Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome into it Rockies edition, because actually here's back there
behind the glass we yesterday got into. Uh Zach, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How you feel about this. I don't want to labor
the pointer.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Spent so much time on it today, but I didn't
want to get someone else's opinion real quick. The punt
Lebroncos did back to the Chargers with five p fifteen
to go at fourth and a half a yard.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Where did you come down on that decision?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I think now I'm with you. The numbers say they
should have gone for it. I think there's something to
be said for.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
In that moment. In that game, you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Have an offensive success rate of twenty five percent, meaning
you're staying ahead of the sticks just twenty five percent
of the time.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You were not really able to get.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Those hard yards in the run game, or we're throwing
the ball or doing anything.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Really, man, I it's tough.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
With the element of hindsight, it's hard not to say,
go for it, get the one yard and make it
harder on Justin Herbert. The defense was exhausted, you weren't
to get a stop there.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And the numbers back it up.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I guess I leaned that way, but I don't have
a super strong preference. I think it was fine to
punt given how the game had gone up to that point.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
All right, I am yeah, I am completely on the
other side of that, but I always like to solicit
other people's opinions and get their opinions on it as well.
By the way, the Broncos did something finally that I've
been requesting them to do for a while, and yesterday
hired a data scientist, may Opputinsubii, who was previously with
(01:31):
the League Office, started yesterday with the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And hopefully he will be a kind of guy who can.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Give voice to those sort of moments of where the
math says something that doesn't seem like common sense, and
I'm hoping that that will resonate throughout. We'll see, We'll
see what impact he's able to have with the Denver
Broncos overall. One of the things that I wanted to
talk about today is the Broncos are doing kickoffs wrong.
In fact, most of the league is doing kickoffs wrong
(01:58):
right now with new kickoff rules and everything else.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
There are two teams in the league that are adamantly.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And very concisely going about doing kicking the right way.
One of those teams is not very good, but they
are doing it the right way. The other is good.
And those two teams are the Carolina Panthers and the
Los Angeles Rams. I was gonna guess the Ram one
of them. They did a great job this week. They
are both knuckleball squid kicking the ball into the setup zone.
(02:27):
The average field position for opponents for those two teams
each off the kickoff is the twenty one yard line.
No other team is below twenty five. The Falcons are next,
It's like twenty six, the twenty six yard line. The
Bronco is the fifth worst team in the league at
like thirty one yard line. There's no The original designs
when Sam Schwartzen designed this kickoff for the XFL, had
(02:50):
rules about that kind of stuff. Some guardrails for that
that you got it out at the forty if it
went out of bounds or on these other things to
encourage fielding of the kickoff, but to keep people from
exploiting it in the way that the Rams and the
Panthers are right now. The Broncos should absolutely be doing
the same thing. Knuckleball kicked that into the setup zone.
There's no there's no reason not to at this point,
(03:11):
and the Broncos having the allowing the fifth worst starting
field position off the kickoff, each yard is one percent
year one percent more likely to score. Right, So the
Broncos are giving opponents a ten percent better chance to
score every drive than the Panthers and the Rams just
by the way they're kicking off. There's another it's just
math moment.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I fully agree with you on this. I'll start there.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
It's been something I've been wondering all season long. I
think we should be wildly critical of teams regularly kicking touchbacks.
If it happens by mistake, that's one thing, But now
it's about the equivalent of kicking the ball abount, so
that that's a huge problem. You shouldn't also be lobbing
the ball up there and giving these teams all this
time to set up their return because you can't move
(03:56):
until they until the ball touches the ground or they
may contact with it, and so you're giving the return
team a huge advantage.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I've been puzzled by this the whole time.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Now, to play Devil's advocate, I will say, and I
forget which team did it, but we have seen teams
burned trying to do a squib kick, maybe late in
the game or something, and they dirt it a little
too short, it lands in the I forget what it's
called the no no zone for lack of a better word,
and as a result, the teams go all the way
out to the forty yard line. If it's like a
(04:25):
kickoff out of bounds, right, I guess it's only a
five yard difference from the touchback. But do you think
maybe that's the reason we're seeing less team.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That's what's telling me that your kicker isn't skilled enough
to do it, and you need a new kicker, you know,
or you need somebody who can kick it in that way.
To me, you should be training your kicker, your field
goal kicker shouldn't be doing this anyway. You should be
having a safety or some sort of tackling specialist who
can just kick knuckleballs into the setup zone and that's it.
And we've got an additional tackler out there on the
field and you're putting the ball. Oh, they only have
(04:53):
to specialize in that one thing, right, And so that
that to me is sort of doing yourself a bit
of a disservice.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
By doing so.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
The Chiefs they think experimented with it with who they
have read. I think it was Yeah, that was back
there doing that kind of stuff. That's basically what you
need to do. You need to go out and find
a linebacker or a safety who's maybe a down roster
guy who wouldn't otherwise make a roster and go make
him that guy who'd be your fifth safety or whatever
that you can have on the rusher who can handle
doing that as well as you know, kicking it off,
(05:22):
and make yourself in value. If you're a safety or
a linebacker right now, you should be practicing this.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And with the International Pathway Program rules, that's where my
brain immediately went because if you get one of these
Europeans over we can find a rugby ball. Go find
a rugby player or awesome or whatever, get him over here,
and they don't have to be great, just be like, hey,
learn how to be a special teams linebacker for it.
It's like he's like, we don't need you being in
every down defensive guy. Make it so we can trust
you to like cover punts as well as do this
(05:49):
kickoff thing, and you're made. And also with the International
Pathway Program rules that you can have them on your
practice squad without it eating up a practice squad rosters.
So even if they aren't ready to go right out
of the gate in international player is one where you
could be patient developing that for a year or two
and then be ready to go to me It seems
(06:11):
like an absolute no brainer, but you go, you go,
look at the look at the stats on this that
tweeted amount and it is it's mind blowing.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I mean, because this is one of these things that's
a huge advantage in you know, in the game, and
they often forgotten part of the game, the special teams component,
especially this this day and age, where you can give
yourself another edge, and the Broncos are not doing that.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
In fact, we're failing.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
We're fifth worst, you know, we're in in uh in
the NFL in terms of allowing starting field positions. So
it's one of those things where I just I struggle
as I sit here and and I look at this
when I noticed that one of the two teams that
is doing this, the Los Angeles Rams. You'll never guess
(06:54):
who their assistant special teams coaches, Benkwika, the guy we
just got rid of to bring in the guy who's
got us a fifth worst right now.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And he did a good job last year. To me,
I think that's the biggest fair point of Sean Payton
criticism right now.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And I think there's plenty of shortcomings, plenty of things
to what I'm accountable for. But I mean, this is
a self inflicted error that you really had no there
was no reason to do it. The special teams were
great last year, some of the better Broncos special teams
of the past decade. Darren Rizzy had a great resume,
but this wasn't a move you had to make.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And a little the football.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Gods are serving up some karma to the Broncos now
where you fired this guy for no reason that sensibly
no reason, and now you're stuck with Frankly a problematic
special teams unit. And it's kind of remarkable it's been
as problematic as it is because I think Mims looks
like he's doing a great job returning the ball, Crosshaws
bounced back after a rough preseason, he's doing a great
(07:54):
job punting. And in spite of those two players doing
such a good job, it's still, like you said, bottom five,
bottom ten specialty scrim Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's you know, this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
We've had some issues on special teams, whether it's uh,
you know, blocking kicks and getting penalties, whether it's it's
in the The one thing we're doing okay is the
return game.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
We're fine with the return game.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But everything else on special teams has largely been a
bit disappointing this year. And that's a hidden component in
a game that is truly a game of inches, a
game of margins, and no one knows that better than
the Denver Broncos. After the last two games, here's an
area where we could be picking up an advantage, and
I'm strongly advocating for the Broncos to get out there
(08:34):
start knuckleball kicking, kicking into the setup zone immediately because
this is is yielding huge results right now for two
teams that frankly Caroline bad so they you know, they
ain't every edge you can.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Get, but the rams are not bad.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I would, I would suspect that just about anybody
would put Sean McVay and his mind up there with
just about anybody.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
They're doing it too. You could be the.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Third team to you know, to get on the bandwagon
here and hope go from fifth worst opponents starting field
position to top three.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And talking about the value of special teams, I always
think about the twenty ten Chargers, who were number one
in offense, number one in defense, number thirty two in
special teams, and they missed the playoffs. You know, I
can't think of many other teams in NFL history that
have had the top offense and top defense in a
single year.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Any other teams that come close to.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
That, like the eighty five Bears or eighty nine nine Ers.
We consider some of the greatest teams ever. And the
Chargers didn't even make the playoffs because of how bad
their special teams were. And I think that's relevant when
you look at a Broncos team that kind of squeaked
in last year with a great special teams unit, and
now what happens if you take that great special teams
unit make it bad or even subpar with the close
(09:46):
margins the Broncos had last year.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Are you now on the outside looking in? Yeah, I just.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Anything that can increase the margins of victory for you.
I'm all four right, and this is one of those
no brainers. There's no downside to doing this, none, There's
only upside here, and it's it's bearing itself out.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Through three weeks. It's it's making a.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Five to ten yard field starting field position difference in
the way that they're attacking this. So just just something
that that's the other thing that's been grinding my gears,
besides the uh, the the the.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Fourth down call to punt the ball away.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It's just I just feel like there are times where
coaches go with what they consider to be conventional wisdom
rather than what is actually the smart thing to do.
And in this particular case that this is not a
conventional wisdom thing.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
This quid kick it every play. It's just a smart
thing to do.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And you know, there's I can't tell you why they don't,
if they hadn't thought of it, if they haven't picked
up on it, whatever, But right now it seems like
a glaring sort of thing. We have several techs that
are coming in. Why is this an advantage? Well, it
makes first of all, you have to track the ball.
It makes it difficult to track, It makes it difficult
to ketch and field. It just makes everything about the
(11:03):
returner difficult. And oh, by the way, it's a line drive.
You're not allowing the return team to set anything up
underneath it, because as soon as they touch the ball
or lands on the zone, you can react. So it
allows your team to get off and get into their
pursuit of the ball much quicker. So in addition to
being tough to track the ball in the air when
it's doing that, in addition to being tough to field it,
(11:24):
you have you know, the kind of the fumble risk
of it or whatever else. There's also the fact that
your special team's unit, which has to stay static until
it's either touch or drops on the zone, gets to
get off and go go their pursuit that much faster,
and so it is a multifaceted attack that is more advantageous.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And that's the biggest difference the when you're able to
launch off the ball. With the current rule, if you
lob a kick up there, the kick returner is going
to get under it, and as a result, your coverage
team cannot move until the kick returner has the ball
in his hands.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And he's ready to go.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
If you do this squib thing, the moment that ball
hits in the landing zone and is you know, careeming
around all crazy as we know footballs do, it's the
oblong shaked ball. You have all that time as the
returners trying to corral it, pick it up, figure out
what's in front of them where to run. You have
now all that extra time for your coverage team to
get into a position start walling them in and making
(12:20):
the tackle.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, it's it's just advantageous across the board. So hopefully
we'll see the Broad Coast start. Maybe they'll roll it
out on Monday Night against Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
It's like what happens to a quarterback when they get
a normal snap versus what happens when they get a
wild snap and they have to run back out at
the backfield and scoop it up. Those plays rarely turn
out well for the quarterback as opposed to a snap
that goes right to them.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah, and so this is one of those things that
I just it feels like a no brainer to me
at this point. But well, we'll see. I really hope
that that's something that they're able to do. A couple other.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Items out there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I think we've all seen the shit door stuff about
turning down Baltimore and.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Philly and all that.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I do not understand that whatsoever. Why would you not
want to go to two great organizations even if they
haven't entrench quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
What is having it in trench quarterback had to do
with anything?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You're a fifth rounder, dude, that's like saying no to
the Bengals because they got Joe Burrow. Well, now look
at you. You know, anyway you wind up on the
Browns and then you wind up being a backup to
Joe Flacco and Dylan Gabriel. What a boneheaded mistake from
schidor Sanders.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And is Jalen Hurts really that entrenched?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I mean, I know he's won a super Bowl, He's
had good seasons for the Eagles. I think there's definitely
some problems or some flaws with him as a quarterback.
His contract's about to get more expensive, and we're talking
about an Eagles team that moved off of Carson Wentz
the moment he showed any signs of trouble on his
big contract. If Jalen Hurts does that, and not that
(13:49):
he will, but.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
We know the.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Eagles have a short leash on their head coaches, on
their quarterbacks when they're trying to win every single season,
and if they started having doubts about Jalen Hurts. They
like Shador Sanders, they would have no problem making that
swap and loading up another roster around a rookie contract quarterback.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
One other thing I wanted to touch on real quick
before we hit the bottom of the hot break. Javante
Williams is having a renaissance. Man.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
It's not just you know, the system or any of
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
He's having a renaissance down there in Dallas. He's what second,
I think, or third in least stuff rate. You know,
he's down there making things happen. It's fascinating to watch,
and it's sort of I mean, despite the fact that JK.
Dobbins at least is playing very well, it sort of
kind of puts an eye or casts an eye back
(14:40):
to is this offensive line overrated for the Broncos. They
got all the accolades in the off season, everybody sitting
here telling us how great this line is. I think
this line, or at least the grades or the accolades,
are a.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Two full product. And that's one group think.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
But the other is that Bonux gets the ball out
pretty quick and doesn't take a lot of so everybody
just assumes the line is good because he doesn't take
a lot of sacks.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
That and I think Sean Payton this goes back to
his days with the Saints. He does a great job
designing his pass protection and his pass protection rules, and
Zach Streef.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Has kept that up.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I think he naturally inflates the quality of pass protection.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And I think you see all the.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Great pass protection numbers and it's like, why isn't this
happening with the run game.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Clearly the line's good.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I don't think the O line is as good kind
of what you're saying as the pass protection numbers make
it seem, in part because of Bo Nicks he's so
great at mitigating those sacks, and also because I think
the design of the offense puts those offensive linemen in
easier pass protecting situations.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I tend to agree with that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I just anytime Bo, anytime you got a quarterback that
that can get the ball out quick, it makes people
look better than they are. And I'll you know that
goes back to Dan Marino.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Peyton Manning.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Peyton Manning played behind some colossibly terrible lines in Indianapolis
that sometimes people are saying, Tony you Goo was his
left tackle For a minute. If you don't remember that
guy was awful, But Peyton got the ball out so
quick that it you know that it mitigated a lot
of those those kinds of things. Bose another guy who
gets the ball out pretty quick. So when you combine
those things, it tends to create metrics that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Say, Okay, these guys are good. But the reality is
when they need to.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Get push, I mean, like man, they don't, and I
think we have a real glaring prople. I talked about
this before training camp started, texted Ryan Edwards and I
was like, yeah, I know everybody's focused on this, but
I think there might be a problem with center and
you know, less so left guard. But it might be
a prom a center. And that's kind of born out
this year a little bit. You know, the center position
looks like something we need to upgrade this offseason. I
(16:38):
would suggest that this coming draft is going to be
heavily predicated along the lines. Whereas you know the fans
tend to love these skill position drafts, I think this
coming draft's going to be predicated along the lines.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
They need to upgrade the line, and I think what
person been pending.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Too much on the offensive line right now? But they
can't do that because Bo's on a rookie deal. It
makes me think of the Bucks.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Just they had a rough run game, they invest in
the offensive line, they draft a center in the first round.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Very next year they have an elite run game. Yeah something,
look at We'll get more into that here in just
a second. We'll be back right for this.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Tonight. Benjamin all Bright.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Here with us. Actually you're taking all the way up
top of the hour as the Colorado ROCKI he's going
to take on the Seattle Mariners right here on kaway,
Jack and Jerry on the call.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Still got a few.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Games left in the season. Five sixty six nine zero
is the text line.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Got a couple of texts coming in.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I did want to answer why aren't centers considered more
of a premium position so you make the least valued
O line position.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They seem to be a big part of an offense.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I never understood why the top center isn't taken until
the second round of a draft like Creed Humphries.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Honestly, I think the.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Guard positions a little uh depending on who you ask,
the guard positions a little less valuable than the center,
at least in terms.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Of how you got to pay them and where you
got to find them. You know, there's a.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Lot of teams like for since the uh the Packers
just believe they can turn tackles into guards, right, there
are teams that just believe that. Just draft a bunch
of tackles and then what doesn't work out a tackle.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You move to guard.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I would say that for me personally, I don't like
to look at it that way. I think the way
that the league has has looked at offensive line is
first of all, I think it's fundamental a flawed. Second
of all, I think it winds up costing you more money.
I think it's inefficient. I think you should look at
your offensive line as a unit. Left tackles and right
tackles aren't any less valuable than the other.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Because the blind side doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
When you've got so much, so much of your your
offense is out in the shotgun these days, and on
the center and guard positions to me are earnhairly valuable
because if you can if you can get that push
up the middle on defense and move a quarterback off
his spot and break down his mechanics, they tend to
be less accurate, which we've seen out of bow this
season when he gets moved and gets a little frenetic.
(18:55):
So I think that you have to view your offensive
line more as a as a unit. I understand, you know, again,
you're gonna have to there are five individuals.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
You are gonna have to pay some you're gonna have
to fight certain ways.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
But I think there's a I think there's a market
inefficiency here because people overpay at the tackle positions, and
I think they, you know, they don't do certain things
that they could do, you know, to buttress the interior
of their offensive lines. I would rather have if you
have a top tier offensive line, it can cover all
manner since you know, you could have a middling quarterback
(19:28):
and get away with a little bit more you can
have you know, you can create a run game even
if you don't have a you know, a top tier
running back if you're able to get that push. And
we see the teams that are and have invested along
the offensive line and are dominated.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
At that, they tend to have.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
That kind of success. Who are the best offensive line
units really in the NFL? I mean, I know, the Broncos,
We're getting all the accolades, but the reality is Philadelphia
perpetually turns out great offensive lines.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Baltimore tends to turn out great offensive lines.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
To Detroit Lions, UH made a gigantic investment when Dan
Campbell got there and getting the offensive line going, And
we see these teams that have great offensive lines tend
to start having success.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
If you've got more.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Time, you know, it could take a quarterback that's on
the edge of being good and make them good.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
It gives them time to be able to decipher the
field and make the throw.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And really that's that's what it's about.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So for me, I don't like the idea of one
piece is less valuable than another, because see, like a chain,
you're as strong as your week is link right, If
you got four guys that are all pros on your
offensive line and one guy that stinks, you've got a
problem on your offensive line because that one guy that
stinks is they're gonna they're gonna hammer that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So, you know, I think you have.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
To find a way to just try to create the
best offensive line you possibly can and go from there.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
You need to make investments in that, and.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
We see the teams that don't make those investments wind
up with your outcomes. Look at the Cincinnati Bengals, the
Bengals that are coming to town. Look at look at it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
How many times had Joe Burrow gotten hurt buying that line?
How many didn't that line cost them?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
When Aaron Donald got that Say you got that play
in the Super Bowl, that could have been I mean
not having not making those investments on the offensive line
and putting all your money in the quarterback and receivers.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And now look at it.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Quarterback goes down, and now what you got Jake Browning
trying to throw the ball these guys and throwing interceptions
all over the place. With all due respect to Jake
Browning that throws football better than I have will. There's
sort of a there's sort of an old school mentality. Oh,
you're investing the offensive line. It's a thrower. You don't
have to be a throwback. Investing in your offensive line
(21:42):
makes every other skill position better.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It just does.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
The money should be at the offensive line and the
quarterback position, and you should view the rest of your
skill position players on the offenses is interchangeable unless you
have a transcendent talent, and I mean truly transcendent, Like
I'm talking to Calvin Johnson transcended the rest of your
skill position players like the theory behind it, and I
(22:13):
get that this is taking the humanity out of it
for a minute, but you should view them as interchangeable.
There are some guys that I would consider that are
very good, that are probably locker room enhancers that you
may want to pay and keep around. A guy that
would fit into that mold would be a guy like
our own Rod Smith, who had the ultimate you know,
(22:33):
work mentality, who you know caught everything thrown his way.
And I would not say that Rod was a transcendent
Calvin Johnson type, but he's a guy you pay because
he's a guy that you know is highly reliable and
brings the right work ethic and the right mentality to
the room, and his attitude is pervasive.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Right. But for the most part, most.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Skill position players are guys you should view is honestly interchangeable.
It's the quarterback and the offensive line you should pay.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
And if you if you, if you have the.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Right quarterback in the right offensive line, they're going to
make everybody around him better. If wide receivers alone were
good enough to take otherwise middling quarterbacks and make them good,
we would be talking about a litany of different Arizona
Cardinals quarterbacks when an Kwon Bolden and Larry Fitzgerald were
down there, Ryan was a Ryan Finley, Kevin Kolb. God
(23:26):
who they have down there. They had a whole bunch
of them.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
John Skelton, John Skelton, That's what.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I was thinking of, Max Paul. They went through all,
they went through a ton of them. They had insane
wide receiver play. But wide receiver is a quarterback dependent position,
not the other way around. If you're sitting there telling
me you don't have the receivers to be successful, that's
a quarterback problem.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, you know, you only see that the lesser quarterbacks
need to lean on.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
That, even a guy.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
And then I think if you put a really poor
quarterback in there, you don't get to enjoy them to
the same extent. I feel like Broncos Country had that
conversation in the post Paydon Man in years with Damarius Thomas,
and you know, even look right now in the NFL
at what's happening with samar Chase and t Higgins last
week or what's been happening with Justin Jefferson all season long?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And they got they're getting Adison back here, you know,
on top of they got Adison and Jefferson.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Still you look at the Broncos are a great example
that you hat Emmanuel Sanders. You had to Marrius Thomas.
He had Corland Sutton there for a minute there, you know,
like like and you still you guys like case Keenum
can't get it done if it is a is a
quarterback to pennant position.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And so that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Like for me, at the end of the day, the
way I'm building a football team is with the offensive
line of the quarterback and then we're find you know,
I'll find receivers and we'll just cycle through. That's the
one thing about Sean Payton, or at least one thing
about Sean Payton, not the one thing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Well, one thing about that I've enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Like he he is over the years, he's been all
a bit. He'll pay one receiver and then the rest
of them. He's got a pipeline up coming up through
the you know, cut up through the ranks, and they're
not paying that. They're paying the offensive one. I think
you pay the quarterback in offensive line. I think he
built offenses correctly that way. And the law of supply
and demand comes into effect.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Two.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Of course, there's always receivers out there that you can find.
There's always a fifth round receiver who has a great year.
Davondale last year in the seventh round, Pat Bryant in
the middle rounds this year.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We'll see how that turns out.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You can find receivers so many other ways, even in
free agency, like Diame Brown signed for ten million dollars
has been good for the Jaguars this year.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Those aren't out there on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
The offensive linemen who make it to the market are
the Juwan James's world, Watson Metalick Watson's of the world exactly,
Donald Stevenson. Those are the linemen who make it out
there deeply flawed guys because it's so hard to cultivate
that position. Quarterback and tackle are in a league of
their own in terms of how hard it is to
cultivate that position. Because if you don't have a high
(25:51):
draft pick, I mean, good luck.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, you need to have the tackles, you need the
guards in the center, and if you got the offensive
line set, it's going to give the quarterback time to
find and if they aren't the fastest guys in the world.
You canna have that extra time for him to get open,
because eventually in football a receiver is going to come uncovered.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Right here with you.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Zack Seeg is back there behind the glass, taking you
all the way up to top of the hour when
Kaway's coverage. So the Colorado Rockies taking on the Seattle Mariners.
We'll kick off tonight Tanner Gordon for the Rockies six
and seven with a six E R taking on Luis
Castillo from the Maritors to an eight A three six
(26:33):
three R. A Rocky is currently forty three and one
fourteen Mariners eighty eight and sixty nine on the season,
and first pitch there scheduled to be about seven forty.
But coverage we'll start right up here at the top
of the hour. One of the Texters pointed out, in
relation to our last conversation Julius Thomas's Denver versus Jacksonville production,
(26:58):
how those skill position plays are quarterback dependent and exactly how.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
That played out.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And you bring in an elite athlete like Julius Thomas,
who's really not much of an inline blocker, but it
was an elite athlete. You saw what he could do
with a peyton Manning at the Helm and then you
saw what he couldn't do with Blaine Gabbard and Blake
Bortles and whatever else they had in Jacksonville at the time.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, I think there's some guys that are so transcendent
and special. Like if you hit on a Jamar Chase,
you should keep that guy around.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
He ran.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It's a little different.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Chase Jefferson, Yes, Calvin Johnson, any Moss, those guys are,
you know, but if it's not that caliber and Courtland
is caliber, That's what I'm saying, like, like, you know,
with what we love Courtland Sutton, but he's not that level.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Like you have to kind of you have to kind
of look at this as like, all right, how do
we how do we build this?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Is this a transcendent talent or is this somebody we
should have in the pipe and replace? You know, we
got to pay him for a ye or two, but
then we got our you know, we can replace. There
is an element to roster construction with you know, with
how to be efficient effective with your cap dollars and
make sure that you're setting yourself up properly and the
broncos It's funny because we have too much invested in
our offensive line after I just got through saying we
need to make investments in the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Yeah, and you know, you're definitely hurting for weapons to
an extent, I think, but circling back the offensive line
has been a bit of a problem in its own right.
We talked about how it's been a bit inflated. They
haven't been able to establish the run in large part
because of those offensive line issues.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And I think.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I don't know if the problem is they have too
much invested in the offensive line. As it is, they
have too much older investor dollar amount. You've got to
have some younger draft picks in there too, So wrote
to you know, you would you have to basically two
of your if you're going to pay a quarterback, you
need to have at least two offensive linemen that are
not on second deals. Just the money's just not gonna work, Yes,
(28:49):
especially in the modern cap. Like you just it's a
little easier as things keep exploding more and more. But
all these other positions are getting more expensive. Yeah, and
well everything's getting more expensive. Everything gets more expensive as
the cap continues to go up. And as we see,
you know, as we see these broadcast deals get bigger
and bigger that everything's just going to keep going up.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
So uh, you guys have been listening to Broncos countries
and I trying here on Kwa. We've got Rockies, We've
got Mariners coming up next right here on Ka
Welcome into it Rockies edition, because actually here's back there
behind the glass we yesterday got into. Uh Zach, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How you feel about this. I don't want to labor
the pointer.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Spent so much time on it today, but I didn't
want to get someone else's opinion real quick. The punt
Lebroncos did back to the Chargers with five p fifteen
to go at fourth and a half a yard.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Where did you come down on that decision?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I think now I'm with you. The numbers say they
should have gone for it. I think there's something to
be said for.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
In that moment. In that game, you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Have an offensive success rate of twenty five percent, meaning
you're staying ahead of the sticks just twenty five percent
of the time.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You were not really able to get.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Those hard yards in the run game, or we're throwing
the ball or doing anything.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Really, man, I it's tough.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
With the element of hindsight, it's hard not to say,
go for it, get the one yard and make it
harder on Justin Herbert. The defense was exhausted, you weren't
to get a stop there.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And the numbers back it up.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I guess I leaned that way, but I don't have
a super strong preference. I think it was fine to
punt given how the game had gone up to that point.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
All right, I am yeah, I am completely on the
other side of that, but I always like to solicit
other people's opinions and get their opinions on it as well.
By the way, the Broncos did something finally that I've
been requesting them to do for a while, and yesterday
hired a data scientist, may Opputinsubii, who was previously with
(01:31):
the League Office, started yesterday with the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And hopefully he will be a kind of guy who can.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Give voice to those sort of moments of where the
math says something that doesn't seem like common sense, and
I'm hoping that that will resonate throughout. We'll see, We'll
see what impact he's able to have with the Denver
Broncos overall. One of the things that I wanted to
talk about today is the Broncos are doing kickoffs wrong.
In fact, most of the league is doing kickoffs wrong
(01:58):
right now with new kickoff rules and everything else.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
There are two teams in the league that are adamantly.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And very concisely going about doing kicking the right way.
One of those teams is not very good, but they
are doing it the right way. The other is good.
And those two teams are the Carolina Panthers and the
Los Angeles Rams. I was gonna guess the Ram one
of them. They did a great job this week. They
are both knuckleball squid kicking the ball into the setup zone.
(02:27):
The average field position for opponents for those two teams
each off the kickoff is the twenty one yard line.
No other team is below twenty five. The Falcons are next,
It's like twenty six, the twenty six yard line. The
Bronco is the fifth worst team in the league at
like thirty one yard line. There's no The original designs
when Sam Schwartzen designed this kickoff for the XFL, had
(02:50):
rules about that kind of stuff. Some guardrails for that
that you got it out at the forty if it
went out of bounds or on these other things to
encourage fielding of the kickoff, but to keep people from
exploiting it in the way that the Rams and the
Panthers are right now. The Broncos should absolutely be doing
the same thing. Knuckleball kicked that into the setup zone.
There's no there's no reason not to at this point,
(03:11):
and the Broncos having the allowing the fifth worst starting
field position off the kickoff, each yard is one percent
year one percent more likely to score. Right, So the
Broncos are giving opponents a ten percent better chance to
score every drive than the Panthers and the Rams just
by the way they're kicking off. There's another it's just
math moment.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I fully agree with you on this. I'll start there.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
It's been something I've been wondering all season long. I
think we should be wildly critical of teams regularly kicking touchbacks.
If it happens by mistake, that's one thing, But now
it's about the equivalent of kicking the ball abount, so
that that's a huge problem. You shouldn't also be lobbing
the ball up there and giving these teams all this
time to set up their return because you can't move
(03:56):
until they until the ball touches the ground or they
may contact with it, and so you're giving the return
team a huge advantage.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I've been puzzled by this the whole time.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Now, to play Devil's advocate, I will say, and I
forget which team did it, but we have seen teams
burned trying to do a squib kick, maybe late in
the game or something, and they dirt it a little
too short, it lands in the I forget what it's
called the no no zone for lack of a better word,
and as a result, the teams go all the way
out to the forty yard line. If it's like a
(04:25):
kickoff out of bounds, right, I guess it's only a
five yard difference from the touchback. But do you think
maybe that's the reason we're seeing less team.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That's what's telling me that your kicker isn't skilled enough
to do it, and you need a new kicker, you know,
or you need somebody who can kick it in that way.
To me, you should be training your kicker, your field
goal kicker shouldn't be doing this anyway. You should be
having a safety or some sort of tackling specialist who
can just kick knuckleballs into the setup zone and that's it.
And we've got an additional tackler out there on the
field and you're putting the ball. Oh, they only have
(04:53):
to specialize in that one thing, right, And so that
that to me is sort of doing yourself a bit
of a disservice.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
By doing so.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
The Chiefs they think experimented with it with who they
have read. I think it was Yeah, that was back
there doing that kind of stuff. That's basically what you
need to do. You need to go out and find
a linebacker or a safety who's maybe a down roster
guy who wouldn't otherwise make a roster and go make
him that guy who'd be your fifth safety or whatever
that you can have on the rusher who can handle
doing that as well as you know, kicking it off,
(05:22):
and make yourself in value. If you're a safety or
a linebacker right now, you should be practicing this.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And with the International Pathway Program rules, that's where my
brain immediately went because if you get one of these
Europeans over we can find a rugby ball. Go find
a rugby player or awesome or whatever, get him over here,
and they don't have to be great, just be like, hey,
learn how to be a special teams linebacker for it.
It's like he's like, we don't need you being in
every down defensive guy. Make it so we can trust
you to like cover punts as well as do this
(05:49):
kickoff thing, and you're made. And also with the International
Pathway Program rules that you can have them on your
practice squad without it eating up a practice squad rosters.
So even if they aren't ready to go right out
of the gate in international player is one where you
could be patient developing that for a year or two
and then be ready to go to me It seems
(06:11):
like an absolute no brainer, but you go, you go,
look at the look at the stats on this that
tweeted amount and it is it's mind blowing.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I mean, because this is one of these things that's
a huge advantage in you know, in the game, and
they often forgotten part of the game, the special teams component,
especially this this day and age, where you can give
yourself another edge, and the Broncos are not doing that.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
In fact, we're failing.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
We're fifth worst, you know, we're in in uh in
the NFL in terms of allowing starting field positions. So
it's one of those things where I just I struggle
as I sit here and and I look at this
when I noticed that one of the two teams that
is doing this, the Los Angeles Rams. You'll never guess
(06:54):
who their assistant special teams coaches, Benkwika, the guy we
just got rid of to bring in the guy who's
got us a fifth worst right now.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And he did a good job last year. To me,
I think that's the biggest fair point of Sean Payton
criticism right now.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And I think there's plenty of shortcomings, plenty of things
to what I'm accountable for. But I mean, this is
a self inflicted error that you really had no there
was no reason to do it. The special teams were
great last year, some of the better Broncos special teams
of the past decade. Darren Rizzy had a great resume,
but this wasn't a move you had to make.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And a little the football.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Gods are serving up some karma to the Broncos now
where you fired this guy for no reason that sensibly
no reason, and now you're stuck with Frankly a problematic
special teams unit. And it's kind of remarkable it's been
as problematic as it is because I think Mims looks
like he's doing a great job returning the ball, Crosshaws
bounced back after a rough preseason, he's doing a great
(07:54):
job punting. And in spite of those two players doing
such a good job, it's still, like you said, bottom five,
bottom ten specialty scrim Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's you know, this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
We've had some issues on special teams, whether it's uh,
you know, blocking kicks and getting penalties, whether it's it's
in the The one thing we're doing okay is the
return game.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
We're fine with the return game.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But everything else on special teams has largely been a
bit disappointing this year. And that's a hidden component in
a game that is truly a game of inches, a
game of margins, and no one knows that better than
the Denver Broncos. After the last two games, here's an
area where we could be picking up an advantage, and
I'm strongly advocating for the Broncos to get out there
(08:34):
start knuckleball kicking, kicking into the setup zone immediately because
this is is yielding huge results right now for two
teams that frankly Caroline bad so they you know, they
ain't every edge you can.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Get, but the rams are not bad.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I would, I would suspect that just about anybody
would put Sean McVay and his mind up there with
just about anybody.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
They're doing it too. You could be the.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Third team to you know, to get on the bandwagon
here and hope go from fifth worst opponents starting field
position to top three.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And talking about the value of special teams, I always
think about the twenty ten Chargers, who were number one
in offense, number one in defense, number thirty two in
special teams, and they missed the playoffs. You know, I
can't think of many other teams in NFL history that
have had the top offense and top defense in a
single year.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Any other teams that come close to.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
That, like the eighty five Bears or eighty nine nine Ers.
We consider some of the greatest teams ever. And the
Chargers didn't even make the playoffs because of how bad
their special teams were. And I think that's relevant when
you look at a Broncos team that kind of squeaked
in last year with a great special teams unit, and
now what happens if you take that great special teams
unit make it bad or even subpar with the close
(09:46):
margins the Broncos had last year.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Are you now on the outside looking in? Yeah, I just.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Anything that can increase the margins of victory for you.
I'm all four right, and this is one of those
no brainers. There's no downside to doing this, none, There's
only upside here, and it's it's bearing itself out.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Through three weeks. It's it's making a.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Five to ten yard field starting field position difference in
the way that they're attacking this. So just just something
that that's the other thing that's been grinding my gears,
besides the uh, the the the.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Fourth down call to punt the ball away.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It's just I just feel like there are times where
coaches go with what they consider to be conventional wisdom
rather than what is actually the smart thing to do.
And in this particular case that this is not a
conventional wisdom thing.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
This quid kick it every play. It's just a smart
thing to do.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And you know, there's I can't tell you why they don't,
if they hadn't thought of it, if they haven't picked
up on it, whatever, But right now it seems like
a glaring sort of thing. We have several techs that
are coming in. Why is this an advantage? Well, it
makes first of all, you have to track the ball.
It makes it difficult to track, It makes it difficult
to ketch and field. It just makes everything about the
(11:03):
returner difficult. And oh, by the way, it's a line drive.
You're not allowing the return team to set anything up
underneath it, because as soon as they touch the ball
or lands on the zone, you can react. So it
allows your team to get off and get into their
pursuit of the ball much quicker. So in addition to
being tough to track the ball in the air when
it's doing that, in addition to being tough to field it,
(11:24):
you have you know, the kind of the fumble risk
of it or whatever else. There's also the fact that
your special team's unit, which has to stay static until
it's either touch or drops on the zone, gets to
get off and go go their pursuit that much faster,
and so it is a multifaceted attack that is more advantageous.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And that's the biggest difference the when you're able to
launch off the ball. With the current rule, if you
lob a kick up there, the kick returner is going
to get under it, and as a result, your coverage
team cannot move until the kick returner has the ball
in his hands.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And he's ready to go.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
If you do this squib thing, the moment that ball
hits in the landing zone and is you know, careeming
around all crazy as we know footballs do, it's the
oblong shaked ball. You have all that time as the
returners trying to corral it, pick it up, figure out
what's in front of them where to run. You have
now all that extra time for your coverage team to
get into a position start walling them in and making
(12:20):
the tackle.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, it's it's just advantageous across the board. So hopefully
we'll see the Broad Coast start. Maybe they'll roll it
out on Monday Night against Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
It's like what happens to a quarterback when they get
a normal snap versus what happens when they get a
wild snap and they have to run back out at
the backfield and scoop it up. Those plays rarely turn
out well for the quarterback as opposed to a snap
that goes right to them.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah, and so this is one of those things that
I just it feels like a no brainer to me
at this point. But well, we'll see. I really hope
that that's something that they're able to do. A couple other.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Items out there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I think we've all seen the shit door stuff about
turning down Baltimore and.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Philly and all that.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I do not understand that whatsoever. Why would you not
want to go to two great organizations even if they
haven't entrench quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
What is having it in trench quarterback had to do
with anything?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You're a fifth rounder, dude, that's like saying no to
the Bengals because they got Joe Burrow. Well, now look
at you. You know, anyway you wind up on the
Browns and then you wind up being a backup to
Joe Flacco and Dylan Gabriel. What a boneheaded mistake from
schidor Sanders.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And is Jalen Hurts really that entrenched?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I mean, I know he's won a super Bowl, He's
had good seasons for the Eagles. I think there's definitely
some problems or some flaws with him as a quarterback.
His contract's about to get more expensive, and we're talking
about an Eagles team that moved off of Carson Wentz
the moment he showed any signs of trouble on his
big contract. If Jalen Hurts does that, and not that
(13:49):
he will, but.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
We know the.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Eagles have a short leash on their head coaches, on
their quarterbacks when they're trying to win every single season,
and if they started having doubts about Jalen Hurts. They
like Shador Sanders, they would have no problem making that
swap and loading up another roster around a rookie contract quarterback.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
One other thing I wanted to touch on real quick
before we hit the bottom of the hot break. Javante
Williams is having a renaissance. Man.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
It's not just you know, the system or any of
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
He's having a renaissance down there in Dallas. He's what second,
I think, or third in least stuff rate. You know,
he's down there making things happen. It's fascinating to watch,
and it's sort of I mean, despite the fact that JK.
Dobbins at least is playing very well, it sort of
kind of puts an eye or casts an eye back
(14:40):
to is this offensive line overrated for the Broncos. They
got all the accolades in the off season, everybody sitting
here telling us how great this line is. I think
this line, or at least the grades or the accolades,
are a.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Two full product. And that's one group think.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
But the other is that Bonux gets the ball out
pretty quick and doesn't take a lot of so everybody
just assumes the line is good because he doesn't take
a lot of sacks.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
That and I think Sean Payton this goes back to
his days with the Saints. He does a great job
designing his pass protection and his pass protection rules, and
Zach Streef.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Has kept that up.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I think he naturally inflates the quality of pass protection.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And I think you see all the.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Great pass protection numbers and it's like, why isn't this
happening with the run game.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Clearly the line's good.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I don't think the O line is as good kind
of what you're saying as the pass protection numbers make
it seem, in part because of Bo Nicks he's so
great at mitigating those sacks, and also because I think
the design of the offense puts those offensive linemen in
easier pass protecting situations.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I tend to agree with that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I just anytime Bo, anytime you got a quarterback that
that can get the ball out quick, it makes people
look better than they are. And I'll you know that
goes back to Dan Marino.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Peyton Manning.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Peyton Manning played behind some colossibly terrible lines in Indianapolis
that sometimes people are saying, Tony you Goo was his
left tackle For a minute. If you don't remember that
guy was awful, But Peyton got the ball out so
quick that it you know that it mitigated a lot
of those those kinds of things. Bose another guy who
gets the ball out pretty quick. So when you combine
those things, it tends to create metrics that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Say, Okay, these guys are good. But the reality is
when they need to.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Get push, I mean, like man, they don't, and I
think we have a real glaring prople. I talked about
this before training camp started, texted Ryan Edwards and I
was like, yeah, I know everybody's focused on this, but
I think there might be a problem with center and
you know, less so left guard. But it might be
a prom a center. And that's kind of born out
this year a little bit. You know, the center position
looks like something we need to upgrade this offseason. I
(16:38):
would suggest that this coming draft is going to be
heavily predicated along the lines. Whereas you know the fans
tend to love these skill position drafts, I think this
coming draft's going to be predicated along the lines.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
They need to upgrade the line, and I think what
person been pending.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Too much on the offensive line right now? But they
can't do that because Bo's on a rookie deal. It
makes me think of the Bucks.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Just they had a rough run game, they invest in
the offensive line, they draft a center in the first round.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Very next year they have an elite run game. Yeah something,
look at We'll get more into that here in just
a second. We'll be back right for this.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Tonight. Benjamin all Bright.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Here with us. Actually you're taking all the way up
top of the hour as the Colorado ROCKI he's going
to take on the Seattle Mariners right here on kaway,
Jack and Jerry on the call.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Still got a few.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Games left in the season. Five sixty six nine zero
is the text line.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Got a couple of texts coming in.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I did want to answer why aren't centers considered more
of a premium position so you make the least valued
O line position.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They seem to be a big part of an offense.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I never understood why the top center isn't taken until
the second round of a draft like Creed Humphries.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Honestly, I think the.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Guard positions a little uh depending on who you ask,
the guard positions a little less valuable than the center,
at least in terms.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Of how you got to pay them and where you
got to find them. You know, there's a.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Lot of teams like for since the uh the Packers
just believe they can turn tackles into guards, right, there
are teams that just believe that. Just draft a bunch
of tackles and then what doesn't work out a tackle.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You move to guard.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I would say that for me personally, I don't like
to look at it that way. I think the way
that the league has has looked at offensive line is
first of all, I think it's fundamental a flawed. Second
of all, I think it winds up costing you more money.
I think it's inefficient. I think you should look at
your offensive line as a unit. Left tackles and right
tackles aren't any less valuable than the other.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Because the blind side doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
When you've got so much, so much of your your
offense is out in the shotgun these days, and on
the center and guard positions to me are earnhairly valuable
because if you can if you can get that push
up the middle on defense and move a quarterback off
his spot and break down his mechanics, they tend to
be less accurate, which we've seen out of bow this
season when he gets moved and gets a little frenetic.
(18:55):
So I think that you have to view your offensive
line more as a as a unit. I understand, you know, again,
you're gonna have to there are five individuals.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
You are gonna have to pay some you're gonna have
to fight certain ways.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
But I think there's a I think there's a market
inefficiency here because people overpay at the tackle positions, and
I think they, you know, they don't do certain things
that they could do, you know, to buttress the interior
of their offensive lines. I would rather have if you
have a top tier offensive line, it can cover all
manner since you know, you could have a middling quarterback
(19:28):
and get away with a little bit more you can
have you know, you can create a run game even
if you don't have a you know, a top tier
running back if you're able to get that push. And
we see the teams that are and have invested along
the offensive line and are dominated.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
At that, they tend to have.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
That kind of success. Who are the best offensive line
units really in the NFL? I mean, I know, the Broncos,
We're getting all the accolades, but the reality is Philadelphia
perpetually turns out great offensive lines.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Baltimore tends to turn out great offensive lines.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
To Detroit Lions, UH made a gigantic investment when Dan
Campbell got there and getting the offensive line going, And
we see these teams that have great offensive lines tend
to start having success.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
If you've got more.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Time, you know, it could take a quarterback that's on
the edge of being good and make them good.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
It gives them time to be able to decipher the
field and make the throw.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And really that's that's what it's about.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So for me, I don't like the idea of one
piece is less valuable than another, because see, like a chain,
you're as strong as your week is link right, If
you got four guys that are all pros on your
offensive line and one guy that stinks, you've got a
problem on your offensive line because that one guy that
stinks is they're gonna they're gonna hammer that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So, you know, I think you have.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
To find a way to just try to create the
best offensive line you possibly can and go from there.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
You need to make investments in that, and.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
We see the teams that don't make those investments wind
up with your outcomes. Look at the Cincinnati Bengals, the
Bengals that are coming to town. Look at look at it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
How many times had Joe Burrow gotten hurt buying that line?
How many didn't that line cost them?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
When Aaron Donald got that Say you got that play
in the Super Bowl, that could have been I mean
not having not making those investments on the offensive line
and putting all your money in the quarterback and receivers.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And now look at it.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Quarterback goes down, and now what you got Jake Browning
trying to throw the ball these guys and throwing interceptions
all over the place. With all due respect to Jake
Browning that throws football better than I have will. There's
sort of a there's sort of an old school mentality. Oh,
you're investing the offensive line. It's a thrower. You don't
have to be a throwback. Investing in your offensive line
(21:42):
makes every other skill position better.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It just does.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
The money should be at the offensive line and the
quarterback position, and you should view the rest of your
skill position players on the offenses is interchangeable unless you
have a transcendent talent, and I mean truly transcendent, Like
I'm talking to Calvin Johnson transcended the rest of your
skill position players like the theory behind it, and I
(22:13):
get that this is taking the humanity out of it
for a minute, but you should view them as interchangeable.
There are some guys that I would consider that are
very good, that are probably locker room enhancers that you
may want to pay and keep around. A guy that
would fit into that mold would be a guy like
our own Rod Smith, who had the ultimate you know,
(22:33):
work mentality, who you know caught everything thrown his way.
And I would not say that Rod was a transcendent
Calvin Johnson type, but he's a guy you pay because
he's a guy that you know is highly reliable and
brings the right work ethic and the right mentality to
the room, and his attitude is pervasive.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Right. But for the most part, most.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Skill position players are guys you should view is honestly interchangeable.
It's the quarterback and the offensive line you should pay.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
And if you if you, if you have the.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Right quarterback in the right offensive line, they're going to
make everybody around him better. If wide receivers alone were
good enough to take otherwise middling quarterbacks and make them good,
we would be talking about a litany of different Arizona
Cardinals quarterbacks when an Kwon Bolden and Larry Fitzgerald were
down there, Ryan was a Ryan Finley, Kevin Kolb. God
(23:26):
who they have down there. They had a whole bunch
of them.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
John Skelton, John Skelton, That's what.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I was thinking of, Max Paul. They went through all,
they went through a ton of them. They had insane
wide receiver play. But wide receiver is a quarterback dependent position,
not the other way around. If you're sitting there telling
me you don't have the receivers to be successful, that's
a quarterback problem.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, you know, you only see that the lesser quarterbacks
need to lean on.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
That, even a guy.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
And then I think if you put a really poor
quarterback in there, you don't get to enjoy them to
the same extent. I feel like Broncos Country had that
conversation in the post Paydon Man in years with Damarius Thomas,
and you know, even look right now in the NFL
at what's happening with samar Chase and t Higgins last
week or what's been happening with Justin Jefferson all season long?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And they got they're getting Adison back here, you know,
on top of they got Adison and Jefferson.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Still you look at the Broncos are a great example
that you hat Emmanuel Sanders. You had to Marrius Thomas.
He had Corland Sutton there for a minute there, you know,
like like and you still you guys like case Keenum
can't get it done if it is a is a
quarterback to pennant position.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And so that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Like for me, at the end of the day, the
way I'm building a football team is with the offensive
line of the quarterback and then we're find you know,
I'll find receivers and we'll just cycle through. That's the
one thing about Sean Payton, or at least one thing
about Sean Payton, not the one thing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Well, one thing about that I've enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Like he he is over the years, he's been all
a bit. He'll pay one receiver and then the rest
of them. He's got a pipeline up coming up through
the you know, cut up through the ranks, and they're
not paying that. They're paying the offensive one. I think
you pay the quarterback in offensive line. I think he
built offenses correctly that way. And the law of supply
and demand comes into effect.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Two.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Of course, there's always receivers out there that you can find.
There's always a fifth round receiver who has a great year.
Davondale last year in the seventh round, Pat Bryant in
the middle rounds this year.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We'll see how that turns out.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You can find receivers so many other ways, even in
free agency, like Diame Brown signed for ten million dollars
has been good for the Jaguars this year.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Those aren't out there on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
The offensive linemen who make it to the market are
the Juwan James's world, Watson Metalick Watson's of the world exactly,
Donald Stevenson. Those are the linemen who make it out
there deeply flawed guys because it's so hard to cultivate
that position. Quarterback and tackle are in a league of
their own in terms of how hard it is to
cultivate that position. Because if you don't have a high
(25:51):
draft pick, I mean, good luck.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, you need to have the tackles, you need the
guards in the center, and if you got the offensive
line set, it's going to give the quarterback time to
find and if they aren't the fastest guys in the world.
You canna have that extra time for him to get open,
because eventually in football a receiver is going to come uncovered.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Right here with you.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Zack Seeg is back there behind the glass, taking you
all the way up to top of the hour when
Kaway's coverage. So the Colorado Rockies taking on the Seattle Mariners.
We'll kick off tonight Tanner Gordon for the Rockies six
and seven with a six E R taking on Luis
Castillo from the Maritors to an eight A three six
(26:33):
three R. A Rocky is currently forty three and one
fourteen Mariners eighty eight and sixty nine on the season,
and first pitch there scheduled to be about seven forty.
But coverage we'll start right up here at the top
of the hour. One of the Texters pointed out, in
relation to our last conversation Julius Thomas's Denver versus Jacksonville production,
(26:58):
how those skill position plays are quarterback dependent and exactly how.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
That played out.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And you bring in an elite athlete like Julius Thomas,
who's really not much of an inline blocker, but it
was an elite athlete. You saw what he could do
with a peyton Manning at the Helm and then you
saw what he couldn't do with Blaine Gabbard and Blake
Bortles and whatever else they had in Jacksonville at the time.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, I think there's some guys that are so transcendent
and special. Like if you hit on a Jamar Chase,
you should keep that guy around.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
He ran.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It's a little different.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Chase Jefferson, Yes, Calvin Johnson, any Moss, those guys are,
you know, but if it's not that caliber and Courtland
is caliber, That's what I'm saying, like, like, you know,
with what we love Courtland Sutton, but he's not that level.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Like you have to kind of you have to kind
of look at this as like, all right, how do
we how do we build this?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Is this a transcendent talent or is this somebody we
should have in the pipe and replace? You know, we
got to pay him for a ye or two, but
then we got our you know, we can replace. There
is an element to roster construction with you know, with
how to be efficient effective with your cap dollars and
make sure that you're setting yourself up properly and the
broncos It's funny because we have too much invested in
our offensive line after I just got through saying we
need to make investments in the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Yeah, and you know, you're definitely hurting for weapons to
an extent, I think, but circling back the offensive line
has been a bit of a problem in its own right.
We talked about how it's been a bit inflated. They
haven't been able to establish the run in large part
because of those offensive line issues.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And I think.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I don't know if the problem is they have too
much invested in the offensive line. As it is, they
have too much older investor dollar amount. You've got to
have some younger draft picks in there too, So wrote
to you know, you would you have to basically two
of your if you're going to pay a quarterback, you
need to have at least two offensive linemen that are
not on second deals. Just the money's just not gonna work, Yes,
(28:49):
especially in the modern cap. Like you just it's a
little easier as things keep exploding more and more. But
all these other positions are getting more expensive. Yeah, and
well everything's getting more expensive. Everything gets more expensive as
the cap continues to go up. And as we see,
you know, as we see these broadcast deals get bigger
and bigger that everything's just going to keep going up.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
So uh, you guys have been listening to Broncos countries
and I trying here on Kwa. We've got Rockies, We've
got Mariners coming up next right here on Ka
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