Lizzo Allegations

TC and his wife Megan discuss the recent lawsuit filed against Lizzo.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
One hour left in the dirt BagCulture hour. That's the program you too,
then too ninety seven one. TheFreak is the radio station. I'm
TC Fleming. You may know mefrom last week when I did this show,
in the weeks before that, allthe one weeks of the free transitions

(00:26):
this show. When I say weI normally meet me in Jordan, but
today we've got my wife Megan today. Can stop introducing you as my wife.
I just feel like it's necessary context. But you're so much more than
that. Thank you for knowing that. To the host of Megan's movie podcast,
its changed like it? Well,you're still hosted that one. Yeah,

(00:48):
did you say change? So Iwould say you started a new podcast.
Yeah, and branched out, broughtmy bet Josh on with me.
We haven't done an episode in ayear. How come you wouldn't let Josh
co host with you on this show? I mean, I asked, He
declined, you didn't want to bringI try and bring the homies with yeah,
just I didn't want to forget aboutit. Yeah yeah, so uh

(01:08):
jj I heard you talking with theuh the downbeat about this Lizzo story,
and so it is a couple ofdays old, but we'd like to talk
about it too. Do we haveyour permission? Yeah, as the original
rights holder, Yeah, yeah,yeah, let's check. Yeah, And
I I my default position is whereSiroi was, which I will recap for

(01:32):
everyone, is that it doesn't soundlike that big a deal. And I
never wanted to sound like that biga deal because I like these people,
you know, are celebrity friends.I'm a Lizzo fan. I don't want
to it doesn't benefit my life inany way to think that she's a bad
person. And so, you know, he was kind of pointing out some

(01:53):
of the flimsiness of the evidence thatyou know, the headline was that she
was fat shaming, but then youthe article and she told one of the
danswers that she questioned her commitment,and the dancer interpreted that as a comment
about her weight. And I guessI could see a world where ever and
involved in it is so catty thatthat's how they talk and that's what they

(02:15):
mean when they say it. ButI could also see a world where she
just did legitimately question her commitment.Commitment could mean a lot of things,
right and and sorry, And thatparticular quote, I think that there's people
who if Lizzo hadn't hadn't been oneof us, the heavy set person,
Like, that's where I think everyone'shaving the problem. It's like she's supposed

(02:37):
to be the advocate. It's like, okay, but at the end of
the day, the whole message thatshe is trying to deliver is that she
is a person just like everyone else. So she can be narcissistic, she
can be really pushy when it comesto her product. So like the fact
that it's a bigger woman saying that, Like, I think that's where people
have the problem because she's she isan advocate for I guess you know,

(02:58):
the heavy set folks like myself.Yeah, she's also the boss. That's
where it's like, can you believeshe said this? Like yeah, yeah,
if I'm paying, I'm paying youto give me your all. If
I won't stage giving mine all,I expect you to do the same.
And I think a lot of thethings that I was reading was like she
never said this, but we feltit. And I can as a person

(03:22):
who we talk about people pleasing,like I am very in tune to other
people's emotions and like what's going toupset them or not, and so I
can identify with that, but Ican't also blame someone for me interpreting something
that they're saying if they're not actuallysaying that thing. If if she's not
saying like, it looks like you'vegained weight, you know. And I
don't even think she was saying itin a sense of like that's bad because

(03:46):
you've gained weight. She's like,you know that this is a very serious
thing that we have to be.Like, for Lizzo, being as big
as she is, she is veryathletic. She like, I don't know,
she has a lot of skills.I think that she just for she
wants to see everyone giving their bestbecause it's a representation of her, And
I don't know, like where youtake that a step further and you're just

(04:09):
like, well, I felt likeshe was saying this to me. She
was directing this towards me. Andin reality, the kind of controversy was
not even the fat shaming parts.It was more so that she would have
outings that she would go to,like to bars after a show, and
would invite everyone but would not itwas not mandatory to attend, and the

(04:29):
girls would kind of just say wefelt like once again we felt like if
we didn't go to these things andwe wouldn't get preferential treatment. Well,
before we totally leave the fat shamingpart, I just I just want to
say it, like I feel likeit's an example of the unique challenges faced
by fat people. That it's notlike she like she has no choice but

(04:51):
to be an icon for body positivity. Yeah, Like, just by existing,
she's going to be an icon forbody positivity, and anyone who was
not in that category would of coursebe allowed to say whatever they wanted about
their dancers. Wait, like everyother person in her position in the history

(05:13):
of the world could be like,I'm looking for skinny dancers behind me,
skinny, skinny brunette, skinny blonde, you know whatever, like a certain
certain background and dance like it couldbe any of those things. But because
she's because she's fat, it's abig deal. And I tend to believe
it makes enough sense to me thatshe wasn't even really talking about that when
she said that she should be committed. But I'm just saying, like,

(05:36):
you know, I I don't thinkit's like the most healthiest thing. I'm
sure that there are pop stars inthe passtive abused those that kind of power,
and you know, like we arecertainly not we But you watch the
Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders show, Yeah,and I walked through at times, and
the way that they talk to thosegirls is not healthy. They're eating disorders

(06:00):
left and right. Yeah, Ilike it is the way that all of
them are talking like, it's notgood. I'd prefer to see a change,
and maybe this is where it starts. But boy, I can't say
I'm shocked that in this you know, if the world is looking for,
like who are we going to goafter over something like this, like look
up Kelly fin Glass and Duty Trammelbecause yeah, yeah, they modify their

(06:23):
behavior well before Lizzo does. Idon't think people realize how like in shape
Lizzo is, Like, no matterhow big she is, anybody know how
hard it is to sing and danceat the same time, playing the flute
for like a two hour show anddoing it very well. It's not like
the mediocre at any of it.Like that's the part that and yeah,

(06:45):
nobody gets it because I guarantee youthere's people who are like you know,
the society's level of fit, whowould have who would struggle, and like
I said, maybe not struggle doingthe physical part, but try to sing
very well, try to play theflute and not miss a beat, and
also do this dance choreography like that'sand do it like every night. Yeah,
she's a shape. She's a moreshaped than these people who are talking
and saying she's fat and she's promoting. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's in

(07:11):
better shaped than you are. Sheis better shaped than me. I'd say
that much. Yeah all right,you were starting into the sexual harassment allegations.
Yeah, no, I was gonnasay I did like a quote I
saw about it. It was likeLizzo's fat shaming while being fat herself doesn't
surprise me because that's the stuff myteas used to do, which I remember
that being a very big thing growingup, and be people being like,

(07:33):
oh, you're so cute and chubbyor whatever. I'm like, what are
you like? I have the babyfat on my on my end at that
point, but just everyone's uh,I guess comfortableness with talking about other people's
bodies is something that I think wegot a little too comfortable with, and
so now it's like when it suitsthe people who were like now they can

(07:54):
be on Lizzo's side and be like, yeah, her dancers are overweighted,
her dancers are unhealthy. But it'slike Lizzo said it, So what does
that mean to you? Yeah,I can't stress enough. It doesn't really
seem to me like she did say, right right. I think with all
this we can get into the sexualharassment or sexual I do think what you're
talking about is highlighting. Like Idon't know, you know, I don't
think that it's helpful to try andrank the groups that are discriminated against most,

(08:18):
you know, like we should justall say, like any kind of
discrimination is not ideal and you know, try and avoid it when we can.
But I think that being fat islike it's it's definitely a form of
discrimination. In my opinion, Idon't think people are treated the same.
And it's complicated because you hypothetically canwork out enough to leave the group,

(08:39):
which is not true of most discriminationdiscrimination groups. But you also have to
look around and see that like thepeople who actually do that are like what
percentage of the population. And Ican't tell you how many times I've had
a friend who, you know,like lost a bunch of weight and then
you ask them, you know,like how's it going. They're like,
yeah, hungry, you know,So it's not like you're just it's a

(09:03):
different set of struggles then, Ithink. And it's purely like in the
eye of the beholder, it's likeyou're doing it. You could lose one
hundred pounds and someone would still thinkyou're fat. That's the problem is that
it doesn't really change anything. Ittasted like it starts with you, you
know what I mean. You haveto be happy with yourself and like let
your health be a discussion between youand your healthcare provider, not like the

(09:28):
people on Reddit. Like that's thebiggest thing I think people forget. Yeah,
and it just you know, you'retalking about the thing of your teas
h you know, making fun ofyour weight while being overweight themselves. I
think it's like it's that's definitely apart of fat discrimination that is somewhat unique,
not entirely unique. I watched theDoctor phil episode about a African American

(09:52):
woman that had a lot of hatefor African Americans. Was a shocking episode,
But for the most part, Ithink that like there's a tendency in
a lot of discriminated groups to supportother members of the group because you know
how hard it is. And Ithink that in the case of being fat,
I think it's much much, muchmore common for you know, like

(10:13):
fat people to make jokes about fatpeople are like, you know, to
discriminate against other fat people. Likeit's just it's it's not like I mean,
it's because it's not the same thing, you know, like it is
a different you know, it's adifferent classification. It's a different experience than
just being like race or gender orwhatever. But like, I think it
does present challenges. Yeah, Iagree. I think also, you know,

(10:35):
there's the flip side of it ofsomeone who's who's trying to gain weight,
who's very skinny, also has peoplecommenting on their body just as much.
It's easy for people that are fatto say, like, well,
they have it easier because it's like, at least in certain people's eyes,
that's not a problem, whereas it'syou're forced to think that like being overweight
should you should be ashamed of it? You shouldn't be you know, out

(10:56):
there actually living your life and andhaving you know, lust for life or
passion. So I think that's whereit just becomes more of a thing that
people think they can talk about becausesociety has kind of given them the okay.
Yeah, So I think some ofthe details of these allegations are a
little ticky tacky. I think thatLizzo faces some challenges that I'm certainly sympathetic

(11:20):
to, and I certainly like herwork. So I'd like to live in
a world where you know, she'sshe's just a great person that ever enjoys
with no complicated feelings. But Idon't know, man, looking at the
whole scope of everything, I thinkit's meaningful that this lawsuit is three different
people, and I believe two ofthem are people that she fired, but

(11:43):
then one of them someone who quitbecause she thought it was messed up that
her friends got fired. And youknow, so it's it's it means a
little more than if it's just oneperson, right, If it's three people,
I'm sure that they are friends.I'm sure that they do see things
the same way, and sometimes afriend group can you know, collectively have
you know, off ideas. Butit feels to me like it's something where

(12:07):
maybe the specific details in the lawsuitaren't fully capturing the feeling that they're getting
whenever they're around her, and Idon't, you know, I don't want
them to have that bad feeling ifshe's creating that. I hope that she,
you know, does some self reflectionand stops doing that. And it
was definitely meaningful to me that therewas a director that popped up on Instagram

(12:31):
and said that she had worked withLizzo for two weeks on a documentary before
leaving the project, and that shesaid that all this stuff doesn't surprise her,
that it was very hard for herthose couple of weeks she had to
leave the project because Lizzo was doingsuch like she was creating the kind of
environment it was just hard for herto be around. Then, like her

(12:52):
like top assistant, the director's topassistant on the project also posted being like,
yeah, she was telling me aboutthis every day. I was seeing
it myself, and like, youknow, she's just a bad person that's
like tough to be around, andlike he's really pretty aggressive, and you
know, again, you could itcould just all be people with sour grapes,
But if you have that many peoplein your life with sour grapes,
then like you start to think theallegations must just be true, you know,

(13:16):
Otherwise why would they have sour grapes? And so I don't know,
man, I it seems like probablyshe's hitting just because making great art and
things like that it often takes alot of drive and a lot of focus
and a lot of sacrifice, youknow, this show for example, And

(13:37):
I get it, but we allknow that there's a way to cross a
line there and I hope that peopledon't do that, and it it really
sounds to me like whenever you takeeverything together, that the details may not
be terrible, but the vibes arepretty bad. Yeah, And my thing
is that it's it's very easy tosay on the sidelines of like, well,
why don't they just leave? Likeif I am in the mindset of

(14:01):
like if you are not willing todo what she's asking, like it is
her thing, like she's allowed,Like maybe you can say she shouldn't be
allowed to make us feel this way. It's like okay, well then you
don't have to be here, youdon't have to be a part of it.
But to kind of align yourself witha person like that, like these
people like people like that are goingto be crazy about their art. They're
going to be crazy about what theyexpect from themselves, like I'm sure she's

(14:24):
just as hard on herself as sheis on everyone else. It's not like
to say that those girls didn't feelthat way, but the vibes of like
having a co worker that you're atwork with and I've had several where I'm
like, I'm gonna quit tomorrow.It sucks. You know, I'm gonna
quit, and you know, justkeep on saying and saying and saying it,
and then something happens to the otherones, and that just kind of
like HATA pulls you to like,Okay, now I can make my move

(14:46):
because now they've gone too far.They've fired my friends and you know for
like unprofessionalism behavior things like that,and looking at the kind of the court
briefings and whatnot. All of theit was based on feelings. Never on
Lizzo said we had to do X, Y and Z or we would be
cut. They noticed that people whooften you know, hung around her at

(15:11):
these bars at restaurants doing whatever.Obviously they were kind of getting closer,
so maybe they had some preferential treatment. But at that point you're the you're
the adult in the situation, andyou have the the right to say yes
or no to something. I thinkalso it's a huge opportunity, so like
that may come with some things thatyou're not like super comfortable with, and
you don't have to like sell yoursoul to do those things. So I

(15:35):
think that's where I get really tornon like which side, because I've been
in a work situation that's super toxic, not able to get out, don't
have any other choice because you've gotto put you know, you gotta pay,
you gotta pay the bills. Butjust in this situation, it seems
like it's a little bit more justcatered towards like a different you know,

(15:56):
dancers, I don't. I'm notfamiliar with the dance world. So maybe
Nikki or Mallory could have helped meout here. Yeah, Yeah, do
you want to call him up?Yeah, get him on the line,
see what they think about it?What do you think? J J?
Do I win you over it allwith my argument that the details aren't terrible,
but it's it certainly sounds like abad situation. Or do you feel
like these people are just ganging upon her? Yeah? I just I

(16:18):
feel like with the night out situation, it kind of blurs that line of
friends friend and boss. You know, it's so tough because I don't think
that there's a clear answer for theright thing for Lizzo there. It's it's
all depend on how I like readingother people and like what kind of energy
they're giving off. Because what theydescribed as that night out, it's in

(16:41):
detail and I said this on theshow on the down mean it sounded just
like a girl's night out at astrip club, but like bar. I
mean, because that's exactly how myfriends would do me. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, it's get inthere again. And to some people
it's like, oh, this isother people. You can easily imagine someone

(17:03):
being like this is harassment, right, I just don't get why you would
go then. Yeah, I meanbecause like in the in the thing I
was reading, they were trying toget There was a couple of people at
dinner trying to celebrate and someone andlike Lizza was like, yeah, we're
gonna go down this bar. Youguys should come down, and they were
like they didn't know what they weresigning up for. Okay, So it
wasn't like Lizza was like you allhave to be here. We're gonna be

(17:23):
you know, honking boobs and justdeal with it. And then definitely seems
like that personality that's going to geteverybody involved, everybody that's out, gonna
make them feel comfortable, and youknow it's it's and what they had been
mad if they were like she didn'teven talk to us the whole night we
showed up to this thing, andshe she was respecting our boundaries. I

(17:45):
don't know, like we would probablywouldn't hear about it, but it just
seems like you're trying to think ofall the bad things that someone's ever done
to you, and you're like,yeah, and this one time I was
at a club that I went tomyself on my free will, and you
know, I totally get feeling pressured. I totally get like you do feel
like, oh, she's gonna thinkI'm not cool if I'm like if I

(18:07):
do something. But I also feellike if you're of a certain maturity level,
you don't care. You're like,I'm not going to do it,
Like just I guess, I guessI won't have this job if I have
to do this. I mean,then there's a party of men that's like,
just honk the boob, just getit over. You might like it.
You never know. Yeah, thisis blurry. Yeah, I just
you know, I think that Idon't really like how the legal system works

(18:30):
a lot of times, and thisis I can imagine example of that here,
where like you have an actual thing, you know, like like Lizzo
just fired you, and you're pissedoff about it. You don't think that
you should have been fired, andso you go to the lawyers and you're
like, well, I got youknow, I have this conflict with Lizzo,
and they're like, well, youknow, actually it's you know that
your employment was at will. Shewas within every right to fire you.

(18:52):
But keep talking, keep telling meabout what happened, and maybe there's a
couple of things that were over theline, and we can just fight on
those grounds, so you don't actuallyend up having the fight over I shouldn't
have been fired, because, like, you know, I think it's entirely
conceivable that you know, these girlsin their mind worked very hard and you
know, wanted to continue as dancersand they're pretty upset that they can't.

(19:15):
But you just don't get to havelike that out. So if you want
to, you know, sort ofget a symbolic victory in this other area,
that'll make you feel good about thismain conflict, you know, but
it ends up just being a secondarything where like the lawyers like, all
right, tell me everything that happenedwith her, and then they pick out
a couple things they're like, okay, those actually do go past you know,

(19:36):
whatever legal boundaries we have. Likewe've been in this situation Megan where
like you know, uh, Meganhad was laid off from a job where
it really didn't feel fair. Itwas a pretty messed up situation. The
details where you know, like it'sall stuff that you can get away with
a yeah, I think it's notright. Yeah. If I would have

(19:56):
gone and been able to like affordto go to a lawyer, I could
have written out the details. Andwe had a friend who was familiar with
employment law, and so you know, we've watched them go through this process
where it's like, okay, thefighting, they actually can do that.
But you know this, this andthis if you wanted to just have if
you just feel like fighting with them, to fight with them, you can
fight about this, yeah, andso you know, then it's like and

(20:21):
it feels a little bit cheap likeend around way, but then you also
have to ask what did Lizzo doto make these people feel so dedicated to
the idea of fighting her and whateverthat was? Is that wrong? You
know it's not like illegal or whatever. Probably not, but like is it
wrong? And I don't know.I can't say for sure without the details,

(20:42):
but it feels to me like probablyshe had to do something to get
them this upset at her. Imean, I think, like who who
And they're right. I was gonnasay, maybe they they're not as good
as they thought they were. Andif they were fired, like whoever agrees
with like, yeah, I shouldhave been fired. I wasn't. There's
there's some situation, like even withmy with my situation, I you know,

(21:03):
I sat there being like, Imean, I guess I only worked
twelve hours that one day. LikeI'm just like thinking, like and she
wanted me to work fourteen and Ihad a one year old, Like that
was really hard. But you know, just kind of trying to write it
and you write it right in yourmind and it doesn't really get to that
point, so you kind of justhave to say, like this is just
one I'm not gonna win, LikeI have to let it go. I
can't, you know, I can'thold the grudge because like in this instance,

(21:29):
like now these people have their faceon TV, like it's at least
better now. I think that likeyou'd see that and then you'd be like,
oh, they're never gonna work inthis town again. I definitely feel
like there's gonna be somebody that's likegonna take those three specifically on as like
a trope of like you know,these are Liz, those dancers. We
give them the respect that they deserve, like I mean, otherwise like they're

(21:52):
in some deep doo doo if theydon't win the case, and then from
that person, then we're really gonnaknow, yeah, then they're going to
come back. That's why the otherthe allegations of the director way so heavily
for me is because I can Ican see three friends just kind of like
having a bad attitude, and honestly, it was good to get them out
of there. Bad attitudes can kindof ruin the whole thing, and like

(22:15):
this is just what you gotta do. But then whenever you got a person
who is not suing her, whohas no benefit whatsoever to inserting yourself in
this story, going and being likeactually that's exactly how I saw her act
all the time that that carries alot of weight with me. Did y'all
see this TMZ interview? I sawone, and there was one that was

(22:36):
I saw CNN and TMZ and peoplewere just kind of acting like they just
were not prepped well enough and andin having the interview probably damaged their case,
and that it seems like their lawyerwas kind of like, oh god
one and she never said, butthe one on CNN that I was watching,
it was like when she's telling thestory, she's like, you know,

(23:00):
it's Liza, Lizzo, doesn't thinkthese things happen. But when she
did this, did we you know, did I think that I was going
to get fired? Yes? DidI think? And like I said,
going back to like the internal feelingswhere Lizza is probably dealing with thirty five
different dancers and to you know,it would be good if she had like
a one on one relationship with eachof them and was able to kind of
read and gauge how she talks tothem. But I doubt that that's how

(23:22):
it is. It's probably everyone's ina big room and if you're like,
you know, panting at the onesong and you know, she's like,
you need to step it up,but just in the way that she kind
of delivered the line as she's like, did I not leave the stage because
I thought I would get fired andhave, you know, use the restream
on myself? Yes, And shekind of like chuckles about it, and
it's like I and then I thinksomeone said she had to wear like a

(23:45):
transparent outfit after that, Like soshe was like shame. But that's where
I'm just like, was that theonly off that they had? Like you
didn't bring a change of clothes?Like this is just once again, that's
where I'm like, it has tobe true because why would you want those
details out unless you know you're willingto pay the ultimate prize to people knowing
you. You know, Yeah,I'm yeah, I just I really felt

(24:08):
like I was. I was onthe brink of having to but I didn't.
Don't worry about it. I don'tknow what that's like, Uh yeah,
you know, It's just it's oneof those things like Lizzo could easily
be like I didn't want her todo that. Yeah, she ruined the
stage we had to get into youcould go take a bathroom break. She
ruined the costume, like I didn'ttell her not to. Yeah. Anyways,

(24:32):
Megan and I watched the documentary.It's called Love Me and Zero,
just because Megan's a big tennis fans. Uh. It's about Andrea Augusi's relationship
with his coach, and I justthe whole thing was very interesting. I'd
love to tell you about it somemore. Next, this is ninety seven
one The Freak