Mark Clayton – Former NFL Athlete & Entrepreneur

Former NFL wide receiver Mark Clayton joins Mench to discuss his path to the NFL and more importantly, kids and how to coach them properly. Mark also discusses the product line his company LIVV Headphones will be releasing early next year. Do they make a size big enough to fit Mench's big head? Listen to find out!


A special thanks to our sponsor Herman Marshall Whiskey. Built from the grain up. Just like good whiskey should be.
www.hmwhiskey.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Guys, Kevin Ment here on theBig Headpot, just sitting down, sitting
here thinking about some of the whiskeythat we've been been Privy two being a
part of a sponsor here on ourshow, Herman Marshall Whiskey. You guys
get a chance to drink this stuff, try it out. The single malt
is by far the best one theyhave. There's four kinds. They have
a single malt, they have ablend, they have a bourbon, they

(00:22):
have a rye. The order Iwould go in as a single malt,
by far, I just found this. Don't ever try and take this from
me. I might have to beathere at the bottle, then the rye,
the blend, and then the bourbon. This stuff is phenomenal, Texas
made and Texas produced. Here,guys, this is stuff is unbelievable.
So if you get a chance todo it, go grab yourself a bottle.
This stuff is amazing. Hey,Welcome to another edition of the Big

(00:50):
Head Pot here on the dub Network. Today's guest is an entrepreneur, former
NFL wide receiver, former boomer soonerand and I don't know if you claimed
Oklahoma or you claim in Texas nowso mister Mark Clayton and the younger of
the Mark Clayton's not Clayton, duperMark Clayton. Mark Clayton, Oklahoma looked

(01:11):
out what twenty five years younger thanthat Mark Clayton. About I was doing.
I was just doing a little homeworkwhen I saw that, And I'm
like, hey, there's no wayMark is sixty two years old. But
when I first when I first sawthat, so you know, doing doing,
doing a little homework and just tryingto catch up and see. So

(01:33):
if I was, I let whatI was taking and then I was seeing
you to my link. Hey,we all need it right because we put
our bodies through playing everything else.So for sure, look at you.
What you look like you're drinking rightnow? What do you got going?
We'll have to get you some ofour Herman Marshall. That's what I'm drinking
right now. One of our HermanMarshall was our sponsor of ours. They're

(01:56):
building their place up in Wiley,a big old outdoor distiller, about twenty
thousand square foo distillery in the processright now, So I have to get
you some. I'm headed up thereon this week to grab some. Just
let me know what you're like.We'll talk after a little bit of see
what you like, and I'll bringyou something back for sure. So um
yeah, this is my first onedoing it, A little nighttime conversation.
Doing it usually during the day.I don't want to be doing that because

(02:19):
I'll fall asleep. So um yeah, So so Dot a little homework.
All you born in Oklahoma, goto high school in Texas, and then
go back to college in Oklahoma.How did that come about? Man?
So born? I mean we movedto Texas because, uh well, mama,

(02:40):
So I grew up in the roughwairin North Highlands, Oklahoma. Anybody
that is Oklahoma knows the Highlands.And uh my mom was like, um,
we're changing, we're changing. Storylike she had, we had to
get out of here, but Ithrew a fit. I did not want
to go at all. I lovemy friends where I was at and it
was very comfortable. So she letme stay for one more year and uh,

(03:05):
man, after getting in trouble inschool, you know, three more
times. That's all the tag myuncle like, it didn't it didn't.
I got ship in the middle ofthe school year till Texas and uh went
to boarden elementary and in Arlington,Texas. So you were young man at
this time. Okay, yeah,I was young, just a young We

(03:29):
all aren't that, you know,especially you know at that age our friends
we get into all kinds of troubleand everything. Oh yeah, no doubt,
no doubt. I just I mean, I'm should nobody got in trouble
for having a gun in school inelementary. So you come down here to
Arlington, Sam Houston, right,yeah, which is in another and is

(03:49):
that play? Is that one ofthe or the tougher schools down there in
Arlington for what I've gathered, Yes, yeah, yeah, so we yeah,
end up there. We had shotthere one day I go in school,
and so there was unfortunately two shootingsat the school while I was in
those four years I was there,and one of them, I go,
I walked them walking into the schoolin the morning and the kid run like

(04:11):
runs by kind of the crowd thatI was in, chasing another kid with
a gun. And it was likehe's saying, like like he really just
ran by with like what the hillis going on? But no, yeah,
it was a little it was alittle rougher, you know, of
the schools, you know, andall ex but you know, we had

(04:32):
just a lot of kids that tryingto figure it out on their own,
uh, not a ton of guidanceat home. And you know, you
what do you do? You know, you follow the crowd. And so
I was. I was fortunate thatyou know, my mom, stepdad the
time they were you know, forwhatever reason, I get to Texas and
things changed. Everything just changed.Mentality change, just change. Probably just

(04:58):
get the water red River. Butmy parents were something like that like that.
It was like a mix, likeI said, a base and then
the Texas water was like the perfectmixture that likes it out. But yeah,
my parents were you know, prettypretty hard on me, and it
kind of I needed it, andso it was it was a great you

(05:19):
know, equalizer and slowed me downand you know, I was able to
do well in school and get on. Were you always a football guy or
did you play multiple multiple I knowsometimes some schools kind of pigeonhole guys to
playing one maybe two sports. WhereI grew up up in the East Coast,
so I played. We had differentseasons, I know down here it's
different. So were you just afootball guy or do you do other sports?

(05:42):
Other sports? So I was inhigh school, did I was football,
basketball, on track. But asI got into my junior year,
my basketball coach told me I neededto pick one. Actually, he was
more like, you should go toyou should go to football because I'm not
gonna play just you know, Okay, Well then why did you answer what

(06:06):
I wanted to move? Tell youruncle indeed like yeah, thanks, so
yeah, yeah, it was prettyinstrumental and helping me or picked my path.
Did you run a track? Didyou run track in college? Well?
Or just just football when you goin Oklahoma? It was just football

(06:27):
in college. Yeah, so youknow, and a lot of the attempt
well my my doing other sports andthen attempts at other sports was really just
to get away from all seasons.Yeah, you know when football season run
around, I definitely I was tryingto be in basketball and I was,
and then basketball season I got inthe track. I even tried you know,
tennis and baseball, which you know, I was okay, But hey,

(06:58):
that's a good thing though. Imean, different guys, uh,
you know, play different the sportsthey've tried it out and everything else.
And but you know what, Ithink it helps collectively as far as the
mindset of you know the way thingsmove right, and just being able to
do different things. I've I've coachedsome kids, a couple of kids in
particular, that can run. Theycan that they love baseball and they love
football. You know, they canthey can go either path, right,

(07:21):
they have that right said, handeye coordination. That's that's difficult. And
I'm sure tennis probably the same thing, especially if guys are hitting the tennis
ball one hundred plus miles an hour. It's not very easy either, not
at all. That's one of theyou know, I mean, I'm sure
you have these talks. You know, greatest athletes all time, so,

(07:41):
yeah, talks, and it's youknow, I'm they got to be the
guy who we can throw in anysport and for the most part, farewell,
we're going to compete, Yeah,compete. Yeah, being there like
it, it looks like if youspent five years doing this, I could
see exactly. Yes, you're you'reyou're an athlete, right basically is what

(08:03):
people can do. Yeah, you'llyou'll struggle, but you're going to be
competitive, right, And I thinkthat's what separates those the elite athletes is
when even as a kid, right, you're out doing stuff I can't play
basketball, but I'm going to beon the court. I can't make a
jump everything, my elbow is alwaysout ball, but I'm out there at
least trying to compete. Right,I'm not going to drop thirty on anybody,
but I'm going to compete. Sobut you come on to my playing

(08:24):
field, right, it's going tobe a different story. But that was
the balance that you know that wehave as kids, right. You know,
I hated running. I couldn't runtrack. I don't. I never
understood why I had to run sixtyyard dash. I run ninety feet and
turn left right. And if Ihave to run that far in the outfield,
somebody else is going to be goingto get it. And that's what
I could. That never understood,but you know that. But that's just

(08:45):
how we are though. That's thatcompetitive nature that that creates it. So,
I mean, it's you know,seeing that and and it seems like
you use sports to get out ofwhatever the situation was you were in,
you know, to trying to guysrunning down the hallway. I needed you
so so so in high school,you know, colleges come, the recruiters
are looking for you. You knowwhy Oklahoma. Why not, you know,

(09:07):
but in Alabama or Miami or somethingto that because it was home for
you or it was partly that,but I'll tell So, you know,
you just said about using sports toget somewhere, and so in my mind
it wasn't. I didn't, youknow, I didn't get recruited really in

(09:28):
football until my senior year. Igot my first letter going until my senior
year. UM. I was aquarterback on junior varsity UM, and so
I was like, I'm I'm probablynot gonna, you know, go play
college anything basketball or football. SoI was I was set to enroll in
the service and enrolling the Air Forceor you know, I wanted to be

(09:50):
an Air Force UM, and youknow, and then they're recruiting started to
happen, and so I was like, I was, I was gonna use
there for to just get somewhere stable, to do something that I wanted to
do. I was really big inarchitecture engineering, and so I felt like
going to there for us and learnhow to you know, fly was it

(10:11):
was something that I was really lookingto get into and be an architect would
be ideal. And then recruiting happened, and that just flipped the scriptum and
opened the door to a whole newpossibility outside or past high school. And
man, those you know it wasit was. It was amazing to have

(10:31):
all the coaches come and you know, pitch and telling about their school was
the best in life. You know, I should go here and not there.
Um. And then at the endof the day, what I saw
at Oklahoma because I wasn't I wasan NBA guy, like basketball was my
love. Football I watched, Iwatched the NFL, but college I really

(10:52):
didn't know much about college ball.I knew it from the Bowl Gangs,
but I didn't know college of ballum. But man, when I started getting
recruited Oklahoma, the thing I sawI was a Mike Leach offense. Yeah.
And you know, as a receiver, you're you're turning on the TV
and essentially they're throwing the ball,you know, sixty times a game.

(11:13):
That was attractive, very attractive.So then so that you know, the
recruiting, the recruiting process start,you know, after your junior year.
But a lot of guys too,you'll hear stories of you know, you're
out you're running track, right,You're running out running a hundred and there's
this somebody's there and they see it. Wait, who is this guy?
This guy just ran you know,the second off world record pace of one

(11:35):
hundred Is he what other sports ishe doing it? Maybe this guy can
is he's doing? Is that?Is that something that came about or was
it just throw football alone? Itwas through football alone? Uh, it
was because we also had a guynamed Shoda Mitchell, and at that time
it was he was a number Iwant to say, three or four player
in the state, athlete could playmultiple positions, and was was the you

(12:00):
know ten five hundred guys four lowfull four four three guy um that everybody
would come to see. And thenthey saw the little scrony kid over there
who starting to make a player too. Uh. You know, I was
like, man, you know whowas that kid? And you know,
I was fortunate to be in theoffense that we threw the ball quite a

(12:22):
bit and so I had a lotof opportunity and was able to capitalize on
it. But a lot of thoseeyeballs really came from you know should I.
I mean we had him our quarterbackBrandon House who ended up on a
TCU who you know, well recruitedand so man. A lot of their
you know, attention that they gotallowed me to to be seen. And

(12:46):
I would say coach o Z twobecause he was a lot of he was
huge. He was big on makingsure everybody went to school. Um,
and so we had a lot ofguys, you know, just whether D
two like any school like. Hemade a lot of guys aside and go
to school because he was he wasa real big time champion for all of
this. He seemed like he wasvested in you guys more than just the

(13:09):
football side of the tribe. Youknow, you know, developments beyond the
football field. But I think alot of that gets lost with kids these
days of everything's about that. Youknow, I'm they're out everybody needs to
come see me right now. Andthat's how I got put on the map.
I was as a sophomore in collegeand a junior in college, Carlos

(13:30):
Pain, you ended up be ina first round pick. But I had
a great game there and they said, you know, that's kind That's what
put me on the map was themthey're not watching me kind of like you
know what you're saying. I'm I'mjust out here doing my job. But
hey, these guys are gonna helpme, but you're not thinking that way.
You're just out doing your job.And here it is, and now
you get this opportunity. So youget an opportunity to to go home,

(13:50):
basically right back to Oklahoma. Imean, what was that like, knowing
signing that letter of going, hey, I'm going home, you know,
telling your parents and everything else.Man, Um, it was, it
was, it was. It wasa blur. I would say that it
was a blur. Uh, youknow, I was. I was very
uh, emotionally immature when it cameto expression, like I was. I'm

(14:16):
still I don't express much, youknow today, but still at that time,
it was just like, man,this cool. I'm getting to go
to Oklahoma and play in the passingoffense. Um. And I have a
ton of family in Oklahoma City.My dad had eleven brothers and sisters and
so there's cousins on cousins and cousinsmy mom's side, you know all that.

(14:37):
But in my I didn't think aboutthat. I thought about getting to
go and catch these walls, likebeing his offense and you know, really
do what I'm enjoying. Um.And so getting there was I was happy
go lucky. Uh also wasn't expectingto go there, and so there was

(14:58):
some um, real grace that Ifelt in that and some real like man,
I'm I'm not supposed to be here, but I am, so let's
get it to make it count.Um. And so that that that set
the tone for me not feeling somuch pressure going in there and be yourself

(15:20):
around around people that you probably hadn'tseen in a while, especially friends coming
and here you are coming back.But it seems like you you took it
in strike because sometimes people will thepressure of everybody around wanting your tension.
Right, you're here trying to focuson football and everybody mark mark right,
everything is is this. But itseems like you were able to kind of

(15:41):
draw that line to be able tofocus on football when you needed to and
the family and friends side on youknow as well. Yeah I would.
It was a nun factor, bro. Like I when we went to Texas,
I mean, you know we werein Texas, Um, you know
my cousins and everything there's because youknow, and I was like, man,

(16:02):
I think that my cousin they gotClayton like in their in Oklahoma and
they're probably my cousin UM. ButI was being in Norman with I was
so isolated. I'll say, likeit that was, you know, and
I would say my mom did agood job of, you know, kind
of being the no person for mea lot, especially in the NFL,

(16:26):
but uh, man, I was. I was pretty pretty isolated when it
came to that. I didn't haveto deal with a lot of the pressure
of having to tend to friends orbe something for somebody in there, or
deal with their expectations of me becausethey felt like they were attached to like
they had rights or I was obligatedbecause we have this relationship your family,

(16:48):
like I didn't. I didn't dealwith that nine in college, a certain
nine college, which I'm you know, fortunate for um. But that's another
thing that I know, kids anda lot of people deal with kids today
because of the social media, UMand just they're connected with thousands of people
and you know, there's probably youknow, ten tifteen people within arms reach

(17:12):
that in some way for him straightform and fashion, they're kind of pulling
at him, which is I couldn'timagine doing exactly like, yeah, yeah
I could. I couldn't. I'mfortunate that I didn't, and staying and
staying away from that. We youknow, we played it, I think
at the right time because it seemedlike social media was picking up right when
we were you know, twenty andten eleven, right when it was,

(17:33):
which is because, like you said, the distractions that it causes, you
know, everybody, you know,hey that you know, it doesn't matter
what you do, even a conversationlike this, somebody can take a picture
right, a picture wrong, allof a sudden that look, you know,
look he's doing this, and that'sthe and and that's the problem.
It's almost as if you know it'syou. Hear coaches nowadays that we went
to a high school meeting and mykids are gonna be freshmen this year.

(17:56):
High school coach had get off socialmedia. The first thing he said,
you know, scholarships are because ofbecause you don't think about it until until
it's done, right. I mean, guys, you know there's guys you'll
see now something he said ten yearsago on there, you know, right,
it was it was a mistake asa kid, but is But but
it's amazing how they can use thisstuff, you know, you know,

(18:18):
to that to these kids, whatthey can use against them and everything else.
I mean, it's it's hard,right, You've got sounds like you've
got little ones. I do too, is trying to teach them that right
of that mentality that we had asis focused on what you need to do
and this right. These outside distractionscan be a problem. You know.
It seems like you, like Isaid, you handled that, you were

(18:40):
able to to do that. So, I mean, you know, playing
at Oklahoma right for Bob Bob stoopsfor for four years, I mean three
years, four years years at Oklahomaperfect, So you were that, I
mean not so playing their national championships, would you, guys, I'm not
one thing. I don't. Iwent to a one double A school,
so I refused to watch college footballuntil they get a playoff. When I

(19:03):
went, I went to Delaware,so and you played with Flacco, so
Joe was after me. Yeah,but we had sixteen teams in a playoff,
right and right now they have sixSo until they do that, I
refused to root for any college football. So but so that that's my that's
my college football feeling right there.But so you being in Oklahoma and that
playing in I mean, I don't, I don't even know, Like I

(19:26):
said that that area. You werethere, you talked to a little bit
about that, how it was dominant. It was amazing. So we were
so Coach Stops got there. Iwas in that his first recruiting class.
Uh, they did a change ofguard the year before, so he brought
Mike you know League and um MikeStoops and bri Venables and um Mangino and

(19:48):
Coach Long and Coach Hayes and Bibycheck Wright and like all those you know,
those guys for the next century,like eight years, well my my
four years there sure, um wherethey turned the program around and we got
back to what Oklahoma football was knownfor us and the you know six fifty
fifties, sixties and then in theseventies, late seventy in the eighties,

(20:12):
um, and to be a partof that, and I didn't even know
that they were like they had theyhad losing seasons, but before that,
you know, with coach Blake andShnoburg and it was it was it was
the Sooning Desert, you know atthat time. And then for coach Stuts
to come in and have us oneseason where I want to say first year
it had like eight wins, sevenor eight and then my freshman year.

(20:34):
We went on and we went tothe national championship Verse Florida State and we
won. And then that completely shiftedthe tide um and not only did coach
turn the culture and the program around. Now we're starting to get all these
you know, recruits and the toptop you know, everybody wants to come

(20:55):
up eight plus plus guys if allstarted out, yeah, yeah, the
cream of the crowd um. Andyou know again we go back, you
know, and we had a quarterbackinjury. By sophomore year, I got
injured and so only playing like twoor three games. But you know,
freshman year was was cool. Ihave like freshman all way twelve or whatever.
Sophomore short junior had come back,and then Jason White comes back after

(21:19):
his second touring ACL and then thatour junior season, it was like our
the biggest you know season, youknow, you like as QB receiver in
O youth football history, and Jasonwins the Heisman. I was a blitzing
the carp finalist um and you know, an All American, first team All
American and I lost the bulleting theCup to Larry fitz Drill, which is

(21:41):
awesome because he should go like he'scrazy. Um. And then that kind
of that was a big part ofthe setting Oklahoma up to be you know
the new QBU if you will,like we're gonna throw the ball all over
the place and we're gonna play goodheart d defense and Oklahoma's back uh um.

(22:03):
So it was it was great tobe a part of that changing of
the guard or you know, relike reigniting the program and a lot of
the championship history that was there andwe played. I mean, I was
fortunate to go to you know anOrange Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Rose Bowl,

(22:26):
uh, the Cotton Bowl, um, and great national championship. Was
that the like the thirteen the threegame or something was that against Florida State?
Okay, okay, I remember itwas weird? It was we two?
Was it a really weird scoring game? When that's my favorite seven?
I remember seeing that game. Soyep, defense Linse, we took a

(22:51):
safe Yeah, yeah, you knowit was That's and that's what I like,
I said, that's I mean,I remember you know watching that.
I mean, I'll watched some ofthe game games the uh were you part
of that the Boise State game?Where were you're already gone the hooking ladder
game and everything with it. Wasit out at the citrut was atta were
there? Yep? And that's well, I mean, that's that's the stuff

(23:14):
that you know, that I thatyou remember of, you know, the
different what programs do and everything else. But like you said, from where
he said it was a desert tohear, it becomes now it becomes this.
I know, it sounds a badlike a football factory though, right
They amount of guys that played atthe next level after college, I mean,
I mean, I'm sure it's gotto be a hundred guys that have
played while you were there to dothat, so, you know, so

(23:37):
but developing that you know you talkabout you know, your mom with and
your coach in high school of teachingworried about the school side of it,
and that could get lost, especiallyat a Division one level and a program
like where you are in Oklahoma,which is because you know we always you
always hear stories about it, rightunderwater basket weaving, right, you know,

(24:00):
fizzed for four classes and everything else. But I have the classes,
but I wanted to be an architectureengineer and I started off, you know,
and then it was like, man, you gotta work out like this
and no, no, I'm notdoing that. So I would end up
in communications. But then the lectis I was like, yeastball, Yes,

(24:22):
people don't What people don't understand isa friend of mine, actually she's
playing plays basketball. She walked onin Texas playing basketball and uh named Sarah
Grays and she wasn't gonna play andshe walked on. She goes, Man,
she goes, this is unbelievable.This is a full time job.
I said, yes, I said, you don't have time for anything else
but school and pratt and you're done. There's you know, if you you

(24:42):
don't have time to go out party, you don't have time to do it.
It's not social, it's not itbecomes it becomes a business. But
it's good and it's bad right atthat point, because it's you're focused on
what you want to do, butyou're also focused on like you talked about,
where you are. You're at Oklahomadefending national champions. Everybody wants a
piece of Mark Clayton. Hey,there's Mark Clayton. Right, You're in

(25:03):
class and you're not in class withfootball players all the time. There are
some classes, Like you said,you gotta take and it can be tough,
right, And people don't understand that, do they. They just see
the Mark Clayton on TV. Right, they see the Kevin mensh on TV.
But they don't see the other stuffof trying to dodge everything else,
trying to manage lifting and eat inthe nutritional side and trying to sleep and

(25:26):
recover it is and that's what peopledon't see that. And I think this
generation is lost in that whole mixof Hey, he's on TV, he
did that. I'm good, I'mI don't have to do this other stuff.
Right, But you seemed like youhad that mentality and that you seem
you're an old school guy like me. Right, It's it's it's the work.
It's the blue collar put your noseand go to work, right.

(25:51):
And it's so then you know,playing this, especially dealing with an injury
you know you talked about, right, because when you get hurt playing at
that level, you're worried about thenext guy coming up and take your you
know, the Wally Pip taking upyou know, the whole luke Garatbaby Ruth
everything all that, and now you'reinjured, you're coming back. So I

(26:11):
mean, what you get hurt.What what's your mentality at that point of
can I do this? Or isit something? You know what it is?
I was. I was young,dumb and full of cover exactly.
So when I got hurt, itwas just what it was. And there

(26:32):
wasn't no I'm not coming back likeit was what was the injury? So
my first was actually pretty made.So I had um knocked off a significant
chuck of carlage and so I wasbone on bone. Uh. And this
is my sophomore year. While Imissed the rest of the season. UM,

(26:52):
I said, hey, we havea new procedure called Michael French.
Uh. This is two thousand intwo thousand and one, and so nobody
I obviously I didn't have heard ofit. AM eighteen year old kid.
And they're like, yeah, Imean it's you know, it's fifty fifty.
Um, you know the results whereyou mean you you may be able

(27:14):
to get back and be good oryou may not. But UM, we
have the best doctors. It wasBrock Schnabel, who was Live Team doctor
at the time, UM and doctorMcGinnis, and so they were like,
um, hey we'll we'll do it. And my family, you know,
my mom and everybody's there, youknow, like, uh, you know,

(27:36):
I mean I will because I wouldn'table to. I couldn't run like
it was. It was pretty bad. And so we did it um and
that was it was like a sixmonth like a six month process because that
was the first I had to beoff of it. I was none way
better this week week okay, yeah, yeah, depending, I mean I

(27:56):
worked at a hospital for a whileand seeing that that surgery done, so
I've seen it done, yeah,say yes, and so no way of
bearing, which is like that's ohoh that was a big time. But
during that, you know, thefrustration of just not being able to do

(28:18):
it was was the thing that wasthe fire that was behind it. There
was never I'm not going to beable to do it, like in my
mind, and you know, I'myou know, I was one of the
guys who they would have to tellme, you need to slow down,
like dude, like you can't justkeep running like that, you can't just
keep cutting, like you can't justkeep doing this really like we got practice

(28:38):
tomorrow, actually got two practices tomorrow, like breast uh so going through rehab
and doing all that stuff, itwas I was just obsessive and just I
want to do extra all right,it's just some one always people and and
so early, you know, andI ain't got dealt with injuries similar throughout

(29:00):
all the way up until the endwhere it was like, of course,
of course I'm calling back. Ofcourse this just matters and I'm not going
to drop off. I'll probably betterafter this, and that mentality is just
that anymore. And it's in andyou're and it's you know, your age
has a lot lot to do withthat and the factors that go into that.

(29:21):
But you're right, you're your kid, and I can't be on my
leg for eight weeks. Right,you're a college kid. You've got you
know what do you know? Whatdo you do? So? You know,
so deal with that. You knowyou come back play two more years
too, Right, there's your sophomoreyear, so you miss most of You're
okay, Yes, you come backplay. You know now of a sudden,
you're a senior. You know thethe NFL. So was Josh White

(29:44):
your quarterback when you were senior orwas it uh Jason Jason? Okay?
Because I remember Josh Hibbell was thenext one, right? Was he the
next one? Uh? Yea.So it was Josh, Yeah, Josh
hype and they okay, what cookit? High pool is yeah, so
playing so so yeah, senior yearand everything else. You know, scouts

(30:07):
are there, You're thinking, areyou thinking NFL at this point? Are
you just are you still just Yeah? After my junior year, for sure,
we got uh, you know,the your letter, your grade,
your draft grade. We got ourdraft grades. And at that after my
junior year, I was like aone two and so me Jamal Brown was
a one two. Uh, JasonWhite had a good grade. Dan Cody

(30:27):
was also a one two UM,and Vince Carter considered leaving to he was
uh, he had a pretty goodgrade as well. And so this group
of you know juniors that were youknow, just really just really good,
you know leaders. I was sayingpretty much the captains, um, you

(30:49):
know, we were considering leading,and uh, Coach Dukes well actually we
coach dudes talked to us, butwe had all like kind of had our
own side meetings and just you know, we had lost to LSU UM fourteen
very close essentially at the same teamcoming back, and so it was like,
I think we should we just Imean, we stay, We'll go
back. So the stay running backwhen a bat and then we'll we'll ride

(31:12):
this thing out. And we did, and so everybody stayed. Dan stay,
jama State, Jason stayed. Uh, everybody stayed. And you know,
sure enough it was great because youknow that that spring or summer,
a kid named Adrian Peterson came,no idea that school on campus. It

(31:36):
was like, seems already awesome.But now you got this guy, I
think we're gonna be right there.We're gonna be all right. So yeah,
so I mean, you know,so you talk about that coming back
that senior year. Now the daysyou see a lot of these guys,
I'm not playing. I'm not gonnaplay in my bowl game because I'm worried

(31:59):
about injury and everything. Would thatit even crossed your mind, or would
one of your teammates slapped you upsidethe head and go, what in the
hell are you doing? This isa team you're trying to But you right,
you see that nowadays, guys,that's all you see. Oh I'm
not playing the boat. You justplayed twelve games. You know. Look

(32:20):
I see and I'm like, what, I'm not mad at it. I'm
like, I'm not mad at itin certain circumstance situations like I'm not mad
at it, and at the sametime, I think it's deal. It's
choice, you know, because ultimatelyyou have to live with you for the
rest of your life, you know, And that's you know, my son
is fifteen, he's about to bein the mix and so and I was

(32:44):
always like, I appreciate the factthat I was able even though I felt
like my guidance didn't have quite theexperience. Obviously, he's going to have
a lot more guidance from my experienceand you know, the community network that
I have versus that I had wayback in. But even in that regard,
it's still gonna be You're gonna makeyour own decisions. Like I'm gonna

(33:06):
give you what I think whatever,But at the end of the day,
it's on you. And I'm notmad either way. You got. I
love the period. They'll never change, um And so, you know,
I look at it and how itis today. I think a lot of
kids, did you know, hurtA lot of kids have hurt themselves,
a lot of college kids. Ireally have to deal with a lot of

(33:28):
the the the bruising, the brutalmentality because football is different, you know,
and there's a lot of injuries thathappened in college that UM you're you're
not. There's no collective burden inagreement. There's no UM therapy that's gonna
get paid for by the university.There's no after career care that's gonna come

(33:52):
to your aid. There there's noneof that UM. And so you know,
we obviously moving into where you haveyour NIL in addition to the transfer
portal and all is having to dowith the business of football and how on
the corporate side of college football.The ball has always been in their court.

(34:14):
They've benefited greatly, the kids thatbenefited greatly as well. But I'll
say there are you know, theninety seven percent of kids that don't go
on and go to the NFL.A lot of those kids how to deal
with a lot that's a lot ofpercent of the kids that are not going
to get a certain amount of youknow, dollars to kind of hedge their

(34:37):
transition into real world, into reallife. You know, somebody's in the
NFL. They hit pinch it andthey make it to three years and four
games. The majority will not.And so of the three percent, a
lot of them won't they're going toget you know, fizzled out as well.
And so it's like, man,the percent of that three percent that

(34:57):
doesn't quite make it in the NFLare still kind of dealing with some of
the stuff from college in addition tobeing a practice them for the most part
um in the NFL. And earlyain't a lot of support that's gonna come
there because you didn't quite make it, you know, to that that the
invested status. But there's some there'ssome somethings that are And so I'm like,

(35:22):
man, a kid today has moreknowledge about the business of the sport,
college and the NFL, and mehaving more knowledge about it back then.
If I saw it like that,who knows, I don't know.
I don't know, you know whereI would have been what I would have
chose, But I have to believethat I would have been more of a
businessman than a football. Naturalists andlawyalists like to the game like no matter

(35:47):
what, because that's what I was. I was. We're back, like,
um, I would play this gamefor free. I don't I don't
care. Yeah, like yeah,yes, I'm out here, Like what
must I didn't have an insurance contract? I had a first round second round
grade my junior year and I didn'tget an insurance contract go into my senior
year. It was just we're outhere, it's football, like we're playing

(36:09):
like whatever, let's let's get itum very risk now hungsight like yeah um,
and so my son would never dothat, Like that's not not like
period, but just thinking through ittoday, I just think the business of
the sport has made it downhill.It's made it into the homes and you

(36:30):
know, the athlete now and sotheir their thought process has and I think
should be different approaching the thing thatthey love to do, because you may
do that thing that you love todo, but it's only going to give
you so much, which is asmuch as you can give that and then

(36:50):
it will stop, like it willstop. And it's not a fine line.
It's so like fluid and you know, different situations, any different situations,
so many different family dynamic. It'sso much to it that I just
I see it and I'm like,man, I understand and I appreciate that
there are multiple options for kids todayversus you know, yesterda Yeah, And

(37:15):
you're right though, it's the itthe percentage of the less than one percent,
right, the even one that goon to play it's on a professional
contract. It seems like there shouldbe more focus to the college athlete,
whether whether or not you're the firstpick, or that your your chance is
still this slim. So it's almostthat you would think that these programs would

(37:36):
push the academic side of saying it'sit's so slim at least it kind of
steer them that direction to say,like you said, I mean you had
to you were held then on onon this, Yet I went this way
because it's and I think that wouldhelp athletes post career right that are done
that are like you said, thatdon't make it to be fully vested.

(38:00):
Now, now what do I doas opposed to I wish right right,
in hindsight, we all tell ourself, I wish I would have put more
towards the education side of it,knowing still I had the abilities to do
it. And you would think thatthat these unions would kind of figure this
part out and baseball. Baseball isa different animal in itself. I mean,
our union has been is the strongestin the world when when it comes

(38:21):
to this stuff that they stick together. But the guys that's tending to run
and understand that. You know,Baseball's not it's a it's a daily thing,
right, Football you have your oneday and then and then everything's gone.
Baseball it's we kind of have it'sit's every everything's a different animal.
But these guys don't seem to have. I think maybe it's the amount of

(38:44):
time that because we play so much, we don't have the time. Like
football, you have six days off, so that's a lot of time to
really, oh what can I doto kind of get away from this.
Baseball we don't really have that time. If if we're we're playing all the
time, and then if not,we're away from it and then we can
focus on something. Right, there'sthere's there's not that with baseball hockey.

(39:06):
Hockey players are just completely different outout of the box anyway. Yeah,
and basketball, I don't I'm assumingit's kind of the same way within Yeah,
as as basketball, they they thinkin terms of meshing what it is
entrepreneur professional athlete marketing like they Idon't know, they they kill they go

(39:35):
they kill it man. And youknow, looking at the player of ownership
now, which there's how many MLBplayers own parts of their teams probably made
probably zero. I mean, theyget into the other stuff, but not
owning. They've tried. You know, Jeter was a part of the mar
of the Marlins. I know alexUm but he's he's a rise bought but

(40:00):
actually he's bought. He's part ownerof the Timberwolves. So but it's not
on the baseball side. So Iso it's you know, I don't know,
it's it's it's weird. It's weirdthough, how guys are getting into
it, you know, but it'sbut I think that that helps some of
these teams too, at that professionallevel of player owners that have played that

(40:20):
you know that that are doing that. I mean you see they just Messy
just signed with Inner Miami. Soright now he's part owners. So that's
what you want. You want guysright that are vested in the sports that
they played in, because that's thepeople that the guys you want to teach
around. That's what's going to bringpeople to it, right, not not
a guy that lives here owning.You know, I know, you're European

(40:44):
soccer, right. They don't wantforeign owners. They don't want some American
owners over there because it has nothingto do with their culture and you don't.
But you don't see a lot ofthat hockey. You don't basketball,
I'm not sure of you see afootball really. I mean you kind of
have the same owners. I mean, you've dealt with it and he played,
you know, after playing the NFL, dealing with some owners and everything
else. I mean, so it'sit's it's tough dynamic that way. But

(41:08):
yeah, so I don't know,but maybe that'll help change the culture down
to the lower levels. I know, football doesn't have a minor league level
kind of like baseball does. UNBA started to. I don't know if
the NFL is that what they're using. The XFL, USFL is trying,
you know, trying, but it'syeah, so, I mean, so,

(41:30):
you know, so going playing playingthe NFL, play with so you
played with Flacco, right, Delawarekid, Yeah, yeah, right,
yeah, you know, he's fromAutumbon, New Jersey. Just everybody went
and he was at Pittsburgh he gottransferred to Delaware. I'm born and raised
from Delaware, so uh yeah,so yeah, and actually you never had
a chance to meet Joe, butyou know, and I was as I

(41:52):
was reading through you know, statisticsand stuff, the blind side came out
when you were playing, right,and so were you involved in any of
that stuff with the Michael or stuffor anything else. I just remember reading
about it. Yeah, you lookabout because you were I just I think
he was drafted I guess that yearoh nine or something whatever, and just

(42:12):
reading about it and stuff. Butyou know, so you know, you
know, playing being a wide receiverin the NFL, right, you know
you see these you know, yougo back to the days watching guys like
Ronnie Lott, Brian Dawkins, knowingthose guys are on the back end,
you know, being I mean,how big are you Mark? So you're

(42:37):
like, you're a Steve Smith guy. Here's a small guy. Go out.
Tommy McDonald perfect example, right,I've got a chance to meet Tommy
McDonald Boomer sooner, right, agreat receiver. He was five eight,
yes, but that mentality he hadit. So, you know, so
talking about that, knowing that onthe back end of these guys, what

(42:58):
is your mentality? You know,thinking of out that I've always wanted to
ask a wide receiver what their thoughtsare knowing these all your division Troy Paula
Malolo, No, Rock Clark,another guy, Ryan Clark, I was
more aware of where he was.Paulamalu was coming for the ball. Ryan

(43:20):
was coming for your head. Butyou knew it though, right there?
Is it just is that just somethingthat hey, you know coming into Lay,
Hey, this is your dealing withtwice a year. You better know
was it I think twenty five orsomething was his number or something. You
better know where he you know it, right, you better know where he
is. So I mean, sothat mentality, did that ever mess with

(43:43):
your psyche at all? Being areceiver in the NFL? Well, I
mean it can't. Message is psyche, you know, And in that regard,
it's more of a if I getit, I get it. You
know my deals like if I getsmack, at least I call the ball
like just ball, like take itthe ball. And you know I was

(44:04):
I was actually a defensive like growinglike getting in like my early years and
football was on defense and I wasI was a head hundred myself. So,
uh, I got footage way backin my day at Oklahoma exactly exactly,
oh man, well who we playing? Kid from Texas Tech? Second,

(44:30):
I was back when you could likesmack people from your serious position.
Uh. I had that was myonly knock I had a knock. It
was like, wow, like Ihave a real knock out. But no,
I was. I liked that,like I was kind of off like
that and I wanted it. Yeah, oh bro, it was you know

(44:52):
it was. I became who Iwas as a receiver after watching Peter Ward
work made people look really silly.He did all the It was like a
Reggie Bush or uh take on AustinShady McCoy um, you know who today
um a handful of guys. Anyways, But I got into making people miss.

(45:17):
But before that, I was alwaysabout that contact, like I love
that, and so that set thebase for I'm not worried. I ain't
worried about getting hit. I butI enjoyed making people. Yes, that's
fun, like that is that isfun. I didn't, but I also
didn't. You know, I'm gettinghit. That's and I've been knocked out.

(45:40):
Whatever, I knocked people out likeit is what it is that called
the territory. I ain't worried aboutthat. That's why I think great players
that are fairly fearless, they're kindof off, Like you got to be
kind of kind of off because youknow the possibility like and and and you
can't at the same time worry aboutit. I grew up an Eagles fan,

(46:01):
so but the Shawn Jackson, samementality, same idea. Yeah,
that's just like what you gotta catchmeat period. Then uh so the Eagles
shoot Brian Dawkins. Yeah, Imet that man. He's a small man.
Brian's only about five eight five nine. He's just very nice. I

(46:21):
met him, a very nice,very personal guy. May but man,
weapon X those stories and seeing thatI remember because they never the Eagles Ravens
never really had that rivalry. Youknow, it was just because of different
divisions, you know, different conferencesstuff, and I just you know,
I remember those you know, growup Delaware either go to Baltimore or you're
a Philly fan. I was,and I was an Eagles fan growing up,

(46:44):
So that's why. But you know, but but but seeing that,
and just have always wondered, youknow how guys I mean, because you
know, growing up we used towatch the Ronnie Lotts, right, those
guys that would just come through anddidn't matter, you had just better duck.
And you talk about those the videos. I sent a video to Isaiah
Stamback the other day about that showedsome of the college hits working. I

(47:06):
mean, guys are getting blown up. I thought it was helmets, it
was the actual getting yep. Butbut and that those days are gone.
But you know, but and Iand I get it, you know the
business side of it that you knowyou're trying to protect players. But at
the same time too, it's anoccupational hazard, right. But if your

(47:27):
guys are gonna be stupid with it, I just in baseball they're gonna be
stupid with it. You can't changekick them out of the league, tell
them they're done right the same,don't change the rules just right. So,
I mean you've that mentality. Areyour thoughts better off on kicking?
You know? The suspensions are justchanging your rules in general. I've always

(47:47):
always wanted because I'm an old schoolguy, Like we used to be able
to run the catcher. You usedto be able to take a guy out
a second base cleanly, doing itthe right way. And if you did
it the wrong way, you letthe players handle it, or you just
spend them and kick or kick themout right, you don't there's no second
chances, right, this is it'sa business. But you respect somebody so
what you know your thoughts on that. So I think I think man I

(48:15):
would have appreciate the fact that clean, big hits stayed in the game.
Um. You know, the himand to him a deal gets a little
murky. But um, you knowpart of it, Yeah, occupational hazard.
And I'm you know, I'm I'mfrom school. Uh if I signed
up to you know, go workon electric power lines, Um, I

(48:40):
get it like I could die,like it's very possible. Um. And
so I signed up to go playfootball you could get it knocked out like
it is very possible. Um.And you know I I hear, I
mean, I understand where it's likethey want to protect the product. I

(49:01):
want to protect my product As abusiness owner, similar, you know,
you want to protect the product.What the product would be, you know,
to last, you know, aslong as possible. With this regard,
Um, there's something something too.So somebody getting knocked out that is
gladiator esque, that is different fromevery other sport on the planet. Um,

(49:24):
I'll say hockey is in that inthat vein, and I like how
hockey does it to be honest,Um, you know, the hits are
there, I mean, and ifit's some egregious. That is truly egregious.
I think you handle it, youknow, from from from up top,
um, but I think there's aplace for the physicality that is dangerous

(49:47):
in which that is what makes footballfootball. Um. I'm okay with protecting
quarterbacks. You know, that's Iget it. I like, you know,
the Tom Brady rule. Great,love the time, love time,
but I mean the guys are gettingblocked into it trying and they're hitting to
their knee and it's a pell Imean, you don't I get it,

(50:08):
but it's it's frustrating, but it'sespecially for you, I'm sure. Yeah,
yeah, because we were I meanthat was that was a part of
the when of the games out thatwas in you know, and so yes,
but uh, I mean I getI get where they come from.
A quarter you know, I wouldn'twant my quarterback to go out. And

(50:31):
if we had a time Brad,if I was good at Tom Brady like
obviously, well yeah, let's protectour quarterback. Appreciate your owners for deciding
to make sure the quarterbacks are good. But let the you know, you're
you're your your speed and power,powerful guys like I'll let them do what

(50:52):
they do. Like that didn't getafter it and the quarterback. I think
there if the quarterback puts himself inhis way, he's liable to smack in
which I like that they do that. You know, quarterbacks that are running
and you you ain't giving up,and you you in the floor that like
you you can get it, likeyou you should get it because it's football.

(51:15):
And if if you're out of thatpocket and you're starting to you know,
do your thing. I think there'sand I like how um I can't
recall a play, but I knowa quarterback got hit pretty once. It
was Jaalen Hurts last year. Yougot smacked pretty good on the sideline and
you know they they want them tocall flag or not, but no flag.

(51:37):
It's a good clean hit. Jaalin'srunning Jaylem, you know, he
he welcomed it and it didn't goin his favorite and he got up.
You know. But I just Ilove the physicality of the game. I
think that's absolutely what next the game. The game. Um it is still
a beautiful game. But that's oneof the things that you know probably obviously

(51:59):
there's biased there. Uh and youknow, me being a receiver at the
same time, steel is like,yeah, let let don't take any more
physicality away from what it is likeyou we're about maxed out? Yeah?
Where where where we could go interms of stand away from flag football?

(52:22):
That mean I the defensive receiver thing? You see that? Guys? Are
I get? You know? Ican? What you know? My biggest
thing in football? You're taught totackle somebody? What do you what's the
what's the basic rule tackling? Seewhat you hit? Correct? What do
you see? But what do yousee a lot of this get putting the
head down, which causes a lotof I worked with a spine started forever

(52:43):
spinal spinal injuries of seeing that.But and you're taught that from the youth
level. Right, I'm sure yourson has been taught that the tack But
why did they insist on the helmetdown type of tackles? Do you want?
I mean, have you ever askedanybody that question? Why? Why?
That's all you see? I get? I get trying to not knock

(53:04):
the ball loose, but I stillwant to see the ball. A lot
of teams are taught punching the football. Others are taught just you see them
put their head down? What youknow? Have you ever had that discussion
with any the defensive with the defensiveplayer about why the head gets put down
at all. No, I don't, but I feel like there's a sense
of safety for the defender to kindof um cover up if you you know.

(53:32):
I don't not that. I don'tsay you feel more secure to launching
if you and that you're going todeliver a bigger blow. But I just
I mean, I remember what justwhat it felt like to to kind of
launch or to to go right perfectlyinto somebody like right through here and their

(53:55):
their body just go lay flat likeit is. It's amazing. I'm sorry,
h and and it is one ofthose ones where you you kind of
ball ball up up top and justyeah, I get turned in the head.
But you see a lot of themjust to head down. I mean,
like you talk about weapon as that. When Brian and Dawkins hit Algie

(54:16):
Crumpler in the FC an NFC Championshipgame, coming across he hit Algae just
straight shoulder chest and it was likeAlgae hit a hit a brick wall.
But seeing that, yeah, itjust yeah, but that's what I mean.
Those are guys, they knew howto hit hard, but they knew
how to do it, you know, do it the right way. Yeah

(54:37):
that everybody's not composed and similar toyou think everybody is that good of an
athlete in the league, but you'reright, they're not. You know,
they're not like they can't process thatin that moment at as fast as other
guys. And then his precisely youknow where they're where the target is.

(55:01):
But your Monday morning quarterbacks here sittinghere going, man, he could have
done this, done that, doneand hear you would saying right right,
exactly right. So all right,So on this subject, was there one
time in your career, college,high school, professional that you got hit
that really sticks out in your mind? The one that you just if you

(55:22):
could take it back, you wouldhave just you would have you would have
beard left as opposed to right.Is there anything that sticks out? And
everybody has that moment of where youjust man, you know? So the
one one where I was I wasout and going in the wrong direction was

(55:45):
actually on the own side. KickYou're frying the hands team hands team man
like right and oh man, dude, okay, and it was like the
ball it um my what was inphrase? Got it got down and I

(56:07):
was still I was coming to curehim, and I called it like right
in my face mask it was.It was bad. It was bad.
That wasn't that one knocked me.I was to it. I had to
get somebody had to like, youknow, help me get back to where
we were at. It was justbefore the concussion protocols and everything else where
they'd have been spotted like yeah,somebody go get Clayton off the field right

(56:30):
now. Yeah yeah, no,no, no spoders, none, none
of that. None of that wasYeah, good thing it was in the
end. But oh my gosh,you those story I've always wondered about those
guys, man that just remember Iremember the days of like a Chuck Cecil
the gunners that just oh yeah,we had to do a crash uncle.

(56:53):
What I mean, I can't imaginethe mentality that those guys had. Those
are the dudes and it probably husthey go run through that wall, and
they're you don't have to finish thesentence type of stuff. No, no,
yeah, those those dudes that hadhad a brain, but they only
use like they might as well haveplayed without a helmet on at that point.

(57:15):
Probably wouldn't. Yeah, and you'reright, you know, so all
the talk about the hit all theseyears are playing, was there ever one
guy that really stood out above anybodyelse as far as you know the game,
the way they played the game,you know, the knowledge of the
game, understanding that like I said, just a nod, but also the

(57:39):
football mentality, like the football instinctsand somebody that you just go, that's
a guy that you want to leadthis team. Is there anybody that really
stands out for you? Hell yeah, so first of all talking about and
playing with the ragul Yeah, butevery like you know, for me because
he's a dB and I'm going againsthim where I would have to do it

(58:01):
right, but both of like itwas crazy to have both of those brains
on the same side of the ballon the field at the same time.
But every by far, like justjust when it came to I mean,
essentially it was like a defensive coordinatorand offensive coordinator on the field in the

(58:23):
middle of like in his prime,he was also as smart as you know
offensive and defensive coordinators, Like heknew the game like that and he was
it was crazy. But then ontop of that, he had the physical
ability to do exceptional shit like hewould he would just know stuff and his
instincts would just take them, youknow, places whereas like he would have,

(58:45):
you know, abandoned the zone positionand be like, hey, you
you know it's too high. Buthe had a number of picks that were
crazy, but this one was like, we're playing Miami, he was.
We were in covered too, I'msure you can't find a replay, were
in cover two and he was theweak side safety, so it was I

(59:06):
want to say it was a threepoint one information. He was a safety
on the single receiver side, andthird down he talks about it and he
just knew the play, just leaves, goes over there, picks the ball
off about six seven yards in thetrips set, like he knew what it
was gonna be before it was gonnabe thrown. There's enough like the quarterback

(59:29):
looks up, I'm sure there's atouchdown over there. But he just did
a lot of shit like that whereit was just like, how do you
know? But you know, fortunatelyhe was fortunate to have a coach a
staff that allowed him to fail too, because he had to learn, and
he's also you know, missed onstuff but had valid reasons for the miss

(59:52):
It was this and the less youknow week they did you know, like
he had like he was like thathe thought the game um at a at
a ridiculous level um. But NDAled to a lot of his his playmaking
ability. And so it was itwas cool just to go against them against

(01:00:15):
them. Yeah, I accelerated quickquick as a receiver play with that.
Dr Sandraws was there my first yeartoo, and you know, just problem
what do you see? Like whatwhat what? What did I do different?
What could I do different? Orwhat what about that? What about?
Like what do you think? Whatare your own? Like I was

(01:00:35):
just you were learning now, butyou wanted the process, you want,
you want and that And I thinkthat's gone from this generation. If they
don't they don't want to learn,they want to ask the question. They're
they're afraid of failure, right,So I mean you can helpfully instill that
you're in you're selling your kids andyou're gonna fail. Right. But and
that's the problem that the kids areafraid to make a mistake nowadays. And
I see that same guys. Don'tbe afraid to make a mistake. You're

(01:00:57):
not gonna get get in trouble makinga mistake because at least you're learning.
But I've getting to a point.I've learned that I've stopped trying to give
information. If somebody wants it,they'll ask. But if you ever noticed,
nobody asks anymore, you know,talky but you're right, but you
were that's just the way. Butyou're trying to get that's the old school

(01:01:20):
mentality. I think that we haveto be able to ask the question.
Even now, I'm still asking guysyou know that are playing now, hey,
what are your thoughts on right?Because because it's ever evolving, this
this younger generation thinks that they knoweverything right, and it's and it's hard.
You know, the old school Idon't NFL baseball is a saying.
We're trying to get back to theold school stop side of it, and

(01:01:40):
it's and it's tough. But atleast, like I said, you know
that. So you're and your son, hopefully he understands enough to say,
hey, dad, you know,what are your thoughts? You know,
kit but right? But something ourkids won't listen that my kid won't listen.
That they're starting to. They're startingto ask the questions now. I
think once they realizing, you know, you tell us talk about somebody slap

(01:02:02):
upside the head, something hits someupside the head and they're right, Dad,
Hey, what do I? Hey? How do I do this?
You know? What are your thoughts? Right? And then we see that
and it's right because we don't.We don't know everything. And that's why
I said, it's always evolving.But but it's fun to sit back and
watch and there's something I'm sure yousit back and watch the NFL games and
just go what what are these guysthinking? Right? I mean it's it's

(01:02:27):
gotta be tough. Yeah, it'sgotta be tough. Yea. So it's
where so so I'm so getting intoit, you know, you know,
post career. You know, Iwant to talk about these headphones, these
live live headphones. I want tohear about these living what does live me?
L I VV not live golf?Taylor was talking about these headphones.

(01:02:52):
I want to hear about these headphonesand how there you said they're they're tailored
to the athlete, correct, right, So they have an athlete predisposition.
So before we get into the howdid this even come about? Is this
something that's I mean, you're playingif you're playing college football at Oklahore.

(01:03:13):
You're playing in the NFL, thelast thing or your minor our headphones unless
it's but you see guys nowadays wearingthem. So is that where that concept
came about. No, it camefrom my last year, essentially my last
year playing ball. I've rupped formy patil tending and was doing a lot
of rehab. All my rehab andeverything was in the swimming pool as you

(01:03:36):
know, you know, pool ishuge for rehab, and I wore beats
and so and because I enjoy itover here. Over here, to me,
it's just a better user experience.And they would just they would move
all over the place basically, andI was like, man, there is
an over here on the market thatI could just put on and it's secure.

(01:03:58):
Still an over on the market thatyou can put on and it's security.
Um. And so that's where theconcept came from. And then you
know, me wanted to be anarchitect. Always had the ability to sketch
a little bit and you know,think through um some different ergonomics to try
to you know, make it fun. So I started sketching his design.

(01:04:23):
That's where it started. I startedsketching the design um and you know,
their early design was kind of likea headband that was a little different.
Um it wind. It had alittle winding aspect to it, um and
I thought the ergonomics would allow forthat with a little bit of tension to

(01:04:44):
fit more secure. That was it. And then uh, from there got
introduced to an industrial is on mypartner, uh and who is on on
our patents now, Uh, they'rea lot uh awesome dude. And we
spent time in his basement putting thistogether, developing and using three of your
printer to get our first concept.And you know, initially it was all

(01:05:11):
about you know, functionality, andso I wanted to super secure, I
wanted waterproof, I wanted to putmusic on it. I wanted to be
this kind of all encompassing head saidthat that's literally all you needed, just
grab your head pard and go um. And so we pattent to you know,
that design and that structure for anindustrial and a design pattern with all

(01:05:33):
of that you know tech in mind, all the way up to artificial intelligence
and machine learning. And we gotthat pattern back in twenty fifteen and so
that's been sitting there and the firstdesign was great from a functional standpoint.
It did what we wanted to do, but it was not sexy, and

(01:05:54):
so I did. I did.I launched it and got it to quite
a few people started getting all thefeedback, and you know, only only
like the butch ladies that like wereyou know, they liked it. And
apart from that, the every othergirl thought it was it wasn't sexist.

(01:06:14):
And then there were you know,the guys of course, you know,
especially dudes that love work out.Like it was like yeah, absolutely all
day. Um. But then I'mlooking at it and I'm like, man,
I think it can you know,definitely look a lot better. I
like the function and I don't thinkit needs to be as secure. So
I designed it for hardcore and freerunners to be able to wear it and

(01:06:36):
do all these ships and stuff andover your hip on and stay on.
And they could do that pretty good, which was really cool. But that
was not for mass market. Andso I've done a redesign now and the
design now looks amazing, Like itis one of the sexiest headphones that you
you will ever see. Um.It looks like something that that come from

(01:07:00):
the future. Um. And it'svery very clean, very smooth and sleek
design lines uh and so it's it'ssomething that when it hits the market and
it starts to you know, landon heads, people will turn their heads
and be like, what like whatlike? Where where you get them help

(01:07:21):
on? I ain't never seen theheap one like that before. UM.
And in addition to that, thefunctionality is there, the tech behind us
there, Uh, this one's appbased and so we planned to iterate on
that and create multiple models in thefuture with more tech you know, design
into it. UM. And soremember Virgie launching this this fault. That's

(01:07:45):
what I was wanting to tell you. Telor was telling me about, I
need one for for the full figuredman with the big heads, because that's
he was saying that. He saidthey were kind of tight on him.
I go, well, how's itsupposed to fill on my head? Then?
What am I exactly I need?I need an NFL style offensive lineman
head side, I guess, Iguess not the five tens wide receiver,

(01:08:10):
small hands. I need to justwhat I need to be that we can
get on here and get promote.So I was so so the l I
VV, what's what do the what'sthe acronym means? So to live It's
not it just lived, and sothat when I first had a kid named
Tony, he was a free runnerout of Miami. He you know,
put it on and started doing someflips and some moves and uh, I

(01:08:33):
was like, man, this isyou know, it's it's cool. I
can I mean, it's my flowis good. It's like I can just
live in the hip on while I'mdoing my thing. And I was like,
oh, yeah, that's good.I like that actually, and uh,
from there just stuck. I waslike, man, live and then
it fit with this kind of freedom, uh you know thought process and you

(01:08:56):
know this you know, limitless kindof removing restrictions that all other over ear
headphones have. Uh, and itit flows. So I start, we'll
live and so now have live it'slive audio, and so live audio will
produce multiple audio products in addition tothe headphone that we have coming out perfect.

(01:09:18):
So that's that's what I was wantingbecause I was I was hearing about
it to tell me about it.I need to hear about I want to
see him. I need to trythese out. He said. The new
ones are launching when it fall.Uh so the new fall okay, and
they can go website to go lookfor this. So so website we're gonna
have it will be live audio dotcom. Uh, it'll come out of

(01:09:40):
nowhere. We'll have all the advertisementbe like where this come from. Uh,
we'll be Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, all the all the socials um
uh. And then our website willbe live audio dot live audio. Okay.
Everything's everything's wireless or you can havea you're gonna have a chord a
what they called now accorded wired wiredand okay yeah wired, okay, yeah,

(01:10:04):
both is wireless and wire perfect.I get them on here, right
about. Get them on here.Put your wire in. Yeah, even
three point five millimeter in to dopodcasts or whatever. Perfect. We'll get
them on here. We'll start we'llstart themoute. Just make sure they fit.
I don't want my head to feellike my eyes are in a pop
talk about Yeah no, yeah,exactly tell me that first models. Those

(01:10:27):
are. That's one of the that'sone of the learning experiences from exactly right.
It's it's all. That's what itis. Right, you get there's
you're gonna you're gonna fail out it, you're gonna make mistakes, whatever,
and that's what it is. That'show you learn them. But like I
said, it's an iterative process.But who would have thought a kid from
from you know, from Arlington,Sam Houston would be here promote would be
you know, producing headphones after youknow, after the entrepreneurial ship that what

(01:10:50):
you've created and everything else and beingable to do that, man, you
know, you know, you know, commend you for you know, for
doing that and sticking with it,because a lot of guys see to when
they're done playing, they seem toget lost. They don't know what they're
gonna do right, And it seemslike you found a niche that and that's
all it is. Sometimes people well, hey, how did you do it?

(01:11:10):
Right? You hear story? Ihad Chris Gonkowski on with his ice
shaker talking about, well, yeahI had that kind of idea in this
Well we all have ideas, butare you willing to put the work in
to do it? And you're aguy that was willing to put in the
work to do it to get youto this point to be able to say,
you know, well, you know, I'm not what you know,

(01:11:30):
the the football playing is that's that'swho I want. But this is what
I'm doing now, I'm trying tohelp people write ergonomics and the aesthetics to
make it the best I can be. And that's what it is. And
that's what Chris said, the samething. He goes, I just I
put the work in and that's whatthat's what you're doing. You're instilling that
your kids and hopefully you know,somebody listening can can say, hey,

(01:11:53):
I heard Mark's story and I'm ableto He gave me the idea to be
able to do it right. Who'sthe same In ten years a product doesn't
come out said I heard this storythat you know that you talked about about
doing it or anything else you knowexactly, And that's all we're trying to
do. Right, If you couldhelp one person, we've done our job,
right, is it. That's whatThat's what it's about. It's inspiring.

(01:12:14):
Yeah, it's that's what I think. That's all what I think about
designing. When I'm designing something thatit should invoke an inspiration. Whether it
then necessarily have to be in anelectronics, but whatever it is that you're
doing, man, yeah I cando it like let me let me lock
in, like let's let's get itdone. And it's and like you said,

(01:12:36):
that's that's some motivation sometimes that somebodyneeds to hear because everybody wants they
all want to they all want togo at the end of the rainbow.
They didn't want to take the timeto climate and put the work in for
it. So but I think Isaid, well, you heard me that
that patterns in twenty fifteen, andthen we filed it. I'm sorry twenty
sixteen. It was great, andthen we filed it in twenty fourteen,

(01:12:58):
and so where you know, essentiallyI've been tinkering, you know, at
this for nine ten years, soit's certainly not an overnight thing. Sometimes
the persistence and just you know,sticking with something, you know. I
think the best part mark is thefact that you know, you talk about
when you were playing in the NFLof asking guys the question seems like the

(01:13:20):
same people the headphones. Hey,what are your you know, what are
your thoughts on it? You know? How how can we make it better?
Right? You're you're worried about You'renot worried about your thoughts. You're
worried about what other people think intheir thoughts. Right, there's you take
the good with the bad. ButI think that just comes down to you
know what was instilled in us askids of it's okay to make mistakes,

(01:13:42):
but as long as you want tolearn and learn from the mistakes and get
better. Oh yeah, uh Ifound that really good UM athletes, players
whoever, were really good at receivingcriticism and development like some allowing somebody to

(01:14:03):
tell you that's not so good,like I don't do like that, like
whatever it is, but being ableto not take that to heart and shut
down or feel whatever you feel,but just use that as fuel, use
that as knowledge for going on andbeing better. Like it's I would say

(01:14:28):
it's coachable. Being coachable essentially,that is a word that it's lost for
sure in this generation. Coachable,being able to do that. Uh,
just real quick, Mark, Sopeople can follow you on they can follow
the live headphones on Instagram and orwhat follow you or follow the business okay
Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, UhInstagram? What ye Instagram? Just yeah,

(01:14:55):
Mark Clayton dot MC, Mark ClaytonDOTC. Yeah, make sure we
the right Mark lay the younger MarkLayton, not the older Mark Layton.
I don't think that market all thething. Yeah, yeah, I get
I get tagged and dolphins stuff allthe time young wrong wrong guy, wrong
guy. Um, but I appreciateyou jumping on here man and and sharing

(01:15:17):
the story a little bit and justhearing that, like I said, if
we can we help one person,man, we've we've done our job.
So look forward to these headphones anduh and seeing how I'm seeing what we
can do with it and seeing youknow, the excitement. Yeah, I
definitely have to revisit this a littlebit a few years after. Let your
son get into in the high schooland the college. See see where he
ends up. So man, weabsolutely, absolutely, Man, I appreciate

(01:15:43):
it. So do it again.Man, I appreciate it.