May 13, 2024 • 51 mins
It was huge Sunday of hoops and BULLY BALL is here to recap it all. Rachel, Boogie & Rondo break down the series tying wins by the Pacers and Nuggets. Is it Denver's series to win after making good adjustments? Are the Knicks running out of gas after playing big minutes? Plus, PJ Washington is on fire and Kyrie's leadership is helping the Mavs. Also, the Suns hire Mike Budenholzer. Will it even matter?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Bullyball, presented by DraftKings. I am Rachel Nichols.
That always is mister DeMarcus Cousins still in Taiwan, and
you can tell because he has no plant and that
makes me very sad.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Fortunately we have Region Rondo with us again.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Who is a beautiful You're giving us a beautiful tour
of your house. Basically every episode we get a different view.
It's a nice crib. Man.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm impressed, is all I gotta say.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Appreciate it, Thank you, Rachel.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
But you're gonna step it up over there.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, I'm trying, man, I'm trying. I think don't owe
me a little money anyway, But we'll talk about that
another time. What you say, I think you a little
bridge from my last Blue Ery game. I could be wrong.
I'm gonna check my notes. Years I was your teammate. Man,
don't matter.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I was gonna say, Man, you owe me.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I've never pity your book. That's not true. You.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I think I got a little section of the house
over here with your name on. Actually, that's cool and
we can settle with that.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Then. I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
You donated, that's why the rooms are so nice.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
But years I was cud.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
It was like, you dog, you're sweet as okay.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And no one of you is in a palatial estate
and the other one has a giant door behind him.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You know whatever, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
That door from, Uh, that's a special wood. So don't
get it twisted, all right, all right, all right, I'm
gonna let you know where it was shipped from. Yeah.
Do That's what I looked like. Yeah whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I was going to make this an interior decorating podcast,
but instead let's talk about some NBA.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We gotta talk the best series of this round Denver, Minnesota.
After dropping the two first games at home, a lot
of people just bearing them. After those couple of games,
the Nuggets came back even the series. This was a
crazy weekend in Minnesota, and look, I know what's going
to happen here in Denver is not out of the woods.
Only five teams in the history of the NBA have
(02:23):
ever gone down two at home and then come back
to win a best of seven, so the mountain is
very steep still for them. Minnesota obviously exceptional and Edwards
again another forty point plus game, so they are still
super dangerous. But it does feel like the Nuggets took
something back in this series that they figured something else
out Jamal Murray. They had a few days break. Every
(02:46):
series has a little bit of a break at some point,
and this was where the Minnesota Denver one was right
before they went into Minnesota. So I think Jamal Murray
looked healthier, just looked better. And obviously Aaron Gordon made
a huge impact on both of them games, but particularly
in Game four, I thought Michael Malone had some great
strategy there. Took Aaron Gordon a bit out of the
(03:06):
dunker spot, made Gober run around a bit more on
the perimeter. But overall to the feel of this team, Boogie,
it just felt like a team that knew what it
had to do in those big moments in Minnesota, man
just got overwhelmed a few times.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Right, Absolutely, I think we're seeing the difference between a
championship veteran team and a young team that's trying to
figure it out. Obviously, Minnesota found some success early on
in the series. I'm not going to take away the
fact that I think they're a great team, which I
still think there are, But on the flip side of things,
(03:44):
when it comes to Denver, they show They've shown that
they have another level that they can go to, and
you know, that's what we've seen in the last two
games from this series. So with that being said, obviously
coach Malone has made some adjustments. You said, when it
comes to Aaron Gordon moving him around the floor, I
(04:05):
don't I don't like to to be the dead horse,
but when it comes to a three time defensive Player
of the Year that I'm gonna need a little more.
I'm gonna need a little more on the defensive end,
a whole lot more. Excuse me, excuse me, Yeah, four
(04:28):
time defensive Player of the Year. You look at the
defensive numbers, is you know, it's one point three blocks
a game. And then I looked at the other side
and I look at the Who's a guy who isn't
even considered defensive a defensive player, but he's averaging about
one point eight blocks a game, almost two steals a game.
So I'm just not really understanding the narrative or the
(04:51):
impact that everybody is seeing from this so called, you know,
generational defender. So obviously I feel like it needs to
be it needs to be more from that from that end,
on the on the Minnesota side. But at the end
of the day, this isn't you know, the reigning champs.
They've been here before, they've seen they They're a well
(05:13):
seasoned team. They've been through a lot of adversity. They've
been on the losing side of things, they've been on
the winning side of things, so they've they've seen it
all when it comes to being at this stage, and
we're now seeing a young team that's figuring it out
and they're now starting to hit their adversity so or
you could say growing pain. So I think that's the
difference in the series. Obviously, Jamal Murray's stepping up and
(05:37):
playing at the level that we're customed to seeing at
this time of year from him. That helps Denver tremendously.
Aaron Gordon stepping up, playing the way he played in
the last game, and you know that's the results of
those guys stepping up. And on the other side of things,
you're gonna need more than just Anthony Evers scoring forty
points in the game. He's gonna need more production from
(05:59):
the guys around him. Cat didn't have the greatest shooting night.
We're gonna need more production from him. We in order
for them to find success in this series. Cat's gonna
have to average at least eighteen to twenty two a
game per night. So it's definitely gonna need on the Minnesota.
Minnesota side of things, they're definitely gonna have to step
(06:20):
up from a production standpoint. Obviously, Kat offensively, the generational
defender definitely has to step up. And you know, I mean,
I don't he I don't see it. I don't see it.
(06:40):
I'm sorry, like, and this is no hate, this is
no knock, Like I'm a fan of this game. I've
played against Ben Wallace, I've played against like generational defenders
like I've played against ron Our Test Uh, guys that
are known for defense. And it's just it don't hit.
It's same, it just doesn't And and I don't understand
(07:04):
his narrative because it's got to be a narrative at
this point, it's not a factual thing. It has to
be a narrative. I don't see it. Give me your thoughts, though, you.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Hit it on the head, but I'm not gonna put
it all on Rudy. I think it's a hell of
a coaching adjustment from alone. Uh, you know, I love
seeing coaches make these type of adjustments during these type
of series. Uh down, oh two. But again, defend the champions.
You can never count out the champs. You know, the
heart of a champion, what a champion has been through
as far as adversity, next to being down this series,
(07:44):
being able to stick together, figure out, I find a
solution to these problems. Starts with Jamal Murray. I think
he's kind of figured it out. He's just he's a
tough shot maker, man. I mean, he hit a hell
of a couple of shots yesterday.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That shot, that shot that he hit right before halftime,
my good.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Not the bus, but I'm talking about the one. McDaniel's
played a great defense. He was like two stakes on
the shot clock. I mean, it's just he's a fun
player to watch. You know, he's electrifying. I'm sure pus
hours and hours on his craft. And again he struggled
his first two games, but then he figured it out.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I don't know if it was help or not.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I just feel like it was an adjustment getting used
to guys that really actually take pride of defense and
wanted every possession. So I'm not saying he has completely
figured it out again because we have three games left.
But uh, he's in a great rhythm, I'm sure, and
he's going he's feeling good at going back to Denver.
I want to see what a coach fan does. You know,
he's a great coach. I had him in New Orleans
offensive mindset. Uh, so I will don't see what he's
(08:37):
going to do adjustment wise. Carlkin Towns can't shoot five
for eighteen from the field. Goldbert can't just give you
eleven points, So I think you have to insert more
nas reed. You know, he didn't play a lot last
last game, last couple, I believe, and that's been cuzed
guys from day one. So kudos the Cubs for seeing
that long time ago. But again he has to play
(08:58):
because again, who else is going to score?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
To basketball?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
You know, Mike Conley gave him a solid lift as
far as the starting PG. You know, Edwards hit forty,
But after that, you know they're running McDaniels off the line,
you know, waiting on the young fella off the bench,
Alexander to get back to a good rhythm. You know,
they need to spark from him as well. So it's
gonna take a team effort. You know, Anthony Erways did
apologize for Game three, but but you know, like I said,
(09:20):
he came out Game four ded what he had to do,
but it wasn't enough as far as a team impact.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
And back to what coach because of saying about Rudy,
he doesn't have a defensive presidence out there. Uh, he's
not able to do what Nasrie does as far as
picking joker up causing you know, turnovers, like I said,
he hasn't.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
He looks really comfortable.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Uh, the Jokers, you know, boding the ship out of him,
shooting floater shots and he's getting everything he wants and
still being a great facilitating the quarterback on the court.
So uh, he's not causing any disruptive on either side
of the ball. And then also they made and like
I said, Melone did a hell of a job by
Corral and Anthony verwas at the top making him throw
the pocket pass, making Rudy go Bert turned into Draymond Green,
(10:02):
which we saw yesterday had five turnovers.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
So that's gonna be tough. Now if you give no.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Read that ball right there, he's a hell of it.
He's a way better play maker than go Bert. So
for me, it's not just offensively not being able to
block shouts or change things also offensively as well, because
because again if he's having to be the playmaker when
it's when it's setting picks with him, they're living with that,
you know what I mean, Like he's not aggressive enough,
he can't get to the rim, and if you know,
he's not shooting over eighty I think or eighty five
(10:27):
from the freeo line. So it's kind of a lose
lose for them to put the ball in his hands
in the middle of the court. And that's where again
kudos to coach Malone.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I mean, this is the problem with Defensive Player of
the Year being a regular season award because if you
look at the regular season numbers, I agree with you,
because they're not there in the playoffs because level of
competition rises and different things get exposed. But it is
a regular season award, and when you have to play
every team in the league, well, go go tell me, no.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I'm gonna say that they're not better than Winby. I mean,
his his numbers aren't, you know, better than the rookie
of the year. So it's like, wow, numbers, but it's
like he has a better team defensive mindset, like you know,
you got them dogs on the wings, you got a
leader in the pack like Andy Edwards, Like, yeah, your
team is going to be a better defensive team.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But it's individual war. So I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
No, you're right.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I mean, for me with it was a little bit
of like, go ahead, well I was saying.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
For me with Wemby, it was a little bit of
it took him a couple of months to get his
feet under him defensively in the league, and I just
sort of felt like, great, I think from here on out. Frankly,
I mean I can almost fill it out now that
I'll be voting for Wemby for the next however many
years for Defensive Player of the Year, but like the
beginning of the season counts too, So that's kind of
where I was on that. But I do feel a
(11:42):
little bit as a voter, it's always hard because you
can only vote on what they put in front of you,
and you're voting on the regular season, and that's what
you have to do, and yet I know what happens
to the playoffs. It's not like I'm not watching every season, right,
So it's it's just it's a hard thing, and I
get it. I get the frustration from other players because
when a guy is tested, you're not seeing it from
Rudy Gobert in the postseason, I get it, not once.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
And that's where it's just like, I don't and it
would be it will be. It's crazy. Yeah, it would
be more understandable if it was you know, maybe he
got one, you know, defensive player. We're talking, get it,
so that puts him in a category of the elite
of the elite.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And when I know and by the way, he is not,
he is not Hakm and we all know it, even
the people voting.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
So it's now becoming a narrative and it's not really factual,
like we keep awarding this guy for regular season and
and me and you can speak on us. When it
comes to regular season, most of the time, the good
teams are going through the motions. You just go through
the motions. You do the same thing every night, which
produces the wins. Cool playoff come. You have to become
(13:00):
a player everybody knows and I have yet to see it.
I haven't seen it. So why do we keep awarding
this guy for a bullshit ass regular season? I don't
I don't understand it.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I just feel it has to for me, it's a
team award because I say this, Kevin won Depens Player
the Year, but Kevin, it was me, per Tony Allen
Posey on the floor. I mean, Kevin was our anchor,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
He deserved it. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
But again, having a team around you that that prize
thatself on defense, your numbers look better.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Like I get it, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
But if number one defense this season.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Jaylor MC doesn't get considered he's one of the best
wing defenders in the league. He didn't even get considered
Anthony Edwards like he's a dog on the defensive as
always defense. I don't understand why this kid when not
even a kid, this is a grown ass man. Why
Rudy goverkeep getting read for being this great fucking defender
(14:04):
And I've never I've never seen his defense changing entire series.
I've never seen it one time. I've never seen it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I want to flip this back to Aaron Gordon because
you mentioned Cat his defense on KAT last night.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I thought made a big difference. Yes, so there are people.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
The ex factor and he always has been since they
were winning.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Like if he played, he goes, they go he can't shoot.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
I think he last week game he shot sixteenth nineteen
from the field, like it just yeah, you can't allow that.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Damny fishing like he's working last night, right and.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
He was three to four last game, you know. I
mean he's he's he's put the work in.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
But again, he can't have that type of impact on
the game and expect to win, especially when Yoaka's doing
this thing, Murry's getting hot, Like, I mean, you just
you have to shut one of those guys down. And
for me, I think he might be the IM not
gonna say.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
The easiest, but he will be the easiest out of
those three guys. Me. It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, I don't see something that happens before halftime have
an impact on a playoff game that often. But there
was an eight point swing in just the last few
seconds the of the second quarter that I felt the
Timberwolves did not recover from. It will be interesting to
see if that even carries over in terms of their
mental state and how they feel going into this game
(15:18):
of just like every time they think they feel they've
got Denver where they want them, you know, in these
last couple of games, Yokich has led them to some
sort of Houdini act, and then Murray chips in, and
then Gordon chips in, And that is what Denver did
to teams all like great, that is what Denver did
to teams all last postseason was you know, they're a
little deceptive sometimes and then when crunch time comes, they
(15:41):
just have so many ways to hurt you and are
so organized and so just coolly efficient, and just nobody is.
They's just unflappable. Nobody is losing their temper. So I'm
interested to see what happens there. I do want to
keep an eye on Jamal Murray's calf to see where
that ends up, because I do think a little rest
break helped them, and they're not going to have that
the rest of the way. But but we will see.
(16:01):
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(17:05):
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Speaker 2 (17:08):
Plus.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
We're going to move on to some other series here.
I have a feeling the Rudio Gobert conversation is going
to keep coming up.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But well, right there, let's talk a little nixt pacers.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
We've been talking about the minutes that the Knicks have
been playing for this entire playoff run, and it does
seem to be catching up with them. The Pacers obviously
the team to push them because the pace they play,
with the depth they have, do you guys think that
this is recoverable for New York because they do have
a little their own skalsle quirk is interesting. They have
(17:42):
to turn right around and play the next game, game five,
on Tuesday nights, so it's still at every other pace,
but it's at the garden, and you do get this
incredible energy left from playing an MSG, and the role
players play well and all that stuff, and they might
actually have to depend on a role player or two
with the with the minutes putting on these other guys.
They also Tips finally sat his guys down at the
end of game four, where he was just like, great,
(18:04):
this game is out of hand. So Josh Hart, who'd
been playing forty eight minutes a game, didn't have to
do that. These guys got a little bit less mileage
on their bodies at the end of game four. So
you've got Nick's crowd, You've got a little maybe a
little more energy for game five, and then you have
the extra day break in that series going into Game
six in Indiana. So it's just interesting the schedule could
(18:26):
help the Knicks a little here. Maybe I don't know,
or do you guys feel like no og annobie. It
looks like again for game five and Boog at some
point you might not have the horses.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
When it comes to a hamstring injury, one, usually that's
a sign of fatigue. Two that's not an injury that's
just easy to come back from. You can't rest two
three days and just come back on a hamstring. A
hamstring injury, a strain and cash. Those type injuries take weeks,
like it's a period of time where you just have
(18:58):
to sit and do nothing. So I just and you know,
hopefully he does come back, but even if he does,
I just don't see him coming back being the same
type of effective player that we you know, seen early
on in this series. And we spoke on this earlier
when it comes to the Knicks and TIBs and his
(19:20):
coaching style and the way he goes about you know,
his teams is history repeats itself. You know, we've seen
this time and time again where eventually his teams run
out of gas and it's now coming to the point
where he does have to depend on the bench, and
I think it can get a little tricky because you
(19:41):
don't want to lose your guys at the end of
the bench throughout a playoff series. And that's easy to
do once they feel like they're not, you know, ever
gonna play. Are really a part of what's going on.
So to expect, you know, anybody to kind of come
in and just, you know, have this burst advantagy, it's
just not really real listed. And on top of that,
(20:04):
I mean, Burks is a score, He's always been one.
But is that going to change a series for the Knicks.
Maybe maybe not. But it's more so going to the
style of coaching where it's relying on seven guys in
the entire playoffs. It's just it's just not a realistic thing.
(20:26):
That's it's just a lot not a formula of success
in my five guys guys.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
But it's been a little necessity.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I'm going to defend TIBs a little bit here in
that during the regular season he actually did not do
the wear these guys down thing. I have the number here.
There's no Nick ranked in the top ten in minutes
a game during the regular season, so they had a
bunch of injuries. You know, guys played a lot because
of the injuries, but it wasn't the sort of typical
what we criticized tips for I'm just gonna play you
(20:55):
no matter what and run guys into the ground on
individual minutes. However, in the playoffs has been running the
guys into the ground in individual minutes. But it's because
you don't have guys, right, I mean, Julius Randall And
it goes down the list from there, and I feel
like guys drop like flies every day. Mitchell's gone, Og
seems to be gone. I mean, there's just there's so
many guys where they don't have anymore, so you got
to play them the way they are. And Jalen Brunson
(21:16):
is obviously hurt. Again, here's another set of numbers for you.
And I'm curious though, like where this affects you, just
shooting wise and all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
As a point guard.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Over the two games in Indiana, our friend Brian Windhorse
had a great stat in the story he wrote of
the game. He said Brunson missed ten of his jumpers
short and that according to the tracking software they have,
he was jumping two and a half inches lower on
his shots than he did during the season. I thought
it was a great stat in Brian's story.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
What does that do to you?
Speaker 4 (21:48):
He's right on the head. I mean, that's fatigue.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
He's a jump shooter maker, jump shot maker and not
having your legs, not having their proper rest and being
able to obeit, having to make pretty much every play
with his ess and they're wearing his ass down, you know.
And and give kudos to to Rick Carlisle. He he's
doing a hell of the job.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
How hard was that though? To say, not hard at all?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
I mean college spaders bag, you know what I mean.
I think it's a really good coach. He's makes hell
of adjustments. And again like with him switching Nate Smith
on the Brunton, I mean, they're wearing him down. And
like I said, he probably you know, I mean, he's
he's waking up thinking about Brunston and obviously trying to
be the guy that slows him down and stops from
everybody seeing you know, him being compared to Jordan and
know Nick ever has done you know this and that.
But guys take pride of that, you know, seeing guys
(22:36):
have those type of you know, numbers pop up and
when you cried yourself on defense. I know a guy
like myself, I took those challenges. You know, when Jamie
Lynn came in going crazy, I wanted to be the
guy to stop him.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
So it seems like Nasmith's took that challenge. Uh.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And again fatigue plays a factor being coaching adjustments making factor.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And this patience team we've seen.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
They went down to Milwaukee and responded and then went down
to Nicks responding.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So, like I said, they got a great job in
the locker room.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Miles Turners playing well. I mean they're playing well as
a team, and I think last game, no one played
over twenty five minutes, so they made to rotate so
many guys here and there. Understand that Tim has played
Josh hard, you know x amount of game, ten straight
games in forty eight minutes. I mean, like you said,
I could say history peace itself and it's just impossible
to play. I mean, as much as the guy may
say he wants to play and he looks good, eventually,
(23:23):
over time they're in what game eight now eight nine
in the playoffs, so it's like it's catching up and
it's showing like that stat that he had with numbers
about Brunton jumping two inches shorter or whatever too. It's
whatever shorter, that's serious. And I was watching the game
live and every shot he took the first like six
or seven worth short yep.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well, Lismith too is just bigger, right, so putting him
on him And I'm curious, guys, I mean, we see
this over and over again. The strategy seems to be
they can't call everything right. They're not going to call
every single time that he bumps in or plays some
super physical plays brunts and super physical going down the court.
First of all, they're picking him up a foot from
the baseline on the other side, I mean, it is
(24:06):
clear him out, beat him up, make him every step right.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Once Dame got going, they did the same thing with
picking him full court ninety four feet and wearing him down,
you know what I mean, Like it was.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
They also have a rotation of guys to do it.
They're not depending on what you got to do it
bingo nice J mcconalds coming in and doing.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Yeah man in twenty minutes like in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
That's the difference. That's the difference. Jaynen Brunton is not
only having to score forty a game just for them
to have a chance to win it, he's having to
bring the ball up every single possession against a guy
guarding him full court. That's that's that's impossible for anybody,
that's anybody.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And yet I hear everything you guys are saying. I
see all the numbers you do. There's no extra bodies
in the next locker room that are going to pop out, right,
Will Street's not come? And yet do you feel Indiana
just has this series now?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
No? I still can't say that. No, I'm saying it's
I feel like Tibbs is making a job harder for
them to find success by sticking to this same formula.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
There's nowhere at this point. What are they supposed to do?
There's no one else? Bug Who are they putting in there?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Man? Alex Burtch is the hell of a player. I
think he helps. It shouldn't be to where he's playing
because they're in a blowout, like Alex burd should be
on the floor, like I think.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
He played some of the other games. I have to add,
I'm pretty sure I don't think enough.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
But I don't think they have enoughing we're seeing. It's
just didn't wear them down. I mean, I know they're
gonna have the energy when they go back to the Gardens.
I get that, but the PACER's going to have some
energy as well. I mean, this is a knockout game,
and they feel like they can get this one at
the Garden. They know they're done when they come back
to Indiana. So I mean that's their I'm sure that's
their mindset, and that's what I'm sure the message that
Rick is going to tell these guys, like just winning
(25:57):
one game, we win this game, they're done.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
They got it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
They got to try to win game five because, as
I said, there's there's a little bit of a rest
break before game six. So I just feel like if
New York pulls off this gritty Garden goes crazy, you know,
bonkers game five and they win and they have momentum,
and then it's a closeout game, and then there's you know,
the opportunity to have some rest and then close the
Pacers out in Indiana. I think New York has the
(26:23):
potential to do that. That's why I don't feel like,
oh man, this is Indiana series. Now there is a
window here for New York to win still, even with
the number of bodies they have, I just the Pacers have.
The Pacers should win. They're so much healthier. They had
fifty seven bench points in Game four. And we know
that role players don't play as well on the road,
but they're just so much deeper at this point, and
(26:44):
they should win the series with the way the personnel
is right now. Just strictly on that. Isaiah Hartenstein I
think hurt his shoulder in Game four. Also, I mean
there's just every guy on the next team is banged up.
But I still I don't know. New York is so
gritty and that building is it's been so electric.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I don't know. So I can't say for sure on
this series.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I don't know if you guys have a good feeling,
but I can't say it's going to go right now.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I do feel, I do feel with Og being you know, yeah,
probably unquestionable addition to the team right now, that slams
New York's chance of you know, winning this series. Oh
G's a big part. Like if he's on the floor,
I think they have a chance to pull it out
without him, It's going to be really tough. You think, damnit,
(27:28):
cheese gonna keep it up. No, you have twenty five.
I mean that's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
No, no, and he ran out of guess you can
see the magic start.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
To never twenty five in his life and that's and
that's my dog. He's never averaged twenty five in his life.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, come on, bro, all right, let's talk about the Celtics. Gentlemen.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
For John Ronda, you are up because the Celtics all year,
they've been doing this all year.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
We've seen it, right, we knew this was going to happen.
Coming into the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
They either win by a lot because they can be
so overwhelming, or they sometimes look like they're getting bored.
And I don't want to not give Cleveland credit because
they're They're a game. Cleveland a lot of ingredients, Right,
you got to give him credit. I'm sorry, you're getting
your credit. This isn't just the Celtics couldn't be bothered.
So Donovan Mitchell has shown again why he is a star.
(28:22):
I just I'm really interested to see what happens with him,
not just the summer, but over the course of the
next few years. I think that there's some good young
players on that Cavs team and the interior and all
the advantages they have. But the Celtics should handle this
series pretty easily, just if you look at the talent
disparity here. Even with Kris STAPs, porzingis hurt and sometimes
(28:44):
they don't look like they're focused.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I don't know what do you think that.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Is for Seon, it's easy to get complacent and you know,
I'm gonna say, overlook your opponent. But at the same time,
it feel like you do have it on cruise control,
being able to hit the button, turn it on and off.
But same time, you're giving teams confidence and when you
do that, you know you.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Could be in a fight for a long time.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Give even credit though, you know JB's done a hell
of a job making these adjustments. Star players stepped up,
role player stepped up for Cleveland Game two. So you know,
I'm not going to put it all on the Celtics,
just them overlooking or not respecting their opponent. They came out,
you know, it's a mismake league. They shot pulling from
the three and that's what they.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Rely on themselves.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And then they did they shot well, so but like
I said, it's a missmake league. You know, they did
shoot at thirty five threes and I think game two
and lost. You know, I think eight for thirty five,
but if they made six more threes, it might be
a game, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So it's just it just depends.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
And defensively they may be taking a step back in
game two, but again we saw what they how they
responded on the road Game three in Cleveland, so I
didn't expect to sweep. You know, even after game one lost,
I didn't expect a swep from Cleveland. You know, those
young guys are hungry, theydn't want to fight, and with
a leader in Donny Bravo, Uh, he showed up and
stepped out and showed out to in game two.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
So uh, it might be for one.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
But at the end of the day that I still
think Cleveland get another game. And if that happens, I
don't think it is not to the Celtics. I mean,
the year we won a championship, we played twenty six
games to win and we went seven with we went
seven with Atlanta, I think seven.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
With no I was on so many airplanes for you guys.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I was like, really, you're going to make us travel
to this other city just so you can win there,
just win it home.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
But yeah, we couldn't win on the road our first
couple series.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
So I said, we went seven both series and were
still the winning So I think I see a lot
of similarities and this team as well. I don't think,
you know, people like expecting them the sweet for all,
even though they said they're going to they're the favors
to come out of the East. I mean, these guys did
make the playoffs. They're well coached. Every team in the
East and you have to you have to earn it.
That's what it's about.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
So you hear the reports out of Cleveland. JB is
fighting for his job. So it'll be interesting to see
if they do get another game here.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
You also job as a coach.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
God damn, it is league right now, I know it.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, ask Frank Vocal about the money he got paid.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I mean, it's just in darvin Ham by the way, Like,
I mean, it's just it's it's crazy. We'll get to
the Sun's coaching later, but I just it is kind
of unbelievable. I mean, Boggie, it's kind of crazy when
you look at the Celtics that they have made the
Eastern Conference, finals five of the last seven years. That's crazy, right,
That's like the Detroit Pistons when they had their run
(31:26):
making the Eastern Conference finals over and over. Like, I
just think we don't quite give that enough credit because
we talk about the fact that they haven't broken through
the one the title so often, and look, of those
five out of seven years, only one time did the
advance to the finals. When they did, they were up
to one and then just looks like they kind of
let go of the rope. Golden State won a series
that frankly, the Celtics should have been in more. But
(31:50):
Jason Tatum said something interesting to me after Game two.
He said, I know, he said some version of like,
I know, if we're not perfect, everyone gets on us.
But is that kind of how it feels if you're
the Celtics right now that like you better win the
finals otherwise it's not good.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Let me speak to that real quick. Yeah, because I
mean it is what it is. Nobody remembers number two.
We don't hang conference banners, so it's like that's part
of it. I'm not going to name any other organizations.
But at the same time, like I said, it is
a Celtics organization, and they only hang title banners. That's
part of it. It comes with it. He's been there
(32:24):
for a while. He understands that. So it's no point
of saying, you know the thing that you said, and
you're entitled to have an opin you want to say.
But at the same time, this is what it is
as a c like win or go home.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Nobody remembers number two. He said it best. I have
nothing to say. See, we don't give conference finals like
there you go. Jon.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I want to translate that for anybody watching right now,
is that Rajehn is a a very good guy and
be one a title with the Lakers. So he is
not gonna say anything negative about that organization because he
is a good person. And yet they hung a banner
for a season mid season tournament and I know exactly
Oh they did, Oh they did.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I mean it's the first ever. I mean, it's the
first ever.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You see that.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
So he's down there, We're not.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
This is what it is.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, it would be we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Already hear about Circle Dallas guys, because they have put
their foot in on this series and and you know, look,
we're going to talk about Kyrie. We're going to talk
about Luca. Nothing runs without them. Uh but PJ. Washington,
Daniel Gafford, Lively, they have elevated the MAVs on both ends. PJ. Washington,
(33:56):
by the way, I'm I'm sorry. I know if you're
okay See, you're giving a lot of defensive attention to
Luca and Kyrie, but you're leaving PJ. Washington to do
what he's doing and book. How dangerous is that with
the trio of these big men.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
When they made this trade at the deadline, I thought
it was the perfect trade. I thought PJ. Washington was
perfect mixture players would go with Kyrie and Luca obviously
a Kentucky guy, so I'm a bit biased, but I
also know what the kid can do. But this is
no knock to Dallas. I think they're doing everything they're
(34:33):
supposed to do. I think the new additions are stepping up,
playing the role, playing, you know, beyond expectations. Kudos to them,
But for me, it's about okay See and their big
man depth, the big man experiencing depth. It's just not there,
and it's showing when it comes to Washington, Gadford and Lively. Lively,
(34:55):
the youngest side of the group. But even he's you know,
producing at a high rate. Great, Yeah, I just I
think that's a lot of pressure for the young kid
and okay Chet, I think it's a lot of pressure
for him to have to you know, battle with these
three guys on throughout the series. And also for the
young kid Jalen Wims, they don't have the experience. They
(35:16):
don't Yeah, the other Jalen Wims, they don't have the experience,
they don't have the boat. The veteran presence isn't there,
and it's not really you know, a big on that
bench that they can go to and get advice. So
I think it's starting to show Dallas Biggs are having
their way, and I think that's also you know helping them,
(35:38):
you know, control this series. The way they are so
far outside of Luke and Kyrie playing out of their minds.
I think this is the difference in the series. Just
the big man activity Chat has a lot of pressure
on him. He's still learning, he's still young. I think
he's gonna have an incredible career. I think he's gonna
have a great career, but to expect him to dominate
(36:01):
these matchups, but this really been his first year in
the league is just not realistic. So I think that's
the difference in this series so far. I mean, kudos
to Washington. I mean like this is the perfect fit
for him.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
He came out of a toxic situation and he's somewhere
where he's appreciated along with Kyrie. You know, we've seen
his happiness the way he's been very vocal in the
press conferences. You see him, you know, on the social media,
laughing and shooting out the practice. You know, just the
energy and the chemistry that Jason Kidd has built in
the organization. Shout out some nego as well. But they're
(36:36):
just their happy family, you know. And obviously when when
you're winning, things are great, everyone's smiling. But even through
adversity in the first round with Dallas, you know they'll
be able to stick with it and just give those
guys credit.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Like I said, it starts at the top.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
With Jake Kidd, and I feel like they've given those
young guys life and energy, and they've those young guys
they're big in particular, i'malking about he's giving them energy
and it's a different.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Type of coverage that they've had to.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Okay, he's Biggs having to change this three versus last
year versus the Valentunas and different type of pigs against
New Orla Pelicans. Now they're facing Luca and pick and roll,
Kyrie and pick and roll versus trying to keep a
big but you know, from rotating behind them, all eyes
of presents on these two guys, these two dominant scoring guards,
and that losing of their man with off his rebounds.
(37:17):
They're letting their roller get behind them. So it's just
a lot of different coverages that they're not used to
accustomed to with this age, this lack of experience early
on in this playoffs. So I think things what we're seeing,
but again they'll go back home and make an adjustment
and look forward to seeing what's going to happen next.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, I'm in this series clearly not over by any
long shot either, and there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
To play out here. But we do see the youth.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
We talked about it all going into this playoffs, so
like at some point you pay for the fact that
you haven't been there before. That's just the way the
NBA works. Like it's it's a cliche, because it's true.
The guys with experience know what to do in those
key moments and side. We talked all season about the
fact that the Thunder as great as they've been played
as they were playing and obviously number one seed, the
fact that they got that at the end of the
(37:59):
year was amazing. But they don't have the size some
of these other teams in the Western Conference have. And
chet is tall, but he's not beefy, right, and that
matters when you're talking about the stuff. You're talking about
Boog and then I don't think you can have this
conversation without talking about the way Kyrie Irving has elevated
his defensive game. And we knew he had it in him.
I covered him in Cleveland and he played very sharp
(38:22):
team defense in Cleveland. It's not like he doesn't know
how to be a dog out on the court, but circumstances,
obviously had a difficult few years, was not contributing on
that end the way you would want him to in Boston,
in Brooklyn, and then you look at what Jay Kidd
has brought out of him in Dallas and the comfort
level those two have with each other. I mean, do
(38:43):
you know what it's like to be a guard who
can defend that way? I want to give you another
stat here, when defended by Kyrie, Irving opponents are shooting
eleven percentage points worse than expected. That ranks fifth among
any players playing any real time in the playoffs. Here,
eleven percentage points worse than expected when defended by Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
And one thing that you.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Know they mentioned last night in the press conferences or
the other day in the press conferences, was that he's
so handsy, right, and those great hands that we see
with the finishes around the rim, the steals that he's getting.
He's averaging nearly four deflections a game though that the
impact is so huge it's almost even hard to quantify.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Right, absolutely, I mean he's one of the greatest players
we've ever seen played the game.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
I mean we all be in all of this offensive
skill set.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
But again, if he wants to click a button to
play defense, which we've seen that he's doing, you know,
he's taking pride in his defense. Obviously, him and a
little bit as different as deficiency on the guard level
on the defensive side of what they say, so they say,
but they both taken pride, like I said, Luke, and
last series against the Clippers. In this series and Kyrie
in this entire playoffs. But again when giving a challenge
(39:53):
the guys magidude how great he is. He's accepting it
and excelling in his role.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
I don't think we're using a career turn when where
we're you know, while we're speaking on Kyrie, I think
I think the main thing that Kyrie has shown throughout
this playoff is leadership and championship leadership. You know, that's
not really a term that's attached to Kyrie's name because it's.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
So much dirt, and it should be.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
This is championship leadership. He's showing it on both sides
of the ball. He's doing it through his play, it's
not necessarily vocal, and he's also doing it within his role.
He's allowing with Luca to be Luca and then at
the same time he's being Kyrie on both ends of
the ball. So I just want to, you know, give
him Miss Flowers for showing the leadership, because you know,
(40:41):
they're so quick to throw dirt on this kid's name.
I'm happy for him to be in this happy place.
We see him smiling, we see him you know, relax.
We get to see the Kyrie that we were used
to seeing and It's almost like, you know, being in
a relationship, if if you want the best and your relationship,
you got a cater to your girl. And I think
(41:02):
the Dallas Mavericks a catering to Kyrie and making sure
he's happy and in a good place. And with that
being I return for them, right exactly, if you want
the best out of your girl, you got to give
it a knife. Tell me there you go, it's a
happy year.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Well look the respect between him and Jay Kid. You know,
he went to Jason Kidds Hall of Fame induction just
because he was such a big Jason Kidd fan. Right,
they had a relationship. It's not like they have a relationship,
but he had never played for him at that point.
It was an unexpected sighting at Ja Kid's Hall of
Fame induction was just sort of like, oh, Kyrie's here,
and it was just because of the amount of respect
and love that he had for j Kid. So I
(41:44):
just think that tells you what's going on there. And
Jason from the day Kyrie walked in there, has had
that kind of respect for Kyrie, which, as you point out,
not everyone around the league has had. And so the
fact that they he knew what it would take to
get the best out of him and vice versa.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
I think has been exceptional.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
And when you are knocking down an opponent's shooting percentage
by more than ten percent, that is it's impressive.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That is that is going to make a difference.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
So sing he showed up.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
To my fiance's fashion fashion show, Kyrie did, and we
don't have a great relationship, So I just kind of
what you said. It's a great human being, fair players
to watch. I encourage Pierre to watch him all the time,
like watching really yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
And look, Jason, I think, by the way, is the
other factor we haven't talked about as much when I'm
talking about this series.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Jason is a guy who has been through all the wars.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
He's done everything from the spill Coke to everything he
did as a player, like all the stuff, everything in
Dallas and Dirk, all the all the years. It makes
a difference when you're in these moments and you know,
obviously Matt Mark Dagno is Coach of the Year and
has done an incredible job there. But it makes a
difference when you have coaches that have been through a
(43:00):
lot and Michael Malone we talked about it earlier in
this show. He made some great adjustments going into this
weekend in Minnesota, and Michael Malone has been very vocal
about the fact that there were at least two inflection
points where management in Denver ownership could have fired him,
and they stuck with him, and they knew that he
was a good coach who maybe had a down year,
(43:21):
who had bad injuries or had other things going on,
and they stuck with him. And it makes a difference.
And here we see again another franchise rotating the door. Well,
I'm sorry, it feels dumbed to have to say that,
like smart coaching and consistency make a difference, but it
doesn't seem to be the standard in this league. I
just told you that all of the reporting out of
(43:43):
Cleveland is that JB is fighting for his job there
and we had the Sons just hire Mike Budenholzer, and
I wanted to get your guys take on it, especially
you Boogie. You played for him in Milwaukee at five year,
fifty five year, fifty million dollar plus deal and replacing
and Vogel, they won titles. I think back to back
Frank one and twenty and Bud one in twenty one,
(44:06):
and it's just okay, here's the revolving door. What do
you think on this hiring and for getting the job book.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Well, my first thought on this is it's it's mady
ironic how players are held to theirs, to these standards
when it comes to you know, character flaws and you
know what type of person they are on and off
the court, and you know those things are held against them.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I'm not going as well to say it.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
No, I don't have to say anything. I'd rather people
read between the lines. But also when it comes to
the signs, I feel like they're putting the band aid
on a gunshot. No paroxide. They an't even clean the
fucking one. It's no peroxide, no neilspon, no rubbing alcohol.
(44:58):
They just slapped the bad on there and said it
get better. This this doesn't really move to there. And
at the same time, we're still in this this era
of where we're just recycling the same coaches like Frank
Vogel won the championship in twenty twenty, right, Bud won
(45:21):
a championship twenty twenty one. What's the fucking difference. I
don't understand, Like how this fix fixes your problems as
a franchise, as a team.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Or even that's the problem to me, you can't you
can't particularly blame the coach if you if you're the
higher you bringing a coach a championship call of coach,
and then you fire a year later, Like what sense
does that make? I feel like that's a player fire.
But what I'm confused about is like before you hired
this guy, you don't talk to the players, don't. I
(45:54):
don't get why you would try to give make him
a scapegoat when it's like you look at the problem,
but actually the players on the court, like some they
have to be held accountable at some point. You can't
hire a coach and when you're expect him to win
a championship, and on top of that, seeing what the
team that they got swept by is doing to the
defending champs right now. So it's like I thought they
would give them a little bit more grace as far
(46:15):
as like okay, cool, it's not just look like this
team is legit, Like they would have lost fingers, lost
them bidgets in the conference finals, like regards, they would
have lost them regardless because they have dogs on the perimeter.
That want that smoke. Yeah, they don't like I don't.
I don't get why said I disagree with that.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I'm upset.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
I don't have any problem, but Mike, it's not about him.
It's about they said, the organization and how they just
fired Frank and now they're expecting Mike to come and
do something different if they don't change their roster, Like
it has to be a roster change, and that's in
general manager. Yeah, I mean the best player off the bench,
and my dog is Eric Gordon come off the bench,
(46:56):
Like you can't expect him to give you twenty five
or you know he's not the six six man? Can
they player the year anymore? Like he's not the same
caliber player. He's old, a lot older now. So it's like,
that's what you're offering, that's what the tools you're giving
me to play with.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
You want me to go out here and win.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Book? Do you see?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I mean you know I said you were up close
in that locker room with Bud and his coaching style,
even if just talking x's and o's, Like, do you
see him being able to do anything differently or what
do you see him unlocking something we don't see? I
mean I assume they're going to get a point gird,
I assume they're going to get hold there.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I don't think it's about his coaching style. I think
it's more so about his personality and the personalities he
wants to mess with. When it comes to coaching, it's
not just about x's and o's. It's about managing egos.
It's about managing different personalities, and as a coach, you
can't you can't shortcut it by saying, oh, well, I
just don't like this personality, so I don't want to
(47:50):
coach like, well, that's a disaster waiting to happen. And
that's part of the reason PJ. Tucker didn't go back
to Milwaukee after winning the championship because he didn't like PJ,
which is fucking mind blown.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So everyone likes PJS.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Right, So my thing is it's like, it's like I said,
I just don't understand this recycling door. You know, coach
goes here and then he's there for two years, then
he's over to another team for another two years. And
what happened the teams creating chemistry, the reason that that
Denver is as good as they are, they've been together
(48:27):
for years the same coach, the same core years. They
went through losses, they went through wins, They've been through
ups and downs together. That's how you figure out yourself
as a team. This recycling door of coaches for you know,
two years here, a year here, you'll never find success
that way. Trying to trying to find a coach that's
gonna win a championship in one year. That's a hard
(48:49):
thing to do for any I don't care who.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Even with the roster they had though, Like it's not
even you got guys that don't sput a defense like
it from anybody.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Man, what are we doing? James Jones he gets to
hide in the shadows after putting together this bullshit ass
roster like he's not it's Frank Vogel's fault. But James
Jones puts this bullshit ass roster together with no point guard.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
But I don't think it's James Jones fault either, I
really don't. I don't think it's either one of their fault.
I think you had a new owner who came in
who has every new I mean again so that before
to be a great owner in this league. But they
do it every time. It's like it's like clockwork.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
It's like one game is he not fire?
Speaker 3 (49:36):
They win one game, they lose for one is you know?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I mean like yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
But you have a new owner who came in he
knew better than everybody, just like they always do. It's
it's it's work. Makes a huge trade for KD makes
the other trade for badly Beale. I don't think that's
James Jones fault. That was a directive from above. And
then I have to assume this was too. And and again,
the quick trigger and the organizations that behave this way
are actually causing the coaches who do play for the
(50:05):
right organization that guys like the Nuggets coach. You know,
obviously Dallas, they're being patient all that stuff. Jay Kidd
just got a contract extension that he can directly. I
hope he sends a thank you note to Lebron James,
because it is the threat of the Lakers wanting to
take him away that got him that coaching extension in Dallas.
And by the way, obviously because he deserved it. I'm
not saying that, but the timing of it was very specific, right,
(50:29):
and tylu is going to get the same extension, by
the way, and he deserves it also, and he was
due for one, but I'm sorry. You can thank the
Lakers for the size of the number that is going
to come across there, right right.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Agree, Tom is all about life, It's all about time.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
You can catch all episodes of bully Bombed Trackings Network,
all the Smoke Productions YouTube channel. Please rate and review
us wherever you get your podcast. We need those five
star reviews. We will catch you next week.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
We're out, babe.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Mhm.
Welcome to Bullyball, presented by DraftKings. I am Rachel Nichols.
That always is mister DeMarcus Cousins still in Taiwan, and
you can tell because he has no plant and that
makes me very sad.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Fortunately we have Region Rondo with us again.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Who is a beautiful You're giving us a beautiful tour
of your house. Basically every episode we get a different view.
It's a nice crib. Man.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm impressed, is all I gotta say.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Appreciate it, Thank you, Rachel.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
But you're gonna step it up over there.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, I'm trying, man, I'm trying. I think don't owe
me a little money anyway, But we'll talk about that
another time. What you say, I think you a little
bridge from my last Blue Ery game. I could be wrong.
I'm gonna check my notes. Years I was your teammate. Man,
don't matter.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I was gonna say, Man, you owe me.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I've never pity your book. That's not true. You.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I think I got a little section of the house
over here with your name on. Actually, that's cool and
we can settle with that.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Then. I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
You donated, that's why the rooms are so nice.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
But years I was cud.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
It was like, you dog, you're sweet as okay.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And no one of you is in a palatial estate
and the other one has a giant door behind him.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You know whatever, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
That door from, Uh, that's a special wood. So don't
get it twisted, all right, all right, all right, I'm
gonna let you know where it was shipped from. Yeah.
Do That's what I looked like. Yeah whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I was going to make this an interior decorating podcast,
but instead let's talk about some NBA.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We gotta talk the best series of this round Denver, Minnesota.
After dropping the two first games at home, a lot
of people just bearing them. After those couple of games,
the Nuggets came back even the series. This was a
crazy weekend in Minnesota, and look, I know what's going
to happen here in Denver is not out of the woods.
Only five teams in the history of the NBA have
(02:23):
ever gone down two at home and then come back
to win a best of seven, so the mountain is
very steep still for them. Minnesota obviously exceptional and Edwards
again another forty point plus game, so they are still
super dangerous. But it does feel like the Nuggets took
something back in this series that they figured something else
out Jamal Murray. They had a few days break. Every
(02:46):
series has a little bit of a break at some point,
and this was where the Minnesota Denver one was right
before they went into Minnesota. So I think Jamal Murray
looked healthier, just looked better. And obviously Aaron Gordon made
a huge impact on both of them games, but particularly
in Game four, I thought Michael Malone had some great
strategy there. Took Aaron Gordon a bit out of the
(03:06):
dunker spot, made Gober run around a bit more on
the perimeter. But overall to the feel of this team, Boogie,
it just felt like a team that knew what it
had to do in those big moments in Minnesota, man
just got overwhelmed a few times.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Right, Absolutely, I think we're seeing the difference between a
championship veteran team and a young team that's trying to
figure it out. Obviously, Minnesota found some success early on
in the series. I'm not going to take away the
fact that I think they're a great team, which I
still think there are, But on the flip side of things,
(03:44):
when it comes to Denver, they show They've shown that
they have another level that they can go to, and
you know, that's what we've seen in the last two
games from this series. So with that being said, obviously
coach Malone has made some adjustments. You said, when it
comes to Aaron Gordon moving him around the floor, I
(04:05):
don't I don't like to to be the dead horse,
but when it comes to a three time defensive Player
of the Year that I'm gonna need a little more.
I'm gonna need a little more on the defensive end,
a whole lot more. Excuse me, excuse me, Yeah, four
(04:28):
time defensive Player of the Year. You look at the
defensive numbers, is you know, it's one point three blocks
a game. And then I looked at the other side
and I look at the Who's a guy who isn't
even considered defensive a defensive player, but he's averaging about
one point eight blocks a game, almost two steals a game.
So I'm just not really understanding the narrative or the
(04:51):
impact that everybody is seeing from this so called, you know,
generational defender. So obviously I feel like it needs to
be it needs to be more from that from that end,
on the on the Minnesota side. But at the end
of the day, this isn't you know, the reigning champs.
They've been here before, they've seen they They're a well
(05:13):
seasoned team. They've been through a lot of adversity. They've
been on the losing side of things, they've been on
the winning side of things, so they've they've seen it
all when it comes to being at this stage, and
we're now seeing a young team that's figuring it out
and they're now starting to hit their adversity so or
you could say growing pain. So I think that's the
difference in the series. Obviously, Jamal Murray's stepping up and
(05:37):
playing at the level that we're customed to seeing at
this time of year from him. That helps Denver tremendously.
Aaron Gordon stepping up, playing the way he played in
the last game, and you know that's the results of
those guys stepping up. And on the other side of things,
you're gonna need more than just Anthony Evers scoring forty
points in the game. He's gonna need more production from
(05:59):
the guys around him. Cat didn't have the greatest shooting night.
We're gonna need more production from him. We in order
for them to find success in this series. Cat's gonna
have to average at least eighteen to twenty two a
game per night. So it's definitely gonna need on the Minnesota.
Minnesota side of things, they're definitely gonna have to step
(06:20):
up from a production standpoint. Obviously, Kat offensively, the generational
defender definitely has to step up. And you know, I mean,
I don't he I don't see it. I don't see it.
(06:40):
I'm sorry, like, and this is no hate, this is
no knock, Like I'm a fan of this game. I've
played against Ben Wallace, I've played against like generational defenders
like I've played against ron Our Test Uh, guys that
are known for defense. And it's just it don't hit.
It's same, it just doesn't And and I don't understand
(07:04):
his narrative because it's got to be a narrative at
this point, it's not a factual thing. It has to
be a narrative. I don't see it. Give me your thoughts, though, you.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Hit it on the head, but I'm not gonna put
it all on Rudy. I think it's a hell of
a coaching adjustment from alone. Uh, you know, I love
seeing coaches make these type of adjustments during these type
of series. Uh down, oh two. But again, defend the champions.
You can never count out the champs. You know, the
heart of a champion, what a champion has been through
as far as adversity, next to being down this series,
(07:44):
being able to stick together, figure out, I find a
solution to these problems. Starts with Jamal Murray. I think
he's kind of figured it out. He's just he's a
tough shot maker, man. I mean, he hit a hell
of a couple of shots yesterday.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That shot, that shot that he hit right before halftime,
my good.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Not the bus, but I'm talking about the one. McDaniel's
played a great defense. He was like two stakes on
the shot clock. I mean, it's just he's a fun
player to watch. You know, he's electrifying. I'm sure pus
hours and hours on his craft. And again he struggled
his first two games, but then he figured it out.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I don't know if it was help or not.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I just feel like it was an adjustment getting used
to guys that really actually take pride of defense and
wanted every possession. So I'm not saying he has completely
figured it out again because we have three games left.
But uh, he's in a great rhythm, I'm sure, and
he's going he's feeling good at going back to Denver.
I want to see what a coach fan does. You know,
he's a great coach. I had him in New Orleans
offensive mindset. Uh, so I will don't see what he's
(08:37):
going to do adjustment wise. Carlkin Towns can't shoot five
for eighteen from the field. Goldbert can't just give you
eleven points, So I think you have to insert more
nas reed. You know, he didn't play a lot last
last game, last couple, I believe, and that's been cuzed
guys from day one. So kudos the Cubs for seeing
that long time ago. But again he has to play
(08:58):
because again, who else is going to score?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
To basketball?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
You know, Mike Conley gave him a solid lift as
far as the starting PG. You know, Edwards hit forty,
But after that, you know they're running McDaniels off the line,
you know, waiting on the young fella off the bench,
Alexander to get back to a good rhythm. You know,
they need to spark from him as well. So it's
gonna take a team effort. You know, Anthony Erways did
apologize for Game three, but but you know, like I said,
(09:20):
he came out Game four ded what he had to do,
but it wasn't enough as far as a team impact.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
And back to what coach because of saying about Rudy,
he doesn't have a defensive presidence out there. Uh, he's
not able to do what Nasrie does as far as
picking joker up causing you know, turnovers, like I said,
he hasn't.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
He looks really comfortable.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Uh, the Jokers, you know, boding the ship out of him,
shooting floater shots and he's getting everything he wants and
still being a great facilitating the quarterback on the court.
So uh, he's not causing any disruptive on either side
of the ball. And then also they made and like
I said, Melone did a hell of a job by
Corral and Anthony verwas at the top making him throw
the pocket pass, making Rudy go Bert turned into Draymond Green,
(10:02):
which we saw yesterday had five turnovers.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
So that's gonna be tough. Now if you give no.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Read that ball right there, he's a hell of it.
He's a way better play maker than go Bert. So
for me, it's not just offensively not being able to
block shouts or change things also offensively as well, because
because again if he's having to be the playmaker when
it's when it's setting picks with him, they're living with that,
you know what I mean, Like he's not aggressive enough,
he can't get to the rim, and if you know,
he's not shooting over eighty I think or eighty five
(10:27):
from the freeo line. So it's kind of a lose
lose for them to put the ball in his hands
in the middle of the court. And that's where again
kudos to coach Malone.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I mean, this is the problem with Defensive Player of
the Year being a regular season award because if you
look at the regular season numbers, I agree with you,
because they're not there in the playoffs because level of
competition rises and different things get exposed. But it is
a regular season award, and when you have to play
every team in the league, well, go go tell me, no.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I'm gonna say that they're not better than Winby. I mean,
his his numbers aren't, you know, better than the rookie
of the year. So it's like, wow, numbers, but it's
like he has a better team defensive mindset, like you know,
you got them dogs on the wings, you got a
leader in the pack like Andy Edwards, Like, yeah, your
team is going to be a better defensive team.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But it's individual war. So I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
No, you're right.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I mean, for me with it was a little bit
of like, go ahead, well I was saying.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
For me with Wemby, it was a little bit of
it took him a couple of months to get his
feet under him defensively in the league, and I just
sort of felt like, great, I think from here on out. Frankly,
I mean I can almost fill it out now that
I'll be voting for Wemby for the next however many
years for Defensive Player of the Year, but like the
beginning of the season counts too, So that's kind of
where I was on that. But I do feel a
(11:42):
little bit as a voter, it's always hard because you
can only vote on what they put in front of you,
and you're voting on the regular season, and that's what
you have to do, and yet I know what happens
to the playoffs. It's not like I'm not watching every season, right,
So it's it's just it's a hard thing, and I
get it. I get the frustration from other players because
when a guy is tested, you're not seeing it from
Rudy Gobert in the postseason, I get it, not once.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
And that's where it's just like, I don't and it
would be it will be. It's crazy. Yeah, it would
be more understandable if it was you know, maybe he
got one, you know, defensive player. We're talking, get it,
so that puts him in a category of the elite
of the elite.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And when I know and by the way, he is not,
he is not Hakm and we all know it, even
the people voting.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
So it's now becoming a narrative and it's not really factual,
like we keep awarding this guy for regular season and
and me and you can speak on us. When it
comes to regular season, most of the time, the good
teams are going through the motions. You just go through
the motions. You do the same thing every night, which
produces the wins. Cool playoff come. You have to become
(13:00):
a player everybody knows and I have yet to see it.
I haven't seen it. So why do we keep awarding
this guy for a bullshit ass regular season? I don't
I don't understand it.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I just feel it has to for me, it's a
team award because I say this, Kevin won Depens Player
the Year, but Kevin, it was me, per Tony Allen
Posey on the floor. I mean, Kevin was our anchor,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
He deserved it. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
But again, having a team around you that that prize
thatself on defense, your numbers look better.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Like I get it, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
But if number one defense this season.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Jaylor MC doesn't get considered he's one of the best
wing defenders in the league. He didn't even get considered
Anthony Edwards like he's a dog on the defensive as
always defense. I don't understand why this kid when not
even a kid, this is a grown ass man. Why
Rudy goverkeep getting read for being this great fucking defender
(14:04):
And I've never I've never seen his defense changing entire series.
I've never seen it one time. I've never seen it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I want to flip this back to Aaron Gordon because
you mentioned Cat his defense on KAT last night.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I thought made a big difference. Yes, so there are people.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
The ex factor and he always has been since they
were winning.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Like if he played, he goes, they go he can't shoot.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
I think he last week game he shot sixteenth nineteen
from the field, like it just yeah, you can't allow that.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Damny fishing like he's working last night, right and.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
He was three to four last game, you know. I
mean he's he's he's put the work in.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
But again, he can't have that type of impact on
the game and expect to win, especially when Yoaka's doing
this thing, Murry's getting hot, Like, I mean, you just
you have to shut one of those guys down. And
for me, I think he might be the IM not
gonna say.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
The easiest, but he will be the easiest out of
those three guys. Me. It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, I don't see something that happens before halftime have
an impact on a playoff game that often. But there
was an eight point swing in just the last few
seconds the of the second quarter that I felt the
Timberwolves did not recover from. It will be interesting to
see if that even carries over in terms of their
mental state and how they feel going into this game
(15:18):
of just like every time they think they feel they've
got Denver where they want them, you know, in these
last couple of games, Yokich has led them to some
sort of Houdini act, and then Murray chips in, and
then Gordon chips in, And that is what Denver did
to teams all like great, that is what Denver did
to teams all last postseason was you know, they're a
little deceptive sometimes and then when crunch time comes, they
(15:41):
just have so many ways to hurt you and are
so organized and so just coolly efficient, and just nobody is.
They's just unflappable. Nobody is losing their temper. So I'm
interested to see what happens there. I do want to
keep an eye on Jamal Murray's calf to see where
that ends up, because I do think a little rest
break helped them, and they're not going to have that
the rest of the way. But but we will see.
(16:01):
Have you ever wondered if chet Holmgren might be a
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(16:23):
you gotta listen to six Trophies. Every week, Shay and
Jason serve up the biggest moments from around the NBA
with their patented nix of joy banter pop culture side quests.
They also hand out six pop culture themed trophies for
six basketball related activities, stuff like the Denzel Washington and
Training Day Trophy that's given out to a player or
(16:44):
team having the best week around the NBA, or the
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(17:05):
or you can listen ad free by joining Wondery.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Plus.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
We're going to move on to some other series here.
I have a feeling the Rudio Gobert conversation is going
to keep coming up.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But well, right there, let's talk a little nixt pacers.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
We've been talking about the minutes that the Knicks have
been playing for this entire playoff run, and it does
seem to be catching up with them. The Pacers obviously
the team to push them because the pace they play,
with the depth they have, do you guys think that
this is recoverable for New York because they do have
a little their own skalsle quirk is interesting. They have
(17:42):
to turn right around and play the next game, game five,
on Tuesday nights, so it's still at every other pace,
but it's at the garden, and you do get this
incredible energy left from playing an MSG, and the role
players play well and all that stuff, and they might
actually have to depend on a role player or two
with the with the minutes putting on these other guys.
They also Tips finally sat his guys down at the
end of game four, where he was just like, great,
(18:04):
this game is out of hand. So Josh Hart, who'd
been playing forty eight minutes a game, didn't have to
do that. These guys got a little bit less mileage
on their bodies at the end of game four. So
you've got Nick's crowd, You've got a little maybe a
little more energy for game five, and then you have
the extra day break in that series going into Game
six in Indiana. So it's just interesting the schedule could
(18:26):
help the Knicks a little here. Maybe I don't know,
or do you guys feel like no og annobie. It
looks like again for game five and Boog at some
point you might not have the horses.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
When it comes to a hamstring injury, one, usually that's
a sign of fatigue. Two that's not an injury that's
just easy to come back from. You can't rest two
three days and just come back on a hamstring. A
hamstring injury, a strain and cash. Those type injuries take weeks,
like it's a period of time where you just have
(18:58):
to sit and do nothing. So I just and you know,
hopefully he does come back, but even if he does,
I just don't see him coming back being the same
type of effective player that we you know, seen early
on in this series. And we spoke on this earlier
when it comes to the Knicks and TIBs and his
(19:20):
coaching style and the way he goes about you know,
his teams is history repeats itself. You know, we've seen
this time and time again where eventually his teams run
out of gas and it's now coming to the point
where he does have to depend on the bench, and
I think it can get a little tricky because you
(19:41):
don't want to lose your guys at the end of
the bench throughout a playoff series. And that's easy to
do once they feel like they're not, you know, ever
gonna play. Are really a part of what's going on.
So to expect, you know, anybody to kind of come
in and just, you know, have this burst advantagy, it's
just not really real listed. And on top of that,
(20:04):
I mean, Burks is a score, He's always been one.
But is that going to change a series for the Knicks.
Maybe maybe not. But it's more so going to the
style of coaching where it's relying on seven guys in
the entire playoffs. It's just it's just not a realistic thing.
(20:26):
That's it's just a lot not a formula of success
in my five guys guys.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
But it's been a little necessity.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I'm going to defend TIBs a little bit here in
that during the regular season he actually did not do
the wear these guys down thing. I have the number here.
There's no Nick ranked in the top ten in minutes
a game during the regular season, so they had a
bunch of injuries. You know, guys played a lot because
of the injuries, but it wasn't the sort of typical
what we criticized tips for I'm just gonna play you
(20:55):
no matter what and run guys into the ground on
individual minutes. However, in the playoffs has been running the
guys into the ground in individual minutes. But it's because
you don't have guys, right, I mean, Julius Randall And
it goes down the list from there, and I feel
like guys drop like flies every day. Mitchell's gone, Og
seems to be gone. I mean, there's just there's so
many guys where they don't have anymore, so you got
to play them the way they are. And Jalen Brunson
(21:16):
is obviously hurt. Again, here's another set of numbers for you.
And I'm curious though, like where this affects you, just
shooting wise and all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
As a point guard.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Over the two games in Indiana, our friend Brian Windhorse
had a great stat in the story he wrote of
the game. He said Brunson missed ten of his jumpers
short and that according to the tracking software they have,
he was jumping two and a half inches lower on
his shots than he did during the season. I thought
it was a great stat in Brian's story.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
What does that do to you?
Speaker 4 (21:48):
He's right on the head. I mean, that's fatigue.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
He's a jump shooter maker, jump shot maker and not
having your legs, not having their proper rest and being
able to obeit, having to make pretty much every play
with his ess and they're wearing his ass down, you know.
And and give kudos to to Rick Carlisle. He he's
doing a hell of the job.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
How hard was that though? To say, not hard at all?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
I mean college spaders bag, you know what I mean.
I think it's a really good coach. He's makes hell
of adjustments. And again like with him switching Nate Smith
on the Brunton, I mean, they're wearing him down. And
like I said, he probably you know, I mean, he's
he's waking up thinking about Brunston and obviously trying to
be the guy that slows him down and stops from
everybody seeing you know, him being compared to Jordan and
know Nick ever has done you know this and that.
But guys take pride of that, you know, seeing guys
(22:36):
have those type of you know, numbers pop up and
when you cried yourself on defense. I know a guy
like myself, I took those challenges. You know, when Jamie
Lynn came in going crazy, I wanted to be the
guy to stop him.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
So it seems like Nasmith's took that challenge. Uh.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And again fatigue plays a factor being coaching adjustments making factor.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And this patience team we've seen.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
They went down to Milwaukee and responded and then went down
to Nicks responding.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So, like I said, they got a great job in
the locker room.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Miles Turners playing well. I mean they're playing well as
a team, and I think last game, no one played
over twenty five minutes, so they made to rotate so
many guys here and there. Understand that Tim has played
Josh hard, you know x amount of game, ten straight
games in forty eight minutes. I mean, like you said,
I could say history peace itself and it's just impossible
to play. I mean, as much as the guy may
say he wants to play and he looks good, eventually,
(23:23):
over time they're in what game eight now eight nine
in the playoffs, so it's like it's catching up and
it's showing like that stat that he had with numbers
about Brunton jumping two inches shorter or whatever too. It's
whatever shorter, that's serious. And I was watching the game
live and every shot he took the first like six
or seven worth short yep.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well, Lismith too is just bigger, right, so putting him
on him And I'm curious, guys, I mean, we see
this over and over again. The strategy seems to be
they can't call everything right. They're not going to call
every single time that he bumps in or plays some
super physical plays brunts and super physical going down the court.
First of all, they're picking him up a foot from
the baseline on the other side, I mean, it is
(24:06):
clear him out, beat him up, make him every step right.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Once Dame got going, they did the same thing with
picking him full court ninety four feet and wearing him down,
you know what I mean, Like it was.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
They also have a rotation of guys to do it.
They're not depending on what you got to do it
bingo nice J mcconalds coming in and doing.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Yeah man in twenty minutes like in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
That's the difference. That's the difference. Jaynen Brunton is not
only having to score forty a game just for them
to have a chance to win it, he's having to
bring the ball up every single possession against a guy
guarding him full court. That's that's that's impossible for anybody,
that's anybody.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And yet I hear everything you guys are saying. I
see all the numbers you do. There's no extra bodies
in the next locker room that are going to pop out, right,
Will Street's not come? And yet do you feel Indiana
just has this series now?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
No? I still can't say that. No, I'm saying it's
I feel like Tibbs is making a job harder for
them to find success by sticking to this same formula.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
There's nowhere at this point. What are they supposed to do?
There's no one else? Bug Who are they putting in there?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Man? Alex Burtch is the hell of a player. I
think he helps. It shouldn't be to where he's playing
because they're in a blowout, like Alex burd should be
on the floor, like I think.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
He played some of the other games. I have to add,
I'm pretty sure I don't think enough.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
But I don't think they have enoughing we're seeing. It's
just didn't wear them down. I mean, I know they're
gonna have the energy when they go back to the Gardens.
I get that, but the PACER's going to have some
energy as well. I mean, this is a knockout game,
and they feel like they can get this one at
the Garden. They know they're done when they come back
to Indiana. So I mean that's their I'm sure that's
their mindset, and that's what I'm sure the message that
Rick is going to tell these guys, like just winning
(25:57):
one game, we win this game, they're done.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
They got it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
They got to try to win game five because, as
I said, there's there's a little bit of a rest
break before game six. So I just feel like if
New York pulls off this gritty Garden goes crazy, you know,
bonkers game five and they win and they have momentum,
and then it's a closeout game, and then there's you know,
the opportunity to have some rest and then close the
Pacers out in Indiana. I think New York has the
(26:23):
potential to do that. That's why I don't feel like,
oh man, this is Indiana series. Now there is a
window here for New York to win still, even with
the number of bodies they have, I just the Pacers have.
The Pacers should win. They're so much healthier. They had
fifty seven bench points in Game four. And we know
that role players don't play as well on the road,
but they're just so much deeper at this point, and
(26:44):
they should win the series with the way the personnel
is right now. Just strictly on that. Isaiah Hartenstein I
think hurt his shoulder in Game four. Also, I mean
there's just every guy on the next team is banged up.
But I still I don't know. New York is so
gritty and that building is it's been so electric.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I don't know. So I can't say for sure on
this series.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I don't know if you guys have a good feeling,
but I can't say it's going to go right now.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I do feel, I do feel with Og being you know, yeah,
probably unquestionable addition to the team right now, that slams
New York's chance of you know, winning this series. Oh
G's a big part. Like if he's on the floor,
I think they have a chance to pull it out
without him, It's going to be really tough. You think, damnit,
(27:28):
cheese gonna keep it up. No, you have twenty five.
I mean that's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
No, no, and he ran out of guess you can
see the magic start.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
To never twenty five in his life and that's and
that's my dog. He's never averaged twenty five in his life.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, come on, bro, all right, let's talk about the Celtics. Gentlemen.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
For John Ronda, you are up because the Celtics all year,
they've been doing this all year.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
We've seen it, right, we knew this was going to happen.
Coming into the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
They either win by a lot because they can be
so overwhelming, or they sometimes look like they're getting bored.
And I don't want to not give Cleveland credit because
they're They're a game. Cleveland a lot of ingredients, Right,
you got to give him credit. I'm sorry, you're getting
your credit. This isn't just the Celtics couldn't be bothered.
So Donovan Mitchell has shown again why he is a star.
(28:22):
I just I'm really interested to see what happens with him,
not just the summer, but over the course of the
next few years. I think that there's some good young
players on that Cavs team and the interior and all
the advantages they have. But the Celtics should handle this
series pretty easily, just if you look at the talent
disparity here. Even with Kris STAPs, porzingis hurt and sometimes
(28:44):
they don't look like they're focused.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I don't know what do you think that.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Is for Seon, it's easy to get complacent and you know,
I'm gonna say, overlook your opponent. But at the same time,
it feel like you do have it on cruise control,
being able to hit the button, turn it on and off.
But same time, you're giving teams confidence and when you
do that, you know you.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Could be in a fight for a long time.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Give even credit though, you know JB's done a hell
of a job making these adjustments. Star players stepped up,
role player stepped up for Cleveland Game two. So you know,
I'm not going to put it all on the Celtics,
just them overlooking or not respecting their opponent. They came out,
you know, it's a mismake league. They shot pulling from
the three and that's what they.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Rely on themselves.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And then they did they shot well, so but like
I said, it's a missmake league. You know, they did
shoot at thirty five threes and I think game two
and lost. You know, I think eight for thirty five,
but if they made six more threes, it might be
a game, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So it's just it just depends.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
And defensively they may be taking a step back in
game two, but again we saw what they how they
responded on the road Game three in Cleveland, so I
didn't expect to sweep. You know, even after game one lost,
I didn't expect a swep from Cleveland. You know, those
young guys are hungry, theydn't want to fight, and with
a leader in Donny Bravo, Uh, he showed up and
stepped out and showed out to in game two.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
So uh, it might be for one.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
But at the end of the day that I still
think Cleveland get another game. And if that happens, I
don't think it is not to the Celtics. I mean,
the year we won a championship, we played twenty six
games to win and we went seven with we went
seven with Atlanta, I think seven.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
With no I was on so many airplanes for you guys.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I was like, really, you're going to make us travel
to this other city just so you can win there,
just win it home.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
But yeah, we couldn't win on the road our first
couple series.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
So I said, we went seven both series and were
still the winning So I think I see a lot
of similarities and this team as well. I don't think,
you know, people like expecting them the sweet for all,
even though they said they're going to they're the favors
to come out of the East. I mean, these guys did
make the playoffs. They're well coached. Every team in the
East and you have to you have to earn it.
That's what it's about.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
So you hear the reports out of Cleveland. JB is
fighting for his job. So it'll be interesting to see
if they do get another game here.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
You also job as a coach.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
God damn, it is league right now, I know it.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, ask Frank Vocal about the money he got paid.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I mean, it's just in darvin Ham by the way, Like,
I mean, it's just it's it's crazy. We'll get to
the Sun's coaching later, but I just it is kind
of unbelievable. I mean, Boggie, it's kind of crazy when
you look at the Celtics that they have made the
Eastern Conference, finals five of the last seven years. That's crazy, right,
That's like the Detroit Pistons when they had their run
(31:26):
making the Eastern Conference finals over and over. Like, I
just think we don't quite give that enough credit because
we talk about the fact that they haven't broken through
the one the title so often, and look, of those
five out of seven years, only one time did the
advance to the finals. When they did, they were up
to one and then just looks like they kind of
let go of the rope. Golden State won a series
that frankly, the Celtics should have been in more. But
(31:50):
Jason Tatum said something interesting to me after Game two.
He said, I know, he said some version of like,
I know, if we're not perfect, everyone gets on us.
But is that kind of how it feels if you're
the Celtics right now that like you better win the
finals otherwise it's not good.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Let me speak to that real quick. Yeah, because I
mean it is what it is. Nobody remembers number two.
We don't hang conference banners, so it's like that's part
of it. I'm not going to name any other organizations.
But at the same time, like I said, it is
a Celtics organization, and they only hang title banners. That's
part of it. It comes with it. He's been there
(32:24):
for a while. He understands that. So it's no point
of saying, you know the thing that you said, and
you're entitled to have an opin you want to say.
But at the same time, this is what it is
as a c like win or go home.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Nobody remembers number two. He said it best. I have
nothing to say. See, we don't give conference finals like
there you go. Jon.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I want to translate that for anybody watching right now,
is that Rajehn is a a very good guy and
be one a title with the Lakers. So he is
not gonna say anything negative about that organization because he
is a good person. And yet they hung a banner
for a season mid season tournament and I know exactly
Oh they did, Oh they did.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I mean it's the first ever. I mean, it's the
first ever.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You see that.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
So he's down there, We're not.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
This is what it is.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, it would be we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Already hear about Circle Dallas guys, because they have put
their foot in on this series and and you know, look,
we're going to talk about Kyrie. We're going to talk
about Luca. Nothing runs without them. Uh but PJ. Washington,
Daniel Gafford, Lively, they have elevated the MAVs on both ends. PJ. Washington,
(33:56):
by the way, I'm I'm sorry. I know if you're
okay See, you're giving a lot of defensive attention to
Luca and Kyrie, but you're leaving PJ. Washington to do
what he's doing and book. How dangerous is that with
the trio of these big men.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
When they made this trade at the deadline, I thought
it was the perfect trade. I thought PJ. Washington was
perfect mixture players would go with Kyrie and Luca obviously
a Kentucky guy, so I'm a bit biased, but I
also know what the kid can do. But this is
no knock to Dallas. I think they're doing everything they're
(34:33):
supposed to do. I think the new additions are stepping up,
playing the role, playing, you know, beyond expectations. Kudos to them,
But for me, it's about okay See and their big
man depth, the big man experiencing depth. It's just not there,
and it's showing when it comes to Washington, Gadford and Lively. Lively,
(34:55):
the youngest side of the group. But even he's you know,
producing at a high rate. Great, Yeah, I just I
think that's a lot of pressure for the young kid
and okay Chet, I think it's a lot of pressure
for him to have to you know, battle with these
three guys on throughout the series. And also for the
young kid Jalen Wims, they don't have the experience. They
(35:16):
don't Yeah, the other Jalen Wims, they don't have the experience,
they don't have the boat. The veteran presence isn't there,
and it's not really you know, a big on that
bench that they can go to and get advice. So
I think it's starting to show Dallas Biggs are having
their way, and I think that's also you know helping them,
(35:38):
you know, control this series. The way they are so
far outside of Luke and Kyrie playing out of their minds.
I think this is the difference in the series. Just
the big man activity Chat has a lot of pressure
on him. He's still learning, he's still young. I think
he's gonna have an incredible career. I think he's gonna
have a great career, but to expect him to dominate
(36:01):
these matchups, but this really been his first year in
the league is just not realistic. So I think that's
the difference in this series so far. I mean, kudos
to Washington. I mean like this is the perfect fit
for him.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
He came out of a toxic situation and he's somewhere
where he's appreciated along with Kyrie. You know, we've seen
his happiness the way he's been very vocal in the
press conferences. You see him, you know, on the social media,
laughing and shooting out the practice. You know, just the
energy and the chemistry that Jason Kidd has built in
the organization. Shout out some nego as well. But they're
(36:36):
just their happy family, you know. And obviously when when
you're winning, things are great, everyone's smiling. But even through
adversity in the first round with Dallas, you know they'll
be able to stick with it and just give those
guys credit.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Like I said, it starts at the top.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
With Jake Kidd, and I feel like they've given those
young guys life and energy, and they've those young guys
they're big in particular, i'malking about he's giving them energy
and it's a different.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Type of coverage that they've had to.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Okay, he's Biggs having to change this three versus last
year versus the Valentunas and different type of pigs against
New Orla Pelicans. Now they're facing Luca and pick and roll,
Kyrie and pick and roll versus trying to keep a
big but you know, from rotating behind them, all eyes
of presents on these two guys, these two dominant scoring guards,
and that losing of their man with off his rebounds.
(37:17):
They're letting their roller get behind them. So it's just
a lot of different coverages that they're not used to
accustomed to with this age, this lack of experience early
on in this playoffs. So I think things what we're seeing,
but again they'll go back home and make an adjustment
and look forward to seeing what's going to happen next.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, I'm in this series clearly not over by any
long shot either, and there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
To play out here. But we do see the youth.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
We talked about it all going into this playoffs, so
like at some point you pay for the fact that
you haven't been there before. That's just the way the
NBA works. Like it's it's a cliche, because it's true.
The guys with experience know what to do in those
key moments and side. We talked all season about the
fact that the Thunder as great as they've been played
as they were playing and obviously number one seed, the
fact that they got that at the end of the
(37:59):
year was amazing. But they don't have the size some
of these other teams in the Western Conference have. And
chet is tall, but he's not beefy, right, and that
matters when you're talking about the stuff. You're talking about
Boog and then I don't think you can have this
conversation without talking about the way Kyrie Irving has elevated
his defensive game. And we knew he had it in him.
I covered him in Cleveland and he played very sharp
(38:22):
team defense in Cleveland. It's not like he doesn't know
how to be a dog out on the court, but circumstances,
obviously had a difficult few years, was not contributing on
that end the way you would want him to in Boston,
in Brooklyn, and then you look at what Jay Kidd
has brought out of him in Dallas and the comfort
level those two have with each other. I mean, do
(38:43):
you know what it's like to be a guard who
can defend that way? I want to give you another
stat here, when defended by Kyrie, Irving opponents are shooting
eleven percentage points worse than expected. That ranks fifth among
any players playing any real time in the playoffs. Here,
eleven percentage points worse than expected when defended by Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
And one thing that you.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Know they mentioned last night in the press conferences or
the other day in the press conferences, was that he's
so handsy, right, and those great hands that we see
with the finishes around the rim, the steals that he's getting.
He's averaging nearly four deflections a game though that the
impact is so huge it's almost even hard to quantify.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Right, absolutely, I mean he's one of the greatest players
we've ever seen played the game.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
I mean we all be in all of this offensive
skill set.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
But again, if he wants to click a button to
play defense, which we've seen that he's doing, you know,
he's taking pride in his defense. Obviously, him and a
little bit as different as deficiency on the guard level
on the defensive side of what they say, so they say,
but they both taken pride, like I said, Luke, and
last series against the Clippers. In this series and Kyrie
in this entire playoffs. But again when giving a challenge
(39:53):
the guys magidude how great he is. He's accepting it
and excelling in his role.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
I don't think we're using a career turn when where
we're you know, while we're speaking on Kyrie, I think
I think the main thing that Kyrie has shown throughout
this playoff is leadership and championship leadership. You know, that's
not really a term that's attached to Kyrie's name because it's.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
So much dirt, and it should be.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
This is championship leadership. He's showing it on both sides
of the ball. He's doing it through his play, it's
not necessarily vocal, and he's also doing it within his role.
He's allowing with Luca to be Luca and then at
the same time he's being Kyrie on both ends of
the ball. So I just want to, you know, give
him Miss Flowers for showing the leadership, because you know,
(40:41):
they're so quick to throw dirt on this kid's name.
I'm happy for him to be in this happy place.
We see him smiling, we see him you know, relax.
We get to see the Kyrie that we were used
to seeing and It's almost like, you know, being in
a relationship, if if you want the best and your relationship,
you got a cater to your girl. And I think
(41:02):
the Dallas Mavericks a catering to Kyrie and making sure
he's happy and in a good place. And with that
being I return for them, right exactly, if you want
the best out of your girl, you got to give
it a knife. Tell me there you go, it's a
happy year.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Well look the respect between him and Jay Kid. You know,
he went to Jason Kidds Hall of Fame induction just
because he was such a big Jason Kidd fan. Right,
they had a relationship. It's not like they have a relationship,
but he had never played for him at that point.
It was an unexpected sighting at Ja Kid's Hall of
Fame induction was just sort of like, oh, Kyrie's here,
and it was just because of the amount of respect
and love that he had for j Kid. So I
(41:44):
just think that tells you what's going on there. And
Jason from the day Kyrie walked in there, has had
that kind of respect for Kyrie, which, as you point out,
not everyone around the league has had. And so the
fact that they he knew what it would take to
get the best out of him and vice versa.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
I think has been exceptional.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
And when you are knocking down an opponent's shooting percentage
by more than ten percent, that is it's impressive.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That is that is going to make a difference.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
So sing he showed up.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
To my fiance's fashion fashion show, Kyrie did, and we
don't have a great relationship, So I just kind of
what you said. It's a great human being, fair players
to watch. I encourage Pierre to watch him all the time,
like watching really yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
And look, Jason, I think, by the way, is the
other factor we haven't talked about as much when I'm
talking about this series.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Jason is a guy who has been through all the wars.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
He's done everything from the spill Coke to everything he
did as a player, like all the stuff, everything in
Dallas and Dirk, all the all the years. It makes
a difference when you're in these moments and you know,
obviously Matt Mark Dagno is Coach of the Year and
has done an incredible job there. But it makes a
difference when you have coaches that have been through a
(43:00):
lot and Michael Malone we talked about it earlier in
this show. He made some great adjustments going into this
weekend in Minnesota, and Michael Malone has been very vocal
about the fact that there were at least two inflection
points where management in Denver ownership could have fired him,
and they stuck with him, and they knew that he
was a good coach who maybe had a down year,
(43:21):
who had bad injuries or had other things going on,
and they stuck with him. And it makes a difference.
And here we see again another franchise rotating the door. Well,
I'm sorry, it feels dumbed to have to say that,
like smart coaching and consistency make a difference, but it
doesn't seem to be the standard in this league. I
just told you that all of the reporting out of
(43:43):
Cleveland is that JB is fighting for his job there
and we had the Sons just hire Mike Budenholzer, and
I wanted to get your guys take on it, especially
you Boogie. You played for him in Milwaukee at five year,
fifty five year, fifty million dollar plus deal and replacing
and Vogel, they won titles. I think back to back
Frank one and twenty and Bud one in twenty one,
(44:06):
and it's just okay, here's the revolving door. What do
you think on this hiring and for getting the job book.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Well, my first thought on this is it's it's mady
ironic how players are held to theirs, to these standards
when it comes to you know, character flaws and you
know what type of person they are on and off
the court, and you know those things are held against them.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I'm not going as well to say it.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
No, I don't have to say anything. I'd rather people
read between the lines. But also when it comes to
the signs, I feel like they're putting the band aid
on a gunshot. No paroxide. They an't even clean the
fucking one. It's no peroxide, no neilspon, no rubbing alcohol.
(44:58):
They just slapped the bad on there and said it
get better. This this doesn't really move to there. And
at the same time, we're still in this this era
of where we're just recycling the same coaches like Frank
Vogel won the championship in twenty twenty, right, Bud won
(45:21):
a championship twenty twenty one. What's the fucking difference. I
don't understand, Like how this fix fixes your problems as
a franchise, as a team.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Or even that's the problem to me, you can't you
can't particularly blame the coach if you if you're the
higher you bringing a coach a championship call of coach,
and then you fire a year later, Like what sense
does that make? I feel like that's a player fire.
But what I'm confused about is like before you hired
this guy, you don't talk to the players, don't. I
(45:54):
don't get why you would try to give make him
a scapegoat when it's like you look at the problem,
but actually the players on the court, like some they
have to be held accountable at some point. You can't
hire a coach and when you're expect him to win
a championship, and on top of that, seeing what the
team that they got swept by is doing to the
defending champs right now. So it's like I thought they
would give them a little bit more grace as far
(46:15):
as like okay, cool, it's not just look like this
team is legit, Like they would have lost fingers, lost
them bidgets in the conference finals, like regards, they would
have lost them regardless because they have dogs on the perimeter.
That want that smoke. Yeah, they don't like I don't.
I don't get why said I disagree with that.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I'm upset.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
I don't have any problem, but Mike, it's not about him.
It's about they said, the organization and how they just
fired Frank and now they're expecting Mike to come and
do something different if they don't change their roster, Like
it has to be a roster change, and that's in
general manager. Yeah, I mean the best player off the bench,
and my dog is Eric Gordon come off the bench,
(46:56):
Like you can't expect him to give you twenty five
or you know he's not the six six man? Can
they player the year anymore? Like he's not the same
caliber player. He's old, a lot older now. So it's like,
that's what you're offering, that's what the tools you're giving
me to play with.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
You want me to go out here and win.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Book? Do you see?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I mean you know I said you were up close
in that locker room with Bud and his coaching style,
even if just talking x's and o's, Like, do you
see him being able to do anything differently or what
do you see him unlocking something we don't see? I
mean I assume they're going to get a point gird,
I assume they're going to get hold there.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I don't think it's about his coaching style. I think
it's more so about his personality and the personalities he
wants to mess with. When it comes to coaching, it's
not just about x's and o's. It's about managing egos.
It's about managing different personalities, and as a coach, you
can't you can't shortcut it by saying, oh, well, I
just don't like this personality, so I don't want to
(47:50):
coach like, well, that's a disaster waiting to happen. And
that's part of the reason PJ. Tucker didn't go back
to Milwaukee after winning the championship because he didn't like PJ,
which is fucking mind blown.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So everyone likes PJS.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Right, So my thing is it's like, it's like I said,
I just don't understand this recycling door. You know, coach
goes here and then he's there for two years, then
he's over to another team for another two years. And
what happened the teams creating chemistry, the reason that that
Denver is as good as they are, they've been together
(48:27):
for years the same coach, the same core years. They
went through losses, they went through wins, They've been through
ups and downs together. That's how you figure out yourself
as a team. This recycling door of coaches for you know,
two years here, a year here, you'll never find success
that way. Trying to trying to find a coach that's
gonna win a championship in one year. That's a hard
(48:49):
thing to do for any I don't care who.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Even with the roster they had though, Like it's not
even you got guys that don't sput a defense like
it from anybody.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Man, what are we doing? James Jones he gets to
hide in the shadows after putting together this bullshit ass
roster like he's not it's Frank Vogel's fault. But James
Jones puts this bullshit ass roster together with no point guard.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
But I don't think it's James Jones fault either, I
really don't. I don't think it's either one of their fault.
I think you had a new owner who came in
who has every new I mean again so that before
to be a great owner in this league. But they
do it every time. It's like it's like clockwork.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
It's like one game is he not fire?
Speaker 3 (49:36):
They win one game, they lose for one is you know?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I mean like yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
But you have a new owner who came in he
knew better than everybody, just like they always do. It's
it's it's work. Makes a huge trade for KD makes
the other trade for badly Beale. I don't think that's
James Jones fault. That was a directive from above. And
then I have to assume this was too. And and again,
the quick trigger and the organizations that behave this way
are actually causing the coaches who do play for the
(50:05):
right organization that guys like the Nuggets coach. You know,
obviously Dallas, they're being patient all that stuff. Jay Kidd
just got a contract extension that he can directly. I
hope he sends a thank you note to Lebron James,
because it is the threat of the Lakers wanting to
take him away that got him that coaching extension in Dallas.
And by the way, obviously because he deserved it. I'm
not saying that, but the timing of it was very specific, right,
(50:29):
and tylu is going to get the same extension, by
the way, and he deserves it also, and he was
due for one, but I'm sorry. You can thank the
Lakers for the size of the number that is going
to come across there, right right.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Agree, Tom is all about life, It's all about time.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
You can catch all episodes of bully Bombed Trackings Network,
all the Smoke Productions YouTube channel. Please rate and review
us wherever you get your podcast. We need those five
star reviews. We will catch you next week.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
We're out, babe.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Mhm.
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