Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Seekers back there behind the glass five six sixty nine
(00:02):
zero is the text line. You guys want to get
involved in the conversation. Sean Payton, uh talking about the
Turkey Hole today. We'll have to get into that one
here in a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I don't know. I've never heard never heard that term
in my life. I mean, I know what he means,
but I'd like, I've never kissed me off, never heard
that term before at all.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
It's going to be an interesting game this weekend. And
you know, I don't there's not a whole lot of
talk been talked about. You know, the Broncos originally wanted
Jim Harbaugh to be the head coach in the Turkey Yes,
in the Turkey Hole right there. He had originally went Harball.
He decided to go back to Michigan to win the
National championships, so they pivoted to Demiko Ryans, and the
(00:50):
Broncos were hot in pursuit of Demiko right In fact,
they've there was a Stronge sentiment that they had it,
that they had it in the bag, and that they
had a verbal kind of agreement. And then at that
point the Peers went back up to Michigan to go
make another run at Harball. Ryan's got wind of it,
got upset and it was like, I'm out, I'm going
(01:11):
to Houston where I'm wanted. I'm the guy, not the
guy till you check on the other guy. And you know,
Harbaugh again declined the Broncos, and they did. The search
widened and then they came circled back around to Sean Payton. Well,
now you got Sean Payton against Amico Ryots. I believe
for the first time since says said, if we played
the Texans since then, or did we play the lost
(01:32):
Trussell Weston year? I think right, well we played them, Yeah,
you're right, You're right.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I think it was twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
That's why this has not been as big a maybe
as big a deal.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
The Texans did win that one, I believe. Wasn't that
the Lucas Kroll couldn't catch the or didn't do the.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Thing in this You know what, I'm glad you brought
that up because early this week I was on the
Sports Too and I brought up that Lucas crow play
and Dave Logan said, well, am I sniff and glue
because I said, well, if Lucas Crow runs that route
the correct way, comes off.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
The ball, they win. They actually win the game.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And then when you think about the course of events
that actually led to that, there was a time out, right, yes,
it was a timeout. So you're thinking, okay, well, with
the time out, they're going to get the right play
that they want to operate in that situation. And there's
so many people who hate Russell Wilson sometimes they are
not really realistic about certain plays. And just to take
(02:33):
you back really quickly, is that there was pressure coming
off the edge. Russell had to bail out to his
left and try to make that throw. And if Lucas
Crow just runs and makes an attempt to get the ball,
I mean Jimmy Ward doesn't have a chance to make
that play. But he continues to drift to wards in
(02:55):
the middle of the field, the center field where Jimmy
Ward was, and.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
He was like, Okay, you're not gonna get it. I'm
gonna take it.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
And I can tell you I coached Jimmy Ward in
San Francisco. Jimmy's about five to ten Lucas Crows what
six three, six four?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
And then you you add his arm length into it. Yeah,
Jimmy should have never been able to take that ball
away from it.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I totally agree, And that was one of those plays
like sort of changed the trajectory of Russell Wilson's time
because you know that one, and then you had the
you know that, the Sean Payton decisions in the in
the Patriots game. Now the Broncos win those two games
and Russell Wilson's probably still here.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, Ben revision is history.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Much to the dismay of one Zack Seegers behind the glass, Well.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
He's elated. He didn't like he's a.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Russ hater, So yeah, I know that.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
But once again, this is where I always ask people
when we're talking about any player, and just for the
sake of conversation, we're talking about Russell right now, just
to be realistic about what we're talking about and what
we're seeing, because sometimes one can't allow their bias to
supersede the logic sometimes, right, And once again, if the
(04:04):
Broncos do beat the Patriots, they go on to make
the playoffs, and they at that time they hadn't made
the playoffs in what.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Nine seasons, then things change.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
But since they did not beat the Patriots, they did
not go to the playoffs. That changed a lot of things.
One of the reasons that Russ isn't here. But yet
I digress.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
It would have been interesting because what would have been
the breaking point in moving off for Russ Wilson?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Would it have been, because then you'd had to keep him.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You go to the playoffs, you have to keep him,
so then you probably get another year that would have
been last year.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So would you have moved off?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Did you have then moved off of us at that
point or moved off be proven off for us this year?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Would you?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And who would you be looking at a quarterback at
that point if you're the Broncos.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I mean, you know what would be the quarterback situation here.
So it's just kind of sort of.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Like in this revision is history thing in my mind,
I kind of like, Okay, what would.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Be the future?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, you can play that game as far as what
would be, but we're not going to play that game
because right now the Broncos, based on how things happened
during that time, they moved on for Russ that allowed
them to grab the Nicks.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Let me let me put it to you this way.
Here's here's what I came to when I did this
mental exercise earlier. Today, Jackson Dart would still be taking
Russell Wilson's job.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I have a what about Sam Donold out here?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
What about that?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Right?
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Because he's somebody signed with the Vikings. It was rebuffing
the Broncos offer. Yeah, so possibly that you know that.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
It's in terms of free agency, the one I came
up with a Sean would have wanted his own guy,
and Jackson Dart absolutely feels like a Sean Baden guy.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Interesting about all of that and now living in the
President and it's kind of revision his history looking back
at how that Texans game bled into the later game
against the Patriots changed the dynamic of a lot of
quarterbacks and where they are in present day football, Right,
Sam Donald, that's the possibility he could be here. Russell
(06:01):
Wilson obviously would have been somewhere else, But that that
game changed a lot of things as far as how
people perception of RUSS because people were upset because they say, well,
RUSS lost that game, and I was like, no, rustn't
lose lose that game. You just unfortunate in vincent things happen.
(06:21):
And also keep this in mind, there was a deep
shot in that game, and I think for me, Russ
was a little late. That was the one I'm calling
a sudden down the middle of the field and Derek
Stingley came and stole it. Ye, that particular play, and
if I'm not mistaken, we saw a similar play like
that and practice during training camp where PS two picked
(06:44):
off the pass right and the first thing I'm thinking,
hopefully the Broncos change that rop because if you don't
influence that one state that that corner on the rock
that they're running, they're going to steal it.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And I and I went back to her.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
I was like, wait a minute, I've seen this run
in practice before, and it went back to the Houston game.
So hopefully the Broncos have figured that out, solved that
because I'm sure Derek Stingley remembers that particular play and
that formation.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I would be willing to betch.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That he does.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
We'll get back to more of the Denver Broncos Houston
Texans a little bit later. World Series Game six tonight.
Do you think that the Blue Jays ended or do
we get a game seven?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
You know, I would like to see a Game seven,
but I think the momentum the history making of Toronto
Blue Jays.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I think they pulled this off.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And when I played in Canada, there was always this
with country is better, even though we're in North America
as a whole, but it was always who has the
better athletes? Is it Toronto, is it the US? And
obviously that's not an argument the United States by far.
(07:55):
But with that being said, Toronto really wants this because
this is almost like sticking it to the man, if
you will, because when you look at the payroll of
the Dodgers in the history, they would have beaten one
of the better teams and organizations in baseball.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, they really would.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I don't know if you've seen over the last couple
of days bought the debate raging on Twitter about quarters coverage.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Have you seen this?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I saw Mina Khan saying something about it.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Both was a coach coach something and he was yelling
and screaming because I'm in the car with my wife,
she's driving, and I saw it and I kind of
clicked on to it and it was language that obviously
I would never use.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
She was like, who is that?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
And yeah, it was this question about quarters coverage. Now
it all depends on who you are brand because everyone
calls certain coverages something different.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Correct, because there's a difference between cover four and quarters match.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
There is a difference between those two.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Different Okay, so let's explain cover four and what that
is before across.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
It's just four zones across.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The idea is with that particular defense that you're trying
to prevent a deep ball, and it is a pure
zone coverage, right, quarters match is starts off that way.
It's probably the best way to put that. And now
there are variations on it. I don't want to get
too deep in the minution and lose people. But starts
off as a quarters look, but as you get vertical,
it turns into man coverage.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
As popularized by Vic Fangio and Nick Saban.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Saban especially really really popularized it down there at Alabama,
and almost nobody runs pure cover four anymore. Everybody just
about runs match now, whether it's C six, C four,
you know, whether you're showing you know, two on one side,
four and the other whatever you're doing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So many comes got on the air and I had
to go back and look at this because I just
I came into the middle of it when people were
debating how to how to bust cover two or a
quarters match or whatever, and I'm like, okay, you can
do it either way.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
You can.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know, everybody's gonna tell you to play to the
flats early because you want to influence the safety and
and keep everybody down. But there are there are concepts
to beat it vertically as well. You can run meals
with a post. If it's me, I'm running bunch to
the to the boundary side of the field with the
you know, the slug on the wide side, you know,
to try to get what the facto man coverage. There's
there's ways to be so I guess she got on
(10:15):
there and said just throw it over the top, which
is what drake Vy did, uh the other day, And
all of a sudden, the Internet melted the hell down
about this about beating cover four.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Okay, so the way you beat quarters and you're right
from a principal standpoint, it is, I mean, every guy
has a portion of the field, and depending on the
routes that the offense pushes out against you, it changes
how you play it.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And the way that we played it.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
The weak side safety, which is a free safety if
you were through the single receiver side. Usually you can
play it two ways if and it would all depend
it on the split.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
What I mean my split.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
When you see the numbers outside the numbers, a plus
inside the numbers is a negative, right, So if that
receiver is on the numbers outside that free safety, now
he can look front side and help out. Right Now
that free safety is not fast in the run game,
you are late in the run game. Now in the
strong safety, his key is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
To tight end.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Now that tight end give run pass read will tell
him whether he is in the run game really quickly
or he's over top of that tight end.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Okay, So let me let me and I'll diagram this
out later if we can't get it right now.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But let me let me throw a play at you here.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
If I'm I need to go vertical in this situation
right where, that's the assumption we're doing here, all right,
So I'm running, I'm to the to the short side
of the field. I got the wide split out, but
I'm in a negative split. I'm I'm inside the numbers barely, right, Okay,
just to give him enough room with a slug or
to just sell the slant right so what I'm doing,
I'm running wheel behind that with the running back over
on the bunch side, I've got the tight end or
the tip of the spear run running dual verticals, and
(11:56):
we're running a hitch underneath it so that I've got
a comeback route against.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
See, So what are your rules on what are your
rules on defending that?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Okay, well, so what you're presenting it seems though that's
to the open side.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
You're running that tight end side to the like over. Yeah, yes,
all right.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
So if you run a slogo to the open side
and he's in a cut split, soon as that number
one wide receiver runs that slant, most likely that safety
is coming down right now because he taught. He's taught,
because the guys inside the number you take anything from
a slant standpoint. Now that that corner, now he run,
he runs to take your place right now on the
(12:33):
wheel side.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It gets really funny.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Because the corner would have the deep posts outside posts,
and the safety is sitting over the tight end essentially
maybe ten to twelve yards deep.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Now, if you have a backer who's.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Supposed to be under dropping underneath, he's going to be
underneath that second vertical by the tight end eight to
ten yards and then he's gonna let him go. So
the way they set up the corner, they call it
like a bang eight. So you get number two sit down,
the safety jumps the tight end because the quarterback has
to now pump that way. And then now you get
the post behind him right now presenting a running back
(13:13):
out of the backfield running a wheel route.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
That changes everything.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
So now we have now there has to be communication
between three people, the corner, the safety, and that backer
on that sign yes, because most likely that corner may say, well,
if I'm getting your post, but I get a wheel lak,
I'm gonna have to pass it off to the center
field safety on that sign and then I'll take the
back out of the backfield. But if you don't talk
(13:39):
before the play, you don't look at the formation before
the play, then you're gonna have everyone.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Jumping the post.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Middlefield safety is taking a post and no one's on
the wheels.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And that's that's my idea the offense. That's what I'm
trying to do. It's a three read. I'm reading the
slug go real quick. Then we're going to the wheel
and if the wheel's taken away over the top of.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
The R hitting the H underneath.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
But this is the part that drives me insane, man,
And I tell you, I throw my hat if I'm
at home at the television, if I'm at the game,
I'm just beside myself wanting to pull out my hair
because I've seen Dallas do it last week with the
Denver Broncos. And there's several plays that I could point to.
And there's the reason why they're one of the worst
(14:21):
teams statistically in the NFL. How the hell can you
get on the field not identifying what the personnel grouping
is actually talk about the personnel grouping, And then with
the Bronco is running so many condensed formation and reduce formations,
how do you not talk about that Troy Franklin scored. Well,
they were talking about it.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It was in the middle of the play with their
hands up as they're both looking at each other while
Troy Franklin's sitting a mile wide open.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Because it's too late.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Because that means as though when the Broncos came out
in their formations, no one said anything. And the traditional
rule is your safeties and your linebacker is pretty much controller,
someone's got to give down a distance, someone's got to
get personnel, and then it's up to everyone else to
start to talk.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
From right to left or left to right.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
What do we have? What are we looking at? They're
in cut splits?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, it's almost like someone when receivers get in a
cut split, there should be an alarm that just goes off,
just screaming, yelling, like def Con one or whatever. It
Isn't that Defcon one that's the most serious, right? Yes, okay, yes,
so an alarm should go off, but it doesn't. And
(15:31):
you sit here and you watch plays occur and it's like,
are you kidding me? On every Broncos touchdown against the
Dallas Cowboys, had the Dallas Cowboys actually communicate before the
play took place, I'm not saying they would have stopped it.
They would have limited the amount of yards after a
(15:52):
particular play.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Well, the team that we're playing this coming with, Houston Texas,
doesn't play quarters very much.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But I just thought that they're mostly a Cover three team.
But I saw the uh.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I just saw the conversation out there on Twitter, and
I was like it was interesting. It was yeah, because
I'm like any coverage you can test it vertical or short,
you know, whenever any coverage as you could do that.
It's just a question of finding how to attack it
and how to influence that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And I thought Kurt Warner had some good comments on that.
He had some some stuff out there.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
But you know the problem with the play that that
particular play was that, oh they played they played Cleveland?
Who or Cincinnati? Did the Patriot? I'm drawn the blank
on it last last Sunday. Oh, the Patriots were not
playing the Bengals. They're playing the Browns. Okay, the Browns.
So the problem was the two safeties, right, because you
(16:39):
had two receivers, right, you got a closed size left,
the corner is sitting C eight.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That means he's eight yards deep in the sea gap.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
And then you had two safeties, right, you had two
outside rounds.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
But then the guy who beat him was the second receiver.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
And I'm like, how did you guys not it's it's
two of you guys, and you did not see him.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Everybody felt the.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Don know no, no, no, no, man, it cannot be
a situation where see in the meeting, that's the coach's
gonna ask you what happened on this play.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah, first, what are we looking at here? Ben had him?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Ben is like, no, I brought him.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
We talked about last week, right, and I'm backing the
bus over you.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, you know what.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
And I show my son this because I said, it's
a cruel game and players do this. You'll see a
guy point in the film, but he doesn't say anything.
Ryan happened this past Sunday with downs. The guy pointed,
he didn't say anything. So when you get in the meeting,
the coach asked, what happened. I'm talking to.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Him right there.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Well, what do you mean you didn't tell me anything?
To see me pointing? You ain't see a damn thing. Yeah,
I can't hear you point. Yes, I can't hear you.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh well you.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Can hear us.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
We get back in this break. We got to do
some versions. Brocos Country might be back after this. Always
been scared of Rocky Okay, always been scared, Like that's.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Your Halloween scar.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
I was just coming up with something on them, like.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I'm like, hold on.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
That's scared of Rocky Phobie all things.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Greg Smith came dressed like Jonah Hill from Accepted Today
with the hot Dog costume.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Yeah, I'm disappointed in myself for not going as all
out as him. I feel like a lesser board op
not showing up in costume like he did.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Nick had the mask with the mustache. It looked like
the Doctor robotic mask or whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
With the sort of like the.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Mustache or whatever. I came as a handsomest metal laugh.
Nailed it and someone's flowing themselves today. I'll let me
take this off. I'll be the smartest man.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Laugh.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It's fun.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
I was gonna say this seemed like a dramatic costume
to show up to work, and now it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Personal costume, you know, just regular clothes. It's just fascinating
how that works. A man. We've got a bunch of
stuff to get to. Sean Payton had some comments today.
I don't I forget the the audio handy. There had
a couple of comments today about uh uh this forthcoming game.
I don't know which one was the turkey hole went on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
That was uh in the turkey hole?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yeah, that one.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
That was the Pat Brian yes touchdown reception. Yeah, and
we'll get to We'll get to.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Sean breaking down of the play with Dave the Seven
o'clock hour if you if you guys missed that earlier,
we'll be rerunning in the seven o'clock hour breaking down
the Pat Bryant touchdown. But that was, yeah, in the Turkey,
I've never heard I've literally never heard that. I've never
heard any coach ever.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
I think Crewden would say that on Monday Night Football.
And I think it might have been Peyton's thing too
when he was here. But I might be miss hurt
Turkey staff.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Back in Philly. Think that would make santific if it
all came from from them being.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Back there in Philly when, uh, how could one even
make that phrase a thing?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And and football? I've never heard heard that used before.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, I that's not a phrase that I've heard before.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
I can find a Reddit post from from a while
ago back when Gruden was on the Monday Night Football
broadcast where a Lions fad is perplexed about the same thing, going,
what the heck is Gruden talking about? He keeps yelling
about this Turkey whole thing?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah, he was. They were on the staff. I was
back in ninety seven under Ray.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Roads together back in the day, like Bill Callahan was
on that staff.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Joe Vitt, See that's that's throwback right there, but in
the Turkey hole. Yeah, but that, I mean, that's so
throwback throwback. But I've never heard a dating coach that
I've I've never heard Mike Senehan even say that.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, here maybe hole.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Or something like that.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, I was around Gruden for a while. I never
heard him say that.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I mean, I'm not saying he didn't say that on
a Monday night football game, but I'm like, I remember
him using that casually.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
It's like when they run it, when they run uh
China corner?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Basically what you want?
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Do you want to drop it right there right between
the safety and no, no, no, no, I'm trying to
get my John Mann an impression. But no, yes, I
don't even remember John Mann talking about turkey. Hold. The
only thing I've heard him talk about with turkey was
on Thanksgiving and well, yes, you know what. Not until
(21:21):
I went to Canada that I realized that was a thing.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, that is actually a thing.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's a thing. I had no idea. I'm like turd.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Duncan J was up there in Canada for something. He
saw this.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
He was like, this is genius.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Yes, And when they were like, hey, Nick, do you
want some, I'm like, nope, I like my fowl separated, right.
I don't like it all included, And I would call
it that.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I may be a bird bias separate, equal, yes, sept
for equal. Yes, we're terrible people. Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Here always the is the text line interesting coming up here?
You worried at all about?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
For me?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You know, I was talking with some people that did
some spots down in Houston today and they were asking
about the.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Keys this game.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I'm honestly, man, this is a special teams game too.
Bronco is going to be without Marvin Mims. Jeremy Crosshaw
has been real up and down this year. Are we
sweating the fact that we're going to be without Marvin Mims,
who really changes field position in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
No, not really, not sweating to a point where it's
it's a panic. I would say the Broncos have done
a great, great job of putting RJ. Harvey back there.
Some people don't like him back there as a running back,
but for me, because he's.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Used to running in space.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Right to me, you get him with the ball in
his hands and he just attacks it, just like his
run play Like that one kind of pin and Pool
play against Dallas where he didn't get touched at all.
To me, that personifies what a returner should do, because
I think it was might have been I don't know
if it's I don't think Pocheski, but might have been
(23:01):
Widenberg who was out there on that left hand side,
and Margie Harvey had an option to actually come back
in the middle of the feel, but he cut right
off his backside. And that's what you need to do
as as a returner. But the Broncos have adequate guys
to be a returner in place of Marvin Mims. The
biggest issue is now you're thinking about with Marvin Mims
(23:22):
being out, Now that's an opportunity for the guys like
Pat Brian who had his first touchdown pass against.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Dallas last week.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
So I'm interested to see how Pat Brian plays against
that secondary.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Of the Texans.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, I am. I am that as well.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I just like today, I started thinking about this cross
Shaw has been hit or miss man. He's had some
I mean he's had some great ones, he's had some bangers,
but he's had some missus h too, And there's that
that punting.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
You know, this is going to be a field position
game most likely.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And it's fascinating to me because you know, having having
mems out there, Harvey has not been as good at
doing it now.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
It's not to say that he can't be, but he
hasn't been as good to date. Now. I don't know
that he's gonna get all of it.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I don't know that he's going to be the only
guy out there making doing returns as far as that
kind of stuff goes.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
But he's going to get first crack at.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It for sure.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, he is, man, And I have to tell you man,
just just from a definus perspective, I love how Demico
Ryans is put together this defense and if you were
to look at it, it's similar to the way the
Broncos kind of built their defense. They are fast up front,
especially on the edge. They have linebackers who are coming
(24:34):
downhill and they will punish you like als Er.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I mean, obviously Denver Bronco's fan.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
You may want to pay attention to do because he
was suspended last year right for a couple of games
because Trevor Lawrence didn't slide when he was supposed to.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
Now toes, you know what they paid me to hit people,
hit people, is it? And yeah, he gets a bit
of a reputation. But I'll say that I think he's
more of a dog than he is a dirty player.
I don't think he's a dirty player. I just think
he plays through the whistle and maybe all the way
to the last tone of the he straddles the line
to a razor's edge.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, right, and you don't want to And then we've
seen bow over the past couple of weeks and some
design quarterback runs.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
If you need to get down, down, get down.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, don't don't. Don't let them head on you.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
No, that's that's one of the things somebody was talking
to when I aggressed some lunch today and this guy
came out, he's but what do you think we should do?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I think we should have Bow run the ball a
little more, and like this ain't the week, not this
week for the Raiders, not this week. Well, I think Ben,
you should not take it off the table.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Run be judicious. Well, okay, it's how you do it.
Like the play that Bow ran against Dallas. Yeah, quarterback,
poor girl Bows, you get calling sudden and then and
then kind of cut split he blocks the edge and
you allow him to get outside.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So to me, that's what you want to do.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Now, I'm not saying run in the teeth of the
Texas defense. No, run on the edge, so you're closer
to the sideline and you have a choice to slide
fee first or run out of bounds.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Now I think the Broncos need to do.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
That, ben Is because you're facing a fast front and
sometimes you have to use their strength against them.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And this is where the Broncos is gonna.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Have to run the ball because now that sets up
r PO and then you suck them in with the
r PO plays and then now you can you can
pull the ball and get outside on the edge. So
this defense is really fast. But that's not to say
that they don't have weaknesses.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That you can exploit. But this is will be.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
One of the fastest physical defensive units as a as
a whole the Broncos would have faced off season long.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, and they're number one a lot of statistical categories.
You know right now, they're they're they're fast, they're they're good,
they got good corners. I'll say is everybody knows their
extingc But the guy on you know the side last
year might be one of the most underrated corners out
there in the league.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
He's a really good corner.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah he is.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
And also don't forget about Jalen Petrie, the nickelback. And
that's the thing that makes this game so interesting because
you have both offenses for the Broncos and the Texans
who have not looked great all season long, and Spurts
they had.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I mean, c J. Straud is coming.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Off of his best offensive performance all season long against
San Francisco bo Is coming off of his best statistical
numbers in my opinion, all season long, and against you
know a Dallas defense. But but then it's the Broncos
defense versus you know the Texas defense. I mean, I
know everyone wants to talk about the quarterbacks, but no,
(27:47):
I'm a.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Defensive guy by hard game.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
This could be a low scoring game, Yeah, this could
be like a thirteen to seventeen game.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I think the in't the over under out there like forty.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I think I appreciate the under is like forty in
a low storing game.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So that's and I think I think that's what I
picked when I did my pick. It does seem that way.
I think I'll reach out to Brad. We'll get him
on the show.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
He also mentioned a quarterback. I am the full clip
that I cut out. He mentioned having a quarterback in.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Green Bay who could rip that through a lot, alloting
to Brett Farv.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
I know Andy Reid had some overlap with Brett Farv,
so that might give some credits to the Philly idea.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Well that's before Andy was there.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Really, that was Ray Rhodes was the head coach of
Philadelphia at the time, and it was Gruden and Sean
Payton were both on that staff. On the offensive side, Alane,
Bill Callahan and a couple of the guys. I'm trying
to remember who else was on his stage. I see
what's his name? Oh God, Louis Castillo was Johnson now
Louis Castillo, Bill Callahan, but Billy Musgrave I think was
(28:53):
on that staff too, if I remember correctly, I had
to go back and loud like it'd be like ninety
seven ninety eight, Philly, you have to I have to.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Go back and look.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I can't remember something I had that Ray Rhads was
it was the head coach there, and then Sean and
John overlapt one year in the first year, Ray Roads
and anyway, all those.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Guys and then you know, build with with John to
the Raiders.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, if I remember that correctly, I mean the fans.
The audience didn't really take to highly to rootin mintionname
multiple times the turkey hole, right, And it's like when
you said you're analyzing. You may get away with it once,
but going back to the world too many times roup
(29:36):
people the wrong way. Now, obviously I told you before
honey hole or just taking a whole shot.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know, that's just kind.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Of the idea of making that throw because usually that's
when the team is playing cover two and you're running
a smash concept where you have being either tight end
number two receiver run quick to the flat, and then
you have that number two receiver run the corner. You
try to put the corner in somewhat of a bond
and the safety really can't get there. And I'll tell you, man,
(30:05):
that route drove me crazy. Of all the coverages I've
ever played in my ten plus years in the league,
I hated Cover two. Yeah, you just hated playing I
hated it. The reason why I hated it because let
me rephrase that, I didn't hate the coverage.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I disliked some of the corners I played with.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Oh okay, yeah, because some of those guys were only
looking out for themselves because they're looking for the quick
flat routes so they can jump it and make the tackle. Meanwhile,
you have someone who's running at that smash concept. You
need to sink. You need to put your backside to
the I guess sideline and just kind of work your
(30:46):
way back towards eight to ten yards deep.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
But sometimes they just kind of trying to dangle in
that Karen in front of him.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
So I hated playing Cover two.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah, it has the right mentality people.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And then you had to have an uber athletic Mike
linebacker back there that was that was able to uh
to run back up.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Because you have the only thing you playing Cover two.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
If the team is going to they're thinking, okay, you
playing two high safety, so.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Numertically in the box, we can run on you.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
And now if you get the middle linebacker thinking run
between the hashes, oh man, dig.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Routes, post rows.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I see you biting up as a middle backer.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I'm just licking my chops all right, here we go
go time now, Yes, can't can't flipt those hips get
around fast and a five six six.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Nine zeros touch.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I go to our crack research team headed by Zach Seekers.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
For digging up the turkey hole explanation.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
That was a deep pool right now, well done data
Stafford's time with the Lions.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I don't know how I found that, but that's how
I got. That's how I got into the public lexicon.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
But we we got even deeper than it came from
Brad Brad Johnson to to Groot because he said he
hadn't heard it before at that point, now you you know,
and he was in Tampa one o one.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Yes, and then ever since then some people heard it,
and then they added to the football a dictionary.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Then now it's in the now it's an alexicon. Apparently.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
There's an NBC Sports column from twenty seventeen. I think
it's the rant I played where he said turkey hold
several times in a short period where I think Mike
floriol is ranting against how dare John Druden use this
filthy term turkey hole so many times on National TV?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
That's funny, and hey, Mike Floria would be the guy
that would be sitt there whining.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
About it with all that. I don't know anyway, we
got any break, we come back. We need the coach's core.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
We got Sean Bayton sitting now with their own Dave
Logan breaking down the Pat Bryant touchdown.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
So was to crumb that
Seekers back there behind the glass five six sixty nine
(00:02):
zero is the text line. You guys want to get
involved in the conversation. Sean Payton, uh talking about the
Turkey Hole today. We'll have to get into that one
here in a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I don't know. I've never heard never heard that term
in my life. I mean, I know what he means,
but I'd like, I've never kissed me off, never heard
that term before at all.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
It's going to be an interesting game this weekend. And
you know, I don't there's not a whole lot of
talk been talked about. You know, the Broncos originally wanted
Jim Harbaugh to be the head coach in the Turkey Yes,
in the Turkey Hole right there. He had originally went Harball.
He decided to go back to Michigan to win the
National championships, so they pivoted to Demiko Ryans, and the
(00:50):
Broncos were hot in pursuit of Demiko right In fact,
they've there was a Stronge sentiment that they had it,
that they had it in the bag, and that they
had a verbal kind of agreement. And then at that
point the Peers went back up to Michigan to go
make another run at Harball. Ryan's got wind of it,
got upset and it was like, I'm out, I'm going
(01:11):
to Houston where I'm wanted. I'm the guy, not the
guy till you check on the other guy. And you know,
Harbaugh again declined the Broncos, and they did. The search
widened and then they came circled back around to Sean Payton. Well,
now you got Sean Payton against Amico Ryots. I believe
for the first time since says said, if we played
the Texans since then, or did we play the lost
(01:32):
Trussell Weston year? I think right, well we played them, Yeah,
you're right, You're right.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I think it was twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
That's why this has not been as big a maybe
as big a deal.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
The Texans did win that one, I believe. Wasn't that
the Lucas Kroll couldn't catch the or didn't do the.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Thing in this You know what, I'm glad you brought
that up because early this week I was on the
Sports Too and I brought up that Lucas crow play
and Dave Logan said, well, am I sniff and glue
because I said, well, if Lucas Crow runs that route
the correct way, comes off.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
The ball, they win. They actually win the game.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And then when you think about the course of events
that actually led to that, there was a time out, right, yes,
it was a timeout. So you're thinking, okay, well, with
the time out, they're going to get the right play
that they want to operate in that situation. And there's
so many people who hate Russell Wilson sometimes they are
not really realistic about certain plays. And just to take
(02:33):
you back really quickly, is that there was pressure coming
off the edge. Russell had to bail out to his
left and try to make that throw. And if Lucas
Crow just runs and makes an attempt to get the ball,
I mean Jimmy Ward doesn't have a chance to make
that play. But he continues to drift to wards in
(02:55):
the middle of the field, the center field where Jimmy
Ward was, and.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
He was like, Okay, you're not gonna get it. I'm
gonna take it.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
And I can tell you I coached Jimmy Ward in
San Francisco. Jimmy's about five to ten Lucas Crows what
six three, six four?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
And then you you add his arm length into it. Yeah,
Jimmy should have never been able to take that ball
away from it.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I totally agree, And that was one of those plays
like sort of changed the trajectory of Russell Wilson's time
because you know that one, and then you had the
you know that, the Sean Payton decisions in the in
the Patriots game. Now the Broncos win those two games
and Russell Wilson's probably still here.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, Ben revision is history.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Much to the dismay of one Zack Seegers behind the glass, Well.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
He's elated. He didn't like he's a.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Russ hater, So yeah, I know that.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
But once again, this is where I always ask people
when we're talking about any player, and just for the
sake of conversation, we're talking about Russell right now, just
to be realistic about what we're talking about and what
we're seeing, because sometimes one can't allow their bias to
supersede the logic sometimes, right, And once again, if the
(04:04):
Broncos do beat the Patriots, they go on to make
the playoffs, and they at that time they hadn't made
the playoffs in what.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Nine seasons, then things change.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
But since they did not beat the Patriots, they did
not go to the playoffs. That changed a lot of things.
One of the reasons that Russ isn't here. But yet
I digress.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
It would have been interesting because what would have been
the breaking point in moving off for Russ Wilson?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Would it have been, because then you'd had to keep him.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You go to the playoffs, you have to keep him,
so then you probably get another year that would have
been last year.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So would you have moved off?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Did you have then moved off of us at that
point or moved off be proven off for us this year?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Would you?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And who would you be looking at a quarterback at
that point if you're the Broncos.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I mean, you know what would be the quarterback situation here.
So it's just kind of sort of.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Like in this revision is history thing in my mind,
I kind of like, Okay, what would.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Be the future?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, you can play that game as far as what
would be, but we're not going to play that game
because right now the Broncos, based on how things happened
during that time, they moved on for Russ that allowed
them to grab the Nicks.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Let me let me put it to you this way.
Here's here's what I came to when I did this
mental exercise earlier. Today, Jackson Dart would still be taking
Russell Wilson's job.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I have a what about Sam Donold out here?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
What about that?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Right?
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Because he's somebody signed with the Vikings. It was rebuffing
the Broncos offer. Yeah, so possibly that you know that.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
It's in terms of free agency, the one I came
up with a Sean would have wanted his own guy,
and Jackson Dart absolutely feels like a Sean Baden guy.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Interesting about all of that and now living in the
President and it's kind of revision his history looking back
at how that Texans game bled into the later game
against the Patriots changed the dynamic of a lot of
quarterbacks and where they are in present day football, Right,
Sam Donald, that's the possibility he could be here. Russell
(06:01):
Wilson obviously would have been somewhere else, But that that
game changed a lot of things as far as how
people perception of RUSS because people were upset because they say, well,
RUSS lost that game, and I was like, no, rustn't
lose lose that game. You just unfortunate in vincent things happen.
(06:21):
And also keep this in mind, there was a deep
shot in that game, and I think for me, Russ
was a little late. That was the one I'm calling
a sudden down the middle of the field and Derek
Stingley came and stole it. Ye, that particular play, and
if I'm not mistaken, we saw a similar play like
that and practice during training camp where PS two picked
(06:44):
off the pass right and the first thing I'm thinking,
hopefully the Broncos change that rop because if you don't
influence that one state that that corner on the rock
that they're running, they're going to steal it.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And I and I went back to her.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
I was like, wait a minute, I've seen this run
in practice before, and it went back to the Houston game.
So hopefully the Broncos have figured that out, solved that
because I'm sure Derek Stingley remembers that particular play and
that formation.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I would be willing to betch.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That he does.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
We'll get back to more of the Denver Broncos Houston
Texans a little bit later. World Series Game six tonight.
Do you think that the Blue Jays ended or do
we get a game seven?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
You know, I would like to see a Game seven,
but I think the momentum the history making of Toronto
Blue Jays.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I think they pulled this off.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And when I played in Canada, there was always this
with country is better, even though we're in North America
as a whole, but it was always who has the
better athletes? Is it Toronto, is it the US? And
obviously that's not an argument the United States by far.
(07:55):
But with that being said, Toronto really wants this because
this is almost like sticking it to the man, if
you will, because when you look at the payroll of
the Dodgers in the history, they would have beaten one
of the better teams and organizations in baseball.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, they really would.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I don't know if you've seen over the last couple
of days bought the debate raging on Twitter about quarters coverage.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Have you seen this?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I saw Mina Khan saying something about it.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Both was a coach coach something and he was yelling
and screaming because I'm in the car with my wife,
she's driving, and I saw it and I kind of
clicked on to it and it was language that obviously
I would never use.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
She was like, who is that?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
And yeah, it was this question about quarters coverage. Now
it all depends on who you are brand because everyone
calls certain coverages something different.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Correct, because there's a difference between cover four and quarters match.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
There is a difference between those two.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Different Okay, so let's explain cover four and what that
is before across.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
It's just four zones across.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The idea is with that particular defense that you're trying
to prevent a deep ball, and it is a pure
zone coverage, right, quarters match is starts off that way.
It's probably the best way to put that. And now
there are variations on it. I don't want to get
too deep in the minution and lose people. But starts
off as a quarters look, but as you get vertical,
it turns into man coverage.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
As popularized by Vic Fangio and Nick Saban.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Saban especially really really popularized it down there at Alabama,
and almost nobody runs pure cover four anymore. Everybody just
about runs match now, whether it's C six, C four,
you know, whether you're showing you know, two on one side,
four and the other whatever you're doing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So many comes got on the air and I had
to go back and look at this because I just
I came into the middle of it when people were
debating how to how to bust cover two or a
quarters match or whatever, and I'm like, okay, you can
do it either way.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
You can.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know, everybody's gonna tell you to play to the
flats early because you want to influence the safety and
and keep everybody down. But there are there are concepts
to beat it vertically as well. You can run meals
with a post. If it's me, I'm running bunch to
the to the boundary side of the field with the
you know, the slug on the wide side, you know,
to try to get what the facto man coverage. There's
there's ways to be so I guess she got on
(10:15):
there and said just throw it over the top, which
is what drake Vy did, uh the other day, And
all of a sudden, the Internet melted the hell down
about this about beating cover four.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Okay, so the way you beat quarters and you're right
from a principal standpoint, it is, I mean, every guy
has a portion of the field, and depending on the
routes that the offense pushes out against you, it changes
how you play it.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And the way that we played it.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
The weak side safety, which is a free safety if
you were through the single receiver side. Usually you can
play it two ways if and it would all depend
it on the split.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
What I mean my split.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
When you see the numbers outside the numbers, a plus
inside the numbers is a negative, right, So if that
receiver is on the numbers outside that free safety, now
he can look front side and help out. Right Now
that free safety is not fast in the run game,
you are late in the run game. Now in the
strong safety, his key is.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
To tight end.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Now that tight end give run pass read will tell
him whether he is in the run game really quickly
or he's over top of that tight end.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Okay, So let me let me and I'll diagram this
out later if we can't get it right now.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But let me let me throw a play at you here.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
If I'm I need to go vertical in this situation
right where, that's the assumption we're doing here, all right,
So I'm running, I'm to the to the short side
of the field. I got the wide split out, but
I'm in a negative split. I'm I'm inside the numbers barely, right, Okay,
just to give him enough room with a slug or
to just sell the slant right so what I'm doing,
I'm running wheel behind that with the running back over
on the bunch side, I've got the tight end or
the tip of the spear run running dual verticals, and
(11:56):
we're running a hitch underneath it so that I've got
a comeback route against.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
See, So what are your rules on what are your
rules on defending that?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Okay, well, so what you're presenting it seems though that's
to the open side.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
You're running that tight end side to the like over. Yeah, yes,
all right.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
So if you run a slogo to the open side
and he's in a cut split, soon as that number
one wide receiver runs that slant, most likely that safety
is coming down right now because he taught. He's taught,
because the guys inside the number you take anything from
a slant standpoint. Now that that corner, now he run,
he runs to take your place right now on the
(12:33):
wheel side.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It gets really funny.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Because the corner would have the deep posts outside posts,
and the safety is sitting over the tight end essentially
maybe ten to twelve yards deep.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Now, if you have a backer who's.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Supposed to be under dropping underneath, he's going to be
underneath that second vertical by the tight end eight to
ten yards and then he's gonna let him go. So
the way they set up the corner, they call it
like a bang eight. So you get number two sit down,
the safety jumps the tight end because the quarterback has
to now pump that way. And then now you get
the post behind him right now presenting a running back
(13:13):
out of the backfield running a wheel route.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
That changes everything.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
So now we have now there has to be communication
between three people, the corner, the safety, and that backer
on that sign yes, because most likely that corner may say, well,
if I'm getting your post, but I get a wheel lak,
I'm gonna have to pass it off to the center
field safety on that sign and then I'll take the
back out of the backfield. But if you don't talk
(13:39):
before the play, you don't look at the formation before
the play, then you're gonna have everyone.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Jumping the post.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Middlefield safety is taking a post and no one's on
the wheels.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And that's that's my idea the offense. That's what I'm
trying to do. It's a three read. I'm reading the
slug go real quick. Then we're going to the wheel
and if the wheel's taken away over the top of.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
The R hitting the H underneath.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
But this is the part that drives me insane, man,
And I tell you, I throw my hat if I'm
at home at the television, if I'm at the game,
I'm just beside myself wanting to pull out my hair
because I've seen Dallas do it last week with the
Denver Broncos. And there's several plays that I could point to.
And there's the reason why they're one of the worst
(14:21):
teams statistically in the NFL. How the hell can you
get on the field not identifying what the personnel grouping
is actually talk about the personnel grouping, And then with
the Bronco is running so many condensed formation and reduce formations,
how do you not talk about that Troy Franklin scored. Well,
they were talking about it.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It was in the middle of the play with their
hands up as they're both looking at each other while
Troy Franklin's sitting a mile wide open.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Because it's too late.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Because that means as though when the Broncos came out
in their formations, no one said anything. And the traditional
rule is your safeties and your linebacker is pretty much controller,
someone's got to give down a distance, someone's got to
get personnel, and then it's up to everyone else to
start to talk.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
From right to left or left to right.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
What do we have? What are we looking at? They're
in cut splits?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, it's almost like someone when receivers get in a
cut split, there should be an alarm that just goes off,
just screaming, yelling, like def Con one or whatever. It
Isn't that Defcon one that's the most serious, right? Yes, okay, yes,
so an alarm should go off, but it doesn't. And
(15:31):
you sit here and you watch plays occur and it's like,
are you kidding me? On every Broncos touchdown against the
Dallas Cowboys, had the Dallas Cowboys actually communicate before the
play took place, I'm not saying they would have stopped it.
They would have limited the amount of yards after a
(15:52):
particular play.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Well, the team that we're playing this coming with, Houston Texas,
doesn't play quarters very much.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But I just thought that they're mostly a Cover three team.
But I saw the uh.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I just saw the conversation out there on Twitter, and
I was like it was interesting. It was yeah, because
I'm like any coverage you can test it vertical or short,
you know, whenever any coverage as you could do that.
It's just a question of finding how to attack it
and how to influence that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And I thought Kurt Warner had some good comments on that.
He had some some stuff out there.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
But you know the problem with the play that that
particular play was that, oh they played they played Cleveland?
Who or Cincinnati? Did the Patriot? I'm drawn the blank
on it last last Sunday. Oh, the Patriots were not
playing the Bengals. They're playing the Browns. Okay, the Browns.
So the problem was the two safeties, right, because you
(16:39):
had two receivers, right, you got a closed size left,
the corner is sitting C eight.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That means he's eight yards deep in the sea gap.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
And then you had two safeties, right, you had two
outside rounds.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
But then the guy who beat him was the second receiver.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
And I'm like, how did you guys not it's it's
two of you guys, and you did not see him.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Everybody felt the.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Don know no, no, no, no, man, it cannot be
a situation where see in the meeting, that's the coach's
gonna ask you what happened on this play.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah, first, what are we looking at here? Ben had him?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Ben is like, no, I brought him.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
We talked about last week, right, and I'm backing the
bus over you.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, you know what.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
And I show my son this because I said, it's
a cruel game and players do this. You'll see a
guy point in the film, but he doesn't say anything.
Ryan happened this past Sunday with downs. The guy pointed,
he didn't say anything. So when you get in the meeting,
the coach asked, what happened. I'm talking to.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Him right there.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Well, what do you mean you didn't tell me anything?
To see me pointing? You ain't see a damn thing. Yeah,
I can't hear you point. Yes, I can't hear you.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh well you.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Can hear us.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
We get back in this break. We got to do
some versions. Brocos Country might be back after this. Always
been scared of Rocky Okay, always been scared, Like that's.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Your Halloween scar.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
I was just coming up with something on them, like.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I'm like, hold on.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
That's scared of Rocky Phobie all things.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Greg Smith came dressed like Jonah Hill from Accepted Today
with the hot Dog costume.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Yeah, I'm disappointed in myself for not going as all
out as him. I feel like a lesser board op
not showing up in costume like he did.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Nick had the mask with the mustache. It looked like
the Doctor robotic mask or whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
With the sort of like the.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Mustache or whatever. I came as a handsomest metal laugh.
Nailed it and someone's flowing themselves today. I'll let me
take this off. I'll be the smartest man.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Laugh.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It's fun.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
I was gonna say this seemed like a dramatic costume
to show up to work, and now it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Personal costume, you know, just regular clothes. It's just fascinating
how that works. A man. We've got a bunch of
stuff to get to. Sean Payton had some comments today.
I don't I forget the the audio handy. There had
a couple of comments today about uh uh this forthcoming game.
I don't know which one was the turkey hole went on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
That was uh in the turkey hole?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yeah, that one.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
That was the Pat Brian yes touchdown reception. Yeah, and
we'll get to We'll get to.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Sean breaking down of the play with Dave the Seven
o'clock hour if you if you guys missed that earlier,
we'll be rerunning in the seven o'clock hour breaking down
the Pat Bryant touchdown. But that was, yeah, in the Turkey,
I've never heard I've literally never heard that. I've never
heard any coach ever.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
I think Crewden would say that on Monday Night Football.
And I think it might have been Peyton's thing too
when he was here. But I might be miss hurt
Turkey staff.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Back in Philly. Think that would make santific if it
all came from from them being.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Back there in Philly when, uh, how could one even
make that phrase a thing?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And and football? I've never heard heard that used before.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, I that's not a phrase that I've heard before.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
I can find a Reddit post from from a while
ago back when Gruden was on the Monday Night Football
broadcast where a Lions fad is perplexed about the same thing, going,
what the heck is Gruden talking about? He keeps yelling
about this Turkey whole thing?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah, he was. They were on the staff. I was
back in ninety seven under Ray.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Roads together back in the day, like Bill Callahan was
on that staff.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Joe Vitt, See that's that's throwback right there, but in
the Turkey hole. Yeah, but that, I mean, that's so
throwback throwback. But I've never heard a dating coach that
I've I've never heard Mike Senehan even say that.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, here maybe hole.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Or something like that.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, I was around Gruden for a while. I never
heard him say that.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I mean, I'm not saying he didn't say that on
a Monday night football game, but I'm like, I remember
him using that casually.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
It's like when they run it, when they run uh
China corner?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Basically what you want?
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Do you want to drop it right there right between
the safety and no, no, no, no, I'm trying to
get my John Mann an impression. But no, yes, I
don't even remember John Mann talking about turkey. Hold. The
only thing I've heard him talk about with turkey was
on Thanksgiving and well, yes, you know what. Not until
(21:21):
I went to Canada that I realized that was a thing.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, that is actually a thing.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's a thing. I had no idea. I'm like turd.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Duncan J was up there in Canada for something. He
saw this.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
He was like, this is genius.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Yes, And when they were like, hey, Nick, do you
want some, I'm like, nope, I like my fowl separated, right.
I don't like it all included, And I would call
it that.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I may be a bird bias separate, equal, yes, sept
for equal. Yes, we're terrible people. Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Here always the is the text line interesting coming up here?
You worried at all about?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
For me?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You know, I was talking with some people that did
some spots down in Houston today and they were asking
about the.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Keys this game.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I'm honestly, man, this is a special teams game too.
Bronco is going to be without Marvin Mims. Jeremy Crosshaw
has been real up and down this year. Are we
sweating the fact that we're going to be without Marvin Mims,
who really changes field position in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
No, not really, not sweating to a point where it's
it's a panic. I would say the Broncos have done
a great, great job of putting RJ. Harvey back there.
Some people don't like him back there as a running back,
but for me, because he's.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Used to running in space.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Right to me, you get him with the ball in
his hands and he just attacks it, just like his
run play Like that one kind of pin and Pool
play against Dallas where he didn't get touched at all.
To me, that personifies what a returner should do, because
I think it was might have been I don't know
if it's I don't think Pocheski, but might have been
(23:01):
Widenberg who was out there on that left hand side,
and Margie Harvey had an option to actually come back
in the middle of the feel, but he cut right
off his backside. And that's what you need to do
as as a returner. But the Broncos have adequate guys
to be a returner in place of Marvin Mims. The
biggest issue is now you're thinking about with Marvin Mims
(23:22):
being out, Now that's an opportunity for the guys like
Pat Brian who had his first touchdown pass against.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Dallas last week.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
So I'm interested to see how Pat Brian plays against
that secondary.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Of the Texans.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, I am. I am that as well.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I just like today, I started thinking about this cross
Shaw has been hit or miss man. He's had some
I mean he's had some great ones, he's had some bangers,
but he's had some missus h too, And there's that
that punting.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
You know, this is going to be a field position
game most likely.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And it's fascinating to me because you know, having having
mems out there, Harvey has not been as good at
doing it now.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
It's not to say that he can't be, but he
hasn't been as good to date. Now. I don't know
that he's gonna get all of it.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I don't know that he's going to be the only
guy out there making doing returns as far as that
kind of stuff goes.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
But he's going to get first crack at.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It for sure.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, he is, man, And I have to tell you man,
just just from a definus perspective, I love how Demico
Ryans is put together this defense and if you were
to look at it, it's similar to the way the
Broncos kind of built their defense. They are fast up front,
especially on the edge. They have linebackers who are coming
(24:34):
downhill and they will punish you like als Er.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I mean, obviously Denver Bronco's fan.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
You may want to pay attention to do because he
was suspended last year right for a couple of games
because Trevor Lawrence didn't slide when he was supposed to.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
Now toes, you know what they paid me to hit people,
hit people, is it? And yeah, he gets a bit
of a reputation. But I'll say that I think he's
more of a dog than he is a dirty player.
I don't think he's a dirty player. I just think
he plays through the whistle and maybe all the way
to the last tone of the he straddles the line
to a razor's edge.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, right, and you don't want to And then we've
seen bow over the past couple of weeks and some
design quarterback runs.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
If you need to get down, down, get down.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, don't don't. Don't let them head on you.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
No, that's that's one of the things somebody was talking
to when I aggressed some lunch today and this guy
came out, he's but what do you think we should do?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I think we should have Bow run the ball a
little more, and like this ain't the week, not this
week for the Raiders, not this week. Well, I think Ben,
you should not take it off the table.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Run be judicious. Well, okay, it's how you do it.
Like the play that Bow ran against Dallas. Yeah, quarterback,
poor girl Bows, you get calling sudden and then and
then kind of cut split he blocks the edge and
you allow him to get outside.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So to me, that's what you want to do.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Now, I'm not saying run in the teeth of the
Texas defense. No, run on the edge, so you're closer
to the sideline and you have a choice to slide
fee first or run out of bounds.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Now I think the Broncos need to do.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
That, ben Is because you're facing a fast front and
sometimes you have to use their strength against them.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And this is where the Broncos is gonna.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Have to run the ball because now that sets up
r PO and then you suck them in with the
r PO plays and then now you can you can
pull the ball and get outside on the edge. So
this defense is really fast. But that's not to say
that they don't have weaknesses.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That you can exploit. But this is will be.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
One of the fastest physical defensive units as a as
a whole the Broncos would have faced off season long.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, and they're number one a lot of statistical categories.
You know right now, they're they're they're fast, they're they're good,
they got good corners. I'll say is everybody knows their
extingc But the guy on you know the side last
year might be one of the most underrated corners out
there in the league.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
He's a really good corner.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah he is.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
And also don't forget about Jalen Petrie, the nickelback. And
that's the thing that makes this game so interesting because
you have both offenses for the Broncos and the Texans
who have not looked great all season long, and Spurts
they had.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I mean, c J. Straud is coming.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Off of his best offensive performance all season long against
San Francisco bo Is coming off of his best statistical
numbers in my opinion, all season long, and against you
know a Dallas defense. But but then it's the Broncos
defense versus you know the Texas defense. I mean, I
know everyone wants to talk about the quarterbacks, but no,
(27:47):
I'm a.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Defensive guy by hard game.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
This could be a low scoring game, Yeah, this could
be like a thirteen to seventeen game.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I think the in't the over under out there like forty.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I think I appreciate the under is like forty in
a low storing game.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So that's and I think I think that's what I
picked when I did my pick. It does seem that way.
I think I'll reach out to Brad. We'll get him
on the show.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
He also mentioned a quarterback. I am the full clip
that I cut out. He mentioned having a quarterback in.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Green Bay who could rip that through a lot, alloting
to Brett Farv.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
I know Andy Reid had some overlap with Brett Farv,
so that might give some credits to the Philly idea.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Well that's before Andy was there.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Really, that was Ray Rhodes was the head coach of
Philadelphia at the time, and it was Gruden and Sean
Payton were both on that staff. On the offensive side, Alane,
Bill Callahan and a couple of the guys. I'm trying
to remember who else was on his stage. I see
what's his name? Oh God, Louis Castillo was Johnson now
Louis Castillo, Bill Callahan, but Billy Musgrave I think was
(28:53):
on that staff too, if I remember correctly, I had
to go back and loud like it'd be like ninety
seven ninety eight, Philly, you have to I have to.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Go back and look.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I can't remember something I had that Ray Rhads was
it was the head coach there, and then Sean and
John overlapt one year in the first year, Ray Roads
and anyway, all those.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Guys and then you know, build with with John to
the Raiders.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, if I remember that correctly, I mean the fans.
The audience didn't really take to highly to rootin mintionname
multiple times the turkey hole, right, And it's like when
you said you're analyzing. You may get away with it once,
but going back to the world too many times roup
(29:36):
people the wrong way. Now, obviously I told you before
honey hole or just taking a whole shot.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know, that's just kind.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Of the idea of making that throw because usually that's
when the team is playing cover two and you're running
a smash concept where you have being either tight end
number two receiver run quick to the flat, and then
you have that number two receiver run the corner. You
try to put the corner in somewhat of a bond
and the safety really can't get there. And I'll tell you, man,
(30:05):
that route drove me crazy. Of all the coverages I've
ever played in my ten plus years in the league,
I hated Cover two. Yeah, you just hated playing I
hated it. The reason why I hated it because let
me rephrase that, I didn't hate the coverage.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I disliked some of the corners I played with.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Oh okay, yeah, because some of those guys were only
looking out for themselves because they're looking for the quick
flat routes so they can jump it and make the tackle. Meanwhile,
you have someone who's running at that smash concept. You
need to sink. You need to put your backside to
the I guess sideline and just kind of work your
(30:46):
way back towards eight to ten yards deep.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
But sometimes they just kind of trying to dangle in
that Karen in front of him.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
So I hated playing Cover two.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah, it has the right mentality people.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And then you had to have an uber athletic Mike
linebacker back there that was that was able to uh
to run back up.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Because you have the only thing you playing Cover two.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
If the team is going to they're thinking, okay, you
playing two high safety, so.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Numertically in the box, we can run on you.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
And now if you get the middle linebacker thinking run
between the hashes, oh man, dig.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Routes, post rows.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I see you biting up as a middle backer.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I'm just licking my chops all right, here we go
go time now, Yes, can't can't flipt those hips get
around fast and a five six six.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Nine zeros touch.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I go to our crack research team headed by Zach Seekers.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
For digging up the turkey hole explanation.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
That was a deep pool right now, well done data
Stafford's time with the Lions.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I don't know how I found that, but that's how
I got. That's how I got into the public lexicon.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
But we we got even deeper than it came from
Brad Brad Johnson to to Groot because he said he
hadn't heard it before at that point, now you you know,
and he was in Tampa one o one.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Yes, and then ever since then some people heard it,
and then they added to the football a dictionary.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Then now it's in the now it's an alexicon. Apparently.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
There's an NBC Sports column from twenty seventeen. I think
it's the rant I played where he said turkey hold
several times in a short period where I think Mike
floriol is ranting against how dare John Druden use this
filthy term turkey hole so many times on National TV?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
That's funny, and hey, Mike Floria would be the guy
that would be sitt there whining.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
About it with all that. I don't know anyway, we
got any break, we come back. We need the coach's core.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
We got Sean Bayton sitting now with their own Dave
Logan breaking down the Pat Bryant touchdown.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
So was to crumb that
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