December 15, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of Demystifying Money, Misty Lynch talks with Amanda LaFleur about the realities of starting, running, and sustaining a nonprofit in today’s changing financial climate. They break down the myths and key steps to making an impact while keeping your nonprofit organization financially viable.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
Website: www.thenopi.org
Instagram: @thenopiorg
LinkedIn: @thenopi
Where to find Misty
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Here’s what you’ll learn:
- The current challenges facing nonprofits—especially around funding, grants, and government regulations
- How leadership experience and financial literacy can make or break a nonprofit
- Practical advice for building a sustainable nonprofit budget and finding diverse revenue streams
- The importance of focusing on mission, storytelling, and relationship-building for successful fundraising
- Common pitfalls, best practices, and where to find resources and support when launching your own charitable initiative
Website: www.thenopi.org
Instagram: @thenopiorg
LinkedIn: @thenopi
Where to find Misty
Websites:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the demist Defying Money podcast, where each week
you will hear unforgettable conversations with expert guests about success, money, business,
and small steps you can take to elevate your life
and wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Now here's your host, Misty Lynch.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining us for
this episode of Demistifying Money. We're going to talk about
the nonprofit space today.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
This is something that's come up.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
With a lot of clients that I've talked to people
who are interested in either starting a nonprofit working with
a nonprofit, but there is so much confusion about how
they work, how they operate, and how people actually make
a living and make a profit working in the nonprofit space.
So I invited my friend Amandela Floor, she's the founder
(00:46):
and the executive director of the Nonprofit Organization for Philanthropic
Initiatives also known as NOBE with the rest of the
podcast because that's a lot to say, and she has
created really a business that helps people in this space,
which I think is super smart and so needed. And
she has yeah a dynamic nonprofit incubator that offers fiscal sponsorship,
(01:10):
technical assistance, and strategic support to emerging charitable projects and
under resource nonprofits. So, Amanda, thank you so much for
joining me today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:22):
This episode of Demystifying Money with Misty Lynch is proudly
sponsored by Soundview Financial Advisors. Visit www dot Soundview financial
Advisors dot com to learn more.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think that there's a lot of good work that
comes out of the nonprofit space, but I do know
that lately in the current you know, currently, we're seeing,
you know, a lot of changes as far as funding
and government grants and things like that. So just from
your perspective, what is the current state for nonprofits? And
how can people who have an interest or maybe they
(02:00):
have started one, but they're feeling like a little bit
confused or maybe anxious with what's going on. What are
you seeing from your perspective when it comes to nonprofit
work today?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That is such a great question. There's a lot going
on in the nonprofit space right now, so kind of
from a macro level, the nonprofit environment has faced a
lot of shifting landscape and challenges and unknowns this year alone,
which feels like fifty years one year. Yeah, yeah, so
(02:33):
you know, right from the get go, the start of
this year in the current administration, we heard a lot
in the news and in the nonprofit sector about executive
orders that very much specifically targeted the nonprofit sector, and
we saw, you know, I can't remember it was earlier
in the year, maybe the first quarter, we saw news
articles that were very real about federal grants that were
(02:57):
pledged to nonprofits across the United States, small and large,
that were frozen. That a lot of nonprofits were uncertain
if they could get the funds that there were promised
by the federal government. So there was a freeze that
went into place that was very confusing, very destabilizing. And
then kind of now, you know, with the current government shutdown,
(03:18):
there's nothing being processed, there's no applications being taken, there's
no five toh one C three nonprofit applications being reviewed
or accepted. So there's really a lot going on in
the world that is very much making you know, the
financial future of a lot of nonprofits quite uncertain. But
I think what's amazing about nonprofits is that, you know,
(03:42):
most nonprofit leaders we come from uncertain times ourselves, Like
most nonprofits are started by people that come here through
a lived experience or some challenge that they have gone through.
So if they've gone through that challenge and now they've
decided to create an organization that not only helps other
people but creates a livelihood for themselves, they kind of
(04:04):
come equipped already with a certain malleability that they're able
to shift, that they're able to problem solve. So I
think even in certain times, if you got the right
leadership in place, they're able to pivot and keep things
going along.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I think that's a great point that most, you know,
nonprofit leaders like, they're not coming from an easy path.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
It's not necessarily like.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
The you know, the path of least resistance when it
comes to making a living or doing work. But can
you share how did you get started in this nonprofit
space and what led you to founding your business.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, so this is actually my third nonprofit organization I started.
My first one was very informal, grassroots. I was like
baking cupcakes with my dear friend Brooke back in Denver
and we would sell cupcakes at PrideFest in Denver, and
it was to raise money for marriage equality until it
became legal and then we no longer needed to do that.
(04:59):
Hopefully we won't to be doing that again in the future. Again,
it was a very grassroots thing. It was nothing formal, like,
we never applied for nonprofit status. We were just out
there fundraising and then donating those proceeds. The second organization
I started was much more formal. That was the International
Association for pre Menstrual Disorders. And again, as I mentioned,
(05:19):
a lot of people's start nonprofits because they have some
lived experience. So I had gone through my own mental
health challenges and I didn't see an organization that was
specifically helping women with reproductive or hormone based mental health challenges.
So I was able to connect to the other amazing
women really around the world that were also struggling with
(05:40):
those same things. And we started this organization in twenty
fourteen and it's still going strong today. But I will say,
you know, during those many first years, you know, like
so many other people, I came to this nonprofit space
without any experience. I didn't go to college to run
a nonprofit. I didn't work for for another nonprofit. It
(06:01):
was just I wanted to make a change, and I
had to learn very quickly on the fly so much
about just nonprofit business. Yeah, So having gone through that experience,
after about sixty eight years of being there with that organization,
I really wanted to create another nonprofit or another organization
that could help other individuals with my same experience of
(06:25):
just trying to start a nonprofit but not having any
nonprofit experience. So was there a time when you noticed
that huge gap that was emerging with like how nonprofits
are supported, especially around like their financial systems and their stability.
Where I mean, were people coming to you for help?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Like how did you decide like, actually, this, this piece
of it is a business by itself that should be operational,
Like was there something that happened or continued to happen
that led you there?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I mean, yeah, just the on I would just say,
you know, just the I was very lucky in the
IP and D that I was surrounded by other amazing
women that had varying degrees of their own nonprofit or
business experience. And to be fair to myself, I did
come from the small business world. I had other small
(07:11):
for profit businesses I had started in the ten years
leading up to starting my first nonprofit, So I had
some varying level of experience, our board present, other people
that were involved. But I think what we experienced as
an organization, what I continue to see in the work
I'm doing today is just really widespread, like financial literacy
(07:33):
when it comes to running a business. And I'm going
to speak mostly today about nonprofit financial literacy, you know,
because it's at the end of the day, whether it's
for profit or nonprofit, it's very much the same. You
need to make money to stay open, keep your doors open. Yeah,
but I think financial literacy has been a huge challenge
(07:54):
that I see all the time as across the sector
and the varying programs we helped. And then capacity, a
lot of nonprofit organizations lack the human and financial capacity
to help their organizations grow.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, that's definitely a big part, even like you said,
the similarities between for profit business and like a lot
of times there's somebody who has an amazing idea amazing product,
amazing service, and those issues with that financial literacy part
and capacity can impact everybody. But what are some of
the economic struggles that you see as far as nonprofits go,
(08:31):
like with their funding cycles, grants and overhead. What are
some of those you know, what are some things that
organizations can start to think about, like day one, when
it comes to the financial side of running a nonprofit yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So something that we do at NOBI is called fiscal sponsorship, okay,
and it is a practice where we, as a nonprofit
established a nonprofit organization, can adopt other informal or registered nonprofits.
It doesn't matter where they are, if they have designation
or not, and we can provide to them a lot
(09:06):
of the things that someone just starting out really needs
to be thinking about. And this is going to be
a long laundry list, and I think, what are those
the highlights? So I'm going to put on one side,
like we had a table in front of us, like
all the pieces we need to build a nonprofit. There's
going to be one plate that is full of compliance,
(09:28):
and that is your state registrations, your federal registrations, YadA, YadA, YadA.
That is all on one plate. The next plate is
going to be what I'll call your tech stack, and
that is going to be like, what is your bookkeeping platform?
How are we going to manage money in and money out?
And for a lot of most nonprofits that ends up
being something like QuickBooks. And then you got to have
(09:49):
things like we're going to have email addresses, so an
administrative technical that most nonprofits to use like a Google
workspace for nonprofits. There's so much more on that plate.
It's a huge play. But you want to think about
what technology is your organization going to be built upon,
because that's huge. You've got to keep track of every
donation that comes in and out, where our organization's going
(10:11):
through our first audit and they want every receipt, every
piece of paper. That's all your tech stack. You got
to keep that together. And then the other plate is
going to be how are we going to fund this?
And there's probably other pieces on the table like what
is our our what we've changed, what is our mission?
How are we going to do this? Who are the
people who are going to be doing that. There's so
(10:33):
many plates on this table. But yeah, so when you're
starting out, you've got to kind of think about all
of these things. Where fiscal sponsorship can help is fiscal
sponsorship already has the table made and set. You're just
joining the table. We have a chair for you. You can
come and join our table and we've got everything ready
(10:54):
to go and you can just focus on your mission
and grow from there. As far as the financial side,
I know I'm saying a lot in one part here,
but the financial piece I really want people to think about,
is the days of starting a nonprofit with the consumption like, oh,
we're going to get grants like that is not the
I don't know if it ever actually works that way,
(11:14):
to be honest, from the beginning, because most grant makers
like a foundation, So take like the Boston Foundation for example,
or any type of corporate foundation like a lot of
banks have foundations. They are looking to give grants to
organizations that have been around for at least three years.
So when you're starting a nonprofit and you're thinking about
(11:35):
how are we going to fund this, it's not going
to be grants to start, Okay. Having said that, I
definitely see nonprofits get started with grants like accelerate accelerator
grants or a seed funding. It's not impossible, but most
want to see three at least three years of some
success activity. So the other the other part of that
(11:57):
that is really changed, especially this year, is federal grants. Again,
they're very unpredictable at this time, They're very limited. There's
so many executive orders that have come out that, while
don't change law, make the application process very uncertain and
very kind of like not a guarantee. So we're really
(12:18):
taking federal grants off the table. State grants do still exist,
so that is another viable source. State funding is still
available for a lot of things, especially you're in Massachusetts.
Are your listeners mostly here in Massachusetts most of them are.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
We do have people in other parts, but mostly Yeah,
in the United States, where I think state wide you
can kind of look to your state and get that
information too and think about it, especially if, like you said,
if the federal grant side is just limited, narrow, maybe
confusing at this point, so not a guarantee, But that's
interesting about it makes sense that other larger organizations that
(12:54):
are giving money out through there, you know, are looking
for someone who's been around for three years and has
that level of you know, experience or you know, because
starting out like a new nonprofit, it's a relatively I'm
guessing the beginning is kind of a shaky time when
it comes to, you know, being fragile financially as far
(13:14):
as you know, a business is concern. So I think
that having that fiscal sponsorship sounds like, I don't know,
other firms might have, you know, associations that kind of
help you get all the things that you need.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Other things that kind of because.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I imagine that if people want to start a nonprofit their
first thought is not regulations and compliance, right, No, totally not,
they are, especially if they haven't worked in a regulated industry,
because you're in a highly regulated industry.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Correct, yes, everybody.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Is actually in Massachusetts, especially here.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, it is very important where like that is such
a big piece of it. That is really like learning
a whole nother language in some ways. So I think
that is, you know, I think that's really important. What
are some other like money moves that you think like
businesses can do first to kind of start to build
some resilience or to kind of you know, make sure
(14:09):
that they're ready to launch or to get started.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah. Well, I will tell you this based on my
own experience and what I've seen the work that we do.
You know, when it comes to nonprofit work, and this
is what I think comes to mind for a lot
of people in outside of the nonprofit space or transitioning
to the nonprofit space, is that a lot of it
is done for free, or it's donated or no one
should be paid. And that couldn't be further from the
truth the nonprofit sector. You know, it's called the third
(14:35):
sector for a reason. It's support. I don't have the
numbers off the top of my mind, but it is.
It supports the livelihood of so many people. So something
to really think about when you're getting started is one
building a budget. And it's okay because if you just
don't know all the hard numbers, it's about making educated
guesses a budget. Budgets are like you know, business plans,
(14:56):
They're meant to be changed. They're a roadmap and you're
you're going to change as you learn and as you're developing.
But something I really like to tell people is, you know, yes,
you can start your nonprofit tomorrow. You can just start
doing good work. Say you want to, you know, help
people facing homelessness here in Boston. You could literally go
out in the street and just start doing that. But
(15:18):
is that sustainable in the long term. If you're not
getting compensated for your time, if you don't have access
to financial and human resources or other resources that you need,
it's not sustainable. You're not going to get to do
that for very long. So I think when you're getting started,
you know, one of the biggest things to think about
is building that budget and then planning or how are
you going to pay the person or people that are
(15:41):
going to be running it and doing the work. I
think that especially. Yeah, absolutely, and so one thing I
left off too, and the last question you said, I'm
thinking about funding again talking about how do we fund
the leadership and the administrative cost of doing nonprofit work
is you know, phedogrants might not be the an option
right now. Corporate and state grants typically want to see
(16:04):
three years, although if you have a fiscal sponsor that
accelerates that kind of three year limit because you've got
a larger organization behind you. But you're going to be
looking for individual donations, so that could start with your family,
your friends, people in your community, people with a personal
connection to the work that you're doing. So this kind
of like if you think of money in a cake form.
(16:24):
You've got your individual contributions, your grants, and the other
thing to really learn about is large donors and large gifts,
and those will be identifying like maybe one to five,
maybe three large donors, and those are people we're talking
like a ten thousand dollars donation, a twenty thousand dollars donation.
That is really going to be the biggest part of
(16:49):
that cake. Someone described it to me so well, I
love cake, so.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It makes sense, like you can see how layers yeah, yeah,
and layers of and like fun, who doesn't want the cake?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But yeah, it's really thinking about how are we going
to diverse by our revenue. We're not going to count
on just alone on grants, We're not going to count
just alone on individual contributions. Another thing to diversify and
koume a lot of revenue that a lot of people
don't think about with nonprofits because we hear nonprofit and
think no money. But the truth of it is another
way to diverse by your revenue is developing revenue streams
(17:25):
like consulting or technical assistance. You can actually charge for
those services. So that's another great way to bring in
financial sustainability to a nonprofit.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Those are great tips and I think that Yeah, there's
a lot of different things you know, you can do.
I know some clients are very charitable and general. You know,
there's a lot of people who would you know, if
a mission or a call or something speaks to them
like these donations are something they could do. You know,
especially at some of the retirees, you know they have
to take money out of their accounts at a certain age,
(17:57):
and sometimes they go to their charities, the law, the charities,
the causes that they care about for a tax reasons
and also because it feels good to, you know, make
these donations while you're living, you know, instead of feeling
like at some point, you know people will inherit this money,
but to put it to work feels really good. So
a lot of people are becoming definitely have always been
(18:18):
charitably inclined, but I think it is I just think
it's important that you point it out different ways to
build the revenue stream because I'd imagine that it's hard
for nonprofit leaders not to feel compelled to chase down
every dollar, even if it means kind of pulling them
away from their mission because of that pressure to build.
So how do you help people stay true to their
(18:40):
mission and kind of build that sustainable finance like you
mentioned with the cake, but is attempting to just try
to go to whoever is paying at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I mean it's I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie.
I've written so many grants in my lifetime and I'm
not a grant writer, and this is you know, grant
writers they're very talented, skilled people who just write grants
for a living. That is a job unto itself. And
with you know AI Generative AI, that has really closed
the knowledge gap where it's made it possible for more
(19:11):
people without a master's or PhD to write a grant.
But at the end of the day, it's a numbers game.
So the more people you ask for donations, the more
donations you're going to get, and the more grant applications
you're submitting. The rule I've always kind of based it
on is like for every ten no's, you're going to
get one yes, yea. So it is. This is the
other thing about running a nonprofit is I don't know
(19:33):
if thick skin is the right word, but like you
have to have a sense of like fortitude unlike no
other And maybe you know, from the for profit side
it might be the same, but I know as a
nonprofit in my experience, it is. You know, it's pushing
that boulder up the hill, just to have it roll
back down on you and be like, oh, we made
some money. Oh no, that money's all gone and down
(19:55):
we've lost that. So it's continuing to push the boulder.
It is continuing to apply for grant when you've gotten
a million no's, it's continuing to put yourself out there
to ask for donations in creative ways or one on ones. Yeah,
it's just you know, it's a never ending battle. But
I will say this too about grants. Those are a
(20:16):
lot of those are built on relationships. So yes, you
can write one hundred grand applications to maybe get like
one or two yes's, but it's really about building relationships
with those grant makers and remembering that there are individuals
that are approving those grants just like you the individual
that is applying for it. So find out who is
(20:38):
the executive director of the foundation you want to apply to.
Look at nonprofits that are doing similar work to yours
and see who their funders are, and get to know
those people. They are so used to getting emails of
just hi, my name is, here's what I'm building, here's
why our mission aligns with yours. I'd love to see
(20:59):
if we could, you know, meet for a coffee or
a virtual meet or just share more about what we're
doing and just building that relationship that will lead to
way more grant adding and large support.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Such a good point, and I remember when I was,
you know, going to college. I applied for like every
scholarship on the face of the serf, and I got
a bunch of them. And I even talk with people now,
like there's a lot of there's a lot of businesses.
There's a lot of small businesses that give out small
scholarships for people, and some people say, no one's applying,
(21:30):
like and so I feel like for a college that's
such a big expense where people are thinking, Okay, if
it's not a twenty thousand, I don't I shouldn't even
bother with these one two, three times. But I feel
like there's a difference between that mindset and I think
that is these nonprofit you know, these leaders don't take
it personally the nose or the ghosts and just like
(21:52):
consider it like that a job inside itself where you
have to keep you have to keep trying, and you
have to keep reaching out and you have to keep connecting.
If you get one no, like, you have to continue
to follow up, keep like keep trying, because I do
feel like a lot of times people are just busy
or they're caught at the wrong time, but it's hard
not to take everything personally and feel like Okay, you're
(22:13):
not interested, and we don't want to hear no, Like
you're gonna have to hear no a lot, and like
you'll hear yeses as well. But I feel like that
is just putting in like like reps, like exercise, like
you just have to like just keep keep going and
like and then the bigger ones because I feel like,
and I don't know if this is in every space,
(22:34):
but I feel like once you start getting some donors,
like I'm sure that it feels easier at own point
to get more yeses and more more interest when someone's interested,
like kind of in the in the VST in the
venture capital space and the investor's side, Like it seems
that way in the in the private sector that once
once people are interested, like oh now everybody's curious. And
so I think that that could be hard, hard work,
(22:58):
but like a lot of work in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, you make such a good point about like it's
almost like the law of attractions, so and having an
abundance mindset. I would say that's probably one of my
own biggest growth points in the last couple of years
in the space, is like in nonprofits especially, it's really
easy to have a scarcity mindset of like, we have
no money, we're counting every penny. We don't want to
spend anything. Everything needs to be donated. I promise you
(23:22):
if you start having an abundance mindset where you start
getting donations or you start getting one or two grants,
you look more fundable and sustainable. To other people, they're like, oh,
this is a legit thing, Like you're actually making a difference.
I can see you growing. I see this happening, and
it does attract more. It really does. People start You'll
(23:43):
start getting more grants, You'll start getting more donations. I mean,
it's just you start doing a B and C, D
and E will have it.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah. No, And I think that that's that is so true.
And I think a lot of people, you know, especially
like you mentioned that nonprofit, like that scarcity mindset. It's
almost like I think sometimes people who have had to struggle,
like it feels more like a badge, Like it almost
feels strange, like getting all these big dollars.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Coming in when like, oh, but you know, like that.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Hustle scrap kind of mentality. But I think it is
really important for the business to start to adopt that
abundance mindset and think about what is possible instead of like, oh,
you know, we're struggling because that's kind of what we're
supposed to be doing. Like I don't think that that's
necessarily the right mindset for people who are trying to
help as many people as possible.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's so true. This comes up all the time, Like
there's been this common misconception the nonprofit space that you
shouldn't like a good nonprofit doesn't spend more than three
percent on over on overhead or administrative cost. That is
ridiculous and unsustainable. And anybody who's saying they spend three
percent is absolutely not being truthful. Yes, because the cost
to keep your doors open is a real cost and
it's way more than three percent. So when you when
(24:55):
nonprofits are given general support and not like restricted giving
is the worst ever because not profit should be trusted
to know where to spend the money that they get.
But when you're given general support and you're able to
invest in a fundraiser or invest in a grant writer,
or invest in a marketing budget, that's when the abundance
(25:16):
really starts happening, and you put it really well, there's
like almost a badge of honor for the least money
you spend. But that's not true if you're not if
you have no more money and you're closing your doors,
you're helping no one, not a soul.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Yeah, it's so important. It is.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
It is tricky, and it is kind of like, but
I got into this work to like not to go
to the big corporate and all the you know, but
I think it is important to use their money, use
how money you don't want to go.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, they have millions of dollars in foundations that needs
to be used. So use their money for good instead
of for evil.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
To me, I think that that makes sense because yeah,
just relying on one of those things, just relying on
individual donors, like just relying like that, that does make
things a little bit you know, unstable from a foundation.
So I think you know, if you have, say that
you are starting out, or you for one way or
the other, are on a tight budget, what are some
of the best practices that every like growing nonprofit should
(26:14):
try to implement on that end.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Oh that's such a bad question.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh wow, Like, hey, you mentioned budget before, which I
think is super important. Every everybody, every business.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Should have a budget.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
It's just it doesn't necessarily mean you have to cut everything.
But also I don't know if this is true in
your space, but I feel like when I have a budget,
I know what i'd want to do next when there's opportunity.
So maybe you can't afford certain things in a nonprofit now,
but where would you push money once it starts coming
(26:47):
in to grow? So I feel like that just having
a good idea of the numbers is really important. But
are there any other kind of practices that like, either
they have to do if they want to stay in
business from a regular door or side, or that you
think that they should start to do just to kind
of even if things are tight at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, that's such a great question. So my instant answer
is investing in leadership. I think there's no way for
an organization to sustain or grow if you're not financially
supporting the living, like a livable wage for the leadership
that they are able to do that work either part
(27:27):
time until it's necessary to become full time or on
a full time basis. Because if leadership is volunteering and
they are needing to have a full time job too
for their own liveability, like that's not sustainable. So you know,
a lot of things in the nonprofit world are are donated.
There is a lot of incredible organizations out there, like
(27:50):
tech Soup, like Catch a Fire. You know, if you
go to not to this is just shameless plug. There's
lots of websites like ours, So you can google any
of this. You don't have to come to the Nobee
dot org. But you know we've got all these listed
as well. But just run a Google search, you know,
Google Google themselves they have a ten thousand dollars monthly
(28:10):
grant to any nonprofit for advertising. Another podcast that's changing
advertising landscape with at but anyway, So just there's a
lot out there that is replaceable by free things. People
are not, so I think, really, if you're going to
build a budget for anything, is build a budget to
pay your leadership so that they whether it's one person
(28:34):
or two people, they are able to sustain and grow
the organization. Everything else can typically be donated.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, that's such a good point because I think you're right.
If people are working full time somewhere else in volunteers
like that, maybe their heart isn't it.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
But they have to pay the bills, they have to survive.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Like that it's just not going to be the priority
when it comes down to it, because it can't be yeah,
until they're able to really feel supported by it. So
that's such a good point. I'm curious when it comes
to like fundraising grants and partnerships, what are some like
pitfalls that you see that organization space maybe before they
(29:11):
get to you, Like, what are some ways that people
maybe you know, get it wrong when it comes to
that that part of it to try to get that
funding in the door, Like, is anything that you would
have tell people, like, you know that there's some common
things that you see people start out doing that maybe, Oh,
it's a good question, But I feel like I feel
(29:32):
like a nonprofit world is such a special space. I
feel like there's so much like highness and understanding that
people come from very different backgrounds and very very different
experiences and different levels of education and access, you know,
I think couple. I feel like it's less the responsibility
(29:53):
of the individual to get it right, it's more of
the responsibility and the changes being adopted by grant makers
that they are starting to lower the barrier and the access.
Where I was saying before, you know, to be your
grant writer, you have like people with PhDs writing these
things because you have to use the smart principle, you know, specific, measurable,
attainable like all those things that if not everybody doesn't
(30:14):
know that, and so you know, I think grant makers
really creating avenues that lower the barriers to funding.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's less on the individual. I think again, if you
are an earnest person, you're an honest person, you deeply
care about what you were doing, and you're you're open
to building relationships, you know.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah, no, that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think that's that's good to note because I feel
like sometimes maybe in in you know, for profit businesses,
we try to maybe buy a coach that will get
us where we want to go, or a service or
like some sort of advertising package, and then people are
like they feel burned by that. But I guess yes,
(31:00):
if you're not starting out with like a lot of
money to spend, you're really trying to like you're putting
your like you're putting yourself in like that that that
kindness and that level of like interaction I think maybe
would benefit people. You know, because if you have a
fundraiser that flops, like okay, it probably wasn't like your
one huge expense that you were going to try to do.
(31:21):
But and that's interesting with the grant writing because are
there any things that, like, say, people don't have the
budget to hire a grant writer and they're doing them
on their own.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Are there any.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Mistakes that people made because you mentioned like some of
the AI tools are there, but are they catching on
to what is just done by an AI tool.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
When it comes to giving out these grants.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Or most grant makers are very aware when they're they're like, yeah,
A I wrote this, and I'll tell you something interesting.
In my work, because I interface with nonprofit leaders like
sixty times a day in my inbox, I can tell
when they have been writing me in their voice and
then when they switch to AI and start writing to
me and listen, I have an AI tool that helps
(32:03):
me manage my inbox. Were customer service oriented. There's a
lot of emails we repeat a lot of the same information.
It makes me sad when I do see people like
AI watching their voice. It removes who they are as
a person, It removes their cultural experience and background. It
just sanitizes it so much. And I think it happens
(32:26):
because we want to get funded by the other party,
and we are assuming this is what the funder wants
to hear, this is what the person we're asked we
have an ASKA wants to hear. I think it's really important.
Even with the avent of AI and all that it
can do to close the gap between the knowledge gap
(32:47):
that exists out there, the experienced gaps that exist out there,
it still stay true to your why. So if you
are a person, say that is wanting to start a
program in your community to help people in recovery and
connect them to resources you're going to help out with
these people, stay true to your why. Like I heard
(33:08):
this thing the other day that was like, don't ever
start your elevator pitch with I help people, blah blah blah.
And I was like like, wait, wait, I got to
change my whole thing by hearing that is true.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
It's like you know what you do?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, Like when I talked to somebody and they're like,
you know, after you know, I lost my I lost
my cousin to drug addiction, and I just it broke
my heart so badly and it touched our family so deeply.
All I want to do is honor their name and
and you know, help others that are going through recovery
like that is, you share that story with individual donors,
(33:41):
with grant makers, with really anybody that you were trying
to ask to support your work, whether financially or in
kind by donating their time or services. You know, lead
with your why, your personal story, and that even comes
from writing your grant. Yes, your grant makers are going
to be still out for things like, well, how what
(34:02):
is the challenge you're trying to you what's the challenge
you've identified, How are you going to overcome that challenge?
What is your your process to do so, what is
the timeline in which you're going to do it, and
how are you going to measure those results. That's where
AI can come in and help fill in those parts
of the application. But sticking to your mission, sticking to
your why is really really important.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It's the And it's funny because I've heard this in
so many different areas, Like when I was talking to
somebody about SEO search and I was talking about them
like other topics where we're talking about, you know, the
changes that AI is making, and it is important to
like use it as a tool to like find these grants,
use it as a tool to like figure out some
of the like that can be super helpful and time
(34:46):
seeing like you mentioned the emails and things like that,
but like it's starting to like search and everything is
starting to favor the human part that can't be done
by AI, the story, the why, those reasons, and so
I feel like if you can find a way to
like balance that, I think that could be a really
(35:06):
helpful way to use the technology that's there.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
And but also knowing that, like like you said, if
you said, I help people in recovery, find like, okay,
you know, like I guess that you know, it's there's others,
but I feel like that that personal piece of it
and that why is really what can kind of help
these you know, nonprofits go grow and exist and help
(35:29):
with people because it is really it's really fantastic, you know,
some of the work that these.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
You know, nonprofits are doing.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Do you have any success stories that you have with
some of the nonprofits that you've worked with.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
That you love?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank too? Oh my gosh, okay, so I love the
work way too. At Nobie. I'll talk about a little
bit about fithical sponsorship. So we did start in twenty
seventeen as a nonprofit incubator, and it was truly we
were like building websites to help people like start accepting donations.
It was really low stakes at the time, you know,
we weren't like doing what we're doing today. So and
(36:04):
like people, a lot of people go to the nonprofit
space with no nonprofit experience. People in nonprofits baseball and
a fyscal sponsorship with zero fiscal sponsorship experience. But what
we do here at NOBI, we have about fifty five
different informal nonprofits, meaning they don't have their own nonprofit
status with the government and grassroots organization individuals. So our
(36:29):
portfolio is about fifty five different projects. We manage three
to four million dollars in donations every year, accepting and
distributing those funds for these nonprofits to use, and it
is awesome. I got to tell you, I have a
very hard time saying known to anyone who applies to
our program, and I have to get my better has
(36:51):
at the organization to tell me, like stop taking on projects.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
But the reason I love it.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
So much and it's hard to say no is because
when you I have seen organizations, oh my gosh, I
want to pick a couple. I want to talk about
rivers and roads in Maine. Let me talk about them.
These are two incredible women that started a program in
rural Maine to help kids after school, and they have
(37:17):
just been working so hard for the last three years
to get funding. And they've done it through individual donations,
personal donations, volunteering their own time. I mean, they have
done it all. They have been scrappy as all get out.
They've reached that three year milestone and they are getting
grants left and right this year to grow their work.
(37:38):
Their staff is finally getting paid, they're able to hire
this year. Like it's just seeing that life cycle repeated
over and over again. When you've got people that are
deeply passionate about what they're doing, they're finding the support
and resources, whether it's a fiscal sponsor, people in their community,
you know, just that are willing to give them their
(37:59):
time and advise them. I want to just put it
in a side in this story because I know this
was their experience. In a lot of people's experience, they
will go immediately and think, we need a lawyer. We
need a lawyer to help us set this up. We
need a lawyer to advise US. Lawyers do have their place,
they understand the law, but when it comes to setting
up a nonprofit, so much of that information is already
(38:21):
out there. And again this is where AI can help.
But even before AI, this information is out there on
how to do it yourself or have a fiscal sponsor help.
You don't put money aside for a lawyer, like just
at that stage unless you're doing something extremely high risk.
You just don't know that, like just thinking about where
finances are. But anyway, that wasn't a side of a
success story. I just I've seen so many amazing organization
(38:44):
people just come through our organization and others that you know,
they've really stuck with it. They lasted those three years
and now they've really got the financial support they need
to keep going and growing.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
That must be so exciting to be able to be
a part of that. I mean, even like I can
imagine it is hard to say no because it's not like, oh, hey,
I want to like get this so I can like
create like a more efficient like process, like I want
to help kids after school like that.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
You know, like they're probably like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I'm sure there's a lot of reasons why they want
to do this work and they've maybe had an impact
in some kids' lives and then felt like this could
be bigger, this could be more, there could be more
people to help. So I love that that like and
also again I feel like that's where that abundance mindset
comes in, like finding the right partners and then being like, Okay,
now at three years, maybe everybody's going to want to
have some sort of attachment or impact or be able
(39:36):
to help these organizations as they grow, because as they mature,
I feel like, yeah, you feel like, okay, this is
I know where my money's going to go when I
donate it, I know who's doing the work, I know
how I'm going to help people, which is just a
really nice way to kind of giving money. And I
will say this from the financial planning, it is one
of the better ways to feel good about your money.
Even giving a dollar out to somebody or giving any
(39:57):
money out at all. It feels different than spend it
on yourself, and there's research behind it, so like I
think that it is you know, I think it's something
like for everybody to kind of feel like, okay, where
you know, what do you outside of work, outside of
everything else in your life, What do you care about?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
What would you want to support, whether.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
It's sharing their posts if you have no money to give,
or doing something to kind of support them in other ways.
That is one of you know, behavioral finance wise, one
of the fastest ways to feel better about your own
financial situation. So beside there, but it is it is
super important to know. So how can listeners learn more
about you and the NOPEE and engage with your resources
(40:39):
if this is something that's really spoken to them.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, absolutely. Our website is the no P T T
n OPI dot org. I will say fiscal sponsor practices
like ours. It's a lot of us are at capacity
because it's becoming such a more well known resource for
people starting out in it with a nonprofit. But we
do an open office hours every Thursday from eleven am
(41:04):
to one pm Eastern and you don't have to be
fisically sponsored by us. Anyone can come and myself, my coworkers,
we can signpost you to resources, we can talk about
our work that we do and how we can help.
But that's a great resource. And then also you know,
just checking out your like Massachusetts Nonprofit Network is another
(41:25):
great resource. But anyway, about talking about ours. We're at capacity,
a lot of fiscal sponsors at capacity, but you can
still fill out our application if you're looking for a
fiscal sponsor. We've got a wait list until after the
new year currently. But one thing I do want to
say too, when you're first starting out, there are fiscal
sponsors that will work with you from I have an
(41:45):
idea phase, from the idea phase a lot or like ours,
we're about a mid sized fiscal sponsor. You need to
be a a little bit further along before we'll take
you on. But there's also dedicated nonprofit incubators that are
a great resources. And the one that always kinds to
my mocking Bird Nonprofit Incubator or beg one to check
out awesome.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Thank you so much for sharing that information.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I feel like there's a lot of people that have this,
this experience or something that's calling them to do something more,
but with that confusion around it and the uncertainty, I
think it's really important to.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Know who to go to that space.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And I love that you have those open office hours
for people because that could just be maybe it's even
just listening in on one call or joining and getting
pointed in the right direction that can really lead things
down very interesting paths. So thank you so much Amanda
for joining me. Thank and thank you everyone for listening.
If you're looking to see how you can include some
more charitable giving in your budget or figure out how
(42:39):
you can potentially take this idea you have or something
and turn it into a nonprofit, I'd love to speak
with you more about it. Head over to Missy Lynch
dot com where you can reach out to me directly,
or you can listen to more episodes of the podcast.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
I do have one on brandt writing that I did
with mossa Pond and it's a completely.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Different set of tools, super interesting, so you can catch
up on Oh that's just the podcast.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
And thanks for joining. We'll talk again next week.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Thank you for joining us on another insightful episode of
demonst Buying Money.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
If you enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Please subscribe, rate and leave a review. Stay tuned for
more engaging conversations on our next episode, and remember knowledge
is the key to financial empowerment.
Welcome to the demist Defying Money podcast, where each week
you will hear unforgettable conversations with expert guests about success, money, business,
and small steps you can take to elevate your life
and wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Now here's your host, Misty Lynch.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining us for
this episode of Demistifying Money. We're going to talk about
the nonprofit space today.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
This is something that's come up.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
With a lot of clients that I've talked to people
who are interested in either starting a nonprofit working with
a nonprofit, but there is so much confusion about how
they work, how they operate, and how people actually make
a living and make a profit working in the nonprofit space.
So I invited my friend Amandela Floor, she's the founder
(00:46):
and the executive director of the Nonprofit Organization for Philanthropic
Initiatives also known as NOBE with the rest of the
podcast because that's a lot to say, and she has
created really a business that helps people in this space,
which I think is super smart and so needed. And
she has yeah a dynamic nonprofit incubator that offers fiscal sponsorship,
(01:10):
technical assistance, and strategic support to emerging charitable projects and
under resource nonprofits. So, Amanda, thank you so much for
joining me today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:22):
This episode of Demystifying Money with Misty Lynch is proudly
sponsored by Soundview Financial Advisors. Visit www dot Soundview financial
Advisors dot com to learn more.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think that there's a lot of good work that
comes out of the nonprofit space, but I do know
that lately in the current you know, currently, we're seeing,
you know, a lot of changes as far as funding
and government grants and things like that. So just from
your perspective, what is the current state for nonprofits? And
how can people who have an interest or maybe they
(02:00):
have started one, but they're feeling like a little bit
confused or maybe anxious with what's going on. What are
you seeing from your perspective when it comes to nonprofit
work today?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That is such a great question. There's a lot going
on in the nonprofit space right now, so kind of
from a macro level, the nonprofit environment has faced a
lot of shifting landscape and challenges and unknowns this year alone,
which feels like fifty years one year. Yeah, yeah, so
(02:33):
you know, right from the get go, the start of
this year in the current administration, we heard a lot
in the news and in the nonprofit sector about executive
orders that very much specifically targeted the nonprofit sector, and
we saw, you know, I can't remember it was earlier
in the year, maybe the first quarter, we saw news
articles that were very real about federal grants that were
(02:57):
pledged to nonprofits across the United States, small and large,
that were frozen. That a lot of nonprofits were uncertain
if they could get the funds that there were promised
by the federal government. So there was a freeze that
went into place that was very confusing, very destabilizing. And
then kind of now, you know, with the current government shutdown,
(03:18):
there's nothing being processed, there's no applications being taken, there's
no five toh one C three nonprofit applications being reviewed
or accepted. So there's really a lot going on in
the world that is very much making you know, the
financial future of a lot of nonprofits quite uncertain. But
I think what's amazing about nonprofits is that, you know,
(03:42):
most nonprofit leaders we come from uncertain times ourselves, Like
most nonprofits are started by people that come here through
a lived experience or some challenge that they have gone through.
So if they've gone through that challenge and now they've
decided to create an organization that not only helps other
people but creates a livelihood for themselves, they kind of
(04:04):
come equipped already with a certain malleability that they're able
to shift, that they're able to problem solve. So I
think even in certain times, if you got the right
leadership in place, they're able to pivot and keep things
going along.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I think that's a great point that most, you know,
nonprofit leaders like, they're not coming from an easy path.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
It's not necessarily like.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
The you know, the path of least resistance when it
comes to making a living or doing work. But can
you share how did you get started in this nonprofit
space and what led you to founding your business.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, so this is actually my third nonprofit organization I started.
My first one was very informal, grassroots. I was like
baking cupcakes with my dear friend Brooke back in Denver
and we would sell cupcakes at PrideFest in Denver, and
it was to raise money for marriage equality until it
became legal and then we no longer needed to do that.
(04:59):
Hopefully we won't to be doing that again in the future. Again,
it was a very grassroots thing. It was nothing formal, like,
we never applied for nonprofit status. We were just out
there fundraising and then donating those proceeds. The second organization
I started was much more formal. That was the International
Association for pre Menstrual Disorders. And again, as I mentioned,
(05:19):
a lot of people's start nonprofits because they have some
lived experience. So I had gone through my own mental
health challenges and I didn't see an organization that was
specifically helping women with reproductive or hormone based mental health challenges.
So I was able to connect to the other amazing
women really around the world that were also struggling with
(05:40):
those same things. And we started this organization in twenty
fourteen and it's still going strong today. But I will say,
you know, during those many first years, you know, like
so many other people, I came to this nonprofit space
without any experience. I didn't go to college to run
a nonprofit. I didn't work for for another nonprofit. It
(06:01):
was just I wanted to make a change, and I
had to learn very quickly on the fly so much
about just nonprofit business. Yeah, So having gone through that experience,
after about sixty eight years of being there with that organization,
I really wanted to create another nonprofit or another organization
that could help other individuals with my same experience of
(06:25):
just trying to start a nonprofit but not having any
nonprofit experience. So was there a time when you noticed
that huge gap that was emerging with like how nonprofits
are supported, especially around like their financial systems and their stability.
Where I mean, were people coming to you for help?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Like how did you decide like, actually, this, this piece
of it is a business by itself that should be operational,
Like was there something that happened or continued to happen
that led you there?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I mean, yeah, just the on I would just say,
you know, just the I was very lucky in the
IP and D that I was surrounded by other amazing
women that had varying degrees of their own nonprofit or
business experience. And to be fair to myself, I did
come from the small business world. I had other small
(07:11):
for profit businesses I had started in the ten years
leading up to starting my first nonprofit, So I had
some varying level of experience, our board present, other people
that were involved. But I think what we experienced as
an organization, what I continue to see in the work
I'm doing today is just really widespread, like financial literacy
(07:33):
when it comes to running a business. And I'm going
to speak mostly today about nonprofit financial literacy, you know,
because it's at the end of the day, whether it's
for profit or nonprofit, it's very much the same. You
need to make money to stay open, keep your doors open. Yeah,
but I think financial literacy has been a huge challenge
(07:54):
that I see all the time as across the sector
and the varying programs we helped. And then capacity, a
lot of nonprofit organizations lack the human and financial capacity
to help their organizations grow.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, that's definitely a big part, even like you said,
the similarities between for profit business and like a lot
of times there's somebody who has an amazing idea amazing product,
amazing service, and those issues with that financial literacy part
and capacity can impact everybody. But what are some of
the economic struggles that you see as far as nonprofits go,
(08:31):
like with their funding cycles, grants and overhead. What are
some of those you know, what are some things that
organizations can start to think about, like day one, when
it comes to the financial side of running a nonprofit yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So something that we do at NOBI is called fiscal sponsorship, okay,
and it is a practice where we, as a nonprofit
established a nonprofit organization, can adopt other informal or registered nonprofits.
It doesn't matter where they are, if they have designation
or not, and we can provide to them a lot
(09:06):
of the things that someone just starting out really needs
to be thinking about. And this is going to be
a long laundry list, and I think, what are those
the highlights? So I'm going to put on one side,
like we had a table in front of us, like
all the pieces we need to build a nonprofit. There's
going to be one plate that is full of compliance,
(09:28):
and that is your state registrations, your federal registrations, YadA, YadA, YadA.
That is all on one plate. The next plate is
going to be what I'll call your tech stack, and
that is going to be like, what is your bookkeeping platform?
How are we going to manage money in and money out?
And for a lot of most nonprofits that ends up
being something like QuickBooks. And then you got to have
(09:49):
things like we're going to have email addresses, so an
administrative technical that most nonprofits to use like a Google
workspace for nonprofits. There's so much more on that plate.
It's a huge play. But you want to think about
what technology is your organization going to be built upon,
because that's huge. You've got to keep track of every
donation that comes in and out, where our organization's going
(10:11):
through our first audit and they want every receipt, every
piece of paper. That's all your tech stack. You got
to keep that together. And then the other plate is
going to be how are we going to fund this?
And there's probably other pieces on the table like what
is our our what we've changed, what is our mission?
How are we going to do this? Who are the
people who are going to be doing that. There's so
(10:33):
many plates on this table. But yeah, so when you're
starting out, you've got to kind of think about all
of these things. Where fiscal sponsorship can help is fiscal
sponsorship already has the table made and set. You're just
joining the table. We have a chair for you. You can
come and join our table and we've got everything ready
(10:54):
to go and you can just focus on your mission
and grow from there. As far as the financial side,
I know I'm saying a lot in one part here,
but the financial piece I really want people to think about,
is the days of starting a nonprofit with the consumption like, oh,
we're going to get grants like that is not the
I don't know if it ever actually works that way,
(11:14):
to be honest, from the beginning, because most grant makers
like a foundation, So take like the Boston Foundation for example,
or any type of corporate foundation like a lot of
banks have foundations. They are looking to give grants to
organizations that have been around for at least three years.
So when you're starting a nonprofit and you're thinking about
(11:35):
how are we going to fund this, it's not going
to be grants to start, Okay. Having said that, I
definitely see nonprofits get started with grants like accelerate accelerator
grants or a seed funding. It's not impossible, but most
want to see three at least three years of some
success activity. So the other the other part of that
(11:57):
that is really changed, especially this year, is federal grants. Again,
they're very unpredictable at this time, They're very limited. There's
so many executive orders that have come out that, while
don't change law, make the application process very uncertain and
very kind of like not a guarantee. So we're really
(12:18):
taking federal grants off the table. State grants do still exist,
so that is another viable source. State funding is still
available for a lot of things, especially you're in Massachusetts.
Are your listeners mostly here in Massachusetts most of them are.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
We do have people in other parts, but mostly Yeah,
in the United States, where I think state wide you
can kind of look to your state and get that
information too and think about it, especially if, like you said,
if the federal grant side is just limited, narrow, maybe
confusing at this point, so not a guarantee, But that's
interesting about it makes sense that other larger organizations that
(12:54):
are giving money out through there, you know, are looking
for someone who's been around for three years and has
that level of you know, experience or you know, because
starting out like a new nonprofit, it's a relatively I'm
guessing the beginning is kind of a shaky time when
it comes to, you know, being fragile financially as far
(13:14):
as you know, a business is concern. So I think
that having that fiscal sponsorship sounds like, I don't know,
other firms might have, you know, associations that kind of
help you get all the things that you need.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Other things that kind of because.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I imagine that if people want to start a nonprofit their
first thought is not regulations and compliance, right, No, totally not,
they are, especially if they haven't worked in a regulated industry,
because you're in a highly regulated industry.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Correct, yes, everybody.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Is actually in Massachusetts, especially here.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, it is very important where like that is such
a big piece of it. That is really like learning
a whole nother language in some ways. So I think
that is, you know, I think that's really important. What
are some other like money moves that you think like
businesses can do first to kind of start to build
some resilience or to kind of you know, make sure
(14:09):
that they're ready to launch or to get started.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah. Well, I will tell you this based on my
own experience and what I've seen the work that we do.
You know, when it comes to nonprofit work, and this
is what I think comes to mind for a lot
of people in outside of the nonprofit space or transitioning
to the nonprofit space, is that a lot of it
is done for free, or it's donated or no one
should be paid. And that couldn't be further from the
truth the nonprofit sector. You know, it's called the third
(14:35):
sector for a reason. It's support. I don't have the
numbers off the top of my mind, but it is.
It supports the livelihood of so many people. So something
to really think about when you're getting started is one
building a budget. And it's okay because if you just
don't know all the hard numbers, it's about making educated
guesses a budget. Budgets are like you know, business plans,
(14:56):
They're meant to be changed. They're a roadmap and you're
you're going to change as you learn and as you're developing.
But something I really like to tell people is, you know, yes,
you can start your nonprofit tomorrow. You can just start
doing good work. Say you want to, you know, help
people facing homelessness here in Boston. You could literally go
out in the street and just start doing that. But
(15:18):
is that sustainable in the long term. If you're not
getting compensated for your time, if you don't have access
to financial and human resources or other resources that you need,
it's not sustainable. You're not going to get to do
that for very long. So I think when you're getting started,
you know, one of the biggest things to think about
is building that budget and then planning or how are
you going to pay the person or people that are
(15:41):
going to be running it and doing the work. I
think that especially. Yeah, absolutely, and so one thing I
left off too, and the last question you said, I'm
thinking about funding again talking about how do we fund
the leadership and the administrative cost of doing nonprofit work
is you know, phedogrants might not be the an option
right now. Corporate and state grants typically want to see
(16:04):
three years, although if you have a fiscal sponsor that
accelerates that kind of three year limit because you've got
a larger organization behind you. But you're going to be
looking for individual donations, so that could start with your family,
your friends, people in your community, people with a personal
connection to the work that you're doing. So this kind
of like if you think of money in a cake form.
(16:24):
You've got your individual contributions, your grants, and the other
thing to really learn about is large donors and large gifts,
and those will be identifying like maybe one to five,
maybe three large donors, and those are people we're talking
like a ten thousand dollars donation, a twenty thousand dollars donation.
That is really going to be the biggest part of
(16:49):
that cake. Someone described it to me so well, I
love cake, so.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It makes sense, like you can see how layers yeah, yeah,
and layers of and like fun, who doesn't want the cake?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But yeah, it's really thinking about how are we going
to diverse by our revenue. We're not going to count
on just alone on grants, We're not going to count
just alone on individual contributions. Another thing to diversify and
koume a lot of revenue that a lot of people
don't think about with nonprofits because we hear nonprofit and
think no money. But the truth of it is another
way to diverse by your revenue is developing revenue streams
(17:25):
like consulting or technical assistance. You can actually charge for
those services. So that's another great way to bring in
financial sustainability to a nonprofit.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Those are great tips and I think that Yeah, there's
a lot of different things you know, you can do.
I know some clients are very charitable and general. You know,
there's a lot of people who would you know, if
a mission or a call or something speaks to them
like these donations are something they could do. You know,
especially at some of the retirees, you know they have
to take money out of their accounts at a certain age,
(17:57):
and sometimes they go to their charities, the law, the charities,
the causes that they care about for a tax reasons
and also because it feels good to, you know, make
these donations while you're living, you know, instead of feeling
like at some point, you know people will inherit this money,
but to put it to work feels really good. So
a lot of people are becoming definitely have always been
(18:18):
charitably inclined, but I think it is I just think
it's important that you point it out different ways to
build the revenue stream because I'd imagine that it's hard
for nonprofit leaders not to feel compelled to chase down
every dollar, even if it means kind of pulling them
away from their mission because of that pressure to build.
So how do you help people stay true to their
(18:40):
mission and kind of build that sustainable finance like you
mentioned with the cake, but is attempting to just try
to go to whoever is paying at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I mean it's I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie.
I've written so many grants in my lifetime and I'm
not a grant writer, and this is you know, grant
writers they're very talented, skilled people who just write grants
for a living. That is a job unto itself. And
with you know AI Generative AI, that has really closed
the knowledge gap where it's made it possible for more
(19:11):
people without a master's or PhD to write a grant.
But at the end of the day, it's a numbers game.
So the more people you ask for donations, the more
donations you're going to get, and the more grant applications
you're submitting. The rule I've always kind of based it
on is like for every ten no's, you're going to
get one yes, yea. So it is. This is the
other thing about running a nonprofit is I don't know
(19:33):
if thick skin is the right word, but like you
have to have a sense of like fortitude unlike no
other And maybe you know, from the for profit side
it might be the same, but I know as a
nonprofit in my experience, it is. You know, it's pushing
that boulder up the hill, just to have it roll
back down on you and be like, oh, we made
some money. Oh no, that money's all gone and down
(19:55):
we've lost that. So it's continuing to push the boulder.
It is continuing to apply for grant when you've gotten
a million no's, it's continuing to put yourself out there
to ask for donations in creative ways or one on ones. Yeah,
it's just you know, it's a never ending battle. But
I will say this too about grants. Those are a
(20:16):
lot of those are built on relationships. So yes, you
can write one hundred grand applications to maybe get like
one or two yes's, but it's really about building relationships
with those grant makers and remembering that there are individuals
that are approving those grants just like you the individual
that is applying for it. So find out who is
(20:38):
the executive director of the foundation you want to apply to.
Look at nonprofits that are doing similar work to yours
and see who their funders are, and get to know
those people. They are so used to getting emails of
just hi, my name is, here's what I'm building, here's
why our mission aligns with yours. I'd love to see
(20:59):
if we could, you know, meet for a coffee or
a virtual meet or just share more about what we're
doing and just building that relationship that will lead to
way more grant adding and large support.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Such a good point, and I remember when I was,
you know, going to college. I applied for like every
scholarship on the face of the serf, and I got
a bunch of them. And I even talk with people now,
like there's a lot of there's a lot of businesses.
There's a lot of small businesses that give out small
scholarships for people, and some people say, no one's applying,
(21:30):
like and so I feel like for a college that's
such a big expense where people are thinking, Okay, if
it's not a twenty thousand, I don't I shouldn't even
bother with these one two, three times. But I feel
like there's a difference between that mindset and I think
that is these nonprofit you know, these leaders don't take
it personally the nose or the ghosts and just like
(21:52):
consider it like that a job inside itself where you
have to keep you have to keep trying, and you
have to keep reaching out and you have to keep connecting.
If you get one no, like, you have to continue
to follow up, keep like keep trying, because I do
feel like a lot of times people are just busy
or they're caught at the wrong time, but it's hard
not to take everything personally and feel like Okay, you're
(22:13):
not interested, and we don't want to hear no, Like
you're gonna have to hear no a lot, and like
you'll hear yeses as well. But I feel like that
is just putting in like like reps, like exercise, like
you just have to like just keep keep going and
like and then the bigger ones because I feel like,
and I don't know if this is in every space,
(22:34):
but I feel like once you start getting some donors,
like I'm sure that it feels easier at own point
to get more yeses and more more interest when someone's interested,
like kind of in the in the VST in the
venture capital space and the investor's side, Like it seems
that way in the in the private sector that once
once people are interested, like oh now everybody's curious. And
so I think that that could be hard, hard work,
(22:58):
but like a lot of work in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, you make such a good point about like it's
almost like the law of attractions, so and having an
abundance mindset. I would say that's probably one of my
own biggest growth points in the last couple of years
in the space, is like in nonprofits especially, it's really
easy to have a scarcity mindset of like, we have
no money, we're counting every penny. We don't want to
spend anything. Everything needs to be donated. I promise you
(23:22):
if you start having an abundance mindset where you start
getting donations or you start getting one or two grants,
you look more fundable and sustainable. To other people, they're like, oh,
this is a legit thing, Like you're actually making a difference.
I can see you growing. I see this happening, and
it does attract more. It really does. People start You'll
(23:43):
start getting more grants, You'll start getting more donations. I mean,
it's just you start doing a B and C, D
and E will have it.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah. No, And I think that that's that is so true.
And I think a lot of people, you know, especially
like you mentioned that nonprofit, like that scarcity mindset. It's
almost like I think sometimes people who have had to struggle,
like it feels more like a badge, Like it almost
feels strange, like getting all these big dollars.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Coming in when like, oh, but you know, like that.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Hustle scrap kind of mentality. But I think it is
really important for the business to start to adopt that
abundance mindset and think about what is possible instead of like, oh,
you know, we're struggling because that's kind of what we're
supposed to be doing. Like I don't think that that's
necessarily the right mindset for people who are trying to
help as many people as possible.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's so true. This comes up all the time, Like
there's been this common misconception the nonprofit space that you
shouldn't like a good nonprofit doesn't spend more than three
percent on over on overhead or administrative cost. That is
ridiculous and unsustainable. And anybody who's saying they spend three
percent is absolutely not being truthful. Yes, because the cost
to keep your doors open is a real cost and
it's way more than three percent. So when you when
(24:55):
nonprofits are given general support and not like restricted giving
is the worst ever because not profit should be trusted
to know where to spend the money that they get.
But when you're given general support and you're able to
invest in a fundraiser or invest in a grant writer,
or invest in a marketing budget, that's when the abundance
(25:16):
really starts happening, and you put it really well, there's
like almost a badge of honor for the least money
you spend. But that's not true if you're not if
you have no more money and you're closing your doors,
you're helping no one, not a soul.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Yeah, it's so important. It is.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
It is tricky, and it is kind of like, but
I got into this work to like not to go
to the big corporate and all the you know, but
I think it is important to use their money, use
how money you don't want to go.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, they have millions of dollars in foundations that needs
to be used. So use their money for good instead
of for evil.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
To me, I think that that makes sense because yeah,
just relying on one of those things, just relying on
individual donors, like just relying like that, that does make
things a little bit you know, unstable from a foundation.
So I think you know, if you have, say that
you are starting out, or you for one way or
the other, are on a tight budget, what are some
of the best practices that every like growing nonprofit should
(26:14):
try to implement on that end.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Oh that's such a bad question.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh wow, Like, hey, you mentioned budget before, which I
think is super important. Every everybody, every business.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Should have a budget.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
It's just it doesn't necessarily mean you have to cut everything.
But also I don't know if this is true in
your space, but I feel like when I have a budget,
I know what i'd want to do next when there's opportunity.
So maybe you can't afford certain things in a nonprofit now,
but where would you push money once it starts coming
(26:47):
in to grow? So I feel like that just having
a good idea of the numbers is really important. But
are there any other kind of practices that like, either
they have to do if they want to stay in
business from a regular door or side, or that you
think that they should start to do just to kind
of even if things are tight at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, that's such a great question. So my instant answer
is investing in leadership. I think there's no way for
an organization to sustain or grow if you're not financially
supporting the living, like a livable wage for the leadership
that they are able to do that work either part
(27:27):
time until it's necessary to become full time or on
a full time basis. Because if leadership is volunteering and
they are needing to have a full time job too
for their own liveability, like that's not sustainable. So you know,
a lot of things in the nonprofit world are are donated.
There is a lot of incredible organizations out there, like
(27:50):
tech Soup, like Catch a Fire. You know, if you
go to not to this is just shameless plug. There's
lots of websites like ours, So you can google any
of this. You don't have to come to the Nobee
dot org. But you know we've got all these listed
as well. But just run a Google search, you know,
Google Google themselves they have a ten thousand dollars monthly
(28:10):
grant to any nonprofit for advertising. Another podcast that's changing
advertising landscape with at but anyway, So just there's a
lot out there that is replaceable by free things. People
are not, so I think, really, if you're going to
build a budget for anything, is build a budget to
pay your leadership so that they whether it's one person
(28:34):
or two people, they are able to sustain and grow
the organization. Everything else can typically be donated.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, that's such a good point because I think you're right.
If people are working full time somewhere else in volunteers
like that, maybe their heart isn't it.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
But they have to pay the bills, they have to survive.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Like that it's just not going to be the priority
when it comes down to it, because it can't be yeah,
until they're able to really feel supported by it. So
that's such a good point. I'm curious when it comes
to like fundraising grants and partnerships, what are some like
pitfalls that you see that organization space maybe before they
(29:11):
get to you, Like, what are some ways that people
maybe you know, get it wrong when it comes to
that that part of it to try to get that
funding in the door, Like, is anything that you would
have tell people, like, you know that there's some common
things that you see people start out doing that maybe, Oh,
it's a good question, But I feel like I feel
(29:32):
like a nonprofit world is such a special space. I
feel like there's so much like highness and understanding that
people come from very different backgrounds and very very different
experiences and different levels of education and access, you know,
I think couple. I feel like it's less the responsibility
(29:53):
of the individual to get it right, it's more of
the responsibility and the changes being adopted by grant makers
that they are starting to lower the barrier and the access.
Where I was saying before, you know, to be your
grant writer, you have like people with PhDs writing these
things because you have to use the smart principle, you know, specific, measurable,
attainable like all those things that if not everybody doesn't
(30:14):
know that, and so you know, I think grant makers
really creating avenues that lower the barriers to funding.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's less on the individual. I think again, if you
are an earnest person, you're an honest person, you deeply
care about what you were doing, and you're you're open
to building relationships, you know.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah, no, that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think that's that's good to note because I feel
like sometimes maybe in in you know, for profit businesses,
we try to maybe buy a coach that will get
us where we want to go, or a service or
like some sort of advertising package, and then people are
like they feel burned by that. But I guess yes,
(31:00):
if you're not starting out with like a lot of
money to spend, you're really trying to like you're putting
your like you're putting yourself in like that that that
kindness and that level of like interaction I think maybe
would benefit people. You know, because if you have a
fundraiser that flops, like okay, it probably wasn't like your
one huge expense that you were going to try to do.
(31:21):
But and that's interesting with the grant writing because are
there any things that, like, say, people don't have the
budget to hire a grant writer and they're doing them
on their own.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Are there any.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Mistakes that people made because you mentioned like some of
the AI tools are there, but are they catching on
to what is just done by an AI tool.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
When it comes to giving out these grants.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Or most grant makers are very aware when they're they're like, yeah,
A I wrote this, and I'll tell you something interesting.
In my work, because I interface with nonprofit leaders like
sixty times a day in my inbox, I can tell
when they have been writing me in their voice and
then when they switch to AI and start writing to
me and listen, I have an AI tool that helps
(32:03):
me manage my inbox. Were customer service oriented. There's a
lot of emails we repeat a lot of the same information.
It makes me sad when I do see people like
AI watching their voice. It removes who they are as
a person, It removes their cultural experience and background. It
just sanitizes it so much. And I think it happens
(32:26):
because we want to get funded by the other party,
and we are assuming this is what the funder wants
to hear, this is what the person we're asked we
have an ASKA wants to hear. I think it's really important.
Even with the avent of AI and all that it
can do to close the gap between the knowledge gap
(32:47):
that exists out there, the experienced gaps that exist out there,
it still stay true to your why. So if you
are a person, say that is wanting to start a
program in your community to help people in recovery and
connect them to resources you're going to help out with
these people, stay true to your why. Like I heard
(33:08):
this thing the other day that was like, don't ever
start your elevator pitch with I help people, blah blah blah.
And I was like like, wait, wait, I got to
change my whole thing by hearing that is true.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
It's like you know what you do?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, Like when I talked to somebody and they're like,
you know, after you know, I lost my I lost
my cousin to drug addiction, and I just it broke
my heart so badly and it touched our family so deeply.
All I want to do is honor their name and
and you know, help others that are going through recovery
like that is, you share that story with individual donors,
(33:41):
with grant makers, with really anybody that you were trying
to ask to support your work, whether financially or in
kind by donating their time or services. You know, lead
with your why, your personal story, and that even comes
from writing your grant. Yes, your grant makers are going
to be still out for things like, well, how what
(34:02):
is the challenge you're trying to you what's the challenge
you've identified, How are you going to overcome that challenge?
What is your your process to do so, what is
the timeline in which you're going to do it, and
how are you going to measure those results. That's where
AI can come in and help fill in those parts
of the application. But sticking to your mission, sticking to
your why is really really important.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It's the And it's funny because I've heard this in
so many different areas, Like when I was talking to
somebody about SEO search and I was talking about them
like other topics where we're talking about, you know, the
changes that AI is making, and it is important to
like use it as a tool to like find these grants,
use it as a tool to like figure out some
of the like that can be super helpful and time
(34:46):
seeing like you mentioned the emails and things like that,
but like it's starting to like search and everything is
starting to favor the human part that can't be done
by AI, the story, the why, those reasons, and so
I feel like if you can find a way to
like balance that, I think that could be a really
(35:06):
helpful way to use the technology that's there.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
And but also knowing that, like like you said, if
you said, I help people in recovery, find like, okay,
you know, like I guess that you know, it's there's others,
but I feel like that that personal piece of it
and that why is really what can kind of help
these you know, nonprofits go grow and exist and help
(35:29):
with people because it is really it's really fantastic, you know,
some of the work that these.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
You know, nonprofits are doing.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Do you have any success stories that you have with
some of the nonprofits that you've worked with.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
That you love?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank too? Oh my gosh, okay, so I love the
work way too. At Nobie. I'll talk about a little
bit about fithical sponsorship. So we did start in twenty
seventeen as a nonprofit incubator, and it was truly we
were like building websites to help people like start accepting donations.
It was really low stakes at the time, you know,
we weren't like doing what we're doing today. So and
(36:04):
like people, a lot of people go to the nonprofit
space with no nonprofit experience. People in nonprofits baseball and
a fyscal sponsorship with zero fiscal sponsorship experience. But what
we do here at NOBI, we have about fifty five
different informal nonprofits, meaning they don't have their own nonprofit
status with the government and grassroots organization individuals. So our
(36:29):
portfolio is about fifty five different projects. We manage three
to four million dollars in donations every year, accepting and
distributing those funds for these nonprofits to use, and it
is awesome. I got to tell you, I have a
very hard time saying known to anyone who applies to
our program, and I have to get my better has
(36:51):
at the organization to tell me, like stop taking on projects.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
But the reason I love it.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
So much and it's hard to say no is because
when you I have seen organizations, oh my gosh, I
want to pick a couple. I want to talk about
rivers and roads in Maine. Let me talk about them.
These are two incredible women that started a program in
rural Maine to help kids after school, and they have
(37:17):
just been working so hard for the last three years
to get funding. And they've done it through individual donations,
personal donations, volunteering their own time. I mean, they have
done it all. They have been scrappy as all get out.
They've reached that three year milestone and they are getting
grants left and right this year to grow their work.
(37:38):
Their staff is finally getting paid, they're able to hire
this year. Like it's just seeing that life cycle repeated
over and over again. When you've got people that are
deeply passionate about what they're doing, they're finding the support
and resources, whether it's a fiscal sponsor, people in their community,
you know, just that are willing to give them their
(37:59):
time and advise them. I want to just put it
in a side in this story because I know this
was their experience. In a lot of people's experience, they
will go immediately and think, we need a lawyer. We
need a lawyer to help us set this up. We
need a lawyer to advise US. Lawyers do have their place,
they understand the law, but when it comes to setting
up a nonprofit, so much of that information is already
(38:21):
out there. And again this is where AI can help.
But even before AI, this information is out there on
how to do it yourself or have a fiscal sponsor help.
You don't put money aside for a lawyer, like just
at that stage unless you're doing something extremely high risk.
You just don't know that, like just thinking about where
finances are. But anyway, that wasn't a side of a
success story. I just I've seen so many amazing organization
(38:44):
people just come through our organization and others that you know,
they've really stuck with it. They lasted those three years
and now they've really got the financial support they need
to keep going and growing.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
That must be so exciting to be able to be
a part of that. I mean, even like I can
imagine it is hard to say no because it's not like, oh, hey,
I want to like get this so I can like
create like a more efficient like process, like I want
to help kids after school like that.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
You know, like they're probably like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I'm sure there's a lot of reasons why they want
to do this work and they've maybe had an impact
in some kids' lives and then felt like this could
be bigger, this could be more, there could be more
people to help. So I love that that like and
also again I feel like that's where that abundance mindset
comes in, like finding the right partners and then being like, Okay,
now at three years, maybe everybody's going to want to
have some sort of attachment or impact or be able
(39:36):
to help these organizations as they grow, because as they mature,
I feel like, yeah, you feel like, okay, this is
I know where my money's going to go when I
donate it, I know who's doing the work, I know
how I'm going to help people, which is just a
really nice way to kind of giving money. And I
will say this from the financial planning, it is one
of the better ways to feel good about your money.
Even giving a dollar out to somebody or giving any
(39:57):
money out at all. It feels different than spend it
on yourself, and there's research behind it, so like I
think that it is you know, I think it's something
like for everybody to kind of feel like, okay, where
you know, what do you outside of work, outside of
everything else in your life, What do you care about?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
What would you want to support, whether.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
It's sharing their posts if you have no money to give,
or doing something to kind of support them in other ways.
That is one of you know, behavioral finance wise, one
of the fastest ways to feel better about your own
financial situation. So beside there, but it is it is
super important to know. So how can listeners learn more
about you and the NOPEE and engage with your resources
(40:39):
if this is something that's really spoken to them.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, absolutely. Our website is the no P T T
n OPI dot org. I will say fiscal sponsor practices
like ours. It's a lot of us are at capacity
because it's becoming such a more well known resource for
people starting out in it with a nonprofit. But we
do an open office hours every Thursday from eleven am
(41:04):
to one pm Eastern and you don't have to be
fisically sponsored by us. Anyone can come and myself, my coworkers,
we can signpost you to resources, we can talk about
our work that we do and how we can help.
But that's a great resource. And then also you know,
just checking out your like Massachusetts Nonprofit Network is another
(41:25):
great resource. But anyway, about talking about ours. We're at capacity,
a lot of fiscal sponsors at capacity, but you can
still fill out our application if you're looking for a
fiscal sponsor. We've got a wait list until after the
new year currently. But one thing I do want to
say too, when you're first starting out, there are fiscal
sponsors that will work with you from I have an
(41:45):
idea phase, from the idea phase a lot or like ours,
we're about a mid sized fiscal sponsor. You need to
be a a little bit further along before we'll take
you on. But there's also dedicated nonprofit incubators that are
a great resources. And the one that always kinds to
my mocking Bird Nonprofit Incubator or beg one to check
out awesome.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Thank you so much for sharing that information.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I feel like there's a lot of people that have this,
this experience or something that's calling them to do something more,
but with that confusion around it and the uncertainty, I
think it's really important to.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Know who to go to that space.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And I love that you have those open office hours
for people because that could just be maybe it's even
just listening in on one call or joining and getting
pointed in the right direction that can really lead things
down very interesting paths. So thank you so much Amanda
for joining me. Thank and thank you everyone for listening.
If you're looking to see how you can include some
more charitable giving in your budget or figure out how
(42:39):
you can potentially take this idea you have or something
and turn it into a nonprofit, I'd love to speak
with you more about it. Head over to Missy Lynch
dot com where you can reach out to me directly,
or you can listen to more episodes of the podcast.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
I do have one on brandt writing that I did
with mossa Pond and it's a completely.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Different set of tools, super interesting, so you can catch
up on Oh that's just the podcast.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
And thanks for joining. We'll talk again next week.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Thank you for joining us on another insightful episode of
demonst Buying Money.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
If you enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Please subscribe, rate and leave a review. Stay tuned for
more engaging conversations on our next episode, and remember knowledge
is the key to financial empowerment.
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