March 13, 2025 • 43 mins
In the second episode our new cohosts recorded together, Andrew gauges Dominique's taste for the hard stuff with one of his favorite metal albums from last decade, Deftones' 2010 mid-career masterpiece Diamond Eyes — by far the most extreme-sounding record we've discussed on the show.
We explore why this album was a turning point for the Deftones, why it was the record that converted Andrew to a fan, its place in the "metal" genre and how excited we are to see Deftones on their first arena headlining tour this spring!
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(Episode 28.)
We explore why this album was a turning point for the Deftones, why it was the record that converted Andrew to a fan, its place in the "metal" genre and how excited we are to see Deftones on their first arena headlining tour this spring!
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listeni!
Connect with us on Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast.
(Episode 28.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to at First Listen.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominie.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And today we're talking about Diamond Eyes by the Deftones.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm super excited to hear about what you Why you
chose this?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Upeah, this was my pick this week. Figured me start
with each picking an album that we like a lot,
and I gotta be honest, I was a bit protecting
myself with this choice here. This was not my first choice.
But then when I was thinking about the first idea
that I had, I was like, well, this album kind
(00:49):
of represents all of the things that I am way
into and if she doesn't like it, that's going to
hurt my feelings. So I thought about it a little
bit more and I made a list and then I
came down to this album by Deaftones. Now, when I
made the decision and when I sent you the text
(01:09):
that we should do this album, I was thinking, you know,
I can't really describe myself as a like a huge
fan of the Deaftones, because this is sort of the
album that made me like them at all.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Wow. Okay, yeah, And I.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Don't know if longtime Deaftones fans feel like this is
a departure, but to me as someone who was like
just a little bit familiar with the band. For me
to like this album as much as I do, it
seemed like a departure to me for.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Them, Okay, and then did you go back and start
listening to their old music or did you keep following
them after this album or is it like a one
right album.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So when this album came out, I was in Cope
and working at WSOU ety nine point five seton Hall's
Pirate Radio, which is a student run heavy metal station.
So the Deaftones were a huge band on that radio
station and remain a big band. So I heard like
(02:18):
all of the hits, you know, the fan favorite Deaftones
music I was familiar with, and it didn't really grab me.
They're considered like an alt metal band to me, especially
at that time in the late aughts early twenty tens,
(02:39):
however you want to characterize it. I was very sensitive
to anything that was close to emo, and the Deaftnes
are not that, but they do have an appeal to
people who are or were into that style of music.
And one of the things that's so interesting to me
about them is they represent like this nexus of like
(03:03):
modern heavy metal, progressive heavy metal, as well as punk
rock and hardcore and post hardcore and new metal music.
The Deftones are this band that all of these disparate
groups can sort of rally around. Is like, this band
is very this band is cool and fits kind of
into all of our sensibilities.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Okay, so many, so many questions. First of all, what
did you mean by sensitive to emo music?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah? I just never liked it. And growing up in
the suburbs in New Jersey, all of my friends were
in like pop punk emo bands in that period when
it was just like every teenager who could play a
little bit of guitar was starting like a pop punk band.
And I hated it because I had no music basically
(03:53):
in common with all my friends at school, Like I
was into classic rock and heavy metal and like a
little bit of like weird jazz fusion, and they were
all copying Green Day. I think it stirred up a
lot of feelings for me.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Gotcha, Okay, And especially if you listen to some of
the Deftones, not so much the previous album, but the
one before that, which I think is they're self titled,
like two thousand and three.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
You can hear a lot of parts that the pop
punk post hardcore kids were definitely like appropriating for their
own stuff. So I think anything that reminded me of
that world kind of turned me off a little bit.
And then Diamondize comes out and it's like a heavy
metal record, you know, the way the album starts is
(04:43):
like a great progressive heavy metal riff. I was in
after that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Basically, I love that because I totally am a pop
punk fan. I would have been yeah, listening to not
Rady Ahead, Yes, Radiohead, different topic. I'm listening to Green
Day and like all of those pop punk bands at
the time, and.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So there's like panic at the disco, totally fallout boy Mr. Thursday,
which especially if you're from New Jersey, which you're not,
but people who are listening to this from New Jersey
know that Thursday Census Fail like the biggest bands, uh
for that age group in New Jersey?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, I would have. I feel like mine is a
little bit more West Coast kind of centered, like Blink
Win eighty two or like something corporate.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I don't know why skating was big.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
And yeah, the funny thing you mentioned Blinkwin eighty two,
it's pop to me. I think it's totally just straight
up pop. And then again there's there's people who decided
to like appropriate that sound into much a much whiny,
your more insufferable style of music.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
That's why it's so funny to hear you say that,
because when I was in middle school when this when
all of this was happening, my friends made fun of
me for listening to fall Out Boy and Panic at
the disco because they listened to like way harder stuff
that was like actual emo and actual scream. Oh I
(06:26):
don't even.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Know, so we should have switched places.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yes, Bloody Valentine, Okay, okay, like stuff like I can't
even I can't even remember, like corn but like I
was like, yeah, like the music that I like. Yeah,
they were like that's corny, you know corny. That's like,
I don't know, just not cool. Yeah, basic wasn't a turn.
(06:50):
But I think that like as I got into like
high school, it was just a bunch of everybody was
just like whining about stuff like it. It was very
I think that a lot of it was like a
bunch of choir boys who were very talented musicians, like
who were either in choir or banned, and they like
(07:11):
got together to.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Be like, we're really scary.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Actually, all right, So cliff notes is this was the
album that got me into the Deaftones. It was the
album that kind of changed my mind about them. I
don't know if that makes me not a Deaftones fan though,
because because I'm into their later work, which which normally
you like a band until their later work.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
That's why I really wanted to ask about it, because like,
this is their first album with after their basis.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, So a little bit of history the Deaftones. I
think they started in like their early nineties, maybe the
mid nineties. I think the first album actually came out
in like ninety seven. They toured like crazy, they did
so much, many drugs, got off like the worst Ones,
I guess it is maybe the way to put it.
(08:05):
Pretty early, I think, and then pretty early in terms
of like rock band progression in that you know, substance
abuse area. And then they put out these two really
big albums, the self titled and then Saturday Night Rist
(08:25):
was I think two thousand and six, and then in
two thousand and eight they were co founding bassis Chi
Chang got in this horrific car accident. They were working
on an album at the time called Eros and Chang
was rendered in like a vegetative state, and he was
kind of it's super sad he was in this kind
(08:47):
of just hanging on in this state for years. So
it was clear to the band that they weren't going
to be able to continue touring with him, like unless
a miracle happened. But they didn't feel good working on
that Euro's material without him, so they just kind of
started anew with Sergio Vega in the band or as
(09:08):
like a hired member. He recorded on the album, but
he actually just left the band like last year because
they wouldn't make him a full time member, but so
he was with them for a long time. He certainly
helped facilitate this new period which began with this Diamondized album,
their sixth album overall. And I think the other element
(09:30):
of this record that really resonated with me is the
particular style of guitar riff writing, which to me is
very influenced by a Swedish heavy metal band called Suga.
My Suga had a breakthrough album called Obzen in two
(09:53):
thousand and eight, and there is a Revolver magazine interview
where Stephen Carpenter, the guitar for the Deaftones interviews Michiga,
and that interview is apparently from two thousand and seven.
So this is a band that was very much on
their radar, and I think you can hear that influence
(10:16):
on this record. Let's take a break and we'll come
back and we'll talk about some of the highlights of Diamondize,
and we're back on efforts. Listen.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Let's get some of your feelings. Was this a chore
to listen to?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
No? No? I liked it.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Okay, I liked it, and I was happy because I
think when it comes to music from this era, I
kind of have my interests locked in. I'm not like
looking for new music that I didn't listen do back
then to like revisit and so I probably wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
But I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
To me in terms of just complexity of the music,
like how many things are going on, the complexity of
the lyrics. I feel that Charlie XCX was like easy
mode compared to this. I was like, okay, a week
or like less than Like I don't remember when you
(11:29):
gave me this song, but I didn't listen to it,
start listening to it until a couple of days ago,
and I was like, Okay, this is definitely the type
of album that I would need some time, like with
each song to really kind of get a real full
(11:50):
opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
But you know this is at first listen, so.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And here we are at wrap one listen, so to
pull on that thread. The fun thing about this record
is I have no idea almost what any of the
lyrics say. There's certain singers where I just can't understand
them basically, and it doesn't have to do with accents
(12:14):
or even diction. I think it's a tonal thing where
I just can't follow the verbal message of the song.
So I thought about looking up some of the lyrics.
I have a feeling that some of them would be
awkward to repeat because Deftones are a notoriously sexy band,
(12:36):
So I was like, I've never known the lyrics, why
start now. And then the other thing is I've never
really listened to this album like track by track. It's
like a record that I put on and I don't
really look at the track listing. So one song we'll
talk about later is a song called Prince and the
(12:59):
reason I want to talk about that song is. While
I'm familiar with it, I had no idea there was
a song called Prince on this album because I never
looked that deep into the track list. It's right there
in the middle. I just I was like, what, that's
what this song is called. It's not like the chorus
goes like Prince Prince, No, it's nothing like that. I
(13:22):
could not have told you that the second track was
called Royal, like I know Diamondized, I know Command Control,
you've seen the Butcher Beauty School, Rocket Skates Sex Tape.
The rest of the song titles I would not have
been able to pick out of a lineup.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Okay, that is very affirming because I felt like that
it was a really like cohesive album. Yeah, I definitely
felt like I would really enjoy a show like going
to a show the arc of the Different like Energies,
where it kind of like slows down near like the
(14:01):
middle ish end in some parts, but in the way
that it starts with like it's like feedback sounds.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Right, Yeah, some sort of studio feedback sounds. There's like
a wooshe which might look like.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
A airplane taking off almost, but it's.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, there's like some sort of I think it's a
feedback from like a delay or something that they just
looped at the beginning of the song. But yeah, this
riff and it just it just gets started. There's not
like a segue or anything. There's a weird noise and
we're in the first verse and it's a absolutely bone
(14:44):
crushing riff with like a really great melody over it.
Thinking about the Deftones more critically for this episode, it
occurred to me they are so good at crafting really
interesting vocal melodies again and not typical of a heavier band.
I hesitate to call them the metal band because they
(15:06):
do heavy songs in a way that to me does
not seem like alienating as some metal can be. It's
very much in the vibe section, like we're using a
heavy riff, but it's just to create an atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That is like really always confused me about metal as
a genre, because I write like when metal was first
coming out, it was like the eighties and it was
really melodic. But around this time, you know, in our
coming of age aughts whatever, that's when like Norwegian death
(15:47):
metal like super like like that's real metal.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, so that that style was definitely coming into like
the the vogue of like heavy metal, like quote mainstream
of heavy metals. It's weird to talk about metal because
it does have its own universe and like the rules
are different. There's metal songs that all metal fans know
(16:14):
that are complete, completely anonymous to like normal people who've
never given heavy metal a second thought. But there's just
like these mainstays, and it's like, how does everybody know
this song? It wasn't getting played on the radio for
most of the country, and you know, MTV was for
(16:36):
sure not playing that kind of stuff anymore. But like
there's just these certain songs where it's like you see
like the eighth opener on Warp Tour and all of
a sudden, fifty thousand people are like, hell, yeah, I
love this song. It's like where did you even hear it?
How do we all agree on this totally?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And like me back in that time, it was definitely
like how did you know that this song even started
or the last song ended, Like it's like so many
sounds going on. I was seeing like online that this
album is like considered more shoegaze than like as opposed
(17:17):
to some of their other albums and that's another genre
that I'm like, is what is that?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's like.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I could I feel like I can hear like wou
would like explosions in the Sky be like shoegaze.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Okay, because this definitely gave gave me like some explosions
in the sky and like radio Head. Yeah, that's why
I like misspoke earlier because like I hear on some
of the later songs, like Tommy Ork's.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Vocal stuff do you Where, it's like very like he
used that like malisma and like some of the he's
sort of in falsetto sort of not it's like whispery. Yeah,
Chino is the singer Chino Marino Chi changing those It's
a little confusing.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It is.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
One of the things that annoyed me about this post
hardcore music that we're talking about in the last segment
was the vocal affectation that a lot of these those
singers of that ILK had And that's kind of always
what I thought was happening here, But becoming more familiar
with the band as a whole, I'm realizing that that's
(18:29):
that's just his voice. It's not an affectation, which I appreciate.
I think it's really like shitty to say, like I
don't like that singer because in most cases there's nothing
that they can do. But I think it's valid to
be annoyed if someone is singing with an affectation, because
that's something that you don't need and probably makes you
(18:50):
sound worse, or you're like chasing something that.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Is so funny.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I feel like we could get into a whole discussion
about vocal affectation because I think that is really what
defines genres in a lot of ways. It's like vocal
affect and you know, the whatever effects they use on
the guitar, the types of riffs they use, the types
(19:16):
of you know, drum beats they use, Like I think
those things come together and they and or even separately,
they can really like signal to their listeners. Like you're
listening to pop punk, there's a good guy who's like
all of the oh sounds like you yeah, exactly like
and like it's super nasally. It makes a lot of
(19:38):
sense to me because like I think it's like humans.
We don't like when someone puts on a fake voice,
Like when you hear somebody like that Elizabeth Holmes, like
the you know, the the scammer lady who like talked
in a low voice like that was always like the
worst thing about her because I think it's like that
is inextricable from from identity, because it says so much
(20:04):
about like where you're from, your region, that you're from,
your culture, you know, your your generation. That's a really
that's a really interesting thing to bring up that it
like automatically turns you off, just that it just because
it seems fake.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, And I wouldn't have said that, Like I hated
the Deftones. I've been like, they're not really my thing.
But after I got beyond my hang ups with Chino's vocals,
I was like, Okay, this this is actually really interesting band.
(20:48):
And the drum production is another tell of like a genre.
This is this is how you know ultimately that it
is a heavy metal album because everyone uses distorted guitars
because those sound cool. But I think I have a
drum part here from You've seen the Butcher. No, it's
actually everything but the drums. Wow. So you listen to
(21:12):
the pop of the snare drum, it's like, that's not
a snare drum that you hear in a pop song.
It's too it's too punchy. It's too aggressive. You wouldn't
use that in an indie rock song. One of the
things that bugs me about indie rock is that the
snare drum sounds so weak, and it's like, just hit
the thing hard, man, Come.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
On, No, you can't. You're indie. You can't get anything.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Hard because you don't care that much. No, that's you've
seen the butcher. And I did want to bring that
up because another another thing about the rhythmic aspects of
this song is that it swings very subtly. But this
is not a song that they built in pro tools
(21:57):
on a grid. This is like, this is hard to program,
especially in twenty ten, and it's like it's got a
little bit of a rolling thing. There's triplets, and then
the whole band comes in on the uppiet yeah, and
then you get a little the shoegazy thing with the
(22:18):
melody there on the second guitar, you know, with a
big breath. That's how you know it's sexy.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
The way he's using his voice with the other instruments.
Like you said, it's not about what he's saying a
lot of the time. Even though I do want to
talk about the lyrics.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, what song.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh yeah, we can talk about rocket skates.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
That's probably the only one where I have an idea
of what the lyric is. This was actually the single
that we were playing on my college radio station, so
this is almost certainly the first song that I heard
from this record. Again, this is a very similar to
(23:11):
a My Sugar riff. Got that big popping snare and
then it gets it's in the chorus right at the beginning,
which is very cool. Also, why you would maybe use
it as a single? Breaths into the mic.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Again, Yeah, I really like this, So.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
This is also this is cool because this is track seven.
So you were you were active listening. I think that's impressive. Well,
I had commendable, not impressive.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I definitely I was trying to pay attention to what
like something if it did catch my eye to like
go back. I definitely listened to it a couple of
times and just like, yeah if if if it if
I felt like dancing and I could like see myself,
you know, bumping into some people at a show. I
(24:07):
was like, let me go back and listen. I'm big
into lyrics. I'm a writer, and I like I like
to know what they said. I'm glad to hear that
you weren't paying it. You don't pay attention to.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Them that much.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
They're not necessarily reflecting something specific.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I would say that I pay attention to them if
they are.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Bad, like okay, on my research and reading about like
where they were out with this album, like what you
talked about. This was the first album with Vega. Was
it Sheino who wrote these lyrics?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I would assume, I'm not so sure, but he's the
front man for the band.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Basically just that like they they didn't want to be
sad about stuff, Like they were super sad about losing
their friend, so they wanted to like be positive with
this album.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, And.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
It was just funny to me because first of all,
like I wouldn't call this like inspirational good times album, no,
but like so it definitely intrigued me to make me
want to look back on some of their past stuff
where they they at least self identified as complaining more.
(25:37):
It's a lot of like images, yeah, and vibes.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
He's not so much telling a story with words, He's
sort of telling it with pictures that he's conveying through words.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yes, which is really like I think works for work
so well for this music because the energy of the
music is just it's really like affective and that there's
these like ebbs and flows and loud moments and quiet
moments that let you kind of like get sucked in
(26:13):
like very like very cinematic.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, the quiet moments on this album never landed to
me as being like here is the here is the ballad,
or here is like the time to go to the
bathroom if you're at a show. It's because it does
does feel so appropriate within the record, and there is
so much of that energy everywhere else. It does feel
like these are the times where he's telling you something
(26:37):
that you need to know and it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Lets you breathe, Yeah, it lets it gives like it
gives you a moment. You know. I really interpreted the
lyrics as like these are some lover boys, like certified
lover boys, which I I went back and forth and
like is he just saying like we and you as
(27:00):
like a lyrical.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Thing like he just who is we? Who is you?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Like? Am I interpreting this in like a heteronormative way?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
You know?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Did Andrew like listen to this ever and like think
about a girl? You know?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I was really wondering about.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
That this song when I was listening to it this weekend,
I'm like, is this maybe actually about like a horrible
car accident? Like I think with the first lyric is
you're red soaking wet, does that mean you're covered in blood?
And then there's guns, razors knives in the chorus because
of something about that happened, because the rest of the
(27:41):
song conveys something very sexual, and I really just don't
know where to land, and I kind of don't want
to know. I would kind of like to leave that ambiguity.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I totally know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I think like this is very like not a TikTok
era album.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
This was before video was on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Right way before, way before, and this was like YouTube
was like just music. Yeah, was like mainly for music,
and there was there was people, there was YouTubers, but
like the main reason that I went to YouTube dot
com was to listen to watch the new music video.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, Pandora was king.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I was definitely one to like look up lyrics and
like memorize lyrics of songs, partially because I like, I
went to a lot of concerts and so if I
I always wanted to be able to sing along, and
when I couldn't, I would be like bummed out that
the other people could sing along and I couldn't. The ambiguity,
(28:45):
I think that's something that like not that this is
pop punk, but in the research there is the resurgence
of pop punk and the resurgence of music from that era.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It's very like on the nose.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And it's very clippable because these songs are so abstract.
It's like it's an it's meant to be listened to
really as an album.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I think it's really it's it is.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Nice to have music that's like easy to grab onto,
especially in like this era of like so much media.
I have to I have to keep up with everything,
Like I feel the need to know what's going on
with everything that there's almost like not toime. Feels like
(29:31):
there's not time to like sit down and listen to
an album like this, especially if like nobody's gonna ask
me about it. You know, nobody's gonna just be like,
oh the Death Tones.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
You know, it's.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Refreshing to be able to to take time and have
the like with a new album and have it not
be like cringey or corny. Really like it's it's really
it's incredible musicians, incredible artists, like making art that really
came through also in just like their whole existence as
(30:04):
a band.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I wanted to mention the song Prince that I would
have told you I'd never heard of before I finally
looked at the tracks on this album because the song
contains one of my favorite moments from the album, and
it's right there in the middle of the song, like
when it goes to the bridge. So I think I
can play it for you here. So this is like
(30:41):
the second chorus, and it's a part of the album
that always hit me really really in like the ugh
you know of it all, and it's like, how vibey
is that? That's so like really interesting riff writing, Like
(31:05):
you're playing your instrument the way you're not exactly taught
how to play it, and you're doing it after you know,
like fifteen years of like hard touring, which is the
other cool thing about this record is like six albums
in and you've dramatically reinvented your sound with like all
this new gear. I think they were playing like seven
(31:26):
or eight string guitars on this and it's just it's
a risk for a band, especially in twenty ten, an
era where like the record industry was freaking out. They
had no idea how they were going to make money.
Labels were just like laying people off. They're still doing that,
(31:46):
but it was happening much more at much higher rate
at that time because there was no understanding of what
the future of the industry would be. Because this was
physical sales were we're still being relied upon and they
were dwindling and dwindling and dwindling, and downloads weren't like
(32:07):
the iTunes thing. Band cam was not making up the difference.
I think Spotify was just I don't think it was
available yet to everybody. You still needed like an invite
if it was even at that point yet, and so
doing something dramatically different was probably not something that a
(32:30):
major record label would welcome, and they went ahead and
did it anyway.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I think that might speak to this Deftones as like
a band like that people really respected, and that Chi
Chang was really respected. That it was like a sad loss,
not just for the band, but like for the music industry.
That's why it's so funny that you like chose this
(32:56):
album right, because it's not only like the first like departure,
a big departure for them.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
It was also you were like, I'm glad they God
it worked, it worked for you.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
The different sound, and they're they're like healing process. I
also think that it was the recession, right. It was
you know, Obama was about to get elected or just
had got just been elected. Like it was a time
where we knew everything was about to be different, but
(33:40):
nobody knew what to expect.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
It was. It was the music industry.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It was everything you know, not to be not to
be cynical about it, but where there was more a
respect and appreciation for artists and their contribution, the fact
that they are making art.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, people were probably more likely to listen to the
entire record than than they would be if it came
out today. That's why bands are releasing like eight singles
from their albums, just like to maybe on the on
the sneak, get somebody listen to the full record.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
You're just hoping that anybody cares at all enough to
like look up the actual band, not just the song,
not just hear it on a playlist or hear us
you know, use the sound because there's so many choices,
which is great, but it does seem like a band
like Deftones could could yeah be drowned out in this climate.
(34:38):
It's like the type of thing where you know how
people love to say like nobody makes good music anymore,
but it's like you just don't know the good music.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
That's what we're fighting back again against here. Dominique is
like finding that the good music and checking it out
and actually doing that. It does sometimes feel like work
to do it, but doing that work to celebrate it
even a little bit.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Yeah, I just I like what you just said. I
think like, let's clip that. It's like we're doing it ourselves, yeah,
and like giving it and giving each other the opportunity
in the space to do it because it is like
it can be like lonely, like I mentioned before, Like
it's when you will like randomly get excited about something
(35:26):
that's ten, twenty thirty years old, and like you're just
gonna info dup on somebody about it who doesn't care, your.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Partner or your best friend.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
You're like, I just got really into this, let me
tell you everything about it.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And so I'm so glad that we have each other
to do that with.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
All Right, So let's take a one more break and
then we'll come back and we'll wrap it up. I
we're back on that first listen.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique, and.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
We're wrapping up the Deftones Diamond Eyes. The other really
sad thing about this album that I wanted to double check.
So cheese accident was in two thousand and eight, and
he didn't pass until twenty thirteen. So anyone who's been
through something like that before, even if you're losing a
(36:24):
loved one to like a degenerative disease, it's like you
mourn them when it happens, when you get like the
diagnosis or when the accident occurs, but then you can't
fully mourn them because they're still kind of hanging around.
I guess on some level with this album, Deftones might
(36:45):
have been conscious that they needed to depart a little
bit from the sound that people knew them for. Like
the previous album still has a lot of energy, but
it doesn't sound like this one. It's maybe a little
bit easier to go back into it, like we don't
sound we're not trying even to sound like we did
(37:06):
when when she was participating in the band, and we
still have never heard the material from that Euros record.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I was wondering about that it, like I was, I
was trying to figure that out if Eros had ever
come out.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I think there's been some leaks and stuff over the years.
I think the idea is that at some point it
will come out, but it's a we don't know when
that's going to be. Obviously, it's like a loaded thing
and you have like a family estate involved in everything.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, I as an artist, I am against coming out
with music after you know someone has passed that.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So so the past six Jimmy Hendrick's albums, you're not into.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I refuse the print stuff that came out the Amy
winehow okay, But then I was gonna say, I love
like the I love that album from Amy Winehouse. Also,
she just passed so young that there was so little
to hear from Burr. From what I've heard about the
print stuff, it's like not very good and there's a
(38:15):
reason he didn't come out with it.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And so that's why.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
I'm like, if y'all go through myself and come out
with my stuff for a quick bug, I'm gonna be
so mad. But like, I think there is space. I
think there's space to show it. I'm so on the
fence about this, Like maybe it could be in a
retrospective museum, but don't come out with it and put
it on Spotify, like people are meant to listen to this,
(38:38):
you know, along with the other stuff that was finished
and out. It's interesting that they never made vag a
like real member of the band. Seems like they just
never healed, unlike most bands that ever have existed, Like
(39:00):
they actually did stay together, right they had Like was
it Stephen Carpenter, he he's not a member?
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Is he still a member?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
He didn't do some tours and I don't really know
what his status is coming up? Okay, he during the
COVID years, he didn't tour with them internationally, so I
won't pretend to know what was going on there. There's
there's also a few other bands, like of their generation
that have had issues where like someone is still a member,
(39:31):
but they're just like I can't do the tour, I
can't do this tour, or I'm indefinitely not going to
be touring with the band. Corn is actually another one.
Their bassist Fieldy didn't do their last tour.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And I really love that.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
We don't know I am like, let's bring back minding
their own business. Yes, I don't need to know why
you are a bad person or like I don't need
to like dislike your.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, I don't need a window into your paranoia.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I assume that you're all freaks, and we're like, let's
just keep it vague.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Be a freak as privately as he positively can.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Exactly exactly, And you know, like it seems that there
has been there's a certain amount of decorum that they've
held as a as an like a band and like
an institution, almost like they made they didn't get over
the lass, but they move forward because it's a bigger
(40:30):
thing than the group of people.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
It's like they kept it a life for him.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah. The other component of me picking this record is
that you mentioned you wanted to see some music together.
They're playing masson Square Garden this spring. I think they're
also playing in Newark, so I'm definitely going at least
one of those shows. It's gonna be really cool.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I'm I really
was excited when I saw that they're touring. Yeah, hopefully
they sell out, but we can get Yeah, too much.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Away.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
We have to get our tickets before this episode exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I know this is gonna blow them up to the moon.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
You're going to be really appreciated.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, they are, but thanks so much for showing me this.
I'm really excited.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I'm yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I the type of music that I typically like listen
to is really not the type of music that I
enjoy seeing live a lot of the time. Like I
love Charlie x X, I love hip hop, I love pop,
but I'm I'm very often, always, but very often, really
(41:37):
just disappointed with what you get at a show. Just
it's like somebody doing karaoke with their own like with
it with some speakers, Like it's really underwhelming. And then
like you know, my co attendees are sometimes also giving
that vibe of like they just don't really care about
(41:59):
music or really seeing live music. So I like love
seeing live music. I love dancing at shows. I like,
I love to like reconnect with that part of music.
And I can tell that like they would put on
a really great show.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah it's it's a good show and I can't wait
to see it in a very big room. So that's
all for this episode of At First Listen look for
us on Instagram, look for us on YouTube, and we'll
be back next week with a new episode.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Thanks so much here
Welcome back to at First Listen.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominie.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And today we're talking about Diamond Eyes by the Deftones.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm super excited to hear about what you Why you
chose this?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Upeah, this was my pick this week. Figured me start
with each picking an album that we like a lot,
and I gotta be honest, I was a bit protecting
myself with this choice here. This was not my first choice.
But then when I was thinking about the first idea
that I had, I was like, well, this album kind
(00:49):
of represents all of the things that I am way
into and if she doesn't like it, that's going to
hurt my feelings. So I thought about it a little
bit more and I made a list and then I
came down to this album by Deaftones. Now, when I
made the decision and when I sent you the text
(01:09):
that we should do this album, I was thinking, you know,
I can't really describe myself as a like a huge
fan of the Deaftones, because this is sort of the
album that made me like them at all.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Wow. Okay, yeah, And I.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Don't know if longtime Deaftones fans feel like this is
a departure, but to me as someone who was like
just a little bit familiar with the band. For me
to like this album as much as I do, it
seemed like a departure to me for.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Them, Okay, and then did you go back and start
listening to their old music or did you keep following
them after this album or is it like a one
right album.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So when this album came out, I was in Cope
and working at WSOU ety nine point five seton Hall's
Pirate Radio, which is a student run heavy metal station.
So the Deaftones were a huge band on that radio
station and remain a big band. So I heard like
(02:18):
all of the hits, you know, the fan favorite Deaftones
music I was familiar with, and it didn't really grab me.
They're considered like an alt metal band to me, especially
at that time in the late aughts early twenty tens,
(02:39):
however you want to characterize it. I was very sensitive
to anything that was close to emo, and the Deaftnes
are not that, but they do have an appeal to
people who are or were into that style of music.
And one of the things that's so interesting to me
about them is they represent like this nexus of like
(03:03):
modern heavy metal, progressive heavy metal, as well as punk
rock and hardcore and post hardcore and new metal music.
The Deftones are this band that all of these disparate
groups can sort of rally around. Is like, this band
is very this band is cool and fits kind of
into all of our sensibilities.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Okay, so many, so many questions. First of all, what
did you mean by sensitive to emo music?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah? I just never liked it. And growing up in
the suburbs in New Jersey, all of my friends were
in like pop punk emo bands in that period when
it was just like every teenager who could play a
little bit of guitar was starting like a pop punk band.
And I hated it because I had no music basically
(03:53):
in common with all my friends at school, Like I
was into classic rock and heavy metal and like a
little bit of like weird jazz fusion, and they were
all copying Green Day. I think it stirred up a
lot of feelings for me.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Gotcha, Okay, And especially if you listen to some of
the Deftones, not so much the previous album, but the
one before that, which I think is they're self titled,
like two thousand and three.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
You can hear a lot of parts that the pop
punk post hardcore kids were definitely like appropriating for their
own stuff. So I think anything that reminded me of
that world kind of turned me off a little bit.
And then Diamondize comes out and it's like a heavy
metal record, you know, the way the album starts is
(04:43):
like a great progressive heavy metal riff. I was in
after that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Basically, I love that because I totally am a pop
punk fan. I would have been yeah, listening to not
Rady Ahead, Yes, Radiohead, different topic. I'm listening to Green
Day and like all of those pop punk bands at
the time, and.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So there's like panic at the disco, totally fallout boy Mr. Thursday,
which especially if you're from New Jersey, which you're not,
but people who are listening to this from New Jersey
know that Thursday Census Fail like the biggest bands, uh
for that age group in New Jersey?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, I would have. I feel like mine is a
little bit more West Coast kind of centered, like Blink
Win eighty two or like something corporate.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I don't know why skating was big.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
And yeah, the funny thing you mentioned Blinkwin eighty two,
it's pop to me. I think it's totally just straight
up pop. And then again there's there's people who decided
to like appropriate that sound into much a much whiny,
your more insufferable style of music.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
That's why it's so funny to hear you say that,
because when I was in middle school when this when
all of this was happening, my friends made fun of
me for listening to fall Out Boy and Panic at
the disco because they listened to like way harder stuff
that was like actual emo and actual scream. Oh I
(06:26):
don't even.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Know, so we should have switched places.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yes, Bloody Valentine, Okay, okay, like stuff like I can't
even I can't even remember, like corn but like I
was like, yeah, like the music that I like. Yeah,
they were like that's corny, you know corny. That's like,
I don't know, just not cool. Yeah, basic wasn't a turn.
(06:50):
But I think that like as I got into like
high school, it was just a bunch of everybody was
just like whining about stuff like it. It was very
I think that a lot of it was like a
bunch of choir boys who were very talented musicians, like
who were either in choir or banned, and they like
(07:11):
got together to.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Be like, we're really scary.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Actually, all right, So cliff notes is this was the
album that got me into the Deaftones. It was the
album that kind of changed my mind about them. I
don't know if that makes me not a Deaftones fan though,
because because I'm into their later work, which which normally
you like a band until their later work.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
That's why I really wanted to ask about it, because like,
this is their first album with after their basis.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, So a little bit of history the Deaftones. I
think they started in like their early nineties, maybe the
mid nineties. I think the first album actually came out
in like ninety seven. They toured like crazy, they did
so much, many drugs, got off like the worst Ones,
I guess it is maybe the way to put it.
(08:05):
Pretty early, I think, and then pretty early in terms
of like rock band progression in that you know, substance
abuse area. And then they put out these two really
big albums, the self titled and then Saturday Night Rist
(08:25):
was I think two thousand and six, and then in
two thousand and eight they were co founding bassis Chi
Chang got in this horrific car accident. They were working
on an album at the time called Eros and Chang
was rendered in like a vegetative state, and he was
kind of it's super sad he was in this kind
(08:47):
of just hanging on in this state for years. So
it was clear to the band that they weren't going
to be able to continue touring with him, like unless
a miracle happened. But they didn't feel good working on
that Euro's material without him, so they just kind of
started anew with Sergio Vega in the band or as
(09:08):
like a hired member. He recorded on the album, but
he actually just left the band like last year because
they wouldn't make him a full time member, but so
he was with them for a long time. He certainly
helped facilitate this new period which began with this Diamondized album,
their sixth album overall. And I think the other element
(09:30):
of this record that really resonated with me is the
particular style of guitar riff writing, which to me is
very influenced by a Swedish heavy metal band called Suga.
My Suga had a breakthrough album called Obzen in two
(09:53):
thousand and eight, and there is a Revolver magazine interview
where Stephen Carpenter, the guitar for the Deaftones interviews Michiga,
and that interview is apparently from two thousand and seven.
So this is a band that was very much on
their radar, and I think you can hear that influence
(10:16):
on this record. Let's take a break and we'll come
back and we'll talk about some of the highlights of Diamondize,
and we're back on efforts. Listen.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Let's get some of your feelings. Was this a chore
to listen to?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
No? No? I liked it.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Okay, I liked it, and I was happy because I
think when it comes to music from this era, I
kind of have my interests locked in. I'm not like
looking for new music that I didn't listen do back
then to like revisit and so I probably wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
But I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
To me in terms of just complexity of the music,
like how many things are going on, the complexity of
the lyrics. I feel that Charlie XCX was like easy
mode compared to this. I was like, okay, a week
or like less than Like I don't remember when you
(11:29):
gave me this song, but I didn't listen to it,
start listening to it until a couple of days ago,
and I was like, Okay, this is definitely the type
of album that I would need some time, like with
each song to really kind of get a real full
(11:50):
opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
But you know this is at first listen, so.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And here we are at wrap one listen, so to
pull on that thread. The fun thing about this record
is I have no idea almost what any of the
lyrics say. There's certain singers where I just can't understand
them basically, and it doesn't have to do with accents
(12:14):
or even diction. I think it's a tonal thing where
I just can't follow the verbal message of the song.
So I thought about looking up some of the lyrics.
I have a feeling that some of them would be
awkward to repeat because Deftones are a notoriously sexy band,
(12:36):
So I was like, I've never known the lyrics, why
start now. And then the other thing is I've never
really listened to this album like track by track. It's
like a record that I put on and I don't
really look at the track listing. So one song we'll
talk about later is a song called Prince and the
(12:59):
reason I want to talk about that song is. While
I'm familiar with it, I had no idea there was
a song called Prince on this album because I never
looked that deep into the track list. It's right there
in the middle. I just I was like, what, that's
what this song is called. It's not like the chorus
goes like Prince Prince, No, it's nothing like that. I
(13:22):
could not have told you that the second track was
called Royal, like I know Diamondized, I know Command Control,
you've seen the Butcher Beauty School, Rocket Skates Sex Tape.
The rest of the song titles I would not have
been able to pick out of a lineup.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Okay, that is very affirming because I felt like that
it was a really like cohesive album. Yeah, I definitely
felt like I would really enjoy a show like going
to a show the arc of the Different like Energies,
where it kind of like slows down near like the
(14:01):
middle ish end in some parts, but in the way
that it starts with like it's like feedback sounds.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Right, Yeah, some sort of studio feedback sounds. There's like
a wooshe which might look like.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
A airplane taking off almost, but it's.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, there's like some sort of I think it's a
feedback from like a delay or something that they just
looped at the beginning of the song. But yeah, this
riff and it just it just gets started. There's not
like a segue or anything. There's a weird noise and
we're in the first verse and it's a absolutely bone
(14:44):
crushing riff with like a really great melody over it.
Thinking about the Deftones more critically for this episode, it
occurred to me they are so good at crafting really
interesting vocal melodies again and not typical of a heavier band.
I hesitate to call them the metal band because they
(15:06):
do heavy songs in a way that to me does
not seem like alienating as some metal can be. It's
very much in the vibe section, like we're using a
heavy riff, but it's just to create an atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That is like really always confused me about metal as
a genre, because I write like when metal was first
coming out, it was like the eighties and it was
really melodic. But around this time, you know, in our
coming of age aughts whatever, that's when like Norwegian death
(15:47):
metal like super like like that's real metal.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, so that that style was definitely coming into like
the the vogue of like heavy metal, like quote mainstream
of heavy metals. It's weird to talk about metal because
it does have its own universe and like the rules
are different. There's metal songs that all metal fans know
(16:14):
that are complete, completely anonymous to like normal people who've
never given heavy metal a second thought. But there's just
like these mainstays, and it's like, how does everybody know
this song? It wasn't getting played on the radio for
most of the country, and you know, MTV was for
(16:36):
sure not playing that kind of stuff anymore. But like
there's just these certain songs where it's like you see
like the eighth opener on Warp Tour and all of
a sudden, fifty thousand people are like, hell, yeah, I
love this song. It's like where did you even hear it?
How do we all agree on this totally?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And like me back in that time, it was definitely
like how did you know that this song even started
or the last song ended, Like it's like so many
sounds going on. I was seeing like online that this
album is like considered more shoegaze than like as opposed
(17:17):
to some of their other albums and that's another genre
that I'm like, is what is that?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's like.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I could I feel like I can hear like wou
would like explosions in the Sky be like shoegaze.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Okay, because this definitely gave gave me like some explosions
in the sky and like radio Head. Yeah, that's why
I like misspoke earlier because like I hear on some
of the later songs, like Tommy Ork's.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Vocal stuff do you Where, it's like very like he
used that like malisma and like some of the he's
sort of in falsetto sort of not it's like whispery. Yeah,
Chino is the singer Chino Marino Chi changing those It's
a little confusing.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It is.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
One of the things that annoyed me about this post
hardcore music that we're talking about in the last segment
was the vocal affectation that a lot of these those
singers of that ILK had And that's kind of always
what I thought was happening here, But becoming more familiar
with the band as a whole, I'm realizing that that's
(18:29):
that's just his voice. It's not an affectation, which I appreciate.
I think it's really like shitty to say, like I
don't like that singer because in most cases there's nothing
that they can do. But I think it's valid to
be annoyed if someone is singing with an affectation, because
that's something that you don't need and probably makes you
(18:50):
sound worse, or you're like chasing something that.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Is so funny.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I feel like we could get into a whole discussion
about vocal affectation because I think that is really what
defines genres in a lot of ways. It's like vocal
affect and you know, the whatever effects they use on
the guitar, the types of riffs they use, the types
(19:16):
of you know, drum beats they use, Like I think
those things come together and they and or even separately,
they can really like signal to their listeners. Like you're
listening to pop punk, there's a good guy who's like
all of the oh sounds like you yeah, exactly like
and like it's super nasally. It makes a lot of
(19:38):
sense to me because like I think it's like humans.
We don't like when someone puts on a fake voice,
Like when you hear somebody like that Elizabeth Holmes, like
the you know, the the scammer lady who like talked
in a low voice like that was always like the
worst thing about her because I think it's like that
is inextricable from from identity, because it says so much
(20:04):
about like where you're from, your region, that you're from,
your culture, you know, your your generation. That's a really
that's a really interesting thing to bring up that it
like automatically turns you off, just that it just because
it seems fake.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, And I wouldn't have said that, Like I hated
the Deftones. I've been like, they're not really my thing.
But after I got beyond my hang ups with Chino's vocals,
I was like, Okay, this this is actually really interesting band.
(20:48):
And the drum production is another tell of like a genre.
This is this is how you know ultimately that it
is a heavy metal album because everyone uses distorted guitars
because those sound cool. But I think I have a
drum part here from You've seen the Butcher. No, it's
actually everything but the drums. Wow. So you listen to
(21:12):
the pop of the snare drum, it's like, that's not
a snare drum that you hear in a pop song.
It's too it's too punchy. It's too aggressive. You wouldn't
use that in an indie rock song. One of the
things that bugs me about indie rock is that the
snare drum sounds so weak, and it's like, just hit
the thing hard, man, Come.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
On, No, you can't. You're indie. You can't get anything.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Hard because you don't care that much. No, that's you've
seen the butcher. And I did want to bring that
up because another another thing about the rhythmic aspects of
this song is that it swings very subtly. But this
is not a song that they built in pro tools
(21:57):
on a grid. This is like, this is hard to program,
especially in twenty ten, and it's like it's got a
little bit of a rolling thing. There's triplets, and then
the whole band comes in on the uppiet yeah, and
then you get a little the shoegazy thing with the
(22:18):
melody there on the second guitar, you know, with a
big breath. That's how you know it's sexy.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
The way he's using his voice with the other instruments.
Like you said, it's not about what he's saying a
lot of the time. Even though I do want to
talk about the lyrics.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, what song.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh yeah, we can talk about rocket skates.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
That's probably the only one where I have an idea
of what the lyric is. This was actually the single
that we were playing on my college radio station, so
this is almost certainly the first song that I heard
from this record. Again, this is a very similar to
(23:11):
a My Sugar riff. Got that big popping snare and
then it gets it's in the chorus right at the beginning,
which is very cool. Also, why you would maybe use
it as a single? Breaths into the mic.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Again, Yeah, I really like this, So.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
This is also this is cool because this is track seven.
So you were you were active listening. I think that's impressive. Well,
I had commendable, not impressive.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I definitely I was trying to pay attention to what
like something if it did catch my eye to like
go back. I definitely listened to it a couple of
times and just like, yeah if if if it if
I felt like dancing and I could like see myself,
you know, bumping into some people at a show. I
(24:07):
was like, let me go back and listen. I'm big
into lyrics. I'm a writer, and I like I like
to know what they said. I'm glad to hear that
you weren't paying it. You don't pay attention to.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Them that much.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
They're not necessarily reflecting something specific.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I would say that I pay attention to them if
they are.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Bad, like okay, on my research and reading about like
where they were out with this album, like what you
talked about. This was the first album with Vega. Was
it Sheino who wrote these lyrics?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I would assume, I'm not so sure, but he's the
front man for the band.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Basically just that like they they didn't want to be
sad about stuff, Like they were super sad about losing
their friend, so they wanted to like be positive with
this album.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, And.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
It was just funny to me because first of all,
like I wouldn't call this like inspirational good times album, no,
but like so it definitely intrigued me to make me
want to look back on some of their past stuff
where they they at least self identified as complaining more.
(25:37):
It's a lot of like images, yeah, and vibes.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
He's not so much telling a story with words, He's
sort of telling it with pictures that he's conveying through words.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yes, which is really like I think works for work
so well for this music because the energy of the
music is just it's really like affective and that there's
these like ebbs and flows and loud moments and quiet
moments that let you kind of like get sucked in
(26:13):
like very like very cinematic.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, the quiet moments on this album never landed to
me as being like here is the here is the ballad,
or here is like the time to go to the
bathroom if you're at a show. It's because it does
does feel so appropriate within the record, and there is
so much of that energy everywhere else. It does feel
like these are the times where he's telling you something
(26:37):
that you need to know and it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Lets you breathe, Yeah, it lets it gives like it
gives you a moment. You know. I really interpreted the
lyrics as like these are some lover boys, like certified
lover boys, which I I went back and forth and
like is he just saying like we and you as
(27:00):
like a lyrical.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Thing like he just who is we? Who is you?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Like? Am I interpreting this in like a heteronormative way?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
You know?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Did Andrew like listen to this ever and like think
about a girl? You know?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I was really wondering about.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
That this song when I was listening to it this weekend,
I'm like, is this maybe actually about like a horrible
car accident? Like I think with the first lyric is
you're red soaking wet, does that mean you're covered in blood?
And then there's guns, razors knives in the chorus because
of something about that happened, because the rest of the
(27:41):
song conveys something very sexual, and I really just don't
know where to land, and I kind of don't want
to know. I would kind of like to leave that ambiguity.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I totally know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I think like this is very like not a TikTok
era album.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
This was before video was on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Right way before, way before, and this was like YouTube
was like just music. Yeah, was like mainly for music,
and there was there was people, there was YouTubers, but
like the main reason that I went to YouTube dot
com was to listen to watch the new music video.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, Pandora was king.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I was definitely one to like look up lyrics and
like memorize lyrics of songs, partially because I like, I
went to a lot of concerts and so if I
I always wanted to be able to sing along, and
when I couldn't, I would be like bummed out that
the other people could sing along and I couldn't. The ambiguity,
(28:45):
I think that's something that like not that this is
pop punk, but in the research there is the resurgence
of pop punk and the resurgence of music from that era.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It's very like on the nose.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And it's very clippable because these songs are so abstract.
It's like it's an it's meant to be listened to
really as an album.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I think it's really it's it is.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Nice to have music that's like easy to grab onto,
especially in like this era of like so much media.
I have to I have to keep up with everything,
Like I feel the need to know what's going on
with everything that there's almost like not toime. Feels like
(29:31):
there's not time to like sit down and listen to
an album like this, especially if like nobody's gonna ask
me about it. You know, nobody's gonna just be like,
oh the Death Tones.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
You know, it's.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Refreshing to be able to to take time and have
the like with a new album and have it not
be like cringey or corny. Really like it's it's really
it's incredible musicians, incredible artists, like making art that really
came through also in just like their whole existence as
(30:04):
a band.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I wanted to mention the song Prince that I would
have told you I'd never heard of before I finally
looked at the tracks on this album because the song
contains one of my favorite moments from the album, and
it's right there in the middle of the song, like
when it goes to the bridge. So I think I
can play it for you here. So this is like
(30:41):
the second chorus, and it's a part of the album
that always hit me really really in like the ugh
you know of it all, and it's like, how vibey
is that? That's so like really interesting riff writing, Like
(31:05):
you're playing your instrument the way you're not exactly taught
how to play it, and you're doing it after you know,
like fifteen years of like hard touring, which is the
other cool thing about this record is like six albums
in and you've dramatically reinvented your sound with like all
this new gear. I think they were playing like seven
(31:26):
or eight string guitars on this and it's just it's
a risk for a band, especially in twenty ten, an
era where like the record industry was freaking out. They
had no idea how they were going to make money.
Labels were just like laying people off. They're still doing that,
(31:46):
but it was happening much more at much higher rate
at that time because there was no understanding of what
the future of the industry would be. Because this was
physical sales were we're still being relied upon and they
were dwindling and dwindling and dwindling, and downloads weren't like
(32:07):
the iTunes thing. Band cam was not making up the difference.
I think Spotify was just I don't think it was
available yet to everybody. You still needed like an invite
if it was even at that point yet, and so
doing something dramatically different was probably not something that a
(32:30):
major record label would welcome, and they went ahead and
did it anyway.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I think that might speak to this Deftones as like
a band like that people really respected, and that Chi
Chang was really respected. That it was like a sad loss,
not just for the band, but like for the music industry.
That's why it's so funny that you like chose this
(32:56):
album right, because it's not only like the first like departure,
a big departure for them.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
It was also you were like, I'm glad they God
it worked, it worked for you.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
The different sound, and they're they're like healing process. I
also think that it was the recession, right. It was
you know, Obama was about to get elected or just
had got just been elected. Like it was a time
where we knew everything was about to be different, but
(33:40):
nobody knew what to expect.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
It was. It was the music industry.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It was everything you know, not to be not to
be cynical about it, but where there was more a
respect and appreciation for artists and their contribution, the fact
that they are making art.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, people were probably more likely to listen to the
entire record than than they would be if it came
out today. That's why bands are releasing like eight singles
from their albums, just like to maybe on the on
the sneak, get somebody listen to the full record.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
You're just hoping that anybody cares at all enough to
like look up the actual band, not just the song,
not just hear it on a playlist or hear us
you know, use the sound because there's so many choices,
which is great, but it does seem like a band
like Deftones could could yeah be drowned out in this climate.
(34:38):
It's like the type of thing where you know how
people love to say like nobody makes good music anymore,
but it's like you just don't know the good music.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
That's what we're fighting back again against here. Dominique is
like finding that the good music and checking it out
and actually doing that. It does sometimes feel like work
to do it, but doing that work to celebrate it
even a little bit.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Yeah, I just I like what you just said. I
think like, let's clip that. It's like we're doing it ourselves, yeah,
and like giving it and giving each other the opportunity
in the space to do it because it is like
it can be like lonely, like I mentioned before, Like
it's when you will like randomly get excited about something
(35:26):
that's ten, twenty thirty years old, and like you're just
gonna info dup on somebody about it who doesn't care, your.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Partner or your best friend.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
You're like, I just got really into this, let me
tell you everything about it.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And so I'm so glad that we have each other
to do that with.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
All Right, So let's take a one more break and
then we'll come back and we'll wrap it up. I
we're back on that first listen.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique, and.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
We're wrapping up the Deftones Diamond Eyes. The other really
sad thing about this album that I wanted to double check.
So cheese accident was in two thousand and eight, and
he didn't pass until twenty thirteen. So anyone who's been
through something like that before, even if you're losing a
(36:24):
loved one to like a degenerative disease, it's like you
mourn them when it happens, when you get like the
diagnosis or when the accident occurs, but then you can't
fully mourn them because they're still kind of hanging around.
I guess on some level with this album, Deftones might
(36:45):
have been conscious that they needed to depart a little
bit from the sound that people knew them for. Like
the previous album still has a lot of energy, but
it doesn't sound like this one. It's maybe a little
bit easier to go back into it, like we don't
sound we're not trying even to sound like we did
(37:06):
when when she was participating in the band, and we
still have never heard the material from that Euros record.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I was wondering about that it, like I was, I
was trying to figure that out if Eros had ever
come out.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I think there's been some leaks and stuff over the years.
I think the idea is that at some point it
will come out, but it's a we don't know when
that's going to be. Obviously, it's like a loaded thing
and you have like a family estate involved in everything.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, I as an artist, I am against coming out
with music after you know someone has passed that.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So so the past six Jimmy Hendrick's albums, you're not into.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I refuse the print stuff that came out the Amy
winehow okay, But then I was gonna say, I love
like the I love that album from Amy Winehouse. Also,
she just passed so young that there was so little
to hear from Burr. From what I've heard about the
print stuff, it's like not very good and there's a
(38:15):
reason he didn't come out with it.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And so that's why.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
I'm like, if y'all go through myself and come out
with my stuff for a quick bug, I'm gonna be
so mad. But like, I think there is space. I
think there's space to show it. I'm so on the
fence about this, Like maybe it could be in a
retrospective museum, but don't come out with it and put
it on Spotify, like people are meant to listen to this,
(38:38):
you know, along with the other stuff that was finished
and out. It's interesting that they never made vag a
like real member of the band. Seems like they just
never healed, unlike most bands that ever have existed, Like
(39:00):
they actually did stay together, right they had Like was
it Stephen Carpenter, he he's not a member?
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Is he still a member?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
He didn't do some tours and I don't really know
what his status is coming up? Okay, he during the
COVID years, he didn't tour with them internationally, so I
won't pretend to know what was going on there. There's
there's also a few other bands, like of their generation
that have had issues where like someone is still a member,
(39:31):
but they're just like I can't do the tour, I
can't do this tour, or I'm indefinitely not going to
be touring with the band. Corn is actually another one.
Their bassist Fieldy didn't do their last tour.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And I really love that.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
We don't know I am like, let's bring back minding
their own business. Yes, I don't need to know why
you are a bad person or like I don't need
to like dislike your.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, I don't need a window into your paranoia.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I assume that you're all freaks, and we're like, let's
just keep it vague.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Be a freak as privately as he positively can.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Exactly exactly, And you know, like it seems that there
has been there's a certain amount of decorum that they've
held as a as an like a band and like
an institution, almost like they made they didn't get over
the lass, but they move forward because it's a bigger
(40:30):
thing than the group of people.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
It's like they kept it a life for him.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah. The other component of me picking this record is
that you mentioned you wanted to see some music together.
They're playing masson Square Garden this spring. I think they're
also playing in Newark, so I'm definitely going at least
one of those shows. It's gonna be really cool.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I'm I really
was excited when I saw that they're touring. Yeah, hopefully
they sell out, but we can get Yeah, too much.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Away.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
We have to get our tickets before this episode exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I know this is gonna blow them up to the moon.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
You're going to be really appreciated.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, they are, but thanks so much for showing me this.
I'm really excited.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I'm yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I the type of music that I typically like listen
to is really not the type of music that I
enjoy seeing live a lot of the time. Like I
love Charlie x X, I love hip hop, I love pop,
but I'm I'm very often, always, but very often, really
(41:37):
just disappointed with what you get at a show. Just
it's like somebody doing karaoke with their own like with
it with some speakers, Like it's really underwhelming. And then
like you know, my co attendees are sometimes also giving
that vibe of like they just don't really care about
(41:59):
music or really seeing live music. So I like love
seeing live music. I love dancing at shows. I like,
I love to like reconnect with that part of music.
And I can tell that like they would put on
a really great show.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah it's it's a good show and I can't wait
to see it in a very big room. So that's
all for this episode of At First Listen look for
us on Instagram, look for us on YouTube, and we'll
be back next week with a new episode.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Thanks so much here
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