Larry Bowa – MLB Legend & 2x Golden Glove Award Recipient

Larry Bowa is a baseball LEGEND! 5x All-Star, 2x Golden Glove Award Recipient, World Series Champion, National League Manager of the Year and Philadelphia Phillies Wall of Fame. Tune in for a great history lesson!

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Guys, Kevin Mention here on theBig Head Pod. Just sitting down,
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This stuff is amazing and welcome toanother dish the Big Head Pod Here on

(00:51):
the dub Network. Today's guest,a fan favorite for my favorite team growing
up, spent a lot of timein the City of Probably Love. Two
time Gold Glove winner, World SeriesChampion, and all right, I got
you see him. We always seemto have a smile on mister Larry Bowa.
Larry, how are you, sir? I'm doing fine. keV,
how are you doing? I amgood, I'm good. It's you know,

(01:14):
I miss seeing you, you know, living down here in Texas,
I don't get a chance to seea lot of the Philly networks and stuff,
but you know, seeing you onon the TV shows and then running
around coaching anymore. So you've gottenaway from the coaching side now and just
more of a special assistant type ofdeal, correct, right, right,
I'm a special assistant to to DaveDombrowski, and we're getting ready for the

(01:37):
trade deadline obviously at the end ofthe month. But it's gets a good
gig really. When they're at home, I go to all the home games.
Winning on the road, I goas you know, the minor league
affiliates are in Lehigh Valley, Readyand Jersey Shore, so everything's real close
within an hour. So I'm ableto see some of our young kids also,
which is perfect. Well we'll getto that in a minute, but

(01:59):
I will go back to Larry bowOr from California. Kid, Were you
always a baseball guy? I mean, you know, you know these old
school players always played multiple sports,But were you just a baseball guy?
Only? I played baseball and Iplayed a basketball. That was the only
two. Uh, you know.I was around baseball since I was about
five years old because my dad heplayed. He got his highest triple A,

(02:22):
and he managed in the Cardinal organization. So I remember having a Batton
ball in my hand ever since Iwas able to walk. But California is
a great place to be raised.You can play baseball all year round out
there. And to be honest withyou, the very first time I ever
left California was when I went tospring training in Florida. My very first

(02:44):
year we played, I played inSpartanburg, South Carolina, but our spring
training was in Florida. So firsttime away from home, and it was
it was it was different, noquestion about that. Yeah, that's kind
of how it was for me beingbeing a Delaware kid and never gone west
of the Mississippi until I got afterby Texas. Um, you know,
so doing that, I was readingup on a little bit. I read

(03:05):
up you went to Sack City,their city I lived. I was just
guys in a cape from up there. From sax City, but I think
Barry Zito was a guy, andthat was a sax City guy. I
can't remember play, but I playedwith guys in Shatham that were from Saying
and I've never even heard of it. Right. It was a pretty good
baseball school back in the day.We had a lot of guys signed out

(03:27):
of there. The funny thing aboutthat is, Kevin, I didn't play
high school. I got cut everyyear, and I had a summer league
and the junior college coach was watchingthe summer league baseball and he came over
and he says, hey, whenyou come out for our junior college team.
Now. I laughed at him.I said, I didn't even play
high school. I am I gonnamake your team. He says, I'm
gonna give you every opportunity to makethe team. I said great. So

(03:47):
I went out and I played twoyears and I made All Conference. And
that's where he's no longer living now. But Eddie Bachman, who was a
big time scout for the Phillies,saw me, signed me, and I
guess the rest is history. Iplayed three years in the minor leagues.
I went a double A, tripleA. They went to the big leagues
and end up playing sixteen years andthe big leagues, didn't get drafted,

(04:11):
went through the draft, no draft, no high school ball. But you
know, I try to tell youngkids, if you really believe you're good
enough and you have the desire andthe want to go after it, man,
just go after you never know what'sgoing to happen. I know it's
a little bit different now with theanalytics because if I was playing now,
I wouldn't even smell the field becauseI don't analytic out. So it's a

(04:32):
different game now. But I wasI had the opportunity to play. In
fact, when Eddie signed me,he said to our general manager at the
time, Paul Owens, he said, hey, the worst is going to
happen here. We're gonna sign him. We don't have to give him any
money. He could be an organizationguy and end up being a coach in
the minortics system. So Paul Owenssaid, go ahead, go forward.
And that's how I got signed.And what year was that? That was

(04:56):
in sixty six? Sixty six,so you were eighteen at the time.
Yeah eighteen, okay, yeah wow. And for that like you talked about
not playing at all and then somebodysays they want to sign you to Okay,
I mean that. I don't thinkthat's even fallible these days for somebody
you want to play, I've neverplayed before. Okay, to take a

(05:17):
chance like that, I know,I mean, he he you know,
he he said, hey, youskill out. I don't know if you're
gonna hit, he said. Hesays, you can catch it, you
can throw, you can run.He says, Uh, there's always gonna
be a place at that time,middle end fielders. You know, I
was short second center and catcher catchthe ball left the corners, and the
big boys like yourself hit the ballof the ballpark, and it was defense

(05:39):
up the middle. Uh. AndI'll be honest with you, I couldn't
hit a lick, you know.I through hard work and dedication, great
coaches end up getting over two thousandhits in the big legs and uh,
you know, I look back onit, and it's a lot of it
is luck being at the right placeat the right time. In the early
seventies and Phillies were rebuilding, weren'tgoing anywhere. Ranklew Casey, who was

(06:00):
my manager in a Double A andTriple A, happened to be the new
manager of the Phillies. He knewwhat I could do. I started off
brutal, believe me, and hecalled me in one day says, I
don't care what you hit. You'rethe short stop the rest of the year.
And from then on, you know, I started believing more, working
harder, and things sort of fellinto place for me. So so you're

(06:20):
Minor League afhiliates. Where where'd yougo for those three years? Spartanburg,
South Carolina was a ball reading Pennsylvania, which is said, and then Eugene,
Oregon, which I loved playing therein Triple A. It's no longer
our Triple Triple A now is inLei Valley, but three great places to
play. I mean, I couldn'task for a better thing. And the

(06:41):
thing is, we won championships inall three places, So you know,
I got that label as hey,everywhere we go, he wins, and
that helped me. Obviously, beinga little guy. If I had your
pop, there's no telling how muchmoney I would have been at that time.
You know, at that time therewas there was needs for guys like
myself catch the ball, learn howto get bunts down, hit and run,

(07:05):
steal bases, it's starting to comeback a little bit. If the
stolen bases, guys putting the balland play. I'm watching the kid from
Miami the first thing rm leeks.People said, well, he doesn't have
a launch angle his exit velocity.I said, yeah, but he's hitting
four hundred. We're talking about ares I said, I'll take a guy

(07:25):
hitting four and he gets on base. He makes things happen. So maybe
it's going back a little bit,which I hope it does. Hey,
don't get me wrong, I managed, I coached, I played. Three
run homers are the greatest thing inthe world. A couple of runs and
boom, one of the big guyshit it. But if you really go
back and look at all the playoffgames in World Series, they're not ten

(07:46):
to nine or eight to seven.It's three to two, two to one.
It's good pitching, good defense,stealing bases, moving runners, and
hopefully it looks my daughter just goingyou're good. Yeah, you talk about
Frank, but Casey, he liveshere, he was living here. I'm
not sure if Frank's still Yeah,he lives and I used to talk to
Frank about that all the time.So you talk about, you know,

(08:09):
coming through with Frank being a manager. Early seventies, those Phillies years were
tough, right, and then Iwas looking through it. And then the
big trade happens in seventy two.Right, they bring in Lefty and they
bring in Steve's Carlton yep for Andit seems that year that Schmidt was drafted
was Schmitty draft in seventy two.Okay, okay, So then now these

(08:31):
guys like that. But anyway,that Steve Carlton pissed that year, I
believe we won fifty eight or fiftynine games. He won twenty seven games.
And people asked me, they said, what was it about him when
he got on the mound? Isaid, well, first of all,
when he came in, the onlything he would say is today's win day.
And nobody said a word to him. And the other thing is,

(08:52):
at that time, we weren't verygood hitters. We were very weren't very
discipline, but we knew if wegot two runs we had a chance to
win two to one. We couldwin one to nothing with him on the
mound. But the fact that hewon twenty seven of the fifty eight or
fifty nine games is something I lookback on and I shake my head and
I go, that's almost impossible todo. But agetting back to the Schmitty

(09:13):
story. This, he reminds methis all the time. So you know,
when you get drafted. He wasthe number in first round pick.
So they fly him into Philly andwe're at the vent and you know when
you in pregame, you're taking groundballs, and I felt somebody behind. He
signed as a short stop, soI felt somebody behind me, and I
turned around and says, hey,Larry Boney, he's on Mikes Man.
I said, yeah, I knowyou are. You know I read all

(09:33):
the ground. Says yeah, saidokay, and I said sure. So
he's taking ground balls and flipping themand everything, and we're doing that about
ten minutes, and towards the end, I said, oh, by the
way, you might have played anotherposition, because I planned on staying here
for a long time. He creakedthat up time, and to this I
tell him, I said, youshould be glad because your knees might have

(09:54):
blown out playing short. You wentover the third greatest third basement ever in
base ball. Him and Brooks Robinson. But he writes that story to me
all the day. You remember thatcomment you made to me and I said,
yeah, He said, did youreally mean that? I said,
believe me, Mike, you otherfirst round pick. I felt my days
were numbered when I saw you takeBP take ground balls. So it was

(10:15):
just false bravado at that time.Schmidty's a very kind of down to earth
guy. He's not very very lowkey. I mean, he has a
smile on his face and you seehim and it's just been he's my favorite
player growing up as a kid,as a kid and seeing that. But
I got a chance to meet himand sit down, even a chance to
sit down with Steve Carlton just talking, hearing him talking like you said,

(10:35):
just that demeanor that he had,what about his business right, and you're
playing in a tough city at thispoint, all right, And I think
that hurts Schmidty a lot because everythinghe did, it came you put a
ball in the sandy, could begolf ball, bowling, ball, football,
basketball. The greatest athlete that I'veever seen, as soon as you

(10:56):
go bowling and he bowls two fifty, and he goes golf and he's a
scratch golfer. But I think thecity here thought that he was too aloof
his first year. He didn't hittwo hundred, but he hit you can
see the pop. He had twentyhome runs. This guy's and he had
a great glove. But they interpretedthat aloofness as he doesn't care. And

(11:18):
believe me, I'd lockered right nextto him for the whole time. He
cared as much as anybody that everput on that uniform. But I think
things came so easy for him thatthe fans, you will know Philly fans,
they want to see that dirt allover your uniform. They want to
see you throwing a bat if youpunch out, and Schmidty wasn't that kind
of player. And eventually they warmedup to him. But it's almost like

(11:39):
it was too late. It wasthe end of his career. Now they
had doore him. Every time hetakes the field. He can stand in
the ovations, he comes back foran alumni weekend, he had just he
had a great career and he wasa great guy to play next to you.
I was very fortunate, I reallyI looked at it. I had
three Hall of famers. I hadSchmidty, I had Carlton, and I
know Pete Roses in there. Becauseof various reasons. But he's taken four

(12:03):
over to four thousand hits. Thatspeaks for itself on what Yes, he
deserved. He definitely deserves to bein the Hall and Night and that group.
You know, you talk about goingthrough this the seventies teams where the
struggle and then boom, Dallas Greenpick comes in, Delaware guy comes in,
right, I don't know the Carpentersshould owned the team at that that
moment that time as well, right, Yes, yeah, I know David

(12:24):
and Bobby because they went to schoolwith my brother Delaware, So yeah,
I knew rually for a while.Yep. So those guys come in.
They then they trade for Rose.I don't remember was that it was he
a free agent? Okay, freeagency. We won. We won in
seventy six, seventy seven, seventyeight. Then we were short and there
was something missing. keV. Youknow you're when you're on a team,

(12:46):
and we all came up together inthe minor leagues, the court group,
Booney, Bull, Me and Schmidty. We learned how to win together and
then in the early seventies we weregetting our butt kick. We learned how
to lose too. But there wasa missing ingredient. And you know,
Ruley even said to us, hesays, what if we get Pete Rose
here? And of course, allof a sudden, we played against Pete

(13:09):
in the playoff games. We lostthe two great teams out of the four
playoffs, the Dodgers and the BigRed Machine. So we got a first
end glimpse of what Pete's all about. We said, you ain't gonna get
Pete Rose to come here, andhe said, well we might, and
lo and behold, we got Petehere, and he was like the missing
part of the puzzle. And ofcourse Dallas bringing his demeanor. We had

(13:30):
Danny Ozark, who was very lowkey, great guy. He got us
so far, and then Dallas camein. You talk about different personalities,
yes, and he rubbed some guysin the wrong way. He didn't bother
me at all, because if youwanted to yell at me and say,
hey, you got to get thisdone or blah blah blah, I went
out and did it. But wehad a couple of guys that are a
little sensitive and they didn't know howto take him. But I look back
in Pete and Dallas were the twoguys that to me gave us that little

(13:54):
push to take us to the WorldSeries in nineteen eighty and just I think
through that at late seventies, earlyeighties, those team were just typical Philadelphia
blue collar teams. I mean,like you talking about you talk about you
talk about Bob Boom behind the plate, right, just like Pete Rose that
I mean, everybody goes to PeteRose slide, you know you you know
schmiddy. I'm trying to think ofour the outfield, Greg ride H,

(14:18):
Gary Maddox and Center May second Zinskiand let I mean we could be we
could be eight seven. We hadgood defense, we could steal bases.
We had really a real good teamthat could beat you in so many ways.
But you know, we kept comingup short. And then finally we
got that thing going and that citywas the last month and a half.
There was off the charts and paradeand everything. But you guys were doing

(14:43):
it the right way. You weredoing that the small you know, you
talk about the button hitting guys,you know, moving guys around, doing
guys that could play defense. Ithink I remember the people to say,
if the earth is covered three quartersof the Earth's covered water, who covers
the rest? Gary Maddox. Yeah, yeah, he was. He was
unbelievable. And you know the thingabout that was is the core group came

(15:05):
up through the system. Now itseemed like teams that went Now, well
now you're starting to see it withCincinnati and Baltimore the way they're playing out.
Their guys are getting going through thesystem and they're producing prospects. It's
tough to sign checks every year freeagents. You got to start getting people
through your system to fill in somegaps. It's nice to have a Pete
Rose, it's nice to go getBryce Harper, but you can't keep doing

(15:28):
that every year. And I thinkwe're in a position now where Don Madigley's
son took over our farm system.We're still ways off, but it's much
better than it was. And ifwe can start, you know, getting
some guys coming through the system,because as you well know, when you
go through a system, you knowwhat the guys pluses and his minuses are.
When you go out in free agency, you don't know the guy's history,

(15:50):
and all of a sudden in themiddle of year got I didn't know
we got this guy. This guy'she really is not into it or you
know, but when these guys cameup through your system, you know,
they the pluses and the minuses bythe time they get to Philly. Yeah,
and that's you talk about that.And you don't see like Schmidty entire
career in Philadelphia, right, Youdon't see Tony Gwynn, San Diego,

(16:11):
cal Ripken and ball. You don'tsee that anymore. But as and as
a player, you know, atthat time, I mean, you know
that mentali and probably different than nowof there it seemed like there was no
loyalty so much these days to aplayer or was it more to the player
to the organization that guys want toI mean, look at Bobby both deferred
his contract just so they could goget other guys. We don't see a

(16:33):
lot of that. I mean,was that even something feasible when you were
playing, of a guy deferring acontract or anything else to help, you
know, when we played it,And again it's a lot different. But
the fan base here knew about allthe prospects before we even got here,
so they could relate. They couldgo to Redding and watch this play.
They could go to uh Lehigh Valleynow and they watch these guys play,

(16:56):
so they have a feel of whatthe players are like. But back then
in the mid from mid seventy on, guys wanted to play in Philly.
They knew it was a tough townto play. As you will know,
it's a tough city. You know, it's the greatest feeling in the world.
But when you do bad, yougot to you got a man up.
If you make an air, ifyou strike out three times and you
get in front of that camera,you gotta say, you know what,

(17:17):
I had a bad game. Hopefullyit doesn't happen again. Don't make excuses.
It's a blue collar city. Thesepeople go to work at seven in
the morning, come home at fiveat night. They want to see effort.
And I try to tell our youngkids, if you give effort every
night, I'm not gonna say they'renever going to boo you. But by
the time you end your career,if you do it consistently, you're going
to be on their side. There'sno doubt in my mind. Yes,
I and you know how the mediathere can can destroy a player just like

(17:42):
that. And it's because you knowyou've seen it just being around different sport
guys running their mouth about the mediain Philadelphia and My first thought is you've
just put the nail in your coffin, because you don't do that. You
like you said, you show upto work every day. You put it.
Hey, you're gonna have bad days, right if you endear yourself to

(18:02):
that city and understand that's I alwaysit's that rocky mental You're gonna get knocked
down, but you get back up, you keep fighting, right, So,
I mean you're spent that you knowyou've I guess you talk about how
bad it was for you early inthe seventies, and all of a sudden,
you guys get to the World Series, right, and now you're you've
you've built this now and that justbut it seemed like a b cyclical right
that late eighties or early eighties Eagleswere struggling the early seventies. Now they're

(18:25):
they're playing. They're gonna play Flyersthat just won a few Stanley Cups,
right, Sixers are in the soand now here you guys are. And
you talk about a time to bea Philadelphia sports fan in that eighties era,
you were among that those four teamsyou name, they all got to
the finals. You're the only oneon it. Six You've got to the
finals. Eagles got to the finals, Flyers got to the finals. And

(18:48):
you're talking about a city that therewas no time in between. You know,
usually in between sports they can complainabout all this teams bad, that
they didn't know what to do.Every team was success Bowl and you know
he talked about manning up. Goback to Alex Boum. If you remember
when he says, I hate thisplace. Remember ductor was I think in
Boston we were playing the internet game. He threw the ball away, got

(19:11):
booty when I ate this place.The next day he came out and said,
I was wrong. I was itwas out of I was frustrated.
I wasn't playing the way I shouldhave. I apologize. Now every time
he comes up, he gets thesebig ovations because he manned up. If
he'd have hid and said and thatthat video would have been out. Every
time he went bad, that videowould have been shown. But now they

(19:33):
treat him like, hey, he'sone of the guys. Yeah, and
you're right, it's and you thinkabout everything is right there on Broad Street,
Broad and Pattison. Everything is rightthere. It is and it's and
that's the beauty of it. Peopleask I said, you don't have to
go anywhere. Everything is on oneblock, and that in the sports passion.
You know, as a fan base, you look at a lot of
these teams regardless you know, winor lose, but there they tend to

(19:56):
tend to be forced more to thenorth. The fan base is there.
You could be bad, they're gonnashow up. You're good, they're gonna
be there. You know, it'snot the thing to do. Sometimes in
some of the places in the South, it is that way, right,
you said, So you've been around, you've been you know. You know,
after you're done playing, you gomanage. You're coaching. You're in
LA, right, the coaching inLA seeing they come in the third and
leave in the seventh, Yes,but they come out, but they don't.

(20:18):
You don't very seldom see booing.You don't see buoying in Saint Louis.
But you go to Philly, NewYork, Boston. I'm telling you
you're under the microscope. And theonly thing I can say to these guys
that come up is give one hundredpercent. That's the easiest thing to do
is play hard. Other stuff's hard. It's hard to hit it, it's
hard to catch it. It's hardto make pitches, but the easiest thing
to do is effort. And ifyou do it on a consistent basis,

(20:42):
day in and day out, eventuallyyou're gonna you're gonna win them over.
Obviously, you know you have tohave some ability. You got to be
there a while, but if youdo it the right way, they're gonna
eventually like you. Yeah, soyou get out of you know, you
finished playing, it was your firstthought to go, I want to go
coach. I know you talked aboutbefore that they said you could be an

(21:02):
organizational guy in code. I mean, so you know when you're done playing,
you know, as you finished,was it eighty five? Okay?
And you're done? And so doyou want to get into coaching or is
it just you know, some peoplethey pick one do I do I do?
Or not? What avenue? Imean, we know the avenue took,
but what kind of led you inthe direction you went. I told

(21:23):
you baseball was my life and Iwanted to stay in it. In fact,
I had a chance at the endto be utility man for the Cubs
because they got me the last monthof my career. You know, when
you go the last month where youexpand Rochy said, we're gonna pick up
boll At the Cubs let him go, and so I played on a part
time basis and Frank Cashing was aGM. At the end of the year,
he says, hey, I wantyou to come back a utility player.

(21:45):
And you know, the five sixseven games I played in that month,
there were balls that were hit tome that in my mind I knew
I got to catch, and Ijust wasn't making the place and I didn't
want to play utility. I justI was used to playing every day and
I appreciate it the opportunity. Isaid, I think I'm gonna call of
a career. And within two weeksafter that, Jack McKeon calls me if

(22:10):
he was a gem of the PodRace. He says, hey, do
you want to stay in baseball?I said yeah. He said, I
got a job in Las Vegas,our Triple A team. I want you
to manage. I went, whoawow. Right out of the gate,
I'm gonna go to Triple A.I said, yeah, I'm all in.
Well I went there, we wonthe championship, and hindsight being twenty
twenty, if I could have stayedthere a couple of years, it probably

(22:32):
would have been better for me.But as soon as we won the championship,
Jackson said, I wanted you tomanage San Diego, and I went,
whoa man, this is a fasttrack right here. There's not too
many guys that you know what,I think I'll stay in Vegas. I'm
not ready, but you know,looking back, I probably should have stayed
in the minor leagues a couple moreyears. But it was a learning experience.
We had a young team. Wedidn't win right away, and of
course the owner at that time wantedto see results and it didn't work out

(22:56):
there and then eventually end up coaching, and eventually the Phillies asked me after
Terry Francona got fired here and nothingagainst Terry. Terry's a great manager.
They had a bad team. Imean they were losing a hundred games,
ninety eight games, and Eddie Wade, who was the GM, he says,
what are we going to do?We got to change the attitude here.

(23:17):
He says, these guys were usedto losing. They're getting too used
to it. So they brought mein in twenty one, two, three,
and four. We played five hundredevery year. We got close in
one year of the playoffs, butthe attitude change, and then eventually they
took Charlie took over and they wona World Series in OH eight, got
there again and OH nine, Butthe whole deal was the culture change.
We started getting guys through the systemin Utley and Jimmy Rawlins and Ryan Howard

(23:41):
and again we talked about going throughthe system using your minor league guys,
and it was a pretty good baseballteam. So that's so where I really
always wanted to be involved in baseball, whether it be if it wasn't a
professional I would have liked being acoach somewhere in a high school or whatever.
But baseball has been my whole life. Have been very blessed by the

(24:02):
man upstairs. Uh Chile's in particular. I've given me opportunity after opportunity,
and again, you have to belucky and you have to be at the
right place at the right time,and things have worked out pretty good for
me. Yeah. Tito was mybench coach my first year. No.
Two, I think he had left, yeah, because you had taken over
an No. One correct, right, and then yeah, I think yeah,

(24:23):
okay, yeah, yeah, Andthen he was my bench coach and
then he goes on to I'll actuallyI'll see him this week there. I
think Cleveland's in town. Um.But see, you know, seeing that
guys, and you talk about theculture a little bit of changing. You
know that we have this old schooland this new school mentality. Old school
seem tends to be about team.The new school tends to be about individuals.

(24:45):
So I mean, you play withguys who probably if you stepped to
the line, we're probably gonna punchyou in the face back there right there,
Ye, no question. Yeah,And I think that's but that's that
mentality of I think it's just howour generation was raised of watching that and
I think that's that's gone by thethe wayside. But as so as a
manager, you know, how doyou combat that when when your mentality is

(25:07):
this this old school And I know, like I said, I came through
with all the with Ryan and Chaseand all those guys are playing. They
were an old school type of playertoo. Yeah, yeah, and they
and that's what, like you said, I think it endeared to the city
of Phildelphia, you said, ledto the World Series, and these guys
were able to you know, NewBallpark you know you guys leave Vetteran Stadium.
What was it? Oh was itone? You know? Uh four

(25:33):
oh four? Okay? Doing thatCitizens Bank? Yeah yeah, and doing
that and think about that cap isuh the old school. You know,
we all know the game's changed.As you will know you played, You
probably played with some old school guysand you saw this change coming and everything.
Back in the day, even withChase and Jimmy and those guys,
those guys would police themselves. Youknow, you didn't need to go to

(25:56):
jump out, just like when weplayed. I remember just vividly. I
mean I spent some years in thebig leagues. I had made five All
Star teams, and Pete Rose wason the team, and there was a
situation that came up where the buntwas on for me and I didn't get
it done before I got to Yougot to get that bunt down. You
got to do that. I mean, this is a front of the whole
team. And I said, you'reright, I didn't do it. You're

(26:17):
right, But I mean stuff likethat happened all the time. Now it's
more like coaches have to be thebad guys because guys, guys very seldom
discipline themselves now, I mean asfar as other guys, they take care.
Like you said, Hey, Igot worried about myself. I'm sure
I want to win every night,but I'm taking care of myself. I
can't worry about Joe schmol If he'snot running balls out, that's up to

(26:37):
the coaches. So the game's changedthat way. And again, you know,
if you're a baseball guy, whichI am and I know you are,
you got to change with it.I mean there's some rules now that
I scratched my head at, butit's different. Now it's different. I
mean I look at when you gointo second base, Hummer, guys trying
to knock me into left center field. I remember catchers getting knocked down,

(27:00):
knocked out at home, played oncollisions. And now you have the gold
second. You can't touch the guy. You got to give the guy lane.
Um. You know again, I'mnot mad at it, but that's
how the game has changed a lot. And do you like it? I
still don't like it, but Iwatch it because I love baseball. It's
a different game now, you know, you talk about running the catcher and

(27:21):
every everything always goes to I remembertalking to Ray Fosse when we're also going
to Oakland. When Pete Gray andhim in the All Star Game game,
yes, yeah, yeah, butthat's I mean so so when you see
that as a player and then Pete'son your team, you know that's hey
Pete, what you know? Whatwere you thinking at that moment? Is
did you do you ever have adiscussion with him to say, oh,
yeah, he said my main me, main job is make sure he didn't

(27:45):
tag me out. And I wantedto get to home plate. But you
know, getting back to the AllStar Game, you know what. They
put on a great, great showin Seattle. But it's so much different
now. We used to have thepresidents of each league, a national league.
I come in say how important thisgame is? American League? Guy?
Would it was? It was right? It was besides the World Series,
this game. It was very competitive. Guys didn't like each other.
We didn't like the American League.They didn't like us. And the eight

(28:08):
or nine games when I was inbaseball, six or five of them I
playing. We won every game.And now just recently the National League yesterday
day before they finally broke the streetand they won. But it's more like
as it's more like a showcase game. Now you don't see guys knocking people
down or one tier. I sawKurt Schilling pitching once and he threw one

(28:30):
up and end. He goes likelike this, like my bad, and
I'm going, man, I can'teven imagine Nolan I and throwing one up
and in and going my bad.Guys didn't play. It was just the
matality was different. I mean,I'm glad I played when I played,
but I do respect the players playingnow. They're fast, they're strong,
they throw hard, they're fun towatch. But the way the game is

(28:51):
played is a lot different than whenwe played. Yeah, you know,
like you talk about Jimmy Rollins,the leadoff batters getting guys over, you
know, hitting rhyme, hitting behindthem, got you know, driving runs
in. But that and that's justthat's gone. You know. A guy
like you, so, a LarryBowa type player today is expected to hit
twenty five home runs and strike outtwo hundred times. Right, no chance.

(29:12):
And again it's it's the way thatteams are sort of setting up their
rosters now. But I look atat Miami and I watched that team,
and I've watched them a lot becausethey're in our division. They always had
picture, but they couldn't do anything. Now I'm watching them play. They're
putting the ball and play, they'removing runners, they're sacrifice bunning, and
Schumacher has done a great job withthat team. I don't know what they're

(29:33):
going to do in the second half, but their pictures are throwing. Well.
I watched teams like that, thenI watched I watched the World Series.
When when we played Houston last year, I see guys land down bunts,
I saw a hitting runs, Isaw a stone on basis. Now,
all of a sudden, when youplay one hundred and sixteen two games,
we don't do any of that.But now when he gets down to
the nitty gritty, we're doing everything. And just like the ghost runner at

(29:55):
second base of all, but weput a ghost runner out there all year.
But now when the playoffs the WorldSeries start, we don't have a
ghost runner again, which I think. I mean, you saw the Seattle
game last year. What was aneighteen innings Seattle and Houston and Houston one
one to nothing. But but thatthat's baseball with forty strikeouts or something subbelievable

(30:18):
strike out twelves the charts. Butit's just you know, if you're gonna
use the rules, use them allyear. Don't just Oh, we're playing
for money now, big time money. We're playing for rings, so we're
gonna forget the ghost runner. Uh. Just like now they're they're comparing the
stolen base rate. It should behigh. You only saw over there twice.
If you don't get them, they'regone. Let Ricky Henderson, guys

(30:38):
Ricky Henderson, Vince Coleman, LouBroth, let them play under those rules.
They have two hundred stelling basses everyyear. That's what I said the
other day. There's still it's apizza box. It's seventy five between bases.
Of of course, this guy's dela crue is the guy from the
reds or tell how great you?I said, Ricky would have a sixty
selling basis in his first fifteen games. If that's how you played, see

(31:00):
and then you put the oven Midon, you got the bigger bait.
How many times as a bang bangon the throw to second they got a
bigger bass, They got the Ovanmid and you guy doesn't clear the guy
out. So there's so many it'sjust so different now, But don't compare.
I hear these the sports guys.Oh, stolen bases are up,
and I'm going they should be.They should be way up. But don't

(31:22):
take away what guys back in theday did, like Ricky and Lou Brock
and Vince Coleman, guys like that. Don't take away what they did because
what they did was something very specialand it was a lot harder to do.
Yeah, for sure, And Iget that, you know, you
just but you want you talk aboutlike the purity of the game, the
records and the picking off these guys. It's we had to talk about this

(31:45):
the other day about players are notreactive. They're not proactive. They're reactive.
They almost have to be told whatto do. They don't let their
instinct. But you think about it. You see it guys in the dugout
looking at a computer and iPad.So as a player, how did you
learn best? Would you've been onthe iPad or would you would actually have
conversations with people that dugout. Wewould have conversations, guys. Would Guys

(32:07):
would be in the dugout saying,hey, you know, when this guy
throws a breaking ball, watch hisglove is gonna flare a little bit.
But it was always watching. Andeven the guys that weren't playing every day,
they were on the bed, Theyweren't upstairs. They were watching the
game trying to get an edge.But like you said, now guy makes
an out and right away they goto the iPad. When I was coaching,

(32:28):
we started having the iPads and everything, and I remember a guy coming
in and they hitting at. Thehitting coach at the time was Matt Stairs,
and we had no information on thisguy. Come hes got called up.
We don't know what he threw.We didn't have the advanced stuff they
have now. And again, whatdoes he throw? I gotta know what
he throws? And messays, watchhim warm up, he's gonna go fastball,
curveball, change up, watch himwarm up. They turned their back

(32:51):
to him. And now I watchedhis guy and they look at the iPad,
A pictures when he's warming up.Come to now that bullpend. He's
gonna tell you his pictures. He'llgo split, he'll go change up.
Sly. You know you don't needall I mean, sometimes I think that
information is great, but I thinksometimes, as you well know, overload
can kill you. Sometimes you startthinking up there, oh this guy never
throws a fastball and the counts twoand now he's breaking ball. So now

(33:15):
you get up there and you're thinking, oh, camp, I'm not even
looking. I'm not even looking fastballand you're looking breaking one. I got
throws them down the middle of andgoes, how can you take that pitch?
Because it's you can't. I mean, it's good stuff, But I
don't know how you hit. I'msure not. I mean, knowing you
the way I do, I'm sureyou hit off the fastball when I was

(33:35):
taught me, you hit off theguy's most velocity and then you make adjustments.
And I think it was a JamieMoyer guy throwing seventy eight miles an
hour. Then yes, right,well, and when you face the Jamie
Moyer, I guarantee one thing youdidn't stand away in the batter's ball back
in the back. You've moved upbecause the boss change up where he has
a sinker. These guys stay inthe same place every time. I asked

(33:59):
Bryce Harper once, I said,when you face a real good sinker baller,
do you ever think about moving up? And he looked at me like
I had tam Hessie is Now,I said, well, I know,
you're a great hitter. I said, But he goes, what was your
philosphere that? I said, Iwant to get that thing before I start
biting too much. He goes,yeah, I never thought of that,
he said. But he said,that doesn't bother me at all. And
I said, you're a great hitter. So, but I mean little things

(34:19):
like that. We used to lookat that stuff. Pete Rose used to
say that move up on it,Move up in the batter's ball. He's
not going to throw the fastball byyou. Move back with Nolan Ryan Pitts,
move far back as you can get, you know, get a good
look at it. But those werethings that you did verbally with each other,
and we didn't have iPads in andwe didn't have the information they have
now, which is like I said, I think there's a great information out

(34:40):
there, but sometimes it's overkill.How many times have you had a coach
a sea ball? Hit ball?Forget all the other stuff. See the
ball, hit the ball. Sometimesit works, other times you're ol freight
teen. Don't matter what you're doing, you're not getting a hit. Yeah,
that's that game so great, Ithink, Yeah, because you wanted
to. I remember, we didn'thave you know a lot of that stuff.

(35:00):
But oh yeah, I saw thisguy in the minor leagues when you
know what he would throw, Likeyou said, so you have to learn
that way and figure out. Youknow, you're looking, you're watching the
game. You can see the bullpen, you see balls flying all over there.
No, this guy's coming up,and you're going, oh great,
there's a right he throwing a hundred. It's all over the place. Yeah,
who's coming up? Yeah you are, So you better be ready as
opposed to looking at I pad andseeing him throwing it in the box every

(35:22):
time. You feel for the gametoo. Why That's why I sort of
like I was getting into this theshift. I mean, my belief is
if you can't move the ball theother way. But the more I see
the no shift, I see moreathleticism in the middle of the diamond guys,
you see more range. You seeguys backhand and balls, and I

(35:45):
think overall, instead of having threeguys on one side, you're going to
see short So I'm making some greatplayers, or second basement making some great
plays. But I try to tellI got a little bit of trouble two
years ago. You know, wehave the cards and I said, instead
of having our Low A guys cards, let them learn how to read swings.
Let him learn how to play counts. In the end, you got

(36:06):
a guy like yourself hitting third orfourth in the lineup, and the counts
two or three. One man,I don't even have to walk. I'm
look, I'm moving over because Iknow he's looking for one thing. He's
trying to hit this ball nine hundredfeet and get out in front of something.
But if these kids learn how toread swings, they do it as
they graduate. Now, as youget a little bit higher, you want
to get more sophisticated and start givingout that information. But when you're in

(36:28):
low A, let these guys learn. That's how you learn by the mistakes
you make. But they go outthere and right away they pick straight away
two steps of full learn how toread the hitter. Guy's strolling ninety eight.
Maybe the next time he's out therehe doesn't feel good, or he
had a fight with his wife.He's stilling ninety three. I'm gonna make
some adjustments of adust. I mean, if something they don't the analytic people

(36:52):
don't take that into consideration. Yourkid might be sick, you might not
have got any sleep that night.The picture doesn't feel it. But these
you can't put all that. It'snot one size fits all. You don't
throw all this stuff in a computer. It's a game of adjustments, and
you, as a player, gotto make those adjustments. You're right,
because that's just a visual thing ofknowing how guys feel what they're right that.

(37:13):
You know, guys, you knowyou played middle infield, so you
know Booney's catching. You're trying topick up signs right, so you know
to make an adjustment. Center fielderskind of do the same thing. I
mean, do you even do guys? E can talk to you about that
nowadays. As far as playing themiddle infield, I tell my young kids,
guys try and pick up the signsto know one situation, guy out
their base less than two outs werepitchers probably pitching in, so you know

(37:37):
your movement's gonna be more to yourright side than anything else seeing pitches.
Do you guys have that discussion withyou, I mean being you know,
coaching or is it just right?Cards says this and that's it. There's
some guys that do ask questions,but the majority as the cards. But
you know, I just think Ilook at it this way. When you're
playing the infield, and as yousaid, there's situations going to come up

(38:00):
when you got the infield in andas you said, I want if I'm
a picture, I wanted to rollover a groundball to third base, so
you know, in your mind you'resaying, this guy's gonna my picture's gonna
do this. I hope the hittertries to roll over. If he's a
good hitter, he's probably gonna stayin the middle of the field. But
again, these are things that Idon't think we talk enough about it.
I try to tell young kids ifyou're playing the corners and the shortstop and

(38:23):
second basement. If I'm playing firstor third, I want to know when
a change ups coming. You know, if I'm the short stop. I
used to tell Schmidtie all the time. We have a little sign verbally like
off speed or change up, sohe's ready. You know, he gets
somebody gets out in front of thechange up, the ball gets down there
first base, the same way you'reholding a runner on. If I'm playing
first, I want to know ifa big power hit and left hand left

(38:45):
handed hitters up if a straight changeis coming. So I'm ready, I'm
already locked in. These guys theydon't like giving signs. I don't know.
I don't know why. Maybe becausein college they didn't do it.
I don't know. It's just becauseSchmidty say a couple of times I'd missed.
He go, hey, it wasa change up right, And I
said, yeah, I didn't goingto put his gloved down there too,

(39:07):
suit But but you know, hewanted to know. And you know,
I respect that part of it.And you played on that concrete turf as
well. A bet your stadium isthat play airport? Yes, Oh my
god, I can't imagine how hardthat stuff was back in the day.
And base those guys hitting balls,and like you said, Schmidty's playing,
he's playing in and all of asudden he's looking at you for that big

(39:30):
boy Jim Rise or Baylor or whenwe played Dave Kingman was one of those
sixty at six they want to tryto get the head out. And Gary
Carter, Dawson, all those guys. I mean, when he said,
bo I want to know, Isaid, I'm gonna give you every time
I see it, I'm gonna giveit to you. Yeah, And and
but that's just it's funny that youdon't that guys don't have those conversations,

(39:52):
especially with if I'm a short timeHey, hey Larry, what do you
what are your thoughts on this?You know, I played the outfit,
so hey, what are your thoughts? And so? Is that what it
is? I mean, do guys, I know it's a coach. It's
hard to instill what we learned,you know, to go seek people out.
Do you do? You have todo that more now than people actually
saying, hey, coach, bothwhat do you what do you think you

(40:14):
do? Yeah? I think forthe most part, the young kids,
first of all, this you're gonnalaugh at this. They don't really know
the history of Philadelphia. I mean, I had a guy now, I
go to spring training. I suitup every year. We're talking one day
and I said, well, MikeSchmidt. He goes, who's Mike Schmidt?
And I went, oh my god, Oh my god, are you

(40:36):
serious? You know he looked atme. I said, he's the greatest
player I ever played here third base. He says, oh, that's why
the field's name. I say,yeah, that's why there's a Mike Shmi.
But see, they're so caught up. They don't. I'm a firm
believer I might be wrong in this. When the kids signs, I think,
whoever you sign in the draft,you get a bus, you go

(40:59):
to Cooper staf You let them seethe Philadelphia Phillies, all the people that
played here, the history of thegame, the guys that were great,
the guys that were but that wonGold Gloves or cy young winners. So
I'll have an idea when somebody comesup to him and say, hey,
man, you reminded me of MikeSchmidt, He's not gonna says Mike Schmidt.
He's gonna say, oh man,that's a great compliment. But if

(41:21):
every team would do that, taketheir team, take their draft picks to
Cooperstown, show them the display ofthe Philadelphia Phillies who played there, when
they played, who won World Series, it would I think it would be
very beneficial, not only for theorganization, but for the young kids coming
up. Yeah, it's you're right. It's almost as if other than themselves

(41:43):
and they said, Okay, thePhillies drafted me, all right, who
are the Phillies people? Wait,the Philadpihillies just drafted me, and I'm
playing for the Phillies in the historyof like you thought, Mike Schmidt,
Robin Roberts, Richie Ashburn, theseguys that could that kind of built this
organization as opposed to where am Igoing. I'm just you know what I
mean? But is that this newschool it's just about me? Is that
this how the thought process is?I don't know. I mean, it's

(42:07):
it's tough, I think, keVbecause of the travel squads and everything.
Think about these travel squads. Theydon't teach guys how to win. When
you go to a travel game,they want to see your skills, so
they want to get They get everybodyin right for you, and I'll throw
throw the ball as hard as youcan. In third base, you guys
aren't over the cutoff man, butthe guy goes man. That's a good
arms street. They hit in thebatter's box. They're lifting and separating,

(42:29):
trying to see how far they couldhit balls. They don't teach them the
intricacies of playing baseball, the fundamentalsof pain playing baseball. It's the eighth
inning and you're hitting fifth and aguy just hit a double. The scores
tied hit a ball to the rightside. I'm not asking you a bunt.
You're a big guy. Try tohit a ball at least one or
two strikes to the right side,get the guy to third base. Who

(42:51):
was the guy that I was talkingto. It was just recently too,
we were it was about to shift. And forget the kid's name. We're
talking and Bobby Dickerson, who wasthe infield coach now great infield coach.
We're talking to him. I knowwho us it was, Scott Kingery.

(43:12):
Scott Kingery. Bobby says, ifit's the seventh game of a World Series,
this is for all the marbles.The man in front of you just
doubled scores tied. Can you hitme a groundball there? And he looked
at him dead. Series says no, my swing, my swing will not
allow me to hit a ball there. And Bobby says, we're going for
a ring, We're going for thebest team in all the baseball and you

(43:35):
can't push the ball over there toget this guy to third. He says,
that's not the way I swing.And I'm going, oh my god,
But I mean that's the mentality ofI'm not changing my swing. That's
why this kid reads the reason Ilike him. You know, if you
watch these, a lot of powerand not all of them. They got
a groove swing. And if thosepictures hit where that groove swing is,

(43:57):
they're gonna hit a long way.But this kid gets a barrel to the
ball no matter where it is.It could be up, he could be
down, it could be in,it could be out. Same with Pete
Rose, same with Rod Carew,same with Tony gwyn. They have that
ability to get the barrel to theball, not just one swing. You
make adjustments counts own too. I'mbattling, I'm spreading out a little bit,

(44:19):
I'm letting the ball get a littledeeper, but that barrel is going
to get to the ball. AndI think there's too many guys now that
go for that groove swing. They'regonna hit their thirty five. But a
great example is Joey Gallant. Thisguy's got as much pop as anybody.
I've seen this a mile. Butthere's three things that gonna happen with this
guy. He's gonna strike out,he's gonna walker, He's gonna hit a

(44:40):
ball. He's a good outfielder,a real good outfield But now the mentality
of a lot of these general managersto put teams together. That's what they
want. So if you're a youngkid coming up and you know you're gonna
get paid bookoo money to hit ballsover the fence. They don't care if
you strike out, as long asyou get your walks. Hey, if
i'd me, young kid, I'mgonna say, man, I'm gonna try

(45:01):
to make some money playing in bigleagues. It's just the way the mentality
is right now. And a lotof these jams now that's what they like.
And I think we're starting to giveit to go back a little.
I don't think it's ever gonna goback all the way. I mean,
you still want your big boys inthe middle of the lineup to hit balls
of nine miles. But it's it'sjust it's a different philosophy now. Yeah,

(45:21):
and you talk about the fundamentals,that was something that seems like you
took to almost personal. You know, I almost one of the highest fielding
percentage ever in the National League withwhat you did. So and you said,
like I said, now you watchingtoday's game, I see fundamentals are
out the window. So how muchdoes that eat at you to sit there
and watch somebody where I mean,I see your stories about like Ozzie Smith

(45:44):
taking groundballs on his knees, noteven looking, just flipping and these and
now it's what five grounds and I'mdone. I mean, how do you
sleep at night watching? This?Is what I want to know, Larry,
because because I'm gonna tell you rightnow, fundamentals you watch, base
run is horrendous. Right now,I've never seen I've never seen base running

(46:05):
mistakes like this. But see thedifference to keV Is. I had to
do that or I wouldn't have played. I had to do little things.
And my dad always said, you'renever gonna be a strong guy. You're
gonna have to move runners, laydown a bond, steal a base,
make good plays. So that wasembedded in my mind since I was able
to pick up a baseball. Youhave to do this or you're not gonna

(46:25):
play. Now it's if I hitthree hundred or hit thirty home runs.
If I don't, if I'm notgood defensively, it's okay, I'm gonna
put some runs on the board.Or if I'm not a good base runner,
no big deal. A lot ofgames are one run in the basis.
I mean, it's unbelievable how youcan win baseball games looking around,
seeing how deep the right fielder is. A guy hits the ball by the

(46:47):
first baseman. You shouldn't even pickup a coach. You know you're going
first and third. I tell theguys one way coaching with Philly, when
you play at Wrigley Field and thatballs hit to the right side, the
grasses this high, don't even look, just go to third. I don't
even look. You got to knowthe ball is gonna stop because the grass
is so high. And if youplay on after turf, it's gonna be
a little bit different. You gottapick up the third base coach. There's

(47:08):
so many things, getting secondary leadswith two outs and at second base.
Guys should never get thrown out athome play if you have a good secondary
lead. So you see it happena lot. So But again, it's
the philosophy, and it's it's notimportant. That part of the game is
not important anymore. And until westart making it. When I say we,
I'm talking about all of baseball.Until we start making that a priority,

(47:30):
you're gonna still see stupid base runningmistakes, guys missing groundballs, not
knowing how many outs there are,throwing to the wrong base, missing to
the cutoff man. These are allthings that help you win baseball games.
And again, do I love threehundred homers, manager, coach, player,
I loved them, But they don'thappen every night. You've got to
find ways to win games besides threerun home runs. Yeah, and that's

(47:52):
that's especially in the postseason, rightthese short series, you've got to figure
out ways to get runs, putruns on the board and do that.
And that's it's completely gone, right, Like you talking about that seventeen any
game I saw a couple of guysget walked to leave somebody, But I
don't care. Do you want tostay here all night? Just somebody figured
it out? I mean, butthat's what I mean. It almost as
if, well, then it's gonnahurt. It's gonna hurt my statistics.

(48:14):
My numbers are gonna be this.But I have a high war or whatever
the hell these statistics they're throwing outthere these days, because that makes me,
that makes my dollars sign go up, because I'll hire awards. No.
But but but you know, youknow, putting the ghost runner out
there, I understand if you're thevisitor. Sometimes one run's not gonna get
it, so you don't put abunt on. But when that team doesn't

(48:35):
score a run in the top ofthe tenth, and you got the right
people up there, like maybe you'rea big boy like Harper or Bomb or
Castianos aren't hitting, but the guystowards the bottom get the guy to third
base. All we need to run. But the analytics say the percentage of
guys scoring with a man on thirdone out isn't that good. So and

(48:58):
the other thing that gets me onthat again, I like a lot of
analytues that. But there's stuff whenthey tell you an ounce and out,
no, a strikeout, nobody handlesthe ball. You put the ball in
play, somebody's got to make theplay. Throw the ball over the first
or if a guy's going on contact, throw the ball home. There could
be a mistake. But when youpunch out, nobody has to handle the
ball. You just take it backto the bench, put it in the

(49:21):
rap. Now there's one out anda man still a second. My deal
is, show me that you're tryingto hit a ball to the right side
now after a strike and you didn'tdo it, go ahead, go for
yourself. But God given an effort, that's all. Yeah, you didn't
tell it. The guys trying youwo, you can tell when the guys
trying to push the ball over there, Yes, trying to fight everything.

(49:42):
So the ghost runner thing, somebodymade a good point today. The ghost
who gets credited with the run?Then who's it go against? Right,
it's an under run supposedly. Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't
know that runner on second. Sothese guys come in and give up that
run. It's it's counters an,it's not on there, it's not on
their step. So again, youknow the other thing that I see happened.

(50:07):
And I know you watch baseball.There's a lot of balls hit now
they don't even they don't even giveairs. Now, it's automatic hits.
It's unbelievable. And I've heard thiscomment and again I don't know if it's
true because I go to all thegame. Well, people in New York
say, if a ball shit overninety five miles an hour, they want

(50:29):
to hit her to be rewarded.So I said, the guy said,
So another guy, guy hits mea ground ball and crushes it, but
it goes right through my legs,and it was ninety seven. He said,
I'm just telling you they want youto be rewarded for your exit BALLO
see in ninety seven. I'm going, oh my god, So they want
those batting averages up a little bit, I guess. So. No,

(50:49):
wonder fielding percentage are so high.I know it, there's no, it's
unbelievable. How about another thing totalk about, like the one knee catcher
stuff doing that? Yeah, yousee that, especially with guys on third
base. I don't get it.You're trying to frame but the boat backing
off the screen, and I getit. You want to steal a pitch

(51:10):
with a man on first or something. Well, that guy starts getting a
scoring position. Man, I'm readyfor something to happen. But guy bouncing
a breaking ball or something. Butagain I noticed our catcher now JT.
He doesn't do it as much ashe did, which he's a great athlete,
and I don't think he liked it. And I think he finally made

(51:30):
it a point to say that Idon't want to do this with a man
on third base, so which isgood. And you see it, especially
the balls in the third because theycan't get over to block, especially a
breaking ball. Yeah, you're tryingto pick it and everything else. Can
I mean, that's the hardest thing. You just Okay, that's probably the
problem. I'm sure the analytics say, well, the probability that runs scoring
is less than three percent or something. Okay, what about with the one

(51:54):
knee catcher where the percentage go upor anything else? So question, I
mean, they got I got anumbers. They can make those numbers look
anyway they want, you know,but that part of the game it really
budget because especially you know, likeyou said, a guy's best pitch as
a split or a good breaking ball, and he's got a kid guy one
and two, and he sees yourleg out there, he's going, oh

(52:15):
man, he's getting right here becauseI don't want to bounce this, so
he lives in the middle of theplate and bam, it's in the scene.
I never thought about that. Maybethat's what Nurse's fault was. I'm
serious, I don't know. Imean, it's but again, they always
have answers for when you try torebut what they slaying. I used to
argue with them, but now Ijust I go with the slow. Now

(52:37):
it's like I said, I've sortof conditioned my mind to say it's a
different game now and enjoy it becausethere are there's some good athletes. It's
it's fun to watch some of theseguys play. It really is. It
is, and you would like tosee all the talents, you know,
exploited as far as you know.A guy, somebody laying down a bunch
just for the sake of it,just seeing what he can do, Like

(52:59):
this guy dealer groups late on abunt, just I just want to see
what you can do, right,because then all of a sudden, now
you've changed the game completely. Okay, he can bunt. You planned that
feed and you got the infield andthe third basement playing instead of playing twenty
feet behind the bag. He's evenwith a bag. Now you get semi
jammed on a ball hit his left. It sneaks through for a hit.
But they don't, they don't,they don't think that far ahead. I

(53:22):
told a couple of guys just fakedlike your bunny. You're playing a seed.
You move the guy in a littlebit. Now you don't get the
barrel to the ball, but youget a ball between third and short or
if he's back twenty feet it's fiveto three and you're you're heading back to
the pitch. Yeah, but Iremember, g man, when you got
the ball, you turned around,you look where everybody was playing, and

(53:42):
normally when you when you got inthe box, you can tell by the
way the outfielders playing, how thepitcher's trying to get you out. Stuff
like that. I don't know ifthat goes on right now. I really
don't. I mean, you wantbut just seeing it though, that's and
that's just the thing I said.You know that the managers though nowadays you
see there are a lot of oldschool guys around Thompson and Philly, Yeah,

(54:04):
Dusty Baker, Dave Roberts, youknow guys you've been around, and
these guys are having the success oftrying you see him, They're wanting to
play this more. Even some ofthe teams are built to play small ball,
right, so maybe that's in theback of their mind. But but
you don't see a lot of it, do you, guys? I can
spring training. Are you seeing teamsnow they's work on the bunning, still

(54:25):
hitting and run, hit and runany of that stuff. Nothing. No,
I've seen a couple of guys that, I mean, our minor league.
Now they do it as they canrun a little bit affect our number
one pick, Crawford's son. He'sgonna be really good. I mean,
this guy's sitting about three twenty fiveand clear water left handed hitter, got

(54:45):
some pop. He's still not bigyet, but he's gonna you can see
he's gonna grow. I see himdropping buns. He goes in a half
year and practices every day. Butagain he's coming from a guy that had
a lot of success at the biglegs. I'm sure his dad's, hey,
you got to do some of thisstuff. I know we're not going
to say you're going to get singlesbecause this guy can drive the ball.

(55:06):
But he's always working on his game, which it really impresses me because he's
still really young and he's, likeI said, this is his first year
in a ball a full season,and he's killing it right now. But
he's a kid that asks questions andyou can see he's come from a background
where guys his dad taught him,Hey, this is how you do this.
And it was fun to see.Yeah, And I first actually learned

(55:30):
that being at Delaware. Actually Iplayed with Vuke's son, Vince Okay,
yeah, this came down, youknow, and Luke would come down and
talk and just see you could tellhow Vince carried himself when Frank Cohn was
there as well, coming down andjust being able to actually to see these
guys and being around You're right though, the people that around, especially to

(55:50):
play minor league all even they playedthe big leagues, played in the Triple
A all the you know, youkind of see that and you get to
pick up that feeling of understanding ofwhat it takes right, because Okay,
if I act that way, allright, they were just that close.
What do I need to do alittle bit better? Right? And I
think that form and molds these guys. And I'm sure you can tell even
I mean, can you tell justsitting there watching the game going that guy's

(56:13):
had some professional help, He's hadguys around him that if kind of yeah,
you can't tell. I used thephrase effect that got one of the
analytic guys. One day. Hewas sitting with me watching a game and
there was a guy on another teamand I went, that guy's a gamer.
And he looked at him, hegoes, what's a gamer? I
said, A gamer? Is thisguy? Don't make too many mistakes.

(56:34):
He knows the situations, he knowswhere to be. He's always in the
right place at the right time.They used to be a compliment when a
guy told you, hey, man, this guy's a gamer. Said you
had that label you played the gamehard. He's a game Kevin mess Is
a gamer. That was a compliment. I used that phase and the guy
looked at me, like, whatdo you mean a gamer? What's the
game? This guy stands out thestuff he does, doesn't. He's not

(56:54):
hitting a lot of home runs,but he's doing all these other stuff,
making good plays, going first tothird on balls on the scoreboard, we're
down five runs. He's breaking itdown, not running with reckless abandon when
he's up. He's trying to makethings happen. Those guys. That's hard
to teach that. And when yousee that with minor niggers coming up,
you really appreciate that and you respectthe guy saying, hey, this guy's

(57:15):
got an idea how to play.Yeah, yeah, you know it's you
see do you see anybody nowadays kindof your style play? Do you ever
do you see anybody a Larry Boisstyle player nowadays? Or is that kind
of gone by the waystide. Iwatched some video on this Wilson kid.
His dad played for Pittsburgh, theshort stuff. He who's a high pick.
I think he won the first five. And I watched video on him.

(57:37):
You could tell his dad talking abouthim play. His dad never hit
home runs. But this kid hasgot some bob but he does things the
right way. They showed some videoof him. You're playing in college with
a man on second. You seehim trying to hit the ball the other
way. I like stuff like that. We have a couple of middle infielders
in clear Water now that I watch, and they're doing little things. So

(57:59):
I think, like I said,I think the game is coming back a
little bit because you're gonna need thosekind of guys to get the big boys
their RBIs and the home runs andthings like that. I always try to
tell these little guys, if youhit at top of the order, don't
have a goal of hitting three hundred, don't have a goal of stealing.
Tell you I want to score onehundred runs. You score one hundred runs

(58:20):
and you're leading off, You're doinga whole lot of good things, and
the guys behind you are doing Theyhave damnage. So if you're a little
guy that can run a little bit, don't worry about all that stuff.
I want to score a hundred runs, and you'd be surprised that guys will
score a hundred runs. Man.They do a lot of things, right,
yeah, but you don't you know, you know, you don't see
a lot of that, you know. So we got workloads now, we

(58:40):
don't let guys play every day.That's enough going. You're gonna be kidding
me. Man. If I gotthree hits on a Sunday and Monday,
I'm not playing because they said yougot a workload, I'm going in there.
Are you kidding me? I'm startingto feel good, man. I
want to play every day now.If I'm over twenty five and you want
to give me a day off,okay, but don't don't pull them me

(59:00):
out on a three for four whereI swear some balls up. But again,
it's all over baseball. They wantto make sure you're strong going down
the stretch. And it's it's aphilosophy. It's a different philosophy now.
And that's just like I said,that's why it's hard for me to just
be able to sit there and watchyou know, and I said good in
Texas, well, I watched thatteam they play the game. You can

(59:23):
see boats rubbing off on this team. The way they approached the game.
It's fun to watch. And Dustyto say, hey, last year,
uh, Dave Roberts. Even ourguy Thomps Thompson. Yeah, he's been
in the minor leagues for so long, been with the Yankees. You can
see that rubbing off and hey,come on man third and play. We

(59:44):
want to put in play here.We got a man on third. I
don't care if you had the twooperas put in play makes up nappen.
But that's such good to see.It really is good to see. Yeah,
and that's what's that's what's fun witheverything. That's the best part.
That was the best, you know, growing up when we had two leagues.
I was a naturally guy with Philliesfan growing up being able to watch
pictures hit doing that stuff just becauseit was it was fun. You had

(01:00:07):
to. It was a chess match. Now it's yes, And I don't
know if any of the pictures thatyou played with it could actually hit wait,
who could I'm trying to think whocould hit back? Rick was the
guy we traded for Carlton. Hehit two home runs and through no he
hit her a perfect game in Cincinnatiagainst a big red hit Carlton can swing
a little bit too, so butthat was fun though watching pictures hit.

(01:00:28):
Now they don't, they don't evenwhich you know what. I didn't like
that, but now I said,you know a pictures don't care about it.
And plus they blow out their hammy'srunning from the first to break the
family're trying to bunt, keep themkeeping the dug out, Let them go
out there and pitch. Yeah.Yeah, so I hope, so hopefully
there there will be some some somechange. But you know, like you

(01:00:49):
said, you hope it's more towardsour style of play a little bit.
You don't bring it back all theway. Yeah yeah, And I'm sure
you get questions from fans and stuffwalking around. I said, hey,
yeah, and seeing that, so, I mean, one of these fans
of Philly, as you well know, they like the style back. They
even like the O eight team.Those guys hitting ran, they stole bases,
that wasn't that far that far removed. They liked that. And I

(01:01:13):
think you're gonna see it with ourteam. You saw it last year.
In the second half, we doa lot of stealing bases, and we
got some big boys that if theyget hot here, we got a chance
to be back where we were lastyear. So it's gonna be fun the
second half, yeah, for sure, with the trade didline coming up and
everything else. So, I mean, but you're and I was on a
show earlier, were talking about thedog. Here's the dog nas here they

(01:01:34):
are six weeks of you can seethe light. But then this is what's
really going to separate everybody. Sothe Phillies are what sitting in third place
right now? Yeah, we're inthird place, like we're a game out
of the wild card. I don'tthink it catch Atlanta. I mean,
I'm not saying you can't. They'rehitting on all cylars right now. But
I think we're gonna be a easynot easy, but we're gonna be in
the wild Card. And as youwill know, it's not how good you're

(01:01:57):
playing. It's not who you're playing, it's how good you're playing. In
the Philies last year they caught fireMan at the end. Because we can
do that again. And you gotWheeler and Nola at the top. Who
knows what can happen. Yeah,depending on what you know, what moves
are going to go out and make. I mean, you can be the
best team in baseball. I mean, look at the best team in hockey,
the Bruins. We're out in thefirst round of the playoffs because of
because of a wild card team inthe Florida Panthers. So I mean it's

(01:02:20):
you know, you know with everything. Yeah, so uh is haul back
now that left the falls back?Okay, he cut some big time pop
ye Bree Hoskins. People don't realizeget on base goody, good guy in
the clubhouse, works hard when hegets hot, man, he's hard to
get out. I think they reallyappreciate what he did because he hasn't played

(01:02:45):
all year. He blew out hisknees. So hopefully help him. I
know he's a free agent. Ifwe don't sign him, someone's going to
sign him. He's a good kid, and he works hard, and he's
a big bat in the middle ofthe lineup. Yeah. Yeah, I
had a chance. Just when youguys in town opening, Dad just talked
with Bryce right right, yeah,because we were I talked to him a
little bit about just you know what, and he's like i'ms he's gonna rehab.

(01:03:07):
He goes now, I'm just gonnacome back. And um as he
actually throwing yet, I haven't seen. I haven't seen, just DG and
still Yeah, you're talking about HalHe's no, No Harper is Bryce back
throwing. The rumor has it they'vebeen away Now that after the break he's
supposed to play first base, we'regonna see. We're gonna say he's been
taking a lot of groundballs over there, so we need him out there because

(01:03:30):
then you can get schwove off hisfeet him DH yeah, Shorge DH.
And he's dangerous up there. Buthe's played every game. Man, I'll
that feel. That's tough. Oh, I'm sure it's I've seen he's struggling
a little bit right now with it. But you know, you know,
I trust chicken Head was my hittingcoach in the Arizona fall. Leg It,
old Kevin Long was my hitting coach, so and talk with him and

(01:03:52):
stuff. Yeah, yes, Soseeing that and getting knows it looks it
seems like Castianos is going pretty wellright now too. So I like our
team, right, I really justuh boom, we'll get we'll get our
shorts up going a little bit becausehe's a lot better than a two fifty
hit or as we all know.So yeah, it was you know,
I remember in the beginning of yearit was a struggle watching some of those

(01:04:14):
games. Oh gosh. It sortof reminds me of this year. We
start playing better the last four weeks. But early in the year, man,
we were struggling. But now itseems like hitting on all cylinders.
So yeah, so you get whatabout two weeks trade deadline, so they'll
be it'll be interesting to see whathappens here. There's a lot of guys
Dad can so yeah, absolutely,so it'll be interesting that to see.
And uh, like I said,you're getting ready for to start the second

(01:04:36):
half and everything else. So yeah, but like I said, I appreciate
you jumping on today, Larry andhaving Uh, I appreciate it. Thanks
versations and talking about this and likeI said, well, uh, we'll
definitely have to if I get upin the town, come up and come
up to a game or whatnot.But you're living in the area and joining
it and stuff, so I'll beglad. Great, So yeah, man,
I appreciate it. Like I said, good luck to your phillies.

(01:04:58):
And maybe we'll have a Rangers PhillyWorld Sandy Straight for sure, Yeah,
absolutely so, but I think Iappreciate it. Thanks Larry,