The Black Perspective: November 23, 2025

This week on The Black Perspective, we bring you a powerful lineup of conversations and insights.

Katie Gray talks with former NBA All-Star Terry Cummings about his second act — leading people through his faith and purpose after basketball.

BIN's Esther Dillard sits down with representatives from SPARK NJ, the nonprofit providing seed funding to grassroots organizations doing life-changing community work.

Morgyn Wood speaks with Dr. Okey K. Enyia about health, equity, policy, and the future of Black men and boys in America.

Misty Jordan interviews Detroit’s newly elected mayor, Mary Sheffield, exploring her political journey and vision for the future.

And Doug Davis brings together Dr. Orpheus Williams, Program Director of the “Black Men in Education Convening,” and educator/author Dante King to discuss the ongoing fight against anti-Blackness and the work of nurturing Black excellence in education and community.

Listen now! 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Sunday, November twenty third, and on today's show, Katie
Gray talks to former NBA player Terry Cummings about his
second career path leading people with his faith. The Black
Information Networks Ester Dillar talks with Spark n Jay, the
nonprofit giving seed money to community groups doing life changing works.
Morgan Wood speaks with doctor oka Enya about health equity

(00:22):
and the future of policy for Black men and boys
in part two of their conversation, Mister Jordan talks to
New Detroit Mayor elect Mary Sheffield for a candid conversation
about her political history and her future plans as mayor.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
And Doug Davis.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Speaks with doctor Orpheus Williams, program director of Black Men
in Education Convening and Dante King, educator and author of
the book Anti Blackness. These stories and more are coming
your way on today's program, Welcome to the Black Perspective.
I'm your host, Mike Island.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Welcome to the Black Perspective, a weekly community affairs program
on the Black Information Network featuring interviews and discussions on
issues important to the Black community.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Good Sunday and Welcome to the Black Perspective. A former
NBA player uses his retirement to lead others on a
path of faith. In Georgia. Katie Gray talks with Terry
Cummings about his church in Conyers.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Let's go in chronological order. As I mentioned your name,
and even when I go google you, the first thing
that obviously comes up is your NBA career. So I'm
obviously I would love to kind of hear some of
your first hand from that, I mean retiring, you know
that being part of like a foundation for you, and
then how that kind of transitioned to more of your

(01:37):
spiritual journey that you've had.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
I've actually I would have to actually start further back
than that, because I've been in ministry since I was
sixteen seventeen years old, and I was called to ministry
as a teenager when it was not truly the end
thing to do or to be called, at a time

(02:02):
where church in religion was a whole lot harsher than
it is now. People think it's harsh now, but it
was really harsh back then because a lot of it
was based on what you couldn't do, And it's almost
as though they didn't tell us what we could do,
because they were busy telling us what we couldn't do.
And I came up in the old Congregational Church of

(02:24):
God in Christ, which is a Pentecostal branch of the
Church itself denominationally, and I was just trained and taught,
you know, a lot of ways and a lot of things,
and I guess the best way to do it. It
started just, you know, between my freshman in my sophomore
year in high school, I grew from five eight to

(02:47):
six four over the summer, and there was a huge
amount of growth and a huge amount of pain. And
I didn't know what it was because no one in
my family was really growing at that rate. And I
wound up being that present height I am now by
the time I was a senior, which is six y nine.
But I mean everything just kind of culminated with a

(03:07):
summer I spent in him in Indiana with my grandparents,
you know, and coming to know the Lord and coming
into that spiritual side of things. When I was a
street kid who was more likely and did carry a
gun in one pocket and a knife and the other
because you know, it was dangerous in our neighborhood in Chicago,

(03:28):
and you always wanted to be prepared to protect yourself
and this thing changed my whole life because I went
from and didn't get to play my freshman or sophomore
year in high school. I played two years of high
school ball, my junior and senior year, and then I
signed on scholarship wise with De Paul University in ray

(03:49):
Meyer and played there for three years. And then I
went for and I'm moving quickly because I know you
got the questions you might want to ask. But I
went from there and played eighteen years in the NBA.
I was the Rookie of the Year my first year
in the NBA in eighty two eighty three. And for me,

(04:10):
the joy of the you know, looking back at it now,
is all the things I accomplished that have nothing to
do with basketball, but everything to do with helping change
people's lives. You know. I worked with a lot of
charities in almost every city, if not every city I
went to. In Milwaukee, I worked with the Soul Journal,
Truth House or Home, which is a home for better women.

(04:33):
When I got to San Antonio, I worked with Saint
Pj's which is a home for children, and then also
Sam Cannot the Sam Shelter, which is a home for
mothers and their children. And then we since I do music.
We did a Christmas song one year, and we took
the proceeds of which Dillard's, the department store, bought about

(04:58):
five thousand units, and we took the money from that
and from what we did in sales outside of that,
and we built a playground on the Sound, shelter grounds,
and we were doing all these things, you know, not
for people to talk about them. I mean, i'd say
we because you know, use some of the other athletes
on the song. But ultimately it was you know, me

(05:22):
and the company just pushing out and getting into these
cities and getting getting to work. And my motto is
really simple about me. You can talk all the stuff
you want to talk, just you know, leave me alone
and let me do the work. I just want to
do the work, you know. I want to be found
being that guy. And I don't come from a family

(05:43):
of money. They're seven boys, six girls in my family
when it started, you know, and three of the girls
have gone on and passed on to UH to the Lord.
But all I've known is work. I've been working since
I was eight or nine years old. Because that wouldn't
give us any money. He told U's gonna make your own,
you know. So work has been the thing that I

(06:08):
know works for me is that I go and do it,
and I know I'm not doing it for any personal glory.
I know that I do it for who I represent spirit, soul,
and body, which is my Lord and my Savior, Jesus Christ.
So that's and that's not to make all this spiritual.
I couldn't tell my story without telling that part though,

(06:29):
you know, because that has been the part that brought
me to the forefront of things, even beyond all of
the spiritual things. Being able to work in a secular
atmosphere with people who don't even care about one another,
who don't care about God or church or living a
certain kind of way. And it's good because it's like,

(06:51):
I don't think we should be put into these immaculate
places where everything is perfect. I think we should be
in imperfect places because we're perfect people. And I think
we should learn as we're in those places. Okay, we'll
cut off.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Now, well, and well, it's just I feel like there's
so many components that I'm curious about on the connection
because it sounds like obviously even as a child and
then throughout your adolescence spirituality.

Speaker 6 (07:22):
Was always very close to you. The Lord was always
very close to you.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
But you know, I am curious over you know, also
coming from more of your background, you know, the level
of some of the some of the elements of growing
up in Chicago. Did going into the NBA, going into
more athletics, did that kind of give you more opportunity
and expansion when it came to your horizons and being
able to reach out more and serve different communities.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
Yeah? Did it gave me the platform too. I actually,
at the end of my sophomore year in college, I
almost quit college because I was frustrated with how things
were going on the collegiate level, and I was heavy
into campus ministry. On the Jesuit campus that we were
on at DePaul University, I was running campus ministry and

(08:11):
had pretty much got it in my head that I'm
just gonna stop everything I'm doing and I'm gonna do
full time ministry. And fortunately for me, you know, the
coach Ray Meyer that I played for put Messideny just
talking to me, told me, you can do what you
want to do, but don't you think that you could
have a bigger platform for what you want to do
if you stay in college and you play. And I

(08:35):
think the frustrating part was I knew I have never
been short of confidence. I've never been cocky, but I
always knew who I was. And the first couple of
years I played at DePaul, I just felt like I
was being underused. But they told me when I came
in there was a guy there, Marcoguire, that said, it
doesn't matter how good you are, this is his team,

(08:56):
so you have to wait. It was a life lesson
I had learned in high school when I had had
that growth spurt and I came to Carver High School
and as a sophomore and I thought I was going
to play. The coach told me said, no, you're not
playing in front of my juniors and seniors. You just
got here. And so it was a life lesson for

(09:17):
me that when I got to DePaul and heard those
words from coach Meyer about it's Mark's team and you
have to wait your turn. I was patient enough to
wait because in my junior year it turned over to
me and I had an outstanding junior year that led
into being the number two pick in the overall draft

(09:37):
the following year in the NBA. So those life lessons
they still linger with me. I think about it all
the time that some of us are old fashioned enough
to believe that people should earn the right to be
who they are, you know, just give it to them.

Speaker 6 (09:52):
Can you expand on that? What does that mean?

Speaker 5 (09:55):
Well, the whole idea and concept behind what happened in
high school and college with to different coaches Horace Howard
at Carver High School in Chicago and Raymired DePaul University.
The whole thing behind it was you have to wait
your turn that no matter how good you are, there
are people paid the cost before you got there, and

(10:17):
they have a right to that position, no matter how
good you are. So I had to learn to be
patient and to be a role player and be happy
in my role. And there's a scriptural reference for it
that I utilize all the time in ministry, and it
is the godly contentment. But the scripture talks about how

(10:39):
when you learn to be content with your circumstances, it
turns out to be a blessing for you. And you
can't be content if you're not content with yourself first.
I mean, you got a really the Scripture's godliness with
contentment is great gain you know. So when you're living
a life that you believe is the right way to go,

(11:00):
the right path, and you learn contentment within that path
because there's going to always be things in front of you.
You look at it and you say, I should be
doing that, But it's not your turn and it's not
your time, you know. And life is a great teacher.
If you will not learn on your own, it will
teach you the hard way. That's what I meant.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
It sounds like it's interesting that there was always this
component where you kind of knew what you gravitated to,
and as you mentioned, you really knew who you were
at your core throughout your adolescence, throughout your impressive career.
But it is interesting to you, even at those different
pinnacle points in your life, did you know that it

(11:42):
was going to lead you in a path that where
you are now.

Speaker 7 (11:46):
No.

Speaker 5 (11:47):
I had no dreams of being an NBA player. I
didn't know I could go to college. No one in
the family at the time had been to college. I
didn't even know how the process worked. My mother and
father were not active and me going to college because
they didn't know what to do either. Mom was probably

(12:09):
had a couple of years of high school education, and
Dad didn't have an eighth grade education, and they but
they were two of the smartest and wisest people I
have ever known in my life, you know. But I don't.
I thought I was going to the military or be
a policeman or something that because I always was a protector.

(12:31):
I've always been a protector, you know, And so I
thought that that was where I would go. But then
I started growing, and I started getting around cats that
were balling all the time, and I started playing hockey
and baseball first. And then when I had the growth spurt,
I grew out of a hockey and baseball. I just

(12:52):
I still played. I was playing baseball even while I
was in the league. I would play weekend tournaments in
Texas down I think in Victoria, Texas, where they would
have these softball tournaments. I'd go down there and play.
Take my kids and we go down there in RV
and and stayed the whole weekend and play play baseball.
You know. But my heart, once I started learning the

(13:16):
game of basketball and the lessons that came with it,
it changed everything for me because it wasn't just about
basketball was life.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
You felt like the rules of basketball played more into
life lessons than any other game that you played.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
Yeah, I think more than the rules. It was the principles.
And the principles to me were different from the rules
and that they were normally set by the coaches and
the players for themselves. It were things that you had
to you had to honor and respect to get honor

(13:54):
and respect. Those were principles that were taught us. Like
one of them was, no matter how good you are,
you don't speak for yourself. You let what you do
speak for you. A life lesson. A generation now that
we live in they do all the talking they're the
greatest thing in the world, you know, because they're saying

(14:17):
that they are. But my generation, we were talked not
to go out lift and exalt ourselves, but to let
how we work and what we do as the productivity
of it speak for us. And I remember, as a
rookie in the NBA, one of the veterans, one the
old heads, pulled me aside because they were printing up

(14:39):
all this stuff about me coming into the league. And
I came into the league on the bang. I was
playing from Jump Street, you know, just putting up numbers,
and one of the old heads told me. He said,
he said, t see, he said, he said, you will
never have a problem in the business of what we
do until you start believing what people write about. Don't

(15:00):
you in it? And for years I stopped reading the newspaper.
I wouldn't read the sports sess, you know, because I
figured it at the end of the game, because I
remember he used to get so frustrated because I could
have a great game and only think about it at
the end of the game, the one or two bad
things that I didn't get right. And I had to

(15:21):
learn a lesson from that that when the game is over,
the game is over. You cannot add or take away
from your performance. So when that game is over, take
your buying home to your family and become fam be
the family man, and leave basketball that where it's supposed
to be. Leave your work at work.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
This is something I probably definitely heard from a movie.
But is it fair to say, you know, you have
to leave it all on the court, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (15:47):
You do.

Speaker 5 (15:48):
And the guys that can't do that, they wind up
in really bad scenarios, you know, alcohol, drugs, you know,
caught up in the money game because there's a lot
of money. There was even in our time, there was
a lot of money for our generation. It's not the
same as this generation, but you can get caught up

(16:08):
in a lot of stuff because you know, one of
the things I did find out about professional athletes in particular,
is they are some of the most intense people I
have ever met my life. And that intensity, if it
is not balance, will lead you to areas where you
will desecrate your temple, and by doing so, it derails

(16:31):
you from the success you could have in your life.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Thanks Katie and Terry. Part two is coming up in
two weeks, where Cummings opens up more about his time
in the NBA and how his faith inspired him to give.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
Back through community service.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Up next, the Black Information Networks Ester Dillard talks with
Spark NJA, the nonprofit giving seed money to community groups
doing life changing work. One of them is an organization
offering critical support to women grieving the loss of a
child during pregnancy.

Speaker 8 (17:00):
The last session I attended, I remember a woman came
and she had lost her child thirteen years ago, and
she said she still felt like it was the day
she lost her child. And while I wasn't judging her,
I just said, this cannot be my life. Like I
can't stay in this dark like black hole.

Speaker 9 (17:17):
In this edition of The Color Between the Lines, we're
highlighting a new Jersey based initiative that's changing how small,
black lead nonprofits receive support. It's called Spark and Jay,
a trust based grant making organization that removes the paperwork
and red tape, giving community leaders the freedom to focus
on what truly matters helping people. One of sparkan Jay's coordinators,

(17:39):
Greemer Harris, connects the foundation with organizations that are making
a real difference on the ground. Among those is Bunne Foster,
founder of Life After Two Losses, a nonprofit born from
personal heartbreak and transformed into a mission to help families
coping with grief and pregnancy loss. Vu Anne shares how
her pain became purpose and why her message of hope

(18:02):
continues to uplift so many.

Speaker 10 (18:04):
The impetus of trust based philanthropy is to share power
or share power and privilege pretty much between both the
donors and the organizations receiving the money. So with traditional
philanthropy or giving efforts, usually donors or those contributing funding
have to say so and how the money will be used.

Speaker 11 (18:26):
The process for Spark in J is.

Speaker 10 (18:30):
The use of nominators who have experience with these smaller
nonprofit organizations and can speak to the validity of their work,
can speak to the impact that their services have had
on the community, and they bring back those nominations for
these organizations so that they're eligible for the grand So
there's a few different roles within Spark and J. So

(18:51):
we have the nominators who are the boots on the
ground folks who go out get the information and bring
it back. We have the donors who personally provide the
money or the grants for these organizations. All of our
funding is through personal donorship. We don't have any federal
funds as far as donations are concerned, and we have

(19:12):
one sponsor, norse Cap, which is another nonprofit organization who
works in partners with us as well.

Speaker 11 (19:20):
But the donors are all All of the funding is
privately provided.

Speaker 10 (19:25):
So we have the donors, we have the nominators, and
then we also have a group of selectors who go
through the actual nominations and do a deep dive into
the background and history of the organizations. They search the
websites of the organizations. Sometimes they speak and call and
speak with the CEOs and leaders of the organizations to

(19:45):
gain more insight, and then they determine which organization will
actually receive the grant and at which amount they would
receive the grant.

Speaker 9 (19:52):
Well, I know we're gonna hear more about life after
two losses, but I know that you've probably seen a
number of people of and organizations that have been nominated
and been vetted and talked about. What are some of
the Can you talk a little bit about some of
the other organizations that have been up for awards or

(20:15):
have won awards that really stood out for you?

Speaker 11 (20:18):
Sure?

Speaker 10 (20:18):
So there were We've there's been a total of over
fifty organizations who received grants from SPARK and j some
being organizations that provide services for those impacted by food
and security, some impacted families, impacted families, and communities impacted
by autism. We have one that provides services to seniors

(20:43):
and that population or demographic of people, so that the.

Speaker 11 (20:47):
Service provisions vary.

Speaker 10 (20:50):
What's interesting about the organizations that we provide grants to
is that a number of them were births from lived experience,
such as Vu Wayn, who had an experience that prompted
her to feel a need for a group of people
who weren't previously provided services for So I think that
speaks volumes in terms of the impact that these services

(21:11):
are having with our community members.

Speaker 6 (21:15):
Well, I'm going to turn now to voo Anne.

Speaker 9 (21:17):
I know your organization was really born out of your
personal experience and losing two pregnancies, and how did you
turn I guess that pain into purpose. I'd love it
if you'd share a little bit about your journey and
what pushed you to create this.

Speaker 8 (21:32):
Sure, so what basically started out as Again, I am
in the fields of public health, so I do know
the data, but I did not. I just felt so
alone a lot of times when I was going to
a lot of these spaces for the support groups, they
were mostly dominated by white women, and a lot of
the trauma that happened in my berths there wasn't really

(21:54):
a place to unpack that because I just didn't feel comfortable.
And I also noticed that we just kept reliving our
lost experiences session after session, and for me and for others,
I noticed it was really only fueling the anxiety and
depression and bless you, I'm sorry, thank you. The last

(22:14):
session I attended, I remember a woman came and she
had lost her child thirteen years ago, and she said
she still felt like it was the day she lost
her child. And while I wasn't judging her, I just said,
this cannot be my life, Like I can't stay in
this dark black hole. So I decided to again provide
grief support. But our grief support looks a lot different

(22:38):
in New Jersey, right, because I've again visited a lot
of different support groups, and I felt like there was
a need.

Speaker 11 (22:45):
That needed to be had.

Speaker 8 (22:46):
So we spent a small amount of time reliving our
loss experience and the rest of the time is used
on getting tips and tools on how to get your
life back to a healthy place.

Speaker 12 (22:56):
I felt like that.

Speaker 8 (22:57):
That was more beneficial. There's also a segment where we
came to talk about the trauma that we've experienced.

Speaker 11 (23:03):
Again.

Speaker 8 (23:04):
When I show up, I'm a public health expert. I'm
also a professor at a university. So when I show
up in a professional setting, you know, I'm viewed as
like my credentials, right, But when I show up in
a hospital, I looked at as a young black girl.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Right.

Speaker 8 (23:18):
There are things being thrown out like must have STDs,
must have HIV, right, These are some assumptions and I
say that because in one of the hospitals, the original hospital,
when my water where my water broke and I got
the care and they ended up dismissing me, sending me home.

Speaker 11 (23:35):
I went to a local hospital and.

Speaker 8 (23:37):
Actually a hospital that I worked at, and just for
checkup because I.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Was like thanks Esther and Sparkanja the Black Information That Works.
Morgan Wood spoke with doctor ok Enya, a Washington, d C.
Based government relations executive, public health scholar and author of
the John Henry Health Equity Playbook, A four year Health
policy Agenda for Black Men. The two had an important
conversation about health equity and the future of policy for

(24:02):
black men and boys.

Speaker 13 (24:04):
On the Black Information Network, We're diving into an important
conversation about health equity and the future of policy for
black men and boys. My guest right now is doctor
okay Enya, a Washington, DC based government relations executive, public
health scholar and author of the John Henry Health Equity Playbook,
A four Year Health Policy Agenda for Black Men.

Speaker 7 (24:28):
Now.

Speaker 13 (24:28):
In his book, doctor Enya connects the ballot box, the
bank account, the barbershop, and the doctor's office, laying out
a powerful roadmap of how our communities. Black communities cannot
just survive but thrive. Doctor oka Enya, thank you so
much for being here speaking with us on the Black
Information Network.

Speaker 11 (24:46):
How are you today?

Speaker 7 (24:48):
And Noah, thank you? Yes, thanks for having me.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
I appreciate it absolutely.

Speaker 13 (24:53):
So let's jump into the conversation. What inspired you to
write the John Henry Health Equity Playbook and how does
your own lived experience shape the policy agenda you propose
for improving the health of Black men and boys.

Speaker 14 (25:09):
Yes, it is born out of my lived experience as
well as my professional background as someone who has a
passion for seeing black men and boys thrive. As the
conscious black male who has a background of medicine, public health,
and health policy. I wanted to ensure that the voices

(25:31):
of black men and boys are heard loud and clear
in terms of their health and well being on policy
and research agendas. The personal side of it as well
as that my dad and three of my uncles are
process cancer survivors, and so it was important for me

(25:54):
to bring voice to their work and their lived experience,
and then also think about the long game in terms
of what does a thriving Black men and boys process
experience look like and so I wanted to do a

(26:18):
brain dump of my experiences as someone who works who's
worked on Capitol Hill as a staffer both in the
House and the Senate, and then worked in other ecosystems.
And then also, you know, part of what sparked my
interest in writing this second book was last year when
Kamala Harris had announced the opportunity Jennifer black Men. I

(26:43):
took that as another signal to say, Okay, I need
to be able to create a product that will put
language to the voices of black men and boys. And
so I found that the John Henry metaphor, and actually
there are a few real lifetime Henry's. As I came

(27:05):
to discover, I wanted to use the Henri language as
a metaphor for a variety of challenges issues that black
men encounter. But it's costing our health in our lives.
And so that's just to kind of put that context

(27:26):
out there for that.

Speaker 15 (27:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (27:27):
Absolutely, And thanks for explaining that metaphor and analogy, because
it does appear that you mentioned that a few times.
So your playbook does focus on physical and mental health,
economic stability, and education, and civic engagement, as well as
family stability.

Speaker 11 (27:47):
As well.

Speaker 13 (27:47):
So how do these pillars, you would you say, interact
and why is it essential to address them together rather
than separately?

Speaker 14 (27:58):
Yes, so it is. You know, I look at life
through an integrated lens, and I have found that being
able to connect the dots gets helpful and ensuring that
the messages that you're trying to deliver land well. And
so I use what's called the social drivers of Health
framework to groround the pillars in a way that maps

(28:24):
to different ecosystems. And so the socials of health are
the conditions that impact where we are born, live.

Speaker 7 (28:34):
Work, worship, and age.

Speaker 14 (28:38):
And those factors include education, income, housing, food of security,
tax policy, et cetera. And so I was very intentional
about about selecting at least four or five of those

(28:59):
different divers to ensure that I could connect economics to health,
you know, because our health is our wealth, right, and
how do you connect the ballot box to one's one's
bank account?

Speaker 7 (29:16):
Like there are there there is.

Speaker 14 (29:20):
Actually a connection between UH, a level of engagement in
community and health outcomes. And and what that means even
so is those communities that tend to vote more UH,

(29:41):
they're able to get people into office that have shared
values and as a consequence, you're more likely to see
programming and support and funding that can support health.

Speaker 7 (29:56):
And so you know, yes, I cover.

Speaker 14 (30:00):
I cover physical, mental health, emotional health, economics, housing, scific engagement, education, fatherhood,
because those are part and parcel of critical ways in
which our health is shaped as black people. Definitely, but

(30:21):
definitely black men and boys.

Speaker 13 (30:23):
Yes, yes, absolutely, And you mentioned you know, putting those
people in office, and and you definitely want to have
those in office who will advocate for you know, our health,
Black men, black boys advocate for their health. So several
governors are launching men's health initiatives. How can advocates ensure

(30:48):
that these efforts meaningfully include black men and don't just
become you know, one of those kind of symbolic gestures
or one of those things that's just trending for the moment,
sort of like how these some of these corporations did
with the Black Lives Matter movement or you know, things

(31:08):
like that, and and now they're pulling back that DEI So,
how do you ensure that these advocates that are in
office and make make sure that they are including black
men in in their health initiatives?

Speaker 5 (31:24):
Yes?

Speaker 14 (31:24):
So one key part of it is being intentional about
building relationships and holding people accountable when they get into
office and so, and that's one reason why it is
I frame it as a four year health policy agenda
because it provides.

Speaker 7 (31:46):
Structure and language and data.

Speaker 14 (31:51):
That educates and equips anyone with that content in the
book to be able to reach out to their elected
officials or partner with organizations that also have common interest
and so it's it's it's a shift from the kind

(32:12):
of small wins and the lower hanging fruit, which is
important into the long game. So what is a long
term strategy? How do we create and rally around, you know,
an agenda that is a roadmap for the long term
engagement and so.

Speaker 7 (32:36):
And so, whether.

Speaker 14 (32:36):
It's it's a it's a policy agenda or if it's
four phases, it brings language, content, data and structure to
to an approach to engage with key decision makers at
the local, state, and federal levels. And you know, and
so for me, as I've traveled the country and you know, conferences,

(33:00):
I'm much conventions, podcasts, et cetera, I've found significant gaps
and knowledge about the proximcting process. And I say this
all the time. I say, look like if you're not
at the table, you're on the menu. And you know,
and and I also say that politics will impact you

(33:20):
whether you want or to or not. And so the
extent to which you're able to really find your lane
or your lanes is critically important. And yes, you know,
it can get kind of fatiguing when you're talking.

Speaker 7 (33:32):
About you know, go vote instead.

Speaker 14 (33:34):
But I'm part of my challenge two people is.

Speaker 7 (33:41):
Find the messaging.

Speaker 14 (33:43):
That incorporates the pain points of the community and connect
that's between what's happening at on the local level or
on the ground into how that translates into different laws
being passed. And so for example, like you know, we
get caught up in the every four year cycle of

(34:06):
the president, but there are states lawmakers, You've got mayors,
you got council members, judges, right, So it's actually trying
to provide the language and the context for here is
here is how this issue, if it is trash picked
up right, and you're trying to figure out why is

(34:27):
this trash like not getting picked up? Well, have you
tried to build a relationship with with that local council
member to be able to ask them why does this happening,
and or to open accountable for calling the trash folks
to con pick up the trash. So it's just kind
of being more thoughtful about nothing the pain on the

(34:52):
ground with what's happening in.

Speaker 13 (34:53):
Policy, right right, absolutely, And if you're just joining us,
we're speaking with doctor Okay and you public health scholar
and author of the John Henry Health Equity Playbook. Now
we're unpacking how economic stabilities, civic engagement, and mental and
physical wellness all connect, especially when it's talking about or

(35:14):
in regards to black men and boys and their health. Now,
speaking of which, you know that mental health and masculinity
and least stigma wise do not go hand in hand.
You know that is not something that we see cross
intersect in our community, even though.

Speaker 6 (35:35):
It really truly does.

Speaker 13 (35:37):
Right, So, how can we reframe that stigma, reframe the
conversations around being a man and making sure.

Speaker 6 (35:44):
That you actually have access.

Speaker 13 (35:47):
To mental health resources and just you know, destigmatizing that
in regards to black men and boys.

Speaker 6 (35:55):
What would you say to that, Yes.

Speaker 14 (35:57):
That's a great question. So I use myself as as
an example. I've been seeing a black myn psychologist for
the past several years at least once a month, just
at a minimum, like this is my maintenance, this is
so like so, and and so that's part of how
I normalize seeking help. And but that is born out

(36:18):
of my lived experience of you know, growing up in
a in a home where yes, we know Jesus will
fix it, but there are also therapists who are trained
to give you language in context for what's happening.

Speaker 7 (36:35):
Right, And so I've lived.

Speaker 14 (36:36):
The the depression, the anxiety, the trauma of the confusion,
like I've been there at different points in my life,
but I've now I've gotten to a place where because
I've been I've been blessed to have the community. And
I sell all the time that that you can't be
your best self by yourself.

Speaker 7 (36:57):
It's it's seeking that support.

Speaker 14 (37:00):
And then also for me having an executive coach that
I work with, and so it's talking for me as
a blackmailist. Actually the first step is talking about my
own experience and giving other people the permission to talk
about their own experiences.

Speaker 7 (37:18):
And it's also.

Speaker 14 (37:19):
About being willing to be an advocate and a voice
for the voiceless and ensuring that black men have safe
spaces to talk and just be and like unmasked. And
so it starts with me, for example, being an example

(37:41):
and saying, hey, you know, these are my challenges, but
here are the ways in which I am seeking help
here with some language and some resources that I found helpful.
And yes, there are challenges with access to care and
access to providers who are who are culturally competent, and

(38:02):
and that's an entire other conversation. But part of my
hope inviting this book is to is to put the
data in the hands of those who need this data
to say, Okay, we know that there are some disparities here,
but here are some resources.

Speaker 7 (38:23):
And when you're.

Speaker 14 (38:24):
Able to talk about your own experience, I found that
that gives of people permission to be vulnerable, to be
transparent about their own hearing journey, and that helps to
build the community to a place where others feel comfortable

(38:45):
doing the same.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Thanks Morgan and doctor Enya. Tune in two weeks from
now for the next part of their conversation. For the
first time in more than three hundred years, Detroit elected
a black woman as mayor. May elected Mary Sheffield sat
down with our mister Jordan for a candid conversation about
her political history and her future plans as the mayor.

Speaker 16 (39:06):
Joining the Black Information Network, I have Detroit Mayor Elect,
Miss Mary Sheffield.

Speaker 12 (39:12):
Good morning, good morning.

Speaker 6 (39:15):
It is so great to see you.

Speaker 16 (39:16):
Congratulations, congratulations, congratulations.

Speaker 6 (39:20):
I am beyond happy for you.

Speaker 12 (39:22):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 17 (39:23):
I'm excited about all that is ahead and leading our
great city to the best place that it can be.

Speaker 12 (39:29):
So Detroit has a lot of potential.

Speaker 17 (39:31):
We've been a lot of great work in Detroit, and
now it's time for us to go hire.

Speaker 16 (39:35):
You've had a long list of first in the city
of Detroit. Let's go back a little bit and talk
about some of your history. You became the youngest member
of City Council in twenty fourteen, and then you were
elected the president of City Council, the youngest person to
hold that position. And now you are the first mayor
elect of Detroit, the first woman mayor.

Speaker 6 (39:56):
Elect of Detroit.

Speaker 16 (39:58):
Did young Mary grow up up on the West side
of Detroit see this in her future?

Speaker 17 (40:03):
No, I mean I always loved leadership. I always loved
serving and community and people and and justice organizing because
of the family that I came from. But I never
envisioned serving in public office until I was in my
early twenties, and then once I got elected, I really
loved the ability to change people's life and to really

(40:24):
bring a people focused type of leadership and public office.
I think it was needed, and so I've been honored
to be able to serve for twelve years on the
city Council and now being able to be elevated as
mayor to really ensure that government is working for everyday people.
Detroit has changed a lot, and we're at a point
where Detroit can either grow and exclude people and displace

(40:47):
or it can grow and be a place where we're
inclusive of everyone. And that is the Detroit that I
want to build, a Detroit that works for everyone, really
focusing on building up our neighborhoods, creating good jobs, reducing crime,
suing that housing is affordable for every family here in
our city.

Speaker 6 (41:03):
Talk to me a little bit about election, Tach.

Speaker 16 (41:05):
I saw on Instagram you were going to vote, You
had your family with you, and then when you took
the podium, your father, grandmother with you.

Speaker 6 (41:13):
What was going through your head?

Speaker 15 (41:16):
You know?

Speaker 17 (41:16):
It was just the work that myself, my team that
we put in to reach you know, to achieve the moment,
also all of the women who have paid the way
for me to be here today. In this moment, I
thought about, you know, people who made sacrifices for us
to be here. And then the young the young girls right,
the youth that were looking up to me to aspire

(41:38):
to be what they wanted to be in life. And
so it was a lot flowing through my mind in
that moment. And then also what am I getting into?

Speaker 11 (41:44):
Right?

Speaker 12 (41:44):
I mean I won?

Speaker 17 (41:45):
Now, so now the work really begins, because winning was
seventy seven percent of the vote, really was a mandate,
you know, it was a clear indication that your trait
wants me to lead. And so now it's about, yeah,
we made history. Yes I'm the first, but now it's
like I have to execute and deliver for the residents
of our city. So I felt a huge weight of

(42:06):
responsibility in that moment as well, but definitely just very
grateful and honored to be elected as the mayor of Detroit.

Speaker 16 (42:15):
So let's talk a little bit about now that we're
moving forward, let's talk about Rise Higher Detroit, your transition initiative.
Talk to me a little bit about what this is about.
What is the idea and where are you going moving forward?

Speaker 17 (42:26):
Yeah, So Rise Higher is the boldest, most inclusive, and
rigorous transformation that we've had in Detroit. As it relates
to our transition period, we are really focusing in on
making sure that this process is people centered, that we're
assembling the best and the brightest for me to take
office day one and have one hundred day actionable items

(42:47):
that my administration can implement.

Speaker 12 (42:49):
So we're really focused on two.

Speaker 17 (42:50):
Things, and as one is attracting and recruiting the best
talent for my cabinet that really aligns with my vision
and my priorities that I've laid out about this campaign.
And then secondly, we just want to make sure that
we have actionable items day one so that when I
step into office, I have things that we can announce
and accomplish immediately. And so we've broken up a transition

(43:13):
into various committees. We have eighteen committees on housing and Infrastructure,
small businesses, public safety, and then those committees are comprised
of experts in those fields that will look at my vision,
they will look at best practices nationally, and they'll bring
their own expertise and then make recommendations to me and
my administration on what we should accomplish within that first

(43:34):
one hundred days. So we're all about action. The Rise
Hired Detroit is really about action. We know that me
coming in as the first woman mayor, there's a lot
of expectations that people are going to have for me,
and I really just want to be able to deliver.
So the Rise Hired Trode transition is about assembling the
best and the briders to ensure that this administration is

(43:54):
prepared day one.

Speaker 16 (43:56):
If you're just joining us, I'm speaking with Detroit Mayor
elect Mary Sheffield. How did you standing up on the podium,
Your father's here, your grandmother's here.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
How did you not get emotional? Mary? Because I was
watching it, I was emotional.

Speaker 17 (44:07):
I got emotional, but I also got emotional a lot
before I came on stage, so I got some of
that out the way a little bit.

Speaker 12 (44:13):
But it was very It was a very.

Speaker 17 (44:15):
Emotional moment, and it's still emotional, to be honest with you,
it still has not all the way.

Speaker 12 (44:20):
I haven't processed right, like I'm the mayor. I think
that takes time.

Speaker 17 (44:24):
And I was talking to the current mayor yesterday and
he said it took him about a year for it
to really like sit with him, like, you know, I'm
running things around here, so I think.

Speaker 12 (44:34):
It's a process.

Speaker 17 (44:35):
And then after I won, I was, you know, right
back to work assembling my team. Eight days after the election,
we announced the Rise Hardy trade transition efforts.

Speaker 12 (44:43):
So we've been working really, really hard.

Speaker 17 (44:46):
But you know, for me, I'm just all about execution
and delivering and inspiring and because so many people believed
in me, now I feel like I have to really
ensure that we are doing what's best for our city.

Speaker 6 (45:00):
So I'll let me tell you this.

Speaker 16 (45:01):
You're may or may I remember, but we were in
Los Angeles and we were at a friend's house, mutual friend,
and I remember, you know, we were all kind of
in a transitional space what's next for us, and we
were all just kind of I don't know, maybe this
may bee this, but I remember you specifically were like service.

Speaker 6 (45:18):
You were kind of tossing around.

Speaker 16 (45:19):
A couple of ideas maybe this, maybe this, but you
were like, but this is what I feel like.

Speaker 6 (45:24):
And that was I don't even know how long I wasn't.

Speaker 15 (45:26):
Married, over twelve eleven, yeah, yeah, yeah, And it was
before you were city council and so now just to
watch this, this was already you know in the stars.

Speaker 11 (45:41):
Yep.

Speaker 17 (45:41):
I do feel that my path was has been ordered
in a lot of ways. It has been a part
of me fulfilling what I believe God has ordained for
my life. But I always say I always believe that
in light of that calling, I always put the work
in as well, right, and so you know, purpose and
hard work.

Speaker 12 (45:59):
No one can now be, you know, so.

Speaker 17 (46:01):
Excited to be here, excited about you know, what we
have in store for Detroit, because Detroit, I think oftentimes
does not get the credit it deserves as being a
world class city among others. And that is my job
is to raise the perception in the reputation of our
city and to grow it.

Speaker 16 (46:19):
Most importantly, detroit As are really authentic people. I worked
in radio there for a little while, and so what
I hear most and what I see most is that
people love your accent from Detroit. They're like, yeah, she's
one of us. Seventy seven percent of the vote certainly
speaks for itself. I feel happy that the city feels
like they're really embracing you because you can see that
and you can feel that, and I think that Detroit

(46:40):
is not a place you can trick people.

Speaker 12 (46:42):
And great, I mean, we love authenticity.

Speaker 17 (46:44):
And I will say one of the things that I
think has resonated with so many people is that people
don't see me as a politician.

Speaker 12 (46:50):
They just see me as Mary.

Speaker 17 (46:52):
I agree you, and that has taken me a long
way in my you know, public service is that I've
always tried to be humble. I've always tried to be accessible,
stay true to who I am, lead the way that
I lead. And I think that has really served me
a lot, because again, people stop me all the time like,
we don't even see you as a politician. We just
see you as married, someone who cares, who has compassion,

(47:12):
who loves community. She's always in the community, she's helping people,
and I think we need more of that in public
office right to inspire people to get involved as well.

Speaker 16 (47:21):
Detroit Mayor Elect Mary Sheffield, you officially take office January first,
and the holiday season is just about here. So what
does the end of twenty twenty five look like for you?
Just before you take office officially?

Speaker 17 (47:34):
Yeah, so we are the transition period will go all
the way up into January one, So my holidays will
primarily be focused on transition work. We have to ensure
that we have my cabinet in order and my administration
selected within the next two or three weeks, so that's
going to take up.

Speaker 12 (47:50):
A lot of my time.

Speaker 17 (47:51):
But outside of that, I'm getting married, so I'll be
newly married going into the top of the year, so
that's going to be like the highlight of my of
my holidays.

Speaker 6 (48:00):
Congratulation Yep, yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.

Speaker 16 (48:05):
I remember we talked about that when we run Alecxus wedding.

Speaker 12 (48:08):
Yep, we did, and I one day. We got to
catch up on you too, girl.

Speaker 16 (48:12):
Yes, congratulations Mary, you are deserving And here's the three
words that.

Speaker 6 (48:18):
I loved most.

Speaker 16 (48:19):
Ready, equipped and prepared, come on, come on yet that
you are are. Congratulations, Thank you, missy, and hopefully I'll
see you soon.

Speaker 12 (48:30):
You got to come and visit Detroit.

Speaker 7 (48:32):
Thank you, missy.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
If you would like to learn more about Detroit Mayor
elected Mary Sheffield's Rise Higher Detroit transition initiative, you can
log onto Rise Higherdetroit dot com.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Doug Davis wraps.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Up his conversation with doctor Orpheus Williams about this weekend's
Black Men and Education convening and how the organization is
providing solutions by equipping black male students the knowledge needed
to enter the profession. And doug speaks with a black
author who spoke at an anti racism global summit held
in South Africa.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Doug Hey, thanks Mike.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Over the past few days, Philadelphia played host to the
Black Men in Education convening a three day summit to
discuss equity in the classroom and one of the most
pressing issues in education, and that's the lack of black
mailed educators. As it stands, less than two percent of
black men are seen in the classroom, and the Black
Men in Convening, powered by brothers like doctor Orpheus Williams,

(49:24):
is changing that narrative, one black male student at a time.
Doctor Williams has agreed to return back to the Black
Information Network. The convening was, of course the great success
Doctor Williams, with hundreds of Black men in education gathering
to discuss the challenges face in black mail representation.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
In the classroom.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Now, we left off Friday on my segment titled BIA
News This Hour talking about how your organization is navigating
the obstacles put in place by President Trump and his
anti diversity agenda, claiming that we are all on a
level playing field, which we all know is not true.
You're surviving through all of this, and you're standing firm

(50:01):
on what your organization is all about. And you also
said that not all groups with similar agendas such as
yours are surviving. Tell us more about that and how
you're encouraging these groups to continue the fight.

Speaker 18 (50:13):
YEP, share with some other folks that, sadly, some of
our sisters and cousin organizations haven't been as as lucky
or or as I guess, clever in trying to navigate
what's happening some of us had. Some of them had
to close down, some of them had to close ranks.
It's another reason why b MAKE is so important, because
collectively we're way stronger than us individually trying to fight

(50:34):
this fight. We're looking for allies in this fight as well,
and I don't think the fight is anywhere near over.
As we can see by the most recent regional elections
and some of the key locations around the country, folks
are of the same mindset. Whether they call themselves a
seller for black education or something progressive or whatnot.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
It's it's it's resistant to the.

Speaker 18 (50:55):
Trend at the federal level that's trying to take over
and our laying here. It's in education, and it's not
going to go any place. We're constantly going to be
fighting for this, and we fight this fight in the
most theoretically hostile of states because the fight is probably
more critical in some of those states than it is
where our name is way more favorable and way more

(51:19):
easily invited.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Into the into the district district decision making for rooms. Right,
let's go back to the event.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
What are some concrete projects and partnerships that came about
from this weekend's event.

Speaker 18 (51:31):
So each year we have about seven seven different strands,
things like STEM and curriculum and leadership policy. This year
we've included sports and entertainment because we realized that entertainment
through social media or sports or anything that's movies and
these things also have a serious influence on how our
students create their perspective of the world. We invited some

(51:52):
speakers from that world. We have Bomani Jones, Lupe Fiasco,
Eton Thomas Wallow to do a sort of fireside chat
around what was their educational experience, how do they see
their role now within their industry, but also impacting the
state of black education, but also the black community period.
And really showing the parallels between someone like a doctor

(52:14):
Fenwick and a Wallow will allow us all to sort
of continue to shed these boundaries between our efforts and
back to what I said earlier, we are a network.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
We are a community.

Speaker 18 (52:24):
Once you come to be Mecca, once you even presented
being made, you are now permanently a part of that community.
You're connected and you always have access to what the
community is trying to move them forward.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
We know the teacher shortage, particularly black teacher shortage, is
felt across the country. What's your advice to young Black
men and women who may be listening right now to
this podcast who are considering the careers in education, particularly
with the pressure again that we spoke about that they face.

Speaker 18 (52:52):
Yeah, I would sell them find a teacher that they strongly,
strongly identify with and admire or had a great experience
in their class. And this is regardless of race, of ethnicity, location.
For our Black children and barn children that listen right now,
find that teacher. Ask that teacher why they got into it,
Ask that teacher what they enjoy most about it, ask

(53:12):
that teacher do they think that they would make a
good teacher and why? And this isn't a binding decision,
this is just an exploration. Yeah, but I think when
they hear from the people that they admire that they
really really had a great experience with, it'll turn a
different perspective on what their possibilities could be as a teacher,
especially that question of do you think I'd make a
good teacher because I had a great time in your class?

Speaker 2 (53:33):
What do you think about my potential?

Speaker 5 (53:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, that's beautiful brother.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
Any final comments and how can people learn more about
the convening and what your organization's all about on social
media and things like that.

Speaker 18 (53:44):
Yep, definitely follow us at hashtag BMEC. To learn more
about the Black Male Educators convenient you can go to
our website. It's CBED dot org, the Center for Black
Educatordevelopment dot org. And guess the final thing I'll say is,
you know, we don't want to have another generation of
students go K twelve without seeing a black teacher. And
part of that effort is to be able to rebuild

(54:05):
our efforts to expand on our website, there's also opportunities
to donate. And this is the type of thing where
sometimes teachers will send us.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Five dollars and that's all that it takes to.

Speaker 18 (54:15):
Build what we're trying to build towards, which is sponsoring
a young teacher to actually go to a training, or
sponsoring someone next year to come to be met that
maybe couldn't afford it because the district didn't allow them
the funds that they did in the past. So if
there's any opportunity for that, I would say, but please
please support us in that way as.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Well, Doctor Williams Man, beautiful work. Brother, Thank you again.
You're welcome on our show anytime. Please if there's any
message you need to get out, man, you know you
got me here, okay, And I wish you the best,
all right, or wish us the best, because brother, we
need you, We need you to, yes, sir, A bout
of the ecosystem, God bless man. Now we're turning our
conversation to what is known in some circles as the

(54:52):
global psychosist of whiteness.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
San Francisco author.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
And educator Dante King, who's latest book titled Anti Blackness,
traces the roots of racial violence worldwide, but the King
recently returned from being the keynote speaker at the Global
Anti Racism Summit in South Africa, and he's here to
join us to share some insights from that summit. Welcome
to the Black Information Network, Dante. So what were some
of the key points you made at the summit.

Speaker 19 (55:18):
It was a very powerful summit, the most powerful summit
I think I've ever attended in my life. I spoke
about American racism and the way that you know, English
Europeans came to what became colonial America in the seventeenth
century and started to develop laws that basically afforded themselves
the right to be able to conquer and do whatever

(55:39):
you know, they wanted to do where people were concerned,
but also how they shaped anti blackness into the legal
context I spoke with you before. If you go back
and you look at those colonial laws, what they are
doing is highlighting factors like complexion and color, and they're
also stipulating that it's not just pertaining to enslaved people,

(56:00):
people of the enslaved class. And so the targeting of
those laws in the sense of permitting people legally authorizing
people to be able to murder, to commit sexual assault
that also hit free black people as well. And so
from the beginning of this country under the English rule,
under the rulership of white people, there's an anti black

(56:21):
context that's not just being shaped into the legal formation
of society. It shapes the psychological and cultural infrastructure and
values of our society. And that's what I spoke about
in South Africa.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
What kind of parallels did you draw, if any, between
the systemic racism structure we have here in the US
compared to other countries represented at the summit.

Speaker 19 (56:41):
That's a great question, because while I was on my trip,
you know, I have access to the Worldwide Library System.
So I started doing some research while I was in
South Africa, and I realized that the same type of
legal structure that the English government implemented here in colonial America,

(57:03):
that the Dutch did the same thing in South Africa
dating back to sixteen fifty two.

Speaker 5 (57:09):
Wow.

Speaker 19 (57:10):
But in South Africa, the book or you know, yeah,
the book is called the Laws of Good Hope, And
so you can go in the library system and find
these documents. But what they are chronicling is just this
kind of religious right, this religious cultural legal right to
conquer in territories in conquer people in territories where they

(57:33):
believe those people are either heathens, they have no souls,
and they are not human. And so we have to
understand that the psychological context by which white people have
been operating where black people are concerned and where non
white people are concerned is one of in humanity. They
have been socialized to believe for hundreds of years that

(57:54):
black and brown people lack humanity and that they don't
deserve the same things that they deserve.

Speaker 5 (58:00):
Right.

Speaker 19 (58:01):
And so doctor Bobby Wright, and one of the one
of the philosophies that I used to ground my work
is doctor Bobby Wright's The Psychopathic Racial Personality, where he
talks about how you can literally see that whites are
in the way that they function with in relationship to
black people, that they are psychopathic. They have a psychopathic

(58:22):
disposition that is akin to what would be clinically diagnosed
as like an anti social personality disorder. And so I
think that within that context, we can understand that what
we're seeing today in today's society extends from that psychological dysfunction.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
Welthough, Dante, we would love to have you back on
the show to speak more about what you shared and
learned at that global Anti Racism summit that you participated
in in South Africa. Dante King, author of the book
Anti Blackness, thank you. We'll see you next week. This
is Doug Davis and you're listening to the Black Perspective
on the Black Information Network.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Thank you, dog, Doctor Orpheus Williams. And that's our program
for this week. For more on these stories, listen to
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(59:22):
be sure to follow us on social media at Black
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the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, we will bring you some of
our best segments and interviews so far this year.

Speaker 7 (59:39):
That's next week. I'm Mike Island.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Have a happy Thanksgiving and stay right here with the
Black Information Network