Rennae Stubbs – Legendary Doubles Tennis Player

Legendary doubles tennis player, host of The Power Hour on Amazon Prime Video, Olympian and multi network television host Rennae Stubbs joins Kevin to about her winning career and how her childhood helped elevate her to the top. All while passing down some wisdom for the next generation.

A special thanks to our sponsor Herman Marshall Whiskey. Built from the grain up. Just like good whiskey should be. www.hmwhiskey.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Guys, Kevin Mention here on theBig Head Pod. Just sitting down,
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So if you get a chance todo it, go grab yourself a
bottle. This stuff is amazing.Welcome to another edition of the Big Head

(00:50):
Pod here on the dub Network.Today's guest is a first for me.
She hails from down Under, younglady twenty years and she is an excellent
tennis player, but that she's justan excellent human being and without further ado,
Miss Renee Stubbs. Renee, Ican't do that. I'm good.

(01:11):
I don't really doing today, Renee. I'm very well. Thanks Kevin.
It's great to be on your yourpodcast and getting the chance to uh just
to talk talk tennis, talk aboutgrowing up it just in Australia and that,
I mean you've made the complete worldcircuit with with with tennis and everything
else. Um, I want toget just back to, you know,

(01:34):
to growing up in Australia. Waswas was tennis your first love? I
mean, you know, I seewhen you when people sit see Australia and
they see the beaches, they thinksurfing, maybe some baseball. What was
yours? What was your childhood likegrowing up? Was tennis to love or
was there other things that you wantedto do? Well, there's no question
that tennis is probably my first truelove. But you know, look growing

(01:56):
up in Australia. I think thisis so indicative of being a Australian is
that we were. And of courseI was growing up in a time with
no phones, no cell phones,no like you know devices, and and
so we were like get out ofthe house and go and do whatever,
and you know, I would playcricket with my brother. I play rugby
with my brother, you know,touch football with my brother or my sister,

(02:16):
and you know, go swimming,go into the ocean. I swam
competitively as a young kid. SoI played netball, which you know,
Americans don't really know, but it'svery popular in Australia, especially growing up
as a as a as a girlin Australia, it's kind of like our
vision of softball. You know,it's really quite a popular thing for girls.
So I did everything, you knowwhat I mean. I did every

(02:38):
sport. I played every sport Icould, and then buy about a nine
ten years of age, I startedreally focusing a lot more on tennis.
And you know that's where I sortof put my put my energies in as
a kid, was to play tennis. But honestly, Kevin, I like
all kids, I grew up justbeing obsessed with being outside and plying and

(03:00):
doing any sport out code, particularlywith my with my older brother, because
you know, who doesn't want tobe around their older brother doing sports exactly.
I think that's gone by the waysidein this generation of being outside.
Right, you talk about the electronics, it was right, go outside and
the sun comes, sun goes down, and then you got to come back
in and and I think as athletes, right, we our bodies go through

(03:22):
you know, different muscle groups,different the deeven, different demographics, right,
and different Um, I guess visualaspects of the game, right from
from like you said, from fromrugby to tennis to to soft on anything
else. You get to see differentdifferent ideas and I think helps us as
athletes, right, So being thatway, Um. So, so were
they both tennis players? Well,your brother and sister or is that you're

(03:45):
so that's the competitive juices were therewith all that? Yeah? Yeah,
Well, I mean my older brotherwas really good athlete. He played rugby
and um, tennis, Um,he was a good swim up. My
brother was kind of like the dudeversion of me. He could do everything.
Um, and I was alete,not a tom boy, so anytime
I could get out and do anysports. And my sister was quite a
good athlete as well, but sheshe ended up doing sort of equestrian riding

(04:06):
because my mom's side of the familywas you know, all horses and they
owned a stud farm and my momwas an equestrian writer. So my sisters
sort of took that route, whereasI was more swimming, tennis, just
being outside. And so that was, you know, key to me.
And you know, I think aboutnow how kids grow up, and I'm

(04:27):
just so I'm also sad for thembecause they don't get the opportunity. You
know, they come home from schooland they get on their devices and they
don't We used to, like yousaid, it was like, all right,
you had to be home at dusk, right, that was all we
were told. You know, wecould ride our bikes around. And I
know that there's a lot, sadly, a lot more crazy, you know
stuff happening in the world, andyou have to be a little bit more
I guess, aware of where yourkids are. But that in and of

(04:49):
itself is sad. But I thinkthat we were just given free rein to
do what we wanted as long aswe were home to do our schoolwork and
home by dark. And that waskind of the key to my childhood.
And and yeah, I think,you know, you do different different sports,
you get different dexterities, you usedifferent footwork, you use different muscles,
and then also you kind of pickup up what you really want,

(05:10):
right, And I eventually found tennisto be I don't want to say easy,
but I guess I found that tobe the most the thing that came
naturally to me the best. AndI also loved it. And my brother
was quite a good player, soI really wanted to be around him and
our friends, and I had Ihad gotten a core group of young friends
at that point, some of themI'm still friends with to this day.

(05:31):
And I wanted to be with them, and so I went to I used
to go to school before school,I'd played tennis. After school, I'd
played tennis. I'd ride my bike. You know, it was quite independent.
And so that's sort of where mylove of tennis ended up taking me
to whatever that was. And soyour brother was kind of your motivation to
be right, That's that's what minewas. I want to be better than
you whatever, whatever it was it. I'm sure if he was out doing

(05:54):
if a rugby or something, you'dprobably gone to rugby because you wanted to
be better than he was. Yeah, I don't know I ever wanted to
be better because I just knew hewas always going to be better than me
just being a boy and being older. But I wanted to at least be
around him, you know what Imean. And my parents also thought,
you know, it's okay to gowith her. And my older sister was

(06:15):
quite a decent tennis player as well, and she was quite athletic too,
and so but as I said,she ended up going to the equestrian world.
But to be frank, I think, you know, as long as
my parents knew we were together havingfun and doing what we wanted to do,
that was the key. So Iwould stress that to any parent,
like make sure your kids just outthere having fun and having passion for what
they're doing. Yeah. So,so going you know in high school is

(06:38):
it is? I mean you've beenin the States long enough to understand to
see how athletics are in high schoolin the US. How was it in
Australia for you as far as thetennis side of it was it was it
offered at school or was it somethingthat you had to leave school and go?
Do you know how was that?How was that brought to you?
Yeah, it was not offered tome at school. It's very different.
It's a very different growing up inAustralia in some respects because sports is after

(07:02):
school kind of thing. But thereare schools obviously that offer things now sort
of private schools as well. Inparticular, I didn't really have that.
I went to an all girls Catholicschool. It wasn't you know, we
weren't we weren't going off and doingthings of the day. We were at
school. We were doing our youknow, education from nine till three,
and then after that we were offto do our own things. So it's

(07:25):
a little bit different to I guessthe US, where they have a lot
of schedule program But I also friendsthat have kids in private schools in Australia
that have days where in the morningthey do water polo, or they have
swimming, or they have tennis orwhatever it is. They go and do
that and it's allotted into their educationaleducation time. But you know, Australia

(07:46):
is so obsessed with sports that youcannot avoid it, you cannot avoid wanting
to do it. And I thinkthat that is, you know, I'm
very blessed to have had that asa kid that I just I just wanted
to do anything I could to beoutside and be around my friends. And
I think that's also an important thingfor parents, is that you know when
you're having an organized sport. Andyou know, Kevin, you know what

(08:07):
this is like. When you haveorganized sports, you around your friends,
you feel like you've got a coach, You've got people around you mentoring you
and helping you. And I findthat a lot of CEOs if they're employing
someone, they want to know ifthey played an organized sport as a kid,
because it really does matter. Andbecause you learn discipline, your learn
the high as the lows, wins, the losses, how do you deal
with disappointment? All those seeings.So I think playing sports as a kid

(08:30):
is a precursor of being having alot of success in life. Absolutely,
the you know, like you said, it teaches that teamwork and the building.
But tennis is very individualized as well. Yeah, so, I mean
so a lot of it. Sothe you know, the pressures that come
along with with that, just onthe individualistic side of the sport, you
know, can can help too.But it also it kind of helps build

(08:50):
the team, uh you know andhelp later on your career playing doubles and
everything else. Yeah, so youknow, being in high school and going
and understanding you know, like totalk about the US sports high school,
Okay, get a chance to geta college scholarship. Is it so in
high school, senior high school,you want to go play tennis. How
does it work in Australia with that. Yeah, it's interesting because I think

(09:11):
if I'd known that there was maybean option to play college tennis, I
probably would have may have gone thatroute because I knew that I would have
been good enough to at least geta scholarship. But I didn't really know
about that. It's a little bitmore prevalent now people sort of know that's
that's an option if you're growing upin Australia. But I just finished a

(09:31):
high school. But the thing withme was is that I was at the
Australian Institute a sport from the ageof fifteen and a half almost sixteen,
so I spent four or fifteen,So I spent four years. I had
a four year scholarship to that.So that was the elite athletes in every
single sport in Australia were given scholarshipsto go there. So we're talking everything

(09:54):
from track and field, weightlifting,netball, or basketball, all the Olympic
sports, you know, so swimmers. I was surrounded by all the best
athletes, basketball players, so Iwas surrounded by the absolute elite of elite
athletes from the age of basically sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, seventeen and eighteen.
So I was sort of that wasmy precursor into Europe, supposed to

(10:18):
be destined to be one of ourbest tennis players because we have plucked you
from sort of obscurity to come hereand do that. And so that gave
me the imponents to think, oh, maybe I am a little bit special
in my sport, in my country, and maybe I can take this further,

(10:39):
because as you know, you don'tas a sixteen year old, think
I'm going to be the best this, I'm going to conquer the world.
You're just like, oh cool,I get to do this more. Oh
cool, I'm getting into for yougetting into sort of elite baseball teams and
I was in elite tennis teams.Maybe I took a travel to Italy,
you know, because they took usaway for six weeks and we got an

(11:01):
opportunity to go away in the governmentin my case, that the Australian Institute
of Sport would pay for that.So I was kind of just I just
sort of went I don't even knowhow to describe it. I just that
was my path. And then allof a sudden, I was like,
oh, I'm playing competitive tennis andI'm trying to get my ranking up and
I'm making money. And so inAustralia, I started making money when I

(11:22):
was like seventeen, winning sort ofsmall money tournaments. So in the States
you have to declare amateur to goto college, so it's a little bit
different that way. I wasn't reallygiven that option, so I don't know.
I guess it was just destiny forme. Once I got that scholarship
to the Australian Institutes of Sport.It was someone saying to me, we
think you're good enough to be aprofessional. Yeah, I mean that talk

(11:45):
about a lot of pressure in asixteen years old and here you are right
plucked from I mean when you're inhigh school, did you even think about
being an Olympic sport of just wantedto go play and here they calling on
you, Hey, we want youto come be here. You know,
talk about some of the pressure thatthat put on. I mean sixteen year
old kid, that is a lotof pressure, you know, representing your
country, being one of or manytennis players. But then all of a

(12:09):
sudden you're around all of them andthat pressure. Talking about that a little
bit because that mean that's because Idon't think people understand what that really amounts
to, especially at an Olympic level. Well, thank god Kevin. At
that age, I was too stupidto know what pressure really was, right,
and I was too young. Ithink my feeling when I got that
opportunity was Yes, cool, Iget I get to keep doing this.

(12:33):
You know, I get to dothis sport that I think I'm pretty decent
at um and they think I'm Imust be pretty decent at because I mean
every year that you know this wasthen this doesn't has happened as much now.
But at that point, you know, you're sort of like, Okay,
it's my turn. I am thisage. Are they going to choose

(12:54):
me to go to this program?So yeah, you don't. You can't
like college, you know, writeletters and be like hey can I go
here? Can I get in there? It's just like, well, I
hope they see me. You know, they picked me, and I was
one of the best juniors, soI kind of thought that I will go
or I should go, but hey, maybe they decide oh no, we

(13:16):
like Sally that and than you.We think she's got more talent or whatever
it is, or she works harder, or she's not quite as a nutbag
as you, whatever the reason.But they when my time came for my
opportunity to get there, they pickedme. So I was like, Okay,
this is cool, this is fine. I get to hang out with
my friends and I get to goand play tennis, and oh yeah the

(13:37):
school thing, and so it was. I was just I didn't see it
as pressure. I saw it asan opportunity. And I guess that's what
the ones that want to do thisfor a living and understand the ramifications of
that. They don't think about pressurethat they just think about, Yes,
this is cool. How far didyou grow up? Was the school from
where you grew up? I meanbeing away from home is, especially at

(13:58):
sixteen, being away over night atsixth Like you said, you're sixteen,
you don't know any different. Buthow far I mean we were able?
Was it close enough to home orwas it something that where you know,
your parents had to fly and comesee you. No, thank god,
it was far enough away that myparents couldn't get in the car and drive
there easily. But it was closeenough that I could drive home. So
it was about a three and ahalf hour drive for me back to Sydney.

(14:20):
And I used to do that quiteoften when once I was old enough
to get my own license, andmy dad bought me a secondhand car,
a forward laser for five thousand dollars. I'll never forget it, you know,
but I thought that was like,hey, I thought that was like
a Ferrari, you know what Imean. Because I had independence, so
at like seventeen, basically I coulddrive home of a weekend. So I

(14:43):
used to drive home on a Fridaynight sometimes. And I had another friend
of mine who was from Sydney whohad a car, and we would like
caravan back together. And so Iwould go home every now and again,
not all the time, just maybeonce every three four weeks. I would
drive home just see my parents,see my ends in Sydney. So it
was far enough away that it wasn'teasy for me to go home, but

(15:05):
it was close enough that if Ireally put some effort in, I could
drive home. Um And I thinkabout that now and I'm like, oh
my god, I used to drivehome at like ten o'clock at night.
It's kind of crazy. What Iused to do. But I had such
independence as a kid, and thatactually helped me navigate the next twenty years
of my life of being out therein the world stage by myself making a

(15:26):
life for myself. So so thatthat was that was good for me to
be close but not too close.Yeah, so this is this was just
athletic purely, no education other thanthe education of your sports. No,
no, no, this wasn't likea college or was it. No,
we had it was a It wasa where I was living was if you
can imagine, it's kind of likea big Olympic um training area. So

(15:50):
we were living in dorms, soit felt like a college with sports.
And then we used so I usedto play tennis in the morning very early,
like you know, six thirty tillyou know, eight thirty. And
then we would go to school ata regular school in the in the area
that was kind of catered to theinstitute of sport athletes. All of the

(16:11):
athletes are under a certain age wentto that school in the area, so
they'd kind of done a trade withthem and said, you know, take
care of our athletes. I didmy schooling instead of over two years from
eleventh and twelfth year. So mylast two years of college high school were
done over three years. So theyallowed us to we didn't have to be

(16:33):
at school from nine to five becausewe couldn't, so they gave us the
opportunity to do the last two yearsof our college base of high school over
three years. And that's what Idid. I did my last two years
high school over over three years,and it was great. So we were
around normal people, normal kids aswell, which was important to have that
social friendships outside of sports, etc. So it was it was kind of

(16:56):
a great thing. And then mylast year there was I was not at
school. I was just purely That'swhen I was really focused on all right,
I'm going to be a pro thatAnd that was how old were at
that point? I was nineteen,yeah, nineteen, So this is so
this would have been what year wouldthat would have been? Do you you
can remage me, man um?I was it was like eighty seven eighty

(17:21):
eight that time. Eighty nine eightynine was my first sort of real foray
into professional tennis. All year.Okay, so so going through this pro
this whole process of where you areright being the Olympics being the ultimate goal
at that age. So you know, so what kind of so you once
you're done at the academy or youhad to be out after so many years,

(17:41):
then you're like, when I'm payinganymore, get get get lost,
go buy. Yeah. I meanthat's why my last year of being there
on scholarship, I knew that Ihad to make a mark in the world
rankings, and I that's what Idid. So in the last year I
spent I spent six months of mymy my scholarship of being in Canberra away.

(18:04):
I literally traveled everywhere and that waspaid by me. I my dad
gave me. Really, my dadgave me credit card. Um. Actually,
they didn't want to send me.They sort of refused to send me
because they said my results at homehadn't really warranted me, you know,
getting a trip paid for by them. And so I said, And that
was that was the moment that Ibecame me, because I said, well

(18:30):
that's great, but I'm going togo anyway and I'm paying my own way.
And they were like, okay,well that's up to you. And
I sort of left um and andI never I never went back, and
I never looked back. And mydad, you know, gave me a
credit card and said, look,you know what, here's here's an opportunity.
Go for it. And I wentaway and played some money tournaments in
the US, UM and I madeenough money to pay my dad back on

(18:51):
my credit card. And I haven'towned a dollar to anybody since. And
so that was that was a bigmoment for me because I could have I
could have reverted and retreated back toa hole and be like, well,
people don't believe in me, soI guess I'm not good enough. And
some girls do that sadly, um, but me, I was I was
not flight. I was fight.So I was like, all right and

(19:11):
f you, I'm out of here. I'm going to do it on my
own. And I did and Inever look back. And within four or
five years, I got a homein the US and I'd made enough money
to do that and and that wasthat was it. And you just and
you talk about that that mental sideof it, right of where you know
what athletes go through, of youknow you're not you can't do this,
You're you know, you don't havewhat it takes, and you're like me,

(19:33):
you have that use that that's fuelfor the fire, saying you know
what, I'm going to prove everyone of you wrong. Ye, And
that's that's motivation itself. And thisgeneration nowadays that there's no motivation to do
it right. Maybe they need tostart putting them in these in these hole
with the with the least amount ofamenities that they can have and figure out,
all right, I'm stuck with allthe how do I get away from

(19:53):
this? What do I need todo? Right? This generation doesn't they
seem to not want to ask thatquestion of how they want, you know,
how did you do it? Theywant to just just just tell me
and then and then it automatically happened. Right, Oh yeah, I mean
look, there's you know, there'ssome that make it big quick and they're
just the freaks, right The LebronJames is the you know in your sport,

(20:17):
Aaron Judges that just are like,you know, they're just going to
be special, right, you knowthat, Alex Rodriguez, the Derek Jeters,
I mean they come along oh sooften right now. They're not they're
not. They're lightning in a bottle, right, So like with me for
in tennis, for example, likeback in my day, like Stephie Graft
was a phenom. Monica sellis phenome, Martina hingis phenom like but those are

(20:38):
rare, right, Serena venus Um. There are so many that you don't
know about. The grinder way atthe lower level, like and playing shitty
tournaments in Europe or in the US, and where they're calling their own lines
and picking up their own balls andgetting maybe fifty points at a tournament.
You're like, I just moved tenspots in the ranking, and I'm so

(21:00):
close to qualifying at a bigger tournament. And so that is a constant grind.
There's thousands, just like in baseball, thousands and thousands of kids trying
to make it. So if youwant to distinguish yourself amongst them, you
better work harder, You better dealwith disappointment better, you better dig yourself
out of a whole quicker. There'sso many things that you need to just

(21:22):
be better than everybody else in becausethere is thousands of you doing the same
thing all over the world, andin particularly in tennis, it is every
country you know, and in theUS you're dealing with you know, in
baseball, you're dealing with thousands ofkids that are trying to do what you're
doing who are super talented. Soif you don't work harder and be better

(21:42):
and you know, not have anattitude, you're going to be left behind.
And in my case, I justI love the sport, I love
traveling. I was very independent andI just kept going. I just put
my head down and kept going.And you know, I dealt with a
lot of adversity. And you know, being from Australia, we were on
the road six months of the yearsometimes, I mean, which is brutal,

(22:04):
being away from friends and family.And I just knew the only way
for me to be successful is that'swhat I had to do. So so
growing, you know, getting readyto this process of leaving school. Um,
you know tennis, So that tennisAustralian tennis player correct ride labor.
There was one that is he correctride labor and was Martina Navratilova as well.

(22:25):
She was check um and then andthen became an American citizen. Um.
But you know, it was abig female tennis player from Australia that
you've kind of looked up to.Oh wow, we had like you know,
of course Margaret Court was a youknow, way way way way ago.
And then you know, Evon GolagoneColli was somebody that I looked up
to UM a lot. There wasa player called Wendy Turnbull that was before

(22:47):
me, and there was there wasabsolutely plays before me that I looked up
to, UM none that were likemega superstars. I think Evon Golagone Colli
in my age was probably the personthat I was looking up to as a
ten to eleven year old winning onewild and I was like, wow,
that's cool. So no, itwas it was more along the lines of
and I and Pat Cash, youknow, won Wimbledon when I was like

(23:08):
sixteen, and he was like thatwas the moment where I was like,
oh my god, I'm Australian justwon Wimbledon. You know that I understood.
And that was at a very pivotaltime in my tennis career because I
was I was young enough but oldenough and good enough at that point to
think, hey, could I dosomething like that? And I practiced with
this girl called Liz Smiley, ElizabethSmiley, and she won the doubles at

(23:30):
Wimbledon when I was about eighteen,and I used to practice with her quite
a bit. She took me underher wing a little bit I stayed with
her in the States. It waskind of one of the reasons I moved
to the US when I moved toOrlando, because she had a home there
and her and her husband sort oftook me under their wings. So yeah,
there's absolutely people older than me fromAustralia that really made a difference in
my life and also made the differencefor me transitioning over to the US to

(23:53):
live to make a go of itas a as a player. So yeah,
I mean it is really important tohave mentors and people that you respect
and love that are a little bitolder than you helping you through that and
navigate because for Austraians it is reallyquite difficult because we don't get a lot
of competition down in Australia as well, it's so far to go, you
know, in Europe, and inEurope in particular, there's so many small

(24:15):
tennis tournaments that you can travel to. I mean, buddy, hell,
you can live in one country andbe in another two hours, you know
what I mean, on a train. Yeah, so that's not how it
happens in Australia. You gotta leavethe country if you want to be successful.
Yeah, that's yeah, got togo around airs rock correct, if
you want to go to the otherside. Yeah, it's it's a big
country, but there's not a lotof tennis tournaments there because you know,
the if the smaller tournaments don't havea lot of tournaments there. So for

(24:37):
you to get a ranking, youreally got to leave the country and then
and then dealing with that. So, you know, so getting ready to
branch out, like you said,to leave. The conversations you had of
people saying, you know, beingprepared mentally, you talk about that.
So so you just you pick upand you just you just go right and
then you have you have an agentat this time or is this more agents?

(24:59):
Even your bag on your way,pick your own tournaments, get your
travel book, your tickets book,your trains book, your you know whatever
it tasks buses and you know,hopefully get one or two of your mates
on the road with you and you'resort of doing this all together. And
yeah, that's how it was.It was just the grind. It was

(25:21):
a grind of small tournaments and tryingto make it. And thankfully, you
know, we're a bit of atraveling circus, the tennis tour. So
whatever level you're at, you sortof get your little group around you,
whether it be five or six orseven of your friends, and you kind
of just try and make it andthen you may have to play against them,
which is never fun because it isa one on one sport, or
in even in doubles two on two. Um. So so yeah, it's

(25:44):
an interesting, little crazy circus thatwe have on the tennis tour. So,
I mean, you talk about growingup quick, right, You're nineteen
and here you go and you're gone. Yeah, you're just traveling all around
and end up end up in theUS playing you know, playing the single.
When did you start doing the doubleside of it? Well, I
mean I always played doubles, soyou know, as a kid, you're

(26:04):
always you're playing singles and doubles,and and I played singles up until I
was thirty, and then I retiredfrom singles because I was getting a lot
of injuries, and um, youknow, I knew regretted my career,
really my tennis careers. I didn'thave the success and singles that I wanted.
I mean, I was quite agood singles player. I was top
seventy in the world, which isreally hard to do considering this millions of
kids trying to make it there.So I was proud of my attempts in

(26:29):
singles, but you know, sadlyI had a pretty bad wrist injury and
things that kind of got in theway. But doubles came so naturally and
easy to me that I was justalways very successful at that from a from
an early age. I won myfirst WTA tournament at twenty twenty. I
think twenty one, nineteen ninety twowas the first time I won a w

(26:49):
t A tournament. I won fourthat year. So I was immediately like,
at twenty one years of age,making money and winning tournaments because it
just it came. It came alot more natural to me. And as
I said before, with you know, Liz Smiley, the girl from Australia,
sort of took me under her wing. She won Wimbledon, and I
would practice with her, and Iwas like, wait, I'm practicing with

(27:10):
her. I think I'm good enough. I think I'm as good as her
in different ways. I know I'vegot a lot to learn, but I
thought, oh, maybe maybe shecan win wimblin, maybe I can win
wimblank one day, which was sucha foreign thing to think about. You
know, as a kid, likeyou dream about it, but then when
you're actually I mean, you knowwhat it's like. It's like you dream
about being that person up at badand like my one's going to win the
World Series for us, you knowwhat I mean, and you think about

(27:33):
it, but then when you actuallyyou're actually there, you're like, oh
shit, this is like my dream, it's actually happening. You don't.
You manifest it, but you don'tknow it's going to happen. So I
just was always very confident with mydoubles and I started focusing on that at
thirty when I retired from singles,and I put all my efforts into just
being a really great doubles player.And that was when I hadn't I had
a lot of success before that,but that's when I had my major success,

(27:57):
success as winning majors and becoming numberone in the world and all that
sort of stuff. So yeah,I mean, there's no there's no set
game plan. You don't have aset Okay, in this year, I'm
going to do this and then I'mgoing to do that. It just it
just happens, and you get luckywith the person that you play doubles with.
And you finally gel with somebody,as I did with Lisa Raymond for

(28:18):
example, and then everything just goesthe way it's supposed to. So that's
actually so picking a doubles partnering youtalk about, look Lisa and everything else.
Is it kind of like tag teamwrestling where you just go, can
you really go pick anybody that youreally want to? Just say, hey,
what what are your thoughts on this? You know, it's yeah,
it's it's that's all. It's it'sa it's a it's it's kind of like
bumble without the app. You know, you just kind of like, hey,

(28:42):
um, you know in lesa nicerespect. I always knew that she
was a really great doubles player.For example, I've had a lot of
success with other players up until then. I'd won probably at least ten w
TED tournaments on my own with otherpeople Lauren McNeil, Helena Soakova, all
really good doubles and great singles players. And then I play. I think

(29:03):
I knew Lisa as a player.I knew how good good she was.
She was played very similarly to me. Serve and volley great, volleys great.
She was just a really really areally great tennis player, and I
thought that we would do really wellin doubles. I just knew that we
were going to be really hard tobeat if we were both at our best
on a doubles court, and sowe just sort of started talking about it.

(29:26):
She was playing with somebody randomly,and her focus was really on singles
at that time as well. Shewas a terrific singles player, made it
into the top fifteen in the worldin singles, so her focus was on
that. But so when I sortof went to her and said do you
want to play this week, She'slike, yeah, okay, And we
made the finals sort of that firsttournament that we played, and then I
said, hey, do you wantto play a full schedule next year together?

(29:49):
Because some singles players now play randomlywith people and don't really care about
manifesting a doubles team, and thenthere's people that really want to manifest the
doubles team and do really well indoubles. And that was, you know,
in the end, what Lisa andI chose to do. And even
when we were doing really well ondouble, she was doing really well on
singles as well, so there wasa lot on her plate. But that's
just the way it worked, andwe gelled immediately, we made, as

(30:11):
I said, a final, andthen as soon as we started playing together,
we just started winning tournaments and itwas just like, okay, we
should keep doing this, and wedid it for six or seven years together,
and we won thirty three tournaments andthree Grand Slams, and it just
worked out. But you may playwith somebody and you don't really like their
personality, your tennis doesn't really geltogether. It's kind of like a relationship.

(30:33):
It just doesn't work, and yousay, hey, listen, I
think we're better off without each other. I think we can do better with
somebody else. And also in tennis, you have to understand it's kind of
like in baseball positions, right,just because you play outfield doesn't necessarily mean
you're a great going to be agreat first baseman or you know, you
could be a short stop or acatcher. You're not going to be a
great second, you know what Imean. So you're good enough you could

(30:56):
play those positions, I'm sure,and you do as a kid. But
when you're a pro, you knowwhat your strengths and weaknesses are. And
so for me, for example,I had a really I had a good
backhend. My inside out forehand wasprobably my better return. Lisa's best forehand
was her forehand cross pot. Sothen you start going, Okay, you're
definitely a four hand caught player andI'm definitely a backhand court player. So

(31:18):
that also matters in doubles. Yourstrengths and weaknesses of what you do in
your game also make a difference ofwho you should play doubles with. For
example, so there were some peoplethat I would have liked to have played
with, but they were more abackhand side player, which is what I
was, So that also matters aswell in doubles. Yeah, you talk
about the your what benefits your yourstrength and weaknesses, and then I understand

(31:42):
camaraderie build of knowing where you don'teven have to think, you know that
she's going to be in a certainspot, right and in doing this,
so you guys built this this greatcamaraderie and started winning tournaments. So leading,
so you go to going up intoyour first Olympics, correct, was
it ninety eight six? Yeah,ninety six was my first Olympics. But
you know, with in tennis,um, the focus is on on Grand

(32:06):
slams, right, and yeah,yeah, and then and then the Olympics
started to become a conversation when Iwas like, you know, starting to
play as well. But that's asyou know, once every four years,
so our focus is only on GrandSlams and our ranking and winning WTA tournaments.
And then once the Olympics starts comingaround, then you start thinking about
it, because then it started tobecome part of it. And it was

(32:28):
the one The one thing I didn'twin was a medal at the Olympics,
which still did this date pisces meoff because I played four of them,
you know, um, but thefirst one in ninety six in Atlanta,
I actually got sick and I didn'tactually get to play. Um, I
got sick on the day of mymatch, so I actually had to pull
out and I was my best opportunityprobably to win a medal that was that
year because of the fact that Iwas playing doubles with Lisa for example,

(32:52):
but at the Olympics you have toplay with another Australian. Yeah, that's
what I was just going to ask. How do you pick that that is
chosen for you based on your theranking. So if I'm you know,
at that point at ninety six,I was probably I was three or four
in the world in doubles, andthen they had pitted me with mcgallcott Nicole
Bradkey, who was the number onesingles player but was also ranked, you

(33:15):
know, fairly high in doubles.But we were also we'd played a bit
together at Billy Jean King Cup,which is the female equivalent of David's Cup,
and so we had played a coupleof competitive matches in that and we
were quite good. So I feltreally comfortable going in and playing with her
because we'd actually played a bunch ofreally high profile matches together. But that
didn't happen every time. At theOlympics. For me, it was just

(33:37):
kind of all right, here's yourother Ozzie, you play together, make
it work. And it wasn't thateasy because it's not easy to gel.
It's kind of like a basketball team. You could have the best players in
the world, but if they haven'tplayed together, no one knew knows who's
throwing it to, who, whatposition are you going to, where do
you like to shoot from, allthat sort of stuff. That's just like
throwing it together in a millisecond wasnot easy. But the ninety six at

(34:00):
the ninety six Atlanta Olympics was probablymy best chance to win a medal,
and sadly I got six. Soyeah, I still haven't forgotten about that
so doing I mean think about sodid they give you what? So?
No? So knowing do you doyou have to qualify for that Olympic double?
So going into the so going totwo thousand Olympics, which were in

(34:21):
Sydney, right of saying, okay, when when do they let you know
who your doubles partner is going tobe? They give you some time or
is it just well you you kindof have a bit of a say at
that point in two thousand, forexample, I was number one in the
world, so I kind of alittle bit of a say, um,
um, you know, I'd maybehope to play. But really it's based
on who they think would be thebest team, like our coaches and managers

(34:45):
and the rankings. So if anotherAustralian was ranked eighteen in the world in
doubles and she was the next topone, we were going to play together.
And that was just the way itwas. Um. So it's based
on rankings. Who you played theOlympics, and that's just the way it
goes Now, if you had fourplayers that were similar rankings, for example,

(35:07):
and one light someone a little bitbetter or felt that they could gel
better together, or the coaches feltlike, for example, I'd like to
play on the back end. Ifthe next highest player was also a back
end side player, they would probablysay, well, you guys aren't going
to do that well, because somebodyhas played the fourhand side, and you
know, Sally is ranked a coupleof ranking spots behind the higher one,

(35:28):
but she's a four hand call player. You guys will gel about it together.
So that also makes a difference.And it's just it honestly, it's
just based on solely on rankings.Who gets picked into the Olympic team.
It is all about the ranking.So you don't have I mean, how
much time would you have to actuallyget a chance to gel with this?
Would it just be Hey, Olympicsare in six months. This is who
your partner is going to be.I mean, would you have time?

(35:50):
I mean you've got four years inbetween the Olympics, right, so being
able to have no idea because theydon't pick the team. They don't pick
the team until about six months beforethe Olympics, so you're really trying to
your crunch time. You've got tofigure this out there on top of the
pressure of trying to win a goldmedal in your home country on probably a
courts that you know about, andhere you are, you've got six months

(36:12):
to figure this out. Well onthat occasion in Sydney two thousand, because
I really wanted to do well,and I was number one in the world,
and I was in the middle ofyou know, a two years swing
there two th ninety nine, twothousand and two thousand and one and two
where I was like one of thebest doubles players, just winning everything,
you know, Grand Slams tournaments,number one in the world, like I
was one of the more most dominantplayers in that in my field for those

(36:36):
five years. So it was inthat occasion I was playing with a player
that I had never played with.I played one match at Billy Jan King
Cup and I said, okay,you know what, I really want to
do well. And she was anamazing singles player as well, top five
in the world, so I thoughtwe could do well, and she was
a very good doubles player, soI said, why don't we play one
tournament together prior to the Olympics,which is what we did. Sadly we

(36:59):
lost first round. It's a reallygood team, but we made I made,
we made an effort to try andplay a tournament before the Olympics because
you do have to have a bitof you have to play together and you
know, Kevin, honestly, I'vealso had lightning and bottle where I've played
with a player I played with myfirst ever Grand Slam that I made,
I played with a player and wemade the final. Like that's rare though,

(37:21):
that you play just a pickup partnerand you make a final of something
as big as the US Open.Um, But that does happen. That
can happen. But that's also aboutpersonality. What's you know it does yea?
Doubles as you know, you canput together a great team, doesn't
mean you're going to be great.Yeah. So you talk about, you
know, wanting to represent your countrythrough you played in four Olympics doing that

(37:45):
and then but you also talk aboutthe winning Wimbledon, Yeah right, the
US Open and the Australian Open.Correct what doubles? Yea? Of all
those of you know, of beingthat, which one meant the most?
Was it winning Australian Open on yourhome soil? Was it? Was it
Wimbledon because it's the biggest. Imean there's a lot that you know,

(38:06):
like you said, trying to dothat, trying to balance that, trying
to balance the Olympics. I mean, it almost seems like you had zero
time for yourself to do this rightwith this pressure and everything else. You
know, it's kind of like,you know, when you're trying to pick
a favorite kid, you kind ofhave one, Yeah, you kind of
have one. You can't really sayit, but I mean, I honestly
I have different feelings for my GrandSlam victories, you know. Obviously winning

(38:30):
my first Grand Slam at Australian Openwas just a feeling that I could not
describe. I mean, it's likewinning a World Series. It's just it's
something you dream about, it happensand you just can't believe it. And
obviously it happened in Australia. Andmy family never traveled to watch me play
once in a blue moon, likeliterally my parents saw me play once at

(38:52):
Wimbledon. Is that winning in frontof my family who were there? Not
all of them were there, butmost of them were there, And it
was absolutely packed, and clearly itwas in Australia, so I had such
terrific support, particularly right at theend of the match. That is a
moment I'll never forget as long asI leave. It was just I got

(39:12):
goose bump right now just sitting therelistening to you talk about this, just
because of what it. Yeah,I was a blubbering mass, you know,
at the trophy ceremony, and Ijust I couldn't believe that I achieved
something that I just I always dreamedabout it, but never quite wasn't quite
sure if I could do. Andthen when it happens, you're like,
my god, and I served thematch out, which you know, it
was on my racket kind of thing. Was kind of like I was the
closer coming in and I did it, you know. Yeah. And then

(39:36):
so that was the special beyond wordsthat I can't describe. But then,
you know, when I had theopportunity the night before when Wimbledon and Lisa
and I said to each other andLisa said to me, and my god,
we Wimbledon champions tomorrow. That isjust a foreign word to me,
Wimbledon champion, Like what because yousaid it is revered? So much in
our world and even for the layman, but don't really follow tennis. Everybody

(39:58):
knows, yeah, you hear thatbold and you want Wimbledon, Like they
don't care if I want all theseother things, So like you want Wimbledon.
So it's like, yeah, Ihad the benefit of winning it twice,
which is even cooler. But thatis a moment that I'm just like,
oh my god, I can't believethat I'm going to be on the
walls of this place. I'm goingto have tickets for the rest of my
life, like I'm lasting like allthe things that make Wimbledon so special.

(40:20):
So they were two very different feelings. And then, you know, and
then when I won it for thesecond time, I didn't win it with
Lisa, won it with another player, Kara Black, and it was her
first Grand Slam and she went onto win like ten or eleven more Grand
Slam. So I was happy thatI was the first to do it with
her, and that meant so muchto me that I was able to help
her win her first Grand Slam.And then when we won the US Open,

(40:43):
that was another different feeling because Iknew how much that meant to Lisa
as an American because he had doneit and helped me win in Australia,
and she knew how much that meantto me to win in Australia. And
then so when she won this USOOpen, I'll just Lisa was not really
into like all the glitz and theglam and the praise and all, but

(41:04):
I know how much it meant toher to win that tournament. So that
was also just made us feel likewe really had to achieved something so incredible
of winning the amount of times wehad at Grand Slam level and for her
to get a US Open under herbelt U and for me to help her
do that. So there was allvery different feelings winning all those different Grand
Slams, but they all they're allspecial in their own way. And but

(41:25):
that Wimbledon title feels pretty damn good. Yeah, And you're right there,
that's someone because we're getting close,right the next couple of weeks, is
it in June? Is that right? So you'll be so you know,
you know you finished, you know, you retire from from tennis of you
know, with this, with everythingthat you've been through, right going in
now going into commentating and you know, doing shows and everything else, What

(41:49):
have you noticed that has changed fromwhen you were sixteen years old to what
you see now? As far asfrom from tennis itself as it has it
Like, you know, we talkedabout baseball, how much analytics have destroyed
baseball right through the It's a onesport, baseball, it can take it
can take over tennis. What doyou say, is there's been a lot
of change as far as the gameitself or or is it just kind of

(42:13):
stayed steady, but it's the numbersare increasing. Um, I think you
know, as far as analytics concernedin tennis, yet we get all the
analytics as well, and you cananalyze a player to death and know their
strength and weaknesses, et cetera.But this this thing called their eye and
as you know name in baseball.Um, I can I still get more
from watching a match and being ableto pick apart a strength and weakness of

(42:36):
a player than I do looking atanalytics. Now, if I put the
analytics towards what I see, thenthat makes me go, Okay, I
was right, Um. But asfar as the tennis, it's just so
good now. I mean, honestly, like I cannot believe the I sit
and watch players now and some matchesand I just my jaw is on the
ground. How good these people canplay the game of tennis. The amount

(43:00):
of rallies that they can play backto back to back, the physicality of
the game, the variety of thegame. It's just unbelievable to me.
I just honestly, I'm in awe. I'm a fan. I don't sit
back and got well. In myday, we wouldn't have missed that shot.
The only thing I will say isin my day we would have made

(43:22):
a way better volley on that becausesome of these players cannot volley. That
is the one thing about tennis notso much, I guess. And the
men's they're still sort of decent,but there's a lot that they can't volley
for absolute at all. They're terrible, So they don't develop their volley game

(43:43):
as much as they should. Andthat's because the groundstrokes are so big now
and they play from the back ofthe court unbelievably, you know. And
back thirty years ago, people couldn'trally like that. They weren't as good
on the baseline, but they werehell of a volleyer. They'd come into
the net like crazy, and Ithink about someone like a Stefana ed Burk
who had them kind of the mostaverage forehand, but my god, that
dude could volley and he was soathletic, and people like Pat Rafter,

(44:06):
I mean Pat Rafter his baseline game, he would get chopped now against the
alcazer Djokovic, but he would outvolley those guys and he would get into
the nat and he would finish plaintstuff. So I guess the only thing
about tennis is yes, it's it'sthe physicality and the rallies and the way
these guys play with the strings nowand the technology being a little bit better.

(44:27):
I could honestly say the only partof the game that has has gone
down is the volume part of thegame. But when you look at someone
like a Carlos Alcarraz, this newnumber one male player, he can do
it all. He can come intothe gnat, he can volley, he's
got all the skills. He's kindof like a Roger Federer as far as
being able to play from all overthe court. But honestly, Kevin,

(44:47):
but I see now after twenty thirtyforty years I've seen it is just how
good everyone is. Yeah, theathletic ability and stuff. So you talkt
about the volley, that is thatI don't know anything about tennis than just
what But is that that's a fundamentalyeah, concept of tennis? So it?
But so what's it? Sounds like? It's the same thing though with

(45:07):
tennis baseball the fundamentals of baseball aregone, learning to run bases, how
to slide. You would think thisthey would understand the volley because you know,
you talk about this new number oneof being an old school type of
player of where okay, you know, if they're gonna the volley, they're
gonna be able to do this becausethey don't other people don't know how to
how to defend it. I mean, so is it? That's that's what

(45:29):
I see, and that's what itsounds like. But explain it. Like
you know, the volleys where youfinish it at the net right, So
you come in and you just finishit off at the net right. So
so if if you hit a reallygreat groundstroke, if like back twenty years
ago, if you had a greatground stroke, you could run into the
net and just finish the volley offright and finish the point off quickly.
There's a little bit of trepidation torun into the net now, because everyone

(45:52):
is so athletic and the groundstrokes areso good that if you don't come in
on something good, you're done.You're going to get past, They're going
to get the ball around you andyou have no chance, or they'll hit
a shot that's so good that youhave to have the most incredible volley to
win the point. So there isa reason why people don't come into the
net and finish the point off atthe net anymore, is because everyone's so

(46:13):
bloody good from the back of thecourt and so athletic and strong. So
so that's the difference, you know. And I've got Tennyson in the background
all the time and I'm watching thisguy just hit a terrible volley for example,
to lose the point, you know. But if you can fundamentally work
on that volley as a kid,it will help you so much. Because
I see someone hit a great shot, their opponent is completely on the run,

(46:37):
completely dead, really doesn't have achance to hit a great shot past
you, and they don't come intothe net, and then then the point
gets reset and then they start therally again, and I'm like, oh
my God, if you just raninto the net behind that and actually could
hit a volley and we're good asa volleyer and understood how to transition into
the net, you would have wonthat point. And then instead he might

(46:58):
win it or she might win itseventeen balls later because they've now reset the
point and played another and becad ofbaseline. But if you had just trusted
yourself to go into the net,you would have won the point. So
there's little bits of there's a reasonwhy that I don't go into the net.
But also at the same time,that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be
working on it as a kid toget it. You have the opportunity or

(47:20):
the availability of a volley that's good. Is that what you see in these
these top the top tier tennis playersmale or female, of having that ability,
Yes, you know, being ableto okay, So that's what separate
So it is, but it almostseems like it's an old school mentality,
you see that because it's it's likea trick, a trick of the trade
type of thing where you would,you know, a long stroke, ground

(47:43):
stroke, but then they're gonna playand then they play the soft up because
they're so afraid of a great ofa great you know, forehand or a
stroke and they just playing it justover the net. And do you see
that? Is that what separates reallythose top players from everybody else certainly,
Um, look, you know youdon't have to You can be Serena Williams
perfect example. Serena will be thefirst for me. If I said her

(48:06):
volleys were not good. Okay,her back end volley in particular was average
at best, and we're talking aboutarguably the greatest player of all time.
You're like, wait a second,she couldn't really volley. I said,
yeah, because her serve was sogood and her groundstrokes were so good and
her speed around the court was sogood that she didn't need to have great
volleys to win matches. Right,So in tennis you don't need you don't

(48:30):
need to have good volleys at allto win. I mean, Egsiontek,
who's number one in the world andsingles right now, probably would rather run
away from the gnat than actually bein at the NAT. Now. She
knows that if she can add andshe knows this, if I can add
a comfort level of when I docome in behind my massive groundstrokes and I'm

(48:52):
comfortable with hitting a volley, Iknow I'm going to be even more difficult
to beat because ultimately, if youdo have the ability to come in behind
those big groundstrokes and you know howto play at the net, Rafa Novak,
Roger al Caraz, all the reallygreat players over the last ten fifteen
years in men's tennis, and there'sa couple in women's tennis. If you

(49:12):
finished Ash Barty number one in theworld. You know who retired last year.
She was great at the net,so she could finish off the great
forehand and come in and just golook with a volley instead of having because
it's much harder to win the pointfrom the baseline. If you're a good
volleyer, it's easy. It's likebunting, right, you should be able
to bunt small balls. It's basicallysmall bods. Yeah, if you can

(49:32):
bunt really really well, oh man, does that add an extra thing to
your right So you line up togo hit that ball and they're like,
oh shit, is he going tobunt? He's a great bunter. We
got to watch that. But ifyou're a terrible bunter, which happens I'm
sure. In baseball and you havethose scouts most of the time, it's
a fundamental that's gone if you're ascout. It. If you're a scout,
you're like, can't bunt, don'tworry about it, right, or
you like, can bunt be careful? So that is an added later layer

(49:57):
to your toolbox repertoire. And intennis it's exactly the same. So you
better make sure that when you're runningfor that ball and they're coming in,
you have to eat a great passingshot because this person is an amazing volure.
But if you're playing somebody who youknow is a terrible volure. As
a coach, I go mate hervolley, do not try and hit a

(50:17):
winner. Okay, So that isalso fundamental to the game, and if
you're a good voluer, it doesadd to your toolbox. Yeah, you
talked about the strength and the speedof the game and how hard these serves
are nowadays, correct, but soreal quick. Just with the double side
of the playing right, because doublesyou don't. Do you play side by
side or do you play staggered.It's all a combination. It can be

(50:40):
stagg good, it can be rightnext to each other, can be on
the baseline, can be both ofthe gnat, can be one at the
nat one in the baseline. There'sall various variations of how you play doubles
and what your strength and witnesses are. And if you're a terrible volure,
you are going to be on thebaseline all the time, and ideally you
want to play if you're a terriblevold, be great to play with somebody
who's good at the neat, becausethat really does make you know that's good.

(51:04):
If you're good at everything, thatmakes a big difference. Like my
double spun at Lisa Raymond. Oneof the reasons why she was so successful
in doubles and one like eighty tournamentson tour is because she was really good
on the baseline and really good atthe net and had a great surf,
so really she didn't have a lotof weaknesses, and that's that's obviously a
massive bonus. I was similar.It wasn't anywhere near as good as Lisa
on the baseline, but I couldplay from back there. But my money

(51:29):
was made coming into the net.Okay, that's I just I just wanted
to the speed of the ball oftrying to charge a net and somebody just
hammer and you hit it hard atme. All it's even better because my
reflexes were probably the best thing thatI had. And if you hit a
ball hard at the net, it'sactually a lot easier to hit. It's
kind of like a fastball is alot easier to hit than you know,

(51:52):
something that's moving right. It's exactlythe same intennis. If you hit something
to me at the gnat's got aton of spin, it's like, oh,
I gotta get my legs down.I got to control my racket head.
The ball is going to hit itin a very awkward way, whereas
if you hit it flatt and hardto me, that's easy. Yeah,
thank you miss Do you miss it? You miss being out there? Or

(52:13):
do you understand it? I playedtwenty two years professionally, so I think
I think I ran my race.But yeah, of course there's times where
I'm like, oh man, Imiss that feeling so much. But I
got it. I thought it alittle bit when I was coaching as well,
and that feeling of helping someone achievesomething terrific and great. Um yeah,

(52:34):
of course, just like you,there are times where you're like,
oh man, I miss that.But then again, I don't miss the
grind. I don't miss the stress. I don't miss the not being able
to eat in the morning because Iwas so nervous about my match later on.
And yeah, so, um,there's thing It ages us, doesn't
it. Yeah, it ages usthat all that stuff ages us and everything
else. But you're right, yousit there and try and watch and some
of it is hard baseball. It'shard for me to watch, you know,

(52:57):
I'll watch some tennis, you know, here and there and seeing all
that. So so now just youknow, commentating and doing this stuff,
traveling. You're still traveling, correct, doing this stuff commentating, travel very
little now this year in particular,Oh really, I've got my well.
I was traveling a lot last yearand every year prior to that, but
this year I just took a jobthis year starting last November with Prime Video

(53:20):
Sports. So I'm doing my ownsports show every day from Monday to Friday
at five o'clock live. So I'mthat's called the Power Hour, is that
correct? The Power Hour? SoI'm in New York and I'm here every
day every week. I have anormal job, so it's kind of like
interesting for me that I'm in aplace for the first time without going Oh

(53:43):
god, I'm going to get ourplane in two days. So it's kind
of been nice. I'll see howI feel about it by the end of
the year if I'm like getting antybecause I've been so nomadic my whole life.
But it is kind of nice tobe in a place not needing to
travel. But I still get Istill got my travel in because I went
to Australia sleep for this train openwith ESPN, and I'm going to Wimbledon
for ESPN, So I still getaway and I still get to go,

(54:06):
you know, see those places andbe around my friends, um still to
this day. So it's nice.I have new balance, right are you
covering you? Are you doing theUS Open as well or not? Yeah?
Yeah, I'm okay, so you'reoh, yeah, I'll be I'll
be in the US Open. Butyou know, I live in New York,
so there's no travel, yeah,which is good. So yeah,
doing that So being able to youknow, doing something you love and you

(54:27):
know you never thought of this asa kid, right, playing professional tennis,
being the commentator and everything else.So I mean, so you know,
to this generation, this new generationof tennis players. You know what
advice could you give that you thatyou have taken from all this to tell
this new generation. Well, Ihave on my arm tattooed the word passion
because I just I live by thatmantra in life. And if you don't

(54:52):
have passion for whatever you're doing,and I mean in anything, everything you're
doing, whether it be the sportthat you choose, the job that you
choose, the partner that you choose, the friends that you choose, all
of it, if you don't havepassion for them for it, you're probably
not going to be happy and you'renot going to be successful at it.

(55:13):
So I think the thing that theonly thing that I could pass on.
Everybody has their own journey to live. And but I would say listen to
your eldest if you're a kid andyou're a young person coming through, particularly
the elders that have gone through whatyou want to go through. For example,
like I really listened to my peersthat were older than me that made
such a difference. And you knowKevin what that's like. And you had,

(55:34):
you know, a player that youlooked up to and he said something
to you that, oh, youwere like, oh, my god,
that's like bold right, Um,yeah, banquet like put that in the
bank and listen to them because therethey've gone through what you're about to go
through and you're going to learn thatlesson. But they're giving you the lesson.
They're telling you right, whether itbe whatever it is, you know,

(55:55):
stop with the shitty attitude. Youknow, have a better reaction to
X. Maybe don't swing it that. You know, with tennis it was
the same. I really once Istarted listening to people that I really respected
and trusted, it made a reallybig difference in my life. But I
would say, have passion for whatyou do. That's the key, and

(56:15):
you will be successful at it.And success is not winning a World Series
or winning a Grand Slam. It'sjust being the best version of whatever you
choose to do. Yeah, andthat's and you know, it's great advice,
like you said, because and eachsport kind of helps us grow depending
on I'm learning. You had togrow up early from what you were taught,
and that's something you've learned. Beingable to pass on so um,

(56:37):
you know, jump it on hereand being able so if people can follow
you or you on social media,I am I'm I'm on Instagram and Twitter
at Renee Stubbs with two ends aeum, and yeah, they can catch
me over there. People find mea little entertaining on Twitter because I'm fairly

(56:58):
outspoken on a lot of stuff.So yeah, I just you know,
it is me. It is theway I should probably put the socials down
sometimes, but I find it funto get involved. But yeah, you
can find me on that, andof course every weekday on the Power Hour
on Prime Video Sports and everybody hasPrime so there's no excuse not to see.
It. Got absolutely yea, Ilooked, I was following you yesterday.
I got it on there just tosee so I could have some good

(57:21):
I had my old doubles partner on, Lisa Raymond, and I had Steve
Nash on yesterday talking about his newapp that he's got going and the NBA
and all kinds and what his futureis and sort of life lessons as a
as a coach and what he teacheshis kids. So it was it was
fun. We'll have Jimmy Connors onin a couple of weeks. I'm going
to break down the French Open drawthat's just come out today today, So

(57:42):
we've got a lot going on.So the next big one, there's what
Wemilton. The next one is theFrench Open is coming up next week,
So French Open without Raphael Nadal.But yeah, it's going to be exciting.
I you know, I get veryexcited and jacked about the Grand Slam.
So the draw literally came out abouttwenty minutes ago, so I'm going
to go, oh perfect, andto decide for the draw down and we

(58:06):
got going next week. Well,Rene, I appreciate you jumping on and
catching up, and like I said, well, I definitely have to follow
up again to see how you know, these next years of your life paying
out and you know what you're doingto see if you get anxious and everything
else. So but I appreciate youjumping on and um, you know,
looking forward to uh to seeing seeingwhere this journey goes and uh in tennis

(58:27):
itself. So you know, Iappreciate it all, and I appreciate it.
Gonna it's gonna win the World Seriesthis year. Come on, give
me one name. I'm figuring.Don't know that the Rangers here are playing
well, your your your rays areplaying well. It's you know, it's
still earlier. They're gonna be somedeadline moves. We don't know. That's
that's the thing. It's just it'sone of those where you know it's still

(58:49):
early, you know where that thisthis whole thing is going to be decided
in the dog days around August.There's that last six eight weeks right when
you're just you see the end andyou're like, this is that grind.
This is what you're built for.That grind right there is what I think
is going to separate these teams tosee what happened. So that's right,
I'd be interesting to say, atleast I don't know, Like you said,
my Rais are playing well, butyou know they started out on fire.

(59:13):
They lost a game twenty to onethe other day, so I don't
know what happened there. But anyway, well, I guess you have bad
days and you're the season for baseballso long that you sometimes you just go,
you know what, I can't dealwith this today, And I think
they had that the other day.But I don't know. I think the
Dodgers race maybe we'll see. We'llcheck in on this come October. My friend