Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ingramon fifty five care see the talk station Ay forty
five at fifty about krc DE talk station. I love
it when the doctor's from OHC or in studio to
talk about all the advancements they are making in cancer
therapy and treatments, and it's always a really positive discussion
in spite of the fact that we're talking about something
(00:20):
that absolutely sucks cancer. It's one thing that everybody, regardless
of political stripe, can agree on. And Doctor Akash but
Cursey's in the studio. He's an OHC hematologist and medical oncologist.
He deals with blood and marrow transplants and cellular therapy
and he sees patients out of the OHC Kenwood location
that's a Jewish hospital, that's where I go. He's also
(00:42):
involved with clinical trials, which's going to be talking about
today and is the principal investigator for all lymphoma clinical
trials at ohg's Cancer Research and Clinical Trials program work. Today,
we're gonna be talking a little bit about Carchi therapy,
which OHC was the first practice in the tri state
to offer. But i'll also bite therapy. UH Doctor mccraub,
(01:02):
H mccurgie it. It's awesome having you in studio, and
I appreciate you doing your little evaluation of me, considering
I have We were talking about my low spectrum LOMPO.
My listeners know all about it. But what's uh, what
are these treatments I just mentioned bite therapy and the
car TI. What are the treatments and how do they
work in connection with blood cancers? But I understand that
(01:25):
you're being you're evaluating them also for solid tumors, like
a new chapter in this this therapy.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you so much, Brian for having me here. Yeah,
I mean, the treatment landscape of cancer is changing so rapidly.
When I was doing my fellowship, you know, all the
frontline treatment which we had several years ago, and that
was like ten years ago, has pretty much most of
those cancers have changed by now, and the immuno therapy
(01:55):
is making a whole lot of progress. And you know,
back in the old days, the treat paradigm for cancer
used to be a conventional surgery, radiation treatment, and chemo.
But now we have more understanding of the cancer genomics
and how it intertwined with the immune system, and our
(02:15):
immune system actually plays a very important role in keeping
the cancer in check and eliminating the tumor cells from
the body. So immunotherapy right now, what we have is
the BITE therapy which I'm going to talk which is
an antibody based treatment, and what it does is that
(02:36):
antibody It has two arms, with one armored binds to
the tumor cell and with the other armed binds to
the T cells which are our immune fighting cells against
the cancer, and it brings them closure together where the
immune cell can destroy the cancer cells. So those are
your BITE infusion therapy and they have been approved for
(02:56):
several hematological malignancy including alll acute lymphoblastic leukemia, a lymphoma,
as well as maloma. Recently, OC started using b therapy.
In fact, we were one of the first treatment center
in the entire state of Ohio to offer this BITE
treatment for a small cell lung cancer. So the field
(03:18):
is rapidly changing and it's making its way in several
other solid tumor As you've been explaining and I'm going
to go into a little bit more adapt about it.
With the BTE therapy is essentially you know, antibody based
infusion and those patients cred it every two or every
four weeks. Depending on the type of cancer and the
(03:38):
type of drug which you are using. The CARTI therapy
is more potent, I believe, and it's a one time
in fusion. And what essentially you do is as I said,
you know, your immune cells play an important role in
eliminating the cancer, and cancer happens in the first place
(04:01):
when your immune cells are not able to recognize the
cancer cells airs or by some mechanism, your cancer cells
are able to evade the immune response, and that allows
them to grow in an uncontrolled, abnormal and excessive fashion. Now,
what if you can harness those immune cells from a
(04:22):
patient body, which we call leukapheresis, and you can ship
off those immune cells to a GMP lab where they
could be genetically modified and armed with a T cell
receptor which goes after a particular protein expressed on the
surface of the cancer cells. You can expand those T cells,
(04:42):
the fighting cells of which we call car T cells,
and then those products. It takes them roughly around two
to four weeks to manufacture that cell product, and then
they get shipped back to us and then we give
it to the patient. Very as simple as an IV
transfusion or a blood transfer and it roughly takes around
fifteen to thirty minutes. And once those CARTI cells have
(05:06):
been infused back into the patient body, then they kind
of go into your circulation and they have that genetically
engineered receptor. The cardi receptor go right to the cancer
and it goes right to the cancer. It latches itself
to the cancer cell and it destroys the cancer cell.
So it's really fascinating how it works. And you know,
(05:26):
the car treatment itself is undergoing evolution. But just to
give you an idea and to your viewers, like you know,
back in the old days, and I'm talking before, we
had the yeskarta for diffuse large B cell lymphoma, which
is a CARDI product. Patient with relapse or fractory lymphoma,
(05:47):
once they have failed conventional line of chemotherapy, their median
survival used to be, you know, unfortunately only six months
or less. And the response rate with your conventional sal therapy,
the complete response rate was around seven percent, so it
was pretty dismal. But then with the CARTI therapy now
(06:08):
their complete response rate is pretty much sixty to seventy percent.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's an amazing overall.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Response rate of eighty percent and you can pretty much
cure forty to fifty percent of those patients.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So yeah, it's been it's been great. And you know,
we have had similar success with relapsed refractory maloma as
well as certain leukemia, and now we are slowly, you know,
figuring out way to beat solid cancer as well. And
in that regard, oc was one of the eleven clinical
(06:45):
trial site in the country who has been fortunate enough
to use CARTI cells against her too positive solid tumor.
So there are certain solid tumor like brush cancer, lung cancer,
certain g I cancer clan giocarcinoma which do express this
protein called her too and you have CARTI cells which
(07:07):
goes after those HER two protein. And we just recruited
our first patient and she's undergoing through this study and
she has relapsed of fractory klanngiocarcinoma. So you know, the
field certainly looks promising. The early clinical trials certainly looks
very hopeful. So, I mean, there is a lot more
(07:29):
to come in this field, and this field is going
through constant evolution, and we are trying to make this
treatment more and more efficacious. And the beauty is just
one time infusion. And you know I used to call
it or this kind of treatment, I call them live drug.
(07:50):
That means worth you give the cells, those cells, they
stay in your system, they expand they identify the cancer cells,
they kill them off, and then they can stay there
and prevent any future relapse. So they stay there as
memory cells. So it's really beautiful and fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Now when you talk about shipping off the T cells,
and I suppose the cancer cells themselves from a patient.
Are those Is that cancer cell in that one patient
unique to that patient from a DNA structure or is
that particular type of cancer sort of generic? I'm wondering
about off the shelf. Use, what is the unique part
(08:29):
that prevents you from just going, oh here, let me
give you this particular product that's sitting here on my shelf,
versus having to have it manufactured specifically to the individual.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
That's a great question, barn And you know right now
the cart cells we are primarily using ortologous cart cells.
That means we are harnessing the immune cells from the
patient itself, right, and then we are genetically engineering it
with the receptor which works against a particular cancer type
(09:00):
and that kind of is the that kind of depends
on the protein antigen which is expressed on the surface
of the cancer cells.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay, so that's a unique component, correct.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
And now we are also we have clinical trial utilizing
allogeneic car T cells, which means you already have off
the shelf product from a healthy donor, and that product is,
you know, sitting there. As soon as you diagnose a
patient with relapse of fractrial lymphoma or maloma, you don't
(09:33):
even need to collect their cells or wait for you know,
three to four weeks to get the product back. You
can just use that off the shelf product which is
from a healthy donor, and you can give it straight
to the patient. So it you know, certainly saves you
those three four weeks weeks of wait time.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
That is amazing. And that's the I've been talking with
the OHC folks now for years. My initial cancer diagnosis
is in twenty eighteen. You guys have been on my
program since before I diagnosed with cancer. So I've been
following and you know, just with the most with the
wildest amazing the development of this car tee. And I
know that someday, maybe like next week, you'll be in
(10:12):
here talking about No, it's on the shelf right now.
We're we have we have moved past this waiting period.
All these different types of cancers can be addressed with
this basically down the road, off the shelf product. I'm
excited for that, and I cannot thank OHC enough for
being on the cutting edge doing these clinical trials because
this is where it all happens, folks. Clinical trials going
on right now at OHC. They always are. So if
(10:35):
you want to the best device I can give you,
if you get the cancer diagnosis, we can all agree
it sucks, but do what I did. Call OHC and
or get a second opinion. It's eight eight eight sixty
eight hundred eight eight eight sixty eight hundred. To learn more,
go online it's ohcare dot com. Doctor. Thank you so
(10:56):
much for what you're doing each and every day. I
really get enthused and actually extremely hopeful when I talk
to you folks. So he went the great work.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Thanks again Brian for having me here.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Good heaving pleasure, good heaven in studio A fifty six. Folks,
Like I said, listen to Todd Zenzer this morning. You
gotta hear that podcast. City of Cincinnati. I don't know
if they can ever fix it. Tim Rivers, American Glad Chronicles.
Now that hunt
Ingramon fifty five care see the talk station Ay forty
five at fifty about krc DE talk station. I love
it when the doctor's from OHC or in studio to
talk about all the advancements they are making in cancer
therapy and treatments, and it's always a really positive discussion
in spite of the fact that we're talking about something
(00:20):
that absolutely sucks cancer. It's one thing that everybody, regardless
of political stripe, can agree on. And Doctor Akash but
Cursey's in the studio. He's an OHC hematologist and medical oncologist.
He deals with blood and marrow transplants and cellular therapy
and he sees patients out of the OHC Kenwood location
that's a Jewish hospital, that's where I go. He's also
(00:42):
involved with clinical trials, which's going to be talking about
today and is the principal investigator for all lymphoma clinical
trials at ohg's Cancer Research and Clinical Trials program work. Today,
we're gonna be talking a little bit about Carchi therapy,
which OHC was the first practice in the tri state
to offer. But i'll also bite therapy. UH Doctor mccraub,
(01:02):
H mccurgie it. It's awesome having you in studio, and
I appreciate you doing your little evaluation of me, considering
I have We were talking about my low spectrum LOMPO.
My listeners know all about it. But what's uh, what
are these treatments I just mentioned bite therapy and the
car TI. What are the treatments and how do they
work in connection with blood cancers? But I understand that
(01:25):
you're being you're evaluating them also for solid tumors, like
a new chapter in this this therapy.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you so much, Brian for having me here. Yeah,
I mean, the treatment landscape of cancer is changing so rapidly.
When I was doing my fellowship, you know, all the
frontline treatment which we had several years ago, and that
was like ten years ago, has pretty much most of
those cancers have changed by now, and the immuno therapy
(01:55):
is making a whole lot of progress. And you know,
back in the old days, the treat paradigm for cancer
used to be a conventional surgery, radiation treatment, and chemo.
But now we have more understanding of the cancer genomics
and how it intertwined with the immune system, and our
(02:15):
immune system actually plays a very important role in keeping
the cancer in check and eliminating the tumor cells from
the body. So immunotherapy right now, what we have is
the BITE therapy which I'm going to talk which is
an antibody based treatment, and what it does is that
(02:36):
antibody It has two arms, with one armored binds to
the tumor cell and with the other armed binds to
the T cells which are our immune fighting cells against
the cancer, and it brings them closure together where the
immune cell can destroy the cancer cells. So those are
your BITE infusion therapy and they have been approved for
(02:56):
several hematological malignancy including alll acute lymphoblastic leukemia, a lymphoma,
as well as maloma. Recently, OC started using b therapy.
In fact, we were one of the first treatment center
in the entire state of Ohio to offer this BITE
treatment for a small cell lung cancer. So the field
(03:18):
is rapidly changing and it's making its way in several
other solid tumor As you've been explaining and I'm going
to go into a little bit more adapt about it.
With the BTE therapy is essentially you know, antibody based
infusion and those patients cred it every two or every
four weeks. Depending on the type of cancer and the
(03:38):
type of drug which you are using. The CARTI therapy
is more potent, I believe, and it's a one time
in fusion. And what essentially you do is as I said,
you know, your immune cells play an important role in
eliminating the cancer, and cancer happens in the first place
(04:01):
when your immune cells are not able to recognize the
cancer cells airs or by some mechanism, your cancer cells
are able to evade the immune response, and that allows
them to grow in an uncontrolled, abnormal and excessive fashion. Now,
what if you can harness those immune cells from a
(04:22):
patient body, which we call leukapheresis, and you can ship
off those immune cells to a GMP lab where they
could be genetically modified and armed with a T cell
receptor which goes after a particular protein expressed on the
surface of the cancer cells. You can expand those T cells,
(04:42):
the fighting cells of which we call car T cells,
and then those products. It takes them roughly around two
to four weeks to manufacture that cell product, and then
they get shipped back to us and then we give
it to the patient. Very as simple as an IV
transfusion or a blood transfer and it roughly takes around
fifteen to thirty minutes. And once those CARTI cells have
(05:06):
been infused back into the patient body, then they kind
of go into your circulation and they have that genetically
engineered receptor. The cardi receptor go right to the cancer
and it goes right to the cancer. It latches itself
to the cancer cell and it destroys the cancer cell.
So it's really fascinating how it works. And you know,
(05:26):
the car treatment itself is undergoing evolution. But just to
give you an idea and to your viewers, like you know,
back in the old days, and I'm talking before, we
had the yeskarta for diffuse large B cell lymphoma, which
is a CARDI product. Patient with relapse or fractory lymphoma,
(05:47):
once they have failed conventional line of chemotherapy, their median
survival used to be, you know, unfortunately only six months
or less. And the response rate with your conventional sal therapy,
the complete response rate was around seven percent, so it
was pretty dismal. But then with the CARTI therapy now
(06:08):
their complete response rate is pretty much sixty to seventy percent.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's an amazing overall.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Response rate of eighty percent and you can pretty much
cure forty to fifty percent of those patients.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So yeah, it's been it's been great. And you know,
we have had similar success with relapsed refractory maloma as
well as certain leukemia, and now we are slowly, you know,
figuring out way to beat solid cancer as well. And
in that regard, oc was one of the eleven clinical
(06:45):
trial site in the country who has been fortunate enough
to use CARTI cells against her too positive solid tumor.
So there are certain solid tumor like brush cancer, lung cancer,
certain g I cancer clan giocarcinoma which do express this
protein called her too and you have CARTI cells which
(07:07):
goes after those HER two protein. And we just recruited
our first patient and she's undergoing through this study and
she has relapsed of fractory klanngiocarcinoma. So you know, the
field certainly looks promising. The early clinical trials certainly looks
very hopeful. So, I mean, there is a lot more
(07:29):
to come in this field, and this field is going
through constant evolution, and we are trying to make this
treatment more and more efficacious. And the beauty is just
one time infusion. And you know I used to call
it or this kind of treatment, I call them live drug.
(07:50):
That means worth you give the cells, those cells, they
stay in your system, they expand they identify the cancer cells,
they kill them off, and then they can stay there
and prevent any future relapse. So they stay there as
memory cells. So it's really beautiful and fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Now when you talk about shipping off the T cells,
and I suppose the cancer cells themselves from a patient.
Are those Is that cancer cell in that one patient
unique to that patient from a DNA structure or is
that particular type of cancer sort of generic? I'm wondering
about off the shelf. Use, what is the unique part
(08:29):
that prevents you from just going, oh here, let me
give you this particular product that's sitting here on my shelf,
versus having to have it manufactured specifically to the individual.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
That's a great question, barn And you know right now
the cart cells we are primarily using ortologous cart cells.
That means we are harnessing the immune cells from the
patient itself, right, and then we are genetically engineering it
with the receptor which works against a particular cancer type
(09:00):
and that kind of is the that kind of depends
on the protein antigen which is expressed on the surface
of the cancer cells.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay, so that's a unique component, correct.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
And now we are also we have clinical trial utilizing
allogeneic car T cells, which means you already have off
the shelf product from a healthy donor, and that product is,
you know, sitting there. As soon as you diagnose a
patient with relapse of fractrial lymphoma or maloma, you don't
(09:33):
even need to collect their cells or wait for you know,
three to four weeks to get the product back. You
can just use that off the shelf product which is
from a healthy donor, and you can give it straight
to the patient. So it you know, certainly saves you
those three four weeks weeks of wait time.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
That is amazing. And that's the I've been talking with
the OHC folks now for years. My initial cancer diagnosis
is in twenty eighteen. You guys have been on my
program since before I diagnosed with cancer. So I've been
following and you know, just with the most with the
wildest amazing the development of this car tee. And I
know that someday, maybe like next week, you'll be in
(10:12):
here talking about No, it's on the shelf right now.
We're we have we have moved past this waiting period.
All these different types of cancers can be addressed with
this basically down the road, off the shelf product. I'm
excited for that, and I cannot thank OHC enough for
being on the cutting edge doing these clinical trials because
this is where it all happens, folks. Clinical trials going
on right now at OHC. They always are. So if
(10:35):
you want to the best device I can give you,
if you get the cancer diagnosis, we can all agree
it sucks, but do what I did. Call OHC and
or get a second opinion. It's eight eight eight sixty
eight hundred eight eight eight sixty eight hundred. To learn more,
go online it's ohcare dot com. Doctor. Thank you so
(10:56):
much for what you're doing each and every day. I
really get enthused and actually extremely hopeful when I talk
to you folks. So he went the great work.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Thanks again Brian for having me here.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Good heaving pleasure, good heaven in studio A fifty six. Folks,
Like I said, listen to Todd Zenzer this morning. You
gotta hear that podcast. City of Cincinnati. I don't know
if they can ever fix it. Tim Rivers, American Glad Chronicles.
Now that hunt
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