December 15, 2025 • 26 mins
Our monthly segment focusing on your safety (OK, and a few other things, too).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
More fun than a human being should be allowed to have.
It's the Morning Show with Me and him and this
guy joining us from the Talent Training Group. He is JD. Johnson,
co founder of All Things Talent and co host of
Talent Outdoors. How you doing, friend, I'm doing Greatshi. I
was just telling you, you know, Thanksgiving, loved it great
(00:26):
to be around the kids, and they gave me a gift.
Someone gave me a gift and I've been fighting it
ever since. But at any rate, and as I said,
I'm willing friends, because it's Christmas, to surrender some time,
to take some questions if you want to. We've got
an email question already and you're gonna roll your eyes
a second you hear it. I know you will. But
(00:47):
if you want to send me a question or call in,
ask a question, Ask a question about shopping for the
gun lover in your family or for yourself. I mean,
it's okay, it's okay to spend a buck or two
on your side off it's eight five zero two zero
five to b FLA. But I'm not going to beat
it around because I have a list of things that
I want to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Here's a question from David. If you are using a burner,
go ahead, go ahead, go ahead with pepper gas or
rubber pellets. Is there any chance of getting charged for
assault or anything else?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, depends on when you're using.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It, tends on depends on the circumstances. You better have.
You better have a use of force scenario. You know,
it's no different than hitting somebody with us So you
have a cane, a walking cane, and you you're the
aggressor in the situation, hit somebody with a cane, or
you know, slap somebody. You know, you get mad and
(01:46):
throw a drink in somebody's face. That's that's a battery.
You know. It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm curious though, because it does raise an interesting set
of questions in that does given that that burners are
legal to carry for people eighteen and older, you can
openly carry those, and you can carry them wherever you
want to. Basically for the most part, you can. Does
the same standard of discharging one of those a launcher?
(02:13):
Is it the same as you know, fear of death
and great bodily harm?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, it's not, because it's not a lethal It's not
a lethal device.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So would it be considered no different than punching back
correct or punching first if the situation warrants it.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So you're you're allowed to meet force with an equal
amount of force. So someone's charging you, right so that
you can you can punch that person, or you can
kick that person. You know you can. There's you can
defend yourself with it. Yeah, but it's not the same
standard as a firearm, because a firearm shooting at someone,
(02:51):
whether you hit them or not, is the use of
deadly force. Okay, because the firearm, if appropriately applied, will
cause death or great bodily harm. Yeah, So the burner,
any kind of launcher, any pepper ball launcher, is not
likely to cause death or great bodily harm.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Just don't be the instigator and use that.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Don't don't point it at somebody because you're having an
argument and you're mad at them. You know, we see
people cross that line all the time that that you know,
they're the ones out of control because they don't they
get into a or kerfuffle with somebody at the store
or something.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah I disagree about something.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, you know that's in maintaining your civility in those
situations is important.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Would it be fair to also say, before we go
to a phone caller here that the way that some
of those devices are designed, they look like a legitimate
firearm too many. Yeah, and so if you drew one
for no reason other than you're mad at somebody, that
person could perhaps have an argument if they pulled a
(04:03):
legitimate firearm, yeah, and discharged a round.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Sure, So somebody's carrying a real gun and you point
your burner at him because you've had an argument, you're mad,
and you're you're gonna win the argument by.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Hitting them with pepper spray.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Hitting them with pepper spray, well, I could make the
argument that, okay, little pepper spray is going to disable me.
You know, they advertise that they can incapacitate somebody for
forty minutes, which is probably not true, but they make
that argument. Well, if I'm incapacitated in some fashion or
other and I'm armed, what's stopping you from coming and
(04:38):
taking my gun away from me and using it on me?
So same, you know, same concept. That's why it's lethal force.
If a police officer carrying a taser and somebody tries
to take the taser away from the officer, the officer
that can then transition to a firearm and say he
was fixing to incapacitate me with my taser. Therefore I
shot him. He was trying to take my weapon.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
So the answers still were to get your call right
after the break, David, the answer to you is be careful.
No the law No, the law yeah is don't be
the instigator. Yeah, don't be the bully, and we're back.
(05:19):
JD Johnson with me from the Talent Training Group Talentrange
dot Com and Stu is on the phone line. Stu,
good morning, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
What's your question, JD?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
About two years ago I evaded a near home invasion.
Up until that point, I was an AR fifteen guy
for home defense. After that I reconsidered because of over penetration.
My neighbors are relatives of mine next door. I wouldn't
want anything to happen to them if I had to
use a fire arm. I'm now using a twelve gauge
am up hump action with a flashlight. Am I at
(05:50):
any disadvantage compared to an AR fifteen in the home
defense scenario?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
A twelve gage pump with a flashlight is exactly what
sleeps under my bed back? Then, I answer your question. No,
you're not, in my opinion, inside the home in close
close quarters. Uh, there is no replacement for a twelve
gage or twenty gage shotgun with buck shot.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
What about what about a car being nine millimeter? Okay,
I'm just throws.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Are fine and and over penetration is really not an
issue with the right ammo.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Okay, with ball.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Ammo that you take and take to the range and
shoot at targets with, it's not a great that's not
good because it pokes a little hole and keeps on
going and doesn't do with a with an AR. You know,
if you're using soft point soft point expanding type ammo,
over penetration is really not that big of an issue
as much as people think it is. Uh, nine millimeters
carbans are great. There's still no replacement for a twelve
(06:54):
gage shotgun. It it it does more, it's more effective
than either of these. Ballistically speaking, Stu.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You got any follow up for that?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
No, that's perfect, James, Yeah, Christmas, thank you.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Uh, the big merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
You have filthy animal.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
The uh, you know, the big, the big difference. You
know you have to look at like this when you
fire a twelve gauge double at book, you're launching eight
or nine thirty three caliber pellets, So that's basically nine
millimeter type projectiles, nine millimeters diameter projectiles. You're launching nine
(07:33):
of them at one time, So that's like pulling the
trigger on a nine millimeter nine times.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
What kind of spread does that have at say, eight
or nine feet versus twenty feet.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
A big difference. I mean close range, you're you're you
have to aim a shotgun at close range, your your pattern,
uh is, its calls not going to be a whole
lot bigger than the diameter of the barrel. So at
close range it's you know, twelve twelve point one whatever
millimeter's twelve point sixty seven or whatever. Twelve gauge is
(08:05):
sixty seven caliber basically the further it gets out at
fifteen yards, so that's what forty five feet. Most houses
don't have much further than a forty five foot shot
anywhere in the house is a direct line. Yeah, your
pattern's going to be fifteen, sixteen, eighteen inches somewhere in there,
(08:26):
depending on the gun and the load. So it's given
you a bigger, you know, bigger think of a think
of a five gallon bucket, diameter at fifteen yards, that's
you probably could put all of them in. All those
pellets are going to land in a five gallon bucket
at fifteen yards.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You mentioned twelve gauge, that's what he mentioned as well,
but you also mentioned twenty. What about four to ten?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Four ten is a different animal. You're you're launching three
triple off buck Most four to ten buck shot just
as effective. Let's recoil. I'm just not a giant fan
of four to ten because the velocity is reduced below
You're getting down velocity wise.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Even short distances.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, even short distances.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
What about the pump action, as you mentioned versus there
are some models out there that are semi automatic.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Some automatics can be problematic unless you find a load
that will reliably work with your semi automatic. There a
lot of them are dependent on the power of the
shell to operate properly. Yeah, pumps don't care pump shot guns.
You're manually working the action of the gun, so it
doesn't matter what load you put in it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Do you recommend for personal defense, Let's stay on the
twelve gage pump. Do you recommend alternating or using different
loads or the same.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Load all depends on your scenario. Okay, inside the house buckshot,
you know large number four number four bird shot. Maybe
that's that's about as small of a bird shot as
I would go with. It was like a number four.
There's there's also number four buck shot, which gives you
fifty fifty pellets roughly, But what would you recommend a
(10:12):
double alt? Okay, there's some eight pellet reduced recoil tactical
buckshot that Federal and Spear and a couple other companies
make uses reduced power load, one less shot than standard
and it doesn't kick bad and it's very effective.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
And we are back with Jade Johnson, co founder of
the Talent Training Group and Talent Outdoors, where he and
Charlie and a cast of characters is putting it very politely.
Did you ever think it would grow like that?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
No? No, I missed. I missed this last Saturday show.
I got a last minute something I had to go
do and couldn't be there for the show's first one
I've missed in the history of the show that I
wasn't there about that? Yeah, And everybody's amen, like, well,
you always didn't listen to all the shows, so you
didn't know. It wasn't something bad. I had to grab
(11:10):
my new truck.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Okay, it wasn't like you were you were on time
out or anything. All right, we got a caller here
standing by, and we've got an email question to get to.
Will you're up, what's your question?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Good morning, j D Pression. Thanks for taking my calling.
I wanted to go back to the topic of the
burner the launcher. I do have a legal question. I
have some unfortunate past decisions which makes me a convicted fellon.
And I hear the advertisement stating that yes, you can
(11:41):
carry it, but how does that stand for convicted selling
and their ability to potentially protecting theirselves and their family.
But there's some ornals of that or but it don't
be considered weapon. Thanks Felling.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I would if I were you, I would get a
I have stayed at a holiday in express, but I'm not
a lawyer. I would get a lead opinion. You can
ask the the state attorneys or the ask the state
Attorney's office, ask the Attorney General of the state of
Florida get an opinion on it. It's my understanding that
(12:13):
you are fine carrying it.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I believe so too.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So yeah, in your case, that would be a viable,
somewhat viable option. Since you can't have a gun, that
would be a that would be a viable option for you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Thank you very much, Jillan, You're welcome. I appreciate it. Well,
let's see here, we've got an email question that came
in here. Roger is writing in back to the twelve
gauge question for home defense. What barrel length?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Well, the maximum legal without a tax stamp is eighteen inches.
Eighteen twenty inches is fine. Eighteen or twenty inch most
of your your miniments. That's the yeah, And that's what
I would recommend. It's easier to move around with it.
It's not you know, a thirty inch long duck hunting
shotgun that you know you can you can move around
(13:03):
with an eighteen or twenty inch barrel gun.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And we've talked about that a lot. That if you're
if you're in your home and you're worried that somebody
is in your home, being very very careful about how
you clear your house with a long gun.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Absolutely, because if you if the gun enters the room
before you do and you haven't cleared the corners of
the threshold on either side of the door. Uh, there
may be a there may be a violent discussion over
ownership of the firearm. At that point, you don't want
to stick the gun out past your cover, is what
I'm saying, where somebody can grab it and control the
business end of it.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We were talking earlier in the program in advance of
our segment here JD and we talked about, you know,
flashlights and gun mounted lights versus having one in your hand.
And obviously, you know with a with a handgun, it
would make sense to have a flashlight in your hand,
perhaps to go around a corner and the look without
(13:58):
putting your your fire out there. What about a shotgun, Well,
how do you handle lighting up an area?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I love a weapon mounted light on a shotgun because
it takes two hands to operate. It takes two hands
to operate the gun properly. With a handgun, it doesn't
take two hands to operate the gun properly. So and
I'm not opposed to weapon mounted lights on a firearm
as long as I have a tactical small flashlight and
(14:25):
I can shoot with a flashlight in one hand and
a handgun and the other the absolutechniques for doing that,
there's several different techniques for doing that, and they all work.
But with a shotgun or a rifle for self defense purposes,
a weapon mounted light is absolutely a necessity in my opinion. JD.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Johnson with me of the Talent Training group again, you
talk about a gift that keeps on giving. Get some training, people,
give someone a gift card for some training and get
out there and learn to be better and safer and
able to protect yourself and your loved ones on that subject.
(15:04):
While we're talking gift giving, which is kind of fun
and maybe a little bit lighthearted, the fact of the
matter is, as we talked in the break, there are
more and more targeted shootings happening at private Christian schools unfortunately. Yes,
And so my question to you, and I wrote down
on my list here of things to ask you Kevlar
for kids question mark.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, there's some companies that make panels for backpacks that
you can It's a ballistic panel that you can drop
into a into a backpack. They're shaped like a backpack
like most backpacks, and you could basically drop a soft
soft armor panel into a backpack. And you know, over
(15:47):
the summer, I went to New York City with my
family and I grabbed a backpack out of the shop,
dropped a panel in there, so at least I would
have some defense, you know, some some kind of a
defensive shield, if you will, that I could hold up
on the if something was to happen with my family there.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
What panel? What one panel? What will it stop?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
The panels that the soft panels, the ones that are
flexible and soft and that don't weigh a lot, they'll
stop handgun rounds. I would say that if you I
haven't tested this, it's you know, and I don't know
if you've seen the kids, but by the time kids
get to middle school, they're carrying around these huge backpacks,
the books. A panel with several books in there probably
(16:33):
would stop a five five six round, two twenty three
round out of an.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
It at least gives your child a chance there.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, it's going to slow it down tremendously. You know,
ballistic armor, soft body armor, kevlar, that kind of stuff
not designed to stop rifle rounds. You have to have
something hard, either ceramic or steel, to stop a rifle round.
There's very or soft body armour would be so thick
that it would be unwieled. Cumbers h Yeah, as far
(17:04):
as wearable stuff for kids, I'm sure somebody probably makes
it out there. I don't recommend. It's not uncomfortable. You
don't want you don't want the kid to go to
school every day wearing body armor. But those panels are
are fairly light and fairly resilient. As far as stopping handgun.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Right, and it would be something.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah, it's better than better than like I say all
the time, it's better than a sharp stick. Yeah, you know,
but yeah, it would it would do something. And then
you combine that with some thick history books or something
like that, any any object you know. There in the
gun world, there used to be a people would test
AMMO by taking the big giant phone books. I know
younger folks don't know what a phone book is, but
(17:43):
you and I grew up. If you grew up in
a big area, your phone book was several inches thick.
Yes it was, and say a lot as a representative
of ballistic performance from handguns. People would take phone books,
soak them in water, get them wet, and then stack
them up and see how many phone books your cartridge
would go through or your bullet would go through as
(18:04):
a as a and enough phone books will stop a bullet.
There's a guy on the I saw a guy on
Instagram the other day shooting Plato a big giant blow
of a playto and it, you know, stopped the fifty BMG,
a huge cartridge machine gun, you know, big fifty caliber
machine gun with Plato. Now it took about thirty inches
(18:28):
of plato sure to stop it, but it stopped it.
You know, bullets are not bullets don't like hard objects.
Soft objects slow them down really fast, so you know,
at least you're minimizing the damage if it was to
go all the way through.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Final segment with J. D. Johnson of the Talent Training Group,
and now we're kind of circling into gifts suggestions, and
again not to freak anybody out, but there's a reality
and a kevlar panel can slip into a backpack and
it could make a differences. That's the whole point of
this show, trying to find ways to make a difference. Now,
one way we can make a difference is advise mostly
guys out there, don't buy your wife a gun without
(19:13):
some thought going into this.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, or just don't buy your wife a gun at all.
Let her pick it out by your wife a gift certificate. Yeah.
I have this discussion across the counter at the gun
store on the regular, just about weekly. Two days ago,
guy comes in, My wife wants a gun. I want
to buy my wife a gun? What about that one?
What about this one? I like, stop, yeah, just stop,
(19:36):
and he kind of looks at it like, yeah, I'm
I'm in the business of selling guns. It's not that
I don't want to sell you a gun. Let your
wife choose it. Take her to the range, rent some
of the guns we have down there, try them out,
Let her make the decision. It is a very and
I've always used this analogy. I wouldn't You don't pick
(19:56):
your wife's shoes or purses. You know, if you do,
you might get lucky, or it might sit in the
closet and collect us because she doesn't like it and
doesn't have the doesn't want to tell you that hurt
your feelings that.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You just notice after five years she's never put them on.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, So don't don't try to choose that. Just let
her choose and facilitate it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Equally personal, if not even more personal? Is Holster same
thing right? Gift card yep, Absolutely get people a gift
card for that. What about the things that someone might
want to consider giving as a gift, a red dot
or a shot timer, or a cleaning kit or a
light or whatever, all of those things.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's all part of owning a gun, being able to
take care of it and clean it, maintain it, which
is not hard to do. We show people, We sit
there at the counter just about every day and show
people how to take care of their firearm. We don't
charge for that. We just do it because you need
to know. Lights, lasers, sights, all of those things are
(21:04):
make good gifts, you know, and they're something that most
people are gonna want.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
What about the targets that are out there? There are
paper targets obviously at the range, you have steel targets
available that people can can shoot at the bays that
are set up for that. But I'm hearing about targets
that are like they're made of this composite rubbery material
that the bullet goes through it and disappears.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Most of those we don't allow because most of them
sit on the ground. And you take us this funny
looking ball thing and you throw it out there on
the ground and shoot it. We don't want you shooting
the ground. Yeah, there's too much of a potential of
that bullet hitting the ground and skipping and missing the
big pile of dirt that you're shooting. We want all
the bullets fired on the range to hit into that
big pile of dirt.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
What about people that have their own area, their own land,
They've got a big plot of land, They've got their
own little shooting area back there. What are the types
of targets that are becoming Are there any that are
becoming more popular than.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
There's not that I know of. Those composite targets will
take a lot of rounds before they before they're unusable.
I've seen some of the some of the new composits there.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
But you know where you're hitting.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Uh, if you go up there and examine it, sometimes
you'll see a little tiny you know, it makes a
little small dot on there. Yeah, I mean you can
there there. There's some viable alternatives. Steel is still a
very viable alternative. You just need to buy it. Don't
try to do it yourself. You want the steal our
Steel targets are angled a certain way so that it
(22:32):
deflects the the broken apart bullet down into the ground
you can. If you angle them the wrong way, then
you're creating a launching ramp and you don't know where
that bullet's gonna end up, and that's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, all right, Is there anything coming out this season
that you think is interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
In the gun world?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Ye?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Not really there, you know, there's there's really I haven't
seen there. There's some newer guns on the market. Smith
and Wesson's made a couple of really you know, new
guns in the in the recent past. The new Bodyguard
three eighty is a very small little gun that holds
twelve rounds of three eighty. That's a very compact, nice
little carry gun. We sell a lot of those. They've
(23:13):
redesigned the shield. It's called a shield X. Now that's
a slimmer grip. You know, there's there's some big stuff
coming from Glock, but it probably won't happen until the
first quarter next year.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Okay. Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
The big the big thing right now is suppressers. Uh.
It's it's a because the two hundred dollars tax stamp,
the federal tax stamp, the registration stamp, whatever you want
to call it. The two hundred dollars is going away
January one, So we are currently selling a lot of
suppressors right now and holding them for folks that don't
(23:49):
want to pay the tax stamp. So we're holding on
to them until January gets here to submit the paperwork
because you right now, if you submit the paperwork is
two hundred bucks January second, because the first is the
holiday anywhary, second, the submission doesn't cost you the two
hundred dollars anymore. The process has stayed the same. Yeah,
and there's something to pay attention to Tomorrow Thursday. There
(24:11):
is several big important Second Amendment gun things coming up
from the Supreme Court. It's gonna be making some decisions
on some big gun stuff, the magazine capacity states that
have magazine capacity bands and semi auto weapon bands and
stuff like that. That stuff's finally made it. Hopefully we'll
(24:31):
be on their docket in the very near future to
make a final decision on Tomorrow's when they go and
examine it and see if they want to look at
the case.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
What's your confidence level if they take the case that
they'll rule properly.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I think Clarence Thomas is gonna probably do There is
probably gonna make the docket and they're probably gonna rule
in the favor of gun ownership and against the states.
They've already ruled against California on the ten round magazine
band send it back to the litwer court. They vacated it,
sent it act.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Do you think there's enough support in the whole court
for that.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I think they only need five Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Justice Roberts isn't reliable to me.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
He's not, but he I think he's I don't see
how they can rule against it. Just put it that
way and not in it to be a constitutional decision.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Hopefully it's six'.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Three, well, yeah the uh, so the the, court The
california law basically holds that the magazines for firearms are
not protected under The Second, amendment as if they're not
a part of the. Firearm, well it is an integral
part of the fire and doesn't work without. It Uh,
(25:41):
SO i can't see logically how they would, say, uh you,
know anything other than, yeah you're, Wrong. California they. Were
they were Told california they're wrong once And, CALIFORNIA i,
mean here we are. Again so hopefully they'll hold their
feet to the fire and let's just be reasonable about.
Things you, know if somebody's gonna do something bad with the,
(26:02):
gun they're gonna do something bad with the. Gun that's just.
Right they're gonna find a way to get. It they're
gonna do something.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Bad thanks for coming in my. Pleasure Merry, Christmas Mery.
Christmas Happy New.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Year we'll be you next, Year, Yes SIR. J.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
D johnson with us from the talent training group talanrange dot.
Com
More fun than a human being should be allowed to have.
It's the Morning Show with Me and him and this
guy joining us from the Talent Training Group. He is JD. Johnson,
co founder of All Things Talent and co host of
Talent Outdoors. How you doing, friend, I'm doing Greatshi. I
was just telling you, you know, Thanksgiving, loved it great
(00:26):
to be around the kids, and they gave me a gift.
Someone gave me a gift and I've been fighting it
ever since. But at any rate, and as I said,
I'm willing friends, because it's Christmas, to surrender some time,
to take some questions if you want to. We've got
an email question already and you're gonna roll your eyes
a second you hear it. I know you will. But
(00:47):
if you want to send me a question or call in,
ask a question, Ask a question about shopping for the
gun lover in your family or for yourself. I mean,
it's okay, it's okay to spend a buck or two
on your side off it's eight five zero two zero
five to b FLA. But I'm not going to beat
it around because I have a list of things that
I want to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Here's a question from David. If you are using a burner,
go ahead, go ahead, go ahead with pepper gas or
rubber pellets. Is there any chance of getting charged for
assault or anything else?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, depends on when you're using.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It, tends on depends on the circumstances. You better have.
You better have a use of force scenario. You know,
it's no different than hitting somebody with us So you
have a cane, a walking cane, and you you're the
aggressor in the situation, hit somebody with a cane, or
you know, slap somebody. You know, you get mad and
(01:46):
throw a drink in somebody's face. That's that's a battery.
You know. It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm curious though, because it does raise an interesting set
of questions in that does given that that burners are
legal to carry for people eighteen and older, you can
openly carry those, and you can carry them wherever you
want to. Basically for the most part, you can. Does
the same standard of discharging one of those a launcher?
(02:13):
Is it the same as you know, fear of death
and great bodily harm?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, it's not, because it's not a lethal It's not
a lethal device.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So would it be considered no different than punching back
correct or punching first if the situation warrants it.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So you're you're allowed to meet force with an equal
amount of force. So someone's charging you, right so that
you can you can punch that person, or you can
kick that person. You know you can. There's you can
defend yourself with it. Yeah, but it's not the same
standard as a firearm, because a firearm shooting at someone,
(02:51):
whether you hit them or not, is the use of
deadly force. Okay, because the firearm, if appropriately applied, will
cause death or great bodily harm. Yeah, So the burner,
any kind of launcher, any pepper ball launcher, is not
likely to cause death or great bodily harm.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Just don't be the instigator and use that.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Don't don't point it at somebody because you're having an
argument and you're mad at them. You know, we see
people cross that line all the time that that you know,
they're the ones out of control because they don't they
get into a or kerfuffle with somebody at the store
or something.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah I disagree about something.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, you know that's in maintaining your civility in those
situations is important.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Would it be fair to also say, before we go
to a phone caller here that the way that some
of those devices are designed, they look like a legitimate
firearm too many. Yeah, and so if you drew one
for no reason other than you're mad at somebody, that
person could perhaps have an argument if they pulled a
(04:03):
legitimate firearm, yeah, and discharged a round.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Sure, So somebody's carrying a real gun and you point
your burner at him because you've had an argument, you're mad,
and you're you're gonna win the argument by.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Hitting them with pepper spray.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Hitting them with pepper spray, well, I could make the
argument that, okay, little pepper spray is going to disable me.
You know, they advertise that they can incapacitate somebody for
forty minutes, which is probably not true, but they make
that argument. Well, if I'm incapacitated in some fashion or
other and I'm armed, what's stopping you from coming and
(04:38):
taking my gun away from me and using it on me?
So same, you know, same concept. That's why it's lethal force.
If a police officer carrying a taser and somebody tries
to take the taser away from the officer, the officer
that can then transition to a firearm and say he
was fixing to incapacitate me with my taser. Therefore I
shot him. He was trying to take my weapon.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
So the answers still were to get your call right
after the break, David, the answer to you is be careful.
No the law No, the law yeah is don't be
the instigator. Yeah, don't be the bully, and we're back.
(05:19):
JD Johnson with me from the Talent Training Group Talentrange
dot Com and Stu is on the phone line. Stu,
good morning, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
What's your question, JD?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
About two years ago I evaded a near home invasion.
Up until that point, I was an AR fifteen guy
for home defense. After that I reconsidered because of over penetration.
My neighbors are relatives of mine next door. I wouldn't
want anything to happen to them if I had to
use a fire arm. I'm now using a twelve gauge
am up hump action with a flashlight. Am I at
(05:50):
any disadvantage compared to an AR fifteen in the home
defense scenario?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
A twelve gage pump with a flashlight is exactly what
sleeps under my bed back? Then, I answer your question. No,
you're not, in my opinion, inside the home in close
close quarters. Uh, there is no replacement for a twelve
gage or twenty gage shotgun with buck shot.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
What about what about a car being nine millimeter? Okay,
I'm just throws.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Are fine and and over penetration is really not an
issue with the right ammo.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Okay, with ball.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Ammo that you take and take to the range and
shoot at targets with, it's not a great that's not
good because it pokes a little hole and keeps on
going and doesn't do with a with an AR. You know,
if you're using soft point soft point expanding type ammo,
over penetration is really not that big of an issue
as much as people think it is. Uh, nine millimeters
carbans are great. There's still no replacement for a twelve
(06:54):
gage shotgun. It it it does more, it's more effective
than either of these. Ballistically speaking, Stu.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You got any follow up for that?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
No, that's perfect, James, Yeah, Christmas, thank you.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Uh, the big merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
You have filthy animal.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
The uh, you know, the big, the big difference. You
know you have to look at like this when you
fire a twelve gauge double at book, you're launching eight
or nine thirty three caliber pellets, So that's basically nine
millimeter type projectiles, nine millimeters diameter projectiles. You're launching nine
(07:33):
of them at one time, So that's like pulling the
trigger on a nine millimeter nine times.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
What kind of spread does that have at say, eight
or nine feet versus twenty feet.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
A big difference. I mean close range, you're you're you
have to aim a shotgun at close range, your your pattern,
uh is, its calls not going to be a whole
lot bigger than the diameter of the barrel. So at
close range it's you know, twelve twelve point one whatever
millimeter's twelve point sixty seven or whatever. Twelve gauge is
(08:05):
sixty seven caliber basically the further it gets out at
fifteen yards, so that's what forty five feet. Most houses
don't have much further than a forty five foot shot
anywhere in the house is a direct line. Yeah, your
pattern's going to be fifteen, sixteen, eighteen inches somewhere in there,
(08:26):
depending on the gun and the load. So it's given
you a bigger, you know, bigger think of a think
of a five gallon bucket, diameter at fifteen yards, that's
you probably could put all of them in. All those
pellets are going to land in a five gallon bucket
at fifteen yards.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You mentioned twelve gauge, that's what he mentioned as well,
but you also mentioned twenty. What about four to ten?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Four ten is a different animal. You're you're launching three
triple off buck Most four to ten buck shot just
as effective. Let's recoil. I'm just not a giant fan
of four to ten because the velocity is reduced below
You're getting down velocity wise.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Even short distances.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, even short distances.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
What about the pump action, as you mentioned versus there
are some models out there that are semi automatic.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Some automatics can be problematic unless you find a load
that will reliably work with your semi automatic. There a
lot of them are dependent on the power of the
shell to operate properly. Yeah, pumps don't care pump shot guns.
You're manually working the action of the gun, so it
doesn't matter what load you put in it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Do you recommend for personal defense, Let's stay on the
twelve gage pump. Do you recommend alternating or using different
loads or the same.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Load all depends on your scenario. Okay, inside the house buckshot,
you know large number four number four bird shot. Maybe
that's that's about as small of a bird shot as
I would go with. It was like a number four.
There's there's also number four buck shot, which gives you
fifty fifty pellets roughly, But what would you recommend a
(10:12):
double alt? Okay, there's some eight pellet reduced recoil tactical
buckshot that Federal and Spear and a couple other companies
make uses reduced power load, one less shot than standard
and it doesn't kick bad and it's very effective.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
And we are back with Jade Johnson, co founder of
the Talent Training Group and Talent Outdoors, where he and
Charlie and a cast of characters is putting it very politely.
Did you ever think it would grow like that?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
No? No, I missed. I missed this last Saturday show.
I got a last minute something I had to go
do and couldn't be there for the show's first one
I've missed in the history of the show that I
wasn't there about that? Yeah, And everybody's amen, like, well,
you always didn't listen to all the shows, so you
didn't know. It wasn't something bad. I had to grab
(11:10):
my new truck.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Okay, it wasn't like you were you were on time
out or anything. All right, we got a caller here
standing by, and we've got an email question to get to.
Will you're up, what's your question?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Good morning, j D Pression. Thanks for taking my calling.
I wanted to go back to the topic of the
burner the launcher. I do have a legal question. I
have some unfortunate past decisions which makes me a convicted fellon.
And I hear the advertisement stating that yes, you can
(11:41):
carry it, but how does that stand for convicted selling
and their ability to potentially protecting theirselves and their family.
But there's some ornals of that or but it don't
be considered weapon. Thanks Felling.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I would if I were you, I would get a
I have stayed at a holiday in express, but I'm not
a lawyer. I would get a lead opinion. You can
ask the the state attorneys or the ask the state
Attorney's office, ask the Attorney General of the state of
Florida get an opinion on it. It's my understanding that
(12:13):
you are fine carrying it.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I believe so too.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So yeah, in your case, that would be a viable,
somewhat viable option. Since you can't have a gun, that
would be a that would be a viable option for you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Thank you very much, Jillan, You're welcome. I appreciate it. Well,
let's see here, we've got an email question that came
in here. Roger is writing in back to the twelve
gauge question for home defense. What barrel length?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Well, the maximum legal without a tax stamp is eighteen inches.
Eighteen twenty inches is fine. Eighteen or twenty inch most
of your your miniments. That's the yeah, And that's what
I would recommend. It's easier to move around with it.
It's not you know, a thirty inch long duck hunting
shotgun that you know you can you can move around
(13:03):
with an eighteen or twenty inch barrel gun.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And we've talked about that a lot. That if you're
if you're in your home and you're worried that somebody
is in your home, being very very careful about how
you clear your house with a long gun.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Absolutely, because if you if the gun enters the room
before you do and you haven't cleared the corners of
the threshold on either side of the door. Uh, there
may be a there may be a violent discussion over
ownership of the firearm. At that point, you don't want
to stick the gun out past your cover, is what
I'm saying, where somebody can grab it and control the
business end of it.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We were talking earlier in the program in advance of
our segment here JD and we talked about, you know,
flashlights and gun mounted lights versus having one in your hand.
And obviously, you know with a with a handgun, it
would make sense to have a flashlight in your hand,
perhaps to go around a corner and the look without
(13:58):
putting your your fire out there. What about a shotgun, Well,
how do you handle lighting up an area?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I love a weapon mounted light on a shotgun because
it takes two hands to operate. It takes two hands
to operate the gun properly. With a handgun, it doesn't
take two hands to operate the gun properly. So and
I'm not opposed to weapon mounted lights on a firearm
as long as I have a tactical small flashlight and
(14:25):
I can shoot with a flashlight in one hand and
a handgun and the other the absolutechniques for doing that,
there's several different techniques for doing that, and they all work.
But with a shotgun or a rifle for self defense purposes,
a weapon mounted light is absolutely a necessity in my opinion. JD.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Johnson with me of the Talent Training group again, you
talk about a gift that keeps on giving. Get some training, people,
give someone a gift card for some training and get
out there and learn to be better and safer and
able to protect yourself and your loved ones on that subject.
(15:04):
While we're talking gift giving, which is kind of fun
and maybe a little bit lighthearted, the fact of the
matter is, as we talked in the break, there are
more and more targeted shootings happening at private Christian schools unfortunately. Yes,
And so my question to you, and I wrote down
on my list here of things to ask you Kevlar
for kids question mark.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, there's some companies that make panels for backpacks that
you can It's a ballistic panel that you can drop
into a into a backpack. They're shaped like a backpack
like most backpacks, and you could basically drop a soft
soft armor panel into a backpack. And you know, over
(15:47):
the summer, I went to New York City with my
family and I grabbed a backpack out of the shop,
dropped a panel in there, so at least I would
have some defense, you know, some some kind of a
defensive shield, if you will, that I could hold up
on the if something was to happen with my family there.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
What panel? What one panel? What will it stop?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
The panels that the soft panels, the ones that are
flexible and soft and that don't weigh a lot, they'll
stop handgun rounds. I would say that if you I
haven't tested this, it's you know, and I don't know
if you've seen the kids, but by the time kids
get to middle school, they're carrying around these huge backpacks,
the books. A panel with several books in there probably
(16:33):
would stop a five five six round, two twenty three
round out of an.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
It at least gives your child a chance there.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, it's going to slow it down tremendously. You know,
ballistic armor, soft body armor, kevlar, that kind of stuff
not designed to stop rifle rounds. You have to have
something hard, either ceramic or steel, to stop a rifle round.
There's very or soft body armour would be so thick
that it would be unwieled. Cumbers h Yeah, as far
(17:04):
as wearable stuff for kids, I'm sure somebody probably makes
it out there. I don't recommend. It's not uncomfortable. You
don't want you don't want the kid to go to
school every day wearing body armor. But those panels are
are fairly light and fairly resilient. As far as stopping handgun.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Right, and it would be something.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah, it's better than better than like I say all
the time, it's better than a sharp stick. Yeah, you know,
but yeah, it would it would do something. And then
you combine that with some thick history books or something
like that, any any object you know. There in the
gun world, there used to be a people would test
AMMO by taking the big giant phone books. I know
younger folks don't know what a phone book is, but
(17:43):
you and I grew up. If you grew up in
a big area, your phone book was several inches thick.
Yes it was, and say a lot as a representative
of ballistic performance from handguns. People would take phone books,
soak them in water, get them wet, and then stack
them up and see how many phone books your cartridge
would go through or your bullet would go through as
(18:04):
a as a and enough phone books will stop a bullet.
There's a guy on the I saw a guy on
Instagram the other day shooting Plato a big giant blow
of a playto and it, you know, stopped the fifty BMG,
a huge cartridge machine gun, you know, big fifty caliber
machine gun with Plato. Now it took about thirty inches
(18:28):
of plato sure to stop it, but it stopped it.
You know, bullets are not bullets don't like hard objects.
Soft objects slow them down really fast, so you know,
at least you're minimizing the damage if it was to
go all the way through.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Final segment with J. D. Johnson of the Talent Training Group,
and now we're kind of circling into gifts suggestions, and
again not to freak anybody out, but there's a reality
and a kevlar panel can slip into a backpack and
it could make a differences. That's the whole point of
this show, trying to find ways to make a difference. Now,
one way we can make a difference is advise mostly
guys out there, don't buy your wife a gun without
(19:13):
some thought going into this.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, or just don't buy your wife a gun at all.
Let her pick it out by your wife a gift certificate. Yeah.
I have this discussion across the counter at the gun
store on the regular, just about weekly. Two days ago,
guy comes in, My wife wants a gun. I want
to buy my wife a gun? What about that one?
What about this one? I like, stop, yeah, just stop,
(19:36):
and he kind of looks at it like, yeah, I'm
I'm in the business of selling guns. It's not that
I don't want to sell you a gun. Let your
wife choose it. Take her to the range, rent some
of the guns we have down there, try them out,
Let her make the decision. It is a very and
I've always used this analogy. I wouldn't You don't pick
(19:56):
your wife's shoes or purses. You know, if you do,
you might get lucky, or it might sit in the
closet and collect us because she doesn't like it and
doesn't have the doesn't want to tell you that hurt
your feelings that.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You just notice after five years she's never put them on.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, So don't don't try to choose that. Just let
her choose and facilitate it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Equally personal, if not even more personal? Is Holster same
thing right? Gift card yep, Absolutely get people a gift
card for that. What about the things that someone might
want to consider giving as a gift, a red dot
or a shot timer, or a cleaning kit or a
light or whatever, all of those things.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's all part of owning a gun, being able to
take care of it and clean it, maintain it, which
is not hard to do. We show people, We sit
there at the counter just about every day and show
people how to take care of their firearm. We don't
charge for that. We just do it because you need
to know. Lights, lasers, sights, all of those things are
(21:04):
make good gifts, you know, and they're something that most
people are gonna want.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
What about the targets that are out there? There are
paper targets obviously at the range, you have steel targets
available that people can can shoot at the bays that
are set up for that. But I'm hearing about targets
that are like they're made of this composite rubbery material
that the bullet goes through it and disappears.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Most of those we don't allow because most of them
sit on the ground. And you take us this funny
looking ball thing and you throw it out there on
the ground and shoot it. We don't want you shooting
the ground. Yeah, there's too much of a potential of
that bullet hitting the ground and skipping and missing the
big pile of dirt that you're shooting. We want all
the bullets fired on the range to hit into that
big pile of dirt.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
What about people that have their own area, their own land,
They've got a big plot of land, They've got their
own little shooting area back there. What are the types
of targets that are becoming Are there any that are
becoming more popular than.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
There's not that I know of. Those composite targets will
take a lot of rounds before they before they're unusable.
I've seen some of the some of the new composits there.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
But you know where you're hitting.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Uh, if you go up there and examine it, sometimes
you'll see a little tiny you know, it makes a
little small dot on there. Yeah, I mean you can
there there. There's some viable alternatives. Steel is still a
very viable alternative. You just need to buy it. Don't
try to do it yourself. You want the steal our
Steel targets are angled a certain way so that it
(22:32):
deflects the the broken apart bullet down into the ground
you can. If you angle them the wrong way, then
you're creating a launching ramp and you don't know where
that bullet's gonna end up, and that's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, all right, Is there anything coming out this season
that you think is interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
In the gun world?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Ye?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Not really there, you know, there's there's really I haven't
seen there. There's some newer guns on the market. Smith
and Wesson's made a couple of really you know, new
guns in the in the recent past. The new Bodyguard
three eighty is a very small little gun that holds
twelve rounds of three eighty. That's a very compact, nice
little carry gun. We sell a lot of those. They've
(23:13):
redesigned the shield. It's called a shield X. Now that's
a slimmer grip. You know, there's there's some big stuff
coming from Glock, but it probably won't happen until the
first quarter next year.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Okay. Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
The big the big thing right now is suppressers. Uh.
It's it's a because the two hundred dollars tax stamp,
the federal tax stamp, the registration stamp, whatever you want
to call it. The two hundred dollars is going away
January one, So we are currently selling a lot of
suppressors right now and holding them for folks that don't
(23:49):
want to pay the tax stamp. So we're holding on
to them until January gets here to submit the paperwork
because you right now, if you submit the paperwork is
two hundred bucks January second, because the first is the
holiday anywhary, second, the submission doesn't cost you the two
hundred dollars anymore. The process has stayed the same. Yeah,
and there's something to pay attention to Tomorrow Thursday. There
(24:11):
is several big important Second Amendment gun things coming up
from the Supreme Court. It's gonna be making some decisions
on some big gun stuff, the magazine capacity states that
have magazine capacity bands and semi auto weapon bands and
stuff like that. That stuff's finally made it. Hopefully we'll
(24:31):
be on their docket in the very near future to
make a final decision on Tomorrow's when they go and
examine it and see if they want to look at
the case.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
What's your confidence level if they take the case that
they'll rule properly.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I think Clarence Thomas is gonna probably do There is
probably gonna make the docket and they're probably gonna rule
in the favor of gun ownership and against the states.
They've already ruled against California on the ten round magazine
band send it back to the litwer court. They vacated it,
sent it act.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Do you think there's enough support in the whole court
for that.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I think they only need five Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Justice Roberts isn't reliable to me.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
He's not, but he I think he's I don't see
how they can rule against it. Just put it that
way and not in it to be a constitutional decision.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Hopefully it's six'.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Three, well, yeah the uh, so the the, court The
california law basically holds that the magazines for firearms are
not protected under The Second, amendment as if they're not
a part of the. Firearm, well it is an integral
part of the fire and doesn't work without. It Uh,
(25:41):
SO i can't see logically how they would, say, uh you,
know anything other than, yeah you're, Wrong. California they. Were
they were Told california they're wrong once And, CALIFORNIA i,
mean here we are. Again so hopefully they'll hold their
feet to the fire and let's just be reasonable about.
Things you, know if somebody's gonna do something bad with the,
(26:02):
gun they're gonna do something bad with the. Gun that's just.
Right they're gonna find a way to get. It they're
gonna do something.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Bad thanks for coming in my. Pleasure Merry, Christmas Mery.
Christmas Happy New.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Year we'll be you next, Year, Yes SIR. J.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
D johnson with us from the talent training group talanrange dot.
Com
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