February 19, 2025 • 29 mins
Mimi Tallo grew up in Scranton, Pennsylvania, a northeastern, blue-collar town if there ever was one. Surrounded by dysfunction, abuse, and addiction, Mimi talks about her struggle to make something of her life while battling the demons that seemed to pop up around every corner. Mimi is a speaker, author, and podcast maven. Access to her books and story are here, and her podcast can be found here: Be Heard: Empower Yourself
The views and opinions of the guests on this podcast are theirs and theirs alone and do not necessarily represent those of the host, Westwords Consulting or the Kenosha County Substance Abuse Coalition.
We're always interested in hearing from individuals or organizations who are working in substance use disorder treatment or prevention, mental health care and other spaces that lift up communities. This includes people living those experiences. If you or someone you know has a story to share or an interesting approach to care, contact us today!
Follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
Subscribe to Our Email List to get new episodes in your inbox every week!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:12):
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
As always, I'm Mike McGowan.
Raised by Wolves, Trapped by Demonsis a fabulous book written by a
truly remarkable and resilientwoman who, not coincidentally,
(00:33):
happens to be my guest today.
Mimi Tallo grew up in and aroundScranton, Pennsylvania, a northeastern
blue collar town, if there ever was one.
Surrounded by dysfunction, abuse, andaddiction, Mimi chronicles her struggle
to make something of her life whilebattling the demons that seem to pop
up around literally every corner.
(00:53):
Mimi is a speaker,author, and podcast maven.
Welcome, Mimi.
Mimi (01:00):
Thank you for having me.
Mike (01:01):
Well, I always like to give the backstory first so people know what
we're talking about so that they can getstimulated to go buy and read the book.
But you had, to say the least, youhad a really difficult childhood.
Tell tell us a little bit about it
Mimi (01:16):
Oh my.
Well, you know, I didn't know any better.
No child knows what normal is.
I was the oldest of four.
My father was an alcoholic and I like tocall him a weekend warrior because he did
keep a job and he drank on the weekends.
I think he knew he had a problembecause he didn't drink every weekend.
So when my brother and I would comehome from school on a Friday, if there
(01:39):
was a quart of Genesee beer on thetable, we knew we were in for hell.
Mike (01:43):
Oh, yeah.
Mimi (01:45):
Yeah.
And he was the type of drinkerthat he wasn't a fun drinker.
He wasn't.
And he would call one of us out of ourbeds in the middle of the night just so
he could talk and talk and talk about histerrible life and his terrible childhood.
And I didn't know then,but I later realized.
(02:06):
I think he was gay.
I really do.
I believe he was gay.
And in the 40s, 50s, 60s.
You hid that, you got married,etc. And he was adopted, and, you
know, so he had a lot of demons.
And my mother, she didn't havethe best childhood either.
Their parents were bothimmigrants, Ireland, and Italy.
(02:30):
So my mother, she was theoldest in her family, too.
And her father owneda bar, coincidentally.
(chuckle)
Mike (02:38):
There you go.
Mimi (02:39):
Yeah, but he was very mean and strict and she was
very cold and self centered.
So the worst thing that happened inmy early childhood was when I was
five, and my brother Matthew was beingborn, and my brother Joe was four.
My parents, as they remember the story,said they had no one to take care
(03:02):
of us while mom was in the hospital.
Because in those days, if you had a boy,they had to stay in the hospital for
a few days and did the circumcision.
I don't know, they were crazy.
They put us in an orphanage for five days.
An orphanage!.
Mike (03:18):
That story just, I just went, what?
Mimi (03:21):
I know, right?
And my father said, I'll be back.
And you know, anyone that's hadexperience with nuns, and in
those days they were penguins.
They all had the habit, you know.
So I remember that and my brother,they separated the boys and the girls.
So that was like a realtraumatic experience.
And years later, when I brought it up.
(03:43):
You know, they pooh poohed it.
It's not that bad.
You weren't there that long.
You weren't there five days.
You're probably there aday, you know, that's okay.
So I bring that up too, becausefrom that day forward, I don't
remember any of my childhood.
Five to 11.
So that was my childhood.
I wasn't allowed to do anything.
(04:05):
I was very smart.
I wanted to be an English teacher and Iwent through my high school years thinking
I was going to college and on graduationday, they told me I was not going to
college because it's a waste of time.
Mike (04:21):
That's what women did.
I want to talk about yourmom in a little while.
Mimi (04:24):
Yeah.
Mike (04:25):
You talk about, well, for lack of a better word,
codependency in a very stark way.
You talk about your mom and laterin life you gave her a journal.
Mimi (04:35):
Mm hmm.
Mike (04:36):
So that you would have memories of her when she passed and go ahead.
Tell the (laugh) one of theentries was about getting pregnant.
Mimi (04:44):
Yeah, it might with me.
Mike (04:46):
Yeah.
Mimi (04:47):
So I was the oldest, like I said.
And my brother Joe and I, when wewere older, we'd kid around and say...
Because we never saw them kiss or hug.
And we used to say, well, theyhad to have sex four times because
they have four children, so,(chuckle) you know, in their life.
And my mother never liked me.
So I didn't know why.
Maybe because my father did like me.
(05:09):
Maybe I was his favorite.
I don't know what the story was there.
But I was the one that had to takecare of her in the end and get her a
nursing home, which I got her the best.
And she resented me for that.
But I flew up from Florida, she wasin Pennsylvania, and I took care of
everything, made sure everything wastop notch, and I gave her this journal.
(05:30):
Oh, I don't know what I'm going to write.
I said, well, I'll go through it with you.
And I went through it, you know,who was your best friend when
you were young, blah, blah, blah.
So when she died, of course I took thejournal home, and I went to the chapter
that said, How did you feel when youfound out you were pregnant with me?
And she wrote in the journalthat she knew I would read.
(05:51):
Well, we didn't have any money, soI kept jumping up and down off the
stairs and taking mustard baths.
Now, that sounds like tryingto have an abortion to me.
(chuckle)
Mike (06:02):
Yeah, yeah, she's trying to miscarry.
Yeah, she's trying to miscarry.
Mimi (06:06):
But to write it in a book that you knew that person
was going to read is so evil.
Mike (06:10):
Yeah, after she passes, so that's the legacy she's leaving you.
Mimi (06:15):
That was it.
Yes, you're right.
I didn't like you and I didn't ever wantyou and my brother Joe told me that when
he read that story and he told me whenno one was home, she would take him in
the basement, tie him up and beat himwith a hose and tell him my life would
be so much better if you were never born.
I never knew that.
(06:37):
I never knew my mother hit anyof us because she'd never hit me.
You know, I was like astounded thatI didn't know that was going on.
[inaudible]
Mike (06:50):
Not the abuse part, but I'll skip ahead because it applies.
You got married really young for forthe first time, and there's a part in
the book where you admonish yourselffor not recognizing your first husband
was just a younger version of your dad.
But how many youngwomen make that mistake?
(07:10):
You lived in Scranton.
That's a mining, drinking... I wouldimagine alcoholism ran rampant.
What kind of a welldating pool did you have?
Mimi (07:19):
Yeah, exactly.
Scranton started out as a coal mining townand the Governor of Scranton's family,
when they came around, they changed alot and they brought railroads in and
everything, but it was mostly coal mining.
And these miners work 12hours a day in coal mines.
There's a lot of soot in their throat.
So every corner literally had abar and before they went home, they
(07:43):
would stop in the bars to get thesoot, they'd say, out of their mouth.
So they'd have a few beers.
Okay.
And we used to say, there's only2 kinds of drinkers in Scranton,
the 1 sitting in the bar andthe 1 sitting in the AA meeting.
Mike (07:59):
(laugh)
Yeah, right.
Mimi (08:03):
So, yes, the dating pool was, there were 20 sober men and the smart
sober men had gone off to college.
Mike (08:12):
They were gone.
Mimi (08:13):
They're gone.
So mostly who was left was like,they weren't going anywhere.
But I actually got married as anescape mechanism because nothing I
brought up, they would allow me to do.
And I was brainwashed.
You know, it's like almostwhen you're in a cult.
I didn't think I had the agency to leave.
(08:34):
I didn't think I had the right,even at 19, that I could leave.
Mike (08:39):
They told you you couldn't.
You don't go to college!
Mimi (08:42):
I couldn't be, I wanted to be in the Peace Corps.
I mentioned the service.
I kept coming up with ideas and nope!
I actually got offered a job atCapitol Records, and I loved working
there, they had an office in Scranton.
You remember the record clubs?
Are you old enough to remember?
Mike (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We won't go into mysubscription woes, though.
Mimi (09:06):
That's what I did, though.
I used to do those letters.
Mike (09:08):
Well, then we talked at some point in my life.
Mimi (09:11):
We probably did.
So I was corresponding with people abouttheir albums and they didn't get them.
That was my job, and I was very good.
And then Capitol Records was goingto build that gorgeous building
in Los Angeles that looks likea pile of record albums, right?
Mike (09:26):
Mm hmm, mm hmm.
Mimi (09:27):
And they offered me a job to train their people.
They would give me a place to live.
Give me all my, all expensespaid and everything else, plane
ticket and everything, andmy other friend was gonna go.
I went, I'm so excited, and my father'slike, no you're not going, I'll
throw myself in front of the plane.
I did not go, I had to say no to that job.
(09:51):
So every time, I don't know if yourealize this, but look at movies,
every time they show a picture of L.A.,what do you see in the background?
That gosh darn Capitol Records building.
Mike (10:02):
Yeah.
Mimi (10:03):
So it brings it up every time.
So yeah, I had to get married.
It was my only way out.
And I did like the boy.
I love the boy.
And I thought he loved me.
And, you know, and even that he tried,my father tried to stop, but I didn't
know I should go so far, you know?
Mike (10:22):
You had a serious, I mean, that wasn't the last
relationship, your husband.
And I love the line that you used in thebook, if it's all right if I steal it,
where you say that the universe just keepssending you clones until you learn the
lesson the universe wants you to learn.
(chuckle)
Mimi (10:36):
That is true.
And that's actually a quote.
I want to say Buddhism, butit goes back a long, long way.
Hundreds of years, aBuddhist monk said that.
But yeah, they said that when the studentis ready, the teacher will appear.
Mike (10:50):
Right?
Right.
Mimi (10:51):
Yeah.
And how can I be ready?
I had no coping skills.
I wasn't taught anything.
Oh, I was taught was that I was nothing,I was powerless, I was not good enough.
My mother told me I had big ears and Ishouldn't wear my hair behind my ears.
I mean, I, you know so Iwas left with no choice.
(11:12):
I won't say little choice.
No choice.
And I did get married.
I shouldn't have got married,but I did and he was an
alcoholic and I had written him.
This was during the Vietnam yearsand he was in the Navy and yeah, so I
married him and found out right away.
Oh my God, here we go.
He's just a younger, cuterversion of my father.
(11:34):
(laugh)
Oh my God, so that's where I went there.
I think I was with him a year anda half and I got very depressed.
In fact, I tried to commit suicide.
You know, I'm like 22 years old.
I'm wanting to kill myself.
That was sad.
You know but he cheated on me.
(11:55):
He drank.
He didn't have a job.
He abused me.
He physically abused me.
It was just horrible.
Mike (12:03):
And then predictably, you discovered that alcohol and drugs
took care of those feelings.
Mimi (12:10):
And the whole reason that happened was I didn't drink at all.
And when I would go to a bar with him, I'dorder a 7 and 7 and sip on it all night.
And he'd make fun of me, becausethey're all hitting 'em back
.So I began to drink then.
And then after I divorced him, ironically,my job became in the hospitality field
(12:33):
in bars and restaurants and drinking wasall around me and it looked like fun and
people would buy me drinks and you know,I started drinking a little more because
the feelings of anxiety that I wouldhave, I'd be getting numbed, I'd feel, Oh!
(12:54):
I feel good.
I feel calm.
Yeah.
So it grew.
I went from not wantingto drink to enjoying it.
Mike (13:03):
There's a saying in basketball, it's not about the X's and O's,
it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's.
(laugh) Sorry, but I thought aboutthat while reading your book.
You should have just calledit All the Jimmy's and Joe's.
(laugh)
Mimi (13:14):
Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right.
But there is some evidence to supportthe theory that women may be attracted
to partners who resemble their fathers.
It's called sexual imprinting, actually.
But, unfortunately, my sexual imprintingwith my father was not a good one.
So I was attracted to the worstmen (laugh), the worst men, because
(13:39):
I divorced him and that's when myaddiction took off because for the
first time in my life, I had freedom.
Mike (13:47):
Yeah.
I had nobody.
Freedom from your thoughts.
Mimi (13:51):
My thoughts, my parents, a man.
Like I had no one telling mewhat I could and could not do.
And I had a job in the Hotel Casey, whichwas very famous at the time, political
people came and everything, and I startedto enjoy drinking, and I don't know why,
I was like 5'2" and 110 pounds, but Ihad a high tolerance for alcohol, baby.
(14:14):
I mean, I could drink.
(laugh)
Mike (14:16):
I wonder where that came from.
Mimi (14:19):
It's so funny because I was the one that they'd say, oh, let, Mimi drive.
She's good.
, . And I probably had eightscotches, or, you know.
I never like slurred my words orstaggered or any of that, you know,
I would drink and then I wouldtell myself, okay, you're tired.
(14:40):
And I would go to bed, butreally I was passing out.
Mike (14:42):
Mm-hmm.
Mimi (14:43):
But to me, I was going to bed.
And that went on for a long time.
Mike (14:46):
You also say that you never thought of your mother as a mirror.
Reflecting you'd be as an adult,but you understood that you were
her mirror with a distorted vision.
This is really powerful, butwhat was the vision, Mimi?
Mimi (15:00):
The vision was that the man is the boss and there's no way to get
away and that you take all his crap.
And you take it.
And also, you know, she wasn't veryaffectionate and I mean, she just, oh,
my mother was, she just, I'd hug her andafter a couple seconds she'd push me away.
(15:20):
So the mirror was, this is the thing.
Everyone is a mirror.
What you see in other peopleis something about yourself.
Mike (15:31):
Oh, that's great.
Mimi (15:32):
Yeah, so that's why later on I realized, realized she was a
mirror, but it was a distortion.
It wasn't really who I was goingto be or who I wanted to be.
So that's what I meant by that quote.
Mike (15:47):
Well, you know, and I laughed out loud when I was reading your
book, because at one point you saythat your life was full of characters
from a Quentin Tarantino movieand it reads that way, by the way.
So but it sure seems that way.
Talk about your honeymoonnight with Jerry.
Cause that's right out ofa Quentin Tarantino movie.
Mimi (16:05):
Oh, my husband.
Well, I'll tell you what I'm with him37 years and he's my third husband.
So I always tell people thatmeans it was them not me.
Cause the other two didn't makeit, you know, and he's 37 years.
But when we met, we were both drinkers.
And we ended up buying a bar together.
(16:27):
Oh, that was an intelligentdecision to alcoholics.
He was a teacher during the day, and Ihad a job, but I ended up doing the bar
full time running it and everything.
So then we get married and wehave this wedding reception in
our bar and the liquor is flowing.
(16:50):
And I had made arrangements that afterthe reception, we were getting on a
plane and going right to our honeymoon.
And he was not my type of drinker.
He was the face in the mashed
potatoes drinker, (laugh)
if you can picture, you know?
And in fact, I had pictures of himin the bar when he would be out head
(17:12):
down on the bar and people would put
funny hats on him.
And, you know, that's the drinker he was.
So we
were leaving and I said, do... not... speak... until that plane takes
off because if they know you're drunk,we might not be able to board the plane.
I said, don't you open your mouth.
(17:32):
So he pouted, literallypouted in the airport.
Got up, pouting, pouting.
And we go to Disney Worldand get our hotel room.
This is our wedding night.
And of course he just zonks right out.
He's out.
He's out.
And I said, well, this is lovely, causeI could drink and still have sex, but he
(17:54):
couldn't, he was uh uh (hands raised)
So I thought, well, I'll watch a pay for... the hotel had
the pay per view movies, and theonly thing on was Jodie Foster.
And it was the movie where she gets raped.
I'm
like, really?
(laugh)
Mike (18:09):
So you spent your wedding night watching The Accused.
Mimi (18:12):
Yes, yes.
And that's burned into my memory.
Yeah, we had a good time.
But that was my husband.
He wasn't able to drink and function.
You know, he just
couldn't.
(chuckle)
One of the
Mike (18:28):
things, Mimi, I've, and you have a podcast, which is delightful.
One of the things I'm sure you'resaying that I've loved about these
podcasts is how many wonderful andresilient people I get to meet.
It's just people have endlesscapacity for resilience through all
of this, everything you've described.
And by the way, we're hitting onlya few of the highlights folks.
(18:49):
June of 1990.
what
happened?
Are we talking about college,what are we talking about June?
Yeah.
Well,
Mimi (19:00):
what happened was... don't forget I was blocked from going to college and when
I divorced my husband, the second husbandthat I have two children with who stalked
me even after we were divorced, he stalkedme and he didn't pay child support.
So I was on medical assistance.
I was on welfare.
And the government, God blessthem, would send me to college.
(19:24):
So I got food stamps.
I got money every month.
I got to go to college.
I got daycare.
It was a miracle.
So actually my first two yearswere from 1977 to 1979 and, he just
wouldn't let up on the stalking.
He drove on the quad, thecollege quad on campus with his
(19:45):
car and tried to run me over.
I mean, it was insane.
So I had not a nervous breakdown,but I started having anxiety attacks.
So I stopped.
So after I was with Jerryand I got married to Jerry,
I decided I would finish.
I wanted that bachelor's degree.
So I went back to college.
(20:06):
And I ended up graduating then in 1990.
Mike (20:10):
Unbelievable.
Mimi (20:11):
I had finished the two years.
Mm hmm.
Mike (20:14):
Climbing up Maslow's hierarchy.
Mimi (20:17):
I learned about that in college, and it made a lot of sense.
And for those people that don't know,it's very simple when you explain it.
It's like a pyramid, and the first rungis, when you're a human, what do you need?
You need food and waterand a roof over your head.
You need safety from the elements, right?
(20:39):
Well, I spent half my life doingthat, just looking for food and
security for me and my children.
Right.
And then it talks about how thenyou make contact with people and
you get educated and it reached thetop, which is self actualization.
So it took me quite a while tostart getting up that hierarchy.
(21:02):
But I feel like I'm close.
Mike (21:05):
Yeah.
Well, let's get you closer.
You have another Quentin Tarantinomoment, for me, anyway, in your book.
So you're still drinking at thispoint, you're experiencing blackouts,
you get into a terrible car accident.
Mimi (21:17):
Yeah.
Mike (21:17):
You said out loud, as you say in the book, God, please help me.
I can't take this anymore.
And you walk into whose office?
Mimi (21:25):
Dr. Bob.
Mike (21:26):
Okay.
Mimi (21:27):
And not that Dr. Bob.
Mike (21:29):
No, but the guy's name is Dr. Bob, and for those of you who
are recovering, you're laughing.
For those of you who are not, Dr.Bob and Bill W. were two of the
founders of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Mimi (21:41):
Yes,
Mike (21:41):
they were.
Mimi (21:42):
And I didn't know that.
You know, of course I didn't know that.
I bought this bar, and across thestreet was this very handsome,
charming chiropractor called Dr.Bob, and everybody loved him.
And he was cross addicted.
He did drugs and alcohol and he was sucha good chiropractor that you didn't care.
(22:03):
Like he really, he had a gift.
He had a gift.
And he would call me on the phonewhile he was working and say, make me
a cocktail, make me something good.
And bring it over.
2 o'clock in the afternoon, he'sworking on patients and I bring it over.
But every once in a while, he'dget really bad, really out of hand.
And his family would send him away.
(22:26):
His family was a very respectable family.
In fact, his father was the principalat the school where my husband worked.
So when I did that, I immediatelygot out of the car and I said,
Bob, I want to go to that placeyou go to when you get really bad.
And I really, I was into deep depression.
(22:47):
I was in a deep depression.
So I wasn't thinking Iwas an alcoholic yet.
I was saying this because I thoughtI didn't like the blackouts.
Because that means I don't have power.
I don't know what's going onand I needed to have power.
I needed to be in control.
So they made the phone call andI was there that night and I
(23:08):
thought I was going to a spa.
(laugh)
Mike (23:11):
Oh, there you go.
Mimi (23:14):
And when I got there, they tell me, you're not at a spa, honey,
you don't need the bathing suit,you don't need these magazines.
(laugh)
And I get the bigquestion, what do I read?
Dr. Bob, I thought.
Yeah.
Mike (23:28):
Message.
Mimi (23:29):
Ironic, it's really.
Really?
Unbelievable.
And I will tell you, unfortunately,that Dr. Bob, he never stopped.
He almost died of an overdose.
He did something called a speedball.
And he ended up in a coma for weeks.
When he came out of the coma, hedidn't recognize his family members.
(23:50):
But when my husband and I walked inthe hospital, he knew who we were.
(laugh)
Mike (23:56):
amazing.
Mimi (23:57):
And he lost his house, his home, his practice, and he ended
up living in like a special aidhome because he was brain damaged.
Mike (24:07):
Well, Mimi even your recovery and your treatment was
a little out of the ordinary.
I think you're the only person I've evermet who got a get well soon card while
in rehab from the Budweiser distributor.
Mimi (24:21):
Actually, it was more than one distributor.
(laugh) It was also Genesee and FerrantiBrothers, which did another one.
These bouquets of flowerswere coming in, huge bouquets.
And I have to say, thistreatment center was so good.
They actually had moviestars that had gone there.
(24:41):
And I can tell you one of thembecause it's public knowledge,
not breaking anonymity.
Kathleen.... Kathleen Turner.
Mike (24:51):
Oh, sure.
Mimi (24:51):
I actually counseled Kathleen Turner years later.
Mike (24:56):
No way.
That's great.
Mimi (24:59):
Gary Oldman went there.
Like it was a super fourstar, five star place.
And I came and these flowersstart coming, these huge bouquets.
And the other patients werelike, who the hell is this chick?
You know, who, who is she?
And I'm trying to figure if I was amovie star or something, I don't know.
(laugh)
But yeah, and right away with mypersonality, of course, the gals.
(25:23):
All got drawn to me and I was likeleader of the pack with the girls.
And flirting with the guys.
My usual personality.
(laugh)
Mike (25:32):
But it stuck.
How long have you been in recovery now?
Mimi (25:36):
33 years.
Mike (25:37):
Oh, congratulations.
Mimi (25:38):
I know, I'll have 34 in May.
And I had a little altercation witha male counselor there because he saw
that I was like running the place,you know, and he came over to me
when I was talking to a girl that wascrying and he said, what's going on?
And I said, Oh, it's girl stuff.
(25:58):
Like I shushed him away.
He said, well, you might aswell tell me to go fuck myself.
And I was, like, horrifiedthat he talked to me that way.
So I reported him right away.
(laugh) He got in trouble.
So he told his friends, Oh,she won't make it a week.
Mike (26:16):
Right.
Mimi (26:17):
Because of my personality.
So when I had a year, I made sure Iwent there to get my one year chip so
he would see me get my one year chip.
Mike (26:25):
(laugh) There you go.
Was he still there?
Mimi (26:28):
He was there.
Mike (26:28):
That's great.
Mimi (26:29):
And I walked by him and I said, I hope you didn't lose
too much money on your bet.
Mike (26:34):
Oh, that's great.
That's great.
Even in sobriety, Mimi, there'slessons in your chapter, Magic
Mountain, Disney reference.
There's way too many listings ofpeople you knew dying before old age.
Not that you escaped.
I think you and I are in the same boat.
We can't get through an airport.
We got so many differentparts on us, right?
Mimi (26:55):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Mike (26:58):
But life is a challenge, but look at how you're looking at it.
Mimi (27:02):
I had a book signing in Pennsylvania year after my book came out and.
At a coffee shop and Ihad so many people come.
I was so, so honored and surprised.
And I signed their books andthey said, we never knew you
went through all that stuff.
Mike (27:17):
Right.
Mimi (27:17):
Because you always had a smile on your face and
you're always a happy person.
And then the people in Florida that readthe book that only knew me like this,
like waitresses and friends I made here.
They told me, look it, we wouldread a couple chapters and have to
put it down because we'd cry becausewe know you and we hated reading
(27:40):
that stuff that happened to you.
And then we turn the page andyou'd make us laugh because I'd
put something funny in there.
(laugh)
Yeah.
Mike (27:51):
And for those of you, you got to get the book.
So go ahead and do that.
Mimi (27:54):
Raised by Wolves, Trapped by Demons.
And see, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not good at this, all thestuff up to the camera thing.
Mike (28:04):
But you know, Mimi also has it's not a companion workbook, but there's a
workbook that you can use along with it.
Those are, we have a lot oftherapists who are listening.
And for those of you who will read it,you will notice that like any good author,
there's cliffhangers at the end of everychapter, so we're going to leave you one.
We're going to leaveyou with a cliffhanger.
Mimi and I are going to have a parttwo conversation a few weeks from now.
(28:27):
Turns out we have one otherthing in common, Mimi.
Mimi (28:30):
Yes, we do.
Mike (28:31):
Both our dads are 100 percent Irish.
Mimi (28:34):
That's right.
And they always say nobody's100 percent anything.
Well, they're wrong.
(laugh) We proved that.
My father grew up thinkinghe was half Sicilian.
It's insane.
He spoke Sicilian.
He spoke it.
He went to Sicily.
He met his so called relatives.
I mean, it's, you'll readthat in that [inaudible].
Mike (28:55):
Yeah, it's great.
Mimi, this has been delightful.
I know we're going to talk againshortly, but thanks for your story, for
your inspiration, your terrific book.
For those of you listening,watching, I hope you find
strength to slay your own demons.
We all have them.
As always, thanks for listening.
Be safe.
And whatever you do, keep moving forward.
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
As always, I'm Mike McGowan.
Raised by Wolves, Trapped by Demonsis a fabulous book written by a
truly remarkable and resilientwoman who, not coincidentally,
(00:33):
happens to be my guest today.
Mimi Tallo grew up in and aroundScranton, Pennsylvania, a northeastern
blue collar town, if there ever was one.
Surrounded by dysfunction, abuse, andaddiction, Mimi chronicles her struggle
to make something of her life whilebattling the demons that seem to pop
up around literally every corner.
(00:53):
Mimi is a speaker,author, and podcast maven.
Welcome, Mimi.
Mimi (01:00):
Thank you for having me.
Mike (01:01):
Well, I always like to give the backstory first so people know what
we're talking about so that they can getstimulated to go buy and read the book.
But you had, to say the least, youhad a really difficult childhood.
Tell tell us a little bit about it
Mimi (01:16):
Oh my.
Well, you know, I didn't know any better.
No child knows what normal is.
I was the oldest of four.
My father was an alcoholic and I like tocall him a weekend warrior because he did
keep a job and he drank on the weekends.
I think he knew he had a problembecause he didn't drink every weekend.
So when my brother and I would comehome from school on a Friday, if there
(01:39):
was a quart of Genesee beer on thetable, we knew we were in for hell.
Mike (01:43):
Oh, yeah.
Mimi (01:45):
Yeah.
And he was the type of drinkerthat he wasn't a fun drinker.
He wasn't.
And he would call one of us out of ourbeds in the middle of the night just so
he could talk and talk and talk about histerrible life and his terrible childhood.
And I didn't know then,but I later realized.
(02:06):
I think he was gay.
I really do.
I believe he was gay.
And in the 40s, 50s, 60s.
You hid that, you got married,etc. And he was adopted, and, you
know, so he had a lot of demons.
And my mother, she didn't havethe best childhood either.
Their parents were bothimmigrants, Ireland, and Italy.
(02:30):
So my mother, she was theoldest in her family, too.
And her father owneda bar, coincidentally.
(chuckle)
Mike (02:38):
There you go.
Mimi (02:39):
Yeah, but he was very mean and strict and she was
very cold and self centered.
So the worst thing that happened inmy early childhood was when I was
five, and my brother Matthew was beingborn, and my brother Joe was four.
My parents, as they remember the story,said they had no one to take care
(03:02):
of us while mom was in the hospital.
Because in those days, if you had a boy,they had to stay in the hospital for
a few days and did the circumcision.
I don't know, they were crazy.
They put us in an orphanage for five days.
An orphanage!.
Mike (03:18):
That story just, I just went, what?
Mimi (03:21):
I know, right?
And my father said, I'll be back.
And you know, anyone that's hadexperience with nuns, and in
those days they were penguins.
They all had the habit, you know.
So I remember that and my brother,they separated the boys and the girls.
So that was like a realtraumatic experience.
And years later, when I brought it up.
(03:43):
You know, they pooh poohed it.
It's not that bad.
You weren't there that long.
You weren't there five days.
You're probably there aday, you know, that's okay.
So I bring that up too, becausefrom that day forward, I don't
remember any of my childhood.
Five to 11.
So that was my childhood.
I wasn't allowed to do anything.
(04:05):
I was very smart.
I wanted to be an English teacher and Iwent through my high school years thinking
I was going to college and on graduationday, they told me I was not going to
college because it's a waste of time.
Mike (04:21):
That's what women did.
I want to talk about yourmom in a little while.
Mimi (04:24):
Yeah.
Mike (04:25):
You talk about, well, for lack of a better word,
codependency in a very stark way.
You talk about your mom and laterin life you gave her a journal.
Mimi (04:35):
Mm hmm.
Mike (04:36):
So that you would have memories of her when she passed and go ahead.
Tell the (laugh) one of theentries was about getting pregnant.
Mimi (04:44):
Yeah, it might with me.
Mike (04:46):
Yeah.
Mimi (04:47):
So I was the oldest, like I said.
And my brother Joe and I, when wewere older, we'd kid around and say...
Because we never saw them kiss or hug.
And we used to say, well, theyhad to have sex four times because
they have four children, so,(chuckle) you know, in their life.
And my mother never liked me.
So I didn't know why.
Maybe because my father did like me.
(05:09):
Maybe I was his favorite.
I don't know what the story was there.
But I was the one that had to takecare of her in the end and get her a
nursing home, which I got her the best.
And she resented me for that.
But I flew up from Florida, she wasin Pennsylvania, and I took care of
everything, made sure everything wastop notch, and I gave her this journal.
(05:30):
Oh, I don't know what I'm going to write.
I said, well, I'll go through it with you.
And I went through it, you know,who was your best friend when
you were young, blah, blah, blah.
So when she died, of course I took thejournal home, and I went to the chapter
that said, How did you feel when youfound out you were pregnant with me?
And she wrote in the journalthat she knew I would read.
(05:51):
Well, we didn't have any money, soI kept jumping up and down off the
stairs and taking mustard baths.
Now, that sounds like tryingto have an abortion to me.
(chuckle)
Mike (06:02):
Yeah, yeah, she's trying to miscarry.
Yeah, she's trying to miscarry.
Mimi (06:06):
But to write it in a book that you knew that person
was going to read is so evil.
Mike (06:10):
Yeah, after she passes, so that's the legacy she's leaving you.
Mimi (06:15):
That was it.
Yes, you're right.
I didn't like you and I didn't ever wantyou and my brother Joe told me that when
he read that story and he told me whenno one was home, she would take him in
the basement, tie him up and beat himwith a hose and tell him my life would
be so much better if you were never born.
I never knew that.
(06:37):
I never knew my mother hit anyof us because she'd never hit me.
You know, I was like astounded thatI didn't know that was going on.
[inaudible]
Mike (06:50):
Not the abuse part, but I'll skip ahead because it applies.
You got married really young for forthe first time, and there's a part in
the book where you admonish yourselffor not recognizing your first husband
was just a younger version of your dad.
But how many youngwomen make that mistake?
(07:10):
You lived in Scranton.
That's a mining, drinking... I wouldimagine alcoholism ran rampant.
What kind of a welldating pool did you have?
Mimi (07:19):
Yeah, exactly.
Scranton started out as a coal mining townand the Governor of Scranton's family,
when they came around, they changed alot and they brought railroads in and
everything, but it was mostly coal mining.
And these miners work 12hours a day in coal mines.
There's a lot of soot in their throat.
So every corner literally had abar and before they went home, they
(07:43):
would stop in the bars to get thesoot, they'd say, out of their mouth.
So they'd have a few beers.
Okay.
And we used to say, there's only2 kinds of drinkers in Scranton,
the 1 sitting in the bar andthe 1 sitting in the AA meeting.
Mike (07:59):
(laugh)
Yeah, right.
Mimi (08:03):
So, yes, the dating pool was, there were 20 sober men and the smart
sober men had gone off to college.
Mike (08:12):
They were gone.
Mimi (08:13):
They're gone.
So mostly who was left was like,they weren't going anywhere.
But I actually got married as anescape mechanism because nothing I
brought up, they would allow me to do.
And I was brainwashed.
You know, it's like almostwhen you're in a cult.
I didn't think I had the agency to leave.
(08:34):
I didn't think I had the right,even at 19, that I could leave.
Mike (08:39):
They told you you couldn't.
You don't go to college!
Mimi (08:42):
I couldn't be, I wanted to be in the Peace Corps.
I mentioned the service.
I kept coming up with ideas and nope!
I actually got offered a job atCapitol Records, and I loved working
there, they had an office in Scranton.
You remember the record clubs?
Are you old enough to remember?
Mike (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We won't go into mysubscription woes, though.
Mimi (09:06):
That's what I did, though.
I used to do those letters.
Mike (09:08):
Well, then we talked at some point in my life.
Mimi (09:11):
We probably did.
So I was corresponding with people abouttheir albums and they didn't get them.
That was my job, and I was very good.
And then Capitol Records was goingto build that gorgeous building
in Los Angeles that looks likea pile of record albums, right?
Mike (09:26):
Mm hmm, mm hmm.
Mimi (09:27):
And they offered me a job to train their people.
They would give me a place to live.
Give me all my, all expensespaid and everything else, plane
ticket and everything, andmy other friend was gonna go.
I went, I'm so excited, and my father'slike, no you're not going, I'll
throw myself in front of the plane.
I did not go, I had to say no to that job.
(09:51):
So every time, I don't know if yourealize this, but look at movies,
every time they show a picture of L.A.,what do you see in the background?
That gosh darn Capitol Records building.
Mike (10:02):
Yeah.
Mimi (10:03):
So it brings it up every time.
So yeah, I had to get married.
It was my only way out.
And I did like the boy.
I love the boy.
And I thought he loved me.
And, you know, and even that he tried,my father tried to stop, but I didn't
know I should go so far, you know?
Mike (10:22):
You had a serious, I mean, that wasn't the last
relationship, your husband.
And I love the line that you used in thebook, if it's all right if I steal it,
where you say that the universe just keepssending you clones until you learn the
lesson the universe wants you to learn.
(chuckle)
Mimi (10:36):
That is true.
And that's actually a quote.
I want to say Buddhism, butit goes back a long, long way.
Hundreds of years, aBuddhist monk said that.
But yeah, they said that when the studentis ready, the teacher will appear.
Mike (10:50):
Right?
Right.
Mimi (10:51):
Yeah.
And how can I be ready?
I had no coping skills.
I wasn't taught anything.
Oh, I was taught was that I was nothing,I was powerless, I was not good enough.
My mother told me I had big ears and Ishouldn't wear my hair behind my ears.
I mean, I, you know so Iwas left with no choice.
(11:12):
I won't say little choice.
No choice.
And I did get married.
I shouldn't have got married,but I did and he was an
alcoholic and I had written him.
This was during the Vietnam yearsand he was in the Navy and yeah, so I
married him and found out right away.
Oh my God, here we go.
He's just a younger, cuterversion of my father.
(11:34):
(laugh)
Oh my God, so that's where I went there.
I think I was with him a year anda half and I got very depressed.
In fact, I tried to commit suicide.
You know, I'm like 22 years old.
I'm wanting to kill myself.
That was sad.
You know but he cheated on me.
(11:55):
He drank.
He didn't have a job.
He abused me.
He physically abused me.
It was just horrible.
Mike (12:03):
And then predictably, you discovered that alcohol and drugs
took care of those feelings.
Mimi (12:10):
And the whole reason that happened was I didn't drink at all.
And when I would go to a bar with him, I'dorder a 7 and 7 and sip on it all night.
And he'd make fun of me, becausethey're all hitting 'em back
.So I began to drink then.
And then after I divorced him, ironically,my job became in the hospitality field
(12:33):
in bars and restaurants and drinking wasall around me and it looked like fun and
people would buy me drinks and you know,I started drinking a little more because
the feelings of anxiety that I wouldhave, I'd be getting numbed, I'd feel, Oh!
(12:54):
I feel good.
I feel calm.
Yeah.
So it grew.
I went from not wantingto drink to enjoying it.
Mike (13:03):
There's a saying in basketball, it's not about the X's and O's,
it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's.
(laugh) Sorry, but I thought aboutthat while reading your book.
You should have just calledit All the Jimmy's and Joe's.
(laugh)
Mimi (13:14):
Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right.
But there is some evidence to supportthe theory that women may be attracted
to partners who resemble their fathers.
It's called sexual imprinting, actually.
But, unfortunately, my sexual imprintingwith my father was not a good one.
So I was attracted to the worstmen (laugh), the worst men, because
(13:39):
I divorced him and that's when myaddiction took off because for the
first time in my life, I had freedom.
Mike (13:47):
Yeah.
I had nobody.
Freedom from your thoughts.
Mimi (13:51):
My thoughts, my parents, a man.
Like I had no one telling mewhat I could and could not do.
And I had a job in the Hotel Casey, whichwas very famous at the time, political
people came and everything, and I startedto enjoy drinking, and I don't know why,
I was like 5'2" and 110 pounds, but Ihad a high tolerance for alcohol, baby.
(14:14):
I mean, I could drink.
(laugh)
Mike (14:16):
I wonder where that came from.
Mimi (14:19):
It's so funny because I was the one that they'd say, oh, let, Mimi drive.
She's good.
, . And I probably had eightscotches, or, you know.
I never like slurred my words orstaggered or any of that, you know,
I would drink and then I wouldtell myself, okay, you're tired.
(14:40):
And I would go to bed, butreally I was passing out.
Mike (14:42):
Mm-hmm.
Mimi (14:43):
But to me, I was going to bed.
And that went on for a long time.
Mike (14:46):
You also say that you never thought of your mother as a mirror.
Reflecting you'd be as an adult,but you understood that you were
her mirror with a distorted vision.
This is really powerful, butwhat was the vision, Mimi?
Mimi (15:00):
The vision was that the man is the boss and there's no way to get
away and that you take all his crap.
And you take it.
And also, you know, she wasn't veryaffectionate and I mean, she just, oh,
my mother was, she just, I'd hug her andafter a couple seconds she'd push me away.
(15:20):
So the mirror was, this is the thing.
Everyone is a mirror.
What you see in other peopleis something about yourself.
Mike (15:31):
Oh, that's great.
Mimi (15:32):
Yeah, so that's why later on I realized, realized she was a
mirror, but it was a distortion.
It wasn't really who I was goingto be or who I wanted to be.
So that's what I meant by that quote.
Mike (15:47):
Well, you know, and I laughed out loud when I was reading your
book, because at one point you saythat your life was full of characters
from a Quentin Tarantino movieand it reads that way, by the way.
So but it sure seems that way.
Talk about your honeymoonnight with Jerry.
Cause that's right out ofa Quentin Tarantino movie.
Mimi (16:05):
Oh, my husband.
Well, I'll tell you what I'm with him37 years and he's my third husband.
So I always tell people thatmeans it was them not me.
Cause the other two didn't makeit, you know, and he's 37 years.
But when we met, we were both drinkers.
And we ended up buying a bar together.
(16:27):
Oh, that was an intelligentdecision to alcoholics.
He was a teacher during the day, and Ihad a job, but I ended up doing the bar
full time running it and everything.
So then we get married and wehave this wedding reception in
our bar and the liquor is flowing.
(16:50):
And I had made arrangements that afterthe reception, we were getting on a
plane and going right to our honeymoon.
And he was not my type of drinker.
He was the face in the mashed
potatoes drinker, (laugh)
if you can picture, you know?
And in fact, I had pictures of himin the bar when he would be out head
(17:12):
down on the bar and people would put
funny hats on him.
And, you know, that's the drinker he was.
So we
were leaving and I said, do... not... speak... until that plane takes
off because if they know you're drunk,we might not be able to board the plane.
I said, don't you open your mouth.
(17:32):
So he pouted, literallypouted in the airport.
Got up, pouting, pouting.
And we go to Disney Worldand get our hotel room.
This is our wedding night.
And of course he just zonks right out.
He's out.
He's out.
And I said, well, this is lovely, causeI could drink and still have sex, but he
(17:54):
couldn't, he was uh uh (hands raised)
So I thought, well, I'll watch a pay for... the hotel had
the pay per view movies, and theonly thing on was Jodie Foster.
And it was the movie where she gets raped.
I'm
like, really?
(laugh)
Mike (18:09):
So you spent your wedding night watching The Accused.
Mimi (18:12):
Yes, yes.
And that's burned into my memory.
Yeah, we had a good time.
But that was my husband.
He wasn't able to drink and function.
You know, he just
couldn't.
(chuckle)
One of the
Mike (18:28):
things, Mimi, I've, and you have a podcast, which is delightful.
One of the things I'm sure you'resaying that I've loved about these
podcasts is how many wonderful andresilient people I get to meet.
It's just people have endlesscapacity for resilience through all
of this, everything you've described.
And by the way, we're hitting onlya few of the highlights folks.
(18:49):
June of 1990.
what
happened?
Are we talking about college,what are we talking about June?
Yeah.
Well,
Mimi (19:00):
what happened was... don't forget I was blocked from going to college and when
I divorced my husband, the second husbandthat I have two children with who stalked
me even after we were divorced, he stalkedme and he didn't pay child support.
So I was on medical assistance.
I was on welfare.
And the government, God blessthem, would send me to college.
(19:24):
So I got food stamps.
I got money every month.
I got to go to college.
I got daycare.
It was a miracle.
So actually my first two yearswere from 1977 to 1979 and, he just
wouldn't let up on the stalking.
He drove on the quad, thecollege quad on campus with his
(19:45):
car and tried to run me over.
I mean, it was insane.
So I had not a nervous breakdown,but I started having anxiety attacks.
So I stopped.
So after I was with Jerryand I got married to Jerry,
I decided I would finish.
I wanted that bachelor's degree.
So I went back to college.
(20:06):
And I ended up graduating then in 1990.
Mike (20:10):
Unbelievable.
Mimi (20:11):
I had finished the two years.
Mm hmm.
Mike (20:14):
Climbing up Maslow's hierarchy.
Mimi (20:17):
I learned about that in college, and it made a lot of sense.
And for those people that don't know,it's very simple when you explain it.
It's like a pyramid, and the first rungis, when you're a human, what do you need?
You need food and waterand a roof over your head.
You need safety from the elements, right?
(20:39):
Well, I spent half my life doingthat, just looking for food and
security for me and my children.
Right.
And then it talks about how thenyou make contact with people and
you get educated and it reached thetop, which is self actualization.
So it took me quite a while tostart getting up that hierarchy.
(21:02):
But I feel like I'm close.
Mike (21:05):
Yeah.
Well, let's get you closer.
You have another Quentin Tarantinomoment, for me, anyway, in your book.
So you're still drinking at thispoint, you're experiencing blackouts,
you get into a terrible car accident.
Mimi (21:17):
Yeah.
Mike (21:17):
You said out loud, as you say in the book, God, please help me.
I can't take this anymore.
And you walk into whose office?
Mimi (21:25):
Dr. Bob.
Mike (21:26):
Okay.
Mimi (21:27):
And not that Dr. Bob.
Mike (21:29):
No, but the guy's name is Dr. Bob, and for those of you who
are recovering, you're laughing.
For those of you who are not, Dr.Bob and Bill W. were two of the
founders of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Mimi (21:41):
Yes,
Mike (21:41):
they were.
Mimi (21:42):
And I didn't know that.
You know, of course I didn't know that.
I bought this bar, and across thestreet was this very handsome,
charming chiropractor called Dr.Bob, and everybody loved him.
And he was cross addicted.
He did drugs and alcohol and he was sucha good chiropractor that you didn't care.
(22:03):
Like he really, he had a gift.
He had a gift.
And he would call me on the phonewhile he was working and say, make me
a cocktail, make me something good.
And bring it over.
2 o'clock in the afternoon, he'sworking on patients and I bring it over.
But every once in a while, he'dget really bad, really out of hand.
And his family would send him away.
(22:26):
His family was a very respectable family.
In fact, his father was the principalat the school where my husband worked.
So when I did that, I immediatelygot out of the car and I said,
Bob, I want to go to that placeyou go to when you get really bad.
And I really, I was into deep depression.
(22:47):
I was in a deep depression.
So I wasn't thinking Iwas an alcoholic yet.
I was saying this because I thoughtI didn't like the blackouts.
Because that means I don't have power.
I don't know what's going onand I needed to have power.
I needed to be in control.
So they made the phone call andI was there that night and I
(23:08):
thought I was going to a spa.
(laugh)
Mike (23:11):
Oh, there you go.
Mimi (23:14):
And when I got there, they tell me, you're not at a spa, honey,
you don't need the bathing suit,you don't need these magazines.
(laugh)
And I get the bigquestion, what do I read?
Dr. Bob, I thought.
Yeah.
Mike (23:28):
Message.
Mimi (23:29):
Ironic, it's really.
Really?
Unbelievable.
And I will tell you, unfortunately,that Dr. Bob, he never stopped.
He almost died of an overdose.
He did something called a speedball.
And he ended up in a coma for weeks.
When he came out of the coma, hedidn't recognize his family members.
(23:50):
But when my husband and I walked inthe hospital, he knew who we were.
(laugh)
Mike (23:56):
amazing.
Mimi (23:57):
And he lost his house, his home, his practice, and he ended
up living in like a special aidhome because he was brain damaged.
Mike (24:07):
Well, Mimi even your recovery and your treatment was
a little out of the ordinary.
I think you're the only person I've evermet who got a get well soon card while
in rehab from the Budweiser distributor.
Mimi (24:21):
Actually, it was more than one distributor.
(laugh) It was also Genesee and FerrantiBrothers, which did another one.
These bouquets of flowerswere coming in, huge bouquets.
And I have to say, thistreatment center was so good.
They actually had moviestars that had gone there.
(24:41):
And I can tell you one of thembecause it's public knowledge,
not breaking anonymity.
Kathleen.... Kathleen Turner.
Mike (24:51):
Oh, sure.
Mimi (24:51):
I actually counseled Kathleen Turner years later.
Mike (24:56):
No way.
That's great.
Mimi (24:59):
Gary Oldman went there.
Like it was a super fourstar, five star place.
And I came and these flowersstart coming, these huge bouquets.
And the other patients werelike, who the hell is this chick?
You know, who, who is she?
And I'm trying to figure if I was amovie star or something, I don't know.
(laugh)
But yeah, and right away with mypersonality, of course, the gals.
(25:23):
All got drawn to me and I was likeleader of the pack with the girls.
And flirting with the guys.
My usual personality.
(laugh)
Mike (25:32):
But it stuck.
How long have you been in recovery now?
Mimi (25:36):
33 years.
Mike (25:37):
Oh, congratulations.
Mimi (25:38):
I know, I'll have 34 in May.
And I had a little altercation witha male counselor there because he saw
that I was like running the place,you know, and he came over to me
when I was talking to a girl that wascrying and he said, what's going on?
And I said, Oh, it's girl stuff.
(25:58):
Like I shushed him away.
He said, well, you might aswell tell me to go fuck myself.
And I was, like, horrifiedthat he talked to me that way.
So I reported him right away.
(laugh) He got in trouble.
So he told his friends, Oh,she won't make it a week.
Mike (26:16):
Right.
Mimi (26:17):
Because of my personality.
So when I had a year, I made sure Iwent there to get my one year chip so
he would see me get my one year chip.
Mike (26:25):
(laugh) There you go.
Was he still there?
Mimi (26:28):
He was there.
Mike (26:28):
That's great.
Mimi (26:29):
And I walked by him and I said, I hope you didn't lose
too much money on your bet.
Mike (26:34):
Oh, that's great.
That's great.
Even in sobriety, Mimi, there'slessons in your chapter, Magic
Mountain, Disney reference.
There's way too many listings ofpeople you knew dying before old age.
Not that you escaped.
I think you and I are in the same boat.
We can't get through an airport.
We got so many differentparts on us, right?
Mimi (26:55):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Mike (26:58):
But life is a challenge, but look at how you're looking at it.
Mimi (27:02):
I had a book signing in Pennsylvania year after my book came out and.
At a coffee shop and Ihad so many people come.
I was so, so honored and surprised.
And I signed their books andthey said, we never knew you
went through all that stuff.
Mike (27:17):
Right.
Mimi (27:17):
Because you always had a smile on your face and
you're always a happy person.
And then the people in Florida that readthe book that only knew me like this,
like waitresses and friends I made here.
They told me, look it, we wouldread a couple chapters and have to
put it down because we'd cry becausewe know you and we hated reading
(27:40):
that stuff that happened to you.
And then we turn the page andyou'd make us laugh because I'd
put something funny in there.
(laugh)
Yeah.
Mike (27:51):
And for those of you, you got to get the book.
So go ahead and do that.
Mimi (27:54):
Raised by Wolves, Trapped by Demons.
And see, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not good at this, all thestuff up to the camera thing.
Mike (28:04):
But you know, Mimi also has it's not a companion workbook, but there's a
workbook that you can use along with it.
Those are, we have a lot oftherapists who are listening.
And for those of you who will read it,you will notice that like any good author,
there's cliffhangers at the end of everychapter, so we're going to leave you one.
We're going to leaveyou with a cliffhanger.
Mimi and I are going to have a parttwo conversation a few weeks from now.
(28:27):
Turns out we have one otherthing in common, Mimi.
Mimi (28:30):
Yes, we do.
Mike (28:31):
Both our dads are 100 percent Irish.
Mimi (28:34):
That's right.
And they always say nobody's100 percent anything.
Well, they're wrong.
(laugh) We proved that.
My father grew up thinkinghe was half Sicilian.
It's insane.
He spoke Sicilian.
He spoke it.
He went to Sicily.
He met his so called relatives.
I mean, it's, you'll readthat in that [inaudible].
Mike (28:55):
Yeah, it's great.
Mimi, this has been delightful.
I know we're going to talk againshortly, but thanks for your story, for
your inspiration, your terrific book.
For those of you listening,watching, I hope you find
strength to slay your own demons.
We all have them.
As always, thanks for listening.
Be safe.
And whatever you do, keep moving forward.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com