ENCORE: The Bat Beside My Bed

ENCORE: The Bat Beside My Bed

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
The following is an encore presentation. This show is produced
and hosted by Mark Webber. The show is sponsored by
G three Aparo. The views expressed in the following program
are those of the sponsor and not necessarily the opinion
of seven tenor or iHeartMedia. Who is Mark Weber. He's
a self made business executive here to help you find

(00:25):
your success from the New York City projects to the
Avenue Montaigne in Paris. His global success story in the
luxury world of fashion is inspirational. He's gone from clerk
to CEO twice. Mark is classic proof that the American
dream is alive. And well, here's your host of Always
in Fashion, Mark Weber.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Mark Weber. Regular followers of the show know the first
and foremost, this is a business show. It's coupled with
my observations on life, and I certainly throw in a
bunch of lessons from life to help you be better
at your business. This week, I was mesmerized by the
number of things, but in particular the negotiations between the

(01:07):
President and the Democrats, between the President and the Republicans,
between the President and everybody and anyone who's living, breathing,
and talking in the United States. It's so hard to
affect change. People all love change. People will advocate for
change until you ask them to change right or left.
It was fascinating to watch and listen to this week.

(01:30):
It got me thinking. I've been thinking about talking with people,
negotiating with people, and I've been thinking about whatever it
takes to convince people. Convincing people that is not an
easy thing to do. Yes, I've been wondering about people
and the issues surrounding getting things done, and the choices
and the style for which you affect change at work.

(01:51):
I've thought about it. I've been bullied a number of
times at work, and I'm sure I've done my fair
share of bullying. It's okay because it's about human nature,
it's about who you are. It's not bullying like in
their traditional sense. But it does make people crazy. But
more importantly, what it does. You use it to influence
people that are not as strong as you, or powerful

(02:15):
as you in the company, or at higher level as
you are in the company. You do it to affect
change and get them to do what you want to do.
I've often thought about when I've been so called bullied
that as these people are talking to me and telling
me what they want me to do, or convince me
what I want to do. I'm wondering if they think
I have a ticket tape running across my head saying

(02:36):
this guy is stupid, because while they're doing it to me,
I know exactly what they're trying to do. They're trying
to push me into agreeing with them or do whatever
they want. Now, the truth is, if they're my boss,
I have no choice. I have to do what they want.
I've often thought about the approach to convincing people. Sometimes
you win, sometimes you lose, and when you lose, you
have to think about dignity and the dignity required into feet.

(03:01):
It's not how far you fall, it's how high you
bounce back. Sometimes sometimes I'd just like to have a
hammer or a stick or maybe a bat and drive
through my point, But life doesn't work that way, unless,
of course, you're Ray Donovant. All these thoughts got me
to the point of talking softly and carrying a big stick.

(03:24):
In fact, got me to remember the bat next to
my bed. I'm introspective tonight thinking about discussions. Do you
ever think about your style how you discuss, negotiate, or
argue I do me. I'm tough, but I'm fair. When
I make up my mind, I won't stop until I

(03:46):
get my way. Yeah. Sure, Like everyone else, the sea
word comes into play, the sea word compromise. And as
much as I hate it. As much as I hate
that word, I have to admit life business is about compromise. Hmm.

(04:06):
I don't have a hammer, I don't have a stick,
but I did have a baseball mat next to my bed.
And that leads me to tonight's show, As is often
the case, often the voice of reason, often the unemotional one,
often the stubborn supporter of right or wrong. My son
and co host Jesse Weber, How are you, Jesse? I'm good.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Where exactly are you going with this bat next to
your bed theme? I don't think we've heard this one before.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Oh that's human nature and that's for later. I have
a question for you. What do you think about my
style or technique when I'm politely trying to convince you
of something?

Speaker 3 (04:44):
What a question? Well, when I've seen you in business,
You're tough. You're tough, no nonsense. I've seen you in meetings.
People try to make jokes to calm the situation. You
cut right through it, all business. In fact, we had
a meeting recently. I don't want to mention where it was.
We had a meeting recently, and boy, oh boy, was
it uncomfortable sitting next to you. I had to look
down at certain points. But you were fair. You were

(05:07):
very tough, but you were fair about everything that you
were saying. You're also hilarious. I don't know if you
realize that you're a pretty funny guy.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Funny to amuse you.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Remember you told the story on the air recently, which
about being in a bar and the cashier rounded up
your check and you were waiting for change and he
wouldn't give you the penny that you were owed. This
ridiculous story, ridiculous time, a whole big thing about you
getting this penny. So I laughed at the story. I

(05:37):
couldn't believe it. And then you take me to the
same bar, and I didn't realize at first it was
the same bar, and we go there and you said
to me, as we said, by the way, I remember
that story I told you on the radio. That's the guy.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
I said, it's funny.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, it was funny until the check came. Now the
guy wouldn't give you the forty two cents that you
were owed, so technically, if I had one, he ordered
you forty three cents in total. And what did you do?
You gave him a hard time about forty two cents?
You go forty two cents, not to mention the penny
you owe me from last time, I was cracking up.
I couldn't believe you actually did that. I didn't know
if it was a story for the radio until I

(06:13):
saw you do it in real life.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
So I didn't leave until I got my forty three cents.
Oh there you go. Why should it be in his pocket?
Why should be in the bar's pocket? Who said I
want to give him a tip of forty three cents? Anyway,
it's negotiations. Why should I give it to him? Jesse?
Let me reask you. How about you when you know
I'm right and I want you to do something? Well
things my way?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Well, remember when I said you're in business, you're tough
but fair when it comes to our negotiations between you
and me, if I can even call it a negotiation,
there's absolutely no fair in talking. What what I've said
this before, I'll say it again. You are like a
prosecuting attorney, where even if the person is innocent, you

(06:56):
will make them feel guilty. You do this thing where
you're like, m you sure about that? Sure you? Sure?

Speaker 2 (07:04):
You sure?

Speaker 3 (07:05):
And I'm driven to say things that I never even
thought I was going to say. It's very frustrating all
the time when I'm trying to have a conversation with
you and negotiate something with you, and you make me
feel guilty, even though I shouldn't be feeling guilty. So
what's so? I'm your father, but wrong is wrong.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Does everyone hear this? This is what I deal with
on a twenty four to seven basis, tough but not fair.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Just before we go into what I really want to
tell you about this, I bought the new iPhone a
year ago. I bought the big one. Yeah, and you,
in particular, and your brother drag me over the calls
you made videos. You took a computer, yeah, and then
put it near your ear and made believe it was

(07:52):
a phone, moughing on me how big the phone was.
You're talking into your computer.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
I go, oh, here, let me type of text messages.
I'm holding the laptop up like, so I can hear you? Fine,
I can hear you fine. I was like, oh, let
me put it back in my pocket.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, make it fun of my computer, my phone, of
my phone. It's too big now.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
And now, well I hadn't got enough phone in a
few years. I went to Apple, I got the brand
new phone.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
You were right.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
This thing is amazing what you were right? This thing
is amazing. I don't it's big. It's amazing. It's like
a little iPad. I don't know how I went on
without it for so many years.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Could you just say that one more time?

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Because people are curious, they can rewind the show on podcasts.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
You know, this is an important business lesson, believe it
or not. That's where I was going here. How do
you talk to your boss when you think he's wrong.
There was a fellow his name was Robert Solomon, and
he was one of my early mentors at PVH. Guy
was brilliant merchant, brilliant merchant, and he just was a
smart guy. By the time I met him, he was

(08:53):
his early fifties. I was in my early twenties, and
he was a senior vice president of the corporation and
very highly regarded as one of the three people running
the place. I'll never forget. We had a meeting and
in the meeting they invited in twenty or thirty people,
and what they were doing was they were discussing the
content of the future offering of the company, and everyone

(09:16):
was showing their ideas on where to go forward with
this product for this reason, this product, for that reason,
the colors, the sizes, the scope of the line, and
he was the decision maker on what would actually make
it from that collection which is in sample form, to
the actual line, a collection that would be shown and

(09:36):
made for a hundred salesmen to take around the country
and show out and sell. And at one point he
would ask different people and they would say to him, well,
mister Solomon, I think you've made a great point. I
think this will work, and that will work. And I'm
listening to everyone going along the way, and everybody finally
gets to me, and after all the sucking up, I
said to myself, you know what, I'm not just going

(09:57):
to agree because they're doing it. And I said to
him and I quote, I think you're wrong, mister Solomon.
I think some of those things are excellent, but I
think you ought to consider those things over there that
you said aren't right. And he looked at me and
he said, thanks for that, and they kept him going
around the room and they finished up. The meeting ended
about a half hour later. Everybody got The meeting ended

(10:19):
about a half hour later, and mister Solomon said, thank
you everyone for coming. We'll see you later. We'll tell
you what the final results are. I appreciate your help.
Everybody starts to get up to leave, and mister Solomon says, Mark,
I'd appreciate it if you'd stay behind silence. So I
stayed behind. I said, I can't imagine what this is about.

(10:40):
He says, I want to teach you a lesson, Mark,
I might not always be right, but I'm never wrong.
And that's a lesson you have to remember when you're
dealing with your bosses. That's the lesson here. Your boss
may not be always right, but you have an obligation
to say support them. You have to learn how to

(11:02):
say the things you need to say to make sure
you're helping them be right. And don't forget this is
like life. Politics is everywhere, and the way you say
things and the way you present them is extraordinarily important.
To your success. So Jesse, unless you are Rave Donovan,
or you have a bat or you have a stick,
I need you to think about what you're saying to me,

(11:23):
because it seems to me. I mean, I always be right,
but I'm never wrong.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
It's a terrific Sure are you really using him as
a reference for life? I don't think that's a good
idea for your listeners.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
He gets things done.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Uh okay, that's one way looking at it.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Uh okay, Well, listen, there's sometimes ego and there's sometimes politics,
but there's always respect involved. And with that we'll be
back in a minute.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Always in fashion.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Spent a lifetime of my career building the van usen Brand,
and I am so pleased that they're back with us
now talking about suits. Men were dressing up again and
it's become cool to wear a suit. Suits can be
won on multiple occasions in multiple ways. You could wear
a suit formally to go out at night or to

(12:14):
an event. You can wear a suit to the office
with or without a tie. If you look closely. Now
fashion trends suits are being worn with turtlenecks or mark next.
The choices are endless, and every one of them looks right,
you could really really look the part. I believe that
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(12:36):
and wearing a suit is one of those things that
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(12:58):
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(13:20):
You can find van Using Kolflex Men's stretch suits at
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You should go look at them.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Welcome back to it always in fashion. Here's your host,
Mark Webber.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
I'm really having fun tonight exploring this topic of communicating
with my interesting show title the bat by my Bed.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
By the way, you haven't explained what that has to
do with anything. So well, it's in the title. Don't
people who have a right to Now you're in a rush.
Don't you think the audience would be interested in knowing
what the bat by my bed means? It's on a term.
You hear a lot.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, they like you are just going to have to
wait the bad side. I will now talk about a
big stick.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
We're downgrading.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well, actually this is a really big stick. See Teddy
Roosevelt said, talk softly, but carry a big stick.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
You must have learned that in school, Jesse, Yeah, I
knew that one.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, what does it mean? I don't know. I'm giving
you a chance here, all right, Well, Teddy Roosevelt, you
had your chance. Teddy Roosevelt was the then VP of
the United States Vice President of the United States. On
September two, nineteen oh one, he was at the Minnesota

(14:42):
State Fair and he was talking about the political stance
of the country and he said, and I quote, we
need to walk softly, but carry a big stick. What
he meant by that was we'll be nice, we'll be fair,
we'll have a point of view. We're going to tell
you what we want to do, and we're going to
back it up big time with our military might. He's

(15:05):
going to get done what he needed to get done.
I don't know if you remember this either, but I
think it might have been McKinley who was assassinated as president,
and not long after that speech he became President of
the United States. It's a little history lesson for those
of you who are they are big stick diplomacy. Anyway,
what am I talking about. I want to talk a
little bit about communication. When I was a CEO of

(15:30):
a company, I thought often about communicating. You see, I
have a philosophy. One of my quotes you might want
to write down that's really significant, and I've always believed
in it is behind anyone with a vision, there's fifty
well intentioned people undermining that vision. Simply put, when you

(15:52):
have a vision, there are fifty people who decide better
than you what the future is. They all have the
right ideas in mind, they want to do the right thing,
except they're not in charge and you are. And when
you make up your mind, you got to get things done.
And one of the most difficult and important jobs for
a CEO or any business leader for that matter. Is

(16:13):
convincing people of your vision sounds simple, but it isn't,
because you see, there are a lot of constituents that
you're talking to. When you're the CEO, when you're the president,
when you're the boss, when you're the factory manager, section head,

(16:34):
whatever it is. Convincing people is a very important part
of your job. You can't always have that big stick
next to you. You have to know how to communicate.
Think of it this way. First of all, you have bosses.
Even though you're a CEO, you have a board who
has to understand the direction you're going. They have to

(16:55):
be looking out for the shareholders invested in the company.
Because when you're the c you know, let's face it,
whether you know it or not, you think you're the
big shot, but really you're a board of directors or
banks or lenders who are responsible for the company. They
give you money, they're trusting you with their money, and
therefore you have to communicate with them. So there's no
question you have to communicate upwards. Then, of course you

(17:19):
have to communicate with your managers, the people that report
directly into you, because after you make decisions on what
you want to do. These are the people that have
to execute all of those. People have to understand what
it is you're trying to achieve. They have to understand
the goals of the company, so you have to communicate
to them. I had to make sure the entire workforce

(17:41):
understood the good things about the company. I had to
have them motivated. I wanted the people working in my
company to understand that the leadership of the company had
a vision, that we had an understanding of what it
would take to be successful, that we included them very
much in our thinking. That we leave those with the
people who actually would do the work to get the

(18:03):
job done. So I had to communicate to them as well.
You would think after all of that I'd be done,
but I wasn't. You have to communicate with other constituents
or your suppliers, the people supplying you with the raw material,
the people manufacturing your products for you incredibly important because
they're investing their time, they're taking risks with you. You're

(18:26):
asking them to manufacture for you, that you're going to
pay them, that you're not going to end up going bankrupt.
So we had to communicate to them, and last, but
not least, after you've dealt with your board, after you've
done with your management team, after you've dealt with the
people that actually do the work, after you've done with
your suppliers, You've got the consumers to contend with. And

(18:48):
what's more important than a CEO making sure the consumers
and the customer out there actually understands what the product
is and why you're selling it and why they should
buy it. So when you communicate or in effect negotiating,
when you're the CEO, you're talking to an awful lot
of people in order to get the job done. You

(19:08):
find that interesting, Jesse, and I hope I'm not keeping
you awake.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Otherways you'll hit me with a big stick exactly by
the bat by your bed.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, the bat by my bed, which I'm not talking
about yet. But I don't have that. I have to
convince people. It's like the big reveal.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
It's like true Detective, we don't know what Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
If that's what you're looking it's stay tuned. I have
a story to tell you. It's not now, but it's coming.
See the key in negotiation, The key in communication is
first understanding who you are and what you want to
say and do you have a vision and sending it
out across the airwaves. And today you know how it
easy it is to send it out across the world.
And God forbid you say the wrong thing, because that

(19:44):
goes out just as fast and it's even worse. But
the key and the concept of walk softly but carry
a big stick is strength and leverage. You have to
know when you walk in a room and you're negotiating,
who has the leverage you or do they? In our business,
if I own my own stores, I'm in control. I

(20:06):
can decide what goes in that stores. I can decide
what price it'll be. However, you out there, all of
you consumers, all of you out there with the money
with a check book or a credit card, you're my boss.
Sam Walton, the founder of Walmart, said it over and
over and over again. The most important people in your

(20:28):
life are your customers. They are my boss. I'm not
your boss. This is the founder of Walmart. The customer's
my boss. He decides, she decides what they're gonna buy.
That's where the leverage is. Don't, for a minute ever
forget that the people buying your products are really your boss,
and you better make products that are really really well made,
have the right quality, and they're important if you're selling

(20:51):
your product to a retailer. It's all about strength when
you have a powerful brand. When you are hmm, if
you're Tone, if you're Calvin Klein, Tommy Hill, Figure Decay,
Why My Sponsored, Donna Karen. If you're powerful brand, you
get to meet a retailer on equal footing. You have

(21:12):
something to say. But don't ever forget for a minute
that's their store and they're allowing you to sell their
customers through their store.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
I was thinking about that because you would think that
the leverage would be on the other way. How else
are you going to get your products out there? You
need a place to sell it the reason. But you're
talking about brands that can either be able to sell
it online or have their own freestanding stores, right, That's
where the leverage comes from. It's not like any powerful
brand that's out there, they have to be able to

(21:40):
be independent.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Was that a question? Yeah, kind of. Well, the answer
to your question is there are many many ways to
reach a consumer if you have a dedicated retail strategy
of your own, like Zara. Only can be found in
Zara's website or Zara's own stores. They don't care about
what's happening in blooming Macy's or lordent tail or Dylan's

(22:02):
or Belts or Nordstrums. They don't care because they have
their own stores. But when you walk into department stores
who bring a variety of brands, their multi brand retailers,
they need great brands, but you also need to sell
them and they have choices. Which the good thing about
your question leads to the most important part of negotiating.

(22:23):
Every negotiation both sides. Both parties have to win. If
you sell your product in Macy's and they need it,
they sell it and make money. You make money selling
them that you both have to win. The only thing
that's not guaranteed in the negotiation is that both parties
end up happy. Very often, you sell products at prices

(22:46):
you don't want. If you're a power player. See that's
the next thing I wanted to say. The size makes right,
might makes right. The stronger you are in a negotiation,
the bigger the company, the bigger the brand. The more
a powerful player you are, the more or you're able
to wield that big stick. You can be polite and quiet,
but if you want this brand you want this brand

(23:07):
in your store, you know how well it's gonna do.
Then you have to treat me fairly. And it's always
an interesting negotiation that comes from strength. I've been thinking about,
you know who I've been thinking about lately. I have
friends who sell their products into Costco.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Been in Casco, of course, I went on a field
trip there when I was in fifth grade. They showed
me two things. How they make sheet cakes. What is it,
you know, those giant rectangular cakes for birthdays?

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
They have a garbage can filled with whip for butter cream,
which is amazing. And they also showed me one other thing.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Why would I want to eat cake from a garbage can?

Speaker 3 (23:40):
It just shows how much butter cream that they make
in today, That's the point. And then they showed me
the surveillance footage of people stealing from the store, which
I thought was amazing. Do you know where people try
to sneak of rotisserie chicken out of the store. You'd
be shocked.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
You don't want to know it's right in their pants.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
It's a very different show.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
But really we're talking about Costco. I've taken to you
to Costco. Since then, we've the store and looked at everything.
Do you remember me showing you those end caps?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
What's an end cap?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
All right? For those of you out there, what's an
end cap? If you walk through any store? But I'm
talking now about Costco. If you look at the row
of underwear, and Costco could be one hundred feet long
and multiple brands along the way, but the end is
a square doff area where on three sides you find
a product which anchors this whole aisle. That's called an

(24:27):
end cap. And at Costco, an end cap is worth
tens of millions of dollars. If you have underwear and
you have a brand name, Costco has their own brand name,
and what they want to do is put their brand
on that endcap because that's the one thing in the
underwear section that is guaranteed to be seen not only

(24:48):
by the people purchasing the underwear along the line of underwear,
but also everyone who's walking by. Those sales that come
from instant gratification, Oh I need something like that. Those
are where tens of millions of dollars and could you
imagine what it's like to negotiate for them. That's where
Costco applies all their strength Could you imagine you're in
an underwear manufacturer, and sure you could sell your underwear

(25:12):
in a lot of places, but Costco's going to agree
to give you tens of millions of dollars just for
selling them. I'd like to believe Costco's very strong in
those negotiations, and that's what happens. It's all about the leverage.
Is it a win win even if you're not happy.
I'm sure it's costly to sell Costco those end caps.
I remember I told the story that I met a

(25:32):
guy in Hong Kong from Sears Robock and I asked
to sell him and he told me two rows and
Sears two rows in the dresshirt area. He told me
at the time two rows. If I agreed to sell
you those two rows and allow you to fill them
at Sears, this is when Sears was a killer retailer.

(25:54):
He says, your family will live a great life forever,
and if you're you'd put your children right behind you
and your company to sell me again, because those two
rows will generate enough sales at a Seer's Roebuck store
that fortunes will be made for you and your future generations.
Can you imagine what those negotiations were like, did you

(26:16):
sell them? No, he wouldn't buy from me.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
I was really looking forward to buying that yacht.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
I had to work the hard way. But the point
of the story is is if you walk softly, you
must carry a big stick. If you have something to sell,
you must have something behind you to make sure you
get your product placed and it's successful. I like whispering
and making sure you still hear me rather than yelling

(26:44):
at you and trying to catch your attention. Walking softly
and carry a big stick is a concept of negotiation.
That's a idea of understanding communication where the leverage is
and while both parties may win and doesn't mean both
parties will be happy when we come back. I want

(27:05):
to talk to you about the bat beside my bed. Always.
In fashion, Donna Karen began her career as one of
the finest, most successful, powerful women in the fashion industry.
She developed a collection aimed at the luxury market for
women on the go, women who were powerful in their workplace,

(27:26):
women who had lives that extended beyond the workplace, and
her clothes went from day and to night. An extraordinary collection.
But the interesting thing Donna Karen had a young daughter,
and she had friends and they couldn't afford to buy
the Donna Karon collection. And Donna invented dk NY Donna Aaren,
New York. It's an offshoot of the Donna Karen collection.

(27:47):
The same concept a lifestyle brand. Now we talk about
lifestyle brands, what does that really mean? Simply what they say,
there are brands that follow you throughout your lifestyle. You
get up in the morning, you start to get dressed
Donna Karen decam and why, as intimate apparel, as hosiery,
as all those products. You're getting dressed for work. You
get accessorized shoes, handbags, and it takes you through the day.

(28:09):
The remarkable thing about DK and Y clothes for work,
they work into the evening. The dresses, the suits, the pants,
the sweaters, the blouses, extraordinary clothes at affordable prices that
go from day in tonight. Part of your lifestyle is active.
You have weekends, you have events, you participate in sports.

(28:29):
Donna Karen's casual clothes did that under the DK and
Y label. A vast array of casual sportswear that make
women look great as they navigate their busy lives. Whether
you're going to soccer games for your children, or whether
you're going out to the movies, whatever you want to do,
DK and Y Jeans, DC and Y Sportswear is there

(28:52):
for you. That's what a lifestyle brand is. I need
to mention DKY active Wear, which is extraordinary, the leggings,
the sports bras, the sweats. You can wear DKY Activewear,
certainly in the gym, certainly when you're working out at home,
and certainly if you want on the street because it's

(29:12):
that well done. The quality of DKY is nothing short
of exceptional. And why shouldn't it be because it was
born from the idea of luxury made affordable for women
of America. DK and Why a true lifestyle brand that
takes you from day and tonight, from the week into
the weekend, DCN Why you can find DKNY and Macy's

(29:35):
DKY dot com van us actually the name venues And
first time I heard it, I thought was an old
man's company. I was in an interview and I was
being offered a job to work and that I said,
it's old man's company. And the headhunter who is recruiting
me said, you're an idiot, said they're a public company.
They're one of the world's great shirt makers. And if,
in fact you feel they're old, that's why they want

(29:55):
young people like you Mark to change the company and
to bring it into the next century. And lo and behold,
I joined them. I put my heart and soul in
that company. I did everything I can to participate in
making it one of the world's great brands. And it is.
If you look at Van using they called sportswear, I
don't understand the name sportswear. I don't understand neckwear when
you're talking about ties. I don't understand the name hosiery

(30:18):
when you're talking about socks. I'm not sure I understand
the name sportswear when you're talking about men's clothing. Well,
men's clothing is complicated because that in the retail venue
means suits and sport codes. Having said that, Van using sportswear, shirts, sweaters,
nitwear amazing. Then use it as a modern approach to
fashion that appeals to a broad base of Americans. First

(30:41):
of all, it's affordable. You find it in stores that
you visit that you could afford to participate it. You
could buy multiple items that are all coordinated together. Then
primary colors start with black and tan and gray and navy.
They're all sellable. They make sense. The knitwear in the
spring of the year, amazing golf shirts, amazing polar shirts
in the fall of the year, whether it's polar fleas

(31:03):
or sweaters. Van Use it has a modern approach to fashion.
You buy the pants, the dress, shirts, the suits, the neckwear.
But in particular I'm talking about the coordinated collection sportswear
in venues. The styling is perfect, the fits a generous,
the design to make you feel comfortable. Not only are
in your body by the fit, but in your head.

(31:24):
Van Using sport collections are one of my favorite to
this day. And believe me, I'm involved when I see
the lines. If I don't like them, I call the
principles of the company and say what are you doing?
But I don't have to do it because that taste
level is right. If you want to buy affordable men's
clothes that look right, If you're modern, you want to

(31:44):
get dressed for the day and look your part, you
want to go out at night, van Using will work
for you. I am supporting and recommending you go see
van Using Sports JC Penny or online at your favorite stores.
Van Usen a brand that is over as been with
me and I'll always have a soft spot in my
heart for it.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Welcome back to it, always in fashion. Here's your host,
Mark Webber.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
We're talking negotiation and communicating tonight. The name of the
show exactly is The Bat Beside My Bed. I'll be
getting to that in a few minutes, but for now,
I want to talk to you about something I mentioned
at the opening, bullying in business. I have a story
that I'm not very proud of telling you, but I'm
going to tell you. At one particular time, I was
president of the company and we were doing really well,

(32:34):
and I went to the head of marketing for the company.
I told him, let's arrange a trip and a sales
convention at an off site location. I'm thinking it was
winter time. Let's go down to Miami. I'm sure we
can find a place down there and treat our people right.
Let them have a great time. I never heard of
Key Biscayne, Florida, but my guys did, and they set

(32:55):
up this beautiful, beautiful hotel that had a main building
and had bungalows. We were on the water where. Fortunately,
because I was the president, I got to stay. We
entertained in the bungalows, We had outdoor dinners. We had
amazing time and it was great for all the people.
Of course, when you have business meetings that are off site,
their business meetings, and then they'll accomplish a great deal.

(33:16):
In the mornings, the afternoons, we had a whole lot
of fun. The last day you'd give off, but we
were in the throes of explaining what's going on in
the company, showing our merchandise, teaching our sellers how to
sell it, answering all the questions, and making sure that
we were set to have a great season. One night
I'll never forget, we called a pool party. It was

(33:40):
business casual. Everyone was to show up in their best clothes.
We were going to have an outdoor event, a barbecue,
and it was really really sensational. The women all look great.
We all had a little bit of a tan because
we were in Miami for a while. We're all dressed
in the nines and we all had what would be
amazing night, all this great cracked crab and stone crabs

(34:05):
and lobsters. It was amazing. We knew how to live
at the time. Anyway, The pool party was just that
it was a party around the pool, and we had
at the time eight regional sales managers covering different territories
in the around the country. I think I can remember it.
We had New York, we had Florida, we had Texas,
we had California North, California South, we had the Midwest

(34:29):
and Ohio, and we had Atlanta. I don't know if
that ended up to eight, but we had a whole
bunch of maybe Washington, d C. There were some big
stores there as well. And I'll never forget at the
beginning of the party, we all stood around and me
as the president, my head of sales, executive VP, and
the eight regional managers were there and we were talking

(34:50):
and everyone was having a great time. Beers, a little
drink here and there, and everyone's having a great guy.
My executive VP was a great guy, very boisterous guy.
Thought he was very funny, and he was he was
the kind of guy you wanted to be around all
the time. I really enjoyed his company and we were
all out there, and then at one point the music
came on and he did a hip bump on one

(35:14):
of our sales manager's vice president and pushed him into
the pool. The guy was dressed brilliantly. He was one
of those guys who cared very much about the way
he looked. He was very particular. I'll never forget he
was wearing Colehan. I forget the kind of shoes, but

(35:37):
exactly he was wearing great shoes, and he was wearing
a Cardier tank watch with a leather strap. I realized
this afterwards. And he got thrown in the pool and
he was shocked by it. He was visibly shocked. And
what did I do? I laughed. I thought it was hysterical.

(35:59):
He came out the pool, he was not himself. He
was a different person. He was extraordinarily uncomfortable, embarrassed, and
shell shocked that a corporate function such as this that
would happen to him. He disappeared to go change, dry off,

(36:22):
do whatever it is he needed to do, and we
were all laughing and thinking how funny that was. I
didn't set the right example. When he came back, he
wasn't the same. You know, he said he ruined his watch,
his shoes were gone, you know, they were ruined, and
he didn't think it was funny. And I remember, I

(36:43):
just didn't behave the right way? And really I talked
about early bullying. The exec VP of the company behaved
like a bully at this guy's expense. He made a
joke and thought it was funny, and this guy laughed
as well. And I was the president of the company.
I should have known better. I'll never forget that story.

(37:09):
I'll never forgive myself for the way I acted. Did
I learn a lesson? Did I learn about how you're
supposed to be a good human being, the responsibilities of
being a good corporate executive, the responsibilities for protecting the
people you're responsible for at work or at home. Did

(37:30):
I learn a lesson about not telling jokes at someone
else's expense. I learned it all. I never forgave myself,
and I think about it even now when I tell
you that story, because it's really important. And I touched
on communication tonight and the bat by my bed. When

(37:51):
I look back, it's too bad he didn't have a
bat because he deserved to have one. And Joe, wherever
you are, if you're listening to this show, I never
forgot you. I never forgot that night. And let me
say sorry to you tonight, and in business and in life,
if you're in a position of leadership, you are to
behave like a leader. And if nothing else, my success

(38:13):
came from my mistakes as much as it came from
whatever I was doing right. And with that, if you're
still here for the final portion of our show, I'll
discuss with you the bat beside my bed. I'll be
back in a minute.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Always in fashion.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
As one of the world's most celebrated fashion designers, Carl
Lagafeld was renowned for his aspirational and cutting edge approach
to style. His unique vision of Parisian shit comes to
America through car Lagafeld Paris. He has women's collections, men's collections,
ready to wear, accessory, shoes and bags. The fashion house
Carlagofeld also offers a range of watches I wear in

(38:52):
premium fragrances. You can explore the car LAGOFL collection at
car Lagofelparis dot com. But it's more than that. No
one love to shop. I love going around and seeing
what's happening and what catches my attention, what would make
me feel good to wear now. I don't wear the
women's wear, obviously, but I can appreciate it and they
look amazing. If you want to look right, you want

(39:13):
to have clothes that fits you well. You want to
look like you're wearing something that's very expensive, that's exclusive
for you and yours. You can find it at very
affordable prices at Macy's, Orcarlagofel dot Comparis. The women's ready
to wear fashion is extraordinary, as well as the handbags
and the shoes. I, for one, wear men's clothes, unlike

(39:35):
my appreciation of women's clothes. I'm a modern guy. I
want to look current. I want to look the way
I want to feel. I go out at night, I'm
in black and Carlagofel is my buddy. Calls are great.
They fit great, and they have little tweaks and touches,
whether it's a stripe on the sleeve or button at
the neck or on the shoulder. There's a lot of
details that go into Carlagothel because he's always been, he

(39:57):
always had been one of the world's great design and
this legacy and goes on and on. I can't speak
enough about it except to say to you, you want
to feel good about yourself. You want to know that
you're dressing properly. You want to clothes that fits you well.
Carl lagafeld Paris, Carl Lagofeldparis dot com. I love Polar fleece.

(40:18):
It's lightweight, takes colors beautifully, It's comfortable, keeps you warm,
and even if it's warm out, it doesn't hamper you.
It doesn't make you perspire. I love Polar fleas. I
also love sweatshirts and sweatpants, love them, love them, love them.
I'm a big fan of khaki pants and a big
fan of a golf clothes, and I'm a big fan

(40:39):
of Izid. I used to be the head of Iszide.
In fact, my company bought it and out of bankruptcy,
and the CEO of the company asked me to come
in and fix it. And he said to me, Mark,
the future of the company's in your hands. Can you
do this? And I said, I will do it. I
put everything, my heart and soul into making eyes On
the powerhouse that it is today. Now. I left a

(40:59):
long time and the company just continues to thrive. Isaot
is one of the great sweater makers, pant make a
shirt makers, knit shirt makers, Polo shirt makers. They're incredible company.
The colors are great, the fabrics are great. Guys, you
ever wonder what you should wear, I'll make it easy
for you. If you're going to be casual, go in
and look at ISOT. Now that doesn't say that they

(41:19):
don't have dress shirts and they don't have suits. Go
find them. Isaot is a collective brand that offers lifestyle
apparel to everyone in America. And it's true, it's a
fun brand, but it's also priced at fun prices everyone
can afford it. I love this brand. Of all the
brands that I'm involved with, and you can name them,
think about PVH and LVMH and all the brands, ISAOD

(41:40):
is the one that's most personal to me because I
was involved in crafting the future of this brand. The
clothes are great, fall is great, They're doing well. Isod
dot com, isaotat jcpenny. Go look for it. I think
you're going to be very happy. And ladies, those of
you the shopping for the guys in your lives, take
a look. I think they'll be very happy with your choice.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
I thought for men, welcome back to it. Always in fashion,
here's your host.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Mark Webber usually talk about other people when it comes
to human nature, but tonight I'm going to talk about me.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Uh oh.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Tonight's show is entitled The Bat Beside My Bed, And
if you've been listening, I've been stalling it till now
to tell you the story. This is a story of
human nature. It's a story about vanity. When I was
a young man, I had success early. I worked real hard,

(42:38):
I worked real smart. I did a lot of things right.
I appreciated everyone around me, and I was learning, absorbing
and getting smart. Somewhere along the way got to my
head a bit started thinking. My head got big. I
don't know how I got it. In the pillow at night,
it was so big. I was such a smart guy.

(42:58):
I was so full of myself. My wife has always
tried to keep me in balance, and she did a
pretty good job of it. But one day I was
doing really, really well. I was the president of the
then largest shirt company in America, young president, thirty four
years old. I was making money, I had prestige. Everybody

(43:22):
wanted a piece of me, and I was really feeling it.
And I came home one day to my wife and
I said, we're buying a big house. My wife looked
at me and she said, no, we're not. Yep, I said, listen,
we've been living here since we're married. I'm flying, I'm flying,

(43:43):
I got a big job. We're making money. I want
to buy a big house. And she said, no, I'm not.
I said, maybe I'm not talking clear enough. Is this?
Mike gone, hello, I want a big house. We're doing gray.
What are you talking about. We're happy here, we don't
need a big house. We're independent, we're in control of

(44:05):
our lives. We can afford to do anything we want
to do. We're not buying a big house. That's what
you say, I want to buy a big house. So
that was the conversation we had. I kid you not.
One week later, November seventeenth, at four point thirty pm,

(44:26):
I got called into the then CEO of the company,
and in his office was the president of the company,
and they asked to speak to me. I sat down
and say, hey, guys, what's going on? Said, we have
something that we want to share with you. We have
a new opportunity in the company, and we're going to
make you a corporate vice president of marketing and product development,

(44:53):
and you're going to relinquish your title and your responsibility
as president of the shirt company. You guys kidding. I'm
not giving up that job. I love being president of
the shirt company. Maybe you're not being clear here, Mark,
you are no longer the president of the shirt company.

(45:16):
You are now vice president of corporate Marketing and product Development.
I said, we don't have anybody doing that. Says we do. Now.
I'm literally shell shocked. Was that a demotion? See? Here's
the thing. It didn't feel like a promotion. And I said, well,

(45:39):
who works for me? Your assistant Judy? I said, what
who else? That's it? Silence? Silence, I mean the tears
started rolling down my eyes. I said, guys, what's going
on here? Said look, Mark, we have our reasons. And
at the time he's said at it to me. He said, look,

(46:03):
I have a vision for outlet stores in America. There's
only a few of them out there right now, but
they're going to grow. It's a way for manufacturers like
ourselves to have a direct link to the consumers. Says,
you know we have them, you know how profitable they are.

(46:23):
What started in reading Pennsylvania began, Oh, let me tell
you a story about atlets. You want to hear a
little about outlets.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
I can always go for a good outlet story.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Okay, there was a period in time that we would
make shirts, and at the time Larry Phillips Phillips Venues
and got crazy because we would have seconds. When you manufacture,
you have defects. Sometimes it's the sewing on the seam.
Sometimes it's a little hole in the fabric. They'll call
factory defects. And when you went to sell them, if

(46:53):
the shirt costs four dollars to manufacture, you can only
sell them for two dollars because they would defect, even
though in retail you would sell them for twelve dollars.
He was crazy how much money we would lose on
selling the defects. And he started by going to the
head of manufacturing. He says, this isn't a defect, and
they would push back, yes it is, and they refused

(47:13):
him manufacturing to label them first they were seconds, and
it drove them crazy. So there was a town in Reading, Pennsylvania.
We had a retail guy that was running a few
retail stores for the company. He said, you know what
went to Larry philp said, Larry, we were to put
these shirts in one of those little centers. There's a
building in Ready, Pennsylvania. They put up these direct to retail,

(47:34):
which is outlet stores. They called them manufacturers retail stores
at the time, and people started putting their brands in.
So at the time we went there, we put our
shirts in the store and they blew out. They sold
for five dollars. We were getting two. It costs four
to make, and we were selling them at five dollars.

(47:55):
So this huge loss we got for a year's worth
of discounted second, we were now making money selling him
instead of losing all that money. And Larry and the
retail guy got crazy how successful this was. They couldn't
believe it. The head of retail, this fellow named Jim,
went to Larry one day and said, Larry, I got
to tell you something. The only people walking in a

(48:16):
women they're buying all these shirts for men. If you
let me find some women's product to put in the store,
they're there anyway. Let me find some blouses, let me
find some skirts, let me find some products for women,
and see what happens. Lo and behold, reading Pennsylvania, this
little store thousand square feet selling men's seconds, making a profit.
So that's putting in women's tops, sweaters, blouses, and they

(48:39):
fly out of the store. Unbelievable results. And the retail
fellow said to Larry, you know his name is Jim.
He said. Jim said to Larry, you know what, Larry,
they're coming in any way. I don't know how many
shirt sales were missing. If we had regular shirts here,
we'll sell the seconds for five and we'll sell the

(49:01):
regular shirts that we would sell in a regular department
store fifteen or twenty dollars, we'll sell them here at
a discount. Instead of fifteen or twenty. We'll sell them
for twelve of cost US four will make a lot
of money. Lo and behold. They put in regular shirts,
they had the discount shirts, they had the women's product,
and the business boomed. And there was a discussion, and

(49:24):
that was the advent of outlet retailing in America, which
is now a phenomenon I'll never forget. Larry Phillips takes
me and my boss to meet with Lou Frankfort, who
is Louf Frankfort. He was the chairman and CEO of Coach.
This was one of those meetings that could tell me
I make you uncomfortable. He goes to this guy Coach

(49:44):
and says to the guy, a coach, listen, you make
product in the United States. You're making these handbakes, you
have to be Seconds. I'm developing this business. We call
it the outlet business. There are other people in the
manufacturing outlet business. We need more great brands in there,
because if we could brands, great brands in the center,
more and more people will come. We'll be able to
build these centers all over the country we want. Coach

(50:07):
lu Frank has said, do you understand who you're talking to.
We're a luxury man. We don't want to sell in outlets.
I'd rather burn my Seconds than sell them in an
outlet store and weaken my brand. I was one of
the most uncomfortable things in my life. You know, sometimes
brilliant guys do things that nobody else can see. Fast

(50:29):
forward ten years later, Coach has a billion dollar outlet business.
Ralph Laurren has billions of dollars. Everyone is in the
manufacturing business. As a brand is in outlet stores, everyone,
no exceptions. And it all started with Seconds in Pottsville,
Pennsylvania that was shipped to Reading, Pennsylvania. Now I just

(50:53):
told you that story because of vanity. I was the
head of the shirt business, et cetera, et cetera. I
was doing great, and one day I wake up and
I'm no longer the president of the shirt company. It
was very discouraging. But why did I tell the outlet
store story? Because they asked me to go in and
develop an entire product development and sourcing network to supply

(51:15):
what was supposed to be three thousand stores, and me
and my assistant, Judy and no one else, we're now
in this job. This did not feel like a promotion.
I went home that night with my new found raise,
my new corporate title, and a disappointment that is hard

(51:40):
to explain. I was so down, and I went in
and I told my wife. I said, Sue, and I
could believe what happened to me. She says, what are
you okay? I said, yeah, I just got what it
feels like a demotion And she said, you scared me.
I thought it was something important. That's yep, she knows

(52:02):
the priorities, he said. She listened. I said, I told
her what happened. She said, you still want to buy
a house? I said, hold that thought for a second.
I left her. I went into a garage. I found
my baseball bat. I wrote it back and I said

(52:24):
to Susie. Susie see this bat, I'm going to leave
it next to the bed, right near the headboard. If
I ever walk in here again and tell you I
want to buy a new house, just take the bat,
hit me in the head with it, and leave me
on the floor. Vanity is my favorite sin. People out there,

(52:45):
that's a lesson in human nature. Know who you are.
Don't get carried away with your own fame. Don't believe
your own press clippings. Hope you enjoyed that story. I
didn't at the time, but I do tell it now
and for your information. Not only did I build a
huge business for the company, I eventually won back my presidency.

(53:07):
Tonight's stories turned out to be a little lesson in humility,
some mistakes along the way, and some fun things that
Jesse and I chose to shoot the breeze with you.
I had a good time as usual here at night
talking to you out there. I hope you enjoyed the show.
We'll look forward to seeing you soon. This is Mark

(53:27):
Weber and Jesse Webber. We'll be back next week.