June 10, 2024 • 32 mins
Boston...stand up! After another impressive win in game 2 of the NBA Finals, the Celtics are up 2-0 and 2 games away from hanging banner number 18. On today's BULLY BALL, Rachel and Boogie react to a fun game 2, discuss if the Mavs have any shot at coming back, and if Jrue Holiday is the leader for finals MVP. Plus, what is up with Kyrie's struggles?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back to bully Ball, presented by DraftKings. I'm Rachel
Nichols here at DraftKings headquarters. Look, there's like the fancy
symbol behind me. I'm very official today. And backstate side,
mister Boogie Cousins in a Lakers jersey? What the hell
is going on?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Please?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You know I'm on a little vacation right now. I'm
feeling good. I'm feeling great, so I had to throw
in some greatness. So I threw up. I brought out
the Kobe eight.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
All right. No, I just want to clare this Kobe
jersey more than a Lakers jersey. Right. You're not trying
to send us some signal, are you? Okay? Second, I
don't know. You could be the next coach who knows
things have been crazy this last couple of days. Yes.
(00:53):
By the way, I learned that over in Taiwan. Not
only did you win the finals in the sweep, not
only were you MVP, I learned this morning that you
were voted most popular player.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I was. I was.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I thought it should have been most handsome. But you know,
I'll tell you most popular.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I was gonna say, this is like your book superlatives,
Like I just I don't know most likely to succeed
answer right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I need all that. But you know, I'm grateful for
my time there. It was an amazing experience. You know,
we finished off the right way, which was winning the championship.
So I couldn't ask for a better, you know, experience
in Taiwan.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And now you're in the Florida Panhandle and all's right
with the world.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Everything's moving moving forward. I love it. I'm in a
great place.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Everything's coming up. Fugging it is not coming up to
Dallas Mavericks though. This is a Celtics series all the
way so far in these finals. And look, you and
I talked about this a week ago about just how
much depth the Celtics had, right that even if you decided,
you know, I and I got into this last week.
But I think Luca is still sort of in terms
of best player overall. I think he's the best player
(01:59):
in this series. I just don't think that they have,
you know, Dallas as anywhere near the next maybe what
three best players. I mean, I just think that the
Mavericks just don't have the depth to match the Celtics.
I don't know where you'd put Kyrie in those rankings,
but if you look at where Boston is, they've got
every position and they can go five out and we've
just seen that succeed with them over and over so
(02:20):
far in these first two games.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Man, We've talked about it all year.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
To ask what I'm most impressed about is I'm not
impressed because honestly, this was expected. I've been I've been
preaching the Celtics all year, and I don't want to
take credit like this isn't a well known thing, but
you know, the Celtics were, you know, built for this stage.
They weren't concerned about regular season, they weren't concerned about
(02:51):
you know, individual accolades, any of those things. They built
this team to win the championship. They're the most well
put together team in my opinion. They fit every need.
They have role guys that could literally be stars on
(03:12):
other teams, and obviously that's you know, many other teams
can say that. But the difference is they have star
guys that are fitting the role player type of role,
that are bought in into this role as well. So
I think that's what you know, separates this team. I
don't think anybody and obviously it's this bullshit, you know,
(03:36):
media push to try to continue to push these guys
apart as far as jalb Brown and Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Oh that is not a media push, my friend. That
was a Jason Kidd special. That was a spil Desoda move, which,
by the way, he was already doing that. That he
was already doing that after Game one actually told me
more than almost anything else between the two games. When
he brought that out after Game one, I was like, Oh,
I don't know, this is kind of early to be
bringing out the Jalen Jason thing. What does that tell
(04:04):
you about his confidence in his team?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Then you know, it might it might be they might
be pressing that button early, Like it's time to panic
a little bit. These guys are a lot better than
we thought. But man, this Celtics team, they're they're legit.
And you know, I don't I see the Mavericks possibly
getting the game. You know, game three, I can see,
you know, first home game. You know, they come out
with a lot of energy. Luke and Kyrie play out
(04:29):
of that mind. Kyrie will finally find his groove. But
you know, this is this is the Celtics year, and
it's it's been said all year. They've been dominant, which
I've said time and time again. They've shown it throughout
these playoffs. Obviously, you know, people are a little fans
and the media a little upset that they don't see
(04:51):
this team being challenged the way they would like it to.
But that just goes to show how good this Celtish
team really really is. And you know it's there, you yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I mean, look, obviously when they got through Holiday, it
was such a game changer, and it's there's so much
irony for Milwaukee that they made the trade for Damian
Lillard to be able to beat teams like Boston, right,
I mean, that was the idea, let's get back out
of the Eastern Conference. Let's be the NBA Finals team
out of the East. And they were so hot on
acquiring Dame, and they knew they'd have to give up
(05:23):
Drew to do it. They lost control of where Drew
would go. A lot of teams if they're going to
give up a player of that caliber, they want them
in the other conference, right, they want to be careful
about where they're sending them. By sending him to Portland,
then Portland got control and then it was just about
what was the best deal for Portland. They don't care
if he goes to Boston. In fact, better for them
that he goes all the way out east. So there
(05:43):
is an irony there if you're Milwaukee and watching all this.
I think Drew has made a spectacular difference. Christaps Porzingis
obviously has made a spectacular difference, and it's what this
team needed. I mean, this was a team that was
already a conference finals caliber team. They this year was
their sixth time in eight years going to the conference finals.
They've been to the NBA Finals two years ago. So
we knew the roster offense team, and we knew the
(06:04):
talent level and the Jason and Jalen and all of that.
But the fact that Drew came in and has been
able to do what he has been able to do,
and Kristaps has made such a game changing difference in
the way their offense can run. I just think going
into this series, we talked about it, it was so
obvious sort of all the ways around the court they
were going to be able to both defend and make
a press going forward against Dallas. Now everybody was waiting
(06:27):
for the other shoot to drop though on They're going
to have a bad three point shooting game, right, I mean,
that's always the Achilles heel for the Celtics. They take
the most threes in the NBA. They actually make the
most threes in the NBA, but they have games where
they just you know, can't hit the side of a barn.
And we did see to a degree that's what they
got in Game two. No one on that Celtics team
was shooting well from three. They were ten of thirty
(06:49):
nine twenty five percent from three last night. Now they
made up for it inside the arc, they were what
twenty eight to forty five, sixty two percent from two.
But it was that in a game that Dallas was
hoping for. That was the game the Mavericks should have
been able to take advantage of, right when Dallas wasn't
doing the thing it does best, and they couldn't. And
I think that was very telling. You said, you can
(07:11):
see the MAVs winning a game at home. What can
they do differently to win game three? I mean, they
don't have that deep challeng advantage, but they do have
Luka dancrec What do you think could make the difference
that they could win the Game three at home?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, Obviously, the biggest thing would be, you know, you
want to get Kyrie Rover.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
You know he struggled so far in this series.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And you know you can credit Boston's defense because they
they have so many guys that can guard deposition well
guard Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You have multiple bodies.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Everybody in those switch type situations bring length, bring height.
So that's something that you know could bother Kyrie when
it comes to scoring the ball consistently. But at the
same time, I feel like this is something that you know,
Kyrie being one of the best scores this league has ever seen,
it's about him kind of figuring out their defensive scheme,
(08:06):
finding his spots, finding you know, where can I become
effective in my offensive abilities in this series. You know
it's gonna be different looks than he's used to when
it comes to the playoffs. You know, your first, second,
and third options are studied. Their study hard, your tendencies,
you're intangibles, all that is study hard. So you know,
(08:30):
the Celtics defense knows exactly what he wants to do
with those first, second, and third options. So now it's
time for Kyrie to get to the fourth, fifth, and
six options, and everybody doesn't have that ability. But I
said earlier, this is one of the best scores this
league has ever seen. So he's one of those guys
that have that many options when it comes to scoring
the basketball. So I think he will have a great
(08:50):
showing eventually. I'm thinking Game three will be that that
first home game.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Obviously, you have the home crowd, that energy, you.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Know sometimes that's needed to kind of get you over
the hump and to help you find that rhythm. So
I think he will have a better showing Game three.
And I think this is a chance for the Mavericks
to get a game in this series. I don't think
it changes much, you know, long term when it comes
to who wins this series, but we will see a
better showing from the Mavericks. Well.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Look, I mean they've played The Celtics played nearly one
hundred games if you count the regular season in the playoffs,
and they're seventy eight and twenty. So the idea that
a team that is seventy eight and twenty would somehow
lose four of their next five is I can't see it.
I mean, I just don't see a way for Dallas
to come back, even though we've had some two comebacks
even somewhat recently, right with Milwaukee winning its series after
(09:43):
being down oh two. But it's much harder to see
against the Celtics team. Kyrie is going to have to
get going if there's anything, anything, any shot of this happening.
You mentioned that guys are studying him in film. What
is that like during a playoff series when you guys
are watching film and breaking down one guy and you
know everyone's seeing Kyrie irving for you know, fifteen years now.
(10:04):
But but what is it that the Celtics are doing
in these film sessions as they're looking at Kyrie and
the way he scored against Minnesota?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Well one, well one, you have your you know, you
have your team film where you know everybody's sitting down
together and you know we're going over. You know, Kyrie
likes when he's on the left side of the floor.
He loves to drive right and get back left or
spin back left or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But then you you.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Break it down even further after you have that team
film session, then it goes down to individual sessions, whereas
the guy that's the primary matchup in the series, or
that night where we're going to eat an even deeper
dive of what his tendencies are, what his habits are,
you know, his favorite spots on both sides of the floor.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
In the middle of the floor.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You know, what's his favorite way to finish with his
right hand compared to his left hand. Then you start
breaking down the percentages. Well, when he goes left, he
may shoot, you know, fifty percent, compared to going right,
he shoots about forty six percent. So in this series
you want to try to get them more to his right.
So you know, that's usually the breakdown when it comes to,
you know, figuring out a guy's tendencies. And you know,
(11:12):
obviously you can talk about it and preach it and
study at all you want, but it's a lot easier
said than done. But as so far, you know, the
Celtics team has done a good job defensively. But uh,
you know, Kyrie being the wizard that he is, the
you know, I do think we'll see a big improvement
(11:34):
on the offensive side of the ball because not only
is he not only is he being studied, but he's
also doing the study in himself. And all right, I
see how these guys are playing me. He's going back
watching film as well. You know, they're having their team
field session, then he's having his individual When I have
Jaylen Brown on me, when he closes out, you know,
he closes out left to push me right, so I
(11:56):
may want to top attack his top foot to put
him off balance, to get to you know, breaking it
down in those type of ways. So you know, the
game is being studied on both sides, and like I said,
Kyrie being a wizard that he is, I do feel
we'll see and improved.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I mean, I think this is skill upon skill, right.
I mean, if you look at the Minnesota series, he
topped thirty points in three out of the four games,
and that's just because as good as Minnesota's team defense is,
they don't have the individual defenders the way the Celtics do, right,
I mean, they just don't have those highly highly, highly
skilled defensive specialists. And you've got two All NBA defensive
(12:32):
team players on the Celtics. You've got a third in
Jalen Brown who certainly easily he was the first guy
left off. He easily could have been on that roster.
So the idea that you have three individual defenders who
can really go at Kyrie, I thought Drew Holliday's defense
on Kyrie in particular for the first two games has
been exceptional, and there's one of the reasons that, I mean,
we'll talk about MVP later in this show, but he
(12:54):
has played so well through the first two games, not
only offensively, but just defensively. And it's that defense one.
Because Ryrie is so special, right, I mean, we saw
during that last round during the Conference finals that he
can just pick teams apart, even great defenses apart. But
when you have individuals like Drew Holliday, when you have
a guy like Derek White out there, I do think
(13:15):
Jalen Brown, I do think it makes such a difference
in limiting what he can do. He's shooting just thirty
five percent overall. He's got no made three pointers in
the first two games of this series, twenty eight points
total in the first two games of this series. So
there's just no question that not only are the role
players going to have to play better at home, and
we haven't seen great play out of the role players
(13:35):
so far, Kyrie is going to have to play better
at home. I do wonder if in front of that
home crowd he's more comfortable. He went into this series
being you know, I'm so zen about the Boston crowd,
and I've worked this out, and I've talked it through
off the court, and I know how my feelings are
and all of those things. He made that comment after
Game one, he said, Oh, I thought it would be
louder in here, which I thought was sort of a
weird tweak of the crowd. I don't know why he
(13:58):
felt like he needed to get into that. I saw
him going back and forth a little bit with you
know fans last night when I was in the arena,
and I just I do wonder. It's been so long
since he's won a game against Boston, and I do
wonder if, as much as he sort of was able
to categorize it on the way into the series, if
actually being in the situation was a little distracting for him. Obviously,
(14:21):
you know, the Celtics closing all his windows was also
very distracting for him. But I do think in front
of that home I do think in front of that
home crowd, I hope that he's more comfortable, just because
we'd love to see this's become a little bit more
of a series, and we'd love to see a good game,
you know, competitive game toward the end. Have you ever
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(14:41):
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(15:46):
over to the Boston side and Jason Tatum, you know,
it's interesting to look at his numbers here because he
hasn't had a great offensive series. I think the guys
can call it up here. Let's see, he hasn't been
scored anywhere near his average in the first two games.
He has been leading the Celtics and rebounding. He has
been leading the Celtics and assists. That's one thing that
(16:07):
Joe Miszula talked about last night was, you know, when
he came in Joe as the coach, one of his
big focuses with Tatum was all the ways you can
impact the game, and that Jason has heard so much
his young career because he was such remember I mean
the first Conference finals, he was such a revelation, right
just knocking the ball down, talking about Kobe being his hero.
You know, so much scoring that we just thought that
(16:29):
was all that was the key to any game that
he would have would be based on scoring. And Joe
has really worked with him over these two years to
make sure that if his you know, shots aren't hitting,
he is impacting the game in a huge way. Do
you feel like he does need to up his scoring
or this team is so complete in so many other ways.
If he comes out of this series and they win
(16:50):
the NBA Finals but someone else's finals MVP, that's going
to be just fine.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
When it comes to this Celtics team, it's they're so
good and so talented and so deep. Jason Tatum and
Jalen Brown could struggle and they could steal win games.
It's that much talent, not only in the starting five,
but it's just on that roster in general. I don't
(17:17):
take this as a knock to Jason Tatum. He has
a partner in crime, and I don't want to say,
you know, a sidekick, because I don't look at these
guys as sidekicks. No matter how you want to try
to put the narrative on this combo. It's funny because
when you think about we can go to the other
(17:39):
side and talk about Kyrie and Luca, and nobody says
it's Kyrie is Luca's sidekick. Yeah, they say it's his
partner in crime, Like you know, they're one A, one B,
whatever the case may be. So I don't understand why
it's not the same narrative when it comes to the
Celtics team and Jason Tatum and Jylen Brown, And that's
exactly how I view it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
With Luca and Kyrie. There's such an age difference there
that I feel like, even though no one's like, oh,
Kyrie's lucas sidekick, everyone knows Lucas the better player, and
there's no battling over that because it's just not even
a question. With Tatum and Brown, I think because they
came into you know, a year apart, because they were
both number three picks, because they're both so close in age,
I think that's where there's been this natural like, oh,
(18:21):
who's better, who's the one A guy of the one
A and one B? Don't you right?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Well maybe, but it still doesn't make sense because regardless
of who's one A, one B, who's the first option,
second option? This combination has found success since they've been together,
and that's all that should really matter.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Obviously, they can.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Play well enough together to make it to where it's
a team's success. They win games, they're on the ultimate
stage yearly They're in the playoffs yearly, so I don't
see the issue with who's better who's It doesn't matter.
At the end of the day, if they win a championship,
Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown are champions, and that's all
(19:03):
it should be talk. That's all that should be talked about.
But to go back to answering that question when it
comes to that, I'm okay with Jason Tatum, you know,
maturing in his game, becoming a better playmaker, becoming a
guy that can kind of facilitate and make the guys
around him better instead of focusing on scoring thirty. He
(19:25):
can give us twenty five and also be just as
effective on the defensive end, you know, him averaging twenty
five and Jalen Brown averaging twenty five. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Hit eighteen points in Game two, sixteen points in Game one,
He's shooting thirty one percent from the floor. To your point,
he can do all of that and they're still winning
high level basketball games in the NBA Finals against an
excellent team and Luka Donca who scored. I think he
hit twenty points with still ten minutes to go in
the half last night, So obviously they don't need him
(19:55):
to do more, but I think he would like to
do more. And I think that if he can get
through these finals with having at least one really you know,
high scoring game, I think that will sort of go
a long way confidence wise, not that he needs it.
He obviously is playing pretty confident out there.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I'm sure individually he would would love to be, you know,
making every shot averaging thirty. But you know that's not realistic.
Sometimes you have slumps and sometimes you don't have the
best shooting series. But I'm a firm believer and if
you play the game the right way, when with good intentions,
everything's gonna kind of fall into place. It's when you
start trying to force I got to make sure I'm
(20:32):
the MVP, or that's when you start digging a deeper hole.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
For yourself and then shit can go to shit, if
you know what I mean. So, yep, I appreciate his approach.
I respect his approach.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
At the end of the day, if we win, we
all win, and that should be the team mindset, you know,
finishing out this series. I think they've shown it all
year that they're a very unselfish team, regardless of you
know how we try to twist the narrative, but I
think this approach and how their mindsets are focused on
just winning the championship is part of the reason they're
(21:09):
at this point now in the season. Because as much
talent as they added to this roster, if it was
a little bit of ego in the way, it could
have completely crumbled for the Celtics team. So you have
to give them credit for how they were able to
manage their egos, play for one another, put you know,
put their own personal you know, goals aside for the
(21:30):
ultimate goal, which is winning the championship. And like I said,
it's the reason they've been as dominant as they are
throughout the playoffs, as dominant as they've been throughout the
regular season. And you know, I believe this is their
year to win the championship.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, yeah, it certainly looks like it. And it's interesting
when you look at the Vegas picks we've got. I'll
take that bet presented by DraftKings and Vegas. Even though
they went heavy with the Celtics on this series, they
are saying the MAVs are favorites by one and a
half points for games three three. Are you going to
take that bet or do you think the Celtics go
up three out?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Actually, I actually do think the Mavericks win this one.
Like I said, I think Kyrie will find his stride,
you know, game three, we'll see a better offensive performance
from him. I think the whole Mavericks team would be
energized just being in front of that home crowd, you know,
feeding off of that energy. That home crowd helps you
(22:28):
make plays that you aren't able to make on away games.
And that's just the facts behind.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
So I do think it'll be a better shower from
the Mavericks.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
You know, obviously, the Celtics have had a history kind
of taken their foot off the gas somewhat throughout the year,
and you know, they kind of get a little board.
So I could see that being the case with Game three.
But long time Celtics win it, Masks may get one,
possibly two games, and they see.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I think they kind of got to win game three
otherwise if they're down three to zero, you know that
psychology book, like do you really want to get back
on a plane just so you can lose in Boston?
I mean, the guys kind of, you know, start to
play my games with themselves, I think the role players
are going to have to play better for that Vegas
line to come through, because we just haven't seen from PJ.
Washington or Gafford or some of the other guys who
(23:21):
stepped up. Lively has not been able to make anywhere
near the impact that he made, you know, in that
Minnesota series, So I do think he'll be helped by
being at home. Young players obviously play better at home.
Role players play better at home, you know, and we'll
have to see if they can pull it off. But
to me, Game three is where they'd have to pull
it off, because otherwise it just starts to feel like
a snowball gone downhill. We can look at the finals
(23:44):
at MVP odds, too, which are shaken out. Jason Tatum,
despite all that we were talking about, still the favorite
plus one twenty five, which I'm kind of curious about
because if he's had two poor shooting games, even with
the rebounds and assists, I'm not sure that makes you
an MVP. Jalen Brown is next up on the rankings
at plus one seventy five, Luca is actually next at
(24:07):
plus six hundred, and then the dark horse is Drew
Holiday at plus seven fifty. I don't know, man, I
don't bet on sports, and I don't bet on the
NBA because I'm an NBA voter and all of that,
But I will say that that seems like Drew Holiday
seems like he's he's kind of the leader in the
clubhouse after the first two games. I don't know, are
you taking the Drew Holiday bet here?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Absolutely, I'm a huge Drew Holiday fan. I was, you know,
blessed enough to be able to take the floor with
this guy to serve in my career. I know exactly
what he brings to the floor. You know, he labeled
hisself a utility man and that and I'm a going
record saying that's a damn lie. You're more than that.
(24:50):
You're actually one of the most underrated players in this league,
and you have been for a very long time. Just
what he brings, We're not only even talk about the offense.
I think he's one of you know, he's a very
very talented offensive player and he and not only is
he talented, he's smart, which he doesn't get a lot
of credit, but just defensively, and what he brings on
(25:12):
the defensive side of the ball is it's unmatched I
watched the year I told my Achilles in New Orleans.
I watched him literally destroy Portland's go to guards and
CJ McCullum and Damian Lillard by himself to the point
where they sweep, And it was literally just him just
(25:36):
being himself on the defensive side of the floor.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And it's it's it's almost it's almost.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Where you can watch this dude and being awe like
the same way you can watch a guy perform offensively
and just like, man, this is amazing. Like it's that's
literally him on the defensive side of the floor. And
the sickest part about it is it's almost nonchalant how
he kind of goes about it. You know, most defensive
guys there, there's a lot of extras to you know,
(26:06):
what they bring In Drew, he's just calm, cool and collected,
super nonchalant. And you look up, he's got six steals,
four blocks, the guys shooting four for twenty that night,
and you know, Drew's just laid back, chilling. He probably
didn't even break a sweat. So you know, I'm a
huge Drew Holiday fan. I felt like he would be
(26:28):
the X factor in this series, and I had a
feeling he would kind of be overlooked and what he
brings to the game on a nightly basis. But you know,
I think he's a great He was obviously, I mean
it's hard to do it now.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I mean it's right in front of him and it's
hard to miss it now.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, but you know, coming into this year that wasn't
necessarily the case. He wasn't getting the praise to what
he brings to the game. So I do feel he's
a guy that could you know, sneak in they get him,
you know, a finals MVP and an andre Iguadalar type situation.
You know, not the most impressive numbers, but it's like
(27:08):
you have to respect it and what he brought.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
To this series that I can definitely see that happening
for him.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I mean without Jason Tatum so far. Obviously we're only
two games in, but without Jason Tatum putting up numbers
so far and in fact, particularly not shooting well. I
mean he's not just being average, he's not just below
his normal. He's particularly not shooting well. And look, he's
making it up in other parts of the stat sheet.
He's making it up on other parts of the floor.
You can see his impact of the game just by
watching five minutes. So this is not a knock on
(27:35):
Jason Tatum. But those are not finals MVP numbers. So
you're really talking at this point to me, if the
Celtics continue as they are, and we'll see and Tatum
may turn in three amazing games in a row here,
but for now, you're talking about Jaylen Brown and Drew Holliday.
And the way the voting works is they pick eleven
media members and they give them little slips of paper
at halftime of whatever the closeout games are, and they say,
(27:58):
if this turns into, you know, clinching game, please give
me your slip of paper. Will collect it with you know,
thirty seconds ago, five seconds ago, depending on how close
the game is at the end of that close out
clinching game. And of those eleven people, you know, you
kind of look at the numbers they look at obviously
their impact on winning, and I think there's some sentiment
(28:19):
there too sometimes. And Drew Holliday is a media favorite.
I think that media members people like you who watch
the game closely. I don't even think it's like, oh,
we like him because he's a good guy. Although I
do think people like him because he's an extremely good guy.
I think that anyone who watches basketball regularly, and if
you are in the basketball media picking Finals MVP, you
watch a hell of a lot of basketball games. You
(28:39):
know Drew Holiday's value. So I just think that that.
I see that seven plus seven fifty odds and I'm like, man,
I don't know, that seems like something you might want
to have. I got to draft take advantage of. That's
all I have to say. We'll see, we'll see. End book.
Jalen Brown, I talked to him a little bit last night,
you know. I was chatting with him about the comment
(29:01):
he made after winning Eastern Conference Finals MVP where He's like, oh,
I never win this shit, and I was like, look,
it's time for you to win some of this shit.
So if Jalen Brown ends up winning, obviously, I think
that will be you know, overdue too. He also he
and Jason Tatum pretty much are getting matching have matching
contracts coming up. The kick in I believe this summer
three hundred million dollars plus. I think Jalen's got done second,
(29:23):
so his is a little bigger. The way of these
all incrementally rise, but with the way the salary cap
is expected to go up because this new TV deal
coming in, I think in hindsight those deals are going
to look not a bargain, but they're going to look
very reasonable compared to what some other teams around the
league do. And this is a team that if they
can get over this hump, if they really can win
a title after getting close and getting close and the
(29:45):
psychological sort of are we ever going to get there?
Is it really going to happen for us? Do they
have to break this roster up that kind of thing?
If they get over that hump. These guys are young still,
They're in their mid to late twenties, and there is
a lot of room to go. This team is built
so well. Brad Stevens one Executive of the Year this
year for a very good reason. It's gonna be very
(30:06):
interesting to see how these next couple of games go.
But by the time we talk next week, it's possible
the finals could be wrapped up. Now, not probable. Sweeps
are still hard, but it's possible. It's possible that that
could be that way. I just want to know for you, like,
once the finals are over, what's the plan for you,
you have vacation, talking their boat involved. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I'm a monk grind right now, right so you know,
I'm our vacation a little bit in between, but I'm
on mynk grind. I got a lot of things rolling
overseas right now.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So yes, you did looking forward.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
To that, and obviously, well speak on those things when
those times come about.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
But you know, I'm on my grind. It never stops
for me.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
And meantime between time, I'm enjoying my family. We're going
on vacation, We're going to enjoy his life, the frust
of our labor, and you know, talk basketball. So everything's
good and moving in the right direction for me.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Well, you got the whole basketball world coming to your
doorstep in Las Vegas next month because Tmosa Training Camp
is going to be there in a huge exhibition game,
and then of course Summer League is going to be
there too, so we will be seeing a lot of
you in your home. Maybe you can have us all
over for barbecue. I'm just saying I like, but I
(31:30):
do think we'll probably have at least one more NBA
Finals game to talk about next week. Until then, though,
I'm so psyched to have you back in the state's
most popular player, and I'm glad to get a little
favor of time now too. I appreciate it. And by
next week maybe they'll actually be a Lakers coach. We
can talk about that jersey you're wearing as well, all right,
(31:51):
Thanks to all of you out there. You can catch
all episodes of Bullyball on the DraftKings Network as you
can see over my shoulder. You can catch us on
the alf the Smoke Productions YouTube channel. Can catch us
wherever you get your podcast. Rate us, review us. We
will see you next week. Enjoy the basketball until then,
Welcome back to bully Ball, presented by DraftKings. I'm Rachel
Nichols here at DraftKings headquarters. Look, there's like the fancy
symbol behind me. I'm very official today. And backstate side,
mister Boogie Cousins in a Lakers jersey? What the hell
is going on?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Please?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You know I'm on a little vacation right now. I'm
feeling good. I'm feeling great, so I had to throw
in some greatness. So I threw up. I brought out
the Kobe eight.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
All right. No, I just want to clare this Kobe
jersey more than a Lakers jersey. Right. You're not trying
to send us some signal, are you? Okay? Second, I
don't know. You could be the next coach who knows
things have been crazy this last couple of days. Yes.
(00:53):
By the way, I learned that over in Taiwan. Not
only did you win the finals in the sweep, not
only were you MVP, I learned this morning that you
were voted most popular player.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I was. I was.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I thought it should have been most handsome. But you know,
I'll tell you most popular.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I was gonna say, this is like your book superlatives,
Like I just I don't know most likely to succeed
answer right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I need all that. But you know, I'm grateful for
my time there. It was an amazing experience. You know,
we finished off the right way, which was winning the championship.
So I couldn't ask for a better, you know, experience
in Taiwan.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And now you're in the Florida Panhandle and all's right
with the world.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Everything's moving moving forward. I love it. I'm in a
great place.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Everything's coming up. Fugging it is not coming up to
Dallas Mavericks though. This is a Celtics series all the
way so far in these finals. And look, you and
I talked about this a week ago about just how
much depth the Celtics had, right that even if you decided,
you know, I and I got into this last week.
But I think Luca is still sort of in terms
of best player overall. I think he's the best player
(01:59):
in this series. I just don't think that they have,
you know, Dallas as anywhere near the next maybe what
three best players. I mean, I just think that the
Mavericks just don't have the depth to match the Celtics.
I don't know where you'd put Kyrie in those rankings,
but if you look at where Boston is, they've got
every position and they can go five out and we've
just seen that succeed with them over and over so
(02:20):
far in these first two games.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Man, We've talked about it all year.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
To ask what I'm most impressed about is I'm not
impressed because honestly, this was expected. I've been I've been
preaching the Celtics all year, and I don't want to
take credit like this isn't a well known thing, but
you know, the Celtics were, you know, built for this stage.
They weren't concerned about regular season, they weren't concerned about
(02:51):
you know, individual accolades, any of those things. They built
this team to win the championship. They're the most well
put together team in my opinion. They fit every need.
They have role guys that could literally be stars on
(03:12):
other teams, and obviously that's you know, many other teams
can say that. But the difference is they have star
guys that are fitting the role player type of role,
that are bought in into this role as well. So
I think that's what you know, separates this team. I
don't think anybody and obviously it's this bullshit, you know,
(03:36):
media push to try to continue to push these guys
apart as far as jalb Brown and Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Oh that is not a media push, my friend. That
was a Jason Kidd special. That was a spil Desoda move, which,
by the way, he was already doing that. That he
was already doing that after Game one actually told me
more than almost anything else between the two games. When
he brought that out after Game one, I was like, Oh,
I don't know, this is kind of early to be
bringing out the Jalen Jason thing. What does that tell
(04:04):
you about his confidence in his team?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Then you know, it might it might be they might
be pressing that button early, Like it's time to panic
a little bit. These guys are a lot better than
we thought. But man, this Celtics team, they're they're legit.
And you know, I don't I see the Mavericks possibly
getting the game. You know, game three, I can see,
you know, first home game. You know, they come out
with a lot of energy. Luke and Kyrie play out
(04:29):
of that mind. Kyrie will finally find his groove. But
you know, this is this is the Celtics year, and
it's it's been said all year. They've been dominant, which
I've said time and time again. They've shown it throughout
these playoffs. Obviously, you know, people are a little fans
and the media a little upset that they don't see
(04:51):
this team being challenged the way they would like it to.
But that just goes to show how good this Celtish
team really really is. And you know it's there, you yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I mean, look, obviously when they got through Holiday, it
was such a game changer, and it's there's so much
irony for Milwaukee that they made the trade for Damian
Lillard to be able to beat teams like Boston, right,
I mean, that was the idea, let's get back out
of the Eastern Conference. Let's be the NBA Finals team
out of the East. And they were so hot on
acquiring Dame, and they knew they'd have to give up
(05:23):
Drew to do it. They lost control of where Drew
would go. A lot of teams if they're going to
give up a player of that caliber, they want them
in the other conference, right, they want to be careful
about where they're sending them. By sending him to Portland,
then Portland got control and then it was just about
what was the best deal for Portland. They don't care
if he goes to Boston. In fact, better for them
that he goes all the way out east. So there
(05:43):
is an irony there if you're Milwaukee and watching all this.
I think Drew has made a spectacular difference. Christaps Porzingis
obviously has made a spectacular difference, and it's what this
team needed. I mean, this was a team that was
already a conference finals caliber team. They this year was
their sixth time in eight years going to the conference finals.
They've been to the NBA Finals two years ago. So
we knew the roster offense team, and we knew the
(06:04):
talent level and the Jason and Jalen and all of that.
But the fact that Drew came in and has been
able to do what he has been able to do,
and Kristaps has made such a game changing difference in
the way their offense can run. I just think going
into this series, we talked about it, it was so
obvious sort of all the ways around the court they
were going to be able to both defend and make
a press going forward against Dallas. Now everybody was waiting
(06:27):
for the other shoot to drop though on They're going
to have a bad three point shooting game, right, I mean,
that's always the Achilles heel for the Celtics. They take
the most threes in the NBA. They actually make the
most threes in the NBA, but they have games where
they just you know, can't hit the side of a barn.
And we did see to a degree that's what they
got in Game two. No one on that Celtics team
was shooting well from three. They were ten of thirty
(06:49):
nine twenty five percent from three last night. Now they
made up for it inside the arc, they were what
twenty eight to forty five, sixty two percent from two.
But it was that in a game that Dallas was
hoping for. That was the game the Mavericks should have
been able to take advantage of, right when Dallas wasn't
doing the thing it does best, and they couldn't. And
I think that was very telling. You said, you can
(07:11):
see the MAVs winning a game at home. What can
they do differently to win game three? I mean, they
don't have that deep challeng advantage, but they do have
Luka dancrec What do you think could make the difference
that they could win the Game three at home?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, Obviously, the biggest thing would be, you know, you
want to get Kyrie Rover.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
You know he struggled so far in this series.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And you know you can credit Boston's defense because they
they have so many guys that can guard deposition well
guard Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You have multiple bodies.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Everybody in those switch type situations bring length, bring height.
So that's something that you know could bother Kyrie when
it comes to scoring the ball consistently. But at the
same time, I feel like this is something that you know,
Kyrie being one of the best scores this league has ever seen,
it's about him kind of figuring out their defensive scheme,
(08:06):
finding his spots, finding you know, where can I become
effective in my offensive abilities in this series. You know
it's gonna be different looks than he's used to when
it comes to the playoffs. You know, your first, second,
and third options are studied. Their study hard, your tendencies,
you're intangibles, all that is study hard. So you know,
(08:30):
the Celtics defense knows exactly what he wants to do
with those first, second, and third options. So now it's
time for Kyrie to get to the fourth, fifth, and
six options, and everybody doesn't have that ability. But I
said earlier, this is one of the best scores this
league has ever seen. So he's one of those guys
that have that many options when it comes to scoring
the basketball. So I think he will have a great
(08:50):
showing eventually. I'm thinking Game three will be that that
first home game.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Obviously, you have the home crowd, that energy, you.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Know sometimes that's needed to kind of get you over
the hump and to help you find that rhythm. So
I think he will have a better showing Game three.
And I think this is a chance for the Mavericks
to get a game in this series. I don't think
it changes much, you know, long term when it comes
to who wins this series, but we will see a
better showing from the Mavericks. Well.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Look, I mean they've played The Celtics played nearly one
hundred games if you count the regular season in the playoffs,
and they're seventy eight and twenty. So the idea that
a team that is seventy eight and twenty would somehow
lose four of their next five is I can't see it.
I mean, I just don't see a way for Dallas
to come back, even though we've had some two comebacks
even somewhat recently, right with Milwaukee winning its series after
(09:43):
being down oh two. But it's much harder to see
against the Celtics team. Kyrie is going to have to
get going if there's anything, anything, any shot of this happening.
You mentioned that guys are studying him in film. What
is that like during a playoff series when you guys
are watching film and breaking down one guy and you
know everyone's seeing Kyrie irving for you know, fifteen years now.
(10:04):
But but what is it that the Celtics are doing
in these film sessions as they're looking at Kyrie and
the way he scored against Minnesota?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Well one, well one, you have your you know, you
have your team film where you know everybody's sitting down
together and you know we're going over. You know, Kyrie
likes when he's on the left side of the floor.
He loves to drive right and get back left or
spin back left or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But then you you.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Break it down even further after you have that team
film session, then it goes down to individual sessions, whereas
the guy that's the primary matchup in the series, or
that night where we're going to eat an even deeper
dive of what his tendencies are, what his habits are,
you know, his favorite spots on both sides of the floor.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
In the middle of the floor.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You know, what's his favorite way to finish with his
right hand compared to his left hand. Then you start
breaking down the percentages. Well, when he goes left, he
may shoot, you know, fifty percent, compared to going right,
he shoots about forty six percent. So in this series
you want to try to get them more to his right.
So you know, that's usually the breakdown when it comes to,
you know, figuring out a guy's tendencies. And you know,
(11:12):
obviously you can talk about it and preach it and
study at all you want, but it's a lot easier
said than done. But as so far, you know, the
Celtics team has done a good job defensively. But uh,
you know, Kyrie being the wizard that he is, the
you know, I do think we'll see a big improvement
(11:34):
on the offensive side of the ball because not only
is he not only is he being studied, but he's
also doing the study in himself. And all right, I
see how these guys are playing me. He's going back
watching film as well. You know, they're having their team
field session, then he's having his individual When I have
Jaylen Brown on me, when he closes out, you know,
he closes out left to push me right, so I
(11:56):
may want to top attack his top foot to put
him off balance, to get to you know, breaking it
down in those type of ways. So you know, the
game is being studied on both sides, and like I said,
Kyrie being a wizard that he is, I do feel
we'll see and improved.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I mean, I think this is skill upon skill, right.
I mean, if you look at the Minnesota series, he
topped thirty points in three out of the four games,
and that's just because as good as Minnesota's team defense is,
they don't have the individual defenders the way the Celtics do, right,
I mean, they just don't have those highly highly, highly
skilled defensive specialists. And you've got two All NBA defensive
(12:32):
team players on the Celtics. You've got a third in
Jalen Brown who certainly easily he was the first guy
left off. He easily could have been on that roster.
So the idea that you have three individual defenders who
can really go at Kyrie, I thought Drew Holliday's defense
on Kyrie in particular for the first two games has
been exceptional, and there's one of the reasons that, I mean,
we'll talk about MVP later in this show, but he
(12:54):
has played so well through the first two games, not
only offensively, but just defensively. And it's that defense one.
Because Ryrie is so special, right, I mean, we saw
during that last round during the Conference finals that he
can just pick teams apart, even great defenses apart. But
when you have individuals like Drew Holliday, when you have
a guy like Derek White out there, I do think
(13:15):
Jalen Brown, I do think it makes such a difference
in limiting what he can do. He's shooting just thirty
five percent overall. He's got no made three pointers in
the first two games of this series, twenty eight points
total in the first two games of this series. So
there's just no question that not only are the role
players going to have to play better at home, and
we haven't seen great play out of the role players
(13:35):
so far, Kyrie is going to have to play better
at home. I do wonder if in front of that
home crowd he's more comfortable. He went into this series
being you know, I'm so zen about the Boston crowd,
and I've worked this out, and I've talked it through
off the court, and I know how my feelings are
and all of those things. He made that comment after
Game one, he said, Oh, I thought it would be
louder in here, which I thought was sort of a
weird tweak of the crowd. I don't know why he
(13:58):
felt like he needed to get into that. I saw
him going back and forth a little bit with you
know fans last night when I was in the arena,
and I just I do wonder. It's been so long
since he's won a game against Boston, and I do
wonder if, as much as he sort of was able
to categorize it on the way into the series, if
actually being in the situation was a little distracting for him. Obviously,
(14:21):
you know, the Celtics closing all his windows was also
very distracting for him. But I do think in front
of that home I do think in front of that
home crowd, I hope that he's more comfortable, just because
we'd love to see this's become a little bit more
of a series, and we'd love to see a good game,
you know, competitive game toward the end. Have you ever
wondered if Chet Holmgren might be a descendant of Abraham
(14:41):
Lincoln or if a UFC fighter could beat an alien
in a fight. Well maybe you haven't, and that's okay.
But Chase Serrano and Jason Concepsi owned from six trophies.
Well they certainly have. If you're like me and you'd
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(15:04):
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patented mix of joy banter, pop culture side quests. They
also hand out six pop culture themed trophies for six
basketball related activities, stuff like the Denzel Washington and Training
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(15:25):
You might win some, but you just lost one trophy
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follow Bullyball but also follow six trophies on the Wondery
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listen ad free by joining Wondery Plus. If we go
(15:46):
over to the Boston side and Jason Tatum, you know,
it's interesting to look at his numbers here because he
hasn't had a great offensive series. I think the guys
can call it up here. Let's see, he hasn't been
scored anywhere near his average in the first two games.
He has been leading the Celtics and rebounding. He has
been leading the Celtics and assists. That's one thing that
(16:07):
Joe Miszula talked about last night was, you know, when
he came in Joe as the coach, one of his
big focuses with Tatum was all the ways you can
impact the game, and that Jason has heard so much
his young career because he was such remember I mean
the first Conference finals, he was such a revelation, right
just knocking the ball down, talking about Kobe being his hero.
You know, so much scoring that we just thought that
(16:29):
was all that was the key to any game that
he would have would be based on scoring. And Joe
has really worked with him over these two years to
make sure that if his you know, shots aren't hitting,
he is impacting the game in a huge way. Do
you feel like he does need to up his scoring
or this team is so complete in so many other ways.
If he comes out of this series and they win
(16:50):
the NBA Finals but someone else's finals MVP, that's going
to be just fine.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
When it comes to this Celtics team, it's they're so
good and so talented and so deep. Jason Tatum and
Jalen Brown could struggle and they could steal win games.
It's that much talent, not only in the starting five,
but it's just on that roster in general. I don't
(17:17):
take this as a knock to Jason Tatum. He has
a partner in crime, and I don't want to say,
you know, a sidekick, because I don't look at these
guys as sidekicks. No matter how you want to try
to put the narrative on this combo. It's funny because
when you think about we can go to the other
(17:39):
side and talk about Kyrie and Luca, and nobody says
it's Kyrie is Luca's sidekick. Yeah, they say it's his
partner in crime, Like you know, they're one A, one B,
whatever the case may be. So I don't understand why
it's not the same narrative when it comes to the
Celtics team and Jason Tatum and Jylen Brown, And that's
exactly how I view it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
With Luca and Kyrie. There's such an age difference there
that I feel like, even though no one's like, oh,
Kyrie's lucas sidekick, everyone knows Lucas the better player, and
there's no battling over that because it's just not even
a question. With Tatum and Brown, I think because they
came into you know, a year apart, because they were
both number three picks, because they're both so close in age,
I think that's where there's been this natural like, oh,
(18:21):
who's better, who's the one A guy of the one
A and one B? Don't you right?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Well maybe, but it still doesn't make sense because regardless
of who's one A, one B, who's the first option,
second option? This combination has found success since they've been together,
and that's all that should really matter.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Obviously, they can.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Play well enough together to make it to where it's
a team's success. They win games, they're on the ultimate
stage yearly They're in the playoffs yearly, so I don't
see the issue with who's better who's It doesn't matter.
At the end of the day, if they win a championship,
Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown are champions, and that's all
(19:03):
it should be talk. That's all that should be talked about.
But to go back to answering that question when it
comes to that, I'm okay with Jason Tatum, you know,
maturing in his game, becoming a better playmaker, becoming a
guy that can kind of facilitate and make the guys
around him better instead of focusing on scoring thirty. He
(19:25):
can give us twenty five and also be just as
effective on the defensive end, you know, him averaging twenty
five and Jalen Brown averaging twenty five. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Hit eighteen points in Game two, sixteen points in Game one,
He's shooting thirty one percent from the floor. To your point,
he can do all of that and they're still winning
high level basketball games in the NBA Finals against an
excellent team and Luka Donca who scored. I think he
hit twenty points with still ten minutes to go in
the half last night, So obviously they don't need him
(19:55):
to do more, but I think he would like to
do more. And I think that if he can get
through these finals with having at least one really you know,
high scoring game, I think that will sort of go
a long way confidence wise, not that he needs it.
He obviously is playing pretty confident out there.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I'm sure individually he would would love to be, you know,
making every shot averaging thirty. But you know that's not realistic.
Sometimes you have slumps and sometimes you don't have the
best shooting series. But I'm a firm believer and if
you play the game the right way, when with good intentions,
everything's gonna kind of fall into place. It's when you
start trying to force I got to make sure I'm
(20:32):
the MVP, or that's when you start digging a deeper hole.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
For yourself and then shit can go to shit, if
you know what I mean. So, yep, I appreciate his approach.
I respect his approach.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
At the end of the day, if we win, we
all win, and that should be the team mindset, you know,
finishing out this series. I think they've shown it all
year that they're a very unselfish team, regardless of you
know how we try to twist the narrative, but I
think this approach and how their mindsets are focused on
just winning the championship is part of the reason they're
(21:09):
at this point now in the season. Because as much
talent as they added to this roster, if it was
a little bit of ego in the way, it could
have completely crumbled for the Celtics team. So you have
to give them credit for how they were able to
manage their egos, play for one another, put you know,
put their own personal you know, goals aside for the
(21:30):
ultimate goal, which is winning the championship. And like I said,
it's the reason they've been as dominant as they are
throughout the playoffs, as dominant as they've been throughout the
regular season. And you know, I believe this is their
year to win the championship.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, yeah, it certainly looks like it. And it's interesting
when you look at the Vegas picks we've got. I'll
take that bet presented by DraftKings and Vegas. Even though
they went heavy with the Celtics on this series, they
are saying the MAVs are favorites by one and a
half points for games three three. Are you going to
take that bet or do you think the Celtics go
up three out?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Actually, I actually do think the Mavericks win this one.
Like I said, I think Kyrie will find his stride,
you know, game three, we'll see a better offensive performance
from him. I think the whole Mavericks team would be
energized just being in front of that home crowd, you know,
feeding off of that energy. That home crowd helps you
(22:28):
make plays that you aren't able to make on away games.
And that's just the facts behind.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
So I do think it'll be a better shower from
the Mavericks.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
You know, obviously, the Celtics have had a history kind
of taken their foot off the gas somewhat throughout the year,
and you know, they kind of get a little board.
So I could see that being the case with Game three.
But long time Celtics win it, Masks may get one,
possibly two games, and they see.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I think they kind of got to win game three
otherwise if they're down three to zero, you know that
psychology book, like do you really want to get back
on a plane just so you can lose in Boston?
I mean, the guys kind of, you know, start to
play my games with themselves, I think the role players
are going to have to play better for that Vegas
line to come through, because we just haven't seen from PJ.
Washington or Gafford or some of the other guys who
(23:21):
stepped up. Lively has not been able to make anywhere
near the impact that he made, you know, in that
Minnesota series, So I do think he'll be helped by
being at home. Young players obviously play better at home.
Role players play better at home, you know, and we'll
have to see if they can pull it off. But
to me, Game three is where they'd have to pull
it off, because otherwise it just starts to feel like
a snowball gone downhill. We can look at the finals
(23:44):
at MVP odds, too, which are shaken out. Jason Tatum,
despite all that we were talking about, still the favorite
plus one twenty five, which I'm kind of curious about
because if he's had two poor shooting games, even with
the rebounds and assists, I'm not sure that makes you
an MVP. Jalen Brown is next up on the rankings
at plus one seventy five, Luca is actually next at
(24:07):
plus six hundred, and then the dark horse is Drew
Holiday at plus seven fifty. I don't know, man, I
don't bet on sports, and I don't bet on the
NBA because I'm an NBA voter and all of that,
But I will say that that seems like Drew Holiday
seems like he's he's kind of the leader in the
clubhouse after the first two games. I don't know, are
you taking the Drew Holiday bet here?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Absolutely, I'm a huge Drew Holiday fan. I was, you know,
blessed enough to be able to take the floor with
this guy to serve in my career. I know exactly
what he brings to the floor. You know, he labeled
hisself a utility man and that and I'm a going
record saying that's a damn lie. You're more than that.
(24:50):
You're actually one of the most underrated players in this league,
and you have been for a very long time. Just
what he brings, We're not only even talk about the offense.
I think he's one of you know, he's a very
very talented offensive player and he and not only is
he talented, he's smart, which he doesn't get a lot
of credit, but just defensively, and what he brings on
(25:12):
the defensive side of the ball is it's unmatched I
watched the year I told my Achilles in New Orleans.
I watched him literally destroy Portland's go to guards and
CJ McCullum and Damian Lillard by himself to the point
where they sweep, And it was literally just him just
(25:36):
being himself on the defensive side of the floor.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And it's it's it's almost it's almost.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Where you can watch this dude and being awe like
the same way you can watch a guy perform offensively
and just like, man, this is amazing. Like it's that's
literally him on the defensive side of the floor. And
the sickest part about it is it's almost nonchalant how
he kind of goes about it. You know, most defensive
guys there, there's a lot of extras to you know,
(26:06):
what they bring In Drew, he's just calm, cool and collected,
super nonchalant. And you look up, he's got six steals,
four blocks, the guys shooting four for twenty that night,
and you know, Drew's just laid back, chilling. He probably
didn't even break a sweat. So you know, I'm a
huge Drew Holiday fan. I felt like he would be
(26:28):
the X factor in this series, and I had a
feeling he would kind of be overlooked and what he
brings to the game on a nightly basis. But you know,
I think he's a great He was obviously, I mean
it's hard to do it now.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I mean it's right in front of him and it's
hard to miss it now.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, but you know, coming into this year that wasn't
necessarily the case. He wasn't getting the praise to what
he brings to the game. So I do feel he's
a guy that could you know, sneak in they get him,
you know, a finals MVP and an andre Iguadalar type situation.
You know, not the most impressive numbers, but it's like
(27:08):
you have to respect it and what he brought.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
To this series that I can definitely see that happening
for him.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I mean without Jason Tatum so far. Obviously we're only
two games in, but without Jason Tatum putting up numbers
so far and in fact, particularly not shooting well. I
mean he's not just being average, he's not just below
his normal. He's particularly not shooting well. And look, he's
making it up in other parts of the stat sheet.
He's making it up on other parts of the floor.
You can see his impact of the game just by
watching five minutes. So this is not a knock on
(27:35):
Jason Tatum. But those are not finals MVP numbers. So
you're really talking at this point to me, if the
Celtics continue as they are, and we'll see and Tatum
may turn in three amazing games in a row here,
but for now, you're talking about Jaylen Brown and Drew Holliday.
And the way the voting works is they pick eleven
media members and they give them little slips of paper
at halftime of whatever the closeout games are, and they say,
(27:58):
if this turns into, you know, clinching game, please give
me your slip of paper. Will collect it with you know,
thirty seconds ago, five seconds ago, depending on how close
the game is at the end of that close out
clinching game. And of those eleven people, you know, you
kind of look at the numbers they look at obviously
their impact on winning, and I think there's some sentiment
(28:19):
there too sometimes. And Drew Holliday is a media favorite.
I think that media members people like you who watch
the game closely. I don't even think it's like, oh,
we like him because he's a good guy. Although I
do think people like him because he's an extremely good guy.
I think that anyone who watches basketball regularly, and if
you are in the basketball media picking Finals MVP, you
watch a hell of a lot of basketball games. You
(28:39):
know Drew Holiday's value. So I just think that that.
I see that seven plus seven fifty odds and I'm like, man,
I don't know, that seems like something you might want
to have. I got to draft take advantage of. That's
all I have to say. We'll see, we'll see. End book.
Jalen Brown, I talked to him a little bit last night,
you know. I was chatting with him about the comment
(29:01):
he made after winning Eastern Conference Finals MVP where He's like, oh,
I never win this shit, and I was like, look,
it's time for you to win some of this shit.
So if Jalen Brown ends up winning, obviously, I think
that will be you know, overdue too. He also he
and Jason Tatum pretty much are getting matching have matching
contracts coming up. The kick in I believe this summer
three hundred million dollars plus. I think Jalen's got done second,
(29:23):
so his is a little bigger. The way of these
all incrementally rise, but with the way the salary cap
is expected to go up because this new TV deal
coming in, I think in hindsight those deals are going
to look not a bargain, but they're going to look
very reasonable compared to what some other teams around the
league do. And this is a team that if they
can get over this hump, if they really can win
a title after getting close and getting close and the
(29:45):
psychological sort of are we ever going to get there?
Is it really going to happen for us? Do they
have to break this roster up that kind of thing?
If they get over that hump. These guys are young still,
They're in their mid to late twenties, and there is
a lot of room to go. This team is built
so well. Brad Stevens one Executive of the Year this
year for a very good reason. It's gonna be very
(30:06):
interesting to see how these next couple of games go.
But by the time we talk next week, it's possible
the finals could be wrapped up. Now, not probable. Sweeps
are still hard, but it's possible. It's possible that that
could be that way. I just want to know for you, like,
once the finals are over, what's the plan for you,
you have vacation, talking their boat involved. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I'm a monk grind right now, right so you know,
I'm our vacation a little bit in between, but I'm
on mynk grind. I got a lot of things rolling
overseas right now.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So yes, you did looking forward.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
To that, and obviously, well speak on those things when
those times come about.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
But you know, I'm on my grind. It never stops
for me.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
And meantime between time, I'm enjoying my family. We're going
on vacation, We're going to enjoy his life, the frust
of our labor, and you know, talk basketball. So everything's
good and moving in the right direction for me.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Well, you got the whole basketball world coming to your
doorstep in Las Vegas next month because Tmosa Training Camp
is going to be there in a huge exhibition game,
and then of course Summer League is going to be
there too, so we will be seeing a lot of
you in your home. Maybe you can have us all
over for barbecue. I'm just saying I like, but I
(31:30):
do think we'll probably have at least one more NBA
Finals game to talk about next week. Until then, though,
I'm so psyched to have you back in the state's
most popular player, and I'm glad to get a little
favor of time now too. I appreciate it. And by
next week maybe they'll actually be a Lakers coach. We
can talk about that jersey you're wearing as well, all right,
(31:51):
Thanks to all of you out there. You can catch
all episodes of Bullyball on the DraftKings Network as you
can see over my shoulder. You can catch us on
the alf the Smoke Productions YouTube channel. Can catch us
wherever you get your podcast. Rate us, review us. We
will see you next week. Enjoy the basketball until then,
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