February 6, 2025 • 50 mins
Charli xcx's carefree 2024 breakthrough album, BRAT, was one of the defining cultural moments of last year and likely changed Charli's career forever.
But was BRAT's GRAMMY-winning success ironic or the result of a genious marketing masterplan?
Dominique embraced BRAT over the summer, while Andrew only heard it for the first time in preparation of this episode. We discuss the beginning and end of Brat Summer, how the gay community elevated Charli to bonafide popstar status and attempt to nail down what makes this album so compelling.
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
Connect with us on Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast.
(Episode 24)
But was BRAT's GRAMMY-winning success ironic or the result of a genious marketing masterplan?
Dominique embraced BRAT over the summer, while Andrew only heard it for the first time in preparation of this episode. We discuss the beginning and end of Brat Summer, how the gay community elevated Charli to bonafide popstar status and attempt to nail down what makes this album so compelling.
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
Connect with us on Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast.
(Episode 24)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, Welcome to ad First listen, This is Andrew, this
is Dominie, and today we're talking about Charlie XCX's BRAT album,
The Record of the Summer, right.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
My favorite album of the year.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So you picked this album from me. I'd never heard it.
I don't know if you knew that.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I didn't know that. I figured you couldn't avoid hearing it.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
This is one of those things where I think a
lot of people like me have heard about this record
all the time for the past six seven months, and
we're not really sure if we know, like what people
are really talking about where this is concerned. Like, the
(00:57):
cover was probably the most iconic part of it, and
for me, as a straight white man, it was like, Okay,
this is what everybody who is not in my demographic
is way into right now. The Yeah, the blue and
black cover was everywhere, and the green and black I
(01:20):
don't know colors now, but it's between Christmas and New
Year's I haven't been using my brain a lot, so
green and black that covers everywhere. For a while, I'm like,
do I know any of the music from this? Is
this anywhere? Because I was familiar with Charlie XCX before
(01:42):
but this was definitely a breakthrough in a different way
for her.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, so I've never been a Charlie XCX fan. I
feel like my relationship to her earlier music was very
similar to your relationship with Bratt, which is like when
there would be big hits, I would hear them, but
I wouldn't connect it with her necessarily as an artist.
(02:09):
But when this album came out, I was in the
middle of a road trip, so I think that it
was very much a time where I was like ready
to listen to whole albums and I kind of just
couldn't avoid it. On TikTok, all the girlies were sampling it,
(02:32):
and I think I I think I actually finally listened
to it when there was when I watched a video
essay about it, about all the lore, and I was like, Okay,
I have to listen now. And it's such a short
album and the songs are all like really short and snappy,
(02:53):
like it's so easy to listen to it over and
over again.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, it's like forty one minutes the whole way through
a lot of two three minute tracks. There might only
be like one three minute track, Like it's very brief
for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, the songs are over before you know it.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
The thing that I think that is so intriguing about
this record and why I was glad that you picked it,
was Charlie XCX has had so many hits, but not
really with her name on the front. You know, she's
a feature on a lot of records. There's Boom Clap right,
which was from so long ago? Like that was so
(03:33):
long ago. I didn't I don't think I was aware
of that song when it came out. I was aware
of it. After Iggy Azalea's Fancy, It's like, oh, it's
the girl from that song, like what is that? Okay?
And then there was the iconopop record, and then not
that much before the past couple of years, and then
she finally has probably a record that she never thought
(03:55):
that she would have in terms of the impact that
it made. Do you think it is fair to say
that she's now a gay icon?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes and no? Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
So interesting thing about that is I would say gay icon.
But like, so, I was in Texas this summer and
I was doing my own thing, right, and I got
really into Charlie XCX. Really I got into brat. But
then when my friends, when I got back to New York,
and I asked my like New York queer friends.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
They were like, it was more of like a white gay.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Guy kind of thing, almost more like Lady Gaga or
even like Taylor Swift or Lana del Rey kind of.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Like the I would.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Say, yes, gay icon, but like not a queer icon,
which is more like where I would find myself.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's where the cool kids hang, which like it was.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Just funny because I was like expecting all my friends
to be on the same page, like brat Summer. Yes,
we know all the songs, we know all the words
get into it, and they were like, it wasn't really
on my radar. Like I kind of saw it and
it kind of seemed corny, and so I just didn't
listen to it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But it's one of those things where it's like.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Maybe you're perceiving people at their most annoying, but like
that's not representational of her real audience. Okay, So I
was just kind of surprised that I think it was
very internet mm hmm. I think like that's where I
got it was seeing people do the trends on TikTok,
(05:44):
watching the videos all the lore, and she is like
a total internet artist, like she was like MySpace.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That era was when a lot of like og fans.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay, that makes sense because I've had this perception of
her as someone who's starts super young, and she's only
like in her early thirties at this point, So for
her to have dated back to the MySpace era makes
a lot of sense when she probably was a teenager herself.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, she talks about her parents dropping her off at
the raves to perform when she was like fifteen.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So you mentioned brat summer. To have a phrase, like
an adjective that transcends your music is a kind of
a big deal. Listening to the record, and we'll get
in the next segment to like some of the highlights
of the tracks, But like listening to the record, the
term brat is not like a heavy handed theme. I
(06:42):
heard it in there's at least one mention of it,
and then obviously it's the album. But from how you
experienced it, like when did people start using that adjective.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So definitely the adjective or.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Verb sometimes verb, Right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's a a brat to be a brat, I think
it's a I think it's a noun.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Actually, Well, if it's a brat summer, then brat is
modifying summer.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
True.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Okay, so it's both an adjective and a noun. And
because like.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Being, I'm just trying to make sure I don't sound
like a huge ideo.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, you know, be careful because oh, I think this
is where the this is the really important stuff to
talk about. Is brat a verb or a noun? I
think a brat, like a brat is a person you
can be. You can be brat, which would be adjective,
(07:41):
like you can like being brat. It's like a state
of mind. Yeah, and then that would fit into brad summer.
But I feel like there is also an element of
like British speaking patterns.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, that I that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Like, I don't use that is coming into play there,
But I can't say for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That is one of the things that is always I
don't know if it's a novelty to me, there is
something about this accent that is works very well in music.
To me, I like hearing that a little bit, you know,
because like the Beatles, Elton John, like a lot of
(08:25):
the classic British artists more or less sang with American accents.
Paul Rodgers from Bad Company is a great example of that,
where you're surprised when he actually speaks because he doesn't
sound English at all. Freddie Mercury, I guess had a
bit of an accent, but still like hearing people kind
of embrace their accent in the music as part of
(08:48):
why the nineteen seventy five is so interesting. All these
like post rock bands like The Smiths and The Cure
and stuff like. You still don't hear it all the time,
but it does make it a little like, I don't know, exotic.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I'm so curious. Maybe this is a stretch, but I
wonder if autotune has any relationship with that, because I
feel like part of the reason that accents come out
or don't come out is because of like you need
to use a certain certain vowel sounds to get the
(09:25):
notes to sound good, and so like, I wonder if
the fact that.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Like autotune is liberating accents.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, I'm so curious about that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Right, because if someone's a classically trained singer like you,
if you're singing opera or something, you're trained to say
those ease and odds with a certain inflection, because that
is I think, I think, because that is how to
get the note to ring more truly with a with
(09:58):
a more precise pick, But.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That will have to We'll have to think we do.
And I agree.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I think I love hearing the accent, and I definitely
hear Brett like that's so Brett. I hear it in
her accent. But I think it also fits into like
a wider culture of young women, you know gen Z
Millennials like claiming space and claiming like cute vibes, girly vibes,
(10:38):
and like asking for what we want and like not
caring if we come off as like bitches or brats.
People were just ready for that word to name it.
She added this element of like club culture that the
the gen Z's, the like COVID generation really wanted and
(11:02):
didn't connect with. Like the reason I was able to
connect with it right away is because I like listen
to techno and club music, and I have some of
the same artists that I like as Charlie. Like that,
I feel like I identify with her more than I
(11:25):
identify with other like Charlie XCX fans.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Interesting, but it was much more. It was much more like.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Digestible than a lot of the more underground like queer
music that she references like Sophie.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh yeah, I want to ask you about that. So
let's do this. Let's take a break, we'll come back.
I want to talk more about this club culture connection.
I want to talk about autotune. I want to talk
about some of the great moments from BRAT that's acts
on AFRIS Listen. And we're back on Afris's Listen. My
(12:19):
name is Andrew Dominique and we're still talking about Brat here.
So Dominique, you mentioned auto tune in the intro. One
of the things that I really liked about Brat was
the way her voice is treated like another instrument in
(12:40):
the mix, like it's electronic music and its electronic record.
The only thing that is like acoustic or organic is
her voice. But it's really treated with the tuning and
with the effects like it's a synth. And that also
makes the album feel not so pop. It does feel
(13:01):
more connected to like a rave culture. Not that I
know anything about that. Is that how you interpreted it?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yes, I hadn't thought about that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I will say like in that way, I did notice
that like aspect, but I didn't I didn't think it
wasn't pop as much because of it. But I totally agree,
especially not current pop, Like it's almost more like like
a G six I feel like exists in the same
(13:32):
world as this, well a classic from the odds or
the twenty tens. But I definitely think that there's this
like almost DIY vibe to it, even though it's I
don't it's not DIY, like she's an established musician. Yeah,
But same with the album cover, Like there there's that
(13:58):
democratization of music with like having auto tune and being
able to to produce all these different elements of an
album or meat of a song without having to be
like the best singer ever or the best whatever or
even an okay singer, Yeah, and being able to just
(14:20):
bring that like personality and fun to it. The lyrics
are definitely super super clubby in the way that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
They repeat a lot. They are about partying.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Right. There's there's two songs on the record that are
explicitly about doing cocaine.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yes, yes, which I I which is by the way,
also the first track is the first of those two.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And then the last track is kind of this one
but just like more about doing cocaine.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Right, Yeah, what is that like?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Is that like that riff ding Ding didn't do, Like
I feel like that has to be from somewhere or
is it just like that you that like stuck in
my head already.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, it's like I feel like she plays in the
conventions of this type of music and whether or not
she's a great singer. Like the cool thing about this
record is the album's not about that. It's like it's
bratt If I could say, like she doesn't care.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, Like it's very clear.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
In the lyrical theme of the record in the album cover,
which is like a pixelated word document that like, she
does not care if you like it or not, if
you think she's a good singer or not, if you
think the music is good, the lyrics are good. It's
just very as it is. And maybe that's part of
(15:50):
why people lash onto it so much.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Well, it's like if the girlies who get it get
it right? Do you know that quote? No, So this
is like it's there's a whole world around it, so
like in this in that well yes, that.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
But that's that's what got me into this record as
much as I did, because I could feel that there
was this was like the tip of the iceberg or
something that there was a lot behind all of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So continue, Yes, it's this song where she's like, I'm
so we're talking about Yeah, I'm so Julia, right, you
know who Julia is? So Julia is Julia Fox. Do
you know who Julia Fox is? So that's why it's
like so crazy. The algorithms really like put us in
(16:38):
separate worlds quickly. Julia Fox is just like a cool
fashion girlie who dated Kanye. She was like the hot
lady in Uncut Gems and she's just like been it girl.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
For a minute.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And she she there's one quote where she was on
some podcast and people were like, why do you dress
like that or something like that, and she's like the
girlies who get it get it, the one girlies who don't,
the people who don't don't something like that. And then
so she's saying, I'm so Julia three sixty. It's basically
saying like I'm everywhere, Like Julia Fox is just everywhere
(17:17):
and like everywhere all the time, all around the world.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I'm so Julia right, so three sixty being wherever you look. Yeah,
And it was almost prophetic that this would be the
first song and the album would take off like it did.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So true.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
It's it's it's like weird to wrap my head around
her not being this person when she wrote the album. Yeah,
but it's almost it's like something that I think a
lot of us can identify with as artists, is like
we know we're that person, and we're just trying to
show it to the world so that we're all on
(17:56):
the same page. And she really did that. And then
she also that's the thing, is is it prophetic or
is it just her grand design that worked, because like
I don't know if you checked out any of the videos,
but the videos are a huge part of it. She
(18:17):
has all the IT girls in the videos.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Like I had the thought during one of the listens
that the album kind of comes out as if it's
a soundtrack to a film or like like an installation.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Almost totally like she I mean, she did this whole
crazy worldwide campaign with the like rat wall that changed,
like I don't know if it was every day or
every week, but it kept changing, and I think it
was in soho okay, and there was a whole world
around it. Yeah, and just like all the Internet girls
(18:53):
were in the videos and that was like a part
of it. So she she made it the moment she
like she got every all the cool people that anyone
looks up to, like any of the people who would
be fans of her album, they were all featured in
the album. It was very like some genius marketing was
(19:15):
the theme of this as well, and her like embracing
being that was a big part of this this album. Actually,
we want to talk about the next.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Song club classes.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, club classics. When I go to the club, I
want to hear those club classics. And she's like, I
want to dance to meet that's like the first and
then she names all these other artists, George yea, Sophie, Sophie, Yeah,
I would to dance with. She says a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
There's a lot of first names, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes, and like any yeah, if you.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Have no chance of being able to.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
De dupe, I I have guesses. But not really.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It was like her her claiming that she is a
part of that even if she isn't known to the mainstream,
like that's why she's a club classic.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah. There's such an awareness to this album. I think
there's one track where she basically just talks about her
career and it's she basically describes my perception of her
career that she's like not really that famous, and then
she's sort of wrestling with whether or not that's okay
(20:33):
or whether she wants to be more famous, and of
course she got much more famous.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, I think it's rewind Rewind, Yeah, which that was
a song that I really connected with. It was like
not one of the big hits, so it took a second. Yeah,
I guess it doesn't matter if we don't wander so
rewind she's talking about, Yeah, how she's wrestling with that.
(21:01):
I was thinking the same thing, that that's like an
obvious connection to make with what we're talking about, that
she like knows her influence, but she has maybe regrets
about just like being letting her insecurities hold her back.
And that's been a big theme in my life.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
So I talked to my friends about it, and we
are a lot of us identified with that of like
just wishing that we didn't let our insecurities stop us,
like wanting to be too cool or wanting to be
something and then realizing that you were already that you
(21:45):
were you were gonna be cool, and like that wasn't
that wasn't worth waiting on and but like we still
have those insecurities and we're still wrestling with it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It's the type of conceit you wouldn't expect from an
EDM record. Honestly, totally.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
That's like and that's why it's so cool, is like
she brings all that stuff together like she it's like
it's not it's also not pop like I do. There
is an element with like any any music that gets big,
anything that gets big, you're not allowed to break the
(22:25):
is it like breaking the fourth wall. You're not allowed
to say like I hate this. Like you can say anything.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, you can.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Say like I hate my life, I hate myself, I
hate everything in the world, but like you can't be
like the music industry itself is terrible and I wish
I wasn't doing this and I'm really confused about it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
This is maybe not worth it.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, exactly. But then it is like a lot of poetry.
And that's funny because like on Girls So Confusing, the remix,
which I don't know if you listened to.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
So No I did not one of the things that
I liked about this record. As I listened to it
the first couple of times, I was like, oh, cool,
there's no features on this record, And then I came
to find out just scrolling a little bit down, there's
a version of the record that is entirely features and
there's like a million people on every song.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yes, and it's so confusing.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yes, yeah, like they can't even fit all the names
in the Like it's a three sixty featuring this person,
this person, but there's more people than that on the track.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah. No, because she came.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It was like it felt like a lot of these
songs were kind of directed towards other artists. I mean,
that was definitely that was one hundred percent Well people
say it was one hundred percent dedicated to Lord, Okay,
it was, but there's other people that it could be
also about. But like it is, there's like all of
(23:59):
this lore between Charlie and Lord that like they look similar.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, that that song also, when you listen to it,
sounds like it's about a specific person, and I was
trying to think about who that would be. That makes
a lot of sense that would be Lord.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
It's about Lord because they look kind of the same
and they both have accents. Lord is like from New Zealand, though,
I think, and the world basically, Yeah, yeah, but there's
like a there's a video it's like an iconic I
don't know if it's iconic, but it's a meme. There's
a video of Charlie getting interviewed and the interviewer thinks
(24:36):
that she's Lord and she's like mixing them up. Oh no,
and then Charlie just like pretends that she is Lord.
She's like Royal. They're like Royal's was a big song, right,
She's like, yeah, it was. And she talks about how
like you like writing poems and I like throwing parties,
(24:58):
and it's funny because these are also poetic. It's like
also about her wanting to be that other type of
artist as well and doing that with this album, but
still being her club self.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah. I think this is a rare album that like
really gets going halfway through Sympathy is a Knife and
I might say something stupid or tracks three and four,
they're both like slower tempo songs, like you wouldn't necessarily
think that that's going to fit into like a DJ
set at a club, whereas it kind of starts off like, oh,
(25:39):
this is gonna be just like full on dance record,
and then it has like there's ballads on this album
and then from like Von Dutch on till the second
to last track, it's basically all dance music with maybe
a couple moments that are a bit lower.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, it is. It's really funny how you're totally right
about that. Von Dutch was definitely the first song that
I got into.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Like that was. I listened to that song.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Like a hundred times before I started listening to the album.
It was like a viral song, but I I thought
that it was Kim Petris okay at first, for like
no reason. I think it was just like in my head,
I was like, this is Kim Petris, which like totally
is like in the same world as her and it.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
So it was one of those where like you realize
that you're kind of obsessed with this one song and
you're like, I should really just check out the whole album.
There might be more of this one.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
And so like I would listen to Von Dutch first
and then listen to the rest of the album and
then start back up at the beginning because it ends
so fast that you're like, oh, let me just I
missed it, Like, let me just start again. So and
I definitely think it took me a while before I
like really paid attention to sympathies a knife. Even Club
(27:05):
Classics is like, I don't know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It seems like it's for a specific kind of person, right.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
It's also like, because it's called club Classics, I feel
like it should be more of a club classic.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, it kind of gets going and then it immediately stops.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yes, Yes, I feel like she she hits us with
three sixty at the beginning, so you're like, I have
to listen to that obviously. That's like also the most
viral Okay song Okay three sixty and Vonda Dutch were
both really big. I think there was more like trends
about I'm so Julia.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And it's also that like what is it? What do
you call it?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Is there a name when like just different multiple artists
collab to like get each.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Other's clout hmmm, cloud mountain.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, I don't know that's a good term for it.
But like referencing Julia, like in the first in the
first couple of songs, she's referencing these other like popular
people that all like also respect her as an artist,
but that she respects, but they don't know her. Probably
they don't know each other, so she's like kind of
inviting them in and then she hits us with like
(28:18):
I'm sad.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Guys, but for real, I'm sad.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Like Okay, that was fun, but like listen to this also,
like I'm not feeling like I'm all that, Like I'm
referencing all of you people, maybe because i feel like
I need you guys to support me and I need
you to know that I'm going through stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And then she hits you with von Dutch. That's like
just one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I don't know if girl power is just a dated term,
but it's like it's just very like I'm the best
and you're corny and you're poor.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Also like it's like a little bit of.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Like I'm getting money, you get mad because the bank shit.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
But she's it's sort of just like you have to
go to.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
The ATM and it's closed. I don't know, I don't know,
but it's not trying to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Right, because vulnerability is not something you associate with.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
A rave No, well, not vulnerability definitely like escapism.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, yeah, you can definitely see lasers and like five
machines for most of this album. In Your in Your
mind Palace.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yes, which is I think another thing that was really
iconic about it, which was that it doesn't have that esthetic.
All the videos are very daytime outside, like a lot
of it's outside. A lot of it's like very daytime,
which I think makes you look a second time because
you're like, this is different, like because they're wearing club
(29:50):
outfits and they're doing club things, but it's like it's
like different setting.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Interesting. So it's like the Texas Change saw Massacre of EIGHTML.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You could say that. I maybe wouldn't, but.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I think the biggest hit from this record is Apple.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, yeah, because it has the dance.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
There's a specific dance.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
There's a dance, and I like never learned it, but
I also still know it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think it's like and there was a viral dance
that was really easy.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Okay, I just like never learn those because I know
I wish I did, but I mean I have. It's fine.
It's not locked in. Yeah, I know it enough. It's
the Apple, But.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
That song is that song.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
It has the dance and then she like would do
the dance all the time.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Is she a dancer?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
No? No, okay, that's her old thing.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
She doesn't care like you were saying before, like I
meant to say regarding the auto tune thing, and like
I feel like that fits in with like she's not
a typical pop star, like she is an artist.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, and it's a holistic sort of career approach.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, and she so like she hopes. She hosted SNL
and did you watch that? I did not, So I
didn't watch the whole episode, but I watched some of
the some of the skits, and her monologue super inspiring.
And her monologue is basically about auto tune. She's like,
(31:29):
autotune is great because you can like say anything you
want and it sounds good. And so she's doing it
through auto tune and she's like saying, like I you know,
I hate you. I'm going to break up with you,
and like you don't have to try, you don't have
like it just sounds good no matter what. And I
think that also fits in with her as a dancer,
(31:53):
Like I really identify with her, and the SNL episode
actually solidified that even more, as like she dances, she's
not a dancer.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
She sings.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She probably wouldn't call herself a singer, you know, like
Sabrina Carpenter I'm a singer. She's much more than a singer,
but like you said, she doesn't need to be. She
moves around and she walks around cutely, like you know,
there's this expectation of musicians to be like moving all
(32:30):
over the place doing choreography while singing, and she's like
doing this whole performance that's really herself, you know. Like
in contrast, and like Beyonce or Taylor Swift, who are
well Beyonce especially, she does so much, but she has
that distance from her audience and her fans, whereas Charlie.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Is, like Beyonce is trying to win a gold medal
in every event.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yes, yes, yes, But Charlie, it's like so much personality
and like you're at the party with her, like you
feel like you're yeah with her in it.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
And if we're doing choreo all night, we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Get tired, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
All right, let's take a break and we'll come back
and we'll wrap up this episode of At First Listen,
And we're back on at First Listen. I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique,
(33:32):
and we're wrapping it up with Brats. What's your favorite
track on this record?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
I have to say current, I really like Mean Girls
okay as every great as it is with every great
album I have gone through phases.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, so Mean Girls is kind of going up in
my rankings of this record. First time through, I didn't
really like the song because it was it seemed kind
of a tired sentiment. And then listening to it today,
I like that song more.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
What made you resonate with it more now?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think there's a level of comfort that you get
from listening to an album multiple times and you feel
a bit more connected to what the artist is trying
to do, and that it's not a typical like bad girl,
do what you want kind of song. It's it's a
(34:33):
little bit deeper than that. But also it's it's only
so deep because it is at this point in the record,
it's like we're back to having fun again.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That makes sense to me, I don't.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah, it took me a second to even like, really
pick it up on my radar as well. I think
that part of what made me get into it was
the presidential election and her association with it with Kamala,
like endorsing Kamala and.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Oh I didn't know she actually endorsed Kamala Yeah. I
just heard Kamala is brat like a billion times.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
She like she did, okay, And did she.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Say the phrase Kamala is brat?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I don't know. I do not know.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I think that was just created. And there was like
there was remixes of I don't remember which song it was,
but there was a remix of one of her songs
that included the like do you think you fell out
of a coconut tree? It was like turned into one song.
It was really good, mean girls, I think there it
(35:42):
was really that vibe of like if you think, I mean,
if you think I am a bitch, that's your problem,
and actually like yeah, you go ahead and think that
way and just like stay and stay away from me. Yeah,
And it's not really about her feeling like that. It's
(36:02):
about like that's how you think, that's what people see her.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Ass, this is the way people see me, and this
is why I don't care exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think that is cool.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Also, like I see the other girls who come off
that way and I'm like go off, yeah, and like slay,
we get it, and it's it is a wall and
a lot of this is like being vulnerable and then
saying like no, but I'm keeping the wolves up. But
like the girls who get it get it. It was
that vibe with Kama of like people want to be
(36:33):
haters and they succeeded, but I'm not gonna be like
apologetic about this about like, yeah, I like her because
she's a black lady.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Sorry, I don't care.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, and like and then another thing is thinking about
comedy bringing that in Mean Girls is you know, a.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Iconic comm.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Coming of age comedy of mind, Charlie's you know, generation
of girlhood.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Like that's.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Obviously referencing that movie, and the fact that we're adults
now is relevant that like she knows who she's talking to,
and that in that movie, the black characters the only
thing that they do is that the very beginning of
the movie, in the lunch room scene, it's like they're
the unfriendly black hotties moving on.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
That's their whole role.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
And it's so funny because the movie is called The
Mean Girls, but the black girls who only hang out
with each other, that's all they are. They're just unfriendly
and they're hot and they're black, and that they're not
important anymore. Coming from that background and then seeing that
seeing Mean Girls in this context and like it's not
(37:59):
like Charlie. Charlie wouldn't identify probably with that part of it,
but it is I think referencing this part that like
we get described this way by other people and like
we're meant to feel shame about being who we are
(38:20):
putting this like near the end of the album, like Okay,
we've all been partying together, but now maybe we're gonna
even tighten up this crew who's like in on it
with us, And it's very it's so cool because it's
like her talking about it's from her perspective looking at
like other cool girls, Like it doesn't even necessarily seem
(38:41):
like she feels like she's that girl. She's like in
her mid twenties, and she's not in her mid twenties.
Who knows when she wrote this song, but I mean,
I've definitely been that girl, felt like that girl, and it.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Made me feel seen.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
It made me feel like it was okay to feel
like that, and it made me also like join it
feel like I was able to be a part of
something that didn't that I was like alone in before.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
And I like that.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Okay, I think I like it too. That's one of
the ones where it's unclear if it's autobiographical or if
it is a true like third person sort of point
of view, if she if that's another song where it's
a reference to another female pop star who is maybe
(39:31):
not getting positive coverage in the press, because if people
don't know, women get a lot more negative coverage in
the press than men, almost regardless of what they do,
especially in the UK. I on the subway up here
to the studio, listen to the last third of this album,
(39:51):
and I love the way it concludes with this song
about struggling with the idea of because a mother and
how that would affect your career, and how you're happy
for your friends who have children, but you're not sure
if you want that for yourself, and then immediately followed
by a song about dooming cocaine every single day and
(40:13):
going to the club and partying all the time.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I love how, and then like the way that it's
also circling back to the beginning with like three six,
three sixty three sixty five. Yeah, like three sixty circling back.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I meant to figure out what the relationship is musically
between the two songs. I think the lyrics are the
same but the vocals are mixed differently, so it emphasizes
more of the drug references. Could be I could be
a little off base about that, but that's what I
(40:48):
think they are doing here.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
No, there's a lot of similar lyrics. I also like
I was very confused by it at first.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
I know that, like.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
It's oh, Julia is not a part of three sixty five. Okay,
there's like certain things. No, it's like a it's like
gets you.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, and I also.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
It's like an alternate reality version of that first song. Yeah,
it's super interesting. It's not the type of thing that
I would have picked up on one listen, and it's
certainly not the type of thing that I would have
expected from this kind of album.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Right, and I yeah, I really I agree it Like
it's like an it's like an illusion.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
It confuses your brain.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, because you like it if you're not super paying
attention to this record. You like this song out of
familiarity because you just heard it thirty eight minutes ago,
and then you realize that you did hear this song before,
and then you think that, wait, has the album started over?
But no, it hasn't.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Exactly going back to what you said about like thinking
about having kids. I'm thinking about life, you know, passing
you by, and the people around you not you know,
you're all changing, going in different directions.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's also it's.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Her coming back around with that vulnerability that is more
in that first half of the album, and then like
claiming again that she like knows who she is.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Ultimately she's sort of reclaiming her identity as an artist.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Yes, and like as a person I think in the world,
Like that's a lot of this album is kind of
like I said before, she's this well rounded artist, she's
a person, Like she's not trying to appear like a
perfect product, but she's she is wrestling with the idea
(42:51):
that she is doing that, and she.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Does want that.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
She's taking this step into this pop star phase, which
is like a very different existence than where she was before.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yes, and she she's it's also because of her mortality.
She's like, oh, I'm like my young heart. Yeah, I
have to if I want to do my pop girly
moment where people won't like hate on me for wearing
a belly shirt, you know, I have to do it
now basically, and then and then also like the cocaine
(43:24):
like drug element is so funny.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Charlie most likely doesn't.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Do a lot of drugs actually, like I think, but
people who are really seriously into drugs aren't talking about
them like this munch okay in this way, like it's
not like a fun light thing, you know what I mean.
Like she her relationship with it is very much like, yeah,
I'll have a bump here and there, but like I'm
(43:54):
making art mostly I'm just like a part of the scene,
so I am like, that's a part of it. I
thought that was really funny because it is like it
is a motif of this and it is kind of
maybe glamorizing it in a.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Way that I don't know if it's positive. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
I don't know any people that are like that age group.
But there is this conversation of like, let's get the
young kid, not the young kids, the young adults, the
gen z's into the club like they're like online, it's
like this whole thing of their like I want I
(44:32):
saw the clubs on TV growing up or movies, and
now I'm here and it's awkward. Everyone just has their
phones out and nobody dances. And there is this element
of Charlie inviting everybody into this world and trying to
say it's not scary, Like I'm not scary, we're all
(44:53):
we're all just having fun and we're all sad and
maybe we need some escapism. But it's like it's really
about the vibes.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah. Yeah, I think the choice of those final two
tracks back to back is pure comedy. I like that
you've read into it a little bit that maybe we're
not entirely glorifying drugs, but I'm not going to finish
that sentence.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It's a perfect place.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
So we do need to find out how much drugs
Charlie XCX does do, and that'll be a an effortless
investigation with a report to go.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah, I think it was super fun talking about this.
I totally fell in love with this album, and when
you asked me, like, what is a favorite album of mine,
it's It was just the honest answer because I think
(45:55):
it really just yeah, it was just true. It wasn't
it's not something that I think is really cool, but
it's also like gets the moment, but the moment's over,
so it was nice.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
I think when.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Kamala lost Brat, summer was over, that was the now
in the coffin, and we were like, yeah, let's move on.
It's nice to talk about it because I do still
love these songs and I do still hear Apple at
any party I go to, like the girlies are singing it,
the girlies are doing the dance. So I'm happy we
(46:33):
got to really get into it and I could share
it with you. Right.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
I loved this choice at the time. You know, we've
done so many records on the show that I had
really high hopes for stuff that I wasn't familiar with,
and this is one of the ones that really met
my expectations, where like I expected that it would be
fun because people seem to be having a lot of
fun with it, And now I have that added perspective
(46:59):
of the record and I like it, and I agree
that it's very fun.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
That's amazing. Like so many things are over hyped. I
definitely relate to that and like, ugh, it's so hyped up,
like there's no way it can live up to it,
but it actually does because in a way, there's so
much more to it than than the hype.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, so you mentioned Sabrina Carpenter earlier.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah, well we may have to talk about you know,
Sabrina Carpenter and another EP because her her I think
that is like a perfect TikTok.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Song mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
And it was great for her tour and everything. But
she her album that she's nominated.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
For, Short and Sweet.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah, Short and Sweet, Yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
There's a lot of more depth there, Yeah, and it
like if you judge, you could if you just judged,
if you just judged brat By like three sixty or
or Von Dutch ap Apple is a maybe a bit deeper.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, apples one of those exceptions to the modern pop
songs where it is very pop friendly, but also if
you think about what those lyrics are, there's something more
being said about like generational trauma maybe totally so that
after after a few listens and it really makes an
impact on you. That's one of those like little easter
(48:21):
eggs that you're like, oh, this is like a real song.
This is like a real statement.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Totally, and it's also like nonsense. If you're not paying attention,
you're like, what, like I heard the apple fruit is good?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, it's like what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (48:36):
You're like the airport, the airport, the airport, Why like
are you saying apple or airport, like what are you saying?
Like are you talking about New York? Are you talking
about Like what are you literally saying? But then when
you when you look at it, like when you actually
look at the lyrics and then in the context of
the whole album, it doesn't matter if parts of it
don't make sense. It's like just the words yeah, which
(48:58):
like to take us back, you know, to the club,
the club identity. It's like a lot of it is
just sounds that sound good. It doesn't have to make
perfect narrative sense, like a Sabrina Carpenter song needs to
like there's no like you said, there's nothing confusing about it.
You're like, that's let me espress, So I get it.
(49:19):
I know what she means by that. But then it's
also like Apple and all these songs are so short,
Like the way that she uses words and repeats them
but then uses them in different contexts. It makes the
pop thing work. Yeah, you don't. It's not controversial. It
doesn't need to be. But you can. You can make
(49:40):
it deep if.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You want to.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
So we made it pretty deep on this episode. We
will be back next week with another episode. What that
will be on we don't know. But we're gonna figure
that out. Follow us on Instagram at First Listen Podcast,
and follow us on YouTube where ever wherever that ends
(50:02):
up being sound good sounds good
Hi, Welcome to ad First listen, This is Andrew, this
is Dominie, and today we're talking about Charlie XCX's BRAT album,
The Record of the Summer, right.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
My favorite album of the year.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So you picked this album from me. I'd never heard it.
I don't know if you knew that.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I didn't know that. I figured you couldn't avoid hearing it.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
This is one of those things where I think a
lot of people like me have heard about this record
all the time for the past six seven months, and
we're not really sure if we know, like what people
are really talking about where this is concerned. Like, the
(00:57):
cover was probably the most iconic part of it, and
for me, as a straight white man, it was like, Okay,
this is what everybody who is not in my demographic
is way into right now. The Yeah, the blue and
black cover was everywhere, and the green and black I
(01:20):
don't know colors now, but it's between Christmas and New
Year's I haven't been using my brain a lot, so
green and black that covers everywhere. For a while, I'm like,
do I know any of the music from this? Is
this anywhere? Because I was familiar with Charlie XCX before
(01:42):
but this was definitely a breakthrough in a different way
for her.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, so I've never been a Charlie XCX fan. I
feel like my relationship to her earlier music was very
similar to your relationship with Bratt, which is like when
there would be big hits, I would hear them, but
I wouldn't connect it with her necessarily as an artist.
(02:09):
But when this album came out, I was in the
middle of a road trip, so I think that it
was very much a time where I was like ready
to listen to whole albums and I kind of just
couldn't avoid it. On TikTok, all the girlies were sampling it,
(02:32):
and I think I I think I actually finally listened
to it when there was when I watched a video
essay about it, about all the lore, and I was like, Okay,
I have to listen now. And it's such a short
album and the songs are all like really short and snappy,
(02:53):
like it's so easy to listen to it over and
over again.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, it's like forty one minutes the whole way through
a lot of two three minute tracks. There might only
be like one three minute track, Like it's very brief
for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, the songs are over before you know it.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
The thing that I think that is so intriguing about
this record and why I was glad that you picked it,
was Charlie XCX has had so many hits, but not
really with her name on the front. You know, she's
a feature on a lot of records. There's Boom Clap right,
which was from so long ago? Like that was so
(03:33):
long ago. I didn't I don't think I was aware
of that song when it came out. I was aware
of it. After Iggy Azalea's Fancy, It's like, oh, it's
the girl from that song, like what is that? Okay?
And then there was the iconopop record, and then not
that much before the past couple of years, and then
she finally has probably a record that she never thought
(03:55):
that she would have in terms of the impact that
it made. Do you think it is fair to say
that she's now a gay icon?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes and no? Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
So interesting thing about that is I would say gay icon.
But like, so, I was in Texas this summer and
I was doing my own thing, right, and I got
really into Charlie XCX. Really I got into brat. But
then when my friends, when I got back to New York,
and I asked my like New York queer friends.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
They were like, it was more of like a white gay.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Guy kind of thing, almost more like Lady Gaga or
even like Taylor Swift or Lana del Rey kind of.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Like the I would.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Say, yes, gay icon, but like not a queer icon,
which is more like where I would find myself.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's where the cool kids hang, which like it was.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Just funny because I was like expecting all my friends
to be on the same page, like brat Summer. Yes,
we know all the songs, we know all the words
get into it, and they were like, it wasn't really
on my radar. Like I kind of saw it and
it kind of seemed corny, and so I just didn't
listen to it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But it's one of those things where it's like.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Maybe you're perceiving people at their most annoying, but like
that's not representational of her real audience. Okay, So I
was just kind of surprised that I think it was
very internet mm hmm. I think like that's where I
got it was seeing people do the trends on TikTok,
(05:44):
watching the videos all the lore, and she is like
a total internet artist, like she was like MySpace.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That era was when a lot of like og fans.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay, that makes sense because I've had this perception of
her as someone who's starts super young, and she's only
like in her early thirties at this point, So for
her to have dated back to the MySpace era makes
a lot of sense when she probably was a teenager herself.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, she talks about her parents dropping her off at
the raves to perform when she was like fifteen.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So you mentioned brat summer. To have a phrase, like
an adjective that transcends your music is a kind of
a big deal. Listening to the record, and we'll get
in the next segment to like some of the highlights
of the tracks, But like listening to the record, the
term brat is not like a heavy handed theme. I
(06:42):
heard it in there's at least one mention of it,
and then obviously it's the album. But from how you
experienced it, like when did people start using that adjective.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So definitely the adjective or.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Verb sometimes verb, Right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's a a brat to be a brat, I think
it's a I think it's a noun.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Actually, Well, if it's a brat summer, then brat is
modifying summer.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
True.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Okay, so it's both an adjective and a noun. And
because like.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Being, I'm just trying to make sure I don't sound
like a huge ideo.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, you know, be careful because oh, I think this
is where the this is the really important stuff to
talk about. Is brat a verb or a noun? I
think a brat, like a brat is a person you
can be. You can be brat, which would be adjective,
(07:41):
like you can like being brat. It's like a state
of mind. Yeah, and then that would fit into brad summer.
But I feel like there is also an element of
like British speaking patterns.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, that I that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Like, I don't use that is coming into play there,
But I can't say for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That is one of the things that is always I
don't know if it's a novelty to me, there is
something about this accent that is works very well in music.
To me, I like hearing that a little bit, you know,
because like the Beatles, Elton John, like a lot of
(08:25):
the classic British artists more or less sang with American accents.
Paul Rodgers from Bad Company is a great example of that,
where you're surprised when he actually speaks because he doesn't
sound English at all. Freddie Mercury, I guess had a
bit of an accent, but still like hearing people kind
of embrace their accent in the music as part of
(08:48):
why the nineteen seventy five is so interesting. All these
like post rock bands like The Smiths and The Cure
and stuff like. You still don't hear it all the time,
but it does make it a little like, I don't know, exotic.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I'm so curious. Maybe this is a stretch, but I
wonder if autotune has any relationship with that, because I
feel like part of the reason that accents come out
or don't come out is because of like you need
to use a certain certain vowel sounds to get the
(09:25):
notes to sound good, and so like, I wonder if
the fact that.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Like autotune is liberating accents.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, I'm so curious about that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Right, because if someone's a classically trained singer like you,
if you're singing opera or something, you're trained to say
those ease and odds with a certain inflection, because that
is I think, I think, because that is how to
get the note to ring more truly with a with
(09:58):
a more precise pick, But.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That will have to We'll have to think we do.
And I agree.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I think I love hearing the accent, and I definitely
hear Brett like that's so Brett. I hear it in
her accent. But I think it also fits into like
a wider culture of young women, you know gen Z
Millennials like claiming space and claiming like cute vibes, girly vibes,
(10:38):
and like asking for what we want and like not
caring if we come off as like bitches or brats.
People were just ready for that word to name it.
She added this element of like club culture that the
the gen Z's, the like COVID generation really wanted and
(11:02):
didn't connect with. Like the reason I was able to
connect with it right away is because I like listen
to techno and club music, and I have some of
the same artists that I like as Charlie. Like that,
I feel like I identify with her more than I
(11:25):
identify with other like Charlie XCX fans.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Interesting, but it was much more. It was much more like.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Digestible than a lot of the more underground like queer
music that she references like Sophie.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh yeah, I want to ask you about that. So
let's do this. Let's take a break, we'll come back.
I want to talk more about this club culture connection.
I want to talk about autotune. I want to talk
about some of the great moments from BRAT that's acts
on AFRIS Listen. And we're back on Afris's Listen. My
(12:19):
name is Andrew Dominique and we're still talking about Brat here.
So Dominique, you mentioned auto tune in the intro. One
of the things that I really liked about Brat was
the way her voice is treated like another instrument in
(12:40):
the mix, like it's electronic music and its electronic record.
The only thing that is like acoustic or organic is
her voice. But it's really treated with the tuning and
with the effects like it's a synth. And that also
makes the album feel not so pop. It does feel
(13:01):
more connected to like a rave culture. Not that I
know anything about that. Is that how you interpreted it?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yes, I hadn't thought about that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I will say like in that way, I did notice
that like aspect, but I didn't I didn't think it
wasn't pop as much because of it. But I totally agree,
especially not current pop, Like it's almost more like like
a G six I feel like exists in the same
(13:32):
world as this, well a classic from the odds or
the twenty tens. But I definitely think that there's this
like almost DIY vibe to it, even though it's I
don't it's not DIY, like she's an established musician. Yeah,
But same with the album cover, Like there there's that
(13:58):
democratization of music with like having auto tune and being
able to to produce all these different elements of an
album or meat of a song without having to be
like the best singer ever or the best whatever or
even an okay singer, Yeah, and being able to just
(14:20):
bring that like personality and fun to it. The lyrics
are definitely super super clubby in the way that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
They repeat a lot. They are about partying.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Right. There's there's two songs on the record that are
explicitly about doing cocaine.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yes, yes, which I I which is by the way,
also the first track is the first of those two.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And then the last track is kind of this one
but just like more about doing cocaine.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Right, Yeah, what is that like?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Is that like that riff ding Ding didn't do, Like
I feel like that has to be from somewhere or
is it just like that you that like stuck in
my head already.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, it's like I feel like she plays in the
conventions of this type of music and whether or not
she's a great singer. Like the cool thing about this
record is the album's not about that. It's like it's
bratt If I could say, like she doesn't care.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, Like it's very clear.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
In the lyrical theme of the record in the album cover,
which is like a pixelated word document that like, she
does not care if you like it or not, if
you think she's a good singer or not, if you
think the music is good, the lyrics are good. It's
just very as it is. And maybe that's part of
(15:50):
why people lash onto it so much.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Well, it's like if the girlies who get it get
it right? Do you know that quote? No, So this
is like it's there's a whole world around it, so
like in this in that well yes, that.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
But that's that's what got me into this record as
much as I did, because I could feel that there
was this was like the tip of the iceberg or
something that there was a lot behind all of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So continue, Yes, it's this song where she's like, I'm
so we're talking about Yeah, I'm so Julia, right, you
know who Julia is? So Julia is Julia Fox. Do
you know who Julia Fox is? So that's why it's
like so crazy. The algorithms really like put us in
(16:38):
separate worlds quickly. Julia Fox is just like a cool
fashion girlie who dated Kanye. She was like the hot
lady in Uncut Gems and she's just like been it girl.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
For a minute.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And she she there's one quote where she was on
some podcast and people were like, why do you dress
like that or something like that, and she's like the
girlies who get it get it, the one girlies who don't,
the people who don't don't something like that. And then
so she's saying, I'm so Julia three sixty. It's basically
saying like I'm everywhere, Like Julia Fox is just everywhere
(17:17):
and like everywhere all the time, all around the world.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I'm so Julia right, so three sixty being wherever you look. Yeah,
And it was almost prophetic that this would be the
first song and the album would take off like it did.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So true.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
It's it's it's like weird to wrap my head around
her not being this person when she wrote the album. Yeah,
but it's almost it's like something that I think a
lot of us can identify with as artists, is like
we know we're that person, and we're just trying to
show it to the world so that we're all on
(17:56):
the same page. And she really did that. And then
she also that's the thing, is is it prophetic or
is it just her grand design that worked, because like
I don't know if you checked out any of the videos,
but the videos are a huge part of it. She
(18:17):
has all the IT girls in the videos.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Like I had the thought during one of the listens
that the album kind of comes out as if it's
a soundtrack to a film or like like an installation.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Almost totally like she I mean, she did this whole
crazy worldwide campaign with the like rat wall that changed,
like I don't know if it was every day or
every week, but it kept changing, and I think it
was in soho okay, and there was a whole world
around it. Yeah, and just like all the Internet girls
(18:53):
were in the videos and that was like a part
of it. So she she made it the moment she
like she got every all the cool people that anyone
looks up to, like any of the people who would
be fans of her album, they were all featured in
the album. It was very like some genius marketing was
(19:15):
the theme of this as well, and her like embracing
being that was a big part of this this album. Actually,
we want to talk about the next.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Song club classes.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, club classics. When I go to the club, I
want to hear those club classics. And she's like, I
want to dance to meet that's like the first and
then she names all these other artists, George yea, Sophie, Sophie, Yeah,
I would to dance with. She says a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
There's a lot of first names, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes, and like any yeah, if you.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Have no chance of being able to.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
De dupe, I I have guesses. But not really.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It was like her her claiming that she is a
part of that even if she isn't known to the mainstream,
like that's why she's a club classic.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah. There's such an awareness to this album. I think
there's one track where she basically just talks about her
career and it's she basically describes my perception of her
career that she's like not really that famous, and then
she's sort of wrestling with whether or not that's okay
(20:33):
or whether she wants to be more famous, and of
course she got much more famous.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, I think it's rewind Rewind, Yeah, which that was
a song that I really connected with. It was like
not one of the big hits, so it took a second. Yeah,
I guess it doesn't matter if we don't wander so
rewind she's talking about, Yeah, how she's wrestling with that.
(21:01):
I was thinking the same thing, that that's like an
obvious connection to make with what we're talking about, that
she like knows her influence, but she has maybe regrets
about just like being letting her insecurities hold her back.
And that's been a big theme in my life.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
So I talked to my friends about it, and we
are a lot of us identified with that of like
just wishing that we didn't let our insecurities stop us,
like wanting to be too cool or wanting to be
something and then realizing that you were already that you
(21:45):
were you were gonna be cool, and like that wasn't
that wasn't worth waiting on and but like we still
have those insecurities and we're still wrestling with it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It's the type of conceit you wouldn't expect from an
EDM record. Honestly, totally.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
That's like and that's why it's so cool, is like
she brings all that stuff together like she it's like
it's not it's also not pop like I do. There
is an element with like any any music that gets big,
anything that gets big, you're not allowed to break the
(22:25):
is it like breaking the fourth wall. You're not allowed
to say like I hate this. Like you can say anything.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, you can.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Say like I hate my life, I hate myself, I
hate everything in the world, but like you can't be
like the music industry itself is terrible and I wish
I wasn't doing this and I'm really confused about it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
This is maybe not worth it.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, exactly. But then it is like a lot of poetry.
And that's funny because like on Girls So Confusing, the remix,
which I don't know if you listened to.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
So No I did not one of the things that
I liked about this record. As I listened to it
the first couple of times, I was like, oh, cool,
there's no features on this record, And then I came
to find out just scrolling a little bit down, there's
a version of the record that is entirely features and
there's like a million people on every song.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yes, and it's so confusing.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yes, yeah, like they can't even fit all the names
in the Like it's a three sixty featuring this person,
this person, but there's more people than that on the track.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah. No, because she came.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It was like it felt like a lot of these
songs were kind of directed towards other artists. I mean,
that was definitely that was one hundred percent Well people
say it was one hundred percent dedicated to Lord, Okay,
it was, but there's other people that it could be
also about. But like it is, there's like all of
(23:59):
this lore between Charlie and Lord that like they look similar.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, that that song also, when you listen to it,
sounds like it's about a specific person, and I was
trying to think about who that would be. That makes
a lot of sense that would be Lord.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
It's about Lord because they look kind of the same
and they both have accents. Lord is like from New Zealand, though,
I think, and the world basically, Yeah, yeah, but there's
like a there's a video it's like an iconic I
don't know if it's iconic, but it's a meme. There's
a video of Charlie getting interviewed and the interviewer thinks
(24:36):
that she's Lord and she's like mixing them up. Oh no,
and then Charlie just like pretends that she is Lord.
She's like Royal. They're like Royal's was a big song, right,
She's like, yeah, it was. And she talks about how
like you like writing poems and I like throwing parties,
(24:58):
and it's funny because these are also poetic. It's like
also about her wanting to be that other type of
artist as well and doing that with this album, but
still being her club self.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah. I think this is a rare album that like
really gets going halfway through Sympathy is a Knife and
I might say something stupid or tracks three and four,
they're both like slower tempo songs, like you wouldn't necessarily
think that that's going to fit into like a DJ
set at a club, whereas it kind of starts off like, oh,
(25:39):
this is gonna be just like full on dance record,
and then it has like there's ballads on this album
and then from like Von Dutch on till the second
to last track, it's basically all dance music with maybe
a couple moments that are a bit lower.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, it is. It's really funny how you're totally right
about that. Von Dutch was definitely the first song that
I got into.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Like that was. I listened to that song.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Like a hundred times before I started listening to the album.
It was like a viral song, but I I thought
that it was Kim Petris okay at first, for like
no reason. I think it was just like in my head,
I was like, this is Kim Petris, which like totally
is like in the same world as her and it.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
So it was one of those where like you realize
that you're kind of obsessed with this one song and
you're like, I should really just check out the whole album.
There might be more of this one.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
And so like I would listen to Von Dutch first
and then listen to the rest of the album and
then start back up at the beginning because it ends
so fast that you're like, oh, let me just I
missed it, Like, let me just start again. So and
I definitely think it took me a while before I
like really paid attention to sympathies a knife. Even Club
(27:05):
Classics is like, I don't know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It seems like it's for a specific kind of person, right.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
It's also like, because it's called club Classics, I feel
like it should be more of a club classic.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, it kind of gets going and then it immediately stops.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yes, Yes, I feel like she she hits us with
three sixty at the beginning, so you're like, I have
to listen to that obviously. That's like also the most
viral Okay song Okay three sixty and Vonda Dutch were
both really big. I think there was more like trends
about I'm so Julia.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And it's also that like what is it? What do
you call it?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Is there a name when like just different multiple artists
collab to like get each.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Other's clout hmmm, cloud mountain.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, I don't know that's a good term for it.
But like referencing Julia, like in the first in the
first couple of songs, she's referencing these other like popular
people that all like also respect her as an artist,
but that she respects, but they don't know her. Probably
they don't know each other, so she's like kind of
inviting them in and then she hits us with like
(28:18):
I'm sad.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Guys, but for real, I'm sad.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Like Okay, that was fun, but like listen to this also,
like I'm not feeling like I'm all that, Like I'm
referencing all of you people, maybe because i feel like
I need you guys to support me and I need
you to know that I'm going through stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And then she hits you with von Dutch. That's like
just one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I don't know if girl power is just a dated term,
but it's like it's just very like I'm the best
and you're corny and you're poor.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Also like it's like a little bit of.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Like I'm getting money, you get mad because the bank shit.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
But she's it's sort of just like you have to
go to.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
The ATM and it's closed. I don't know, I don't know,
but it's not trying to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Right, because vulnerability is not something you associate with.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
A rave No, well, not vulnerability definitely like escapism.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, yeah, you can definitely see lasers and like five
machines for most of this album. In Your in Your
mind Palace.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yes, which is I think another thing that was really
iconic about it, which was that it doesn't have that esthetic.
All the videos are very daytime outside, like a lot
of it's outside. A lot of it's like very daytime,
which I think makes you look a second time because
you're like, this is different, like because they're wearing club
(29:50):
outfits and they're doing club things, but it's like it's
like different setting.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Interesting. So it's like the Texas Change saw Massacre of EIGHTML.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You could say that. I maybe wouldn't, but.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I think the biggest hit from this record is Apple.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, yeah, because it has the dance.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
There's a specific dance.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
There's a dance, and I like never learned it, but
I also still know it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think it's like and there was a viral dance
that was really easy.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Okay, I just like never learn those because I know
I wish I did, but I mean I have. It's fine.
It's not locked in. Yeah, I know it enough. It's
the Apple, But.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
That song is that song.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
It has the dance and then she like would do
the dance all the time.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Is she a dancer?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
No? No, okay, that's her old thing.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
She doesn't care like you were saying before, like I
meant to say regarding the auto tune thing, and like
I feel like that fits in with like she's not
a typical pop star, like she is an artist.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, and it's a holistic sort of career approach.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, and she so like she hopes. She hosted SNL
and did you watch that? I did not, So I
didn't watch the whole episode, but I watched some of
the some of the skits, and her monologue super inspiring.
And her monologue is basically about auto tune. She's like,
(31:29):
autotune is great because you can like say anything you
want and it sounds good. And so she's doing it
through auto tune and she's like saying, like I you know,
I hate you. I'm going to break up with you,
and like you don't have to try, you don't have
like it just sounds good no matter what. And I
think that also fits in with her as a dancer,
(31:53):
Like I really identify with her, and the SNL episode
actually solidified that even more, as like she dances, she's
not a dancer.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
She sings.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She probably wouldn't call herself a singer, you know, like
Sabrina Carpenter I'm a singer. She's much more than a singer,
but like you said, she doesn't need to be. She
moves around and she walks around cutely, like you know,
there's this expectation of musicians to be like moving all
(32:30):
over the place doing choreography while singing, and she's like
doing this whole performance that's really herself, you know. Like
in contrast, and like Beyonce or Taylor Swift, who are
well Beyonce especially, she does so much, but she has
that distance from her audience and her fans, whereas Charlie.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Is, like Beyonce is trying to win a gold medal
in every event.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yes, yes, yes, But Charlie, it's like so much personality
and like you're at the party with her, like you
feel like you're yeah with her in it.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
And if we're doing choreo all night, we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Get tired, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
All right, let's take a break and we'll come back
and we'll wrap up this episode of At First Listen,
And we're back on at First Listen. I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique,
(33:32):
and we're wrapping it up with Brats. What's your favorite
track on this record?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
I have to say current, I really like Mean Girls
okay as every great as it is with every great
album I have gone through phases.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, so Mean Girls is kind of going up in
my rankings of this record. First time through, I didn't
really like the song because it was it seemed kind
of a tired sentiment. And then listening to it today,
I like that song more.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
What made you resonate with it more now?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think there's a level of comfort that you get
from listening to an album multiple times and you feel
a bit more connected to what the artist is trying
to do, and that it's not a typical like bad girl,
do what you want kind of song. It's it's a
(34:33):
little bit deeper than that. But also it's it's only
so deep because it is at this point in the record,
it's like we're back to having fun again.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That makes sense to me, I don't.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah, it took me a second to even like, really
pick it up on my radar as well. I think
that part of what made me get into it was
the presidential election and her association with it with Kamala,
like endorsing Kamala and.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Oh I didn't know she actually endorsed Kamala Yeah. I
just heard Kamala is brat like a billion times.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
She like she did, okay, And did she.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Say the phrase Kamala is brat?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I don't know. I do not know.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I think that was just created. And there was like
there was remixes of I don't remember which song it was,
but there was a remix of one of her songs
that included the like do you think you fell out
of a coconut tree? It was like turned into one song.
It was really good, mean girls, I think there it
(35:42):
was really that vibe of like if you think, I mean,
if you think I am a bitch, that's your problem,
and actually like yeah, you go ahead and think that
way and just like stay and stay away from me. Yeah,
And it's not really about her feeling like that. It's
(36:02):
about like that's how you think, that's what people see her.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Ass, this is the way people see me, and this
is why I don't care exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think that is cool.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Also, like I see the other girls who come off
that way and I'm like go off, yeah, and like slay,
we get it, and it's it is a wall and
a lot of this is like being vulnerable and then
saying like no, but I'm keeping the wolves up. But
like the girls who get it get it. It was
that vibe with Kama of like people want to be
(36:33):
haters and they succeeded, but I'm not gonna be like
apologetic about this about like, yeah, I like her because
she's a black lady.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Sorry, I don't care.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, and like and then another thing is thinking about
comedy bringing that in Mean Girls is you know, a.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Iconic comm.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Coming of age comedy of mind, Charlie's you know, generation
of girlhood.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Like that's.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Obviously referencing that movie, and the fact that we're adults
now is relevant that like she knows who she's talking to,
and that in that movie, the black characters the only
thing that they do is that the very beginning of
the movie, in the lunch room scene, it's like they're
the unfriendly black hotties moving on.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
That's their whole role.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
And it's so funny because the movie is called The
Mean Girls, but the black girls who only hang out
with each other, that's all they are. They're just unfriendly
and they're hot and they're black, and that they're not
important anymore. Coming from that background and then seeing that
seeing Mean Girls in this context and like it's not
(37:59):
like Charlie. Charlie wouldn't identify probably with that part of it,
but it is I think referencing this part that like
we get described this way by other people and like
we're meant to feel shame about being who we are
(38:20):
putting this like near the end of the album, like Okay,
we've all been partying together, but now maybe we're gonna
even tighten up this crew who's like in on it
with us, And it's very it's so cool because it's
like her talking about it's from her perspective looking at
like other cool girls, Like it doesn't even necessarily seem
(38:41):
like she feels like she's that girl. She's like in
her mid twenties, and she's not in her mid twenties.
Who knows when she wrote this song, but I mean,
I've definitely been that girl, felt like that girl, and it.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Made me feel seen.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
It made me feel like it was okay to feel
like that, and it made me also like join it
feel like I was able to be a part of
something that didn't that I was like alone in before.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
And I like that.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Okay, I think I like it too. That's one of
the ones where it's unclear if it's autobiographical or if
it is a true like third person sort of point
of view, if she if that's another song where it's
a reference to another female pop star who is maybe
(39:31):
not getting positive coverage in the press, because if people
don't know, women get a lot more negative coverage in
the press than men, almost regardless of what they do,
especially in the UK. I on the subway up here
to the studio, listen to the last third of this album,
(39:51):
and I love the way it concludes with this song
about struggling with the idea of because a mother and
how that would affect your career, and how you're happy
for your friends who have children, but you're not sure
if you want that for yourself, and then immediately followed
by a song about dooming cocaine every single day and
(40:13):
going to the club and partying all the time.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I love how, and then like the way that it's
also circling back to the beginning with like three six,
three sixty three sixty five. Yeah, like three sixty circling back.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I meant to figure out what the relationship is musically
between the two songs. I think the lyrics are the
same but the vocals are mixed differently, so it emphasizes
more of the drug references. Could be I could be
a little off base about that, but that's what I
(40:48):
think they are doing here.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
No, there's a lot of similar lyrics. I also like
I was very confused by it at first.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
I know that, like.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
It's oh, Julia is not a part of three sixty five. Okay,
there's like certain things. No, it's like a it's like
gets you.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, and I also.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
It's like an alternate reality version of that first song. Yeah,
it's super interesting. It's not the type of thing that
I would have picked up on one listen, and it's
certainly not the type of thing that I would have
expected from this kind of album.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Right, and I yeah, I really I agree it Like
it's like an it's like an illusion.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
It confuses your brain.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, because you like it if you're not super paying
attention to this record. You like this song out of
familiarity because you just heard it thirty eight minutes ago,
and then you realize that you did hear this song before,
and then you think that, wait, has the album started over?
But no, it hasn't.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Exactly going back to what you said about like thinking
about having kids. I'm thinking about life, you know, passing
you by, and the people around you not you know,
you're all changing, going in different directions.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's also it's.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Her coming back around with that vulnerability that is more
in that first half of the album, and then like
claiming again that she like knows who she is.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Ultimately she's sort of reclaiming her identity as an artist.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Yes, and like as a person I think in the world,
Like that's a lot of this album is kind of
like I said before, she's this well rounded artist, she's
a person, Like she's not trying to appear like a
perfect product, but she's she is wrestling with the idea
(42:51):
that she is doing that, and she.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Does want that.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
She's taking this step into this pop star phase, which
is like a very different existence than where she was before.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yes, and she she's it's also because of her mortality.
She's like, oh, I'm like my young heart. Yeah, I
have to if I want to do my pop girly
moment where people won't like hate on me for wearing
a belly shirt, you know, I have to do it
now basically, and then and then also like the cocaine
(43:24):
like drug element is so funny.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Charlie most likely doesn't.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Do a lot of drugs actually, like I think, but
people who are really seriously into drugs aren't talking about
them like this munch okay in this way, like it's
not like a fun light thing, you know what I mean.
Like she her relationship with it is very much like, yeah,
I'll have a bump here and there, but like I'm
(43:54):
making art mostly I'm just like a part of the scene,
so I am like, that's a part of it. I
thought that was really funny because it is like it
is a motif of this and it is kind of
maybe glamorizing it in a.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Way that I don't know if it's positive. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
I don't know any people that are like that age group.
But there is this conversation of like, let's get the
young kid, not the young kids, the young adults, the
gen z's into the club like they're like online, it's
like this whole thing of their like I want I
(44:32):
saw the clubs on TV growing up or movies, and
now I'm here and it's awkward. Everyone just has their
phones out and nobody dances. And there is this element
of Charlie inviting everybody into this world and trying to
say it's not scary, Like I'm not scary, we're all
(44:53):
we're all just having fun and we're all sad and
maybe we need some escapism. But it's like it's really
about the vibes.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah. Yeah, I think the choice of those final two
tracks back to back is pure comedy. I like that
you've read into it a little bit that maybe we're
not entirely glorifying drugs, but I'm not going to finish
that sentence.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It's a perfect place.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
So we do need to find out how much drugs
Charlie XCX does do, and that'll be a an effortless
investigation with a report to go.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah, I think it was super fun talking about this.
I totally fell in love with this album, and when
you asked me, like, what is a favorite album of mine,
it's It was just the honest answer because I think
(45:55):
it really just yeah, it was just true. It wasn't
it's not something that I think is really cool, but
it's also like gets the moment, but the moment's over,
so it was nice.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
I think when.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Kamala lost Brat, summer was over, that was the now
in the coffin, and we were like, yeah, let's move on.
It's nice to talk about it because I do still
love these songs and I do still hear Apple at
any party I go to, like the girlies are singing it,
the girlies are doing the dance. So I'm happy we
(46:33):
got to really get into it and I could share
it with you. Right.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
I loved this choice at the time. You know, we've
done so many records on the show that I had
really high hopes for stuff that I wasn't familiar with,
and this is one of the ones that really met
my expectations, where like I expected that it would be
fun because people seem to be having a lot of
fun with it, And now I have that added perspective
(46:59):
of the record and I like it, and I agree
that it's very fun.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
That's amazing. Like so many things are over hyped. I
definitely relate to that and like, ugh, it's so hyped up,
like there's no way it can live up to it,
but it actually does because in a way, there's so
much more to it than than the hype.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, so you mentioned Sabrina Carpenter earlier.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah, well we may have to talk about you know,
Sabrina Carpenter and another EP because her her I think
that is like a perfect TikTok.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Song mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
And it was great for her tour and everything. But
she her album that she's nominated.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
For, Short and Sweet.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah, Short and Sweet, Yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
There's a lot of more depth there, Yeah, and it
like if you judge, you could if you just judged,
if you just judged brat By like three sixty or
or Von Dutch ap Apple is a maybe a bit deeper.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, apples one of those exceptions to the modern pop
songs where it is very pop friendly, but also if
you think about what those lyrics are, there's something more
being said about like generational trauma maybe totally so that
after after a few listens and it really makes an
impact on you. That's one of those like little easter
(48:21):
eggs that you're like, oh, this is like a real song.
This is like a real statement.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Totally, and it's also like nonsense. If you're not paying attention,
you're like, what, like I heard the apple fruit is good?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, it's like what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (48:36):
You're like the airport, the airport, the airport, Why like
are you saying apple or airport, like what are you saying?
Like are you talking about New York? Are you talking
about Like what are you literally saying? But then when
you when you look at it, like when you actually
look at the lyrics and then in the context of
the whole album, it doesn't matter if parts of it
don't make sense. It's like just the words yeah, which
(48:58):
like to take us back, you know, to the club,
the club identity. It's like a lot of it is
just sounds that sound good. It doesn't have to make
perfect narrative sense, like a Sabrina Carpenter song needs to
like there's no like you said, there's nothing confusing about it.
You're like, that's let me espress, So I get it.
(49:19):
I know what she means by that. But then it's
also like Apple and all these songs are so short,
Like the way that she uses words and repeats them
but then uses them in different contexts. It makes the
pop thing work. Yeah, you don't. It's not controversial. It
doesn't need to be. But you can. You can make
(49:40):
it deep if.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You want to.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
So we made it pretty deep on this episode. We
will be back next week with another episode. What that
will be on we don't know. But we're gonna figure
that out. Follow us on Instagram at First Listen Podcast,
and follow us on YouTube where ever wherever that ends
(50:02):
up being sound good sounds good
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