Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And Ryan Blackburn coming up bottom of the hour talk
(00:01):
a little bit of nuggets thanks to Steve Atwater who joined.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Us in the last hour the Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
If you missed any part of that, you go to
Broncos Country Night, that Complash podcast or revi each podcast
Apple iTunes, Spotify, the totally free and redesigned Ilheart Radio
where you get to take it for granted podcast as well.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
New episode anytime soon, next week, next week. All right,
there we go. Who's that? Do we have a guest already?
It's a surprise mystery guest. Your favorite mystery guest, my
favorite always love chatted double Steve. One thing I was
gonna ask him, we didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Get a chance to get to it was his thoughts
on this, the jersey debacles that are going on right now.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Have you seen this?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You know Warren Moon took his jersey out of retirement
to give the number one to cam Ward. You saw
Abdul Carter ask Lawrence Taylor if he could get his
number and then get denied by LT and then he's,
I guess going to Phil Simms next to ask for
for his number.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
What do you think about this?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Because like I'm I'm of the opinion that if you're
going to retire a jersey, you just do it for
like twenty years and then put it back in rotation,
like you do it so nobody just immediately.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Jumps onto it.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So it's got the proper respe you know, like the legacy,
but then like after twenty like who cares after twenty years?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Like you know, it's a mixed bag, Ben, because it
all depends on the player that we're talking about. What
was that player's contributions to that team that retired to
jersey and what was that player's contribution to the league
within itself and some teams and some families for the
for the most part, take that too serious because I
(01:32):
think Phil Samms seemed like he was leaning that way,
but maybe his daughter and his wife told him kind
of not to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
For me, I think we retire too many jerseys anyway
most of the time. But in football, you can't retire
too many. You'll run out of numbers, then run out
of numbers, you know. I think I understand forty two
in baseball, right, Jackie Robinsons understand that I understand. And
one of our that's not retired here. That I would
understand would be the Demarrius thing.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
It wasn't just what he did as a statistic accomplishment.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
They was just like the culture of the Broncos, like
there was a whole thing with that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So I can I could understand that.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But even like John Elways number seven, like it would
be considered sacrilege to most people here. I think in Denver,
if I suggested that they should unretired, but I.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Don't like for me, it doesn't. It doesn't affect a
thing to me. Of course, there of.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Course been because for you it is of it's of
insignificance to you, right for you, you just look at
it that way. For individuals who grew up here and
who are in the thirties and forties, and they saw
those Broncos in their heyday, but they also saw those
teams when they were not playing well, when they when
(02:46):
they got skunked by you know, the forty nine ers,
right right, So for them that means a lot to
have another player play the quarterback position where that number
is very tough. I mean, playing quarterback here in Denver,
it's tough.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
All Yeah, you've got you Marlin Briscoe, the first African
American quarterback players to the Broncos. You got John Elway
and all that he did, Peyton Manning, Dude, Jake Plumber.
Most people would kill for what Plumber did when he
was with Most teams would kill for a Plumber.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Broco you know what.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
And that bothers me because Jake doesn't get the love
because he's not you know yeah, yeah, because we didn't
go through the Super Bowl, but he had a quarterback.
But even think about it, like Peyton had to ask
right to wear number eighteen because that was yeah, that's
that was retired. So for me, there's two ways you
can look at it, and it all depends on how many years
the jersey has been retired, because there's a way that
(03:40):
you're paying homage to that player who previously had that number.
Now it's different like in the case of Sam's Abdua
Carter once eleven after I guess things that work out
with you, Lawrence Taylor. But two different positions. You got
one there's a quarterback, one is outside pass rusher. You
can sell that I did, but still keep the sanity
(04:02):
of what Phil Simms was able to do from a
quarterback standpoint at the Giants organization, I.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Think there are other ways, Like I think we retired
too many numbers anyway. I think like the ring of
fame should be in and of itself and maybe not
quite retiring the numbers for for some of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I mean, I understand where people are coming from. But
you're going there has to be a compromise here in
terms of you're either gonna have to go to triple
digits to some point or you know, on retired numbers, war.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Eleven, That's what I'm saying. You know, ins or whatever
was like fractional numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They running numbers is fractional or future I was fractional
numbers one to.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Eleven on a tackle. That's I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, it was number three forty one, you know, guys
playing with that's the long media, guys, I'm just saying
it like that, you know'd be absurd at some point.
It's only you got ninety man rosters and you're having
a double dip on numbers already if you got like
two three numbers retired.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
But see, okay, there's certain certain numbers that are definitely
off limits. Okay, hockey Wayne Gretzky Bobby Orr basketball twenty three.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, but I mean Lebron was wearing twenty three to
honor Jordan Well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
But yeah, but but he wasn't playing for the Chicago
Your Bulls twenty three. Okay, right, that's that's kind of different.
But for me, if it's been a significant amount of
time that's passed between the person who originally wore it
and the person who wants to wear it now, I
think it's great because, uh, my first year in college
(05:28):
had a cousin, Ben Hanks.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
He went to the.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
University of Florida, right, played at the same high school
that Andre Johnson played at. And when he got to Florida,
I mean he wanted to wear eleven, but eleven was
already retired because Steve Spurriy and Steve spurriit happened to
be his head coach retired and number and gave it
to him.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Did he Yes, that is I'm retired and number gave
it to him.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And that's a really cool That's that's incredible. Yes, I
think like for me, if they passed away, you should
un retire the number.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I just show years is an arbitrary that is an auditorary.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, but that may be tough because the family's thinking, Okay,
well my father, my uncle, my husband, you know whatever.
It is accomplished and achieved something that the team retired
the number for.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
So nobody else could wear it while he lived. Unretire it.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
If you're gonna do that, I would rather you do
that while that person is still living, to hand it off,
just like.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
One off handed it off.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Somebody suggested that they retire, and then you could wear
like a little patch on the jersey that has the
name of like the people wore it before, like as
an honorarium, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You create like a legacy journey for this particular year.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I mean, are you suggesting, Okay, well, if.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
A number has been retired, then they have a patch
that has the name of the person that it was retired.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
You wear that. It's like an honorary. It becomes like
a legacy jersey.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So the person who now is wearing the unretired number,
he has a legacy patch on his jersey.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Right, Okay, I thought he was talking about like everyone
on the team. No, no, no, no, no, just the number guy.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Like like say, you know, let's say eleven was retired
or whatever, because you just wanted that. Okay, so you'd
have a patch on their like your cousin who had
a patch that had number eleven. I it had like
Spurrier's name on it, because that's the legacy.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
You're adding to that legacy. Yeah, I'm for that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
But as far as the Giants and Abdul Carter, because
those two guys play different positions, both he and Phil Simms,
I think it would be rather cool for them to
go ahead and do it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
But also, once again, it.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Revitalizes the history associated with Phil Samms, and it also
gives a team an opportunity at some point during the
season to honor either that team or Phil Simms.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah. I think I think so too.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I mean, I don't really like I would have been
find LaRence Taylor given it, you know, But I mean
it was kind of weird because I'm like, dude, really
you're that hung up on your your number being retired.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But also the team puts.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You in a bad spot, like the team should facilitate
that so the player doesn't have to say no.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
But see, once again, now someone would ask, well, do
the numbers truly matter? And no, because Bill Parcells told
me when I said in his office. It doesn't make
a difference about the number. It's the man wearing the
jersey right right.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's That's where I'm at with it at the end
of the day, Like who cares about to not Like
I never I never cared what number I wore. You know,
I really didn't. I didn't care what I was Like, Bro,
I'm just don't give me the jersey. That's the name
on the jersey, not the number on the jersey.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
But you know, like we're all superstitious in certain ways,
well not maybe maybe maybe maybe not you, but or
betty yet bet yet a better word.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
We all creatures of habits.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And if you do something in a particular way, like
and I know guys were this way, like if they
had a great game in a football wise, they try
to remember what I ate, what I was listening to,
Did I put my right sock on before my left side?
And they would just kind of go into that routine, right,
And it's becomes a part of him. So that number
(08:57):
becomes a part of the individual, and they can't separate themselves.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
From the number.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And they think that it's the number that's performing, but
when it's you, it's.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You you you do.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It's like, what is it the Dumbo with the magic
feather or whatever? Yes, you know, like I don't, I
don't know. I was never It never registered to me
that the you know, the meal or the like, none
of that. I was never that dude. I've seen a
lot of people that were right. And I'm sure you
had your own superstitions before game. Yes, Steve talk, oh
you right, yeah, Steve Talk. Well I did the opposite.
I was like two double, yeah, I got a medium
(09:29):
still Caesar's and pizza you big Foot pizza or whatever.
No like but there everybody has their own things and
and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I'm not trying a dog superstition.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I'm just saying like, it's just never, Like I can't
conceptually understand being that attached to a number.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I can't believe it or not.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It changes because when I was in high school, every
single digits were the thing.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Everyone wanted a single digit. And even at Georgia Tech.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
This is like when you think about certain positions have
certain numbers, right, Like my number was forty in college
and I hated that number. Yes, that's the Jersey is
so wide got double digits. And then now the fact
that the way that they retired numbers, like they could
be a real thing. You know, you got one eleven
(10:14):
on your jersey. That's kind of wild. But yet you
just wanted the single digits because it said something like
when in my high school or in in Miami there
were like twenty two high schools and in our kind
of county, and that was the thing, like like you
(10:34):
were a baller if you had a single digits, and
they only gave them out the people who were balling
right in high school.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So that was kind of a right of passage.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
So you get kind of interest in that idea, and
that number becomes a part of you, because that's how
people come to know you.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I always had single digits.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I had two and four, Yes, like that was I
always had single digits, but like, and it was never
a thing.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I just grabbed the one that was there.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I was like, all right, is one of those things
and we're all superstitious or we just have natural habits.
And I would say that to happen, Like when Peyton
came here, Peyton had already established himself as one hell
of a football player. Yeah, he was already going on
to the hall face, so to see Peyton not at
eighteen and like sixteen or seventeen.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It was just like, oh, I don't look right, well
you had.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I mean when Joe Montana switched to the Chiefs, he
switched numbers is Len Dawson.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And he did it didn't look right like Joe Monty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
It was like watching Joe Montana in the Kansas City
uniform was like watching Emma Smith and the Arizona Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It just didn't look right right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
It was bad, yeah, because he had I mean he
was in sixteen when he was in San Francisco and
he was nineteen with the Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Because the Lan Dawson at sixteen just oh man, it
just looks bad.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
But I can understand a guy wanting to be beholden
to a certain number. But most of the time you
see that with quartererbacks and receivers. Yeah right, I mean
most defenders give it. Take a couple of guys here
and there are not so hump drum on it. But
now in the league, if you if you go to
(12:11):
a team and someone has a number you know before
like it was, you can buy it from them, yeah right.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And you still get a lot of that. Like guys
like buying up from them too, Like that was a
matter of fact. I mean last year Zach Wilson actually
snatched up Bo's number, did he. Yeah, and they came
to some agreement where Bo ended up getting number back
from him.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And see it's different now too, because if guys changed
their numbers.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
From a league standpoint, you got to buy the inventory.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, now you got to buy the inventory.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Buy out the inventory.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, just another brilliant way for the league to make money.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Off of you, of players, off players.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Hi, you're paying me, but now I want to change
numbers and not got to pay you back, right, I
gotta pay you to change a number.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Man, that's uh, you know, unless you change teams. But
you know that's that's uh. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, I found that fascinating. But yeah, but Zach, because
Zach Nelson was signed by the Broncos trade was signed
by the Broncos before the draft, remember yeah, yeah, he
had he had Bow's number and then he switched. Then
he switched. So okay, I want you to grant to
think about this. If you were.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
On a team, you know you baseball, basketball, hockey, choose
any professional team and you had a number and they
say you had that number for about four years and
you establish yourself whether you are preenty of pro bowler
or an All Star, and someone else comes from another
team and they've had that same number, how much would
(13:35):
you be willing to sell that number four? Or would
you just say, you know what, no, this number is me.
I've been in this number for four or five years.
I'm not selling It depends if it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Was like like, honestly, if it was some scrub coming
you know, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
If it was like a.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Baller, like we're somebody, I give it to him, you
would give it to him.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Grant right, I'm putting you on the Cincinnati Bengals. Right, Yeah,
you've been balling right as a wide.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Receiver, catch him passes from Joe Burrow.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Catching passes from Joe Burrow, and then all of a sudden,
another guy comes from I don't know, Buffalo. Why you
guys have won the same jersey number eighty?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Wait? Are we the same position? Same position? Okay?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Right, same position. So it's like if I'm a quarterback
and I'm getting receiver he wants to be like, dude,
I'm giving him the number.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I don't care. I think bear is lying.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
If I were receiver, it might be deployment as much
as much as Ben parlays and all of that.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And I find it hard to believe that you will
kind of dwindle opportunity if to put some change in
your pocket.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If we were the same position, it would be different.
I don't think i'd give the number up. But if
we were not the same position, you just give.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It to them, give it to him? Would would you?
Would you just give it to him? Okay, I'm less
than the offers.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Talking about Nah, you know what, even if he played
a different position, just go ahead and take.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It if he did not if they make but if
it makes me better, man, like if they you better,
if it makes us better as a unit, Like we
getting this guy and he's you know, he's gonna make
us better. Yeah, he's already coming into my team trying
to take away my recessions and he wants to take
away my number.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
If it's the same position, I'm not giving it up.
So what would you sell it for? I wouldn't. If
we're the same position, I'm not giving it up. You're
gonna have to cut me.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's hard for me to believe that you're going to
miss an opportunity to put some money.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
In and about money, not everything's about money.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I can't believe that that's a different because then you're
saying his dude's replacing me.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You know he's better than me, he's replacing it. That's
what I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I'm not if we're the same position, I'm not doing it.
But for a different position, absolutely not problem. I don't
care you wear this. I'll wear you know.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It will be the people paying attention to the name
on the back, not the number.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
So if Pat Bryant went to divine and said, hell no, but.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
If I'm Jared Stidham, you can have it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Because he's a quarterback, you make me better. All right,
I'm gonna give you this. I go out there and
make you better, make me look good.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Oh man, I still don't believe that you would blow an.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Opportunity if they come money. Man, No, See that's the thing.
Oh I got money, you know that?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Like that that great someone else's money, Well, someone else's money.
You only better than money is more money other people's
money exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But it's my teammate, though, I says, with you, you
don't know him. He just came to the team. You
don't know him.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I'm just saying I want the money this season. I'm like, grant,
what you want to put on it?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Put some on it.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It's like I got five on it. Ryan Blackbirr, will
we come back Brooks Country to night? Bring on Ryan
Blackburn from Mile High Sports.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Ryan, How you doing this evening?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
I'm doing well, guys. Thanks for having me on Big,
Big Game yesterday.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Big Game yesterday, Big finish ag on the three with
the assist from Rush Westbrook. What a monumental effort from NICOLEA.
Jokicch and what felt like throughout that game the quietest
forty plus twenty plus board game I've ever seen.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
It's a skill of Yokich's, isn't it Where you turn around,
you look away from the screen a little bit, and
you look back and holy cow, he's got thirty and fifteen,
or in this case he had forty and twenty two.
I just a truly tremendous game from him, one where
he just continues to show that if he is at
that level, if he's willing the team to be at
(17:33):
least close and they have an opportunity to take it,
Clearly the best player in the world in a game
where Shake Gildes Alexander also played. You and I we
went back and forth previously in terms of the MVP conversation.
I think we pretty well know who the most valuable
impactful player is at this point.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, I have one question that I just I've been
dying to ask you now. After this win, a lot
of individuals to celebrate. I don't know how you celebrated,
if you celebrated. Is there something wrong with Nuggets fans
celebrating this almost like the Nuggets have always already won
the series?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Is is that a problem?
Speaker 4 (18:13):
It's funny. I I caught a little bit of flack
for like being a little bit more negative on the
team before the series and then celebrating us a strong
game one win with the group, because like, this was
an improbable win. This was an impossible situation for Denver
to be and the numbers, the analytics effectively say that
you have like a ten to fifteen percent chance to
(18:36):
win that game yesterday, even like even if you had
one day off, because teams that are as good as
Okay see that have one You've got one day off
after a seven day, seven game series. It's just impossible
to be in that situation and for tend to be
able to pull it out the ways that they did
where they didn't lead after the first quarter. I don't
digrudge any Nuggets fans from celebrating that moment. It doesn't
(19:00):
that Denver's going to win the series. And I think
that I can understand your perspective, and I'm saying, hey,
you don't want to put the car before the horse
here if you have high, high goal, high expectations. But
I don't know if Nuggets fans have that highest expectations
based off of the way that the regular season went
and kind of the way that things were talked about going.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
In tumer Ryan Blackburn from a mile high sports.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
You know, as as we look at this, I mean
a lot of people took a lot of hope from that.
You take a game off oka See right there at
the top, right off their court, and you feel like
that puts you in the driver's But this is a
very deep Oka See team and they won a lot
of games these year.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
What do the Nuggets have to do to be able
to pull this thing off.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Well, they've got to continue to be resilient. They have
to I think they've got to cut down the turnovers
as much as possible. The worst thing that you can
do against ok See is just not get shots up,
because you clearly see the advantages that Denver has in
this situation where they've got the size advantage with Jokic,
with Aaron Gordon being physical, Christian Brown class crashing the glass.
(19:58):
I do think that Okay will make some of those
adjustments feel a little bit better on the defense's glasses
the series goes on, but it is going to be
an advantage that Denver can also always try to breast.
So as long as Denver's getting shots up and they
aren't turning the ball over, they aren't missing free throws,
they're not doing things that good teams, you just have
(20:19):
to be able to do the good things. I think
that Denver will be in a pretty good place to
at least stay in the game with oka See because
let's say you say, Okay, they can get hot at times,
but they're not an elite shooting team. They're not a
team that's going to, I think, outgun you on the
other side, Jalen Williams on the other side of five
of twenty, Chet Holmgren as can be told, he's still
(20:41):
very young, still very inexperienced, and Shay really is the
only guy that you trust to hit those massive shots
of the game on the line. So Denver, I think
is in a pretty good place to at least keep
these games close and then who knows, maybe they could
take another three.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Now, there was a guy for Okac who was really disruptive,
and we watched a little bit of the game here
last night, and that was Alex Caruso.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And most people don't give.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Caruso a lot of credit because he's not a household name.
How much of a problem did you see Caruso being
last night and how much of a desch make can
he be, you know, moving forward for the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah, unsurprisingly, Caruso is one of my favorite players to watch.
He is. He's unbelievable defensively, one of the best defensive
guards in the NBA today, and his ability to be
in the right place at the right time all the
time and kind of go outside of his area to
make some of these plays is just truly impressive. Jokic
(21:42):
is going to have that cat and mouse game. Murray's
going to have that cat and mouse game with him
all series, they're going to have to be smarter. Caruso
basically jumped the passing lanes on several occasions. He went
from he kind of rotated over from when the offensive
player turned his back and then locked the ball from behind.
It's going to be a very interesting kind of cat
and nek game with him. If he's not making as
(22:04):
many shots as he did in the last game, then
maybe there's a possibility he doesn't play as much. But
if Denver keeps letting him go five of nine from three,
he's gonna be on the court to make all these
great plays. So it's gonna be tough like he It's
one of the reasons why OKC was favored by so
much in this series, because they have three or four
different versions of Alex Caruso coming off their benches.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Great.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, and that's one of those things like you look
at this thing on paper, you look at the box score,
and you're you're scratching your head.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
How did Denver win this thing?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
You had Porter Peyton Watson and Julian Strather are combined
for seven points, and meanwhile you let Caruso go off
for twenty. Lou Gentz, we got to call him the
human dort now because he was on fire four of
nine and that one was some clutch shots and one
of their you know, bench players that tends to be
kind of a sniper as Isaiah Joe win all of
four like this felt like a game that okay, so
(22:53):
you should have buy all rights won and didn't. How
does Denver replicate this formula to be able to continue
to win.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
The biggest thing that they can do, Okay, See only
turns the ball over nine times in the game yesterday.
They are a pretty low turnover team overall. They force
a lot. It's one of the reasons they win the
possession game as much as they do. I think that
if Denver can minimize that impact, can turn over the
ball just as many times as okaysee turns the ball over.
(23:23):
I think Denver shot making can kind of bear out there.
Oki is the guy that they're not going to really
be able to stop. Like he can get to his spots.
It's pretty clear Isaiah Hartenstein, Chet Holmgrens. Those guys are
less of an individual defensive matchup than and vic Zubas
was for the Clippers. And I think that Murray, despite
the fact that he's facing a whole bunch of talented guards,
(23:44):
a whole bunch of elite defensive guards. He can get
free to his spots as well, depending on how he
reads the floor, how he creates space. The Nuggets are
just such a smart, cerebral team that they're going to
be able to create open shops. It's going to be
about hitting them. It's going to be about operating at
the right moments. Russ shot one of five from three
of his last game, Christian shot one of four. I
(24:05):
think Michael Porter was oh of three or so. Denver
can get better production from the perimeter from those guys,
and they're going to have to win those games. You
cannot miss that opportunity when those guys get their shots.
It's why it was such a wild game one that
the thunder were not able to win because they got
it from Cruso, they got it from Blue Dorth, they
got it from a lot of their guys, so they
(24:26):
needed to take advantage and Denver was still able to
steal it.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Is it safe to say that looking at this series
and moving forward that with all the talent that the
Nuggets have with Jamal and what we've seen, what Aaron
going to do as far as being clutch and Nikola
yulk as we know it is, it's safe to say
that Russell Westbrook it's kind of that wild card, and
(24:51):
you need him to be kind of like that wild thing,
even though we know that sometimes he can turn the
ball over. Because I was all going to be and
as we were leading into the show and I said, well,
Ben had to be home like a lot of Nuggas
fans biting their nails when Christan Brown got the rebound
through the outlet to Russell and he's up the court
(25:11):
and everyone's probably thinking, you know, was he going to
turn the ball or was he going to make the
right decision? But I think that he can be a wildcard.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
What do you say?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
I think it's a great call. I think that. I mean,
that's that's kind of apparent for wild cards, right. You
never know exactly what you're going to get, but if
you get the good side of the wild cards, then
it could flip the game. And that's exactly what happened
with Russ yesterday. He had a big third quarter, especially
made a couple of land ones, hit a three, did
a lot of great things. He's one of those guys
(25:43):
and I've compared them to Bruce Brown. For the entire season,
Denver has needed that version of him to step up
off the bench. For much of the regular season, Russ
was really struggling. He was actually better when he was
in the starting lineup, But now he's starting to find
some comfort and because everybody's just playing playoff minutes, there's
not a lot of full bench lineups that he has
(26:04):
to deal with trying to figure out how to navigate
these different things. So Denver, because Jokic is going to
be out there for almost that entire time, Murray's going
to be out there for almost that entire time, Gordon Porter,
Christian Brown. Russ is now looking better and kind of
feeding off of those guys and just doing what the
team needs in concert with what the other guys are doing.
So it's been great to watch. It's exactly what they
(26:24):
brought him in to do.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Is this bench play sustainable because I mean, you look
at the Nuggets and their bench is really two guys.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I mean, Strawthor got a few minutes, but their bench
is two guys.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You look at it, okay see, and they're a legit
nine deep basketball team.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Even at a tenth guy gets some minutes last night.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Is this sustainable for a team that just came off
a seven game series and is up against the team
that is coming off a sweep.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I don't know. I think that we've seen Denver rise
to the occasion before. I think for Jokic is sustainable
and for the other guys that's going to be a
game by game basis based off of how they play.
Jamal Murray was fine in this game. He could have
been way better. I thought he was making some good plays,
but not necessarily transcendent or anything. Aaron Gordon was really
(27:15):
good in this game. So they got the Jokic game.
They got the Aaron Gordon game, especially with the game
winning three. They did not get a great Michael Porter game.
Michael Porter now has to be the one to step
up in the next one because he should be a
little bit more fresh. He only played twenty four minutes.
But yeah, like with the bench playing as short of
minutes as they are, Russell Westbrook is just soaking up
a lot of that. He's got thirty minutes in this
(27:37):
last game. Sayton Watson's at fifteen, I think that he
could play more. He was minus twenty two in the game,
but I still think that his minutes were actually pretty good,
especially a defensive production. So there's a lot to like
from those two guys. But yeah, you're right, it's gonna
be hard to win with a seven and a half
man rotation. It's been done before. Usually teams kind of
(27:58):
go to that eight and a half manner rotation by
this point. Okay, he's abnormal in that regard, But I
still think that Denver Will probably gets hired. But will
they get hired sooner than there they get through the series?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
You know, are we seeing a different version of Nicola
Jokis And the reason I say that is that usually
we're used to seeing him do his thing on the court,
but just be really silent. But over the past two
series I've seen when they pan to the sideline, it
seems like Nicola is being more of a leader. He's
being more vocals. He's instructing guys, He's telling them to
(28:35):
do certain things. Are we seeing a different level of
Nicola that we didn't see before that goes beyond what
his efforts are on the court.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I think that the Yokic coaching aspect of this, it's
a little bit heightened because of the coaching change, just
because I think Adaman is asking him and wanting him
to do it even more than he had been doing.
But it is something that he's done in previously, but
he is much more comfortable sharing his voice. When you're
a three time MVP who could have been four, could
(29:06):
have been five if this race had gone his way,
then I think you gain a little bit of confidence
in yourself. He's been in this league for ten years,
You've had a lot of opportunities to see the floor.
He's seeing it and now he's sharing it with his team,
and I do think that it's great for the Nuggets
because so many of the greats have their leaders on
(29:28):
the floor. They are leaders, They're vocal, they are competitive,
they're communicative. They find ways to hold people accountable, and
that's really the key word. I would say, only people accountable.
In a situation where Denver they didn't really hold themselves
accountable for the first seventy nine games of this season
and got the coach and the jam fired as a result.
It's not entirely their fault, but like I do think
(29:51):
that if things go a little bit smoother on the court,
then you might see Michael Malone and Calvin Bo's still here.
So it's interesting to think about how you Kitch has
now activated that side of himself after the head coaching change.
But I do think that that's part of it, getting
out from under Michael Malone, his only coach that he's
ever had in the NBA. Now it's activated him and
(30:13):
put him into a situation where he feels like he's
required to do this.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
It's not just additive that with Ryan Blackburn from Mile
High Sports. You know, Michael Porter Junior kind of been
a liability on the offensive end post injury. If they
did if they can't get his scoring back, where does
that Where does that scoring come from?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
What is the X factor going forward?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I think they will get it back for what it's worth.
I think this is one where he looked really tired,
really fatigued, and not just physically but mentally. I was
I was wondering about the decisions that he was making.
Once he catches up in the series, I think he'll
have some games. But if not him, You're you're going
to see Russell Westbrook step into that spot very frequently.
You're going to see Peyton Watson step into that spot.
(30:55):
Maybe not as frequently, but occasionally so. But Denver doesn't
have that many answers. To be honest, if julians father
got a little bit of time, but I don't expect
him to play much more than six to eight minutes
every game in this series. I kind of think that
Denver's was gonna have to live with it. They're gonna
have to trust Michael Porter to figure some stuff out,
and frankly, I'm okay with that because one, the other
(31:17):
options are not exactly stellar, but two, Michael Porter has
stepped up in big moments throughout the first round, throughout
last year's playoffs, and throughout the championship ron So I
think you give him an opportunity to continue to figure
things out. If it's pretty clear that he's not the
right fit for it, then I mean, already he played
twenty four minutes in this game. Russell Westbrook played more
(31:39):
than him. Maybe they changed the starting lineup, but I
kind of think they're just going to stick it out.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, it's kind of the way it sounds.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Talk with Ryan Blackburn at NBA Blackburn on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
He's over there at Mile High Sports. Check them out, Ryan.
We appreciate the time.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Thanks man thinks nick yep, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Ryan Blackburn had to be a blackburn on the Twitter.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
You look at the box score from that game, if
you didn't watch it, you would almost not believe that
the Nuggets won just based on looking at that. I mean,
there wasn't exactly a game where they were shooting lights out.
It wasn't exactly a game that they had a diversity
of scoring, you know, options, as far as that kind
of stuff goes. It just it looked like a game
in which, if you just look at again the numbers,
(32:23):
it looked like a game in which Oka See probably won,
but you got forty two out of Yoki and those
twenty two rebounds were huge. I will say. The thing
to me that that sort of jumped out was the rebounding.
The Nuggets just out rebounded okay see, y'all rebounded it
by twenty second chances are huge.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, that's kind of what okay see kind of looked
at as to why they lost the game, those second
chance points, and whether it's offensive rebounds defensive rebounds. When
the ball comes off the rim and you got to
you got to take it and get out in transition,
that's kind of where you are right now as a team.
I don't and I don't care which team you are
(33:03):
still in the playoffs, but you have to dominate.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
On the boards.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
And if you don't, and I'll say, let me back
in for a second, I would hate to look at
the box score and see the team dominate the boards
and say that that team lost.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I don't think I've ever seen that take place. I
could be mistaken, but that is pure effort that that's
kind of one too. And even though the Okac they're
the younger team, may split the regular season with the
Nuggets and they had a longer layoff than the Nuggets,
maybe going to that game seven really helped the Nuggets
(33:39):
that hunger was still there for them and they performed
that way because at the beginning of the game, you look,
you like, going into the second quarter, you think, like
the way that Okac was knocking down shots consistently and
forcing those turnovers, like it was going to be a
larger deficit than what it ended up being.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
And that's one way that goes.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I know he's probably telling the guys, look, when we
look at the turnovers, we had eighteen, they had nine, right,
and then you're giving up twenty three points of the turnovers.
That's not going to win you the ball game. And
luckily it just seemed as though OKAC being the team
that rested the longest, it seemed as though that they
(34:20):
and I could be wrong, like they kind of ran
out of that invisible juice, that energy that they had
at the very beginning because they had allowed the Nuggets
to climb back into the game.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Certainly did.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I mean the in the second half they got outscored
by the Nuggets in the five and the third, they
got outscored by seven in the fourth, and that was
the difference in that game.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I mean, it was closer.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
The second quarter was all okay see and then they
just kind of ran out of gas. After that, it
was just chipping away, chip away, chip away. So we'll
get a chance to break down that a little bit
more as well as I want to get to some
of the the cu stuff going onst your door to
the pros, all that kind of stuff here was in
the Broncos Counry to night right here on Kawa
And Ryan Blackburn coming up bottom of the hour talk
(00:01):
a little bit of nuggets thanks to Steve Atwater who joined.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Us in the last hour the Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
If you missed any part of that, you go to
Broncos Country Night, that Complash podcast or revi each podcast
Apple iTunes, Spotify, the totally free and redesigned Ilheart Radio
where you get to take it for granted podcast as well.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
New episode anytime soon, next week, next week. All right,
there we go. Who's that? Do we have a guest already?
It's a surprise mystery guest. Your favorite mystery guest, my
favorite always love chatted double Steve. One thing I was
gonna ask him, we didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Get a chance to get to it was his thoughts
on this, the jersey debacles that are going on right now.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Have you seen this?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You know Warren Moon took his jersey out of retirement
to give the number one to cam Ward. You saw
Abdul Carter ask Lawrence Taylor if he could get his
number and then get denied by LT and then he's,
I guess going to Phil Simms next to ask for
for his number.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
What do you think about this?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Because like I'm I'm of the opinion that if you're
going to retire a jersey, you just do it for
like twenty years and then put it back in rotation,
like you do it so nobody just immediately.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Jumps onto it.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So it's got the proper respe you know, like the legacy,
but then like after twenty like who cares after twenty years?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Like you know, it's a mixed bag, Ben, because it
all depends on the player that we're talking about. What
was that player's contributions to that team that retired to
jersey and what was that player's contribution to the league
within itself and some teams and some families for the
for the most part, take that too serious because I
(01:32):
think Phil Samms seemed like he was leaning that way,
but maybe his daughter and his wife told him kind
of not to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
For me, I think we retire too many jerseys anyway
most of the time. But in football, you can't retire
too many. You'll run out of numbers, then run out
of numbers, you know. I think I understand forty two
in baseball, right, Jackie Robinsons understand that I understand. And
one of our that's not retired here. That I would
understand would be the Demarrius thing.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
It wasn't just what he did as a statistic accomplishment.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
They was just like the culture of the Broncos, like
there was a whole thing with that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So I can I could understand that.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But even like John Elways number seven, like it would
be considered sacrilege to most people here. I think in Denver,
if I suggested that they should unretired, but I.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Don't like for me, it doesn't. It doesn't affect a
thing to me. Of course, there of.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Course been because for you it is of it's of
insignificance to you, right for you, you just look at
it that way. For individuals who grew up here and
who are in the thirties and forties, and they saw
those Broncos in their heyday, but they also saw those
teams when they were not playing well, when they when
(02:46):
they got skunked by you know, the forty nine ers,
right right, So for them that means a lot to
have another player play the quarterback position where that number
is very tough. I mean, playing quarterback here in Denver,
it's tough.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
All Yeah, you've got you Marlin Briscoe, the first African
American quarterback players to the Broncos. You got John Elway
and all that he did, Peyton Manning, Dude, Jake Plumber.
Most people would kill for what Plumber did when he
was with Most teams would kill for a Plumber.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Broco you know what.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
And that bothers me because Jake doesn't get the love
because he's not you know yeah, yeah, because we didn't
go through the Super Bowl, but he had a quarterback.
But even think about it, like Peyton had to ask
right to wear number eighteen because that was yeah, that's
that was retired. So for me, there's two ways you
can look at it, and it all depends on how many years
the jersey has been retired, because there's a way that
(03:40):
you're paying homage to that player who previously had that number.
Now it's different like in the case of Sam's Abdua
Carter once eleven after I guess things that work out
with you, Lawrence Taylor. But two different positions. You got
one there's a quarterback, one is outside pass rusher. You
can sell that I did, but still keep the sanity
(04:02):
of what Phil Simms was able to do from a
quarterback standpoint at the Giants organization, I.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Think there are other ways, Like I think we retired
too many numbers anyway. I think like the ring of
fame should be in and of itself and maybe not
quite retiring the numbers for for some of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I mean, I understand where people are coming from. But
you're going there has to be a compromise here in
terms of you're either gonna have to go to triple
digits to some point or you know, on retired numbers, war.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Eleven, That's what I'm saying. You know, ins or whatever
was like fractional numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They running numbers is fractional or future I was fractional
numbers one to.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Eleven on a tackle. That's I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, it was number three forty one, you know, guys
playing with that's the long media, guys, I'm just saying
it like that, you know'd be absurd at some point.
It's only you got ninety man rosters and you're having
a double dip on numbers already if you got like
two three numbers retired.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
But see, okay, there's certain certain numbers that are definitely
off limits. Okay, hockey Wayne Gretzky Bobby Orr basketball twenty three.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, but I mean Lebron was wearing twenty three to
honor Jordan Well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
But yeah, but but he wasn't playing for the Chicago
Your Bulls twenty three. Okay, right, that's that's kind of different.
But for me, if it's been a significant amount of
time that's passed between the person who originally wore it
and the person who wants to wear it now, I
think it's great because, uh, my first year in college
(05:28):
had a cousin, Ben Hanks.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
He went to the.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
University of Florida, right, played at the same high school
that Andre Johnson played at. And when he got to Florida,
I mean he wanted to wear eleven, but eleven was
already retired because Steve Spurriy and Steve spurriit happened to
be his head coach retired and number and gave it
to him.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Did he Yes, that is I'm retired and number gave
it to him.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And that's a really cool That's that's incredible. Yes, I
think like for me, if they passed away, you should
un retire the number.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I just show years is an arbitrary that is an auditorary.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, but that may be tough because the family's thinking, Okay,
well my father, my uncle, my husband, you know whatever.
It is accomplished and achieved something that the team retired
the number for.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
So nobody else could wear it while he lived. Unretire it.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
If you're gonna do that, I would rather you do
that while that person is still living, to hand it off,
just like.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
One off handed it off.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Somebody suggested that they retire, and then you could wear
like a little patch on the jersey that has the
name of like the people wore it before, like as
an honorarium, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You create like a legacy journey for this particular year.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I mean, are you suggesting, Okay, well, if.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
A number has been retired, then they have a patch
that has the name of the person that it was retired.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
You wear that. It's like an honorary. It becomes like
a legacy jersey.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So the person who now is wearing the unretired number,
he has a legacy patch on his jersey.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Right, Okay, I thought he was talking about like everyone
on the team. No, no, no, no, no, just the number guy.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Like like say, you know, let's say eleven was retired
or whatever, because you just wanted that. Okay, so you'd
have a patch on their like your cousin who had
a patch that had number eleven. I it had like
Spurrier's name on it, because that's the legacy.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
You're adding to that legacy. Yeah, I'm for that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
But as far as the Giants and Abdul Carter, because
those two guys play different positions, both he and Phil Simms,
I think it would be rather cool for them to
go ahead and do it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
But also, once again, it.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Revitalizes the history associated with Phil Samms, and it also
gives a team an opportunity at some point during the
season to honor either that team or Phil Simms.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah. I think I think so too.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I mean, I don't really like I would have been
find LaRence Taylor given it, you know, But I mean
it was kind of weird because I'm like, dude, really
you're that hung up on your your number being retired.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But also the team puts.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You in a bad spot, like the team should facilitate
that so the player doesn't have to say no.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
But see, once again, now someone would ask, well, do
the numbers truly matter? And no, because Bill Parcells told
me when I said in his office. It doesn't make
a difference about the number. It's the man wearing the
jersey right right.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's That's where I'm at with it at the end
of the day, Like who cares about to not Like
I never I never cared what number I wore. You know,
I really didn't. I didn't care what I was Like, Bro,
I'm just don't give me the jersey. That's the name
on the jersey, not the number on the jersey.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
But you know, like we're all superstitious in certain ways,
well not maybe maybe maybe maybe not you, but or
betty yet bet yet a better word.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
We all creatures of habits.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And if you do something in a particular way, like
and I know guys were this way, like if they
had a great game in a football wise, they try
to remember what I ate, what I was listening to,
Did I put my right sock on before my left side?
And they would just kind of go into that routine, right,
And it's becomes a part of him. So that number
(08:57):
becomes a part of the individual, and they can't separate themselves.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
From the number.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And they think that it's the number that's performing, but
when it's you, it's.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You you you do.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It's like, what is it the Dumbo with the magic
feather or whatever? Yes, you know, like I don't, I
don't know. I was never It never registered to me
that the you know, the meal or the like, none
of that. I was never that dude. I've seen a
lot of people that were right. And I'm sure you
had your own superstitions before game. Yes, Steve talk, oh
you right, yeah, Steve Talk. Well I did the opposite.
I was like two double, yeah, I got a medium
(09:29):
still Caesar's and pizza you big Foot pizza or whatever.
No like but there everybody has their own things and
and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I'm not trying a dog superstition.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I'm just saying like, it's just never, Like I can't
conceptually understand being that attached to a number.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I can't believe it or not.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It changes because when I was in high school, every
single digits were the thing.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Everyone wanted a single digit. And even at Georgia Tech.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
This is like when you think about certain positions have
certain numbers, right, Like my number was forty in college
and I hated that number. Yes, that's the Jersey is
so wide got double digits. And then now the fact
that the way that they retired numbers, like they could
be a real thing. You know, you got one eleven
(10:14):
on your jersey. That's kind of wild. But yet you
just wanted the single digits because it said something like
when in my high school or in in Miami there
were like twenty two high schools and in our kind
of county, and that was the thing, like like you
(10:34):
were a baller if you had a single digits, and
they only gave them out the people who were balling
right in high school.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So that was kind of a right of passage.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
So you get kind of interest in that idea, and
that number becomes a part of you, because that's how
people come to know you.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I always had single digits.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I had two and four, Yes, like that was I
always had single digits, but like, and it was never
a thing.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I just grabbed the one that was there.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I was like, all right, is one of those things
and we're all superstitious or we just have natural habits.
And I would say that to happen, Like when Peyton
came here, Peyton had already established himself as one hell
of a football player. Yeah, he was already going on
to the hall face, so to see Peyton not at
eighteen and like sixteen or seventeen.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It was just like, oh, I don't look right, well
you had.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I mean when Joe Montana switched to the Chiefs, he
switched numbers is Len Dawson.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And he did it didn't look right like Joe Monty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
It was like watching Joe Montana in the Kansas City
uniform was like watching Emma Smith and the Arizona Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It just didn't look right right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
It was bad, yeah, because he had I mean he
was in sixteen when he was in San Francisco and
he was nineteen with the Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Because the Lan Dawson at sixteen just oh man, it
just looks bad.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
But I can understand a guy wanting to be beholden
to a certain number. But most of the time you
see that with quartererbacks and receivers. Yeah right, I mean
most defenders give it. Take a couple of guys here
and there are not so hump drum on it. But
now in the league, if you if you go to
(12:11):
a team and someone has a number you know before
like it was, you can buy it from them, yeah right.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And you still get a lot of that. Like guys
like buying up from them too, Like that was a
matter of fact. I mean last year Zach Wilson actually
snatched up Bo's number, did he. Yeah, and they came
to some agreement where Bo ended up getting number back
from him.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And see it's different now too, because if guys changed
their numbers.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
From a league standpoint, you got to buy the inventory.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, now you got to buy the inventory.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Buy out the inventory.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, just another brilliant way for the league to make money.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Off of you, of players, off players.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Hi, you're paying me, but now I want to change
numbers and not got to pay you back, right, I
gotta pay you to change a number.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Man, that's uh, you know, unless you change teams. But
you know that's that's uh. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, I found that fascinating. But yeah, but Zach, because
Zach Nelson was signed by the Broncos trade was signed
by the Broncos before the draft, remember yeah, yeah, he
had he had Bow's number and then he switched. Then
he switched. So okay, I want you to grant to
think about this. If you were.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
On a team, you know you baseball, basketball, hockey, choose
any professional team and you had a number and they
say you had that number for about four years and
you establish yourself whether you are preenty of pro bowler
or an All Star, and someone else comes from another
team and they've had that same number, how much would
(13:35):
you be willing to sell that number four? Or would
you just say, you know what, no, this number is me.
I've been in this number for four or five years.
I'm not selling It depends if it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Was like like, honestly, if it was some scrub coming
you know, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
If it was like a.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Baller, like we're somebody, I give it to him, you
would give it to him.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Grant right, I'm putting you on the Cincinnati Bengals. Right, Yeah,
you've been balling right as a wide.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Receiver, catch him passes from Joe Burrow.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Catching passes from Joe Burrow, and then all of a sudden,
another guy comes from I don't know, Buffalo. Why you
guys have won the same jersey number eighty?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Wait? Are we the same position? Same position? Okay?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Right, same position. So it's like if I'm a quarterback
and I'm getting receiver he wants to be like, dude,
I'm giving him the number.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I don't care. I think bear is lying.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
If I were receiver, it might be deployment as much
as much as Ben parlays and all of that.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And I find it hard to believe that you will
kind of dwindle opportunity if to put some change in
your pocket.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If we were the same position, it would be different.
I don't think i'd give the number up. But if
we were not the same position, you just give.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It to them, give it to him? Would would you?
Would you just give it to him? Okay, I'm less
than the offers.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Talking about Nah, you know what, even if he played
a different position, just go ahead and take.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It if he did not if they make but if
it makes me better, man, like if they you better,
if it makes us better as a unit, Like we
getting this guy and he's you know, he's gonna make
us better. Yeah, he's already coming into my team trying
to take away my recessions and he wants to take
away my number.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
If it's the same position, I'm not giving it up.
So what would you sell it for? I wouldn't. If
we're the same position, I'm not giving it up. You're
gonna have to cut me.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's hard for me to believe that you're going to
miss an opportunity to put some money.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
In and about money, not everything's about money.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I can't believe that that's a different because then you're
saying his dude's replacing me.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You know he's better than me, he's replacing it. That's
what I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I'm not if we're the same position, I'm not doing it.
But for a different position, absolutely not problem. I don't
care you wear this. I'll wear you know.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It will be the people paying attention to the name
on the back, not the number.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
So if Pat Bryant went to divine and said, hell no, but.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
If I'm Jared Stidham, you can have it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Because he's a quarterback, you make me better. All right,
I'm gonna give you this. I go out there and
make you better, make me look good.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Oh man, I still don't believe that you would blow an.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Opportunity if they come money. Man, No, See that's the thing.
Oh I got money, you know that?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Like that that great someone else's money, Well, someone else's money.
You only better than money is more money other people's
money exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But it's my teammate, though, I says, with you, you
don't know him. He just came to the team. You
don't know him.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I'm just saying I want the money this season. I'm like, grant,
what you want to put on it?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Put some on it.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It's like I got five on it. Ryan Blackbirr, will
we come back Brooks Country to night? Bring on Ryan
Blackburn from Mile High Sports.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Ryan, How you doing this evening?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
I'm doing well, guys. Thanks for having me on Big,
Big Game yesterday.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Big Game yesterday, Big finish ag on the three with
the assist from Rush Westbrook. What a monumental effort from NICOLEA.
Jokicch and what felt like throughout that game the quietest
forty plus twenty plus board game I've ever seen.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
It's a skill of Yokich's, isn't it Where you turn around,
you look away from the screen a little bit, and
you look back and holy cow, he's got thirty and fifteen,
or in this case he had forty and twenty two.
I just a truly tremendous game from him, one where
he just continues to show that if he is at
that level, if he's willing the team to be at
(17:33):
least close and they have an opportunity to take it,
Clearly the best player in the world in a game
where Shake Gildes Alexander also played. You and I we
went back and forth previously in terms of the MVP conversation.
I think we pretty well know who the most valuable
impactful player is at this point.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, I have one question that I just I've been
dying to ask you now. After this win, a lot
of individuals to celebrate. I don't know how you celebrated,
if you celebrated. Is there something wrong with Nuggets fans
celebrating this almost like the Nuggets have always already won
the series?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Is is that a problem?
Speaker 4 (18:13):
It's funny. I I caught a little bit of flack
for like being a little bit more negative on the
team before the series and then celebrating us a strong
game one win with the group, because like, this was
an improbable win. This was an impossible situation for Denver
to be and the numbers, the analytics effectively say that
you have like a ten to fifteen percent chance to
(18:36):
win that game yesterday, even like even if you had
one day off, because teams that are as good as
Okay see that have one You've got one day off
after a seven day, seven game series. It's just impossible
to be in that situation and for tend to be
able to pull it out the ways that they did
where they didn't lead after the first quarter. I don't
digrudge any Nuggets fans from celebrating that moment. It doesn't
(19:00):
that Denver's going to win the series. And I think
that I can understand your perspective, and I'm saying, hey,
you don't want to put the car before the horse
here if you have high, high goal, high expectations. But
I don't know if Nuggets fans have that highest expectations
based off of the way that the regular season went
and kind of the way that things were talked about going.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
In tumer Ryan Blackburn from a mile high sports.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
You know, as as we look at this, I mean
a lot of people took a lot of hope from that.
You take a game off oka See right there at
the top, right off their court, and you feel like
that puts you in the driver's But this is a
very deep Oka See team and they won a lot
of games these year.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
What do the Nuggets have to do to be able
to pull this thing off.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Well, they've got to continue to be resilient. They have
to I think they've got to cut down the turnovers
as much as possible. The worst thing that you can
do against ok See is just not get shots up,
because you clearly see the advantages that Denver has in
this situation where they've got the size advantage with Jokic,
with Aaron Gordon being physical, Christian Brown class crashing the glass.
(19:58):
I do think that Okay will make some of those
adjustments feel a little bit better on the defense's glasses
the series goes on, but it is going to be
an advantage that Denver can also always try to breast.
So as long as Denver's getting shots up and they
aren't turning the ball over, they aren't missing free throws,
they're not doing things that good teams, you just have
(20:19):
to be able to do the good things. I think
that Denver will be in a pretty good place to
at least stay in the game with oka See because
let's say you say, Okay, they can get hot at times,
but they're not an elite shooting team. They're not a
team that's going to, I think, outgun you on the
other side, Jalen Williams on the other side of five
of twenty, Chet Holmgren as can be told, he's still
(20:41):
very young, still very inexperienced, and Shay really is the
only guy that you trust to hit those massive shots
of the game on the line. So Denver, I think
is in a pretty good place to at least keep
these games close and then who knows, maybe they could
take another three.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Now, there was a guy for Okac who was really disruptive,
and we watched a little bit of the game here
last night, and that was Alex Caruso.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And most people don't give.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Caruso a lot of credit because he's not a household name.
How much of a problem did you see Caruso being
last night and how much of a desch make can
he be, you know, moving forward for the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah, unsurprisingly, Caruso is one of my favorite players to watch.
He is. He's unbelievable defensively, one of the best defensive
guards in the NBA today, and his ability to be
in the right place at the right time all the
time and kind of go outside of his area to
make some of these plays is just truly impressive. Jokic
(21:42):
is going to have that cat and mouse game. Murray's
going to have that cat and mouse game with him
all series, they're going to have to be smarter. Caruso
basically jumped the passing lanes on several occasions. He went
from he kind of rotated over from when the offensive
player turned his back and then locked the ball from behind.
It's going to be a very interesting kind of cat
and nek game with him. If he's not making as
(22:04):
many shots as he did in the last game, then
maybe there's a possibility he doesn't play as much. But
if Denver keeps letting him go five of nine from three,
he's gonna be on the court to make all these
great plays. So it's gonna be tough like he It's
one of the reasons why OKC was favored by so
much in this series, because they have three or four
different versions of Alex Caruso coming off their benches.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Great.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, and that's one of those things like you look
at this thing on paper, you look at the box score,
and you're you're scratching your head.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
How did Denver win this thing?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
You had Porter Peyton Watson and Julian Strather are combined
for seven points, and meanwhile you let Caruso go off
for twenty. Lou Gentz, we got to call him the
human dort now because he was on fire four of
nine and that one was some clutch shots and one
of their you know, bench players that tends to be
kind of a sniper as Isaiah Joe win all of
four like this felt like a game that okay, so
(22:53):
you should have buy all rights won and didn't. How
does Denver replicate this formula to be able to continue
to win.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
The biggest thing that they can do, Okay, See only
turns the ball over nine times in the game yesterday.
They are a pretty low turnover team overall. They force
a lot. It's one of the reasons they win the
possession game as much as they do. I think that
if Denver can minimize that impact, can turn over the
ball just as many times as okaysee turns the ball over.
(23:23):
I think Denver shot making can kind of bear out there.
Oki is the guy that they're not going to really
be able to stop. Like he can get to his spots.
It's pretty clear Isaiah Hartenstein, Chet Holmgrens. Those guys are
less of an individual defensive matchup than and vic Zubas
was for the Clippers. And I think that Murray, despite
the fact that he's facing a whole bunch of talented guards,
(23:44):
a whole bunch of elite defensive guards. He can get
free to his spots as well, depending on how he
reads the floor, how he creates space. The Nuggets are
just such a smart, cerebral team that they're going to
be able to create open shops. It's going to be
about hitting them. It's going to be about operating at
the right moments. Russ shot one of five from three
of his last game, Christian shot one of four. I
(24:05):
think Michael Porter was oh of three or so. Denver
can get better production from the perimeter from those guys,
and they're going to have to win those games. You
cannot miss that opportunity when those guys get their shots.
It's why it was such a wild game one that
the thunder were not able to win because they got
it from Cruso, they got it from Blue Dorth, they
got it from a lot of their guys, so they
(24:26):
needed to take advantage and Denver was still able to
steal it.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Is it safe to say that looking at this series
and moving forward that with all the talent that the
Nuggets have with Jamal and what we've seen, what Aaron
going to do as far as being clutch and Nikola
yulk as we know it is, it's safe to say
that Russell Westbrook it's kind of that wild card, and
(24:51):
you need him to be kind of like that wild thing,
even though we know that sometimes he can turn the
ball over. Because I was all going to be and
as we were leading into the show and I said, well,
Ben had to be home like a lot of Nuggas
fans biting their nails when Christan Brown got the rebound
through the outlet to Russell and he's up the court
(25:11):
and everyone's probably thinking, you know, was he going to
turn the ball or was he going to make the
right decision? But I think that he can be a wildcard.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
What do you say?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
I think it's a great call. I think that. I mean,
that's that's kind of apparent for wild cards, right. You
never know exactly what you're going to get, but if
you get the good side of the wild cards, then
it could flip the game. And that's exactly what happened
with Russ yesterday. He had a big third quarter, especially
made a couple of land ones, hit a three, did
a lot of great things. He's one of those guys
(25:43):
and I've compared them to Bruce Brown. For the entire season,
Denver has needed that version of him to step up
off the bench. For much of the regular season, Russ
was really struggling. He was actually better when he was
in the starting lineup, But now he's starting to find
some comfort and because everybody's just playing playoff minutes, there's
not a lot of full bench lineups that he has
(26:04):
to deal with trying to figure out how to navigate
these different things. So Denver, because Jokic is going to
be out there for almost that entire time, Murray's going
to be out there for almost that entire time, Gordon Porter,
Christian Brown. Russ is now looking better and kind of
feeding off of those guys and just doing what the
team needs in concert with what the other guys are doing.
So it's been great to watch. It's exactly what they
(26:24):
brought him in to do.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Is this bench play sustainable because I mean, you look
at the Nuggets and their bench is really two guys.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I mean, Strawthor got a few minutes, but their bench
is two guys.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You look at it, okay see, and they're a legit
nine deep basketball team.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Even at a tenth guy gets some minutes last night.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Is this sustainable for a team that just came off
a seven game series and is up against the team
that is coming off a sweep.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I don't know. I think that we've seen Denver rise
to the occasion before. I think for Jokic is sustainable
and for the other guys that's going to be a
game by game basis based off of how they play.
Jamal Murray was fine in this game. He could have
been way better. I thought he was making some good plays,
but not necessarily transcendent or anything. Aaron Gordon was really
(27:15):
good in this game. So they got the Jokic game.
They got the Aaron Gordon game, especially with the game
winning three. They did not get a great Michael Porter game.
Michael Porter now has to be the one to step
up in the next one because he should be a
little bit more fresh. He only played twenty four minutes.
But yeah, like with the bench playing as short of
minutes as they are, Russell Westbrook is just soaking up
a lot of that. He's got thirty minutes in this
(27:37):
last game. Sayton Watson's at fifteen, I think that he
could play more. He was minus twenty two in the game,
but I still think that his minutes were actually pretty good,
especially a defensive production. So there's a lot to like
from those two guys. But yeah, you're right, it's gonna
be hard to win with a seven and a half
man rotation. It's been done before. Usually teams kind of
(27:58):
go to that eight and a half manner rotation by
this point. Okay, he's abnormal in that regard, But I
still think that Denver Will probably gets hired. But will
they get hired sooner than there they get through the series?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
You know, are we seeing a different version of Nicola
Jokis And the reason I say that is that usually
we're used to seeing him do his thing on the court,
but just be really silent. But over the past two
series I've seen when they pan to the sideline, it
seems like Nicola is being more of a leader. He's
being more vocals. He's instructing guys, He's telling them to
(28:35):
do certain things. Are we seeing a different level of
Nicola that we didn't see before that goes beyond what
his efforts are on the court.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I think that the Yokic coaching aspect of this, it's
a little bit heightened because of the coaching change, just
because I think Adaman is asking him and wanting him
to do it even more than he had been doing.
But it is something that he's done in previously, but
he is much more comfortable sharing his voice. When you're
a three time MVP who could have been four, could
(29:06):
have been five if this race had gone his way,
then I think you gain a little bit of confidence
in yourself. He's been in this league for ten years,
You've had a lot of opportunities to see the floor.
He's seeing it and now he's sharing it with his team,
and I do think that it's great for the Nuggets
because so many of the greats have their leaders on
(29:28):
the floor. They are leaders, They're vocal, they are competitive,
they're communicative. They find ways to hold people accountable, and
that's really the key word. I would say, only people accountable.
In a situation where Denver they didn't really hold themselves
accountable for the first seventy nine games of this season
and got the coach and the jam fired as a result.
It's not entirely their fault, but like I do think
(29:51):
that if things go a little bit smoother on the court,
then you might see Michael Malone and Calvin Bo's still here.
So it's interesting to think about how you Kitch has
now activated that side of himself after the head coaching change.
But I do think that that's part of it, getting
out from under Michael Malone, his only coach that he's
ever had in the NBA. Now it's activated him and
(30:13):
put him into a situation where he feels like he's
required to do this.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
It's not just additive that with Ryan Blackburn from Mile
High Sports. You know, Michael Porter Junior kind of been
a liability on the offensive end post injury. If they
did if they can't get his scoring back, where does
that Where does that scoring come from?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
What is the X factor going forward?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I think they will get it back for what it's worth.
I think this is one where he looked really tired,
really fatigued, and not just physically but mentally. I was
I was wondering about the decisions that he was making.
Once he catches up in the series, I think he'll
have some games. But if not him, You're you're going
to see Russell Westbrook step into that spot very frequently.
You're going to see Peyton Watson step into that spot.
(30:55):
Maybe not as frequently, but occasionally so. But Denver doesn't
have that many answers. To be honest, if julians father
got a little bit of time, but I don't expect
him to play much more than six to eight minutes
every game in this series. I kind of think that
Denver's was gonna have to live with it. They're gonna
have to trust Michael Porter to figure some stuff out,
and frankly, I'm okay with that because one, the other
(31:17):
options are not exactly stellar, but two, Michael Porter has
stepped up in big moments throughout the first round, throughout
last year's playoffs, and throughout the championship ron So I
think you give him an opportunity to continue to figure
things out. If it's pretty clear that he's not the
right fit for it, then I mean, already he played
twenty four minutes in this game. Russell Westbrook played more
(31:39):
than him. Maybe they changed the starting lineup, but I
kind of think they're just going to stick it out.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, it's kind of the way it sounds.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Talk with Ryan Blackburn at NBA Blackburn on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
He's over there at Mile High Sports. Check them out, Ryan.
We appreciate the time.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Thanks man thinks nick yep, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Ryan Blackburn had to be a blackburn on the Twitter.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
You look at the box score from that game, if
you didn't watch it, you would almost not believe that
the Nuggets won just based on looking at that. I mean,
there wasn't exactly a game where they were shooting lights out.
It wasn't exactly a game that they had a diversity
of scoring, you know, options, as far as that kind
of stuff goes. It just it looked like a game
in which, if you just look at again the numbers,
(32:23):
it looked like a game in which Oka See probably won,
but you got forty two out of Yoki and those
twenty two rebounds were huge. I will say. The thing
to me that that sort of jumped out was the rebounding.
The Nuggets just out rebounded okay see, y'all rebounded it
by twenty second chances are huge.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, that's kind of what okay see kind of looked
at as to why they lost the game, those second
chance points, and whether it's offensive rebounds defensive rebounds. When
the ball comes off the rim and you got to
you got to take it and get out in transition,
that's kind of where you are right now as a team.
I don't and I don't care which team you are
(33:03):
still in the playoffs, but you have to dominate.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
On the boards.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
And if you don't, and I'll say, let me back
in for a second, I would hate to look at
the box score and see the team dominate the boards
and say that that team lost.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I don't think I've ever seen that take place. I
could be mistaken, but that is pure effort that that's
kind of one too. And even though the Okac they're
the younger team, may split the regular season with the
Nuggets and they had a longer layoff than the Nuggets,
maybe going to that game seven really helped the Nuggets
(33:39):
that hunger was still there for them and they performed
that way because at the beginning of the game, you look,
you like, going into the second quarter, you think, like
the way that Okac was knocking down shots consistently and
forcing those turnovers, like it was going to be a
larger deficit than what it ended up being.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
And that's one way that goes.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I know he's probably telling the guys, look, when we
look at the turnovers, we had eighteen, they had nine, right,
and then you're giving up twenty three points of the turnovers.
That's not going to win you the ball game. And
luckily it just seemed as though OKAC being the team
that rested the longest, it seemed as though that they
(34:20):
and I could be wrong, like they kind of ran
out of that invisible juice, that energy that they had
at the very beginning because they had allowed the Nuggets
to climb back into the game.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Certainly did.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I mean the in the second half they got outscored
by the Nuggets in the five and the third, they
got outscored by seven in the fourth, and that was
the difference in that game.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I mean, it was closer.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
The second quarter was all okay see and then they
just kind of ran out of gas. After that, it
was just chipping away, chip away, chip away. So we'll
get a chance to break down that a little bit
more as well as I want to get to some
of the the cu stuff going onst your door to
the pros, all that kind of stuff here was in
the Broncos Counry to night right here on Kawa
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