Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining the show.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
As always, we've got Nick Ferguson, and now you've got
a bit of a different voice filling in for Benjamin
all Bright. It's Zach Seekers covering for Ben so he
can properly celebrate his birthday.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
But Nick, how are you doing tonight? Spectacular? You know what?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
It is Friday, and I like to consider it to
be a big fun Friday because there's a massive game
taking place at in Powerfield on Sunday and Broncos fans
are hoping to say, you know what, that wind streak
has now been extended, so sign me up for it.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm all excited about it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, one of the longest wind streaks in Broncos history.
They win, they'll only continue to climb those rings. I
think this is going to be the toughest game of
the Broncos regular season slate. Hopefully we're talking about some
even tougher opponents come to playoffs may become late January,
maybe even February. But I think up until now, and
I think even through the rest to the regular season,
(01:01):
this Green Bay Packers team is the best the Broncos
will play.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Their record is.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Better than anyone the Broncos have played so far or
will play the rest of the way.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
What say you, Nick?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is this the Broncos' biggest test of the regular season.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
The reason that it's one of the biggest tasts is
closing out the regular season for one, but also this
is an opponent that some think that could make a
run against the Rams to get into the be the
NFC representative for the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So it's gonna be really interesting.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It's a tough opponent because unlike the other opponents, like
we say, well, early in the season, it was the
Philadelphia Eagles, right, they were coming off the Super Bowl.
That was supposed to be a massive challenge, and it
proves to be a massive challenge for the Broncos offensively. Right,
defensively they did their thing, but offensively it was a
challenge for the Denver Broncos. Not as many points as
(01:58):
I would like to, just kind of make sure that
it gives you enough confidence. But the Broncos since then
that they played a couple of teams, they put up
some points and everyone goes back to the New York
Giants game that fourth quarter, and for me, that's what
made me really excited about this Broncos offense, saying Okay,
if they can do what they did in the fourth
(02:20):
quarter for four quarters, it changes the game.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
It doesn't need to make it close.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I don't care who's your offensive coordinator, who's your quarterback,
what your defense is playing like that is the type
of production.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But they're gonna have to prove it, and prove it
on Sunday, and they started to look better.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
To your point, we started to see maybe those four
quarter performances, or at least maybe some three quarter performances,
getting closer to consistently putting out a complete game. I'm curious, though,
do you think the recent improvement we've seen from the
Broncos offense. I really think that Chiefs game maybe started it,
but Chiefs Commanders, and then this second game against the Raiders,
(03:00):
the offense has looked pretty darn good. Against the Raiders,
we even saw the run game get going with RJ.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Harvey, which had.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Been a little absence since JK. Dobbins exited the lineup.
Do you think that offensive progress we saw, and even
that run game progress we saw, is a product of
the Broncos maybe turning a quarter Bo Nicks and Sean
Payton maybe finding another level to what this attack could
be or are they just beating up on three bottom
(03:28):
ten defenses here these last three.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Games, So two things can be shred at the same time.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So I think both of those things that you said
are definitely true.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You can only play the teams that are on your ross.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
You can't do anything about where they are statistically from
an overall record standpoint.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You just go out there and play.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
The idea is that you go out there and you
put your best foot forward, you play your best ball
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And yes, the Broncos have beat.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Up on some teams that had some subpar defensive efforts.
But for me, I was looking for certain things, which
is why when you look at the Raiders game, I
don't look at it as a dominant performance.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
That's just me right, based on my football experience. I
look at it as the Broncos were finally able to
establish some kind of efficiency and you needed that type
of game before you heard it head into the game
Sunday against a far better team because you wanted to
build confidence in your offensive line that hey, we can
move the ball right, we can get find ways to
(04:27):
get RJ.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Harvey involved with the run game, and even the passing game.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Also, you showed that you can be really efficient, which
is very difficult in the NFL. I don't care who
you play, when it's taught. When you talk about matriculating
the ball down the field as far as getting third
downs and controlling the clock, and I think there was
a difference of nineteen minutes as far as time and
possession from the Broncos to the Raiders. So being able
(04:51):
to establish that that is another feather in your cap,
if you will. And you add that to the team's
ability to win games the fourth quarter. I mean that
gives you a certain level of confidence that you can
beat anyone. But at the end of the day, talk
is sheep right, and you need to go out there
and show And this would be the perfect game and
(05:12):
the perfect time for the Broncos, who sells a lot
of the.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Critics absolutely Now, I think the Broncos doubters would say,
I don't know if this team has been putting their
best foot forward against the lesser competition.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
You know, they've only got the multiple or multi.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Possession victories against the Cowboys and the Bengals this year.
All the other ones, including those against the lesser opponents,
are the single possession victories, even if this past Raiders
game has a bit of an asterisk on that element
of it, with the Raiders scoring ten points in the
last three minutes.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
But you know, they've.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Played the Eagles and they we saw then maybe put
together their best game of the season up until that point.
They play the Chiefs and put together an awesome game.
They play the Cowboys and blow them out. Do you
think there's any reality from your player perspective about playing
up and playing down to the level of competition or
(06:02):
are you at all worried about the Broncos maybe coming
out of the gate slow against a much better opponent
than they've seen and maybe a couple of months here.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Okay, first thing first, I don't subscribe to the idea
of any team playing down.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
To your opponent.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Now, what I do know what happens is opponents play
up to your standard, and that's what you That's what
you want them to do. You want them to play
up to your standard. And what that means, even teams
that are two and eight, two and ten, you're going
to see those types of teams really give it a
go against the Denver Broncos. We saw it on Thursday
(06:37):
Night football. Yeah, I went out on a limb, but
limb I never go out on. And I said forty
five ten because that's what I expected for the Broncos
to do, knowing as though who they.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Were playing in the Raiders. It didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
The Raiders say, look, this is the visual game. It's
on Thursday night television. Everyone's watching. We're going to give
the Broncos our best shot. And Patrick Graham, the Raiders
defensive coordinator, he did a hell of a job when
you think about doing more with less. They put a
lot of pressure on the Denver Broncos offense with those
simulated pressures, right, and then you fast forward to last Sunday,
(07:14):
maybe not as many simulated pressures, but they still played
the Broncos really tough because when we look at it statistically, right,
seven points offensively in the first quarter, third quarter, seven points,
fourth quarter three points. The seven points that came in
the second quarter, that was due to Marvin Maham's great
(07:34):
effort by him, HELI an effort by him on the
punt return. So what I'm describing to you, it is
the conversations that I'm having with people in national media
that I know why they're saying, Okay, well, here's why.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
We don't fully believe it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We know based on their defense, right, this team is
a monster and they could be a jogging now because
of their defense. And you mentioned the game against the
cow Boys Houston, I'll be talking about Vegas. Then we
go back to Philly. Right, A lot of that happened.
And I've been saying it all you season long, is
because of your defense. And I think this is why
(08:11):
those who are giving the Broncos the thumbs up, it's
because of their defense.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Because it's a.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Cliche saying, but it's true, right, because defense wins championships.
I mean, think about the Houston Texans. People are talking
about the Houston Texas not because the CJ. Shrod and
their offense, it's because of their defense.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
The Chiefs on this recent dynasty run. You look at
the Ravens, you look at the Bengals.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Off the Bills.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They all have crazy quarterbacks and crazy offenses.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
What the Chiefs have that those other three don't.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Is an elite defense led by an elite defensive mind
who can give all the other quarterbacks a hard time
in the playoffs. I think that's been critical to the
Chiefs having.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
The run that they've had, and you know what.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Okay, So usually when there's a hiring cycle, right, everyone
wants the flash in the pan, the hut offensive young coordinator. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
We've seen that.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Take place because ideas that well, he is a flashy
offensive coordinator.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
The league has been built on quarterback playing.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
You need someone to interact and communicate with that quarterback.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So you go hire this guy.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
See you make someone may say I'm biased, but I'm
gonna take the.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Bill Belichick Tom Brady approach. Right.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Tom Brady became a better quarterback because he was forced
to learn certain things defensively that he didn't know offensively.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
From his defensive mind head coach.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
And oh, by the way, look at what's happened with
the Patriots, right, you're one the year two with Drake
may I remember people were saying mid season last year, oh,
he's a bomb, he's a bus. You know, we know
that he was overinflated as far as coming out of
North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
But you get Josh McDaniels and then you get like.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Rabel, who happens to be what a defensive minded coach,
and both.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Those defensive minded coaches Belichick and Rabel had your visions
of what they wanted on offense. You know, they might
not be the offensive play caller, but they're also not
Vic Fangio, you know, hands off on the offense. I'll
let Pat Shermer deal with that. This situation, they you know,
made an impact on that side of the ball, which
I think makes them extra valuable. And you look over
(10:18):
at the opposite end of the country and the Seattle Seahawks,
and what did they do this? I guess two years
ago when it was time for them to hire a
head coach, they went where the coach McDonald. We're not
going to try and do the arms race and keep
up with McVeigh and Shanahan, which you know a lot
of people wanted them to do.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We're going to hire the guy who might know how
to stop them.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
And I think you've got all these teams around the
NFL who are going to be firing head coaches shortly
looking at that model, seeing the tremendous success that guys
like for Abel, guys like McDonald are having, and then
also the coach hiring pool, like who are the most
exciting up and coming head coaches. It's Vance Joseph, It's
Jesse Mencher with the Chargers, it's Jeff Hafley, the Packers
(10:57):
defensive coordinator. Actually it's not the you know, Clint Kubiaks.
And so I think we might see a real interesting
switch this offseason where you know, for a decade plus
now it's been hire whoever the hottest offensive name is.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well that those minds have kind of.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Been overused in the past, like that fishing hole has
been over fish.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
We're we're out of fish in that pond.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Meanwhile, you look at the defensive coordinator pond and it
is teeming with life and diversity, and it is biodiversity
and ideas and uh, creativity, And I think that's going
to be the angle we start seeing some of these
teams go.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Okay, so let's go back to SEEATA for just a second,
right because I want I want to make sure I
throw this out there and correct you on this, because
I know you mentioned Clint Kubier. Now, Clinton did a
great job in Minnesota with Kirk Cousins after his father,
you know, bound out with some health scare but eventually
came back.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
But you think about what we're seeing in the NFL
right now, and.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
This is why I am steamed to the brim that
my former head coach, Mike Shanahan isn't in the Pro
Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So let me begin so looking at coach McDonald's right.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
The idea is that if you're having all these so
called young coaches with these creative ideas offensively, you need
someone with a brilliant mind to be able to stop them.
So Seattle did a great job and hire coach McDonald.
And what what did coach McDonald go out and do?
He said, you know what, I want Sam Donald, but
I want Sam Donald to be led by who Clint Kubiak.
(12:33):
So you're getting a piece off the Sanahad offense through Clint.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
By the way, you think about where the Rams are
right now, guess what kind of office they're running Mike
Sanahan offense. Right, you see what I'm going with this. Now,
on Sunday the Broncos are facing against facing off against
Matt Lafleur.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Guess where what tree he comes from? Shanahan offense.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Hey, Jeff Hafley, I worked under him and it's a
defensive sistant when I was in San Francisco, And he
comes from the Kyle Sandyhan tree.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So if you're looking at what is going to.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Take to be successful in the NFL, and I'm just
saying that this is the only way, this is the
only blueprint. But when you look at some of the
teams that are competing, there's something familiar to me that
I've seen before, right, that I've seen before that makes
me go, wow, look at the combination. You get a
good defensive mind with that offensive scheme.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You run the ball.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Because remember the Pittsburgh still has told us best. Right,
They've only had three head coaches in the franchise history,
but they told us best. There's two things that Pittsburgh
did well, Play defense and run the ball.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yep. It's a good formula. It's a successful formula.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's one that especially now the NFL is going back to.
And I think people have been slow. I think it's
the reason they're doubting the Broncos so much. People have
been slow to acknowledge this, like it's a grittier style
of football. Defense is mattering more, the run games mattering more.
And yet everyone when they're picking their Super Bowl teams
(14:09):
or you know, laying out their playoff brackets nationally is
talking about how, you know, well, the Bills are going
to win because they've got the best quarterback in the
tournament or whatever, if anything. And also, haven't we learned
this year that having the best quarterback isn't.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
The end all be all.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Look at what's happening with Baltimore, look at what's happening
with Kansas City. Like these teams that we've automatically been
penciling into the playoffs because they've got, you know whatever
filling the blank quarterback, it's not really playing out that
way this year. The teams that are at the top
of their respective divisions are the complete teams, you know,
outside of I guess maybe the Patriots are the outlier example,
(14:50):
It's you know, the Broncos, It's the Jaguars, it's.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
The Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The teams that aren't just about the quarterback, but the
team as a whole, the best overall team.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
All the way that I look at it, man, And
am I being biased because I played defense? You're damn right,
because I know that if you can't score points and
we force you to play with one hand behind your back,
guess what odds are in our favor now.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
The things that have changed with the quarterback is.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That you have more mobile quarterbacks than we've ever seen before.
Some coaches lean into it. Those who do they start
to extend. Those who don't, you take a back seat
and you watch someone else in the playoffs, right, that's.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Where things change.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
But the league is all about propping up one position
and one position only, and that's always a quarterback. So
when you talk quarterback, you think about offensive minded head coaches. Right, Well,
what we're seeing and we and once again we started
to see it, but we didn't want to see it, right,
And what we're watching happen to Kansas City.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
That's a byproduct.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Look at all the players in the quarterbacks that you named, right,
all of those guys against Steiffeer because the defenses of
playing so much better than he played in years past.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And that's how you stop those guys.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And you might get the best of both worlds if
you hire a guy like Vance. Joseph I was listening
to an interview with the Sports Illustrated Connor Or who's
an expert on these you know, up and coming coaching
trees and whatever, and was talking about Davis Webb as
an up and coming offensive coordinator, and he interviewed Cliff Kingsbury,
who was Webb's head coach back in college. Web was
(16:30):
a quarterback at Texas Tech under Cliff, and Cliff told
Or man, if I had a kid who was a
quarterback and was coming up right now, I would do
anything within my power to make sure he played for
Davis Webb.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
This is the guy.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
This is like the ultimate quarterback mentor you want the
sharp He's been ready for this job since the moment
I met him as a freshman at Texas Tech. And
you hear that type of praise like that, there's a
very good chance Web follows guy like Dance Joseph to
whatever program he sets up. And now maybe you're getting
the best of both words worlds where let's just say
the Titans for for fun. You know, you're getting a
(17:05):
guy like Dance Joseph who can maybe stabilize that organization,
get that defense rolling at a high level, give them
a team identity. Then also you're getting this this quarterbacks
fen Gali to work with, to work alongside cam Ward
and get him ready.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
You like that one. I gotta do my best. Albright
in Treasure your the source. Yeah, you know what that's right,
and it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And here's something that most people don't talk about it.
Maybe we can get into it in bigger detail. Is
that some are some of the backup quarterbacks make good
quarterback coaches. Maybe they couldn't have done it themselves, but
they become good creative guys because they spend a lot
of time.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Watching those who can't do teach. That's that's what I've heard.
Get more into that after the break.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And also I want to talk to Nick about a
bit of a clash of the Titans we're going to
see on Sunday. This Packers offense in the Broncos defense.
Who's gonna come out on top. We'll get to that next.
I wish Ben a happy birthday. Hopefully he's listening celebrating somewhere.
(18:14):
You gotta gotta give him some some Toto love favorite,
you know what?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
See it sounds as though that I'm not, you know,
in in alignment with.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You on this, but I am. I love some Toto.
You're down with Toto? Yes? Are you a bigger Toto
fan than Ben? Woo don't know?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I don't you know what. I don't think so. And
Ben is not typically a fan of a lot of things.
So if that is his crescendo being Toto, I'll let.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Him have it.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Are you an Africa guy or do you like more
of their catalog? Do you know some of their their
deep cuts? Because I guess the Ben and Ryan debate
is Ryan says they're kind of a one hit wonder
and Ben is staunchly on the gift Toto their love camp.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Toto is more than just a one hit wonder. See,
they have served with songs. But when you think about
some of the songs that they have, those songs have
been used by different artists, Like think about like the
Georgie Porgy, Right, that track has been used by Eric Beney,
has been used by mc light, and it was used
(19:24):
by one other, one other per person. I can't recall
that this particular moment, So say whatever you want to say.
That group kind of transcends genres. Right, And it's more
than just a one hit wonder. And what does Ryan
ares know?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
He was like top Gun, that's so un American, you
know what, that's a strong counterpoint.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
But is liking Africa American?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yes, it's it's a song about the continent. Yes, someone
who isn't a one hit wonder? Marvin Mims, Yes, stellar
punt returner. You know, we made fun of the article
yesterday that said that punt return was the difference in
the Broncos Raiders game, but it was kind of the
(20:11):
game changing play.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
That really opened things up for the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
His returns all year have been game changing for the
Denver Broncos. Is this a week where special teams and
Marvin Mims are the ultimate difference maker?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Think about what the Broncos offense look like as far
as fuel position when Mems was out, and then look
at what it looked like when he came back.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Right, And I'm not saying.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
That Marvin is Devin Hester like a guy that I
played with, because Hassard was dangerous.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Right, here's a crazy thing on that though Marvin mims
average return yardage is greater than that of Devin Hester,
that's a pretty nuts stat on the power turn.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Well, that is a pretty crazy stat by itself.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Well, when I say, when I say Devin Hester kickoffs
and punts, you're always holding your breath because you never
knew what was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Marvin is starting to venture into.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That that kind of echelon from a punt return standpoint
and being a punt returner, it requires a lot and
I learned this from my time with Mike Westoff, who
Mike is by far, well not even by far, he
is the best special teams coach to whoever coach the game.
(21:33):
And to know that that's not that wasn't his natural position.
He started off coaching tight ends an offensive line, but
now he's he's one of the top guys in the league.
And when you are a returner, you got to set
it up. The whole idea is that you got to
think about it. The ball is coming in the it's
(21:54):
coming in the air, it's it's a full rotation. And
most punt returners they take a quick glance and see
the ball off the kicker's foot and then now they
got to track the ball and then try not to
look at the guys in front of him, because it's
happened to Marvin before where he's kind of taking his
eyes off and he's dropped the ball. But he's better
now and secure in the ball. But making that first
(22:16):
guy miss, that's the biggest part, making.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
The first guy miss.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
And what Marvin does that reminds me of hester is
that he knows how to set guys up and because idea,
as soon as you catch it, some guys want to
press and get vertical right away. And hester just like Marvin,
they were great at running laterally first, because remember the
guys who were coming down the field, They're supposed to
(22:43):
spread the field, but they don't because they all go,
you know what, I see, Zach singers right in front
of me, I'm going to get that blow up tackle,
and they all come like a mantu flame, like in
the triangle. So when that happens, he goes vertical, they
all move to whatever side he's moving to, and now
he hits the scene right away. And then you got
(23:04):
to look at the guys who are blocking and playing
for Mike west Off, the idea was that I wanted
to do my part right to make sure I got
the right block, and I want to make sure that
I wasn't a guy that created a penalty to make
that long return come back. And what we're seeing with
Darren Rizzy, you see guys who are working to get
(23:26):
into position right.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And I'm gonna say this.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Someone else may disagree, but I'm gonna say that's a
little of the foundation that was set in plays by
one Mike Westaff, Darren Rizzy, it came here and it
was just a continuation because the guys on a Special
Team's Joe Skinner, Devin keyth they already had a built
in foundation, right, it was just okay. But now let's
(23:50):
take that foundation and put it into action. And we're
seeing Marvin do a hell of a job and he
will be needed on Sunday to flip the field and
give the Broncos field position from a punt standpoint punt
return standpoint.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And early on this year, fans understandably, I think everyone
actually was really unhappy with the Special Team's performance and
facts the contrary to what you were saying, it was
I think very puzzling to everyone at the time, rather
than I don't know, critique Darren Rizzy for hey, we've
swapped out the Special teams coordinator.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You're the big new face, and this unit's gotten a
lot worse.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
It seems like a lot of the blame was on
the players early on. Now the unit as a whole
is looking a lot better. You've got Crosshaw dialed in,
LUTs dialed in, and men's of course dvon Key Jail
Skinner are.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Making big plays.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
But in so many of those special teams phases, there's
one player that impacts so much, you know, Jeremy Croshawn punts,
LUTs on the kicks, and men's on the returns. Do
you think this special team's improvement we've seen in the
last you know, month or two is a product of,
you know, maybe the coaching started to take hold, maybe
(25:02):
the players themselves starting to perform better as an overall unit.
Or is it just, Hey, the Broncos have a nails kicker,
a punter that's booting the heck out of the ball,
and maybe the best returner in the league. Is it
a greater unit situation or do they just have a
handful of really great players.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Well, it's confidence because crushy'all remember in that Raiders game awful, right,
and people are just like, well, what's going on with him?
And there were a couple of other games where the
ball seemed to be coming off the side of his
foot getting giving the other offense an opportunity to play
at midfield the field goal range with ten ten yards.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So now it's it's confidence.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's like being a basketball player, right and you are
somewhat in the run and you see the first ball
go through the hoop, right, they give it to you
to get you see the second one. Now, with every
time the ball goes through the hoop with confidence goes up,
and that's why your teammates want to feed you and
get you more involved. So we're seeing a combination of
(26:07):
a couple of things. Guys are starting to build that
confidence because all you need to see is the ball
going to hoop, and the ball in the hoop is
maybe a cross all kick that pens the opposing team
deep or in the case of the punt return, there's
a great return by Marvin Maham's guys are doing their
job to make sure they maintain leverage, spread the field.
(26:28):
Give them an opportunity that gives you confidence because think
about it, a lot of those guys on a special
teams unit. I was there myself too. That's how I
cut my teeth is that.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
That's your job.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
You are reserve dB, you reserve linebacker, so you earn
your check by making plays on special teams. And that's
how coaches say, Okay, well, hey Devin King, you're doing
a great job far as special teams concerned. Maybe once
in a while we give you an opportunity to get
some plays in the live game against a live opponent.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Thank you, coach.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I appreciate it, and that makes that player go out
there and continue to work. So they're all working together
and they're now starting to build confident. That's why the
Raiders' game, the second Raider's game was past Sunday was
so important. Right came at the right time, even despite
their opponent. It came at the right time, so everyone
(27:21):
can build up their confidence on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
We got to be playing all the alright favorites for
his birthday, a little more journey after playing some Toto
coming back from the last one. Someone I'm also missing today,
Nick Drake Greenlaw. I was listening to Vance Joseph's media
availability the other day and he talked about how Drake
(27:51):
Greenlaw is still on a snap count. And you look
at how many snaps he's played over these last four
games since his return, and it lines up. He played
sixty one point seven percent of snaps, sixty one point
four percent of snaps, seventy two point two percent of snaps,
and then finally sixty percent of snaps last week.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Those are his last four games.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Meanwhile, you've got Alex Singleton still out snapping him. I
think that's at least a little disappointing considering the offseason
investment in Dray Greenlaw.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Where are you at with this situation?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Do you think the Broncos need to start playing green
Law more?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Do you think it's smart how they're going about it.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
In terms of kind of I guess piece mealing in
parts of the defense and limiting his playing time. What
do you think about the fact that he is still
on this pitch count.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I think it's great that he's still on his pitchcount
because remember we're talking about a guy who missed a
large portion of the season due to injury he sustaining
during training camp, and he was already coming in with
an injury history by itself.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
So keeping him on the.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Pitch count knowing as though you can monitor him, I
think that is very valuable because Greenlaw provides a certain
type of emotional leadership and physicality to the Broncos secondary,
I mean, second level defense that we hadn't had around
here in a while. So you want to make sure
you keep that intach and the one thing that makes
(29:18):
it easy for the Broncos to be able to do
that is just a tremad a guy who I mean,
I know the Broncos were giving out money after the
buy extensions. He was one of those guys who he didn't.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Have his name call.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Someone's going to be calling that name in a couple months,
whether it be Broncos or someone else.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Someone's paying that now.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
And the more he plays, and the more he plays
the way that he's played thus far, he gets outside
of that box. And the reason I'm saying a box
because that's what happens. Sometimes people look at you and
put you in the box and they can't see outside
the box other than what their perception is of you.
(29:57):
In that particular time, it happened to me as a
player where they just looked at me as a special
teams player. Well, we're not looking at him as a starter.
I mean, he's a great rotational guy. He could fill
in and that's about it. That's the way they filled
their mind. But you have to outplay that and that's
what Shrenad has done. But that's what he's competing against
because well, you mean, you keep someone.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
In that box and you paint them in that box.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
You know what you do essentially, what you're doing, you
know that they're better than the box that you're creating.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
But if you can keep them in that box, you
don't have to pay him a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
But Shrenard has already signed a couple of one year
deals prior, but based on how he performed this season,
he's letting everyone know I cut my teeth in his
league as a special teams player. Oh, by the way,
I got starting minutes. I mean, remember what he did
with Cody Bardon last year when Alex Ingington went out
and then when Greenlaw was out, it was just you know,
(30:51):
Alex and Justin, and then when Alex was out then
it was sad In Greenlaw. So he's proven that he
can actually play a high level and take him out
of the box. But sometimes when someone has their minds
set up and put you in the box, they don't
want to change that because they know it's the cost
is not going to be effective for them, but it
(31:13):
takes away from that player. So I hope Justice Charanad
gets his bag because he's definitely earned it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Do you think because le Broncos are gonna have a tough,
tough decision to make here coming up with Sternad and
Alex Singleton having expiring deals here, do you think they
let both those guys walk? Do you think they bring
both of them back or just bring one back and
which you think is more likely to return.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Well, they're gonna try to bring both guys back. But
at this particular point, if you are Justice Orannad, and
I'm sure his camp is telling him, look, man, you've
got played that special Teams tag. Think about all the
starts that you've had over the two years, but more
importantly the plays. So it would be hard pressed for
me to believe that Schrenard would sign back with this team,
(31:58):
knowing as though he's just a rotation of guy on
maybe another one year deal. So the team is gonna
have to make some tough decisions. But if I had
to say, maybe you bring Shannar back, right, maybe maybe
that you bring Shnar back because he's shown that there's
no disrespect to I've got Alex Singleton or Schernad. But
(32:18):
sometimes you have to make some tough.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Decisions that you do.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Coming up at the top of the hour, we're gonna
be talking with Patrick Keyote Moore about that critical game
between the Broncos.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
And the Packers. Next hour, we're also.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Going to get into that clash of the Titans between
the Broncos offense and sorry, the Packers offense and the
Broncos defense. All that coming up next on Broncos Country
tonight right here on eight to fifty Kowa
Joining the show.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
As always, we've got Nick Ferguson, and now you've got
a bit of a different voice filling in for Benjamin
all Bright. It's Zach Seekers covering for Ben so he
can properly celebrate his birthday.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
But Nick, how are you doing tonight? Spectacular? You know what?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
It is Friday, and I like to consider it to
be a big fun Friday because there's a massive game
taking place at in Powerfield on Sunday and Broncos fans
are hoping to say, you know what, that wind streak
has now been extended, so sign me up for it.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm all excited about it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, one of the longest wind streaks in Broncos history.
They win, they'll only continue to climb those rings. I
think this is going to be the toughest game of
the Broncos regular season slate. Hopefully we're talking about some
even tougher opponents come to playoffs may become late January,
maybe even February. But I think up until now, and
I think even through the rest to the regular season,
(01:01):
this Green Bay Packers team is the best the Broncos
will play.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Their record is.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Better than anyone the Broncos have played so far or
will play the rest of the way.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
What say you, Nick?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is this the Broncos' biggest test of the regular season.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
The reason that it's one of the biggest tasts is
closing out the regular season for one, but also this
is an opponent that some think that could make a
run against the Rams to get into the be the
NFC representative for the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So it's gonna be really interesting.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It's a tough opponent because unlike the other opponents, like
we say, well, early in the season, it was the
Philadelphia Eagles, right, they were coming off the Super Bowl.
That was supposed to be a massive challenge, and it
proves to be a massive challenge for the Broncos offensively. Right,
defensively they did their thing, but offensively it was a
challenge for the Denver Broncos. Not as many points as
(01:58):
I would like to, just kind of make sure that
it gives you enough confidence. But the Broncos since then
that they played a couple of teams, they put up
some points and everyone goes back to the New York
Giants game that fourth quarter, and for me, that's what
made me really excited about this Broncos offense, saying Okay,
if they can do what they did in the fourth
(02:20):
quarter for four quarters, it changes the game.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
It doesn't need to make it close.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I don't care who's your offensive coordinator, who's your quarterback,
what your defense is playing like that is the type
of production.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But they're gonna have to prove it, and prove it
on Sunday, and they started to look better.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
To your point, we started to see maybe those four
quarter performances, or at least maybe some three quarter performances,
getting closer to consistently putting out a complete game. I'm curious, though,
do you think the recent improvement we've seen from the
Broncos offense. I really think that Chiefs game maybe started it,
but Chiefs Commanders, and then this second game against the Raiders,
(03:00):
the offense has looked pretty darn good. Against the Raiders,
we even saw the run game get going with RJ.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Harvey, which had.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Been a little absence since JK. Dobbins exited the lineup.
Do you think that offensive progress we saw, and even
that run game progress we saw, is a product of
the Broncos maybe turning a quarter Bo Nicks and Sean
Payton maybe finding another level to what this attack could
be or are they just beating up on three bottom
(03:28):
ten defenses here these last three.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Games, So two things can be shred at the same time.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So I think both of those things that you said
are definitely true.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You can only play the teams that are on your ross.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
You can't do anything about where they are statistically from
an overall record standpoint.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You just go out there and play.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
The idea is that you go out there and you
put your best foot forward, you play your best ball
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And yes, the Broncos have beat.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Up on some teams that had some subpar defensive efforts.
But for me, I was looking for certain things, which
is why when you look at the Raiders game, I
don't look at it as a dominant performance.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
That's just me right, based on my football experience. I
look at it as the Broncos were finally able to
establish some kind of efficiency and you needed that type
of game before you heard it head into the game
Sunday against a far better team because you wanted to
build confidence in your offensive line that hey, we can
move the ball right, we can get find ways to
(04:27):
get RJ.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Harvey involved with the run game, and even the passing game.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Also, you showed that you can be really efficient, which
is very difficult in the NFL. I don't care who
you play, when it's taught. When you talk about matriculating
the ball down the field as far as getting third
downs and controlling the clock, and I think there was
a difference of nineteen minutes as far as time and
possession from the Broncos to the Raiders. So being able
(04:51):
to establish that that is another feather in your cap,
if you will. And you add that to the team's
ability to win games the fourth quarter. I mean that
gives you a certain level of confidence that you can
beat anyone. But at the end of the day, talk
is sheep right, and you need to go out there
and show And this would be the perfect game and
(05:12):
the perfect time for the Broncos, who sells a lot
of the.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Critics absolutely Now, I think the Broncos doubters would say,
I don't know if this team has been putting their
best foot forward against the lesser competition.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
You know, they've only got the multiple or multi.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Possession victories against the Cowboys and the Bengals this year.
All the other ones, including those against the lesser opponents,
are the single possession victories, even if this past Raiders
game has a bit of an asterisk on that element
of it, with the Raiders scoring ten points in the
last three minutes.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
But you know, they've.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Played the Eagles and they we saw then maybe put
together their best game of the season up until that point.
They play the Chiefs and put together an awesome game.
They play the Cowboys and blow them out. Do you
think there's any reality from your player perspective about playing
up and playing down to the level of competition or
(06:02):
are you at all worried about the Broncos maybe coming
out of the gate slow against a much better opponent
than they've seen and maybe a couple of months here.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Okay, first thing first, I don't subscribe to the idea
of any team playing down.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
To your opponent.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Now, what I do know what happens is opponents play
up to your standard, and that's what you That's what
you want them to do. You want them to play
up to your standard. And what that means, even teams
that are two and eight, two and ten, you're going
to see those types of teams really give it a
go against the Denver Broncos. We saw it on Thursday
(06:37):
Night football. Yeah, I went out on a limb, but
limb I never go out on. And I said forty
five ten because that's what I expected for the Broncos
to do, knowing as though who they.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Were playing in the Raiders. It didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
The Raiders say, look, this is the visual game. It's
on Thursday night television. Everyone's watching. We're going to give
the Broncos our best shot. And Patrick Graham, the Raiders
defensive coordinator, he did a hell of a job when
you think about doing more with less. They put a
lot of pressure on the Denver Broncos offense with those
simulated pressures, right, and then you fast forward to last Sunday,
(07:14):
maybe not as many simulated pressures, but they still played
the Broncos really tough because when we look at it statistically, right,
seven points offensively in the first quarter, third quarter, seven points,
fourth quarter three points. The seven points that came in
the second quarter, that was due to Marvin Maham's great
(07:34):
effort by him, HELI an effort by him on the
punt return. So what I'm describing to you, it is
the conversations that I'm having with people in national media
that I know why they're saying, Okay, well, here's why.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
We don't fully believe it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We know based on their defense, right, this team is
a monster and they could be a jogging now because
of their defense. And you mentioned the game against the
cow Boys Houston, I'll be talking about Vegas. Then we
go back to Philly. Right, A lot of that happened.
And I've been saying it all you season long, is
because of your defense. And I think this is why
(08:11):
those who are giving the Broncos the thumbs up, it's
because of their defense.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Because it's a.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Cliche saying, but it's true, right, because defense wins championships.
I mean, think about the Houston Texans. People are talking
about the Houston Texas not because the CJ. Shrod and
their offense, it's because of their defense.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
The Chiefs on this recent dynasty run. You look at
the Ravens, you look at the Bengals.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Off the Bills.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They all have crazy quarterbacks and crazy offenses.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
What the Chiefs have that those other three don't.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Is an elite defense led by an elite defensive mind
who can give all the other quarterbacks a hard time
in the playoffs. I think that's been critical to the
Chiefs having.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
The run that they've had, and you know what.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Okay, So usually when there's a hiring cycle, right, everyone
wants the flash in the pan, the hut offensive young coordinator. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
We've seen that.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Take place because ideas that well, he is a flashy
offensive coordinator.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
The league has been built on quarterback playing.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
You need someone to interact and communicate with that quarterback.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So you go hire this guy.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
See you make someone may say I'm biased, but I'm
gonna take the.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Bill Belichick Tom Brady approach. Right.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Tom Brady became a better quarterback because he was forced
to learn certain things defensively that he didn't know offensively.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
From his defensive mind head coach.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
And oh, by the way, look at what's happened with
the Patriots, right, you're one the year two with Drake
may I remember people were saying mid season last year, oh,
he's a bomb, he's a bus. You know, we know
that he was overinflated as far as coming out of
North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
But you get Josh McDaniels and then you get like.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Rabel, who happens to be what a defensive minded coach,
and both.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Those defensive minded coaches Belichick and Rabel had your visions
of what they wanted on offense. You know, they might
not be the offensive play caller, but they're also not
Vic Fangio, you know, hands off on the offense. I'll
let Pat Shermer deal with that. This situation, they you know,
made an impact on that side of the ball, which
I think makes them extra valuable. And you look over
(10:18):
at the opposite end of the country and the Seattle Seahawks,
and what did they do this? I guess two years
ago when it was time for them to hire a
head coach, they went where the coach McDonald. We're not
going to try and do the arms race and keep
up with McVeigh and Shanahan, which you know a lot
of people wanted them to do.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We're going to hire the guy who might know how
to stop them.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
And I think you've got all these teams around the
NFL who are going to be firing head coaches shortly
looking at that model, seeing the tremendous success that guys
like for Abel, guys like McDonald are having, and then
also the coach hiring pool, like who are the most
exciting up and coming head coaches. It's Vance Joseph, It's
Jesse Mencher with the Chargers, it's Jeff Hafley, the Packers
(10:57):
defensive coordinator. Actually it's not the you know, Clint Kubiaks.
And so I think we might see a real interesting
switch this offseason where you know, for a decade plus
now it's been hire whoever the hottest offensive name is.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well that those minds have kind of.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Been overused in the past, like that fishing hole has
been over fish.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
We're we're out of fish in that pond.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Meanwhile, you look at the defensive coordinator pond and it
is teeming with life and diversity, and it is biodiversity
and ideas and uh, creativity, And I think that's going
to be the angle we start seeing some of these
teams go.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Okay, so let's go back to SEEATA for just a second,
right because I want I want to make sure I
throw this out there and correct you on this, because
I know you mentioned Clint Kubier. Now, Clinton did a
great job in Minnesota with Kirk Cousins after his father,
you know, bound out with some health scare but eventually
came back.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
But you think about what we're seeing in the NFL
right now, and.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
This is why I am steamed to the brim that
my former head coach, Mike Shanahan isn't in the Pro
Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So let me begin so looking at coach McDonald's right.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
The idea is that if you're having all these so
called young coaches with these creative ideas offensively, you need
someone with a brilliant mind to be able to stop them.
So Seattle did a great job and hire coach McDonald.
And what what did coach McDonald go out and do?
He said, you know what, I want Sam Donald, but
I want Sam Donald to be led by who Clint Kubiak.
(12:33):
So you're getting a piece off the Sanahad offense through Clint.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
By the way, you think about where the Rams are
right now, guess what kind of office they're running Mike
Sanahan offense. Right, you see what I'm going with this. Now,
on Sunday the Broncos are facing against facing off against
Matt Lafleur.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Guess where what tree he comes from? Shanahan offense.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Hey, Jeff Hafley, I worked under him and it's a
defensive sistant when I was in San Francisco, And he
comes from the Kyle Sandyhan tree.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So if you're looking at what is going to.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Take to be successful in the NFL, and I'm just
saying that this is the only way, this is the
only blueprint. But when you look at some of the
teams that are competing, there's something familiar to me that
I've seen before, right, that I've seen before that makes
me go, wow, look at the combination. You get a
good defensive mind with that offensive scheme.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You run the ball.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Because remember the Pittsburgh still has told us best. Right,
They've only had three head coaches in the franchise history,
but they told us best. There's two things that Pittsburgh
did well, Play defense and run the ball.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yep. It's a good formula. It's a successful formula.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's one that especially now the NFL is going back to.
And I think people have been slow. I think it's
the reason they're doubting the Broncos so much. People have
been slow to acknowledge this, like it's a grittier style
of football. Defense is mattering more, the run games mattering more.
And yet everyone when they're picking their Super Bowl teams
(14:09):
or you know, laying out their playoff brackets nationally is
talking about how, you know, well, the Bills are going
to win because they've got the best quarterback in the
tournament or whatever, if anything. And also, haven't we learned
this year that having the best quarterback isn't.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
The end all be all.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Look at what's happening with Baltimore, look at what's happening
with Kansas City. Like these teams that we've automatically been
penciling into the playoffs because they've got, you know whatever
filling the blank quarterback, it's not really playing out that
way this year. The teams that are at the top
of their respective divisions are the complete teams, you know,
outside of I guess maybe the Patriots are the outlier example,
(14:50):
It's you know, the Broncos, It's the Jaguars, it's.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
The Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The teams that aren't just about the quarterback, but the
team as a whole, the best overall team.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
All the way that I look at it, man, And
am I being biased because I played defense? You're damn right,
because I know that if you can't score points and
we force you to play with one hand behind your back,
guess what odds are in our favor now.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
The things that have changed with the quarterback is.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That you have more mobile quarterbacks than we've ever seen before.
Some coaches lean into it. Those who do they start
to extend. Those who don't, you take a back seat
and you watch someone else in the playoffs, right, that's.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Where things change.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
But the league is all about propping up one position
and one position only, and that's always a quarterback. So
when you talk quarterback, you think about offensive minded head coaches. Right, Well,
what we're seeing and we and once again we started
to see it, but we didn't want to see it, right,
And what we're watching happen to Kansas City.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
That's a byproduct.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Look at all the players in the quarterbacks that you named, right,
all of those guys against Steiffeer because the defenses of
playing so much better than he played in years past.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And that's how you stop those guys.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And you might get the best of both worlds if
you hire a guy like Vance. Joseph I was listening
to an interview with the Sports Illustrated Connor Or who's
an expert on these you know, up and coming coaching
trees and whatever, and was talking about Davis Webb as
an up and coming offensive coordinator, and he interviewed Cliff Kingsbury,
who was Webb's head coach back in college. Web was
(16:30):
a quarterback at Texas Tech under Cliff, and Cliff told
Or man, if I had a kid who was a
quarterback and was coming up right now, I would do
anything within my power to make sure he played for
Davis Webb.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
This is the guy.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
This is like the ultimate quarterback mentor you want the
sharp He's been ready for this job since the moment
I met him as a freshman at Texas Tech. And
you hear that type of praise like that, there's a
very good chance Web follows guy like Dance Joseph to
whatever program he sets up. And now maybe you're getting
the best of both words worlds where let's just say
the Titans for for fun. You know, you're getting a
(17:05):
guy like Dance Joseph who can maybe stabilize that organization,
get that defense rolling at a high level, give them
a team identity. Then also you're getting this this quarterbacks
fen Gali to work with, to work alongside cam Ward
and get him ready.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
You like that one. I gotta do my best. Albright
in Treasure your the source. Yeah, you know what that's right,
and it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And here's something that most people don't talk about it.
Maybe we can get into it in bigger detail. Is
that some are some of the backup quarterbacks make good
quarterback coaches. Maybe they couldn't have done it themselves, but
they become good creative guys because they spend a lot
of time.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Watching those who can't do teach. That's that's what I've heard.
Get more into that after the break.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And also I want to talk to Nick about a
bit of a clash of the Titans we're going to
see on Sunday. This Packers offense in the Broncos defense.
Who's gonna come out on top. We'll get to that next.
I wish Ben a happy birthday. Hopefully he's listening celebrating somewhere.
(18:14):
You gotta gotta give him some some Toto love favorite,
you know what?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
See it sounds as though that I'm not, you know,
in in alignment with.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You on this, but I am. I love some Toto.
You're down with Toto? Yes? Are you a bigger Toto
fan than Ben? Woo don't know?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I don't you know what. I don't think so. And
Ben is not typically a fan of a lot of things.
So if that is his crescendo being Toto, I'll let.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Him have it.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Are you an Africa guy or do you like more
of their catalog? Do you know some of their their
deep cuts? Because I guess the Ben and Ryan debate
is Ryan says they're kind of a one hit wonder
and Ben is staunchly on the gift Toto their love camp.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Toto is more than just a one hit wonder. See,
they have served with songs. But when you think about
some of the songs that they have, those songs have
been used by different artists, Like think about like the
Georgie Porgy, Right, that track has been used by Eric Beney,
has been used by mc light, and it was used
(19:24):
by one other, one other per person. I can't recall
that this particular moment, So say whatever you want to say.
That group kind of transcends genres. Right, And it's more
than just a one hit wonder. And what does Ryan
ares know?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
He was like top Gun, that's so un American, you
know what, that's a strong counterpoint.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
But is liking Africa American?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yes, it's it's a song about the continent. Yes, someone
who isn't a one hit wonder? Marvin Mims, Yes, stellar
punt returner. You know, we made fun of the article
yesterday that said that punt return was the difference in
the Broncos Raiders game, but it was kind of the
(20:11):
game changing play.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
That really opened things up for the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
His returns all year have been game changing for the
Denver Broncos. Is this a week where special teams and
Marvin Mims are the ultimate difference maker?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Think about what the Broncos offense look like as far
as fuel position when Mems was out, and then look
at what it looked like when he came back.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Right, And I'm not saying.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
That Marvin is Devin Hester like a guy that I
played with, because Hassard was dangerous.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Right, here's a crazy thing on that though Marvin mims
average return yardage is greater than that of Devin Hester,
that's a pretty nuts stat on the power turn.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Well, that is a pretty crazy stat by itself.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Well, when I say, when I say Devin Hester kickoffs
and punts, you're always holding your breath because you never
knew what was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Marvin is starting to venture into.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That that kind of echelon from a punt return standpoint
and being a punt returner, it requires a lot and
I learned this from my time with Mike Westoff, who
Mike is by far, well not even by far, he
is the best special teams coach to whoever coach the game.
(21:33):
And to know that that's not that wasn't his natural position.
He started off coaching tight ends an offensive line, but
now he's he's one of the top guys in the league.
And when you are a returner, you got to set
it up. The whole idea is that you got to
think about it. The ball is coming in the it's
(21:54):
coming in the air, it's it's a full rotation. And
most punt returners they take a quick glance and see
the ball off the kicker's foot and then now they
got to track the ball and then try not to
look at the guys in front of him, because it's
happened to Marvin before where he's kind of taking his
eyes off and he's dropped the ball. But he's better
now and secure in the ball. But making that first
(22:16):
guy miss, that's the biggest part, making.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
The first guy miss.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
And what Marvin does that reminds me of hester is
that he knows how to set guys up and because idea,
as soon as you catch it, some guys want to
press and get vertical right away. And hester just like Marvin,
they were great at running laterally first, because remember the
guys who were coming down the field, They're supposed to
(22:43):
spread the field, but they don't because they all go,
you know what, I see, Zach singers right in front
of me, I'm going to get that blow up tackle,
and they all come like a mantu flame, like in
the triangle. So when that happens, he goes vertical, they
all move to whatever side he's moving to, and now
he hits the scene right away. And then you got
(23:04):
to look at the guys who are blocking and playing
for Mike west Off, the idea was that I wanted
to do my part right to make sure I got
the right block, and I want to make sure that
I wasn't a guy that created a penalty to make
that long return come back. And what we're seeing with
Darren Rizzy, you see guys who are working to get
(23:26):
into position right.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And I'm gonna say this.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Someone else may disagree, but I'm gonna say that's a
little of the foundation that was set in plays by
one Mike Westaff, Darren Rizzy, it came here and it
was just a continuation because the guys on a Special
Team's Joe Skinner, Devin keyth they already had a built
in foundation, right, it was just okay. But now let's
(23:50):
take that foundation and put it into action. And we're
seeing Marvin do a hell of a job and he
will be needed on Sunday to flip the field and
give the Broncos field position from a punt standpoint punt
return standpoint.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And early on this year, fans understandably, I think everyone
actually was really unhappy with the Special Team's performance and
facts the contrary to what you were saying, it was
I think very puzzling to everyone at the time, rather
than I don't know, critique Darren Rizzy for hey, we've
swapped out the Special teams coordinator.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You're the big new face, and this unit's gotten a
lot worse.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
It seems like a lot of the blame was on
the players early on. Now the unit as a whole
is looking a lot better. You've got Crosshaw dialed in,
LUTs dialed in, and men's of course dvon Key Jail
Skinner are.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Making big plays.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
But in so many of those special teams phases, there's
one player that impacts so much, you know, Jeremy Croshawn punts,
LUTs on the kicks, and men's on the returns. Do
you think this special team's improvement we've seen in the
last you know, month or two is a product of,
you know, maybe the coaching started to take hold, maybe
(25:02):
the players themselves starting to perform better as an overall unit.
Or is it just, Hey, the Broncos have a nails kicker,
a punter that's booting the heck out of the ball,
and maybe the best returner in the league. Is it
a greater unit situation or do they just have a
handful of really great players.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Well, it's confidence because crushy'all remember in that Raiders game awful, right,
and people are just like, well, what's going on with him?
And there were a couple of other games where the
ball seemed to be coming off the side of his
foot getting giving the other offense an opportunity to play
at midfield the field goal range with ten ten yards.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So now it's it's confidence.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's like being a basketball player, right and you are
somewhat in the run and you see the first ball
go through the hoop, right, they give it to you
to get you see the second one. Now, with every
time the ball goes through the hoop with confidence goes up,
and that's why your teammates want to feed you and
get you more involved. So we're seeing a combination of
(26:07):
a couple of things. Guys are starting to build that
confidence because all you need to see is the ball
going to hoop, and the ball in the hoop is
maybe a cross all kick that pens the opposing team
deep or in the case of the punt return, there's
a great return by Marvin Maham's guys are doing their
job to make sure they maintain leverage, spread the field.
(26:28):
Give them an opportunity that gives you confidence because think
about it, a lot of those guys on a special
teams unit. I was there myself too. That's how I
cut my teeth is that.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
That's your job.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
You are reserve dB, you reserve linebacker, so you earn
your check by making plays on special teams. And that's
how coaches say, Okay, well, hey Devin King, you're doing
a great job far as special teams concerned. Maybe once
in a while we give you an opportunity to get
some plays in the live game against a live opponent.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Thank you, coach.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I appreciate it, and that makes that player go out
there and continue to work. So they're all working together
and they're now starting to build confident. That's why the
Raiders' game, the second Raider's game was past Sunday was
so important. Right came at the right time, even despite
their opponent. It came at the right time, so everyone
(27:21):
can build up their confidence on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
We got to be playing all the alright favorites for
his birthday, a little more journey after playing some Toto
coming back from the last one. Someone I'm also missing today,
Nick Drake Greenlaw. I was listening to Vance Joseph's media
availability the other day and he talked about how Drake
(27:51):
Greenlaw is still on a snap count. And you look
at how many snaps he's played over these last four
games since his return, and it lines up. He played
sixty one point seven percent of snaps, sixty one point
four percent of snaps, seventy two point two percent of snaps,
and then finally sixty percent of snaps last week.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Those are his last four games.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Meanwhile, you've got Alex Singleton still out snapping him. I
think that's at least a little disappointing considering the offseason
investment in Dray Greenlaw.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Where are you at with this situation?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Do you think the Broncos need to start playing green
Law more?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Do you think it's smart how they're going about it.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
In terms of kind of I guess piece mealing in
parts of the defense and limiting his playing time. What
do you think about the fact that he is still
on this pitch count.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I think it's great that he's still on his pitchcount
because remember we're talking about a guy who missed a
large portion of the season due to injury he sustaining
during training camp, and he was already coming in with
an injury history by itself.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
So keeping him on the.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Pitch count knowing as though you can monitor him, I
think that is very valuable because Greenlaw provides a certain
type of emotional leadership and physicality to the Broncos secondary,
I mean, second level defense that we hadn't had around
here in a while. So you want to make sure
you keep that intach and the one thing that makes
(29:18):
it easy for the Broncos to be able to do
that is just a tremad a guy who I mean,
I know the Broncos were giving out money after the
buy extensions. He was one of those guys who he didn't.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Have his name call.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Someone's going to be calling that name in a couple months,
whether it be Broncos or someone else.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Someone's paying that now.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
And the more he plays, and the more he plays
the way that he's played thus far, he gets outside
of that box. And the reason I'm saying a box
because that's what happens. Sometimes people look at you and
put you in the box and they can't see outside
the box other than what their perception is of you.
(29:57):
In that particular time, it happened to me as a
player where they just looked at me as a special
teams player. Well, we're not looking at him as a starter.
I mean, he's a great rotational guy. He could fill
in and that's about it. That's the way they filled
their mind. But you have to outplay that and that's
what Shrenad has done. But that's what he's competing against
because well, you mean, you keep someone.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
In that box and you paint them in that box.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
You know what you do essentially, what you're doing, you
know that they're better than the box that you're creating.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
But if you can keep them in that box, you
don't have to pay him a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
But Shrenard has already signed a couple of one year
deals prior, but based on how he performed this season,
he's letting everyone know I cut my teeth in his
league as a special teams player. Oh, by the way,
I got starting minutes. I mean, remember what he did
with Cody Bardon last year when Alex Ingington went out
and then when Greenlaw was out, it was just you know,
(30:51):
Alex and Justin, and then when Alex was out then
it was sad In Greenlaw. So he's proven that he
can actually play a high level and take him out
of the box. But sometimes when someone has their minds
set up and put you in the box, they don't
want to change that because they know it's the cost
is not going to be effective for them, but it
(31:13):
takes away from that player. So I hope Justice Charanad
gets his bag because he's definitely earned it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Do you think because le Broncos are gonna have a tough,
tough decision to make here coming up with Sternad and
Alex Singleton having expiring deals here, do you think they
let both those guys walk? Do you think they bring
both of them back or just bring one back and
which you think is more likely to return.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Well, they're gonna try to bring both guys back. But
at this particular point, if you are Justice Orannad, and
I'm sure his camp is telling him, look, man, you've
got played that special Teams tag. Think about all the
starts that you've had over the two years, but more
importantly the plays. So it would be hard pressed for
me to believe that Schrenard would sign back with this team,
(31:58):
knowing as though he's just a rotation of guy on
maybe another one year deal. So the team is gonna
have to make some tough decisions. But if I had
to say, maybe you bring Shannar back, right, maybe maybe
that you bring Shnar back because he's shown that there's
no disrespect to I've got Alex Singleton or Schernad. But
(32:18):
sometimes you have to make some tough.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Decisions that you do.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Coming up at the top of the hour, we're gonna
be talking with Patrick Keyote Moore about that critical game
between the Broncos.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
And the Packers. Next hour, we're also.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Going to get into that clash of the Titans between
the Broncos offense and sorry, the Packers offense and the
Broncos defense. All that coming up next on Broncos Country
tonight right here on eight to fifty Kowa
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