Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
iHeartMedia Presents CEOs you should Know. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm John Dinkell, founder and CEO of Dnkele Business Development
and former publisher of the Baltimore Business Journal. This is
iHeartRadio CEOs you should Know and I'm here today with
Dave Hartman, CEO Apartment Executive Advisors. Welcome David, thanks for
being here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey, John, thanks for having me. Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, it looks forward to catch it up with you.
I thought we'd begin by just getting to know you
a little bit and the organization. So for those who
aren't familiar, could you tell us about Hartman Executive Advisors.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, no, great, thanks for starting with that. You know,
as I think about Hartman and our mission what we do,
I think it's really important to understand the why, you know,
why are we founded and why don't we continue to
grow and do what we do At the end of
the day, we were founded to be an executive advisor
executive resource for CEOs CFOs to really give them the
(00:55):
confidence to make decisions in a critical area of their business.
They're quite frankly, most of them don't have the confidence
to make and that is technology and cyber strategy. And
we did a survey about three or four years ago
to found out that ninety seven percent of executives CEO, CFOs,
et cetera say that technology and cyber are critical success
(01:18):
factors to their businesses growth only, but eighty three percent
of them said they lack the confidence or the knowledge
or the strategic leadership ship required to execute on that.
That's a huge gap, and that's what we were founded
to provide. So we do that in three key areas.
We are hugely independent. We don't sell or profit from
(01:39):
any technology. We hire very senior executive CIOs CTOs chief
information security officers to provide that industry centric knowledge, and
we start with the business first. You know, technology in
a vacuum just doesn't cut it. We can solve the
technology problems of our clients only if we first understand
their business. And so those three key areas are that
(02:01):
are kind of how we execute on that line.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Got it? And what's your mission?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, I'd say, you know, I'd say our our mission
is to be that you know, trusted executive resource for
our you know, for our clients, and you know, and
to provide something that mostly mostly doesn't exist. You know,
most of our clients have I t vendors and they
have you know, cousin Johnny as I always say, or
cousin Sally, you know running I T the larger ones
(02:30):
obviously more, but very few of them really have that
true strategic leadership, that business focused executive leadership. And our
mission is to provide that to small and mid sized
clients in a way that's affordable, scalable, achievable for them.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
That's great, now I understand. Uh, Hartman is celebrating twenty
years in business. So first of all, congratulations, So what
does that mean to you? And and you're your partner there, Brie.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, you know, thank you. Yeah, we are celebrating twenty years.
It's been a fun year celebrating ironically, and you know
something that not everybody knows, you know, technically, you could
say we're celebrating twenty two years because because two years
before we start, we started Hartman what was called Hartman
Business Technology back then. Two years before that, we really
were doing a lot of consulting. Marie was really our
(03:21):
first consultant, you know, doing a lot of sales and
marketing and doing some really cool work with clients and retail.
She worked for an internationally renowned composer, doing some pr work,
really doing some cool work. Then we started the technology
thing twenty years ago, and our goal was to do
both technology and marketing, and we realized, you know, we
(03:41):
couldn't be great at both, and you know, we chose
the technology path of you know, that sort of leadership
path and growing from there. But it's been fun. I
mean it's been challenging, you know, kind of working with
you your wife partner, you know, my wife that's as
our business partner. But it's been a lot of fun
and a huge challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And it worked out on the technology side, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, I think we could have been, you know, good
at both, but yeah, I worked out. It's been a
lot of fun, and it is a little more unique.
I mean I think we're still probably the only company
of our clid do what we do.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, that's great. Now, cybersecurity continues to be just a
big topic of discussion among CEOs and other executives. Talk
to us about you know, what services do you provide
around ground cybersecurity and the kind of the strategic services
I guess that you provide.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, no, thank you. You know, it's funny about ten
years ago, people like our clients were asking, you know,
do you do cyber? You know, can you can you
help with a cyber and I kept saying, no, We're
not a cyber company. We're a CIO company. We're in
an I T leadership company. And eventually I realized, Okay, no,
we can do this, and we do need to do this.
But the last thing I wanted to do was just
add one more company to the you know, thousands or
(04:56):
millions of companies out there doing cyber you know, monitor systems,
intrusion detection, you know whatever, all important critical stuff. I
thought there was a unique role we could play there too,
And that's what we do is we are more of
a strategic advisor to the executive team, really helping them
understand the real risk that cyber presents to them and
(05:18):
then make sure they understand the path to get there,
the path to effectiveness, the path to mitigating that risk
effectively in a way that they can still do business
but are appropriately mitigating the risk and with a path
to overcoming that risk if they have a problem, and
(05:39):
that's critical to most CEOs.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, yeah, well, and how you're communicating it to internally
and externally, and yeah, what's the what is the plan.
I guess instead of being reactive, being proactive too and attack.
It's going to It's going to happen at some point, right,
they have to every small, mid size, especially large businesses, right.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Absolutely, And it's important to understand. You know, what we
always say to our executive teams is cyber is not it? Right,
There is an element of it to the cyber equation,
but cyber is a business risk, it's an enterprise risk,
and it is an effective is an important element of that,
but it's not the same, and so it's important that
(06:22):
they really think about their cyber strategy. How do they
you know, what are they introducing as risk? Why are
they introducing that risk? What? You know, what's the cost
benefit to that risk? And then it is okay, we've
introduced this system, now let's make sure it runs effectively
and safely. But when companies try to mix the two
and think that one is the same as the other,
(06:45):
I think that's where they get in trouble. And our
mission really is to help clients understand how do they
differentiate those in a way that a small, mid sized
client can understand and embrace.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're totally right. I mean, I
think there is a big misconception that, yeah, cybersecurity is
it or but I mean, obviously there's a function of it,
and absolutely ike is used to combat and you know,
prevent and all that kind of thing. But but the
I guess what you're saying is the you know, companies
need to think about it really from a high level
(07:16):
strategically and how what happens if an attack happens? How
do you how do you deal with that? How do
you set up internal systems and processes either to make
sure it doesn't happen or when it happens. These are
the protocols you take and all that stuff I would imagine, Yeah,
a lot of a lot of CEOs or CEOs or
the C suite doesn't really don't have the expertise to no,
(07:36):
absolutely to do that.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. And one of the one of
the things that are one of our early cyber leaders
used to say is, you know it's important. For instance,
you know, miss everyone knows what myst is. It's the standard.
It's a protocol for companies, you know. But but getting
to an standard and protecting yourself against an standard is great.
But the bad guys know that this standard also, so
(07:59):
if you're if you're doing that, then they know exactly
where you are and exactly where to you know where
to get around it. You have to be better than that.
And and yeah, and so that's our goal is to
help really create effectiveness, not just not just manage to
a standard. Gotcha?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Now is this the same for artificial intelligence? I mean,
I'm sure you're getting a lot of that with your
clients now, you know, Dave, how do we how do
how do we manage you know AI in our business? Like?
Is that is that a thing? Should we be doing
that right now? Or is it just kind of a
buzzword right now?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
How?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
What are you? What are you hearing around the whole
you know AI and machine learning thing with you?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Great question, John, great question. We actually, again we didn't
want to be just one more AI app company or
one more company rolling out and it's all critical, right
and what they do is critical. We thought the gap
was to really be that shirpa for our CEOs, helping
them understand the opportunity but also understand the risk and
(08:59):
make sure they're reading guardrails while they create opportunity to
you know, to move the needle and to roll the
ball down the lane and uh and so you know,
we've hired i think one of the most talented effective
uh AI gurus in the country as our head of AI.
We've hired data scientists and then of course, combined with
(09:20):
our cyber the three really come together to provide an
effective roadmap for our mid market clients. How do we
take advantage of it, How do we understand what what
key roll data and data strategy plays in that, and
then how do we make sure we're doing it in
a secure and effective way.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, that must be huge because I talked to a
lot of CEOs and business owners and and a lot
there's a lot of kind of wait and see. They'll
understand how it's going to affect their business or impact that.
They've heard good things. They can automate this, automate that,
and you know, use our PA and all these other tools,
but they there's not enough. There's not no one on
(09:59):
their staff that really knows it and knows how to
attack it, you know, so it's kind of they sit
and they're sitting in waiting, you know, kind of until
they have to use that or you know, they get
that prompted to so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And in some cases, you know that that'll be too late, right,
I mean, you know the world will pass them by,
and you know, but it's it's important to take a
top down and a bottom up approach to this, right
and and so you just can't, you know, you just
can't do whackable. Right, Let's buy this, do this, try this.
You have to really have a plan, but you have
to be nimble because the world of AI is changing
every day and evolving and what was true six months
(10:33):
ago isn't even thought about today, and you have to
stay on top of it, you know as well.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, thank you, appreciate you talking about that. I wanted
to see now. I know you have a very kind
of unique niche business. Do you have competitors and if so,
what what sets you apart from them?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And if I ever say we don't have competitors, you
know everyone has competitors, right, I mean I think we
you know, we can say that there are few, if
any companies that are figured the way we're configured to
provide the services we provide, but we certainly have competitors, right.
You know, there's all kinds of managed services providers out
there that are also trying to be you know, the
outsourced CIO or the virtual CIO for their clients. There's
(11:13):
accounting firms and other professional firms that are doing that.
You know, we are our competitors are sometimes the I
t director of our clients to say, now if we
don't need help, I can do it myself. So we
have plenty of competition, uh, you know, but our our
job is really to you know, to help an executive
understand how can we help them accomplish this critical role better, faster, stronger.
(11:37):
And you know, we were very blessed to have done that,
but you know we we have a long way to
go obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Sure. Sure, So talk about the kind of the industries
you serve, and like who's a good who's a good
prospect for you guys?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You know, thank you. So I would say we have
four main industries, right we have our healthcare sector is
not the hospitals, the large organizations of healthcare, but a
lot of middle market healthcare, long term care and hospice
and a lot of the surgical centers, all the all
the kind of middle market of healthcare. Nonprofits, range of
(12:12):
associations to charitable foundations, those kinds of things. The third
would be our financial services banks, community banks, credit unions
and other type of financial services organizations. And then the
fourth is our manufacturing, distribution and general contracting you know
kind of world. There's other industries we serve education certainly,
(12:35):
you know, government contracting, state and the local. Uh, those
kind of pfessional services firms of ourselves themselves. But before
I mentioned are kind of the four key industries that
were growing around.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Uh, thanks for sharing and sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Well you also asked, like what what distinguishes a company
we can help? And what I always say is we
are helping companies where the needs of the business is
outpacing the ability of their IT function to deliver on
that business. Right. So maybe they're doing it, but to
grow and to evolve they need more or maybe you know,
(13:14):
they're they're actors, they are acquiring and now they have
three or four different things going on and and need
an advisor to sort of bring it all together. Bottom
line is is it and his cyber position to be
an effective growth engine for the organization And when there's
a gap, that's where we really sit in.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Where do you see kind of growth in the coming year?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, like I said, thanks, you know the COVID sort
of provided an opportunity, right, we grew to about one
hundred people we were. Now you know, we have employees
in twenty some states with clients in thirty some states.
So we've grown, but we have room to grow there.
There's plenty of market there for us to grow that
leadership model and to be the CIO of that actively
(14:00):
for more and more clients in different areas. But but
there's a lot of opportunity also. We're very excited about
the role we can play from an AI and machine
learning and and sort of a digital leadership perspective and
then cyber and so I think you know, when you
put those three together, that's really where the growth comes.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Awesome, awesome, thank you all right, like kind of switch
gears a little bit. I like to, you know, talk
about leadership on the show. So sure, how would you
describe your leadership style?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Wow? I you know, I use the term lead from
the front a lot, and that's an important part of lifestyle.
What I don't mean by that is, yeah, you have
to be the technical expert and everything. You don't have
to you know, ci CBO doesn't have to be the
you know, the smartest person. But with everything the company
is doing. But you know, I think it means never
(14:51):
asking my people to do something I'm not willing to do,
understanding what's important to them, and delivering being you know,
not being afraid to be out in front, taking responsibility
and accountability when things, you know, go wrong, as well
as when they go right. And I would say, and
I'd say, that's my style, you know, drowning myself with
really great people, letting them lead, but but also you know,
(15:15):
being an effective mentor guide you hopefully inspiration for them.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Love it, love it. Thank you. I appreciate you for
sharing that. And you had mentioned a little earlier about
the pandemic and how you you know, grew through there.
And even though the general kind of scare of the
pandemic is over, even though we'll kind of live without
the rest of our lives, what what did you learned
about managing communicating with people during that time.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, well that's that's a great question and bringing back nightmares.
But you know, it's funny because I remember the early
days of when the pandemics first, you know, hit, and
you know, the first reaction I mean we were literally
getting called was almost it felt like almost every day
from clients that said, you know, Dave's team, we love
(16:05):
you guys, we just can't afford to pay you anymore.
You know, we're struggling to stay in business or whatever
it was. And you know, we got together very quickly
and said, you know, we cannot let these clients go,
but they can't afford to fire us. Especially there's some
of our healthcare, finding, community services, banking, key manufacturing. We
(16:25):
had one of our clients was, you know, the nation's
largest ppe manufacturer, a couple of them, and we just
couldn't let that go. And so we decided we told
our clients, you're not firing us. We're working. You may
not be able to pay us right now, you will eventually.
We're not letting you go. Maybe we've got to change
how we do business with you, but we're not letting
you go. And I think that was key. Thankfully, all
(16:47):
but one of them eventually paid us. Many of them
are still with us, and many of them are still
thriving and growing. But I think that was key. And
I think the other thing that we did, I think,
you know, we made a lot of mistakes through that time,
but the other thing we did really well was really
understand the money. You know, where is our you know,
where's our cash, where are expenses, where are revenues coming from?
(17:09):
And really keeping you know, a close eye. You always
have to do that. Cash is can but I think
through a crisis you really need to understand the money
and understand where you are from a cash from reserves,
from a you know, from a from expense and from
a uh, you know, receivables perspective. And I think that
was that was good work.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Thank you appreciate sharing that. What so what gets you?
What gets you excited about the future Apartment executive advisors?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah? So, I you know, look, I I still think
we are or I should say still I think we
are defining a business category. Right. You know this idea
that businesses, you know, they need effective lawyers, strategic accounting advisors, bankers,
you know, critical strategic business advisors to serve addecutive team
(18:01):
the c suite. They also need independent strategic IT and
cyber leadership. And so this idea of being a strategic, independent,
trusted technology and cyber advisor, I think is hopefully creating
a business category that you know, I hope becomes ubiquitous.
You know, it's still not a household name. But you know,
when you say you're a law firm, everybody knows what
(18:22):
that is. You know, when we say we're a CIO
advisory firm, everyone what what does that mean? You know?
But I'm still excited about that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, well, and I think rightfully. So, I think that
the whether it's the pandemic or just the kind of
normal kind of how things are maturing, it's I think
that fractional service model is one that's going to stay
and continue to grow. And the fact that you guys
have been doing it for twenty plus years, I mean wow.
(18:55):
I mean you've got so much experience behind you, and
you've made some mistakes, but you also had some big
wins and you learn from those mistakes, and you're like,
you're way ahead of a lot of people that are
doing fractional work. So I think that's. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I love that you said that. You know Steve case
who I'm not a name dropper, but he was. We
were blessed to be one of his. He was one
of our early clients back in two thousand and four.
I'll never forget the date we were. It was six,
two thousand and five. Sinko de Mayo five oh five
o five. When we got the call from his COO
(19:28):
that he had the other they engaged us. But he's
been a long time client. But he wrote in his book,
in one of his most recent books, you know, and
I'm in a paraphrase, but basically, you know, every company
has a lot of smart people in their four walls
inside their company, but there are more smarter people outside
your company. And the key to effectiveness in the world
going forward is how do you engage that talent? And
(19:49):
you're right, I mean, there are a lot of really
smart executives out there who don't want to play that
role for one company anymore, who want to provide that experience,
that service to a portfolio of clients, whether it's CIO
or COO or CMO, CFO. It's it's a really key
and the executives who are embracing that are the ones
(20:09):
that are getting ahead.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I love that. So so what
on the other side of the thing, what what keeps
you up at night?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, it's the same thing right in fact that you know,
we're not addiculous, right, you know that I can't just
say we're a law firm. You know, so we always
have to be looking for ways to you know, to
differentiate ourselves, to prove that value, to to communicate that
value in a in a in a profitable, you know,
relevant way. But also, you know we were chatting earlier.
(20:43):
You know, we did grow well over the pandemic, and
and we've spent the last couple of years really growing
into that skin, you know, that larger skin and that
larger you know frame, and and so you know that's
been keeping me up and always making sure. You know,
I said long ago, I didn't go to start a
company just.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
To pay payroll.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
You know, we had to be profitable and effective and
making a difference. And that's If that's not keeping every
CEU up and night, there's something wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I love it. Thanks for sharing that. Well, to wrap
things up, is there anything else you'd like our listeners
to know about you and Hartman Executive Advisors.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Well, I guess you know one of the things I
would say, Well, so first of all, I would say,
you know, we're always looking for great talent, right, So
if you're out there listening to this and you're like
you're a CIO or you're an IT or cyber professional,
and like I really would love a challenge, a different
challenge to take what I've learned over my career and
build a portfolio of leadership. You know, for myself. We're
(21:45):
always hiring, so I would say, you know that, But
I guess the other thing I would say is I
just love having these conversations, right, so you know, if
there's again a CEO out there who just wants to
have a conversation about what does everything we just talked
about mean to them, whether they need us as a
client or not, I love having these conversations, So you know,
pick up the phone, you know, email me whatever. I'd
(22:06):
love to. I'd love to chat with you about, you know,
what we see as the future and what the role
that CEOs play really in crafting that executive IT and
cyber strategy as an executive and because it's such at
a key part of their portfolio, their business portfolio. I
love having those conversations.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Awesome, awesome, Well, tell us how to find more information
about apartment.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
To Our website is Heartmanadvisors dot com and my my
email is is de Hartman at Heartmanadvisors dot com. I
think our main number. I hope I get this right.
I don't call it very often, but four ten, six
hundred thirty two hundred and you know, and that'll get
to me. Awesome, but but uh, to look forward to
(22:52):
the chats.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Awesome. Well, thank you, Thanks Dave. I really appreciate you
taking the time. Great catching up with you. It's been
too long. I'm glad we were able to chat today
and appreciate all your insights.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So thank you, John. Thank you for doing what you're doing.
This is a is a great forum and you know
it's necessary, So thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
This has been iHeartMedia CEOs. You should know
iHeartMedia Presents CEOs you should Know. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm John Dinkell, founder and CEO of Dnkele Business Development
and former publisher of the Baltimore Business Journal. This is
iHeartRadio CEOs you should Know and I'm here today with
Dave Hartman, CEO Apartment Executive Advisors. Welcome David, thanks for
being here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey, John, thanks for having me. Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, it looks forward to catch it up with you.
I thought we'd begin by just getting to know you
a little bit and the organization. So for those who
aren't familiar, could you tell us about Hartman Executive Advisors.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, no, great, thanks for starting with that. You know,
as I think about Hartman and our mission what we do,
I think it's really important to understand the why, you know,
why are we founded and why don't we continue to
grow and do what we do At the end of
the day, we were founded to be an executive advisor
executive resource for CEOs CFOs to really give them the
(00:55):
confidence to make decisions in a critical area of their business.
They're quite frankly, most of them don't have the confidence
to make and that is technology and cyber strategy. And
we did a survey about three or four years ago
to found out that ninety seven percent of executives CEO, CFOs,
et cetera say that technology and cyber are critical success
(01:18):
factors to their businesses growth only, but eighty three percent
of them said they lack the confidence or the knowledge
or the strategic leadership ship required to execute on that.
That's a huge gap, and that's what we were founded
to provide. So we do that in three key areas.
We are hugely independent. We don't sell or profit from
(01:39):
any technology. We hire very senior executive CIOs CTOs chief
information security officers to provide that industry centric knowledge, and
we start with the business first. You know, technology in
a vacuum just doesn't cut it. We can solve the
technology problems of our clients only if we first understand
their business. And so those three key areas are that
(02:01):
are kind of how we execute on that line.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Got it? And what's your mission?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, I'd say, you know, I'd say our our mission
is to be that you know, trusted executive resource for
our you know, for our clients, and you know, and
to provide something that mostly mostly doesn't exist. You know,
most of our clients have I t vendors and they
have you know, cousin Johnny as I always say, or
cousin Sally, you know running I T the larger ones
(02:30):
obviously more, but very few of them really have that
true strategic leadership, that business focused executive leadership. And our
mission is to provide that to small and mid sized
clients in a way that's affordable, scalable, achievable for them.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
That's great, now I understand. Uh, Hartman is celebrating twenty
years in business. So first of all, congratulations, So what
does that mean to you? And and you're your partner there, Brie.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, you know, thank you. Yeah, we are celebrating twenty years.
It's been a fun year celebrating ironically, and you know
something that not everybody knows, you know, technically, you could
say we're celebrating twenty two years because because two years
before we start, we started Hartman what was called Hartman
Business Technology back then. Two years before that, we really
were doing a lot of consulting. Marie was really our
(03:21):
first consultant, you know, doing a lot of sales and
marketing and doing some really cool work with clients and retail.
She worked for an internationally renowned composer, doing some pr work,
really doing some cool work. Then we started the technology
thing twenty years ago, and our goal was to do
both technology and marketing, and we realized, you know, we
(03:41):
couldn't be great at both, and you know, we chose
the technology path of you know, that sort of leadership
path and growing from there. But it's been fun. I
mean it's been challenging, you know, kind of working with
you your wife partner, you know, my wife that's as
our business partner. But it's been a lot of fun
and a huge challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And it worked out on the technology side, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, I think we could have been, you know, good
at both, but yeah, I worked out. It's been a
lot of fun, and it is a little more unique.
I mean I think we're still probably the only company
of our clid do what we do.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, that's great. Now, cybersecurity continues to be just a
big topic of discussion among CEOs and other executives. Talk
to us about you know, what services do you provide
around ground cybersecurity and the kind of the strategic services
I guess that you provide.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, no, thank you. You know, it's funny about ten
years ago, people like our clients were asking, you know,
do you do cyber? You know, can you can you
help with a cyber and I kept saying, no, We're
not a cyber company. We're a CIO company. We're in
an I T leadership company. And eventually I realized, Okay, no,
we can do this, and we do need to do this.
But the last thing I wanted to do was just
add one more company to the you know, thousands or
(04:56):
millions of companies out there doing cyber you know, monitor systems,
intrusion detection, you know whatever, all important critical stuff. I
thought there was a unique role we could play there too,
And that's what we do is we are more of
a strategic advisor to the executive team, really helping them
understand the real risk that cyber presents to them and
(05:18):
then make sure they understand the path to get there,
the path to effectiveness, the path to mitigating that risk
effectively in a way that they can still do business
but are appropriately mitigating the risk and with a path
to overcoming that risk if they have a problem, and
(05:39):
that's critical to most CEOs.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, yeah, well, and how you're communicating it to internally
and externally, and yeah, what's the what is the plan.
I guess instead of being reactive, being proactive too and attack.
It's going to It's going to happen at some point, right,
they have to every small, mid size, especially large businesses, right.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Absolutely, And it's important to understand. You know, what we
always say to our executive teams is cyber is not it? Right,
There is an element of it to the cyber equation,
but cyber is a business risk, it's an enterprise risk,
and it is an effective is an important element of that,
but it's not the same, and so it's important that
(06:22):
they really think about their cyber strategy. How do they
you know, what are they introducing as risk? Why are
they introducing that risk? What? You know, what's the cost
benefit to that risk? And then it is okay, we've
introduced this system, now let's make sure it runs effectively
and safely. But when companies try to mix the two
and think that one is the same as the other,
(06:45):
I think that's where they get in trouble. And our
mission really is to help clients understand how do they
differentiate those in a way that a small, mid sized
client can understand and embrace.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're totally right. I mean, I
think there is a big misconception that, yeah, cybersecurity is
it or but I mean, obviously there's a function of it,
and absolutely ike is used to combat and you know,
prevent and all that kind of thing. But but the
I guess what you're saying is the you know, companies
need to think about it really from a high level
(07:16):
strategically and how what happens if an attack happens? How
do you how do you deal with that? How do
you set up internal systems and processes either to make
sure it doesn't happen or when it happens. These are
the protocols you take and all that stuff I would imagine, Yeah,
a lot of a lot of CEOs or CEOs or
the C suite doesn't really don't have the expertise to no,
(07:36):
absolutely to do that.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. And one of the one of
the things that are one of our early cyber leaders
used to say is, you know it's important. For instance,
you know, miss everyone knows what myst is. It's the standard.
It's a protocol for companies, you know. But but getting
to an standard and protecting yourself against an standard is great.
But the bad guys know that this standard also, so
(07:59):
if you're if you're doing that, then they know exactly
where you are and exactly where to you know where
to get around it. You have to be better than that.
And and yeah, and so that's our goal is to
help really create effectiveness, not just not just manage to
a standard. Gotcha?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Now is this the same for artificial intelligence? I mean,
I'm sure you're getting a lot of that with your
clients now, you know, Dave, how do we how do
how do we manage you know AI in our business? Like?
Is that is that a thing? Should we be doing
that right now? Or is it just kind of a
buzzword right now?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
How?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
What are you? What are you hearing around the whole
you know AI and machine learning thing with you?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Great question, John, great question. We actually, again we didn't
want to be just one more AI app company or
one more company rolling out and it's all critical, right
and what they do is critical. We thought the gap
was to really be that shirpa for our CEOs, helping
them understand the opportunity but also understand the risk and
(08:59):
make sure they're reading guardrails while they create opportunity to
you know, to move the needle and to roll the
ball down the lane and uh and so you know,
we've hired i think one of the most talented effective
uh AI gurus in the country as our head of AI.
We've hired data scientists and then of course, combined with
(09:20):
our cyber the three really come together to provide an
effective roadmap for our mid market clients. How do we
take advantage of it, How do we understand what what
key roll data and data strategy plays in that, and
then how do we make sure we're doing it in
a secure and effective way.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, that must be huge because I talked to a
lot of CEOs and business owners and and a lot
there's a lot of kind of wait and see. They'll
understand how it's going to affect their business or impact that.
They've heard good things. They can automate this, automate that,
and you know, use our PA and all these other tools,
but they there's not enough. There's not no one on
(09:59):
their staff that really knows it and knows how to
attack it, you know, so it's kind of they sit
and they're sitting in waiting, you know, kind of until
they have to use that or you know, they get
that prompted to so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And in some cases, you know that that'll be too late, right,
I mean, you know the world will pass them by,
and you know, but it's it's important to take a
top down and a bottom up approach to this, right
and and so you just can't, you know, you just
can't do whackable. Right, Let's buy this, do this, try this.
You have to really have a plan, but you have
to be nimble because the world of AI is changing
every day and evolving and what was true six months
(10:33):
ago isn't even thought about today, and you have to
stay on top of it, you know as well.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, thank you, appreciate you talking about that. I wanted
to see now. I know you have a very kind
of unique niche business. Do you have competitors and if so,
what what sets you apart from them?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And if I ever say we don't have competitors, you
know everyone has competitors, right, I mean I think we
you know, we can say that there are few, if
any companies that are figured the way we're configured to
provide the services we provide, but we certainly have competitors, right.
You know, there's all kinds of managed services providers out
there that are also trying to be you know, the
outsourced CIO or the virtual CIO for their clients. There's
(11:13):
accounting firms and other professional firms that are doing that.
You know, we are our competitors are sometimes the I
t director of our clients to say, now if we
don't need help, I can do it myself. So we
have plenty of competition, uh, you know, but our our
job is really to you know, to help an executive
understand how can we help them accomplish this critical role better, faster, stronger.
(11:37):
And you know, we were very blessed to have done that,
but you know we we have a long way to
go obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Sure. Sure, So talk about the kind of the industries
you serve, and like who's a good who's a good
prospect for you guys?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You know, thank you. So I would say we have
four main industries, right we have our healthcare sector is
not the hospitals, the large organizations of healthcare, but a
lot of middle market healthcare, long term care and hospice
and a lot of the surgical centers, all the all
the kind of middle market of healthcare. Nonprofits, range of
(12:12):
associations to charitable foundations, those kinds of things. The third
would be our financial services banks, community banks, credit unions
and other type of financial services organizations. And then the
fourth is our manufacturing, distribution and general contracting you know
kind of world. There's other industries we serve education certainly,
(12:35):
you know, government contracting, state and the local. Uh, those
kind of pfessional services firms of ourselves themselves. But before
I mentioned are kind of the four key industries that
were growing around.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Uh, thanks for sharing and sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Well you also asked, like what what distinguishes a company
we can help? And what I always say is we
are helping companies where the needs of the business is
outpacing the ability of their IT function to deliver on
that business. Right. So maybe they're doing it, but to
grow and to evolve they need more or maybe you know,
(13:14):
they're they're actors, they are acquiring and now they have
three or four different things going on and and need
an advisor to sort of bring it all together. Bottom
line is is it and his cyber position to be
an effective growth engine for the organization And when there's
a gap, that's where we really sit in.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Where do you see kind of growth in the coming year?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, like I said, thanks, you know the COVID sort
of provided an opportunity, right, we grew to about one
hundred people we were. Now you know, we have employees
in twenty some states with clients in thirty some states.
So we've grown, but we have room to grow there.
There's plenty of market there for us to grow that
leadership model and to be the CIO of that actively
(14:00):
for more and more clients in different areas. But but
there's a lot of opportunity also. We're very excited about
the role we can play from an AI and machine
learning and and sort of a digital leadership perspective and
then cyber and so I think you know, when you
put those three together, that's really where the growth comes.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Awesome, awesome, thank you all right, like kind of switch
gears a little bit. I like to, you know, talk
about leadership on the show. So sure, how would you
describe your leadership style?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Wow? I you know, I use the term lead from
the front a lot, and that's an important part of lifestyle.
What I don't mean by that is, yeah, you have
to be the technical expert and everything. You don't have
to you know, ci CBO doesn't have to be the
you know, the smartest person. But with everything the company
is doing. But you know, I think it means never
(14:51):
asking my people to do something I'm not willing to do,
understanding what's important to them, and delivering being you know,
not being afraid to be out in front, taking responsibility
and accountability when things, you know, go wrong, as well
as when they go right. And I would say, and
I'd say, that's my style, you know, drowning myself with
really great people, letting them lead, but but also you know,
(15:15):
being an effective mentor guide you hopefully inspiration for them.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Love it, love it. Thank you. I appreciate you for
sharing that. And you had mentioned a little earlier about
the pandemic and how you you know, grew through there.
And even though the general kind of scare of the
pandemic is over, even though we'll kind of live without
the rest of our lives, what what did you learned
about managing communicating with people during that time.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, well that's that's a great question and bringing back nightmares.
But you know, it's funny because I remember the early
days of when the pandemics first, you know, hit, and
you know, the first reaction I mean we were literally
getting called was almost it felt like almost every day
from clients that said, you know, Dave's team, we love
(16:05):
you guys, we just can't afford to pay you anymore.
You know, we're struggling to stay in business or whatever
it was. And you know, we got together very quickly
and said, you know, we cannot let these clients go,
but they can't afford to fire us. Especially there's some
of our healthcare, finding, community services, banking, key manufacturing. We
(16:25):
had one of our clients was, you know, the nation's
largest ppe manufacturer, a couple of them, and we just
couldn't let that go. And so we decided we told
our clients, you're not firing us. We're working. You may
not be able to pay us right now, you will eventually.
We're not letting you go. Maybe we've got to change
how we do business with you, but we're not letting
you go. And I think that was key. Thankfully, all
(16:47):
but one of them eventually paid us. Many of them
are still with us, and many of them are still
thriving and growing. But I think that was key. And
I think the other thing that we did, I think,
you know, we made a lot of mistakes through that time,
but the other thing we did really well was really
understand the money. You know, where is our you know,
where's our cash, where are expenses, where are revenues coming from?
(17:09):
And really keeping you know, a close eye. You always
have to do that. Cash is can but I think
through a crisis you really need to understand the money
and understand where you are from a cash from reserves,
from a you know, from a from expense and from
a uh, you know, receivables perspective. And I think that
was that was good work.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Thank you appreciate sharing that. What so what gets you?
What gets you excited about the future Apartment executive advisors?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah? So, I you know, look, I I still think
we are or I should say still I think we
are defining a business category. Right. You know this idea
that businesses, you know, they need effective lawyers, strategic accounting advisors, bankers,
you know, critical strategic business advisors to serve addecutive team
(18:01):
the c suite. They also need independent strategic IT and
cyber leadership. And so this idea of being a strategic, independent,
trusted technology and cyber advisor, I think is hopefully creating
a business category that you know, I hope becomes ubiquitous.
You know, it's still not a household name. But you know,
when you say you're a law firm, everybody knows what
(18:22):
that is. You know, when we say we're a CIO
advisory firm, everyone what what does that mean? You know?
But I'm still excited about that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, well, and I think rightfully. So, I think that
the whether it's the pandemic or just the kind of
normal kind of how things are maturing, it's I think
that fractional service model is one that's going to stay
and continue to grow. And the fact that you guys
have been doing it for twenty plus years, I mean wow.
(18:55):
I mean you've got so much experience behind you, and
you've made some mistakes, but you also had some big
wins and you learn from those mistakes, and you're like,
you're way ahead of a lot of people that are
doing fractional work. So I think that's. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I love that you said that. You know Steve case
who I'm not a name dropper, but he was. We
were blessed to be one of his. He was one
of our early clients back in two thousand and four.
I'll never forget the date we were. It was six,
two thousand and five. Sinko de Mayo five oh five
o five. When we got the call from his COO
(19:28):
that he had the other they engaged us. But he's
been a long time client. But he wrote in his book,
in one of his most recent books, you know, and
I'm in a paraphrase, but basically, you know, every company
has a lot of smart people in their four walls
inside their company, but there are more smarter people outside
your company. And the key to effectiveness in the world
going forward is how do you engage that talent? And
(19:49):
you're right, I mean, there are a lot of really
smart executives out there who don't want to play that
role for one company anymore, who want to provide that experience,
that service to a portfolio of clients, whether it's CIO
or COO or CMO, CFO. It's it's a really key
and the executives who are embracing that are the ones
(20:09):
that are getting ahead.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I love that. So so what
on the other side of the thing, what what keeps
you up at night?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, it's the same thing right in fact that you know,
we're not addiculous, right, you know that I can't just
say we're a law firm. You know, so we always
have to be looking for ways to you know, to
differentiate ourselves, to prove that value, to to communicate that
value in a in a in a profitable, you know,
relevant way. But also, you know we were chatting earlier.
(20:43):
You know, we did grow well over the pandemic, and
and we've spent the last couple of years really growing
into that skin, you know, that larger skin and that
larger you know frame, and and so you know that's
been keeping me up and always making sure. You know,
I said long ago, I didn't go to start a
company just.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
To pay payroll.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
You know, we had to be profitable and effective and
making a difference. And that's If that's not keeping every
CEU up and night, there's something wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I love it. Thanks for sharing that. Well, to wrap
things up, is there anything else you'd like our listeners
to know about you and Hartman Executive Advisors.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Well, I guess you know one of the things I
would say, Well, so first of all, I would say,
you know, we're always looking for great talent, right, So
if you're out there listening to this and you're like
you're a CIO or you're an IT or cyber professional,
and like I really would love a challenge, a different
challenge to take what I've learned over my career and
build a portfolio of leadership. You know, for myself. We're
(21:45):
always hiring, so I would say, you know that, But
I guess the other thing I would say is I
just love having these conversations, right, so you know, if
there's again a CEO out there who just wants to
have a conversation about what does everything we just talked
about mean to them, whether they need us as a
client or not, I love having these conversations, So you know,
pick up the phone, you know, email me whatever. I'd
(22:06):
love to. I'd love to chat with you about, you know,
what we see as the future and what the role
that CEOs play really in crafting that executive IT and
cyber strategy as an executive and because it's such at
a key part of their portfolio, their business portfolio. I
love having those conversations.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Awesome, awesome, Well, tell us how to find more information
about apartment.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
To Our website is Heartmanadvisors dot com and my my
email is is de Hartman at Heartmanadvisors dot com. I
think our main number. I hope I get this right.
I don't call it very often, but four ten, six
hundred thirty two hundred and you know, and that'll get
to me. Awesome, but but uh, to look forward to
(22:52):
the chats.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Awesome. Well, thank you, Thanks Dave. I really appreciate you
taking the time. Great catching up with you. It's been
too long. I'm glad we were able to chat today
and appreciate all your insights.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So thank you, John. Thank you for doing what you're doing.
This is a is a great forum and you know
it's necessary, So thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
This has been iHeartMedia CEOs. You should know
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