The Black Perspective: August 17, 2025

This week on the Black Perspective, we dive into stories that spotlight health, culture, and love across the Black community.

Andrea Coleman continues her powerful public awareness campaign, Saving Black Moms: A Maternal Health Crisis, shedding light on the urgent fight to protect Black mothers. Katie Gray returns with Part 2 of her conversation with Georgia State Senator Drew Echols on the Tourism Study Committee and its impact on Georgia’s economy and communities.

The Black Information Network’s Esther Dillard sits down with Emmy-nominated filmmaker Contessa Gayles to discuss her new documentary, The Debutantes, and the stories it brings to light.

Plus, Vanessa Tyler gives us a sneak peek of her Blackland podcast, and Misty Jordan shares the story of a couple whose journey defines the true meaning of “love is blind.”

Listen now!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Sunday, August seventeenth, and on today's show, The Black
Information Networks, Andrea Coleman is back with her special public
awareness campaign, Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis. Katie
Gray returns with part two of her interview with the
Georgia Tourism Study Committee with Senator Drew Eckels, discussing the
impact of tourism in Georgia. The Black Information Networks Esther

(00:20):
Dillard sat down with Emmy nominated filmmaker Contessa Gals to
talk about her new documentary, The Debutants. We get a
sneak peak of Vanessa Tyler's black Land podcast. These stories
and more are coming your way on today's program, Welcome
to the Black Perspective. I'm your host, Mike Island.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome to the Black Perspective, a weekly community affairs program
on the Black Information Network featuring interviews and discussions on
issues important to the Black community.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Good Sunday, everyone, I'm Mike Island and Welcome to the
Black Perspective. Imagine losing a daughter, wife, sister, or friend
during childbirth one of the happiest, most wondrous experiences in life.
Every year, that heartbreaking Cinne plays out in the lives
of hundreds, if not thousands of people. As the Black
Information Networks special public awareness campaign Saving Black Moms a

(01:08):
Maternal Health Crisis continues, we take a look at the
impact maternal deaths have on surviving family members and loved
ones and how community members can help them manage the
changes that such losses bring. Here's the Black Information That Works,
Andrea Coleman.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Incidents of maternal mortality can affect the lives of a
lot of people, especially surviving children.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
I think this is an important piece to consider with
Black maternal health, with what happens now that this mom
is no longer there to be a mother, right just
on that aspect, the impact that it has on the
children and their understanding of what happened to mom and

(01:53):
what caused the death. What concerns me about that narrative
is the content you'd message that our black bodies don't matter,
that black life itself isn't important enough to intervene and
support and save a life. That what we're learning through

(02:16):
Black maternal health, most of the time it's preventable. So
how that then impacts a child's understanding of their own life,
and how that then impacts their emotional wellbeing, and then
we have to think about this child now entering the
school system, entering the workforce, right making decisions about their body.

(02:42):
It's now all informed by the loss of their mother
in this way.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Casey Polite is a CEO of Biola's House, Some maternal
support services organization headquartered in Dallas, Texas. She's also a
mental health professional who understands the dynamics at play when
a mother dies during our within a year after giving birth,
especially for her surviving children and her loved ones who
are often called upon to help raise her children.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Do now have grandparents other family members that have to
step in and raise children and that was not part
of their plan. So thinking about how that then impacts
the child raising process with someone who never intended on

(03:27):
raising this child or these children, again, I automatically go
to the emotional and the behavioral impact that that has,
what's being projected onto that child. Right when we think
about the children that may look just like mom that died,

(03:48):
and the caregiver's ability to manage their own grief and
understanding of that process when they're looking at a child
that reminds them of someone that is no longer here, right,
and then we have to think about how does that
inform parenting. We have to look at generational issues, right,
it's now potentially a generation or a person that again

(04:14):
was maybe not be prepared to take on that responsibility.
And we know that the matriarch of families right historically
within our culture plays a very significant role in our communities.
And the challenge too is what happens when there isn't

(04:37):
a father there. So if the mom is gone and
the father was absent, we have a huge gap.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
It just seems like many of us would not really
be prepared to handle our step in the gap, to
feel the void that child is experiencing. How do we
shure that.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Up absolutely no, that care or needs just as much
support and nurturing as the child that lost their mom,
because again, they are likely grieving, they have unanswered questions,
and they're going to need their own mental health support,

(05:21):
education related to parenting right at this point, again if
someone hadn't planned on doing it. But I think particularly
education around attachment. So if we've removed the attachment that
is supposed to be happening with a child and mom, right,
we know from research that our babies require a certain

(05:48):
amount of time with skin to skin contact to create
certain hormones and triggers to be going off in brain
and brain development, which then impacts attachment styles. Right, and
we want to create secure attachments. But now we've created
an additional challenge for this child to create a secure
attachment because they are now attaching to someone who's belly

(06:12):
they weren't a part of, right. And so I think
the education around particularly the expression of love by the
caregiver and what it means to bond with that child
is something that doesn't just come naturally, like we have
to provide that level of education and support to the

(06:33):
caregivers in order to do that in a very effective way,
because if not, we have a domino effect of children
who are growing up with insecure attachments or anxious attachments
because of that lat right, and we know that that
comes with a whole other set of issues with development.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Let's talk, if we can, just for a moment two
about the spouse. You know, oftentimes a father's one who
is left raising them when there are it's the two
parent pregnancy with the support of a loving spouse or partner.
The impact on that father, that supporting spouse, what might
that look like for them, and what is a logical

(07:14):
and reasonable expectation for grieving and mourning the loss of
that mom.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, so I think it's important when we talk about grief,
it is recognizing that not only is it phases that
people go through, but there is no amount of time
that someone has officially grieved the loss of a loved one.
So it's important for family members, community members not to

(07:43):
pressure dad to kind of have his grief resolved in
a certain amount of time because it's very unfair for
his process right to go through that. And he's also
now has this added responsibility of raising a child by himself,

(08:06):
right without mom and really at a critical time as
an infant. And we know with black maternal health, we
lose moms within that first year, so we have to
think about there are moms that we lose that it
wasn't during childbirth, it's six months later, right, and so
there has already been some bonding that's happened, There's already

(08:29):
been an established routine and maybe breastfeeding and things like that.
And so now we've interrupted all of that and now
asking dad to come in. And then if you think
about dads that might have been raised by single moms
or maybe just not in a two parent household, and
how their story now informs how they parent and grieve.

(08:55):
So that village perspective is extremely important for these dads.
And again, often if they are the main provider of
the household, may still have a lot of absent time
from this child and have to rely on other caregivers
within their village to help support raising the child.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
It really is complicated, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
It's so many layers, so many layers, yes.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
And all of that spills out into society and people
have no idea the impact that it's having at every
stage of life.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
For all of this, absolutely, because we're also looking at
the physical impact of grief and loss and some of
the medical issues not just mental health, but medical issues
that a dad can develop as they're dealing with stress. Right,
And then if we think about our community and some

(09:52):
of the predispositions that we have as Black Americans to
heart issues and diet and all these other things, thinking
about how that also impacts dad, and then that then
creates more complexity for raising the child, spending time with them,
going outside doing things if they're also managing health issues

(10:15):
in addition to mental health issues right, and then also
financial strain right. So that's why this is a crisis.
That's why this is such an important issue for everyone
to accept. Is an issue because so many people are
impacted by the loss of a black mom.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Anyone who has experienced a loss of a mom and
is now raising those children, maybe feeling a bit of
frustration and or even resentment regarding the loss, or even
trying to come to terms with whatever they're feeling regarding
grief the morning process. Any words of encouragement, insight that
you can give them, and even maybe some tips on
what they may need to do to make certain they're

(10:59):
taking care of themselves.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Absolutely, So, what I would share with everyone that's listening
that's a caregiver and is feeling the mixed emotions of
frustration and grief along with gratitude and appreciation for the
child's life and even their opportunity to care for the child,

(11:21):
is to recognize that two emotions can coexist and you
don't have to lean into one or feel like you're
minimizing another part of you feel all the feelings and
recognize that through conversation with people that you trust about
how you're feeling isn't a burden for them. It's an
outlet for you to get support and to process your emotions,

(11:46):
and that as a caregiver, I don't want you to
feel like you're burdening others. If it's a burden, let
them tell you it is, and I guarantee you they
won't tell you that it is. So don't project that
on to other people. I don't want to worry them.
They are already dealing with a lot. But so were
you right? And so if someone says let me know

(12:09):
how I can help, remember that person and when you
need help, ask for it. Let them make the decision,
don't make the decision for them. I think also it's
important to be intentional about your self care. I like
to consider it self love activities like things that you
can do that while doing them, you're communicating to yourself

(12:33):
I care about you. That's what true self care really does.
You get to model that for the child because they're
watching you, So it's going to be important for you
to do it for yourself. But I want you to
know that you're also teaching the child how important it
is to care for self, to be fueled to care
for someone else, and even if that self care takes

(12:56):
you away from that child for a few hours, that
it's important for you to have that time so that
you can be restored and refreshed when you step back
into that role as a caregiver.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
And that modeling of wellness may help the surviving children
as they mature and look to address any lingering impacts
of their mother's passing, which, as Casey mentioned earlier, can
stick around for a long time. I'm Andrea Coleman on
the Black Information Network.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Thanks Andrea. As saving Black Moms say maternal health crisis continues,
we shift our focus to people in organizations helping black
moms secure and protect their health during and after pregnancy.
Learn more at binnews dot com. Now we hear part
two of Katie Gray's interview with the Georgia Tourism Study
Committee and Senator Drew Eccles discussing the impact of tourism

(13:45):
in Georgia.

Speaker 5 (13:45):
Okay, so, Drew, tell me about the initiatives that are
going to be planned on focusing on the impacts of tourism.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Well, if you don't mind, I'm going to go back
to kind of what why interest me, and then I'll
get into that. I think so my father in law,
he previously he owned the thirty eight charter buses and
they hauled people all over the southeast, all over the country,
really some tours up into Canada. So Shelley and I

(14:14):
got a taste of tourism and traveling that Shelley owned
a student travel company and I own a farm myself,
my father and my uncle. We bought my granddad out.
We own a farm in North Georgia and we have
a huge roadside marketing. For years and years, you know,
I kind of prided myself in being a farmer, but

(14:35):
I started realizing, you know, the more tags you look
at out in the parking lot. Our farm truly has
over the past fifteen years or so become a destination.
And from my experience, personal experience there with the farm,
we were look people were already visiting Georgia prior to
twenty twenty. I'm not naive to that, but I do

(14:58):
think when Governor Camp opened us up, you know, before
any anyone else opened our state up, more people came.
They and they found us, so to speak, and they
love Georgia. They love our coasts, they love our mountains,
our rivers, our farms and all of our sports teams,
just all the different things. So I feel like it's

(15:19):
been a while since the state legislature has looked into
tourism as an industry. It is the the number two
industry in the State of Georgia. So not hardly as
sexy as a big Hyundai factory or something like that,
but but it is it is worth noting, and I

(15:41):
think the Study Committee is gonna that's what we're gonna
try to do.

Speaker 6 (15:43):
We're gonna try to help the industry in a way.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Too, as the goal is to really be.

Speaker 5 (15:49):
Able to pinpoint all of those elements on you know,
peace that you're talking about, you know, being able to
impact it and see a difference in the short term
and the long term.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, I think so, I feel like that tourism. You know,
I'm I'm a I'm a farmer and a senator, so
I don't have all the the data.

Speaker 6 (16:10):
Right in front of me.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
We're working on it right now as we speak, uh
to kick off this study committee. But I feel like
that the money that the State of Georgia invests in
marketing for tourism or invest in parks and things like that,
it's some of the I'm not going to say it's
the easiest money to track, but it is we can

(16:31):
track it faster than we can uh, you know, is
it a positive, is it a negative?

Speaker 6 (16:38):
Is the r o I.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Bigger than a factory or or or something like that.
So I do think that, you know, marketing tourism and
any kind of uh incentives that we can give that industry.
I think that it is a shot in the arm
to the economy. And I personally, I think we see
it quickly, and I feel like that's one of the
things that the study committee is going to find out

(17:03):
over the next couple of weeks up months.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
It's also interesting, I want to circle back. I was
taking notes as you were speaking. I thought it was
really interesting how you mentioned, you know, in the last
couple of years us seeing more of maybe a boost
in certain areas than others. Because I will say also
as a Georgia and you know, you when you think
tourism and you think certain destinations, like certain highlights in
the state kind of come to mind, do you think

(17:28):
that this initiative in the study could also show so
many other places that a lot of people that maybe
you know, if they're not from here, they don't know
about and that we can kind of put on the
map and you know, show so much more of the
aspects of how much more Georgia has to offer.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, we're definitely we're going to put the spotlight on
the state of Georgia.

Speaker 6 (17:49):
But I think I think you're right. I think some
of the treasures.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
The rural treasures, the urban treasures out here all over
the state that are typically not looked at. I think
I feel like I've given this example to some folks
here in the past couple of weeks with this Tourism
Study Committee. I feel like I'm out on a deep
sea fishing trip and I've got my fish fishing rod,
i got the hook thrown out in the water, and
I've got a hold of something and I'm trying to

(18:14):
rile it in and it's so big it's moving the bait.
Communities from all over the state have reached out. Unfortunately,
we can't have but four meetings. You know, I would
love to be able to go to every single corner
of the state of Georgia and visit every single county,
but I cannot believe the overwhelming support for this study committee.

(18:36):
Thomasville wanted to host Lagrange nowon. And but there again,
we can't go to all of these places, so we
had to narrow it down, get sort of somewhat regional.

Speaker 6 (18:48):
In our planning. And I do. I think you're right.
I think we're gonna uncover some gems that are off
the beaten path, so to speak. I think it's a
great way.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Tourism is a phenomenal way for these local communities. It's
a it's a great industry for them to embrace because
it's not the it's not the largest drain on infrastructure.
I mean, people come in, they visit, they do the
activities or whatever it is, they visit the parks, whatever,
the hotels, and then they leave. So it's a great

(19:22):
way to to raise tax revenue.

Speaker 6 (19:27):
It's a great way for citizens to be able to.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
The citizens of a local county or city to be
able to reap the benefits of folks coming in, haveing roads,
building schools or whatever.

Speaker 6 (19:44):
But they're leaving and they're not really a drain on
that infrastructure.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
Well, okay, so then you're right. You're obviously trying to
uncover so many elements and you can only have four meetings.
Can you tell me about Obviously, the planning of this first,
this first meeting that's coming up. Is there specific things
that you as you were looking at the planning of
this that you were kind of surprised on working into
that structured what you're looking to make sure is included

(20:11):
in this first.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Meeting, well, the first meeting, I did, you know, being
the chairman of the study Committee, I wanted to bring
the folks up to my hometown, to gainswelle Hall County.
But we're doing some great things. I'm gonna touch on
a couple of things with you there. We're doing some
great things, but we also need some help with a
lot too, and I wanted my committee to be able
to hear the needs. I wanted the committee that people

(20:33):
testifying to be able to share with that committee got
a local friend of mine speaking. He's a former eye
surgeon and he's been a developer, but he has seen
the Jeff pain is his name, doctor Jeff Payne, and
Jeff retired from the medical field and he learned a
lot while he was developing property. But he's gotten into

(20:55):
the he's doing hotels now and now he's contemplating.

Speaker 6 (20:59):
A resort up in our area.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
That you know, the example that Jeff and I talk
about all the time, is when you make those investments,
you actually get to sell that product, that same product
to this person and the next person and the next person.
It's not like they really take something home with them.
You're selling them an experience, either as simple as a
hotel experience, or it could be a ticketed event.

Speaker 6 (21:23):
Or something like that.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
But Jeff's topic is going to be He's going to
be speaking about the difficulties navigating from community to community.
Some communities are sea hotels is very favorable, right, and
some communities push back a little bit. Some people some

(21:45):
communities they don't want a hotel period.

Speaker 6 (21:49):
So it's there.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
I don't think there should be a one size fits
I believe very much in local control, but I think
that I think that leaders in different communities need to
hear where it's easier to do business, where it's harder
to do business. I'm not here to put my opinion in.
I just want folks to be able to hear it.
Get that, get those discussions out there on the record

(22:15):
from a business own owner's perspective. So that's gonna I
think that's gonna be cool. We've got We've also got
another local guy up there, Matthew Bowling. Matthew and his family,
His granddad, Virgil Williams run lake Land Near Islands. Late
Lander Islands is there's the Late Land Near Islands Authority

(22:38):
and it's set up by the State of Georgia.

Speaker 6 (22:41):
There's an appointed board to the authority.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
The the water park and hotels and all. They lease
the land from the authority. And I wanted Matthew to
talk to us about that relationship, how it is, because
how it is working under an authority like that, you know,
Matthew was telling me, you know, some of it's difficult.

Speaker 6 (23:06):
Sometimes it's difficult, sometimes it's fun. Sometimes there's great.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Ideas that come from the authority, and that these are
the folks sitting on the authority. These are all people
who have been appointed, like I said, by the governor
or Lieutenant governor somewhere along the lines. They're all business people.
So there's good ideas that come from the authority as well.
So I guess, you know, for Matthew, they're the reason
I wanted to get Matthew in front of people. Does

(23:35):
the State of Georgia do we need more authorities? Do
we need less authorities? Some of our other parks. Should
we set up authorities for public private partnerships like that,
because again, the vast majority of people who visit Lakeland
Near Islands are from out of town. But I can

(23:55):
tell you as a father of a twenty one year
old and a seventeen year old, my kids love it
down there and it's only, you know, a little twenty
five minute drive. So if if Lakeland Near Islands was
one hundred percent dependent on the folks who live in
Hall County or a neighboring county, it wouldn't be able
to exist.

Speaker 6 (24:12):
Pulling in from all over.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Everybody benefits from it being there at the gas stations,
the restaurants, the hotels and so on. So I just
want to get that conversation going. And I don't know
what the industry is. Again, We're going in this to
uncover treasure. That's what we're going to do is try
to uncover treasure, you know, and take advice from people
who are inside the industry the needs and the wants.

Speaker 6 (24:35):
Of the industry.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
Okay, So for people who I want, I want to
make sure that you know, for any listeners, if obviously
they can keep up, they know where the meeting's going.
To happen, but maybe it isn't something that is easy
viable to be able to get to in person. Is
what are the best practices on your advice on being
able to still make sure they feel like their voices
are heard and their ideas are being shared with the

(24:59):
committee and the research that's being gathered.

Speaker 6 (25:01):
Oyeah.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
So the Study Committee is going to be live streamed
every meeting all over the state. You gonna be able
to log on and see the work that your state
senators are doing. Also gonna be taking written testimony via
the website.

Speaker 6 (25:17):
It's gonna launch in just the next few days.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
All the presentations from the committee, Uh, they're gonna be
after they're done, they're gonna be uploaded and provided for.

Speaker 6 (25:28):
A review on the website.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
So people are gonna be able to go on even
if they're you know, if you're out of town for
a few weeks, and they're gonna be able to go
check and see make sure we're doing our work and
hear these great speakers that we're bringing in. You're gonna
be able to communicate through the committee admin. And then, uh,
going back to what I said earlier, I appreciate you
doing this interview on iHeartRadio and and hopefully this is

(25:53):
not the last interview we do. I hope that when
you check in with us, uh, you know, maybe halfway
through the uh the committee season, and then check in
with us at the end and ask me if I
feel victorious or defeated one or the other.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
I'm going to hold you to that, Okay, Okay.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
So also, well let me get your idea and your
opinion on this. So you know, obviously let's kind of
jump forward a little bit. You have these meetings, you
gather so much information. What is your goal? What are
the main things that you want to be able to
propose to the legislature about making implementing some of this information.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Well, one of the first just simple priorities. I think
I've harped on this one enough, is giving those communities
that flexibility that you know, if I can with that,
with that hotel, motel tax, if I can get there
right there, accomplished. Look, I'm high five and everybody right,
But you know, do we need to make more of
an investment from a budgetary standpoint?

Speaker 7 (26:51):
How?

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Going back to that ro uh, how how much money
are Georgians saving by investing in FIFA World Cup or
college football National Championship, whatever.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
Those events are.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
You know, because we do things for State of Georgia,
does that we roll out in the red carpet And
I'm glad we have those events, and it's a kind
of a trickle down effect. But look how much how
much is that ROI exactly where it needs to be.
So I think this is a couple of people.

Speaker 6 (27:27):
Tell me this may be a multi year process. Listen,
that's over my pay grade right there.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
But what we'll do is, you know, once we get
a couple of meetings under our belt, when we start
putting these priorities together. And I'm under no illusion that
I have all the answers right now, because I'm sure
we're going to get a ton of information thrown at us.
So you know, by the end of the second meeting,
we'll start compiling the list and prioritizing things the third meeting.

(27:54):
By the end of the third meeting, we should have
be pretty clear on where we want want to go
from a legislative perspective. By the fourth meeting, we've got
to write a report. The Committee's got a vote on
the report, and you know then that's.

Speaker 6 (28:11):
Going to be up to the folks who are up.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
The total poll from me, you know, is that the
Lieutenant Governor is he is he.

Speaker 6 (28:19):
I want to make him proud. He went out on
a limb to give us this study committee. I want
to make him proud.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
I want it to reflect well on the the entire Senate.
And uh, we've got to you know, going back to that,
We've got a great group of bipartisan lawmakers here on
this committee, myself, uh, Senator Sonya happern Uh, Senator Emmanuel Jones,
Senator Russ Goodman. Oh, and yes, and I'm sorry Senator

(28:46):
Frank Gain. So you know, we want to do the
work we want to. I value those folks opinion there
from all over the state of Georgia. Lieutenant Governor was
gracious enough to give us this committee and working with
him in his.

Speaker 6 (28:59):
Office, and then you know, we're gonna have to sit.

Speaker 8 (29:02):
Down and.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
There's there's definitely when you get down here to gold On.
This is my first crack at it, uh, but there's
no it is a team effort. And contrary to what
anybody thinks that they can come down here and be
a one man show, it's not. It's not possible. So
you know, the lieutenant governors. He'll be the first person
in the conversation. And then I assume that, you know,

(29:24):
if we get some good legislation that that we come
up with, we'll talk to the Speaker and his folks,
and the and the governor and his people, and hopefully
we can do make some make some change, incremental change
for the tourism industry.

Speaker 6 (29:37):
I don't think we need to go reinventing the wheel.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I don't think, and I've told the folks who are
helping with this committee, We're gonna take little swings at this.

Speaker 6 (29:46):
We're not gonna swing.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
We're gonna try to hit singles and doubles. We're not
gonna try to hit grand slams every every time we
go uh to one of these cities. We're gonna try
to just chip away at it and come up with
some good ideas that we feel we can grab a
hold of and move forward.

Speaker 9 (30:00):
Excellent.

Speaker 5 (30:01):
Well, I was gonna say, I think you've answered all
my questions, and I'm also excited about the first meeting.
I always ask in all of my interviews, though, is
there anything that maybe we didn't get a chance to
discuss or that you really want to highlight at this time.

Speaker 6 (30:13):
Oh, I mean you pretty much read my mind with
every question.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Now, I just appreciate the opportunity and to lead on this.
I appreciate the opportunity to be here and do this interview.
I think it can do a lot of good things
for all Georgians in all communities. So we're going to
work hard and see what we come up with.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Thanks Katie and Senator Echos. You may have heard the
phrase love is blind, but imagine falling in love, getting married,
and having a child that you will never see. Next you,
we'll hear a unique love story about a young black couple.
Both recently lost their sight and then became new parents.
They are now feeling their way through parenthood, turning to
each other and technology to devide the odds. Misty Jordan

(30:58):
has their inspiring love story.

Speaker 10 (31:00):
First, welcome to the Black Information Network and congratulations on
your beautiful family. It's great meeting both of you. Yes,
so I'm going to start from the beginning. Hareem and
Honesty have never seen each other. They both lost their
sight before meeting Honesty. How and when did you lose
your sight?

Speaker 11 (31:17):
I lost my sight four years ago due to a
physical assault.

Speaker 10 (31:24):
Wow, just four years ago.

Speaker 11 (31:26):
Yeah, just four years twenty one February.

Speaker 10 (31:29):
Wow. And how was the adjustment from having your site
to losing it abruptly? Not as a wife, not as
a mother, just as someone making the adjustment as a woman.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
Oh goodness.

Speaker 11 (31:41):
It was very difficult in the beginning. But I do
feel like a time is passing it. I'm adjusting with it.

Speaker 6 (31:49):
I'm coping with it.

Speaker 11 (31:50):
I'm dealing with it.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
And Hareem, how about you?

Speaker 10 (31:53):
How and when did you lose your sight?

Speaker 12 (31:54):
I lost my site July made it seven years. It
was two days before nineteen birthday.

Speaker 10 (32:01):
Wow. And for you, I know that you have a
daughter from a previous relationship. Were you a father at
that point or not a father at that point?

Speaker 11 (32:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (32:11):
I was a father. I lost my site and do
the gun vins.

Speaker 11 (32:14):
I was.

Speaker 12 (32:14):
I was shot on the face a few years ago.
And I had my daughter when I was in high school,
so she was kind of already born before I lost
my site.

Speaker 10 (32:24):
Hareem and Honesty were both trying to learn how to
navigate life without their site, so they both enrolled at
a technical training facility and this is where their love
story began.

Speaker 11 (32:34):
Yeah, we were both getting our china, so Honesty.

Speaker 10 (32:38):
How did you know that Hareem was the one?

Speaker 11 (32:41):
His voice?

Speaker 6 (32:43):
I loved his voice.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
I still love this voice till this day.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, I heard him. I heard him.

Speaker 11 (32:50):
We both had the same bro teacher and we were
doing a Christmas challenge and I heard him come to
the door and I was like, oh, who is that?
And then my roommate at the time she told me
a little bit more about him, and I was just interested.
So and I got another person and I just yeah.

Speaker 10 (33:11):
That's wonderful, all right, herrim, How did you know that
Honesty was the one?

Speaker 12 (33:17):
At first? I didn't even know she was at the
school and she said hey to me, but I didn't
think none of it because a lot of people tell
me hey, you know. But then we was in the
systems technology one day and I was talking to my
buddy Matt, basically we were talking about working out, and
she butted in and she was like, hey, I want
to come. Yeah, you know, she knew, so I'm like sure,

(33:41):
you know. The rest was really history. She was sliquid
it though. She didn't want to just give me her number,
so she's kind of like, yeah, she gave a roommate
he number two, like all.

Speaker 11 (33:52):
Some friends I couldn't just I just didn't want to
be too bored and too aggressive. So from of like
a group thing, and I was just hope that he
was picking up what I was sitting down.

Speaker 6 (34:02):
And yeah he did, because here we are.

Speaker 10 (34:07):
So talk to me about the two of you finding
out that you were pregnant. Honestly, where were you and
walk me through the day.

Speaker 6 (34:14):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 11 (34:15):
We had just got back from the National Federation of
the Blond Convention. I was feeling funny. So when we
got back, I made an appointment and it was a Friday,
and we went in. He went with me, of course,
just at the doctor, he was like, yeah, we definitely
have a baby. It was like nobody you know, like

(34:37):
it was.

Speaker 12 (34:37):
It was.

Speaker 11 (34:38):
I wouldn't say a surprise.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
I think we were both in shock already.

Speaker 13 (34:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
He kept telling me, like, you're pregnant.

Speaker 10 (34:45):
I'm like, no, I why did you think that heren
already having a child?

Speaker 12 (34:50):
Yeah, me and we get seek, we got we have
the symptoms, so I kind of already knew and I
was telling them, but she was hard.

Speaker 10 (35:02):
Okay, so you guys find out together at the doctor's office. Harima,
I'll start with you. Your first thought is what.

Speaker 12 (35:08):
Yeah, I gotta step it up. And now that's that's
two for me. And I'm the man of the house,
especially being blind, because I'm already got the odds against me.
So I got to prove a lot of people wrong,
including myself, because you know, I done came a long
way from why I'm being.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
So and so Harim.

Speaker 10 (35:24):
I mean even it's just in a difference because when
your daughter was born, you were able to see, and
now this is a situation where you're having a different experience.
What did that feel like for you?

Speaker 12 (35:35):
Oh, it's life changing, and it all missed with you mentally,
I'll be lying up. I say, we didn't go through
the the prison stage and go through Yeah, we went
through all that, but god, yeah, you know sometimes you
get put in predicaments. Well you can't do nothing but
talk to him. So I give him all the credit

(35:56):
because he pulled us out some dark places and we
still over.

Speaker 6 (36:01):
I was the opposite.

Speaker 7 (36:02):
I was like, what do we do?

Speaker 11 (36:04):
You know, I was like, oh my gosh, this is real,
Like we made a human and we're both totally blond,
and we're going to have to take.

Speaker 10 (36:12):
Care of Himkarim's surprised honesty and proposed at their baby shower.
Baby Anthony was born the following month. So now all
the parenthood and excitement and jitter's kick in. These two
grave parents have not shied away from the daily responsibilities
of parenting. In fact, they found some new creative ways
to lean on technology. So I want to know about

(36:38):
the day to day things. I have never cut My
son is eight. I've never cut his fingernails because I'm
afraid I'm going to cut his fingers, so my husband
does it. So what are some things like that for
the both of you that you feel apprehensive about doing
because you don't have your sight.

Speaker 11 (36:53):
That's simply one of them. And some things we actually
don't do because we don't have our site like that.
For instance, Haring's family is close. His dad's side of
the family's like fifteen minutes away, so you know, it's
another for his aunt to stop by and clip his nails.

Speaker 10 (37:10):
What about a poopy divers Really, we tree every diaper
like a poopy diver.

Speaker 11 (37:14):
We wipe we feel, you know, because yeah we don't
want to, Okay, this is not a poopy diaper, And
then I mean, this is a poopy diaper, and then
we don't clean him good. And then if it's just
like a really big because babies have blowouts. He's a
breastfit baby, so if it's like a really big one,
we'll rent them off on the sceink and then it's
bad time and he's not he's not crawling yet, but

(37:36):
we know it's coming, so we're trying to take every
preventive measure right now.

Speaker 10 (37:40):
Yeah, sleep, Yes, he looks like he is sleep mm hmm. Yep,
looks like he and he's comfortable too, so if you
try to move him and put him down, uh uh,
he's probably gonna wake up now. Looking ahead to the future,
what would it look like for you to teach Anthony
how to ride a bike? That's something that to ride
a passage that parents kind of look over to crawling

(38:01):
and knowing that he's, you know, making sure that he's
out of harm's way or that you guys aren't crossing
paths at the same time, what are your plans for
things like that?

Speaker 12 (38:11):
Just try just being blind. You can't really say what
you can and won't do, but I know, like with me,
the type of parent I am, I feel like I
can do anything from like I do it all from
flipping to cooking to swimming to like I would get
on the bike and ride it myself. And if I

(38:31):
file and scrape myself, I mean, it is what it is,
you know. It's just I walk around back with him
if I feel like I got so much my hand
and I didn't got myself turned around, like I just
back step with him to make sure then bumping space,
I don't. It's it's different ways when we do it.

Speaker 10 (38:48):
Talk to me about some of the apps that you use,
seeing AI our Explorer, but we also have a syste
of technology that we use which is like the talking
on labeler and the talking the moment. Yeah, so you
were to go cook, then how would you use the
app to actually help you make a meal?

Speaker 11 (39:09):
First, I guess we would use it to identify short
and then it'll read like what something is, like this
is chicken or this is ground beef. And once we
identify all our items, then we cook. And as we're cooking,
we might use our Explorer, which is the app where
we were able to have a life agent, or we'll

(39:31):
FaceTime a family member of friend and we'll cook and
then once we're done cooking, well, they'll help us. They'll
help us know the eye to the show what temperatures
we have is set on. And once we're done.

Speaker 12 (39:44):
Cooking, then they basically check the sea.

Speaker 11 (39:48):
We'll cut it open for them.

Speaker 12 (39:50):
Depending on what you're cooking. Like we mastered it so
well you can go out the hearing of the cooking
to know if it's about done.

Speaker 11 (39:58):
I'm in here doing anything. Worries are living dislike for.

Speaker 10 (40:02):
Us, you're doing it ourselves. I can see that. Yeah,
do you all ever get scared?

Speaker 6 (40:07):
Yeah, I really do.

Speaker 12 (40:09):
Yeah, get more scared of.

Speaker 10 (40:10):
Me, honesty or what like? Tell me some things that
make you feel nervous.

Speaker 11 (40:14):
Like you said, you know, like if he does get
a fever, I can't. I have to find an alternative
way to give him medicine. And then I have to
be too weary of you know, giving him the right dosage,
making sure that I'm using the app to see it correctly,
and then you know, I have to if I don't
want to do all that, I have to worry about
transportation to the emergency room. Because but I feel like
that any parent have has those worries. But it's just

(40:38):
me as a blond parent. My worries are different than enteram.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
What about you?

Speaker 12 (40:43):
I mean, of course as a as a father, yeah,
I figure those things, but I mean I feel like
that's part of parenting. We got a great village. They
do help out a lot. We are very appreciative of them.

Speaker 9 (40:57):
What does your future look like?

Speaker 10 (40:58):
Is there a bigger family? What are your hopes for
baby Anthony?

Speaker 11 (41:02):
For me, I hope as far as Anthony goes that
he's still happy, healthy, and you know, thriving, you know,
because I have concerns about being a blind parent and
making sure that we're there for him in all aspects
of his life and making sure that he's happy as
a kid. That's my main.

Speaker 12 (41:22):
Part of more blessings. I plan on creating more generational
wealth for my kids, trying to become a better man,
better husband, better sign.

Speaker 10 (41:33):
What advice do you would you all have for a
couple who can't see and they are thinking about starting
a family.

Speaker 11 (41:40):
That's what you really want to do?

Speaker 12 (41:42):
Playing up for it? Yeah, playing and go for it.

Speaker 11 (41:45):
We're both blind raising a baby, and we're you know,
we're accomplishing it day by day.

Speaker 10 (41:52):
And doing phenomenon. Might I add doing really really well.
I'm mister Jordan with the Black Information.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Network Misty and you can follow their inspiring story on
their Instagram page at underscore j dot Steele. You can
follow Misty Jordan on social sites of Misty j Radio.
Seems like it should be a very clear cut case.
A suspected going for a gun is shot by a
police officer, But what happened to black teen Jabbari Peoples
in Alabama still raising questions even after the family saw

(42:23):
the video. The Black Information Networks Vanessa Tyler on her
podcast Blackland, brings us the story.

Speaker 14 (42:29):
It always starts with the stop. It was no different
for Jabari Peoples. But as always with these headline cases,
something went deadly wrong.

Speaker 15 (42:38):
My brother was afraid, he was scared, he was running
from for his life, even to the point where he
was shot in the back.

Speaker 16 (42:47):
And based on that footage that was depicted in there,
and based on their law that because of that, we
deem that shooting on justifiable shooting.

Speaker 17 (42:54):
On that second video, there was riding, circling and circling
that would say this is a gun this that's the
part that we're saying it was obviously edited.

Speaker 8 (43:07):
The family want was to verify everything independently. They're not
accepting anything from Alabama Law Enforcement Agency.

Speaker 14 (43:16):
The Jabbari People's deadly police shooting in Homewood, Alabama just
another questionable case in Blackland. I'm Vanessa Tyler. On June
twenty third, a still unidentified cop smelled pot. He says
it was coming from the car of eighteen year old
Jabbari Peoples. How the officer approached or what was said,

(43:40):
unfortunately is not on the body cam.

Speaker 16 (43:42):
He didn't turn on until he encountered it. They saw
strictly from winen struggling the suit when aybody came turned on.

Speaker 14 (43:49):
That's District Attorney Danny Carr. The black Top law enforcer
says Jabari reached for a gun in the door panel,
the cops shot him. The Alabama Law Enforcement Agency, when
as Aliyah investigated, the cop will not be charged.

Speaker 16 (44:03):
Case closed based on that footage that was depicted in
there and based on their law that because of that,
we deemed that shooting on justifiable shooting.

Speaker 14 (44:12):
Now, a live, vibrant, black eighteen year old in his
car with a friend has become the latest hashtag shot
by cop.

Speaker 8 (44:20):
Jabbari Peoples was shot in the back. Number two that
Jabbari Peoples was shot running away. And number three, Jabbari
Peoples never appointed anything at the police officer. We know

(44:41):
those three things.

Speaker 14 (44:42):
Civil rights attorney Ben Crump has a full team of
lawyers in place for this one.

Speaker 6 (44:47):
Now.

Speaker 14 (44:47):
Police say there was a struggle, Jabari had a gun
and the cop thought he was going for it.

Speaker 8 (44:52):
And the family feels they have a right to know
everything that happened that led up Damn being shot at
his back running away. You had the video from day one.
If you felt it was justified, why didn't you just
release it day one?

Speaker 14 (45:12):
That's the problem. The full video was not released for weeks,
more than a month. Then the family gathered at the
Jefferson County Courthouse in Birmingham. District Attorney car finally showed
them the video and things exploded.

Speaker 13 (45:26):
What I gathered from what we saw today left me
with more questions than answers. Why it took this long
is a problem. We've always been fighting and arguing for transparency.
It doesn't make sense to drag a family through this
for this length of time. Did we get a step

(45:47):
closer to transparency, maybe, but we got a long way
to go. We got a long way to go when
it comes to transparency.

Speaker 14 (45:54):
That's another one of the attorneys for the family, Alabama
based lawyer leave Roy Maxwell.

Speaker 13 (46:00):
As we owe it to the family, we owe it
to the community to get a full, unedited version of
what happened instead of a short, short segment of a
video that's clearly been edited by Leah. Thank you.

Speaker 8 (46:12):
We want all the unedited video so we can have
our experts be able to verify what is actually being
concluded on those videos. They have drawn all kinds of
conclusions and they're almost saying, no, no, just take this part,

(46:33):
because this is what we want to show you. No, no,
show us every part of the video. That's what transparency is.
We need to see everything, the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth. That's what we're seeking.

Speaker 14 (46:48):
The family says what they got was piecemeal and the
gun from the snippet they saw, they could not tell.
Here is family attorney Lisa Parks.

Speaker 17 (46:56):
I just want to clarify what we saw today. First
saw a video that was short and it appeared to
be unedited in real time. Then there was a second
video that was slowed down and stopped. On that second video,
there was writing circling and circling that would say this

(47:20):
is a gun. This that's the part that we're saying
it was obviously edited, so it's this same malicious No,
we're just saying that it was. It was. It didn't.
That wasn't in real time, and it didn't come out
that way with with writing on it right. You know what,
what you're filming right now isn't going to come out

(47:41):
with writing on it right. But what we first saw
was just in real time. The second part was slowed
down and had pointed out different things from whoever wrote
that on there their perspective.

Speaker 14 (47:57):
From their perspective, yes, he had something in his hand
and while running away. His sister, Angel Smith, watched the video.
Jabari's parents couldn't stomach watching. Angel says, in his hand
his cell phone.

Speaker 15 (48:09):
Today, what I saw on this video, my brother was afraid.
He was scared. He was running from his for his life,
even to the point where he was shot in the back.
He was telling the officer, sir, I promise, I'm not
trying to resist. This is my cell phone. This is
my phone. This is what my brother said.

Speaker 8 (48:30):
And so what we see on the video is that
they claim they slowed down and then they when we
watched the first time you say, oh, where's the gun,
and then they show us a slow down ended version
well for circle rare, I guess presented by live saying
oh this is the good in his hand here.

Speaker 13 (48:49):
We've always maintained that the witness that was there with Sibari,
the witness said that there was in a gun right,
and so that's what that hasn't been a saving from
the family. That's what the witnesses that were there on
scening have maintained.

Speaker 14 (49:02):
Family attorney Eric Hurtz says problem can be simply solved.
Release all the video, let the truth out, chips fall
where they may.

Speaker 18 (49:10):
I want you to look at the video and I
want you to see and ask yourself, when did this
officer pull his gun out to shoot young mister Peeples?
And where was young mister people when he pulled it out?
Was he anywhere near a gun? Because it takes points
seventy five seconds to determine you want to pull your
gun out, takes point seven five seconds to react. If

(49:30):
you have a double stepped hulser, it takes even more time.
What I saw in the video today was an instantaneous
aiming of a gun from the body camp before mister
Peeples even got to anywhere where there was a gun,
that intent could be determined. And this is a question
we're asking. We're not saying that he intended to shoot
mister Peeples.

Speaker 14 (49:50):
No matter what, Jabari Peoples should have been on his
way back to college. His parents say he had such
a bright future.

Speaker 12 (49:57):
On Jabi's motor or was my favorite son.

Speaker 6 (50:02):
He's a very bright kid. He was a hard working kid.

Speaker 19 (50:06):
He knew he had a lot of dreams and he
was willing to work for those dreams. I'm the father
of Jabbari People's Jabari was one of the brightest kids,
one of loving his kids, and he was dedicated to
all his friends, all his family. We don't know how

(50:27):
we're gonna go on without Jabari, but we're gonna, were gonna.
We're gonna fight for Jabari until love breath in my Boddy.

Speaker 8 (50:34):
We're gonna fight for the bad.

Speaker 14 (50:36):
Now he's dead. Da Carr says it is heartbreaking, but
again insists this case is closed and told the family
the cop shooting was justified.

Speaker 16 (50:45):
I told him they had the right to be emotional.
I'm not here to tell them how to respond, but
I am here to give them the truth. And when
we did our best to do that. I also apologize
to the family and told them that I truly believed that,
you know, it's just a good kid that made.

Speaker 8 (51:01):
A bad decision.

Speaker 14 (51:02):
To them, this thing is wide open until they see
every last second of video.

Speaker 8 (51:07):
Please continue to keep this family in your prayer because
this is not an open and shutcase. We believe that
there's more video out there, whether it's the park surveillance video,
whether it's dash cam video, or whether it's the rest
of the bodycam video that is going to give us

(51:31):
information that is so desperately needed to understand why this
tragedy took place.

Speaker 14 (51:44):
Vanessa Tyler, This is Blackland. A new episode drops every week.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Thanks Vanessa. Listen to the Blackland Podcast wherever you get
your podcasts. A w Tante Ball in Canton, Ohio is
more than just a night of elegance and tradition. It's
a coming of age journey for a new generation of
young Black women. The Black Information Networks Esther Dillard sat
down with Emmy nominated filmmaker Contessa Gales to talk about

(52:09):
her new documentary, The Debutants, and the deeper meaning behind
this historic event.

Speaker 9 (52:15):
In this edition of the color between the lines.

Speaker 7 (52:17):
It was really about service, like wanting to give the
girl some programming, leadership, training, opportunities to come together as
community and to meet each other and to meet mentors.

Speaker 9 (52:29):
I'm talking with Emmy nominated filmmaker Kntessa Gales about her
new documentary The Debutants, which follows Kenton, Ohio's first Black
Debutante ball in a decade. It's a modern look at
a tradition where grace, identity, and self discovery meet. Let's
get into it first. I want to say congratulations on
the premiere of this and for those who are unfamiliar

(52:53):
with katillions and debutants, can you explain what a debutant
cotillion really actually is for the audience and why does
it matter in the black Black tradition?

Speaker 7 (53:05):
So katilions are essentially a rite of passage ceremony, at
least that's my take on them in the film. I
think this tradition, which you know, goes back decades in
terms of Black communities participation and involvement in it, but
then like centuries going back to white European origins. But

(53:25):
when it came here and when Black people got a
hold of it and put their spin on it and
put their sauce on it. It really, I think, is
about community at the end of the day. But of
course there's tons of valid critiques about the ways in
which it replicates classism and patriarchal ideas about womanhood and

(53:48):
all of these things that we explore in the film
through the girls that are participating in this cotilion tradition
in Canton, Ohio, where we filmed. It's the first katilion
intent years. So Canton had the tradition dating back to
the early seventies and then in twenty twelve they had
their last one and it was gone for a decade,

(54:09):
and this group of women, you know, decided that they
wanted to revive this tradition and really give the girls
in their community something to participate in. Is where that
desire to revive it was born out of. It was
really about service, like wanting to give the girls some programming, leadership, training,

(54:30):
opportunities to come together as community and to meet each
other and to meet mentors and all of this stuff,
and of course culminating in this big grand ball where
they are presented formally to society in their dresses and
you know, showcased and celebrated in this way. But for me,

(54:50):
you know, it wasn't necessarily a desire to explore that
tradition per se so much as it was an opportunity
to tell a of age story about black girls. And that's
really what's at the heart of our film, The Debutantes.

Speaker 9 (55:05):
You could have probably picked a lot of different cities.
Why can't Ohio for this particular story. I know that
you explained a little bit about it, but you could
have gone anywhere. Why Canton and why was it so
important to spotlight this particular city's revival?

Speaker 7 (55:20):
I think Canton's a really interesting place. But the origins
of this particular story that became a film was that
NBC News Studios was developing something around black middle class life,
and there was a producer named there's a producer named
Vernico Alan Lampeer who found an article in the Canton Repository,

(55:42):
the Canton local newspaper about the efforts to revive this
Cotillion and she thought it was really interesting that, you know,
it was something that had died and then was attempting
to be revived. In twenty twenty two is when we
ended up filming with gen Z, a generation that didn't really.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
Have that much connection to this tradition.

Speaker 7 (56:05):
Some of them had grandmothers, some of them had mothers
that had participated it, but most, for the most part,
these girls were a bit disconnected from the legacy and
the tradition. And I thought, you know, when I came
into the Folds and NBC brought me in, and we
brought on our partners, Westbrook Studios and BT Studios, that
it was going to be a really interesting arena to

(56:27):
talk about the intersections of race and gender and class
in particular, because the women who are organizing this, knowing
that you know, traditionally this is a middle class, upper
middle class tradition, wanted to make it more accessible, very
intentionally to the girls in their community who were again,
you know, lacking and opportunities from programming. And you know, Canton,

(56:50):
Ohio is a post industrial city. I'm from Buffalo, New
York also similarly like a post industrial city, and where
you know, there's low and there's a high unemployment rate
and all of these factors that make it difficult for
folks to you know, live their dreams. And yeah, so

(57:10):
they wanted to bring back this tradition but make it
a lot more class inclusive, and that for me was
the really interesting part because in navigating these traditions, a
lot comes up around, you know, the classism of it all,
the patriarchy of it all, like some of these traditions
don't really fit or make sense. And the girls' lives,

(57:33):
and you see how they navigate that, the idea of
like stepping into this legacy and what they're inheriting from
the black women before them, and then them figuring out
what makes sense in their lives and how to make
it their own and how they want to be presented
to society. You know, these are sixteen seventeen year old girls.
They're juniors and seniors in high school, and so they're

(57:54):
really like coming into themselves and finding their own voices
and finding out who they are and how to articulate
that on screen in front of us. And we follow
the whole class of girls, but there's three girls in
particular whose stories we follow and who each kind of
have a different journey. Their names are Taylor, Adirdre, and Amelia.
And I was just very privileged and honored that they

(58:18):
were as vulnerable as they were in opening up their
lives to me and allowing me to live my childhood again.
Vicariously through them.

Speaker 9 (58:29):
Well, it's funny. I won't let this pass by because
you said you're from Buffalo. I'm from Buffalo.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
It's quite a thing.

Speaker 9 (58:34):
Yeah, Buffalo, New York.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (58:37):
I'm just wondering, you know, when you were going through
this whole process and filming this and doing this, did
you find anything that really surprised you about the whole process.
I know you've done all your research and everything, but
there might have been some surprises along the way. I
think you can hear my full conversation with Kntessa Gales
about the debutantes and the stories behind the breaking film

(59:01):
on the Color Between the Lines podcast on YouTube, iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Esther Dinnard.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Thank you Esther and Contessa, and that's our program for
this week. For more on these stories, listen to the
Black Information Network on the free iHeartRadio app or log
onto binnews dot com for all of the latest news
impacting the black community. Also be sure to follow us
on social media at Black Information Network and on x
M Blue Sky at black info Net, and make the

(59:30):
Black Information Network first on your car radio and iHeartRadio app. Presets,
I'm Mike giland wishing you a great Sunday, and be
sure to tune in next week of this time for
another edition of the Black Perspective right here on the
Black Information Network