August 30, 2024 • 48 mins
Sean Brace and Evan Davis sit down with Paris Smith, former CEO of Pinnacle and currently an independent consultant in the sports gambling industry. Paris' unparalleled expertise in the online gaming industry has made her a sought-after advisor. Now with Rithmm as an investor & advisor, Paris has plenty of action on her plate. A tremendous guest for our final Behind The Vig! -SB
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to Behind the Vague, a podcast mini
series that takes you beyond the bets and strategies and
more into the business of the sports betting industry. Now
Here are your hosts, Sean Brace and Evan Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
That's why you heard the man Episode eight Behind the
veg Let's go, and I know we saved the best
for last, but all due respect to our seven great
guests on previous episodes at foxpho gilber dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Evan, I am excited to talk to the one and
only Paris Smith. We're talking Pinnacle CEO for close to
two decades.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
I believe this is going to be amazing.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
Yeah, I can't wait. I mean, Paris is just a
legend in this industry and has been for quite some time.
So you know, when I asked her if she would
be willing to do this, I was just pumped. When
She's like, yeah, absolutely, what Let's find the time that works.
So can't wait to talk to her about you know,
everything that she did she was at Pinnacle and just
(01:01):
as much what she's been doing on the eighteen months
or so since she left.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Hey, anybody that's got Billy Walters on the cell phone,
you know, that's a win. Interesting person, that's a win,
and also a little little podcast synergy. You ready for
this one. She's not the latest advisor over at Rhythm
with Meghan who is our episode three guest, Megan Lanham
from Rhythms, So now she's an advisor and I believe
investor as well. But let's not waste any more time.
(01:26):
Let's dive into it right here on the last episode
Behind the Vegue, Episode eight with the great Paris Smith.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
All Right, Evan, as you.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Heard, of course, both of us fired up for our
eighth and final guest to behind the Vegue, and I
have a funny feeling you saved.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
The best for last.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
This young lady has been all over as far as
when it comes to the sports gambling space, and we're
talking about some.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Of the top dogs out there.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
First of all, former CEO of Pinnacle and now just
added with Meghan Lanham from Rhythm as in a latest
advisor to Rhythm. It is an honor to have the
lovely Paris Smith join us here on behind the Vague. Paris,
great to have You can't thank you enough for a
couple of minutes.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
How we doing today, I'm doing absolutely fantastic. I was
very excited to be able to join you, guys. I
did not realize best for last, but I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, there's no line about that, I promise you on
that one. And Evan is nodding in his head in
agreement on this one.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
All right.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
So, as always, Paris love to get a little background
from you, and I think this question kind of like
it takes us behind the scenes and who you were
growing up, and of course the geography to it and
a little bit of the age at the same time.
So our general question to get this pod started as always,
tell us your favorite childhood sports memory. It could be
(02:47):
personally of you on the field, it could be a
team that you went to see.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Growing up, but your favorite childhood sports memory.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Is what playing basketball. I was a very very avid
basket ballplayer. Hence Meagan and I we have that connection
as well. But I was, like when I say a
basketball player, I played basketball seven hours a day, every
day every summer, and I played college basketball. And my
(03:14):
favorite memories are waking up at five in the morning
and going across the street in McCluskey, North Dakota, population
five hundred at that time and playing basketball then my
older brother's friends would come and they some of them
are college players, and they would let me play. When
I played with them, they were not easy on me.
(03:36):
Then I'd get on the court with a bunch of
girls and I would, you know, score forty points. I
averaged twenty seven points a game in high school because
they made it easy. You know, once you play with
those guys six seven, six ' four beating me up
all summer. Then I got on the court during the
season and it was it was fun, more fun.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And I also have to say, playing basketball in North
Dakota can't be easy, that's for sure.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Oh yeah, not.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Warm, No, definitely not. Well, that's excellent.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Great to here, And of course let me ask you
Joyce right from the jump, because Meghan was episode.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Three and again Evan just has.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
A great rolldex and he nailed it as far as
where we were going, as far as direction for all
of these podcasts throughout the course of the series. I'm
behind the big but Megan was so impressive. So how
did that relationship come together? And of course now you're
the latest advisor over there at Rhythm.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
Yeah, and I'm also an investor because I believe in
it so much. How did it get going? She was
looking for like in her perfect world, she would have
had a female at the cap table, and they, you know,
everybody said, oh, you have to talk to Megan. I
started talking to her. We have the same Midwest background,
basketball background, et cetera, the same values, and she was
(04:57):
explaining that part of the theory was Billy Walter's betting theory.
I'm one of his biggest fans. He he has a
documentary coming out. I'm going to be in it, and
I thought this is so perfect when I understood it.
It literally is from my DNA with Pinnacle because it's
all about modeling and you know, getting the best value.
(05:21):
So the here she creates an opportunity of data that
most people don't have access to. They wouldn't know how
to get access to. But you can take your personal
thoughts and beliefs in betting, apply them to that model
and get an output. You know, ideally and most often
that output creates a higher winning percentage. So to be
(05:43):
able you know, again the DNA coming from Pinnacle, to
be able to allow the better to make more educated
bets and be you know, you we don't want a
bunch of losers. We want people to win. That's the
long game, right you want to be a provider. Let
let them win, let them lose. Whatever it plays out,
obviously the edges for the book, but you know, you
(06:05):
want to see people succeed. So when I saw her product,
I loved it. I was begging to invest. She's like, oh, no,
I was going to ask you. I didn't know that
advising would be on the table, but obviously, you know,
I think with my network and expertise in the industry,
hopefully I can add a lot of value to her.
I did introduce her to Billie Walters also.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
By the way, Wow, so tell us about that your
your expertise and your experience in the industry. I mean
you were you were running Pinnacle for for quite a
while to you know, tell her how did you get
started doing that, and and and what was it like
for running that book for for as long as you did.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
What's interesting is I'm not a better cats out of
the bag, and that's one of the reasons why they
hired me. So they hired me because they said, we
need somebody who's super strong, who understands the industry like
the back of their hand, who has integrity at the
forefront and who doesn't have an ego because the reality
(07:09):
is Pinnacle has absolutely brilliant people and at that point
in time, you know, they were always the smartest person
in the room. But the reality is everybody has a
vertical of extreme knowledge and my job was to make
sure that people would focus on what they were really
brilliant with and get the most out of that. So,
(07:32):
you know, I feel like it was just a true
honor to be able to be working within Pinnacle and
the people again, they were the real the real stars
in it all, but I had the ability to understand
what they wanted to do and make sure it got
executed effectively and efficiently. And you know, we went from
(07:52):
old school betters and sorry, old school traders who were better,
and you know, then it goes into this phase of
everything is AI and everything is automated, and we were
able to shift ahead of the game with that, and
which is why Pinnacles ahead of the game today. Right
They still they have a secret sauce always and it's
(08:15):
it hasn't been replicated, not effectively.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Let me, could I follow up on Pinnacle because I
want to know from the the you know, the general
like sports gambler that has an interest in this space
that's come up, Like, I think I know a little
bit more than just the average Joe.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
But still, even with that being said, what.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I really do know about Pinnacle and you can fill
in the blanks here and I know you're you're currently
no longer with them, but just diving into that because
that is one of the biggest names that I've come across, Right,
is it specifically more and you just said talking about
the people behind the scenes, but is it really more
to do with the fact that they would take on
huge wagers? Is that the reason why they were able
(08:55):
to lift themselves above everybody else? Why is Pinnacle such
a big name in our industry over the years.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
It's really from from the onset. The foundation that was
created was made intentionally to be very resilient, and it
is you know, they were betters, so at some stage
of the game, Pinnacle was betting out before they got
the critical mass to be able to take it all. Right,
(09:22):
The reality is there were sports books that were offshore
many years ago that Pinnacle could have owned and just
taken over because they owned them with how much money
they should have been paid, and they worked everything out there,
you know, the most brilliant group of men, so humble,
so you know, they had a vision and through that
(09:43):
vision when they started building the critical mass by allowing
everybody to bet what they wanted, you know, the amounts
that they wanted and be able to create that line
that is difficult to replicate and with the low vig
of course, that's what through all the sharp betters. So
now that is the interesting you know, that's where it
(10:04):
gets interesting. You're getting the best information so you know
when when the big betters would win, we would win, right,
because that's what helped set the line and that's what
made us unique. So it's interesting that you know nowadays
nobody wants a winner because you know, they're not booking
their marketing. So that's that's really part of that secret sauce,
(10:28):
and that's how they got there, is from being able
to create a critical mass. You can't replicate that. So
it was built like that from the onset and then
throughout time we've always hired really brilliant people that could
get into the modeling side. So you know it's nice
when you're making taking a bet from somebody who's watching
(10:52):
a game. Now the majority of bets come in in
an API, right, because everybody has a model. Everybody you know,
they're trying to get the advantage. So that's where it's
difficult for a lot of sports books. But you know,
with all the you know, the the people in place
and the systems in place within Pinnacle, they are able
(11:13):
to protect themselves yet still keep that model alive.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Pinnacles based in the Caribbean, Curis, I.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
Believe, right, Yeah, there's offices everywhere for Pinnacle, but yeah,
based in Curso.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
And it's not Pinnacle doesn't take bets in the United
States and it hasn't for a while, but I mean
it did at one point and now.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
Yeah, pre WEEKA. So it was actually January eleventh, two
thousand and seven, at twelve oh five a m. Remember
it like it was yesterday. That's when we stopped taking bets.
And you know it was just logistically that was the
timing that we needed. But from the moment you get passed,
(12:04):
you know, the conversations about you know, like that's again
when the the DJ pivoted, you know, or made a decision,
made a distinction. We needed to pivot, and we did.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
But what I think often people underappreciate or don't appreciate
at all. Is that to this day the role that
offshore books can play in the United States, just by
informing prices and informing lines, they're still very relevant in
that regard and affecting you know, US consumers even who
(12:41):
aren't using them. Can you talk a little bit about.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
That, Yeah, I think, you know, going back, what's interesting is,
you know, there was the offshore space, and you know,
if you're playing Monday Morning quarterback, you can look back
and go, oh my god, I can't believe they were offshore.
But the reality is the initial rule was you cannot
(13:05):
take thats in America. That was the big rule. So
what did everybody do? They shifted offshore and then you know,
we came up with all the solutions with money Gram,
Western Union, et cetera, bank wires, and then it got
more efficient with credit cards, and every step along the
way that you know, it kept getting blocked, block blocked.
(13:27):
You know, I remember the days of having like one
hundred Western Union accounts and then Western Unions you know,
they obviously know what's happening, but then their compliance departments like, oh, yeah,
it's great making this much money, But we can't do
it this way, so we've always had to pivot with
whatever the rules are. But the reality is we created
an industry where throughout the United States, not just in
(13:50):
Las Vegas, people felt comfortable, they understood betting, they would
send money, they would you know, make their bets efficiently eventually,
just on online, not even with a phone call. When
they wanted their money, they make the request, they get
paid out naturally. You've got a couple of Roague guys
that you know, took advantage of this system that was
(14:11):
in place. But it is, you know, it is the
foundation of the Draft Kings and the fan duels of today.
And you know, I admire what they've done with it.
It's just the there's a gap where they are brilliant
marketing companies, you know, and they offer a lot of things,
(14:33):
but are they accommodating a sports better That's the real question.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, I was going to follow up with exactly what
you just said there. As far as I love that line,
they're not booking their marketing.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Is there one that you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Look to right now as far as in the UH
in the United States that you look at as you know,
you like their style, you like their way of going
about it. I know you just spoke a little bit
briefly there about it saying there's a disconnect, and I
think that that's glaring, and I think a lot of
people are starting to see that more and more. I'm
not trying to say it's easy to make those decisions
when it comes to taxes and holds and all that,
(15:10):
but there have been some recent decisions that have me
scratching my heads by some certain books out there domestically.
Is there a book that you look at right now
that you think maybe they are there a little bit
more for the book or for the better versus just marketing,
or do you just view them as such they are
just great at marketing right now?
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Well, I think Prime Sports is the prime example. You know,
they're really trying to do it right. They just have
to figure out how to get market share and let
people understand they're not going to beat Draftings and Vanduel.
But there's probably a good ten percent of the market
that actually won a real sports book. And until that happens,
(15:50):
you know, the offshore whoever's choosing to take that risk
and take that's offshore, they're going to thrive right through
that ten percent. And the reality is those people are
betting more. So you know, if you're betting with draft kings,
you're betting these small micro bets and you know, all
those types of things. But if you're betting on your team,
(16:13):
you know, like back in the days, some of the
offshore books averaged a five hundred dollars bet. You know,
these guys are probably I don't know what their average
bet is. It would be super interesting to find out,
but it's, uh, you know, I'm sure it's much smaller.
So there is a market that's not being targeted at
this point. And of course, having certain states not offer
(16:35):
sports betting, that's not helping anybody, right, But Prime is
the perfect example, and you know, Circa they have that
same concept in place. You know, I was always a
big fan of Matt Metcalf and what he did there.
I think his legacies living on and and I have
always I always give credit to fan Duel because they
(16:57):
were you know, I mean, even though Patty Power was
a European book, they at least had some fundamental booking concepts,
and they had had a US group right for US sports,
So I feel like they, you know, they took off
on the right foot early on, but you know they
don't have anything for a premium better.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Now. When when you were at the helmet Pinnacle, I mean,
what is the line making or what did rather the
line making process look like? That that differs from you know,
the the domestic books today that you said are sort
of more more about marketing than booking. I mean it
was the is the internal process materially different and that's
(17:43):
what's sort of creating this dichotomy.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Well, it's an interesting point you make because the reality is,
you know, people are starting now to acquire those modeling groups.
The difference is the modeling team, right, that's the real
special part of Pinnacle. The efforts that they put into
the AI, R and D modeling is phenomenal. So you
(18:12):
know in many cases, you know, I used to love
to prove this by putting up lines and putting up
bad lines when I'm having a meeting with somebody that's
us focused, and change it so I could show that
they're actually taking our line. Right. I don't know if
that's continuing today, but I surely proved it again and
(18:33):
again and again between Vegas books and the and the
the more online books. If you'd want to call them that,
so you know what's the difference. They're using our lines
to make the difference, and it's it's hard because you
don't want to. You can make a lot of money
(18:55):
by following that Pinnacle line. You can make a ton
of money with it. But that's where you know you're
not going to maximize your profit because only they have
that capability to respond when different types of bets come in.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
What are your thoughts of anyone like the the exchange
model sports books that you know that we're seeing in
the United States, A couple of them that you know
succeed meeting with some success, others less so. But do
you think that's a model that that could work for
you know, Sharper Betters.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Well, definitely it could be an option for Sharper Betters.
I feel like I'm being set up for this question
because I'm always up on State talking about how I
don't believe in exchanges. I can't stand exchanges. People in
the industry have exchanges, and the industry has shifted, so
I will have to start retracting my comment. And you know,
(19:57):
for like, imagine if a book integrate with an exchange
and they every time there was a bet, they would
have canceled, they would put it into the exchange because
at some point in time, like at the last nickel G's.
Don't ask me exactly what that all stands for, but
they call it nickel G's and it's for the regulators
(20:18):
of states that have gaming. They were astounded, many of
the people that were attended were astounded that players are
kicked out. Yeah, the right, and at some stage you
can't pick and choose who comes through your door when
you are licensed to provide a service.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Yeah, I mean, it's a it's an interesting part. Obviously,
it's one that's been subject to a tremendous amount of
debate and it's continuing to be you know, the Massachusetts
regulators are really taking the helm on that. But it's
interesting right when you when you compare sports betting in
that sense to yeah, like all the just consumer facing brands, right,
(21:03):
I mean, you can't you can't necessarily just pick and
choose who you want your consumers to be. To a point.
At the same time, there there are others who can say,
you know, I'm sorry, you're not welcome here. You know,
you were rude to the weight staff. You're not You're
not welcome back at this rest.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
You're winning at something that should be providing. That seems
a little peculiar, but it happens, I mean clearly.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
Yeah, no, no question.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You said you were at bet Bash and uh, I
think that's a big theme for the eight guests that
we've had. I would say probably six out of the eight,
I think we're somewhat involved. Or of course, everybody knows
who Spanky is and you were there in Vegas, Paris.
As far as that seems to be the big topic,
right and and I know Spanky has now started up
(21:51):
his thing where the voice is for the sports gambler.
Excuse me, Yeah, as far as that is concerned, you
think he has some momentum there. Do you think that
regulators will start to pay attention to this more and
more and will actually start to care about the sports
Gambler or is this more of just making a scene
trying as best as possible to eventually get the books
(22:13):
to do what's right.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
But don't know if they will see the light on
that one.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
I think that it has to get traction, you know,
And what's so you know, I'm I'm a huge fan
of the conferences. I feel like anybody who's in the industry.
If you don't go to the conferences, you don't even
understand the industry. So I'm a massive supporter of all
of them. SVC that's you know, one at the top,
(22:37):
I Gaming next. They keep changing the brand, but egr,
those are all amazing conferences. Of course you two me,
but BET BASH you basically have your focus groups sitting
in front of you. So if you really did want
to know then what people need and want and why
and how, you just have to go there as an
(22:58):
operator and ask. But they don't want to know. They don't,
you know, clearly, or they would be there. There are
some operators there obviously, but not the ones that should be.
So I feel like that conference, you know, it almost
needs like another angle to get that other interested party
(23:18):
or that party that should be interested there to attend.
But it was it's such a great you know, I
was always you know, I love my team. I loved
the Pinnacle team and the players. I'm a people person,
so I mean I literally when I walked in, I
saw people that I took bets from twenty nine years ago.
(23:42):
That's why I said I felt like I came home
like it was insane all the people that helped me
be who I am today, to the person who introduced
me to my first employer, to you know, the person
that gave me the opportunity within Pinnacle, Like they're all there.
Billy Walters, first person I made, took a phone call
from and on my first day of work July seventh
(24:05):
to nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
How about that? How about that?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I believe he was inducted into the vsen Or the
Circle Hall of Fame out there at this year.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
Yeah, that Hall of Fame is that? That's some that's special.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Now you're what's your You're on the board of the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I am that's awesome. Roxy gave me a pen last
time I was out there.
Speaker 6 (24:30):
Gosh, he's golden. Like these guys are. You feel like
you're living in a moment. You know. I was supposed
to give Frank Rosenthal his Hall of Fame award to
his daughter. I used to know him very well, just
because he consulted. When he got older. My former boss
(24:50):
was like, you know, let me just help him out,
like he's not enough. My job was to just talk
to him. It was awesome, awesome.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Paris me follow up with one more on Pinnacle because
of course, you know, when we get an opportunity, I
think it's always fun to go into this direction here.
But you know, you dealt with some big names and
of course people that probably put up some big bucks.
Give us one, Give us one, like one game that
you remember, Man, I just took that bet that was
(25:20):
that was some wild action there.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Could you give us one story from your time at Pinnacle.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
Well a Pinnacle. I never took a bet never, No,
I didn't have to. I was running the company. But
there were you know, people that would bet, uh, you know,
a million, like Internet people obviously a million dollars a
bet for every World Cup game once it got to
the quarters.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Now we're talking. I love some knockout soccer, so I
can I could support that.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I don't know about the million. I don't know if
my wife would cosin that, but.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Yeah, no, but you know, I mean there's just there's
the global that's another really interesting component. You know, the US,
that's where I'm from, Like, I'm so patriotic, I'm so American,
but it's not the entire world. And when I had
(26:16):
to pull out of the US market in twenty two
thousand and seven, on that day. One of the reasons
they had originally hired me is because I had a
lot of knowledge of Asia and the rest of world,
and we built it back up to as big as
it was in the US market globally without the US market.
(26:39):
So that's kind of my you know, one thing I'm
very proud of with in Pinnacle. So you know, the
fact is there's a world of business out there obviously.
You know, that's where you can see how solid and
phenomenal the trading team is because they went from being
the best in the world within the US sports to
(27:00):
have to pivot to European football.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Yeah, and you know, I think to that exact point
you were you were mentioning, like the conference circuit earlier.
For me, that's what really opened my eyes to the
international aspect of this industry. I mean here here in
the US, especially with sports betting outside of Vegas, we're
in such a young period and this is such a
well developed industry for decades now in so many more
(27:28):
so many other countries. So you know, I think we
oftentimes lose sight of that here that what what might be, uh,
you know, something that happened seven or eight years ago
here is is just a blink of an eye in
terms of how Europe might look at it.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
So so tell So now you've you've been You've left
Pinnacle called like eighteen months or so ago.
Speaker 7 (27:52):
What what have you been up to other than hanging
out with me?
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Agan?
Speaker 7 (27:55):
Are you are?
Speaker 5 (27:56):
You're You're advising other companies sort of more on the
on the startup, younger side of the in terms of
their stage.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
I am. I'm doing a lot of angel investing. I'm
slowing down now, but I'm also soon to be released
little teaser. I have two industry friends that have I
think combined we figured seventy years of gaming experience. That's
kind of ridiculous, but it's true, and and our networks
(28:26):
are super strong. I just want to help, you know,
I want to get back. I want to use what
I've learned in some ways. I want to monetize it.
You know. My big theory is I want to make more,
to do more, and you know, help people more. I've
just been so so very lucky throughout my career. But yeah,
so we're forming a company that will be there to
(28:49):
really guide, support and help navigate for you know, all
types of people. But really some of the underserved, right
I you know, Megan, she's a goat her she did it.
She you know, she rose to the top if you will.
But there's a lot of people that have great ideas,
they just don't even know where to start. So we
(29:09):
want to help guide them through that, whether it be
females or you know, any kind of marginalized, but anybody.
You know, sometimes there's Joe Blow, he's just not being heard.
He needs our help as well. So that's that's a
new project. It's going to be released. I think next
week we're going to release that. So I'll give you
(29:32):
so that the name so when you see it, you know,
is Defy the Odds is the name of it. Yeah.
And then I'm also helping with a lot of coaching.
And you know, again I love people. So what I'm
seeing and hearing because I mentor a lot of people,
Like there's a lot of toxicity in companies and it's
(29:54):
just a shame because that is going to hinder growth
down the road. So I'm working with a company called
the Ven Group and they're gonna they do some work
within the industry, but they're kind of you know, talk
about that high performance. They have a lot of professional
athletes and professionals in general that work with them, and
it talks about the flow and how do you get
(30:16):
your team in that flow. Innovation is a buzzword, but
if you can get your team at the highest performance,
that's probably what's going to beat your competitors more so
than somebody coming up with something, you know, the next
great idea, Like you know, I think those those those
are a bit tougher to come by. But putting together
(30:37):
the strongest team is something I think is really important.
So I'm working on that and yeah, just enjoying my life.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Yeah, I love it. I think I couldn't agree more
that there are so many great ideas out there and
people just sort of need help get in one foot,
even just partially in the door, and then they can
you know, take it from there. But the industry, being
as small as it is, is sort of a double
(31:05):
edged sword where there aren't all that many people that
can really help you get your foot in the door.
And you know, you're obviously one of them, and one
of the major ones. I know. One of the things
you're doing you talked about SBC next month in Portugal,
is you're judging the first pitch Competition, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's led by Jesse Learmont, who I think
has done more for startups than anybody. I mean, he's
so I used to work well he worked for me,
but I would say we work together and he was phenomenal.
So he is going to be leading the pitch competition.
(31:47):
And you know what I love. I just love looking
at these new ideas because there's a lot of things.
Being an operator, I know, you know, in my gut,
I know what's going to work, what's not gonna work.
Every once in a while I get pleasant surprised, but
rarely so. It's it's super exciting some great new ideas
coming out and you know, looking forward to letting them
(32:11):
all be showcased. But then there's a lot of people.
You know, I went through over thirty pitch decks and
it was hard, Like there's a lot of good stuff
out there right now, right but you just have to
see what makes the most sense, what's what can be integrated,
what's going to have a regulatory challenge? You know, what
(32:32):
makes sense. You know, a lot of times people build
what they like, not what's required or what's a problem
to be solved. So, yeah, that's a lot of fun.
I love it. When I was a Pinnacle, if it
wasn't for Pinnacle, I didn't look at it.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
Well. I I love what they're doing with this competition
and getting startups to to to submit these decks and
be evaluated by a panel of just incredibly experienced judges.
I actually donated five thousand dollars worth of my firm's
legal services to to whoever wins this to help them,
(33:10):
you know, get where depending on what stage they're at,
and you know, get them, get them a little bit
more down the door, down the road, I should say,
and uh, and help them out. So I think Paris,
you and I are aligned in what we're looking for there,
and Sean, maybe we'll get them on whoever it is.
If Paris picks us a good one, we'll get them
on here.
Speaker 8 (33:28):
And yeah, but you know that's to that point this community,
like I am obsessed with sports betting, gaming and the community,
Like what phenomenal people like you know, for you to
do that, that just says it all.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Another company, I don't know if you've heard of a
Zero Labs with Quentin Singletary, like that is phenomenal. That
will help, you know what what everybody's trying to do
that has passion for this industry. They're trying to help
create the best future possible by partaking. So I'll be
an sme in that group. But you know, the way
(34:08):
in which they help these people that have an idea
really put some structure behind that idea, the company, the
whole concept, the pitch deck, and then that helps propel
them to the next level. You know, it's the whole
ecosystem that's been created. And then you have all the
different like Angel Investors with Bernie and Benji Turniak and
(34:33):
you know Chris and there Lloyd and there's so many
there's so many people that they're running a business, but
they're also doing good for the industry. And I love that.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
I think this is one of those classic examples of
you know, when you when you make the pie bigger,
we all kind of win, or the rising tideless all shadow.
You can pick your metaphoria, but no question helping helping
these companies sort of with good thought, through legitimate ideas
(35:09):
navigate what is such an incredibly complicated path to navigate.
You know, Megan talked about that a little bit and
and We've had others talk about it from sort of
the funding side, but the regulatory side. I mean it's
it's expensive and it's tough, and it's tricky, and you
need people who have gone through this before the just
(35:32):
hold your hand a little bit and so you know,
I think it's wonderful that you're out there doing just that.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Absolutely no, it comes across Paris.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And look, we're thankful for the thirty five minutes you
gave us here, but I want to point out, like
you said, just as far as with our seven episodes
that we've already done, just the people that like Alex Kane,
who's got sport trade right now, who is a genius
and he just needs that little He needed that little
help and it seems like that's slowly building for him.
(36:02):
And then obviously to talk to these people like Davis Catlin,
who is a gentleman that actually can get you to
capital if you have a right idea. So look to
be honest with your Paris. We started this and I
know we've said it a few episodes. We started this
podcast because when you think of sports gamling for the
general consumer out there, you think of like the big
drive Kings FanDuel and you know, ESPN bet whatever it
(36:24):
may be right now. But of course there's so many
other layers and so much more money involved, and so
much other things going on, and of course at the
top of a great people like yourself, So keep firing.
We're pulling for you. I don't I don't think you
need our help. You continue to lift the UH to
raise the stakes, that's for sure. But again, can't thank
(36:45):
you enough for a couple of minutes before you get
out of here. Would love for you to plug anything
you did say you had a company coming up here,
But again, plug anything before you get out of here
on this latest episode Behind the Bigs, Please.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
I forgot my own company. Life winning, somebody, how are
you doing. I'm like, I'm winning, Like life is great.
I'm like, And then of course you can't forget you
know the guy winning, you know, I just think he's.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
So.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
But I thought life winning that's a perfect name.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
I'm lucky girl, definitely winning. What what are you looking
at out your window right now? Because we're looking at
the inside of a podcast studio in suburban Pennsylvania.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
A little bit of ocean. I'm not gonna lie living,
living the dreaming cursyle. So yeah, but but yeah, my
life winning is really you know, I have one co founder,
the most brilliant person I've ever met in my life.
My daughter and I raised her, of course, and we're
(37:48):
doing a lot of consulting advising, and that's what all
my angel investing falls under. So she's helping me a
lot with that. It's a lot of fun. I spent
most of my life traveling away from her. Now I
get to take her and she's much more organized and
pleasant than I am. So it's so far it's been
a match made in heaven.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Is a basketball player.
Speaker 6 (38:10):
She was volleyball and football. She is an athlete to
the core.
Speaker 7 (38:16):
Love it, Paris, Thank you so much. This is so great.
Speaker 6 (38:20):
Yeah, thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I really enjoyed it all right, as we always do
a little podcast a recap right here on behind the
veg Evan. I knew that was going to be great
right from the jump, because she just wanted to communicate,
knows what she's talking about.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
A great people.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Person, which I think is kind of you know, you
don't really think that that's needed in this area, but.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
It is, because at the end of the day, it's
about the people in this business.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Whether you're talking about betters, we were talking about people
that set the line, the investors, it's it's it's always
about the people.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
Yeah, I think there's a there's a certain personality that
you see sort of recurring when you go to some
of these well said conferences. Said there are people that
like to talk, like to hang out, maybe have a
drink or two, and maybe yeah, it's the conference is
a good time. I gotta tell you, she she kind
of hit the nail on the head. I mean, they're
they're really interesting, but certainly, you know, for anyone that's
(39:16):
really interested in learning more about this. You know, Portugal
is a little bit far away, but G two E
is in in Vegas in October. SBC usually does an
event in like New York, New Jersey area in the spring.
So I'd highly recommend either of those two for for
anyone that's looking at sort of just roam around and
(39:37):
spend a day or two talking to all the characters
in this world.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah, and and we say that with affection.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
And she is one of those people that the characters
in this in this space and just tremendous from everything
that she brings to the table.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
As far as leadership is concerned.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I could go on and on, but just from some
notes from the episode there, it really struck a cord
with me that it's not booking, it's marketing, and it
you know, look, I think that we are moving in
a direction now that certain things are getting noticed. So
maybe a little bit more as far as booking versus marketing.
(40:14):
But again, I think it's tough for us to sit
here and know what's happening on the other side of
that conversation as well. It can't be easy to be
running DraftKings, running FanDuel, running ESPN bet at this point
in time.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
I think what oftentimes gets overlooked is that there there
can be multiple things for different folks, right, and what
one person might want is to bet on some goofy
you know, eight game parlay and take a shot and right,
(40:50):
and they're betting five dollars and they don't care. And
there's other people who for whom this is like a
you know, a career, or or that there are quasi
professionals and what they're doing it doesn't necessarily mean that
what the other one's doing there's no place for it
in the market. And you know, when you look at
any other industry, there are different there's there's differences. And
(41:14):
I mean, look at automobiles. You have you might have
what you call like higher end and lower end, but
you also have you know, sports cars and luxury cars
and you know SUVs that right, and and and it's
like one's not necessarily better than the other, they're just different.
And and I think that sometimes we lose sight of that,
that there's there's there's there can be space for everyone
(41:37):
if we just sort of accept what they are and
what they're not. But I thought her point was incredibly
well taken, that you know, the for for sort of
true sports betters out there, the options are not not
huge right now.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
No, and and that's why and brought this up there
in the episode bet Bash. Hey, I think we might
need to hit up spanking, But like, could Gambler broadcast live?
Can we just set up shop for three straight days
out there with you guys and be the radio stations
next year?
Speaker 5 (42:08):
I think it's in the falls or in the right.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, and that's a primetime spot to be at Circa
stadium swim with the hundred and five degree heat, that's
where you want to be there.
Speaker 5 (42:20):
You go and it's a dead time for sports radio
in August. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
But now look it does come up and like we said,
just in credit and shout out to you man, you're
speaking at all.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
These uh the these conferences as well.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
So it's it's it's really a great place to be
if you do want to make it in in this area,
if you're trying to take another step in in this
sports gambling space.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
Absolutely this is what you gotta do. You got to
be boots on the ground. Another great place to be
sewn is Currousel. We were just there over the Winner,
and I gotta tell you cruise or did you go
for We were there for like five nights.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
Look at you kidless?
Speaker 5 (43:01):
Uh no, with with family and the grandparents. It was
a family getaway for about five nights. If I'm not
gonna say the the Western Hemisphere's oldest synagogue is in Cuasel.
Speaker 7 (43:17):
Not necessarily what you would have guessed.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I was gonna pretend I knew what you were going with.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
But now there's nowhere near on that one could pull
by you on that, Evan Davis. Finally, I just want
to finish up by saying this, like that's the type
of person that we need to hear more from. Uh
and Paris was so sharp and I could just right
from the jump like knew that she was going to
be a tremendous listen. But if you really do care
(43:42):
about this space, those are the type of people that
we need to elevate and and put a little bit
more emphasis as far as to their words, you know,
and to to really sink our teeth into what they're saying.
So the knowledge and the wisdom was just jumping off
the microphone there.
Speaker 5 (43:57):
I agree with you, and I'll take it one step further,
which is to say, I think if you look back
at sort of the eight guests that we had and
what where they came from, both where they come from today,
who they worked for or what they founded or building,
but also what their backgrounds are and what they bring
to the table. I mean we've had everyone from I
(44:18):
mean we had a you know math PhDs right to
you know Alan who came out he was a college
football player with this marketing idea and just but everyone's
kind of nailing it, and they're they're coming at it
from such different ends. I think if you want to
understand this industry, you've got to really synthesize all of
(44:43):
these different viewpoints, because each of us only brings one
to the table our own, and unless we're out there
listening to people who don't necessarily have the exact same
experience as us and the exact same background as us.
You know, me going home and talking to my buddy
about sports betting is like, well, he and I see
this the exact same way, right, But when you hear
(45:04):
these people coming at it with different perspectives, and one's
building a company and one exited a company, and one's
investing in companies, and.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
To me, I think that's really the only way to
truly understand this world.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
So I'm really glad that we were able to put
together what we did and really bring together those different viewpoints.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Proud of the eight episodes and fantastic work on lining
up every one of these guests. Evan, I had no
part of it, but this was just a tremendous from
A to Z one through eight.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Let me just say like that, John Ewing once again.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Episode one, Alex Kane, who we plugged from Sports Trade,
Sports Trade, excuse me, Megan from Rhythm download it now,
as Paris just said she's involved with it and.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
It is the real deal. You had Brian Wyman, who's
doing big things.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You had Davis Catlin of who she just mentioned as
well Alan Stone, which I learned a lot from from
the standpoint of the affiliate, which is a slash influence
are almost at the same time, but your strategic the
way going about a numbers. I thought that was a
great lesson Brian Bennett, A great listen Brian Bennett last
week was tremendous and I think we just really hit
(46:11):
a home run, a grand slam with Paris Smith. Evan,
please plug what you got going on. Man, Come on,
I don't think we shine the light enough on you
with this.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
I don't need any I'm just commuting my kid to
soccer practice. And uh that's uh no, I've I mean, look,
I you know, I've I've found joined uh this law
firm Royer Cooper Cohen Brownfeld to to launch a sports
and gaming practice and we're a couple of months in
and it's just been great. Uh sort of to Paris's point,
(46:45):
When you can help people, you know, and and make
that sort of your.
Speaker 7 (46:49):
Your job, Uh, that's a really cool thing.
Speaker 5 (46:52):
And I've been really fortunate to do that, get getting
a lot of calls people that are looking to start companies,
figure out the gaming regulatory process, figure out you know,
the legal ropes around fundraising, I mean all of that stuff.
So so I've been really fortunate to have been in
this industry for about a decade or so, and you know,
(47:15):
keep keep seeing where it goes.
Speaker 7 (47:16):
Get It'll take me to Portugal in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 5 (47:18):
I'm excited for that. And uh no, but but I
think I really share Paris's view on it's the people
that you meet within this industry that make it fun
and interesting, because there aren't too many people that can
say both of those things about their jobs. And and
I'm really fortunate to be able.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
To well, said Evan Davis.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
This has been a great ride and hopefully we'll be
doing it again in the future because I thought we
we did something really good here. So and there's a
lot more voices that would love to get a microphone
in front of and of course right here, I'm behind the.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
Big We've had eight great episodes.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Be sure to press play on all of them at
foxphl Gambler dot com.
Speaker 4 (47:59):
Once again at foxph Gambler dot com
You are listening to Behind the Vague, a podcast mini
series that takes you beyond the bets and strategies and
more into the business of the sports betting industry. Now
Here are your hosts, Sean Brace and Evan Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
That's why you heard the man Episode eight Behind the
veg Let's go, and I know we saved the best
for last, but all due respect to our seven great
guests on previous episodes at foxpho gilber dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Evan, I am excited to talk to the one and
only Paris Smith. We're talking Pinnacle CEO for close to
two decades.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
I believe this is going to be amazing.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
Yeah, I can't wait. I mean, Paris is just a
legend in this industry and has been for quite some time.
So you know, when I asked her if she would
be willing to do this, I was just pumped. When
She's like, yeah, absolutely, what Let's find the time that works.
So can't wait to talk to her about you know,
everything that she did she was at Pinnacle and just
(01:01):
as much what she's been doing on the eighteen months
or so since she left.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Hey, anybody that's got Billy Walters on the cell phone,
you know, that's a win. Interesting person, that's a win,
and also a little little podcast synergy. You ready for
this one. She's not the latest advisor over at Rhythm
with Meghan who is our episode three guest, Megan Lanham
from Rhythms, So now she's an advisor and I believe
investor as well. But let's not waste any more time.
(01:26):
Let's dive into it right here on the last episode
Behind the Vegue, Episode eight with the great Paris Smith.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
All Right, Evan, as you.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Heard, of course, both of us fired up for our
eighth and final guest to behind the Vegue, and I
have a funny feeling you saved.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
The best for last.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
This young lady has been all over as far as
when it comes to the sports gambling space, and we're
talking about some.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Of the top dogs out there.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
First of all, former CEO of Pinnacle and now just
added with Meghan Lanham from Rhythm as in a latest
advisor to Rhythm. It is an honor to have the
lovely Paris Smith join us here on behind the Vague. Paris,
great to have You can't thank you enough for a
couple of minutes.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
How we doing today, I'm doing absolutely fantastic. I was
very excited to be able to join you, guys. I
did not realize best for last, but I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, there's no line about that, I promise you on
that one. And Evan is nodding in his head in
agreement on this one.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
All right.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
So, as always, Paris love to get a little background
from you, and I think this question kind of like
it takes us behind the scenes and who you were
growing up, and of course the geography to it and
a little bit of the age at the same time.
So our general question to get this pod started as always,
tell us your favorite childhood sports memory. It could be
(02:47):
personally of you on the field, it could be a
team that you went to see.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Growing up, but your favorite childhood sports memory.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Is what playing basketball. I was a very very avid
basket ballplayer. Hence Meagan and I we have that connection
as well. But I was, like when I say a
basketball player, I played basketball seven hours a day, every
day every summer, and I played college basketball. And my
(03:14):
favorite memories are waking up at five in the morning
and going across the street in McCluskey, North Dakota, population
five hundred at that time and playing basketball then my
older brother's friends would come and they some of them
are college players, and they would let me play. When
I played with them, they were not easy on me.
(03:36):
Then I'd get on the court with a bunch of
girls and I would, you know, score forty points. I
averaged twenty seven points a game in high school because
they made it easy. You know, once you play with
those guys six seven, six ' four beating me up
all summer. Then I got on the court during the
season and it was it was fun, more fun.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And I also have to say, playing basketball in North
Dakota can't be easy, that's for sure.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Oh yeah, not.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Warm, No, definitely not. Well, that's excellent.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Great to here, And of course let me ask you
Joyce right from the jump, because Meghan was episode.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Three and again Evan just has.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
A great rolldex and he nailed it as far as
where we were going, as far as direction for all
of these podcasts throughout the course of the series. I'm
behind the big but Megan was so impressive. So how
did that relationship come together? And of course now you're
the latest advisor over there at Rhythm.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
Yeah, and I'm also an investor because I believe in
it so much. How did it get going? She was
looking for like in her perfect world, she would have
had a female at the cap table, and they, you know,
everybody said, oh, you have to talk to Megan. I
started talking to her. We have the same Midwest background,
basketball background, et cetera, the same values, and she was
(04:57):
explaining that part of the theory was Billy Walter's betting theory.
I'm one of his biggest fans. He he has a
documentary coming out. I'm going to be in it, and
I thought this is so perfect when I understood it.
It literally is from my DNA with Pinnacle because it's
all about modeling and you know, getting the best value.
(05:21):
So the here she creates an opportunity of data that
most people don't have access to. They wouldn't know how
to get access to. But you can take your personal
thoughts and beliefs in betting, apply them to that model
and get an output. You know, ideally and most often
that output creates a higher winning percentage. So to be
(05:43):
able you know, again the DNA coming from Pinnacle, to
be able to allow the better to make more educated
bets and be you know, you we don't want a
bunch of losers. We want people to win. That's the
long game, right you want to be a provider. Let
let them win, let them lose. Whatever it plays out,
obviously the edges for the book, but you know, you
(06:05):
want to see people succeed. So when I saw her product,
I loved it. I was begging to invest. She's like, oh, no,
I was going to ask you. I didn't know that
advising would be on the table, but obviously, you know,
I think with my network and expertise in the industry,
hopefully I can add a lot of value to her.
I did introduce her to Billie Walters also.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
By the way, Wow, so tell us about that your
your expertise and your experience in the industry. I mean
you were you were running Pinnacle for for quite a
while to you know, tell her how did you get
started doing that, and and and what was it like
for running that book for for as long as you did.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
What's interesting is I'm not a better cats out of
the bag, and that's one of the reasons why they
hired me. So they hired me because they said, we
need somebody who's super strong, who understands the industry like
the back of their hand, who has integrity at the
forefront and who doesn't have an ego because the reality
(07:09):
is Pinnacle has absolutely brilliant people and at that point
in time, you know, they were always the smartest person
in the room. But the reality is everybody has a
vertical of extreme knowledge and my job was to make
sure that people would focus on what they were really
brilliant with and get the most out of that. So,
(07:32):
you know, I feel like it was just a true
honor to be able to be working within Pinnacle and
the people again, they were the real the real stars
in it all, but I had the ability to understand
what they wanted to do and make sure it got
executed effectively and efficiently. And you know, we went from
(07:52):
old school betters and sorry, old school traders who were better,
and you know, then it goes into this phase of
everything is AI and everything is automated, and we were
able to shift ahead of the game with that, and
which is why Pinnacles ahead of the game today. Right
They still they have a secret sauce always and it's
(08:15):
it hasn't been replicated, not effectively.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Let me, could I follow up on Pinnacle because I
want to know from the the you know, the general
like sports gambler that has an interest in this space
that's come up, Like, I think I know a little
bit more than just the average Joe.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
But still, even with that being said, what.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I really do know about Pinnacle and you can fill
in the blanks here and I know you're you're currently
no longer with them, but just diving into that because
that is one of the biggest names that I've come across, Right,
is it specifically more and you just said talking about
the people behind the scenes, but is it really more
to do with the fact that they would take on
huge wagers? Is that the reason why they were able
(08:55):
to lift themselves above everybody else? Why is Pinnacle such
a big name in our industry over the years.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
It's really from from the onset. The foundation that was
created was made intentionally to be very resilient, and it
is you know, they were betters, so at some stage
of the game, Pinnacle was betting out before they got
the critical mass to be able to take it all. Right,
(09:22):
The reality is there were sports books that were offshore
many years ago that Pinnacle could have owned and just
taken over because they owned them with how much money
they should have been paid, and they worked everything out there,
you know, the most brilliant group of men, so humble,
so you know, they had a vision and through that
(09:43):
vision when they started building the critical mass by allowing
everybody to bet what they wanted, you know, the amounts
that they wanted and be able to create that line
that is difficult to replicate and with the low vig
of course, that's what through all the sharp betters. So
now that is the interesting you know, that's where it
(10:04):
gets interesting. You're getting the best information so you know
when when the big betters would win, we would win, right,
because that's what helped set the line and that's what
made us unique. So it's interesting that you know nowadays
nobody wants a winner because you know, they're not booking
their marketing. So that's that's really part of that secret sauce,
(10:28):
and that's how they got there, is from being able
to create a critical mass. You can't replicate that. So
it was built like that from the onset and then
throughout time we've always hired really brilliant people that could
get into the modeling side. So you know it's nice
when you're making taking a bet from somebody who's watching
(10:52):
a game. Now the majority of bets come in in
an API, right, because everybody has a model. Everybody you know,
they're trying to get the advantage. So that's where it's
difficult for a lot of sports books. But you know,
with all the you know, the the people in place
and the systems in place within Pinnacle, they are able
(11:13):
to protect themselves yet still keep that model alive.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Pinnacles based in the Caribbean, Curis, I.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
Believe, right, Yeah, there's offices everywhere for Pinnacle, but yeah,
based in Curso.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
And it's not Pinnacle doesn't take bets in the United
States and it hasn't for a while, but I mean
it did at one point and now.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
Yeah, pre WEEKA. So it was actually January eleventh, two
thousand and seven, at twelve oh five a m. Remember
it like it was yesterday. That's when we stopped taking bets.
And you know it was just logistically that was the
timing that we needed. But from the moment you get passed,
(12:04):
you know, the conversations about you know, like that's again
when the the DJ pivoted, you know, or made a decision,
made a distinction. We needed to pivot, and we did.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
But what I think often people underappreciate or don't appreciate
at all. Is that to this day the role that
offshore books can play in the United States, just by
informing prices and informing lines, they're still very relevant in
that regard and affecting you know, US consumers even who
(12:41):
aren't using them. Can you talk a little bit about.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
That, Yeah, I think, you know, going back, what's interesting is,
you know, there was the offshore space, and you know,
if you're playing Monday Morning quarterback, you can look back
and go, oh my god, I can't believe they were offshore.
But the reality is the initial rule was you cannot
(13:05):
take thats in America. That was the big rule. So
what did everybody do? They shifted offshore and then you know,
we came up with all the solutions with money Gram,
Western Union, et cetera, bank wires, and then it got
more efficient with credit cards, and every step along the
way that you know, it kept getting blocked, block blocked.
(13:27):
You know, I remember the days of having like one
hundred Western Union accounts and then Western Unions you know,
they obviously know what's happening, but then their compliance departments like, oh, yeah,
it's great making this much money, But we can't do
it this way, so we've always had to pivot with
whatever the rules are. But the reality is we created
an industry where throughout the United States, not just in
(13:50):
Las Vegas, people felt comfortable, they understood betting, they would
send money, they would you know, make their bets efficiently eventually,
just on online, not even with a phone call. When
they wanted their money, they make the request, they get
paid out naturally. You've got a couple of Roague guys
that you know, took advantage of this system that was
(14:11):
in place. But it is, you know, it is the
foundation of the Draft Kings and the fan duels of today.
And you know, I admire what they've done with it.
It's just the there's a gap where they are brilliant
marketing companies, you know, and they offer a lot of things,
(14:33):
but are they accommodating a sports better That's the real question.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, I was going to follow up with exactly what
you just said there. As far as I love that line,
they're not booking their marketing.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Is there one that you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Look to right now as far as in the UH
in the United States that you look at as you know,
you like their style, you like their way of going
about it. I know you just spoke a little bit
briefly there about it saying there's a disconnect, and I
think that that's glaring, and I think a lot of
people are starting to see that more and more. I'm
not trying to say it's easy to make those decisions
when it comes to taxes and holds and all that,
(15:10):
but there have been some recent decisions that have me
scratching my heads by some certain books out there domestically.
Is there a book that you look at right now
that you think maybe they are there a little bit
more for the book or for the better versus just marketing,
or do you just view them as such they are
just great at marketing right now?
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Well, I think Prime Sports is the prime example. You know,
they're really trying to do it right. They just have
to figure out how to get market share and let
people understand they're not going to beat Draftings and Vanduel.
But there's probably a good ten percent of the market
that actually won a real sports book. And until that happens,
(15:50):
you know, the offshore whoever's choosing to take that risk
and take that's offshore, they're going to thrive right through
that ten percent. And the reality is those people are
betting more. So you know, if you're betting with draft kings,
you're betting these small micro bets and you know, all
those types of things. But if you're betting on your team,
(16:13):
you know, like back in the days, some of the
offshore books averaged a five hundred dollars bet. You know,
these guys are probably I don't know what their average
bet is. It would be super interesting to find out,
but it's, uh, you know, I'm sure it's much smaller.
So there is a market that's not being targeted at
this point. And of course, having certain states not offer
(16:35):
sports betting, that's not helping anybody, right, But Prime is
the perfect example, and you know, Circa they have that
same concept in place. You know, I was always a
big fan of Matt Metcalf and what he did there.
I think his legacies living on and and I have
always I always give credit to fan Duel because they
(16:57):
were you know, I mean, even though Patty Power was
a European book, they at least had some fundamental booking concepts,
and they had had a US group right for US sports,
So I feel like they, you know, they took off
on the right foot early on, but you know they
don't have anything for a premium better.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Now. When when you were at the helmet Pinnacle, I mean,
what is the line making or what did rather the
line making process look like? That that differs from you know,
the the domestic books today that you said are sort
of more more about marketing than booking. I mean it
was the is the internal process materially different and that's
(17:43):
what's sort of creating this dichotomy.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Well, it's an interesting point you make because the reality is,
you know, people are starting now to acquire those modeling groups.
The difference is the modeling team, right, that's the real
special part of Pinnacle. The efforts that they put into
the AI, R and D modeling is phenomenal. So you
(18:12):
know in many cases, you know, I used to love
to prove this by putting up lines and putting up
bad lines when I'm having a meeting with somebody that's
us focused, and change it so I could show that
they're actually taking our line. Right. I don't know if
that's continuing today, but I surely proved it again and
(18:33):
again and again between Vegas books and the and the
the more online books. If you'd want to call them that,
so you know what's the difference. They're using our lines
to make the difference, and it's it's hard because you
don't want to. You can make a lot of money
(18:55):
by following that Pinnacle line. You can make a ton
of money with it. But that's where you know you're
not going to maximize your profit because only they have
that capability to respond when different types of bets come in.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
What are your thoughts of anyone like the the exchange
model sports books that you know that we're seeing in
the United States, A couple of them that you know
succeed meeting with some success, others less so. But do
you think that's a model that that could work for
you know, Sharper Betters.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Well, definitely it could be an option for Sharper Betters.
I feel like I'm being set up for this question
because I'm always up on State talking about how I
don't believe in exchanges. I can't stand exchanges. People in
the industry have exchanges, and the industry has shifted, so
I will have to start retracting my comment. And you know,
(19:57):
for like, imagine if a book integrate with an exchange
and they every time there was a bet, they would
have canceled, they would put it into the exchange because
at some point in time, like at the last nickel G's.
Don't ask me exactly what that all stands for, but
they call it nickel G's and it's for the regulators
(20:18):
of states that have gaming. They were astounded, many of
the people that were attended were astounded that players are
kicked out. Yeah, the right, and at some stage you
can't pick and choose who comes through your door when
you are licensed to provide a service.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Yeah, I mean, it's a it's an interesting part. Obviously,
it's one that's been subject to a tremendous amount of
debate and it's continuing to be you know, the Massachusetts
regulators are really taking the helm on that. But it's
interesting right when you when you compare sports betting in
that sense to yeah, like all the just consumer facing brands, right,
(21:03):
I mean, you can't you can't necessarily just pick and
choose who you want your consumers to be. To a point.
At the same time, there there are others who can say,
you know, I'm sorry, you're not welcome here. You know,
you were rude to the weight staff. You're not You're
not welcome back at this rest.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
You're winning at something that should be providing. That seems
a little peculiar, but it happens, I mean clearly.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
Yeah, no, no question.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You said you were at bet Bash and uh, I
think that's a big theme for the eight guests that
we've had. I would say probably six out of the eight,
I think we're somewhat involved. Or of course, everybody knows
who Spanky is and you were there in Vegas, Paris.
As far as that seems to be the big topic,
right and and I know Spanky has now started up
(21:51):
his thing where the voice is for the sports gambler.
Excuse me, Yeah, as far as that is concerned, you
think he has some momentum there. Do you think that
regulators will start to pay attention to this more and
more and will actually start to care about the sports
Gambler or is this more of just making a scene
trying as best as possible to eventually get the books
(22:13):
to do what's right.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
But don't know if they will see the light on
that one.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
I think that it has to get traction, you know,
And what's so you know, I'm I'm a huge fan
of the conferences. I feel like anybody who's in the industry.
If you don't go to the conferences, you don't even
understand the industry. So I'm a massive supporter of all
of them. SVC that's you know, one at the top,
(22:37):
I Gaming next. They keep changing the brand, but egr,
those are all amazing conferences. Of course you two me,
but BET BASH you basically have your focus groups sitting
in front of you. So if you really did want
to know then what people need and want and why
and how, you just have to go there as an
(22:58):
operator and ask. But they don't want to know. They don't,
you know, clearly, or they would be there. There are
some operators there obviously, but not the ones that should be.
So I feel like that conference, you know, it almost
needs like another angle to get that other interested party
(23:18):
or that party that should be interested there to attend.
But it was it's such a great you know, I
was always you know, I love my team. I loved
the Pinnacle team and the players. I'm a people person,
so I mean I literally when I walked in, I
saw people that I took bets from twenty nine years ago.
(23:42):
That's why I said I felt like I came home
like it was insane all the people that helped me
be who I am today, to the person who introduced
me to my first employer, to you know, the person
that gave me the opportunity within Pinnacle, Like they're all there.
Billy Walters, first person I made, took a phone call
from and on my first day of work July seventh
(24:05):
to nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
How about that? How about that?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I believe he was inducted into the vsen Or the
Circle Hall of Fame out there at this year.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
Yeah, that Hall of Fame is that? That's some that's special.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Now you're what's your You're on the board of the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I am that's awesome. Roxy gave me a pen last
time I was out there.
Speaker 6 (24:30):
Gosh, he's golden. Like these guys are. You feel like
you're living in a moment. You know. I was supposed
to give Frank Rosenthal his Hall of Fame award to
his daughter. I used to know him very well, just
because he consulted. When he got older. My former boss
(24:50):
was like, you know, let me just help him out,
like he's not enough. My job was to just talk
to him. It was awesome, awesome.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Paris me follow up with one more on Pinnacle because
of course, you know, when we get an opportunity, I
think it's always fun to go into this direction here.
But you know, you dealt with some big names and
of course people that probably put up some big bucks.
Give us one, Give us one, like one game that
you remember, Man, I just took that bet that was
(25:20):
that was some wild action there.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Could you give us one story from your time at Pinnacle.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
Well a Pinnacle. I never took a bet never, No,
I didn't have to. I was running the company. But
there were you know, people that would bet, uh, you know,
a million, like Internet people obviously a million dollars a
bet for every World Cup game once it got to
the quarters.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Now we're talking. I love some knockout soccer, so I
can I could support that.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I don't know about the million. I don't know if
my wife would cosin that, but.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Yeah, no, but you know, I mean there's just there's
the global that's another really interesting component. You know, the US,
that's where I'm from, Like, I'm so patriotic, I'm so American,
but it's not the entire world. And when I had
(26:16):
to pull out of the US market in twenty two
thousand and seven, on that day. One of the reasons
they had originally hired me is because I had a
lot of knowledge of Asia and the rest of world,
and we built it back up to as big as
it was in the US market globally without the US market.
(26:39):
So that's kind of my you know, one thing I'm
very proud of with in Pinnacle. So you know, the
fact is there's a world of business out there obviously.
You know, that's where you can see how solid and
phenomenal the trading team is because they went from being
the best in the world within the US sports to
(27:00):
have to pivot to European football.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Yeah, and you know, I think to that exact point
you were you were mentioning, like the conference circuit earlier.
For me, that's what really opened my eyes to the
international aspect of this industry. I mean here here in
the US, especially with sports betting outside of Vegas, we're
in such a young period and this is such a
well developed industry for decades now in so many more
(27:28):
so many other countries. So you know, I think we
oftentimes lose sight of that here that what what might be, uh,
you know, something that happened seven or eight years ago
here is is just a blink of an eye in
terms of how Europe might look at it.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
So so tell So now you've you've been You've left
Pinnacle called like eighteen months or so ago.
Speaker 7 (27:52):
What what have you been up to other than hanging
out with me?
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Agan?
Speaker 7 (27:55):
Are you are?
Speaker 5 (27:56):
You're You're advising other companies sort of more on the
on the startup, younger side of the in terms of
their stage.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
I am. I'm doing a lot of angel investing. I'm
slowing down now, but I'm also soon to be released
little teaser. I have two industry friends that have I
think combined we figured seventy years of gaming experience. That's
kind of ridiculous, but it's true, and and our networks
(28:26):
are super strong. I just want to help, you know,
I want to get back. I want to use what
I've learned in some ways. I want to monetize it.
You know. My big theory is I want to make more,
to do more, and you know, help people more. I've
just been so so very lucky throughout my career. But yeah,
so we're forming a company that will be there to
(28:49):
really guide, support and help navigate for you know, all
types of people. But really some of the underserved, right
I you know, Megan, she's a goat her she did it.
She you know, she rose to the top if you will.
But there's a lot of people that have great ideas,
they just don't even know where to start. So we
(29:09):
want to help guide them through that, whether it be
females or you know, any kind of marginalized, but anybody.
You know, sometimes there's Joe Blow, he's just not being heard.
He needs our help as well. So that's that's a
new project. It's going to be released. I think next
week we're going to release that. So I'll give you
(29:32):
so that the name so when you see it, you know,
is Defy the Odds is the name of it. Yeah.
And then I'm also helping with a lot of coaching.
And you know, again I love people. So what I'm
seeing and hearing because I mentor a lot of people,
Like there's a lot of toxicity in companies and it's
(29:54):
just a shame because that is going to hinder growth
down the road. So I'm working with a company called
the Ven Group and they're gonna they do some work
within the industry, but they're kind of you know, talk
about that high performance. They have a lot of professional
athletes and professionals in general that work with them, and
it talks about the flow and how do you get
(30:16):
your team in that flow. Innovation is a buzzword, but
if you can get your team at the highest performance,
that's probably what's going to beat your competitors more so
than somebody coming up with something, you know, the next
great idea, Like you know, I think those those those
are a bit tougher to come by. But putting together
(30:37):
the strongest team is something I think is really important.
So I'm working on that and yeah, just enjoying my life.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Yeah, I love it. I think I couldn't agree more
that there are so many great ideas out there and
people just sort of need help get in one foot,
even just partially in the door, and then they can
you know, take it from there. But the industry, being
as small as it is, is sort of a double
(31:05):
edged sword where there aren't all that many people that
can really help you get your foot in the door.
And you know, you're obviously one of them, and one
of the major ones. I know. One of the things
you're doing you talked about SBC next month in Portugal,
is you're judging the first pitch Competition, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's led by Jesse Learmont, who I think
has done more for startups than anybody. I mean, he's
so I used to work well he worked for me,
but I would say we work together and he was phenomenal.
So he is going to be leading the pitch competition.
(31:47):
And you know what I love. I just love looking
at these new ideas because there's a lot of things.
Being an operator, I know, you know, in my gut,
I know what's going to work, what's not gonna work.
Every once in a while I get pleasant surprised, but
rarely so. It's it's super exciting some great new ideas
coming out and you know, looking forward to letting them
(32:11):
all be showcased. But then there's a lot of people.
You know, I went through over thirty pitch decks and
it was hard, Like there's a lot of good stuff
out there right now, right but you just have to
see what makes the most sense, what's what can be integrated,
what's going to have a regulatory challenge? You know, what
(32:32):
makes sense. You know, a lot of times people build
what they like, not what's required or what's a problem
to be solved. So, yeah, that's a lot of fun.
I love it. When I was a Pinnacle, if it
wasn't for Pinnacle, I didn't look at it.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
Well. I I love what they're doing with this competition
and getting startups to to to submit these decks and
be evaluated by a panel of just incredibly experienced judges.
I actually donated five thousand dollars worth of my firm's
legal services to to whoever wins this to help them,
(33:10):
you know, get where depending on what stage they're at,
and you know, get them, get them a little bit
more down the door, down the road, I should say,
and uh, and help them out. So I think Paris,
you and I are aligned in what we're looking for there,
and Sean, maybe we'll get them on whoever it is.
If Paris picks us a good one, we'll get them
on here.
Speaker 8 (33:28):
And yeah, but you know that's to that point this community,
like I am obsessed with sports betting, gaming and the community,
Like what phenomenal people like you know, for you to
do that, that just says it all.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Another company, I don't know if you've heard of a
Zero Labs with Quentin Singletary, like that is phenomenal. That
will help, you know what what everybody's trying to do
that has passion for this industry. They're trying to help
create the best future possible by partaking. So I'll be
an sme in that group. But you know, the way
(34:08):
in which they help these people that have an idea
really put some structure behind that idea, the company, the
whole concept, the pitch deck, and then that helps propel
them to the next level. You know, it's the whole
ecosystem that's been created. And then you have all the
different like Angel Investors with Bernie and Benji Turniak and
(34:33):
you know Chris and there Lloyd and there's so many
there's so many people that they're running a business, but
they're also doing good for the industry. And I love that.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
I think this is one of those classic examples of
you know, when you when you make the pie bigger,
we all kind of win, or the rising tideless all shadow.
You can pick your metaphoria, but no question helping helping
these companies sort of with good thought, through legitimate ideas
(35:09):
navigate what is such an incredibly complicated path to navigate.
You know, Megan talked about that a little bit and
and We've had others talk about it from sort of
the funding side, but the regulatory side. I mean it's
it's expensive and it's tough, and it's tricky, and you
need people who have gone through this before the just
(35:32):
hold your hand a little bit and so you know,
I think it's wonderful that you're out there doing just that.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Absolutely no, it comes across Paris.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And look, we're thankful for the thirty five minutes you
gave us here, but I want to point out, like
you said, just as far as with our seven episodes
that we've already done, just the people that like Alex Kane,
who's got sport trade right now, who is a genius
and he just needs that little He needed that little
help and it seems like that's slowly building for him.
(36:02):
And then obviously to talk to these people like Davis Catlin,
who is a gentleman that actually can get you to
capital if you have a right idea. So look to
be honest with your Paris. We started this and I
know we've said it a few episodes. We started this
podcast because when you think of sports gamling for the
general consumer out there, you think of like the big
drive Kings FanDuel and you know, ESPN bet whatever it
(36:24):
may be right now. But of course there's so many
other layers and so much more money involved, and so
much other things going on, and of course at the
top of a great people like yourself, So keep firing.
We're pulling for you. I don't I don't think you
need our help. You continue to lift the UH to
raise the stakes, that's for sure. But again, can't thank
(36:45):
you enough for a couple of minutes before you get
out of here. Would love for you to plug anything
you did say you had a company coming up here,
But again, plug anything before you get out of here
on this latest episode Behind the Bigs, Please.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
I forgot my own company. Life winning, somebody, how are
you doing. I'm like, I'm winning, Like life is great.
I'm like, And then of course you can't forget you
know the guy winning, you know, I just think he's.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
So.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
But I thought life winning that's a perfect name.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
I'm lucky girl, definitely winning. What what are you looking
at out your window right now? Because we're looking at
the inside of a podcast studio in suburban Pennsylvania.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
A little bit of ocean. I'm not gonna lie living,
living the dreaming cursyle. So yeah, but but yeah, my
life winning is really you know, I have one co founder,
the most brilliant person I've ever met in my life.
My daughter and I raised her, of course, and we're
(37:48):
doing a lot of consulting advising, and that's what all
my angel investing falls under. So she's helping me a
lot with that. It's a lot of fun. I spent
most of my life traveling away from her. Now I
get to take her and she's much more organized and
pleasant than I am. So it's so far it's been
a match made in heaven.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Is a basketball player.
Speaker 6 (38:10):
She was volleyball and football. She is an athlete to
the core.
Speaker 7 (38:16):
Love it, Paris, Thank you so much. This is so great.
Speaker 6 (38:20):
Yeah, thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I really enjoyed it all right, as we always do
a little podcast a recap right here on behind the
veg Evan. I knew that was going to be great
right from the jump, because she just wanted to communicate,
knows what she's talking about.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
A great people.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Person, which I think is kind of you know, you
don't really think that that's needed in this area, but.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
It is, because at the end of the day, it's
about the people in this business.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Whether you're talking about betters, we were talking about people
that set the line, the investors, it's it's it's always
about the people.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
Yeah, I think there's a there's a certain personality that
you see sort of recurring when you go to some
of these well said conferences. Said there are people that
like to talk, like to hang out, maybe have a
drink or two, and maybe yeah, it's the conference is
a good time. I gotta tell you, she she kind
of hit the nail on the head. I mean, they're
they're really interesting, but certainly, you know, for anyone that's
(39:16):
really interested in learning more about this. You know, Portugal
is a little bit far away, but G two E
is in in Vegas in October. SBC usually does an
event in like New York, New Jersey area in the spring.
So I'd highly recommend either of those two for for
anyone that's looking at sort of just roam around and
(39:37):
spend a day or two talking to all the characters
in this world.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah, and and we say that with affection.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
And she is one of those people that the characters
in this in this space and just tremendous from everything
that she brings to the table.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
As far as leadership is concerned.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I could go on and on, but just from some
notes from the episode there, it really struck a cord
with me that it's not booking, it's marketing, and it
you know, look, I think that we are moving in
a direction now that certain things are getting noticed. So
maybe a little bit more as far as booking versus marketing.
(40:14):
But again, I think it's tough for us to sit
here and know what's happening on the other side of
that conversation as well. It can't be easy to be
running DraftKings, running FanDuel, running ESPN bet at this point
in time.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
I think what oftentimes gets overlooked is that there there
can be multiple things for different folks, right, and what
one person might want is to bet on some goofy
you know, eight game parlay and take a shot and right,
(40:50):
and they're betting five dollars and they don't care. And
there's other people who for whom this is like a
you know, a career, or or that there are quasi
professionals and what they're doing it doesn't necessarily mean that
what the other one's doing there's no place for it
in the market. And you know, when you look at
any other industry, there are different there's there's differences. And
(41:14):
I mean, look at automobiles. You have you might have
what you call like higher end and lower end, but
you also have you know, sports cars and luxury cars
and you know SUVs that right, and and and it's
like one's not necessarily better than the other, they're just different.
And and I think that sometimes we lose sight of that,
that there's there's there's there can be space for everyone
(41:37):
if we just sort of accept what they are and
what they're not. But I thought her point was incredibly
well taken, that you know, the for for sort of
true sports betters out there, the options are not not
huge right now.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
No, and and that's why and brought this up there
in the episode bet Bash. Hey, I think we might
need to hit up spanking, But like, could Gambler broadcast live?
Can we just set up shop for three straight days
out there with you guys and be the radio stations
next year?
Speaker 5 (42:08):
I think it's in the falls or in the right.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, and that's a primetime spot to be at Circa
stadium swim with the hundred and five degree heat, that's
where you want to be there.
Speaker 5 (42:20):
You go and it's a dead time for sports radio
in August. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
But now look it does come up and like we said,
just in credit and shout out to you man, you're
speaking at all.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
These uh the these conferences as well.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
So it's it's it's really a great place to be
if you do want to make it in in this area,
if you're trying to take another step in in this
sports gambling space.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
Absolutely this is what you gotta do. You got to
be boots on the ground. Another great place to be
sewn is Currousel. We were just there over the Winner,
and I gotta tell you cruise or did you go
for We were there for like five nights.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
Look at you kidless?
Speaker 5 (43:01):
Uh no, with with family and the grandparents. It was
a family getaway for about five nights. If I'm not
gonna say the the Western Hemisphere's oldest synagogue is in Cuasel.
Speaker 7 (43:17):
Not necessarily what you would have guessed.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I was gonna pretend I knew what you were going with.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
But now there's nowhere near on that one could pull
by you on that, Evan Davis. Finally, I just want
to finish up by saying this, like that's the type
of person that we need to hear more from. Uh
and Paris was so sharp and I could just right
from the jump like knew that she was going to
be a tremendous listen. But if you really do care
(43:42):
about this space, those are the type of people that
we need to elevate and and put a little bit
more emphasis as far as to their words, you know,
and to to really sink our teeth into what they're saying.
So the knowledge and the wisdom was just jumping off
the microphone there.
Speaker 5 (43:57):
I agree with you, and I'll take it one step further,
which is to say, I think if you look back
at sort of the eight guests that we had and
what where they came from, both where they come from today,
who they worked for or what they founded or building,
but also what their backgrounds are and what they bring
to the table. I mean we've had everyone from I
(44:18):
mean we had a you know math PhDs right to
you know Alan who came out he was a college
football player with this marketing idea and just but everyone's
kind of nailing it, and they're they're coming at it
from such different ends. I think if you want to
understand this industry, you've got to really synthesize all of
(44:43):
these different viewpoints, because each of us only brings one
to the table our own, and unless we're out there
listening to people who don't necessarily have the exact same
experience as us and the exact same background as us.
You know, me going home and talking to my buddy
about sports betting is like, well, he and I see
this the exact same way, right, But when you hear
(45:04):
these people coming at it with different perspectives, and one's
building a company and one exited a company, and one's
investing in companies, and.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
To me, I think that's really the only way to
truly understand this world.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
So I'm really glad that we were able to put
together what we did and really bring together those different viewpoints.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Proud of the eight episodes and fantastic work on lining
up every one of these guests. Evan, I had no
part of it, but this was just a tremendous from
A to Z one through eight.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Let me just say like that, John Ewing once again.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Episode one, Alex Kane, who we plugged from Sports Trade,
Sports Trade, excuse me, Megan from Rhythm download it now,
as Paris just said she's involved with it and.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
It is the real deal. You had Brian Wyman, who's
doing big things.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You had Davis Catlin of who she just mentioned as
well Alan Stone, which I learned a lot from from
the standpoint of the affiliate, which is a slash influence
are almost at the same time, but your strategic the
way going about a numbers. I thought that was a
great lesson Brian Bennett, A great listen Brian Bennett last
week was tremendous and I think we just really hit
(46:11):
a home run, a grand slam with Paris Smith. Evan,
please plug what you got going on. Man, Come on,
I don't think we shine the light enough on you
with this.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
I don't need any I'm just commuting my kid to
soccer practice. And uh that's uh no, I've I mean, look,
I you know, I've I've found joined uh this law
firm Royer Cooper Cohen Brownfeld to to launch a sports
and gaming practice and we're a couple of months in
and it's just been great. Uh sort of to Paris's point,
(46:45):
When you can help people, you know, and and make
that sort of your.
Speaker 7 (46:49):
Your job, Uh, that's a really cool thing.
Speaker 5 (46:52):
And I've been really fortunate to do that, get getting
a lot of calls people that are looking to start companies,
figure out the gaming regulatory process, figure out you know,
the legal ropes around fundraising, I mean all of that stuff.
So so I've been really fortunate to have been in
this industry for about a decade or so, and you know,
(47:15):
keep keep seeing where it goes.
Speaker 7 (47:16):
Get It'll take me to Portugal in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 5 (47:18):
I'm excited for that. And uh no, but but I
think I really share Paris's view on it's the people
that you meet within this industry that make it fun
and interesting, because there aren't too many people that can
say both of those things about their jobs. And and
I'm really fortunate to be able.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
To well, said Evan Davis.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
This has been a great ride and hopefully we'll be
doing it again in the future because I thought we
we did something really good here. So and there's a
lot more voices that would love to get a microphone
in front of and of course right here, I'm behind the.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
Big We've had eight great episodes.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Be sure to press play on all of them at
foxphl Gambler dot com.
Speaker 4 (47:59):
Once again at foxph Gambler dot com
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