The Black Perspective: April 7, 2024

This week on the Black Perspective, we hear from family members of a legendary civil rights leader, Doug Davis interviews a racial justice activist, and news commentator Roland Martin shares the latest on the protests at Tennessee State University. 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It's Sunday, April seventh, andtoday we meet the family members of an
iconic civil rights leader. Doug Davisbrings us part one of his interview with
a racial justice activist, and wehear updates from news commentator Roland Martin on
the recent protests at Tennessee State University. These stories and more are coming your
way next. Welcome to the BlackPerspective. I'm your host, Mike Island.

(00:20):
Welcome to the Black Perspective, aweekly community affairs program on the Black
Information Network featuring interviews and discussions onissues important to the Black community. Good
Sunday to everyone, and welcome tothe first Sunday in the month of April.
Thanks for joining us for another editionof The Black Perspective. As week
now, they should be fifty sixthanniversary of doctor Martin Luther King, Junior's
assassination. This past week, theBlack Information Network is honored to be able

(00:43):
to spotlight the life and legacy ofanother civil rights hero, one who actually
worked alongside doctor King. The BlackInformation Networks. Andrea Coleman has part one
of her discussion with the children ofthe late Reverend fred Lee Shuttlesworth. Mike
Imagine as a child having your housebombed while you're in it on Christmas Day,
or watching your mother and father beingattacked for trying to enroll you in
an all white school. Those arereal memories for some of the children of

(01:07):
the late Reverend fred Lee Shuttlesworth.Some media accounts placed Reverend Shuttlesworth's contributions to
the civil rights movement on par withthose of the late doctor Martin Luther King,
Junior, especially in Birmingham and thestate of Alabama, and our conversation
with his children, we get aglimpse of what life was like for this
Black history legacy family during the heightof the movement, and how the teachings
of their mother and father helped stealtheir hearts against the hatred and resistance to

(01:30):
equality their family endured. They area group of four introducing themselves in their
order of birth. I'm Patricia,Mais and Gills the oldest. I'm eighty
one. I live in Cincinnati,Ohio. My name is Ruby Frederica Shuttlesworth
Bestered. I stayed with my parentsthe entire time. I went to college
from my parents' home and I gotmarried from my parents' home, so I

(01:55):
was there doing most of what wasgoing on, and when in nineteen sixty
five I married Harold Bester and wehad two children, Andra and Stephen.
We who gave us six grands andthose grand gave us fourteen great grants,
so we are very thankful. Itaught as a teacher, special education teacher,
special education department head for thirty yearsas a teacher twenty seven years as

(02:17):
a department head of special education atPrinceton in the suburbs of Cincinnati, A
wonderful school bred children were a formerschool teacher. We're all form school teacher.
And then there was the youngest,Carolyn Shuttlesworth. I'm an educator as
well. I've taught at the oldestHBCU Cheney as well as Howard University.
They are the children of the lateReverend Fred Lee and Ruby Shuttlesworth. Theirs

(02:39):
is a family of legacy and history, deeply rooted in the Civil rights movement,
which started taking shape for their fatherwhen he became a pastor of a
church in Birmingham in nineteen fifty three. Most people think that the Birmingham story
starts in nineteen sixty three, whenthe four little girls were killed at sixteenth
Street, But that was really aresult of the March on Washington that had

(03:01):
just happened August twenty eight, ofthe month before the Birmingham story started.
And Bethel has a wonderful booklet onit. It all began at Bethel when
Daddy came as a new pastor ofBethel Baptist Church. The first thing he
did was to have Negro a coloredpoliceman hired as colored individuals hired as policemen.

(03:23):
That was when he first came andhe started. And then in fifty
six, because the NAACP was outlawedin Birmingham, he immediately formed June fifty
five the Alabama Christian Movement for HumanRights. We met every Monday night.
A native of Alabama, Reverend Shuttlesworthwould become an integral part of the civil

(03:44):
rights movement, not only in Birminghamand Alabama, but across the country.
He organized and led marches. Hesupported the Montgomery Boss boycott and tried to
desegregate the Birmingham Transit Company. Hefounded the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights
in nineteen fifty six and later wasa leader of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
He was beaten as he tried tointegrate the public schools of Birmingham.

(04:05):
According to his daughter Carolyn, ReverendShuttlesworth also had nine cases relating to the
civil rights movement before the US SupremeCourt at one point during the movement,
and of equal significance. He wasone of the voices people heard at the
March on Washington in nineteen sixty three, which he helped organize and lead.
Freedom belongs to anybody, belongs toeverybody, And until everybody has freedom,

(04:27):
nobody is really freed, beaten,arrested, and harassed numerous times. Historical
accounts of Reverend Shuttlesworth often describe himas a fearless, pioneering giant of the
civil rights movement who gave tirelessly onbehalf of many. But as we learned
from his children, he was firstand foremost a man of God. So
what is it like to be achild of the late Reverend Fred shuttles First,
one of our greatest civil rights heroesof modern times? Well, it's

(04:53):
lived crowd, children of a Riverred shows he did a lot for man,
kind of get a lot of Youcan segregate Alabama and he's just you
know, he and my mom wereboth fantastic people. They brought us up
to be Christians. They brought usup to be loving and kind and to

(05:13):
you unto others always that they wantus to do and we want them to
do to us. So you know, it was a fantastic life for me.
You know, I'm student the othersaf that I'm to get. You
know, I'm proud of both clumping. What led to your father being so
dedicated to the movement. It's loveof God first and it's lessa minister take
care of Gods people, not justblack of color we call color and negroes,

(05:36):
but all people outlawed and they hadto start the SELC. Let me
the Kings in Atlanta, Bui andBirmingham and those since the get together was
s CLC. That's what started Kingssituation. His daddy was a big sup
rethleader in Atlanta. But our organization, the agmh R in Birmingham, the

(06:00):
hold of a thing we started infifty five when WC was outlawed in Alabama.
But then a week he got togetherthe Alahama Christian Movement and that was
June of nineteen fifty five, andthen we were bombed Christmas night of nineteen
fifty six, because Daddy had saidthat he was going to ride the buses

(06:24):
the next day. So we gota Christmas gift of sixteen stiffs of dynamite.
And I said before Deacon Omitted Robinsonwere in the house with us.
Well. When the house was blownup, Carolyn went to live with a
neighbor, a church member that hada child her age, and Pat bred
and I went to live with Auntyand Uncle Josh and in west End,

(06:47):
near the hospital where Daddy died.And then he proceeded to whatever he saw
was wrong, he challenged with alldeliberate speed, the integration of the school.
We took Lord Reverend Phiper, andPiper was the driver of our car
and Nathaniel Lee was the other studentin the car that was to be integrated.

(07:10):
And when we pulled up, thankgod, Howard pa Smith, the
newscaster, was stilming and he filmedDad being beaten with chains, sticks well
brass ingout. My mother was stabbed, the door was closed on my ankle.
We went to do that September offifty seven, and we went to
try to break the law, andthey filed a case Ruby d Rica Schettlberg

(07:34):
versus the Birmingham Board of Education.It took seventh September to sixty three to
integrate the schools there. Well.In fifty seven they came together to join
the SELC and Reverend Jamison was thefirst secretary, but for some reason he
didn't last long and Daddy became asecretary of Reverend King, Remind avenap In

(07:58):
every and the other gentlemen that werethere. But they worked together. It
was CG Vivian, CGPIVI and YTWore and C. K still out of
Florida. But Daddy was stationary becausehe was a minister. Doctor King had
a catery of men that traveled withhim and when anything was going on,

(08:18):
different people came from different cities.Daddy always took Colonel Stone Johnson, the
barber, mister Armstrong, who's childrenare on that thing with him, and
then they would take that Birmingham groupto go to whoever the activities were going
on. But they worked together asa unit, and together they got a
lot of good things. But themain thing was believing in God and being

(08:41):
none by. If we hadn't beenviolent, a lot of people would have
been dead. You know. WhenDaddy went to get the students that were
on the bus and andison that wasburning. He had his people to leave
their guns and a neighbor of themovement because there's nothing we could do with
fifteen guns dollar ammunition that they had. The peaceful and non violent was always

(09:03):
the way. In September, thevery school that beat him down, my
mother was Stare Phillips High School honoredDaddy by naming the Fred Shoulder Auditorium.
It was a beautiful, beautiful occasion. And as a child in that house,

(09:24):
what was it like to have yourhome bombed? I mean, were
you scared? What went through yourminds? We were constantly aware of racism
and the brunt of white anger orwhite backlash as you will. And the
bombing itself was a moment in time. It was very fast. Spread has

(09:45):
a poem he reads about how hewas running touchdowns and boom, it happened
and it was over, and therubble and the smoke and everything. But
we were constantly aware of the whitebacklash both times, like phone calls being
made. We're gonna come back anddo some of the y'all just we can
just just always threats, always thressedwith nobody, uh no, face is

(10:09):
just just just uh voices. Andthen finally the bomb came and a reality
that we had anticipated for a longtime, like the shoe, the shoe
finally failed and we would will notwork. Surprised we anticipated so was not
surprised. Oh, but we havebeen looking forward to it is and that

(10:31):
got us ready to go right onthrough it because we were just told.
These women on the road, whenyou talk about moments like that, it
seems like the natural response would beto hold some kind of angst or anger
or distrust regarding the white community.And after those kind of events, did
that impact their perception of white peoplein any way. We're not allowed to

(10:52):
be angry. That's the whole point. Miss that you missed the whole thing.
We would talk to be time toeverybody, kirse, try to do
you wrong or not. We hadto believe that God would take care of
us. God would provide, andGod would make sure that we were and
we were peaceful. We didn't haveto be afraid because our parents were there.

(11:16):
They weren't acting afraid, they weren'tbeing out. You follow the leader
of parents. If you see thembeing calm, then naturally your children are
going to follow the same pattern.If they were upset, we would have
been upset because we were younger atthe time. But they always taught us
to be nice and kind to everybody, even though even our enemies. So
talk a little bit about your fatherfrom a personal perspective. What do you

(11:37):
most remember of him and what doyou want people to really understand about who
he was and the contributions he personallymade for the rights of all people in
this country. After the bombing,it had a renewed spirit because he said
the Lord brought him through that hehad no fear of any man, that
God had protected him from the bombhad protected them family. So he feared

(12:01):
nobody, and he feared nobody butJesus. And he knew that wherever he
went, wherever he had to go, whatever he had to do, it
would be a success because God isgoing it. That's why, you know,
we didn't get concerned. Because heknew that this was a task that
the Lord had assigned him to do. Desegregation of Alabama and Birmingham especially was

(12:24):
his area of expertise, and hewas going to make sure that he followed
through with the Lord's help. Hedidn't fear anybody was just gonna go on
and do what the Lord led himand the movementso do. One of the
reasons I think he was such acharismatically there is because he was with the
people. He always had a feelingfor the people. One of the things
he insisted on when the Birmingham CivilRights Institute came about was that there be

(12:48):
a day that everybody could come andyou didn't have to pay, because he
had a spirit for the people.Where did that come from? Was his
parents and any way involved in civilrights? Was there any kind of tutelage
or mentor sure that groomed him forthat time leadership? And for so grandfather
was a minister and a strong forcein his life, and his mother was
a woman who always had strong idealsas well. But he believed in God,

(13:13):
and God is the sin of everything, okay, And with him dotting
the Bible on his job every dayhe was a construction worker and he during
his lunch hour he had nothing butthe Bible in his hands, concentrating on
with how he wanted to give hislife to the Lord and do the Lord's
work. And after that bombing,it didn't do anything but solidify more strongly

(13:35):
what he was determined to do andaccomplished. And what about your mother?
Tell us a little bit about yourmother. My mom really was the negotiator
of the family. She's the onethat held everybody together. She directed daddy's
schedule. She knew everything that hadto be done for him. She directed
our schedule. She made us feelas though he was on a mission that

(13:56):
had to be accomplished and without himthings wouldn't happen because he was the leader.
But she made us feel too thatwe weren't just sacrificing our father for
things that are necessary. This wasnecessary for the world to become rid of
segregation, and he was the onewho need it. It wasn't like she
didn't have anything to do with anything. She did everything. She negotiated everything.

(14:18):
She made us feel as though wewere just as important as the movement,
and when there were special occasions likegraduation or birthday, she made sure
he was there. She directed hisschedule and our schedule. Well. One
of the best sources for talking aboutmy mother is Barbara Ransby's book Ela Baker
in the Black Freedom Movement, ARadical Democratic Vision, because she talks about

(14:39):
how mother was a comrade in thestruggle, how she kept the big picture
in mind and how she could helpstrategize. She was on parts of the
activities integrating the train station, forexample, but she was strategists as well.

(15:00):
High school I was in Carboro HighSchool in North bomber Hill and so
we were separated. We went together. Parker High School was where Adela Davis
was at that time. Conde LisaRice was at that time. Deandrew made
the football player Devout Laban was ateeny baby. All these park High School
athletes and Almand High School athletes werea big deal at that time for us

(15:22):
because we were college build people,not Westside people, were just not Birmingham
people, and so it was alwaysa big deal of going back and we
were always riding and it was afilm director of Perial calls Family. We
wrote it every day. You know. He was a pitician too, so
we had a big deal. Alwaysorganized this that My mother was a fire

(15:46):
star general and Jeneral organized situation withone play through another. It was fantastic.
Well, my brother is a poetand he has memorialized all of us,
and he wrote a point about mymother called low Walker Point by our
father called King fitch, told meabout Pat called Gucci slave, told me
about Carol and a baby called MercyBaby, and told me about my husband,

(16:08):
and I call it cutest couple.But ruby K is a poem.
I'm gonna read to you right quick. Ruby K low walker pe can with
a widow's peak, a soothing presence, warm and slow to speak in the
eye of a social storm. Herjoy wants to love her husband, her

(16:29):
girls, her boy, gliding throughthe house any given day, singing,
lead me, guide me, OhLord, I pray, shallowing compliments like
summon rain or clearing one's eye witha finger. Again, she'd rather pensed
and spaint in Southern style, chastising, teasing, you're not gonna smile.
She outdid the children's holiday glee.Let's add some more lights to the Christmas

(16:55):
tree. Rumor has it her giftshad been opened. But oohs and ah
were sincerely spoken. Why is daddyout of pocket? We'd ask, naive
to the breath of his social test. Sweetly and characistically kind, she'd say,
Daddy's got a lot on his mind. Precious jewel, brilliant luster,

(17:15):
parden, a sweet rose cut toosoon from life's garden. Beautiful. He
did that in May of two thousandand five. She left us at the
age of forty eight. In nineteenseventy one, Beautiful, beautiful, kind
Lady Daddy once said, if it'stoo good, rubu qu is not good

(17:37):
enough for fls. Beautiful words writtenin honor of a woman who apparently blessed
her family and joined with her husbandin the civil rights movement to help bless
the lives of millions more. I'mAndrea Coleman on the Black Information Network.
Thanks Andrea, and be sure tojoin us next week for part two of
her exclusive conversation with this iconic civilrights family. Stay tuned, Hey,
black family is dealing with an unimaginabletragedy. A fatal car crash in New

(18:02):
Jersey destroyed their hopes, dreams,and their lives. News anchor Vanessa Tyler
has more and how they need yourhelp. Think of the worst thing that
can happen, then double it,nearly triple it. On March sixteenth,
a tragic double deadly car accident inNew Jersey took the lives of Jamal Stewart's
sister, Shavon Stuart Oliver, hisbrother in law, her husband were Keem

(18:23):
Oliver and his niece, their daughterCameron. She is seventeen and holding on
in a coma Jamal, Welcome,Hi, how are you all? First
of all, how did you hearabout the accident? We got a call
from my sister when she arrived atthe hospital letting us know about the tragic

(18:45):
accident. She contacted my sister,and then my sister contacted my other sister,
Simone, and then my sister Simonecontacted me. I was on a
business trip, but I got onthe first plane I could just to get
to New Jersey so I can bethere with my family. Upon arrival,
we did find out that Rakhem didnot make it, but my sister was

(19:08):
in surgery, and so we justwaited for her to get out of surgery
just to be able to get anunderstanding of what took place and what happened.
She was fortunately and unfortunately coherent throughoutthe entire ordeal, and so she
was able to sort of provide someinformation about the accident what happened. But

(19:33):
more importantly, I wanted to getto the ICU to check on my knees,
to see how she was doing,and to be able to track her
progress to be able to provide thoseupdates to Chavon. How did the accident
happen? I understand it was afive car accident. It was. It
was a five car accident. Mysister and brother in law niece were on
TOO eighty and there was a carthat was coming in the opposite direction that

(20:00):
barreled into my sister and my brotherin law's car at a high rate of
speed. That did that impact didforce the car to flip over multiple times
and it ended up on its roof, and so it made it very difficult
to get out of the vehicle,and so the medics had to sort of

(20:22):
use the jaws of life to geteveryone out. But this is still under
an active investigation, and so aswe continue to get more information from the
Curry Police Department, we'll be ableto inform you more and all those details.
I know. It was early inthe morning. Where was the family
going they were attending. They weregoing to go to Long Island to Hofstra.

(20:48):
My niece, she's a volleyball star, and so they were going to
a volleyball tournament for her. Talka little bit more about your niece,
seventeen year old Cameron, Talk abouther Cameron is an amazing kid. She
gets good grades. She is kind, respectful, super smart, trendy.

(21:11):
She loves sneakers, she loves fashionand music like she would always love to
go to concerts and hang with herfriends and her teammates. She was an
all star athlete. So Cameron startedoff with dance as a young girl,
and as she got older, itmoved into track and field and into volleyball.

(21:36):
And so she's very competitive and justan all around good kid. She
was accepted into Temple University this year, and so this was going to be
a year of many firsts and alot of celebrations, and so we were
looking forward to seeing her go toprom. We were looking forward to her
graduating from high school. We werelooking forward to her going to Temple.

(22:00):
All those things may be delayed rightnow while she is still fighting, but
once she wakes out and I havefull faith and confidence and that she will
make it through this and what shedoes, I will see to it that
she does all of the things thather mother and father set out for her
to do. Chavon Stewart, ofcourse, was your sister. What was
like growing up with Chavon? Youmentioned a number of other siblings. Yep,

(22:25):
So it was just myself shaven andmy sister Simone, So it was
always just us three. But Chavonwas the strong one. She was the
glue that kept everything together. AndI think in moments like these, you
know, words often fall short thattruly captures the depth of the sorrow felt,

(22:48):
because her presence was just so enlighteningand impactful. Her kindness was boundful,
like she literally would light up whenshe walked into it. And so
to no longer have her here isgoing to be a difficult pill to swallow
because I don't know what life islike without her. And she was an

(23:11):
amazing mother. She did everything shecould to make sure that Cameron had a
life that was just full of goodschools, good people, good friends,
academics. Just wanted to make surethat she was exposed to everything. She

(23:32):
took her and Rakim took Cameron onvacations and trips just to make sure that
she could explore the world. Andso she was always just wanted to make
sure that she was setting Cameron upfor success, and that once she did
that, her and Rakim were goingto travel and they were going to see
some world and they were going tocontinue to guide her as she was to

(23:56):
go through her collegiate career. Butthe plan was to try to transition to
the next phase of their life andgo see some new places, try some
new things. You know, thisaccident really just changed a lot, because
while I have an enormous amount oflove for Cameron, I will never be

(24:17):
able to replace Shavon and Rakim.You know, they would go on just
family day trips together. They wouldjust love spending time with each other.
Right Rakim uh he played football backin the day. You know, he
was a tall He was tall andstature, so six three sixty four.
He would love doing tiktoks with hisdaughter, right, TikTok dances. And

(24:38):
so they were extremely close. Andyou mentioned that the family was such a
strong unit. You know, ofcourse Rakim Oliver was a rock solid family
man. And your sister and yourbrother in law, they were about to
celebrate their twentieth wedding anniversary. Yeah, that was going to happen this year.

(25:00):
And so they were going to celebratetheir twentieth wedding anniversary in the Dominican
Republic. And so, as Imentioned earlier about celebrating this year, was
going to be a lot of celebrating, a lot of time with family,
and so we're not obviously going tobe able to see some of those things
through. But I do want tomake sure that we have a beautiful homegoing

(25:22):
service for both Rakim and Chavan,and we're working collaboratively with the Oliver family
just to make sure that we aregoing to have a service that has them
both together. Because they were aunit, they were equally yoked, and
so we just want to make surethat they are both serviced together and then

(25:45):
will continue to build upon their lifeand their legacy. Their memories will forever
live in our hearts and will continueto speak their names and really talk about
the impact that they've made. Rakimwas an amazing individual. He was a
vice president of finance at Wycert Realtor. He was an amazing family man.

(26:07):
He would do anything for his wifeand his daughter. You know, this
family was extremely tight. I can'tstress that enough. And when I think
about all of the memories shared,I don't know if I can ever say
that I've seen you know, Chivanalone, like once they started dating and

(26:27):
they met in the high school.Excuse me, they met in college.
I'm sorry. At William Patterson,and they've been together as soulmates ever since.
You rarely saw one without the other, and so it's definitely going to
be a hard year or hard yearsto come because every milestone, every birthday,

(26:52):
every holiday, they were there,and so to not see them anymore,
it's going to be hard for us. All. We are speaking with
Jamal Stewart sharing the most tragic thingto ever happened to him, the loss
of his sister or husband and nearlyhis niece in a tragic car accident.
It happened March sixteenth. It wasa multi car crash on Road five oweight

(27:18):
in Carney, New Jersey. Whatis the progress for Cameron right now?
Cameron is still fighting, you know, they are constantly monitoring her to check
brain activity and ensuring that she's gettingthe best care. Right now, she's
not much movement, but we arehopeful and prayerful that she's going to pull

(27:40):
through this. It's been a fewweeks and we've known that people who've had
very similar situations have come out ofthis unscathed, and I'm just hoping him
praying that that is the case formy niece. You mentioned some of the
things that you want to do.We're doing this so that you can get
the help to get whatever it isthat you need. Talk about the expenses,

(28:03):
and talk about how our listeners canhelp your family. Well right now,
we do understand that medical insurance forboth Rakaem and Chavon has lapsed at
the end of March, and sowe are still getting the best care possible
for Cameron, and so we havestarted to gofund me just to be able

(28:25):
to start to raise funds to ensurethat she gets continued care. We know
that even if she comes when shecomes out of this excuse me, that
she's going to need a lot oftherapy, and so we do want to
ensure that we're able to afford topay for those things to make sure that
she has the best care possible,and so we have started that GoFundMe to

(28:45):
ensure that we can start to raisethose dollars in support of her care.
I know the goal is five hundredthousand dollars because the need is that great.
That is true. You know,medical expenses are high, and so
she's still in the ICU and hasbeen for the last few weeks ever since

(29:06):
the accident on three sixteen and she'sprobably going to be there for a little
longer, and so we're definitely lookingto continue to make sure that we're not
pulling back on any care that shemay need. We have the best doctors
working on her to ensure that wecan help her pull out of this hopefully,
and Cameron's a fighter. I knowthat she's going to but we'll just

(29:29):
need to make sure that we'll beable to support her financially with all those
medical bills that are going to startto come piling on pretty soon, and
so we just want to make surethat we are raising the funds in support
of I'm ensuring that we can getthose paid once they do. Jamal Stewart,
you and your family are in ourprayers. A special Cameron who is
in a homo with no idea yetthat her parents are gone. Yeah,

(29:53):
I think that's going to be thehard part for me and the family because
we're going to have to be theones to tell her and her life life
will forever be changed, you know, everything that she's become accustomed to,
everything that she's used to, willbe different. And I think we'll cross
that bridge once we get there,but that is a difficult conversation to have,

(30:15):
and I think we'll just have toapproach that collectively with the Stewart and
Oliver family and make sure that weare just wrapping her in our love and
ensuring that she knows that she's gotfamily and the support that she needs to
get through this. It's not easyfor any of us to go through this,
but right now, all of ourefforts are to ensure that Cameron's physical

(30:36):
and mental are number one priority.And again, we're praying for your entire
family. Jamal, thank you,Thank you again. If you would like
to help, Their gofund me islisted under Jamal Stewart's name as they raise
money for this family tragedy. Thefight to control the educational financial future of
Tennessee State University is underway as civilrights leaders and black politicians from the country

(31:00):
have joined forces with students at thisHBCU to protest the recent removal of the
school board members by the state's governor. Black Information Network political commentator Roland Martin
has been following this story and sharesthis update from Tennessee. I'm Roland Martin
here in Nashville, Tennessee, whereearlier today I participated in a news conference
with an array of black organizational leadersfighting on behalf of full funding for Tennessee

(31:26):
State University as well as other HBCUsHere in Tennessee, Republicans just wiped out
the Board of Trustees at Tennessee State, replacing them with new appointees. Our
effort to bring national attention to thecrisis happening here and what we see that
could be happening all across the country. He has, Reverend doctor William J.
Barber of repairs of the breach.History is clear, and my brother

(31:51):
just said, we can't keep begging, right. We have to have legislation,
litigation and agitation. Will y'all saythat with me, legislation, litigation
and agitation. We needed in Kentucky, we need it in Tennessee. We
needed in Mississippi. We needed inVirginia. We needed in Maryland. We

(32:15):
needed in Arkansas. We need inMassonia. We needed in Oklahoma. We
need in South Carolina, we neededin Alabama. We needed in Chorgia,
West Virginia, Louisiana, Texas,Florida, North Carolina. Agitation, litigation
and legislation. Here is Latasha Brownco founders, Black bulla Matters part of

(32:37):
the audit was as a result ofyes, there was housing that the state
they accepted too many students and theyneeded extra housing. Well, in fact,
the University of ut actually had morestudents that they needed and they had
the money. Guess what to purchasedand by a hotel? Why did TSU
have to go to back to thelegislature because of their money that they did

(32:59):
not have two point one billion dollarsand they had to go back to ask
them for resources for the hotel.Perhaps they could have purchased a hotel as
well if they have gotten the twopoint one one for Tennessee State Student Trustee
Sean Wimbley, Junior, Now thefight to prevent the state overreachs for the
board trustees has been lost, ButI'm hopeful for the future of our university.

(33:20):
But new leadership in place. Andthen there's one issue that I have
not mentioned about, and that isthe underfunding crisis that we've seen across the
nation flight HBCUs. So we don'tunderstand we have a bigger battle ahead of
us to make a Mallory co founderuntil freedom. It is not just a
student issue, it is a communityissue. That's the issue and the reason
why we know it's a community issue. I've heard as we were I was

(33:43):
running in I could hear Roland talkingabout the attack in general that is happening
across the board against our communities,the banning of books and the banning of
really our stories in the educational system, the attacks against diversity and inclusion,
the defunding of our programs, voterssuppression. I'm Roland Martin on the Black

(34:07):
Information Network. Thanks Roland, andbe sure to catch Roland Martin daily on
the Black Information NETWORKED for his commentaryon important stories impacting the Black community.
And now let's check in with ourGracie Award winning journalist Esther Dillard for her
weekly segment called The Color Between theLines. I'm Aster Dillard on the Black

(34:29):
Information Network, chatting with writers andauthors who offer an added perspective for our
listeners. This is the Color betweenthe Lines. On this edition of The
Color between the Lines, we're talkingwith a woman that television and film producer
Shonda Rhime has described as one ofthe most influential women in the climate movement.

(34:52):
Her name is mary Anni Anais Hagler, and she is not a scientist.
She is a storyteller. She isthe author of a new book called
Troubled Waters. Welcome miss Handler tothe bi n Thank you, thank you
for having me. Oh, youhave a passion for addressing the issue of
climate change and all the real consequencesthat it brings to the earth and communities

(35:15):
of color. Why did you chooseto write a fictional novel addressing the issue.
Yeah, it's interesting. Actually,Like if you talk to someone who
knew me from high school, somebodywho knew me from college, the idea
of me writing fiction would be like, oh, yeah, that makes total
sense. And because that's kind ofhow I started as a writer, and

(35:37):
you know, as a child alsostarting with poetry and then graduating in the
short stories. And so I've alwayshad like this deep love for fiction.
And the story that I wanted totell was one that I felt like I
had to show and not one thatI had to tell that I could tell.
And so I, you know,most people know me for writing these

(35:58):
nonfiction essays, but they're are allpretty like, they're personal, they're episodic.
There are stories that are told throughthe same sorts of conventions that you
would used to tell, you know, to write a novel. And yeah,
I wanted to talk about just thingsthat I felt like I needed to
build a whole world to tell them. Please explain to our audience what Troubled

(36:20):
Waters is all about. Yeah,so it is. The way that my
mother disguises is that it's for thegenerations, right, So it is in
this story. I wanted to talkabout that kind of age gap, that
generation gap between Black millennials and Blackbaby boomers, right, like, we
were both in a way prepared fora world that didn't exist by the time

(36:43):
we reached adulthood. In the caseof black baby boomers, that's more about
Jim Crow and the fall of JimCrow. And granted, I am not
saying that all of racism, allof systemic racism for sure, was gone
by the time that they were adults. Obviously not, but it was codified
in a very different sort of way. So and then for Black millennials,
we were raised for a world thatwas going to be climactically stable by the

(37:07):
time that we grew up, andit is not. And so many other
things have changed with that too,in terms of the economy. But we
were both prepared for a world thatdidn't exist by the time we were able
to enter it. And as someonewho got into environmentalism, A big part
of my motivation was that I didn'twant My grandfather was a civil rights activist,

(37:30):
and I always felt that it wasunacceptable that the world he fought for
me to be a part of wouldbe unlivable by the time that I got
there. That was unacceptable to me. So it felt like in order to
make myself worthy of the sacrifices thathe made that other generations before me,
it made I had to fight tomake this world Liverpool. And so the
book talks about these two characters are'sCora, the grandmother who as a child

(37:55):
integrated schools in Nashville, Tennessee,which is very much based on my grandfather's
story and especially the story of myaunt Jackie and my mother. My aunt
Jackie was the little girl who integratedthe schools in Nashville, Tennessee. My
mother was almost the little girl whointegrated the schools in Nashville, Tennessee,
but that was in nineteen fifty five. She was a little bit too old
to do it. And then herin the story, Karinn, the granddaughter,

(38:20):
has become an environmental activist, andboth of them kind of feel like
they can't communicate with one another withabout the trouble. Karen can't communicate about
the trouble she sees, and Koracan't communicate about the trouble she's seen.
So Kora is very subsumed by thepast and Karina is very subsumed by the
future, and it's very difficult forthe two of them to meet. And
so part of what I'm talking abouthere is the conversations that you're not qualified

(38:45):
to have with your mother when she'solder than integration. Wow, it's interesting
you kind of answered my next questionbecause I was interested in the fact that
corene and Cora the grandmother are tryingto emotionally grapple with the death of Corenean's
brother, who tragedy lies on anoil boat an the Mississippi River in twenty

(39:05):
thirteen, and that tragedy is someways connected to Kareen's obsession with climate change
herself. Yeah, hoping that maybeyou could kind of maybe kind of pull
the curtain a little bit and explainto the readers what you are hoping that
readers will see with Qureen's quest foranswers for that that connects to our real
world issues. Yeah. So Karmais h She was an environmental studies major

(39:29):
before that, she was already,you know, kind of awake into the
problem of global warming, right becausethis is twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen,
We're not seeing climate change as muchat that point, but she doesn't see
it as much more than a scientificproblem at that point. She doesn't quite
understand who's responsible for it until herbrother dies on the oil boat, and
then she starts to put those thosedots together, and for her, she

(39:52):
is both grieving her brother and theplanet at the exact same time, and
those things come together and it becomesyou know, a lot of people have
this experience. I know I didthis experience with climate grief, where it
becomes so heavy that you will dojust anything to get it off of you.
And so she decides that she wantsto honor her brother's life his legacy

(40:13):
by by mounting this pretty risky actof defiance on a bridge. I don't
want to really reveal too much ofthat, want people to kind of get
into it. I'm Esther Dillard withthe Black Information Network and I'm talking with
author mary Anna eas Hankler about hernew book, Troubled Waters. I know

(40:36):
that many in the black community thatyou know, when I talk to people
over the last couple of years thatI've been with the Black Information Network,
many are not aware of how climatechange is an issue that they should be
concerned about. It kind of feelslike it was other you know. Can
you talk about how how you bringout I guess how you bring up why

(40:57):
why this issue is such an issuefor black folk, and how they why
they should be considering it as partof a cultural issue as well. Yeah,
I mean there's so many reasons,but I think probably the best example
that I can use is just HurricaneKatrina. Now if you look at that,
at that story, like, surethe storm hit the entire you know,

(41:20):
well not the entire Gulf Coast,but the Gulf Coast of Mississippi and
Louisiana. But who suffered worse?Right? So, Like, if we
accept that we live in a worldthat is unequal, we live in a
world where systemic racism is ingrained intoeverything. Now, so the game is
already rigged, and then you throwin climate change, Now you have rigged
the playing field. And so howdo we think that is going to turn
out? Like, how do wethink if climate change is going to limit

(41:44):
resources. What do we think isgoing to happen to us in a world
with more limited resources for everyone?Right like that that doesn't work out in
our favor. So, and there'salso all sorts of corners of the white
supremacy movement that you know, wehave these militias that are organizing themselves,
a lot of them based on thesame sorts of militias that were running roughshot

(42:04):
around New Orleans shooting black men forsport after Hurricane Katrina. That has gotten
amped up to twenty and then theyare preparing themselves for climate change. Some
of them are excited about climate changebecause it will bring about this race war
that they have literally been waiting onsince the last Civil War. So that
doesn't look great for us. There'salso the fact that climate change is affecting

(42:28):
us right now. It's just thatwhen climate change is already such a part
of your lived experience, you mightnot call it by its proper name.
You might call it things like canceralley, you might call it things like
asthma. You might call it thingslike police brutality. Right like, So,
if we accept that and the scienceshows this that heat increases violence,
and that includes state violence. Idon't think it's an accident that in the

(42:52):
summer of twenty twenty there was suchstrong repression from the state, from the
police toward protesters that summer, andit was also crazy hot that summer.
Those things tend to coincide. Andif we look at, you know,
the overincarceration of black people, whatdo we think extreme weather looks like in
prison? Extreme heat can kill youvery very quickly when you live in a
concrete box. So then there's alsothe sighting of fossil fuel infrastructure, which

(43:16):
is extraordinarily dangerous and noxious. Itpoisons land, air, water, all
of it. It gives people asthma, it gives people all sorts of cancers,
thus cancer alley. Those things arecited often near black and brown communities
and also indigenous communities. So we'reprobably calling it things like, you know,

(43:37):
the oil rigged down the street,but it's really it is part and
parcel of climate change. So Ithink Black people actually are concerned about climate
change, but we probably just don'thave the time to call it climate change
because we have this very specific thingin front of us. But we've always
cared about the planet. We've alwayscared about about climate, whether we call
it that or not labeling. Yeah, I wanted to say that the book

(44:00):
definitely, you know, congratulations onthe book one, because it's a while
to put together a book, andit reads very easily. When you read.
You can blast through that first chapterso very well. It reads very
much like a movie. You canvisualize it, you can hear the music,
you flavor it with music from theradio, and you can mentione the
sites the smells while reading. Arethere plans that you may have to adopt

(44:23):
this into a film, because itreally does feel like you're watching it.
I would certainly be open to thatconversation with the right you know, producer,
the right crew. The story isone that is very very dear to
me because there's so much of myfamily and my roots involved in it.
So I wouldn't trust it with justanybody, but I think it could be

(44:46):
really great to see it, tosee it on screen. So if someone's
talking to me about that, let'stalk. Well, after someone reads this
book, likely they have been awakened, like you said before, with a
lot of information, maybe feel overwhelmed, feel like what can I do about
it? What do you say tothat person? Yeah, I say it,

(45:07):
lean into your strengths, so Ithink, and also don't listen to
you know, a lot of people, a lot of people told me writing
a novel would do nothing for it. But that's what I'm good at.
You know. When I first startedwriting essays about climate change, I heard
a lot of like, well,why are you being so lazy? And
you should write about the science ofit, And it's like, well,
I think there are people doing that, right. So I think that we

(45:29):
have a lot of people fighting theclimate fight, but we don't have you,
whoever, that is right, andso whatever unique thing that you bring
to this fight, I can't waitto see it, and I also can't
quite tell you what it is.So my advice is always do what you're
good at and do your best right. I think a lot of people get
very intimidated about acting on climate becausethey feel like they've only got one shot

(45:52):
to get it right, and they'reso worried about getting it wrong. Oh
no, this is a lifetime practice. It is the exact same way that
we would approach, you know,fighting racism or anything else. Like,
no one ever thinks that you goto one march, you shan't one slogan.
You brought one sign and then yougot to nail it that one time,
and that's it. That's not youknow, the way that climate works

(46:13):
either. That actually was another parallelthat was trying to draw with the with
the novel, you know, liketo show that school desegregation, just to
take one piece of the civil rightsmovement was a long slog right, Like
I think people often think of itin terms of these big climactic events because
those are the ones that we hearabout in stories over and over again.
But it really took a long commitmentand some of it was just straight up

(46:37):
mundane and banal, but also justlike death by a thousand cuts at the
same time. So I wanted toparallel that with with climate action as well.
That is not these big dramatic actionssometimes are not the things that we
need to be remembering. I thinkwe're gonna have to leave it there.
Is wonderful talking to you, MaryAnna east Aigler for so much for sharing

(47:01):
us, Thanks for sharing so muchon the bi in and I hope to
talk to you again soon and you'llhave something new on the table, because
I understand you have another novel kindof working on something. Yeah, yes,
yes I do. I also havea children's book that is coming out
in February. So awesome. SoI've been busy. Oh wow. So
I look forward to talking to youagain about some of your new projects because

(47:23):
a lot of people would love toread some of your wonderful work. Because
this is definitely an interesting read andit is inspiring. So I appreciate you.
Thank you. Well, that's itfor this edition of the column.
Between the lines, I'm mister Dillardand the book is Troubled Waters. Hope
you can read it. I'm misterDillard on the Black inspecial line. Thanks

(47:50):
esther bi In news commentator Moe Kellyhas been following the Sean P. Diddy
case for US and joins us nowwith his thoughts and reflections on the latest
news surrounding Mogul. I'm mo Kellyon Vin with your two minute warning to
it like a mass of post.Knew you was the one. That's why
I showed Judge could you get downfor those viand first it was sug Knight.

(48:15):
Now R Kelly has something to sayabout the Dibby allegations or not?
This ought to be good. RKelly, No relation, said in a
phone call interview, he didn't believeany of the allegations against Diddy. But
what's even more curious, Kelly condemnedthose making fun of the situation, and
one that those very satan people couldfind themselves in peril of their own soon.
Huh. First, R. Kellyhas no business passing out life advice

(48:37):
to anyone for any reason. Second, when you're in prison, likely for
the rest of your life, thereis no moral high ground in your zip
code. It wasn't because of badluck or even karma that he is in
prison, or sug Knight is inprison, or Diddy may eventually be in
prison. It's because of horrific crimeswhich were proven beyond a reasonable doubt in
a court of law. It doesnot matter if I make a joke about

(48:58):
Didny Shug or R. Kelly.There are no child pornography charges in my
future. I'm pretty sure I cango out on a limb on that one.
There are no rape and kidnapping chargesin my future. I know bold
prediction, right. I'm playing withfire and tipting faith or not, and
that won't change if I should decideto have fun at Ditty's expense. But
I do agree this is no laughingmatter and we're not fooled. Kels saying

(49:19):
you don't believe the allegations against Diddymeans absolutely zero. I know you want
to create this supposed bond with Dittyof unjust treatment and you music celebrities are
being wrongly prosecuted, but we're notfalling for it. You are Kelly earned
your last address for life, andjust maybe so has Diddy. I'm O
Kelly at mister mo Kelly on socialmedia, and that's your two minute warning
on the Black Information Network. ThanksMO. News anchor Doug Davis is back

(49:45):
with a Philly based racial justice activistand former city council candidate who says his
structural racism bill that was presented tothe council can remedy gun violence in the
city. He sitesay two thousand andone report produced by the City of Philadelphia
called the road Map is Safer Communitiesthat spells out how to fix the structures
of racism and how he believes thecity is not living up to its commitment.

(50:06):
Doug, take it away, ThanksMike. This is Doug Davis.
Not long ago, Philadelphia racial justiceactivists and former candidate for City Council.
Obona Hagen's presented a bill to cityCouncil called the Structural Racism Bill twenty twenty
four. The bill spells out howstructural racism was identified by the United States
Congress after the Civil War. Hagen'saddress city Council during a meeting on how

(50:28):
his bill can help eliminate and stopgun violence in Philly. Obana Hagens is
back with us to talk more aboutthe bill again. Welcome back to the
VII in we left off with youexplaining how significant your bill is as it
relates to the Civil Rights Act ofeighteen sixty six and the Thirteenth Amendment.
And you also spoke about a twentyoh one report that the City of Philadelphia
put together about gun violence and howstructural racism is the cause. You feel

(50:52):
that the city is not living upto the report and they're just putting band
aids on the big problem of gunviolence and crime in our communities. Again,
welcome back to the bil All right, Doug, thank you appreciate it.
The promise of the thirteenth Amendment hasnever been fulfilled because that's where the
power is. That's what made usequal. See the Thirteenth Amendment was supposed

(51:15):
to make us equal to white people. So whatever a white person had,
so let's say a hospital, wewere supposed to have a hospital as equal
as them as well. And duringreconstruction we had that, we had the
Freedman hospitals, and we didn't havethe health disparities that we have today.

(51:37):
So we want the equality that ispromised based on the thirteenth Amendment, and
we also want the badges, vestiges, and incidences the custom of slavery to
be identified. So slavery was nota law. Slavery was a custom nobody.

(51:58):
It was never written in the Institutionthat people from Africa who are here
are going to be slaves. Itwas a custom. So all of those
things that we're customs of slavery aresupposed to be gone, but we don't
have that. It's become customary forus to get inferior healthcare. It's become

(52:20):
customary for us to go to badschools, it's become customary for us to
live in the so called ghetto.And all of those things are badges of
slavery and they have to be abolished, but they're not going to be abolished
if the people who they are fourdon't know what they are. So this
Structural Racism Bill is not only toaddress the gun violence in Philadelphia, but

(52:45):
it's also to fulfill most importantly,it's to fulfill the promise of the thirteenth
Amendment. We should not be livingin ghettos. We should not be going
to inferior schools if we're equal.Right, So, what policies do you
think are essential for addressing systemic issuesfaced by Black Americans today? Well,

(53:07):
the policies are in the Structural RacismBuild. This Structural Racism Build. It
could be used in every and itshould be used and adopted by in every
major city where there are descendants ofslaves. So fulfilling this bill, what
do we ask for? We askfor large scale investments in the areas that

(53:30):
have been decimated. Why has itbecome customary for where the descendants of slaves
live to always live in the ghetto. That because we've accepted it, But
we don't understand that that was thesame custom during slavery. Where did the
slaves live? They lived in theworst part of the plantation. Where did

(53:51):
the white folks live? They livedin the big house and the best part
of the plantation. And us livingin the ghetto is a violation of our
thirteenth Amendment rights to be made equal. We helped this country defeat the Confederate
So and that was the promise thathad never been fulfilled. Now it was
fulfilled when we developed the black wallstreets. For what happened then the white

(54:16):
boys came in and burned everything down. So even when we did it,
and coincidentally, we had the Freedmanschools, the Freedman hospitals, the Freedman
banks, we had successful cities,thriving, no crime, didn't even have
any jails because we had what weneeded. And today we don't have what

(54:38):
we need. And that's why there'sso much crime and violence and gun violence
in primarily the ghettos of America,right right, right, So elaborate if
you can on how you believe federalinvestment in poor black neighborhoods could directly impact
the reduction of violence in Philadelphia,like you just said, across the country.

(55:00):
Okay, So I live in SouthPhiladelphia and one of the richest areas
of the city, and I don'twant people to think, oh, this
brother is out here, you know, balling. No, I moved out
here thirty eight years ago when nobodywanted to live here and it was rapidly
gentrified, which is a violation eithera violation as well, but that's another

(55:23):
story. But so I live inthis area. Everybody in this area has
good educations. They went to goodschools, their parents went to good schools,
they have good jobs, they havegreat schools to send their children to.
And then in comparison, I driveless than five miles to where my

(55:45):
mom lives, and it's poverty,unemployment, it's trash everywhere, the jobs
are not there. It's crime andviolence every day. I hear gunshots every
time I go around my mom's house. I never hear gunshots in my area.
So why is that? Because inmy area, people have money,

(56:07):
they have great jobs, they haveopportunities, right, they had good educations.
In the hood, we get subpar educations and every year we don't
meet the proficiency of rates. Soit's no wonder that there's so much crime
and violence in those areas. Andif you look at crime and violence around

(56:30):
the world, wherever there's poverty,whenever there's unemployment, you have crime and
violence. It's not unique of justwhere American freedmen lives. It's the conditions.
Your your environment affects your actions.So if the environment is all messy,

(56:51):
your actions are going to be allmessy. If you didn't get a
good education and they put they justpush you out of school, then how
do you expect it to achieve anything. Six out of ten people who graduate
from Philadelphia public schools can't read,write, or do math on a high
school level. And that's primarily youknow, in the in the in the
black areas. And mister Hagen,so again, what do you suggest.

(57:13):
So so we gotta build new schools, we gotta build new hospitals. We
have to have large scale investments,like the study said, in the areas
that have been decimated. And howdo we get those large scale investments.
We get what's called a community developmentfinancial institution. We should have those throughout

(57:34):
the city of Philadelphia. But wedon't hear our politicians talking about that.
What we hear our politicians doing isgiving out food once a week, giving
out air conditioners in the summer tothe seniors, giving giving our bicycles to
the to the children during the areaduring the during the summer. Basically,
basically, it's just you know whatI like to call it is this as

(57:57):
as I call it. In thecity council meeting, they're giving aspirins for
brain tumor situations. Gun violence isa brain tumor. The structural racism is
a brain tumor. And the CityCouncil of Philadelphia and the mayor they're offering
aspirinks. Imagine you go to thehospital, you got a tumor. You

(58:20):
want to expect the doctor to giveyou an aspirin for your brain tumor.
You want them to immediately eradicate thatbrain tumor. I want the City of
Philadelphia to use their power to eradicatestructural racism, build up the American freedman,
and in the process, this wholecity will frive. Obona Hagen's We're
gonna have to bring you back fora part two. In the meantime,

(58:43):
let folks know how they can getin contact with you. You can call
me two sixty seven seven eight zerozero one one two again. The number
is two sixty seven seven eight zerozero one one two. You can email
me Obonahagens at gmail dot com.Bo n N A H A G I

(59:05):
N s at gmail dot com.I'm on Facebook. Obona Hagen and yeah,
you can reach me. I'll welcomeyou to call me. All the
freedom fighters out there, all thepeople who want a real platform to run
on, and you really care aboutthe descendants of slaves, the progeny of
the emancipated, contact me. Thanks, man, appreciate that this is Doug

(59:28):
Davis and you're listening to the BlackPerspective. Thanks Doug, And that's our
program for this week on behalf ofthe entire team at the Black Information Network.
I'm Mike Island, wishing everyone awonderful Sunday. Thanks for listening,
and be sure to join us nextweek at this time for another edition of
the Black Perspective right here on theBlack Information Network.