05-30-24 Hour 2 of Broncos Country Tonight

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to it Broncos Country Tonight,but with all Brian, Dick, Ferguson,
Grant Smith, thanks to Hall ofFamer Steve Atwater for joining us in
the last hour. You missed anyof that, you always go to Broncos
County Night dot com, slash podcastor where we get your podcast with this
Apple iTunes, Spotify, totally freeand awesome my Heart Radio app where you
can also get to take it forGranted podcast which graced our airwaves back on

(00:20):
Memorial Day. Finally got a chanceto listen to a little bit of the
interview with Grant Dave Logan, Welldone, young man, Well thank you.
It was a lot of fun chattingwith Dave and got a lot of
good feedback from texters and emails,so it was a lot of fun to
sit down with Dave and you guyshave both been on it before. So
if anyone wants to find it,like you said, free and totally awesome,
my Heart Radio app and Jess goback and search the episodes for David

(00:43):
Smith, Orsen and Nick Ferguson.There you go. I will say this
give an ac for getting people toopen up like getting people today and this
is something I talked about with youknow, with Dave Tepper when he took
over, when he took over hisprogram director, was one of the things
that I wish I had was abetter interview skills of getting people to open
up, Like when we're in person, I can get guys to laugh and

(01:03):
you know, and kind of makeit conversational. But what are the toolkit
skills that I've always wanted that Ifeel like that I lack at times.
And we'll get back to Broncos stufffor a second. Is the ability to
and just get people to open up. And you see people who have that
knack. Rich Eisen Scott at HowardStern has it, whatever you think of
his politics. Joe Rogan has it, and you know, people just open
up on their show. He knowshow to kind of lead the question a

(01:25):
little bit and then let the guestskind of do the thing. And I
sort of suck at that. Soit's a skill trying to learn. But
I will say I noticed it inother people and grant you you very much
have that skill. Yeah. Ihad the punk rock skater guy that's also
an author on this week's episode andgot him crying about his dad in the
episode. There we go. Yeah, point, so there you go.

(01:46):
I it's just one of those skills. I'm jealous of people that have and
you very much have it, sir, So I appreciate the kind words five
six, six, nine zeros oftext line, Nick, you were out
of ota is today. I didn'tnot get a chance to make it down
this week as opposed to last week. What did you notice of this week's
OTAs well? The team is very, very young, and with that you

(02:09):
think inexperience right away. I lookat it a little differently because there's an
optimistic viewpoint when I look at thisteam, because they have an opportunity to
grow together. And with young guys, it's like you don't know what you
don't know, So the world isyour oyster and every opportunity seems available to

(02:31):
you. And for this group,I look at it the same way because
there was a certain level of enthusiasmthroughout the entire practice that I haven't seen
around here in years. And youknow, like a sense of urgency or
enthusiasm. What do you mean?It's like, man, like, you

(02:53):
know, every every single year andthe off season, the idea is that
hope springs eternal. Everyone thinks thatthey have an opportunity. Until you start
playing games in real life, youdon't. But this group seems like they're
happy to be together, that they'rehappy that there is a different page or
the page has been turned. Notto say that that is something negative against

(03:14):
against Russell or any of the guyswho are not here, but it's just
the fact that it's different. Yousee a lot of guys who were in
backup positions now being forced to beleaders and you get the chance to watch
those guys firsthand assume that leadership roleand figure out who can handle it or
not. It feels like you're talkingabout somebody specific here, And if I

(03:35):
had to venture a guest based onpeople I talked to today, might that
be PJ. Locke. No,No, it's not defined to one guy
because there's more communication going on atpractice. They're like usually at this time
of the year, especially on thedefensive side of the ball, there's a
lot of trash off, right,but there is kind of like a rejuvenation

(03:59):
with a lot of guys on thefield because you have more guys on the
field now who didn't really have alot of that playing time. It's not
just PJ. It's other guys,and you know, being an alumni here
of the Broncos organization, man,I love seeing it. Even Steve Foley
when he got to the podium,he even brought that up himself when he

(04:20):
talked about there seems to be thiskind of new energy, this new vibe,
and regardless of what the end ofthe season looks like for me,
I like to see that. Youwant to see that there's some hungry guys
who are now getting their opportunity.I mean think about you know, like

(04:41):
Riley Moss. We haven't seen Rileyin a while on the defensive side.
Yeah, ye, little ringed uptoday, But that's a guy right there
who once again I can't wait tosee what happens when he gets on the
field. Franklin, I want tosee him. Then you're looking at Marvin
Mamms, who had I guess thecatch if you want to say, of

(05:02):
Altis at the big bomb from theMatrich still. Yes, that we were
able to see from immediate standpoint.So there's a lot of young guys who
are going to be stepping up intoleadership roles that we've never seen before.
It is it's a it's a newBroncos team in a lot of ways.
Justin Simmons and Kareem Jackson, whohave been in the face of the Broncos

(05:23):
post Von Miller, aren't here anymore. You know. Cortlin Sutton's not even
at these and he's been the offensivestall Ward. I mean, I guess
you could say Garrett Bowles has beenaround a long time, but he hasn't
never really been the face of anything. So yeah, I mean, Russell
Wilson is gone, k Jack's gone, Simmons is gone, Courtland's holding out
or skipping OTA's, I guess isa better way to phrase that. You

(05:45):
know it is. It is theopportunity for a young guys, a lot
of young guys to come in andseize those jobs. And at the safety
position, there is one of thosespots open. I mean, both spots
are technically open, but I thinkBrandon Jones, by virtue of the money,
is probably a favorite to win oneof those safety spots. I think
PJL win the other one, andKyden'll kind of wrote Hay through, but
we'll see how that shakes out.There is an opportunity to earn the second
corner spot on the outside. Yougot patser Tana one spot, Jaquan is

(06:06):
going to take the slot, butthat other spot it's open, so up
for grats because once again you said, okay, well, is that going
to be Riley? Is that goingto be the Mary mathis? You really
don't know. But it's the levelwalls. You never know. That's that's
another guy who is out there competing, but you don't know who's going to
merge that guy once the team startedputting the final roster together. But this

(06:30):
is the one thing that I loveabout this time of the year, especially
the Broncos having a young team,and I know it doesn't look great.
I saw something on social media orPro Football Folcus said that the Broncos had
one of the worst rosters right Andin that evaluation, it is probably because
you're looking at the veteran, youknow, saying that they don't have a
lot of veteran leadership at certain positions. And I get that, but some

(06:53):
of the teams that have made runsin the past, this is how they
started. They're so inexperienced or they'reyoung enough that they don't know what they
don't know, and all you getfilled with is that confidence from going out
and doing the right things. Andhere's the other thing. Okay, you
you grow together, and what thatmeans is that you're gonna lose together.
But the biggest thing is you wintogether. But having that continuity that is

(07:16):
building over the next two, three, four years down the road, you
hope that it pays dividends, andit could pay dividends for the team because
you have all these guys playing together, which is hard to do because remember,
at the end of the day,this isn't golf, this is still
a team sport. Yeah, fivesix sixty nine zeros A text line the
two one four thank you for justtalking sports today. Yeah, you know,

(07:39):
we appreciate that U. The semnone four and I had to read
this one. Is PJ Locke Thisgeneration's Nick Ferk. I'll say yes.
The reason I'll say yes because I'vehad this conversation with PJ before and telling
him both he and Tournayo. Don'tget settled into your role right. Yes,

(08:03):
some guys come into the league andthey're just happy to be there right
based on how you got them.Don't be one of those guys. Be
thankful for the position that you're in, but don't be comfortable with where you
are right because I told him,I said, I've been where you are.
David Bruden has been where you arebecause what happens is like a movie.
You get ty cast. It's sogood as special teams and you can

(08:26):
back up both positions that you're valuable, but you're not valuable enough that you're
considered to be a start. Well, we can put this in terms that
anyone who listens to this show canunderstand. Don't be Joey Fattone justin til
Joton was just happy to be there. Jeff timerlate went a career in this
business. Hey, hey, listen, I know we get into this whole
thing about Batman and Robin, andRobin doesn't give a lot of you know,

(08:48):
praise to Batman. Yes, wellyou know it's Batman one and Batman
two, right, because sometimes thesidekick saves the guy who always gets all
the praise. And that's the wholething. Getting out of that mindset of
you don't have to settle with beingthe backup or the sidekick. You can
be Batman. I'm not. I'mnot the backup, I'm the future starter.

(09:11):
There you go, And that's theway that I've said the p J
he's got. He has to lookat it. And right now, did
we know two years ago that thingswill work out the way that they have?
No, But he's he's right inthe position that I was in.
But in my in my spot,there wasn't a guy being shipped off.
It was a guy that got injured. And once you grab the brass rings,

(09:35):
you know what it's like. AndI know you you definitely can speak
to it. And I know that, so kild Grant. It's like growing
up eating Ramen noodles and you hadthat first steak, no matter who who
purchased it for you, we can'tgo back to Romen. It's hard,
well done stake. Yes, yes, yes, you can't go back even

(09:56):
if it's well done and you putsteak sauce on no catch up, we
can't go back. I mean that'sexactly it. And and yeah, as
far as the Batman think goes,I'm probably John Paul Valley. Okay,
And for those of you who don'tget that reference, After Baine breaks Batman's
back, this hyper violent guy takesover, puts his armor suit together,
and eventually he goes so insane thatBatman's like, dude, you're too rough.

(10:16):
I gotta kick you out. Hewould have broke the back and take
back over the Batman think I'm probablythat guy. But to Batman, that's
how we do around the show fivesix, six, nine zeros A text
line, I don't want bo Nicksto be the face of the team.
Give me the belly. That's fromseven one to four. The belly,
Yeah, the face of the AndI sort of get where he's coming from
because what he's I think what he'strying to say there is he wants the
the identity of the Broncos to bepunching the mountain, not the quarterback.

(10:39):
You know, hey, this isour cool quote, but the offensive line.
But usually isn't that the case,even though the quarterback gets all the
praise. When you look at theteam and say, the level of toughness
you're thinking about based on the abilityto stop the run and the ability to
run the ball, yeah, Iwill mind do that. But I think
what he's referring to more is probablythe media, the presentation, you know,

(11:01):
kind of thing like you know whatit is when when I'm trying to
think of the best way to dothis. The Patriots, Tom Brady was
the face of the Patriots. ButDante Scarnekia had that line doing things that
you know, yes, that thatwould hurt you, and they were the
real kind of you know, there'san identity to it, I guess,
and maybe if you're for instance,Baltimore where Lamar Jackson and all that kind

(11:22):
of stuff, and we appreciate that. But the real secret there is the
fact that that offensive line is absolutelygoing to mul you. Well, yeah,
that's kind of the mindset and theway. The way that I look
at is the offensive line and thedefensive line. Those are your blue collar
guys. The white collar guy that'syour quarterback, right he's out there front,

(11:46):
kissing baby, shaking hands and doingall those types of things. But
when you talk about the individuals doingthe crime work, the dirty work that
no one wants to do, that'sthe offensive line. That's the defensive line.
That's where you said the temple likeplaying here for the different and they
even giving practice and being on thefield with Alex Gibbs and Ryan Evers was
standing next to me today and therewas the passing game coordinator. His names

(12:11):
will lose me right now, buthearing him Karmack, No, no,
no, no, no, no, it wasn't Pecarmike. I think if
someone else they come back to me. But the whole idea was you heard
his voice a lot during practice,and the first thing it took me back
to I was like, Wow,that reminds me of Alex Gibbs because gamers

(12:31):
will coach people he don't even coach, right, because that's how enthusiastic he
was about the game of football.And in this instance, this is where
the heart and soul of your teamlies. It's in your offensive line being
able to run the ball, whichthe Broncos didn't do effectively last year.
But being able to run the ballwhen teams know you're going to do it.

(12:54):
See, that's how you know youare effective, and you are efficient
when your opponents are constantly on theground and before the game even starts they
go to the referee saying, heyman, those guys are dirty. That's
how you know that you're doing businesswhen they go to the reps they're dirty.
Trust me. In practice, Idid you have any reason as a

(13:20):
as the altercation because toruth Be toldour offensive line with Tom nailing those guys,
they were grimy. They were reallygrinding. You love them being your
teammates, but you hated to practiceand play against them, right because you
knew they were gonna the business manwhen holding shoving you, pushing you after

(13:41):
the play and you're just like,Doe, we're on the same line.
But then when it happens in thegame and they do it to someone else,
you're like, yes, I knowwhat that is. I don't know
why they're doing that. Interesting quotestoday from Sean Bayton. The Chiefs are
thinking about letting safety Justin handle kickoffsin order to keep Harrison Butker from having

(14:05):
to make tackles on kickoff Justin Reid, who has some experience kicking a little
bit as far as that goes,So you know, there's just a Sean
Payton came out and pushed back againstthat today, saying, I don't want
every one out of every four goingto the forty yard line because he kicked
it out of bounds, but justbecause he's in there to make a tackle.
So he talks about, you know, seeing a lot of change in
the kickoffs and all that kind ofstuff. But nineteen to twenty players standing

(14:26):
still after the kick until it's caughtor touched the ground. They're trying to
practice all that. Do you Italked to an NFL coach a couple of
weeks ago who said, if you'rea fringe linebacker, safety, a practice
squad guy, practice your kickoffs becauseyou could, you know, having an
extra tackle rut, there could bea big thing. Do you think that
that's really a thing or no?Yes, I do, because you've seen

(14:48):
in years pass when a guy getspast that first the second wave and the
kicker is the only guy left.And I've seen some bad efforts trying to
bring it. I mean the Bridgewatertype efforts. But you know what I
mean. Everybody knows what I mean. That's different. Though everybody knows that's

(15:09):
different. Teddy's a quarterback. II don't expect quarterbacks and throwing the options
and try to make the tackles.I would discourage that your fault. No,
No, you throwing this option.You tried to jump in and make
a tackle and do you separate yourshoulder. It's your fault. They got
the ball, stop it. That'sthe same that was absolutely drilled into me.

(15:31):
If you're gonna turn it over,like I played the position, if
you're gonna turn it over, youbetter go get it you would rather have
them return it for a pick sixthan your quarterback try and make the tackle.
Hey, surviving that the day.Okay, you're just saying like that.
Okay, try to stop a picksix, you separate your shoulder or
something worse, and then known asthough you don't have the vible backup.

(15:54):
Then what Andrew Locke probably still bethe Broncos. Well, oh man,
I couldn't look at you. It'sthe iph I didn't try. No,
no, get the hell out ofthe way. Because here's one of the
things like, as defenders, especiallyteams players, there are two people.
We don't get a chance to hitthat often. And when we do,

(16:15):
we're gonna take full advantage of kickerand quarterback. We're gonna go look you
up, We're gonna serve you couldbe like twenty yards away. We're gonna
sprint as fast as we can fromthe right to the left side to try
to get you. Well. Onthe other hand, I as a quarterback,
I don't get the opportunity to dothat, so I'm gonna try it.
Like you, get the hell outof the way. A few quarters.
I think everybody knows what what's gonnalook like if I'm trying to tackle

(16:37):
you a baby giraffe trying to walk, absolutely ridiculous. We have Ryan Michael
coming up Broncos Country tonight. Welcomeback to it, Broncos Country tonight.
Benjamin ol Brighten, Nick Ferguson,Grant Smith here with you. Run right
out to the KA Commons Sparrel hotlineto bring on our good buddy, Ryan
Michael at the Ryan Michael on theTwitter machine. He's contributing right an analystic

(17:00):
the Pro Football Hall of Fame,our unofficial statistician here and now offensive at
defensive analytics with the Barcelona Dragons inthe European Football League. Ryan, how
you doing the seating doing well?Ben Nick? How are you guys doing
pretty well? I got to jumpright into it. I know we were
talking a little bit about the faceof the franchise stuff in the last segment
and not and then we had oneof the Texters who did not want Bo

(17:22):
Nicks to be the immediate face ofthe franchise. What the you know,
what the attitude, what the bellythe offensive lineman? Why do you agree
with that? Well? I thinkin an ideal situation, you want to
have a well rounded football team.So by saying that I don't want him
to be the face of the franchise, It isn't meant to say that I
don't want him to succeed a quarterback. We're all banking on that. But

(17:45):
the reality is that the most successfulquarterbacks in our league are supported by strong
overall teams, and I think lastyear Ben was a perfect example of that.
If you think of the Houston Texans, you think CJ. Stroud,
you think of the Packers, youthink Love ravens Lamar Jackson, Bill's Josh
Allen, and certainly chiefs Patrick Mahones. Would you be surprised to know that

(18:07):
all of the respective defenses that supportedthose quarterbacks ranked higher in points per game
prevented than their quarterbacks ranked offensively inpoints per game sport? That does surprise
me. I did not know thatwell. With that being said, obviously,
the Broncos have a young quarterback andboth Nicks and we haven't had an
opportunity to really see him in livegame action, but there are there's a

(18:30):
lot of enthusiasm that he brings tothis organization. So what you just talked
about, could that be the perfectrecipe for bow Nicks to have success?
To be a quarterback that has Iguess moderate returns, but have a great
defense to help him, I guessmove him forward. That's exactly what you
would hope for, right. Imean, if you look at the trajectory

(18:52):
of what Drew Brees did in NewOrleans, and I have more than once
referred to Bo Nicks as Drew Breeslight and I mean that with great affection
and respect. Breeze put up someMVP caliber seasons, but when he was
paired with some awful defenses, theyfinished seven to nine, didn't really go
anywhere, And towards the end ofhis career, you finally started to see
some stability, not necessarily great defense, but sometimes borderline top ten defense.

(19:17):
And wouldn't you know the Saints werecompeting for Super Bowls every single year during
his final four seasons. So that'sthe recipe for success. It's the success
that you had nick with Jake Plumberduring that two thousand and three to two
thousand and five runs. So I'dvery much like to see the Broncos get
at it this year. We'll getinto Jake Plumber stuff here in just a
second, but you know, wetalked about young quarterback and the success and
building them up. But expecting ayoung quarterback to be the savior of franchise

(19:41):
without supporting him with the tools necessaryto succeed. How dangerous is that?
And can you think of any recentexamples of quarterbacks that were maybe set up
to fail? Absolutely? I meanthere have been a number of quarterbacks taken
at the top of the draft.One of the greatest mysteries is how good
could Kim Ouch had been if hewere drafted to a stable organization. How

(20:03):
good could Barr had been. JoshRosen was somebody I was very, very
high on during his time at UCLA, and he ended up entering two of
the worst situations imaginable. So whenyou think about young quarterbacks who showing success
early, whether it's Joe Flacco,RG three, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff.
Eventually when the Rams figured it out, Carson Wentz, when the Eagles
figured it out, Josh Allen struggled, and then the team rose to the

(20:27):
occasion and the Bills became Super Bowlcontenders every year all the way down.
Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, PatrickMahomes has had the fortune of being supported
by trement to support every year ofhis career. So I'm not trying to
take anything away from any of thosequarterbacks who have all played very well,
very early into their careers. Buthe'd much rather be Patrick Mahomes than Josh
Rosen. Well, yeah, you'reabsolutely right, because you know, Josh

(20:52):
Rosen was at one point perceived tobe a better NFL prospect than Lamar Jackson.
And that makes me thinking about somethingdifferent because when we look at legacy
quarterbacks here for the Denver Broncos,typically there are two quarterbacks that come up,
Peyton Manning and John Elway, Andfor me, that's that upsets me

(21:14):
because there was Jake Plumber area whenmost people kind of forget that. So
what do you think that Jake Plumber'slegacy should be and how he should be
remembered by a Broncos country. Ithink if we reflect back to his run
in Denver specifically, you first haveto reflect upon what he went through in

(21:34):
Arizona. He was a guy whowas taken forty second overall second quarterback in
the nineteen ninety seven NFL Draft,but he wasn't surrounded by strong team support
in Arizona. So there were somestatistical highlights. Hearing sixth in yards per
attempt as a rookie fourth and passingyards is sophomore season with three thousand,
seven hundred and thirty seven yards.To adjust that for a time that would

(21:57):
come later, that would have bequlledfourth eight hundred and twenty seven yards and
twenty twelve. Tom Brady finished fourth. So he put up some decent numbers
in Arizona, but the support wasnever consistent. Got a playoff win in
ninety eight against the Dallas Cowboys andthen lost to the ninety eight Bikeings.
You can knock anybody for losing tothem, and you fast forward right and
you hone in. On his finalyear in Arizona two thousand and two,

(22:19):
he finished thirtieth and passer rating fiftyfive point seven thirty second and adjusted nckyards
per attent. He comes to Denver, he's paired with Mike Shanahan, a
strong running game you and the restof that strong defense, and immediately a
fifth in passer rating ninety one pointtwo, fifth in adjusted net yards per
attenth and if you hone him specificallyon the two thousand and three to two

(22:41):
thousand and five run. I putsome numbers on Twitter last night comparing Jake
Plumber to two mystery quarterbacks, andwhat you'll see as far as efficiency is
the numbers were pretty comparable. JakePlumber actually had the highest adjusted net yards
per attentph rate the quarterback B andquarterback CE where Tom Brady and Drew Brees.
So during that window his time inDenver, how well did he play?

(23:04):
He played at a Brady sh level. And to be honest with you,
Nick, I don't see anything closeto the recognition for just the reality
of how well he played during duringthose years, you had three consecutive double
digit win seasons, three consecutive topten offensive scoring seasons. So when I
think about his legacy in Denver,his star sure shine brightly. It wasn't

(23:29):
a long run, but he burnedbright when he was there, when he
was good, and I think thatsome of his best years in Denver were
quite comfortable to some of John alwaysbest years. Plumber joined the Broncos in
three, went nine to two inhis first season under Mike Shanahan. It
had been a struggle in Arizona pivotsand we see the success in Denver.
What was the difference aside from organizationalI mean it was everything from organization to

(23:55):
coaching, to scheme to roster support. That's why I always say that the
two three to two thousand and fiveBroncos it's one of my favorite eras in
Pro football because you had stability onthe offensive line, as you're saying,
we'd like to build that for Bonix. You had a strong running game every
single year. You had a topten defense, Nick Ferguson, Champ Belly
and the rest of the crew.That is the way ideally you want to

(24:18):
build a winner. That's what wedid around Jake Tummer. And credit to
him because at the quarterback position,the sports marquee position, he delivered year
after year after year, so muchso that if you look at his winning
percentage, then in Denver he hadthirty nine and fifteen. That's seventy two
point two percent winning percentage overall justfor his time there in Denver. That's

(24:41):
a higher winning percentage than Montana hadin San Francisco, than Peyton Manning had
in Indianapolis, Kerry Bradshaw and Pittsburgh, Farvin Green Bay or Troy eight Men
in Dallas. So it was ashort run. But can we give a
little bit of love to the realityof what he accomplished. I wish that
individuals would definitely give run to it, but I think the reason why some

(25:02):
don't, and once again I don'tagree with it, is because on the
teams that we were on, wedidn't bring a Super Bowl title to the
city. But do you think thatthat is something that needs to take place
for any player, whether we're talkingabout Broncos Ring of Fame or we're talking
about Hall of Fame, that needsto take place before the guy's given his

(25:23):
flowers. It depends on who heasks. I mean, that's certainly the
team Bowl every year. But ifyou were to ask me that what you
guys accomplished in two thousand and five, specifically handing Belichick and Brady their first
ever postseason loss, I'm sure youand the rest of the guys in the
locker room would have traded that momentfor a Super Bowl ring. Anybody would.

(25:45):
But I do think it's worth notinghistorically speaking, you know, I
think the Dan Marino, who neverwon a Super Bowl either, certainly first
ballot Hall of Famer arguably the bestto ever play in the condition. He's
also the only person to ever beatthe nineteen eighty five Chicago Bears. And
if you asked, Dan, wouldyou rather have that win against the Bears
in eighty five or the rain,I'm sure you would take the ring five.

(26:06):
Reality is, he's the only oneto ever defeat the nineteen eighty five
Bears in the same way that JakePlumber and the rest of you guys not
off Brady Bellichicking and Patriot's that significantto me, and I wouldn't be discissive
of just how significant that is.Tye with Ryan Michael at the Ryan Michael
on Twitter. What should Jake Plumber'slegacy in Denver b I've often listed him

(26:29):
as the third best quarterback in franchisehistory, behind the course John Lway and
Peyton Manning, but maybe not thethird most celebrated, as Tim Tebow often
gets it for that kind of magicalrun the season before Peyton Manning got here,
even though I you know, mypersonal opinion of him as a quarterback
was probably the opposite of what theresults indicated. What should Jake Plummer's legacy

(26:51):
be? Unquestionably the third greatest quarterbackin Broncos franchise history, and if it
wasn't for the fact that he hadtwo first ballot Hall of Families. Taking
those two spots above him, he'dbe the greatest quarterback in franchise history.
And with all due respect to TinTebow, the offense finished twenty ninth in
that yards per attempt during that run. And so while it was an exciting,

(27:14):
thrilling run, and no one's goingto turn down a playoff win over
Pittsburgh if we're talking on field performance, I put Craig Morton while ahead of
tint Heebo. I had put JakeCutler ahead of tint Eebo, But unquestionably,
Jake Plumber is solidified as the numberthree guy, and I think that
that's pretty remarkable given the rich historyof quarterback playing gender. All Right,
you talked about three quarterbacks, Elway, Manning and Plumber looking at bow Knicks

(27:38):
just kind of spitballing here, justtrying to look at your magic crystal ball
there. Where do you think thatbow Knicks by the end of his career?
What does he fall? Does hefall more Jake Plumber? Does he
fall more of Peyton Manning? Imean, no one's ever going to be
Peyton Manning. And I don't carewho it is who's coming out of Edger

(28:00):
drafted number one overall, whether it'sCaleb Williams, whether it's Arch Fanning down
the line, no one should beput in that class of expectation. I
think those expectations have really helped ruinthe perception of success in the NFL for
number one overall picks or this firstround picks in general. I would say
that if bo Nix is able toproduce anything comparable to what Jake Plumber did

(28:21):
in Denver, that would be aremarkable achievement. So if that's a goal,
I think that's a goal that's worthstriving for, and I wouldn't be
dismissing about it at the end ofthe day. It was interesting the connection
here because it was a Tampa atthe time, and you know, John
Gruden came out here to beg JakePlumber to come out of retirement. We
thought it was going to happen,and of course it ended up not happening.
He goes on to play handball andbe phenomenal at that and then go

(28:45):
on to the other things that he'sgoing on to in life. But what
could Jake Plumber have been? Doyou think with John Gruden? You know,
hard to say, John Gruden certainlyhas a tremendous history of coaching quarterbacks
right all the way from Green Bay, through Oakland and through Tampa Bay.
So I certainly think it would havebeen potential for Jake to continue to play

(29:07):
at the Pro Bowl level that heestablished for himself in Denver. But it
seems to me that, you know, it's a player's personal decision when it's
time to hang them up. Youknow, a lot of people will ask
what would have happened if Thean Marinojoined the Minnesota Vikings, you know,
instead of retiring as a Dolphin.You know, I'm happy that Jake ended
his career with the Denver Broncos.And I think there's just something about the
culture up here in Denver. There'sa reason why Peyton Manning still lives here.

(29:30):
There's a reason why Peyton Manning retiredas a Broncos. So it's not
a bad way to go out.One thing that I've always found very interesting,
and you just hit on it,just ever so subtly, is that
we always talk about quarterbacks. Wejust lift those guys up on a pedestal.
Meanwhile, at the same time,when you talk about quarterbacks efficiency,

(29:52):
we talk about the running backs.We talk about the wide receivers contributing to
that, but why do you thinkwith all that being said, everything still
shifts wars and quarterback as being okay, well, the end all, be
all guy. He is the guy, and everyone talks about him, and
somehow disappointing Cask gets pushed to theside. Leave romanticize the quarterback position because

(30:15):
the reality is it is far andaway the most important position, not just
in pro football, that I wouldargue in all the sports. So there's
very good reason for why it getsas much attention as it does. But
as we've discussed throughout the months,mate, I mean, the quarterback is
virtunately impossible for a quarterback to havesuccess without being surrounded by strong supports to

(30:37):
whoever it is that you appreciate theleague. Whether it's a Patrick Mahomes or
a Josh Allen or Lamara Jackson,their success is nowhere near possible without having
tremendous support from not just offensive teammates, but as I said earlier, defensive
teammates. So for as much asI acknowledge and give credit for what a
lot of the great one quarterbacks aredoing in the NFL, now you know,

(31:00):
I think CJ. Stroud is actuallya great example because he had as
good of a rookie season as anybodyhas had over last decade, and yet
his defense still ranked higher in preventingpoints when Stroud and the offense did in
producing points. And you don't hearanything said about Houston's defense. So I
think it should just be a wakeup call to anybody listening. Anybody's a

(31:21):
fan of pro football, glorifire quarterback. Love your quarterback if he's great,
but you still got to open thatdoor to recognizing the heart of this team.
Put in upfront on the offensive line, in the backfield, the guy's
catching passes, everyone, defense,special teams, coaching, it's the opening
team sport tuger Ryan Michael at theRyan Michael on Twitter. Last one for

(31:41):
me, what do you think isthe number one thing a young quarterback needs
to succeed early? Can I giveyou a split with two different answers here,
Fela. Yeah, the first thoughtthat comes to mind is coaching,
and so we are certainly hoping tosee Sean Payton channel the offensive genius he

(32:01):
displayed in New Orleans and passed thatdown to bow Knicks and the rest of
the guys, But I would arguewith stable, strong defense, it's just
as important. And if you lookto say, even the Kansas City Chiefs
Super Bowl run this year, okay, the defense held upon it's the fifteen
point eight points per game. I'mnot going to overlook the fact that Patrick

(32:21):
Mahomes was brilliant in the end ofthat Super Bowl. But it's worth noting
that the twenty twenty three Jets scorefifteen point eight points per game. So
if you have a top ten defense, Kansas City had the second rate scoring
defense in the league, it's goingto make any quarterbacks job infinitely easier.
Ask Rock Party. So I don'tknow how to choose between the stupid.

(32:42):
You definitely want to have strong coachingfrom the head coach and offensive coordinator,
but definitely strength on the defensive sideof the ball for sure. Well,
we appreciate it, Ryan Michael atthe Ryan Michael on Twitter, look forward
to chatting with you again next week. Sounds good, guys from me on
Ryan Mike, offensive defensive analytics forthe Barcelona Dragons, contributed to the Pro
Football Hall of Fame. Always enjoyhaving him on the show talking about his

(33:07):
Broncos spotlight. This week with JakePlumber, who again I always viewed as
criminally underrated, also a former guestof the Taking It for Granted Podcast,
You can find out a free andtotally awesome my Heart Radio. Well wait
a minute, which one Jake Clubberor Ryan Michael are both Jake Plumber?
Okay, all right, but oneday maybe Brian might bring Yes, well
speak wide in there. That's greatjob by you. Yes. Now,

(33:30):
I've had an opportunity to be aroundJake for a number of years. But
in your interview would Take It forGranted podcast? What did you come away
from the interview about Jake? Thathe is a genuine human being? Uh,
he is exactly as he has advertiseshimself. He's true to himself whether

(33:51):
people like it or not, whichI really appreciate in someone. And he's
just a great dude that you wouldlove to hang out with and drink a
beer with or maybe I have acouple of mushrooms. I will say that
he is. The first interview thatI'd ever did on the air was with
Jake Plumber and he costs twice inthe first fifteen seconds. Well, he
costs plenty of podcast. Yeah,it was. It was a good friend

(34:14):
Marty with Taylor to he is,you know, ready to get this,
you know, bleep show start huJake, We're live on the air.
Oh bleep. I'm sorry guy,Yeah, he was. But he's unapologetically
himself and I would say that thatis that is probably one of his greatest
strengths. That he is. Uh, he is one of the most authentic
human beings I've ever had the opportunityto get a chance to talk to when

(34:34):
we come back, a chance toGeorge Shorey from Pro Football Focus checking with
him has been uh, has beentoo long. We'll have to get his
updates on Drew Locke there in NewYork and whether or not Skyline Chili is
really worth it. Brocous Country Night