June 18, 2024 • 37 mins
'The City of Champions' does it again as the Boston Celtics won their 18th title last night in dominating fashion, surpassing the Lakers for most in NBA history. On the latest BULLY BALL, Rachel and Boogie react to the historic night and debate if this is the start of a new league dynasty. Plus, What's next for Luka Doncic, Kyrie Irving, and the Mavs after falling just short. Also, can anyone catch the Celtics? What's next for the top free agents like Paul George?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back to bully Ball, presented by DraftKings. I'm Rachel Nichols,
that as always is mister DeMarcus Cousins and Boog. You
can tell we're on the last one of the season
because the plant is gone. It's just a white wall
behind you. It's all you can give. You've left it
all out on the court. I'm glad you're home, man,
but I do miss the plant.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Plants in stores right now. So you know he'll be
back for next season. You know he went on an
early vacation. We're all headed Todd vacations. Season's over, so
you know this is the last one for this year.
So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You know who's not tired, Boogie Cousins. The Boston Celtics.
They are still waiting for their parade on Friday. They
are celebrating. I'm here in Boston. The streets were crazy
last night. The arena was hopping. I'm not saying that
they threw Game four. I mean, obviously they did not
ro Game four, but the idea that they got to
win on their floor, I just think is so special,
(01:05):
and you could just the outpouring was incredible last night.
What impressed you most from everything you saw.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I don't think I've ever seen a more complete season
from a team, just the way they dominated throughout the
regular season. I mean, can we sit here and say,
this may be the first team that really didn't face
any type of adversity and if it did, it was
you know, it was minimal. And I'm not saying that
(01:35):
in a negative way. I'm more so saying it like
this team was that good, Like they never really struggled
at any point during the season, even when with some
injuries they were able to, you know, maintain keep afloat.
But this was probably one of the best seasons from
start to finish that I've seen from a professional team.
(01:56):
And it's been very, very impressive. So, you know, even
considering how great the playoff run was, just as a
complete hole, I think this team deserves credit. They've obviously
learned from their past seasons, They've learned from their past mistakes,
and you know, they figured it out. They figured it
(02:16):
out at the right time. They put the perfect pieces
in place to make everything compliment you know, each other,
and you know, this was the perfect season for the
Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, I don't think it's really adversity anymore now that
they've won. I think it's more just talking about that
they crushed everything in their path, Like there wasn't a
lot of oh my god, you know the wheels are
falling off moments, not because no one challenged them. I
think the Dallas Mavericks were a pretty huge challenge for them,
but just because they were that good and we saw it,
of course with the twenty sixteen Warriors. I mean, there've
been teams like this, but I just it's super impressive.
(02:50):
Wire to wire from the very beginning of the season
to the last day of the season, they were ahead
of everybody else. And you know, you can't win that
eighteenth banner and anymore pressive way than that best offensive
rating ever is what they're going to finish with, top
five in point differential, sixty four and eighteen eighty and
twenty one including the playoffs on the season. I just,
(03:14):
you know, anyway, and there's still people I'm telling you,
I still I turned on my TV this morning and
I still saw people talking about like, well, they had
an easy path because of all the injuries in the
Eastern Conference. You know what I'm done with that? Like, yes,
of course, you know, the East is easier than the West.
Guess what, This is not the first season that that
has been the case, and it will not be the
(03:35):
last season that has been the case. Next year the
West is going to be just a dogfight. But they
beat everyone in front of them, and they faced a
Mavericks team that a lot of people picked to win
this title. You go back, a lot of the picks
before this finals were for the Mavericks, which you and
I didn't understand. We talked about it the day before
the finals started. What were these people looking at just
(03:57):
the rosters alone?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
You know what it is, rag.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
We live in a time to where you know, whatever's hot,
whatever's popular in the moment, that's what people roll with.
And no knock to the Mavericks and their incredible season,
but nobody really leading up into the playoffs had them
as a team that we thought would win it all
or even really be in the finals. For the most part,
we thought that would be the nuggest team. Some people
(04:22):
had the Clippers, some people had you know, the Sons.
It was a lot. It was a lot of different
names being thrown out outside of the Meerican Mavericks hit
this stride. Yes, the Mavericks hit this stride and then
they became America's most popular team. I mean a season ago,
two season ago, Kyrie was the most hated gowns planet.
(04:44):
Now now he's leading the charges America's team right now.
So it's we live this is just the time and age.
We live in one minute, one in one moment, they
can hate you. In the next moment, you're You're the
most popular thing walking. So I think we just I
think we're a victim of you know what's hot at
the time.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
And you know a lot of.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
People were rolling with the Mavericks and deservingly so. They
played incredible, they performed at a high level, and they
were a very very entertaining team to watch.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So understanding, understandingly.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So, but when you when it comes to the reality
of it and you really look at that Boston Celtics team,
anybody that really really knows who can analyze the game
for what it is knew that Boston was a favorite
to win it this year.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And look, Luca, I still think, you know, if you're
just going off, who is the best player on the court,
I still think it's Luka doncc I mean, he didn't
perform the best in the finals but he is the
all around best player on the court. But the Celtics
showed that's not always true that the best team with
the best player wins. That this was the best team,
and especially the fact that you know, we're getting into
a little bit later in the show about the MVP,
(05:50):
but the fact that it was even a question tells
you that they have a lot of good people who
could have been MVP. I mean, not only are we
talking about Jason and Jalen, but Drew Holliday put it
in like an VP style campaign the first couple of games,
and Tatum and Brown specifically have been through so much
at the beginning when they made that first conference finals,
everyone just thought, look at these young kids, their head
(06:12):
of schedule, Jason Tatum loves Kobe, shoots like Kobe. This
is a miracle. It's going to be great for the
next few years. And then over the next eight years
you go from wonder kid to oh, I haven't you
won yet? And in fact, the one hundred and seven
games book that Tatum and Brown played together before last
night were the most by a duo prior to winning
their first NBA championship, So nobody has played longer and
(06:34):
won than the two of them together, so it was Look,
it took them a while to get here. I do
want to play you with clip real quick because their
road has been heavily scrutinized. And they were talking their
talk last night Brad Stevens. You know how reserved he
is normally. I just asked him a question about the
criticism that the Jays have gotten and listen to what
he said. The road for the Jalen the Jays, Jalen
(06:58):
and Jason to seize a lot of the early criticism
they took and then to have them be able to
pay it on here. What does that mean to you
as someone who's coached them and then nurtured them through
their organization.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I think criticism student, So I don't care. I'm a
Jalen on that.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Like.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
You know, those two had achieved more than most twenty
five and twenty six year olds ever had, and the
only reason they received scrutiny was because they were playing
in late May and ju And you know, as a
good friend of mine said, I'd rather be in the
mix and have my guts ripped out and suck. Those
(07:35):
two guys have been really good a long time.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts
ripped down and suck. I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But he's right, right, He's absolutely right, And I mean
we kind of spoke on that before, Like people got
bored with this duo success early and the fact that
they couldn't finish it off, you know that the way
that a lot of people expected or want it. I mean,
that's that's that's kind of how it goes in sports.
(08:02):
But you have to credit these guys for the success
they've had early on in their career and at such
a young age. That's unheard of in any league, in
any professional league, it's hard to win, but it's also
hard to win young and in that learning curve process,
these guys came in with early success and they've been
nothing but successful since. So I think this could be
(08:25):
the mark of a dynasty run. In my opinion, I
think this could be a start of it. So it's excited.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
How much better do you think Brown and Tatum can get?
Because Brown has made Gent's made a really big deal
in these finals about how he addressed all these weaknesses
people said about him, and that he knew he had
and that he worked his ass off to fix them.
So do you think that they're done or finished products,
or do you think, you know, twenty five twenty six
years old, or do you think that they can actually continue.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
To get better twenty five twenty six, they're just scratching
the surface.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
These guys haven't even hit their prime yet.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Your prime doesn't happen until like twenty eight, maybe thirty two,
thirty three. And these dudes are a special, special duo.
I think we'll see a lot more success from this duo.
And like I said, I think at this point, now
that they've learned how to do it, they know how
to do it, they've completed the assignment, I think they
(09:20):
can run off two three more. So I think it's
very possible for this for this these two guys to
be the moving point of this league. Like from this
point forward, I could see that happen.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Look, the East is easier than the West, right, I mean,
if we think about the teams that are gonna be
competing and come out of the West next year, it's ridiculous.
But in the East you do have the Sixers that
are going to try to add a piece this summer
and have Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxi you do have
New York that's coming on, you know, Cleveland if they
can retain Donovan Mitchell. Do you see Boston kind of
(09:52):
having that footprint in the East. I mean, they've already
been to six out of the last eight Eastern Conference finals,
so that they've already been there. But do you see
them just sort of being the team in the e
the way for a couple of years, the Celtics were
the team in the Eastern and then for a stretch,
it was always the Cavaliers, the Cavaliers, the Cavaliers. I mean,
do you think that Boston We're going to get that
from them? Or do you think Milwaukee's gonna have a say?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I think from this point moving forward, the conversation in
the East will now start wash who's the second best
team in the league, in the Eastern Conference. I think
Boston has solidified itself this team. The crazy part about this,
they just won in dominant fashion, But this entire team
is returning next year, the entire team, So that lets
(10:35):
you that lets you know right there where this is
about to go. The conversation in the East is strictly
about who's second. Like that's it, because we know who
the number one team in the East is.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Well write about bringing back. We also saw a Celtics
owner with Grossbeck in the locker room. Here's what he
told me. Listen to this one. I didn't feel to
have finally delivered this to the city.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It's been a while.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Boston is a city of champions. Once again. Rights on Friday,
and then we'll go do it together. I was gonna say.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Domaza said he's ready to start right now. It wants
another one.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
I'm not ready to start right now. We'll start pretty soon.
We'll bring on this whole team back. Bring the whole
team back next year. Look out world.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So, first of all, book the idea that an owner
is sitting there and said I will pay the money
to retain the entire team, which is not what we
saw necessarily from a couple of the last championship teams.
What do you think of that? And do you think
the formula for them is to run it back or
should they keep tweaking?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Man, Well, one, that's that's beautiful to hear as an organization,
as a as as one of the guys on the team.
You want to hear your owner speaking that way. And
uh in this league, if you want to win, you
got to spend, and that's just how it works. It's
really really hard to build a championship team and be
under the cap, Like that's just not really a possible.
(12:01):
And as far as making any moves or tweaks, like
I said, this team dominated this season, Like, I don't
even know who you could really consider the second best
team in the league. I mean, obviously we could say
the Mavericks, but statistically, what's the second best team in
the league after Boston? And I don't see anybody close
(12:25):
to this team or even if they are to make
improvements in this next season, I still don't see anything
close to the talent on this roster. So if I'm them,
I'm sitting still. I'm entering next season with the same group.
We're gonna run it back again. And the crazy thing
is they weren't even one hundred percent healthy theirselves. We
didn't see it on a KP at one hundred percent,
(12:47):
So it's it's still kind of a situation of how
dominant is this team really We still have yet to
really see that, So that's scary when you actually think
about it.
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(13:52):
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by joining Wondery Plus. Well. To me, KP is kind
of the question here with the roster, And first of all,
I'm thrilled for him. I've known him since he was
a rookie in New York. I spent a lot of
(14:12):
time around him then, and you know his injuries he's
had and difficult stops along the way, and the fact
that you know he loves the bright lights, and the
fact that he paid it off in that city, in
that arena and was an important part even though he
was injured. It's kind of like you book in that
game one of the finals he played in Golden State,
like he came out there and he did what he
needed to be done for the team in that period.
He did it again last night. So he's certainly an
(14:34):
important part of this team and he's been an important
part of this franchise for this entire season. But the
question about him when they traded for him was can
he stay healthy? And the answer was no. He missed
the huge chunk of the playoffs and then he missed
more than half of the finals. And when you let's
say you play Denver next year, I mean, because that's
that's a different matchup. And I'm not saying, by the way,
(14:56):
I'm not saying, oh, if they played Denver, then Boston
might not have won. Boston won Boston as the champion,
but Denver would give them a different challenge and you
would need someone like Kristaps porzingis there for that matchup.
So do you just cross your fingers and say, Okay,
next year he's going to stay healthy or do you
have to sort of make some moves there?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Like I said, all you can go by is the results,
and the results were we want in a dominant fashion.
So to sit there and be like, well, we need
to tweak anything, I feel like you don't try to
fix anything that's not broken. And obviously you could always
try to find an insurance piece. Let me get a
guy that I know can come in and fill that
(15:38):
road in case KP isn't healthy. So I could see
that being a move. But based on that starting five
and just the foundation of the roster, I don't change anything.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I'm confident with this group and I continue to move forward.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, all Herford's got one year left. I know he's,
you know, as old as the hills as he likes
to say, but he gave them good minutes. I mean,
he did what he needed to do. Tatum is about
to sign this crazy deal. Member Jalen Brown had the
biggest contract in NBA history. Well, Jason Tatum is about
to top that this summer. Derek White, they're going to
have to figure out because he's an unrestricted free agent
(16:15):
next season, so he will be playing on an expiring
contract basically. So there are some questions here, but the
fact that the owner says, I'm going to spend the money,
I'm going to bring them all back is so refreshing.
Because it is harder and harder and harder to build
a championship team. They are changing the rules starting this
year to make it more difficult to you get penalized
more with luxury tax if you have more than two
(16:37):
high profile, high roller players on your roster. It is
to get to this position, is I don't know if
you can build a team like this again because the
rules have changed. So to not put your foot on
the gas and spend the money now is it would
be so shortsighted. But we've seen owners do it. We've
seen owners get to the top of the mountain and
be like, okay, let me not go keep on all in,
(17:00):
let me cut some costs. And I never understand it
because it will be a decade or more with most
of these teams to get back here. Look at the
Celtics themselves, I mean, they've been very good for a
lot of this time and they still hadn't won a
title since two thousand and eight. So I just think,
if you're in this position the Celtics are in now,
you spend all the money and then if in two
or three years, four years that you know you're out
(17:24):
and you have a bad team, you at least have
two or three championships to show for it.
Speaker 7 (17:28):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
When we look at Dallas, They've got their own situation
to figure out.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
If we look, I'm looking at some stats Producer Night
just put up. They averaged ninety three and a half
points in their losses in this final. That was compared
to one hundred and eighteen that they averaged during the
regular season, So a huge production drop there. Obviously, the
Boston defense had something to say about that, but there
will always be a tough defense if you make it
that far. Luca, on the other hand, I mean he
did a dumb thing in game three, and I know
(17:58):
that he regrets it, and he's got some habits there
that came out of that game that showed up that
he's just he's got to clean up. He's just got
to clean up some of those habits talking the officials,
not playing the defense that he is capable of playing. Frankly,
being in the best shape of his life at the
end of the season is not something he's really prioritized
up until now. And we saw Nikola Jokic. I mean,
(18:19):
you remember Boog used to be kind of pudgy, used
to you know, get back on defense was hard for him,
and then he completely changed his diet, completely changed his
workout pattern, buckled down and became, frankly a different player.
I mean, rose to that multiple time MVP levels. So
I think Luka was second on my MVP ballot this year.
I think he will be in the MVP consideration, But
(18:39):
if he wants to win a finals, he's got to
clean up some of those habits. That all being said,
he's fucking amazing. I mean the things you see him
do are just mind blowing.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
And it doesn't get old for me. Does it get
old for you watching him offensive.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
No, it doesn't. It does absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I could I could watch that guy play basketball every
single day and never get bored. But I agree with you,
Rach it is some things that have to be cleaned
up within that Mavericks team and specifically with you know,
individuals on the roster and Uh, I do want to piggyback,
like when it comes to greatness, when it comes to
you know, putting yourself you know, in that tier of
(19:24):
of the other grace, which Luca is, it comes with
a lot of responsibility and similar to kind of how
Tatum and UH and Jalen Brown had to continue to
go through that ring kind to kind of finally figure
it out, I think Lucas also grown through that process himself.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I do feel he.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Improves with each year with some of the bad habits
or some of the you know, things that create a
negative for him on the court. But you know the
same criticism that you know Zion has received for you
know not quite being there I received into my career,
you know, some of the other grades Shoulquille on it.
Nobody is exempt from it. Until you embrace that part.
(20:08):
It's it's hard to find success at the end and
you know, some guys slip through the crack, But uh,
I think when it comes to the Mavericks improve and
I think that part alone will improve their entire roster.
If we can get one hundred percent in shape Luca
from start to finish. We don't want to keep you know,
(20:29):
going through these playoffs and you know you're breaking down
because your body's not physically fit. We've watched you do
it time and time again. So you now have to
go in to the offseason and figure out a way.
How can I correct that? How can I prevent that
from being you know, one of the negatives or one
of the weaknesses when it comes to me finishing out
the season strong or you know, finishing or being one
hundred percent healthy to push my team all the way
(20:51):
to the end.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I think that was a big factor and why they lost.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Obviously they can improve with getting talent, but if your
lead horse is in a hundred percent there, it's gonna
be hard to find success at the end. And that's
just the facts of the matter. You know, Luca is
an incredible player in this league. You know, arguably could
say he's the best player in the league. I'm cool
with saying all of that, But in order for him
to take that next jump, he has to self reflect
(21:18):
and self improve on just his end and hold his
self accountable, like being the leader of that team, hold
your self accountable. There is nothing wrong with, you know,
self reflecting and improving in the offseason. That's part of it,
and I think that's the next step for him.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I mean, it's a pretty rich problem to have if
you're the Mavericks, that you already have this guy on
your roster who is one of the best players in
the entire planet, and he's got this big chunk of
room to improve. I mean, that's crazy, right. I Mean, normally,
if you've got a guy at that level, he is
topped out. And yet the Mavericks have a guy who
is already up here, and yet could could just just
(21:56):
by doing things himself, not with the trades, not with
free agency, not the salary cap, that just by doing
a few things. And again, like overall, he's incredible, but
just the fact that he does have the room to
make these small improvements, it's just kind of mind blowing
luxury that the Mavericks have. I do think they're going
to tweak some of the pieces around the Edges. I
don't expect some big, huge trade from them, but I
(22:17):
think they showed with this run. The tweaking the pieces
around the Edges, you know, the Gaffords, the PJ. Washington's
that kind of thing that is a secret to winning.
I love the Kyrie Luca partnership. I'm not expecting Kyrie
to blow up every game, but he poured in thirty
forty points when it counted several times during this playoff run. Apparently,
as long as he's not playing in Boston, he can
(22:40):
contribute at a high level. So that's kind of what
I expect from them. Before we move on to other
teams around the league, though, I do want to hit
you on the MVP question because last night there is
there is some suspense as we waited for Adam Silver
to announce the MVP as he had that microphone. Who
did you think whose name? Did you think he was
(23:00):
going to say? Whose name did you have on your head?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I think Jayleen Brown was very deserving of that call.
I'm not mad at that decision, but to be totally honest,
I think it could have been Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum,
or Drew Holliday. They all and Obviously, when it comes
to Tatum, he didn't have his best offensive performance, but
everything else he brought to the game. And I'm paying
(23:25):
attention to everything. It's not just if he's making shots
or not. The way he's facilitating, the way he's you know,
getting guys involved, he's playmaking, he's defending. All of those
small things he did at a really, really high level,
which still contributed to this team winning. And it's crazy
to say their arguably best player did not perform well
(23:50):
and they still wanted dominating fashion. So, like I said,
that's just mind blowing to me. But to go back
to your question, Tatum easily could have done it with
it's all around performance. I think Jalen Brown was on
an absolute mission this year to prove his worth. I
think he did that beyond words at this point, I
(24:12):
think he's shut up a lot of than they said.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
At this point, it doesn't matter who's the who's the
one A or one B. We're an incredible tandem. At
one point, I can lead, At the next point, he
can lead, and we're totally fine with that. The way
they embraced each other, the way they show love for
one another, I think that was a beautiful thing. And
like I said, I think that killed that narrative that
you know was trying to be created. And and now
(24:37):
you just have to respect these two as a duo.
That's that's champions and have a chance to continue to
be champions. So and then Drew Holliday. Drew Holliday with
the way he performed defensively, I mean, he's it's a
master work, like it's it's a sensey out there just
going through the motions and just doing what he does.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
So shout out to Drew, two time champion.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I mean, when you're out there with him, what does
he do on the court that just makes everyone's lives easier?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Exactly what you say, he just makes everybody's life easier.
I remember being teammates with with Drew Holliday and at
that point in our career, me and A d brought
the ball up the floor a lot. Drew being one
of the you know, top pgs in the league at
the time, could have easily you know, been egotistical about him,
like I'm the point guard, I bring the ball up.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, this guy would literally get a rebound.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
To throw the ball to me, a a d to
bring the ball up because he knew what type of
offense we could create with their bigs having to guard
us in the open floor.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
But just that level of unselfishness and that.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
And being cool with, you know, being in the backseat
of being a passenger like that goes a long way
for a championship team or a team in general.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
So just that aspect and what he brings to the game.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
It obviously changed that time I heard Celtic's roster and
it's part of a huge part of the reason that
they are now champions.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I mean, it is crazy when you look back on
it that Milwaukee made that trade and handed the keys
to Portland to decide where Drew would go because we knew.
We knew the minute that trade happened, Portland wasn't keeping him. Right,
there was no question Drew never got on a plane
to Portland. They were always going to turn around and
deal him. And for Milwaukee to make that decision, I
(26:27):
don't know, man. I mean, it's not an aspect that
we talked about a ton the day that the Damian
Lillard came, because you know, obviously we're focused on Damian
Lillard and Drew Holliday going out and it was sort
of like, Oh, where's Drew going to go? That was
the question we were asking. But I don't think we
really focused on the fact that they gave up control
in that situation and it really cost them because it
literally the most valuable guy asset that was going around
(26:49):
last summer went to their biggest rival. And I just
think he's the king of the hockey assist I wish
the NBA kept hockey assist stats. If they did, I
think Drew Holliday would blow everyone away this place. Like
I just I can't say enough good things about him.
I love when he played with you. I just I
don't know, man, He's so deserving, great guy off the court.
Same thing for Jalen Brown, same thing for Jason Tatum.
(27:10):
But I mean, you know what Jalen Brown does in
the community, what Drew Holliday does on it. He and
his wife do incredible community work. What they do on
every team that they get on. I don't know, man,
I just these are good guys. These are good guys
who are being rewarded, and I think that's pretty awesome.
They are also favorites Boogie for next year's title. We're
just talking about whether they can win it or not.
Here are the odds DraftKings. I'll take that bet. Are
(27:33):
you ready to start already laying down money for next season?
Because Chelsea Celtics heavy favorites plus two ninety, so you
can still make money. It's it's not one of those
bets where it's sort of like, you know, you spend
a dollar and you make a dollar plus two ninety.
Denver's next plus eight hundred. It's interesting, Okay, see next.
(27:53):
That kind of surprised me a little bit. Eight fifty
MAVs one thousand plus one thousand. Those are the six
best odds. So what better are you taking there? Or
are you surprised not to see someone else high on
the list.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Obviously I'm gonna roll with the champion Celtics. I think
they'll be dominating Nature as well.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
But my next bet will probably be okayc and really,
and the reason I say that is they got so.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Much draft capital, they got so much money to play with,
Like they're one star away from dominating the league theirselves,
so I think. And then on top of that, the
you know, trusting in Sam Pressey to make the decisions
for this organization that's obviously worked for them over and
(28:42):
over again. But I think he'll make the perfect decision
and improve that team this summer. So I'm excited to
see what they do as well.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Funny you mentioned one player away Buggie Cousins, because they
have new rules at the NBA in terms of free agency,
new rules all around this year. This is what happens
to a new CBA. But the free agency question has
changed because it used to be that even with your
own free agents, you had to wait a couple weeks
to talk to them, which was always ridiculous because we
knew everybody was talking any but anyway, I mean, it
(29:12):
just was. I think these tampering rules are insane. They
wiped away at least talked to your own guys, because
the idea that you weren't already talking to your own
guys is nuts. So as of today, as we sit
here on Tuesday morning, teams can talk to their own
players and make them offers. And some of the big
guys we're going to be watching our Paul George of
course with the Clippers, Klay Thompson with the Warriors, DeMar
De Rosen up in Chicago, and og and Nanobi og
(29:36):
Nanobi feels like a lock of where he's going. His
agent is president of the next Leon Rose's son. So
in case you had any question about how thanks to
giving dinner was going to go there, it was not
with oh, you took one of my players away and
got him on another team. It is yes, dad, and
here you go. And Oji wants to be there, obviously,
(29:58):
But when you look at some of those other names,
Paul George is obviously the huge, huge mover on that list.
You know, we saw Joel Embiid already campaigning to get
him in Philadelphia. There's talk that Orlando wants to make
a big offer to both Paul George and Klay Thompson.
What do you think? I mean, I think Paul George
has a really interesting decision to make. The Clippers were
not offering him the full max through these contract extension
(30:21):
negotiations they've had through the season, and they didn't Pickkwhi
the full max either. And part of the reason I
think Paul, unlike Kawhi, held on to this opportunity to
be a free agent, is that even if he wants
to stay with the Clippers, he wants more money. And
I think it's a real question of do you stay
in the West. Do you stay with this team where
your partner in crime has had health issues throughout the
(30:43):
entire time that you guys have been playing together. You
know how competitive you just talked about Oklahoma City. We
can name you know, Wemby and the Spurs. We can
name all these teams on the come up, plus Denver
plus the Mavericks plus Minnesota. Do you go to the
East and be on a team like Philmladelphia with Joel
Embiid and Tyrese Maxi And of course you've got you know,
(31:05):
Damian Lillard and Giannis over there too, so it's not
all a cakewalk. But what would you do if you're
in that position?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, when it comes to Paul, for me, it just
it gotta make sense.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And we've watched this guy spend most of his early
career just talk about how bad.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
He wanted to play in LA. He's finally gotten to
that point.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I just don't see that changing late in your
career now, as far as you know him, having a
start partner in Kawhi who's always injured, why the hell
would you go to Philadelphia? And that's the same situation,
except it's a younger guy. So that being the thought process.
(31:48):
I just don't see that winning him over as well either.
But I feel like this is a situation where the
Clippers will come to their senses. They will give him
what he's looking for this contract. Obviously, when it comes
to negotiating, you have to sometimes have leverage. You have
to show that it's other people interested and they're willing
(32:09):
to get that money. The Clippers will come to their senses,
and I believe Paul will be back with the Clippers.
They'd only make sense them moving into a new arena.
You don't want to let one of your star guys go.
It just doesn't make sense. So I think that they
will come to their senses and you know, we'll see
Paul and the Clipper sures.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I mean, look why I give up that leverage that
he had, and now he's going to go on the
open market. Everybody knows how valuable he is. And you know,
even if he stays right in LA, he's going to
get significantly more money, I think, than he would have
gotten if he had signed the extension over the season.
So smart move by him. Klay Thompson is the bigger
question though, book and I do want to hit him
before we go here. You played with the Warriors. You
(32:49):
saw that Warriors nucleus, the way Clay, Steph Draymond operate.
I mean, they're kind of one brain on that team.
And Clay has said he is going to go out
and listen to other offers, and the Warriors have said
we'd like to have him back, but it's clear they're
not gonna like, they're not gonna max him out. I mean,
he's definitely on the decline of what he was in
his prime, which there's no shame in that, and that's
(33:12):
what happens as you get older. And I wonder if
Clay himself is going to solve this problem for the
Warriors of do they focus on keeping the nucleus at
all costs and maybe not win another title, or do
they make some major changes to put them back on
Steph Curry back in contention. I don't know, it's gonna
just take the money in Orlando, or do you think
that he'd take lesson stay with Golden State.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think Clay is thinking take the money, and obviously
there's I don't really see light at the end of
the tunnel for the Warriors in the position that they're
in right now. I think we're now starting to see
the beginning of, you know, a dynasty end. And that's
okay everyone. It happens to every dynasty that's ever happened.
(33:59):
But I don't understand why so much. You know, certainty
when it comes to Clay going to a team like Orlando,
I can see Clay fitting in with an okay See
and actually putting them over the rump.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
So for me, there's just the one where there's a
lot of noise around. But you're right, there's a lot
of teams that might.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Want to I can see okay See sliding in and
also offering the same amount of money, and he fit in.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
He fits in seamlessly with that team.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I think he's the type of player they're actually looking
for instead of Josh Giddy being in that spot. You
gotta lay Thompson so that improves their team.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Draft makes by far, but uh, but I think it's
a real threat for Clay to leave.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
It's just the beginning of the end. And that's okay.
They had an incredible run. They pushed the league to
new heights. What they've done is historical. It's obviously league history,
but I think it's the beginning of the end for
that franchise.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, I mean four titles, so you can ever argue
with that. It is interesting though, because Steph is talked
about how hungry is still to win. If Clay does leave,
that opens up more flexibility for them, and then they
become another interesting team in the West. Because I'm I
believe in Steph Curry basketball teams. You're gonna have to
(35:18):
once he's dragged off the floor, fine, but when as
long as he's playing, I'm in for them having a
shot at it. And if they can upgrade that roster.
If Clay does decide to leave and that leaves them
more flexibility, I'm curious to see it is. It's crazy
to think that we just ended the season last night, Boog,
and it's going to be a wild summer, and it's
going to be another wild year next year. This game
(35:39):
is just it gives us so much. It's so much fun.
We've got Summer League coming up, We've got the Olympics
coming up. Basically, the entire NBA is going to come
to your house, Boogie Cousins. You live in Las Vegas,
and the whole league is doing a company move there.
Over the next month. You will see temsa practice there
in July. You will see Summer League there in July,
and maybe Boogie'll barbecue for all of us. We'll see,
(36:01):
we'll find out.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
We'll see if it's enough barbecue for all that.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
Right, We at Bully Ball are going to be taking
a break because the season's over, but we will be
catching you on other parts of the All the Smoke
Productions platforms.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
You'll see booking and I quite a bit, and you know,
go back and and listen to past episodes. You can
catch all of our episodes on the DraftKings Network, on
the All the Smoke Productions YouTube channel wherever people get
their podcasts and book I just want to say thank
you to you. This was a new venture for us
this year. You have, you know, set such an example
of stepping into your NBA retirement but also just being
(36:35):
able to play the game you love. I've said this
a bunch of times. When I say it again, I
so admire the fact that you want to compete and
you have that desire to poop and play ball, that
you just want to do it. And I think that's
an incredible example to set for people. And I think
it's fun for you and finals, MVP and champion of
your league over there in Taiwan. But I just I
(36:56):
want to thank you because it's been so much fun
basketball talk this year, and I'm saying for more.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I appreciate you, Rach, and I want to thank you
as well. Thank you for this opportunity, thank you for
inviting me to this lane, and we're gonna go places.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I'm excited, absolutely, absolutely all right, We will see you
guys as we go this summer signing off for the
season though.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Peace
Welcome back to bully Ball, presented by DraftKings. I'm Rachel Nichols,
that as always is mister DeMarcus Cousins and Boog. You
can tell we're on the last one of the season
because the plant is gone. It's just a white wall
behind you. It's all you can give. You've left it
all out on the court. I'm glad you're home, man,
but I do miss the plant.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Plants in stores right now. So you know he'll be
back for next season. You know he went on an
early vacation. We're all headed Todd vacations. Season's over, so
you know this is the last one for this year.
So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You know who's not tired, Boogie Cousins. The Boston Celtics.
They are still waiting for their parade on Friday. They
are celebrating. I'm here in Boston. The streets were crazy
last night. The arena was hopping. I'm not saying that
they threw Game four. I mean, obviously they did not
ro Game four, but the idea that they got to
win on their floor, I just think is so special,
(01:05):
and you could just the outpouring was incredible last night.
What impressed you most from everything you saw.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I don't think I've ever seen a more complete season
from a team, just the way they dominated throughout the
regular season. I mean, can we sit here and say,
this may be the first team that really didn't face
any type of adversity and if it did, it was
you know, it was minimal. And I'm not saying that
(01:35):
in a negative way. I'm more so saying it like
this team was that good, Like they never really struggled
at any point during the season, even when with some
injuries they were able to, you know, maintain keep afloat.
But this was probably one of the best seasons from
start to finish that I've seen from a professional team.
(01:56):
And it's been very, very impressive. So, you know, even
considering how great the playoff run was, just as a
complete hole, I think this team deserves credit. They've obviously
learned from their past seasons, They've learned from their past mistakes,
and you know, they figured it out. They figured it
(02:16):
out at the right time. They put the perfect pieces
in place to make everything compliment you know, each other,
and you know, this was the perfect season for the
Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, I don't think it's really adversity anymore now that
they've won. I think it's more just talking about that
they crushed everything in their path, Like there wasn't a
lot of oh my god, you know the wheels are
falling off moments, not because no one challenged them. I
think the Dallas Mavericks were a pretty huge challenge for them,
but just because they were that good and we saw it,
of course with the twenty sixteen Warriors. I mean, there've
been teams like this, but I just it's super impressive.
(02:50):
Wire to wire from the very beginning of the season
to the last day of the season, they were ahead
of everybody else. And you know, you can't win that
eighteenth banner and anymore pressive way than that best offensive
rating ever is what they're going to finish with, top
five in point differential, sixty four and eighteen eighty and
twenty one including the playoffs on the season. I just,
(03:14):
you know, anyway, and there's still people I'm telling you,
I still I turned on my TV this morning and
I still saw people talking about like, well, they had
an easy path because of all the injuries in the
Eastern Conference. You know what I'm done with that? Like, yes,
of course, you know, the East is easier than the West.
Guess what, This is not the first season that that
has been the case, and it will not be the
(03:35):
last season that has been the case. Next year the
West is going to be just a dogfight. But they
beat everyone in front of them, and they faced a
Mavericks team that a lot of people picked to win
this title. You go back, a lot of the picks
before this finals were for the Mavericks, which you and
I didn't understand. We talked about it the day before
the finals started. What were these people looking at just
(03:57):
the rosters alone?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
You know what it is, rag.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
We live in a time to where you know, whatever's hot,
whatever's popular in the moment, that's what people roll with.
And no knock to the Mavericks and their incredible season,
but nobody really leading up into the playoffs had them
as a team that we thought would win it all
or even really be in the finals. For the most part,
we thought that would be the nuggest team. Some people
(04:22):
had the Clippers, some people had you know, the Sons.
It was a lot. It was a lot of different
names being thrown out outside of the Meerican Mavericks hit
this stride. Yes, the Mavericks hit this stride and then
they became America's most popular team. I mean a season ago,
two season ago, Kyrie was the most hated gowns planet.
(04:44):
Now now he's leading the charges America's team right now.
So it's we live this is just the time and age.
We live in one minute, one in one moment, they
can hate you. In the next moment, you're You're the
most popular thing walking. So I think we just I
think we're a victim of you know what's hot at
the time.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
And you know a lot of.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
People were rolling with the Mavericks and deservingly so. They
played incredible, they performed at a high level, and they
were a very very entertaining team to watch.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So understanding, understandingly.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So, but when you when it comes to the reality
of it and you really look at that Boston Celtics team,
anybody that really really knows who can analyze the game
for what it is knew that Boston was a favorite
to win it this year.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And look, Luca, I still think, you know, if you're
just going off, who is the best player on the court,
I still think it's Luka doncc I mean, he didn't
perform the best in the finals but he is the
all around best player on the court. But the Celtics
showed that's not always true that the best team with
the best player wins. That this was the best team,
and especially the fact that you know, we're getting into
a little bit later in the show about the MVP,
(05:50):
but the fact that it was even a question tells
you that they have a lot of good people who
could have been MVP. I mean, not only are we
talking about Jason and Jalen, but Drew Holliday put it
in like an VP style campaign the first couple of games,
and Tatum and Brown specifically have been through so much
at the beginning when they made that first conference finals,
everyone just thought, look at these young kids, their head
(06:12):
of schedule, Jason Tatum loves Kobe, shoots like Kobe. This
is a miracle. It's going to be great for the
next few years. And then over the next eight years
you go from wonder kid to oh, I haven't you
won yet? And in fact, the one hundred and seven
games book that Tatum and Brown played together before last
night were the most by a duo prior to winning
their first NBA championship, So nobody has played longer and
(06:34):
won than the two of them together, so it was Look,
it took them a while to get here. I do
want to play you with clip real quick because their
road has been heavily scrutinized. And they were talking their
talk last night Brad Stevens. You know how reserved he
is normally. I just asked him a question about the
criticism that the Jays have gotten and listen to what
he said. The road for the Jalen the Jays, Jalen
(06:58):
and Jason to seize a lot of the early criticism
they took and then to have them be able to
pay it on here. What does that mean to you
as someone who's coached them and then nurtured them through
their organization.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I think criticism student, So I don't care. I'm a
Jalen on that.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Like.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
You know, those two had achieved more than most twenty
five and twenty six year olds ever had, and the
only reason they received scrutiny was because they were playing
in late May and ju And you know, as a
good friend of mine said, I'd rather be in the
mix and have my guts ripped out and suck. Those
(07:35):
two guys have been really good a long time.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts
ripped down and suck. I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But he's right, right, He's absolutely right, And I mean
we kind of spoke on that before, Like people got
bored with this duo success early and the fact that
they couldn't finish it off, you know that the way
that a lot of people expected or want it. I mean,
that's that's that's kind of how it goes in sports.
(08:02):
But you have to credit these guys for the success
they've had early on in their career and at such
a young age. That's unheard of in any league, in
any professional league, it's hard to win, but it's also
hard to win young and in that learning curve process,
these guys came in with early success and they've been
nothing but successful since. So I think this could be
(08:25):
the mark of a dynasty run. In my opinion, I
think this could be a start of it. So it's excited.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
How much better do you think Brown and Tatum can get?
Because Brown has made Gent's made a really big deal
in these finals about how he addressed all these weaknesses
people said about him, and that he knew he had
and that he worked his ass off to fix them.
So do you think that they're done or finished products,
or do you think, you know, twenty five twenty six
years old, or do you think that they can actually continue.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
To get better twenty five twenty six, they're just scratching
the surface.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
These guys haven't even hit their prime yet.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Your prime doesn't happen until like twenty eight, maybe thirty two,
thirty three. And these dudes are a special, special duo.
I think we'll see a lot more success from this duo.
And like I said, I think at this point, now
that they've learned how to do it, they know how
to do it, they've completed the assignment, I think they
(09:20):
can run off two three more. So I think it's
very possible for this for this these two guys to
be the moving point of this league. Like from this
point forward, I could see that happen.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Look, the East is easier than the West, right, I mean,
if we think about the teams that are gonna be
competing and come out of the West next year, it's ridiculous.
But in the East you do have the Sixers that
are going to try to add a piece this summer
and have Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxi you do have
New York that's coming on, you know, Cleveland if they
can retain Donovan Mitchell. Do you see Boston kind of
(09:52):
having that footprint in the East. I mean, they've already
been to six out of the last eight Eastern Conference finals,
so that they've already been there. But do you see
them just sort of being the team in the e
the way for a couple of years, the Celtics were
the team in the Eastern and then for a stretch,
it was always the Cavaliers, the Cavaliers, the Cavaliers. I mean,
do you think that Boston We're going to get that
from them? Or do you think Milwaukee's gonna have a say?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I think from this point moving forward, the conversation in
the East will now start wash who's the second best
team in the league, in the Eastern Conference. I think
Boston has solidified itself this team. The crazy part about this,
they just won in dominant fashion, But this entire team
is returning next year, the entire team, So that lets
(10:35):
you that lets you know right there where this is
about to go. The conversation in the East is strictly
about who's second. Like that's it, because we know who
the number one team in the East is.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Well write about bringing back. We also saw a Celtics
owner with Grossbeck in the locker room. Here's what he
told me. Listen to this one. I didn't feel to
have finally delivered this to the city.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It's been a while.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Boston is a city of champions. Once again. Rights on Friday,
and then we'll go do it together. I was gonna say.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Domaza said he's ready to start right now. It wants
another one.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
I'm not ready to start right now. We'll start pretty soon.
We'll bring on this whole team back. Bring the whole
team back next year. Look out world.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So, first of all, book the idea that an owner
is sitting there and said I will pay the money
to retain the entire team, which is not what we
saw necessarily from a couple of the last championship teams.
What do you think of that? And do you think
the formula for them is to run it back or
should they keep tweaking?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Man, Well, one, that's that's beautiful to hear as an organization,
as a as as one of the guys on the team.
You want to hear your owner speaking that way. And
uh in this league, if you want to win, you
got to spend, and that's just how it works. It's
really really hard to build a championship team and be
under the cap, Like that's just not really a possible.
(12:01):
And as far as making any moves or tweaks, like
I said, this team dominated this season, Like, I don't
even know who you could really consider the second best
team in the league. I mean, obviously we could say
the Mavericks, but statistically, what's the second best team in
the league after Boston? And I don't see anybody close
(12:25):
to this team or even if they are to make
improvements in this next season, I still don't see anything
close to the talent on this roster. So if I'm them,
I'm sitting still. I'm entering next season with the same group.
We're gonna run it back again. And the crazy thing
is they weren't even one hundred percent healthy theirselves. We
didn't see it on a KP at one hundred percent,
(12:47):
So it's it's still kind of a situation of how
dominant is this team really We still have yet to
really see that, So that's scary when you actually think
about it.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
Have you ever wondered if check home and might be
a descendant of Abraham Lincoln. Or if a UFC fighter
could beat an alien in a fight. Well, maybe you haven't,
and that's okay. But Shay Serrano and Jason CONCEPSI own
from six Trophies. Well they certainly have.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
If you're like me and you'd like to listen to
as many good basketball podcasts as you can after you're
done listening to Bullyball, you gotta listen to six Trophies.
Every week.
Speaker 6 (13:23):
Shay and Jason serve up the biggest moments from around
the NBA with their patented mix of joy banter.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Pop culture side quests. They also hand out six pop
culture themed trophies for six basketball related activities, stuff like
the Denzel Washington and Training Day Trophy that's given out
to a player or team having the best week around
the NBA, or the Lauren Hill. You might win some,
but you just lost one trophy for the team or
player that just can't get it together, plus a bunch
(13:52):
more trophies for all the good, bad, or just plain
head scratching moments around the NBA. So follow Bullyball, but
also follow six Trophy on the Wondery app or wherever
you get your podcasts, or you can listen ad free
by joining Wondery Plus. Well. To me, KP is kind
of the question here with the roster, And first of all,
I'm thrilled for him. I've known him since he was
a rookie in New York. I spent a lot of
(14:12):
time around him then, and you know his injuries he's
had and difficult stops along the way, and the fact
that you know he loves the bright lights, and the
fact that he paid it off in that city, in
that arena and was an important part even though he
was injured. It's kind of like you book in that
game one of the finals he played in Golden State,
like he came out there and he did what he
needed to be done for the team in that period.
He did it again last night. So he's certainly an
(14:34):
important part of this team and he's been an important
part of this franchise for this entire season. But the
question about him when they traded for him was can
he stay healthy? And the answer was no. He missed
the huge chunk of the playoffs and then he missed
more than half of the finals. And when you let's
say you play Denver next year, I mean, because that's
that's a different matchup. And I'm not saying, by the way,
(14:56):
I'm not saying, oh, if they played Denver, then Boston
might not have won. Boston won Boston as the champion,
but Denver would give them a different challenge and you
would need someone like Kristaps porzingis there for that matchup.
So do you just cross your fingers and say, Okay,
next year he's going to stay healthy or do you
have to sort of make some moves there?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Like I said, all you can go by is the results,
and the results were we want in a dominant fashion.
So to sit there and be like, well, we need
to tweak anything, I feel like you don't try to
fix anything that's not broken. And obviously you could always
try to find an insurance piece. Let me get a
guy that I know can come in and fill that
(15:38):
road in case KP isn't healthy. So I could see
that being a move. But based on that starting five
and just the foundation of the roster, I don't change anything.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I'm confident with this group and I continue to move forward.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, all Herford's got one year left. I know he's,
you know, as old as the hills as he likes
to say, but he gave them good minutes. I mean,
he did what he needed to do. Tatum is about
to sign this crazy deal. Member Jalen Brown had the
biggest contract in NBA history. Well, Jason Tatum is about
to top that this summer. Derek White, they're going to
have to figure out because he's an unrestricted free agent
(16:15):
next season, so he will be playing on an expiring
contract basically. So there are some questions here, but the
fact that the owner says, I'm going to spend the money,
I'm going to bring them all back is so refreshing.
Because it is harder and harder and harder to build
a championship team. They are changing the rules starting this
year to make it more difficult to you get penalized
more with luxury tax if you have more than two
(16:37):
high profile, high roller players on your roster. It is
to get to this position, is I don't know if
you can build a team like this again because the
rules have changed. So to not put your foot on
the gas and spend the money now is it would
be so shortsighted. But we've seen owners do it. We've
seen owners get to the top of the mountain and
be like, okay, let me not go keep on all in,
(17:00):
let me cut some costs. And I never understand it
because it will be a decade or more with most
of these teams to get back here. Look at the
Celtics themselves, I mean, they've been very good for a
lot of this time and they still hadn't won a
title since two thousand and eight. So I just think,
if you're in this position the Celtics are in now,
you spend all the money and then if in two
or three years, four years that you know you're out
(17:24):
and you have a bad team, you at least have
two or three championships to show for it.
Speaker 7 (17:28):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
When we look at Dallas, They've got their own situation
to figure out.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
If we look, I'm looking at some stats Producer Night
just put up. They averaged ninety three and a half
points in their losses in this final. That was compared
to one hundred and eighteen that they averaged during the
regular season, So a huge production drop there. Obviously, the
Boston defense had something to say about that, but there
will always be a tough defense if you make it
that far. Luca, on the other hand, I mean he
did a dumb thing in game three, and I know
(17:58):
that he regrets it, and he's got some habits there
that came out of that game that showed up that
he's just he's got to clean up. He's just got
to clean up some of those habits talking the officials,
not playing the defense that he is capable of playing. Frankly,
being in the best shape of his life at the
end of the season is not something he's really prioritized
up until now. And we saw Nikola Jokic. I mean,
(18:19):
you remember Boog used to be kind of pudgy, used
to you know, get back on defense was hard for him,
and then he completely changed his diet, completely changed his
workout pattern, buckled down and became, frankly a different player.
I mean, rose to that multiple time MVP levels. So
I think Luka was second on my MVP ballot this year.
I think he will be in the MVP consideration, But
(18:39):
if he wants to win a finals, he's got to
clean up some of those habits. That all being said,
he's fucking amazing. I mean the things you see him
do are just mind blowing.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
And it doesn't get old for me. Does it get
old for you watching him offensive.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
No, it doesn't. It does absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I could I could watch that guy play basketball every
single day and never get bored. But I agree with you,
Rach it is some things that have to be cleaned
up within that Mavericks team and specifically with you know,
individuals on the roster and Uh, I do want to piggyback,
like when it comes to greatness, when it comes to
you know, putting yourself you know, in that tier of
(19:24):
of the other grace, which Luca is, it comes with
a lot of responsibility and similar to kind of how
Tatum and UH and Jalen Brown had to continue to
go through that ring kind to kind of finally figure
it out, I think Lucas also grown through that process himself.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I do feel he.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Improves with each year with some of the bad habits
or some of the you know, things that create a
negative for him on the court. But you know the
same criticism that you know Zion has received for you
know not quite being there I received into my career,
you know, some of the other grades Shoulquille on it.
Nobody is exempt from it. Until you embrace that part.
(20:08):
It's it's hard to find success at the end and
you know, some guys slip through the crack, But uh,
I think when it comes to the Mavericks improve and
I think that part alone will improve their entire roster.
If we can get one hundred percent in shape Luca
from start to finish. We don't want to keep you know,
(20:29):
going through these playoffs and you know you're breaking down
because your body's not physically fit. We've watched you do
it time and time again. So you now have to
go in to the offseason and figure out a way.
How can I correct that? How can I prevent that
from being you know, one of the negatives or one
of the weaknesses when it comes to me finishing out
the season strong or you know, finishing or being one
hundred percent healthy to push my team all the way
(20:51):
to the end.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I think that was a big factor and why they lost.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Obviously they can improve with getting talent, but if your
lead horse is in a hundred percent there, it's gonna
be hard to find success at the end. And that's
just the facts of the matter. You know, Luca is
an incredible player in this league. You know, arguably could
say he's the best player in the league. I'm cool
with saying all of that, But in order for him
to take that next jump, he has to self reflect
(21:18):
and self improve on just his end and hold his
self accountable, like being the leader of that team, hold
your self accountable. There is nothing wrong with, you know,
self reflecting and improving in the offseason. That's part of it,
and I think that's the next step for him.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I mean, it's a pretty rich problem to have if
you're the Mavericks, that you already have this guy on
your roster who is one of the best players in
the entire planet, and he's got this big chunk of
room to improve. I mean, that's crazy, right. I Mean, normally,
if you've got a guy at that level, he is
topped out. And yet the Mavericks have a guy who
is already up here, and yet could could just just
(21:56):
by doing things himself, not with the trades, not with
free agency, not the salary cap, that just by doing
a few things. And again, like overall, he's incredible, but
just the fact that he does have the room to
make these small improvements, it's just kind of mind blowing
luxury that the Mavericks have. I do think they're going
to tweak some of the pieces around the Edges. I
don't expect some big, huge trade from them, but I
(22:17):
think they showed with this run. The tweaking the pieces
around the Edges, you know, the Gaffords, the PJ. Washington's
that kind of thing that is a secret to winning.
I love the Kyrie Luca partnership. I'm not expecting Kyrie
to blow up every game, but he poured in thirty
forty points when it counted several times during this playoff run. Apparently,
as long as he's not playing in Boston, he can
(22:40):
contribute at a high level. So that's kind of what
I expect from them. Before we move on to other
teams around the league, though, I do want to hit
you on the MVP question because last night there is
there is some suspense as we waited for Adam Silver
to announce the MVP as he had that microphone. Who
did you think whose name? Did you think he was
(23:00):
going to say? Whose name did you have on your head?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I think Jayleen Brown was very deserving of that call.
I'm not mad at that decision, but to be totally honest,
I think it could have been Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum,
or Drew Holliday. They all and Obviously, when it comes
to Tatum, he didn't have his best offensive performance, but
everything else he brought to the game. And I'm paying
(23:25):
attention to everything. It's not just if he's making shots
or not. The way he's facilitating, the way he's you know,
getting guys involved, he's playmaking, he's defending. All of those
small things he did at a really, really high level,
which still contributed to this team winning. And it's crazy
to say their arguably best player did not perform well
(23:50):
and they still wanted dominating fashion. So, like I said,
that's just mind blowing to me. But to go back
to your question, Tatum easily could have done it with
it's all around performance. I think Jalen Brown was on
an absolute mission this year to prove his worth. I
think he did that beyond words at this point, I
(24:12):
think he's shut up a lot of than they said.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
At this point, it doesn't matter who's the who's the
one A or one B. We're an incredible tandem. At
one point, I can lead, At the next point, he
can lead, and we're totally fine with that. The way
they embraced each other, the way they show love for
one another, I think that was a beautiful thing. And
like I said, I think that killed that narrative that
you know was trying to be created. And and now
(24:37):
you just have to respect these two as a duo.
That's that's champions and have a chance to continue to
be champions. So and then Drew Holliday. Drew Holliday with
the way he performed defensively, I mean, he's it's a
master work, like it's it's a sensey out there just
going through the motions and just doing what he does.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
So shout out to Drew, two time champion.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I mean, when you're out there with him, what does
he do on the court that just makes everyone's lives easier?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Exactly what you say, he just makes everybody's life easier.
I remember being teammates with with Drew Holliday and at
that point in our career, me and A d brought
the ball up the floor a lot. Drew being one
of the you know, top pgs in the league at
the time, could have easily you know, been egotistical about him,
like I'm the point guard, I bring the ball up.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, this guy would literally get a rebound.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
To throw the ball to me, a a d to
bring the ball up because he knew what type of
offense we could create with their bigs having to guard
us in the open floor.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
But just that level of unselfishness and that.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
And being cool with, you know, being in the backseat
of being a passenger like that goes a long way
for a championship team or a team in general.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
So just that aspect and what he brings to the game.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
It obviously changed that time I heard Celtic's roster and
it's part of a huge part of the reason that
they are now champions.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I mean, it is crazy when you look back on
it that Milwaukee made that trade and handed the keys
to Portland to decide where Drew would go because we knew.
We knew the minute that trade happened, Portland wasn't keeping him. Right,
there was no question Drew never got on a plane
to Portland. They were always going to turn around and
deal him. And for Milwaukee to make that decision, I
(26:27):
don't know, man. I mean, it's not an aspect that
we talked about a ton the day that the Damian
Lillard came, because you know, obviously we're focused on Damian
Lillard and Drew Holliday going out and it was sort
of like, Oh, where's Drew going to go? That was
the question we were asking. But I don't think we
really focused on the fact that they gave up control
in that situation and it really cost them because it
literally the most valuable guy asset that was going around
(26:49):
last summer went to their biggest rival. And I just
think he's the king of the hockey assist I wish
the NBA kept hockey assist stats. If they did, I
think Drew Holliday would blow everyone away this place. Like
I just I can't say enough good things about him.
I love when he played with you. I just I
don't know, man, He's so deserving, great guy off the court.
Same thing for Jalen Brown, same thing for Jason Tatum.
(27:10):
But I mean, you know what Jalen Brown does in
the community, what Drew Holliday does on it. He and
his wife do incredible community work. What they do on
every team that they get on. I don't know, man,
I just these are good guys. These are good guys
who are being rewarded, and I think that's pretty awesome.
They are also favorites Boogie for next year's title. We're
just talking about whether they can win it or not.
Here are the odds DraftKings. I'll take that bet. Are
(27:33):
you ready to start already laying down money for next season?
Because Chelsea Celtics heavy favorites plus two ninety, so you
can still make money. It's it's not one of those
bets where it's sort of like, you know, you spend
a dollar and you make a dollar plus two ninety.
Denver's next plus eight hundred. It's interesting, Okay, see next.
(27:53):
That kind of surprised me a little bit. Eight fifty
MAVs one thousand plus one thousand. Those are the six
best odds. So what better are you taking there? Or
are you surprised not to see someone else high on
the list.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Obviously I'm gonna roll with the champion Celtics. I think
they'll be dominating Nature as well.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
But my next bet will probably be okayc and really,
and the reason I say that is they got so.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Much draft capital, they got so much money to play with,
Like they're one star away from dominating the league theirselves,
so I think. And then on top of that, the
you know, trusting in Sam Pressey to make the decisions
for this organization that's obviously worked for them over and
(28:42):
over again. But I think he'll make the perfect decision
and improve that team this summer. So I'm excited to
see what they do as well.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Funny you mentioned one player away Buggie Cousins, because they
have new rules at the NBA in terms of free agency,
new rules all around this year. This is what happens
to a new CBA. But the free agency question has
changed because it used to be that even with your
own free agents, you had to wait a couple weeks
to talk to them, which was always ridiculous because we
knew everybody was talking any but anyway, I mean, it
(29:12):
just was. I think these tampering rules are insane. They
wiped away at least talked to your own guys, because
the idea that you weren't already talking to your own
guys is nuts. So as of today, as we sit
here on Tuesday morning, teams can talk to their own
players and make them offers. And some of the big
guys we're going to be watching our Paul George of
course with the Clippers, Klay Thompson with the Warriors, DeMar
De Rosen up in Chicago, and og and Nanobi og
(29:36):
Nanobi feels like a lock of where he's going. His
agent is president of the next Leon Rose's son. So
in case you had any question about how thanks to
giving dinner was going to go there, it was not
with oh, you took one of my players away and
got him on another team. It is yes, dad, and
here you go. And Oji wants to be there, obviously,
(29:58):
But when you look at some of those other names,
Paul George is obviously the huge, huge mover on that list.
You know, we saw Joel Embiid already campaigning to get
him in Philadelphia. There's talk that Orlando wants to make
a big offer to both Paul George and Klay Thompson.
What do you think? I mean, I think Paul George
has a really interesting decision to make. The Clippers were
not offering him the full max through these contract extension
(30:21):
negotiations they've had through the season, and they didn't Pickkwhi
the full max either. And part of the reason I
think Paul, unlike Kawhi, held on to this opportunity to
be a free agent, is that even if he wants
to stay with the Clippers, he wants more money. And
I think it's a real question of do you stay
in the West. Do you stay with this team where
your partner in crime has had health issues throughout the
(30:43):
entire time that you guys have been playing together. You
know how competitive you just talked about Oklahoma City. We
can name you know, Wemby and the Spurs. We can
name all these teams on the come up, plus Denver
plus the Mavericks plus Minnesota. Do you go to the
East and be on a team like Philmladelphia with Joel
Embiid and Tyrese Maxi And of course you've got you know,
(31:05):
Damian Lillard and Giannis over there too, so it's not
all a cakewalk. But what would you do if you're
in that position?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, when it comes to Paul, for me, it just
it gotta make sense.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And we've watched this guy spend most of his early
career just talk about how bad.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
He wanted to play in LA. He's finally gotten to
that point.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I just don't see that changing late in your
career now, as far as you know him, having a
start partner in Kawhi who's always injured, why the hell
would you go to Philadelphia? And that's the same situation,
except it's a younger guy. So that being the thought process.
(31:48):
I just don't see that winning him over as well either.
But I feel like this is a situation where the
Clippers will come to their senses. They will give him
what he's looking for this contract. Obviously, when it comes
to negotiating, you have to sometimes have leverage. You have
to show that it's other people interested and they're willing
(32:09):
to get that money. The Clippers will come to their senses,
and I believe Paul will be back with the Clippers.
They'd only make sense them moving into a new arena.
You don't want to let one of your star guys go.
It just doesn't make sense. So I think that they
will come to their senses and you know, we'll see
Paul and the Clipper sures.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I mean, look why I give up that leverage that
he had, and now he's going to go on the
open market. Everybody knows how valuable he is. And you know,
even if he stays right in LA, he's going to
get significantly more money, I think, than he would have
gotten if he had signed the extension over the season.
So smart move by him. Klay Thompson is the bigger
question though, book and I do want to hit him
before we go here. You played with the Warriors. You
(32:49):
saw that Warriors nucleus, the way Clay, Steph Draymond operate.
I mean, they're kind of one brain on that team.
And Clay has said he is going to go out
and listen to other offers, and the Warriors have said
we'd like to have him back, but it's clear they're
not gonna like, they're not gonna max him out. I mean,
he's definitely on the decline of what he was in
his prime, which there's no shame in that, and that's
(33:12):
what happens as you get older. And I wonder if
Clay himself is going to solve this problem for the
Warriors of do they focus on keeping the nucleus at
all costs and maybe not win another title, or do
they make some major changes to put them back on
Steph Curry back in contention. I don't know, it's gonna
just take the money in Orlando, or do you think
that he'd take lesson stay with Golden State.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think Clay is thinking take the money, and obviously
there's I don't really see light at the end of
the tunnel for the Warriors in the position that they're
in right now. I think we're now starting to see
the beginning of, you know, a dynasty end. And that's
okay everyone. It happens to every dynasty that's ever happened.
(33:59):
But I don't understand why so much. You know, certainty
when it comes to Clay going to a team like Orlando,
I can see Clay fitting in with an okay See
and actually putting them over the rump.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
So for me, there's just the one where there's a
lot of noise around. But you're right, there's a lot
of teams that might.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Want to I can see okay See sliding in and
also offering the same amount of money, and he fit in.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
He fits in seamlessly with that team.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I think he's the type of player they're actually looking
for instead of Josh Giddy being in that spot. You
gotta lay Thompson so that improves their team.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Draft makes by far, but uh, but I think it's
a real threat for Clay to leave.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
It's just the beginning of the end. And that's okay.
They had an incredible run. They pushed the league to
new heights. What they've done is historical. It's obviously league history,
but I think it's the beginning of the end for
that franchise.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, I mean four titles, so you can ever argue
with that. It is interesting though, because Steph is talked
about how hungry is still to win. If Clay does leave,
that opens up more flexibility for them, and then they
become another interesting team in the West. Because I'm I
believe in Steph Curry basketball teams. You're gonna have to
(35:18):
once he's dragged off the floor, fine, but when as
long as he's playing, I'm in for them having a
shot at it. And if they can upgrade that roster.
If Clay does decide to leave and that leaves them
more flexibility, I'm curious to see it is. It's crazy
to think that we just ended the season last night, Boog,
and it's going to be a wild summer, and it's
going to be another wild year next year. This game
(35:39):
is just it gives us so much. It's so much fun.
We've got Summer League coming up, We've got the Olympics
coming up. Basically, the entire NBA is going to come
to your house, Boogie Cousins. You live in Las Vegas,
and the whole league is doing a company move there.
Over the next month. You will see temsa practice there
in July. You will see Summer League there in July,
and maybe Boogie'll barbecue for all of us. We'll see,
(36:01):
we'll find out.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
We'll see if it's enough barbecue for all that.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
Right, We at Bully Ball are going to be taking
a break because the season's over, but we will be
catching you on other parts of the All the Smoke
Productions platforms.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
You'll see booking and I quite a bit, and you know,
go back and and listen to past episodes. You can
catch all of our episodes on the DraftKings Network, on
the All the Smoke Productions YouTube channel wherever people get
their podcasts and book I just want to say thank
you to you. This was a new venture for us
this year. You have, you know, set such an example
of stepping into your NBA retirement but also just being
(36:35):
able to play the game you love. I've said this
a bunch of times. When I say it again, I
so admire the fact that you want to compete and
you have that desire to poop and play ball, that
you just want to do it. And I think that's
an incredible example to set for people. And I think
it's fun for you and finals, MVP and champion of
your league over there in Taiwan. But I just I
(36:56):
want to thank you because it's been so much fun
basketball talk this year, and I'm saying for more.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I appreciate you, Rach, and I want to thank you
as well. Thank you for this opportunity, thank you for
inviting me to this lane, and we're gonna go places.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I'm excited, absolutely, absolutely all right, We will see you
guys as we go this summer signing off for the
season though.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Peace
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