January 1, 2025 • 28 mins
There are many roads to long-term recovery. Janice Claps discusses the road she took and her belief that predicaments are wholly self imposed through our own thoughts, actions, and behaviors. Janice is an Expressive Therapist at Lake Behavioral Hospital in Waukegan, Illinois. She is also a yoga instructor, CrossFit coach, meditation teacher, and recovery mentor. She is an Active member of The Phoenix Sober-Active Community and describes herself in her bio as “a sober health and wellness professional with a dark sense of humor who enjoys candy and mischief from time to time.” The Phoenix Sober-Active Community information can be found at National Sober Active Community | The Phoenix
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:12):
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction, brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
Long term recovery.
It's the obvious goal for anybodywith a substance use disorder, even
though the mantra is one day at a time.
Well, those two things aren'tmutually exclusive, and we're going
(00:34):
to talk about long term recoverytoday with our guest Janice Claps.
Janice is an expressive therapist at LakeBehavioral Hospital in Waukegan, Illinois.
As well as a yoga instructor,a CrossFit coach, a meditation
teacher, and recovery mentor.
She's also an active member of the PhoenixSober Active Community, which we're going
to talk about, and describes herself, Ihope you don't mind Janice, in her bio as
(00:58):
a sober health and wellness professionalwith a dark sense of humor that enjoys
candy and mischief from time to time.
That's great.
Well, welcome Janice, and Happy New Year.
This is New Year's Day.
Janice (01:10):
Happy New Year.
Thank you for having me, Mike.
I really appreciate it.
I'm excited to be here.
Mike (01:15):
That's great.
Well, let's get for those thatdon't know, what, what does
an expressive therapist do?
Janice (01:22):
So I bring a lot of yoga and meditation to the patients
at Lake Behavioral Hospital.
So I run four groups in the evening andwe'll do some chair yoga, regular yoga.
We'll practice like a lot ofmeditation and mindfulness.
But sometimes, you know, thepatients are just not into it.
(01:45):
So, you know, we'll just hang outand listen to music, maybe talk
and like process some emotions.
We'll play some games, you know,especially with the adolescent
unit, we'll play apples to applesor charades, stuff like that.
So it's a lot of fun.
I've met a reallyphenomenal group of people.
It's been a lot of fun.
Mike (02:06):
That's outstanding.
I'll talk about that maybe a littlebit later, but one of the best groups
I ever ran was during the middle ofa thunderstorm where everybody went
out and played in the rain and thencame in and they just loosened up.
So it's terrific.
Well, you know, Janice, I had awoman I worked with a long time ago.
Tell me her version of longterm recovery was a month.
(02:27):
Since that's the longest termshe could make it, and I can
empathize with that, but that'snot what we're talking about here.
How long have you been in recovery?
What's your definition?
Janice (02:36):
I mean, so my sober date is February 28th, 2014.
So I've been sober over 10 years.
Mike (02:45):
Congratulations.
Janice (02:46):
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
You know, I like to say activerecovery because there are still
some behaviors that I have thatdon't necessarily feel sober.
It's like, you know, thecandy and the mischief.
But I've abstained from, you know, streetdrugs and alcohol for over 10 years.
And it's a practice, you know,it's something that I, that I work
(03:09):
on a little bit every day eitherwith prayer, meditation, fitness.
You know, we talk about itin our groups at my job.
You know, I have a network of peoplethat are in some sort of recovery.
Maybe it's not alcohol and drugs,but some sort of recovery that
we kind of share, you know, shareabout what we're experiencing,
(03:30):
how we handle it, stuff like that.
So, I mean, I feel like long termrecovery, It's, it can't, it is,
it's kind of subjective because, youknow, if you would have told me on
my first AA meeting, like, Oh, you'regoing to have 10 years of recovery.
I would have been like, yeah, right.
You know?
So I really do believein the one day at a time.
(03:52):
I mean, there have been momentsin my recovery where it's been
one hour at a time, you know.
(laugh)
Mike (03:59):
Right.
Janice (03:59):
Yeah, totally.
And it, you know, I feel like as longas you can make it, if you can turn
your recovery into the ritual, like,you know, the, whatever your addiction
was, you know, like I, I had a hugeritual with like drinking and using.
And so I've been able to make my recoverythe new ritual of like something that
(04:25):
I work on a little bit every day.
And because of that, I've beenable to string a few days together.
So.
(laugh)
Mike (04:33):
Well, that's right.
Right.
One day becomes 10 years.
Janice (04:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Mike (04:39):
Well, how did it change over time?
Like, we're, you know, right in themiddle of the holiday season, right?
When we live in a part of thecountry, maybe most parts are like
this, but I think ours is excessive.
Where consumption is a huge part.
So how did recoverychange over time for you?
And how did your relationships change?
Janice (04:58):
Luckily family was very supportive.
And my mom has, she's been in recoveryfrom alcohol for over 30 years.
So luckily they weresupportive to be around.
I, I have a big family.
I do have some brothers andsisters that still drink.
My nieces and nephews will drink.
(05:19):
And so in the beginning, like, if it gotto be, you know, a little too much to kind
of be around, like, I felt okay, like,hey guys, you know, I'm gonna go home
or I'm gonna step away or go for a walk.
Like, there were plenty of times onThanksgiving that I was like, I'm gonna go
for a walk for an hour to kind of removemyself from whatever is going on here.
(05:42):
Luckily, it was never like chaotic oranything, but and just, you know, kind
of learning that, learning that boundaryand like learning that, like, you know,
I have the control to make that choicefor myself, you know, which when I was
actively using like I always felt likeeverybody had to cater to my needs.
(06:05):
I'm like, you know...
(laugh)
Mike (06:07):
Right, right.
Janice (06:08):
Yeah.
So yeah, in early recovery.
It was, you know, itwas, it was challenging.
Definitely like friendships havekind of morphed over the years.
I still have a lot of, you know,people that are close to me that,
you know, were close to me whenI was, when I was out there.
And you know, like luckily they've kindof grown and changed and morphed as well.
(06:31):
Like some of the people that were,you know, were still actively using or
are still actively using, they stillhave a very close place in my heart.
You know, if I, if I see them, I mean,it's pretty rare that I would see them
cause I don't really go to functionswhere I would see people like actively
using, you know, speed or anything.
(laugh)
(06:52):
But if, you know, our paths should cross,like I'm always, you know, they're still
very dear to me and I hope that, youknow, they are healthy and prospering.
But I also have to understandthat it's like, It's not up to
me to, to sober somebody up.
If, you know, if, if somebody isstruggling and they want to help
(07:14):
and they reach out to me, like, ofcourse I want to be there to help
anybody that needs it, but I obviouslyI can't change anybody either.
So.
Mike (07:22):
Well, that not going is part of what I wanted to get to next.
Cause you wrote a blog post.
I read, I don't remember whereI read it now, but I think
you call it finding grace.
And you wrote where you said youhad a stomach ache and not be, not
because you were sick, cause youwere overindulged in treats, because
you eat your feelings when stressed.
And then you say, andthis is a great quote.
(07:44):
Predicaments wholly self imposed throughmy own thoughts, actions, and behaviors.
Janice (07:50):
Yes.
(laugh)
Mike (07:51):
Well, that's taking responsibility, so the stomachache is your fault.
Janice (07:55):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I remember that day perfectly.
I do.
I eat my feelings.
I mean, maybe I need to go toOvereaters Anonymous or something.
I don't know.
Like, luckily I'm pretty active, soI feel like I can get away with it.
But yeah, I, with the stress of losingmy job and, you know, not really being
sure of what was going to happen I, youknow, bought an extra box of Nutty Bars
(08:19):
and I think I ate, ate four in one dayand there's two Nutty Bars to a package.
And yeah, I was just like,Oh, my stomach is killing me.
And just like, well, I did this to myself.
Like I did not, you know, I couldhave made better choices with my food.
I, maybe I could have, you know,practice another like healthier,
(08:42):
healthier ritual, healthier routine.
But you know, that's, that was my,you know, what I needed at the time.
And yeah, and I didn't feel great and itkind of ruined my whole morning that day.
(laugh)
Mike (08:55):
Well, and you also said, I think in the same article, that you
overspend, another common thing.
Janice (09:01):
Yes.
Mike (09:02):
To fill the void of loss, fear, and uncertainty.
Now, my question is, how do you getto that level of self awareness?
Because that's one of thekeys, I think, to, to recovery.
Janice (09:15):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think especiallylong term recovery too.
It's, I mean, that's reallybeen a practice for me.
I mean, I think like, I have always kindof had this dark sense of humor, this
sort of self deprecating sense of humor.
And so, and people like, youknow, friends, family would be
like, Oh, you know, you should bekinder to yourself or whatever.
(09:38):
But there's always been a littletruth to what I joke about.
And I've gotten a lot better.
Like I don't, you know, do thenegative self talk and stuff like
that that I did when I was younger.
But I think like having that dedicatedpractice of meditation, like practicing,
you know, like practicing that type ofmeditation that develops that awareness.
(10:03):
And I wish I could remember whenI can't remember if it's like
this, like a Zen meditation.
But you know, kind of like lookingat those, those like shadowy bits of
us, dark shadowy parts that a lot oftimes, like, especially when we're
using, we you know, try to hide itcompletely with whatever drugs, alcohol,
(10:25):
spending, eating, scrolling, whatnot.
Like really being able to sit withthat and look at it and realize that
like this, you know, these feelingsare coming from somewhere and like
where exactly is it coming from?
I think you know whatit was I practiced....
There's Dr.
(10:45):
Joe Dispenza.
I don't know if you've ever heard of him.
He's on the Gaia channel a lot.
He's got a really interestingprogram called rewired about
like rewiring your brain.
You can find some of his meditations onlike YouTube and stuff, but I did actually
download, I feel like it paid for it.
A download of his meditationand it's called breaking
(11:06):
the habit of being yourself.
And I practiced that meditation.
daily for a few months.
And it's about an hour.
It's about an hour long.
This was during COVID whereI like was barely working.
So I had the time to do it.
And practicing that meditationspecifically really helped me understand
(11:29):
the kind of the darker shadowy partsof myself that I was unwilling to
look at or even unable to look at.
And I feel like that helps.
You know, kind of like cultivate a littlebit more of that self awareness and
especially in like a healthier way, likenot just in the self deprecating sense of
(11:51):
humor kind of way, but in that way thatI can you know, like understand, like,
you know, why I'm doing these things.
I still do these things, but at least now.
Mike (12:01):
(laugh)
Janice (12:04):
Okay.
I get it.
I'm stressed out.
Mike (12:07):
And it's not, it's not easy to sit in those feelings, right?
The, the tendency is to eat, spend, use.
Right?
Janice (12:18):
Yeah.
Mike (12:18):
And so to sit in those feelings is practicing.
It's more than just a mantra.
It's actually practicing it.
Janice (12:25):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, you know, like, to be able to sitin the meditation, you know, whether
it's a guided meditation like that, oreven just, you know, having a timer set
with maybe a bell every, you know, two orthree minutes or whatnot to kind of keep
you, you know, centered in that space.
(12:46):
And then you know, like journalingabout it a little bit, like, you
know, maybe writing down what cameup, you know, what feelings came up.
And, you know, like I had some pretty darkstuff come up when I was practicing that.
And would kind of write it out andask myself questions like, well,
where, where is this coming from?
Why, you know, like, howlong have I carried this?
(13:09):
And, you know, that sort of likeintrospection to be able to kind
of dissect it a little bit more andunderstand it a little bit more.
So.
Mike (13:19):
Well, and then transferring it to something positive.
So how did you discover, orwere you already into yoga,
meditation, CrossFit specifically.
Cause when you do CrossFit, you'reworking yourself to exhaustion.
Janice (13:31):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I've, I've been a yogi foralmost my whole adult life.
I think my first yoga class Iwent to, I was like 19 years old.
So yeah, that was 30 years ago.
(laugh) And I mean, I've been in andout of it, but like I've always been
very fascinated and interested in yoga.
So now that like I'm able to teach itand, you know, guide people through it,
(13:57):
it's been, it's really been a blessing.
I've really enjoyed it.
I got into CrossFit about Iwas about two years sober.
I had some friends of mine, somegirlfriends of mine are like,
I really think you'd like it.
I think you'd really benefit fromit because I knew I was struggling
and at the time, like I was twoyears sober going to AA meetings,
(14:18):
but I was in a horrible relationshipwith somebody terribly abusive.
I had never experienced a relationshiplike that before, but you know,
I got into this relationshipwhen I was like six months sober.
(laugh)
Mike (14:31):
Yeah.
Great timing.
Janice (14:34):
Great timing.
My sponsor at the time was like, Idon't really think this is a good idea.
I advise against it, butyou know, it's your call.
I'm like, Oh, I'm, I'm six months sober.
I think I'm healed.
Like I can handle this.
And yeah, it was (laugh)
terrible, terrible.
And it's funny when I look back, I mean,there's like hindsight is 20/20, right?
(14:57):
Like there were so many redflags the day I met this person.
And even just how I presentedmyself to the world that like
You know, I'm six months sober.
Like I don't love myself.
I don't value myself.
Like the only good thing I have goingfor me is that I'm six months sober.
Like inside I am still completelybroken, but you know, my brain
(15:22):
was like, Oh, but you're sober.
So it's all good.
(laugh)
Mike (15:25):
I'm going to stop you for a minute.
Cause you just did somethingwhere you illustrated a point.
And I think people who are listeningto this zoom right over it.
You started talking about therelationship and the horrible choice,
but then you owned it like that.
Janice (15:38):
Yeah.
Mike (15:38):
You presented yourself to the world now that that's a transition right
Janice You didn't you just did thatthat's now coming naturally for you.
Janice (15:47):
Yeah, and then it took a lot of work.
It took a lot of work And I think thatlike finding CrossFit and that outlet
for that was really really helpful
Mike (15:59):
What you think the first time you did CrossFit?
Janice (16:03):
Well, I, the first few classes I went to, I like, I enjoyed it.
It was fun.
I felt like a kid again, like we werejump roping and jumping around and
swinging from the pull up bar and stuff.
So I, it was a lot of fun.
It was a really fun community.
It was, there was a small gym in Chicago.
I'm not even sure if it's there anymore.
Cause this was pre COVID, butit was probably about two or
(16:25):
three weeks into this adventure.
That, there were rope climbs and Ihave never climbed a rope in my life.
Like what, like what, like, this isnot going to happen, but the coach,
like he took the time to like guideme through it and explained it.
Like, it's really, this is all howyou wrap your feet and your legs.
(16:48):
This is not, you're notpulling with your arms.
Cause I mean, I still don't have great armstrength, but like, I was always thinking,
like pulling yourself up with your arms.
So he guided me through it.
Like we sat on a box and showed mehow to wrap my feet, how to stand up.
And within a half an hour, Iclimbed, climbed the 15 foot rope.
(17:10):
And I like, I got to the top and I, Mike,I felt like I was up there for an hour.
Like, I'm sure it was only like a fewseconds, but at the top of that rope,
I was like, what the heck am I doing?
Like, I'm with this person who's awful,like I'm not really paying any attention
to myself and like how I'm being treated,how like, yeah, you know, this person
(17:36):
is not valuing me, I'm not valuing me.
Like it was like my whole perspectivechanged just being at the top of the rope.
And yeah, I stuck with CrossFitwithin a couple of months that
person and I, we broke up.
I kicked him out of my house.
Called the police because it waslike, of course it ended terribly.
(17:57):
(laugh)
Mike (17:57):
Yeah, right.
Janice (17:58):
And it was just like, I put the boundary down.
Like, you know, he tried reachingout for months afterwards and I
was like, no, no, this is not.
Like, I am done with this.
I am, this part of my life is over.
I am never going to allow myselfto be treated like that again.
And I moved back home with my mom.
This is in Illinois.
I moved back home with my mom in Huntley.
(18:21):
And I found a CrossFit gym out there.
And, like, they really became my family.
Like, my recovery family.
That first, you know, that subsequentfew years after that and there were,
you know, people in the gym who are inrecovery from drugs and alcohol and,
you know, people that just had their ownissues, but we all kind of came together
(18:42):
and, like, worked through it there.
And it was, it was just such a great.
It was such a wonderfulcommunity of people.
And I found the same, you know, thesame thing at my gym here in Kenosha.
I mean, it's, they're just awesome people.
Everybody's helpful.
Everybody's supportive.
You know, you find people thatyou kind of want to be like,
(19:03):
or kind of want to emulate.
And I see these, you know, these strongwomen at my gym, my old gym, the new gym.
That I'm like, that's,that's what I want to be.
I want to be not justlike physically strong.
I think physically strong is cool.
I do want to be physically stronger, butjust that, like to show up every day, to
be consistent, to be accountable, to be,you know, like just, you just get in there
(19:29):
and do the work and you do your best, youknow, cause that, like, I, that was not,
that was not my MO when I was out there.
Like I was just like barelyshowed up 90 percent of the time.
(laugh)
Mike (19:43):
God, there's so many great analogies to recovery and what you
just, the stories you just told fromthe rope climb to showing up every day.
You found something called thePhoenix Sober Active Community
for those not familiar with it.
And we'll put links to themat the end of this podcast.
Tell us about that.
Janice (20:03):
So the Phoenix is yeah, it's a national nonprofit organization.
I found them...
again, this is pre COVID.
I think I was listening to a CrossFitpodcast at work and they had on Scott
Strode, who is the gentleman thatcreated the Phoenix and just talking
about like, you know, his strugglewith his addiction and how he found
(20:26):
just like a community of people thatwere into like fitness and movement.
And I, I don't think his jam was CrossFit.
I feel like he got into likerock climbing or something.
I can't remember.
He did just come out with a bookthat I haven't read yet, but it was
kind of the same thing with me andthe rope climb in the community.
So listening to the podcast, like Igot really inspired and they talked
(20:51):
about how they're, you know, they'realways looking for volunteers.
You know, to host classes.
So that's how I got into,hosting the classes at my gym.
I contacted them, it took a coupleof months, but you know, they set
me up to get my CrossFit level oneto be able to coach, and then I
believe it was like February of 2019.
(21:14):
That I had my first Phoenixclass at my CrossFit gym and
in Crystal Lake, Illinois.
And I, I had a lot of peopleshow up the first few weeks.
There were some weeks where likeI get one or two people and then
some weeks where I get 15 people.
But it was a blast.
We had a great time.
So I would host a free class everySaturday for people in recovery.
(21:37):
And yeah, we would just start with anicebreaker, kind of go over the, like,
you know, the workout we were going to do.
And of course, likeeverything can be modified.
So if somebody had never done CrossFitbefore, you know, it's, we're not
like, Hey, we're going to back squatour body weight today, you know?
(laugh)
No, I like, cause I know a lot ofpeople that have never done CrossFit
(21:59):
can be really intimidated by it.
Mike (22:01):
Yeah.
Janice (22:02):
Yeah, I'm here to tell you that it's like everything, everything can be
modified to your ability like it's don'tbe scared of it because it's awesome.
(laugh)
Mike (22:13):
One of the parts I like about CrossFit Janice is when I watch
the competition on TV is that eventhose who finish turn back around
oftentimes right away and start cheeringfor the people right behind them.
Janice (22:26):
Yeah.
Mike (22:28):
That's kind of awesome!
Janice (22:29):
It is, it is, it's really it's really awesome.
And you see the same, that sameenergy like in a class at the gym.
You know like its kind of like in anAA meeting where they say like, you
know the the newest person here is themost important person here and it's
kind of like that's sort of the M.
O.
like in a class, like, you know, peopleare like, I'm the last person to finish,
(22:52):
but everybody's crowded around them.
Come on, like, you got this, you got this,you know, and it's very, like, it's so
encouraging and so empowering that it'sjust like, yeah, I'm doing it, you know?
So.
Mike (23:05):
Well, in your blog post, you wrote, you used the word in your blog.
Am I pronouncing this correct?
Saṃsāra?
Janice (23:12):
Yeah, Saṃsāra.
Mike (23:14):
I looked it up.
It's Sanskrit, right?
Janice (23:16):
Yeah.
Mike (23:16):
And it has several meanings.
One of them is rebirth.
How did you mean it?
Janice (23:22):
So the way, in that blog post specifically, I kind
of being caught in that loop.
So like...
Mike (23:30):
Running in circles was another one.
Janice (23:31):
Running in circles.
Yeah.
And kind of like chasing yourtail and like you almost feel
like you're sort of being reborninto this same vicious circle.
And so that was sort of how I meantit in that blog post of just kind of
going in circles with this, like, youknow, Nutty Bar fiasco or whatever.
(23:51):
(laugh)
Mike (23:53):
Maybe I'll title the podcast the Nutty Bar.
(laugh)
Janice (23:56):
The Nutty Bar Fiasco.
Yes.
(laugh) But yeah, I mean, I thinklike you can, you know, hopefully
like every time we are reborn, andI don't mean like, you know, like
literally like we die and we're reborn.
But, you know, when we kind of getcaught in these loops, caught in these
cycles, like if we're able to come outof it, be reborn out of it, and glean
(24:20):
something from that, that we can youknow, carrying to the next experience
because, you know, there's always goingto be something we get caught up in that
might not be great, you know, but if wecan glean something from that last cycle
of craziness, and then apply it to this.
Next, hopefully, not as acute cycleof craziness that like makes it a
(24:46):
little easier to come out of or maybenot as, not as challenging, you know.
Mike (24:51):
I love that.
And that's the differencebetween you now, right?
And when you look back whenyou were really caught in that
cycle, but it was downward.
Janice (24:59):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I was, I mean, I, I remember,it's so funny to even, it cracks
me up to even talk about itbecause I'm like, how is that?
How am I even this person?
But like, I mean, I rememberbeing, so, so cracked out.
I like speed was my drug of choice.
Speed and alcohol.
(25:20):
I mean, my drug of choice was more,let's be fair, but like but my, my two
go tos were, were speed and alcohol.
And I just remember being awake at likefour in the morning, trying to sleep,
like, you know, drunk because I'm tryingto put myself to sleep with Jamison
or whatever, and having this like,well I'm just, I'm clearly possessed.
(25:43):
Like this, I'm possessed by the devil.
Like, this is not me.
And it was such a rational thoughtin my head that like, oh yeah,
no, this is, this is not my fault.
I'm, this, this is adarker energy at work.
And like, now that I've, kind ofcome through this that is just like,
well, it was a darker energy atwork, but that darker energy was me.
(26:03):
It was not the devil.
Like this was just like a verysick, traumatized part of me
that I couldn't figure out how tooperate in the world, you know,
like and my dog's getting riled up.
Mike (26:20):
That's great.
I was, you know, part of mewas hoping that was a dog.
Janice (26:27):
As I'm just talking about being possessed by the devil.
(laugh) But yeah, I mean, it's
been
like, I don't want to sayit's been super challenging.
I, of course, there has been challenges.
As there always are, you know, like Ilost my brother and my nephew in 2021.
(26:50):
Very, both very unexpectedly, like,you know, losing my job, COVID,
like there's always something that'sgoing to throw us for a loop, whether
it's self imposed, like I made thisdecision to eat poorly or whatnot,
or, you know, like there's a pandemicand everything has to get shut down.
(27:11):
And like, like the more tools that wecan gather to, you know, to, again, to
learn like how to operate in the worldand how to operate, you know, with
friends and family and the communityyou know, just to make this experience,
you know, hopefully we can make it morejoyful and enjoyable, but sometimes it
(27:35):
is just like learning, like, okay, howcan I get through this without drinking?
How can I get through this without usingor blowing up on my partner or, you know,
like it's been you know, there's justbeen so many lessons and tools and all
that, that I've been able to, to applyand like, and hopefully that I can, you
(27:58):
know, share with other people if, youknow, if they want to learn about it, so.
(laugh)
Mike (28:03):
What a great spot to end a New Year's message.
I mean, it's all about hopemoving forward and decisions.
Janice, it's just been a blast.
Janice (28:12):
Yeah.
Oh, I've really enjoyed this, Mike.
Thank you so much for having me.
Mike (28:16):
Well, you know, we're gonna, as you know who listen, we put links to
the Phoenix Sober Active Community,the national site, and it's many
resources attached to the podcast.
Thanks again, Janice, for being with us.
And for all of you listening,join us anytime you're able.
Until then, stay safe, livewell, and I guess, what?
(28:36):
Climb the rope.
Janice (28:38):
Climb the rope.
Absolutely.
Take a deep breath and climb the rope.
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction, brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
Long term recovery.
It's the obvious goal for anybodywith a substance use disorder, even
though the mantra is one day at a time.
Well, those two things aren'tmutually exclusive, and we're going
(00:34):
to talk about long term recoverytoday with our guest Janice Claps.
Janice is an expressive therapist at LakeBehavioral Hospital in Waukegan, Illinois.
As well as a yoga instructor,a CrossFit coach, a meditation
teacher, and recovery mentor.
She's also an active member of the PhoenixSober Active Community, which we're going
to talk about, and describes herself, Ihope you don't mind Janice, in her bio as
(00:58):
a sober health and wellness professionalwith a dark sense of humor that enjoys
candy and mischief from time to time.
That's great.
Well, welcome Janice, and Happy New Year.
This is New Year's Day.
Janice (01:10):
Happy New Year.
Thank you for having me, Mike.
I really appreciate it.
I'm excited to be here.
Mike (01:15):
That's great.
Well, let's get for those thatdon't know, what, what does
an expressive therapist do?
Janice (01:22):
So I bring a lot of yoga and meditation to the patients
at Lake Behavioral Hospital.
So I run four groups in the evening andwe'll do some chair yoga, regular yoga.
We'll practice like a lot ofmeditation and mindfulness.
But sometimes, you know, thepatients are just not into it.
(01:45):
So, you know, we'll just hang outand listen to music, maybe talk
and like process some emotions.
We'll play some games, you know,especially with the adolescent
unit, we'll play apples to applesor charades, stuff like that.
So it's a lot of fun.
I've met a reallyphenomenal group of people.
It's been a lot of fun.
Mike (02:06):
That's outstanding.
I'll talk about that maybe a littlebit later, but one of the best groups
I ever ran was during the middle ofa thunderstorm where everybody went
out and played in the rain and thencame in and they just loosened up.
So it's terrific.
Well, you know, Janice, I had awoman I worked with a long time ago.
Tell me her version of longterm recovery was a month.
(02:27):
Since that's the longest termshe could make it, and I can
empathize with that, but that'snot what we're talking about here.
How long have you been in recovery?
What's your definition?
Janice (02:36):
I mean, so my sober date is February 28th, 2014.
So I've been sober over 10 years.
Mike (02:45):
Congratulations.
Janice (02:46):
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
You know, I like to say activerecovery because there are still
some behaviors that I have thatdon't necessarily feel sober.
It's like, you know, thecandy and the mischief.
But I've abstained from, you know, streetdrugs and alcohol for over 10 years.
And it's a practice, you know,it's something that I, that I work
(03:09):
on a little bit every day eitherwith prayer, meditation, fitness.
You know, we talk about itin our groups at my job.
You know, I have a network of peoplethat are in some sort of recovery.
Maybe it's not alcohol and drugs,but some sort of recovery that
we kind of share, you know, shareabout what we're experiencing,
(03:30):
how we handle it, stuff like that.
So, I mean, I feel like long termrecovery, It's, it can't, it is,
it's kind of subjective because, youknow, if you would have told me on
my first AA meeting, like, Oh, you'regoing to have 10 years of recovery.
I would have been like, yeah, right.
You know?
So I really do believein the one day at a time.
(03:52):
I mean, there have been momentsin my recovery where it's been
one hour at a time, you know.
(laugh)
Mike (03:59):
Right.
Janice (03:59):
Yeah, totally.
And it, you know, I feel like as longas you can make it, if you can turn
your recovery into the ritual, like,you know, the, whatever your addiction
was, you know, like I, I had a hugeritual with like drinking and using.
And so I've been able to make my recoverythe new ritual of like something that
(04:25):
I work on a little bit every day.
And because of that, I've beenable to string a few days together.
So.
(laugh)
Mike (04:33):
Well, that's right.
Right.
One day becomes 10 years.
Janice (04:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Mike (04:39):
Well, how did it change over time?
Like, we're, you know, right in themiddle of the holiday season, right?
When we live in a part of thecountry, maybe most parts are like
this, but I think ours is excessive.
Where consumption is a huge part.
So how did recoverychange over time for you?
And how did your relationships change?
Janice (04:58):
Luckily family was very supportive.
And my mom has, she's been in recoveryfrom alcohol for over 30 years.
So luckily they weresupportive to be around.
I, I have a big family.
I do have some brothers andsisters that still drink.
My nieces and nephews will drink.
(05:19):
And so in the beginning, like, if it gotto be, you know, a little too much to kind
of be around, like, I felt okay, like,hey guys, you know, I'm gonna go home
or I'm gonna step away or go for a walk.
Like, there were plenty of times onThanksgiving that I was like, I'm gonna go
for a walk for an hour to kind of removemyself from whatever is going on here.
(05:42):
Luckily, it was never like chaotic oranything, but and just, you know, kind
of learning that, learning that boundaryand like learning that, like, you know,
I have the control to make that choicefor myself, you know, which when I was
actively using like I always felt likeeverybody had to cater to my needs.
(06:05):
I'm like, you know...
(laugh)
Mike (06:07):
Right, right.
Janice (06:08):
Yeah.
So yeah, in early recovery.
It was, you know, itwas, it was challenging.
Definitely like friendships havekind of morphed over the years.
I still have a lot of, you know,people that are close to me that,
you know, were close to me whenI was, when I was out there.
And you know, like luckily they've kindof grown and changed and morphed as well.
(06:31):
Like some of the people that were,you know, were still actively using or
are still actively using, they stillhave a very close place in my heart.
You know, if I, if I see them, I mean,it's pretty rare that I would see them
cause I don't really go to functionswhere I would see people like actively
using, you know, speed or anything.
(laugh)
(06:52):
But if, you know, our paths should cross,like I'm always, you know, they're still
very dear to me and I hope that, youknow, they are healthy and prospering.
But I also have to understandthat it's like, It's not up to
me to, to sober somebody up.
If, you know, if, if somebody isstruggling and they want to help
(07:14):
and they reach out to me, like, ofcourse I want to be there to help
anybody that needs it, but I obviouslyI can't change anybody either.
So.
Mike (07:22):
Well, that not going is part of what I wanted to get to next.
Cause you wrote a blog post.
I read, I don't remember whereI read it now, but I think
you call it finding grace.
And you wrote where you said youhad a stomach ache and not be, not
because you were sick, cause youwere overindulged in treats, because
you eat your feelings when stressed.
And then you say, andthis is a great quote.
(07:44):
Predicaments wholly self imposed throughmy own thoughts, actions, and behaviors.
Janice (07:50):
Yes.
(laugh)
Mike (07:51):
Well, that's taking responsibility, so the stomachache is your fault.
Janice (07:55):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I remember that day perfectly.
I do.
I eat my feelings.
I mean, maybe I need to go toOvereaters Anonymous or something.
I don't know.
Like, luckily I'm pretty active, soI feel like I can get away with it.
But yeah, I, with the stress of losingmy job and, you know, not really being
sure of what was going to happen I, youknow, bought an extra box of Nutty Bars
(08:19):
and I think I ate, ate four in one dayand there's two Nutty Bars to a package.
And yeah, I was just like,Oh, my stomach is killing me.
And just like, well, I did this to myself.
Like I did not, you know, I couldhave made better choices with my food.
I, maybe I could have, you know,practice another like healthier,
(08:42):
healthier ritual, healthier routine.
But you know, that's, that was my,you know, what I needed at the time.
And yeah, and I didn't feel great and itkind of ruined my whole morning that day.
(laugh)
Mike (08:55):
Well, and you also said, I think in the same article, that you
overspend, another common thing.
Janice (09:01):
Yes.
Mike (09:02):
To fill the void of loss, fear, and uncertainty.
Now, my question is, how do you getto that level of self awareness?
Because that's one of thekeys, I think, to, to recovery.
Janice (09:15):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think especiallylong term recovery too.
It's, I mean, that's reallybeen a practice for me.
I mean, I think like, I have always kindof had this dark sense of humor, this
sort of self deprecating sense of humor.
And so, and people like, youknow, friends, family would be
like, Oh, you know, you should bekinder to yourself or whatever.
(09:38):
But there's always been a littletruth to what I joke about.
And I've gotten a lot better.
Like I don't, you know, do thenegative self talk and stuff like
that that I did when I was younger.
But I think like having that dedicatedpractice of meditation, like practicing,
you know, like practicing that type ofmeditation that develops that awareness.
(10:03):
And I wish I could remember whenI can't remember if it's like
this, like a Zen meditation.
But you know, kind of like lookingat those, those like shadowy bits of
us, dark shadowy parts that a lot oftimes, like, especially when we're
using, we you know, try to hide itcompletely with whatever drugs, alcohol,
(10:25):
spending, eating, scrolling, whatnot.
Like really being able to sit withthat and look at it and realize that
like this, you know, these feelingsare coming from somewhere and like
where exactly is it coming from?
I think you know whatit was I practiced....
There's Dr.
(10:45):
Joe Dispenza.
I don't know if you've ever heard of him.
He's on the Gaia channel a lot.
He's got a really interestingprogram called rewired about
like rewiring your brain.
You can find some of his meditations onlike YouTube and stuff, but I did actually
download, I feel like it paid for it.
A download of his meditationand it's called breaking
(11:06):
the habit of being yourself.
And I practiced that meditation.
daily for a few months.
And it's about an hour.
It's about an hour long.
This was during COVID whereI like was barely working.
So I had the time to do it.
And practicing that meditationspecifically really helped me understand
(11:29):
the kind of the darker shadowy partsof myself that I was unwilling to
look at or even unable to look at.
And I feel like that helps.
You know, kind of like cultivate a littlebit more of that self awareness and
especially in like a healthier way, likenot just in the self deprecating sense of
(11:51):
humor kind of way, but in that way thatI can you know, like understand, like,
you know, why I'm doing these things.
I still do these things, but at least now.
Mike (12:01):
(laugh)
Janice (12:04):
Okay.
I get it.
I'm stressed out.
Mike (12:07):
And it's not, it's not easy to sit in those feelings, right?
The, the tendency is to eat, spend, use.
Right?
Janice (12:18):
Yeah.
Mike (12:18):
And so to sit in those feelings is practicing.
It's more than just a mantra.
It's actually practicing it.
Janice (12:25):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, you know, like, to be able to sitin the meditation, you know, whether
it's a guided meditation like that, oreven just, you know, having a timer set
with maybe a bell every, you know, two orthree minutes or whatnot to kind of keep
you, you know, centered in that space.
(12:46):
And then you know, like journalingabout it a little bit, like, you
know, maybe writing down what cameup, you know, what feelings came up.
And, you know, like I had some pretty darkstuff come up when I was practicing that.
And would kind of write it out andask myself questions like, well,
where, where is this coming from?
Why, you know, like, howlong have I carried this?
(13:09):
And, you know, that sort of likeintrospection to be able to kind
of dissect it a little bit more andunderstand it a little bit more.
So.
Mike (13:19):
Well, and then transferring it to something positive.
So how did you discover, orwere you already into yoga,
meditation, CrossFit specifically.
Cause when you do CrossFit, you'reworking yourself to exhaustion.
Janice (13:31):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I've, I've been a yogi foralmost my whole adult life.
I think my first yoga class Iwent to, I was like 19 years old.
So yeah, that was 30 years ago.
(laugh) And I mean, I've been in andout of it, but like I've always been
very fascinated and interested in yoga.
So now that like I'm able to teach itand, you know, guide people through it,
(13:57):
it's been, it's really been a blessing.
I've really enjoyed it.
I got into CrossFit about Iwas about two years sober.
I had some friends of mine, somegirlfriends of mine are like,
I really think you'd like it.
I think you'd really benefit fromit because I knew I was struggling
and at the time, like I was twoyears sober going to AA meetings,
(14:18):
but I was in a horrible relationshipwith somebody terribly abusive.
I had never experienced a relationshiplike that before, but you know,
I got into this relationshipwhen I was like six months sober.
(laugh)
Mike (14:31):
Yeah.
Great timing.
Janice (14:34):
Great timing.
My sponsor at the time was like, Idon't really think this is a good idea.
I advise against it, butyou know, it's your call.
I'm like, Oh, I'm, I'm six months sober.
I think I'm healed.
Like I can handle this.
And yeah, it was (laugh)
terrible, terrible.
And it's funny when I look back, I mean,there's like hindsight is 20/20, right?
(14:57):
Like there were so many redflags the day I met this person.
And even just how I presentedmyself to the world that like
You know, I'm six months sober.
Like I don't love myself.
I don't value myself.
Like the only good thing I have goingfor me is that I'm six months sober.
Like inside I am still completelybroken, but you know, my brain
(15:22):
was like, Oh, but you're sober.
So it's all good.
(laugh)
Mike (15:25):
I'm going to stop you for a minute.
Cause you just did somethingwhere you illustrated a point.
And I think people who are listeningto this zoom right over it.
You started talking about therelationship and the horrible choice,
but then you owned it like that.
Janice (15:38):
Yeah.
Mike (15:38):
You presented yourself to the world now that that's a transition right
Janice You didn't you just did thatthat's now coming naturally for you.
Janice (15:47):
Yeah, and then it took a lot of work.
It took a lot of work And I think thatlike finding CrossFit and that outlet
for that was really really helpful
Mike (15:59):
What you think the first time you did CrossFit?
Janice (16:03):
Well, I, the first few classes I went to, I like, I enjoyed it.
It was fun.
I felt like a kid again, like we werejump roping and jumping around and
swinging from the pull up bar and stuff.
So I, it was a lot of fun.
It was a really fun community.
It was, there was a small gym in Chicago.
I'm not even sure if it's there anymore.
Cause this was pre COVID, butit was probably about two or
(16:25):
three weeks into this adventure.
That, there were rope climbs and Ihave never climbed a rope in my life.
Like what, like what, like, this isnot going to happen, but the coach,
like he took the time to like guideme through it and explained it.
Like, it's really, this is all howyou wrap your feet and your legs.
(16:48):
This is not, you're notpulling with your arms.
Cause I mean, I still don't have great armstrength, but like, I was always thinking,
like pulling yourself up with your arms.
So he guided me through it.
Like we sat on a box and showed mehow to wrap my feet, how to stand up.
And within a half an hour, Iclimbed, climbed the 15 foot rope.
(17:10):
And I like, I got to the top and I, Mike,I felt like I was up there for an hour.
Like, I'm sure it was only like a fewseconds, but at the top of that rope,
I was like, what the heck am I doing?
Like, I'm with this person who's awful,like I'm not really paying any attention
to myself and like how I'm being treated,how like, yeah, you know, this person
(17:36):
is not valuing me, I'm not valuing me.
Like it was like my whole perspectivechanged just being at the top of the rope.
And yeah, I stuck with CrossFitwithin a couple of months that
person and I, we broke up.
I kicked him out of my house.
Called the police because it waslike, of course it ended terribly.
(17:57):
(laugh)
Mike (17:57):
Yeah, right.
Janice (17:58):
And it was just like, I put the boundary down.
Like, you know, he tried reachingout for months afterwards and I
was like, no, no, this is not.
Like, I am done with this.
I am, this part of my life is over.
I am never going to allow myselfto be treated like that again.
And I moved back home with my mom.
This is in Illinois.
I moved back home with my mom in Huntley.
(18:21):
And I found a CrossFit gym out there.
And, like, they really became my family.
Like, my recovery family.
That first, you know, that subsequentfew years after that and there were,
you know, people in the gym who are inrecovery from drugs and alcohol and,
you know, people that just had their ownissues, but we all kind of came together
(18:42):
and, like, worked through it there.
And it was, it was just such a great.
It was such a wonderfulcommunity of people.
And I found the same, you know, thesame thing at my gym here in Kenosha.
I mean, it's, they're just awesome people.
Everybody's helpful.
Everybody's supportive.
You know, you find people thatyou kind of want to be like,
(19:03):
or kind of want to emulate.
And I see these, you know, these strongwomen at my gym, my old gym, the new gym.
That I'm like, that's,that's what I want to be.
I want to be not justlike physically strong.
I think physically strong is cool.
I do want to be physically stronger, butjust that, like to show up every day, to
be consistent, to be accountable, to be,you know, like just, you just get in there
(19:29):
and do the work and you do your best, youknow, cause that, like, I, that was not,
that was not my MO when I was out there.
Like I was just like barelyshowed up 90 percent of the time.
(laugh)
Mike (19:43):
God, there's so many great analogies to recovery and what you
just, the stories you just told fromthe rope climb to showing up every day.
You found something called thePhoenix Sober Active Community
for those not familiar with it.
And we'll put links to themat the end of this podcast.
Tell us about that.
Janice (20:03):
So the Phoenix is yeah, it's a national nonprofit organization.
I found them...
again, this is pre COVID.
I think I was listening to a CrossFitpodcast at work and they had on Scott
Strode, who is the gentleman thatcreated the Phoenix and just talking
about like, you know, his strugglewith his addiction and how he found
(20:26):
just like a community of people thatwere into like fitness and movement.
And I, I don't think his jam was CrossFit.
I feel like he got into likerock climbing or something.
I can't remember.
He did just come out with a bookthat I haven't read yet, but it was
kind of the same thing with me andthe rope climb in the community.
So listening to the podcast, like Igot really inspired and they talked
(20:51):
about how they're, you know, they'realways looking for volunteers.
You know, to host classes.
So that's how I got into,hosting the classes at my gym.
I contacted them, it took a coupleof months, but you know, they set
me up to get my CrossFit level oneto be able to coach, and then I
believe it was like February of 2019.
(21:14):
That I had my first Phoenixclass at my CrossFit gym and
in Crystal Lake, Illinois.
And I, I had a lot of peopleshow up the first few weeks.
There were some weeks where likeI get one or two people and then
some weeks where I get 15 people.
But it was a blast.
We had a great time.
So I would host a free class everySaturday for people in recovery.
(21:37):
And yeah, we would just start with anicebreaker, kind of go over the, like,
you know, the workout we were going to do.
And of course, likeeverything can be modified.
So if somebody had never done CrossFitbefore, you know, it's, we're not
like, Hey, we're going to back squatour body weight today, you know?
(laugh)
No, I like, cause I know a lot ofpeople that have never done CrossFit
(21:59):
can be really intimidated by it.
Mike (22:01):
Yeah.
Janice (22:02):
Yeah, I'm here to tell you that it's like everything, everything can be
modified to your ability like it's don'tbe scared of it because it's awesome.
(laugh)
Mike (22:13):
One of the parts I like about CrossFit Janice is when I watch
the competition on TV is that eventhose who finish turn back around
oftentimes right away and start cheeringfor the people right behind them.
Janice (22:26):
Yeah.
Mike (22:28):
That's kind of awesome!
Janice (22:29):
It is, it is, it's really it's really awesome.
And you see the same, that sameenergy like in a class at the gym.
You know like its kind of like in anAA meeting where they say like, you
know the the newest person here is themost important person here and it's
kind of like that's sort of the M.
O.
like in a class, like, you know, peopleare like, I'm the last person to finish,
(22:52):
but everybody's crowded around them.
Come on, like, you got this, you got this,you know, and it's very, like, it's so
encouraging and so empowering that it'sjust like, yeah, I'm doing it, you know?
So.
Mike (23:05):
Well, in your blog post, you wrote, you used the word in your blog.
Am I pronouncing this correct?
Saṃsāra?
Janice (23:12):
Yeah, Saṃsāra.
Mike (23:14):
I looked it up.
It's Sanskrit, right?
Janice (23:16):
Yeah.
Mike (23:16):
And it has several meanings.
One of them is rebirth.
How did you mean it?
Janice (23:22):
So the way, in that blog post specifically, I kind
of being caught in that loop.
So like...
Mike (23:30):
Running in circles was another one.
Janice (23:31):
Running in circles.
Yeah.
And kind of like chasing yourtail and like you almost feel
like you're sort of being reborninto this same vicious circle.
And so that was sort of how I meantit in that blog post of just kind of
going in circles with this, like, youknow, Nutty Bar fiasco or whatever.
(23:51):
(laugh)
Mike (23:53):
Maybe I'll title the podcast the Nutty Bar.
(laugh)
Janice (23:56):
The Nutty Bar Fiasco.
Yes.
(laugh) But yeah, I mean, I thinklike you can, you know, hopefully
like every time we are reborn, andI don't mean like, you know, like
literally like we die and we're reborn.
But, you know, when we kind of getcaught in these loops, caught in these
cycles, like if we're able to come outof it, be reborn out of it, and glean
(24:20):
something from that, that we can youknow, carrying to the next experience
because, you know, there's always goingto be something we get caught up in that
might not be great, you know, but if wecan glean something from that last cycle
of craziness, and then apply it to this.
Next, hopefully, not as acute cycleof craziness that like makes it a
(24:46):
little easier to come out of or maybenot as, not as challenging, you know.
Mike (24:51):
I love that.
And that's the differencebetween you now, right?
And when you look back whenyou were really caught in that
cycle, but it was downward.
Janice (24:59):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I was, I mean, I, I remember,it's so funny to even, it cracks
me up to even talk about itbecause I'm like, how is that?
How am I even this person?
But like, I mean, I rememberbeing, so, so cracked out.
I like speed was my drug of choice.
Speed and alcohol.
(25:20):
I mean, my drug of choice was more,let's be fair, but like but my, my two
go tos were, were speed and alcohol.
And I just remember being awake at likefour in the morning, trying to sleep,
like, you know, drunk because I'm tryingto put myself to sleep with Jamison
or whatever, and having this like,well I'm just, I'm clearly possessed.
(25:43):
Like this, I'm possessed by the devil.
Like, this is not me.
And it was such a rational thoughtin my head that like, oh yeah,
no, this is, this is not my fault.
I'm, this, this is adarker energy at work.
And like, now that I've, kind ofcome through this that is just like,
well, it was a darker energy atwork, but that darker energy was me.
(26:03):
It was not the devil.
Like this was just like a verysick, traumatized part of me
that I couldn't figure out how tooperate in the world, you know,
like and my dog's getting riled up.
Mike (26:20):
That's great.
I was, you know, part of mewas hoping that was a dog.
Janice (26:27):
As I'm just talking about being possessed by the devil.
(laugh) But yeah, I mean, it's
been
like, I don't want to sayit's been super challenging.
I, of course, there has been challenges.
As there always are, you know, like Ilost my brother and my nephew in 2021.
(26:50):
Very, both very unexpectedly, like,you know, losing my job, COVID,
like there's always something that'sgoing to throw us for a loop, whether
it's self imposed, like I made thisdecision to eat poorly or whatnot,
or, you know, like there's a pandemicand everything has to get shut down.
(27:11):
And like, like the more tools that wecan gather to, you know, to, again, to
learn like how to operate in the worldand how to operate, you know, with
friends and family and the communityyou know, just to make this experience,
you know, hopefully we can make it morejoyful and enjoyable, but sometimes it
(27:35):
is just like learning, like, okay, howcan I get through this without drinking?
How can I get through this without usingor blowing up on my partner or, you know,
like it's been you know, there's justbeen so many lessons and tools and all
that, that I've been able to, to applyand like, and hopefully that I can, you
(27:58):
know, share with other people if, youknow, if they want to learn about it, so.
(laugh)
Mike (28:03):
What a great spot to end a New Year's message.
I mean, it's all about hopemoving forward and decisions.
Janice, it's just been a blast.
Janice (28:12):
Yeah.
Oh, I've really enjoyed this, Mike.
Thank you so much for having me.
Mike (28:16):
Well, you know, we're gonna, as you know who listen, we put links to
the Phoenix Sober Active Community,the national site, and it's many
resources attached to the podcast.
Thanks again, Janice, for being with us.
And for all of you listening,join us anytime you're able.
Until then, stay safe, livewell, and I guess, what?
(28:36):
Climb the rope.
Janice (28:38):
Climb the rope.
Absolutely.
Take a deep breath and climb the rope.
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