September 4, 2025 • 24 mins
Florida is leading the nation in reducing recidivism and other states are taking notice. There is a reality many struggle with ... more than 20,000 inmates will become returning citizens each year. Will they be prepared for success outside the walls or not? One of many topics discuss with Ricky Dixon, Secretary of The Florida Department of Corrections (BTW: It's called Corrections, not Prisons).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Here it is. We are now into the third hour
of the morning show with Preston Scott, and it's the
final hole of the show at least for today Thursday.
And Jose's over there in Studio one A. I am
here in Studio one B, and I'm pleased to have
with me. I'm gonna go ahead and say it a friend.
He's a friend at this point. Now, I've over the years,
(00:24):
I've had a bit of an evolution. I am obviously
a very conservative minded person and absolutely believe tough on
crime and all of that. But over the last probably
ten to fifteen years, I've come to recognize some realities
and this gentleman's helped me to learn a lot of
(00:44):
things about corrections and about the prison system and what
works and what doesn't work. And I'm really honored that
he's a friend. Ricky Dixon is the secretary of the
Florida Department of Corrections and joins me in studio this hour.
How are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Proud to be a friend too, and glad to be
with you.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I bet you hear that that people just kind of
get to a place where they're going. Yeah, I was wrong.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
About some things all the time.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What do you think is the biggest misconception about your
line of work.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think it depends on which side of the isle.
You know, Folks wrong we I think we have to
do a better job in the profession of educating the public.
You know, we deal with the families of of inmates
and their perspectives about the systems. We deal with the
extreme tough on crime crowd and their perspective of the system,
(01:42):
the victims of crime of their perspectives. But we we
have to blend all of those, you know, experiences and
try to do the best job we can at explaining
them all the perspectives to the individuals associated with the system.
I'll give you an example. The you know, I'm very
conservative as well. I'm very tough on crime minded. I
(02:03):
think that it's a lot like raising kids. Being heavy
handed somewhat so to speak, causes behavior change in positive
ways in society and within the prison system. But not
to realize that, as I've shared before on this program,
that eighty five percent of them we'll be back out
on the street one day, and just to pride ourselves
on the public safety perspective in the sense that we
(02:26):
keep them behind the fence in clear count every day.
That's not enough. If we really care about public safety,
we have to put out a better product, a more
educated individual, a you know, hopefully one that doesn't come
back to prison and be a burden on society but
contributes to it. And most of all, as I've shared before,
when they come back, there's usually a victim associated with that.
(02:47):
So that's the message to our correctional staff to those
in that crowd. Now the others, you know, the inmate
families and those I certainly understand their perspective. They're a
victim as well in some aspects when they're their loved
ones go to go to prison, But it's a I
always want to represent the correctional staff as well and
(03:09):
remind people what they deal with. They they don't so
many people don't understand the population and the complexity and
the and the violence and the problems that happened down
in those settings. We have a volunteer population who are
amazing and educators. They see those individuals at the best
of times in the chapel and education buildings, not at
two am in a housing unit, when they're in congregate settings,
(03:31):
and they're even in some cases more violent because they're
compressed together with other other men, and so they don't
get to see that aspect and that that part of
this and understand why correctional staffs can sometimes be a
little jaded in dealing with the population. So trying and
trying to, I guess, bring all that in for landing
and make sure that everybody understands the holistic way we
(03:55):
should view the profession with respect to to all those
attitude dudes and opinions about our system.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And it's a NonStop triage system that's underway. And perhaps
that's a term that might not apply, but the way
that I apply it in this setting is when an
inmate comes in, you've got to kind of ascertain, Okay,
what am I dealing with here? Your staff has to
figure out does this person what kind of attitude do
they bring it into the facility. But yet that can
(04:24):
change in six months, it can change in a year,
it can change in five years. So there's this constant
need to reevaluate everybody that's in the population inside the
walls of a correction facility because some of them, quite frankly,
they kind of have an epiphany and they realize, yeah,
this wasn't working. I got to do things differently that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What you're describing is what I'm probably most proud of.
One of the things I'm most proud of about our
system that I think we've done wrong for decades, and
I think most systems don't get this right. We've just
viewed a prison as a prison, and we've had not
only different custody levels in these prisons from the highest
to the lowest, but different behavior patterns in these prisons
all mixed together. So you take the guys that really
(05:07):
want to improve and work on self betterment, and they're
mixed in with people who absolutely do not. So in
recent years, we've done a much better job of categorizing
these individuals into the ones that want to be around
like minded folks that want to concentrate on education, religious programming,
whatever it may be, and isolating those that would cause
(05:29):
problems or distract or assoult others. That's trying to do better.
Now that comes with some complexities and some danger levels
that you have to mitigate by good population management strategies,
but just that categorization has helped us so much in
getting like minded individuals together that can really concentrate on
self betterment.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Florida has found its way to becoming a bit of
an example setting state when it comes to corrections. What
has happened and why is that?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, we set out early on several years ago to really,
with a great deal of intent, try to become a
national leader in corrections. I've been going to national conferences
for over ten years.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Can I ask you to define what you think that
means to say a leader? What does that mean in
that field?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Everything from innovation to best practices, to the things that
the metrics that would identify a systems doing well to
stand out in those areas. And we knew that relationships
were important, and we focus certainly on relationships here in
the state Shares's associations to our cent and House members,
and I think we've done a better, much better job
(06:43):
in state and that's benefited us tremendously. But nationally and
as well, we have really started engaging with other states
to see where we don't need to reinvent the wheel,
and we've picked up some really good practices from other
states as well. But we've engaged ourselves with the American
Coreational Association, the Correctional Leaders Association, which is my counterparts
(07:04):
from around the country and When I would go to
those conferences ten years ago, people would literally pat us
on the back and say, so sorry for the troubles
you're having. In Florida, we had a bad reputation, not
of our owndoing. I think it was just the resource
deprived to such an extent that it was reflecting not
just in our state, but people recognized it. It's exactly
(07:27):
the opposite. Now we have people coming from all over
the country to Florida and certain parts of the world
to look at how we do business, which is very
flattering to our many women that do this and our leaders.
And we've been able to share a lot of best
practices around the country at these conferences and again with
so much interest that people are coming to kind of
(07:48):
see the way we do business, innovation, rolling out new
ways to do business. I'm really excited about where this
profession's going over I say five to ten years and
maybe two to three with this, how rapidly artificial intelligence
and things like that is going to impact our agency.
We have to proceed with caution with with that those
technologies comes risks, but we're in the risk reward business
(08:10):
and we have to really evaluate what benefit we get
versus potential risk in the system. And I think we're
already employee utilizing some technology that I think is going
to change the game. And corrections.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Corrections obviously is the underscored word here. It's not just
about incarcerating dangerous people. It's about helping those that are
going to be returned to society be corrected and to
have a path towards success. In preference, sorry, in ahead
(08:43):
of our next segment, what would be the one thing
that you think is singlely the most important thing that
you're working towards to change that outcome.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, we talk often about the programs excuse me, and
the education and all that, and it's important, but before you,
before you carry out those functions, you have to identify
risk and needs. You have to evaluate the individual to
see where the best use of your resources are. And
so that when I speak of innovation, that's one area
we're improving. We take in twenty seven thousand inmates a year,
(09:15):
twenty five to twenty seven thousand in our system. That's
a lot of deep and we have to evaluate every
one of them, and we have a human being sitting
in front of them, each one of those at our
reception centers interviewing them and we've just applied some technology
they'll do that through AI and we've we're finding we
believe that the individual will maybe even speak to the
(09:35):
artificial intelligence system better and more honestly than an individual. Now,
our human assets are tremendous and will never they'll never
be out of.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
We Well, they have to evaluate that, have to evaluate that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But you could argue, well, we should have a human
being doing that. But twenty seven thousand, I go back
to the numbers. How is the quality control in that
when the monotony of doing that day after day with
so we think we're going to get better results. We're
waiting into it, but excited about opportunities such as that.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
You know in listening to the program, especially you know
business owners out there. As the secretary said, there are
a lot of men and women coming out of the
correction system in the state, and they are many of
them really wanting to be employed and wanting to have
a chance at developing skills and a career. But you're
(10:33):
working before they come out, trying to help them talk
through some of the shifts that you have have tried
to lead the state in inside of corrections Before someone
gets out to better prepare them.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Sure, just again, just to recap the numbers, eighty five
percent will be out and about twenty seven thousand a year.
I said, come in, but they also that many go
back out into the community. So if I were an employer,
I would be consider that. It's it's a large number
and potential potential employees. More and more employers are recognizing that,
(11:09):
and we are trying to take advantage of that of
that as well to not only help the individual be successful,
but again all that contributes to them not coming back
to prison, which lowers victimization. Two key ingredients our housing
and have a house. You need a job, and you
need it very fast, not a month later, two months later.
You need you need to be ready when you come
(11:29):
out and have a plan. So we're working with a
great deal of intent to make sure that we help
those individuals have a plan and work with the employers.
One we're proud of the thanks to the governor and
he's been amazing in so many ways, and the legislature
and one of the things they've done is recognized that
we needed to reduce and mate idleness. So we've received
over three hundred positions which is not easy to do
(11:51):
in state government to add positions, but there's a there's
a risk. Returnal investment is tremendous. So we have over
three hundred new educators career in technical ged prep those
kind of positions across the state. That's making a remarkable difference.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Because it's not just about the men and the women
coming out if they if they recommit, there's another set
of victims. There's another set of trials, there's another set
of filling the blank.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And a lot of a lot of money associated with
that whole. Yeah, judicial process, so correct, but absolutely, And
then what we're doing too it no cost of state
government that we're proud of. And you're familiar with this
with your former position with the Florida Foundation for Correctional
Excellence with that group, with other groups both internally, we
are reaching out to employers across the state and as
(12:39):
I've shared before, we're telling them not only will we
identify individuals that's potentially moving to your area that might
be a good fit for your job, but we will
move them to you now, near to a prison near
you now, and we will allow you to come in
and offer training where they're ready to go to work
day one. So this is catching on A ten or
fifteen years ago, it would not have sold, I don't
(12:59):
think as well because people had you know, they shot
away a little bit from those coming out of prisons
with records, but they're with the job market the way
it is now and the success that so many businesses
have had. We get stories all the time where these
employees that leave us turn out to be better in
some cases than the ones they hire from from other places.
So many of them are so hungry for a job,
(13:22):
they really want another shot. They've better a win win,
It's absolutely and it's it's a win win.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I think sometimes, you know, we talk about art copying life.
I think sometimes people have this idea, and I think
at times it's been accurate. You see a movie that
involves a prison in any way, shape or form. The
prisoner gets out and the door slams behind him and
they wish them well, and that's that, and it's sort
of symbolized I think a long standing traditional idea the
(13:51):
prison system, the correction system stops right there. You have
recognized and you've talked about and I've heard you talk
about it with your stay that it can't stop there.
It has to go beyond the walls of the institutions.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
It does have to be prepared in in advance. I
need after care. And speaking of after care, one thing
we're very proud of is we have just redesigned our
re entry center concept. We only have a handful of
re entry centers in the state, and mathematically that is
just not a winning solution. We have to treat every
(14:27):
prison as a re entry center, because they are. We
release inmates every week from every single facility in Florida,
but we really haven't been designed or set up for
that to be successful. We have these few release centers
release centers that hold about two thousand individuals, so we're
not even coming close to really being effective with those
(14:49):
that are getting out. So what we've done is we
have or working toward proportionately providing enough beds in each
geographic area to get individuals back closer to home than
eighteen twelve to eighteen months of release. We don't like
individuals living at home their entire sentence. There's bad things
that happen when when that happens, but there's a there's
a significant reward to getting them back near release and
(15:13):
one of the primary advantages is working with our volunteer
community that come in and mentor those individuals. So, now
what we've done instead of a mom and pop or
some you know, church group or civic organization come in,
coming in and mentoring an individual that's going to get
out five hours away right there, they're establishing relationships with
(15:34):
individuals that's getting out in their town where they're going
to be so they can help with reintegration into church
and the civic organizations, into housing and the jobs. So
just a lot smarter way to effectively utilize the amazing
volunteers that we have throughout our system.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
We've talked about some of the innovations, some of the
things that you've managed to move the state in the
direction of what are some things left to do? What's
on the to do list? If you've got the sticky note,
what's tops on that list?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
We we've got to continue to deal. You know, the
population is going to grow that that's no doubt of that.
As a population in Florida grows, our population in the
prison system will will grow as well. We're up about
nine thousand inmates.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And that's just hard math, right, That's just hard.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's just hard math. And that's consistent with every state
in the nation, and it's and it's in Florida. It's
you know that there's been a massive growth in population
and we see that in our in our system as well.
Some of that growth has been post COVID. You know,
we took a we had a downturn after COVID. The
population is rebounding, also rebounding with a with a tougher individual.
(16:40):
It appears that the courts are tree adding the lower
custody level inmates we used to get and so we
are getting more violent inmate and the longer term in
made we're dealing with healthcare issues like never before, the
aging population that we're dealing with, the mental health issues.
So all of that is to be considered in years
and decades to come, and we're already looking out at
how we how we best manage that. We're going to
(17:02):
have to find more effective, more innovative, and smarter ways
to manage the populations. We don't overburdened state government, but
there's going to have to be resources address such as
physical plant you know, additions to accommodate that, whether that's
you know, new prisons in the future, or or we
do have quite a few facilities now in locations that
(17:22):
we've had difficulty staffing. Thanks to the governor and the
pay increases, we are rebounding. That's that's the reason we're
recovering in those areas. So that's helping.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
You mentioned the population and its growth. I'm curious is
there a nationwide there appears to be less attention on
mental health and the need for what we're traditionally mental
health hospitals where someone could be incarcerated but be treated
for their mental health issues. We know that the homeless
(17:54):
population and a majority of them suffer mental health issues
and eventually a lot of them end up in the system.
Are we needing more mental health hospitals or are mental
health hospitals in the future just going to be part
of an institution of prison.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I think they are now in large part. We're kind
of the mental health institutions of thirty forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Is that best practice?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I'm not sure I can speak to that. I think
that could. Many of them could be served in a setting,
you know, external to us. But the ones we get
have been convicted of a crime, so it's appropriate that
they are where they are, and we have a very
robust and an effective mental health program. I'm very, very
proud of our team and the way they manage that
difficult population. A lot of that happens down in Lake
(18:39):
County at our facility, and they do very well managing those.
But along those lines, one thing we've got to address
is hospitalization and individuals going out to hospitals. It's extremely
it's very expensive, not just from a medical cost standpoint,
it's one of the most risky things we do, taking
(18:59):
and convict felling out to a hospital. The way we
have done that for years is they're all they're in
traditional hospitals up and down the state, next to mom
and pop. Not ideal, and for every individual we send out,
we send two officers with that individual, So it's very costly.
We're about ninety three percent in overtime costs associated with
(19:20):
outside medical so very proud of this. We are working
to put some medical modular units behind the fence and
starting to do more and more services behind our fence,
bringing doctors in instead of taking the individuals outside. Okay,
so we're going to have some twenty and forty man
infirmaries and hospital locations in behind our fence that we
(19:44):
can supervise with two security officers as opposed to eighty
if that's forty in a hospital. So again smarta ways
to do business. A little bit of upfront costs, but
the return on investment is significant.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Final segment were talking about how time just flies, and
I was sharing with the secretary this topic is just
too important.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It just is.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It impacts every single person listening. And if you don't
live in the Sunshine State, trust me, it impacts you
wherever you live, because this is an issue in every state.
It's just a matter of how the issue is being tackled,
and the issue is returning inmates to the population in
(20:28):
a successful manner where we reduce the likelihood of recidivism.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You've talked a little bit this morning about the staff
and you know Yeoman's work. I mean, this is hard
to put your arms around corrections in any state, let
alone as divers as state, as large as state as
Florida is. But those people are very important at seeing success.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
They are could not be prouder of the staff in
this state that works in the Department of Corrections and
the culture of our state. We in the past have
been a sized about our culture, but I say a lot.
I'm proud of our culture. Our culture keeps people safe,
and they have the staff have bought into the mission
so well. I can't say that was always the case
decades ago, but I can't say that every the one
(21:15):
percent of the individuals that work for us have bought in,
but the vast majority get it and they understand why
we do what we do. I give a tremendous amount
of credit to Hope Gartman. She is our assistant Deputy
Secretary over institutions and her job is primarily focused on security,
and I used to be in that job and I
probably too much focused on that without enough focus on
(21:36):
the re entry aspect. But the way she leads that
team and make sure that we do the things we
have to do as it relates to security, but constantly
reminds them of our obligation to focus on the re
entry and reducing idleness. Amy Frazel is a head of
our programs in re entry, and the relationship the two
(21:57):
of them have to respect each other's mission and make
sure that it marries up that it's complementary of our
entire goal is phenomenal. Again, couldn't be more proud of
the staff at the line level, but the leadership I
don't talk about enough either. I've got Richard coming for
thirty nine year veteran with the Department of Corrections as
Deputy Secretary and just has such a heart and a
(22:18):
maturity about him and a wisdom that makes my job easy.
Our chief of staff is Tim Fitzgerald, he's a retired
sergeant major in the military. And Joe Winkler, as you know,
Leed's Community Correction So never seen this kind of team
at the department. I've worked with a lot of teams
over a lot of years, but just such a dedicated
(22:39):
team that doesn't concentrate solely on their area of responsibility,
but has the greater mission at heart. And so feel
very fortunate to get to work with this people every day.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
To businesses out there, there are certain industries that seem
to gravitate towards giving opportunities to returning citizens as we
like to call them, But the reality is there are
a lot of business owners out there that are looking
for employees. I've thought it's the best job market for
people coming out of out of corrections that I can
(23:13):
remember in my lifetime. They're just jobs everywhere. What would
you say to a prospective employer.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So I would not hesitate to give them a chance,
so that you know, depending on what you do and
the liability associated with it, that the information about their
past is very you know, it's very relevant and very relevant.
You can see that and evaluate the past histories. But
so many of them have proven successful. It's relatively very
few that get an education and get a job that
(23:40):
they come back. In fact, let me say this, we
have talking about success. We have one of the lowest
recidivism rates in the United States twenty one percent, where
like number three or two, or three or four in
that category. It kind of fluctuates back and forth. At
one time we had over a thirty percent recidivism rate,
and that is the percentage of inmates that return to
prison after three years of release. That's something to be
(24:02):
proud of when you talk about leading the nation. That's
one of those metrics that means we're doing something right.
The programming, the education, getting them employment, it's having an
impact and it's showing in the statistics.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So a job matters. And what I'll tell you, friends
is if you just email me, I'll direct you to
the right places if you're interested. In learning more of
how you can take part. Mister secretary. Thanks, I appreciate
you coming in.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Ricky Dixon with me this morning forty seven minutes past
the hour, the Secretary of Corrections for the Sunshine State
and my guest here in the Morning Show with Preston
Scott
Here it is. We are now into the third hour
of the morning show with Preston Scott, and it's the
final hole of the show at least for today Thursday.
And Jose's over there in Studio one A. I am
here in Studio one B, and I'm pleased to have
with me. I'm gonna go ahead and say it a friend.
He's a friend at this point. Now, I've over the years,
(00:24):
I've had a bit of an evolution. I am obviously
a very conservative minded person and absolutely believe tough on
crime and all of that. But over the last probably
ten to fifteen years, I've come to recognize some realities
and this gentleman's helped me to learn a lot of
(00:44):
things about corrections and about the prison system and what
works and what doesn't work. And I'm really honored that
he's a friend. Ricky Dixon is the secretary of the
Florida Department of Corrections and joins me in studio this hour.
How are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Proud to be a friend too, and glad to be
with you.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I bet you hear that that people just kind of
get to a place where they're going. Yeah, I was wrong.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
About some things all the time.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What do you think is the biggest misconception about your
line of work.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think it depends on which side of the isle.
You know, Folks wrong we I think we have to
do a better job in the profession of educating the public.
You know, we deal with the families of of inmates
and their perspectives about the systems. We deal with the
extreme tough on crime crowd and their perspective of the system,
(01:42):
the victims of crime of their perspectives. But we we
have to blend all of those, you know, experiences and
try to do the best job we can at explaining
them all the perspectives to the individuals associated with the system.
I'll give you an example. The you know, I'm very
conservative as well. I'm very tough on crime minded. I
(02:03):
think that it's a lot like raising kids. Being heavy
handed somewhat so to speak, causes behavior change in positive
ways in society and within the prison system. But not
to realize that, as I've shared before on this program,
that eighty five percent of them we'll be back out
on the street one day, and just to pride ourselves
on the public safety perspective in the sense that we
(02:26):
keep them behind the fence in clear count every day.
That's not enough. If we really care about public safety,
we have to put out a better product, a more
educated individual, a you know, hopefully one that doesn't come
back to prison and be a burden on society but
contributes to it. And most of all, as I've shared before,
when they come back, there's usually a victim associated with that.
(02:47):
So that's the message to our correctional staff to those
in that crowd. Now the others, you know, the inmate
families and those I certainly understand their perspective. They're a
victim as well in some aspects when they're their loved
ones go to go to prison, But it's a I
always want to represent the correctional staff as well and
(03:09):
remind people what they deal with. They they don't so
many people don't understand the population and the complexity and
the and the violence and the problems that happened down
in those settings. We have a volunteer population who are
amazing and educators. They see those individuals at the best
of times in the chapel and education buildings, not at
two am in a housing unit, when they're in congregate settings,
(03:31):
and they're even in some cases more violent because they're
compressed together with other other men, and so they don't
get to see that aspect and that that part of
this and understand why correctional staffs can sometimes be a
little jaded in dealing with the population. So trying and
trying to, I guess, bring all that in for landing
and make sure that everybody understands the holistic way we
(03:55):
should view the profession with respect to to all those
attitude dudes and opinions about our system.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And it's a NonStop triage system that's underway. And perhaps
that's a term that might not apply, but the way
that I apply it in this setting is when an
inmate comes in, you've got to kind of ascertain, Okay,
what am I dealing with here? Your staff has to
figure out does this person what kind of attitude do
they bring it into the facility. But yet that can
(04:24):
change in six months, it can change in a year,
it can change in five years. So there's this constant
need to reevaluate everybody that's in the population inside the
walls of a correction facility because some of them, quite frankly,
they kind of have an epiphany and they realize, yeah,
this wasn't working. I got to do things differently that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What you're describing is what I'm probably most proud of.
One of the things I'm most proud of about our
system that I think we've done wrong for decades, and
I think most systems don't get this right. We've just
viewed a prison as a prison, and we've had not
only different custody levels in these prisons from the highest
to the lowest, but different behavior patterns in these prisons
all mixed together. So you take the guys that really
(05:07):
want to improve and work on self betterment, and they're
mixed in with people who absolutely do not. So in
recent years, we've done a much better job of categorizing
these individuals into the ones that want to be around
like minded folks that want to concentrate on education, religious programming,
whatever it may be, and isolating those that would cause
(05:29):
problems or distract or assoult others. That's trying to do better.
Now that comes with some complexities and some danger levels
that you have to mitigate by good population management strategies,
but just that categorization has helped us so much in
getting like minded individuals together that can really concentrate on
self betterment.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Florida has found its way to becoming a bit of
an example setting state when it comes to corrections. What
has happened and why is that?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, we set out early on several years ago to really,
with a great deal of intent, try to become a
national leader in corrections. I've been going to national conferences
for over ten years.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Can I ask you to define what you think that
means to say a leader? What does that mean in
that field?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Everything from innovation to best practices, to the things that
the metrics that would identify a systems doing well to
stand out in those areas. And we knew that relationships
were important, and we focus certainly on relationships here in
the state Shares's associations to our cent and House members,
and I think we've done a better, much better job
(06:43):
in state and that's benefited us tremendously. But nationally and
as well, we have really started engaging with other states
to see where we don't need to reinvent the wheel,
and we've picked up some really good practices from other
states as well. But we've engaged ourselves with the American
Coreational Association, the Correctional Leaders Association, which is my counterparts
(07:04):
from around the country and When I would go to
those conferences ten years ago, people would literally pat us
on the back and say, so sorry for the troubles
you're having. In Florida, we had a bad reputation, not
of our owndoing. I think it was just the resource
deprived to such an extent that it was reflecting not
just in our state, but people recognized it. It's exactly
(07:27):
the opposite. Now we have people coming from all over
the country to Florida and certain parts of the world
to look at how we do business, which is very
flattering to our many women that do this and our leaders.
And we've been able to share a lot of best
practices around the country at these conferences and again with
so much interest that people are coming to kind of
(07:48):
see the way we do business, innovation, rolling out new
ways to do business. I'm really excited about where this
profession's going over I say five to ten years and
maybe two to three with this, how rapidly artificial intelligence
and things like that is going to impact our agency.
We have to proceed with caution with with that those
technologies comes risks, but we're in the risk reward business
(08:10):
and we have to really evaluate what benefit we get
versus potential risk in the system. And I think we're
already employee utilizing some technology that I think is going
to change the game. And corrections.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Corrections obviously is the underscored word here. It's not just
about incarcerating dangerous people. It's about helping those that are
going to be returned to society be corrected and to
have a path towards success. In preference, sorry, in ahead
(08:43):
of our next segment, what would be the one thing
that you think is singlely the most important thing that
you're working towards to change that outcome.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, we talk often about the programs excuse me, and
the education and all that, and it's important, but before you,
before you carry out those functions, you have to identify
risk and needs. You have to evaluate the individual to
see where the best use of your resources are. And
so that when I speak of innovation, that's one area
we're improving. We take in twenty seven thousand inmates a year,
(09:15):
twenty five to twenty seven thousand in our system. That's
a lot of deep and we have to evaluate every
one of them, and we have a human being sitting
in front of them, each one of those at our
reception centers interviewing them and we've just applied some technology
they'll do that through AI and we've we're finding we
believe that the individual will maybe even speak to the
(09:35):
artificial intelligence system better and more honestly than an individual. Now,
our human assets are tremendous and will never they'll never
be out of.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
We Well, they have to evaluate that, have to evaluate that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But you could argue, well, we should have a human
being doing that. But twenty seven thousand, I go back
to the numbers. How is the quality control in that
when the monotony of doing that day after day with
so we think we're going to get better results. We're
waiting into it, but excited about opportunities such as that.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
You know in listening to the program, especially you know
business owners out there. As the secretary said, there are
a lot of men and women coming out of the
correction system in the state, and they are many of
them really wanting to be employed and wanting to have
a chance at developing skills and a career. But you're
(10:33):
working before they come out, trying to help them talk
through some of the shifts that you have have tried
to lead the state in inside of corrections Before someone
gets out to better prepare them.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Sure, just again, just to recap the numbers, eighty five
percent will be out and about twenty seven thousand a year.
I said, come in, but they also that many go
back out into the community. So if I were an employer,
I would be consider that. It's it's a large number
and potential potential employees. More and more employers are recognizing that,
(11:09):
and we are trying to take advantage of that of
that as well to not only help the individual be successful,
but again all that contributes to them not coming back
to prison, which lowers victimization. Two key ingredients our housing
and have a house. You need a job, and you
need it very fast, not a month later, two months later.
You need you need to be ready when you come
(11:29):
out and have a plan. So we're working with a
great deal of intent to make sure that we help
those individuals have a plan and work with the employers.
One we're proud of the thanks to the governor and
he's been amazing in so many ways, and the legislature
and one of the things they've done is recognized that
we needed to reduce and mate idleness. So we've received
over three hundred positions which is not easy to do
(11:51):
in state government to add positions, but there's a there's
a risk. Returnal investment is tremendous. So we have over
three hundred new educators career in technical ged prep those
kind of positions across the state. That's making a remarkable difference.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Because it's not just about the men and the women
coming out if they if they recommit, there's another set
of victims. There's another set of trials, there's another set
of filling the blank.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And a lot of a lot of money associated with
that whole. Yeah, judicial process, so correct, but absolutely, And
then what we're doing too it no cost of state
government that we're proud of. And you're familiar with this
with your former position with the Florida Foundation for Correctional
Excellence with that group, with other groups both internally, we
are reaching out to employers across the state and as
(12:39):
I've shared before, we're telling them not only will we
identify individuals that's potentially moving to your area that might
be a good fit for your job, but we will
move them to you now, near to a prison near
you now, and we will allow you to come in
and offer training where they're ready to go to work
day one. So this is catching on A ten or
fifteen years ago, it would not have sold, I don't
(12:59):
think as well because people had you know, they shot
away a little bit from those coming out of prisons
with records, but they're with the job market the way
it is now and the success that so many businesses
have had. We get stories all the time where these
employees that leave us turn out to be better in
some cases than the ones they hire from from other places.
So many of them are so hungry for a job,
(13:22):
they really want another shot. They've better a win win,
It's absolutely and it's it's a win win.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I think sometimes, you know, we talk about art copying life.
I think sometimes people have this idea, and I think
at times it's been accurate. You see a movie that
involves a prison in any way, shape or form. The
prisoner gets out and the door slams behind him and
they wish them well, and that's that, and it's sort
of symbolized I think a long standing traditional idea the
(13:51):
prison system, the correction system stops right there. You have
recognized and you've talked about and I've heard you talk
about it with your stay that it can't stop there.
It has to go beyond the walls of the institutions.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
It does have to be prepared in in advance. I
need after care. And speaking of after care, one thing
we're very proud of is we have just redesigned our
re entry center concept. We only have a handful of
re entry centers in the state, and mathematically that is
just not a winning solution. We have to treat every
(14:27):
prison as a re entry center, because they are. We
release inmates every week from every single facility in Florida,
but we really haven't been designed or set up for
that to be successful. We have these few release centers
release centers that hold about two thousand individuals, so we're
not even coming close to really being effective with those
(14:49):
that are getting out. So what we've done is we
have or working toward proportionately providing enough beds in each
geographic area to get individuals back closer to home than
eighteen twelve to eighteen months of release. We don't like
individuals living at home their entire sentence. There's bad things
that happen when when that happens, but there's a there's
a significant reward to getting them back near release and
(15:13):
one of the primary advantages is working with our volunteer
community that come in and mentor those individuals. So, now
what we've done instead of a mom and pop or
some you know, church group or civic organization come in,
coming in and mentoring an individual that's going to get
out five hours away right there, they're establishing relationships with
(15:34):
individuals that's getting out in their town where they're going
to be so they can help with reintegration into church
and the civic organizations, into housing and the jobs. So
just a lot smarter way to effectively utilize the amazing
volunteers that we have throughout our system.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
We've talked about some of the innovations, some of the
things that you've managed to move the state in the
direction of what are some things left to do? What's
on the to do list? If you've got the sticky note,
what's tops on that list?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
We we've got to continue to deal. You know, the
population is going to grow that that's no doubt of that.
As a population in Florida grows, our population in the
prison system will will grow as well. We're up about
nine thousand inmates.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And that's just hard math, right, That's just hard.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's just hard math. And that's consistent with every state
in the nation, and it's and it's in Florida. It's
you know that there's been a massive growth in population
and we see that in our in our system as well.
Some of that growth has been post COVID. You know,
we took a we had a downturn after COVID. The
population is rebounding, also rebounding with a with a tougher individual.
(16:40):
It appears that the courts are tree adding the lower
custody level inmates we used to get and so we
are getting more violent inmate and the longer term in
made we're dealing with healthcare issues like never before, the
aging population that we're dealing with, the mental health issues.
So all of that is to be considered in years
and decades to come, and we're already looking out at
how we how we best manage that. We're going to
(17:02):
have to find more effective, more innovative, and smarter ways
to manage the populations. We don't overburdened state government, but
there's going to have to be resources address such as
physical plant you know, additions to accommodate that, whether that's
you know, new prisons in the future, or or we
do have quite a few facilities now in locations that
(17:22):
we've had difficulty staffing. Thanks to the governor and the
pay increases, we are rebounding. That's that's the reason we're
recovering in those areas. So that's helping.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
You mentioned the population and its growth. I'm curious is
there a nationwide there appears to be less attention on
mental health and the need for what we're traditionally mental
health hospitals where someone could be incarcerated but be treated
for their mental health issues. We know that the homeless
(17:54):
population and a majority of them suffer mental health issues
and eventually a lot of them end up in the system.
Are we needing more mental health hospitals or are mental
health hospitals in the future just going to be part
of an institution of prison.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I think they are now in large part. We're kind
of the mental health institutions of thirty forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Is that best practice?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I'm not sure I can speak to that. I think
that could. Many of them could be served in a setting,
you know, external to us. But the ones we get
have been convicted of a crime, so it's appropriate that
they are where they are, and we have a very
robust and an effective mental health program. I'm very, very
proud of our team and the way they manage that
difficult population. A lot of that happens down in Lake
(18:39):
County at our facility, and they do very well managing those.
But along those lines, one thing we've got to address
is hospitalization and individuals going out to hospitals. It's extremely
it's very expensive, not just from a medical cost standpoint,
it's one of the most risky things we do, taking
(18:59):
and convict felling out to a hospital. The way we
have done that for years is they're all they're in
traditional hospitals up and down the state, next to mom
and pop. Not ideal, and for every individual we send out,
we send two officers with that individual, So it's very costly.
We're about ninety three percent in overtime costs associated with
(19:20):
outside medical so very proud of this. We are working
to put some medical modular units behind the fence and
starting to do more and more services behind our fence,
bringing doctors in instead of taking the individuals outside. Okay,
so we're going to have some twenty and forty man
infirmaries and hospital locations in behind our fence that we
(19:44):
can supervise with two security officers as opposed to eighty
if that's forty in a hospital. So again smarta ways
to do business. A little bit of upfront costs, but
the return on investment is significant.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Final segment were talking about how time just flies, and
I was sharing with the secretary this topic is just
too important.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It just is.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It impacts every single person listening. And if you don't
live in the Sunshine State, trust me, it impacts you
wherever you live, because this is an issue in every state.
It's just a matter of how the issue is being tackled,
and the issue is returning inmates to the population in
(20:28):
a successful manner where we reduce the likelihood of recidivism.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You've talked a little bit this morning about the staff
and you know Yeoman's work. I mean, this is hard
to put your arms around corrections in any state, let
alone as divers as state, as large as state as
Florida is. But those people are very important at seeing success.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
They are could not be prouder of the staff in
this state that works in the Department of Corrections and
the culture of our state. We in the past have
been a sized about our culture, but I say a lot.
I'm proud of our culture. Our culture keeps people safe,
and they have the staff have bought into the mission
so well. I can't say that was always the case
decades ago, but I can't say that every the one
(21:15):
percent of the individuals that work for us have bought in,
but the vast majority get it and they understand why
we do what we do. I give a tremendous amount
of credit to Hope Gartman. She is our assistant Deputy
Secretary over institutions and her job is primarily focused on security,
and I used to be in that job and I
probably too much focused on that without enough focus on
(21:36):
the re entry aspect. But the way she leads that
team and make sure that we do the things we
have to do as it relates to security, but constantly
reminds them of our obligation to focus on the re
entry and reducing idleness. Amy Frazel is a head of
our programs in re entry, and the relationship the two
(21:57):
of them have to respect each other's mission and make
sure that it marries up that it's complementary of our
entire goal is phenomenal. Again, couldn't be more proud of
the staff at the line level, but the leadership I
don't talk about enough either. I've got Richard coming for
thirty nine year veteran with the Department of Corrections as
Deputy Secretary and just has such a heart and a
(22:18):
maturity about him and a wisdom that makes my job easy.
Our chief of staff is Tim Fitzgerald, he's a retired
sergeant major in the military. And Joe Winkler, as you know,
Leed's Community Correction So never seen this kind of team
at the department. I've worked with a lot of teams
over a lot of years, but just such a dedicated
(22:39):
team that doesn't concentrate solely on their area of responsibility,
but has the greater mission at heart. And so feel
very fortunate to get to work with this people every day.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
To businesses out there, there are certain industries that seem
to gravitate towards giving opportunities to returning citizens as we
like to call them, But the reality is there are
a lot of business owners out there that are looking
for employees. I've thought it's the best job market for
people coming out of out of corrections that I can
(23:13):
remember in my lifetime. They're just jobs everywhere. What would
you say to a prospective employer.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So I would not hesitate to give them a chance,
so that you know, depending on what you do and
the liability associated with it, that the information about their
past is very you know, it's very relevant and very relevant.
You can see that and evaluate the past histories. But
so many of them have proven successful. It's relatively very
few that get an education and get a job that
(23:40):
they come back. In fact, let me say this, we
have talking about success. We have one of the lowest
recidivism rates in the United States twenty one percent, where
like number three or two, or three or four in
that category. It kind of fluctuates back and forth. At
one time we had over a thirty percent recidivism rate,
and that is the percentage of inmates that return to
prison after three years of release. That's something to be
(24:02):
proud of when you talk about leading the nation. That's
one of those metrics that means we're doing something right.
The programming, the education, getting them employment, it's having an
impact and it's showing in the statistics.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So a job matters. And what I'll tell you, friends
is if you just email me, I'll direct you to
the right places if you're interested. In learning more of
how you can take part. Mister secretary. Thanks, I appreciate
you coming in.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Ricky Dixon with me this morning forty seven minutes past
the hour, the Secretary of Corrections for the Sunshine State
and my guest here in the Morning Show with Preston
Scott
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