Hour 1-Dave Hatter

Gary Jeff Walker is in for Jamie Allman today and Gary's IT guy Dave Hatter joins us this hour.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Don't fence me in. Hey,you got that Whitney for me? Alex,
Yeah, brother, let's go Eve, I shit stay, I would

(00:21):
all leap being your way, SoI good. But I know I'll think
of you every step up the way, and don't will the late Whitney Houston

(01:06):
singing Dolly Parton's classic I Will AlwaysLove You, and Whitney helped, of
course, make that a classic.I begin this way today because today would
have been Whitney Elizabeth Houston's birthday.Of course, she ceased having birthdays back
in twenty eleven. It's been twelveand a half years since Whitney passed,
I believe, or eleven and ahalf years twenty twelve, sad forty eight

(01:30):
years old. Before we look aheadon this Jamie Allman Show on one oh
four nine, The Patriot, alook back at significant events and people tied
to this particular date in history.Because if you do not want to repeat
history, you have to recall it. Something to that effect, you know
what I mean. You don't payattention, you don't learn from history,

(01:52):
then you are doomed to repeat it. Eighteen fifty four, Henry David rose
Walden describing his experience is living nearWalden Pond as a hermit, Massachusetts.
First published nineteen thirty four, oneof the terrible, terrible decisions by Fdr
Franklin D signed an executive order nationalizingsilver. That's what we need. Two

(02:16):
years later, Jesse Owens won hisfourth gold medal to Berlin Olympics to a
scowling Adolf Hitler. United States tookfirst place in the four hundred meter relay
that day, nineteen forty five.This is a big news history note of
the day. Really, three daysafter the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, a

(02:37):
USB twenty nine super fortress that theycalled box Car dropped a nuclear device over
Nagasaki, killing another estimated seventy fourthousand Japanese. Odd thing about the Nagasaki
bombing is that there were really nomilitary targets at all in Nagasaki. There

(03:02):
were other sites that they could haveused, and Nagasaki just happened to be
the largest enclave of Christians in EastAsia at the time. It was nineteen
sixty nine, this date. Youcan't suit the bottom. I go back

(03:23):
to the top of St. Sharon. Tate and four others brutally murdered at
Tate's Los Angeles home on this state, Cold leader Charles Manson in a group
of his followers, later convicted ofthat crime. I was a Manson family

(03:44):
member who just got out after allthese years in prison. Nineteen eighty two,
a federal judge in Washington ordered JohnHenckley Junior, who had been acquitted
of shooting President Ronald Reagan and threeothers by reason of insanity, committed to
a mental hospital. He's out nowtoo. Jerry Garcina Garcia, he said,
lead singer of The Grateful Dead,died in Forced Knowles, California,

(04:08):
a heart attack at the age offifty three. The year was nineteen ninety
five. On this date. Intwo thousand and four, Oklahoma City bombing
conspirator Terry Nichols, addressing a courtfor the first time, asked victims of
the blast for forgiveness as a judgesentenced him to one hundred and sixty one
consecutive life sentences. And we allremember nine years ago today, Michael Brown

(04:31):
Junior, a black eighteen year oldshot to death by a police officer following
an altercation in Ferguson, Missouri.The Ferguson Effect. We've been living with
it ever since. Hands up,don't shoot. But the real story,
of course, was much simpler.Michael Brown j Michael Brown Jr. Was

(04:55):
a criminal who went for the policeman'sgun and died for his efforts. Basketball
Hall of Famer Bob Coozy has abirthday to day. Tennis hall of Famer
Rod Labor, as well comedian directorDavid Steinberg, Sam Elliott, the actor,
singer Barbara Mason love her voice.College hall of famer and former NFL

(05:15):
player John Cappelletti has a birthday.Another college football Hall of Famer and former
NFL star Doug Williams, who wasa Super Bowl MVP, is sixty eight.
Melanie Griffith's birthday today. Amanda Bears, Curtis Blow the Rapper, and
Saint Louis Blues Fans. Hockey Hallof Famer Brett Hull turns fifty nine on

(05:38):
this August ninth. Freedom of speechunder attack Donald Trump's four indictments, the
four newest indictments, of course,revolving around his expression of freedom of speech
that he had been cheated out ofthe twenty twenty election, and rolling some

(05:59):
of these seven twenty five million peoplewho voted for Donald Trump across this country
took question to redress the government asthey're guaranteed by the Constitution of grievances revolving
around the twenty twenty election. Asthe Congress was ready to certify that,
on January sixth, they arrested DonaldTrump for basically denying an election result.

(06:29):
The same things that Hillary Clinton hadbeen doing for four years when she lost
to Trump in twenty sixteen, thesame thing that Kim Jeffrey's, Nancy Pelosi,
Stacy Abrams at All have done consistently. Still no indictments against them,
don't you wonder why? And nowthe DOJ wants to silence Donald Trump once

(06:56):
again while he awaits trial with thesebag orders, which are again but you
get the irony here. You're restrictingfreedom of speech in a case that is
punishing freedom of speech, someone's freedomof speech. And it's not just about
Donald Trumpet's about every single last oneof us. We'll get into that a

(07:16):
little bit today. I don't knowif you heard this story in California where
else. Cinnabon employees at a particularCinnabon store have gone on strike because the

(07:36):
boss, the manager, the ownersays they can't have political signs or buttons
while they're working. They don't feelsafe because they can't have a button that's
pro rainbow or pro abortion or anythingelse that they want to And it doesn't

(07:56):
matter what your politics are, don'tbring them into the cinnabon, don't you
think? And what about the seveneleven workers in Stockton, California beating a
bajeebus out of this guy who whowas brash and thought he was just going
to steal the store clean homent onthis Wednesday, August nine, twenty twenty

(08:20):
three. How you doing good?To be with you among the stories following
locally in the Saint Louis area.Well, they've got a brand new what
would you call it, a puiin effect in Lake Saint Louis. They're
using technology now the police are todetermine or they will be they will have

(08:45):
this as a tool to determine whetheryou are buzzed while you're driving or not.
With marijuana and the availability of itand the legality of it a reality
for those of you in Missouri.If you're driving and not drunk but high

(09:05):
in Lake Saint Louis, you couldget a ticket. And they've got this
new technology. Will it matter?And as someone noted in one of the
news stories last night, I'd ratherhave someone high behind the wheel than someone
drunk behind the wheel. And Iunderstand that there may be an argument for

(09:26):
something like that, but just regardless, just know if you're passing through Lake
Saint Louis, there could be apot checkpoint in your future. Also,
we have a death announcement in obituarythis morning, and I did not know
this community well. In fact,I could say honestly, I did not

(09:50):
know this community at all. ButI think it's sad to note that because
of a vote in North County,Glen Echo Park exists no more. We
hardly knew the Glen Echo Park nowpart of Normandy and south Side. They

(10:11):
have identified an alleged accused child predatoraccused of attacking or approaching both a six
year old and twelve year old andtargeted attacks. It appears he is a
refugee, not a citizen of thiscountry, from Afghanistan, and they have

(10:33):
activated and called ICE to find outif this guy is I mean, they
need to convict him. So innocentuntil proven guilty, unless of course you're
Donald Trump in this country. Butso that situation is ongoing and it looks

(10:54):
like could be a little bit ofa nasty weather day as we get on
through this Wednesday, just today andthen the rest of the week, pretty
clean and green. Back to freedomof speech under attack. And that's exactly
what we've been seeing, oh wow, for at least the Trump era the

(11:16):
last five or six years. Becauseone of the things that has always pointed
out about forty five about President Trumpis that he says things that offends people.
And I don't think I think he'san equal opportunity offender. I think
he's offended a lot of different peoplewith a lot of the different things that
he's said over the years that havebeen both in a public forum and stuff

(11:39):
like the Billie Bush video when hewas talking about treatment of women and the
like. But that's one that's beenthe one. In fact, it may
have got him not elected in twentytwenty ultimately with suburban white women and others
who just couldn't stand the vernacular.But we need to go back to our

(12:03):
beginnings as a country and realize thatthe First Amendment right to freedom of speech
meant specifically language that some would consideroffensive. That was the whole point.
You have the right to be agithering idiot. If you want to.

(12:28):
According to our Constitution's Bill of rights, you can say a lot of things.
You know, there are always consequencesfor your actions outside of what the
government does. But the government isnot supposed to inhibit or restrict your right
to say what you believe and feel. I mean, your rights stop at

(12:50):
mine os. But you are notrestricted according to the law of the land.
I eid. The United States Constitution, in any interpretation of the First
Amendment, you're allowed to say whatyou believe. I am, you are,
Donald Trump is. But they're sayingnah, baby nah. Donald Trump

(13:11):
wasn't allowed to say, for example, on January sixth, that the election
was rigged because he firmly believes thatand many of us do. He wasn't
allowed to defend and now they don'twant him to be able to defend himself

(13:35):
as he is facing hundreds of years, possibly in federal prison, for just
exercising his right of freedom of speech, and now they're trying to stifle that
freedom of speech as he goes totrial and the most politically charged, trumped

(13:56):
up kangaroo court style third world bananarepublic kind of justice system that we thought
we were above here in the UnitedStates of America, it's all about freedom
of speech. And it's not justabout Donald Trump. This is the thing
we need to be vigilant about defendingand protecting, not about defending or protecting

(14:22):
Donald Trump, but our own rights. If they can do it to somebody
who's one of the most powerful,richest men in the country, they can
do it to you and me justlike that. And this is the important
thing we all need to glean fromthe Trump trial and from the pre trial

(14:43):
nonsense, is that this is allabout the First Amendment, every single part
of it is. It's not aboutsedition. It's not about treason, it's
not about inciting people riot. It'sabout the ability to express your own thoughts

(15:07):
in public. It's about the expressionof the freedom of speech, first and
foremost and always in this country.You know, you don't have freedom of
speech in Iran. You don't havefreedom of speech in Cuba, or in
Venezuela, or in Russia or inChina. Certainly no freedom of speech in

(15:33):
communist China. I mean, theyjust roll over students with tanks there.
Remember Tianamen Square. But we areso weird different supposedly, maybe We're not
so different after all. And thisis the thing that bothers me. I'm
not worried at all about the twentytwenty four election and who I will vote

(15:56):
for and all of that other nonsense. That's another thing we need to we
really need to not have campaigns roundthe clock three sixty five, twenty four
seven in this country, Gary Jeffand for Jamie Alman on one O four
nine to Patriot. Back after theboom, Gary Jeff Walker in for Jamie

(16:22):
Alman on one of four nine toPatriot. There you go, step on
the vocals, man. We havelined up a really, really what I
think is a wonderful show. Butof course I would think that because I
lined it up. But in thiscavalcade of guests this morning that you're gonna
hear, we open up with aguy I consider probably one of the number

(16:48):
one tech guys in the nation whenit comes to the latest technology, what
it means to you, what tolook out for, what to watch for,
and disturbing trends as the technology accelerates. And it's just it's amazing where
we are in twenty twenty three comparedto where we were even five years ago.

(17:11):
It's moving that fast to help uskeep up with what's going on around
us, and in some cases,you know, the AI masters wanted inside
us. Eventually. Dave Hatter ismy friend from intrust It, and he
joins us for some tech talk onthis Wednesday morning. Good morning, mister

(17:33):
Hatter, how are you? I'mgreat, Jared Jess, how are you
doing? Fantastic? First up onour list this morning. I saw this
and the first thing I thought wasthe movie Minority Report, a black box
AI system influencing criminal justice decisions forover two decades. You know, we're
all just many of us just comingawake to the fact that AI is invading

(18:00):
every part of our lives, andthis may determine in some cases whether you
remain in jail or you're out freeafter serving your time. Justice systems around
the world using artificial intelligence to assesspeople with criminal convictions. The technologies rely
on machine learning algorithms, and theirkey purpose is to predict the risk of

(18:22):
reoffending. We can't let him gobecause we know there's something in his DNA
or whatever that means he's going tocommit another heinous act. I mean,
can you enlighten us on this technologya little bit. Yeah, this is
a pretty wild story because this issomething I really wasn't aware of until I

(18:44):
stumbled into this story. And thisparticular article is that fiz phys dot org
and they go into the background onthis and a lot of it is written
from the perspective of the United Kingdom, where they've been using a system called
Oasis, which defend their assessment system, as you mentioned, since two thousand
and one. So you know,AI, I guess let me take one

(19:06):
step back and then come back tothe specifically, artificial intelligence you know,
conceptually has been around for a longtime. It's not new, but it's
really taken off in the last yearto two years with some significant advancements like
CHATSYPT. You know, there's noone out there I'm aware of there with
any credibility you can say, andwe've reached artificial general intelligence, which would

(19:26):
be an idea that the machine cando anything is good or better than the
human being. You know, mostof this stuff that's out there now,
it kind of has a narrow focus, right, It's designed to do a
specific type of task, and soyou know, this stuff is not new,
but I think it's interesting where wesee examples that in many cases,
some of this type of technology hasbeen in place for a long time again

(19:48):
going back to two thousand and onein the UK, and you know,
some of the concerns they raise aboutit are and these are the same concerns
that you will often hear about anysort of AHI. Well it's a black
box, right, you don't reallyknow what the data is, You don't
really know that, you don't reallyknow what the algorithms are doing to come
to their conclusions. In fact,I think we may have talked about this
before, Gary, Jeff. Ifyou go to look at chat ept right

(20:11):
open ais chat ept product which hasbeen in the news a lot, and
it is a it can do someamazing things. It warns you clearly you
might get answers that are completely fictitious, right, it's just literally making stuff
up, so you know, whenyou look at the lack of transparency and
the fact that you have these blackboxes. And I thought this was particularly
interesting that they pointed out in thisstory that while there have been concerns about

(20:33):
this, like, well, howis it determining that this particular person is
at high risk of reoffending? Soprobably you know, wouldn't get out on
parole or something. They mentioned thatthey've never let anyone outside the organization that
runs this look at their data ortheir algorithms, So who really knows what
it's doing except the handful of people, which you know, not much,

(20:55):
not much in the way of sunshineand transparency there. Well, and one
of the reasons that many of ushave serious reservations about the continued push of
artificial intelligence in this technology, Dave, is because there's no transparent there's not
a lot of transparency anywhere. Wewould like to see exactly what AI knows,

(21:18):
exactly what it can do before wesign up for more AI. Well,
and you know, this segues intoanother topic that I think is related
into something else that I'm increasingly concernedabout. You know, when you look
at you talk about things like intellectualproperty and trade secrets. And you know,
one of the things that's also beenin the news around AI a lot

(21:41):
is there are now people suing thecompanies behind some of these AI products claiming
that they stole their copyright. Youknow, if you look at a product
like chats Ett, for example,it's essentially scraped the Internet and got content
that it was able to get itshands on. To train its learning models.
Right, some article or blog thatyou wrote, or your neighbor wrote,

(22:03):
or your spouse wrote or whatever,you know, your entire company's website,
all of that potentially has been scraped. You know. Again there's some
fairly high prominent people stealing over thisnow, and it's using other people's data.
Once it's in there, you don'tknow how it's doing it. Again,
getting back to that transparency issue,but it also gets to an issue
digital rights management, where we're increasinglyseeing, you know, technology converge or

(22:30):
car is essentially a computer. Nowin many cases it's you know, autonomous
or getting there that's all based onAI. And when you get into this
DRM space and the transparency, asyou mentioned, it's like, well,
you know, this is Forward orthis is Nissan or whoever picking company,
They're not going to let you seewhat it's doing. You know, in

(22:51):
fact, we're in a place now. Or in some cases you can't even
repair your own stuff because it hassoftware in it and they claim, well
they you know, they own thatsoftware if they have the copyright over that
software, and you can't do anythingwith it. So the transparency part of
all of this is a big problem. In my mind. And again when
if you just go back to thisoriginal story we started on with this system

(23:11):
in the UK, you know,they're not the only country in the world
that's using this type of technology tomake these decisions. And it gets back
to you know, okay, howis it making these decisions? Is the
data unbiased? You know? Isit really doing what it ought to do?
And when when basically you only havea small number of people who have

(23:33):
access to it, you just haveto trust them that it's doing what it's
supposed to do. And then Iguess the more the more interesting question is
do they even really know what it'sdoing? Passed the two thousand being nefarious,
You know, they don't know themselves. Dave passed in two thousand and
eight the Illinois Biometric Information Privacy Actforbids the collection of facial scans without informed

(23:56):
consent. They just took another sixtyeight and a half million dollars from Instagram
because they've violated Illinois's law. InIllinois is really the leader in the country
in this biometric protection Act, thisInformation Privacy Act. The suit. The

(24:17):
latest suit alleges that a facial recognitionfeature introduced by Instagram in twenty fifteen violated
their law by collecting biometrics to findother pictures and videos the user might appear
in that we're hosted on Instagram andFacebook. Meta again has been violating people's
privacy because mostly they've invited them todo so. But anyway, go ahead

(24:38):
your thoughts. Well, I'm gladyou brought this one up because I think
it's important on a couple of fronts. Right now, the last I checked,
there are only the federal government hasno privacy law. Now there are
laws like Hippo which protect your privacyin a specific context, like you know,
your medical data, but generally speaking, there's no privacy law in the

(25:00):
US like there is in the EU. With the GDPR. You have about
ten states that have some type ofprivacy law. California Consumer Privacy Act probably
the most well known, and thenIllinois passed as biometric privacy law. So
now we're talking specifically about your characteristics. And when people say biometrics, you

(25:22):
know, they typically think of thingslike I scan, fingerprint scan, that
sort of thing. But you know, there's all different types of biometrics.
The way you talk, the wayyou walk, right, you're gate,
so there's all different kinds of waysthese companies could use biometric data to identify
you and track you. And Ithink this is particularly interesting because Facebook now,
as a reminder for all your listeners, Meta is now the parent company

(25:47):
of Facebook, Messenger, Instagram,Threads and other platforms. Right, And
you know they've they've been in thecrosshairs around privacy for a long time because
when you get right down to it, guess what threads they're new, Twitter
or Killer unquote, and all theirother free platforms aren't free, right,

(26:08):
Believe it or not. They don'thave hundreds or thousands of developers sitting around
just coding away building this stuff toyou because they're good folks. They make
their money off your data. Right, You are the product, not the
customer. They're monetizing your data.You're paying in data when you use these
things. And to your point,many people don't bother to read any of

(26:30):
the terms of service or anything.They don't really understand the trade off here.
And I'm not suggesting that if youread the terms of service and you
understand the amount of data they collect, which is pretty insane, I encourage
your listeners to go out and hitthe Apple app Store, for example,
and just look up the threads appmet this new thing which is connected to

(26:52):
Instagram by the way, and seehow much it collects. I think you
might be shocked if you just readall of the data. Basically, it's
literally everything on your phone. Everything. It has access to everything. Now
that means things like texts and youknow, really stuff you might not necessarily
want them to have. So inthis case, the argument was that Instagram

(27:14):
was surreptitiously collecting your facial scan,your biamental data. You're the map of
your face, and you know,thus find sixty eight million dollars because they
didn't follow the Illinois law of informedconsent. They I don't know. I
kind of like, I kind oflike that. No hold on, we
got a break, Dave. ButI want you to hold on and we'll

(27:36):
talk more about this, and we'lltalk about Ford submitting a patent that could
actually make the car repossess itself.Gary Jeff And for Jamie Allman on one
oh four nine The Patriot one ohfour nine The Patriots on a Wednesday morning,
August ninth, Gary Jeff Walker infor Jamie Allman. Is Jamie is

(28:00):
going to return next Tuesday. Don'tworry you won't have to put up with
me the whole way through. It'sgreat to be with you. Used to
used to a long, long timeago, like we're talking over fifty years
ago. Live in the East Sidein Collinsville, Illinois, so it's nice

(28:21):
to reconnect with the Golden Gateway community. That'd be you. Dave Hatter is
our guest for the next few minutestill the top of the hour, an
it guy, and this story,Ford submits a patent that would allow cars
to repossess themselves using anything from starterinterrupt devices if you miss a payment too.

(28:45):
God knows what they're gonna work onnext. So tell me what you
know about this, mister Hatter,if you will, Well, Gary,
Jeff, I know this sounds likescience fix and probably for a lot of
people listening, but it's an interestingsegue from the last story where we talked
about Illois biometric privacy law binding ourfriends on Instagram for surreptitiously correct collecting your

(29:07):
facial print. You know, alot of newer cars are basically rolling computers.
They have a lot of senses.In some cases they are using AI
for autonomous driving and so forth.And you know there's been a lot of
talk out of the industry about howthese cars are collecting an enormous amount of
data, including in some cases thingslike using facial recognition to identify you.
So that's that's the connection to thelast story, and i'll tie it in

(29:30):
here for you. So Forward hasa patent now, or is introduced a
patent anyway, I don't think it'sbeen granted where basically they can, thanks
to all of this technology in yourcar, potentially repossess your car and punish
you up until the point it drivesitself away by doing things like, well,
you didn't make your payment, Sonow we're going to disable your radio.

(29:52):
You still didn't make your payment.Well, now we're going to disable
your air conditioning. No payment,Well we're gonna turn off the starter and
you out of the car. Westill don't how to payment, Well how
about we just drive it on backto the dealership and we claim it again.
I know this probably sounds like sciencefiction to a lot of people.
That's the state of where we're attoday with technology. Now. Again,

(30:15):
as far as I know, theyhaven't even been granted the patent, and
I don't think any other car companieshave announced this yet, but you know,
within five years time, we willcertainly be in a place where your
car may just drive itself off.And okay, yeah, maybe if you
don't make the payments, that's warranted. But we get into a scenario like
what happens when there's a mistake,when your check just didn't make it in

(30:37):
time, or there's just a glitch. Right, people who've used computers understand
software as glitches. And suddenly youknow you can't get to work because your
car's gone, or you can't getin your car, and when you get
fired, it's going to be reallyhard to make those Payment's ben isn't it.
Or let's say, for example,it's somehow misidentifies you going back to
that biometric angle and decides to turnthese things up. Or as I know

(31:00):
you and I have talked about before, Gary, Jeff, imagine this.
Let's say that the system works exactlyas designed, right, what happens when
hackers get into it. Forget themistakes, Forget people just not pan their
bills and they walk outside and theircar's gone. Eventually, imagine at five
pm on a Friday, Chinese NationState actors decide to hack into every Ford

(31:26):
and somehow disable it wherever it is, whatever it's doing. So you're driving
down the expressway eighty miles an hourand suddenly your car just stops in the
middle of the expressway and there's asemi behind you going eighty miles an hour.
I know this sounds fantastical and hyperbolicto people, but there's been many,
many experts talking about the possibility ofhacking cars, turning them into weapons,

(31:48):
that sort of thing. And youknow, this patent that's now been
presented by Ford just shows you howfar down the road we are of not
only your cars, but think aboutthis, Gary Jeff. Any device that
has software in it, getting backto that digital rights management we talked about
last segment, any device that hassoftware in it could potentially be remote controlled

(32:09):
and ultimately disabled, remotely from itsmaker or due to some government edict or
something. As we get increasingly dependenton devices that are entirely run by software.
So well, what you here's themost dangerous thing to me, not
even communist Chinese hackers or state actorsdoing this, but our own government with

(32:35):
the establishment and the swamp as swampyas it is. Dave, everybody who
has not seen it needs to seethe movie Idiocracy, because in that movie,
among the other things that we seecoming to fruition in American twenty twenty
three, the government just saying,Okay, we're just going to stop your
car. We don't like what yousaid, we don't like what you're doing.

(33:00):
May not be doing anything illegal,but you disagree with us. You're
dissenting from the government, and thereforewe're just going to disable you. And
the technology that exists now and thetechnology that will exist, as you mentioned,
in the next five years, makethat entirely possible because your car is
a rolling computers. As crazy asthis sounds, I mean, we are

(33:25):
again, whether it's the US government, it's a foreign government, it's just
hackers the want to create chaos,some criminal gang. We are increasingly sleep
walking into a place where software controlseverything. I'd encourage your listeners check out
an article. Take any of thesetheoretical conspiracy theories out of it. Go
read an article from The Atlantic calledthe Coming Software Apocalypse, and the whole

(33:50):
article is really not about hackers breakingin and closing down your assistance. By
the way, major hospital chain hasrecently been shut down because of a ransomware
attack again because their devices are fullof software that hackers attacked. But this
this Atlantic article again, the comingsoftware apocalypse talks really is focused more about
because everything is increasingly full of software, and because everything is increasingly interconnected in

(34:14):
one system relies on another, andbecause software is written by human beings that
make mistakes. You know, weare setting ourselves up for disaster because these
systems fail. Who who out therehas not used software that failed at some
point and in some cases completely unpredictably, you know, when they give an
example of the nine one one systemthat went down because of bad, bad

(34:37):
software. So in this business,in this business day, it happens all
the time. My producer Alex Muskov, I mean, I'm sure he's glad
to software is working this morning,but it could have just as easily gone
the other way. I'm so happyit's working, so happy it's working.
Well, all right, But well, you know, we rely on this

(35:00):
stuff so much now, I know, and increasingly so, and that's that's
a major concern. I remember backin the day when the mice powered the
transmitter, they'd a wheel and itjust kept spinning around, and the good
old analog days, well listen,Dave patter, Thank you so much,
great information as always, and tonever invite the enemy into your home with

(35:24):
any device. That's that's our mainnews. I think for most people,
from a ring doorbell to a roomba, they all have their perils and consequences.
Thank you so much, all right, pleasure, thanks for having me
on you bet Gary Jeff Walker infor Jamie Allman on this Wednesday morning,

(35:44):
one oh four nine to Patriot.Just ahead, Dan was all kinds of
news in Illinois about your right tocarry, your right to own firearms,
and now the ghost gun decision bythe Supreme Court that just came down.
We'll talk about it all in minutes.