The Mavs once again outmanuevered the Timberwolves in crunch time and are 1 win away from the NBA Finals. BULLY BALL is here to react to game 3 and discuss what's gone wrong with Minnesota, KAT's comments after the game, and if Luka and Kyrie are the best offensive backcourt ever. Plus, how much stock should we put into the Celtics easy path in the playoffs if any?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back to Bullyball, presented by DraftKings. I am Rachel
Nichols as always, mister DeMarcus Cousins, and back with us
again A mean alhassan, Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
To mean cheers.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Guys?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Cheers? When cheers and boogie? It's like midnight there, I
think in Taiwan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Close to it, close to.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So really we should be breaking out the herd alcohol.
Let's not get ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Man, you'd never ask hold On Lee.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
By the way, plenty of cheers about his beer. Lepards
are in the finals two and zero, maybe on their
way to a sweep, much like the conference finals games
over here, Boogie as usual, tearing it up twenty seven
and twelve in the last game. I don't know, man,
But what's it feeling. Are you feeling sweep? How's the
vibe around the city knowing you guys are so close?
(00:57):
What's it like over there?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Man?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Is it's really high level of basketball? It's super competitive.
We're playing a really competitive team right now in the
tape Mars team. So it's not as it's not as
easy as it's showing on paper. But you know, the
competition is really high. The guys don't give a damn
the name on the back of the jersey. They're they're competing,
(01:21):
and you know, that's what I came here for, to compete,
play real basketball and to play for something.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying the experience.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
The fans have been incredible, the city is incredible, so
it's all good. The team is in a good place.
We got a young team, a lot of We got
two rookies starting in our starting lineup, so yeah, so
we it's exciting times.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You know, they're learning on the fly.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
They're at the biggest stage right now, so it's it's
really dope to see.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And they're performing, so really dope to see. You know.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I'm happy to be a part of this group and
I'm proud of the group. So we gonna keep pushing.
Two more before were champs, So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Man, I love it. Went I went away. A championship
anywhere is hard to find, so us not say it's
gonna be easy from here on out, but very impressive
to oh run, and we're gonna have more of the
boogie chronicles toward the end of the show. So everyone
who's been following along the last couple of weeks get
to see more of that, which I'm excited about. We
gotta talk about the playoffs here though, of course, my friends,
(02:24):
these Western Conference Finals, these games have been so good,
so good, Kyrie and Luca combining for sixty six points
to take that three to oh lead. And look, these
games have been so close. The Mavericks, I think, are
the first team to get to three and oh despite
being behind in the final five minutes of each of
the three games ever in the NBA history, ever since
(02:46):
they started keeping track. That's bananas. But they've gotten some
help from the Timberwolves too, of course, who have had
an uneven performance. I got to start with this because
I know you both are gonna have something to say.
But look, it means already ready, it means read he
can tell the smiles on his face because after the
game last night, Karl Anthony Towns, who is shooting twenty
(03:07):
eight percent in this series, thirteen percent from three and
I just got before we go in, I just want
to say he is a big reason why they even
got here. His performance in Game seven against Denver. They
would not have won that game without him. However, his
shot has abandoned him in this series, and he said
after the game, I don't know what's happening. I shoot
(03:28):
fifteen hundred shots a day. THEDNT desk had a lot
of fun with us. What is your reaction, Buggy to
hearing that? And then we'll break down the rest of
the game.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Man, you can always count on Dreymond and cost bullshit.
It's for sure bullshit. But at the same time, as
a competitor, as a guy in the position that he's
in right now, at like at one of the ultimate
stages of competing, I do believe he's putting in the
extra work. This is a guy that's throughout history he's
(04:02):
been able to shoot the ball at a at a
really hot clip. But at the same time, it kind
of sucks when you put out a statement saying I'm
the greatest shooting big man all the time, and then
when it's time to be that, you're shooting thirteen percent
from three, So, uh, you know, it kind of sucks.
But I do believe he's putting in the work. Fifteen
hundred shots a day, No, no chance in hell. It's
(04:25):
just I don't even believe the coaching staff will be
okay with that right at this point. At this point
and this stage of the playoffs, rest is more important
than putting up fifteen hundred shots.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So rest in health. So I trying to do thank
you how much?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
How much? If you're taking would you say it's ten
seconds someone's feeding the ball. You take the shot with
ten and said ten seconds? Like about right?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Well, it's a difference rate, it's a difference. It's one thing. Now,
it's very possible to go in there and take fifteen
hundred shots, but as a professional athlete, we practice makes,
not just takes. So maybe maybe he is in there
making shooting fifteen hundred shots, but doesn't mean he's making
(05:14):
fifteen hundred. So it's a big difference in because if
you're making fifteen hundred, let's say you shot fifty percent,
that's three thousand shots, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So even taking them, would you say about ten seconds
in between shots? Would you say that's right? I mean,
my my math is my math.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
No.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
I think the problem is no one boogie backed me up.
Nobody just takes catch and shoot shots and.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
You should Yeah, that's yeah, you're doing saying.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Something off the drible. You're doing something where you you
screen and you you you aide, so to.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Get them the benefit of the doubt. It's a ten
seconds each. I think that's about four hours. Someone's going
to check my math because I couldn't even do simple
like addition and subtraction on TV the other day. Apparently
every skill I've ever had has left me because I
used to be a maths student. But I did. I
was like, let's give him the benefit the dawn. Say
it's ten seconds in between shots, whatever. I think that's
(06:06):
more than four hours.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Can I I'll be not even just.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I think he's getting up about three to four hundred shots.
I think three to four hundred, possibly five hundred note
between the postseason, not in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think no, I think that that's very possible. That's
very possive.
Speaker 6 (06:22):
The staff not letting him on off date or not
off days, on the on the off days between games
shoot that much. No, I think this is I'm gonna
be the voice of positivity. I think what he was
trying to say is I shoot a lot. You're not
like something. Oh he's had called me one hundred times.
They didn't really call you one hundred times. They may
have called you seven times, but we're trying to exaggerate
and say I do it a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So that's what I think he was going for.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
But you know, Draymond, he he jumped on that, and
after that it's tough because.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You know he is a great shooter, and but we
know everybody.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
Everybody goes to I think the difference between Caarling, Anthony Towns,
and maybe other shooters is I think him from a
confidence standpoint, I can see his confidence being shaken. You
could tell this by the shot selection and some of
the some of the decision making out there. So I
think what's happening isn't just he's going to a slump.
It's going he's going through something and he's feeling it.
(07:18):
He's feeling the world watch him and feeling.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
All all here we go.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
He missed another one, and I think that has a
compounding kind of effect where it feels harder and harder,
and I don't like. I think he needs one good
game just to kind of break out of it, because
right now he's snowballing and he's spiraling.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
He got sat for the last eight or nine minutes
of Game two. I was in the building for that
one and we just kept being like, is he coming back.
Is he bringing him back? But but you've been on
Non's read since day one of this season and how
good he is and Na's reed was hitting every shot
he took, even from like the last row of the stands.
He was incredible in that game. So, yeah, you don't
put Cat back in. But that had to be a
(07:57):
little bit of a confidence blow.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Too, I would say, yes, you know, being a guy
that's been there, being a guy that's been there as
long as he's been, He's been through a couple of couple,
a couple of coaching changes, organization changes. He's seen the
ups and downs of this ship. So for them to
be at this moment as much positivity that that they've
(08:21):
had thus far in this in this run, that can
definitely be a confidence blow in the moment. So, but
it happens, and this is this And that's the part
that people don't realize when it comes to, you know,
being a professional athlete or being on the stage. It's
it's not just about the physical. It's a lot of
(08:43):
mental that goes into this. So if if you're short
a little bit on your confidence, it can have a
huge effect on your game. So confident and and and
people wonder why you know these superstars and these these
these stars in the game are considered air again or
ass so you have to have that type of persona
(09:05):
for these type of moments.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
This is why it's important to walk around with the
I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Give a fuck attitude for these type of moments, because
when these moments hit you, that I don't give a
fuck attitude, that Russell Westbrook type mentality, that's what gets
you over the hump because the moment you start caring,
it starts to eat. It starts to eat away, and
it's sometimes it's hard to come back from it, maybe
not until that next season. I mean, no knock to
(09:32):
Ben Simmons, but we're watching him still deal with that
to this day and it's been about two seasons, three seasons.
So it's a real, real thing and it's and it's
no disrespect to mental health, like all of that is
real and I had an ultimate, utmost respect for it,
but it's stemming from literally not having a confidence and performing.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
At the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
You're saying it's real, that's you're actually making the point
that it is real. And by the the way, poor
Ben Simmons having is like double Chai latte in Brooklyn
this morning, catch and strays. But that's fine with Chutney
whatever whatever they have in Brooklyn with the handmade coffee
cups and the whole thing. But no, you're totally You're
totally right, And I hadn't thought of it that way
(10:17):
about that. I don't give a fuck attitude. But yeah,
once you start letting it in, you let it in.
And Kat you know, he's acknowledged over he's sensitive to
that kind of stuff. So one hundred percent. Have you
ever wondered if Chet Holmgren might be a descendant of
Abraham Lincoln or if a UFC fighter could beat an
alien in a fight. Well maybe you haven't, and that's okay.
But Shay Serrano and Jason CONCEPSI own from six Trophies.
(10:40):
Well they certainly have. If you're like me and you
like to listen to as many good basketball podcasts as
you can after you're done listening to Bully Ball, you
gotta listen to six Trophies. Every week. Shay and Jason
serve up the biggest moments from around the NBA with
their patented mix of joy banter, pop culture side quests.
They also hand out six pop culture themed trophies for
(11:02):
six basketball related activities, stuff like the Denzel Washington and
Training Day trophy that's given out to a player or
team having the best week around the NBA, or the
Lauren Hill. You might win some, but you just lost
one trophy for the team or player that does can't
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(11:24):
the NBA. So follow Bullyball, but also follow six trophies
on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts,
or you can listen ad free by joining Wondery. Plus,
I want to get talking about the guys who won
the game, obviously, and I just want to repeat this
because I do think it's a crazy stat that since
they started keeping records of this, in the history of
(11:45):
the NBA, no team has ever gone up three hour
in a series after trailing in the final five minutes
of each game. I mean, that's kind of crazy to
wrap your head around, and yet these guys are doing it.
And I just want to go through their numbers through
the season. They were twenty three and nine in the clutch.
They already were doing this They've been doing this for
(12:06):
a while in terms of offensive efficiency, best clutch team
in the league for the season, Number two overall, Doncic
and Irving finishing last night's game thirty three points, combining
for twenty one on eight of ten shooting in the
fourth quarter. I mean, that's that's just bonkers, bunkers.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That's bad boys, that's bad boy.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
There's been back and forth on the broadcast from the
very beginning of the series. Stan ban Gunny was just
talking about this is the most talented offensive backcourt in
NBA history. And I was actually, you know, I used
to work at T ANDT, and I was hanging with
the guys in the green room before Game two and
Stan walks in and just Draymond pounces on him. This
is pre game, pre show everything just right before Stan
(12:54):
barely got a word out, Hey guys, how are you?
What are you talking about? Best up, most talented offensive
backcourt in history? Forget about Clay and staff, you know
all this stuff. They continued this on the air. Reggie
Miller was on the air at that point. He jumped in,
so I want to get your guys take on this,
because Stan has looked more and more correct as this
series has gone on, but we are prisoners of the
(13:14):
moment sometimes, and you know, Clay and staff dude four titles,
so it's a little bit well, it's a little bit
of the phrasing, right, So are they the best? You
know then kind of you know, Paul Pierce has continued
this and he's like, oh, they're the most they're the
best offensive due or ever. So I mean, we've got
like a lot of qualifiers. So is it the best
(13:36):
offensive backcourt? Is it the most talented offensive backcourt? Those
are two different things, actually, because best means that you've
actually gotten the job done, whereas talent is a totally
different question. So Stan Is actually said talented. So I
want to like talk about that because I think that
if you just say best, I just think you've got
to give to Stephan Clay outright because they have won
(13:58):
four times. But talking about talent, if we just do
it that way, talented offensive backcourt, who do you guys got?
Producer Nate came up with Steph Clay, Hard and Westbrook
and Isaiah and Joe Jumars. So I don't know if
you guys have any more nominees. What do you think
you started off Man.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
I mean when I when I start thinking about talent,
I mean Steve Franciscatino MOBILEI that that combo comes to mind, Bradley, Bill,
John Wall, that combo comes to mine. I mean we
can even take it back to Tim Hardaway, midd Richmond
like it's it's a lot of talented like duos when
(14:37):
it comes to just talent.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
But as far as being the best, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Gotta agree with Draymond, like I'm I'm a guy that's
about accomplishments, Like you can't be considered the best if
it's not accomplishments to come with it. It's a lot
of talented guys to come through the NBA. That's what
the NBA is. It's it's a pool of talent. But
what separates you is what you accomplish amongst that pool
of talent, which is championships, accolades, things of that nature. So,
(15:06):
I mean, I think it's clear as today who's the best.
But as far as talent, we can have that conversation
all day and it's and it's almost and it almost
goes to preference as well. I mean, talent can be
as far as you know, the shooting ability of Klay Thompson,
the shot, the shot creating ability of a Kyrie Irvin
(15:27):
or you know, handled athleticism and Steve Francis and Russell
Westbrook or the savvy of a James Harden. It just
depends on what your preference is when it comes to talent.
So I think that's a conversation that's that's that's never ending. Honestly,
I don't think we'll ever get to a solid answer
(15:47):
on what's the most talented. It's too much talent.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Yeah, I think you know some mother names Earl the
Pearl and Walt Fraser, you got Penny and decent kid.
They know they got hurt, But like that's as talented
as you could get in the backcourt that they had
in Phoenix. You've got, uh, there's a lot of options
out there. And like Boogie said, like, what do we
talk about talent? Because I can say that Kyrie and
(16:15):
Luca are more diverse with their skill set than I
would say Stephen Clay, Like I don't. I don't think
you could throw the ball to Clay and have him
create for others in the way that Kyrie, Luke or
Steph can.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
That was Stan's big argument at least when they're having
the fight in front of me, which was pretty funny,
was like, look, Clay can't create for someone else the
way that these two guys can, and that limits him
so much that you then have to take that whole
pairing down a peg compared to these guys.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Now, the flip side of that, though, Rachel, is can
any of those guys guard like Clay could?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's talent? Is it offensive?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Offensive? Offensive?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
All right, again, we're qualifying, qualifying quiet everything in these arguments,
and sort of what do we what do we say
what's in the three words best? What best talented? Offensive duo?
Best offensive? Anyway? But yeah, no, look, I mean to
your point, right.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I mean, but when you say it like that, as
far as creating, yeah, maybe he's not the guy that's
creating off the dribber, but the attention that he gets
from his shooting ability creates opportunities.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, so that's still a form of creating.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yes, So I mean, like I said, it just depends
on your preference of talent.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Like he played with Stephen Clay, was it different actually
being on the court with them or in the locker
room with them or on the bench watching them than
it was as an opponent, Like when you were there
on the court with them and watching them do their thing,
did it feel different or as an opponent you get
it how good they are.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Man, Anything that left their hands was going in the basket.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Like I mean, I felt as a teammate.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It really did.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
And it was That was the easiest basketball I've ever
played in my life.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It was literally just like pick your poison. Like if you.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Set a good screen, the BIG's gonna overreact, You're gonna
have a wide open layup, or the backside is going
to overact, then you have a wide open It was
just it was it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Was musical chair. It was just like pick your poison.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
So, like I said, I get where they're coming from
as far as you know, play making ability with the ball,
you know, off the dribble, passing, things of that nature.
But if I set a crazy screen on the guy
that's guarden Clay, the BIG's gonna jump out, the guy's
going to fight his ass off to get over the screen,
and I have a wide open slip, which is creating
(18:35):
a shot for myself. So that's still that's still creating
opportunity for the next guy with his shooting ability. So
that's why I said I said it earlier. It is
when it comes to talent, it's more about what's your
preference of talent.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So well, look follow up on the Wolf side of things.
The flip side of that stat I just kept reading
is that they had the lead in all three games
in the final five minutes and coughed it up. And
that mental weight too, I think has got to be
weighing on all of them, not just Cat And look,
they were I think twenty second in crunch time over
the course of the season. This has never been their
(19:12):
biggest strength, but they've tried to make adjustments. You know,
we all saw at the end of the Denver series
when Aunt gets on TV and says I've got Kyrie,
which was just sort of like, I'm not sure that
Kyrie is the one you want to do that to,
young man, but you.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Know, but that's that's that's what you saw about earlier,
that confidence that like Coy yeah, yeah, you have to have.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
That if you're going to guard k have to have that.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
You have to have like a like a little bit
of insanity in you to say yeah, I think do
you say it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
On national television?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
It was great for TV, it was great for defense,
it was great for.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
The game I love and everyone loves. And he is
exactly what the NBA needs for his age, you know his.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And with that and with that and with that confidence.
I never said it was always going to lead to
the right thing. I say that helps you get over
those hurdles of hard times, having that confidence. I never
said it was going to always put you in the
right position. Sometimes that confidence can come back to bite
you in the ass, which we just witnessed. But that's okay.
(20:15):
As long as the confidence is there, you're going to
always be able to overcome the shit.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
He's gonna be fine. You're not supposed to get to
an NBA finals as the team leader at twenty two.
I mean, obviously it can happen, and it could have
maybe with him, but the fact that it looks like
it's not going to happen is not a failure in
any sense. And he has been exceptional. He is coming
to his own He's going to be exceptional on Team
USA this summer. We are still going to be in
the summer of Anthony Edwards. The confidence and the experience
(20:41):
he's going to get through all of this. He's going
to be sky high next season. I did think it
was interesting though, is that he did start out on Kyrie.
Of course, that faded a bit in the second game.
By game three, Colmley was really more on Kyrie and
ant Man. I want to say they were hiding him
defensively at all, but they were definitely giving him easier
Simons and he was still tired at that Game two
(21:02):
I was at he actually had to take oxygen in
the second half of the game. He was out for
a period and they had him in the hallway with
an oxygen mask on, and he's clearly getting tired. And
I don't know, Book what you thought of that. I mean,
he's young, he's twenty two, but I don't think he's
ever played this deep before. And I don't know, what
do you think about the fact that he clearly has
been tired and not quite himself for the series.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Man sounds like he's hitting the wall, which is kind
of understandable. He's the expectations of this team has gone
way higher than I think anybody really planned for so
and then as far as there, I feel like they
kind of when it comes to this Timberwools team, and
(21:48):
I think it is more so a bout default. I
feel like they felt like they accomplished the ultimate goal
early in these playoffs, which was taking out the defending
champ and I felt like they got to the point
where they started to kind of they no, it's not the.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Time to do that.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Even though you did the ultimate you know task with
you know, taking out the defending champs, it's still a
lot more left in this in this run. And I
think that's a sign of inexperience. I think that's a
sign of you know, youth and you know and it's
also part of the trials and tribulations of becoming a
(22:26):
championship team. When you go back to think about Denver,
before they became the champs, they went through these same steps.
Like it was one point they were getting their ass
kicked every year early in the play it went it
was to the point they couldn't get past the Lakers,
and now the Lakers can't win the game against So
I think, I think this is just the stages of
becoming at that championship team. You know, you have to
(22:50):
go through your trials and tribulations, you have to learn
the biggest teacher is experienced. No matter who you add
to this team, your core foundation has to go through
these experiences to learn how to get past it. And
you know, we're just watching this team, you know, go
through their you know, their struggles.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I think they will be fine.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
I think they I think Anthony Edwards is going to
have plenty of championships down down the line. I think
he's going to have an incredible career. But you know,
this is just part of it, so I don't take
it as a negative.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
But he has to go.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Nobody expected him to just go through this flawlessly. That's
not how sports work, you know. So and even if
they did make it to the finals, I think they
would have ran into a monster on this other side
with Boston, like just as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So you know, this is expected. I expected this for sure.
Speaker 6 (23:44):
So guys, the other thing we gotta remember is he
played seventy nine games this regular season. He's played eleven
playoff games. Is averaging forty one minutes a night in
the playoffs while guarding August yep right, So he's had
Regie said he's never had. This is by far the
most basketball he's ever played in his life. In the
spending the calendar year, so high level basketball, high level basketball,
(24:08):
and it's it's your first time playing this kind of
intensity of in terms of execution and all that beyond, Like, oh,
he's twenty two whatever, It's understandable. Like sometimes it bothers
me that people are like, oh, yeah, man, it's his
first time. What you think you think he's going to
be perfect that everything, He's gonna get tired, He's gonna
have to learn how to execute in certain situations. That
(24:31):
turnover he had at the end of game too, Like,
is that who Anthony Edwards is as a player? No,
but that happens when you're tired, and that happens when
when the stakes are at its highest.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah. I mean, look, you know, I still think they
could get a game, especially with Derek Lively now probably
going to be out. And that's that's sort of an
interesting wrinkle left game three with the next strain is
what they're calling it. They said, as of right now,
he's not in the concussion protocol. We'll have to see.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
No.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Mysteriously, he gets into.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
The boy can cuss man That me it was like
a bullet to the back of his head. I was like, damn,
it and showed a hardly faded By the way, this
is like three minutes after geting need in the other head.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
By the way, he is so just lovely as a person.
I want to say every time I spend time around him.
And I was in Minnesota at the beginning of the series,
and I've been with Dallas like several times this season,
and I got to tell you, he has his head
on his shoulders. Well maybe not today he has his
sad on his shoulders, because I think it's the next week,
but in general, he has social good had on his shoulders.
(25:40):
The story with his mom dying in the past year
and just sort of He was talking the other night
about he's like, I feel closest to her when I'm
on the court, he said, because I can hear all
those games, you know, since he was a kid, that
she would shout certain things after certain plays or when
he was at the free throw line. He's like, so
I can hear her in my head when I'm playing,
and he's like, that's why I'm like so eager to
(26:01):
play for her and to do things for her. And
it's just he's so smart and mature for being so
young and man tanking pays off yea, because the Mavericks
were able to get him when if they had gone
for that playing game, they wouldn't have. And I've just
been super impressed with him. Hopefully he will be conscious
by the time they start in the finals, if they
(26:22):
do indeed get there, but I doubt I can't imagine
him playing in the next game. So Minnesota could take
a game and go back to Minnesota. Well, we'll have
to see if they can do that. On the Celtics side,
we've already had kristeps Porzingis ruled out for Game four.
Remember there's chatter that he was going to be able
to come back in game four now that they're up
three to zero. I don't see that happening. And look,
(26:45):
we're not going to talk about a finals matchup quite
yet because we've got like what eight, ten twelve days
before the finals, so we have plenty of time for that.
But I did just want to talk about we will
likely see at this point Dallas and the Celtics with
Lively maybe missing a game but then having a week off,
and hopefully he'll be okay by the time we start
the finals. For Zingis, if he now doesn't come back
(27:07):
in the finals. I thought maybe they would try to
work him into a game four or five if they
had one, just so he could get his legs under him.
But you played the finals cold, and it was a
much different situation because you actually tore what was it
your calf muscle for your quad even worse, much worse.
And then you didn't play the entire postseason until you
(27:29):
were dropped into the finals, which was incredible. I mean,
I I know you didn't play how you wanted to play,
and I know you didn't feel like you should have
been out there, But I was sitting coursesidet those games.
I couldn't believe you were even out there doing what
you're doing. Obviously the physical capability aside, because you just
were not yourself. Just the idea of walking into a
(27:51):
finals cold when you haven't played, in your case, none
of the playoffs. Kris Steps did play a few games
in the in the first round series, but hasn't played
since then, for either him or Derek. Before we get
to the Celtics in general, what do you think is
going to be like for them if they don't play
and then all of a sudden boom, Hey, welcome to
the finals, Welcome back to basketball.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I think, honestly, I think they'll be fine.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
And the reason I say that is one, it's a
big difference in the amount of time missed and the
return time. But when it comes to Presiingians, he's played
most of the season, he's he's had a rhythm most
of the year, he understands the system. This is more
so just about finding his win and being comfortable on
(28:36):
his feet, which isn't that hard. That may take a
game or two, and I don't expect high minutes with
with his return. So that being said, I think they'll
be fine. I think, you know, the team is going
about handling this injury the correct way, making sure he's
one hundred percent healthy. That's that's the most important thing.
(28:58):
So I think it'll be I think he'll work his
way back in and fit in seamlessly. And the same
thing goes with a lot. But the biggest difference is
the reason that it was such a struggle for me
is I was coming off the Achilles' injury and I
missed most of the regular season. Anyway, I ended up
getting about thirty games with the team, and I was
(29:20):
finally getting my rhythm.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Back like I was, you know, feeling like myself again.
I was.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I had the confidence in my body, with my movements,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
True. So you know, I ended up boring on my quad.
I believe.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
First it was Game two, first round. I blew my quad,
and you know it was about it was. And it
was a muscle tear with these guys. You know, it's
a you know, a neck strain, which is you know
a little more manageable, in a CAF strain, which is
a little more manageable. A complete tear is a little different.
(29:57):
So you know, it was kind of a a rushed process.
I did the work that was necessary, but I just
wasn't there physically, and on top of that, the confidence
in my movements weren't there. But I was stubborn. I
was thinking with my athletic spirit. Sometimes as athletes, we
(30:18):
we feel we're fucking invincible sometimes like it's nothing that
can hold me back.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Like that's just not the case sometimes, and that was
what it was for me.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
So, you know, once I finally got out there and
I got amongst the speed of the game, and just
I could I could feel I was two three steps
behind everybody else. So I feel like that's the biggest difference.
And but for these guys, I think they'll be fun.
They played most of the year, Their confidence is there.
(30:48):
It's just about finding them when and making sure their
feet underneath them or not. And like I said, I
feel they'll fit seamlessly.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Yeah, you know, what Boogie went through is so unique because,
like you said, not just the level of injury is
coming back from then getting injured again, but also it's
his first year with a team that's a machine. So
part of that Boogie is youtually like Okay, where do
I fit in in all of this and trying to
(31:18):
you know, be productive within that, trying to be yourself
but also trying to be part of something bigger. For
Lively and porzingis they know what their role is, they
know where they fit.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
In, and all of this.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
KP's first year too look lovely to me is just
you know, I don't know, it's almost like just that
extra time is good for him, and he's been fine,
He's been in it this whole playoffs. But you really
think KP is just not going to miss a step
coming back. I mean you think for a long time.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I think it's it's it's what boogies.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
It is conditioning because he can do as much cardio
and stuff on the practice court, there's nothing like game shape.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
So he's going to have some conditioning issues.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
And if he has any sort of doubts about his leg,
you know, because sometimes guys come back from an injury
start favoring that leg or favoring that that you know,
part of the body, and then the other side gets
too much stress. Those are the things I would worry
about for Porzingis. But in terms of the flow of
the game, he knows, Yes, this is his first year
in Boston, but you knows he's not trying to figure
(32:15):
his way. He knows exactly how he fits in. It's
just hey, can we get him in shape. And also
the idea that look who they play in the finals. Obviously,
most years, your finals matchup is gonna be your toughest matchup.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
But for this Celtics team in particular.
Speaker 6 (32:33):
What they've been through in these first three rounds is
nowhere near what they're about to face in the finals.
Regardless of whether it's Dallas or Minnesota, make some Miracans
come back, you're going to play a vastly better team
than what you've been facing in the first three rounds.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, well look, I mean they certainly haven't needed Chriss
Porzingis in these games. I do want to talk about
this series a little bit. I mean, we said all
year the Celtics haven't really been tested. Celtics cans feel
like we can't win for losing. If we win by twenty,
it's not good enough. If we struggle, it's not good enough.
(33:08):
I feel like this series, even without Tyrese Haliburton in
one of these games, and he will not play a
Game four either, I feel like we have seen the
Celtics be tested and answer the call. Do you feel
like that? I mean, I mean, do you feel like
we have finally seen what they could know? Not at all.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
No, here's the deal. Here's the deal. The reality is.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Someone's saying that they've showed that they're champions. Yet I
just feel like I've seen a little bit more from them.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Okay, you tell me.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Well, here's here's And obviously it takes two to tango.
It can't just be one thing and not the other thing.
So obviously the Celtics being able to make those plays,
make those shots is big.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
But I'm watching in Indiana team that is.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Giving it away and giving in a way in true youth,
like they just don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
There's things there where it's like why would you do that?
Speaker 6 (33:58):
And not even like hey you missed that shot, or hey,
uh you know you got you you turned it over,
just like why would you do that? You know them
hard In game two, you have a time out. No
one's call a time out.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Like allows fault. I'm sorry, that's not good.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
It is on but but knows he's players know when
before we go out there, you tell them, hey, if
you ain't got it.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Got one time out so fast, you know, or siakam
on that on that Jaylen Brown three.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
First of all, not getting the switch. Y'all know we
switch everything on the end of game too, but they
didn't switch there. And then your contest rather than at
least get a hand up, you got your hand literally
shoved up, your.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Heads behind your back.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
Yeah, these are the things that look Jayleen Brown still
has to make that shot.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The Celtics still have to pressure them.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Begin which, by the way, he was twenty two per
on corner threes before that shot went up, So I
would actually say, see made the right, call on not
not fouling him. But yes, no, I mean it's not
that game was the most sort of egregious of giving
it away, giving away, giving it away I've made I
was gonna say, they've made mistakes throughout. It's not even
(35:13):
just that game, that Game two or whatever it was
it was. They have made a bunch of youth errors.
And I think we heard one of the guys say that.
I think Tyree said that after Game two. He's like,
we've showed our age here a little bit.
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Yeah, right, you know game three. You think about that
holiday steal. That is that is almost that's that is
a veteran preying upon the inexperience. Not only inexperience, but
also it's about Andrew Nemhart. Forget about him being young.
He's also never been in this situation like you're the
guy now.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Yeah, so he's going.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
But that's what I was going to say, is that
don't you think that this is a little bit about
the Celtics though, too is somebody's putting the foot on
their neck and that like Drew Holliday for example. Look,
I think you could name three guys the MVP of
this Eastern Conference Finals Tatum had a great series, Browns
had a great series. True, Holliday Man has been awesome.
He has had so many great moments in this series.
(36:06):
You think that this is all just because of subpar competition,
or you think, I don't know, but do you agree
that that this is just it doesn't even care.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I just for me.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
It is becoming kind of laughable how the narrative is
now shifting for this Boston Celtics team.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
We've watched them dominate all year long.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Since the beginning of the season, we've said, there's not
a team in the East that can fuck with this
Boston team. Now that we get to the Eastern Conference playoffs,
it's like, well, they haven't been tested. We've been saying
it all year. It's nobody that can match up with them.
So we've been calling it all year. Boston is coming
out of the East. It didn't matter how it was
(36:49):
going to happen. We knew this team was coming out
as far and as far as earlier in the year.
It was really only two teams mentioned that could possibly
be a threat, all the Sixers team and a healthy
Milwaukee Bucks team.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Nobody else in the East stood a chance.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
So obviously Obviously the Sixers weren't healthy, so that's by default.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Obviously Milwaukee wasn't healthy, that's by default.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Indiana had a miraculous run, but nobody thought they were
coming out of the East. Bro Like, that's just that's facts,
and it's okay, y'all had a great season, but reality
kicked in. This Boston team is dominant. They are the
most well put together team as far as defenders, the
far as playmakers, as far as shooters, veterans, big man,
(37:41):
they have a complete roster, they're the most well and
they have a top notch coach to go along with that.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
So this team was built to be at this stage.
They built this team specifically to be in the finals,
and it's working. So I'm just confused as to now
why we expected them to have more of a challenge
throughout this run. Like it's been called since day one,
they were going to sweep through everything and come out
(38:10):
of the East. That's exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
So I'm just confused why we're expecting different results now,
Like it's been said all.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You think, so I'm saying I'm impressed with this series
is the first one where I feel like, hey, you're
showing me ingredients that an NBA champion needs. And that
does not mean that they weren't playing well the first
two rounds. There just wasn't really an opportunity to show
those ingredients.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
And I kept saying, they've been tested, they've been tested.
It just wasn't this season.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Their trials and tribulations and their struggles have come from
past seasons.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
They've been tested.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, they're just now at the point where they're ready
to be a championship team and they're showing it. Nobody
in it. They've been tested. Like that's why I'm saying
this narrative now it's laughable. Like we just talked about
how they can never get over the hump. Now they're
over in the hump, and it's like, oh, they haven't
been tested.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Like that's bullshit. Like they've been tested.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
They're here though they've arrived as a championship caliber Tye.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
They're here and now we're seeing the results up.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
I mean, I mean, can you say that you have
you feel full knowledge of how good the Celtics are. See,
I still feel like I need to see how they
are against say Dallas or Minnesota to know yet how
good they are. Because they just seem so good right now.
And I can't tell if that's because of level of
competition or because they actually are that good.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
But they've been so good, right, Like what you say
they mean.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
All season, I mean historic point differentials.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
For years, for years, they've been.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Six out of eight conference finals.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
I mean, that's a that's a hell of a run
when you think about that, right.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I get it. That's here.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
It's easy to shut up conference finals. But that's insane.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
No, I agree, That's what I keep saying. I've said
that for weeks. Six out of eight con ference finals
is insane. But here's what we have been shown over
the last eight years is that they weren't good enough
to win a title. Right, So that's what we have
been shown up until now, and we have not been
to me prior to this round. I still wasn't shown
anything that said, oh man, that is a title winning team,
(40:18):
because I wasn't shown it in the previous eight years
because they think you're seven years because they didn't get there,
they didn't win it. So I know for fact they
weren't good enough to win it because they didn't win it.
That's how I know. That's how I know they weren't
good enough. They didn't win it. So I know that.
And in the first two rounds, it's not that I
thought they fell short. There was just nothing to show me,
like I didn't see it because it just wasn't available
(40:39):
to be seen. In this round, I have seen more
things that a title winning team needs to have. I
still don't know if they can win it because they
haven't done it yet, but at least to me, in
this round, I have seen a few more things that
a title team needs to have. Do you feel and
mean that you have a full sense of who this
team is yet or you still need to see them
against tougher competition to know really who they are.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I think it's well.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
The NBA, man, I'm gonna say this, I could define
what tougher competition is. A team that's let's let's just
start there. Let's let's play against someone a team that
has its best player, right.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Bro, that's the playoffs. You can't that's hype.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
We can't have hypothetical arguments in the playoffs. Injuries are
part of the game. So that's like me saying, hey man,
the Raptors got lucky that year that they want because
everybody got they fucking won, Like, it's not their fault
that our team got hurt.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
They want I'm not saying that it's their fault or whatever.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
I'm saying that if if you're a boxer, right, and
the first three guys you fight are all we know
that that dude.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Is not well. Boxing is in the team sports. So
that's not a good.
Speaker 6 (41:49):
Example, but it is in this sense. It's it's okay,
I'm gonna listen first. I listen first, then interrupt quite
a bunch of opponents that we know, they just they
just what they call them tomato cans and just throw
them out there so you.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Can, yeah, ye your next fight.
Speaker 6 (42:04):
Like, so, so here's a great like Jake Paul, Right,
you fight a bunch of dudes that ain't really that.
Now you're gonna fight Mike Tyson. That's a different animal. Man,
that is a different animal.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You're fighting something like seventy Now. Still I still I
still have him over everybody. Jake Paul's fount in his.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Life, right, I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
In that same in that same thing, right. Yeah, injuries
are part of it.
Speaker 6 (42:27):
And if they play whoever in the finals, and that
that team has injuries and they win, I can't put
an asterisk or whatever.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
They won the title.
Speaker 6 (42:34):
But the reality is Rachel's asking me, have they been tested?
I'm saying, if you're being tested by Andrew Nemhard and
Isaiah Jackson, what are you gonna do when you play
them guys? Like, what are you gonna do when that
test comes up? Because that's not the same kind of test.
And that's the part where going back to six out
of eight years of the last eight years, Rachel, they
(42:54):
have are you saying where they don't answer that call
when it comes, when push comes to shove, and and
when they haven't. It's not like they've they've crumbled against
teams that weren't good. They they've got beat by, they
got beat by the Wards Warriors are just better right
at that moment.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
The heat last year was just better.
Speaker 6 (43:13):
But this is different when you're what you've can go
in through is not reality. It's not so reality is
gonna show up and you're gonna have to be able
to make those right plays, those right executions, right those
right defensive rotations. You can't be sloppy like they've been
against Indiana because when Indiana, you give Indiana opportunities, they
(43:33):
find a way to fuck it up anyway.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Dallas ain't gonna do that.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
You funk around like that against them, They're gonnare gonna
be down three to zero in a series.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You're gonna find out. I believe the man said, fuck
around and find out? What do you think you do?
Speaker 6 (43:47):
Not?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
I just I disagree because in a sense, I'm reading
between the lines here, and it's almost the language that
I'm hearing is that they've had an easy route throughout
the playoffs, and there is no easy route in the playoffs,
Like how about easier?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I you can go down history. Let's just go down history.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
And it's crazy because we've been kind of talking about
this before the show.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
And the.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Most recent team with the so called easiest path to
the finals was the twenty twenty three Nuggets first round
forty two and forty ten, Beerwolves, second round forty five
and thirty seven Sons, some.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Team that beat them the couple of years.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Before though Conference finals forty three and thirty nine Lakers.
The conversation was never, but the conversation was never, Oh,
they had an easy route, Like, it's the playoffs. It's
(44:57):
the most recent team before that. Let me finish the
most recent team before that, the twenty thirteen Heat let
them finish first round thirty eight and forty four bucks
below five hundred, second round forty five and thirty seven
Bulls Conference Finals forty nine to thirty two pacers. It's
(45:17):
nothing that's jumping out on the paper to where but
these same championship teams aren't getting this slack that everybody.
And on top of that, when it comes to the playoffs,
you do your work early throughout the regular season. You
want to get a number one seed for a reason,
so you do have an easier path to end the playoffs.
(45:39):
You want to play the worst team compared to the
best team when it comes to competing for a championship.
That's the whole point of being the number one seed.
So we're now upset that they did all their work
early in the regular season, became the number one seed
in the Eastern Conference, and they just so happened to
run through all these rudy pool as teams in.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
These how is it? There? Fucking this is how is that?
Speaker 6 (46:03):
Or not?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
To the Celtics.
Speaker 6 (46:04):
Now, I'm gonna tell you what the difference is. Let
me take Denver as an example. You name the teams
they played on the way to the finals. Absolutely, you
know what the difference is. Anthony Edwards played in the
first round, Devin Booker played in the second round, and
Lebron James played in the third round. And now, if
I'm looking at who they played against in the Celtics,
the best player has been missing. Jimmy Butler missed the
(46:26):
entirety of the Heat series Donovan Mitchell this year.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Bro, let's keep it. I'm not saying that wasn't changing shit.
I'm not saying that Jimmy had played, they would have won.
Speaker 6 (46:37):
I'm saying the reason why people are saying their path
has been easier isn't because.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Oh, they played bad teams.
Speaker 6 (46:43):
It's because they're playing teams that are missing their best player.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
That's a big difference from just playing teams that were.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Just better than I heard the same language the year
that Kawhi came down and rolled his ankle against the Warriors.
I heard the same language. And look what the Warriors
turned into. So what the fuck does that mean? Because
teams are injured, that doesn't mean anything. It's still the NBA.
The Warriors turned into a dynasty.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
And Andrew Nemhart and Tyres Halliburtnon had no difference there.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Like it's easier to be I'm not saying it's not
a difference. I'm not saying it's not a difference. But
they're a playoff team and they're there for a reason. Yeah,
that's no not to the Celtics. There's no knock to
the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Here's love. It's one AM in Taiwan. Buggy is in
the middle of the finals, in the middle of the finals,
and he came with receipts despite being one AM, despite
him being in the middle of a finals playoff series,
He's got the records of every team and who they
played through every run to the finals. That is impressive.
(47:46):
I am just saying, forget finals a VP. Maybe going
for that, but you were also podcast MVP this week.
I'm just saying, the man came with receipts and we
will We will see you next week. I mean, thank
you so much for jumping in. We always love when
you're here. We'll see you more as the rest of
the spring and summer progress. But all you all watch
and thank you. You can catch all episodes of bully Ball
(48:07):
on the DraftKings Network. We're excited about that. All the
Smoke Productions YouTube channel. You can listen to us wherever
you get your podcasts. Rate us, review us, give us
the five stars. It'll help us out and we will
catch you next week.
Welcome back to Bullyball, presented by DraftKings. I am Rachel
Nichols as always, mister DeMarcus Cousins, and back with us
again A mean alhassan, Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
To mean cheers.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Guys?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Cheers? When cheers and boogie? It's like midnight there, I
think in Taiwan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Close to it, close to.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So really we should be breaking out the herd alcohol.
Let's not get ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Man, you'd never ask hold On Lee.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
By the way, plenty of cheers about his beer. Lepards
are in the finals two and zero, maybe on their
way to a sweep, much like the conference finals games
over here, Boogie as usual, tearing it up twenty seven
and twelve in the last game. I don't know, man,
But what's it feeling. Are you feeling sweep? How's the
vibe around the city knowing you guys are so close?
(00:57):
What's it like over there?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Man?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Is it's really high level of basketball? It's super competitive.
We're playing a really competitive team right now in the
tape Mars team. So it's not as it's not as
easy as it's showing on paper. But you know, the
competition is really high. The guys don't give a damn
the name on the back of the jersey. They're they're competing,
(01:21):
and you know, that's what I came here for, to compete,
play real basketball and to play for something.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying the experience.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
The fans have been incredible, the city is incredible, so
it's all good. The team is in a good place.
We got a young team, a lot of We got
two rookies starting in our starting lineup, so yeah, so
we it's exciting times.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You know, they're learning on the fly.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
They're at the biggest stage right now, so it's it's
really dope to see.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And they're performing, so really dope to see. You know.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I'm happy to be a part of this group and
I'm proud of the group. So we gonna keep pushing.
Two more before were champs, So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Man, I love it. Went I went away. A championship
anywhere is hard to find, so us not say it's
gonna be easy from here on out, but very impressive
to oh run, and we're gonna have more of the
boogie chronicles toward the end of the show. So everyone
who's been following along the last couple of weeks get
to see more of that, which I'm excited about. We
gotta talk about the playoffs here though, of course, my friends,
(02:24):
these Western Conference Finals, these games have been so good,
so good, Kyrie and Luca combining for sixty six points
to take that three to oh lead. And look, these
games have been so close. The Mavericks, I think, are
the first team to get to three and oh despite
being behind in the final five minutes of each of
the three games ever in the NBA history, ever since
(02:46):
they started keeping track. That's bananas. But they've gotten some
help from the Timberwolves too, of course, who have had
an uneven performance. I got to start with this because
I know you both are gonna have something to say.
But look, it means already ready, it means read he
can tell the smiles on his face because after the
game last night, Karl Anthony Towns, who is shooting twenty
(03:07):
eight percent in this series, thirteen percent from three and
I just got before we go in, I just want
to say he is a big reason why they even
got here. His performance in Game seven against Denver. They
would not have won that game without him. However, his
shot has abandoned him in this series, and he said
after the game, I don't know what's happening. I shoot
(03:28):
fifteen hundred shots a day. THEDNT desk had a lot
of fun with us. What is your reaction, Buggy to
hearing that? And then we'll break down the rest of
the game.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Man, you can always count on Dreymond and cost bullshit.
It's for sure bullshit. But at the same time, as
a competitor, as a guy in the position that he's
in right now, at like at one of the ultimate
stages of competing, I do believe he's putting in the
extra work. This is a guy that's throughout history he's
(04:02):
been able to shoot the ball at a at a
really hot clip. But at the same time, it kind
of sucks when you put out a statement saying I'm
the greatest shooting big man all the time, and then
when it's time to be that, you're shooting thirteen percent
from three, So, uh, you know, it kind of sucks.
But I do believe he's putting in the work. Fifteen
hundred shots a day, No, no chance in hell. It's
(04:25):
just I don't even believe the coaching staff will be
okay with that right at this point. At this point
and this stage of the playoffs, rest is more important
than putting up fifteen hundred shots.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So rest in health. So I trying to do thank
you how much?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
How much? If you're taking would you say it's ten
seconds someone's feeding the ball. You take the shot with
ten and said ten seconds? Like about right?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Well, it's a difference rate, it's a difference. It's one thing. Now,
it's very possible to go in there and take fifteen
hundred shots, but as a professional athlete, we practice makes,
not just takes. So maybe maybe he is in there
making shooting fifteen hundred shots, but doesn't mean he's making
(05:14):
fifteen hundred. So it's a big difference in because if
you're making fifteen hundred, let's say you shot fifty percent,
that's three thousand shots, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So even taking them, would you say about ten seconds
in between shots? Would you say that's right? I mean,
my my math is my math.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
No.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
I think the problem is no one boogie backed me up.
Nobody just takes catch and shoot shots and.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
You should Yeah, that's yeah, you're doing saying.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Something off the drible. You're doing something where you you
screen and you you you aide, so to.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Get them the benefit of the doubt. It's a ten
seconds each. I think that's about four hours. Someone's going
to check my math because I couldn't even do simple
like addition and subtraction on TV the other day. Apparently
every skill I've ever had has left me because I
used to be a maths student. But I did. I
was like, let's give him the benefit the dawn. Say
it's ten seconds in between shots, whatever. I think that's
(06:06):
more than four hours.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Can I I'll be not even just.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I think he's getting up about three to four hundred shots.
I think three to four hundred, possibly five hundred note
between the postseason, not in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think no, I think that that's very possible. That's
very possive.
Speaker 6 (06:22):
The staff not letting him on off date or not
off days, on the on the off days between games
shoot that much. No, I think this is I'm gonna
be the voice of positivity. I think what he was
trying to say is I shoot a lot. You're not
like something. Oh he's had called me one hundred times.
They didn't really call you one hundred times. They may
have called you seven times, but we're trying to exaggerate
and say I do it a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So that's what I think he was going for.
Speaker 6 (06:45):
But you know, Draymond, he he jumped on that, and
after that it's tough because.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You know he is a great shooter, and but we
know everybody.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
Everybody goes to I think the difference between Caarling, Anthony Towns,
and maybe other shooters is I think him from a
confidence standpoint, I can see his confidence being shaken. You
could tell this by the shot selection and some of
the some of the decision making out there. So I
think what's happening isn't just he's going to a slump.
It's going he's going through something and he's feeling it.
(07:18):
He's feeling the world watch him and feeling.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
All all here we go.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
He missed another one, and I think that has a
compounding kind of effect where it feels harder and harder,
and I don't like. I think he needs one good
game just to kind of break out of it, because
right now he's snowballing and he's spiraling.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
He got sat for the last eight or nine minutes
of Game two. I was in the building for that
one and we just kept being like, is he coming back.
Is he bringing him back? But but you've been on
Non's read since day one of this season and how
good he is and Na's reed was hitting every shot
he took, even from like the last row of the stands.
He was incredible in that game. So, yeah, you don't
put Cat back in. But that had to be a
(07:57):
little bit of a confidence blow.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Too, I would say, yes, you know, being a guy
that's been there, being a guy that's been there as
long as he's been, He's been through a couple of couple,
a couple of coaching changes, organization changes. He's seen the
ups and downs of this ship. So for them to
be at this moment as much positivity that that they've
(08:21):
had thus far in this in this run, that can
definitely be a confidence blow in the moment. So, but
it happens, and this is this And that's the part
that people don't realize when it comes to, you know,
being a professional athlete or being on the stage. It's
it's not just about the physical. It's a lot of
(08:43):
mental that goes into this. So if if you're short
a little bit on your confidence, it can have a
huge effect on your game. So confident and and and
people wonder why you know these superstars and these these
these stars in the game are considered air again or
ass so you have to have that type of persona
(09:05):
for these type of moments.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
This is why it's important to walk around with the
I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Give a fuck attitude for these type of moments, because
when these moments hit you, that I don't give a
fuck attitude, that Russell Westbrook type mentality, that's what gets
you over the hump because the moment you start caring,
it starts to eat. It starts to eat away, and
it's sometimes it's hard to come back from it, maybe
not until that next season. I mean, no knock to
(09:32):
Ben Simmons, but we're watching him still deal with that
to this day and it's been about two seasons, three seasons.
So it's a real, real thing and it's and it's
no disrespect to mental health, like all of that is
real and I had an ultimate, utmost respect for it,
but it's stemming from literally not having a confidence and performing.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
At the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
You're saying it's real, that's you're actually making the point
that it is real. And by the the way, poor
Ben Simmons having is like double Chai latte in Brooklyn
this morning, catch and strays. But that's fine with Chutney
whatever whatever they have in Brooklyn with the handmade coffee
cups and the whole thing. But no, you're totally You're
totally right, And I hadn't thought of it that way
(10:17):
about that. I don't give a fuck attitude. But yeah,
once you start letting it in, you let it in.
And Kat you know, he's acknowledged over he's sensitive to
that kind of stuff. So one hundred percent. Have you
ever wondered if Chet Holmgren might be a descendant of
Abraham Lincoln or if a UFC fighter could beat an
alien in a fight. Well maybe you haven't, and that's okay.
But Shay Serrano and Jason CONCEPSI own from six Trophies.
(10:40):
Well they certainly have. If you're like me and you
like to listen to as many good basketball podcasts as
you can after you're done listening to Bully Ball, you
gotta listen to six Trophies. Every week. Shay and Jason
serve up the biggest moments from around the NBA with
their patented mix of joy banter, pop culture side quests.
They also hand out six pop culture themed trophies for
(11:02):
six basketball related activities, stuff like the Denzel Washington and
Training Day trophy that's given out to a player or
team having the best week around the NBA, or the
Lauren Hill. You might win some, but you just lost
one trophy for the team or player that does can't
get it together. Plus a bunch more trophies for all
the good, bad, or just plain head scratching moments around
(11:24):
the NBA. So follow Bullyball, but also follow six trophies
on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts,
or you can listen ad free by joining Wondery. Plus,
I want to get talking about the guys who won
the game, obviously, and I just want to repeat this
because I do think it's a crazy stat that since
they started keeping records of this, in the history of
(11:45):
the NBA, no team has ever gone up three hour
in a series after trailing in the final five minutes
of each game. I mean, that's kind of crazy to
wrap your head around, and yet these guys are doing it.
And I just want to go through their numbers through
the season. They were twenty three and nine in the clutch.
They already were doing this They've been doing this for
(12:06):
a while in terms of offensive efficiency, best clutch team
in the league for the season, Number two overall, Doncic
and Irving finishing last night's game thirty three points, combining
for twenty one on eight of ten shooting in the
fourth quarter. I mean, that's that's just bonkers, bunkers.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That's bad boys, that's bad boy.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
There's been back and forth on the broadcast from the
very beginning of the series. Stan ban Gunny was just
talking about this is the most talented offensive backcourt in
NBA history. And I was actually, you know, I used
to work at T ANDT, and I was hanging with
the guys in the green room before Game two and
Stan walks in and just Draymond pounces on him. This
is pre game, pre show everything just right before Stan
(12:54):
barely got a word out, Hey guys, how are you?
What are you talking about? Best up, most talented offensive
backcourt in history? Forget about Clay and staff, you know
all this stuff. They continued this on the air. Reggie
Miller was on the air at that point. He jumped in,
so I want to get your guys take on this,
because Stan has looked more and more correct as this
series has gone on, but we are prisoners of the
(13:14):
moment sometimes, and you know, Clay and staff dude four titles,
so it's a little bit well, it's a little bit
of the phrasing, right, So are they the best? You
know then kind of you know, Paul Pierce has continued
this and he's like, oh, they're the most they're the
best offensive due or ever. So I mean, we've got
like a lot of qualifiers. So is it the best
(13:36):
offensive backcourt? Is it the most talented offensive backcourt? Those
are two different things, actually, because best means that you've
actually gotten the job done, whereas talent is a totally
different question. So Stan Is actually said talented. So I
want to like talk about that because I think that
if you just say best, I just think you've got
to give to Stephan Clay outright because they have won
(13:58):
four times. But talking about talent, if we just do
it that way, talented offensive backcourt, who do you guys got?
Producer Nate came up with Steph Clay, Hard and Westbrook
and Isaiah and Joe Jumars. So I don't know if
you guys have any more nominees. What do you think
you started off Man.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
I mean when I when I start thinking about talent,
I mean Steve Franciscatino MOBILEI that that combo comes to mind, Bradley, Bill,
John Wall, that combo comes to mine. I mean we
can even take it back to Tim Hardaway, midd Richmond
like it's it's a lot of talented like duos when
(14:37):
it comes to just talent.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
But as far as being the best, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Gotta agree with Draymond, like I'm I'm a guy that's
about accomplishments, Like you can't be considered the best if
it's not accomplishments to come with it. It's a lot
of talented guys to come through the NBA. That's what
the NBA is. It's it's a pool of talent. But
what separates you is what you accomplish amongst that pool
of talent, which is championships, accolades, things of that nature. So,
(15:06):
I mean, I think it's clear as today who's the best.
But as far as talent, we can have that conversation
all day and it's and it's almost and it almost
goes to preference as well. I mean, talent can be
as far as you know, the shooting ability of Klay Thompson,
the shot, the shot creating ability of a Kyrie Irvin
(15:27):
or you know, handled athleticism and Steve Francis and Russell
Westbrook or the savvy of a James Harden. It just
depends on what your preference is when it comes to talent.
So I think that's a conversation that's that's that's never ending. Honestly,
I don't think we'll ever get to a solid answer
(15:47):
on what's the most talented. It's too much talent.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Yeah, I think you know some mother names Earl the
Pearl and Walt Fraser, you got Penny and decent kid.
They know they got hurt, But like that's as talented
as you could get in the backcourt that they had
in Phoenix. You've got, uh, there's a lot of options
out there. And like Boogie said, like, what do we
talk about talent? Because I can say that Kyrie and
(16:15):
Luca are more diverse with their skill set than I
would say Stephen Clay, Like I don't. I don't think
you could throw the ball to Clay and have him
create for others in the way that Kyrie, Luke or
Steph can.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
That was Stan's big argument at least when they're having
the fight in front of me, which was pretty funny,
was like, look, Clay can't create for someone else the
way that these two guys can, and that limits him
so much that you then have to take that whole
pairing down a peg compared to these guys.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Now, the flip side of that, though, Rachel, is can
any of those guys guard like Clay could?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's talent? Is it offensive?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Offensive? Offensive?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
All right, again, we're qualifying, qualifying quiet everything in these arguments,
and sort of what do we what do we say
what's in the three words best? What best talented? Offensive duo?
Best offensive? Anyway? But yeah, no, look, I mean to
your point, right.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I mean, but when you say it like that, as
far as creating, yeah, maybe he's not the guy that's
creating off the dribber, but the attention that he gets
from his shooting ability creates opportunities.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, so that's still a form of creating.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yes, So I mean, like I said, it just depends
on your preference of talent.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Like he played with Stephen Clay, was it different actually
being on the court with them or in the locker
room with them or on the bench watching them than
it was as an opponent, Like when you were there
on the court with them and watching them do their thing,
did it feel different or as an opponent you get
it how good they are.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Man, Anything that left their hands was going in the basket.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Like I mean, I felt as a teammate.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It really did.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
And it was That was the easiest basketball I've ever
played in my life.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It was literally just like pick your poison. Like if you.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Set a good screen, the BIG's gonna overreact, You're gonna
have a wide open layup, or the backside is going
to overact, then you have a wide open It was
just it was it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Was musical chair. It was just like pick your poison.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
So, like I said, I get where they're coming from
as far as you know, play making ability with the ball,
you know, off the dribble, passing, things of that nature.
But if I set a crazy screen on the guy
that's guarden Clay, the BIG's gonna jump out, the guy's
going to fight his ass off to get over the screen,
and I have a wide open slip, which is creating
(18:35):
a shot for myself. So that's still that's still creating
opportunity for the next guy with his shooting ability. So
that's why I said I said it earlier. It is
when it comes to talent, it's more about what's your
preference of talent.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So well, look follow up on the Wolf side of things.
The flip side of that stat I just kept reading
is that they had the lead in all three games
in the final five minutes and coughed it up. And
that mental weight too, I think has got to be
weighing on all of them, not just Cat And look,
they were I think twenty second in crunch time over
the course of the season. This has never been their
(19:12):
biggest strength, but they've tried to make adjustments. You know,
we all saw at the end of the Denver series
when Aunt gets on TV and says I've got Kyrie,
which was just sort of like, I'm not sure that
Kyrie is the one you want to do that to,
young man, but you.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Know, but that's that's that's what you saw about earlier,
that confidence that like Coy yeah, yeah, you have to have.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
That if you're going to guard k have to have that.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
You have to have like a like a little bit
of insanity in you to say yeah, I think do
you say it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
On national television?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
It was great for TV, it was great for defense,
it was great for.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
The game I love and everyone loves. And he is
exactly what the NBA needs for his age, you know his.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And with that and with that and with that confidence.
I never said it was always going to lead to
the right thing. I say that helps you get over
those hurdles of hard times, having that confidence. I never
said it was going to always put you in the
right position. Sometimes that confidence can come back to bite
you in the ass, which we just witnessed. But that's okay.
(20:15):
As long as the confidence is there, you're going to
always be able to overcome the shit.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
He's gonna be fine. You're not supposed to get to
an NBA finals as the team leader at twenty two.
I mean, obviously it can happen, and it could have
maybe with him, but the fact that it looks like
it's not going to happen is not a failure in
any sense. And he has been exceptional. He is coming
to his own He's going to be exceptional on Team
USA this summer. We are still going to be in
the summer of Anthony Edwards. The confidence and the experience
(20:41):
he's going to get through all of this. He's going
to be sky high next season. I did think it
was interesting though, is that he did start out on Kyrie.
Of course, that faded a bit in the second game.
By game three, Colmley was really more on Kyrie and
ant Man. I want to say they were hiding him
defensively at all, but they were definitely giving him easier
Simons and he was still tired at that Game two
(21:02):
I was at he actually had to take oxygen in
the second half of the game. He was out for
a period and they had him in the hallway with
an oxygen mask on, and he's clearly getting tired. And
I don't know, Book what you thought of that. I mean,
he's young, he's twenty two, but I don't think he's
ever played this deep before. And I don't know, what
do you think about the fact that he clearly has
been tired and not quite himself for the series.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Man sounds like he's hitting the wall, which is kind
of understandable. He's the expectations of this team has gone
way higher than I think anybody really planned for so
and then as far as there, I feel like they
kind of when it comes to this Timberwools team, and
(21:48):
I think it is more so a bout default. I
feel like they felt like they accomplished the ultimate goal
early in these playoffs, which was taking out the defending
champ and I felt like they got to the point
where they started to kind of they no, it's not the.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Time to do that.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Even though you did the ultimate you know task with
you know, taking out the defending champs, it's still a
lot more left in this in this run. And I
think that's a sign of inexperience. I think that's a
sign of you know, youth and you know and it's
also part of the trials and tribulations of becoming a
(22:26):
championship team. When you go back to think about Denver,
before they became the champs, they went through these same steps.
Like it was one point they were getting their ass
kicked every year early in the play it went it
was to the point they couldn't get past the Lakers,
and now the Lakers can't win the game against So
I think, I think this is just the stages of
becoming at that championship team. You know, you have to
(22:50):
go through your trials and tribulations, you have to learn
the biggest teacher is experienced. No matter who you add
to this team, your core foundation has to go through
these experiences to learn how to get past it. And
you know, we're just watching this team, you know, go
through their you know, their struggles.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I think they will be fine.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
I think they I think Anthony Edwards is going to
have plenty of championships down down the line. I think
he's going to have an incredible career. But you know,
this is just part of it, so I don't take
it as a negative.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
But he has to go.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Nobody expected him to just go through this flawlessly. That's
not how sports work, you know. So and even if
they did make it to the finals, I think they
would have ran into a monster on this other side
with Boston, like just as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So you know, this is expected. I expected this for sure.
Speaker 6 (23:44):
So guys, the other thing we gotta remember is he
played seventy nine games this regular season. He's played eleven
playoff games. Is averaging forty one minutes a night in
the playoffs while guarding August yep right, So he's had
Regie said he's never had. This is by far the
most basketball he's ever played in his life. In the
spending the calendar year, so high level basketball, high level basketball,
(24:08):
and it's it's your first time playing this kind of
intensity of in terms of execution and all that beyond, Like, oh,
he's twenty two whatever, It's understandable. Like sometimes it bothers
me that people are like, oh, yeah, man, it's his
first time. What you think you think he's going to
be perfect that everything, He's gonna get tired, He's gonna
have to learn how to execute in certain situations. That
(24:31):
turnover he had at the end of game too, Like,
is that who Anthony Edwards is as a player? No,
but that happens when you're tired, and that happens when
when the stakes are at its highest.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah. I mean, look, you know, I still think they
could get a game, especially with Derek Lively now probably
going to be out. And that's that's sort of an
interesting wrinkle left game three with the next strain is
what they're calling it. They said, as of right now,
he's not in the concussion protocol. We'll have to see.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
No.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Mysteriously, he gets into.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
The boy can cuss man That me it was like
a bullet to the back of his head. I was like, damn,
it and showed a hardly faded By the way, this
is like three minutes after geting need in the other head.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
By the way, he is so just lovely as a person.
I want to say every time I spend time around him.
And I was in Minnesota at the beginning of the series,
and I've been with Dallas like several times this season,
and I got to tell you, he has his head
on his shoulders. Well maybe not today he has his
sad on his shoulders, because I think it's the next week,
but in general, he has social good had on his shoulders.
(25:40):
The story with his mom dying in the past year
and just sort of He was talking the other night
about he's like, I feel closest to her when I'm
on the court, he said, because I can hear all
those games, you know, since he was a kid, that
she would shout certain things after certain plays or when
he was at the free throw line. He's like, so
I can hear her in my head when I'm playing,
and he's like, that's why I'm like so eager to
(26:01):
play for her and to do things for her. And
it's just he's so smart and mature for being so
young and man tanking pays off yea, because the Mavericks
were able to get him when if they had gone
for that playing game, they wouldn't have. And I've just
been super impressed with him. Hopefully he will be conscious
by the time they start in the finals, if they
(26:22):
do indeed get there, but I doubt I can't imagine
him playing in the next game. So Minnesota could take
a game and go back to Minnesota. Well, we'll have
to see if they can do that. On the Celtics side,
we've already had kristeps Porzingis ruled out for Game four.
Remember there's chatter that he was going to be able
to come back in game four now that they're up
three to zero. I don't see that happening. And look,
(26:45):
we're not going to talk about a finals matchup quite
yet because we've got like what eight, ten twelve days
before the finals, so we have plenty of time for that.
But I did just want to talk about we will
likely see at this point Dallas and the Celtics with
Lively maybe missing a game but then having a week off,
and hopefully he'll be okay by the time we start
the finals. For Zingis, if he now doesn't come back
(27:07):
in the finals. I thought maybe they would try to
work him into a game four or five if they
had one, just so he could get his legs under him.
But you played the finals cold, and it was a
much different situation because you actually tore what was it
your calf muscle for your quad even worse, much worse.
And then you didn't play the entire postseason until you
(27:29):
were dropped into the finals, which was incredible. I mean,
I I know you didn't play how you wanted to play,
and I know you didn't feel like you should have
been out there, But I was sitting coursesidet those games.
I couldn't believe you were even out there doing what
you're doing. Obviously the physical capability aside, because you just
were not yourself. Just the idea of walking into a
(27:51):
finals cold when you haven't played, in your case, none
of the playoffs. Kris Steps did play a few games
in the in the first round series, but hasn't played
since then, for either him or Derek. Before we get
to the Celtics in general, what do you think is
going to be like for them if they don't play
and then all of a sudden boom, Hey, welcome to
the finals, Welcome back to basketball.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I think, honestly, I think they'll be fine.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
And the reason I say that is one, it's a
big difference in the amount of time missed and the
return time. But when it comes to Presiingians, he's played
most of the season, he's he's had a rhythm most
of the year, he understands the system. This is more
so just about finding his win and being comfortable on
(28:36):
his feet, which isn't that hard. That may take a
game or two, and I don't expect high minutes with
with his return. So that being said, I think they'll
be fine. I think, you know, the team is going
about handling this injury the correct way, making sure he's
one hundred percent healthy. That's that's the most important thing.
(28:58):
So I think it'll be I think he'll work his
way back in and fit in seamlessly. And the same
thing goes with a lot. But the biggest difference is
the reason that it was such a struggle for me
is I was coming off the Achilles' injury and I
missed most of the regular season. Anyway, I ended up
getting about thirty games with the team, and I was
(29:20):
finally getting my rhythm.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Back like I was, you know, feeling like myself again.
I was.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I had the confidence in my body, with my movements,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
True. So you know, I ended up boring on my quad.
I believe.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
First it was Game two, first round. I blew my quad,
and you know it was about it was. And it
was a muscle tear with these guys. You know, it's
a you know, a neck strain, which is you know
a little more manageable, in a CAF strain, which is
a little more manageable. A complete tear is a little different.
(29:57):
So you know, it was kind of a a rushed process.
I did the work that was necessary, but I just
wasn't there physically, and on top of that, the confidence
in my movements weren't there. But I was stubborn. I
was thinking with my athletic spirit. Sometimes as athletes, we
(30:18):
we feel we're fucking invincible sometimes like it's nothing that
can hold me back.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Like that's just not the case sometimes, and that was
what it was for me.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
So, you know, once I finally got out there and
I got amongst the speed of the game, and just
I could I could feel I was two three steps
behind everybody else. So I feel like that's the biggest difference.
And but for these guys, I think they'll be fun.
They played most of the year, Their confidence is there.
(30:48):
It's just about finding them when and making sure their
feet underneath them or not. And like I said, I
feel they'll fit seamlessly.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Yeah, you know, what Boogie went through is so unique because,
like you said, not just the level of injury is
coming back from then getting injured again, but also it's
his first year with a team that's a machine. So
part of that Boogie is youtually like Okay, where do
I fit in in all of this and trying to
(31:18):
you know, be productive within that, trying to be yourself
but also trying to be part of something bigger. For
Lively and porzingis they know what their role is, they
know where they fit.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
In, and all of this.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
KP's first year too look lovely to me is just
you know, I don't know, it's almost like just that
extra time is good for him, and he's been fine,
He's been in it this whole playoffs. But you really
think KP is just not going to miss a step
coming back. I mean you think for a long time.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I think it's it's it's what boogies.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
It is conditioning because he can do as much cardio
and stuff on the practice court, there's nothing like game shape.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
So he's going to have some conditioning issues.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
And if he has any sort of doubts about his leg,
you know, because sometimes guys come back from an injury
start favoring that leg or favoring that that you know,
part of the body, and then the other side gets
too much stress. Those are the things I would worry
about for Porzingis. But in terms of the flow of
the game, he knows, Yes, this is his first year
in Boston, but you knows he's not trying to figure
(32:15):
his way. He knows exactly how he fits in. It's
just hey, can we get him in shape. And also
the idea that look who they play in the finals. Obviously,
most years, your finals matchup is gonna be your toughest matchup.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
But for this Celtics team in particular.
Speaker 6 (32:33):
What they've been through in these first three rounds is
nowhere near what they're about to face in the finals.
Regardless of whether it's Dallas or Minnesota, make some Miracans
come back, you're going to play a vastly better team
than what you've been facing in the first three rounds.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, well look, I mean they certainly haven't needed Chriss
Porzingis in these games. I do want to talk about
this series a little bit. I mean, we said all
year the Celtics haven't really been tested. Celtics cans feel
like we can't win for losing. If we win by twenty,
it's not good enough. If we struggle, it's not good enough.
(33:08):
I feel like this series, even without Tyrese Haliburton in
one of these games, and he will not play a
Game four either, I feel like we have seen the
Celtics be tested and answer the call. Do you feel
like that? I mean, I mean, do you feel like
we have finally seen what they could know? Not at all.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
No, here's the deal. Here's the deal. The reality is.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Someone's saying that they've showed that they're champions. Yet I
just feel like I've seen a little bit more from them.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Okay, you tell me.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Well, here's here's And obviously it takes two to tango.
It can't just be one thing and not the other thing.
So obviously the Celtics being able to make those plays,
make those shots is big.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
But I'm watching in Indiana team that is.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Giving it away and giving in a way in true youth,
like they just don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
There's things there where it's like why would you do that?
Speaker 6 (33:58):
And not even like hey you missed that shot, or hey,
uh you know you got you you turned it over,
just like why would you do that? You know them
hard In game two, you have a time out. No
one's call a time out.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Like allows fault. I'm sorry, that's not good.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
It is on but but knows he's players know when
before we go out there, you tell them, hey, if
you ain't got it.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Got one time out so fast, you know, or siakam
on that on that Jaylen Brown three.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
First of all, not getting the switch. Y'all know we
switch everything on the end of game too, but they
didn't switch there. And then your contest rather than at
least get a hand up, you got your hand literally
shoved up, your.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Heads behind your back.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
Yeah, these are the things that look Jayleen Brown still
has to make that shot.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The Celtics still have to pressure them.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Begin which, by the way, he was twenty two per
on corner threes before that shot went up, So I
would actually say, see made the right, call on not
not fouling him. But yes, no, I mean it's not
that game was the most sort of egregious of giving
it away, giving away, giving it away I've made I
was gonna say, they've made mistakes throughout. It's not even
(35:13):
just that game, that Game two or whatever it was
it was. They have made a bunch of youth errors.
And I think we heard one of the guys say that.
I think Tyree said that after Game two. He's like,
we've showed our age here a little bit.
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Yeah, right, you know game three. You think about that
holiday steal. That is that is almost that's that is
a veteran preying upon the inexperience. Not only inexperience, but
also it's about Andrew Nemhart. Forget about him being young.
He's also never been in this situation like you're the
guy now.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Yeah, so he's going.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
But that's what I was going to say, is that
don't you think that this is a little bit about
the Celtics though, too is somebody's putting the foot on
their neck and that like Drew Holliday for example. Look,
I think you could name three guys the MVP of
this Eastern Conference Finals Tatum had a great series, Browns
had a great series. True, Holliday Man has been awesome.
He has had so many great moments in this series.
(36:06):
You think that this is all just because of subpar competition,
or you think, I don't know, but do you agree
that that this is just it doesn't even care.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I just for me.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
It is becoming kind of laughable how the narrative is
now shifting for this Boston Celtics team.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
We've watched them dominate all year long.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Since the beginning of the season, we've said, there's not
a team in the East that can fuck with this
Boston team. Now that we get to the Eastern Conference playoffs,
it's like, well, they haven't been tested. We've been saying
it all year. It's nobody that can match up with them.
So we've been calling it all year. Boston is coming
out of the East. It didn't matter how it was
(36:49):
going to happen. We knew this team was coming out
as far and as far as earlier in the year.
It was really only two teams mentioned that could possibly
be a threat, all the Sixers team and a healthy
Milwaukee Bucks team.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Nobody else in the East stood a chance.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
So obviously Obviously the Sixers weren't healthy, so that's by default.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Obviously Milwaukee wasn't healthy, that's by default.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Indiana had a miraculous run, but nobody thought they were
coming out of the East. Bro Like, that's just that's facts,
and it's okay, y'all had a great season, but reality
kicked in. This Boston team is dominant. They are the
most well put together team as far as defenders, the
far as playmakers, as far as shooters, veterans, big man,
(37:41):
they have a complete roster, they're the most well and
they have a top notch coach to go along with that.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
So this team was built to be at this stage.
They built this team specifically to be in the finals,
and it's working. So I'm just confused as to now
why we expected them to have more of a challenge
throughout this run. Like it's been called since day one,
they were going to sweep through everything and come out
(38:10):
of the East. That's exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
So I'm just confused why we're expecting different results now,
Like it's been said all.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You think, so I'm saying I'm impressed with this series
is the first one where I feel like, hey, you're
showing me ingredients that an NBA champion needs. And that
does not mean that they weren't playing well the first
two rounds. There just wasn't really an opportunity to show
those ingredients.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
And I kept saying, they've been tested, they've been tested.
It just wasn't this season.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Their trials and tribulations and their struggles have come from
past seasons.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
They've been tested.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, they're just now at the point where they're ready
to be a championship team and they're showing it. Nobody
in it. They've been tested. Like that's why I'm saying
this narrative now it's laughable. Like we just talked about
how they can never get over the hump. Now they're
over in the hump, and it's like, oh, they haven't
been tested.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Like that's bullshit. Like they've been tested.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
They're here though they've arrived as a championship caliber Tye.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
They're here and now we're seeing the results up.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
I mean, I mean, can you say that you have
you feel full knowledge of how good the Celtics are. See,
I still feel like I need to see how they
are against say Dallas or Minnesota to know yet how
good they are. Because they just seem so good right now.
And I can't tell if that's because of level of
competition or because they actually are that good.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
But they've been so good, right, Like what you say
they mean.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
All season, I mean historic point differentials.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
For years, for years, they've been.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Six out of eight conference finals.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
I mean, that's a that's a hell of a run
when you think about that, right.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I get it. That's here.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
It's easy to shut up conference finals. But that's insane.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
No, I agree, That's what I keep saying. I've said
that for weeks. Six out of eight con ference finals
is insane. But here's what we have been shown over
the last eight years is that they weren't good enough
to win a title. Right, So that's what we have
been shown up until now, and we have not been
to me prior to this round. I still wasn't shown
anything that said, oh man, that is a title winning team,
(40:18):
because I wasn't shown it in the previous eight years
because they think you're seven years because they didn't get there,
they didn't win it. So I know for fact they
weren't good enough to win it because they didn't win it.
That's how I know. That's how I know they weren't
good enough. They didn't win it. So I know that.
And in the first two rounds, it's not that I
thought they fell short. There was just nothing to show me,
like I didn't see it because it just wasn't available
(40:39):
to be seen. In this round, I have seen more
things that a title winning team needs to have. I
still don't know if they can win it because they
haven't done it yet, but at least to me, in
this round, I have seen a few more things that
a title team needs to have. Do you feel and
mean that you have a full sense of who this
team is yet or you still need to see them
against tougher competition to know really who they are.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I think it's well.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
The NBA, man, I'm gonna say this, I could define
what tougher competition is. A team that's let's let's just
start there. Let's let's play against someone a team that
has its best player, right.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Bro, that's the playoffs. You can't that's hype.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
We can't have hypothetical arguments in the playoffs. Injuries are
part of the game. So that's like me saying, hey man,
the Raptors got lucky that year that they want because
everybody got they fucking won, Like, it's not their fault
that our team got hurt.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
They want I'm not saying that it's their fault or whatever.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
I'm saying that if if you're a boxer, right, and
the first three guys you fight are all we know
that that dude.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Is not well. Boxing is in the team sports. So
that's not a good.
Speaker 6 (41:49):
Example, but it is in this sense. It's it's okay,
I'm gonna listen first. I listen first, then interrupt quite
a bunch of opponents that we know, they just they
just what they call them tomato cans and just throw
them out there so you.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Can, yeah, ye your next fight.
Speaker 6 (42:04):
Like, so, so here's a great like Jake Paul, Right,
you fight a bunch of dudes that ain't really that.
Now you're gonna fight Mike Tyson. That's a different animal. Man,
that is a different animal.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You're fighting something like seventy Now. Still I still I
still have him over everybody. Jake Paul's fount in his.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Life, right, I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
In that same in that same thing, right. Yeah, injuries
are part of it.
Speaker 6 (42:27):
And if they play whoever in the finals, and that
that team has injuries and they win, I can't put
an asterisk or whatever.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
They won the title.
Speaker 6 (42:34):
But the reality is Rachel's asking me, have they been tested?
I'm saying, if you're being tested by Andrew Nemhard and
Isaiah Jackson, what are you gonna do when you play
them guys? Like, what are you gonna do when that
test comes up? Because that's not the same kind of test.
And that's the part where going back to six out
of eight years of the last eight years, Rachel, they
(42:54):
have are you saying where they don't answer that call
when it comes, when push comes to shove, and and
when they haven't. It's not like they've they've crumbled against
teams that weren't good. They they've got beat by, they
got beat by the Wards Warriors are just better right
at that moment.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
The heat last year was just better.
Speaker 6 (43:13):
But this is different when you're what you've can go
in through is not reality. It's not so reality is
gonna show up and you're gonna have to be able
to make those right plays, those right executions, right those
right defensive rotations. You can't be sloppy like they've been
against Indiana because when Indiana, you give Indiana opportunities, they
(43:33):
find a way to fuck it up anyway.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Dallas ain't gonna do that.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
You funk around like that against them, They're gonnare gonna
be down three to zero in a series.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You're gonna find out. I believe the man said, fuck
around and find out? What do you think you do?
Speaker 6 (43:47):
Not?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
I just I disagree because in a sense, I'm reading
between the lines here, and it's almost the language that
I'm hearing is that they've had an easy route throughout
the playoffs, and there is no easy route in the playoffs,
Like how about easier?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I you can go down history. Let's just go down history.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
And it's crazy because we've been kind of talking about
this before the show.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
And the.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Most recent team with the so called easiest path to
the finals was the twenty twenty three Nuggets first round
forty two and forty ten, Beerwolves, second round forty five
and thirty seven Sons, some.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Team that beat them the couple of years.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Before though Conference finals forty three and thirty nine Lakers.
The conversation was never, but the conversation was never, Oh,
they had an easy route, Like, it's the playoffs. It's
(44:57):
the most recent team before that. Let me finish the
most recent team before that, the twenty thirteen Heat let
them finish first round thirty eight and forty four bucks
below five hundred, second round forty five and thirty seven
Bulls Conference Finals forty nine to thirty two pacers. It's
(45:17):
nothing that's jumping out on the paper to where but
these same championship teams aren't getting this slack that everybody.
And on top of that, when it comes to the playoffs,
you do your work early throughout the regular season. You
want to get a number one seed for a reason,
so you do have an easier path to end the playoffs.
(45:39):
You want to play the worst team compared to the
best team when it comes to competing for a championship.
That's the whole point of being the number one seed.
So we're now upset that they did all their work
early in the regular season, became the number one seed
in the Eastern Conference, and they just so happened to
run through all these rudy pool as teams in.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
These how is it? There? Fucking this is how is that?
Speaker 6 (46:03):
Or not?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
To the Celtics.
Speaker 6 (46:04):
Now, I'm gonna tell you what the difference is. Let
me take Denver as an example. You name the teams
they played on the way to the finals. Absolutely, you
know what the difference is. Anthony Edwards played in the
first round, Devin Booker played in the second round, and
Lebron James played in the third round. And now, if
I'm looking at who they played against in the Celtics,
the best player has been missing. Jimmy Butler missed the
(46:26):
entirety of the Heat series Donovan Mitchell this year.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Bro, let's keep it. I'm not saying that wasn't changing shit.
I'm not saying that Jimmy had played, they would have won.
Speaker 6 (46:37):
I'm saying the reason why people are saying their path
has been easier isn't because.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Oh, they played bad teams.
Speaker 6 (46:43):
It's because they're playing teams that are missing their best player.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
That's a big difference from just playing teams that were.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Just better than I heard the same language the year
that Kawhi came down and rolled his ankle against the Warriors.
I heard the same language. And look what the Warriors
turned into. So what the fuck does that mean? Because
teams are injured, that doesn't mean anything. It's still the NBA.
The Warriors turned into a dynasty.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
And Andrew Nemhart and Tyres Halliburtnon had no difference there.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Like it's easier to be I'm not saying it's not
a difference. I'm not saying it's not a difference. But
they're a playoff team and they're there for a reason. Yeah,
that's no not to the Celtics. There's no knock to
the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Here's love. It's one AM in Taiwan. Buggy is in
the middle of the finals, in the middle of the finals,
and he came with receipts despite being one AM, despite
him being in the middle of a finals playoff series,
He's got the records of every team and who they
played through every run to the finals. That is impressive.
(47:46):
I am just saying, forget finals a VP. Maybe going
for that, but you were also podcast MVP this week.
I'm just saying, the man came with receipts and we
will We will see you next week. I mean, thank
you so much for jumping in. We always love when
you're here. We'll see you more as the rest of
the spring and summer progress. But all you all watch
and thank you. You can catch all episodes of bully Ball
(48:07):
on the DraftKings Network. We're excited about that. All the
Smoke Productions YouTube channel. You can listen to us wherever
you get your podcasts. Rate us, review us, give us
the five stars. It'll help us out and we will
catch you next week.
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