May 8, 2025 • 51 mins
We react to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame’s 2025 class of inductees with Q104.3 New York and iHeartRadio Classic Rock brand boss Eric Wellman.
We wrestle with the controversies, compromises and inherent frustrations of the Rock Hall. Eric dives into the Rock Hall’s history and relevance to the radio and music business. Andrew and Dominique weigh the relevance of this year’s nominees and what direction the Rock Hall should take in the future.
And, of course, we debate the snubs!
Connect with us on Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast!
Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode of At First Listen!
(Episode 33.)
We wrestle with the controversies, compromises and inherent frustrations of the Rock Hall. Eric dives into the Rock Hall’s history and relevance to the radio and music business. Andrew and Dominique weigh the relevance of this year’s nominees and what direction the Rock Hall should take in the future.
And, of course, we debate the snubs!
Connect with us on Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast!
Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode of At First Listen!
(Episode 33.)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to at First Listen, the music podcast for people
who don't always get the hype but want to.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique, and today our guest is Eric Wellman.
He's the program director of Q and A four point three,
New York's Classic Rock and the head of the classic
rock radio format at iHeartRadio. Today we are talking about
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, a subject with
which Eric has some level of familiarity, maybe less familiarity
(00:42):
every year, Eric, would you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
No, Well, I'm familiar with the argument that's been going
on since it was founded, like the first ten years
of the rock since they.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Realized they couldn't induct Eric Clapton every single right for something.
They were like, we're.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Talking about ten years to get controversial. For ten years,
it was like all right, the Beatles, all right, the
Beatles solo all right, Led Zeppelin all right, the Rolling Stones, yeah,
and like you know, unanimous, no questions. But then once
you ran out of the first ballot, guys, and the
arguments began, and it's been that way for thirty years.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm glad to have you here because all of that
was like a very helpful information. I think it's such
a hotly debated topic that like even finding out just
kind of vague background information is kind of hard, Like
it's a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Dominique made the mistake of being like, I don't feel
like I know a lot about this by text, and
I just wrote her I don't know, like a few
paragraphs and was.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Like, sorry, well, here's the way I think about it.
In sports, the halls of fame.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
There are already over my head, but.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
There are thresholds. They're like, if you're in baseball and
you got three thousand hits, you're going in the Hall
of fame.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That's like, there's no one who's quantile, no one who's had.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Three thousand hits who has not made the Hall of Fame.
And that could happen now that someone playing today could
eventually hit that mark and they're going to go in
the Hall of fame. In music, pretty hard to say
where there's going to be another Rolling Stones or Beetles
or are unanimous, no question about it. This person did
(02:25):
so many things that are undeniable that they go in
the Hall of fame. So then it becomes the most
subjective thing in the world, because music is exactly that
it's subjective. Everyone has their personal tastes and likes and dislikes,
and that's what's beautiful about it that we can argue
about it forever and that's why it's fun. But at
the same time, it's also really really frustrating sometimes when
(02:46):
you see artists that you think, like, this is ridiculous,
how are they not in the Hall of Fame? Or
this is ridiculous? Why are they in the Hall of Fame?
And then the bigger question of what's rock?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Exactly? That bigger question, right, Yeah, No, I think there's
like two things with that. One side is like part
of it is that we just can't retire things. We
can't be like we did it. We made the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame, true, close the door, good
job rock, and we're gonna move on to disco. Yeah exactly.
Then Also I'm like, okay, well I'll just be like, yeah,
(03:22):
the Dominic awards of the best coolest stuff, and now
everyone needs to care about that because I said so, Like,
obviously they've built it into a thing that like matters
because of the people who are part of it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And supposedly has a charity component too, supposedly, but no,
it does for real.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I'm just it's a hoax.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
But I just I just remember when Steve Miller band
went on that Steve Miller, the person, not the Yes,
went on that rant and called them all like thugs
and gangsters. He was gonna exposed them, and then he
just didn't.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Really no, because there's really not much to expose and
what is he getting? Wait and savory businessmen and the
music go on. I don't believe it.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I know them are in the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But yeah, I just think it's funny that, like it's
a really good name for an award, like rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. Okay, that sounds like it's like
a real thing, like the sports Hall of Fame, where
it's like it's a quantifiable thing. But it's just a
name of an award that some people came up with
and they like they say that there's like can you like,
can you can you talk about a little bit more
(04:28):
about the exact you know, what are the how to
become eligible?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Well, the the main rule is you have to be
twenty five years out from your first commercial release, and
that means, you know, not the indie thing that you
you know, pressed yourself and sent to your friends. But
the first thing that was put on a record by
a legitimate company and put out into the world. So
the the thing about that years very much so, but
(04:55):
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It's the rapper. Is he not eligible?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I don't know my son my always you know, he
started calling me unk even though I'm his dad, because
I love But the reality is to think about what
twenty five years it means now. And there are artists
that we play on our classic rock stations that probably
wouldn't want to be called classic rock, but then here
they are in the Hall of fame. Like you know,
Pearl Jam and Nirvana and Green Day and these guys
are you know, weren't in the pantheon even you know,
(05:21):
twenty years ago, and now they are because we started
playing them because we realized that, yeah they're rock. They fit.
It's fine.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
What do you think was the quickest turnaround from like
active rock radio to classic rock radio by one of
those artists Food Fighters, Foo Fighters, Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
No question. So, like we went from not playing them
at all to them being a pretty regular artst and
they're not an A list artist yet at this point,
but they are common to almost all of our classic.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Rocks, so like within ten years less.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Less they We didn't play them probably before the pandemic
in a regular way, and then all of a sudden,
in the last five years, we have a half a
dozen titles that are regularly played without a doubt, and
another four or five that are occasionally played.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
When you say a list, what does that mean, is
that like a specific list.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
No, No, just like there's a artists that that are like,
you know, Mount Rushmore kind of guys where there's a
body of work. You know, classic rock is very much
an artist format. It isn't a single format top forty.
You can have one song and that's it, and that's
your career. And there certainly are one hit wonders in rock,
but not that many of them because we mostly were
rerelated to albums and you put out an album of
(06:33):
ten songs and hopefully had a couple of hits, and
then you made another album and that was the way
it went well. In artists like the Beatles. If we
did a Beatles eight to Z weekend, there's two hundred
and something songs that we play from the Beatles, And.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
There's artists that if you're tuning into classic rock rady
you expect to hear no matter. There's variations depending on
the city. Some cities lean more seventies, some more eighties,
some more heavy metal, some more pop.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
An a artists, you're going to hear every couple hours.
That's that's really what it comes down to. And to
do that you have to have a body of work
that's worth it, because we don't do the repetition thing
like a Top forty station, would you know it is
the one hundred is going to play the biggest song
that they played ninety times a week. We're going to
play our biggest song nine times a week. And that's
you know. So you need to be an a artist.
(07:21):
You need a body of work.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Right. So when you said food Fighters isn't an a
artist yet, I thought that was interesting because it's like, Okay,
we're just waiting for waiting for them to come up
with come out with their act, the real biggest hit,
Like what is that Taste change?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, it's it's it's I always talk about it because
if if you go back in the way back machine
to the early two thousands, that was when like Pearl
Jam was a was a oh should we play this
new edition, and then we started playing it were on
the bubble, and I always described as like, we need
to evolve, because otherwise we're going to ride with We
can either ride with this audience off the cliff and die,
(08:02):
or we can keep bringing new artists into it. And
the beauty of this particular format is it is extremely
multi generational. When I first started in the business in
the nineties, you would see a dad and his kid,
and then ten fifteen years later you go to a
concert and you'd see that dad and his kid and
maybe their grandkid. And now there's actually easily fourth generation
(08:26):
classic rock listeners who learned from their dad, who learn
from their dad, who learned from their dad who was
around in the sixties when the music was made, and
passed it down to their kids. And I call that
good parenting. And it's also the reason why, to this day,
you know, this format is one of the few that
really I mean, we've added on the younger end in
(08:46):
terms of artists. We've added the nineties artists and some
of the two thousands of artists into our pantheon, and
yet we're still playing the artist from the sixties. Yeah,
maybe not in the same frequency. What they're there.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
One of the things that makes Eric's job really interesting
because he sees all the research on this that goes
into what gets played on the radio is that, yes,
like segments of the audience get older, and they will
maybe gravitate more to music that they remember from when
they were kids, like the Food Fighters are Green Day
or the White Stripes whatever. But then also, for whatever reason,
(09:20):
maybe they're really into Neil Young or they're really into
the Doors, and they're really into like this stuff that's
way older and maybe not necessarily connected to the music
of you know, their generation.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And then the funny thing that goes back to this
argument about the rock call, and it goes back to
this argument about the rock hall and who belongs and
who doesn't, is that it's counterintuitive, but we find that,
or at least I find that the younger audience it's
they insist on the purity, and the older audience is like,
I've had enough the Doors, what's that food Fighter's band?
(09:52):
Who's that Dave Grohl.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
See the one who did that terrible thing to his what, Yeah,
let me hear that music, And they don't have that
same level of Well, I listened to classic rock station
because I want to listen to the Rolling Stones and
how dare you play artist X from the last twenty years?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And it's just funny that way. So when you see
the inductees, they're the ones who are most likely going
to be screaming from the top of the mountains about
how could you possibly do this and not do that?
And it really is interesting how it's kind of upside
down for what you'd expect. You know, it's not Grandpa
Simpson on is, you know, shaking his fist at clouds.
It's actually Bart who's the one who gets pissed.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So that's funny, all right. I think that's a first segment,
and we'll come back after the break. We'll talk about
who actually got into the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame this year in twenty twenty five, who didn't make it,
and what surprises did we see in those lists. So
we'll be right back on a first Listening. Welcome back
(11:03):
to at First Listen. I'm Andrew and we're back with
Derek Wellman of iHeartRadio and Q one of four point
three New York. So Eric, the twenty twenty five Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame inductees were bad company. Chubby Checker,
who was maybe the headliner because everyone was like, he's
still alive, the Mandela effect. Yeah, Joe Cocker, Cyndi Lauper
(11:28):
out cast, Soundgarden and the White Stripes. So a question
I asked you earlier today, which one of the inductees
did you think was absolutely a lock to get in
this year?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Man, Well, it's it's one of the ones who actually
didn't make it in who I thought was a lock.
He thought he was a lock. But we'll do that later, Okay.
So who was in that was probably getting in no
matter what aldi I think it was probably Soundgarden. Really,
I think the sympathy vote matters immensely. And Chris Cornell,
I mean, that hit so hard to so many people,
(12:05):
myself included. Yeah, I mean six months before he passed,
I was standing next to him at the Garden at
a U two show. We were both there by ourselves
and it was like, hey, hey, and you two is
one of my favorite artists to see in concert ever.
And I'm standing there in this little just taking industry
section with Chris Cornell watching this like that. That was
(12:25):
the craziest thing seeing the fandom from the artists. Oh,
it's always great, and then he's and then he's gone,
and it's like, oh my god, one of the most
amazing voices. And and that band was you know, they
were the third grunge band, right. It was obviously Pearl
Jam and Nirvana, right, and then they were a close third.
(12:46):
And and the fact that they were in the same
circles as Pearl Jam.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
They were kind of the the first band in terms
of that scene because they were like the older ones,
and they were the ones that everybody looked up to.
But they were kind of the I guess, the third
of the floor band for the Big four to hit.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
And then you had the Temple of the Dog thing
with the collab and you know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
One off, which is one of the greatest albums of the.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Second really amazing. So I thought that was a lock.
I if they had not been on that list, I
would have been shocked.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, which of these surprised you? You thought Sound Garden
was a lock?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The two that that well, I wouldn't say it surprised me.
The one that surprised me the most is Outcast because
that goes to the question of what rock right. Sure,
you know, I'm familiar with their music. I you know,
heard Hey Ya, and you know the.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Music from that album, all that was inescapable. It helps
that it was a double album and there were hits
on every side, but.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Never a rock act. Sure, So that's there's always that question,
and not nearly the body of work that a lot
of the other are they rock and roll people who
have gotten into the Hall of Fame in recent years
have had So it kind of goes to my other one,
which is why stripes And one of the one of
(14:02):
the issues I've had with the rock call for the
longest time isn't so much the definition of what's rock,
but the definition of what's influential. And you know, why
are they there? And the one I always come back to,
you know, God bless her is Patti Smith. Sure, and
you know to me, Patty Smith, I don't want to
use the word overrated, because that's not the thing. It's
(14:24):
not about how good she is as an artist. Overvalued
Is that the word I'm looking for, Because as far
as I know, in the grand scheme of things, Patty
Smith has one hit and it was written by Bruce Springstein.
So okay, she's influential, is she? Because who did she influence.
I know she hung out with you on winter and
(14:44):
that sometimes was enough, especially in the early days of
the Rock Hall. But she's she's always the example I
put out there, like show me what the thing is here?
Where is that coming from? So with that said, that's
why the Outcast surprised me, only because you know, where's
the body of work, where is the the overall influence. Yeah,
(15:07):
they had a moment in time where they were huge
and that was it. And then what's happened since you
know they kind of went their separate ways? Is there
a big boy thing that I'm missing that or you know,
did Andre has done more as an actor I think
than as a as a musician.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Sometimes he's the more as a theoretical actor.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
That's that works. So that one, you know, was.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That Jimmy Hendrix's biopic that was years I think No, I.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Agree honestly about the Outcast thing. I was kind of
like same as you like what I just think that
it does seem like it needs to be a bigger
body of work and that like both of those guys
have been more influential, even as like being behind the
scenes and just existing as artists separately.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Maybe they should have gotten a Musical Excellence Award.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Maybe they should have, but it seems like there's so
there's buckets, right, and and the buckets that you see
every year that it's like, all right, we're gonna put
someone in that doesn't make sense, and that's their bucket.
The White Stripes is the other one that kind of
surprised me where it's a it's the bucket of really
avant garde artistic folks who you know, didn't do a
(16:21):
whole lot, but what they did was was was big
and bold and different, and we should honor that, all right.
You know when you when you listen to the White Stripes,
you know, it's seven Nation Army and I think I'm out,
I guess, I guess. But but did they have legs?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Are they still there? But but look what they did
with two people is astounding, Like that band made a
sound that you shouldn't be able to make with two people.
And and that's that I give them credit for. When
you create a different form of the music, props and
and and you successful at it, and they were clearly
(17:01):
successful at it. But it was it was definitely a
shooting star just boom. It was here and it was gone.
But now I would I would honor Jack White just
with what he's done beyond as a as a producer
to bring Vinyl back to all that. He's put his
hands in so many different places in a good way.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
He's sort of like Dave Grohl in a way with
his relationship to the rock format, where he as an
individual is more influential perhaps than his music or as
an ambassador of the music.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
And he's a huge connector. Yeah, he's a huge connector
of disparate things. And you always see Jack White sitting
next to someone and you're like, what is a what
is that person doing hanging out with Jack White? And
it's like if he turned around tomorrow and you know,
was was sitting next to a United States Senator at
a dinner, you'd be like, huh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
He'll probably he'll probably show up to the awards with outcasts.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Or like he walks out of the papal conclave. That
would be like Zach White was a cardinal.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I agree with you that for me, the White Stripes
was also the most surprising one, more so than Outcast,
because especially for my generation, Outcast was a gigantic artist
at this point with the rock hall, you just kind
of expect some of these are going to get in.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Right, Suel Upper for sure, bad company, you know, that's
that's the bucket of a classic rock act that we
overlooked that really deserves to be in there. There's always
going to be somebody, all right, who have we snubbed
a thousand times? All right, let's put them in. And
that that's bad company, Chubby Checker. If you've invented a dance,
you win. Maybe not, but but you know, the twist
(18:47):
and then returned to the twist and son of twist
and the twist some more. Yeah, So okay, Chubby, we
got it. Yeah. And and the Mandel effect is funny
like people you know, like how many years was Mandela
thought to be dead and he was still very much alive?
And Chubby Checker, I think he's still very much alive.
It's the same thing. Joe Cocker. That's that's a guy
(19:08):
that I still remember this in a quote. I think
it was Paul McCartney. You said it, who said that
a song has not truly been sung until Joe Cocker
sings it. Like when a guy like that says that
about you, you're in the Hall of Fame and the
fact that it took this long as a sting.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Let me let me echo your point about Patty Smith
with Joe Cocker. His biggest hit was written by John
Lennon and Paul McCartin. Yeah, and after that, what is
the rest of the catalog?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Well, there's another one by John Lennon and Paul McCarty, Okay,
and then there's Delta Lady, and there's the Letter, and
there's I mean he had and he played at Woodstock
and and that's no small thing and was one of
the best acts at Woodstock. And honoring the history is
also part of what the Rock and Hall of Fame
is about. Yeah, And and that I think is the
historic choice that is in that bucket.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Do you think Bad Company like so Division in New
Order not inducted? These are two bands that were they're
combining basically two catalogs because the principal members are the same.
Is that except for one right who passed away? Is
that how come it's not Bad Company and Free?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Uh? Well, I think Simon Kirk would would say that, like,
you know, Free, they had one song and then they
realized that they didn't have another one. And so you
know that that got their foot in the door. But
you know, joy division to New Order is a different concept.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I think, yeah, I mean, I guess it's.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, it's it's almost like, you know, it's the same
group part A and part B, whereas with Bad Company,
free was the appetizer and then Bad Company was the
main course.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But is there a Bad Company song on classic rock
radio that it outperforms a free song like aren't the
isn't like feel like Making Love the biggest song from that?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
If you're talking about my research head my research, I
would probably tell you that that the free song is
probably the best researching song that they have. But it's
not of it's not light years ahead, it's not like
the best song. And then all the Bad Company stuff
comes in behind, and there's a half a dozen Bad
Company songs they get regular, and there's one free song.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Okay. So part of the reason I didn't know how
to prepare for this was because I was like, Okay,
don't know that, don't know this, don't know him, heard
of her? No one song, like I don't know any
of the like. I would have to do so much
research to actually be able to give an opinion on
this besides for Outcast White Stripes, and I guess Mariah Carey,
(21:46):
like I think that there is this like okay it is.
It's almost like to me, being in the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame is like and we're done with
you now, Like it's almost like you had your time
and you're You're a part of history. That's also in
(22:06):
a moment.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
In many cases, it's the police come back now because
there's so many groups that get inducted into the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame and that sparks their big
reunion tour and their resurgence. And that's one of the
reasons I wanted to stop down on the White Stripes
because like, I don't know why you would give them
this award now they will not come back. I don't
(22:30):
think there's really a desire for them to come back.
And I was a huge, huge fan back in the day.
I have all of their albums, uh, even the bad Ones,
which are most of them, And I don't know why
you would put the White Stripes in at this point
when you could put in Billy Idol or Mariah Carr.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And same with Outcast, it's.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
The oasis, who is who's already doing the reunion tour thing.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I'm like if I was Andre and big Boy, like
I'm sick of hearing about outcasts, you know. Same with
same with Jack White. It's like, let hey, I got
new stuff, Like stop talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
My uld Like that's like four bands ago for Jack.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Right seriously, and then like, but I do feel like
that part of the reason they put them in is
because they just want something that people have that Kurt
that like my generation does connect to.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
They want the big everybody on stage jam to seven
Nation Army this day?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yes, why not? That'd be great?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Actually, that would be really fun.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeh.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Here Paul Rodgers singing it.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Absolutely first, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So we should talk about the nominees that didn't make it,
and maybe let's do that after the break and we're
back on at first Listen, I'm Andrew Dominie and we're
(23:55):
here with Eric Wellman talking about who didn't make the
Rock and Roll Hall of to be nominated and then
not get in what a tease?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Oh so rude. Like the whole the whole way that
this award is made is so like ooh, we got you,
like okay, at least with like other wardships like.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You're famous enough for us to not give you anything.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But everything, everything is about the snubs. It isn't just this, no,
but it's the Oscars, and it's and it's the Grammys,
and it's yeah, I mean, snubs are are the best
part of all these things.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And so maybe that's why it's so popular to talk
about because like with the Oscars or Grammys, it's like, Okay,
nobody thinks that like the Titanic might win this year,
like you had that one chance and it's over. But
if they have a movie's Hall of Fame, right, they
keep coming back every year. They're like, uh, okay, that
movie that we snubbed ten years ago, actually we really
(24:50):
like it now.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But the Godfather didn't win Best Picture. But it's never going.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
To exactly exactly. So it's like this is actually so
it's so genius, but it's also such a big like undertaking,
because there's this whole thing of like, oh, like you said, like, oh,
we forgot about you at the time, and we didn't
appreciate them at the time, but they like kept making
music and created a body of work. But like, okay, Beethoven,
(25:15):
he's not in it. Why not? That's the real snub
of twenty twenty five, Well, yo is.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
In right, and they covered they covered.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Some Beethoven, Okay, but I guess.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Did they did roll over Beethoven. But it has the
Beethoven intro, so you know, you.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Know, Carmina Buranam whoever wrote.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
That that is that is the first, that's really the
first heavy metals.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
See exactly, you're on my side.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
So Carmina Barano, don't you know, yes you do.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I'm sure it's it is it is.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It is that classical piece that they use in every
like like medieval battle scene. Yeah, that one.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, sorry about I have to look it up.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But like right if outcast is you know Excalibur, Excalibur,
it's it's serious an Excalibur. Yeah, that's a wreck that's
been recorded. That one song could be in the rock
and roll. Like. I just think that the whole snubs
thing is this award is designed to snub everybody out
(26:18):
besides the people who are already in it. Yeah, or
we're getting into it this year.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Well, the one that everybody thought was a slam dunk
that didn't happen was Billy Idol. That was the one
that he's the most rocket people were so shocked. The
most rock and Roll Hall of Fame in person that
you can imagine.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But this is with Steve Stevens, a man who I've
heard of. Yeah, is that like? Because? Is that like?
It had to be both.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's a weird thing because the designation when it's a
solo artist and Billy Idol is a solo artist, it's
usually that's the only guy that gets in. But Steve
Stevens was such an integral part of his music, even
though his name wasn't on the record other than in
the writer credit, that did not have him with him
would have been very strange because they are absolutely intertwined.
(27:04):
But I can't believe Billy Idol didn't get it. I mean,
the the impact on music and pop culture in the
last forty years of that guy is undeniable. The Golden
Age of MTV wouldn't have been what it was without
Billy Idol. You know, he didn't just have hit songs.
He had five of the biggest videos in the history
of the first twenty years of MTV, like five of them.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And those.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
White Wedding Rebel Yell Cradle of Love, that's the best one,
by the way. Creative that's the best video, not the
best song, the best video U with Myself dancing with
myself that's four probably Oh Hot in the City, Oh yeah,
you know that was huge. And then he comes back
and he's got this second act of his career going
(27:51):
on now where he's actually making new music that actually
doesn't stink, which is amazing, and is on tour and
people are loving it, and he's he's the feature guy
in the in the in the the Workday commercial with
the like stop calling yourself rock stars, like Billie Idol
stole your golf cart like it's it's hilarious. He is.
He is not super serious about himself. He understands his
(28:16):
place in the world. I mean he is. He was
he in Happy.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Gilmore, Too Happy I've not seen I.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Don't know, well he was, but no, but he was
in Wedding Singer, right, That's like he's in Adam Sandler's world.
That's why I expect him to show up. He wasn't
in the original Happy Gilmore, but I would expect him
to show up. And I'm Saidler film again at this point.
But his his turn in Wedding Singer on the Airplane
was one of the funniest things I ever saw. You know,
he just grabs the microphone on the airplane and says,
(28:42):
you know, when you're a rock star, lets you do
anything you want. And he's right, they do, he is.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
It had to have been one of those things like that.
So there are voters. It's basically if you've been inducted,
you get a vote, and then if you're one of
the people that they want to have a vote, you
get right.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I'm supposed to be a voter, by the way, and
it never happened.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Which I don't think you'd be allowed to do this
podcast if you were a voter. It might be a conflict.
It doesn't matter, So that's good for us.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But so Billy.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Id'll definitely to me biggest snub.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
But it had to be just people wanted to vote
for who they didn't think would get in possible, so
they left Billy off because they figured he was such
a slam dunk to make it. Yeah, it's got to
be something like that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And the other part of it is like when you
go around saying that, oh, I'm definitely getting in, that's
probably the easiest way to not get in. That He
was in a couple of interviews like saying how he
fully expected to get to get in and it's quite
possible that oh you think so, Dia, Well we'll show
you and he'll get it.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Next to it, he'll.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Be nominated again and he that's a guy, biggest snub
and definitely will get corrected. That guy will get into
the Hall of Fame without a doubt. The Black Crows
didn't surprise me. It is it is what you know.
I love that band. I think they're amazing, but a
they're a niche audience and be second only to maybe
the other pand on hero Oasis is like just the
(30:07):
like jerks constantly to each other to the point where
you become unlikable.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I also feel like, like with the Black Crows and Oasis,
their time will come. Yeah. Like Soundgarden, you needed to
put them in soon. I don't think it had to
be this year, but it had to be soon. You
already lost the main guy when Chris Cornell passed away.
You got to recognize them soon. Chubby Checker, you forgot
(30:32):
about him for sixty years. He's eighty something. Put him
in while he can still enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I'm always looking for the oldies guy. Yeah, that's that bucket,
like true oldies. I know something like you probably thinks
of like all of my music as oldies. But then
then there's like the real like fifties and sixties oldies.
And Chubby Checker is one of the last guys still
doing it, still walking around that you could have had
up there, you know. In like in sports, we talk
(30:58):
about like first ballot Hall of Famers, guys who were
definitely getting in on the first try. I don't think
anyone on this snubble list was necessarily a first ballot
Hall of Famer, And I believe for the most part,
I think this is all their first time being nominated.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Correct, this is a second time. Mariah Carrey was second
time for Mariah okay, the rest, and the second time
I think for.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Fish Okay again, I think that will come.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Mana. I had never heard of No It's and I
checked with I was like, maybe it's. Maybe they're one
of those acts that all Hispanic people know about. And
I checked with granted, no one who is Mexican, but
checked with several Hispanic Latino people and no one could
confirm them, and nah exists.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
But yeah, so Maria Carry is the one that's the
most surprising, because well, I thought she was a lot
our our boss, who's a you know in iHeart.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Who was invited to do this episode, who's also the.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Chairman of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, was
Maria's first manager, and.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
She thanked him by name at the iHeartRadio Music Award.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
So somehow those things usually you know, yeah, it's the
voters are picking all these things, except you know, but
there's also when they're not.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
There is a fan vote, right, and the fan vote
is not very impactful, but I think the voting the
order has some influence on what the actual rock hall
voters make, the choices they make on their ballots. Mariah
Carrey was not very high up on the fan vote,
(32:27):
and I think that could only be because she didn't
want it that much. It was not a priority for
her because usually somebody that famous is like, hey, please
vote for me.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
And the Fish get Fish Universe. I mean, they're probably
second only to Rush in terms of in terms of activism.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Fish got the most fan votes right by far.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's like I feel like Mariah Carrey, It's like she
has plenty of time, like give hers some more, Just
give hers some more time. I feel like she is
almost It's like mostly she's riding high on the Christmas song,
Like she doesn't have new hits that people are stoked on.
Maybe she wants to, you know, be more of the
(33:08):
moment before she gets into the fame.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So she is the one who I thought would be
the the is she really rock the token pop star
bucket instead of outcasts? And I'm surprised that wasn't flipped.
But yeah, like you said, I think Mariah Will we'll
get her chance the same way shared it in the
same way.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know, Madonna.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me
as a classic rock guy, that they're in a rock
and roll Hall of fame. The argument always extends to, Okay,
then just call it the music Hall of Fame, because
then it's undeniable. But then that opens the door to
seventeen thousand other artists and then.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It is the same, but they just have a better
name for it.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
But it's not. It's you know what it is, it's
the cool music call of Fame. Sure, because you know
who's not getting into the rock and roll Hall of Fame.
You know, new kids on the block. That's not happening.
You know, it's just not going to happen. You're not
going to get Menudo, You're not going to get you know,
these pure pop top forty.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I could see in Sync making a run at it. Hmm,
there's a lot of passion.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I think it would have happened already.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I hope you're.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I hope you're. There's not one boy band, unless you
consider the Beatles a boy band. There's not one boy band.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I don't think you're a boy band if you write
your own material.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
But do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, did in Sync? I don't think so. Yeah that
was Yeah, So that's part of what gets in the way.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I actually, you know what this is. This is a
very interesting conversation that we stubble in the pot justin Timberlake.
I think we'll get him.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, he probably will. The most annoying guy.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
But the best Saturday Night Live host by far is
by far.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
That's a converse.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
He's a triple threat.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
So that's Saturday Night Live, Christmas Digital short a time.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Uh, what's Jamie Fox. He's a great host as well,
but he doesn't really do me anymore.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Well, we're petering out. I think that means Eric can
catch his train, and that sounds like an episode.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Maybe Dominique, let me just add one more thing to it.
Just remember that at the end of the day, this
is about entertainment, and this is this isn't just about voting.
This is about putting on a great, multifaceted show that
kind of encompasses all of the stuff in rock and roll.
And whether you believe that this is truly the will
of the voters one hundred percent or not, which I
(35:31):
do not, although I've been told that it definitely, most
definitely is, But I don't believe that for a second
that that this is the kind of thing where you
want to make sure you're hitting all these buckets to
put on a broad example of how great this music
is and how there's there's just I'm allowed to swear. Okay,
(35:53):
as they say, there's an ass for every seat. There's
an ass for.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Every seat standards of this podcast.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
That's that's fine, you know, And like I'm a weirdo
that you know, my favorite bands are The Grateful Dead
and Pink Floyd, But I also love Nine is Nails
and I also my son turned me onto Sabotan and
like that's the heaviest of weird Swedish heavy metal. It's
except it's really about historical battles in World War Two,
(36:19):
and like the weirdest thing I ever saw. But it
was great and and I love all these things. And
at the end of the day, I respect the fact
that that you don't have to like everything, but you
should have an open mind and listen to it and
think about it. And I would I would counter one
last thing to you, Dominique, that this is not a
list of people who are done. This is a list
(36:40):
of people you should learn about. That That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I do agree with.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
So if you don't know them, find out. Hey, thanks
for having me. This was fun.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Thank you so much. This was great. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
We're back with that first listen. I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I'm wrapping up our rock and Roll Hall of Fame reaction. Dominique,
what did you learn today?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I learned everything that I know about the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. I learned it today. So everybody
who listened to this knows exactly how much I know.
And that was a lot. I think it's it's actually
pretty much what I thought like, I think the name
does kind of explain it. It's the Hall of Fame.
(37:35):
It's like basically if you stamped on the Sports Hall
of Fame onto music kind of with rock and roll
and classic rock as like the bassline almost, it's like
almost like twentieth twentieth century music really, and it's but
it's also the matter of opinion of the people who
(37:57):
created it and the people who they added to it,
who are then going to be biased towards that at
the same time.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, and we need to as long as we're going
to keep this museum open, like, we need to keep
adding to it. That's sort of the the point behind
any hall of history. And you know where some people
quibble with, like Outcast or other major hip hop or
(38:25):
R and B or pop artists getting into the rock
and roll Hall of Fame. My argument is always this,
and it's probably not the first time I will say
this on this podcast, but if you believe that rock
or rock and roll is a still alive, still vibrant,
(38:48):
living breathing genre, then why would artists like Outcast or
The White Stripes or Madonna or Share or Justin Timberlake.
Maybe someday though I wish I didn't use that as
an example. Why would they not get in? You know,
(39:09):
we've put in these decidedly not rock artists like Robert Johnson,
other like blues artists are in the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame because that music was so integral to
the creation of this genre. But if people are still
making rock today, then why would you not honor their influences,
(39:31):
which don't all have to be rock bands, don't all
have to be rock artists. You know, if you're like
a kick ass singer, you probably paid a little bit
more attention to Mariah Carey when you were learning how
to sing, because she was really good at doing the
thing that you're trying to learn how to do. Like,
your influences as a musician, especially a contemporary one, especially
(39:54):
if you're making music after the year two thousand, are
not limited to the the confines of your genre. You know,
like Lincoln Park, a band that I hate so much,
they'll be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
one day. You don't think that they were influenced by
like Public Enemy or Ell Cool J. The combining of
(40:17):
hip hop into other genres like rock or heavy metal
is a real thing that happened, and you can't deny
it just because of the name of your museum.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Okay, yes, but I'm like, is rock not something that
has a guitar? I feel like if it's there should
be a guitar featured heavily in rock. That's like, and
you're saying that it doesn't need to be rock to
be in the Hall of Fame, but like, you know, Okay,
(40:49):
I'm a I'm a let's say I'm a football player.
I'm heavily influenced by Lebron James and his basketball playing,
but that doesn't make me a basketball Hall of Famer.
I'm a football man. So I'm like, there, it's just funny.
I feel like the real reason is because it's what
(41:10):
you're saying makes a lot of sense for the logic
of it that like, once you start dividing it, things
tend to get it just gets really messy, and it's
a messy concept.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Gets really messy and also gets very white.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
That's the real very male. Okay, we didn't talk. I
think that's the real actual reason that they're like, Okay,
if we only do, Rocket's gonna be like so many
white people and then black people who are dead.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, because you know, the this is a genre that
came out of black music, Like very has very direct
ancestors of music that came from Black American people, and
for some reason, as time went on, the genre tended
to I guess, appeal less to Black American people or
(41:53):
white black In the next white people elbowed them out.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, well it's like now, you know, if you go
a jazz show, it's going to be a majority white
people play music. It's going to be like black people
were like, okay, we came up with jazz, now we're
going to move on. But then white people are like, oh,
I'm act this is my whole personality now, and it's
really cool. Like I think that that's the way they'll
(42:17):
study this in Comorgne exactly very much that and like
exactly what I did, and same like discussing outcasts, you know,
that's what those artists did. Andre was like, I can't
keep up with hip hop. I'm just not going to
do it. I did my I did the thing that
I want to do with it, and now I'm a floutist,
a father and a friend.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
How about the Dad Hall of Fame exactly exactly. Yeah,
I do want to just pick at your sports analogy.
I think the the dividing lines for a sports Hall
of Famer, and why you wouldn't put a football player
in the basketball Hall of fame are the literal lines
of the field, Like they're very well defied confines of
(43:01):
what is football and what is basketball to shame were
in music, it's not so defined.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
No, And that's why it's a funny. That's why they
say My original point at the beginning of this episode
is it's a funny name. It's a good name because
it makes it seem like it's not subjective, and also
it makes it seem like it's really important and like
it's like a real thing, whereas it's just humans like
(43:28):
deciding it and it's specific ones. And it's also not
to mention like hall of fame, like the word fame itself.
It's about a broad influence, not about like all the
best them making all the best music, you know, because
we could get let's like, you know, we could go
(43:49):
to India. I'm sure a lot of these, you know,
like artists are inspired by a lot of music. You know,
we know like African drum beats, you know, we know
Caribbean music. You know all of these all of these genres,
like you know, what is it called, like world music
or what do they called it the Grammys? I think
(44:10):
it's world Yeah, like they are. Let's put them in
then too, Like you know, I feel like there is
an amount that it's like it's just a name and
it's kind of driving it. But ultimately.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
The fame part is pretty big too. You can't It's.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
True, it's true, but like famous to us Americans. Right.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Well, we when we went to go see the Dishonest
Escape Show a couple months ago, we sat down at
the bar with your friend Derek and he asked me
what my band is like, and I mentioned several bands
that no reaction, no recognition by him, and I was like, well,
(44:55):
they're a big deal to.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Me, man, Yeah, exactly exactly, And that's why we're gonna
do the at first listen Hall of Fame, and we're
gonna only put bands in there that nobody has heard of.
And that's gonna be the rule. You're not allowed to
be in it if anyone if we ask ten people
and they've heard of it, you're out.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
So we just go canvas web the street Bratt.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, exactly, depends the street you're on. You're on a
what is it Gay Street or Christopher Street? In the
West Village, there is a street called Gay Street. I'm
sure there is no there is, Yeah, it probably is. Well,
this is fun. I get why they do this. It's
a good reason to argue. And you don't just argue, Oh,
(45:43):
who should have won this year? Who did the best
album this year? No, we get to it's an opportunity
for everyone to argue about who's the best of all
time and who could possibly even remember or know who
all has already been in it? Like It's like that
was the biggest thing I thought about it.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I mentioned Robert Johnson, and I was going to say
other blues artists, but I'm not sure if other, Like
how many of the artists I would mention are actually
in the Hall of Fame. Let me actually check something
right now. Is Stevie Wonder in the rock and roll
that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
We know that sly Stone is in. Sly and the
Family Stone is in right because we saw it when
he got inducted in the documentary.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Of course, Stevie Wonder should be in and he is. Okay,
he was inducted in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Okay, so he which makes sense because his music that's
when it kind of started to be less good in
the nineties, Like his his best albums were before then,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Okay, Yeah, I don't think I've heard of Stevie Wonder
song from after nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, it's fine, but he's catching strays here. Yeah, go off, Stevie,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
That's that's what I'm talking about. Like Stevie Wonder. You're
going to argue that, no, he's not a rock artist,
but you're going to argue that he's not influential on
rock music, right. I mean, he has like the three
best albums of all time.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I'm coming back to my guitar argument. He does have
guitar a lot in his songs.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Dude, not necessarily a lot. Martin nine and She Nails
is in and I guess there are technically guitars in
some of those songs, but not all of them.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
See, this is a good It's also like me a
I guess I'm you know, I'm a rock fan more
than many, but like I feel like it's like, get
somebody who doesn't know about rock to be like I
think this is rock because it's not other stuff. Whereas
if it's people who are fans of rock, they like
you actually are like this, this is the genre of rock.
(47:42):
I don't know the instruments of nine Ince Nails that
they use. It's an Yeah, it seems you know, you
turn up the gay enough on all the screen knobs.
It's who knows what the sounds of.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I'm just not trying to take people out of the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I just want the
people who deserve it to get in while they're still alive.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, and that's valid.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
That is because it looks fun.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
It does look fun.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
You get to go to a big dinner at an
arena and yet to make a speech.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
And it's fun to have people in it who, like
otherwise wouldn't be there. It's like Mariah Carey could go,
where isn't she invited to? Like, yeah, she could go
if she's in. If she's not in, she could go
to the party either way, whereas maybe the Black Crows.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, like if Mariah Carey shows up at the American
Country Music Awards or whatever country music, whatever the hell
it's called, they're getting a letter in.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
If she shows up at the presidential inauguration. They're gonna
let her in. It's Mariah Carey. So it's like and
that's the whole I feel like that's what it comes
down to with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
is you should be able to say that sentence about it.
You should be able to see it's Billy Idol, come on,
They'll let him in anywhere where, which as it's like,
okay of a certain generation. Whereas yeah, I might have
(49:09):
I might be able to identify Billy Idol from the eighties.
But if the man today came walking by, I would
I would Kiki Palmer, I would say sorry to this man.
I have no idea who he is.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
I have a feeling you would recognize him.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Does he have old does he have like old rocker
man hairstyle and beads and stuff like that like it?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I don't know about. I think it's more of a
stud like the leather and studs type of vibe. But
he looks very much like Billy Idle. Not a good example.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
We we could do. We could do. We should do
one of those like things where it's like, identify this
rocker man and put like him and make Jagger or
whatever next to each other and see if I know
which ones which. Okay, that's not a good example, because
but those the only two I can think of right now.
The next exactly exactly, Well, this is fun.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Well that was our first reaction. Tell us about yours
at at first Listen podcast on Instagram and dominate. Do
you have anything to plug?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, if you want to hear more from me, you
can check out You see Black at Upright Citizens Brigade
Theater at Union Square on May. It's May right, May thirty,
first at eight thirty. It's going to be a blast,
a all black variety show, comedy and improv and such.
(50:34):
Checking me out.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Thank you so much for listening. Please subscribe so you
don't miss an episode, and we'll be back next time.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Her
Welcome to at First Listen, the music podcast for people
who don't always get the hype but want to.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique, and today our guest is Eric Wellman.
He's the program director of Q and A four point three,
New York's Classic Rock and the head of the classic
rock radio format at iHeartRadio. Today we are talking about
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, a subject with
which Eric has some level of familiarity, maybe less familiarity
(00:42):
every year, Eric, would you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
No, Well, I'm familiar with the argument that's been going
on since it was founded, like the first ten years
of the rock since they.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Realized they couldn't induct Eric Clapton every single right for something.
They were like, we're.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Talking about ten years to get controversial. For ten years,
it was like all right, the Beatles, all right, the
Beatles solo all right, Led Zeppelin all right, the Rolling Stones, yeah,
and like you know, unanimous, no questions. But then once
you ran out of the first ballot, guys, and the
arguments began, and it's been that way for thirty years.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm glad to have you here because all of that
was like a very helpful information. I think it's such
a hotly debated topic that like even finding out just
kind of vague background information is kind of hard, Like
it's a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Dominique made the mistake of being like, I don't feel
like I know a lot about this by text, and
I just wrote her I don't know, like a few
paragraphs and was.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Like, sorry, well, here's the way I think about it.
In sports, the halls of fame.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
There are already over my head, but.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
There are thresholds. They're like, if you're in baseball and
you got three thousand hits, you're going in the Hall
of fame.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That's like, there's no one who's quantile, no one who's had.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Three thousand hits who has not made the Hall of Fame.
And that could happen now that someone playing today could
eventually hit that mark and they're going to go in
the Hall of fame. In music, pretty hard to say
where there's going to be another Rolling Stones or Beetles
or are unanimous, no question about it. This person did
(02:25):
so many things that are undeniable that they go in
the Hall of fame. So then it becomes the most
subjective thing in the world, because music is exactly that
it's subjective. Everyone has their personal tastes and likes and dislikes,
and that's what's beautiful about it that we can argue
about it forever and that's why it's fun. But at
the same time, it's also really really frustrating sometimes when
(02:46):
you see artists that you think, like, this is ridiculous,
how are they not in the Hall of Fame? Or
this is ridiculous? Why are they in the Hall of Fame?
And then the bigger question of what's rock?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Exactly? That bigger question, right, Yeah, No, I think there's
like two things with that. One side is like part
of it is that we just can't retire things. We
can't be like we did it. We made the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame, true, close the door, good
job rock, and we're gonna move on to disco. Yeah exactly.
Then Also I'm like, okay, well I'll just be like, yeah,
(03:22):
the Dominic awards of the best coolest stuff, and now
everyone needs to care about that because I said so, Like,
obviously they've built it into a thing that like matters
because of the people who are part of it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And supposedly has a charity component too, supposedly, but no,
it does for real.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I'm just it's a hoax.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
But I just I just remember when Steve Miller band
went on that Steve Miller, the person, not the Yes,
went on that rant and called them all like thugs
and gangsters. He was gonna exposed them, and then he
just didn't.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Really no, because there's really not much to expose and
what is he getting? Wait and savory businessmen and the
music go on. I don't believe it.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I know them are in the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But yeah, I just think it's funny that, like it's
a really good name for an award, like rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. Okay, that sounds like it's like
a real thing, like the sports Hall of Fame, where
it's like it's a quantifiable thing. But it's just a
name of an award that some people came up with
and they like they say that there's like can you like,
can you can you talk about a little bit more
(04:28):
about the exact you know, what are the how to
become eligible?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Well, the the main rule is you have to be
twenty five years out from your first commercial release, and
that means, you know, not the indie thing that you
you know, pressed yourself and sent to your friends. But
the first thing that was put on a record by
a legitimate company and put out into the world. So
the the thing about that years very much so, but
(04:55):
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It's the rapper. Is he not eligible?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I don't know my son my always you know, he
started calling me unk even though I'm his dad, because
I love But the reality is to think about what
twenty five years it means now. And there are artists
that we play on our classic rock stations that probably
wouldn't want to be called classic rock, but then here
they are in the Hall of fame. Like you know,
Pearl Jam and Nirvana and Green Day and these guys
are you know, weren't in the pantheon even you know,
(05:21):
twenty years ago, and now they are because we started
playing them because we realized that, yeah they're rock. They fit.
It's fine.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
What do you think was the quickest turnaround from like
active rock radio to classic rock radio by one of
those artists Food Fighters, Foo Fighters, Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
No question. So, like we went from not playing them
at all to them being a pretty regular artst and
they're not an A list artist yet at this point,
but they are common to almost all of our classic.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Rocks, so like within ten years less.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Less they We didn't play them probably before the pandemic
in a regular way, and then all of a sudden,
in the last five years, we have a half a
dozen titles that are regularly played without a doubt, and
another four or five that are occasionally played.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
When you say a list, what does that mean, is
that like a specific list.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
No, No, just like there's a artists that that are like,
you know, Mount Rushmore kind of guys where there's a
body of work. You know, classic rock is very much
an artist format. It isn't a single format top forty.
You can have one song and that's it, and that's
your career. And there certainly are one hit wonders in rock,
but not that many of them because we mostly were
rerelated to albums and you put out an album of
(06:33):
ten songs and hopefully had a couple of hits, and
then you made another album and that was the way
it went well. In artists like the Beatles. If we
did a Beatles eight to Z weekend, there's two hundred
and something songs that we play from the Beatles, And.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
There's artists that if you're tuning into classic rock rady
you expect to hear no matter. There's variations depending on
the city. Some cities lean more seventies, some more eighties,
some more heavy metal, some more pop.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
An a artists, you're going to hear every couple hours.
That's that's really what it comes down to. And to
do that you have to have a body of work
that's worth it, because we don't do the repetition thing
like a Top forty station, would you know it is
the one hundred is going to play the biggest song
that they played ninety times a week. We're going to
play our biggest song nine times a week. And that's
you know. So you need to be an a artist.
(07:21):
You need a body of work.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Right. So when you said food Fighters isn't an a
artist yet, I thought that was interesting because it's like, Okay,
we're just waiting for waiting for them to come up
with come out with their act, the real biggest hit,
Like what is that Taste change?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, it's it's it's I always talk about it because
if if you go back in the way back machine
to the early two thousands, that was when like Pearl
Jam was a was a oh should we play this
new edition, and then we started playing it were on
the bubble, and I always described as like, we need
to evolve, because otherwise we're going to ride with We
can either ride with this audience off the cliff and die,
(08:02):
or we can keep bringing new artists into it. And
the beauty of this particular format is it is extremely
multi generational. When I first started in the business in
the nineties, you would see a dad and his kid,
and then ten fifteen years later you go to a
concert and you'd see that dad and his kid and
maybe their grandkid. And now there's actually easily fourth generation
(08:26):
classic rock listeners who learned from their dad, who learn
from their dad, who learned from their dad who was
around in the sixties when the music was made, and
passed it down to their kids. And I call that
good parenting. And it's also the reason why, to this day,
you know, this format is one of the few that
really I mean, we've added on the younger end in
(08:46):
terms of artists. We've added the nineties artists and some
of the two thousands of artists into our pantheon, and
yet we're still playing the artist from the sixties. Yeah,
maybe not in the same frequency. What they're there.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
One of the things that makes Eric's job really interesting
because he sees all the research on this that goes
into what gets played on the radio is that, yes,
like segments of the audience get older, and they will
maybe gravitate more to music that they remember from when
they were kids, like the Food Fighters are Green Day
or the White Stripes whatever. But then also, for whatever reason,
(09:20):
maybe they're really into Neil Young or they're really into
the Doors, and they're really into like this stuff that's
way older and maybe not necessarily connected to the music
of you know, their generation.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And then the funny thing that goes back to this
argument about the rock call, and it goes back to
this argument about the rock hall and who belongs and
who doesn't, is that it's counterintuitive, but we find that,
or at least I find that the younger audience it's
they insist on the purity, and the older audience is like,
I've had enough the Doors, what's that food Fighter's band?
(09:52):
Who's that Dave Grohl.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
See the one who did that terrible thing to his what, Yeah,
let me hear that music, And they don't have that
same level of Well, I listened to classic rock station
because I want to listen to the Rolling Stones and
how dare you play artist X from the last twenty years?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And it's just funny that way. So when you see
the inductees, they're the ones who are most likely going
to be screaming from the top of the mountains about
how could you possibly do this and not do that?
And it really is interesting how it's kind of upside
down for what you'd expect. You know, it's not Grandpa
Simpson on is, you know, shaking his fist at clouds.
It's actually Bart who's the one who gets pissed.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So that's funny, all right. I think that's a first segment,
and we'll come back after the break. We'll talk about
who actually got into the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame this year in twenty twenty five, who didn't make it,
and what surprises did we see in those lists. So
we'll be right back on a first Listening. Welcome back
(11:03):
to at First Listen. I'm Andrew and we're back with
Derek Wellman of iHeartRadio and Q one of four point
three New York. So Eric, the twenty twenty five Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame inductees were bad company. Chubby Checker,
who was maybe the headliner because everyone was like, he's
still alive, the Mandela effect. Yeah, Joe Cocker, Cyndi Lauper
(11:28):
out cast, Soundgarden and the White Stripes. So a question
I asked you earlier today, which one of the inductees
did you think was absolutely a lock to get in
this year?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Man, Well, it's it's one of the ones who actually
didn't make it in who I thought was a lock.
He thought he was a lock. But we'll do that later, Okay.
So who was in that was probably getting in no
matter what aldi I think it was probably Soundgarden. Really,
I think the sympathy vote matters immensely. And Chris Cornell,
I mean, that hit so hard to so many people,
(12:05):
myself included. Yeah, I mean six months before he passed,
I was standing next to him at the Garden at
a U two show. We were both there by ourselves
and it was like, hey, hey, and you two is
one of my favorite artists to see in concert ever.
And I'm standing there in this little just taking industry
section with Chris Cornell watching this like that. That was
(12:25):
the craziest thing seeing the fandom from the artists. Oh,
it's always great, and then he's and then he's gone,
and it's like, oh my god, one of the most
amazing voices. And and that band was you know, they
were the third grunge band, right. It was obviously Pearl
Jam and Nirvana, right, and then they were a close third.
(12:46):
And and the fact that they were in the same
circles as Pearl Jam.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
They were kind of the the first band in terms
of that scene because they were like the older ones,
and they were the ones that everybody looked up to.
But they were kind of the I guess, the third
of the floor band for the Big four to hit.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
And then you had the Temple of the Dog thing
with the collab and you know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
One off, which is one of the greatest albums of the.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Second really amazing. So I thought that was a lock.
I if they had not been on that list, I
would have been shocked.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, which of these surprised you? You thought Sound Garden
was a lock?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The two that that well, I wouldn't say it surprised me.
The one that surprised me the most is Outcast because
that goes to the question of what rock right. Sure,
you know, I'm familiar with their music. I you know,
heard Hey Ya, and you know the.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Music from that album, all that was inescapable. It helps
that it was a double album and there were hits
on every side, but.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Never a rock act. Sure, So that's there's always that question,
and not nearly the body of work that a lot
of the other are they rock and roll people who
have gotten into the Hall of Fame in recent years
have had So it kind of goes to my other one,
which is why stripes And one of the one of
(14:02):
the issues I've had with the rock call for the
longest time isn't so much the definition of what's rock,
but the definition of what's influential. And you know, why
are they there? And the one I always come back to,
you know, God bless her is Patti Smith. Sure, and
you know to me, Patty Smith, I don't want to
use the word overrated, because that's not the thing. It's
(14:24):
not about how good she is as an artist. Overvalued
Is that the word I'm looking for, Because as far
as I know, in the grand scheme of things, Patty
Smith has one hit and it was written by Bruce Springstein.
So okay, she's influential, is she? Because who did she influence.
I know she hung out with you on winter and
(14:44):
that sometimes was enough, especially in the early days of
the Rock Hall. But she's she's always the example I
put out there, like show me what the thing is here?
Where is that coming from? So with that said, that's
why the Outcast surprised me, only because you know, where's
the body of work, where is the the overall influence. Yeah,
(15:07):
they had a moment in time where they were huge
and that was it. And then what's happened since you
know they kind of went their separate ways? Is there
a big boy thing that I'm missing that or you know,
did Andre has done more as an actor I think
than as a as a musician.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Sometimes he's the more as a theoretical actor.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
That's that works. So that one, you know, was.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That Jimmy Hendrix's biopic that was years I think No, I.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Agree honestly about the Outcast thing. I was kind of
like same as you like what I just think that
it does seem like it needs to be a bigger
body of work and that like both of those guys
have been more influential, even as like being behind the
scenes and just existing as artists separately.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Maybe they should have gotten a Musical Excellence Award.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Maybe they should have, but it seems like there's so
there's buckets, right, and and the buckets that you see
every year that it's like, all right, we're gonna put
someone in that doesn't make sense, and that's their bucket.
The White Stripes is the other one that kind of
surprised me where it's a it's the bucket of really
avant garde artistic folks who you know, didn't do a
(16:21):
whole lot, but what they did was was was big
and bold and different, and we should honor that, all right.
You know when you when you listen to the White Stripes,
you know, it's seven Nation Army and I think I'm out,
I guess, I guess. But but did they have legs?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Are they still there? But but look what they did
with two people is astounding, Like that band made a
sound that you shouldn't be able to make with two people.
And and that's that I give them credit for. When
you create a different form of the music, props and
and and you successful at it, and they were clearly
(17:01):
successful at it. But it was it was definitely a
shooting star just boom. It was here and it was gone.
But now I would I would honor Jack White just
with what he's done beyond as a as a producer
to bring Vinyl back to all that. He's put his
hands in so many different places in a good way.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
He's sort of like Dave Grohl in a way with
his relationship to the rock format, where he as an
individual is more influential perhaps than his music or as
an ambassador of the music.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
And he's a huge connector. Yeah, he's a huge connector
of disparate things. And you always see Jack White sitting
next to someone and you're like, what is a what
is that person doing hanging out with Jack White? And
it's like if he turned around tomorrow and you know,
was was sitting next to a United States Senator at
a dinner, you'd be like, huh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
He'll probably he'll probably show up to the awards with outcasts.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Or like he walks out of the papal conclave. That
would be like Zach White was a cardinal.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I agree with you that for me, the White Stripes
was also the most surprising one, more so than Outcast,
because especially for my generation, Outcast was a gigantic artist
at this point with the rock hall, you just kind
of expect some of these are going to get in.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Right, Suel Upper for sure, bad company, you know, that's
that's the bucket of a classic rock act that we
overlooked that really deserves to be in there. There's always
going to be somebody, all right, who have we snubbed
a thousand times? All right, let's put them in. And
that that's bad company, Chubby Checker. If you've invented a dance,
you win. Maybe not, but but you know, the twist
(18:47):
and then returned to the twist and son of twist
and the twist some more. Yeah, So okay, Chubby, we
got it. Yeah. And and the Mandel effect is funny
like people you know, like how many years was Mandela
thought to be dead and he was still very much alive?
And Chubby Checker, I think he's still very much alive.
It's the same thing. Joe Cocker. That's that's a guy
(19:08):
that I still remember this in a quote. I think
it was Paul McCartney. You said it, who said that
a song has not truly been sung until Joe Cocker
sings it. Like when a guy like that says that
about you, you're in the Hall of Fame and the
fact that it took this long as a sting.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Let me let me echo your point about Patty Smith
with Joe Cocker. His biggest hit was written by John
Lennon and Paul McCartin. Yeah, and after that, what is
the rest of the catalog?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Well, there's another one by John Lennon and Paul McCarty, Okay,
and then there's Delta Lady, and there's the Letter, and
there's I mean he had and he played at Woodstock
and and that's no small thing and was one of
the best acts at Woodstock. And honoring the history is
also part of what the Rock and Hall of Fame
is about. Yeah, And and that I think is the
historic choice that is in that bucket.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Do you think Bad Company like so Division in New
Order not inducted? These are two bands that were they're
combining basically two catalogs because the principal members are the same.
Is that except for one right who passed away? Is
that how come it's not Bad Company and Free?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Uh? Well, I think Simon Kirk would would say that, like,
you know, Free, they had one song and then they
realized that they didn't have another one. And so you
know that that got their foot in the door. But
you know, joy division to New Order is a different concept.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I think, yeah, I mean, I guess it's.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, it's it's almost like, you know, it's the same
group part A and part B, whereas with Bad Company,
free was the appetizer and then Bad Company was the
main course.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But is there a Bad Company song on classic rock
radio that it outperforms a free song like aren't the
isn't like feel like Making Love the biggest song from that?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
If you're talking about my research head my research, I
would probably tell you that that the free song is
probably the best researching song that they have. But it's
not of it's not light years ahead, it's not like
the best song. And then all the Bad Company stuff
comes in behind, and there's a half a dozen Bad
Company songs they get regular, and there's one free song.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Okay. So part of the reason I didn't know how
to prepare for this was because I was like, Okay,
don't know that, don't know this, don't know him, heard
of her? No one song, like I don't know any
of the like. I would have to do so much
research to actually be able to give an opinion on
this besides for Outcast White Stripes, and I guess Mariah Carey,
(21:46):
like I think that there is this like okay it is.
It's almost like to me, being in the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame is like and we're done with
you now, Like it's almost like you had your time
and you're You're a part of history. That's also in
(22:06):
a moment.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
In many cases, it's the police come back now because
there's so many groups that get inducted into the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame and that sparks their big
reunion tour and their resurgence. And that's one of the
reasons I wanted to stop down on the White Stripes
because like, I don't know why you would give them
this award now they will not come back. I don't
(22:30):
think there's really a desire for them to come back.
And I was a huge, huge fan back in the day.
I have all of their albums, uh, even the bad Ones,
which are most of them, And I don't know why
you would put the White Stripes in at this point
when you could put in Billy Idol or Mariah Carr.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And same with Outcast, it's.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
The oasis, who is who's already doing the reunion tour thing.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I'm like if I was Andre and big Boy, like
I'm sick of hearing about outcasts, you know. Same with
same with Jack White. It's like, let hey, I got
new stuff, Like stop talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
My uld Like that's like four bands ago for Jack.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Right seriously, and then like, but I do feel like
that part of the reason they put them in is
because they just want something that people have that Kurt
that like my generation does connect to.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
They want the big everybody on stage jam to seven
Nation Army this day?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yes, why not? That'd be great?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Actually, that would be really fun.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeh.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Here Paul Rodgers singing it.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Absolutely first, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So we should talk about the nominees that didn't make it,
and maybe let's do that after the break and we're
back on at first Listen, I'm Andrew Dominie and we're
(23:55):
here with Eric Wellman talking about who didn't make the
Rock and Roll Hall of to be nominated and then
not get in what a tease?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Oh so rude. Like the whole the whole way that
this award is made is so like ooh, we got you,
like okay, at least with like other wardships like.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You're famous enough for us to not give you anything.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But everything, everything is about the snubs. It isn't just this, no,
but it's the Oscars, and it's and it's the Grammys,
and it's yeah, I mean, snubs are are the best
part of all these things.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And so maybe that's why it's so popular to talk
about because like with the Oscars or Grammys, it's like, Okay,
nobody thinks that like the Titanic might win this year,
like you had that one chance and it's over. But
if they have a movie's Hall of Fame, right, they
keep coming back every year. They're like, uh, okay, that
movie that we snubbed ten years ago, actually we really
(24:50):
like it now.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But the Godfather didn't win Best Picture. But it's never going.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
To exactly exactly. So it's like this is actually so
it's so genius, but it's also such a big like undertaking,
because there's this whole thing of like, oh, like you said, like, oh,
we forgot about you at the time, and we didn't
appreciate them at the time, but they like kept making
music and created a body of work. But like, okay, Beethoven,
(25:15):
he's not in it. Why not? That's the real snub
of twenty twenty five, Well, yo is.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
In right, and they covered they covered.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Some Beethoven, Okay, but I guess.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Did they did roll over Beethoven. But it has the
Beethoven intro, so you know, you.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Know, Carmina Buranam whoever wrote.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
That that is that is the first, that's really the
first heavy metals.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
See exactly, you're on my side.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
So Carmina Barano, don't you know, yes you do.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I'm sure it's it is it is.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It is that classical piece that they use in every
like like medieval battle scene. Yeah, that one.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, sorry about I have to look it up.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But like right if outcast is you know Excalibur, Excalibur,
it's it's serious an Excalibur. Yeah, that's a wreck that's
been recorded. That one song could be in the rock
and roll. Like. I just think that the whole snubs
thing is this award is designed to snub everybody out
(26:18):
besides the people who are already in it. Yeah, or
we're getting into it this year.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Well, the one that everybody thought was a slam dunk
that didn't happen was Billy Idol. That was the one
that he's the most rocket people were so shocked. The
most rock and Roll Hall of Fame in person that
you can imagine.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But this is with Steve Stevens, a man who I've
heard of. Yeah, is that like? Because? Is that like?
It had to be both.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's a weird thing because the designation when it's a
solo artist and Billy Idol is a solo artist, it's
usually that's the only guy that gets in. But Steve
Stevens was such an integral part of his music, even
though his name wasn't on the record other than in
the writer credit, that did not have him with him
would have been very strange because they are absolutely intertwined.
(27:04):
But I can't believe Billy Idol didn't get it. I mean,
the the impact on music and pop culture in the
last forty years of that guy is undeniable. The Golden
Age of MTV wouldn't have been what it was without
Billy Idol. You know, he didn't just have hit songs.
He had five of the biggest videos in the history
of the first twenty years of MTV, like five of them.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And those.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
White Wedding Rebel Yell Cradle of Love, that's the best one,
by the way. Creative that's the best video, not the
best song, the best video U with Myself dancing with
myself that's four probably Oh Hot in the City, Oh yeah,
you know that was huge. And then he comes back
and he's got this second act of his career going
(27:51):
on now where he's actually making new music that actually
doesn't stink, which is amazing, and is on tour and
people are loving it, and he's he's the feature guy
in the in the in the the Workday commercial with
the like stop calling yourself rock stars, like Billie Idol
stole your golf cart like it's it's hilarious. He is.
He is not super serious about himself. He understands his
(28:16):
place in the world. I mean he is. He was
he in Happy.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Gilmore, Too Happy I've not seen I.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Don't know, well he was, but no, but he was
in Wedding Singer, right, That's like he's in Adam Sandler's world.
That's why I expect him to show up. He wasn't
in the original Happy Gilmore, but I would expect him
to show up. And I'm Saidler film again at this point.
But his his turn in Wedding Singer on the Airplane
was one of the funniest things I ever saw. You know,
he just grabs the microphone on the airplane and says,
(28:42):
you know, when you're a rock star, lets you do
anything you want. And he's right, they do, he is.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
It had to have been one of those things like that.
So there are voters. It's basically if you've been inducted,
you get a vote, and then if you're one of
the people that they want to have a vote, you
get right.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I'm supposed to be a voter, by the way, and
it never happened.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Which I don't think you'd be allowed to do this
podcast if you were a voter. It might be a conflict.
It doesn't matter, So that's good for us.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But so Billy.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Id'll definitely to me biggest snub.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
But it had to be just people wanted to vote
for who they didn't think would get in possible, so
they left Billy off because they figured he was such
a slam dunk to make it. Yeah, it's got to
be something like that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And the other part of it is like when you
go around saying that, oh, I'm definitely getting in, that's
probably the easiest way to not get in. That He
was in a couple of interviews like saying how he
fully expected to get to get in and it's quite
possible that oh you think so, Dia, Well we'll show
you and he'll get it.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Next to it, he'll.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Be nominated again and he that's a guy, biggest snub
and definitely will get corrected. That guy will get into
the Hall of Fame without a doubt. The Black Crows
didn't surprise me. It is it is what you know.
I love that band. I think they're amazing, but a
they're a niche audience and be second only to maybe
the other pand on hero Oasis is like just the
(30:07):
like jerks constantly to each other to the point where
you become unlikable.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I also feel like, like with the Black Crows and Oasis,
their time will come. Yeah. Like Soundgarden, you needed to
put them in soon. I don't think it had to
be this year, but it had to be soon. You
already lost the main guy when Chris Cornell passed away.
You got to recognize them soon. Chubby Checker, you forgot
(30:32):
about him for sixty years. He's eighty something. Put him
in while he can still enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I'm always looking for the oldies guy. Yeah, that's that bucket,
like true oldies. I know something like you probably thinks
of like all of my music as oldies. But then
then there's like the real like fifties and sixties oldies.
And Chubby Checker is one of the last guys still
doing it, still walking around that you could have had
up there, you know. In like in sports, we talk
(30:58):
about like first ballot Hall of Famers, guys who were
definitely getting in on the first try. I don't think
anyone on this snubble list was necessarily a first ballot
Hall of Famer, And I believe for the most part,
I think this is all their first time being nominated.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Correct, this is a second time. Mariah Carrey was second
time for Mariah okay, the rest, and the second time
I think for.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Fish Okay again, I think that will come.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Mana. I had never heard of No It's and I
checked with I was like, maybe it's. Maybe they're one
of those acts that all Hispanic people know about. And
I checked with granted, no one who is Mexican, but
checked with several Hispanic Latino people and no one could
confirm them, and nah exists.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
But yeah, so Maria Carry is the one that's the
most surprising, because well, I thought she was a lot
our our boss, who's a you know in iHeart.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Who was invited to do this episode, who's also the.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Chairman of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, was
Maria's first manager, and.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
She thanked him by name at the iHeartRadio Music Award.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
So somehow those things usually you know, yeah, it's the
voters are picking all these things, except you know, but
there's also when they're not.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
There is a fan vote, right, and the fan vote
is not very impactful, but I think the voting the
order has some influence on what the actual rock hall
voters make, the choices they make on their ballots. Mariah
Carrey was not very high up on the fan vote,
(32:27):
and I think that could only be because she didn't
want it that much. It was not a priority for
her because usually somebody that famous is like, hey, please
vote for me.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
And the Fish get Fish Universe. I mean, they're probably
second only to Rush in terms of in terms of activism.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Fish got the most fan votes right by far.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's like I feel like Mariah Carrey, It's like she
has plenty of time, like give hers some more, Just
give hers some more time. I feel like she is
almost It's like mostly she's riding high on the Christmas song,
Like she doesn't have new hits that people are stoked on.
Maybe she wants to, you know, be more of the
(33:08):
moment before she gets into the fame.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So she is the one who I thought would be
the the is she really rock the token pop star
bucket instead of outcasts? And I'm surprised that wasn't flipped.
But yeah, like you said, I think Mariah Will we'll
get her chance the same way shared it in the
same way.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know, Madonna.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me
as a classic rock guy, that they're in a rock
and roll Hall of fame. The argument always extends to, Okay,
then just call it the music Hall of Fame, because
then it's undeniable. But then that opens the door to
seventeen thousand other artists and then.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It is the same, but they just have a better
name for it.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
But it's not. It's you know what it is, it's
the cool music call of Fame. Sure, because you know
who's not getting into the rock and roll Hall of Fame.
You know, new kids on the block. That's not happening.
You know, it's just not going to happen. You're not
going to get Menudo, You're not going to get you know,
these pure pop top forty.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I could see in Sync making a run at it. Hmm,
there's a lot of passion.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I think it would have happened already.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I hope you're.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I hope you're. There's not one boy band, unless you
consider the Beatles a boy band. There's not one boy band.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I don't think you're a boy band if you write
your own material.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
But do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, did in Sync? I don't think so. Yeah that
was Yeah, So that's part of what gets in the way.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I actually, you know what this is. This is a
very interesting conversation that we stubble in the pot justin Timberlake.
I think we'll get him.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, he probably will. The most annoying guy.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
But the best Saturday Night Live host by far is
by far.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
That's a converse.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
He's a triple threat.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
So that's Saturday Night Live, Christmas Digital short a time.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Uh, what's Jamie Fox. He's a great host as well,
but he doesn't really do me anymore.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Well, we're petering out. I think that means Eric can
catch his train, and that sounds like an episode.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Maybe Dominique, let me just add one more thing to it.
Just remember that at the end of the day, this
is about entertainment, and this is this isn't just about voting.
This is about putting on a great, multifaceted show that
kind of encompasses all of the stuff in rock and roll.
And whether you believe that this is truly the will
of the voters one hundred percent or not, which I
(35:31):
do not, although I've been told that it definitely, most
definitely is, But I don't believe that for a second
that that this is the kind of thing where you
want to make sure you're hitting all these buckets to
put on a broad example of how great this music
is and how there's there's just I'm allowed to swear. Okay,
(35:53):
as they say, there's an ass for every seat. There's
an ass for.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Every seat standards of this podcast.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
That's that's fine, you know, And like I'm a weirdo
that you know, my favorite bands are The Grateful Dead
and Pink Floyd, But I also love Nine is Nails
and I also my son turned me onto Sabotan and
like that's the heaviest of weird Swedish heavy metal. It's
except it's really about historical battles in World War Two,
(36:19):
and like the weirdest thing I ever saw. But it
was great and and I love all these things. And
at the end of the day, I respect the fact
that that you don't have to like everything, but you
should have an open mind and listen to it and
think about it. And I would I would counter one
last thing to you, Dominique, that this is not a
list of people who are done. This is a list
(36:40):
of people you should learn about. That That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I do agree with.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
So if you don't know them, find out. Hey, thanks
for having me. This was fun.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Thank you so much. This was great. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
We're back with that first listen. I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I'm wrapping up our rock and Roll Hall of Fame reaction. Dominique,
what did you learn today?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I learned everything that I know about the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. I learned it today. So everybody
who listened to this knows exactly how much I know.
And that was a lot. I think it's it's actually
pretty much what I thought like, I think the name
does kind of explain it. It's the Hall of Fame.
(37:35):
It's like basically if you stamped on the Sports Hall
of Fame onto music kind of with rock and roll
and classic rock as like the bassline almost, it's like
almost like twentieth twentieth century music really, and it's but
it's also the matter of opinion of the people who
(37:57):
created it and the people who they added to it,
who are then going to be biased towards that at
the same time.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, and we need to as long as we're going
to keep this museum open, like, we need to keep
adding to it. That's sort of the the point behind
any hall of history. And you know where some people
quibble with, like Outcast or other major hip hop or
(38:25):
R and B or pop artists getting into the rock
and roll Hall of Fame. My argument is always this,
and it's probably not the first time I will say
this on this podcast, but if you believe that rock
or rock and roll is a still alive, still vibrant,
(38:48):
living breathing genre, then why would artists like Outcast or
The White Stripes or Madonna or Share or Justin Timberlake.
Maybe someday though I wish I didn't use that as
an example. Why would they not get in? You know,
(39:09):
we've put in these decidedly not rock artists like Robert Johnson,
other like blues artists are in the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame because that music was so integral to
the creation of this genre. But if people are still
making rock today, then why would you not honor their influences,
(39:31):
which don't all have to be rock bands, don't all
have to be rock artists. You know, if you're like
a kick ass singer, you probably paid a little bit
more attention to Mariah Carey when you were learning how
to sing, because she was really good at doing the
thing that you're trying to learn how to do. Like,
your influences as a musician, especially a contemporary one, especially
(39:54):
if you're making music after the year two thousand, are
not limited to the the confines of your genre. You know,
like Lincoln Park, a band that I hate so much,
they'll be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
one day. You don't think that they were influenced by
like Public Enemy or Ell Cool J. The combining of
(40:17):
hip hop into other genres like rock or heavy metal
is a real thing that happened, and you can't deny
it just because of the name of your museum.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Okay, yes, but I'm like, is rock not something that
has a guitar? I feel like if it's there should
be a guitar featured heavily in rock. That's like, and
you're saying that it doesn't need to be rock to
be in the Hall of Fame, but like, you know, Okay,
(40:49):
I'm a I'm a let's say I'm a football player.
I'm heavily influenced by Lebron James and his basketball playing,
but that doesn't make me a basketball Hall of Famer.
I'm a football man. So I'm like, there, it's just funny.
I feel like the real reason is because it's what
(41:10):
you're saying makes a lot of sense for the logic
of it that like, once you start dividing it, things
tend to get it just gets really messy, and it's
a messy concept.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Gets really messy and also gets very white.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
That's the real very male. Okay, we didn't talk. I
think that's the real actual reason that they're like, Okay,
if we only do, Rocket's gonna be like so many
white people and then black people who are dead.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, because you know, the this is a genre that
came out of black music, Like very has very direct
ancestors of music that came from Black American people, and
for some reason, as time went on, the genre tended
to I guess, appeal less to Black American people or
(41:53):
white black In the next white people elbowed them out.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, well it's like now, you know, if you go
a jazz show, it's going to be a majority white
people play music. It's going to be like black people
were like, okay, we came up with jazz, now we're
going to move on. But then white people are like, oh,
I'm act this is my whole personality now, and it's
really cool. Like I think that that's the way they'll
(42:17):
study this in Comorgne exactly very much that and like
exactly what I did, and same like discussing outcasts, you know,
that's what those artists did. Andre was like, I can't
keep up with hip hop. I'm just not going to
do it. I did my I did the thing that
I want to do with it, and now I'm a floutist,
a father and a friend.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
How about the Dad Hall of Fame exactly exactly. Yeah,
I do want to just pick at your sports analogy.
I think the the dividing lines for a sports Hall
of Famer, and why you wouldn't put a football player
in the basketball Hall of fame are the literal lines
of the field, Like they're very well defied confines of
(43:01):
what is football and what is basketball to shame were
in music, it's not so defined.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
No, And that's why it's a funny. That's why they
say My original point at the beginning of this episode
is it's a funny name. It's a good name because
it makes it seem like it's not subjective, and also
it makes it seem like it's really important and like
it's like a real thing, whereas it's just humans like
(43:28):
deciding it and it's specific ones. And it's also not
to mention like hall of fame, like the word fame itself.
It's about a broad influence, not about like all the
best them making all the best music, you know, because
we could get let's like, you know, we could go
(43:49):
to India. I'm sure a lot of these, you know,
like artists are inspired by a lot of music. You know,
we know like African drum beats, you know, we know
Caribbean music. You know all of these all of these genres,
like you know, what is it called, like world music
or what do they called it the Grammys? I think
(44:10):
it's world Yeah, like they are. Let's put them in
then too, Like you know, I feel like there is
an amount that it's like it's just a name and
it's kind of driving it. But ultimately.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
The fame part is pretty big too. You can't It's.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
True, it's true, but like famous to us Americans. Right.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Well, we when we went to go see the Dishonest
Escape Show a couple months ago, we sat down at
the bar with your friend Derek and he asked me
what my band is like, and I mentioned several bands
that no reaction, no recognition by him, and I was like, well,
(44:55):
they're a big deal to.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Me, man, Yeah, exactly exactly, And that's why we're gonna
do the at first listen Hall of Fame, and we're
gonna only put bands in there that nobody has heard of.
And that's gonna be the rule. You're not allowed to
be in it if anyone if we ask ten people
and they've heard of it, you're out.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
So we just go canvas web the street Bratt.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, exactly, depends the street you're on. You're on a
what is it Gay Street or Christopher Street? In the
West Village, there is a street called Gay Street. I'm
sure there is no there is, Yeah, it probably is. Well,
this is fun. I get why they do this. It's
a good reason to argue. And you don't just argue, Oh,
(45:43):
who should have won this year? Who did the best
album this year? No, we get to it's an opportunity
for everyone to argue about who's the best of all
time and who could possibly even remember or know who
all has already been in it? Like It's like that
was the biggest thing I thought about it.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I mentioned Robert Johnson, and I was going to say
other blues artists, but I'm not sure if other, Like
how many of the artists I would mention are actually
in the Hall of Fame. Let me actually check something
right now. Is Stevie Wonder in the rock and roll
that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
We know that sly Stone is in. Sly and the
Family Stone is in right because we saw it when
he got inducted in the documentary.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Of course, Stevie Wonder should be in and he is. Okay,
he was inducted in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Okay, so he which makes sense because his music that's
when it kind of started to be less good in
the nineties, Like his his best albums were before then,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Okay, Yeah, I don't think I've heard of Stevie Wonder
song from after nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, it's fine, but he's catching strays here. Yeah, go off, Stevie,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
That's that's what I'm talking about. Like Stevie Wonder. You're
going to argue that, no, he's not a rock artist,
but you're going to argue that he's not influential on
rock music, right. I mean, he has like the three
best albums of all time.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I'm coming back to my guitar argument. He does have
guitar a lot in his songs.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Dude, not necessarily a lot. Martin nine and She Nails
is in and I guess there are technically guitars in
some of those songs, but not all of them.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
See, this is a good It's also like me a
I guess I'm you know, I'm a rock fan more
than many, but like I feel like it's like, get
somebody who doesn't know about rock to be like I
think this is rock because it's not other stuff. Whereas
if it's people who are fans of rock, they like
you actually are like this, this is the genre of rock.
(47:42):
I don't know the instruments of nine Ince Nails that
they use. It's an Yeah, it seems you know, you
turn up the gay enough on all the screen knobs.
It's who knows what the sounds of.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I'm just not trying to take people out of the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I just want the
people who deserve it to get in while they're still alive.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, and that's valid.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
That is because it looks fun.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
It does look fun.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
You get to go to a big dinner at an
arena and yet to make a speech.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
And it's fun to have people in it who, like
otherwise wouldn't be there. It's like Mariah Carey could go,
where isn't she invited to? Like, yeah, she could go
if she's in. If she's not in, she could go
to the party either way, whereas maybe the Black Crows.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, like if Mariah Carey shows up at the American
Country Music Awards or whatever country music, whatever the hell
it's called, they're getting a letter in.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
If she shows up at the presidential inauguration. They're gonna
let her in. It's Mariah Carey. So it's like and
that's the whole I feel like that's what it comes
down to with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
is you should be able to say that sentence about it.
You should be able to see it's Billy Idol, come on,
They'll let him in anywhere where, which as it's like,
okay of a certain generation. Whereas yeah, I might have
(49:09):
I might be able to identify Billy Idol from the eighties.
But if the man today came walking by, I would
I would Kiki Palmer, I would say sorry to this man.
I have no idea who he is.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
I have a feeling you would recognize him.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Does he have old does he have like old rocker
man hairstyle and beads and stuff like that like it?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I don't know about. I think it's more of a
stud like the leather and studs type of vibe. But
he looks very much like Billy Idle. Not a good example.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
We we could do. We could do. We should do
one of those like things where it's like, identify this
rocker man and put like him and make Jagger or
whatever next to each other and see if I know
which ones which. Okay, that's not a good example, because
but those the only two I can think of right now.
The next exactly exactly, Well, this is fun.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Well that was our first reaction. Tell us about yours
at at first Listen podcast on Instagram and dominate. Do
you have anything to plug?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, if you want to hear more from me, you
can check out You see Black at Upright Citizens Brigade
Theater at Union Square on May. It's May right, May thirty,
first at eight thirty. It's going to be a blast,
a all black variety show, comedy and improv and such.
(50:34):
Checking me out.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Thank you so much for listening. Please subscribe so you
don't miss an episode, and we'll be back next time.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Her
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com