December 6, 2023 • 23 mins
Karl Hofmann
Karl Hofmann is the President and CEO of Population Services International (PSI), a non-profit health enterprise working in over 40 countries worldwide, with programs in family planning and reproductive health, malaria, water and sanitation, HIV, and non-communicable diseases.
PSI works in partnership with local governments, ministries of health, and local organizations to create health solutions and health systems built to last.
Prior to joining PSI, Hofmann was a career American diplomat. He served as U.S. Ambassador to the Republic of Togo, Executive Secretary of the Department of State, and Deputy Chief of Mission (senior career diplomat) at the U.S. Embassy in Paris, France. He also served on President Clinton’s National Security Council staff.
Hofmann is Vice-Chair of the U.S. Global Leadership Coalition, a Director of the One Acre Fund, a member of the CSIS Commission on American Health Security, and of the American Academy of Diplomacy. He is a graduate of Georgetown University and the National Defense University.
Karl Hofmann is the President and CEO of Population Services International (PSI), a non-profit health enterprise working in over 40 countries worldwide, with programs in family planning and reproductive health, malaria, water and sanitation, HIV, and non-communicable diseases.
PSI works in partnership with local governments, ministries of health, and local organizations to create health solutions and health systems built to last.
Prior to joining PSI, Hofmann was a career American diplomat. He served as U.S. Ambassador to the Republic of Togo, Executive Secretary of the Department of State, and Deputy Chief of Mission (senior career diplomat) at the U.S. Embassy in Paris, France. He also served on President Clinton’s National Security Council staff.
Hofmann is Vice-Chair of the U.S. Global Leadership Coalition, a Director of the One Acre Fund, a member of the CSIS Commission on American Health Security, and of the American Academy of Diplomacy. He is a graduate of Georgetown University and the National Defense University.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Wes M and T Bank presents CEOs. You should know power. Bye I
Heart, let's meant Carl Hoffman.He is the president and CEO for Population
Services Internationally nonprofit based in Washington,DC that works in over forty countries.
PSI is a network of locally rooted, globally connected organizations working to achieve consumer
(00:21):
power healthcare people centered health systems thatit's your quality, affordable care, wherever
and whenever it is needed. Beforewe talk more about PSI and all the
wonderful things are doing worldwide, Ifirst asked Carl to talk a little bit
about himself, where he's from andhis origin story. I was born in
California, Northern California, grew upin that beautiful part of the world,
(00:43):
but like many people who are eighteen, wanted to get as far away from
home as possible. So when Igot a chance to go to college,
came to Georgetown here in the Washington, DC area. And I remember arriving
in August nineteen seventy nine for myfreshman year college and it was classic Washington
August. It was about seven o'clockin the morning when the plane landed,
(01:04):
it was eighty degrees and raining andI thought this can't be a real part
of the world because it doesn't happenlike that in California. But stay at
Georgetown, loved it, and outof Georgetown I joined the US Foreign Service.
Well, listen, I want totalk about that, and of course
we're going to talk about everything that'sPSI and all the wonderful things you your
(01:26):
team do worldwide, because it's trulyincredible. It's a lot of hard work,
and we know running any kind ofnonprofit it's really difficult, but I've
been keeping an eye on you guys. That's just very impressive. So we're
going to talk a lot about PSIjust a second, but for contextual purposes,
I always love to talk to ourleaders about what they did before they
joined their current organization and out ofschool. You've got so many cool things
(01:48):
you've done, and this could beits own separate interview Carl of the great
things that you've done. But ifyou could maybe share a little bit with
our audience and what you did beforePSI, sure, thanks so much,
Dennis. I mean, as Isaid, I left Georgetown University and joined
the US Foreign Service and had afantastic career there. Really for twenty three,
twenty four years the privilege of representingthe United States and serving around the
(02:13):
world in different US embassies. Lateron, toward the end of that I
was US Ambassador to the Republic ofTogo in West Africa. My last job
in the Foreign Service was at theUS Embassy in Paris, which was a
fabulous adventure. Started out working inKingston, Jamaica as my first post.
(02:34):
From there, I went to Kigali, Rwanda. Many of the listeners probably
have heard about Rwanda from the awfulstory of what that country's been through,
and it's a really fascinating part ofthe world, I can assure you,
and very beautiful part of the world. And so that was my introduction to
Africa, and from Rwanda, spenta lot of time in other parts of
Africa, and that made my transitionto PSI, which we'll talk about easier,
(03:00):
because I understood the kind of workthat PSI was doing. Well.
We're going to drill down on alot of that because I think there's so
many fasting, different levels and layersto talk about. But I did want
to ask you about joining the organizationafter seeing your resume and hearing you talk
about and all the amazing things you'vedone in world traveler and working with so
many smart and cool people like yourself. I could see why PSI was interested
(03:21):
in you. But why were youinterested in PSI? Well, you know,
I had encountered the work that PSIwas doing when I was assigned in
West Africa with the State Department.And what did I see. I saw
an American organization, a nonprofit organizationthat was working on an issue that I
was really passionate about, which wasHIV prevention at the time. That was
(03:44):
so therefore working with people who werereally stigmatized, people who were marginalized,
communities that were really suffering, Andso I admired the work that PSI was
doing. The organization that I witnessedwas in country by an African which I
thought was a really good signal ofhow PSI looked at leadership, and I
(04:08):
was just impressed. And when Ihad a chance to come back to Washington
on some official business, I wentand met with the then president of PSI,
the guy who turned out to bemy predecessor, to get a sense
for the organization and the work thatthey were doing in Togo at the time
was funded by US taxpayers, andI was really impressed. I thought this
was an edgy organization taking the appropriaterisks, working on hard issues, trying
(04:31):
to work with really marginalized populations,and doing so with real creativity and energy.
And so I had a really positiveimpression of PSI. And when I
heard that there was a possibility tocompete for the job I have now I
took it well, very good.Well, let's talk about mission statement.
What is that for PSI. PSImakes it easier for all people to lead
(04:56):
healthier lives and plan the families theydesire. Let me bring set down a
little bit. What does it meanmake it easier? That speaks to what
we call our social marketing roots.You know that we use the principles of
marketing, which could involve branded products, it could involve behavior change communication.
It's the kind of thing that radio, frankly does all the time, right,
(05:17):
and they have the advertisers that supportradio are about that kind of marketing,
right. Social marketing is using allthose principles of marketing to help people
adopt a healthier behavior that's good forthem and for their community. And so
that's what make it easier is aboutwe're trying to make it easier for people
(05:38):
to put their five year old undera mosquito neet at night in Africa.
Make it easier for people to usea condom when they might be having risky
sex. Make it easier for peopleto have safe drinking water in their home
right by using the right hydrochlorine solution, just as an example. So make
it easier for people to lead healthierlives and plan the families they desire.
(06:00):
And why do we add that well, because PSI started out fifty plus years
ago really focused on issues relating toreproductive health, trying to meet the needs
of women in the Global South whowanted to limit their family size or space
their pregnancies but didn't have the meansto do that with modern contraception. And
(06:23):
that's a market failure that we've beentrying to address help address for fifty years.
So that's our mission statement. Carl, Let's do this. If we
were to give a thirty thousand footview and explain to the layman that might
be introduced to PSI for the firsttime, what would you tell them?
Overall? What you do? Wework with people around the world to provide
(06:44):
them the products and services that canmake them healthier and to strengthen the health
systems where they work so that allthe other actors around are helping them to
lead healthier lives. And that's thethirty thousand foot level. If you give
me five thousand people below that,what does that mean. It means helping
to prevent malaria deaths, particularly forkids in Africa. You know, there's
(07:08):
been a lot of progress in malaria, but still hundreds of thousands of children
die from malaria every year. Wecan prevent that, and you can prevent
that with different tools and different approaches, and we try and be a part
of that. HIV you know,there's a lot of progress in controlling that
epidemic, but we're not in thefinal lapse yet. We still have to
get more treatment to people. Westill have to help people with prevention.
(07:31):
We have to prevent young people frombecoming infected. We're trying to bring products
and services and behavior change communication tothat, and on and on. With
all the different areas of health thatwe work in. It's about helping communities
in the global South, because wework outside the US, be able to
lead healthier lives and work and experiencea health system that's working better for them,
(07:57):
so Carl to give you a littlecontext of my next question. And
several years ago, there was athree part series on Netflix that came out
about Bill Gates's foundation and all thethings he does behind the scenes, and
one of them was having people designa new sewage system for people that didn't
have toilets at all, right,And it was fascinating to watch, and
I was thrilled that people like thatare spending good, hard earned money on
(08:18):
proper things for people worldwide to havethings that we take for granted. So
it was very educational. I thoughtwas cool. And I looked at your
website as I got really excited abouttalking to you and what your organization does
and working worldwide. I was curiousbecause there are so many different layers,
programs and capabilities. How do youdecide what you want to work on,
where the money's allocated, what problemis most important, what's second, third,
(08:41):
and fourth. There's a lot ofbig decisions to make because there are
so many issues out there, Sohow does it all work? Thanks for
putting your finger on that, Dennis. I mean, look, the reality
is for every nonprofit, at leastall the ones that I know, you're
trapped between what you know, theneeds are on the one hand, and
where the money is or where thefinancing is to meet those needs on the
(09:03):
other and there's always a mismatch.Yeah, we work, for example,
and we've worked for a long timewith funding from Bill and Will in the
Gates about improving sanitation and specifically toiletsand market based sanitation approaches to meet that
unmet need. Right in sanitation,that's not been an issue that gets a
(09:26):
lot of attention, although that's changingnow. You know, there isn't a
global fund for sanitation, right Thereisn't a President's Initiative for toilets, you
know, the way there is forHIV or for malaria. So there's a
mismatch between the need and where themoney is. And you know, if
(09:46):
we were as NGO leaders able todecide exactly where to put all the money
that we had, we might makedifferent allocations. But the people who give
us the money. Sometimes it's BillGates, sometimes it's the US taxpayers,
sometimes it's foreign governments. Sometimes it'swealthy individuals or just people who care about
(10:07):
the issues. They all have aview about what they want to fund,
and so they don't just give usa blank check. They're telling us,
we need you to address this problemin this country in this way, and
so it's a negotiation, right.We know what the needs are, it's
not always where the money is.Sure, we try and match those up
as best we can get right.One other thing I learned from the documentary
and I was reading about the otherday is about eradicating polio too. You
(10:30):
know, they're just a lot ofamazing things that are happening out there.
So as we go a little deeperinto this in the different programs, I
would like you if you can't,off the top of your head, get
some context to what we're working withwith some of the issues that you talked
about. A few more if you'dlike to bring up about statistics that you're
looking at, and they might bea little daunting and they might surprise our
audience, But as I was readinga lot of them, you know,
(10:50):
there's a lot of things that arecompletely out of whack when it comes to
server world countries that we rely onas normal services that they don't take for
and don't have, or the smallpercentage of people are using these kind of
things. So can you go oversome statistic sports and just enlighten US in
certain areas. Sure. I mean, you know, the first thing you
would have to say about many ofthe places where we operate is that the
(11:15):
health system either really doesn't exist oronly functions for a really small part of
the population. Look, we canall debate whether or not the US health
system works well for everybody. Itprobably doesn't work as well as it should.
I think we could all agree withthat. But you know, there's
a pretty robust, expensive American healthsystem that just doesn't exist in a lot
of the places where my nonprofit andmany others work. Right, So on
(11:41):
one level, it's like the systemjust doesn't not enough doctors, not enough
healthcare facilities, not enough you know, commodities in those health care facilities when
they do exist. That's the pointnumber one, point number two. Different
things are killing or sickening people aroundthe world. I mean, you know,
we don't think about malaria as arisk about our day to day life.
(12:03):
Were dark although although pay attention tothis because we're now beginning to see,
because of the warming climate, areturn to little episodes of locally transmitted
malaria in the US. We thoughtthis problem was solved decades ago, and
it was yeah, I saw.I saw it pop up in Florida.
Yeah, I saw the news.That's right, that's right. And you
(12:24):
know, the mosquitoes and the parasitethat they carry that causes malaria is pretty
pretty resilient, pretty creative parasite,and it changes in response to every tool
that we've thrown at it over theyears. But in Africa, where I
lived for many years, you know, you sleep under a mosquitoet at night,
and you might take prophylaxis, youknow, you might take a drug
(12:48):
to try and prevent getting malaria.And it's really risky for young kids.
And as I mentioned, hundreds ofthousands of African children in particular are succumbing
every year to malaria. This isa problem we don't even think about here,
but it's a life altering reality inmany parts of Africa. And you
(13:09):
mentioned sanitation. You know, thereare many places around the world the majority
obviously doesn't have access to improved sanitation. Drinking water the way we take for
granted. One answer to that issomething like what we call point of use
water treatment solutions. You know,your water that you're getting from a tap
(13:31):
at or near your home might notbe safe to drink but if you treat
it with a simple solution or aproduct, you can make it safe to
drink hydrochlory right, or working onimproving sanitation through building out a whole infrastructure
for community toilets. Right. Youknow, people who don't have access to
(13:52):
improved sanitation and may practice what's referredto as open defecation. You know,
there are lot behaviors and traditions thatgo into that, but that's really fundamentally
a market failure. There isn't anoffering there so that people have an alternative
to that. So how do wepull together all the people and the pieces
(14:13):
of the infrastructure to make it possiblefor improved sanitation to be at everyone's grasp.
We're a long way from that,which talking billions of people who don't
have access to that. We worryabout things like Flint, Michigan, you
know, where drinking water is taintedin the United States, that's unacceptable.
We should fix that problem everywhere,but outside the US, particularly in the
global South. You know, that'sone of the long list of challenges improved
(14:37):
sanitation, water quality and allowing peoplesometimes to take the measures into their own
hands in their own homes, tobe able to get a more quality water
to drink and avoid illness. Well, it's a great point you bring up,
and I go back to that documentaryagain, and what I also learned
is that when you have these problems, whether they're here in the United States
(15:00):
or they're in third world countries,it pushes our smart people to be even
smarter and better. And you know, we've got ev happening right now thanks
to Elon Musk. He pushed theindustry and everybody's on board. And as
I watched that documentary, I waswatching machines being developed by engineers that don't
necessarily do what Gates wanted them todo, but said, listen, I
(15:20):
want you to think outside the boxand I need I need a system where
we use human waste and we turnit into drinking water. Let's do that.
And they did that. And sothat's what I'm so amazed by what
you and your organization do, becausethe ingenuity and raising the bar and once
again coming up with things that wetake for granted here in North America that
(15:41):
these third world countries don't have isextraordinary. And I know also, Carl,
that you're only hitting the tip ofthe iceberg. The things that you're
working on. But it's just trulyextraordinary. Well, and we're not the
only ones, you know, thereare a lot of great organizations doing a
lot of innovation. Gates has fundeda lot of that other organizations from that
your tax dollars from the little ofthat dentist. And I'll come back to
that point because I think you shouldbe proud of what your tax dollars do.
(16:03):
But you know, you know,sometimes we refer to that as leapfrogging.
Right, So you and I bothgrew up. We grew up in
homes with a fixed line telephone,that's right, and no internet on social
media, that's right. And youknow, I don't know about you,
but we don't have a fixed lineat home anymore. We just use our
cell phone. We do not.But there's a lot of copper cabling that's
(16:25):
you know, was run throughout theUnited States for telephones and other purposes in
many parts of Africa. And Idon't want to over focus on Africa,
but this is certainly true at Africa, you know, widespread use of cell
phones. Now, they never hadfixed lines. They just leap frogged right
over that, right, And thereare other ways that Africa in some ways
is leapfrogging over what we have built. You know, mobile money, the
(16:52):
ability to move money and make paymentsusing your cell phone, and this is
so widespread in many developed in countriesin the Global South. We think it's
an innovation here. We're kind ofimpressed when it all works right. They're
decades ahead of us on that front. Amazing because they didn't have the banking
infrastructure, they didn't have the ATMs, they didn't have all the ability to
(17:14):
move cash around, but they didfigure out how do you sell phones as
a way to transmit money, Andso there's a lot we can learn from
what's happening in the Global South,even as we're trying to help make it
better there. Well, in thehuman condition is adapting, that's what you're
talking about. So it's just amazing. We have only just several minutes left.
But what I do want you totalk about is the future, because
I know with every president's CEO,especially nonprofits, and the way you do
(17:37):
with working with forty plus countries isextraordinary in itself, but you're always looking
for the future and what's next tothat five to ten year plan. And
I know that you can't keep upwith technology because it's so fluid and it's
moving so quickly. But as youshare with our audience and we get to
know a little bit more about PSI, CAURL, what is in the future
for you and your team, andwhat are you working on that you're excited
about? Right, We feel likewe're onto. We have a good sort
(18:03):
of strategic approach to what we're doingthat we think is the culmination of all
these decades in work, which wesimply sum up as a consumer powered approach.
Right, Think about what you experiencedover the last couple of years,
Dennis, I bet you took ahome COVID test, absolutely, and I've
taken a lot of them, right, and we all understood what it meant
to be able to look after ourown health without going to a doctor's office,
(18:27):
without going to see a nurse,without getting a prescription. We could
do a lot of that at homewith our own technology that we could acquire,
right, a simple test that wouldtell us whether we were sick with
the virus or not. That consumerpowered approach, putting more decisions and an
ability to control your own healthcare directlyin your hands. We think that's exciting
(18:49):
we think that's transformational. Actually,that consumer powered approach that leap frogs over
many other barriers. We see thatas kind of a red thread are strategy
going forward, and we're excited aboutthat. You mentioned technology. Yeah,
there's huge innovation on the frontiers oftechnology, but digital, as I talked
about already, you know, theinnovations that we see in places where we
(19:11):
work in the Global South, inreally what we think of as poor and
vulnerable parts of the world, butreally innovative in terms of digital approaches.
All of the digital innovations for myown company is based out of Nairobi.
We've got, you know, adozens of Kenyon digital developers working for us
(19:33):
that are coming up with digital healthsolutions that we apply all across our global
network. So there's real innovation inthe South. We're excited about that.
And you know, Dennis, beforeI know we run out of time,
I mentioned your tax dollars, andI do want to make this point.
A lot of what we do andmany other organizations like mine, is funded
by American taxpayers through organizations like USAIDor the Center for Disease Control or even
(20:00):
the Department of Defense. Right,those tax dollars and if you think of
that as part of the overall fundingthat goes for the international affairs work of
the US government, which is everythingthat organizations like mine do, everything that
the State Department does, everything thatthe Treasury Department does, all our contributions
to the UN peacekeeping, contributions tothe World Bank, Multi ledl development banks,
(20:26):
all of that is one percent ofthe federal budget. All of that
is one percent of the federal budget. It's a lot of money in absolute
terms. It's really good value forthe American taxpayer. And I hope that
everyone who is a listener can understandand be proud of what their investments in
global wellness and health and stability andpeace and prosperity, what they're getting for
(20:48):
those investments, because it's impressive.It's impressive. Well, thank you for
sharing all that, Carl, Beforewe let you go. This series is
based on leaders, entrepreneurs and peoplethat are forward thinking, that take chances.
And I'd be remiss if I didn'task you because of your incredible background.
You've worked with presidents, you workedwith really top leaders. You're obviously
(21:12):
a world traveler. You've done alot, and there's still more to go.
But I'd like to know, andI'm sure the future entrepreneurs and the
current CEOs that are listening would loveto know. When it comes to all
the great people that you had thechance to meet and get to know,
and that you adopted some of thatleadership into your own leadership skills, what
(21:32):
would you like to impart to theaudience as far as what you've learned from
other people that you've ingreened in yourown way that you lead and that you
think other people, depending on whatthey do for living, should lead.
Thanks Dennis. I think there arethree elements for successful leadership in any walk
of life that I can imagine atleast right now. One is empathy,
One is listening, which is reallyhard actually, and one is communication.
(21:56):
Right. I know, I nevercommunity, I can never communicate to much
in my role. I'm always tryingto communicate more. I know I can
always be a better listener, andI really respect those who are skilled at
listening. And if you're a leaderwho shows up without empathy these days,
I don't think you're going to havea lot of followers. So empathy,
listening, and communication are key elementsof leadership for me. Great advice and
(22:18):
I'm good. Agree more with you, Okay. If anybody is looking at
a career, would like to partnerup with you or just find out more
about PSI. What's the website,Carl? Thanks www dot PSI dot org.
We publish all of our job openingsthere. We're always hiring. It's
a place where people can go tolearn more about our work. It's a
place where people can go to donate, and we thank everyone who knows about
(22:41):
us, and we encourage everyone who'sinterested to learn more about us and to
find a way to be engaged inthese great events around the world. Well,
Carl, I've thoroughly enjoyed This conversationin twenty minutes doesn't do justice for
all the amazing thing you and yourteam do at PSI. But I can't
thank you enough. Continued success,stay safe, and thank you so much
for your learning us on CEOs.You should know, we really do appreciate
(23:02):
it. Thank you, Dennis.Thank you. Our community partner, M
and T Bank supports CEOs, youshould know as part of their ongoing commitment
to building strong communities, and thatstarts by backing the businesses within them.
As a bank for communities, Mand T believes in dedicating time, talent,
and resources to help local businesses thrivebecause when businesses succeed, our communities succeed.
Wes M and T Bank presents CEOs. You should know power. Bye I
Heart, let's meant Carl Hoffman.He is the president and CEO for Population
Services Internationally nonprofit based in Washington,DC that works in over forty countries.
PSI is a network of locally rooted, globally connected organizations working to achieve consumer
(00:21):
power healthcare people centered health systems thatit's your quality, affordable care, wherever
and whenever it is needed. Beforewe talk more about PSI and all the
wonderful things are doing worldwide, Ifirst asked Carl to talk a little bit
about himself, where he's from andhis origin story. I was born in
California, Northern California, grew upin that beautiful part of the world,
(00:43):
but like many people who are eighteen, wanted to get as far away from
home as possible. So when Igot a chance to go to college,
came to Georgetown here in the Washington, DC area. And I remember arriving
in August nineteen seventy nine for myfreshman year college and it was classic Washington
August. It was about seven o'clockin the morning when the plane landed,
(01:04):
it was eighty degrees and raining andI thought this can't be a real part
of the world because it doesn't happenlike that in California. But stay at
Georgetown, loved it, and outof Georgetown I joined the US Foreign Service.
Well, listen, I want totalk about that, and of course
we're going to talk about everything that'sPSI and all the wonderful things you your
(01:26):
team do worldwide, because it's trulyincredible. It's a lot of hard work,
and we know running any kind ofnonprofit it's really difficult, but I've
been keeping an eye on you guys. That's just very impressive. So we're
going to talk a lot about PSIjust a second, but for contextual purposes,
I always love to talk to ourleaders about what they did before they
joined their current organization and out ofschool. You've got so many cool things
(01:48):
you've done, and this could beits own separate interview Carl of the great
things that you've done. But ifyou could maybe share a little bit with
our audience and what you did beforePSI, sure, thanks so much,
Dennis. I mean, as Isaid, I left Georgetown University and joined
the US Foreign Service and had afantastic career there. Really for twenty three,
twenty four years the privilege of representingthe United States and serving around the
(02:13):
world in different US embassies. Lateron, toward the end of that I
was US Ambassador to the Republic ofTogo in West Africa. My last job
in the Foreign Service was at theUS Embassy in Paris, which was a
fabulous adventure. Started out working inKingston, Jamaica as my first post.
(02:34):
From there, I went to Kigali, Rwanda. Many of the listeners probably
have heard about Rwanda from the awfulstory of what that country's been through,
and it's a really fascinating part ofthe world, I can assure you,
and very beautiful part of the world. And so that was my introduction to
Africa, and from Rwanda, spenta lot of time in other parts of
Africa, and that made my transitionto PSI, which we'll talk about easier,
(03:00):
because I understood the kind of workthat PSI was doing. Well.
We're going to drill down on alot of that because I think there's so
many fasting, different levels and layersto talk about. But I did want
to ask you about joining the organizationafter seeing your resume and hearing you talk
about and all the amazing things you'vedone in world traveler and working with so
many smart and cool people like yourself. I could see why PSI was interested
(03:21):
in you. But why were youinterested in PSI? Well, you know,
I had encountered the work that PSIwas doing when I was assigned in
West Africa with the State Department.And what did I see. I saw
an American organization, a nonprofit organizationthat was working on an issue that I
was really passionate about, which wasHIV prevention at the time. That was
(03:44):
so therefore working with people who werereally stigmatized, people who were marginalized,
communities that were really suffering, Andso I admired the work that PSI was
doing. The organization that I witnessedwas in country by an African which I
thought was a really good signal ofhow PSI looked at leadership, and I
(04:08):
was just impressed. And when Ihad a chance to come back to Washington
on some official business, I wentand met with the then president of PSI,
the guy who turned out to bemy predecessor, to get a sense
for the organization and the work thatthey were doing in Togo at the time
was funded by US taxpayers, andI was really impressed. I thought this
was an edgy organization taking the appropriaterisks, working on hard issues, trying
(04:31):
to work with really marginalized populations,and doing so with real creativity and energy.
And so I had a really positiveimpression of PSI. And when I
heard that there was a possibility tocompete for the job I have now I
took it well, very good.Well, let's talk about mission statement.
What is that for PSI. PSImakes it easier for all people to lead
(04:56):
healthier lives and plan the families theydesire. Let me bring set down a
little bit. What does it meanmake it easier? That speaks to what
we call our social marketing roots.You know that we use the principles of
marketing, which could involve branded products, it could involve behavior change communication.
It's the kind of thing that radio, frankly does all the time, right,
(05:17):
and they have the advertisers that supportradio are about that kind of marketing,
right. Social marketing is using allthose principles of marketing to help people
adopt a healthier behavior that's good forthem and for their community. And so
that's what make it easier is aboutwe're trying to make it easier for people
(05:38):
to put their five year old undera mosquito neet at night in Africa.
Make it easier for people to usea condom when they might be having risky
sex. Make it easier for peopleto have safe drinking water in their home
right by using the right hydrochlorine solution, just as an example. So make
it easier for people to lead healthierlives and plan the families they desire.
(06:00):
And why do we add that well, because PSI started out fifty plus years
ago really focused on issues relating toreproductive health, trying to meet the needs
of women in the Global South whowanted to limit their family size or space
their pregnancies but didn't have the meansto do that with modern contraception. And
(06:23):
that's a market failure that we've beentrying to address help address for fifty years.
So that's our mission statement. Carl, Let's do this. If we
were to give a thirty thousand footview and explain to the layman that might
be introduced to PSI for the firsttime, what would you tell them?
Overall? What you do? Wework with people around the world to provide
(06:44):
them the products and services that canmake them healthier and to strengthen the health
systems where they work so that allthe other actors around are helping them to
lead healthier lives. And that's thethirty thousand foot level. If you give
me five thousand people below that,what does that mean. It means helping
to prevent malaria deaths, particularly forkids in Africa. You know, there's
(07:08):
been a lot of progress in malaria, but still hundreds of thousands of children
die from malaria every year. Wecan prevent that, and you can prevent
that with different tools and different approaches, and we try and be a part
of that. HIV you know,there's a lot of progress in controlling that
epidemic, but we're not in thefinal lapse yet. We still have to
get more treatment to people. Westill have to help people with prevention.
(07:31):
We have to prevent young people frombecoming infected. We're trying to bring products
and services and behavior change communication tothat, and on and on. With
all the different areas of health thatwe work in. It's about helping communities
in the global South, because wework outside the US, be able to
lead healthier lives and work and experiencea health system that's working better for them,
(07:57):
so Carl to give you a littlecontext of my next question. And
several years ago, there was athree part series on Netflix that came out
about Bill Gates's foundation and all thethings he does behind the scenes, and
one of them was having people designa new sewage system for people that didn't
have toilets at all, right,And it was fascinating to watch, and
I was thrilled that people like thatare spending good, hard earned money on
(08:18):
proper things for people worldwide to havethings that we take for granted. So
it was very educational. I thoughtwas cool. And I looked at your
website as I got really excited abouttalking to you and what your organization does
and working worldwide. I was curiousbecause there are so many different layers,
programs and capabilities. How do youdecide what you want to work on,
where the money's allocated, what problemis most important, what's second, third,
(08:41):
and fourth. There's a lot ofbig decisions to make because there are
so many issues out there, Sohow does it all work? Thanks for
putting your finger on that, Dennis. I mean, look, the reality
is for every nonprofit, at leastall the ones that I know, you're
trapped between what you know, theneeds are on the one hand, and
where the money is or where thefinancing is to meet those needs on the
(09:03):
other and there's always a mismatch.Yeah, we work, for example,
and we've worked for a long timewith funding from Bill and Will in the
Gates about improving sanitation and specifically toiletsand market based sanitation approaches to meet that
unmet need. Right in sanitation,that's not been an issue that gets a
(09:26):
lot of attention, although that's changingnow. You know, there isn't a
global fund for sanitation, right Thereisn't a President's Initiative for toilets, you
know, the way there is forHIV or for malaria. So there's a
mismatch between the need and where themoney is. And you know, if
(09:46):
we were as NGO leaders able todecide exactly where to put all the money
that we had, we might makedifferent allocations. But the people who give
us the money. Sometimes it's BillGates, sometimes it's the US taxpayers,
sometimes it's foreign governments. Sometimes it'swealthy individuals or just people who care about
(10:07):
the issues. They all have aview about what they want to fund,
and so they don't just give usa blank check. They're telling us,
we need you to address this problemin this country in this way, and
so it's a negotiation, right.We know what the needs are, it's
not always where the money is.Sure, we try and match those up
as best we can get right.One other thing I learned from the documentary
and I was reading about the otherday is about eradicating polio too. You
(10:30):
know, they're just a lot ofamazing things that are happening out there.
So as we go a little deeperinto this in the different programs, I
would like you if you can't,off the top of your head, get
some context to what we're working withwith some of the issues that you talked
about. A few more if you'dlike to bring up about statistics that you're
looking at, and they might bea little daunting and they might surprise our
audience, But as I was readinga lot of them, you know,
(10:50):
there's a lot of things that arecompletely out of whack when it comes to
server world countries that we rely onas normal services that they don't take for
and don't have, or the smallpercentage of people are using these kind of
things. So can you go oversome statistic sports and just enlighten US in
certain areas. Sure. I mean, you know, the first thing you
would have to say about many ofthe places where we operate is that the
(11:15):
health system either really doesn't exist oronly functions for a really small part of
the population. Look, we canall debate whether or not the US health
system works well for everybody. Itprobably doesn't work as well as it should.
I think we could all agree withthat. But you know, there's
a pretty robust, expensive American healthsystem that just doesn't exist in a lot
of the places where my nonprofit andmany others work. Right, So on
(11:41):
one level, it's like the systemjust doesn't not enough doctors, not enough
healthcare facilities, not enough you know, commodities in those health care facilities when
they do exist. That's the pointnumber one, point number two. Different
things are killing or sickening people aroundthe world. I mean, you know,
we don't think about malaria as arisk about our day to day life.
(12:03):
Were dark although although pay attention tothis because we're now beginning to see,
because of the warming climate, areturn to little episodes of locally transmitted
malaria in the US. We thoughtthis problem was solved decades ago, and
it was yeah, I saw.I saw it pop up in Florida.
Yeah, I saw the news.That's right, that's right. And you
(12:24):
know, the mosquitoes and the parasitethat they carry that causes malaria is pretty
pretty resilient, pretty creative parasite,and it changes in response to every tool
that we've thrown at it over theyears. But in Africa, where I
lived for many years, you know, you sleep under a mosquitoet at night,
and you might take prophylaxis, youknow, you might take a drug
(12:48):
to try and prevent getting malaria.And it's really risky for young kids.
And as I mentioned, hundreds ofthousands of African children in particular are succumbing
every year to malaria. This isa problem we don't even think about here,
but it's a life altering reality inmany parts of Africa. And you
(13:09):
mentioned sanitation. You know, thereare many places around the world the majority
obviously doesn't have access to improved sanitation. Drinking water the way we take for
granted. One answer to that issomething like what we call point of use
water treatment solutions. You know,your water that you're getting from a tap
(13:31):
at or near your home might notbe safe to drink but if you treat
it with a simple solution or aproduct, you can make it safe to
drink hydrochlory right, or working onimproving sanitation through building out a whole infrastructure
for community toilets. Right. Youknow, people who don't have access to
(13:52):
improved sanitation and may practice what's referredto as open defecation. You know,
there are lot behaviors and traditions thatgo into that, but that's really fundamentally
a market failure. There isn't anoffering there so that people have an alternative
to that. So how do wepull together all the people and the pieces
(14:13):
of the infrastructure to make it possiblefor improved sanitation to be at everyone's grasp.
We're a long way from that,which talking billions of people who don't
have access to that. We worryabout things like Flint, Michigan, you
know, where drinking water is taintedin the United States, that's unacceptable.
We should fix that problem everywhere,but outside the US, particularly in the
global South. You know, that'sone of the long list of challenges improved
(14:37):
sanitation, water quality and allowing peoplesometimes to take the measures into their own
hands in their own homes, tobe able to get a more quality water
to drink and avoid illness. Well, it's a great point you bring up,
and I go back to that documentaryagain, and what I also learned
is that when you have these problems, whether they're here in the United States
(15:00):
or they're in third world countries,it pushes our smart people to be even
smarter and better. And you know, we've got ev happening right now thanks
to Elon Musk. He pushed theindustry and everybody's on board. And as
I watched that documentary, I waswatching machines being developed by engineers that don't
necessarily do what Gates wanted them todo, but said, listen, I
(15:20):
want you to think outside the boxand I need I need a system where
we use human waste and we turnit into drinking water. Let's do that.
And they did that. And sothat's what I'm so amazed by what
you and your organization do, becausethe ingenuity and raising the bar and once
again coming up with things that wetake for granted here in North America that
(15:41):
these third world countries don't have isextraordinary. And I know also, Carl,
that you're only hitting the tip ofthe iceberg. The things that you're
working on. But it's just trulyextraordinary. Well, and we're not the
only ones, you know, thereare a lot of great organizations doing a
lot of innovation. Gates has fundeda lot of that other organizations from that
your tax dollars from the little ofthat dentist. And I'll come back to
that point because I think you shouldbe proud of what your tax dollars do.
(16:03):
But you know, you know,sometimes we refer to that as leapfrogging.
Right, So you and I bothgrew up. We grew up in
homes with a fixed line telephone,that's right, and no internet on social
media, that's right. And youknow, I don't know about you,
but we don't have a fixed lineat home anymore. We just use our
cell phone. We do not.But there's a lot of copper cabling that's
(16:25):
you know, was run throughout theUnited States for telephones and other purposes in
many parts of Africa. And Idon't want to over focus on Africa,
but this is certainly true at Africa, you know, widespread use of cell
phones. Now, they never hadfixed lines. They just leap frogged right
over that, right, And thereare other ways that Africa in some ways
is leapfrogging over what we have built. You know, mobile money, the
(16:52):
ability to move money and make paymentsusing your cell phone, and this is
so widespread in many developed in countriesin the Global South. We think it's
an innovation here. We're kind ofimpressed when it all works right. They're
decades ahead of us on that front. Amazing because they didn't have the banking
infrastructure, they didn't have the ATMs, they didn't have all the ability to
(17:14):
move cash around, but they didfigure out how do you sell phones as
a way to transmit money, Andso there's a lot we can learn from
what's happening in the Global South,even as we're trying to help make it
better there. Well, in thehuman condition is adapting, that's what you're
talking about. So it's just amazing. We have only just several minutes left.
But what I do want you totalk about is the future, because
I know with every president's CEO,especially nonprofits, and the way you do
(17:37):
with working with forty plus countries isextraordinary in itself, but you're always looking
for the future and what's next tothat five to ten year plan. And
I know that you can't keep upwith technology because it's so fluid and it's
moving so quickly. But as youshare with our audience and we get to
know a little bit more about PSI, CAURL, what is in the future
for you and your team, andwhat are you working on that you're excited
about? Right, We feel likewe're onto. We have a good sort
(18:03):
of strategic approach to what we're doingthat we think is the culmination of all
these decades in work, which wesimply sum up as a consumer powered approach.
Right, Think about what you experiencedover the last couple of years,
Dennis, I bet you took ahome COVID test, absolutely, and I've
taken a lot of them, right, and we all understood what it meant
to be able to look after ourown health without going to a doctor's office,
(18:27):
without going to see a nurse,without getting a prescription. We could
do a lot of that at homewith our own technology that we could acquire,
right, a simple test that wouldtell us whether we were sick with
the virus or not. That consumerpowered approach, putting more decisions and an
ability to control your own healthcare directlyin your hands. We think that's exciting
(18:49):
we think that's transformational. Actually,that consumer powered approach that leap frogs over
many other barriers. We see thatas kind of a red thread are strategy
going forward, and we're excited aboutthat. You mentioned technology. Yeah,
there's huge innovation on the frontiers oftechnology, but digital, as I talked
about already, you know, theinnovations that we see in places where we
(19:11):
work in the Global South, inreally what we think of as poor and
vulnerable parts of the world, butreally innovative in terms of digital approaches.
All of the digital innovations for myown company is based out of Nairobi.
We've got, you know, adozens of Kenyon digital developers working for us
(19:33):
that are coming up with digital healthsolutions that we apply all across our global
network. So there's real innovation inthe South. We're excited about that.
And you know, Dennis, beforeI know we run out of time,
I mentioned your tax dollars, andI do want to make this point.
A lot of what we do andmany other organizations like mine, is funded
by American taxpayers through organizations like USAIDor the Center for Disease Control or even
(20:00):
the Department of Defense. Right,those tax dollars and if you think of
that as part of the overall fundingthat goes for the international affairs work of
the US government, which is everythingthat organizations like mine do, everything that
the State Department does, everything thatthe Treasury Department does, all our contributions
to the UN peacekeeping, contributions tothe World Bank, Multi ledl development banks,
(20:26):
all of that is one percent ofthe federal budget. All of that
is one percent of the federal budget. It's a lot of money in absolute
terms. It's really good value forthe American taxpayer. And I hope that
everyone who is a listener can understandand be proud of what their investments in
global wellness and health and stability andpeace and prosperity, what they're getting for
(20:48):
those investments, because it's impressive.It's impressive. Well, thank you for
sharing all that, Carl, Beforewe let you go. This series is
based on leaders, entrepreneurs and peoplethat are forward thinking, that take chances.
And I'd be remiss if I didn'task you because of your incredible background.
You've worked with presidents, you workedwith really top leaders. You're obviously
(21:12):
a world traveler. You've done alot, and there's still more to go.
But I'd like to know, andI'm sure the future entrepreneurs and the
current CEOs that are listening would loveto know. When it comes to all
the great people that you had thechance to meet and get to know,
and that you adopted some of thatleadership into your own leadership skills, what
(21:32):
would you like to impart to theaudience as far as what you've learned from
other people that you've ingreened in yourown way that you lead and that you
think other people, depending on whatthey do for living, should lead.
Thanks Dennis. I think there arethree elements for successful leadership in any walk
of life that I can imagine atleast right now. One is empathy,
One is listening, which is reallyhard actually, and one is communication.
(21:56):
Right. I know, I nevercommunity, I can never communicate to much
in my role. I'm always tryingto communicate more. I know I can
always be a better listener, andI really respect those who are skilled at
listening. And if you're a leaderwho shows up without empathy these days,
I don't think you're going to havea lot of followers. So empathy,
listening, and communication are key elementsof leadership for me. Great advice and
(22:18):
I'm good. Agree more with you, Okay. If anybody is looking at
a career, would like to partnerup with you or just find out more
about PSI. What's the website,Carl? Thanks www dot PSI dot org.
We publish all of our job openingsthere. We're always hiring. It's
a place where people can go tolearn more about our work. It's a
place where people can go to donate, and we thank everyone who knows about
(22:41):
us, and we encourage everyone who'sinterested to learn more about us and to
find a way to be engaged inthese great events around the world. Well,
Carl, I've thoroughly enjoyed This conversationin twenty minutes doesn't do justice for
all the amazing thing you and yourteam do at PSI. But I can't
thank you enough. Continued success,stay safe, and thank you so much
for your learning us on CEOs.You should know, we really do appreciate
(23:02):
it. Thank you, Dennis.Thank you. Our community partner, M
and T Bank supports CEOs, youshould know as part of their ongoing commitment
to building strong communities, and thatstarts by backing the businesses within them.
As a bank for communities, Mand T believes in dedicating time, talent,
and resources to help local businesses thrivebecause when businesses succeed, our communities succeed.
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