December 23, 2025 • 10 mins
Civil rights attorney Alphonso David joins BIN News anchor Esther Dillard to discuss concerns around proposed changes to fair lending laws and how they could weaken protections against discrimination and limit future housing opportunities for Black Americans if enacted.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
While everyone was concerned about healthcare, grocery prices, and trying
to balance everything through the holidays, Quietly, there has been
a legal challenge that some lawyers say could be devastating
for Black Americans who want to buy a new home
or start a business. Attorney Alfonso David spoke to the
Black Information That Work about it and breaks down the details.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
They're proposing a role that would weaken enforcement of fair
lending locks, and that's going to make it significantly harder
to challenge discrimination in credit and mortgage lending.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
In this edition of The Color Between the Lines, we're
speaking with Alfonso David, one of the nation's most foremost
civil rights attorneys and the president and CEO of the
Global Black Economic Forum. In this conversation, we break down
a proposed rule from the Consumer Financial Protection Journal that
could quietly weaken protections against discriminatory lending, opening a door
(00:56):
to what many experts are calling modern day redlining. We'll
talk about what this rule means for everyday consumers like entrepreneurs,
first time home buyers, and why this moment matters at
a time when civil rights protections are already under pressure.
For people just learning about this, what is the CFPB
(01:19):
proposing and why should everyday consumers be paying attention to this?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So the consumer CFPB, if you will, which is a
consumer financial protection Bureau, it's a federal agency that is
proposing a rule. They're proposing a rule that would weaken
enforcement of fair lending laws, and that's going to make
(01:46):
it significantly harder to challenge discrimination in credit and mortgage lending.
So what I often say to folks when they're asking
about this and what does it really mean, is about
redlining right from the nineteen thirties, where the federal government
(02:06):
and some private actors went through a process of essentially
redlining black and brown neighborhoods. And this practice was it
they created maps of cities and marked black and minority
neighborhoods with red lines, and they labeled those neighborhoods as
being high risk for investment or in some cases hazardous.
(02:31):
So people who lived in those neighborhoods were denied mortgages,
they were denied home improvement loans, they were denied insurance,
while families in the green coded areas received favorable terms.
What the CFPB is proposing here will the effectively implement
modern day redlining. Because they would eliminate what we know
(02:54):
of as disparate impact. And disparate impact is a tool
that has been used for decades that reveals discrimination when
it shows up in outcomes as opposed to intent. So
if you are going out for a mortgage and you
are denied because you're a black woman, you're not able
to show that nine of the other black women are
(03:17):
being denied the same thing. This rule would eliminate disparate impact.
So you would have to show that you were being
denied the mortgage because the lender said something specific to you.
You're not able to show what we think of as
a pattern or a practice where others are being denied
(03:38):
simply because of their gender, or their race, or their ethnicity.
And that's one of the reasons why this rule is
so dangerous, is that it eliminates disparate impact. But there's
something else. It also severely restricts what's called the Special
Purpose Credit Program. Now, this is a rule or a
(03:59):
pro that has been used to close the racial gaps
in home ownership and lending, and they're looking to effectively
newter or eliminate that program. So when we think of
redlining from the nineteen thirties and the nineteen forties understand
that this new rule could effectively implement modern day redlining.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
And what's interesting about it, and when you were explaining it,
is that it feels as if you know, just the
idea of being quote racist, it's a system, So it's
not necessarily a person or how they act or if
(04:45):
they have intent, but it's a system which causes this.
So it reinforces what you're explaining sounds like it reinforces
the old system that was in place before and now
we'll see it again. Is there any way that lawyers
like yourself or those who are in legal circles are
(05:06):
able to combat what they see as an injustice in
the system.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yes, So we are monitoring this rule that is being proposed,
and we're monitoring how this rule may be implemented, and
I think it's fair to say that there may be
legal action taken as a result of this rule being implemented. Secondarily,
we also are looking at states that have their own
(05:37):
local rules that regulate discrimination and lending and credit. And so, yes,
this is a federal agency that's looking to implement a
new rule that will govern federal lending and credit practices.
But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we
live in states, we live in municipalities, we live in cities,
(06:00):
and those states and municipalities and cities have their own
laws that may make it much more difficult for the
federal rule to be implemented in the way that they
want it to be implemented. So we're looking at those
two portals. Right, if this rule is implemented, certainly I
think you can it's fair to say that folks may
challenge it. And then secondarily, we're looking at the laws
(06:22):
that exist that stay at the state level to make
sure that we can protect people. Because this is not
only mortgage lending. This is also small business credit. This
is interest rates. So if you think of a black
entrepreneur with strong revenues and they're denied alone because of
(06:43):
the zip code that their business is in, so the
outcome is exclusion, but they're going to claim that the
policy is neutral because you're living in the zip code
that they have labeled as being high rid.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm when listening to you explain that as well. My
next question, which goes right to my next question, was
about how does this threaten special credit or special purpose
credit programs. And why if you could make it clear
to those who are listening who may not understand why
those programs are essential to closing the racial wealth gap.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes, so the special purpose credit programs were created designed
by Congress to counteract historic exclusion. So they help first
generation home buyers. They offer lower interest rates for folks
that have strong incomes, but their credit credit scores were
(07:48):
suppressed by systemic inequity. So these programs were created to
close the racial wealth gap. And if these programs go away,
we're going to see the racial wealth gap widen even
more than it is. So think of you putting it
in greater context. Martin Luther King gave a speech on
(08:08):
the March on Washington in the nineteen sixties, and at
that time, the racial wealth gap between black and white
people in the United States was eight to one. Today
it is twelve to one.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Wow, that's something.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And if these programs are eliminated, it's going to widen
even more than it is.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
This is happening at a time when many civil rights
protections are already being challenged. Why is this Why is
the timing of this proposal especially concerning?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It is concerning because we're seeing a federal government that
is strategically dismantling programs and systems and regulation and in
some cases statues that were enacted to prohibit discrimination and
(09:09):
try to get us that much closer to equity and equality.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We're going to pause the conversation right here because what
Alfonso explains next gets into what happens after the policy fight.
He talks about where power still exists, and how people
can stay engaged even after the deadlines have passed, and
why silence is exactly what these kinds of rollbacks depend on.
If you want to hear the rest of this conversation
(09:37):
and learn where you can go to get more information,
connect with advocacy efforts, and use your voice. You can
find the full interview on the Color between the Lines.
You can watch it on YouTube, listen on iHeartRadio, or
wherever you get your podcasts, and if you want to
take action right now, you can also visit the Global
Black Economic Forum to learn more about this issue and
(09:57):
find ways to stay engaged, because understand what's happening is
the first step, but staying involved is how change actually happens.
I'm Esther Dillard
While everyone was concerned about healthcare, grocery prices, and trying
to balance everything through the holidays, Quietly, there has been
a legal challenge that some lawyers say could be devastating
for Black Americans who want to buy a new home
or start a business. Attorney Alfonso David spoke to the
Black Information That Work about it and breaks down the details.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
They're proposing a role that would weaken enforcement of fair
lending locks, and that's going to make it significantly harder
to challenge discrimination in credit and mortgage lending.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
In this edition of The Color Between the Lines, we're
speaking with Alfonso David, one of the nation's most foremost
civil rights attorneys and the president and CEO of the
Global Black Economic Forum. In this conversation, we break down
a proposed rule from the Consumer Financial Protection Journal that
could quietly weaken protections against discriminatory lending, opening a door
(00:56):
to what many experts are calling modern day redlining. We'll
talk about what this rule means for everyday consumers like entrepreneurs,
first time home buyers, and why this moment matters at
a time when civil rights protections are already under pressure.
For people just learning about this, what is the CFPB
(01:19):
proposing and why should everyday consumers be paying attention to this?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So the consumer CFPB, if you will, which is a
consumer financial protection Bureau, it's a federal agency that is
proposing a rule. They're proposing a rule that would weaken
enforcement of fair lending laws, and that's going to make
(01:46):
it significantly harder to challenge discrimination in credit and mortgage lending.
So what I often say to folks when they're asking
about this and what does it really mean, is about
redlining right from the nineteen thirties, where the federal government
(02:06):
and some private actors went through a process of essentially
redlining black and brown neighborhoods. And this practice was it
they created maps of cities and marked black and minority
neighborhoods with red lines, and they labeled those neighborhoods as
being high risk for investment or in some cases hazardous.
(02:31):
So people who lived in those neighborhoods were denied mortgages,
they were denied home improvement loans, they were denied insurance,
while families in the green coded areas received favorable terms.
What the CFPB is proposing here will the effectively implement
modern day redlining. Because they would eliminate what we know
(02:54):
of as disparate impact. And disparate impact is a tool
that has been used for decades that reveals discrimination when
it shows up in outcomes as opposed to intent. So
if you are going out for a mortgage and you
are denied because you're a black woman, you're not able
to show that nine of the other black women are
(03:17):
being denied the same thing. This rule would eliminate disparate impact.
So you would have to show that you were being
denied the mortgage because the lender said something specific to you.
You're not able to show what we think of as
a pattern or a practice where others are being denied
(03:38):
simply because of their gender, or their race, or their ethnicity.
And that's one of the reasons why this rule is
so dangerous, is that it eliminates disparate impact. But there's
something else. It also severely restricts what's called the Special
Purpose Credit Program. Now, this is a rule or a
(03:59):
pro that has been used to close the racial gaps
in home ownership and lending, and they're looking to effectively
newter or eliminate that program. So when we think of
redlining from the nineteen thirties and the nineteen forties understand
that this new rule could effectively implement modern day redlining.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
And what's interesting about it, and when you were explaining it,
is that it feels as if you know, just the
idea of being quote racist, it's a system, So it's
not necessarily a person or how they act or if
(04:45):
they have intent, but it's a system which causes this.
So it reinforces what you're explaining sounds like it reinforces
the old system that was in place before and now
we'll see it again. Is there any way that lawyers
like yourself or those who are in legal circles are
(05:06):
able to combat what they see as an injustice in
the system.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yes, So we are monitoring this rule that is being proposed,
and we're monitoring how this rule may be implemented, and
I think it's fair to say that there may be
legal action taken as a result of this rule being implemented. Secondarily,
we also are looking at states that have their own
(05:37):
local rules that regulate discrimination and lending and credit. And so, yes,
this is a federal agency that's looking to implement a
new rule that will govern federal lending and credit practices.
But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we
live in states, we live in municipalities, we live in cities,
(06:00):
and those states and municipalities and cities have their own
laws that may make it much more difficult for the
federal rule to be implemented in the way that they
want it to be implemented. So we're looking at those
two portals. Right, if this rule is implemented, certainly I
think you can it's fair to say that folks may
challenge it. And then secondarily, we're looking at the laws
(06:22):
that exist that stay at the state level to make
sure that we can protect people. Because this is not
only mortgage lending. This is also small business credit. This
is interest rates. So if you think of a black
entrepreneur with strong revenues and they're denied alone because of
(06:43):
the zip code that their business is in, so the
outcome is exclusion, but they're going to claim that the
policy is neutral because you're living in the zip code
that they have labeled as being high rid.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm when listening to you explain that as well. My
next question, which goes right to my next question, was
about how does this threaten special credit or special purpose
credit programs. And why if you could make it clear
to those who are listening who may not understand why
those programs are essential to closing the racial wealth gap.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes, so the special purpose credit programs were created designed
by Congress to counteract historic exclusion. So they help first
generation home buyers. They offer lower interest rates for folks
that have strong incomes, but their credit credit scores were
(07:48):
suppressed by systemic inequity. So these programs were created to
close the racial wealth gap. And if these programs go away,
we're going to see the racial wealth gap widen even
more than it is. So think of you putting it
in greater context. Martin Luther King gave a speech on
(08:08):
the March on Washington in the nineteen sixties, and at
that time, the racial wealth gap between black and white
people in the United States was eight to one. Today
it is twelve to one.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Wow, that's something.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And if these programs are eliminated, it's going to widen
even more than it is.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
This is happening at a time when many civil rights
protections are already being challenged. Why is this Why is
the timing of this proposal especially concerning?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It is concerning because we're seeing a federal government that
is strategically dismantling programs and systems and regulation and in
some cases statues that were enacted to prohibit discrimination and
(09:09):
try to get us that much closer to equity and equality.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We're going to pause the conversation right here because what
Alfonso explains next gets into what happens after the policy fight.
He talks about where power still exists, and how people
can stay engaged even after the deadlines have passed, and
why silence is exactly what these kinds of rollbacks depend on.
If you want to hear the rest of this conversation
(09:37):
and learn where you can go to get more information,
connect with advocacy efforts, and use your voice. You can
find the full interview on the Color between the Lines.
You can watch it on YouTube, listen on iHeartRadio, or
wherever you get your podcasts, and if you want to
take action right now, you can also visit the Global
Black Economic Forum to learn more about this issue and
(09:57):
find ways to stay engaged, because understand what's happening is
the first step, but staying involved is how change actually happens.
I'm Esther Dillard
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