,
I just think I don't like. I would rather assume
that I'm wrong because I usually am. Okay, what was
that thing I said the other day? The cockles of
your heart?

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Hackles? I said cockles?

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, No, you said something about get. I don't want
to get. You said something something about the I said,
I don't want to like. You said something about the
cock I don't.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Want to get cockles up right? And but it was hackles.
This is why I don't argue when people tell me
a thing. I know, but I feel like, okay.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Well. I also when I'm positive about something, it almost
changes the fact I get so positive.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
I think you we're exactly the same way I believe
the way you do the same thing.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
It's like, I don't know, look it up. Yeah, like,
let's wait until you see this that I'm right. I
don't under But here's the thing. This happens all the
time in casting. Why are you casting two women who
look eggs? All I thought was that the that the
that the police chief woman just had less eyeliner and
a different haircut. And I'm like, this is brilliant that

(56:06):
they're making her look a little bit older simply by not.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Because the brother was the same person. So why couldn't
this be that too? I thought it was. I thought
I thought it was like a thief. I did two.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
I think I stopped thinking that would have been said no,
so I would have doubled down.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
And then he hit me. Oh yeah, So I was like, Okay,
he's right me, and I think she is killing it?
So who do you think is killing it?

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Then?

Speaker 1 (56:33):
The chief? I love the chief.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
I think now the girlfriend, Mary Elizabeth is fucking it's
suddenly about her, yes, and I fucking am like at
first I was like, who, Like, what's this peripheral character?

Speaker 1 (56:47):
And now it's about her and I fucking love her.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yeah, she's I think I like them both a lot,
but I did too, but I wasn't. I knew that
the other Carrie was good in the Leftovers, so I
wasn't worried about that, But this chick.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
It's awesome, I imagined. I just think she's now, I
think she's bad. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
I just thought that there was this amazing job of
when you are the kind of girl that dresses rock
and roll like the like the hot girlfriend, you have
a kind.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Of aura about you that looks like that, and when
you are a woman.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
That's just trying to fucking get some shit done and
have people listen to you, you look like Carrie Kum,
which is kind of an all business haircut and not
a lot of makeup and not a lot of that,
and a lot of just like I'm not.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Trying to do anything.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
And it seems like this perfect presentation of like when
what you do with your womanly attractiveness based on the
job you have or based on what you're trying to
get done with your job.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
And it's this thing too of like you can either
use the fact that you're hot or pretty or you cannot.
But the one way isn't better than the other, exactly right,
They're both. It's up to you in both ways, and
they're both very effective. I just loved that presentation. I'm like,
I was giving it so much fucking credit.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Do you need all hope. People you're at parties.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
You're so mad right now of like me holding forth
on what it means to you know, philosophically and representationally
of the woman's role or whatever.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Wonder how many people like an actress have argued your
point once they believed you at parties or whatever.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Let's not act like I go to a bunch of parties.
I haven't talked to anybody but the two of you
in like a month, those Hollywood parties and our therapist.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Oh that's right. I just tried to tell our therapist.
She has been in Oh she was in Scott Pilgrim. Okay,
she's cute.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Okay, a rock and roll girl was the girlfriend in
Scott Pilgrim. Yeah, yes, she's great. And she was in
ten Cloverfield Lane. She's great, man, Okay, she's been in
some cool shit. What about carry kun she's been She's
from the leftovers. She's from the left overs.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Is not enough for it? Iss funny, let's see here
she is. Should we be doing more wikipediaing or should
you finish?

Speaker 5 (59:10):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (59:10):
I'm not done. Fuck I thought it was done. Fuck God,
damn it. I don't want to keep going. Listen, he's
a fucking asshole. He diedabates.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Oh god, no, really, he dies Avatea. Sorry, that was
the end of the fucking story. Okay, I'm almost done.
He has a he has a guy who does it
with him.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
That's the darkest. I feel like that is the darkest.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
That's probably why we just took a serious left turn,
Like we just touched into the darkest area possible, which
is serial a team of serial killer situation. Yeah fuck
that also against children, totally, yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
So, based on his confession, Larry Eyler receives a sixty
year prison sentence on top of what he's been going
on through. In return, he agrees to testify against doctor Little,
who's arrested on the murder charges and in the absence
of physical evidence to support Eyler's statement. Little is acquitted
of all charges in nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
So okay.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Later, Larry Eyler's attorney finds out that doctor Little had
been paying for Larry Eyler's defense. So Larry's testifying against
doctor Little for the prosecution, but has a financial relationship
with the prosecution's lead witness and illegal duty to his client,
and it's all crazy fucked up. So that shouldn't have happened, however, Okay,

(01:00:34):
back in it noise.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
But it happened anyway, basically did but they.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Didn't figure that out until Okay, point time letter back Illinois,
Larry's Larry offers to clear twenty murders in exchange for
commutation of his sentence to life imprisonment.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
The state authorities say no.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
And then I wrote Dix because there were more murders
going on after Larry Elers was put into prison that
were very similar to what was going on when he
was killing people. Was a doctor, library little, It was
someone else who worked in a similar manner. And Larry
Eylers is like, yo, I'll tell you everything and I'll
put all of this to bed if you just don't

(01:01:09):
kill me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
And this guy who was like.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
This was the new something after attorney thank you, and
he was like, no, we put him Jack O'Malley. He
was the county state attorney. He could keep him, keep
Eyler and JA have the rest of his life. Solve
more than twenty old murders, help bring to justice a
killer or killer still in the loose, and save taxpayers.
Taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars In appeal costs, but

(01:01:35):
good old Jack O'Malley said a bird in the hand
is better than twenty in the bush.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Literally said that, So he said no. So he was
basically saying, killing this one guy is worth it. Okay,
all right, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
So Larry Eiler dies of aids on March sixth, nineteen
eighty four, to forty one years old. Kathleen Zelner handles
Eyler's appeals. She describes the killings. He tells her about
all the killings over the last three years before he dies,
and she convinces him. She convinces him to let her
release his confession after his death, so she released a
list of twenty one killings, to which she said Eiler

(01:02:11):
confessed and that he said he had an accomplice for
four of the killings. He took a polygraph text that
supported all of these things. So it's all true, maybe
probably pretty so. I don't know if you recognize the
name Kathleen Zelner.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Is it the it makeup products that like make your.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Zelner for don't get a case of the mondays, uh
will exonerate your pores?

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I don't know, is that what you do? Trying to
think of stuff? We're going on my riff. I thought
you were giving me clues.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Oh she really could be No, no, no, oh my god,
I was just like, what, Oh should I know that puzzles?

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Oh no, no, I was going off your riff badly.
You couldn't tell because they were very bad. This your pores.
I disagree. I think you did great. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
I'm honored you're saying next it's my birthday.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
No I'm not. No, I never do that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Okay one, Miss Kathleen Zelner, who, by the way, if
this had been turned into a movie like it was
supposed to call Priftone, information would have been played by
Jessica Biel is also now Steve Avery's new appella attorney
from Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
That making a murderer m So, she is a defense attorney.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
She's in a pat she's on appeals, she's the appeals attorney.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Once you get convicted, she comes in and is like,
let's see if we can turn this around.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
So she that's what she did for him, in that
she found out that his whole defense had been paid
for by the person he ended up fingering, oh, doctor little,
So she was like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
What the fuck.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
So she basically she goes through everything from the trial
and is like, here's what this fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Here's what that fucked up.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
We're gonna go back and appeal all of this based
on this, not based on even whether or not you
did it, or based on you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Know, it's purely legal.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
It's like the problem guys talked about, turnover enough this
evidence they were supposed to did this get did this
go by the book right? Which might or not mean
that the guy is guilty, but it doesn't matter because
it's processed. So she pros yeah, which is great, good
for her, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
What I'm George, is like I'm being forced to say this. Yeah, no,
I mean that though.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
It's like, you know, it's the thing that the fucking
guy Brenham says to us too, which is like, it
doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
You have to give them a good fight, right, which
is like no, but I'm in jail forever, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
So a bunch of eleven bodies after his arrest, eleven
bodies turn up in rural counties in Ohio and Indiana,
all the same age ligature.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Marks all this ship.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
And then so, m.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
That's it. Where's doctor fucking Little? Is he the one
doing it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
I don't you can't find information about this shit. Oh,
I want to give a shout out to the article
really that sums up everything really well was called the
Return to Larry Eyler from the Chicago Reader in nineteen
ninety two, and it's written by John Conroy and it
really is the best article you can read of it.
And then there's a couple other ones here and there
that gives some information, but it's so hard to find anything, right,

(01:05:19):
but this Return.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Of Larry Eyler, I want to read that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
It's it's just such a fucked up I hope I
told that well enough, and I know I was like,
I didn't say words correctly. Sometimes it's just how I
do things. But hey, it's your birthday, it's my birthday.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
No, the mouth is dry, amazing, Well, now I just
want to now I'm so mad and want to know it. Also,
that sounds like such a dumb political stance of yeah,
we are going to kill him because we've got the
chance to kill him and he deserves to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Be killed, so we're going to kill him.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Well, this guy was also like it was his first
death penalty that he had gotten and they were all
proud of that, so he didn't want to give it
up and see like a pussy. And so all these
parents whose kids had disappeared and they didn't know where
they were, and people who thought it was going to
keep happening were like, give this guy life in prison,

(01:06:10):
he's not going to get out. And this chick, Kathy
or Catherine's elener was also like because the guy was like, well,
what if he then gets out in thirty years because
we took the death penalty away, and she like proved
that he wouldn't because of these because of this other,
this other thing he got found guilty of. So it
was never going to happen anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Isn't this guy just like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Emitting to twenty murderers and you give him a life
sentence he won't get out, and twenty life sentences.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
With no parole he wouldn't have. Oh, that's fucking heavy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Yeah, So it's just it's just fucking sad and crazy
that we've never heard. It's just another one of those like,
you know, a disenfranchised group of people are getting killed,
so nobody cares and it's not a big deal to anyone,
right except their families, So why prosecute hard or what?

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Yeah, and no it's not against the cops. And actually
there's one John Doe that one of the counties had.
They could never find out who it was, so they
all the cops. They're paid for a funeral for him.
Oh and like and like went to the funeral and
visit the grave and got him a headstone. And it's like,
it's not it's just it's just shitty.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
It's so shitty. Yeah, it's such hard work and that's
so shitty. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Well, and you know this made me think of and
just a pull out bigger picture thing because we even
since I was in high school, being in high school
in the eighties, the difference of the way people talk
about being gay, people treat gay people, it is exactly
the opposite of how when I was a teenager, and
so I think the younger people don't appreciate it as much.

(01:07:47):
But this is such a great example of people going like,
h you know, men marrying men or women marrying women,
what's next or whatever, all that kind of shit. It's
such a like when you look at how when you
repress and oppress people and tell them that they can't
be who they are, the kind of things, the kind
of psychological damage that that causes and what that can

(01:08:10):
turn into in certain people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Obviously not always because but.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
The idea of that that people back then, not that
long ago were absolutely forced to not only deny who
they were, but some were made to despise who they
were to the point of having to kill It's such
a fucking heavy concept.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
Well, what's crazy too is if, like for the victim side,
it's also that thing of like when you make fun
of people for that thing, and you make them less
human unless you identify with them less as a human being,
And so when these horrible things happen to them, you
can't have empathy for them because you don't think they
are normal human beings. Right, And the other thing I

(01:08:52):
was going to say was something really poignant about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Well that I mean on top of that, which is
an incredibly poignant thing to say. What you just said
is kind of it almost like that argument that was
so popular online five years ago or whatever, of like
everything's funny, rape is funny, anything is funny. It like
maybe in your small group of friends that could be

(01:09:18):
true to you and the people who are just like you,
But then the larger scheme of things, that's exactly right.
It's dehumanizing to people, and it's and it's dehumanizing to
situations where it's like, but that's actually not the case
for everyone. And this it feels like these days the
attempt almost subconscious societal. You know, as a human race,

(01:09:43):
we're just trying to be more connected and more empathetic
to each other, no matter who that other person is.
And so if that person isn't like you, you might
not laugh at those same jokes as you. Of course,
you can still tell whatever fucking joke you want, but
the idea is, are you going to make a human
connection or not or going to cancel that connection forever
because you so value your momentary need to say whatever

(01:10:08):
the fuck you want.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
And I think more and more people are being like,
what the fuck is wrong with you that you need
to make fun of these people? And I think what's
really cool nowadays too, is like we're so much more
willing to call people out on a shit. Yeah, like
why are you making a rape joke? And when you
do make a rape joke with five of your friends,
you don't know if one of them has been raped,
and so they're never going to come forward because you're
making it a joke. And I think that people are
more willing to call other people out on it now,

(01:10:29):
and because there's a psychological thing with people who can
make jokes about that, that there's something fucking wrong with them.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
I think that's really what it's turning into, is as
opposed to talking about this as a need or a
rite or anything like that, it's just like, well, actually
it's just a reflection on you, which is really what it.
I mean, it's all of these it's very complex thing.
It's it's all of these things at once, but ultimately,
like for me as a person, it just makes me
think of you as a person less, definitely less.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
I just don't talk.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
About that I think of you less, but I absolutely
think are you less in the same way that, Like,
there are a lot of people who didn't grow up
while AIDS was a thing. I can remember the news
report when they first reported AIDS as an issue in
the Bay Area. I remember it. I remember how my
parents reacted. I remember the moment. I think I was

(01:11:21):
like eleven and growing up under this unbelievably scary, dark
thing of AIDS, and then having my friend Ken Mason,
who is one of my closest friends from sixth grade
through high school.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Died when he was twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Years old because he was closeted and because he got
AIDS two or twenty three.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
It was sorry, It was very very sad.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
But like when people make AIDS jokes, I don't go,
never make that joke again or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
I just go, Oh, you don't get it. It's like
you don't get but also that you don't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
It's almost like proclaiming your ignorance of lack of empathy,
but also just that you haven't really been through life. Now,
you haven't lived. You're probably kind of spoiled. Both your
parents are probably still alive.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
And you decide that you get to make whatever race joke,
you get to say the N word. You All this
shit that you think you can do just reflects on you.
It's just about the quality of your character. Why am
I still talking? Because it's important. Steve and Stephen all
that out.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Please put Stave in it out.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Let's all make this a minist.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
That's gonna be our break music. Stephen always go up
at the end. Okay, it's time to have an honest conversation. Finally, Yes,
about what about mattresses. Finally, and the mattress that we

(01:12:55):
want to talk to you about is Casper. It's a
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Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
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Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
The Casper mattress, come on, It's music to our ears.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
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Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
But no, go ahead, no you say.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
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Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
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Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
With over twenty thousand reviews and an average of four
point eight stars, it's quickly becoming the internet's favorite mattress.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
They have no really, I mean, I use mind, but
I don't have trouble sleeping at all anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
The free shipping and returns to us in Canada.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
You try Casper mattresses for one hundred nights risk free,
one hundred nights.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Where in your home.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
No, yes, it has to be in your own home.
You can't bring this mattress all fucking around town like.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
You like to do.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
If you don't love it, they will come and pick
it up and refund you everything, including including hurt feelings.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Listen, it's designed, developed, assembled in the US of A
for the U all ull L. Y'all L y'all go
to the y'all l. Casper dot com slash murder.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
Yeah, Casper dot com slash murders.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Get fifty dollars towards any mattress purchase by visiting Casper
dot com slash murder and in using the promo code
and murder.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
And just please remember that terms and conditions apply. Just
never forget that, and just always keep that in the
forefront of your mind.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
I mean light in life. It's very true in life.
Don't forget it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
There's going to be terms and after that conditions always
every time, goodbye, get a All right, let me tell
that story one more time, my murder story one more
time to just to get it right right? And did
I make a lot of mistakes in the beginning of that?
Can I redo it? Stephen?

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
Not right now? But he has all your fixes in there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
But like the word that miss said.

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
I'm just gonna put Natalie in between them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
Oh No, Natalie I'm sorry. You want me to do mine? Yeah,
always and forever. Okay, here's mine. This I got.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
I was watching Forensic Files as we all. I think,
I swear to god, I think someone just very recently
tweeted at me, do you watch forensic Files? I'm not kidding, Karen,
And the answer about this, The answer is yes, if
there's a policeman in it, I've at least watched it
one time.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
That's the rule.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Also, people are recommending BBC things we don't have it yet.
Don't ask me if if it's brand new's okay, take
this out this, I've gone too far. Okay, I'm watching
Forensic Files and I have a recovered memory of the
best forensic files I've ever seen, and I'm like, how
come I haven't done this one before? That's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
I love.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
I love when that happens, right, and you're like, oh
my god, why haven't I? And it's like a big
so this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
When I watched this on Forensic Files the first time,
I remember standing up and going like no.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Way or something. It was one of those so I
was like so excited. I got to look this up,
gotta find my info. And it is insane and it's
an la one.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
I want everyone to know that the word insane, by
Karen's hand gestures was written in lights.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
You did the written in lights? A crop of it
was like a Liz Manelli Broadway move. Uh huh insane.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
It was like if, yeah, like a cartoon, then could
put up sparkly lights clean.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
That'said insane. That said insane was gorgeous. Okay, so this
is the pillow Pyro.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
I read right, so you may remember this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
You're a little too young.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Throughout the eighties and southern California, there was a spate
of arson fires that killed families.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
It cost tens of millions of dollars, went on for years.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
And baffled authorities, and sometimes arson fires were being set
up to three times a day.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Holy shit in the.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
Southland, as they like to call it on the news
here in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
One TV show that got canceled in Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Southland, The Best starring Sean Hattisey. Okay, so all of
this is I'm retelling you of forensic files. That's one
of my favorites. That's where I get the chronology, some
of the wording whatever. But also within that forensic files
they talked to. One of the talking heads is a
famous crime writer and he was also ex LAPD detective.

(01:17:41):
He was a detective for the LAPD for twenty years.
His name is Joseph Wambaugh, and he wrote a book
called Fire Lover. So if you really want like the
deep down story, which I would highly recommend, I think
I want to read this book after I got those
two monsters.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
I'm listening to. Its kind of my thing that I
was happy about this week.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
I know it's not no, it's but yes, it's not
everything else, but you have been listening to it, started
listening so like all around the house.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
I can't stop. I forgot to mention this in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Okay, we'll have to talk about it after, Okay, Okay,
about Fire Lover's next because this story is so fucking crazy, Okay,
But as I wrote, I'm taking the chronology and the
shape of the story from the original Gangster Forensic Fire.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Okay, Okay, So this episode starts, and so I shall start.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
On October tenth, nineteen eighty four, because it's very good storytelling.
Just started on the day that the San Diego Padres
are playing the Detroit Tigers in the World Series. Oh,
everyone remembers that. Actually that Vince remembers exactly right. I'm
sure he does, right, Troit boy, and I believe they
were playing in San Diego.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
So or maybe not? No, no, no, oh, that's sense,
It doesn't matter. Steven Steven Stephen. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
So it starts on October tenth, nineteen four. The San
Diego Padres are playing the Detroit Tigers in the World Series.
And there's a hardware store in South Pasadena called Olie's.
I don't know if you remember that chain of hardware stores.
It's like it, you know, it sands No, it's basically
like old school home depot. So they interview a guy
named Jim Obdam who worked there in high school, and

(01:19:21):
he's talking about how he notices nobody's there because the
World Series and the Padres are playing in the World Series.
So every there's no business except for like a few
people scattered around the store, a.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
Few women probably. What's that? A few women probably.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
So he hears an emergency message over the PA and
then the fire alarm starts going off, and so he
looks he goes out into like the isle and looks
down and there's a huge plume of smoke coming from
like the back of the store whatever, And so he
turns and he starts helping the few customers that are
there to try to get them out the fire exit doors,

(01:20:00):
and as they're trying to walk toward it, it's just
becomes a wall of flames and the entire store is
like up and fully engulfed, like immediately. He said, it
happened so fast. He got out of the store, but
he had really bad burns on one arm. He said,
he touched his arm and skin just came off.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
No, no, yes, So he gets out. But four people
got trapped in and killed in that fire.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Two customers, grandmother ate a Deal and her two year
old grandson, Matthew Troudel, and then two employees, seventeen year
old Jamie Settina and twenty six year old Carolyn Krause.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
They all died in that fire.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
God So the official explanation was that it was an
electrical fire, but the arson investigator from the Glendale Fire
Department was on the scene. He believed it was arson
right off the bat. He took pictures, he documented the
whole When they were saying we think it's an electrical fire.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
He was arguing with them.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
So then January nineteen eighty seven, there's another fire at
another a different Olie's hardware store. And this fire so
this is like three years later. Okay, tune and a
half three years later. This one is set in the
foam padding section.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Oh god. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
And then the same day, ninety miles away in Bakersfield,
there's a fire at a craftmart store. And in the
Bakersfield Fire, Captain Marvin Casey arrives at the scene at
that fire and he finds in a bin of dry
flowers a slow burning and sundiary device which was three

(01:21:53):
matches wrapped around a lit cigarette with binder paper rubber
band around the outside of all of it and then
put into the dry flowers.

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
So when the cigarette gets down to the butt, it
lights the matches on fire, yep, and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
Then the matches light the paper and it's the whole
thing is just this very rudimentary slow burning in Sandia.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
You would never that, you would never look like notice
look for right exactly. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
Elvis is eating the French fries her on the coller. Sorry,
he's gonna vomit those on the bed in the middle
of the night. If those are not, thank you, Steven.
I think we should leave that in.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
So I don't know though, because you're like, I'm so sorry,
Elvis is eating it, Stephen, go get that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
I don't want to be rude. Shorge's feet or above
her head, she's so reclined. Oh, I have a pill
of a tremolat. Okay, sorry, no, no, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
So they find that in sundy your device in the
dried flowers, Marvin Casey does, and then on the binder
paper he finds a fingerprint. So he sends that off
to the lab and they're like, we have to get
that fingerprint. But is the eighties, remember, so everything's like Xerox.
It's the Xerox version of everything. Everything's the fax machine,

(01:23:25):
the carbon machines around them of a carbon copy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Yeah, it's like Ditto's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
So, while Marvin Casey is at the scene of that
fire the craft Smart store, he hears on the radio
a second fire breaks out at a different fabric store
in Bakersfield. Fuck. So they investigators that went to that
fire founded that that was also intentionally set with a
slow burning and sundiary device in the pillow and foam

(01:23:53):
rubber section of the store.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
There were other suspicious.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Fires in the neighboring towns north of Bakersfield to Lai
and Fresno. So it's basically all these cities up and
down Highway ninety nine, which is basically in California.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
There's the five that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
Goes up and down the entire state, which is what
you drive when you're going from La to San Francisco
and you want to go ninety five miles an hour
the whole time. The ninety nine is in is further east,
and it's more of a two lane highway, and you
take that one when you're just smoking a bunch of grass. Okay.
So Marvin Casey hears the reports on the radio, and

(01:24:31):
then he remembers there's an arsenal investigator's convention in Fresno
that weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Oh my god, and so he.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
Realizes that all of these fires are going up and
down the ninety nine, ending in Fresno, because Fresno is
the northernmost of all the cities that that was happening in.
And so he goes he's thinking, what if this arsonist
is a fireman? And he goes to his bosses and

(01:25:00):
and explains this theory to them and they're like, you're
fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
That's insane. It's that's not true. Like you know, they're
they're so not into that theory.

Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
They were like, think inside the matchbox, come on, but
he was thinking outside the matchbox.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Oh oh, I get it. God. They basically say he's crazy. Okay,
that's what they say. So, uh.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
So they find matching, slow burning and sundiary devices that
match the craft mart and the only fires.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
Then they take the print. He takes a print that's found.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
It's entered into APHIS, but there's no matches in the
national database.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
So he asks if he can.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Cross check all the fingerprints of the people who are
at that Arsenal Investigation convention with this one fingerprint, and
they say no, they said, your theory is impossible and ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
So two years later, in March of nineteen eighty nine,
there's another space of fires. This one's up and down
the one to one and it's further north. Marvin Casey
once again sees that there's an Arson Investigations symposium in
Pacific Grove. So this is up by Monterey from what

(01:26:16):
I looked at on the map. Unless there's another Pacific grove.
So basically what Marvin Casey does is he narrows down
a list of ten people who were at the first
Parson Symposium and the most recent Arsen Symposium.

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
I don't know if that's correct terminology.

Speaker 3 (01:26:31):
I would have guessed that he was that whoever was
doing the fires was like mocking them or fucking with
the people the firefighters at the symposium.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Could be, But he didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
You mean like burning nearby, like you can't get Yeah, yeah,
like you guys are all hearing yet I'm still there. Well,
anything's possible at this point except for my possibility.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
That's no, You're right, I mean I think that's just
so fascinating. Yeah, to be thought of that, right, Uh Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
He makes the list of the ten people who are
at both and finally they start working. There's been so
many fires at this point they bring in a Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and so he gets atf
to cross check the fingerprints with the one found on

(01:27:22):
the incendiary device. There's no match, so it confirmed that
Marvin Casey's theory is no good. His bosses are like, Okay,
are you gonna drop this now? Because that was your
chance to prove it and your theory's wrong. So then
two years later, in June of nineteen ninety, there's the
College Hills fire. This is a fire that was in

(01:27:44):
those hills above Glendale. It burns sixty seven houses. Oh,
it's one of the biggest wildfires in California history, and
it was proven to be arson. So by the year's end,
by the end of nineteen ninety, it was clear that
this arsonist was at it again, and finally the ATF
assigned special Agent I'm doing it too. Special Agent Mike

(01:28:08):
Matassa to the case. He in starting to work on
it and look through all of the evidence of the facts,
finds out about Marvin Casey's theory and he thinks it's
a good theory, so he he goes back.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
He sees that the.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
Fingerprint didn't match anybody's, so he has the idea that
this time he's going to cross check that one fingerprint
with anyone.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Who's ever applied for a job with the city. So
instead of being those specific.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
Dudes, it's just if it is a fireman or whoever
it could possibly be, will know if we cross check
it with the city fingerprints.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
O could be a fucking fire receptionist, house receptionists.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
It could be the fucking Dalmatian could trainer. Why didn't
you notice that there were five little pads. That's those
points points, it compares or whatever they call it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Okay, So so yeah, because you have to get your
finger printed when you apply for a job with the city.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
Comes back with the match.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
The match is a man named John Orr, who is
the Arson investigator for the Glendale Fire Department. Was he
at the first scene, second scene? Yes, at the first story.
I told it's the guy that was there, immediately saying.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
This is Arson. He was calling it out as Arson. Yes, yes,
tell me everything, Okay, this is okay.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
At this point when they do this reveal in forensic files,
I was like, wait, so what because they do it
so perfectly that you're like, but who could this be?
This is super weird or it's someone that wants to
be a fireman.

Speaker 3 (01:29:43):
Yeah, because it wouldn't be the person that just makes
no sense of the person. They'd be like it was Arson.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
I know because I did it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:49):
Like that doesn't right, You're like you're kind of stupid
or you're so smart.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Well, it's it's it's.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
That thing of like how serial killers get so narcissistic
and so you know their psychopaths, so they think they're
smarter than everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
They don't think they're ever going to get caught, and
they really are. It's part of the.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
Joy of doing it is being setting it and then
being the first one there to explain to everybody how
it happens.

Speaker 3 (01:30:19):
Or showing up and thinking someone else is going to
be like it's ourson, but everyone else like it's naturally.
It's like, no, give me credit for how smart I am. Yes,
they're just saying it's a fucking no.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Look around, real smart over here, look over in the pillows. Okay,
So here's the deal with John Orr. He applied to
be a Los Angeles policeman first, he all his life
wanted to be a policeman.

Speaker 1 (01:30:45):
He passed every test except for the psychological exam.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
Can't be that hard to cheat. I mean his psych profile.
Here's the quote from it from the results of that test.
It says he's a schizoid person who is withdrawn from
people and may have sexual confusion on his orientation.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
That comes out in a cop test. I don't I
want to take it. Can he get the LAPD to
send us to cop tests. Not the one where you
have to climb over.

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
A wall dry No, no, no no, not when I
fucking hate you know, when they scramble straight up like
a wooden wall.

Speaker 3 (01:31:23):
Yeah, I want to light that wall on that wooden
on fire, yes, with a slow burning in sundy here
and take a psychological test. Or I go sit indoors
in the air conditioning and pass.

Speaker 4 (01:31:32):
It and pass it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
Was flying in colors. Okay. So then he applies to
be an LA fire department, Okay, a fireman. He applies
to be the department. He wants to become the entire department.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
He applies to be a fireman in La, but he
can't pass the physical Yeah, which I mean could anyone
for real? Because also it's not just being a fireman,
but you're an a fireman in La, oh my god.
Where it's kind of like the cream of the crop.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
Anyway. In terms of people, a lot of people come
here with big muscles.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
Sure a yeah, just an email Karen if you have
big If you're one of those, how big are your muscles?

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
Let me know, yeah, because I'm super into that. I
know that's what you're gonna do.

Speaker 2 (01:32:17):
Big muscles totally okay, So he doesn't pass the physical.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
He's crushed.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
So then he kind of like lays low for a while,
and he applies to the Glendale Fire Department, which is
less tony and exciting and statusy obviously than the La
Fire Department and probably easier to get into. So he
gets in and he actually does very well, and he
quickly is promoted to captain and then eventually to arson investigator.

(01:32:54):
So John Orr was also on Marvin Casey's list of
the ten people who were at both of those Arsenau conferences.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
Yep, and.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
The end. Later on they found that the only reason
his fingerprint didn't match it was just like a lab mistake.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
It was the same fingerprint.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
Oh, so that was almost And also then I thought, ooh,
or did somebody go this can't get out or this
can't be found out? Sure, although that'd be insane because
then it's like, but then we'll let all of Glendale
burn just just to hide this one fact.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Maybe what happened again?

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
Oh dang it?

Speaker 1 (01:33:34):
Sixty seven houses.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
So after seven years of arson fires, they finally have
a suspect, but the fingerprint only puts him at one
of the fires. So they have to put him under surveillance.

Speaker 1 (01:33:47):
So it's so hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
In this forensic files they talk all about GPS versus
the tracker that they use on his car, and they're
explaining GPS because no one knew what was this man
talking about, like satellite technology as such.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
Where I was like, oh my god, we live like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
In this triple future totally compared to nineteen ninety three
or whenever.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
Okay, totally, it's just so weird.

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
I love it. So this is basically what happened, and
I wish I couldn't find anything else about the specifics
of this day, and I so wish I could also
I tried talk about it. After they find his car,
they locate so they put a tracker on his car
and they find once they get all this information, they're like,
find him. Now he has to be off the street,

(01:34:35):
you know. They find that he's not. The Warner Brothers
a lot in Burbank, and soon after they locate his
car there a fire breaks out on one of the TV.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
Shows sets Are you okay? Man? I swear to God,
and I was like, which one was it?

Speaker 3 (01:34:50):
ALF, Like, you don't know, I thought you were going
to make me guess no.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
I wish I could. Oh, someone's got to know this,
Someone's got to know And that's what I was gonna say.
It could.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
There was a made for HBO movie called Point of
Origin starring Raleiota playing this guy radical and I'm I'm
sure it's in there, but the only I could find
no versions of it, not on HBO, go nowhere, not
on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
There's a version of it. Have you ever seen this
where people illegally upload movies and so they put.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
It into almost like a mortis, so it's it's a
TV screen like yours, but turned.

Speaker 1 (01:35:27):
To the side.

Speaker 2 (01:35:28):
The speed of the movie is speed it up like
times two. So it's Raleiota being like, get over here
and take a look at this absence, like everything's.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
Going really fast. I have no idea about that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
And also there's an Asian girl standing there with a
remote control pointed at the TV like that's all static,
and then the movie's happening in the screen.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
You have to see it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:47):
It's hilarious. You look, if you look up Point of Origin. Okay,
that's how nice. That's the nineteen nineties rip off of
a movie is Yes, that's how you Pirate a movie
in nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 2 (01:35:59):
I tried to watch it for like four minutes and
I was like, this is not fucking worth it. I
feel like I'm about to go insane. Okay, So anyway,
but someone can and I bet you in that they
say exactly what show they're on. So anyhow, he leaves, okay,
So basically they find that he's at the Warner Brothers lot.
Then they get the alarm. A fire is broken out
on the Warner on Fire elves burning.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
His whole back is on fire.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
Someone get over there right away, which is funny because
there is a fire department on the Warner Brothers lot.
There's actually like a fire truck and a firehouse and
everything right there. Anyhow, ask me anything. So they track
him driving away from the Warner Brothers lot, and then
when he gets the official call on his radio at home,

(01:36:43):
he drives back, but the radio operator gave the wrong address,
so she's.

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
Like, there's a fire at Diddy Didy do he drives
straight back to the Warner Brothers lot. They did that
on purpose, Yes, well, they say it was. They say
they make it sound like it was.

Speaker 2 (01:36:59):
It was the dispatcher's restake but I bet you that
was the test, Yeah, because you don't need to know
the address of the Warner Brothers a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
It's like the main thing in Burbank totally.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
Anyhow, that's when they knew it was absolutely him, because he,
with being given a different address, still went to where
the fire was.

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
So they're like, arrest him now. So that's they're like,
all right, I.

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
Just said that.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Okay, So they get a search warrant, first home and car,
and then inside a preefcase they find matches, binder, paper, cigarettes,
and rubber bars. He claims it's a coincidence and that
he's totally innocent. In his home they find home video
that starts with the shot of a beautiful hillside home

(01:37:41):
and that it's like it runs like that for like
a couple of minutes, and then it stops and it
starts up again. It ate the same home eighteen months later,
burning to the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
So it was all like planned eighteen months. Eighteen months.
He's planned it. It's so crazy, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
So then they also find in his house a manuscript
for a book called Points of Origin that he's writing.
He go ahead, he wrote it. He's writing a book
about what do you think the book's.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
About where he's from in Europe, his point of origin.

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
M it's a book about an Arsen investigator who's actually
really a serial arsonist.

Speaker 1 (01:38:22):
Is does ray Laota in the book version play him already?
What do you mean in the book version?

Speaker 3 (01:38:29):
Because Leah never meant that's the movie name from the HBO.

Speaker 1 (01:38:33):
That's exactly right. So he's writing it. Well, yeah, but
it's not. He didn't write the movie version because well,
let's just use his He even said cass and so
we're going to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
No, they basically go to his house and find a
script that is his story, but with a different name.
The arson investigator's name is Aaron Styles. But here's the
there's a list of similarity between the book and the
facts of the case. Both are firefighters, Both are non smokers.

(01:39:06):
This is from a legal document. Both use a delay
and cndiary device to sign to fully ignite the fire,
approximately time to fifteen minutes after the device is in place.
In one draft of the manuscript, it describes a match
attached to a cigarette and placed inside a paper bag,
similar to the.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
Actual facts of the binder paper match of the binder paper.

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
Both start fires and retail stores located in Los Angeles
during business hours. Both place the incendiary device in combustible
materials located in the store. Both start fires in the
drapery section at a Los Angeles fabric store. Both start
fires in display of styrofoam products. Oh my god, both
start fires. And hardware stores both start fires in several

(01:39:49):
retail stores in close proximity to one another within a
short span of time.

Speaker 1 (01:39:53):
On the same day.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
Both start fires in the same locations while both the
character and the actual arsonist were traveling to or from
arson investigators conferences in Fresno.

Speaker 3 (01:40:03):
Oh, so he's like, he's admitting to the whole thing. Yeah,
in a stupid script.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
It's basically a script called My Diary of being a
Serial largeness. And he does he say it's a coincidence. Yeah,
it's such a strange coincidence.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
But uh.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Uh, what's not in that document.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
But what is in the script is that his lead
character sets these fires and then writes about watching them
with an erection or while masturbating, And one scene in
the manuscript he can't get an erection until he starts
a fire.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
What if that were What if that were true? What
if that you were your thing? What if that was
your thing? What if you couldn't how do you figure
that out? And then how do you make it work?
And then like don't well, you know what it is,
Just don't get an erection anymore. It's fine. I don't know.
I don't know if that's I don't know if that's fine.
That's not an option for some people. Who would it

(01:40:57):
be for? I mean, look, listen, listen.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
At one point in the book, he describes his lead
character raping and killing a woman and then burning her
in her car. Authorities found a similar case where the
body of a woman was found raped and murdered in
a burnt out car, but they couldn't find any hard
evidence to connect John Or with that crime.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
Also in the book, the main.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
Character talked about setting several fires at once so that
the fireman would be overwhelmed, allowing him to watch one
of the fires burn freely until it was totally out
of control.

Speaker 1 (01:41:32):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
And that same character also talked about one of the
victims of one of the fires he sets being a
two year old boy named Matthew.

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
Are you serious?

Speaker 2 (01:41:44):
Mm hmm. So the exact victim of one of his
fires he's writing about in this script, and that was
the detail that cinched it for the investigators.

Speaker 1 (01:41:54):
They were just like, So he's.

Speaker 2 (01:41:55):
Arrested, and he's charged with numerous counts of arson and
four counts of first degree mr. In nineteen ninety eight,
he's sentenced to life in prison plus twenty years without
the possibility of parole. He has never admitted that he's guilty,
which is one of the many signs that he's a psychopath. Yeah,
he's motivated by his ego, by delusions of grandeur. He

(01:42:18):
believes that he's smarter and better than everyone, no remorse,
no guilt, and he's a great actor and highly manipulative.
There's actually I've found a couple clips of him talking
he got interviewed. It's before he got caught being interviewed
and talking on the news about Wabba fires, and.

Speaker 1 (01:42:40):
He's you would he's master people.

Speaker 2 (01:42:42):
The way he speaks, even though he's not like that
exciting of a person, you can tell how he is
like so kind of strangely alluring.

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
He's very sharp, very clear eyed, and very like knows
all the details. He's a real expert, really really interested
in what Yeah, crazy so atf agent Mike Mantassa believes it.
Between nineteen eighty four and nineteen ninety one, John.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
Or set at least two thousand fires and perhaps up
to ten thousand fires. Fuck. Some arsenal investigators and an
FBI criminal profiler have deemed Or to be one of
the worst American serial arsonists of the twentieth century. Before
his arrest, the average number of brush fires in the
hills above Glendale and Burbank were sixty seven. A year

(01:43:32):
after his arrest, that number dropped two three.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
Oh my fucking gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:43:37):
So he was doing all of them for almost a decade.
It was all him, essentially. Uh oh. And then I
just started watching a video about what it actually means
to be a psychopath because we've had so many discussions
about psychopaths, sociopath, yeah, all the different languages that we use,

(01:43:58):
and it's base the psychopath. What I think is super
interesting is that they have absolutely no empathy or connection
to other people's feelings. And it's that thing where like
to imagine like you could kind of break down of like,
so you're an arsonist, You're you have like almost.

Speaker 1 (01:44:16):
Like a sexual fetish for fire, so you're forced to
set these fires.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
That's one thing where you're just like you can't control
it to set a fire during business hours of a
large business and then four people get trapped inside that
fire and die, and you still write about them like
it's fiction, Like it's just this fun idea you have,
Like he has absolutely no connection to other human beings.

Speaker 3 (01:44:41):
Does that mean that does that mean that they don't
have feelings like us either, Like, if you can't be
empathetic towards other people's feelings, does it mean you don't
know what it's like to be sad, You don't know
all what it's like to be happy or angry.

Speaker 2 (01:44:54):
Or No, I think they have their own feelings, they
just don't understand. So this is kind of interesting and
this could be completely off, but this is my own
personal theory because my therapist is really into like all
that brain research and how like a lot of times
we blame ourselves for just what our natural brain does.

(01:45:16):
So like people are like, I'm super anxious, but actually,
like our brain are amygdala that like is set to
it trains us to look for predators constantly. So if
you're not thinking about the past, if you're not like
going over what you did the last time you tried
to go hunt a bison or whatever. Then if you're

(01:45:37):
in the present, you're just scanning for danger, and that's
our natural brain set. It's either excuse me, reviewing the
past for mistakes or scanning the present or possible future
for danger. These days, people think that means I'm crazy,
when it's like, no, no, that's the natural set point
of your brain.

Speaker 3 (01:45:54):
I'm anxious, and it's like, no, you're just constantly scanning
for things that could go wrong, right, And maybe you're
overdoing it because of whatever reasons.

Speaker 1 (01:46:01):
But it's normal to.

Speaker 3 (01:46:03):
Be like that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
But I think part of the reason people think they're
overdoing it it is because people think they're supposed to
be at some zen neutral nothing where it's like no,
an active mind is a natural thing, especially a mind
that's like be.

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
Careful, be careful, be careful. That makes me feel better. Yeah,
it's like why we're alive.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
It's why we our ancestors lived, and other people died
because that part of their brain didn't work as well.

Speaker 1 (01:46:26):
Yeah, motherfuckers, it's not as.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
Bad as you think. But so this other part, there's
lots of theory that she told me that made me
very happy. But the other one was we have this
thing called mirror neurons that they're just kind of now
like doing research on and understanding. But it's the thing
of like when you watch one of those videos of
a soldier coming home and his dog losing its shit, right,
and it just makes you cry, that's because that's not

(01:46:51):
happening to you. But your brain doesn't know that because
your brain is watching another human being which it looks
like you and seems like you go through an experience
that the mirror neuron goes, this is what it feels
like when this happens. And then like right now I'm
getting tingles thinking about those videos because my brain goes,
it's you when you are taking in that information.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
The way your brain process it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:15):
Is that you're having these emotions that that person's having
exactly because you're empathetic and you can understand exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
And that's how we stay connected, and that's how we
make sure we have food every night. And shelter is
because you need human connection to survive, like it's tribe mentality,
it's survival instincts. Psychopaths haven't well, I shouldn't say that,
because that's now I'm making suit up.

Speaker 3 (01:47:38):
But one would say that they don't. They're not have
that ability.

Speaker 4 (01:47:41):
We know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:41):
I was about to say they don't have mirror neurons.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
I know nothing about the brain chemistry or anything, but
we know for a fact they don't have empathy. So
when they watch a soldier come home and its dog
loses its shit and all those things, they just are
watching a video of two things touching each other. So
it's not like they get Madly has sexual feelings. He
has he wants to be famous, he wrote this thing,

(01:48:03):
He wants different things. He just has no connectors to
the people around him, and know he doesn't understand if
something happens to that person it feels the same to
them as it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
Say that happens to him. Wow, that's heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:48:20):
I over explained that, but I really felt like an expert,
and sometimes you just want to keep on feeling like
an expert.

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
If there's any corrections cornish or that save it, just
let me be right this one time. Have some empathy.
If you have empathy, you wouldn't correct where that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:36):
Come on, I'm gonna go ahead and say we're right,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:48:40):
I mean, I think I was at least in the
ballpark this time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Well, also because I watch are really good. There's some
real good videos. This can be my good thing of
the week. Okay, it's I found these videos that are
just you know those ones. They explain something with an illustration.
So there's someone talking about it's being drawn.

Speaker 1 (01:48:59):
Yes, I got it. Now you put an arrow to
a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
Yes, And suddenly it's clear you just have a little
ikea guy that's actually acting it out.

Speaker 1 (01:49:07):
Now I get it. He has a happy face and
a sad face. Yea, and that's how you know how
he's feeling. But no hair for some reason. Too much.
So I found a series of videos by.

Speaker 2 (01:49:19):
The people who make them, is called psych to the
Number two Go, And so it's like, what does it
mean to be a psychopath? Or how to know if
you're dating a sociopath, or you know, how to deal
with your anxiety?

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
Whatever. But then I'm like, what is psych to Go?
I've never heard of you before, So I start looking
into that.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
It brings me to a website that says psychology buy
Millennials form.

Speaker 1 (01:49:44):
And then it kicked you out. It's like, enter your
birth date, get out of here, Grandma, this.

Speaker 3 (01:49:49):
Is you had endo your birthday and it's like, eh,
start out.

Speaker 2 (01:49:53):
Sorry, it made me laugh so hard that it's like,
finally psychology for me, psychology I can relate to.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
Yeah, but actually it seems like a good website.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
I was just trying to make sure it wasn't like
secretly scientology for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:50:11):
And then it was like and anyways, kill kill, kill
Karen and then send us the money.

Speaker 1 (01:50:17):
Yeah, No, it wasn't that. That's sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:50:21):
My positive thing is that Vincena are going away for
my birthday for a couple of days, and I just
can't wait to get out of the city.

Speaker 1 (01:50:27):
And go antiquing. I'm gonna eat so much food. Maybe
they'll be a massage in there. Oh hey, he out
of town from two that's gonna be so nice.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
And you're gonna be by the ocean, right, yeah, so
you get to have some some of them negative ions, which.

Speaker 1 (01:50:46):
Is real good for you. If that happened, that's the
ocean air. That's why ocean air.

Speaker 2 (01:50:51):
Always feels good and like makes you feel refreshed. It's
them negative ions that we don't get in this polluted city.

Speaker 1 (01:50:58):
I'm into it, okay, okay, bye, and no, wait, that
was fun. Should we wrap it up. I feel like
we didn't wrap it up correctly. That's good. I like
your fire story, Thank you. Yeah, I'm gonna watch that.

Speaker 3 (01:51:12):
The whole time in my mind, I was like picturing
how the forensic files would look. Yeah, so as you
were telling it to me, I was like, oh, yeah,
then this thing would happen, like how bad The like
reenactments probably were from the nineties, And.

Speaker 1 (01:51:24):
Yes, there was a lot of They had a lot
of home video. Oh okay, the Dawn of like real
because it was his home video.

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
Yes, he would go to the fucking fires and set
up his video camera, dude or his He had a
lot of like hard copy photos.

Speaker 1 (01:51:41):
Fuck. Yeah, it's the craziest.

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
Like I think that might be my favorite is the
person that's been wearing a mask and then doing horrifying
things and no one knows and like it's almost like people.

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
Don't want to know.

Speaker 3 (01:51:56):
Yeah, I wish someone would talk to him. It's crazy
that he's still alive and like houseless information but won't
even like admit to it so we can like figure
him out.

Speaker 2 (01:52:07):
Oh no, in his mind, he's it's another one of
those things. He's being victimized. He's completely innocent. He has
never admitted to anything, so I wonder what that is
all about too. He's a psychopath. They don't admit they're there,
even if he does, he know he did it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
How can you think he's tricking anyone? He's in Jailorus's life.

(01:52:28):
I guess well, he did trick people for so long,
and it's the that's part of the mental illness, is
like they're they think they're the kind of the king
of the world. Well shit, I mean, fuck, don't do it. Look,
stay away, if you do anything. If you don't do anything,
please let it be light everything on fire. Yeah right, yes,

(01:52:52):
you've heard me say that. A million tone is not your.

Speaker 1 (01:52:55):
Lower back, jack dude.

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
It wraps all the way around my haunt, your hat,
your cackles. I want to get my cockles up.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
Well, thanks for listening you guys. You guys are the
fucking sweetest. You're number one, number one, Stephen, Thank you, Stephen,
Thank you for all your accents this week. I'm pretty good. Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:53:21):
Oh there was a moment of thinking, Mimi, thank you
for your input this week.

Speaker 1 (01:53:27):
Come on now this one, MEMI all right, Mimi's like, no,
that's not I'm not that one. No comment, and I
think while I did that, I broke this microphone. So
that was great.

Speaker 3 (01:53:36):
Thanked it right down something too, well, thanks for listening
to you guys. Yeah, stay sexy and don't get murdered.
Elvis one cookie, MEMI, one cookie that was Elvis.

Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
Okay, Bye

Speaker 4 (01:54:00):
Feral Audio