77 - Live At The Keswick Theatre

This week’s My Favorite Murder comes to you live from the Keswick. On stage, Karen and Georgia cover the killers Gary Heidnik and Edward Gingerich.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:29):
What a Philly. Oh oh oh, never's good for you.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I was pointing up there, there's nobody up there.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Hey, you guys have the blcony ceiling.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I was like, I think this is much bigger than
it is.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
No, I'm still pretty big little bit because actually yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Uh else, But that was a good scream that for
any it's me. You know, when you walk on and
people are all screaming at you at one time.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I started got a try too, and it felt really good.
You did what I started screaming and nobody heard me,
and it was like great, Like do want a fucking
weird scream?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah? Yeah to kind of a primal thing, right, But
at the top of the show, yeah yeah, I'm lost.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Service now, Yeah, this is the last show of this
fucking tour.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
You guys.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
For one second, I almost went, is it really?

Speaker 4 (01:35):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:35):
We're gonna sack o one of you too?

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Night we decided it would be fun to end the
tour with an actual murder. Yeah yeah, chosen at random,
just like Shirley Jackson's lottery. So don't worry.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Everyone has a stone. If you don't have a stone
in your house in your hand, you're.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
The person with right, we all throw the rocks at
the person without a rock. That's such a good plan,
is It's like you're like a You're kind of like
a Shirley Jackson's Lottery director in a way.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Can we get uh? Yeah? Like for the children? Do
they ever have that in children? Children?

Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's what you'd like to do. They don't, wait, did
you what kind of shoes did you bring?

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Well?

Speaker 2 (02:21):
I brought these in more than the first night and
then said fuck that and more like aerosol slip ons
the next night, like and then I was like, this
is the last show, I should probably dress up, and
so I put fancy shoes on and fake eyelashes on.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, thank you Georgia for carrying the weight and your dress.
Oh yeah, we checked this the other game. Missy, miss
sophisticated miss it's taking a walk in that outfit?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Deticated, isn't she a sophisticated miss?

Speaker 5 (02:59):
Get on up here, can kill Garreff and show them
your your outfit flats, thank you, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I brought high heels. I think I wore them the
first night on Friday night, and I was just like,
I don't know, I like the slippers feel yeah, I
don't you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Well, that sucks.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
No, I totally get it. Should I take I'm taking
these off now? Yeah whatever you guys saw.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Them, We're just like Alanis Morris set, all barefoot and
fucking we don't get it.

Speaker 5 (03:36):
Do it?

Speaker 3 (03:37):
I uh?

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Also, these shoes are my fanciest shoes, but they have
the bottoms like there's just a nail.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's just a nail like that.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
The thing fell off years probably decades ago probably, and
I'm just like, well, they're tap shoes now.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, click giddy click kick click click click. You should
have done a little something, shouldn't a ship that the
next tour there's going to be a very large choreographic
coment on the next jour.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
I think we're kidding. We're not kidding.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
We're gonna do tear away outfits and I would personally
like to do some sort of a we are a
part of the Rhythm Nation break down.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Weally, any outfit is a tear away outfit if you
really put your heart into it.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
End of the show.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
That's right, Tarror on this ship away. I never want
to wear this dress again. By the way, it smells
like smells like three hotels and yeah, it's not it's
not working for me.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
What are your favorite memories from this tour?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Thank you for asking, Georgia. Could I get a spotlight
over here please? Just from this weekend or the whole thing,
the whole thing, you guys has been going on for
a really long time. We started February.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Started in February Portland, Nope, Oakland, Oakland, Yes, box theater
in Oakland.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Oh. We were so young and innocent.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Then I forgot my passport to go to Vancouver the
next day.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
That's right. It started with some drama.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, and it's been fucking rock and roll ever since.
It really has.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
We have a we have a short video of our
highlights to show you.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
It's a montage, right, directed by Wes Anderson. Everything's all
centered up. I think, then sah, he's not here, But
I would say this. My favorite memory probably would be

(05:44):
and you're going to have to tell me where it happened, Okay, right,
I'll remember Indianapolis, I think, Okay, maybe Milwaukee.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Oh the girl there was a girl who.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
In the audience threw up and then crawled up the
out of the theater.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
That is.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
You're fucking giving them an idea. That's how Karen loved me.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I mean, yeah, I'm a you gotta earn it if
you want it. And I was like, that is a
girl who's doing an impression of me when I was
twenty four aug and miss her.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Last night we had a girl who ended up doing
the hometown murder but she tweeted at us and was like,
I got I dated a murderer and they were like,
oh my gosh. And she's like, in fact, I want
to tell it so bad, I'm gonna wait to get
black out drunk. Kll After the show, we're like, well,
maybe we shouldn't pick her. Okay, she changes her mind.
But then Karen fucking Voodoo just random picked a girl
in the audience and it was her.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
It turned out to be her.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Do you understand what that felt like to me? Yeah?
The power at it that.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I now know, I wheeled. It was super weird because
I have to say I do I like to do
that kind of when you do the picking right, was like,
m we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. But then there
was just something where I was like, it's got to
be this girl over here, but we already had somebody. Yeah,
who had written something out that was amazing. So she
came up and did it, and then we were like,

(07:08):
we have time for one more. And then I was like,
it's got to be you. And Georgia had already written
that girl's name down off of Twitter, written it on
a piece of paper in case we forgot. So the
girl walks up and I said, what's your name? And
she was Amanda. And then Georgia just holds the paper
up with her name on it like some fucking and
I was like, bashing magic tricks with.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
You and she's like what, She's like, Oh, let's fuck.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
We were all creeped out. It was the best night.
Let's do it again. Yeah, oh we will, Oh we will.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Don't you hate it when you do something insane and
wonderful like that, like when you turn to the right page,
like the exact right page, or like something crazy happens
and coincidential and your friend is like that's cool. You're like, no,
you're not, Dand I begged her from the audience, no, no,
it's cool. Yeah, So I gave I gave you your
what I did the you really did it, new ma'am.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
That you did say last night you did it tonight.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I thought you were gonna say your favorite thing was
when the girl fucking ran on stage.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I don't like that. All right, well we this zow domain.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Let's not let's not repeat that. Yeah, it's kind of triggering.
It's triggering. We've talked so.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Much about her. I don't think any of it we
want to. I just like, no, we lookesd her?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
What other things? I guess we went to cracker barrel
Mines are always food, is it? What did we eat backstage?
We just had some great Chinese food. Crab rangoon, it's
always my favorite part. What kind of snacks do they
have backstage?

Speaker 3 (08:36):
I grab rangoon? We demand it.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's on our right, it's on our right or nose.
I don't have that. We're not going on stage. That's
why we're ten minutes late. Only minutes late.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
They had to go to Shrewsbury to get crab rangoon.
Local jokes don't get local work.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Okay, fine, I guess this is our last shuttle.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
This is why.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yep, we went antiquing. Is it not called Shrewsbury? Am
I saying it wrong? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (09:03):
That was right? I'm saying yeah, that was right. That's
what you said earlier.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, I'm like I'm saying the same thing twice. Everyone
heres like, we don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
We did go antiquing, Yeah, lost our minds.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Georgia, this is my favorite. Oh, George's like I have
to get these books. I want to get that mirror,
and it's like all stuff you do not want to
travel with. She's just like, what about this old anvil,
let's buy that?

Speaker 3 (09:30):
And Vince was like, I don't know, and I'm like,
I'll make it fit. I will get it in there.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Get it, and I did. I pecked it today. I
have a fucking shopping problem, like for it real, but
it was so cheap, like four bucks for this, Like okay,
I have a problem. You had to get it, but
it's a fun problem. You had no choice.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
And then I do that, like this is so cute,
but I don't need it. Who could I get this for?
Oh I have a friend who has Okay, I get it.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Then you're antique shopping for a friend who doesn't probably
want it.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, Because it was the thing that made me laugh
when she was buying it was a really beautiful antique
baby dress, but also that's haunted. So why would you?
Why would you?

Speaker 3 (10:13):
That's a very good boy.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Lauren's gonna be like fangs.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Oh my daughter is haunted night. Thanks for the possession, Georgia.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
She was never the same again after that. She just
keeps her head, just.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Keeps spinning around.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Her voice got really deep.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, so thanks for the nine dollars child's dress.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Oh it's a cute.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
What else you know?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
So many memories, so many great times. White Castle we did?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Uh no, no more food, not white Castle.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh fuck, we didn't find a white castle.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
We never got to white Castle.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Shit, I met Cracker Barrel. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Which was amazing, just as good as you all said
it would be.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
And then yesterday Vince was like, I don't I guess
I don't. I don't want to go to the barbecue
place that Georgia wants to go to.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
But we go to Arby's. I don't think.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
He's standing right over there, no, sorry, like he's walking away.
Well he's driving the rental car away. Now we have
to take a train home.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Fuck.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
I liked Arby's only because yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
There was a picture, and Vince, actually I think put
it on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Arby's now has a thing called the meat Mountain.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
You guys know about this.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
This is really wooing like they've had it.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
I know, I hope you have. The meat Mountain is
in every arby sandwich in just two pieces of bread.
So it's just like turkey roast, beef brisket, a fried
chicken patty, this, this ham whatever, and it's pork belly.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
This was it. Yeah, it's so.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
There was a little like like a cardboard poster was
standing on the counter, and as I was standing there
looking to see what I was gonna get, I looked down.
I was like, oh my god, and there was a
guy doing the exact same thing. And he goes, oh
my god, that scared me, which is my favorite thing.
Just a stranger and I just start laughing and her
asses off at Rby's insane, like they're trying to kill us.

(12:24):
They're trying to kill us.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Heart attack mountain for real?

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Hey, yeah, what happy Mother's stayed Happy Mothers.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's nice.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Got a couple of moments.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Oh man, a pregnant chick let us touch her belly.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
That sounds creepy.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
What I'm trying to say is we were after the
show we were taking some photos with people and like,
you know, you don't I didn't say anything, but I
was like, there's her. I'm gonna let her mention that
she's pregnant because I don't say.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
That she could have had just a small tumor.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, And then she goes, well, can I pose with
you guys? Touching my belly? And like all I ever
want is to touch pregnant. Like when I see someone pregnant,
I can't be like sometimes I don't know why. It's
like so sweet to me.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
And like finally someone asked me to do it, and
me going, can I ask this word?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
It's one of the benefits of fame. That and really
great coke, and when you.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Combine them, oh my god, next level high. Have you
guys ever tried getting high when you're pregnant? It is
next level.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
All the mothers in the audience right now are like,
I don't like this show, or though I don't like
what they're saying, and I don't like what they stand for, No,
they agree you think they're they're high as balls.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
My mom told me she was. She had a glass
of whiskey in a tail and all every night when
she was pregnant with a very am Now you know
she's like, I was stressed, I had two other children
the book, and then she dropped my brother.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, it's as if that's such a great combination. Like
in the seventies everyone did tail and all. I like
the sound of that so much. My mom used to
always be like, people make such a big deal about
pregnant women smoking. I smoked with both of you, and

(14:15):
I was like, yeah, I had really bad asthma, and
Laura's stupid, So like, how about it's not a good idea.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
We love our moms. They did a great job.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Wonderful families that we're both from. What wonderful family? We
have to stand right next to each other. Sometimes we're
in theaters so big that we literally cannot hear each
other speaking on stage. It's super Uh, it's great for comedy.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Do you think in Franklin? What's it called Hamilton? I
flung everything in high school.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
You're just called it Franklin. That is not for laugh
That's actually the rap opera about the one black kid
from Peanuts, which is so good you have to see
it done.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
And then that says why she's the stand up man.
He ran with that one.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I've been waiting to say that for nine years. You
just file things away, you take them and you file
them away. You wait. Great, Yeah, it's a waiting game.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
I was gonna say, do you think that they say
what to each other? But that's not that was funny
or so now I'm ending it on.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Like a lower note. Sometimes we call that a tag.
Oh a tag. Okay, some moms thanks, thanks moms for shit.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
But I bet they actually in Hamilton they do say
what did I just pull out a cute plump of
my own hair?

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Oh my god, I'm so dressed out.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
How did that happen?

Speaker 1 (15:43):
She's shedding. Jesus Christ. I need to take vitamins. No
more Rby's for me.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
She was on stage when the first symptom appeared. What
if that happened? Everyone remembers it was ominous. Oh my god.
Oh well yep, that kay. I'll bring you soup for
whatever happens.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Thank you, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Oh we got we got wished Happy Mother's Day too
many times today in like a you are mothering age, yes,
so congratulations and we're.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Both like the fuck No, this is me looking at
my phone all day long. People saying that.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh, like when they tweet things and sta like happy Mother's.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Day to my mom, to my mom, I'm not your
fucking mom. Oh about us? Wait, what what are we
talking about?

Speaker 2 (16:37):
I met like strangers at the hotel. Oh that's day,
and I was just.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Like, we're not thank you. I just to thank you,
but you too.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah. I'm like, can't you see from my really thick
black eyeliner that I'm no one's mother?

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah? Maybe they thought Vince was our kid.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Hair just falling, hair falling out. I only called your
mother because your hair is falling out and clumps. Good point.
Good point.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I posted a photo of my mom today.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
My friend texted me and was like, can I just
fucking say I hate people who are like post photos
of their mom and like love you so much, thank
you for everything you've done to me. And she's like
they're not their moms are never going to see it.
They're doing it for everyone else. Yeah, And I literally
just said I posted mine so everyone could see how
hot my mom was when she's young. And I just
wrote if it's not one thing, it's her mother, which

(17:27):
my sister done. Yeah, and so it's like, how fucking
hot my mom is and so am I, and then
so am I.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Bathed because she was hot. Yeah, that's why I did it.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
But then later you posted a picture of Ted Bundy
and his mother, which I liked.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
A lot of Happy Mother's Day. I was looking for
an ed gean mom. There's no, they don't pose with
each other. There was no ed geen.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
No, they weren't allowed to touch and his mom they
there's a lot of rules in that household.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah about mother touching the skin bodies. There's a photo
of there's a skin bodies photo of them, but there's
no mother and son right.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Anyhow. Anyways, fire exits are on either side of the theater,
and of course straight back where you entered drink in
this part.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
It's the last time we're going to do it.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
For a while. I've had a lot of coffee. I
just realized and I'm talking like it. Yes, this is
so sad, I know, but.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Great, it's going to be super fun. Let's not be
sad yet since they paid money to come.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
To our show. Yeah, you came to see us, happy
show face show.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, we're gonna shine.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Should we sit down? Yeah, let's downtour Oh, look.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
At these haunted seats here haunted.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, like a lady, here's your here's your sweat towel.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh, thank you, Greg, I'm like dabbing sweat and then
just like pulling hair.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Patten here, Karen, Are you okay?

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Nope?

Speaker 3 (19:09):
I just I went on vacation to cher Noble.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
So do you know I would totally go. I like
want to go there. No, I can't, yues, you can
for like a limited amount of time.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
They like time it. I'm not fucking kidding. Oh they
say time it like they give you a tour, but
it's like we're gonna dip in for seven minutes, then
we're gonna run away.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, and they're like, here's where you're here's where it's
at right now, here's how much, here's how many Like
you can go get a tour. But they're like, you're
literally taking five years off your life.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yeah, and I'm like, who wants to live to be
eighty five? I don't care about to see Chernobyl.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Cut it right down, honestly, tell everyone on the rest
home you went to Chernobyl. I do hear there's interesting
animals there, right?

Speaker 2 (19:52):
I have, yes, the soils all fucked up, so these
things are like growing up.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
I mean, like a rabbit with a face on the
back of its head. I'm I'm down for that.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
A crab rangoon in my teeth. Crab rangoon. That's the
word of the night.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Should I go first? Oh? This is my favorite murder?

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oh everybody, thank you for coming to our live podcast.
Thank you for being Thank you.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
For coming this. We fucking love doing this.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
It's so fun.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
You No, I went first last time last night, So
I go first.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Right, Yeah, I believe so you guys wouldn't know. All right, Well,
I uh. I picked a man who I've been reading
about for several days. There's a lot of things to
read about him, and none of them are good. And
his name is Gary Hydnick. Do you know Gary Hide?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, they love him.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
We always say it this morning, like this is where
the ushers are like, holy fuck, what's going is this?

Speaker 3 (21:09):
What is happening in there? They were cheering for a
serial killing.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Jesus, we gotta get that acappella group back. This shit
is weird. All right, I'm gonna tell you a little
something about Gary. He was born in November of nineteen
forty three. His parents divorced two years later and then
he and his brother went to live with their father

(21:33):
and their new stepmother. Of course, the father is a
bum out, alcoholic, abusive. I don't think he physically abused them,
but he did the classic name. Gary was a bedwetter,
and so to teach Gary to stop wedding the bed,
he took his sheets and put them out the windows
so the whole neighborhood could see, which also Michael Lander's

(21:55):
father did.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
I I thought I heard that recently.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, yeah, little house in the Parry anyone, No, okay,
I'm the oldest person in the room. Fine, fine, uh oh,
I told Georgia the other day we were we were
telling childhood stories. I also wed the bed when I
was a child. Yeah, we booked it. It was it

(22:18):
was lazy. It wasn't that. It wasn't that. But I
did it up until my mother, who was a psychiatric nurse,
tricked me by one day handing me as I went
to bed. She was, oh, come here, the doctor gave
me something to give you, and she poured cranberry juice,
like that much cranberry juice into a little glass and

(22:38):
then she goes, drink this. It'll it'll stop you from
wedding the.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Bed and it fucking did whoa trick? Your fucking kids
all up here? She she was a mind game mom,
for sure. She'd also very very early on, like when
I was four, she'd go, I can always tell when
you're lying.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
And then I believed her, so I stopped lying to
her because I was like, well, she's gonna know because
she can tell when I'm lying. O. She was good,
well done, Pat?

Speaker 3 (23:09):
All right? Pat?

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, but also don't forget the smoking. Okay, No one's perfect, Okay.
So uh, this is a this is a bit of
information about Gary Heidnick that I really enjoy in the
in the way that makes me a terrible person. When

(23:32):
he was a child, he fell out of a tree
and hit his head, of course classically, but it also
deformed his head this injury, so then he was made
fun of at school all the time because he had
a misshapen head. It seems sad now, but then when

(23:53):
I tell you shit he did, I'm not going to
be sad anymore for Gary.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
I always try to stop my sympathy because I'm like,
the then he's gonna kill a ton of people and
I'm gonna be bombed.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
I felt bad for him, but also it's that thing
of like what I mean what it was. It was
the fifties. How come we fall out of a tree
and then your head just stays that way? Like no
doctors or anybody to help out, be like okay, there
you go, gear, stay low to the ground from now on. Okay. Uh.

(24:27):
So he ended up dropping out of school and joining
the army, where he trained as a medic and he
actually did very well on the army until he was
transferred to West Germany and he didn't like that assignment.
So there he began to develop odd behavior and he
was eventually diagnosed as having a schizoid personality disorder and

(24:49):
he was honorably discharged with full disability pension. Wow, so
this is like a thing that goes through his life
where no one's actually sure if he was working the
system or if he actually had schizophrenia of some kind
or some kind of mental illness.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Going to that head fucking shape and you know your answer.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, that's true. That could have been part of it.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah, And he's like, they're like, we don't know if
you're crazy, and he's like, but did.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
You see it?

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Dicks out?

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Sorry, let me take my hat off. But there you go. Ah, yes, okay,
So he comes back to Philly and he decides to
be a nurse.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Oh no, uh huh does he do bad things?

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Karen?

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Well, yeah, but not in the hospital.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Okay. It seems like in the beginning he actually really
wanted to be a nurse and help people. He interned
at Philadelphia General Hospital for two years. That was in
nineteen sixty five. Give it up for Philadelphia General Hospital,
What a great place. In nineteen sixty seven, he saved

(26:03):
up enough money from that disability pension payout to buy
his own house and he rented out the bottom two floors,
so he was, you know, a bit of a businessman.
He also started hanging out at the Elwyn Institute for
the Retarded. Now this is a theme that goes through
Gary Heidnik's life, and it's very disturbing because he goes

(26:24):
into the medical profession. He is a nurse. He actually
later tried to study to be a psychiatric nurse, but
he had he behaved so oddly and had such a
bad attitude he got kicked out of the program. But
he started to spend a lot of time at places
that housed the mentally challenged, so he was a predator

(26:46):
from day one.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Can we also clarify that she didn't make that name
up of the institution.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
We don't use that word.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
It was it was you guys. I went, oh, like
she made it up. No, No, it was called that.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
If there's any if I ever use the word institute,
I'm not doing any writing in that line whatsoever. That's
just a cut and paste Elwyn Institute for the Retardant. Okay, So,
but he was starting to he was starting to I

(27:18):
guess his behavior was affecting his work, whether it was
a put on or not. So he ended up getting
also getting fired from the University hospital where he had
gotten a job. In nineteen seventy his mother, Ellen committed suicide,
and from there his behavior got even stranger and worse.

(27:39):
He in nineteen seventy one, he took a trip to
California where he decided he needed to start his own church.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Oh you know the.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Natural path nurse minister.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, it's very clear.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
So when he came back to Philly, he started the
United Church the Ministries of God, nice long name. He was.
He was the ordained minister. He had about fifty parishioners
and most of them were patients that he had met
at the Elwyn Institute.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
For their return fill that room. Yeah, however you can.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah what I mean was that bad? It wasn't great, But.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
No, I just met. I didn't mean that in a.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
I believe you. I know what your intentions.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Okay, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
And now I feel really self conscious about having their feet.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
It's the whole weird like, look at that barefooted bitch. Yeah,
I'm saying all the wrong words. All right, okay, yeah,
quick reminder, we didn't do any of these things. Fucking
Gary did them.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
In nineteen seventy five, he opened a Merrill Lynch account
in the church's name. Uh, and he started investing in stocks.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Oh no, now I go really weird sucks stocks?

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, oh socks. I thought you said.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
He was going to make that good sock money baby.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Well I was like, oh he's crazy.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Now fitning because I was just no, he's the guy
that invented gold toast socks. Oh my god, tube socks.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
That's Gary, all right, but once a little ball in
the back.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
No.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
He took fifteen hundred dollars and he eventually parlated into
a half a million dollars like with good investments and
I don't moxie, okay. So he ends up buying himself
a used Rolls Royce, he bought a Cadillac, he got

(30:11):
a customized van because he's a creepy OLPERV. And then
he bought himself a new house. So during that same time,
he also was in and out of mental hospitals, and
he was because he would get in trouble with the police.
He would pull guns on people. He's super aggressive, a
lot of weapons charges, and when they would interact with him,

(30:33):
they'd just be like, fifty one fifty, you're yeah, ot
of your mind, okay. So in nineteen seventy eight he'd begins,
this is going to get problematic everybody. In nineteen seventy eight,
he begins dating a mentally challenged woman named Angeline, and
they have a daughter together. So one day he decides

(30:56):
that they should go, Oh sorry, her name is Angelique,
and they just they need to go visit Angelique's sister, Alberta,
who is also mentally challenged, and she lives in a home.
So they go, they visit her, they sign her out
on a day pass and she never comes back, and
so the staff goes to investigate, and eventually they find

(31:19):
Alberta chained up in Gary's basement. Well, yeah, so she'd
been raped and she had contracted gonorrhea from that. So
he's charged and he's sentenced to three to seven years
in prison. That's it.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, it's nineteen seventy eight.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
This was back when rape was not that big of
a deal. So in nineteen eighty three, he's released from
prison after serving four years and four months, and he
immediately signs up for a mail order bride service. Yeah,
he's a romantic, so corresponding with a twenty two year

(32:01):
old Filipino woman named Betty Disto, and he tells her,
of course, I'm a minister and I have my own
church here in Philadelphia. And eventually, in through these letters,
he proposes to her and he convinces her to fly
to Philadelphia and marry him, and she does and everything's

(32:22):
great for a week.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Oh my god, not long enough to sustain a relationship.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
No, I feel like you need to build in more time,
more than seven days.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, But so it's what happens is Betty leaves the
house one day and when she comes back, she finds
Gary in bed with three women, and she freaks out
and is like, what the fuck is going on? And
then he's like, get in here, you old nut, Get
in here, Betty, you old stick in the mud. And

(32:56):
she's horrified, of course, and baffled, and so then that's
when the mask comes off and he starts to beat her.
He's becomes incredibly violent. It all turns and he basically
just starts constantly bringing home sex workers and mentally challenged

(33:16):
women to have sex with. And she's just like, I'm
in the fucking nightmare world and a different country and
she doesn't she doesn't know anybody but him and his friends.
So she eventually turned to the Philip Pino community in
Philadelphia and is just like, can someone please help me
because I'm like basically abandon here with this lunatic. And
so the people that she meets there say you have

(33:39):
to leave, and you just have to leave and don't
come back, and they kind of set up a plan
for her, and so she one day tells Gary well,
she tries to confront him to say that she's had enough.
This is not the life that he had promised her,
and he beats the shit out of her and raves her.
So four days after that, she says, I'm gonna go

(34:00):
out shopping super quick. I'll be right back, and she
fucking bails and doesn't come back for her Yeah. Right,
And then she went into some Philadelphia Filipino American underground
and they took care of her and she never saw
her again. Yeah, pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Good job, that's right, So remember that if you're ever
in trouble.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
H Okay, two weeks later, the cops come and pick
up Gary for spousal rape, for domestic abuse, for in
decent assault, and for involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. Unfortunately, the
parole period for the last uh, for the last sexual
offenses that he had been in jail for had ended

(34:48):
the day before. Yes, so uh, Betty doesn't show up
in court to testify against him, and so all the
charges are dropped.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
And which is so insane that you're like, you're a
victim and it's not going to happen unless you come
and fucking reopen all the wounds you're working to get past, right, Like,
can't they just use hearsay?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
No?

Speaker 3 (35:13):
I was saying that. I was like, that doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
It's not gonna work now, Yeah, but it makes it
so hard. Okay. So this is basically a turning point
in Gary Heidnan's life, where her leaving him and the
lack of control that he had over her for doing
that kind of set him off in a major way.
So this is nineteen eighty six. It's Thanksgiving and he

(35:38):
goes out to find a sex worker, and that same night,
Josephina Rivera had gone out to try to make some
money so she could get so she could buy her
family Thanksgiving dinner. And so she's out, it's raining, it's
cold night, and a Cadillac pulls up and makes her

(35:58):
an offer. She gets in and it's Gary and he
drives her to thirty five twenty North Marshall Street and
when they pull into the driveway, she sees the roll's
voices and she sees fancy cars, and she's like, this
is probably I'm gonna get everything done yeah and get out.
So she feels hopeful, you know, She's like, Okay, this

(36:19):
is this is going to be good, and I'm gonna
get my money and be able to get out of here.
So when they go up to his front door, he
pulls out this really weird looking key, and what it
is is half a key, and she asks him what
the deal is and he said, the other half of
the key is already in the lock, so I am
the only person that can open this door because he's

(36:39):
the only person that has the other half. Right, you're
standing there and you're just like, okay, well, okay, we'll
see what happens. So yeah, So they go into his house,
they go upstairs, they have sex, and when she is
getting dressed again and she thinks she's about to leave,

(37:02):
he comes up from behind starts choking her, almost chokes
her out. She's begging him to stop, and he says, fine,
get down on her knees and put your hands behind
your back. So he handcuffs her wrists behind her back
and then he walks her down into his basement. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
I wish we had a picture. Sometimes we have visuals
dying to see what he looks like.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Give me your arm so I can pinch it. There's
a picture of there's a picture of this basement. And
it's not good. It's not finished. He doesn't have any shelving,
it's not swept. It's the creepiest fucking looking basement in
the world. There's a dirty mattress on the ground and

(37:48):
there's some plywood. The concrete on one side of the
basement has been pulled up and there's plywood on the
ground right. So he and there's a bunch of exposed
pipes and stuff. He takes her and chains her to
these exposed pipes. He sits her on the mattress so
she's changed these pipes behind her. Then he puts his

(38:11):
head in her lap and goes to sleep.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Can you imagine this is not how I expected this
to go?

Speaker 3 (38:18):
And it's almost creepier.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yes, yeah, because he's just chilling out. So she then,
of course eventually also kind of nods off. When she
wakes up, he's gone. She's still chained to the wall,
and she looks around and she sees that the plywood
has been moved and there is a small pit in

(38:41):
the center of the room. So Gary comes back with
some crackers and water, and he explains he's got a plan,
and his plan is that he's going to get ten
women pregnant so he can start his own family.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Oh my god, uh huh.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
You know how you do down in an abasement.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
They say it's the most romantic room of the house,
don't they.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yep, those unfinished basements. The ladies let them, okay, he
leaves again. Josephina realizes she's fucked. This is crazy, this
is bad, and she has to get out of there.
So she starts working on her handcuffs, and she somehow
is able to loosen some kind of a tie.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
That she has.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I'm not exactly sure how, but she basically is able
to reach up and push open the basement window and
lift herself up, and she starts screaming out of it.
And she screams and screams and screams, and nobody hears her.
I know it except Gary. So Gary comes down and

(39:48):
he unchained her from the wall and he says, you're
not ever going to get out of here, so stop trying.
And then he puts her in the pit and it's
not it's barely big enough to hold a person like.
She's all super smashed up in there. And he puts
the plywood on top of her, and then he puts
like bags of soil on top of the plywood, so

(40:09):
she's totally weighted down and she's totally stuck in there.
And then as he leaves the basement, he turns it
on like the hard rock station and turns the radio
all the way up, so even if she screams, no
one's gonna be able to hear her over the music. Yes,
all right, So she's down in there, and then when

(40:31):
she wakes up, she wakes up to the sound of
a woman speaking and the sound of chains. And what's
happened is Gary. Gary lets her out and she stands up,
and she's all cramped up from being down that fucking pit.
And she sees that Gary has a half naked mentally
challenged woman with him, and he's basically brought another woman

(40:53):
down into this basement, and he introduces them, because he
is nothing if not a mannered person. Her name is Sandy,
and he leaves, and so Sandy tells Josephine her name
is Sandra Lindsay and that she met Gary at the

(41:15):
Elwyn Institute for the Retarded. So when he was going there,
he was basically going there and meeting patients and making,
you know, making them believe that he was their friend
and grooming them to basically eventually be molested by him
and convinced them that he was their boyfriend so he

(41:37):
could have complete control over them. So they are chained
to the wall together, and the next morning they're eating
breakfast and uh which is crackers, and they hear a
knock at the front door of the house and it

(41:58):
turns out that Sandy Says, and her cousins are looking
for her because they when she didn't come home the
night before, they knew it was bad. And so they're
out on the street. They had found a friend of
Sandy's name Tony, that they knew she hung out with
a lot, and they went to Tony and they were like,
who else do you know that Sandy knows? And they

(42:18):
were like, we know this guy named Gary. That she's
the first girl. Sorry, Sandy was the second girl. Josephina
is the first girl daughter. And Josephina is well, you'll see,
she's she's in it the whole time. It's pretty amazing.
So Sandy, so Tony gives Sandy's cousins and sister Gary's
address and they come and knock on the door, but

(42:41):
Gary just doesn't answer it. And then when they leave,
he comes downstairs and he has Sandy write two letters
to her mother saying I'm fine, I ran away, don't
worry about me. I'll get a hold of you later.
So then he tells the girls that his plan is
he's going to drive into New York and send the
letters from New York, so they see that the post

(43:02):
mark is from New York and they believe that she
ran away. Well, of course, when Sandy's mother gets these letters,
she's like, no, she's never written a letter like this
in her life. This is not this is there's something
even more wrong here. But they take it to the
police and the police will not listen. They are like,
this is a runaway. She's an adult. It's fine, don't
you know. This is just somebody that didn't want to

(43:24):
live with you anymore. She's a runaway. They can't get
the police to help. These are all also, I guess
I should say all these people are black except for
Gary Heidnick. So I think that also probably had a big,
a big part of it. Was there this out handed
dismissal of like, oh, well, don't worry about them. You know,

(43:44):
they're they're doing what they want. A lot of people
accused of being prostitutes when they're not, or sex workers
when they're not. Really really shitty treatment. Okay, so uh so,
all right, that was that whole page.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
I hand wrote this.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Okay, but thanks. Yeah, that's all. I wanted a little
bit of credit for my handwriting. Okay. So now it's
three days before Christmas and Gary picks up a girl
named Lisa Thomas as she's walking to her friend's house.
She's nineteen years old. She is not a sex worker,
she's not mentally challenged, but she is impressed by his

(44:25):
car and his generosity. He offers to take her to dinner.
He's very sweet to her. Once she's in the car,
she found she finds that he's very charming, and he
tries to get her to go to Atlantic City with him,
and she said, I can I don't even have good
clothes on. He pulls out a fifty dollars bill and says,
you can go buy some new clothes right now. And

(44:45):
so she gets caught up in you know, this guy,
you know treating her so well. And at one point
he says, come back to my house. We'll drink some
wine and watch movies. So they do that, and while
while there, she drinks a bunch of wine and falls
asleep on his couch. When she wakes up, he's raping her.
When he finishes, she gets up and is putting her
clothes on and he does the thing where he strangles

(45:08):
her from behind and gets her on her knees and
then handcuffs her. So then he brings her down into
the basement and he takes the plywood and Lisa. He
pulls the plywood off the pit, and Lisa sees that
Josephina and Sandy are down in the pit, which I
can when I was reading that part of just like

(45:29):
can you fucking imagine that? Like, there's people, This basement's
creepy enough, and then it's like, oh, yeah, you guys, move,
there's somebody. Yeah, there's there's a bunch of people down
here and they haven't been able to get out.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Oh no, all right.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Ten days later, he comes home with Deborah Dudley. Now
Deborah Dudley, I believe is mentally challenged, but she fights
him the entire time she's there. So she starts, yeah,
so here's the thing, though, he has it so and

(46:03):
he eventually starts manipulating all of them. So if Debora
Dudley's fighting with him, he beats her, and then he'll
beat the other girls for her having fought him, So
then they start trying to fight her to get her
to stop fighting him. Because everybody's getting beaten. He takes
a big like two by four and beats the shit
out of all of them and they have to watch it.

(46:23):
Then he starts, he makes them have sex with each other,
and he just stands there and watches.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
So it's just this degradation.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
And this beating and mind fuck and mind fucking, so
that they are all basically trying to get him to
treat them better. And so it's that thing of he'll
pick one to not beat and he'll be like, i'll
leave you with the stick. I'm leaving. You're in charge.
If anyone misbehaves, you beat them. Then when he would
come back, if nobody had been beaten, they'd all get

(46:53):
beaten because somebody should have been beaten while he was.
It's all that kind of shit's fucked up happening stuff
down there, some fucked up happening stuff. That's what it's
called in the textbooks, all right.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
So so on U.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Two weeks later after that, he brings eighteen year old
sex worker Jacqueline Haskins into the basement. And then and
then on January eighteenth, Sandra gets caught. The second girl.
She gets caught trying to move the plywood off the
pit because they're down. He puts them in the pit altogether.
So he's dug it out a little bit. It's getting

(47:34):
bigger and bigger. Okay, he comes down and digs it
makes them watch him dig it while they you know,
eat crackers or whatever. Sometimes he'll bring them really nice food,
like he one day brings them just a huge Chinese
food meal and champagne. So it's just like or it's
just or nothing, you know, totally mind fucking them. So

(47:54):
Sandra gets caught trying to move the plywood off, and
so Gary hangs her by the rich and like one
handcuff from the ceiling pipe. Dude. He leaves her there
for a couple of days. So the other girls are like,
she's getting sick. There's something wrong with her. You have
to take her down, and he's like, no, she's faking.

(48:16):
I'm not going to fall for it. He's of course
getting increasingly paranoid. He believes they're all plotting against him
at all times. He's constantly ready for them to try
to attack him. And he did this is super super
fucked up. He would do this thing where he would
when he thought that there was a chance that they
were plotting against him, he would shame them up, and

(48:36):
then he would try to shove a screwdriver in their
ears because he thought if they were deaf, that they
couldn't plan anything against them. Oh, no, should we take
a quick break. I can sing some songs from Oliver
if you want me to. I was in it when

(48:59):
I was ten. Do you know the words to the.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Franklin musical that you don't? I do?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah, sing a little Franklin for us. I know I'm
frank When the only black boy in this whole damn town.
What the fuck is going on? Is this northern California? Okay?
Gary believes that Sandra is pregnant, and that's why that's

(49:31):
why he is. I don't know. She gets sickly, she's lethargic,
she is a fever. She starts throwing up. He says,
the only reason she's throwing up is because she's pregnant.
Eventually she loses consciousness. When he comes back, the girls
are like, you have to let her down, And he
lets her down and she just drops to the ground

(49:52):
and he kicks her into the pit. And so when
she gets when he kicks her into the pit, all
the other girls realize now she's dead.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
No, yeah, this is so horrifying.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
It's really bad. Right yeah, now that's the point, right.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, okay, no, no, no, nobody's surprised, except for the
one person who was like, my friend can't come.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Do you want to come? I've never heard of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I'll come.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Also, my like little cousin is here.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah, and the rest of my family is like really nice,
normal people, and she's never heard the podcast, and she's
going to be like, mom, George's cousin, there's something wrong
with Georgia.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Do you think she's gonna tell on you? She can
rap you out.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yeah, my friend Molly's here and she brought her mom.
Oh my god, having no, she had no idea what
was going on, so her baby so sorry.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Oh you know what I once did call uh, Jillian's
mom when she was in high school, and I was like,
she's got some slutty pictures up on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
You should saying did you get back at me?

Speaker 2 (50:52):
That's right, she's gonna fucking sorry Jillian, that was me.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
But you're too young.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah her cleave, I like that you narked her out
for that?

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, save it.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
For college.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, turn the page.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Sorry, no, no, I'm interrupting, Please don't be. I think
we needed it. So basically he takes the body upstairs
and I mean, can we just can it get worse? Yes?
It can. The girls are don't all down in the
pit together, and then they hear a power song.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Oh, she didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
So in the next couple of days, they start to
smell a terrible smell. Of course, not just them down
in the basement, but the whole fucking neighborhood, and so
the neighbors end up calling the police, and when a
patrolman goes by the house nothing, he says, oh, I
just burned a roast, And the Patrolman's like, well, high five, buddy,

(52:04):
I'll talk to you later and he leaves. Yep, So
the paranoid is getting worse. Deborah Dudley is continuing to
defy him. So now he goes into a whole new
level where he's starting to because they're all wearing chains
and the chains are connected to each other. So he

(52:25):
strips an extension cord, he strips off the insulation and
starts electrocuting the chains. Yeah, it gets really bad, and
when the next time Debora Dudley defies him, he takes
her upstairs, and when she comes back down, she's scared

(52:46):
out of her mind, and the girls finally get her
to say what is going on? And he took her
up into the kitchen and then he took a lid
off the pot and she looked inside, and Sandra's head
was inside. Oh no, yes, we're doing this. Stay with me,
Do not fucking leave me. At this point, we all

(53:06):
agreed that we were doing this. God damn it. All right,
So eventually, basically Debora Dudley loses her shit and is
like what the fuck you know whatever, and so he
gets so mad at her because she's fighting him so hard.
He puts her in the pit and he puts water
in it and then electrocutes her and he ends up

(53:27):
killing her in that pit. Okay, So now Josephina, who
this whole time has been trying to make a plan,
she keeps she the whole time. She's like, Okay, I'm
going to stay on this guy's good side. So when
it would be the thing of like you get the
stick and you have to beat the girls, she would
play along with him just enough so that he would
believe her because she was like, I have to win

(53:48):
his trust. That's the only way I'm going to get
out of here, and anyone's going to get out of
here because this guy's fucking out of his mind. So
she's trying to play him like the entire time that way.
So once he kills the second girl, Deborah, she's like, okay,
like I have to you know, I have to really
do something. So she's really trying to like pretend that,

(54:09):
you know, like play the wife part, really kisses ass,
really like really act like she hates the girls and
wants to do anything against them for him. So finally
she uh, once Debbie dies, he makes just a phenis
sign of paper that says I killed Debbie. I'm responsible

(54:31):
for her death. It makes her sign it, and then
once she signs that, he believes that he has her
completely under control because if she goes to the police,
she's the one that's going to get arrested for that crime.
Come So she's like, sounds good to me. Yeah, what
a great plan, Gary, super smart. I bet that's what's
gonna happen. So she signs up paper and then on

(54:55):
March twenty fourth, she convinces him to let her leave
and visit her family, and in return for doing that,
she promises that she'll bring him back a new girl.
Who yeah, and so he's like, that sounds great. Plus
I have the paper you signed, so this is this
is a lock. Everything's awesome. He drops her off at

(55:16):
her apartment and says, I'll wait for you at the
gas station. She runs up into her apartment. Her boyfriend's
sitting there. She's been missing for four fucking months months months.
She runs in, she's screaming. She's like, I bet you.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Changed up in a basement, this fucking lunatic or whatever.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
And the boyfriend's like, you're crazy. Are you on drugs?
Got out? Swear to god, Swear to god. She couldn't
look like like, no, she probably didn't look great. But
she ends up showing him all of her scars and
her where that like the huge wounds where the chains
have been, and he's like, oh shit.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
So she broke up with him after what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Or maybe their love got even deeper and stronger, and
he was like, I'll never doubt you again. Baby.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
There.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
We don't know. What we do know is that he
called the cops. When the cops show up. They're like
you're crazy and yelling, and then she's like, how about
you take a look at these huge gouge marks everywhere
on my body? And then they were like holy shit. And
so they go to the gas station. Garret's just chilling
out in his Cadillac waiting for his lady to come back,

(56:26):
and they arrest him, and then two officers go to
the house. Yeah, so of course they can't get into
the magical front door. That did work. He was right
about that.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Oh my god. I mean it's kind of a great idea.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
It's pretty I ever thought about before.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Fuck. Although, I mean, someone could just take the half key, yeah,
but they'd have to get it off of him first.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah, I mean, just punch him in the face.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Eric, we'll talk about that later.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
So just before five a, I'm on March twenty seventh,
nineteen eighty seven, the police arrive at Gary's house. They
break down that front door and they go down into
the basement, just like Josephinas said they need it to.
And down in the basement they find Jacqueline Askins. They
find Lisa Thomas. They're both naked and chained to the

(57:20):
ceiling pipe. They free them and then Lisa points to
the plywood and oh, sorry, there was an skipped apart.
He had gotten another girl, another sex worker named Agnes.
Agnes was in the pit, so they pulled the plywood
off and she was down in the water in the pit.
Then they go into the kitchen.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Uh uh, stay out of the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Yeah, I mean no, they gotta go. That's the thing,
you gotta go in the kitchen. Now, in the kitchen,
they find what looks like human ribs in the oven,
and when they open the freezer they find a human forearm.
What yes, So basically he's arrested. He is tried and

(58:03):
convicted on eighteen charges. Two counts of first degree murder,
five counts of rape, six counts of kidnapping, four counts
of aggravated assault. He tried to claim that Josephina was
his accomplice, and this amazing judge I believe her name
was Judge Abraham, when he tried to argue that you

(58:25):
have to read about this story. His defense lawyer is
such a scumbag, like everything he says is the grossest
thing you've ever read. And so one of his attempts
at a defense was that it was Josephina's idea and
that he had tried Josephina was his accomplice. And the
judge was like, because he was trying to plead insanity,

(58:46):
not guilty by the reason of insanity. And the judge
was like, well, then if you were smart enough to
get an accomplice, you're not insane. And then they're like,
oh no, no, then she's not. Okay, get that cancel,
that cancel, that's to cancel.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
So yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
So insane. Oh and then this is so the the
final blow against the defense and by the prosecution. It's
just so amazing is they call Robert Kirkpatrick to the
stand and that's Gary Heidnick's broker at Merrill Lynch.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
What h his sockbroker?

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Yep. And they.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Get that sock broker on the stand and.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
That guy says, he testifies that Gary was an astute
investor who knew exactly what he was doing. So there
goes the insanity defense.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
He gets convicted, he's sentenced to death, and on July sixth,
nineteen ninety nine, he's executed by lethal injection.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
And I mean, I kind.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Of like this. No one came to claim the body no,
they're like, no, thanks. And if any of that sounded
familiar to you, Gary Heidnick's crimes and the basement scene was.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
The inspiration for Buffalo Bill.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
In Silence of the Land. Yay, that's where that, that's
where that came from.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
And I just gave myself chills.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
That was weird. Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
As soon as you were like basement pit, loud music,
fucking mister, I got your dog, I'd fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Me the whole nine yards. Catherine Martin, you're safe. Remember,
let's walk.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
That are we?

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
This isn't proper, it's not it's not right anything we're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
So that's the story of Gary Heidnik Philadelphia. That's your guy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Excellent, excellent, so awful, so awful, so bad, horrible, disgusting.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Well, now that's my turn. I'm gonna put my shoes
back on, of course, because I just feel creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
So, oh you need some shoes?

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Feel creepy?

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Do you feel like do your your feet feel hot?
With the eyes on your feet?

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Well, just knowing that these could easily go on Wiki
feet with these.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Where there already are photos on my feet? No, what
yep do you guys know about wiki feet. You know
how if you put you put.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Like an actor and actress that's usually just an actress
an actress's name into Google it. If you put the
name in, you like, one of the things that will
come up underneath it is that person's name. So it's
like Deborah Messing. One of the first things that will
come up underneath is the suggestion is Debora Messing feet?
Oh no, I didn't know that there's so many foot
fetishists out there. Well, there's a Wikipedia for feet and

(01:01:46):
like any if like Debora Messing was at the beach,
it'll just be like a close up of the photo
of her feet and then they grade them and like
they comment on them and like great toes, like or
she needs a manicure, but otherwise I like her arch
my bucky kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Wow, So check that out when you get home.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I better stay covered up for the rest of my
life because I have Fred Flintstone feet. Like you would
not believe.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
I'm dying to look you up on that right now,
let's get it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Up on the It simply cannot be.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
All right, well, my murder, there's only one person who
gets murdered, So a little more.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Lighthearted, okay, nice. We'll end on a note.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Glad we're ending on this one. Uh all right. This
is the story of.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
The only known case of homicide committed by an Amish man,
Edward gender Rich.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
We'd say that second part again, Edward Gingrich.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Oh, Edward Jewish Gingrich? Got it Gingrich? And he's not Jewish, Okay,
he's Amish Amish, he's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
An Amish man.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
So picture an Amish guy, Okay, kind of hot.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Just saying it's kind of a Vigo Mortensen in witness situation.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Yeah. Did you see me pause up.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Here because I was like, you shouldn't say that, then
said it any is got to okay. He is born
on August eighteenth, nineteen sixty three, in an Amish family
from Rockdale Township, Crawford County, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
He was said to have.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Been somewhat of a rebel in the Amish way of
life from an early age, which he chewed gum. I
don't know what's a rebel. He kicked as a rock
one time. Yeah, he didn't ork for three hours one day.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
He put brown sugar on his oat mail.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Whoa Edward is? Frock and roll?

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
God, I'm so into Edward. He wears his hat at askew.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
His family reasoned that and he was so he was
a rebel who was kind of crazy, like you know, wild,
and his family was like, well, if we get an
unwaveringly faithful woman to marry him, she'll be a good influence.
And so they married him off December second, nineteen eighty six.
He's married to an Amish woman named Katie, and people

(01:04:13):
in their community are like, Katie, don't do that. They
were like a bunch of people were like, I don't
fucking believe in this, huh, which is like you have
to get married.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
And they were still like because they thought he was
a greed. I think that they were worried. Yes, they
were apprehensive. That's not my word. I don't say that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
They had three kids, Danny, Enos and Mary, and he
was starting to show signs of behavioral changes after the marriage,
and they became more and more noticeable. By July of
eighty eight, he lost a ton of weight, became super depressed,
and he spent a lot of time in the wood shop,
and he got more and more interested in the machinery

(01:04:55):
of the Amish people, but also with interacting with non
Amish people. Everyone's known as the English.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Did you know that?

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
No, Like, everyone here is the English unless you're Amish.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Oh my god, is there's someone.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
They're like, my first day of Rumspringer, I'm gonna go
to a murder podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Someone. There's like a group of kids that are having
the most awesome RUMs breed right now. They're just wugging
like we're going to go from a barn to a
murder podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
And they were like, shit, she's reading her only home
too an murder Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Oh, that's the one I was gonna do.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
H Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
So, while he was working in the wood shop meeting
English people, he befriended a non Amish man named David Lindsay,
who told him that unless he renounced his Amish faith
and became a born again Christian, which he was, he
would go to hell.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
I dated one of those, now, uh, I swear to
God that he was like in car college, the first
guy dated trick to me, he was we called him
the secret born again Christian because he was in the
theater department and he never talked about religion at all
until he and I started dating. Dating, and he was like, Karen,
I just need you to say these seven words. I

(01:06:16):
was like, I'm already Catholic, Like I think Jesus has
got his eye on me. I don't need your bullshit.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Wow yeah, did you dump him?

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
He don't me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Man, I would have made it my mission to corrupt
him and then be like okay, but bye.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
I wish I could have.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
I was like, huh what the Lord? Who do do? Do? Okay? Christian?
Then oh?

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
And also that he would go to Helen then he was,
and that led him to believe he was being confined
and held captive by his wife Katie. So Edward's mental
state it continues to deteriorate. He begins hallucinating and has
a psychotic break that scared his entire community, but seriously
starts ripping his hair out, claiming that's it's on fire.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
It's hair, his hair, That's what's happening with my hair?

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
Oh, we all forgot to mention your hair is on fire.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Why wouldn't you tell me? It's just a very small,
smoldering fire.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
It didn't look that bad. We let it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
I mean, it's kind of cute and we thought it
was your look. That's the new look smothering fire.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Sorry, hair fires.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Okay, So Katie found her husband in their bedroom spitting
at the ceiling and mumbling to himself, and she.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Was like, sorry, isn't spitting at the ceiling spitting at yourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
That is a good That is a good point. Unless
he was really good at spitting.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Yeah, unless you get staying out the side.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
No, no, still don't work okay, and that at that
point she was like, that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Can't you couldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
That was the limit and limit. She's like, pull your hair,
nuts on fire, you're the devil. Yes, spinning on the
fucking see it out. And then they do this thing
that almost people don't fucking do. She's like, call nine
one one. This is wow. She's like, I can't get this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
How do they do that? They send a cow out
into the street or something, says call nine one one
on it. They light a candle, put it on a
cow's back, push it into the road, send the nine
one one cow. Listener's fucked. We are screwed.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
I would say that we're gonna get a lot of
mean emails, but no one's listening down.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
I can't say shit to us.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Oh wow, this is I feel free, Like for the
first time on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
It feels so free, talk shit on whoever I want. Stephen,
don't cut this, Stephen, leave it in and turn it
up loud.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
The nine messhed people it was a big deal. Okay,
so uh he So he's also.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Eventually, uh So. Edward gets treated as a psychiatric hospital
in Jamestown, New York, where he's diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic,
and he's given medication, of course, and it started to
help his hallucinations. But when he got home, he was like,
this is putting me in a zombie state.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
And he didn't like it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
So he did what everyone does at some point in
their medication therapy, is he's like, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
Quit Yeah, you know, yep, don't do that. But I mean,
if you want to get off, like just just don't quit.
We're both doctors.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
We should have said that at the beginning of this
Oh my God podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
We should have said it medical doctors.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
But his wife was encouraging him to stop as well,
because she was a traditional Amish person and she, you know, wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
She just wanted things to be better.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Yeah, yeah, she okay, but his state of mind continued
to decrease. He started saying he was the Devil, and
then on Marching nineteen thirty three, Katie.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
And edwarder what did I say thirty three? Nope, but
it went back in time in the Amish time machine,
which is a pile of hay.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
It isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Dive head first. That isn't right, and that's not what
I wrote. Oh it's nineteen ninety three, right, okay. So
Edward and Katie are having an argument and she starts
getting worried about it and his temper, and she sends
their six year old son to run and get help,

(01:10:56):
but the two younger kids stay behind at that point. Uh,
he runs and gets his uncle. His uncle goes back
to the house, and by then Katie was long dead.
It started that he punched Katie in the face, knocking
her to the ground.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
Then he beat her to death.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Oh my god, sorry he had with his boots. He
stomped on her skull until it was left unrecognizable. And
then it gets worse. Oh, he removed so she's dead.
He removes all her internal organs. Oh shit, places them

(01:11:40):
in a neat pile. How Karen's gone bullshit on?

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
This?

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
No fucking way show me a neat pile of large intestines.
I'll give you twenty five dollars. That's bullshit. I'm sorry, no,
love it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
No, I'm glad that you said that, okay, because I
hadn't thought of it. And as soon as she said
it was like, oh yeah, oh no, someone just say
that to make it seem even worse. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
So and he did all this while his two young
children were in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
No, no, uh.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
And then he said for.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Some reason later that for some reason he thought they
could save her. So he was like trying to keep
her organs to like in a clean pile, to like
save her later.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
So he was just totally psychotic break, not in the
real world in anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
So they run and call nine one one, and they
found the Ampties arrived and found a scene so horrific
that one of the Ampties immediate left to vomit. Yeah,
and Edward was gone, and so were the kids.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
But don't worry.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
They found him later that day walking in a country
road with his kids, and the kids were fine, okay.
Edward's arrested pleads insanity. The defense argues that Edward was
affected by the fumes he inhaled accidentally in the workroom
of the wood place, the woodhouse, the workroom. What do
you call it, the wood room, the woodroom, It doesn't

(01:13:19):
sound right, the work would the wood oh, the wood workroom,
the woodworking room, the woodworking room.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
There it is.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Stephen, Stephen Speed that whole part up play the holding
backwards Stephen. So they're saying like he was in an
unventilated room where they were using solvents all the time,
and he went out of his mind because of that.
But it sounded like a lot of stuff was saying
that before that. He was, you know, it was almost

(01:13:48):
to the gum. It's the perfect the perfect storm. Yeah,
there was already stuff happening, right. Okay, So the Amish
community shuns him at this point, which is like the
severest sin is string from the Amish ways without repenting.
So he's punished with excommunication, which is like fucking huge.
While in prison, Edward says he starts following a new

(01:14:08):
religion and signs a document saying he's an evangelical Christian.

Speaker 3 (01:14:13):
So maybe he met your ex wifeend.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
Yeah, he's probably good friends with him. So Okay, my
dumb one week college boyfriend pops up from the side.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
I just need you to say seven words Edward.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Uh, I don't know where. Oh he's tried. He sound
guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but mentally ill quote, and he's
sentenced to a term of two to five and a
half years. Was this Amish court, which means he is

(01:14:52):
eligible for parole by a nineteen ninety five. He's denied
his first bid, but he is granted his second.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
So sorry, because it was not guilty by reason of insanity,
then he only has to Okay, Yeah, but they don't
put him in a mental hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
They put him in a state correctional institute. Okay, So
I don't know, it doesn't sound like maybe there's a
mentally ill a ward.

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
Maybe let's pretend.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
So after five years in ninety eight, he gets released.
He's thirty four, he's released. And after that, of course,
yeahan mentally health Okay. He moves into a mental health
facility in Michigan. And he also lived in Indiana before
returning to the Brown Hill Amish community in February two
thousand and seven. And then then they put him in

(01:15:40):
like a thing for mentally ill Amish people. I guess
there's like a one room somewhere with all the it's
probably kind of fun.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
Oh no, no, no, no, they killed people. Sorry, he killed people.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
It's hard not to just try to imagine things about
Amish people. It's mysterious and there's lots of barns.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Yeah. Interesting, And it's hard on a podcast not to
say the first thing that pops into your line and
then regret it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
Right, it's kind of what we do. Yeah, it's kind
of our jam.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
You just roll the dice and help you you don't
say anything stupid, but it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
So it's it's quiet, like when people are like, oh,
I don't want to tell her she's saying exactly what
she does.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
No, Like I just want to adding stupid, and we're like, uh, you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Listen to the book.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
You don't know where Delaware is. We all know, Oh
they're right over there.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
You don't know the twenty five percent and a quarter
are the same thing. Hey, we live, we learn, just
like Alanis Morris had said.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
One time, Okay, so he'd been out of prison for
eighteen years and he's living on his attorney's property in
Cambridge Springs, Pennsylvania, which.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Is like, oh, it's so like sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Yeah, kind of you know, even though, Like the attorney
was like, oh, I know he killed her, but he's
nowhere to go.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
He's mentally ill.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
So he's living there for about a year when at
forty four years old, he goes out to the to
the horse barn and in the morning and his husband
and wife, attorney are like, where is he?

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
And the wife goes finds him. He hung himself.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Yeah, yeah, I know, it's wow.

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
He had written.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
The only suicide note he left was a message on
top of a dust in dust on top of a
bucket that read forgive me please.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
That's so almish.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
He's like, I can't use a pencil, papper.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
So I have to write on a bucket. That's part
of the rules.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Fuck. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
And so the attorney said his community completely deserted him.
They shunned him, they kept him from rejoining his family,
which I guess the family, his immediate family did want
to like take care of him and take him back,
and they wouldn't le him. The wouldn't let him take
him back. He was an awfully good person and he
could have helped his community a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
I don't know about that one.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Hey, I mean, here's the thing. Listen, look, it's a
lot to learn. Listen, look and listen.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Despite all that, he was allowed to be buried in
Amish cemetery with an Amish.

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):
Headstone, cemetery, no celebration.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
What are they called funerals?

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Yeah, but like the organ, you know, the you know
what I mean? No, I don't, okay, like an Amish burial.
Like they said, the prayers are their prayers, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
I guess not what they're guessing.

Speaker 3 (01:18:56):
Oh, it's called that butter churn.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
And the journey said that that's all he would have wanted.
So it was the only as far as I could tell,
at least of the time, it was the only known
case of a homicide committed by an Amish man.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
I bet there's other ones and they just won't tell
us about it. There enough, right, Yeah, that was amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
I was Edward Gingerich, you guy it, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
There's the lights come up and there's just a row
of hats in the back. Oh my god, we heard
what you said about all. I don't know what's the accent?
That was weird? My god, it's not the accent.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
And it's called a ceremony Georgia.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Oh, someone did, yell, Seramon, that's what I met ceremony celebration.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
You had ce right.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
I did. I shouldn't keep drinking this coffee?

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
Do it? Chug it, chug it, chug it? Oh cold?
Do we have time for a I think we did.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
We cannot.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
To the one mom out here.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
This is when we ask one of your, one of
your fellow audience members to come up and tell us
their hometown murder.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
Now, I let you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
You're amish. We'd love to see you, that's for sure.
I think, Wow, it goes back so far. There's so
many empty seats. Let's get that arm in the back
on the right where Yeah, and there's somebody holding guy warms. Wait,

(01:20:38):
oh the lady with the shoes.

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Okay, do you ever I mean you see two empty seats?

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Do you ever think? Oh what did they fight about?
Other way here and turn around.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
I want you to want to do the dishes.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
We're going at home.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
Man, they had a big fight. Yep, that's so like intense.
Dear Karen and Georgia, we broke up on the way.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
I hope you're happy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Okay, Vince is gonna come get you. Oh, I'm sorry.
I didn't even tell you anything about it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
I don't know. There's two people. Uh oh, I think
you can both.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
Oh my god, what if you both fistfight right now?
Last man standing or a woman?

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
I be yes, you look crazy, So go this like
young young lady.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
Yeah, you have to walk down that way and you
have to slide your butt across people's laps. Do it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
This was a case of random gesturing into the audience
gone wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
That's right, not right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
It's very hard to be accurate in some situations.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Can we get the lights down or they're going to
freak out when? Oh, we don't want to look at
It's real scary to see all of you, especially you
up there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
You guys.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Are you guys the scariest of all guys? What the bull?
What's your name?

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
Andrew? What are you doing on stage?

Speaker 4 (01:21:55):
Hick?

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Was that the sound guy?

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
What was that? There's just some dude wandering around back there?

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
Yes, it was the sound Hi. What's your name, Bob?
Don't be mad at.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
Me, Bob, Bob, Bob?

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Thank you? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
Girl? First girls?

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
First girls? First? Do you stand back there?

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
True?

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
Oh? It is really great?

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
And that's your name.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
My name is Alana. I'm here with my friend Elena
and we.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Actually that's nice.

Speaker 4 (01:22:32):
Same friends because of this show, like the probably the
second time we talked to each other, we told each
other that we like the show and bought tkets.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
So we are lovely, very nice to be up here.
I'm shaking a little bit. Sorry. I actually took my
shoes off to.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
Like, wait, they're kind of wonky right now, you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Have to slide them back on the realcast, Justina, you
don't seem nervous, so don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
Yeah, good, I see the shake.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Yeah, you gotta seem well. Look me too though.

Speaker 4 (01:23:02):
So my hometown, Murner is all.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
It's like a mixture.

Speaker 4 (01:23:06):
Between a I survived yeah and murder.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Yeah, it's good, it's good.

Speaker 4 (01:23:13):
It's one of the fames. Those are opposites, I'll trust you.
So I'm from Delaware. Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
Born and raised.

Speaker 4 (01:23:24):
I grew up in Newark, live in Wilmington. Now, so
all right, thank you, thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
You're nervous, fake anxious.

Speaker 4 (01:23:35):
I work in politics, so I'm awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
We yeah, murder politicians.

Speaker 4 (01:23:43):
So I grew up in a very suburban neighborhood in Newark, Delaware.
University of Delaware.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
Stop naming cities and tell me stories.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
I like it. It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
So we've done another story to hear.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
Sorry, it's not that long. So there was so the
neighborhood that I grew up in, very nice neighborhood, like
nothing happened, kind of just like a sleepy neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
We like played all.

Speaker 4 (01:24:13):
The time outside and all that kind of shit. So
one day there was this woman in like the front
of the neighborhood, so like you could see the house
from the main road that was that would go by.
So she was like out tending to her rose garden.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
That's important.

Speaker 4 (01:24:32):
And so she's like sitting there and I guess somebody
drove by and he worked at the local Chrysler plant,
which went out of business, which was a big deal
for Nore, and he saw what he liked and he
was like, oh, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna go check
that out. Yes, he liked the roses, and who doesn't, right,

(01:24:53):
So he I wish I could show you a picture,
but it's fine, he your words, use your pain. So
he drove to the front of the house, which was
kind of like the side of the house because of
the way that the neighborhood was set up, and he

(01:25:14):
like nobody knows. There was like a bus stop right there,
like it was a beautiful day. Everybody was out and
nobody saw him. And he went into the house because
nobody locked their doors. It was the nineties. I was
probably ninety eight. I think I was four. So he
went into the house and he waited for her to commit,

(01:25:39):
but she didn't come in. First, her husband came in
and he shot him and who shot who?

Speaker 3 (01:25:45):
Wait? Who shot who?

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:25:46):
The bad guy shot the coug Yeah, why would the
husband she was.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
The bad guy would that?

Speaker 4 (01:25:53):
That's like not even murder, that's like defense, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
Just say so.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Ala Alima.

Speaker 4 (01:26:05):
So I guess the woman's name is Debbie.

Speaker 3 (01:26:08):
So Debbie didn't hear.

Speaker 4 (01:26:10):
The gunshot, I guess. So after she was done tending
to her roses, she came in the house and there
was this man standing there and he fucking kidnapped her,
put her in the back of his car and drove
her to his house like five miles away and tied
her up and just like repeatedly raped her over the
course of several days.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
And she was it was your story.

Speaker 4 (01:26:35):
She like befriended him and like made her trust him
and was like, he would like go to work for
the day while this woman is just like tied up
in his house because he's fucking horrible, and then he
would just come home and rape her. So one day
before he went to work, she was like, you know what,
these ropes are like really hurting my wrists. Do you

(01:26:58):
think you could loosen them or something? So we loosened
him because he trusted her, and she managed to like
get out of the room that she was in. Because
he was not as smart as Gary, he did not
keep her in the basement with chains. So she managed
to call nine one one and like, I mean, they
came and got her and everything was fine.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
She lived.

Speaker 4 (01:27:20):
So there was the I survived, yes, But the best
part of the story is that, well, actually there are
two really good parts. My parents were in New Orleans
at the time, and this was like national news, like
people were talking about the neighborhood I grew up and
was called Academy Hill, and so they were calling it
Academy Kill or Murder Hill and in New Orleans, and
my parents are like, holy fucking shit, I'd fucking lived there.

(01:27:43):
So my grandparents had come to take care of us,
and I distinctly remember riding my tricycle like towards the
house and my grandmother chasing after me because like at
that point they still hadn't found the woman, and like
she's like, they're fucking cops everywhere. Yeah, So that was
one good part. Another part is, like probably six years

(01:28:04):
ago I was watching I Survived. It was the first
time I ever watched it, and they like in that show,
they kind of show you like a nice little clip
rather than and it's like it's nice. It's like a
breeze flowing right, so it's not cheesy or anything. And
so they show this clip of these rose bushes in
front of the house, and I was like, why does

(01:28:27):
that look so fucking familiar? And like the neighborhood I
lived in, there were only like three different houses, and
they just like made a billion of them. So, like I,
it ended up being Debbie and it was really fucking creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
But she has an episode of I Survived.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
She has an episode if I've Survived, and it's really good.
I don't remember which one it is, has been forever since.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
I've watched it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
Probably should have watched.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
It before I did this, but I did not think
this was gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
You did good.

Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
Thanks much, feel really good.

Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
Well done.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Nice to meet you too, Thanks for being here. God
and take that mic from her. Think all right, you
come over, thank your all ticket. I have to give
it to Bob.

Speaker 3 (01:29:07):
Yeah, you get in here with Andrew.

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
Yeah, Hi, thank you for being here.

Speaker 4 (01:29:14):
So surreal right now, you have to You guys are
real people.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
I know it's not weird.

Speaker 4 (01:29:20):
To go.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
They're all watching them.

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
Oh man, So we have many songs from Franklin.

Speaker 7 (01:29:29):
You know, it's funny. I had never heard of Hamilton,
and I'm a teacher, so all the other teachers you
never heard of Hamilton.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
But you know now right, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Before we start, I just want to know that the
audience is going to vote on the best story, and
that at the person it's going to get the person
who gets murdered.

Speaker 3 (01:29:44):
Right, Oh good, idea, that's my story is horrible? Oh good? Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:29:50):
My story is actually about a coworker that had at
one of my first jobs. So uh, of course a
lot of you guys know in here the most wonderful
place in the world, Chris Smith's tree shop.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
What is it?

Speaker 7 (01:30:04):
I'm from Connecticut, and they have a store called Christmas Chair.
They have a storre called Christmas Tree Shop, and it
just sells like all the bullshit that you can't find
anywhere else around. If you want like a flamingo made
out of old tin cans, it's like painted all nice
by like Chinese sleeves I want.

Speaker 3 (01:30:22):
Yeah, exactly, totally.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Yeah. It's right next.

Speaker 7 (01:30:25):
To the dog food and right next to the gummy
bears and right next like crazy shit.

Speaker 4 (01:30:29):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
So wait, why do they call it Christmas Tree Shop
because it's.

Speaker 7 (01:30:32):
Like a bunch of just random stuff. They don't sell
Christmas trees. They don't sell anything.

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
Okay, they need to get their stories straight.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Exactly. It's really weird.

Speaker 7 (01:30:40):
So there was a guy in the stock room named
Zachary Lapalooza and I've been to his music.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
Yes, sorry, sorry, I'm very sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
You grabbed it. It was there and you grabbed it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:30:54):
Oh it was when I was like thirteen or fourteen.
Actually know, I had to be like sixteen. I was
working on so I was like I was around sixteen
and he's to do stock room. He was like twenty
six twenty eight. He had like a bowl cut that
made his head look exactly like a penis who exactly
how how like it was just like if he had
if he had, like his haircut was just like it

(01:31:19):
could be like perfectly, like as though he.

Speaker 1 (01:31:22):
Had a penis bowl that they kept you know.

Speaker 4 (01:31:25):
What I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Yeah, I looked like it was.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
It was bad. It was bad.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:31:30):
But he was a really quiet guy, really like mild
man or whatever. Every time I used to come in,
he used to be the one to open the door
in the back.

Speaker 3 (01:31:36):
So I used to walk in by it.

Speaker 7 (01:31:37):
What's up, zagon like go to work whatever. But we
had another manager named I think her name was Sean
Treece or something like that, really bit.

Speaker 3 (01:31:44):
Bitchy kind of lady.

Speaker 7 (01:31:44):
Sorry, yeah, really kind of bitchy lady. But apparently they
had had some kind of problem where he fell off
a ladder, did something or other. She said that it
was his fall, so he didn't get Workmen's.

Speaker 3 (01:31:56):
Company, he got fire.

Speaker 4 (01:31:57):
Ooh, he flipped a shit, came in the next.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
Day, was like, where the fucking shit?

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
A guy that I had.

Speaker 7 (01:32:05):
Never known to be like angry. He was really quiet.
He just came and freaking out.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
You were there? No? I was not, Yeah, no, no.

Speaker 7 (01:32:11):
By this time I had gotten fired for coming back
later on my brain.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
But Christmas Tree stores in ten exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:32:17):
So I had found out later on that he freaked
out whatever whatever, they had sent h on trees to
work at the Christmas tree shop in Rhode Island. It's like,
all the way I cross state lines he found out
that she was there. Yeah, got a big fucking kitchen
knife or something. Drove all the way from Connecticut to
Rhode Island across state lines.

Speaker 1 (01:32:39):
How far is that?

Speaker 3 (01:32:40):
That's like pretty far? How many?

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
Like an hour?

Speaker 7 (01:32:43):
I'm horrible with maps, And so an hour you guys
were talking about where Delaware was, and I was.

Speaker 3 (01:32:48):
Like, yeah, I see too, I see too. Two hours, Yeah,
it's like, I mean pretty far, okay.

Speaker 7 (01:32:55):
And so he drove across state lines, found out that
she was working at this Christmas tree shop out front,
waited for her to leave for the night, drove back
to her house, and then killed her in the house,
stabbed her some like seventy eight times.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Whoa wow.

Speaker 7 (01:33:10):
At first it was like forty five times, and he
was like, put her in the car, drove away with her. Yeah,
So he drove away with her in the car. Then
apparently he was like oh, forty five was not enough.
He got out of the car, stabbed her another like
thirty times, yeah, and then took her body, threw it
in like a ravine somewhere, and threw a toilet on
top of her.

Speaker 3 (01:33:31):
Yeah, Zach, right, like fucking Zach, Yeah, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:33:34):
Yeah, and so yeah that was he stabbed her seventy times,
threw her and whatever. They found her like a week
and a half later. Yeah, and he had no idea
who it was. But then they had blood evidence that
she like trying to fight him or something. Found blood
evidence underneath her nails. Yeah, yeah, and realized that he
was the whe who got fired in Connecticut, tied all
back together and went and found him. So now he's

(01:33:55):
doing life in Rhoe Island.

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
Wow, that was amazing. That was a good one. You
think you kind of know someone Christmas tree shot you
know what you see that bull cut you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Just walk the other way every time?

Speaker 3 (01:34:13):
A right? All right, thank you, thank you Andrew.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
That was awesome. Thank you so much, Thank you for right,
Thank you so much, thanks for being here.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
Thanks you guys, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
That was so cool. You Yeah, I leave that for
that was our last hometown of this Yeah, best friends,
best friends, brand new best friends.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
They'll be signing autographs in the lobby after this.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
You guys, Okay, we've had the best time on this tour.
It has been so cool to be here with you
in real life and see that the bullshit we do
in George's apartment actually matters to seemingly a ship ton
of people.

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
It's such a huge apple man, it really is, like.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
And every single fucking person we've met on this tour
has been cool and someone we would be friends with
and hang out with, and it's so fucking nice and
awesome and we feel so lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
Yeah, we so.

Speaker 3 (01:35:16):
We talk about it all the time. Yeah, you're crying.
We talk about all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Though.

Speaker 3 (01:35:21):
They're just like, we keep saying that, devents, We're like,
can we just.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
Keep doing this? We want to do this for a living.
How could you not want to do this for fucking
a living. So thank you for you guys being here
buying tickets, supporting us is the reason we can even
do it. Thank you so much, Philadelphia so much. You
are an amazing crowd. Stay sexy, bye you guys. Thank

(01:35:50):
you