January 22, 2025 • 59 mins
This week on the Black Perspective, Andrea Coleman speaks with Dr. Russell Wigginton, President of the National Civil Rights Museum, about preserving the legacy of Black luminaries like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Esther Dillard examines how this year’s King Holiday will stand out, coinciding with the Presidential Inauguration weekend. Morgyn Wood sits down with Jacqie McWilliams-Parker, the first Black woman commissioner of the CIAA, to discuss representation, HBCU culture, the CIAA conference, and more.
Plus, Doug Davis talks with DEI consultant Dante King, whose ties with the University of California San Francisco were severed following a discussion on anti-racism with medical students.
Listen now!
Esther Dillard examines how this year’s King Holiday will stand out, coinciding with the Presidential Inauguration weekend. Morgyn Wood sits down with Jacqie McWilliams-Parker, the first Black woman commissioner of the CIAA, to discuss representation, HBCU culture, the CIAA conference, and more.
Plus, Doug Davis talks with DEI consultant Dante King, whose ties with the University of California San Francisco were severed following a discussion on anti-racism with medical students.
Listen now!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Sunday, January nineteenth, and on today's show, Andrea Coleman
talks to the president of the National Civil Rights Museum,
doctor Russell Wigginton, about preserving the legacy of Black luminaries
like doctor Martin Luther King Junior. Esther Dillard addresses how
this King Holiday will be different this year with the
presidential inauguration being the same weekend. Morgan Wood talks to
(00:20):
the first black woman Commissioner of the CI Double A,
Jackie McWilliams Parker, about the representation HBCU culture the CI
Double A and Moore and Doug Davis is back with
DEI consultant Dante King, whose ties with the University of California,
San Francisco were severed before speaking to a group of
medical students about anti racism. These stories and more are
(00:43):
coming your way on today's program. Welcome to the Black Perspective.
I'm your host, Mike Island.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to the Black Perspective, a weekly community affairs program
on the Black Information Network featuring interviews and discussions on
issues important to the Black community.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Good Sunday, everyone, and Happy Martin Luther King Junior Day weekend,
and Welcome to the black perspective. The National Civil Rights
Museum is located on the site of the Lorraine Motel
in Memphis, Tennessee, where doctor Martin Luther King, Junior was
killed on April fourth, nineteen sixty eight. The museum stands
as a reminder of the kinds of sacrifices demanded of
the black community in its fight for freedom and equality
(01:22):
in America. On the eve of this year's King Holiday,
doctor Russ Wiganton, president of the Museum, speaks with the
Black Information Networks Andrea Coleman about the importance of supporting
institutions that chronicle the civil rights movement and protect the
legacy of black luminaries like doctor King.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Doctor Wigington, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Tell us a little bit about what the National Civil
Rights Museum has planned for the MLK Holiday this year.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Absolutely, and King Day is certainly always special here at
the National Civil Rights Museum. It's a moment of celebration.
I think it's a moment of renewal and rejuvenation for
all people, but particularly at the museum. We have so
many people who come from all over the world to
be in the space where people know doctor King wants
(02:09):
grace to be reminded of his contributions to our world,
to be reminded of the work that we do today.
I mean, we serve as a town square for this community,
but we serve as a part of national consciousness and
international humanity. And we will have between ten and fifteen
(02:32):
thousand people gracing our wonderful campus that day. And it's
a free and open to the public moment where just
watching people interact and be in community and being celebration
and appreciation mode.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
It's a sight to behold.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, I can only imagine.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Now.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
This year's theme is Community over Chaos.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Thank you for that question. Community over Chaos is connected
to several things. We have a major renovation on going
here at the museum, the boarding house which is the
place where the alleged shot was fired from across the
street from the Lorraine Hotel, which is part of the
museum experience, and the surrounding exterior, a community park which
(03:15):
is being revitalized and really incorporated into the experience. The
overarching theme for all of that work, which is really
about from nineteen sixty eight to the present, so the
Loraine is up until doctor King was assassinated the boarding
House is sixty eight to the present. The overarching theme
(03:36):
for that is the title of doctor King's last book,
where do we go from here?
Speaker 6 (03:42):
Chaos or community?
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And that very powerful and important question we think is
still relevant today and we are wanting people to know,
in the spirit of doctor King, we're choosing community over chaos.
And at a moment where in our society can sometimes
feel like we've opted for chaos as the default, we're
(04:05):
here to remind people in fact that is not.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
The case, and that it is indeed a choice.
Speaker 8 (04:11):
And if you choose community, there are steps you can take,
ways you can think, actions you can implement to really
be about the business of community and community building over chaos.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
That's so very important and when you talk about that reminder,
it really is the theme that resonates with Doctor King's
life and his message. How important is it that we
embrace that theme and that message, especially that of non violence.
And as you just reference the climate of today, so.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
We live it every day here at the museum, and
you stand at on our courtyard and just watch people
as they are entering our campus. It's a magical thing
to witness because part of what happens is people gather
outside in the courtyard and they're looking up at the balcony,
and they're looking up at the wreath on the balcony
(05:01):
outside of Room three six where Doctor King took.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
His last breath.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
And there are people from all walks to life. They
are people who are speaking all languages. There are people
who are from all socio economic backgrounds and political affiliations,
and all of the ways that we often tend to divide.
None of those things quite seem to matter when they're
(05:26):
on that courtyard and they're having that moment, and they're
having this sort of sacred moment before they even enter
the museum, and so we get a chance to see
the power literally of place. We get to see what
that does to people, and we get to see what
happens when people pause for a minute and remove judgment,
(05:49):
take a moment sometimes to hear and understand the stories
of others and their respective journey. It's remarkable because when
they come in, people have different knowledge levels of what
they're going to experience in the museum, and so what
they know and don't know is going to ebb and flow,
But we provide an experience that, however, and wherever you enter,
(06:13):
you're going to be enhanced intellectually about the movement, but
you're also going to have your heart touched. And regardless
of all those alleged differences, that happens for everybody who
has an experience at the National Civil Rights Museum.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So what do we see there that we don't see elsewhere?
Speaker 5 (06:32):
The first thing I'd like to say is we're a
close knit community.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
We help and assist and rely on each other.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
And I get asked all the time or we in competition,
And my response is I love the fact that more
spaces have come on board in recent years because that's
about awareness raising.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
In my mind, there's.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
Plenty of opportunity for people to have these experiences at
all these phenomenal places. I think of it as never
as competition and more about collective awareness raising. One of
the things we're proud of is we're the oldest and
the first that comprehensive civil and Human rights museum established
(07:18):
in nineteen ninety one, and unfortunately, as a byproduct of
where the ultimate leader of that movement was killed, I mean,
something happened that transformed the world literally on our site,
and you know, it's kind of hard to explain, but
it feels different.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
I've been to all those places. I love all those places.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Even folks who work and lead those places will tell
you it feels different here.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
It just does.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
I mean, all those places have something special and dynamic
about them, but it does feel different here. And with that,
for us comes a tremendous sense of responsibility. But I
will tell you that the story of how this place
came about is also a powerful one. It was twenty
years it laid in disrepair. This motel did and almost
(08:09):
didn't happen. And I could tell you that when it
opened this September of nineteen ninety one, nobody was anticipating
that thirty four years later we would have north of
a quarter of a million visitors annually from all over
the world.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
So what's next for the museum And you've been there
now leading it since August of twenty twenty one, what
do you see as a future goals and what's next
on your plate for the museum?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Well, we have a phenomenal renovation that's underway right now.
I like to put price tags on these things because
I want people to understand the magnitude. It's a thirty
eight million dollar renovation which is significant for us. It
is a redesign and expansion of our exterior so people
(08:58):
would gather outside of the museum. There's a park that
is being redesigned such that much more community oriented. So
that is an important step for us. That will open
this summer. And then the Legacy Building or the boarding
house that's where the alleged shot was fired from that
killed doctor King, and we've owned that space for about
(09:20):
twenty years, but prior to now it was very focused
on the assassination. What we're doing now is utilizing that
in renovating that building to talk about nineteen sixty eight
to the present. So people would leave the Lorraine Motel
after visiting room three h six and say what happened
(09:40):
after doctor King died?
Speaker 6 (09:42):
To the movement, what happened?
Speaker 5 (09:44):
And this is an opportunity for us to answer the
question that the movement continue and.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Lives on today.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
And so that building will highlight all manner of civil
and human rights moments after first steps forward steps backward
over the last fifty plus years, and so helping people
connect to it and personalize it so that they can
(10:11):
see themselves and be inspired to take.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Their appropriate role in making society reach its full.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Potential, which is at the core of what doctor King
always talked about. You always talked about everybody has a
role to play. You always talked about the importance of
each of us as individuals and certainly as a collective.
But everybody has a role to play. It it's hard, frankly,
for young people to see the role they play if
(10:38):
all they can see and touch happened in nineteen sixty two.
We want to talk about some things that happen in
twenty twenty two that have civil and human rights implications.
And so that project is we think, probably the most
important thing we could do right now to be relevant
(10:58):
for the next twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
And how do we support you in that effort.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
First of all, to visit the museum is so important,
But if they can't get here physically, to go online.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
So many of our programs now are.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Hybrid and people can experience dimensions of the museum.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
On King Day ten o'clock Central, you can have a
virtual experience on King Day.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
You can feel like you're amongst the thousands of people
who will be on our campus that day. You can
participate and register for that event, and you can register
for several of the educational programs.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
We fundraise so.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
That people can get access to those things at no cost.
So if you have the ability and interest, you can
contribute funds to us so that we can continue to
do that, so that people aren't denied the opportunity to
touch and feel the National Civil Rights Museum.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Why are institutions like the National Civil Rights Museum important
for our society?
Speaker 5 (12:03):
I think, and I'm a historian about trainings, you probably
won't be surprised to hear me say this, but it's
in the moment, particularly the way our society sort of
the rhythm of our society now, which is so fast
and immediate, it's easy to not appreciate understand both the
(12:24):
power of the moment. Yet this moment too shall pass, right,
and so both of those things are true, and we
tend not to think about whatever we're doing now that
in not too far from now, it will be a
part of history.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
I mean, that's kind of how it goes.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
And while it might be a hair uncomfortable for some people,
I firmly believe that the overwhelming majority of people in
our society want to be on the right side of history.
And when we look back and we decipher of who's
on the wrong side of history. They didn't plan necessarily
(13:06):
mostly I plan to be on the wrong side of history.
But you know, in doctor King's unbelievably eloquent letter from
a Birmingham jail, he says really clearly, I'm writing this
to basically everyday folks, right. I mean, he's writing to clergy,
but he's speaking to everybody. And what he is basically
(13:28):
saying is you don't have to be dramatically in any
particular place. However, if you ought to be a passive participant,
that's actually making.
Speaker 8 (13:39):
A decision, and it's making a decision that.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
Places you on the wrong side of history. So all
of us, in our own respective way.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Can find ourselves acting, doing participating to land on the
right side of history. And you know, I'm not here
to tell people what that is, but I am here
to tell people that if they want to be on
the right side of history, they've got to explore and
identify how that can.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Indeed be the case.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
It doesn't happen by accident, and you don't just show
up and passively exist and find yourself being on.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
The right side of history. It doesn't work that far.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
And so I just want people to educate themselves, make
sure that they're making decisions that are at least based
on something they believe in. Being sympathetic and identifying and
connecting with people through the lens of civility with a
fundamental respect for all of humanity. And when you do that,
(14:44):
you are situated to land on the right side of history.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I love that. What is your favorite quote from doctor.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
King Ah All labor has dignity. It makes all people
count and be value. It's so easy to have people
be invisible if their work is considered less important or
low pay. We somehow associate that with the quality of
(15:11):
how people are. And he made clear that all labor
has dignity, and whatever your work is, if you do
the best that you can and you're the best at that,
and you're seeking to be the best at that, that
in and of.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Itself is worthwhile and worthy, and that every one of
us has a place and we all count.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Doctor Wikington, thank you again for joining us. We've spoken
to you for several years now and it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
Thank you again, My pleasure great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Thank you, Andrea. You can learn more about the National
Civil Rights Museum at Civil Rights Museum dot org. As
doctor Wigginton mentioned, events at the museum honoring the King
Holiday tomorrow will be available online starting at ten am
Central time. The legacy of doctor Martin Luther King Junior
will be celebrated tomorrow. However, this year is extremely different
(16:05):
and for some stressful The Black Information That works. Ester
Dildard addresses some of the reasons why on this week's
edition of The Color between the Lines.
Speaker 9 (16:14):
This week The Color between the Lines is a little
bit different. Usually I connect with one author, we talk
about one book, and then I close. But because this
is the week of January twentieth, I wanted to give
you a little bit of context as to why I
chose this particular author and this conversation. January twentieth is
the day that we celebrate the life and the legacy
(16:35):
of Martin Luther King Junior, and it also is the
day that we are inaugurating the second inauguration of Donald J.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
Trump.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
About a week ago, I spoke with a man by
the name of Jonathan Kirkland. He is a DC resident
and he's also the marketing manager for an app called BLK.
BLK is a lifestyles and dating app. And the reason
we were talking was because the folks running his business
had launched something called hashtag BLK Freedom Weekend, and that
(17:09):
was to help black residents who were living in the
DC area to offer them an opportunity to leave d
C during MLK Weekend because of the inauguration. And I
asked him what prompted him to do this?
Speaker 10 (17:25):
It really was because so I'm DC based and me
and my friends were talking about inauguration weekend. I wasn't
here during the last inauguration during or the insurrection, if
you will, so a lot of people that were here
during that, the sentiment, you know, just wasn't one of happiness,
if you will, And especially like those who are from
(17:46):
the DC area just seeing what was happening in their city.
So all of my friends are like they're leaving town,
They're getting out of Dodge or just going somewhere.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
They don't want to be here during that. So I
thought that was interesting.
Speaker 10 (17:56):
And then me seeing things here firsthand, like even Jimmy
Carter's funeral yesterday, like seeing things firsthand really makes a difference.
So what we wanted to do is just ask our
users in the area, like their feelings and their sentiment
about inauguration, especially since it comes on the same weekend
as MLK. We can and you know, doctor King was
(18:18):
all about freedom inequality for all. So in that survey,
we found that, you know, our users were angry, they
were concerned, they were anxious, they had fears about public safety,
and you know all those types of concerns that anybody
would be feelful for, especially when they think about four
years ago with the insurrection.
Speaker 11 (18:35):
So based on that data, we thought it would.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
Be something that we can do to help our users.
Speaker 10 (18:39):
So those living in the area if they want to
get away, whether it's just to Richmond or you know,
to down the street or the next state over to
New York or to Philly or wherever they want to go,
to give them the opportunity and the ability to do that,
and again that would help them to connect with other people.
And we're all about connections as a connecting app. So
it was just something in a creative and unique way
(19:01):
that we can help our users and help those in
the area. Knowing based on the data the feelings that
they were feeling.
Speaker 9 (19:08):
BLK did a survey that revealed that eighty percent of
black DC residents felt anxious or angry about the inauguration,
and forty one percent that they prefer to leave DC
altogether to avoid the chaos.
Speaker 7 (19:23):
He said.
Speaker 9 (19:24):
Hashtag Freedom Weekend offered their community a chance to win
a vacation away from DC.
Speaker 10 (19:31):
It's not necessarily like if you can use the voucher
wherever you want, but we would love to see it use.
It be going to another city to catch up with
a college roommate, or an old friend you haven't seen,
or somebody you know you met on the app that
you might meet for the first time, or even a
family member. So what we want to do is be
that service to our users where they can make these
(19:53):
connections and you know, just progress in whatever they're trying
to do.
Speaker 9 (19:57):
That led me to my guest author and counsel doctor
Laverne Haines Collins. She wrote a book called Overlooked Counselor
Insights for the Unspoken Issues in Black American Life. It's
a deep dive into how when it comes to loss,
mental health professionals often overlook that loss for African Americans
is multi layered, connected not only to their personal history,
(20:21):
but to their collective cultural history. And when it comes
to January twentieth. Many Black Americans are still unpacking that
loss with their emotions, the loss of Kamala Harris losing
the election. Many people were on a high when they
were It was the election Harris was running, it was
the close to the end. People had aspirations and hope
(20:45):
of something different for the next and seeing perhaps the
first black woman to actually become the president of the
United States was something that was extremely hopeful for a
lot of people, and then when it didn't happen, it
was dashed.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
And you mentioned that, you know.
Speaker 9 (21:04):
People often when we're disappointed, we just keep it moving,
but that can cause problems later on. How do black people,
I guess, address that conundrum in not being you know,
going into a deep depression, but also just being able
to handle it.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
We have to, as I.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Said, call it grief. And there's a particular kind of
grief that is experienced and a particular kind of loss
that we experience that we don't hear much about. These
are things that are overlooked, things that we don't talk about.
If you've never been marginalized, if you've never been subject
(21:49):
to racialization, discrimination, you don't understand the grief and the
loss and the pain, and we have not been taught
to deal with it or to address it because it
would make us seem it would make us seem weak.
So the first thing we have to do is to
acknowledge the pain and the grief.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
Call it what it is.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
It's something called an ambiguous loss, okay, And ambiguous loss
is when they're really you're really not sure what exactly
has been lost. Maybe it's hope, maybe it's a dream.
As you said, people were excited. It seemed like we
(22:34):
were on the verge of something brand new, and especially
when you consider the wide gap and ideologies between the
two candidates, Oh my goodness, people were, as you said,
Esther excited. And then those hopes get dashed, and the
(22:55):
grief comes from the loss of what was hoped for
and anticipated and expected. That could have meant a historic
moment for black and brown people, for people of color,
it was, it could have meant an historic moment for
(23:15):
so many marginalized people. That could have meant four years
of more opportunity and open doors and economic leveling and
so many things. On the contrary, we also recognized that
the ideology mister Trump was in such stark contrast to
(23:41):
what we were hoping for. That it's like having the
it was like having the rug pulled out from under
us at the last minute unexpectedly. That's an ambiguous loss
because some people would say, well, she lost what did
What did you lose? I mean, what's what's the big deal?
But here's here's how I here's how I say it.
(24:01):
How do you grieve moments of dignity loss that comes
from racism? How do you warn the health effects of
not having adequate health care coverage? How does one grieve
(24:22):
the effects of lost opportunities and broken promises, and loss
of revenue and closed doors, the freedom lost even by
the burden of suspicion that is on you as perhaps
a black man or a black woman. How do you
(24:42):
grieve that? Those are ambiguous losses? And a person who
doesn't understand that would say, well, and I don't understand what.
I don't get it. I mean maybe it's not fair,
but I mean, what did you lose?
Speaker 8 (24:53):
I mean?
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I had one person say to me, well, look at you.
You have a great career, and you've been successful, and
you're educated. Certainly you haven't been impacted by racism.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Wow, there was no concept no understanding of racism being
something different than just economics economic exactly.
Speaker 9 (25:21):
Yeah, I think that they were looking at it as
a dollars and cents versus exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
And then the suggestion was that, well, if you have
been affected by racism, you wouldn't have been able to
get your education and have this career that you have.
Oh but yeah, what they didn't understand. What they didn't understand,
that is so much more. There's so many abstract losses.
Speaker 9 (25:49):
Doctor Collins has a master's in community counseling and a
PhD in Christian counseling. And this book was extremely difficult
for her to write because she said that this was
born out of the loss of her son to suicide.
It was extremely difficult because of her background as a
minister in the church as well as her training as
(26:10):
a medical professional.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Here, I am a mental health professional, a minister, a mother.
Between my love, my knowledge, and my faith, I felt
that I should have been able to to recognize something.
My son was an adult, thirty two years old. He
was living on the West coast. I was on the
(26:31):
East coast, so there were obviously a lot of things
I didn't know. He wouldn't if he didn't share things
with me, I wouldn't have any way of knowing. But
but what I recognized is that although I graduated from
one of the highly respected programs master's degree in counseling,
(26:55):
I had learned a white approach and white values and
white culture in counseling. I had learned to do white
counseling with white people and to be as white as possible.
And that did not serve my black clients well. And
(27:20):
what I had learned didn't serve my son well. In
the year's post his passing, I spent a lot of
time reading, and I kept finding research pointing to what
was overlooked and missing in counseling with African Americans and
(27:42):
other indigenous or people of color. And when I put
it all together, it was clear there was a book
where I found a or created a compilation of a
number of societal issues, overlooked historical factors, overlooked identity issues,
overlooked clinical biases, overlooked losses, and overlooked strengths we have kept.
(28:07):
We are taught as counselors. We are commonly taught that
you don't bring up grace and culture unless the person
who has come to see you. I trant to use
the word clients anymore. I call the people who come
to see me members of my practice community, and that,
right there is one aspect of culturally astute, culturally sound care.
Speaker 9 (28:31):
You emphasize in your book the need for culturally conscious
mental health counseling, and I really really have a thing
for that, because I really feel like with many black
parents who have kids on the autism spectrum, they don't
have that opportunity to find mental health counseling with culturally
competent individuals readily.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
Really easily.
Speaker 9 (28:55):
So what does that look like for you when you're
talking about this in practice? What would you say would
be some of the things that need to change.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah, we have kept We are taught as counselors. We
are commonly taught that you don't bring up race and
culture unless the person who has come to see you.
I'm trying to use the word clients anymore. I call
the people who come to see me members of my
practice community, and that right there is one aspect of
(29:28):
culturally astute, culturally sound care. And I believe in bringing
culture and racial issues from the background to the foreground
of the counselor. Client conversation because there's nothing in my
life it's not affected by my blackness. Whether it's my marriage,
whether it's my work, whether it's my parenting, whether it's
(29:49):
my stress levels, is all affected in some way directly
or indirectly by my experience as a black woman. How
dare I not talk about that with a black woman
or a black man and act as if their culture,
their color is invisible and doesn't matter, it's not relevant
to whatever they gain to counsel.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
So we are running out of time. So I'd love
you to tell me what is the one main message
that you'd like people to take away when they pick
up your book?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
You are seen? And I'm I for one, and there
are others. I'm not the only person who's studying the
impact of racial identity on them on mental health. But
books like this and other books that are out there
now are ensuring that you are seen and when you
(30:39):
go to a counselor a therapist. We have a movement
to decolonize therapy so that you can get help that
fits you, that recognizes you and sees you. If you
are feeling like your life doesn't matter, don't believe that
(31:01):
lie your life matters. You are not a burden to
the people you care about. Please don't internalize that. Please
don't take that to heart. You We need you, We
need you to be healthy, We need you to give
this world everything that you've got. So get the help
that you need. And if the person that you start
(31:23):
with it as a counselor isn't giving you culturally responsive care,
don't give up on counseling. Find somebody else.
Speaker 9 (31:30):
Counseling works, and where can listeners find you and learn
more about your work and your book?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I am on my website is New Seasons an E
W S E A S O N S DOT Training
and their. Everything I provide in terms of counseling services
for my practice communities and the trainings that I provide
for other professionals are all described there.
Speaker 9 (32:00):
The book is called Overlooked Counselor Insights for the Unspoken
Issues in Black American Life. That's it for this edition
of The Color Between the Lines. Happy Mlkday, I'm Esther Dyllan,
Thank you, Esther The.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Black Information that Works. Morgan would sat down with the
Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association Commissioner Jackie McWilliams Parker the first
woman to hold the position and the first Black woman
commissioner representing NCAA Division one, two and three. She talked
with Morgan about HBCU culture, representation of sports, the state
of the CI Double A and HBCU Athletics, and more so.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
Joining me now on the Black Information Network is Jackie
McWilliams Parker, the commissioner of the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association,
also known as the CI Double A.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Now.
Speaker 12 (32:49):
Jackie's the first woman to hold the role and the
first black woman commissioner representing the NCAA Division one, two
and three.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
Now.
Speaker 12 (32:57):
She's held the role since twenty twelve, and so growth
has happened under her leadership, including a deal with ESPN
to broadcast the tournament and a launch of cilea's respective
sports network.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
Not to mention, she also supervised the move of the.
Speaker 12 (33:10):
Tournament from Charlotte, North Carolina to Baltimore, Maryland, where an
extension has been negotiated through twenty twenty six. Commissioner Jackie
McWilliams Parker, thank you for joining me here on the
Black Information Network.
Speaker 7 (33:22):
Thank you for inviting me. It's such a pleasure.
Speaker 12 (33:24):
Absolutely well, Happy New Year, how's your year? How's your
twenty twenty five off?
Speaker 8 (33:28):
Too?
Speaker 7 (33:29):
So far so good? You know, I want to start
well and in well, so so far so good. You know,
there's always highs and lows, but the CI DOUBLEA is strong,
and I feel very good about where we are and personally,
I feel really good about where I am and leading
the conferences in this new year, but also just being
a good person this year, a better person this year. Nice.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
All right, let's rewind just a little bit, so talk
to me a little bit about your work and how
you became to be commissioner.
Speaker 8 (33:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (33:58):
I was just telling my uncle, I said, some time
with some family this weekend in Connecticut, which was a blessing,
and I was sharing with them, like the CI double
A job was my dream job and I don't waiver
for that. It's my thirteenth season and I still say it,
and sometimes I'm like, Okay, wake me up. Am I
still in this position? Am I really leading this major
(34:18):
you know, beautiful first HBCU conference in the country. Do
I have this opportunity still? And yeah, I do. You know,
as you mentioned, there's been so much growth, but I've
had a lot of growth too. This is my thirty
first or thirty second year and working in college athletics.
Have had the opportunity to work in the HBCU world.
(34:38):
Virginia Union, Norfolk State worked in the conference before Morgan State,
but the h Some of my highlight was working at
the NCAA for almost ten years and really learning the
bigger business of college athletics and running championships the men's
Final four, Women's Final four, in a sleigh of other
championships that really helped shape my thinking about the business
(35:00):
model for the CI Double A and how I can
help transform what we do as an HBCU conference so
that we can be competitive and create the same type
of experience we do on the national level.
Speaker 12 (35:11):
Nice, so please share your thoughts on the current state
of the CI Double A and HBCU athletes and coaches
as a whole. I mean, right now there we're seeing
as surgeons. Of course we always knew who we were,
but we're seeing a surgence and interest of HBCUs on
a national scale on a major platforms.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I mean, you've seen.
Speaker 12 (35:34):
Deshaun Jackson recently be named head coach of Delaware State University.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Same for.
Speaker 12 (35:41):
That of Michael Vick at Norfolk State. Can we stand
to see any of those type of things for the
CI Double A and what are your thoughts on those
type of moves.
Speaker 7 (35:51):
I mean, I think anytime you know, the CI Double
A and HBCUs have always been the place where we
provide opportunity and access. Even if you didn't go to
you in HB see you if there's opportunity and there's
a great fit in that moment, we bring you home.
We bring you to a place where we know that
you might be able to help support you know, our
mission and our growth of who we are as HBCU.
(36:12):
So I'm really proud and grateful that our institutions have
given these men an opportunity to coach. We have a
lot of coaches currently in our conferences that would love
the same opportunity, And I think we always are tracking
our schools are tracking them too and making sure that
we're giving them those growth opportunities so that they're prepared
to step in those positions. You know, I think HBCUs
(36:33):
have always been strong. Just like you said, Morgan, I
don't think you know we have to do anything different
or special to showcase who we are. I think that
we have to continue to market and make it available
for our students to see our schools as their first
entry of a higher end and they can go every
wherever they else they want to go, but see us
as your first opportunity to get a degree. There's something
(36:56):
special and unique about the culture and the community one
on one. You know, presidents know your name, Deans know
your name. You're not just a number. You're really a
special part of them making sure that you graduate from
their institutions and that you give back in return like
we should to all of our institutions. So I would
just say, HBCUs, it's a heart and soul of mind.
(37:18):
It's a community where diversity, equity, and inclusion exists every
single day, and we have the opportunity to expand on
that in a very different way. On the diversity that
we do have at our institutions, from international, from state
to state, from Southerners West coasters. I mean, I think
people forget just because we're black college, we still have diversity,
(37:38):
and so you know, don't ever assume that we don't,
because we do, and we provide opportunities in the same
way that our other institutions do. It's just a different
culture that is exciting and fun, and it's to me,
it's black tourism and it's best in our communities. We
provide jobs and opportunity and education. It's awesome. I think, HBCUs,
(37:59):
We're always going to have these up and down moments,
but I think that's higher ed anyways. But the attentions
that our presidents have on our institutions and have the
community's care for our institutions, think we continue to thrive
the way that we do amazing.
Speaker 12 (38:14):
If I may put the spotlight back on you, as
a black woman who's made history in this role, what
are your thoughts on the representation of black women in sports?
Of course another interest that we've seen a surgeons in
for example like the Angel Reeses and the Caitlin clarks Well.
Of course Caitland is not black, but just women's sports overall.
Speaker 7 (38:33):
What are your thoughts, Yeah, I think, you know, on
the sports side and the participation, we're seeing young girls
having more access and opportunity to participate through club sports,
through high school sports. I think that's important. And then
for them to see themselves in the collegiate level or
the Olympic level or the professional level is even greater.
(38:54):
I think women have always dominated and done well in sports,
whether it's soccer or basketball or volleyball. But I think
the efforts of leadership, I'm just kidding, Yeah, leadership have
opened up doors on marketing resources that give more exposure
to these women so their stories can be told. That's
(39:16):
why the Caitlyn Kark's and the Angel Reeses. I mean,
there's some bad players before them, you know, that didn't
get that same exposure. But we're still playing the game
and doing very well. And so I think we're just
in a height of a situation where the exposure and
the opportunity and there's accountability with leadership to see that
you need to balance and equalize the opportunities that you're
(39:37):
giving women then.
Speaker 11 (39:39):
Like you do with men.
Speaker 7 (39:40):
And even HBCUs, you know, we have those constant conversations
about even our television rights. You know, we're with HBCU GO,
but we televise all of our sports with HBCU GO.
We try to give opportunity to our softball program, our
volleyball program, our men's and women's program, our ESPN deal
televises all games. We hire women to do commentating for
(40:03):
our games. So I think as leaders we have the
responsibility to make sure that the equity and the opportunities
they may not always be the same as men, but
we shouldn't close the door because we're women.
Speaker 12 (40:17):
Speaking of equity and opportunity, let's talk in il name,
image and likeness, which is a new market. It's a
whole it's a whole new thing. We're still learning to
navigate it. But let's talk nil deals and competitive market.
Do you feel like there is a competitive market for
HBCU student athletes in comparison to those who may be
(40:37):
at a PWI.
Speaker 7 (40:41):
You know that's tricky. I would say it's no, it's different.
I mean, I think just think about them, Just think
about the competitive market we have our scholarships with about
pwis right, I mean, if you just keep it real,
do we want to be competitive and be able to
recruit students and give them nil deals and all the
app Absolutely, But I think what's important that you know,
(41:03):
we all remember that HBCS wasn't established for athletic participation
in the first place. It was to give us an
opportunity to get an education when nobody else wouldn't do
rpwys talk about, and so the access to education is
critically important to our leadership at our schools, and then
sport is the ancillary. We're not going to put a
(41:23):
lot of focus on trying to pay kids to come
to our institutions. Either you want to come.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
Or you don't.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
When you come, we're going to give you the greatest
experience if you can get an NLI. It's our job
to make sure we educate you what that NIL means,
what the boundaries are, what the rules are around that.
But I know in Division two that's not a major
focus for us, not that we want to limit those opportunities.
They're just not the same as some of our larger
schools that have those access and alumni and boards that
(41:51):
you know, are able to provide some of that funding
to support and television rights that are allowed to support
some of that funding that Division one has. But in
Division two, I think we are truly a life of
a balance. In college athletics, I think our kids, you know,
they are creative. They've always been creative prior to our
in our in i L Division two supported NIL way
(42:12):
before it even became a national you know, visibility of
paying students or giving them opportunities to do things based
on their talent. And so I think in Division two
and our HBCUs and our Division one, I think we
try to keep priority of who we are and what
we are responsible to do when these young people come
(42:33):
to our schools, not limiting them the opportunity, but just
understanding the reality of what those opportunities are.
Speaker 12 (42:40):
Absolutely, and no look, no strade, no ta talk about it. Hey,
you got to understand what you're getting yourself into.
Speaker 7 (42:47):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 12 (42:48):
CIAA Commissioner Jackie McWilliams Parker is joining me right now
on the Black Information Network. Talk to me about what
your vision is for the future and hope for the
ci double A in the years to come.
Speaker 7 (42:59):
Yeah, you know, when I first got into the conference,
it was always about you know, we were like grinding,
just trying to get short term stability. It's always been
long term stability. If I left today, Morgan, I would
like to think that I let the conference better than
I came in, That the conference financial and economic situation
(43:19):
is much better than when I came in, and that
the resources that we have will provide our student athletes
the best opportunities and leadership opportunities, community impact opportunities, and
that we can share our stories in our you know,
in our legacy, like our resources are important because if
we don't have the resources longevity, then we don't get
(43:40):
to have the best championships for these student athletes, the
best gifts that they deserve. We can't provide the leadership
programs and bring them to the tournament for four or
five days and let them be around some of the
best entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs in the DMV area or within our sponsors.
And so I think as critical as we're going through
our strategic plan now we're talking about what do we
(44:01):
want the conference to be. We're going to have flag
football coming up here the spring as an innermural, hopefully
to add it as a full time sport for our conference.
Hopefully there's growth with the NCAA has been tracking on
it to become an NCAA championship. I mean, that's exciting.
We're creating more opportunities. We're also creating visibility for sport
that the NFL has been supporting, and so that's on
(44:24):
our you know, what sports do we need to support
and add to, you know, our list of sports. We
have fourteen in the past, we've had sixteen. I would
love to see baseball and I would love to see
women and men's soccer be a conference championship. I would
love to see men's tennis come back. But I think
those are just constant conversations we have with the board
because resources are real and they're tight, right, So you've
(44:46):
got to prioritize what's best. So we'll continue Morgan to
look at our sports sponsorship and how to provide access,
but you need revenue to do that and stabilizing our partners,
finding partners and categories that can help grow our scholarship base,
to give back to our schools, making sure that we
are putting out great bids that we can go to
(45:06):
great cities and hosts like we have been in Baltimore
and in the past and Charlotte to really support the
efforts of what we're doing in higher end but bringing
that all together in community for intercollegiate sports, like sports
is like the center of everything, right, and so we
have the opportunity in the SEEI double A to bring
all pieces of the puzzle, from the marketing to the sponsorships,
(45:27):
to the revenue, to the economic impact to the basketball
to the volleyball, whatever that is, community samaritance fee, giving
out shoes. I mean, CI double A can do that.
And I'm excited about continuing to look at how we
can build you know, who we are as a conference
and how we give that exposure so that more students
(45:47):
want to come to the thirteam member institutions that we
have and be a part of this amazing experience in history.
Speaker 12 (45:53):
Absolutely, and then before I let you go, let's talk
about the tournament, which you know is such a vibe
if you've never been, Oh my goodness, like, what are
you doing?
Speaker 7 (46:03):
Talk to me.
Speaker 12 (46:04):
About the CIAA Tournament twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7 (46:06):
What can we look forward to? Yeah, February twenty fifth
through March first. I mean, it truly is a week
of an experience. I'm really excited because this is our
fiftieth anyiversary for women's basketball. We celebrated seventy five years
of the tournament, which was really predicated to the men's
but we included our women in that seventy five years.
But this year we'll be focused. Our logo is based
(46:28):
on fifty years. All the implementations and activities surrounding. What
you're seeing in our social media is showcasing all the
MVPs over the last fifty years, the teams that have won.
You know, if you don't know, there's three three HBCUs
women's teams that have won the national championship. Virginia Union
(46:50):
was the first, Hampton University, which I played on the
team in nineteen eighty eight, and then Shaw University. There's
no other HBCU in the country that has won a
national championship in an HBCU. Now, remember Cheney did play
in the first Division one NCAA Division one women, so
we will never will always highlight that that's Vivian Stringer
(47:14):
in that historical moment. But to actually win a national championship,
these three women teams have done it, and so we
get to celebrate that. We get to highlight our women
at our Hall of Fame. Peggy Davis, who passed away
recently before the holidays at Virginia State University. She will
win our highest award, Jimmy Jenkins Legacy Award, which is
(47:37):
named after the former president at Livingstone College, which she
will also be inducted into our.
Speaker 6 (47:42):
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 7 (47:43):
And that's just one woman at a several other that
are in other sports that we get to celebrate during
this tournament. We have shirts that will be giving out.
It's a week of at seat double a experience, and
like you said, there's something for everyone, from the FanFest
to day parties, to step shows to education Day, middle
school Day. But mostly I want people to know that
(48:05):
I want them to get their tickets because we need
to pack this arena and celebrate the student athletes because
that's why we're there and all the other stuff. We're
gonna party and eat food, but what's really important is
that we celebrate our student athletes and let them know
their work is noticed and we're here to support them,
and then we're going to have a good time after
we watched some great games. I love that. I absolutely
(48:27):
love that.
Speaker 12 (48:27):
Thank you so much for joining me, Commissioner Jackie, I
appreciate you.
Speaker 7 (48:31):
For being here. Oh, thank you. Such a pleasure.
Speaker 12 (48:34):
All right, And.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Doug Davis is back to finish up his conversation with
DEI consultant Dante King, who's ties with the University of California,
San Francisco were severed before speaking to a group of
medical students about anti racism. The conversation will most likely
morph into a discussion about Trump, DEI, and the future
of affirmative action in America.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
Doug.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Hey, Thanks Mike. This is Doug Davis, continuing our conversation
with DEI, consultant and author of a soon to be
released book entitled Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness Dante King.
King was recently canceled from hosting an anti racism class
for medical staff at the University of California, San Francisco
after controversial statements he made last year at a campus
(49:18):
black history event. And he's here with us to discuss
President ELEC. Trump, racism and DEI. Dante, Welcome back to
the bi in King. Before we move on, do you
ever think that one day whites and blacks can find
success together in this country? You know, sometimes I think
implicit bias, they're blinders. They keep people from seeing the
(49:39):
reality because of the conditioning of whatever they've experienced in
their life. I just want to share a quick story.
Speaker 6 (49:45):
I remember not.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Long ago, a publicist who is white contacted me about
an interview with a high level black educator, and so
we did the interview and it was about systemic racism
and education. So the white publicist stayed on the call
when we did the interview, and afterwards she called back
and she said Doug, I didn't know, I said, you
(50:10):
didn't know? What she was like, I didn't know that's
what black people have been going through. I'm like, what
do you mean you didn't know. You can't see it,
look at the disparity. She couldn't see it, but she
saw it and it changed her life. And so we
continue to talk regularly when she has guests and stuff,
and you know, we share perspectives, and I believe that
(50:32):
one day, if we could really just have a great conversation,
we can solve racism.
Speaker 11 (50:38):
Your thoughts, I want to say, though, to your point,
That's what Martin Luther King thought at one point, and
toward the end of his life he says, no, we're
dealing with people who are immoral at the core when
it comes to the issue of race and racism. And
that's what doctor Bobby Wright was saying. He's saying, you know,
if you study the history of whiteness and its evolution,
(51:00):
what my work looks at, in a somewhat of a
forensic analysis, that these people are being programmed to be
psychopathic in relationship to black people. And James Baldwin he
even said, you know in nineteen seventy nine that we're
dealing with moral monsters, moral monsters, and I think the machine,
(51:20):
the way that America functions, it uses racism and division
in the affirmative It's part of the value structure, and
so it will not allow human beings to access our
full humanity to be in those relationships that you are suggesting.
The other thing I want to say is this whole
Dei conversation is the result of white people not seeing
(51:41):
themselves as a part of the Dei equation. And I
think when we have any of these discussions and we
make that mistake, we leave white people out of the
Dei process, and we forget to highlight or we don't
highlight that white America functions off of systems and processes
of white affirmative action and white sponsorship. That all of
(52:03):
American institutions based on whiteness as the predicate for citizenship,
set the basy for white institutions to prioritize white people
in the white community, and that has continue to be
the reality since the founding of this country. And so
we need to talk about white affirmative action in white
(52:23):
sponsorship and add that to the Dei conversation.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Let's roll over to Trump when he gets a new office,
opinions on DEI will be sharply divided. Supporters are deeply
concerned about the potential rollback of initiatives that promote diversity
and inclusion in workplaces and institutions, fear that their progress
made in recent years could be undone, leading to a
less inclusive environment for marginalized communities. On the other hand,
(52:49):
critics of DEI, including some conservative groups, argue that these
initiatives are unnecessary and even divisive. How would you describe
your overall perspective on the Trump administration's policies and actions
as he gets ready to come into office.
Speaker 11 (53:04):
So, I think white people overall, including Donald Trump, believe
that they are the only people that should be deserving
of opportunities. I think one aspect of their belief system
is that, and this has been expressed openly pretty recently
by a number of people, that they they're founders, people
who were white, white men started this country, that they
(53:25):
did not intend to give it away. That's number one.
I think number two, we're dealing with people who, no
matter what they do, no matter how inadequate they are,
no matter how mediocre or insufficient they are, they believe
themselves to be supreme. Case in point, there's someone right now,
the guy Pete Hegseth, who was nominated by Donald Trump
(53:47):
to lead the Defense Department.
Speaker 6 (53:49):
He is.
Speaker 11 (53:52):
Wholly inadequate and unqualified for that job. And yet there
is no sense of how should we have should I
have made this decision? We have made this decision to
set this person forward.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
Right.
Speaker 11 (54:05):
But you can have someone like a Kamala Harris, who
is the most qualified person who's ever run for president
in the history of this country, serving in all three
branches of government, legislative, executive, and judicial, and she'd be
questioned about her qualifications, her capabilities, whether she's competent enough,
and then you hear white men. We saw during the
(54:27):
campaign season a number of white men suggesting that she's
a dei president. Right, And so we have to understand
that we're dealing with people who are pathological in nature.
My newest book, Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness, White psycho Pathology,
collective psycho collective psychosis, and Trauma in America, we have
(54:49):
to understand we are dealing with people who are mentally sick,
who have been programmed to believe that they are the
best of the best, no matter if they are the
worst of the worst.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
S all white people or just a majority, or.
Speaker 11 (55:05):
In my work and especially over the last I would say,
you know, ten to fifteen years doing workshops and talking
to white people, I've become to understand that what I
am saying to you is kind of an inherent constant
(55:26):
or belief amongst at least every white person that I
have met, because most of them, in the right environment,
with the right level of safety, garnered in the right
type of confidentiality, most of them will admit or all
of them in my experience, have admitted in some form
(55:47):
of what I am saying that they are not used
to holding themselves or holding each other accountable for being
mediocre or for being inadequate.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
What are your thoughts on how how black professionals should
prepare themselves for the Trump administration.
Speaker 11 (56:05):
It's interesting I called those people. I see those people
as having what I call free black people syndrome. The
one one remark I always pretty make pretty often is
that there have always been free black people in America's
during the through the colonial period into the founding of
the United States, and I believe a faction of those
(56:27):
people saw themselves as being much better than the status
of most Black people who were enslaved, because those enslaved
people represented the bottom of the bottom class and those
free black people represented a different class. And you know,
I think w EV De Boys talks about this a
little bit in his book Black Reconstruction in America, or
(56:48):
there's some suggestions suggestions around this that you know, those
people function differently. They're not in touch with the priorities
or the challenges or the canncerned of black people who
are severely disenfranchised, and so those individuals see themselves as
(57:09):
being special. I used to be one of them, and
so you think you've worked really hard, you're the only
one in the room, and you think that represents something
of value to you when it really doesn't. And it
can be hard many times to function to be the
only one. But some people wear it as a badge
of honor and they value tokenism. They value being the token,
the special black person that was selected to do this job.
(57:32):
So we have to see what then shakes out and
what becomes of black corporate professionals. I think though that
one and I know this is off topic, but a
bit of a side note. It's so interesting to see
how many black people supported Donald Trump through the campaign period,
but also now the lack or the absence of black
people who have been recommended for cabinet positions in his administration.
(57:57):
I think that is very jarring and eye opening.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Agreed, Dante. Before you get out of here, if you
can just share your contact information how folks listening can
get in contact with you if they need to. And
also let's talk about your book and where people can
buy it.
Speaker 11 (58:11):
Certainly, please go to Dante King dot com and subscribe
to my website. That's again Dante King dot com. You
can also follow me on Instagram That's Dante d King Official.
I'm on Facebook, I'm just Dante King Official without the
dep I'm also on TikTok and I'm on Twitter Dante
King twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (58:30):
My book, the new book.
Speaker 11 (58:32):
Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness, will be out on February third.
But if you go to Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness
dot com, there's a ten part episodic docuseriies that I
filmed with a group of former students, friends and colleagues
to discuss some of the themes in my book. It's
ten episodes, so each episode is priced at nine dollars
(58:53):
and ninety nine cents, and then the I think the
full ten episodes is priced at around ninety dollars, so
please go and check it out. And then I look
forward to engaging more about with you, Doug, and about
my book too.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
Absolutely we'll be hearing more from you in twenty twenty
five and beyond. Trust me. This is Doug Davis from
the Black Perspective right here on the Black Information Network.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Thanks Doug, and that's our program for this week. For
more on these stories, listen to the Black Information Network
on the free iHeartRadio app or log onto bionnews dot
com for all of the latest news impacting the black community. Also,
be sure to follow us on social media at Black
Information Network and on blue Sky at black Info Net.
(59:32):
I'm Mike Island, wishing everyone a great Sunday and happy
Martin Luther King Junior Day. Be sure to tune in
next week at this time for another edition of The
Black Perspective right here on the Black Information Network
It's Sunday, January nineteenth, and on today's show, Andrea Coleman
talks to the president of the National Civil Rights Museum,
doctor Russell Wigginton, about preserving the legacy of Black luminaries
like doctor Martin Luther King Junior. Esther Dillard addresses how
this King Holiday will be different this year with the
presidential inauguration being the same weekend. Morgan Wood talks to
(00:20):
the first black woman Commissioner of the CI Double A,
Jackie McWilliams Parker, about the representation HBCU culture the CI
Double A and Moore and Doug Davis is back with
DEI consultant Dante King, whose ties with the University of California,
San Francisco were severed before speaking to a group of
medical students about anti racism. These stories and more are
(00:43):
coming your way on today's program. Welcome to the Black Perspective.
I'm your host, Mike Island.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to the Black Perspective, a weekly community affairs program
on the Black Information Network featuring interviews and discussions on
issues important to the Black community.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Good Sunday, everyone, and Happy Martin Luther King Junior Day weekend,
and Welcome to the black perspective. The National Civil Rights
Museum is located on the site of the Lorraine Motel
in Memphis, Tennessee, where doctor Martin Luther King, Junior was
killed on April fourth, nineteen sixty eight. The museum stands
as a reminder of the kinds of sacrifices demanded of
the black community in its fight for freedom and equality
(01:22):
in America. On the eve of this year's King Holiday,
doctor Russ Wiganton, president of the Museum, speaks with the
Black Information Networks Andrea Coleman about the importance of supporting
institutions that chronicle the civil rights movement and protect the
legacy of black luminaries like doctor King.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Doctor Wigington, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Tell us a little bit about what the National Civil
Rights Museum has planned for the MLK Holiday this year.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Absolutely, and King Day is certainly always special here at
the National Civil Rights Museum. It's a moment of celebration.
I think it's a moment of renewal and rejuvenation for
all people, but particularly at the museum. We have so
many people who come from all over the world to
be in the space where people know doctor King wants
(02:09):
grace to be reminded of his contributions to our world,
to be reminded of the work that we do today.
I mean, we serve as a town square for this community,
but we serve as a part of national consciousness and
international humanity. And we will have between ten and fifteen
(02:32):
thousand people gracing our wonderful campus that day. And it's
a free and open to the public moment where just
watching people interact and be in community and being celebration
and appreciation mode.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
It's a sight to behold.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, I can only imagine.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Now.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
This year's theme is Community over Chaos.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Thank you for that question. Community over Chaos is connected
to several things. We have a major renovation on going
here at the museum, the boarding house which is the
place where the alleged shot was fired from across the
street from the Lorraine Hotel, which is part of the
museum experience, and the surrounding exterior, a community park which
(03:15):
is being revitalized and really incorporated into the experience. The
overarching theme for all of that work, which is really
about from nineteen sixty eight to the present, so the
Loraine is up until doctor King was assassinated the boarding
House is sixty eight to the present. The overarching theme
(03:36):
for that is the title of doctor King's last book,
where do we go from here?
Speaker 6 (03:42):
Chaos or community?
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And that very powerful and important question we think is
still relevant today and we are wanting people to know,
in the spirit of doctor King, we're choosing community over chaos.
And at a moment where in our society can sometimes
feel like we've opted for chaos as the default, we're
(04:05):
here to remind people in fact that is not.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
The case, and that it is indeed a choice.
Speaker 8 (04:11):
And if you choose community, there are steps you can take,
ways you can think, actions you can implement to really
be about the business of community and community building over chaos.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
That's so very important and when you talk about that reminder,
it really is the theme that resonates with Doctor King's
life and his message. How important is it that we
embrace that theme and that message, especially that of non violence.
And as you just reference the climate of today, so.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
We live it every day here at the museum, and
you stand at on our courtyard and just watch people
as they are entering our campus. It's a magical thing
to witness because part of what happens is people gather
outside in the courtyard and they're looking up at the balcony,
and they're looking up at the wreath on the balcony
(05:01):
outside of Room three six where Doctor King took.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
His last breath.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
And there are people from all walks to life. They
are people who are speaking all languages. There are people
who are from all socio economic backgrounds and political affiliations,
and all of the ways that we often tend to divide.
None of those things quite seem to matter when they're
(05:26):
on that courtyard and they're having that moment, and they're
having this sort of sacred moment before they even enter
the museum, and so we get a chance to see
the power literally of place. We get to see what
that does to people, and we get to see what
happens when people pause for a minute and remove judgment,
(05:49):
take a moment sometimes to hear and understand the stories
of others and their respective journey. It's remarkable because when
they come in, people have different knowledge levels of what
they're going to experience in the museum, and so what
they know and don't know is going to ebb and flow,
But we provide an experience that, however, and wherever you enter,
(06:13):
you're going to be enhanced intellectually about the movement, but
you're also going to have your heart touched. And regardless
of all those alleged differences, that happens for everybody who
has an experience at the National Civil Rights Museum.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So what do we see there that we don't see elsewhere?
Speaker 5 (06:32):
The first thing I'd like to say is we're a
close knit community.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
We help and assist and rely on each other.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
And I get asked all the time or we in competition,
And my response is I love the fact that more
spaces have come on board in recent years because that's
about awareness raising.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
In my mind, there's.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
Plenty of opportunity for people to have these experiences at
all these phenomenal places. I think of it as never
as competition and more about collective awareness raising. One of
the things we're proud of is we're the oldest and
the first that comprehensive civil and Human rights museum established
(07:18):
in nineteen ninety one, and unfortunately, as a byproduct of
where the ultimate leader of that movement was killed, I mean,
something happened that transformed the world literally on our site,
and you know, it's kind of hard to explain, but
it feels different.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
I've been to all those places. I love all those places.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Even folks who work and lead those places will tell
you it feels different here.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
It just does.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
I mean, all those places have something special and dynamic
about them, but it does feel different here. And with that,
for us comes a tremendous sense of responsibility. But I
will tell you that the story of how this place
came about is also a powerful one. It was twenty
years it laid in disrepair. This motel did and almost
(08:09):
didn't happen. And I could tell you that when it
opened this September of nineteen ninety one, nobody was anticipating
that thirty four years later we would have north of
a quarter of a million visitors annually from all over
the world.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
So what's next for the museum And you've been there
now leading it since August of twenty twenty one, what
do you see as a future goals and what's next
on your plate for the museum?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Well, we have a phenomenal renovation that's underway right now.
I like to put price tags on these things because
I want people to understand the magnitude. It's a thirty
eight million dollar renovation which is significant for us. It
is a redesign and expansion of our exterior so people
(08:58):
would gather outside of the museum. There's a park that
is being redesigned such that much more community oriented. So
that is an important step for us. That will open
this summer. And then the Legacy Building or the boarding
house that's where the alleged shot was fired from that
killed doctor King, and we've owned that space for about
(09:20):
twenty years, but prior to now it was very focused
on the assassination. What we're doing now is utilizing that
in renovating that building to talk about nineteen sixty eight
to the present. So people would leave the Lorraine Motel
after visiting room three h six and say what happened
(09:40):
after doctor King died?
Speaker 6 (09:42):
To the movement, what happened?
Speaker 5 (09:44):
And this is an opportunity for us to answer the
question that the movement continue and.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Lives on today.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
And so that building will highlight all manner of civil
and human rights moments after first steps forward steps backward
over the last fifty plus years, and so helping people
connect to it and personalize it so that they can
(10:11):
see themselves and be inspired to take.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Their appropriate role in making society reach its full.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Potential, which is at the core of what doctor King
always talked about. You always talked about everybody has a
role to play. You always talked about the importance of
each of us as individuals and certainly as a collective.
But everybody has a role to play. It it's hard, frankly,
for young people to see the role they play if
(10:38):
all they can see and touch happened in nineteen sixty two.
We want to talk about some things that happen in
twenty twenty two that have civil and human rights implications.
And so that project is we think, probably the most
important thing we could do right now to be relevant
(10:58):
for the next twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
And how do we support you in that effort.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
First of all, to visit the museum is so important,
But if they can't get here physically, to go online.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
So many of our programs now are.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Hybrid and people can experience dimensions of the museum.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
On King Day ten o'clock Central, you can have a
virtual experience on King Day.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
You can feel like you're amongst the thousands of people
who will be on our campus that day. You can
participate and register for that event, and you can register
for several of the educational programs.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
We fundraise so.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
That people can get access to those things at no cost.
So if you have the ability and interest, you can
contribute funds to us so that we can continue to
do that, so that people aren't denied the opportunity to
touch and feel the National Civil Rights Museum.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Why are institutions like the National Civil Rights Museum important
for our society?
Speaker 5 (12:03):
I think, and I'm a historian about trainings, you probably
won't be surprised to hear me say this, but it's
in the moment, particularly the way our society sort of
the rhythm of our society now, which is so fast
and immediate, it's easy to not appreciate understand both the
(12:24):
power of the moment. Yet this moment too shall pass, right,
and so both of those things are true, and we
tend not to think about whatever we're doing now that
in not too far from now, it will be a
part of history.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
I mean, that's kind of how it goes.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
And while it might be a hair uncomfortable for some people,
I firmly believe that the overwhelming majority of people in
our society want to be on the right side of history.
And when we look back and we decipher of who's
on the wrong side of history. They didn't plan necessarily
(13:06):
mostly I plan to be on the wrong side of history.
But you know, in doctor King's unbelievably eloquent letter from
a Birmingham jail, he says really clearly, I'm writing this
to basically everyday folks, right. I mean, he's writing to clergy,
but he's speaking to everybody. And what he is basically
(13:28):
saying is you don't have to be dramatically in any
particular place. However, if you ought to be a passive participant,
that's actually making.
Speaker 8 (13:39):
A decision, and it's making a decision that.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
Places you on the wrong side of history. So all
of us, in our own respective way.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Can find ourselves acting, doing participating to land on the
right side of history. And you know, I'm not here
to tell people what that is, but I am here
to tell people that if they want to be on
the right side of history, they've got to explore and
identify how that can.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Indeed be the case.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
It doesn't happen by accident, and you don't just show
up and passively exist and find yourself being on.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
The right side of history. It doesn't work that far.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
And so I just want people to educate themselves, make
sure that they're making decisions that are at least based
on something they believe in. Being sympathetic and identifying and
connecting with people through the lens of civility with a
fundamental respect for all of humanity. And when you do that,
(14:44):
you are situated to land on the right side of history.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I love that. What is your favorite quote from doctor.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
King Ah All labor has dignity. It makes all people
count and be value. It's so easy to have people
be invisible if their work is considered less important or
low pay. We somehow associate that with the quality of
(15:11):
how people are. And he made clear that all labor
has dignity, and whatever your work is, if you do
the best that you can and you're the best at that,
and you're seeking to be the best at that, that
in and of.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Itself is worthwhile and worthy, and that every one of
us has a place and we all count.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Doctor Wikington, thank you again for joining us. We've spoken
to you for several years now and it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
Thank you again, My pleasure great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Thank you, Andrea. You can learn more about the National
Civil Rights Museum at Civil Rights Museum dot org. As
doctor Wigginton mentioned, events at the museum honoring the King
Holiday tomorrow will be available online starting at ten am
Central time. The legacy of doctor Martin Luther King Junior
will be celebrated tomorrow. However, this year is extremely different
(16:05):
and for some stressful The Black Information That works. Ester
Dildard addresses some of the reasons why on this week's
edition of The Color between the Lines.
Speaker 9 (16:14):
This week The Color between the Lines is a little
bit different. Usually I connect with one author, we talk
about one book, and then I close. But because this
is the week of January twentieth, I wanted to give
you a little bit of context as to why I
chose this particular author and this conversation. January twentieth is
the day that we celebrate the life and the legacy
(16:35):
of Martin Luther King Junior, and it also is the
day that we are inaugurating the second inauguration of Donald J.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
Trump.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
About a week ago, I spoke with a man by
the name of Jonathan Kirkland. He is a DC resident
and he's also the marketing manager for an app called BLK.
BLK is a lifestyles and dating app. And the reason
we were talking was because the folks running his business
had launched something called hashtag BLK Freedom Weekend, and that
(17:09):
was to help black residents who were living in the
DC area to offer them an opportunity to leave d
C during MLK Weekend because of the inauguration. And I
asked him what prompted him to do this?
Speaker 10 (17:25):
It really was because so I'm DC based and me
and my friends were talking about inauguration weekend. I wasn't
here during the last inauguration during or the insurrection, if
you will, so a lot of people that were here
during that, the sentiment, you know, just wasn't one of happiness,
if you will, And especially like those who are from
(17:46):
the DC area just seeing what was happening in their city.
So all of my friends are like they're leaving town,
They're getting out of Dodge or just going somewhere.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
They don't want to be here during that. So I
thought that was interesting.
Speaker 10 (17:56):
And then me seeing things here firsthand, like even Jimmy
Carter's funeral yesterday, like seeing things firsthand really makes a difference.
So what we wanted to do is just ask our
users in the area, like their feelings and their sentiment
about inauguration, especially since it comes on the same weekend
as MLK. We can and you know, doctor King was
(18:18):
all about freedom inequality for all. So in that survey,
we found that, you know, our users were angry, they
were concerned, they were anxious, they had fears about public safety,
and you know all those types of concerns that anybody
would be feelful for, especially when they think about four
years ago with the insurrection.
Speaker 11 (18:35):
So based on that data, we thought it would.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
Be something that we can do to help our users.
Speaker 10 (18:39):
So those living in the area if they want to
get away, whether it's just to Richmond or you know,
to down the street or the next state over to
New York or to Philly or wherever they want to go,
to give them the opportunity and the ability to do that,
and again that would help them to connect with other people.
And we're all about connections as a connecting app. So
it was just something in a creative and unique way
(19:01):
that we can help our users and help those in
the area. Knowing based on the data the feelings that
they were feeling.
Speaker 9 (19:08):
BLK did a survey that revealed that eighty percent of
black DC residents felt anxious or angry about the inauguration,
and forty one percent that they prefer to leave DC
altogether to avoid the chaos.
Speaker 7 (19:23):
He said.
Speaker 9 (19:24):
Hashtag Freedom Weekend offered their community a chance to win
a vacation away from DC.
Speaker 10 (19:31):
It's not necessarily like if you can use the voucher
wherever you want, but we would love to see it use.
It be going to another city to catch up with
a college roommate, or an old friend you haven't seen,
or somebody you know you met on the app that
you might meet for the first time, or even a
family member. So what we want to do is be
that service to our users where they can make these
(19:53):
connections and you know, just progress in whatever they're trying
to do.
Speaker 9 (19:57):
That led me to my guest author and counsel doctor
Laverne Haines Collins. She wrote a book called Overlooked Counselor
Insights for the Unspoken Issues in Black American Life. It's
a deep dive into how when it comes to loss,
mental health professionals often overlook that loss for African Americans
is multi layered, connected not only to their personal history,
(20:21):
but to their collective cultural history. And when it comes
to January twentieth. Many Black Americans are still unpacking that
loss with their emotions, the loss of Kamala Harris losing
the election. Many people were on a high when they
were It was the election Harris was running, it was
the close to the end. People had aspirations and hope
(20:45):
of something different for the next and seeing perhaps the
first black woman to actually become the president of the
United States was something that was extremely hopeful for a
lot of people, and then when it didn't happen, it
was dashed.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
And you mentioned that, you know.
Speaker 9 (21:04):
People often when we're disappointed, we just keep it moving,
but that can cause problems later on. How do black people,
I guess, address that conundrum in not being you know,
going into a deep depression, but also just being able
to handle it.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
We have to, as I.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Said, call it grief. And there's a particular kind of
grief that is experienced and a particular kind of loss
that we experience that we don't hear much about. These
are things that are overlooked, things that we don't talk about.
If you've never been marginalized, if you've never been subject
(21:49):
to racialization, discrimination, you don't understand the grief and the
loss and the pain, and we have not been taught
to deal with it or to address it because it
would make us seem it would make us seem weak.
So the first thing we have to do is to
acknowledge the pain and the grief.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
Call it what it is.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
It's something called an ambiguous loss, okay, And ambiguous loss
is when they're really you're really not sure what exactly
has been lost. Maybe it's hope, maybe it's a dream.
As you said, people were excited. It seemed like we
(22:34):
were on the verge of something brand new, and especially
when you consider the wide gap and ideologies between the
two candidates, Oh my goodness, people were, as you said,
Esther excited. And then those hopes get dashed, and the
(22:55):
grief comes from the loss of what was hoped for
and anticipated and expected. That could have meant a historic
moment for black and brown people, for people of color,
it was, it could have meant an historic moment for
(23:15):
so many marginalized people. That could have meant four years
of more opportunity and open doors and economic leveling and
so many things. On the contrary, we also recognized that
the ideology mister Trump was in such stark contrast to
(23:41):
what we were hoping for. That it's like having the
it was like having the rug pulled out from under
us at the last minute unexpectedly. That's an ambiguous loss
because some people would say, well, she lost what did
What did you lose? I mean, what's what's the big deal?
But here's here's how I here's how I say it.
(24:01):
How do you grieve moments of dignity loss that comes
from racism? How do you warn the health effects of
not having adequate health care coverage? How does one grieve
(24:22):
the effects of lost opportunities and broken promises, and loss
of revenue and closed doors, the freedom lost even by
the burden of suspicion that is on you as perhaps
a black man or a black woman. How do you
(24:42):
grieve that? Those are ambiguous losses? And a person who
doesn't understand that would say, well, and I don't understand what.
I don't get it. I mean maybe it's not fair,
but I mean, what did you lose?
Speaker 8 (24:53):
I mean?
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I had one person say to me, well, look at you.
You have a great career, and you've been successful, and
you're educated. Certainly you haven't been impacted by racism.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Wow, there was no concept no understanding of racism being
something different than just economics economic exactly.
Speaker 9 (25:21):
Yeah, I think that they were looking at it as
a dollars and cents versus exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
And then the suggestion was that, well, if you have
been affected by racism, you wouldn't have been able to
get your education and have this career that you have.
Oh but yeah, what they didn't understand. What they didn't understand,
that is so much more. There's so many abstract losses.
Speaker 9 (25:49):
Doctor Collins has a master's in community counseling and a
PhD in Christian counseling. And this book was extremely difficult
for her to write because she said that this was
born out of the loss of her son to suicide.
It was extremely difficult because of her background as a
minister in the church as well as her training as
(26:10):
a medical professional.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Here, I am a mental health professional, a minister, a mother.
Between my love, my knowledge, and my faith, I felt
that I should have been able to to recognize something.
My son was an adult, thirty two years old. He
was living on the West coast. I was on the
(26:31):
East coast, so there were obviously a lot of things
I didn't know. He wouldn't if he didn't share things
with me, I wouldn't have any way of knowing. But
but what I recognized is that although I graduated from
one of the highly respected programs master's degree in counseling,
(26:55):
I had learned a white approach and white values and
white culture in counseling. I had learned to do white
counseling with white people and to be as white as possible.
And that did not serve my black clients well. And
(27:20):
what I had learned didn't serve my son well. In
the year's post his passing, I spent a lot of
time reading, and I kept finding research pointing to what
was overlooked and missing in counseling with African Americans and
(27:42):
other indigenous or people of color. And when I put
it all together, it was clear there was a book
where I found a or created a compilation of a
number of societal issues, overlooked historical factors, overlooked identity issues,
overlooked clinical biases, overlooked losses, and overlooked strengths we have kept.
(28:07):
We are taught as counselors. We are commonly taught that
you don't bring up grace and culture unless the person
who has come to see you. I trant to use
the word clients anymore. I call the people who come
to see me members of my practice community, and that,
right there is one aspect of culturally astute, culturally sound care.
Speaker 9 (28:31):
You emphasize in your book the need for culturally conscious
mental health counseling, and I really really have a thing
for that, because I really feel like with many black
parents who have kids on the autism spectrum, they don't
have that opportunity to find mental health counseling with culturally
competent individuals readily.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
Really easily.
Speaker 9 (28:55):
So what does that look like for you when you're
talking about this in practice? What would you say would
be some of the things that need to change.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah, we have kept We are taught as counselors. We
are commonly taught that you don't bring up race and
culture unless the person who has come to see you.
I'm trying to use the word clients anymore. I call
the people who come to see me members of my
practice community, and that right there is one aspect of
(29:28):
culturally astute, culturally sound care. And I believe in bringing
culture and racial issues from the background to the foreground
of the counselor. Client conversation because there's nothing in my
life it's not affected by my blackness. Whether it's my marriage,
whether it's my work, whether it's my parenting, whether it's
(29:49):
my stress levels, is all affected in some way directly
or indirectly by my experience as a black woman. How
dare I not talk about that with a black woman
or a black man and act as if their culture,
their color is invisible and doesn't matter, it's not relevant
to whatever they gain to counsel.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
So we are running out of time. So I'd love
you to tell me what is the one main message
that you'd like people to take away when they pick
up your book?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
You are seen? And I'm I for one, and there
are others. I'm not the only person who's studying the
impact of racial identity on them on mental health. But
books like this and other books that are out there
now are ensuring that you are seen and when you
(30:39):
go to a counselor a therapist. We have a movement
to decolonize therapy so that you can get help that
fits you, that recognizes you and sees you. If you
are feeling like your life doesn't matter, don't believe that
(31:01):
lie your life matters. You are not a burden to
the people you care about. Please don't internalize that. Please
don't take that to heart. You We need you, We
need you to be healthy, We need you to give
this world everything that you've got. So get the help
that you need. And if the person that you start
(31:23):
with it as a counselor isn't giving you culturally responsive care,
don't give up on counseling. Find somebody else.
Speaker 9 (31:30):
Counseling works, and where can listeners find you and learn
more about your work and your book?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I am on my website is New Seasons an E
W S E A S O N S DOT Training
and their. Everything I provide in terms of counseling services
for my practice communities and the trainings that I provide
for other professionals are all described there.
Speaker 9 (32:00):
The book is called Overlooked Counselor Insights for the Unspoken
Issues in Black American Life. That's it for this edition
of The Color Between the Lines. Happy Mlkday, I'm Esther Dyllan,
Thank you, Esther The.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Black Information that Works. Morgan would sat down with the
Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association Commissioner Jackie McWilliams Parker the first
woman to hold the position and the first Black woman
commissioner representing NCAA Division one, two and three. She talked
with Morgan about HBCU culture, representation of sports, the state
of the CI Double A and HBCU Athletics, and more so.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
Joining me now on the Black Information Network is Jackie
McWilliams Parker, the commissioner of the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association,
also known as the CI Double A.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Now.
Speaker 12 (32:49):
Jackie's the first woman to hold the role and the
first black woman commissioner representing the NCAA Division one, two
and three.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
Now.
Speaker 12 (32:57):
She's held the role since twenty twelve, and so growth
has happened under her leadership, including a deal with ESPN
to broadcast the tournament and a launch of cilea's respective
sports network.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
Not to mention, she also supervised the move of the.
Speaker 12 (33:10):
Tournament from Charlotte, North Carolina to Baltimore, Maryland, where an
extension has been negotiated through twenty twenty six. Commissioner Jackie
McWilliams Parker, thank you for joining me here on the
Black Information Network.
Speaker 7 (33:22):
Thank you for inviting me. It's such a pleasure.
Speaker 12 (33:24):
Absolutely well, Happy New Year, how's your year? How's your
twenty twenty five off?
Speaker 8 (33:28):
Too?
Speaker 7 (33:29):
So far so good? You know, I want to start
well and in well, so so far so good. You know,
there's always highs and lows, but the CI DOUBLEA is strong,
and I feel very good about where we are and personally,
I feel really good about where I am and leading
the conferences in this new year, but also just being
a good person this year, a better person this year. Nice.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
All right, let's rewind just a little bit, so talk
to me a little bit about your work and how
you became to be commissioner.
Speaker 8 (33:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (33:58):
I was just telling my uncle, I said, some time
with some family this weekend in Connecticut, which was a blessing,
and I was sharing with them, like the CI double
A job was my dream job and I don't waiver
for that. It's my thirteenth season and I still say it,
and sometimes I'm like, Okay, wake me up. Am I
still in this position? Am I really leading this major
(34:18):
you know, beautiful first HBCU conference in the country. Do
I have this opportunity still? And yeah, I do. You know,
as you mentioned, there's been so much growth, but I've
had a lot of growth too. This is my thirty
first or thirty second year and working in college athletics.
Have had the opportunity to work in the HBCU world.
(34:38):
Virginia Union, Norfolk State worked in the conference before Morgan State,
but the h Some of my highlight was working at
the NCAA for almost ten years and really learning the
bigger business of college athletics and running championships the men's
Final four, Women's Final four, in a sleigh of other
championships that really helped shape my thinking about the business
(35:00):
model for the CI Double A and how I can
help transform what we do as an HBCU conference so
that we can be competitive and create the same type
of experience we do on the national level.
Speaker 12 (35:11):
Nice, so please share your thoughts on the current state
of the CI Double A and HBCU athletes and coaches
as a whole. I mean, right now there we're seeing
as surgeons. Of course we always knew who we were,
but we're seeing a surgence and interest of HBCUs on
a national scale on a major platforms.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I mean, you've seen.
Speaker 12 (35:34):
Deshaun Jackson recently be named head coach of Delaware State University.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Same for.
Speaker 12 (35:41):
That of Michael Vick at Norfolk State. Can we stand
to see any of those type of things for the
CI Double A and what are your thoughts on those
type of moves.
Speaker 7 (35:51):
I mean, I think anytime you know, the CI Double
A and HBCUs have always been the place where we
provide opportunity and access. Even if you didn't go to
you in HB see you if there's opportunity and there's
a great fit in that moment, we bring you home.
We bring you to a place where we know that
you might be able to help support you know, our
mission and our growth of who we are as HBCU.
(36:12):
So I'm really proud and grateful that our institutions have
given these men an opportunity to coach. We have a
lot of coaches currently in our conferences that would love
the same opportunity, And I think we always are tracking
our schools are tracking them too and making sure that
we're giving them those growth opportunities so that they're prepared
to step in those positions. You know, I think HBCUs
(36:33):
have always been strong. Just like you said, Morgan, I
don't think you know we have to do anything different
or special to showcase who we are. I think that
we have to continue to market and make it available
for our students to see our schools as their first
entry of a higher end and they can go every
wherever they else they want to go, but see us
as your first opportunity to get a degree. There's something
(36:56):
special and unique about the culture and the community one
on one. You know, presidents know your name, Deans know
your name. You're not just a number. You're really a
special part of them making sure that you graduate from
their institutions and that you give back in return like
we should to all of our institutions. So I would
just say, HBCUs, it's a heart and soul of mind.
(37:18):
It's a community where diversity, equity, and inclusion exists every
single day, and we have the opportunity to expand on
that in a very different way. On the diversity that
we do have at our institutions, from international, from state
to state, from Southerners West coasters. I mean, I think
people forget just because we're black college, we still have diversity,
(37:38):
and so you know, don't ever assume that we don't,
because we do, and we provide opportunities in the same
way that our other institutions do. It's just a different
culture that is exciting and fun, and it's to me,
it's black tourism and it's best in our communities. We
provide jobs and opportunity and education. It's awesome. I think, HBCUs,
(37:59):
We're always going to have these up and down moments,
but I think that's higher ed anyways. But the attentions
that our presidents have on our institutions and have the
community's care for our institutions, think we continue to thrive
the way that we do amazing.
Speaker 12 (38:14):
If I may put the spotlight back on you, as
a black woman who's made history in this role, what
are your thoughts on the representation of black women in sports?
Of course another interest that we've seen a surgeons in
for example like the Angel Reeses and the Caitlin clarks Well.
Of course Caitland is not black, but just women's sports overall.
Speaker 7 (38:33):
What are your thoughts, Yeah, I think, you know, on
the sports side and the participation, we're seeing young girls
having more access and opportunity to participate through club sports,
through high school sports. I think that's important. And then
for them to see themselves in the collegiate level or
the Olympic level or the professional level is even greater.
(38:54):
I think women have always dominated and done well in sports,
whether it's soccer or basketball or volleyball. But I think
the efforts of leadership, I'm just kidding, Yeah, leadership have
opened up doors on marketing resources that give more exposure
to these women so their stories can be told. That's
(39:16):
why the Caitlyn Kark's and the Angel Reeses. I mean,
there's some bad players before them, you know, that didn't
get that same exposure. But we're still playing the game
and doing very well. And so I think we're just
in a height of a situation where the exposure and
the opportunity and there's accountability with leadership to see that
you need to balance and equalize the opportunities that you're
(39:37):
giving women then.
Speaker 11 (39:39):
Like you do with men.
Speaker 7 (39:40):
And even HBCUs, you know, we have those constant conversations
about even our television rights. You know, we're with HBCU GO,
but we televise all of our sports with HBCU GO.
We try to give opportunity to our softball program, our
volleyball program, our men's and women's program, our ESPN deal
televises all games. We hire women to do commentating for
(40:03):
our games. So I think as leaders we have the
responsibility to make sure that the equity and the opportunities
they may not always be the same as men, but
we shouldn't close the door because we're women.
Speaker 12 (40:17):
Speaking of equity and opportunity, let's talk in il name,
image and likeness, which is a new market. It's a
whole it's a whole new thing. We're still learning to
navigate it. But let's talk nil deals and competitive market.
Do you feel like there is a competitive market for
HBCU student athletes in comparison to those who may be
(40:37):
at a PWI.
Speaker 7 (40:41):
You know that's tricky. I would say it's no, it's different.
I mean, I think just think about them, Just think
about the competitive market we have our scholarships with about
pwis right, I mean, if you just keep it real,
do we want to be competitive and be able to
recruit students and give them nil deals and all the
app Absolutely, But I think what's important that you know,
(41:03):
we all remember that HBCS wasn't established for athletic participation
in the first place. It was to give us an
opportunity to get an education when nobody else wouldn't do
rpwys talk about, and so the access to education is
critically important to our leadership at our schools, and then
sport is the ancillary. We're not going to put a
(41:23):
lot of focus on trying to pay kids to come
to our institutions. Either you want to come.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
Or you don't.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
When you come, we're going to give you the greatest
experience if you can get an NLI. It's our job
to make sure we educate you what that NIL means,
what the boundaries are, what the rules are around that.
But I know in Division two that's not a major
focus for us, not that we want to limit those opportunities.
They're just not the same as some of our larger
schools that have those access and alumni and boards that
(41:51):
you know, are able to provide some of that funding
to support and television rights that are allowed to support
some of that funding that Division one has. But in
Division two, I think we are truly a life of
a balance. In college athletics, I think our kids, you know,
they are creative. They've always been creative prior to our
in our in i L Division two supported NIL way
(42:12):
before it even became a national you know, visibility of
paying students or giving them opportunities to do things based
on their talent. And so I think in Division two
and our HBCUs and our Division one, I think we
try to keep priority of who we are and what
we are responsible to do when these young people come
(42:33):
to our schools, not limiting them the opportunity, but just
understanding the reality of what those opportunities are.
Speaker 12 (42:40):
Absolutely, and no look, no strade, no ta talk about it. Hey,
you got to understand what you're getting yourself into.
Speaker 7 (42:47):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 12 (42:48):
CIAA Commissioner Jackie McWilliams Parker is joining me right now
on the Black Information Network. Talk to me about what
your vision is for the future and hope for the
ci double A in the years to come.
Speaker 7 (42:59):
Yeah, you know, when I first got into the conference,
it was always about you know, we were like grinding,
just trying to get short term stability. It's always been
long term stability. If I left today, Morgan, I would
like to think that I let the conference better than
I came in, That the conference financial and economic situation
(43:19):
is much better than when I came in, and that
the resources that we have will provide our student athletes
the best opportunities and leadership opportunities, community impact opportunities, and
that we can share our stories in our you know,
in our legacy, like our resources are important because if
we don't have the resources longevity, then we don't get
(43:40):
to have the best championships for these student athletes, the
best gifts that they deserve. We can't provide the leadership
programs and bring them to the tournament for four or
five days and let them be around some of the
best entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs in the DMV area or within our sponsors.
And so I think as critical as we're going through
our strategic plan now we're talking about what do we
(44:01):
want the conference to be. We're going to have flag
football coming up here the spring as an innermural, hopefully
to add it as a full time sport for our conference.
Hopefully there's growth with the NCAA has been tracking on
it to become an NCAA championship. I mean, that's exciting.
We're creating more opportunities. We're also creating visibility for sport
that the NFL has been supporting, and so that's on
(44:24):
our you know, what sports do we need to support
and add to, you know, our list of sports. We
have fourteen in the past, we've had sixteen. I would
love to see baseball and I would love to see
women and men's soccer be a conference championship. I would
love to see men's tennis come back. But I think
those are just constant conversations we have with the board
because resources are real and they're tight, right, So you've
(44:46):
got to prioritize what's best. So we'll continue Morgan to
look at our sports sponsorship and how to provide access,
but you need revenue to do that and stabilizing our partners,
finding partners and categories that can help grow our scholarship base,
to give back to our schools, making sure that we
are putting out great bids that we can go to
(45:06):
great cities and hosts like we have been in Baltimore
and in the past and Charlotte to really support the
efforts of what we're doing in higher end but bringing
that all together in community for intercollegiate sports, like sports
is like the center of everything, right, and so we
have the opportunity in the SEEI double A to bring
all pieces of the puzzle, from the marketing to the sponsorships,
(45:27):
to the revenue, to the economic impact to the basketball
to the volleyball, whatever that is, community samaritance fee, giving
out shoes. I mean, CI double A can do that.
And I'm excited about continuing to look at how we
can build you know, who we are as a conference
and how we give that exposure so that more students
(45:47):
want to come to the thirteam member institutions that we
have and be a part of this amazing experience in history.
Speaker 12 (45:53):
Absolutely, and then before I let you go, let's talk
about the tournament, which you know is such a vibe
if you've never been, Oh my goodness, like, what are
you doing?
Speaker 7 (46:03):
Talk to me.
Speaker 12 (46:04):
About the CIAA Tournament twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7 (46:06):
What can we look forward to? Yeah, February twenty fifth
through March first. I mean, it truly is a week
of an experience. I'm really excited because this is our
fiftieth anyiversary for women's basketball. We celebrated seventy five years
of the tournament, which was really predicated to the men's
but we included our women in that seventy five years.
But this year we'll be focused. Our logo is based
(46:28):
on fifty years. All the implementations and activities surrounding. What
you're seeing in our social media is showcasing all the
MVPs over the last fifty years, the teams that have won.
You know, if you don't know, there's three three HBCUs
women's teams that have won the national championship. Virginia Union
(46:50):
was the first, Hampton University, which I played on the
team in nineteen eighty eight, and then Shaw University. There's
no other HBCU in the country that has won a
national championship in an HBCU. Now, remember Cheney did play
in the first Division one NCAA Division one women, so
we will never will always highlight that that's Vivian Stringer
(47:14):
in that historical moment. But to actually win a national championship,
these three women teams have done it, and so we
get to celebrate that. We get to highlight our women
at our Hall of Fame. Peggy Davis, who passed away
recently before the holidays at Virginia State University. She will
win our highest award, Jimmy Jenkins Legacy Award, which is
(47:37):
named after the former president at Livingstone College, which she
will also be inducted into our.
Speaker 6 (47:42):
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 7 (47:43):
And that's just one woman at a several other that
are in other sports that we get to celebrate during
this tournament. We have shirts that will be giving out.
It's a week of at seat double a experience, and
like you said, there's something for everyone, from the FanFest
to day parties, to step shows to education Day, middle
school Day. But mostly I want people to know that
(48:05):
I want them to get their tickets because we need
to pack this arena and celebrate the student athletes because
that's why we're there and all the other stuff. We're
gonna party and eat food, but what's really important is
that we celebrate our student athletes and let them know
their work is noticed and we're here to support them,
and then we're going to have a good time after
we watched some great games. I love that. I absolutely
(48:27):
love that.
Speaker 12 (48:27):
Thank you so much for joining me, Commissioner Jackie, I
appreciate you.
Speaker 7 (48:31):
For being here. Oh, thank you. Such a pleasure.
Speaker 12 (48:34):
All right, And.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Doug Davis is back to finish up his conversation with
DEI consultant Dante King, who's ties with the University of California,
San Francisco were severed before speaking to a group of
medical students about anti racism. The conversation will most likely
morph into a discussion about Trump, DEI, and the future
of affirmative action in America.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
Doug.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Hey, Thanks Mike. This is Doug Davis, continuing our conversation
with DEI, consultant and author of a soon to be
released book entitled Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness Dante King.
King was recently canceled from hosting an anti racism class
for medical staff at the University of California, San Francisco
after controversial statements he made last year at a campus
(49:18):
black history event. And he's here with us to discuss
President ELEC. Trump, racism and DEI. Dante, Welcome back to
the bi in King. Before we move on, do you
ever think that one day whites and blacks can find
success together in this country? You know, sometimes I think
implicit bias, they're blinders. They keep people from seeing the
(49:39):
reality because of the conditioning of whatever they've experienced in
their life. I just want to share a quick story.
Speaker 6 (49:45):
I remember not.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Long ago, a publicist who is white contacted me about
an interview with a high level black educator, and so
we did the interview and it was about systemic racism
and education. So the white publicist stayed on the call
when we did the interview, and afterwards she called back
and she said Doug, I didn't know, I said, you
(50:10):
didn't know? What she was like, I didn't know that's
what black people have been going through. I'm like, what
do you mean you didn't know. You can't see it,
look at the disparity. She couldn't see it, but she
saw it and it changed her life. And so we
continue to talk regularly when she has guests and stuff,
and you know, we share perspectives, and I believe that
(50:32):
one day, if we could really just have a great conversation,
we can solve racism.
Speaker 11 (50:38):
Your thoughts, I want to say, though, to your point,
That's what Martin Luther King thought at one point, and
toward the end of his life he says, no, we're
dealing with people who are immoral at the core when
it comes to the issue of race and racism. And
that's what doctor Bobby Wright was saying. He's saying, you know,
if you study the history of whiteness and its evolution,
(51:00):
what my work looks at, in a somewhat of a
forensic analysis, that these people are being programmed to be
psychopathic in relationship to black people. And James Baldwin he
even said, you know in nineteen seventy nine that we're
dealing with moral monsters, moral monsters, and I think the machine,
(51:20):
the way that America functions, it uses racism and division
in the affirmative It's part of the value structure, and
so it will not allow human beings to access our
full humanity to be in those relationships that you are suggesting.
The other thing I want to say is this whole
Dei conversation is the result of white people not seeing
(51:41):
themselves as a part of the Dei equation. And I
think when we have any of these discussions and we
make that mistake, we leave white people out of the
Dei process, and we forget to highlight or we don't
highlight that white America functions off of systems and processes
of white affirmative action and white sponsorship. That all of
(52:03):
American institutions based on whiteness as the predicate for citizenship,
set the basy for white institutions to prioritize white people
in the white community, and that has continue to be
the reality since the founding of this country. And so
we need to talk about white affirmative action in white
(52:23):
sponsorship and add that to the Dei conversation.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Let's roll over to Trump when he gets a new office,
opinions on DEI will be sharply divided. Supporters are deeply
concerned about the potential rollback of initiatives that promote diversity
and inclusion in workplaces and institutions, fear that their progress
made in recent years could be undone, leading to a
less inclusive environment for marginalized communities. On the other hand,
(52:49):
critics of DEI, including some conservative groups, argue that these
initiatives are unnecessary and even divisive. How would you describe
your overall perspective on the Trump administration's policies and actions
as he gets ready to come into office.
Speaker 11 (53:04):
So, I think white people overall, including Donald Trump, believe
that they are the only people that should be deserving
of opportunities. I think one aspect of their belief system
is that, and this has been expressed openly pretty recently
by a number of people, that they they're founders, people
who were white, white men started this country, that they
(53:25):
did not intend to give it away. That's number one.
I think number two, we're dealing with people who, no
matter what they do, no matter how inadequate they are,
no matter how mediocre or insufficient they are, they believe
themselves to be supreme. Case in point, there's someone right now,
the guy Pete Hegseth, who was nominated by Donald Trump
(53:47):
to lead the Defense Department.
Speaker 6 (53:49):
He is.
Speaker 11 (53:52):
Wholly inadequate and unqualified for that job. And yet there
is no sense of how should we have should I
have made this decision? We have made this decision to
set this person forward.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
Right.
Speaker 11 (54:05):
But you can have someone like a Kamala Harris, who
is the most qualified person who's ever run for president
in the history of this country, serving in all three
branches of government, legislative, executive, and judicial, and she'd be
questioned about her qualifications, her capabilities, whether she's competent enough,
and then you hear white men. We saw during the
(54:27):
campaign season a number of white men suggesting that she's
a dei president. Right, And so we have to understand
that we're dealing with people who are pathological in nature.
My newest book, Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness, White psycho Pathology,
collective psycho collective psychosis, and Trauma in America, we have
(54:49):
to understand we are dealing with people who are mentally sick,
who have been programmed to believe that they are the
best of the best, no matter if they are the
worst of the worst.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
S all white people or just a majority, or.
Speaker 11 (55:05):
In my work and especially over the last I would say,
you know, ten to fifteen years doing workshops and talking
to white people, I've become to understand that what I
am saying to you is kind of an inherent constant
(55:26):
or belief amongst at least every white person that I
have met, because most of them, in the right environment,
with the right level of safety, garnered in the right
type of confidentiality, most of them will admit or all
of them in my experience, have admitted in some form
(55:47):
of what I am saying that they are not used
to holding themselves or holding each other accountable for being
mediocre or for being inadequate.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
What are your thoughts on how how black professionals should
prepare themselves for the Trump administration.
Speaker 11 (56:05):
It's interesting I called those people. I see those people
as having what I call free black people syndrome. The
one one remark I always pretty make pretty often is
that there have always been free black people in America's
during the through the colonial period into the founding of
the United States, and I believe a faction of those
(56:27):
people saw themselves as being much better than the status
of most Black people who were enslaved, because those enslaved
people represented the bottom of the bottom class and those
free black people represented a different class. And you know,
I think w EV De Boys talks about this a
little bit in his book Black Reconstruction in America, or
(56:48):
there's some suggestions suggestions around this that you know, those
people function differently. They're not in touch with the priorities
or the challenges or the canncerned of black people who
are severely disenfranchised, and so those individuals see themselves as
(57:09):
being special. I used to be one of them, and
so you think you've worked really hard, you're the only
one in the room, and you think that represents something
of value to you when it really doesn't. And it
can be hard many times to function to be the
only one. But some people wear it as a badge
of honor and they value tokenism. They value being the token,
the special black person that was selected to do this job.
(57:32):
So we have to see what then shakes out and
what becomes of black corporate professionals. I think though that
one and I know this is off topic, but a
bit of a side note. It's so interesting to see
how many black people supported Donald Trump through the campaign period,
but also now the lack or the absence of black
people who have been recommended for cabinet positions in his administration.
(57:57):
I think that is very jarring and eye opening.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Agreed, Dante. Before you get out of here, if you
can just share your contact information how folks listening can
get in contact with you if they need to. And
also let's talk about your book and where people can
buy it.
Speaker 11 (58:11):
Certainly, please go to Dante King dot com and subscribe
to my website. That's again Dante King dot com. You
can also follow me on Instagram That's Dante d King Official.
I'm on Facebook, I'm just Dante King Official without the
dep I'm also on TikTok and I'm on Twitter Dante
King twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (58:30):
My book, the new book.
Speaker 11 (58:32):
Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness, will be out on February third.
But if you go to Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness
dot com, there's a ten part episodic docuseriies that I
filmed with a group of former students, friends and colleagues
to discuss some of the themes in my book. It's
ten episodes, so each episode is priced at nine dollars
(58:53):
and ninety nine cents, and then the I think the
full ten episodes is priced at around ninety dollars, so
please go and check it out. And then I look
forward to engaging more about with you, Doug, and about
my book too.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
Absolutely we'll be hearing more from you in twenty twenty
five and beyond. Trust me. This is Doug Davis from
the Black Perspective right here on the Black Information Network.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Thanks Doug, and that's our program for this week. For
more on these stories, listen to the Black Information Network
on the free iHeartRadio app or log onto bionnews dot
com for all of the latest news impacting the black community. Also,
be sure to follow us on social media at Black
Information Network and on blue Sky at black Info Net.
(59:32):
I'm Mike Island, wishing everyone a great Sunday and happy
Martin Luther King Junior Day. Be sure to tune in
next week at this time for another edition of The
Black Perspective right here on the Black Information Network
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com