September 6, 2025 • 43 mins
Description: Whether it be wood, metal, or a living fence, garden backdrops are essential to creating depth and structure in the garden. Get design tips, creative ideas, and of course, plant suggestions for creating backdrops throughout the garden. Featured shrub: Laced Up elderberry.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Broadcasting from Iconic Studio A here at proven Winners, Color
Choice Shrubs. It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show with Stacy, Hervella, me,
Rick Weiss, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Stacy, Today,
let's talk about backdrops and fencing and walls. A backdrop
for your landscape is just like framing a picture with
(00:23):
your camera. Is your background picture perfect? A backdrop behind
a photograph subject can make or break your image, and
I think you could probably say the same with your
landscape or some of the plants that you place in
your landscape. You can also create an illusion of depth.
(00:46):
What's a good depth for a layered garden? Many people
would say proceed at least five six feet out from
a wall or a fence or your home. All of
these issues relate to adding structured to a garden. And
I have to admit, Stacy again, you know how much
I enjoy five gallon buckets. I've gotten into screening and
(01:09):
walls big time.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, but not with five gallon buckets. Five gallon buckets
are just as okay. I didn't know if you were
working on some sort of new idea here with with
the buckets. But you know, as far as backdrops go,
if that's what we're talking about, we have to at
least mention that our backdrop has changed because we are
in meteorological fall.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
And while we're talking about the podcast, I do just
want to mention happy third anniversary our first show. Our
first episode aired the Saturday after Labor Day, so the
day's not exactly right, but the timing is so Happy anniversary, guys.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Happy anniversary. Time flies when you're having fun.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes, So not to derail from the garden backdrop conversation,
I just thought I should mention it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, I love it. I love it. So let's talk
about structure today and fencing. I've got a number of
things to share. As a matter of fact, it'll be
a try it before you buy it kind of segment.
And some people use chain link fence, for example, to
delineate their property line. I want to recommend that if
(02:11):
you want it to not be noticeable, make it black.
That's my opinion. Chain link fence privacy slats are something
that I'm putting in my fence right now. Let me
grab this here a minute for you, Stacey, and I'll pass.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
That Wow for our YouTube vision in studio appearance here. Yeah,
so you're threading this through the links on the chain
link fence, and.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Very easy to do. You just slide them into something
they call a viper track. But what it does is
it gives you a black background to your fence and
green plants. The color green just pops when it has
a black backdrop. So inexpensive and easy. That's one of
(02:57):
the things I'm doing in my landscape right now.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That's a huge improvement over the classic galvanized chain link
fence that so ubiquitous.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
But let's talk rust here a minute. Also, I'm working
on some panels with my neighbor, and what we're using
is eight foot galvanized panels that many times you will see,
for example, like on the roof of a pole burn
using them with wood to create these backdrops or barriers
(03:30):
within the landscape. And then what we found, and for
folks watching on YouTube you can see what we're building here.
What we found was the galvanized steel when the sun's
in the right position, it will blind you, oh deer,
oh dear, yes, and possibly burn the plant. So what
(03:52):
we're monking around with is to basically rough up the
galvanized surface, abraz it and then making a mixture of
vinegar and salt and spraying it on to speed up rust.
We wanted to rust, maybe take a blow torch to it.
But it's just an example of what you can do
(04:13):
to create barriers within your landscape or backdrops that really
make the plants stand out and be a focal.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
P So you're working on this with your neighbor because
you're trying to develop mutual privacy or is your neighbor
into this plant backdrop idea as well.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So on next week's show, we're going to talk about
design plants and designing within the landscape. And my next
door neighbor is a guy who's really great at interior
design and flipping houses. He knows nothing about plants. Okay,
yet you get them in the landscape with plants, it's
(04:52):
amazing how he can put things together. Well, we work
on these backdrops together between our two properties to extend
cate the plants, and it's just a kick in the plants.
And we're going to give you the link for those panels.
They're inexpensive, not fun to work with, but again it's
an example of some of the components that you can
(05:14):
use to create barriers or fencing with in your landscape.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That's very creative, you know. I think that people's first
instinct very often is to look for something ready made.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yes, But if you.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Want something that is more affordable, or something it's more unique,
or something that gives you a chance to kind of
express some personal style and ideas, then it pays to,
you know, think about it and put together your own
idea and come up with something that's even better.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah. And I think transparency is a key also, So
you basically have two elements here, creating a screen that
is not transparent that really allows the plants to play often,
or a transparent screen if all you're trying to do
is create a border and keep out deer. Now I've
(05:57):
got another try it before you buy it, Sam Pole
here for you, Stacy. For a while I was using
this material right here, which is a mesh like material.
This is a joke, and that's a joke. This material
is a joke, and you get tangled in it, you
get frustrated. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And if you buy too cheap a one ask me
how I know it rips very easily. I've also had
birds get tangled in it. Unfortunately I was able to
rescue them and get them out. But if I hadn't been,
they would have perished in this silly netting. I once
had a baby bunny get stuck in it. It's okay,
he got out. I got him out, but he was panicking,
you know. So yes, I have forsworn this material, this
(06:38):
regular deer netting.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Same for me. So I picked up this material. Take
a look at that. So that is called ten X
deer fence. Great stuff comes six foot by one hundred
foot in rolls and have a picture for you on YouTube.
In use in my dear compound.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
How do you cut it? Just with your regular.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Nice or wire cutters, but again using a wire mesh
or something like this ten X material to create this
deer barrier makes a world of difference within your landscape.
You don't even know it's there. You can basically see
through it again using the color black. But it gives
you the result that you want, and that is to
(07:23):
put up a barrier and keep the deer nice.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
You know. In my garden tour that we recently posted
on YouTube, I talk a bit about the wire mesh
that I've used to surround my vegetable garden and it
is galvanized, but I really like it because it goes
with the metal of the tea posts that we used
to make it, and it does kind of create I
guess I would say maybe slightly industrial chic kind of vibes.
(07:49):
But it was very low cost, It's super functional, and
I'm very happy with it. I'm having the best vegetable
garden ever this year with the new backdrop surrounding there.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I love that. That's really good. Right, well, you know,
you think about it. The picket fence is something that
we associate with small town America, colonial roots, cape cod
that sort of thing. But there is so much more
than picket fence or dog eared fencing. There are all
sorts of options, and I guess that's the point that
(08:19):
I'm trying to make. And they also make a big
difference as it relates to structure within your landscape. Helps
give some depth, some background. And then again, if you,
for example, use the color black, green and other colors
really tend to pop out and the fence is less noticeable.
(08:40):
But of course, with these slats that you can put
through a chain link fence, there's a variety of colors
you can choose from from gray to burgundy to blue.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Oh, so you could do like a whole pattern.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Exactly what chance all this kind of fun stuff. And
that's the kind of stuff I love to do in
my life landscape, just like Old Ned. You know, I
always talk about Old Ned and my fencing. Limerick today
relates to Old Ned. Old Ned needs to decompress the
deer his property transgress. Despite all his rantings, they ate
(09:15):
all his plantings and left Old Ned defenceless. Old Ned's
plantings had grown lush, but now are reduced to just mush.
He kicked the stubble in disgust, his balance failed to adjust,
landing on his keyster in the brush. There you go. Oh,
rough day for a rough day for Old Ned. And
(09:36):
keister is a word in the Merriam Webster Dictionary.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
So if you're playing scrabble and you have a K,
that's a good one to keep in mind.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Exactly, I'll bear that in well. Sorry, oh, everyone needs
a good fence around their property or some good backdrops
to provide that structure. And by the way, along that
line and segment four, I got to.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Give you a hot takee oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, And I'm gonna let it rip, Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
All right, I will be counting the minutes.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So a wire fence is ideal if you want transparency
to see through it. And then of course the reverse
would be a screen that you can build to provide
that great backdrop that really shows off your plants. You
can use reclaimed fence posts, old wood. You can grow
(10:38):
vines through a fence. Of course, in a spellier fence
I've seen cool a spell your fences, a steel fence,
a large gap fence. If you have large gaps in
your fence, it's not going to keep the deer out,
but it's going to maximize natural light. And the result
is the yard that looks more welcoming from the outside
and feels larger from the inside. Stained wood, horizontal slatting,
(11:04):
wrought iron, wooden, wire, picket, so many different.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Choices, so many options.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I want them to You want it to kind of
sink into the background. You don't want it to steal
the show, but actually just enhance the plant material and
make it look sharper. So we'll talk more about that
coming up in segment four. We'll see how Stacey ties
this all together in Plants on Trial, that's coming up
(11:31):
after the short break. Here on the Gardening Simplified.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
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(11:55):
proven Winner's Color Choice dot com. Gardening Friends and welcome
back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the order of
the day is Fences and backdrops a very key part
of any good garden or landscape. And sometimes the fence
is about strict utilitarian like just you know, keeping the
(12:16):
kids and dog within the parameters of the yard. Sometimes
it's decoratives, sometimes it's both, and sometimes you know, it's
a living thing like a plant. And you said, Rick,
everybody needs a fence, and that is so true. I
desperately need a fence. And it occurred to me after
you said that that probably a lot of listeners who
hear me complain about all the deer in my yard say, well, jeez, Stacy,
(12:37):
why don't you just get a fence already? Well, I have,
what is probably the worst possible type of yard for
a fence. That is why I don't have a fence.
So my driveway is all the way at the right
side of my property, so if I was going to
fence off the yard.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
My garage is also all the.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Way in the back corner of my property. So if
I was going to fence off the yard, I would
need a gate. And you know, my house doesn't really
quite rise to the occasion of an automatic gate.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
That's a little bit much for my mind.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
One of those gates like the Beverly Hills.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
It might be a little overkill from where I live.
So I have that whole issue with the gate. And
you know, I've gotten I've gotten quotes on getting a
fence and trying to take care of this, but it's just,
you know, the gate is always a deal breaker for
us because they're like, oh, it's going to be a
total pain in the winter, the ice and snow is
going to build up, and you know you leave the
(13:36):
gate open one night, well then the deer like, hey,
it's a field day. So I have fences on either
side of my property that belong to my neighbors that
they put up, and I'm growing a back fence line
of junipers, so I planted that this is their third year.
It's a variety called blue arrow, actually is it. Yeah,
(13:57):
it's blue arrow, and they're looking good, but they're a
little bit slower to get established. But I have found
really that that background of plants, I mean, that's where
my vibe is. So even though I have a lot
of frustrations about being unable to completely fence off my
yard easily, it has provided other opportunities as these things
go in gardening. And I'm really happy with the way
(14:20):
that that backdrop of blue erow jennifer, which is not
a proven winter's colored choice shrub, so that is not
today's plant Montreal. I'm getting to that in one moment,
but really happy with the color and texture that that
is bringing in. As that knits together and grows more,
it'll be a great privacy and plant backdrop for my yard.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I like the way you describe that knitting together because
when you look at American history, for example, in the
Plains States, osag George, Oh, yeah, and how that would
knit together and create this fence that was just unreal.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, and you see you do still see them sometimes
around Michigan, but certainly more when you go into like
the lower Midwest Missouri, Oklahoma. Down there, you'll see a
lot of those old o sage orange fences, which are
very cool. But you're probably thinking that today's plant on
trial then is a backdrop plant, a plant that can
be used as a backdrop, But we would be wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It is a plant that benefits from being planted in
front of a backdrop. Oh nice, because some plants really
need other plants or other structure to set them off.
And I find that this is true very much so
in the world of purple and black plants. Love them
(15:41):
beautiful plants. You fall in love at the garden center,
You get it home, you put it in the ground,
and you're like, wait, where did it go? These new
darkly fucaras you know that are like near black, so
beautiful you can't wait to get them home. And then
you plant it and you're like, it blends directly in
with the soil. And similarly, today's plant on trial lace
step Elderberry can very much do that. It can become
(16:03):
kind of like a black hole or blending in unless
it has something else planted behind it. Or around it
to set it off. So a lot of people are
familiar with our black lace elderberry, so plant that's been
around for a very long time, still one of our
best sellers to this day. And black lace elderberry is
(16:24):
very similar to the native American elderberries that you will
see blooming in June, but it was developed in Europe.
It is thought to be more of a European species,
but it looks and acts basically just like our standard
Zambucus canadensis or our elderberry, but instead of green foliage,
it has dark purple black foliage, and it's very very lacy,
(16:48):
as you might guess by the name black lace. And
so it's finally cut and gives it just this incredible
texture and as beautiful and alluring as that dark foliage is.
Like I said one, sometimes when you get it home,
unless you have something behind it, it's just like a
black hole in the landscape, and you know, you see it,
and it's like it kind of just like sucks all
(17:10):
the life out of the garden. And it should of
course be you know, vivacious and interesting. So I have
found because I do have a number of laced up
elderberries in my garden because I love them. They're so
cool that they really benefit from being planted against something.
They have everything that black lace has, except black lace
gets to be six to ten feet tall and wide,
(17:31):
so that is a very big potential black hole in
your landscape if you're not citing it carefully. Lace up
elderberry gets to be six to ten feet tall but
only three to five feet wide, so it's a narrow,
fastigit plant. But I have actually found that this more
unusual habit to me necessitates it being planted against something,
(17:53):
perhaps even more so so that it looks deliberate. That
really statuesque kind of habit that it develops is best accentuated,
and I think there's a lot of ways you can
do that. I think it looks fabulous up against my
blue arrow junipers, so you kind of have that juxtaposition
of the purply black foliage against the blue junipers.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
YEP.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I also have one that I planted against my orange
brick garage. Oh that looks really cool and kind of
sighted it so that it would almost grow like a
you know, like a shadow puppet being projected onto the wall,
and that really lets the color pop. It really lets
the structure pop. And it really I think makes the
(18:37):
case for plants, you know, being planted in a cooperative
way in the landscape that accentuates everything.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I agree. And the backdrop will give you that illusion
of depth. And as I said at the outset, if
you're taking a picture of a person, a portrait, the
backdrop can mean everything as it relates to your focal point.
We learn that in elementary school when they gave us
three or four different backdrop choices for our school picture, right, yeah,
(19:06):
and they were all corny and stupid.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
But now they have way more.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, you know, we had the mostly you could get
the space lasers if you were born in the eighties anyway,
So lace up elderberry. It's a great space saver. It's
a very versatile plant in the landscape. But again I
have found over and over again, and this actually probably
dates back to my horticulture school when we were learning
(19:29):
about thundercloud dark leaf cherry, probably one of the most
popular street trees, at least on the East coast, and
the teacher said, you know, they look like a black
hole in the landscape. And so I the first time
that made that connection, it was like, yeah, they need
something to help set them off so they're not just
sucking all the life out of the garden. Now, there's
(19:50):
lots of creative ways that you can do that, but
I think that laced up is one that really lends
itself to some creative gardening and creative placement. Like black lace,
it's sister plant. It looks amazing when it flowers, especially
because it has bright pink flowers, so that really helps
to kind of create that contrast that keeps it from
(20:11):
looking like a black hole. But of course the flowers
last for you know, a couple of weeks, and then
when it forms berries, the berries are black too. So
so much texture and life in this plant. But you
really need to, I think, be creative in how you
cite it to let that fully come through. So whether
that means a hedge of tall evergreens, hedge of tall perennials,
(20:34):
you know, certainly it could be planted within something like
my silphium very tall, and that could work as well,
but you really want to let it interplay with other colors,
other textures. Now, lace up elderberry, like black lace elderberry,
is not the most heat tolerant plant. And I know
I always disappoint our warm climate friends when I say that.
(20:55):
But these elderberries are hardy down to USTA Zone four
and heat tolerant only through USDA Zone seven. The plants
will actually grow in warmer climates, but they will not
be black. They will be very, very green. It's just
like the same kind of thing that happens with panicle hydrange,
just not developing their full color in warm climates, and
so that's kind of, you know, takes away a lot
(21:15):
of the funds. So this is definitely a plant that
is for cooler climates. And the good news if you
live in like zone four, have trouble growing Japanese maple,
this is a great plant to get a lot of
that same kind of you know, look and charm. Although
it does not get grateful color as Japanese maples do.
Grows in full sun to parts on. I have it
(21:37):
in both here in Michigan. I have not noticed any
substantial difference really in how black the foliage becomes whether
it's in parts on or full sun. So that is
a very good thing if it's outdoors. And of course,
like I was, de Elderberry's good dear resistance, uh huh,
so love it lots of unique ways to use this
if you want something that's really different that you've never
(21:57):
seen before, and you have a special place where you
can really just put something and enjoy it, especially if
you like, you know, those weeping spruces that look like people,
as Lisa Roper was talking about in our Follies episode
to at Chanta Clear, this is another great way to
do that much faster growing. So it'll get you that
great look much faster. So you will find a lastep
(22:18):
elderberry at your local garden center. If you need to
find a local garden center, just visit proven Winner's Color
Choice dot com. We've got you covered there. We're going
to take a little break. When we come back, we're
opening up the mailbag, so please stay tuned at Proven
Winner's Color Choice Shrubs. We know that a better landscape
(22:40):
starts with a better shrub. Our team of experts tests
and evaluates all of our flowering shrubs in Evergreens for
eight to ten years to ensure they outperform what's already
on the market. For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs to accentuate
your home and express your personal style, look for Proven
Winners Shrubs in the distinctive white container at your low
garden center or learn more at proven Winners, color choice
(23:03):
dot com. Creating's gardening friends, and welcome back to the
Gardening Simplified Show. Where it is the meteorological start to fall,
not the astronomical one. We still have a couple more weeks.
So as we were saying last week, you can take
your pick. If you want it to be fall, you
can pretend it's fall. If you still want it to
be summer, you can just go along with astronomical and
(23:24):
you get a couple more weeks of summer summer, even
if the weather is making it a little bit difficult
for you to believe that it is indeed still summer.
But the light is fantastic right now. The sun is
just beautiful. And as you wind down your garden for
the season, perhaps you have questions about what you should
or shouldn't do, in which case I invite you to
(23:46):
reach out to us at Gardening Simplified on air dot com.
There's a contact button you can send us your question, and,
of course, because we do want you to get answers
to your questions and we can't answer that many questions
on each episode, you can also reach out to us
at proven Winner's Color Choice dot com and use the
contact there and you will get a personalized answer from
a horticulturist, not a robot or an AI or an
(24:08):
LM or anything like that, from someone who actually cares
about your success. So please don't hesitate to do that
if you are sitting there wondering about something.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
We also love to hear from people who.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Want to share their triumphs, their hot takes, their ideas
and show us your backdrops. There you go, and to
that end, our listener and fan Jackie sent a photo
of her folly and it is a gazebo, so of
course a gazebo is useful, but because it is a folly,
she went the extra mile and put this kind of
(24:42):
fun cupula on top that calls to mind like a
lighthouse or a widow's walk in a coastal home. So
it has like a little bump out with windows on it.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And it's right on the.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Shore of Lake Erie. Yeah, so a very cute little
folly there and looks like a very fun place spend time.
So thanks for that, Jackie.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
There are so many great gardeners along the lake shore
of Lake Erie in Ohio. Oh yeah, I can't believe
the number.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Like Jackie, Cleveland is an absolute gardening destination. The bit
which is people not something people would expect for you
to say. But if you ever get fortunate enough to
go to a private garden tours in Cleveland, I have
seen gardens that nobody would ever.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Expect sure to be in Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Lake Touny, I think that might be south of Cleveland,
but a lot of very cool stuff there.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So nice. Well, Ronnie writes to us, can you let
me know if I can Chelsea chop my el Nino chetalpa?
Every year, I have a new one planted right near
some raised beds. Don't want it to get very big.
I can move it technically, but I'm running out of space.
My only available space other than that would be over
gas or sewer lines, which makes me a little nervous.
(25:54):
I look forward to your response. Thank you. Well, this
is a plant that does get pretty big.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
It does get big, and you know, I've been having
a very interesting time learning from this plant. As everyone knows,
I do love it in the fragrance is amazing. So
in my yard what I do is I cut it
back very hard in spring, so I do wait until
the foliage starts to come out. And what I've found
for me is this plant does not get as huge
(26:22):
as it potentially can for two reasons. Well three One
I cut it back. Two I have my soils very
very dry, and it's in full sun. So all those
things basically combined to kind of stress. I don't want
to say stress it out, because it still performs great.
But if this is this is one of those plants
that if it's in all ideal conditions, getting regular moisture,
(26:45):
you know, all of that, then it's going to grow
a lot more. If you live in a warm climate,
it's going to grow a lot more than it will
for us here in Michigan. But as I've described on
the show before, cutting something back isn't always a great
way to keep it small because what happens as that
root system gets larger and larger and more established, it's
(27:07):
just a bigger engine to fuel growth after you cut
it back. And so it's not really like, Okay, I
cut it back, and now we'll only grow back, you know,
three feet.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
It will be like, oh, I.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Have this huge root system, so surprise, here's ten feet
of growth, you know, for this summer. But what you
can do, I think, and what I have found is
that this is a plant. It definitely blooms on new wood,
so it doesn't create It creates basically one kind of
flower cluster for each tip that forms. So you know,
you get the initial bloom in early summer or you
(27:39):
know about June for us here in Michigan, on the
growth that came out in spring, and then as it
starts to branch out, that's when you get those subsequent
blooms and that's what keeps it blooming. So I have
heard from some people in very warm climates where the
growth is maybe going to shut down a bit when
it's very hot, that they aren't getting as long of
a bloom time as we are seeing in Michigan. But
(28:00):
in that case, I think doing a Chelsea chop or
which is to say, cutting it back in in you
know June somewhere around the Chelsea Flower Show in England.
I think that what that would do is it will
delay that first bloom, but it will cause branching and
then you will have a lot more flowers on it.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So it is largely a question of where you live
in your climate, but you can certainly do it. And
the other thing about these types of things is, you know,
of course we're always happy to help, but something like this,
it's not really going to harm the plant. The worse
it's going to happen is it doesn't bloom. It's always
worth taking an experiment on. You know. We'd love to
hear that from you, but you know, like as long
as you're like, okay, well, I'm willing to forego the
(28:41):
flowers this year in the interest of learning about this plant,
you know, that's that's that's how your garden.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
That's what gardening is.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
If you're keeping score at home. We're talking about al
Nino chitalpa and I have one in my landscape and
I've been amazed at its growth Stacey, and I think
my approach is going to be similar to a bud
lea a bud lea. When I cut it back hard
in spring, I think I benefit from more flowers in
some ways.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Oh definitely. This is one of those plants. So yeah,
don't be afraid unless you're growing it as a small tree,
which you certainly can do. If you're growing it as
a shrub, yeah, get in there, cut it back and
it'll be none the worse for the wear.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Debbie writs to us, I just purchased a let's dance
can do Hydrangea? I live in main zone five B.
Is it okay to plant now the end of August?
Or should I wait until spring? Also? If I do
plant now, should I fertilize?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Okay? Now?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I wanted to answer Debbie's question on air today because
it's probably a question that a lot of people have
about can they plant things right now? And normally when
you are pushing your hardiness zone, or you're planting something
that is susceptible to a winter damage, which most hydrange
of macropillas definitely are, we usually recommend waiting till spring.
(29:55):
On the other hand, here we are it's fall, there's
bargains galore in the garden center, and that plant will
almost certainly be much happier planted than it would be
trying to overwinter it in its container. So the answer
is yes, you should plant it, even if it is
a temporary planting, because you're going to be, you know,
waiting for something to shake out or not sure where
(30:16):
you want to put it. It is better for anything
that you get to spend winter in the ground than
to spend it in the container. But absolutely, under no
circumstances should you fertilize, especially big leaf hydrangs like let's
stands can do is because that will just push a
lot of soft growth that will actually make the plant
more susceptible to winter damage. This is what everybody in
(30:40):
the industry does. They start dialing back the moisture and
water and fertilizer on big leaf hydranges by about late
July early August. It's a very crucial part. Hydrangeas are
very sensitive to having the abundance of resources. You know,
that will let them get bigger if they have all
of those resources. So it's important to kind of curtail
(31:05):
those resources so that the plant can enter dormancy, harden
off all of its growth and foliage, and that will
give it a much better winter and a much better
year ahead. So do not fertilize any hydranges right now.
Save that until the spring, even if they're brand new.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I would agree probably naturally, there are plenty of nutrients
in the soil. Anyhow, I think it's more important to
mulch it. Yes, agree, get it in the ground, and
I think you're going to be surprised DEBI and main
zone five B. Yes, the air temperatures can drop pretty
quick and it can get pretty cold heading into November,
(31:40):
but that soil stays warm for a while, having benefited
from a long summer.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Right, So that means the roots are growing and it's
doing everything that you want it to do. But you
definitely don't want it to go into winter on human terms.
You want it to go into winter on hydrangea terms.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
And you know where.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
It's another great point that you made. When you buy
a new plant from the garden center. Honestly, whether it's
summer or spring, summer or fall, they have a time
release fertilizer incorporated in their. Chances are most places will
have been fertilizing with some regularity anyway, So for new plants,
like their nutritional needs are met, you don't really need
(32:19):
to go out on a limb and try to accommodate them.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Being a person who's always picking up plants well into fall,
I can tell you that I've got plenty of those
time release fertilizer granules in the carpet of my car
and in between the seats that I end up vacuuming out.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh yes, well, your car is well nutrition anyway, So
thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
We're going to take a little break.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
When we come back, we're picking up our conversation on
backdrops and fences, so police stay tuned. Thanks for listening
to the Gardening Simplified podcast, brought to you by Proven
Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and
everga means are chiled and tested by experts with your
success in mind. Learn more at Proven winnerscolor Choice dot com.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified show. As we talk
about structure in the garden, you know, structure, shape and form.
It enhances a landscape. It provides year round interest. If
you're one of those people who gets the blues in
winter like me, if you've got some cool structures or
backdrops in the garden, maybe a dying vine from the
(33:30):
previous season that's on the structure, at least it helps
give you some interest during the winter period. A fence
also extends the architecture of a house to the edges
of the property. And I also think that if you
have a tight spot or a tight garden area, if
you use white it can kind of enclose that space.
(33:53):
But when you use dark colors, or a black fence.
It actually makes the space feel larger and it just
feels so much more comfortable to me. And again, I
believe that it makes a great backdrop to the plant material.
So you want you want that situation where you have
a backdrop, but you don't want to feel penned in,
(34:18):
so to speak, which leads me to my hot take.
We're entering the fall season. So you know how much
I love summer, Stacey, But there's one thing about summer
that I do not like, and that is indoor winter.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, indoor winter. That season is finally ending. Why when
you go to movie theaters stores, I don't care where
you go. Go sit in a friend's car they blashed
you with air. Can listen in my car in summertime.
I have a winter coat, a stocking, camp, snow pants, boots,
(34:59):
everything I need to survive indoor winter. Enough with the
over dialed up air conditioning already, I can't take any
more of it. I get physically ill from it.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, it can get pretty chilly in some places, and
you know that's just not very energy efficient.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
If I wanted to visit Vostok Experimental Research Station in Antarctica,
I'll go there, but don't give it to me in
your billing. Now. I understand there are people who have allergies,
and of course you have things like nursing homes and hospitals.
You've got people who are working hard. Maybe it's a
(35:37):
restaurant and they're busy cooking. I understand there. Yeah, But
I'm talking about just for the general person having to
survive indoor winter. That's my hot take today. All right, okay,
all right, where was I? So? I was going to
share a little bit of history. Osage orange thorny young trees.
(35:59):
They were pruned to promote thick, bushy growth, and I
thought this phrase was cool, Stacey. The term horse high,
both strong, and hog tight was used to describe osage
orange and it was readily used in places like Kansas
prior to when barbed wire was invented. And don't ask
(36:21):
me when barbed wire was invented, but somebody invented it
at some point. So that's a plant that has great
history to it. Another one, as long as we're talking
about fences and structures, is black locusts.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yes, very similar.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So I need to go back to osage orange for
a moment because this is such a cool plant. So
this plant will be making the rounds I think in
the coming weeks where it goes viral on social media
with people claiming that the very interesting green brain like
fruits or repel spiders. They do not, but you know,
(36:57):
you'll still see people selling them or claiming it or whatever.
They don't, But that's still not a bad reason to
have them around because they're very cool looking.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It's amazing what you see on the web.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yes, indeed, and the trees themselves are very cool looking.
They have very unique bark, and the reason they were
used as fences is because they are thorny, so it
would help to prevent livestock and that kind of thing
from going in between the fencers. But the coolest thing, okay,
this is not related to it being a backdrop. The
coolest thing about osage orange is that its seeds, those big,
(37:28):
giant brain like oranges which are green, were dispersed by
wooly mammoths, and the osage orange stopped spreading across North
America when the mammoths went extinct because there was no
longer anything that could spread the fruits.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Wow, they're the only ones that would eat the fruit.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
They were the only ones that would eat the fruits.
There's a fascinating article online called the Trees that Miss
the Mammoths. So if you are interested in more information,
that would be a great choice. And black locusts, yeah,
their great choice.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Also very thorny, yes, oh thorny, oh, black locusts. I
tell you, while you're while you were talking about oceae orange,
I was thinking when I was a kid, that's what
we would do all the time. We would get shovel handles,
use them as baseball bats and hit these osage oranges
for hours out in the field. Come home and you'd
(38:24):
be picking the green on, yes, and your clothing that brought.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Back the Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
They have a very strong kind of resinous smell, not
appetizing at all. And you know there you see them
here and there in Michigan. They were never native to Michigan.
They didn't come native this far north, but you do
sometimes I think maybe around old farms and that kind
of thing. See a vestige of an ocege orange fence
here and there.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Awesome. Yeah. Black locusts so fast growing nitrogen fixing tree.
Native to eastern uh North America. It's known for its
deep furrowed bark, And you're right, Stacey, very thorny twigs.
As a matter of fact, it's not a tree that
I would recommend for your landscape. Do not find them
(39:09):
to be attractive. But it is a native tree. As
a matter of fact, I had one in my landscape
at one time. I bought it from American Forests because
it was an offspring of the black locust that Abraham
Lincoln stood next to when he delivered the Gettysburg address.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Well, that's a good reason to grow on at.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Least certificate that said.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
The flowers are great, really fragrant. And when way back
when I was in horticulture school, I know that the
tree crew always had an agreement with the orchid team
because the black locust is very dense wood, really good
for burning, really good for it's really rot resistant. So
the people who took care of the orchid collection at
(39:55):
NYBG would request black locust twigs for mounting orchids on
because as they would hold up better to the humidity
in the landscape.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
So it's interesting, and I'm glad you brought that up,
because that's where I was going with this. There are
many people who believe locust poles are more durable as
fencing post fence material or if you're putting up a structure.
I have a picture on YouTube of a playground going
in with locust poles. You're right, Stacey. They are so
(40:23):
dense and so durable that many people favor them to
womanized or treated lumber.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Sure, if you can find them. I've never seen them,
but I've never looked for them, but out there they
are a very cool plant. And you know you mentioned
the bark. It's one of those types of barks you
can get to know an idea tree because it's so distinctive.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You bet. As far as backdrop plants are concerned, of course,
we all have our favorites, but I've developed a new favorite, Stacy. Now.
It used to be joe pie weed or tall helianthus
that I would put in the background. Of course, I
love of cannas and pillar rows of sharon and viburnum,
all great backdrop plants. But I have really become a
(41:09):
big fan of calicanthus ooh yest because it grows so fast,
the foliage is so green and glossy, and let's say
I have it next to a structure, that foliage just
jumps out, not to speak of the amazing, interesting flowers
that are on the plant, But I recommend that as
(41:31):
a structural backdrop.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
That's a great choice because it is also very dense.
It has got a lot of foliage on it, so
it really creates that kind of lush, dense backdrop that's
so good for setting off other plants as well as
its own flowers. I love watching the I love the
way that the flowers and foliage complement each other on
that plant.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So take a look at composition, take a look at
fencing material. You may think, hey, I just want to
grow plants, but you have issues. You have deer or
rabbits to control. You don't want the fence to be
gaudy or to distract from the plant material or the
landscape that you have. And then in other situations, like
I said in our first segment, using these galvanized steel
(42:17):
panels or various types of wood, or these different types
of mesh to create fencing where you either create a
situation where you can see through it and it dissolves
into the landscape, or it creates a backdrop to be
able to plant some really colorful plants. I'm really getting
into that and structure within the landscape. As a matter
(42:38):
of fact, Adriana put together a wonderful video of your garden.
Yeah and my garden, and we have that out on YouTube.
And now that that video is out there, I've begun
my work on my pergola. Ooh, there you go, Stacey.
There's for the posts, one of the posts right there.
And interestingly enough, again online you can buy the components,
(43:02):
not the wood, but just the components to put together
your own para live.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
You know, I like this attitude that you have because,
as someone who got fencing quotes, fencing is expensive. So
if you want to save some money and do something
that's more creative and unique to you, it definitely pays
to think a little bit outside the box there.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
That's exactly it. Don't be left defenseless. Well this was fun,
it was yeah. Thank you Stacy, thank you Rick, thanks Adriana,
and thanks to you for watching us on YouTube, listening
to our podcast or our radio version of the show.
Have yourself a great week.
Broadcasting from Iconic Studio A here at proven Winners, Color
Choice Shrubs. It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show with Stacy, Hervella, me,
Rick Weiss, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Stacy, Today,
let's talk about backdrops and fencing and walls. A backdrop
for your landscape is just like framing a picture with
(00:23):
your camera. Is your background picture perfect? A backdrop behind
a photograph subject can make or break your image, and
I think you could probably say the same with your
landscape or some of the plants that you place in
your landscape. You can also create an illusion of depth.
(00:46):
What's a good depth for a layered garden? Many people
would say proceed at least five six feet out from
a wall or a fence or your home. All of
these issues relate to adding structured to a garden. And
I have to admit, Stacy again, you know how much
I enjoy five gallon buckets. I've gotten into screening and
(01:09):
walls big time.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, but not with five gallon buckets. Five gallon buckets
are just as okay. I didn't know if you were
working on some sort of new idea here with with
the buckets. But you know, as far as backdrops go,
if that's what we're talking about, we have to at
least mention that our backdrop has changed because we are
in meteorological fall.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
And while we're talking about the podcast, I do just
want to mention happy third anniversary our first show. Our
first episode aired the Saturday after Labor Day, so the
day's not exactly right, but the timing is so Happy anniversary, guys.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Happy anniversary. Time flies when you're having fun.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes, So not to derail from the garden backdrop conversation,
I just thought I should mention it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, I love it. I love it. So let's talk
about structure today and fencing. I've got a number of
things to share. As a matter of fact, it'll be
a try it before you buy it kind of segment.
And some people use chain link fence, for example, to
delineate their property line. I want to recommend that if
(02:11):
you want it to not be noticeable, make it black.
That's my opinion. Chain link fence privacy slats are something
that I'm putting in my fence right now. Let me
grab this here a minute for you, Stacey, and I'll pass.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
That Wow for our YouTube vision in studio appearance here. Yeah,
so you're threading this through the links on the chain
link fence, and.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Very easy to do. You just slide them into something
they call a viper track. But what it does is
it gives you a black background to your fence and
green plants. The color green just pops when it has
a black backdrop. So inexpensive and easy. That's one of
(02:57):
the things I'm doing in my landscape right now.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That's a huge improvement over the classic galvanized chain link
fence that so ubiquitous.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
But let's talk rust here a minute. Also, I'm working
on some panels with my neighbor, and what we're using
is eight foot galvanized panels that many times you will see,
for example, like on the roof of a pole burn
using them with wood to create these backdrops or barriers
(03:30):
within the landscape. And then what we found, and for
folks watching on YouTube you can see what we're building here.
What we found was the galvanized steel when the sun's
in the right position, it will blind you, oh deer,
oh dear, yes, and possibly burn the plant. So what
(03:52):
we're monking around with is to basically rough up the
galvanized surface, abraz it and then making a mixture of
vinegar and salt and spraying it on to speed up rust.
We wanted to rust, maybe take a blow torch to it.
But it's just an example of what you can do
(04:13):
to create barriers within your landscape or backdrops that really
make the plants stand out and be a focal.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
P So you're working on this with your neighbor because
you're trying to develop mutual privacy or is your neighbor
into this plant backdrop idea as well.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So on next week's show, we're going to talk about
design plants and designing within the landscape. And my next
door neighbor is a guy who's really great at interior
design and flipping houses. He knows nothing about plants. Okay,
yet you get them in the landscape with plants, it's
(04:52):
amazing how he can put things together. Well, we work
on these backdrops together between our two properties to extend
cate the plants, and it's just a kick in the plants.
And we're going to give you the link for those panels.
They're inexpensive, not fun to work with, but again it's
an example of some of the components that you can
(05:14):
use to create barriers or fencing with in your landscape.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That's very creative, you know. I think that people's first
instinct very often is to look for something ready made.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yes, But if you.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Want something that is more affordable, or something it's more unique,
or something that gives you a chance to kind of
express some personal style and ideas, then it pays to,
you know, think about it and put together your own
idea and come up with something that's even better.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah. And I think transparency is a key also, So
you basically have two elements here, creating a screen that
is not transparent that really allows the plants to play often,
or a transparent screen if all you're trying to do
is create a border and keep out deer. Now I've
(05:57):
got another try it before you buy it, Sam Pole
here for you, Stacy. For a while I was using
this material right here, which is a mesh like material.
This is a joke, and that's a joke. This material
is a joke, and you get tangled in it, you
get frustrated. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And if you buy too cheap a one ask me
how I know it rips very easily. I've also had
birds get tangled in it. Unfortunately I was able to
rescue them and get them out. But if I hadn't been,
they would have perished in this silly netting. I once
had a baby bunny get stuck in it. It's okay,
he got out. I got him out, but he was panicking,
you know. So yes, I have forsworn this material, this
(06:38):
regular deer netting.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Same for me. So I picked up this material. Take
a look at that. So that is called ten X
deer fence. Great stuff comes six foot by one hundred
foot in rolls and have a picture for you on YouTube.
In use in my dear compound.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
How do you cut it? Just with your regular.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Nice or wire cutters, but again using a wire mesh
or something like this ten X material to create this
deer barrier makes a world of difference within your landscape.
You don't even know it's there. You can basically see
through it again using the color black. But it gives
you the result that you want, and that is to
(07:23):
put up a barrier and keep the deer nice.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
You know. In my garden tour that we recently posted
on YouTube, I talk a bit about the wire mesh
that I've used to surround my vegetable garden and it
is galvanized, but I really like it because it goes
with the metal of the tea posts that we used
to make it, and it does kind of create I
guess I would say maybe slightly industrial chic kind of vibes.
(07:49):
But it was very low cost, It's super functional, and
I'm very happy with it. I'm having the best vegetable
garden ever this year with the new backdrop surrounding there.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I love that. That's really good. Right, well, you know,
you think about it. The picket fence is something that
we associate with small town America, colonial roots, cape cod
that sort of thing. But there is so much more
than picket fence or dog eared fencing. There are all
sorts of options, and I guess that's the point that
(08:19):
I'm trying to make. And they also make a big
difference as it relates to structure within your landscape. Helps
give some depth, some background. And then again, if you,
for example, use the color black, green and other colors
really tend to pop out and the fence is less noticeable.
(08:40):
But of course, with these slats that you can put
through a chain link fence, there's a variety of colors
you can choose from from gray to burgundy to blue.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Oh, so you could do like a whole pattern.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Exactly what chance all this kind of fun stuff. And
that's the kind of stuff I love to do in
my life landscape, just like Old Ned. You know, I
always talk about Old Ned and my fencing. Limerick today
relates to Old Ned. Old Ned needs to decompress the
deer his property transgress. Despite all his rantings, they ate
(09:15):
all his plantings and left Old Ned defenceless. Old Ned's
plantings had grown lush, but now are reduced to just mush.
He kicked the stubble in disgust, his balance failed to adjust,
landing on his keyster in the brush. There you go. Oh,
rough day for a rough day for Old Ned. And
(09:36):
keister is a word in the Merriam Webster Dictionary.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
So if you're playing scrabble and you have a K,
that's a good one to keep in mind.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Exactly, I'll bear that in well. Sorry, oh, everyone needs
a good fence around their property or some good backdrops
to provide that structure. And by the way, along that
line and segment four, I got to.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Give you a hot takee oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, And I'm gonna let it rip, Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
All right, I will be counting the minutes.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So a wire fence is ideal if you want transparency
to see through it. And then of course the reverse
would be a screen that you can build to provide
that great backdrop that really shows off your plants. You
can use reclaimed fence posts, old wood. You can grow
(10:38):
vines through a fence. Of course, in a spellier fence
I've seen cool a spell your fences, a steel fence,
a large gap fence. If you have large gaps in
your fence, it's not going to keep the deer out,
but it's going to maximize natural light. And the result
is the yard that looks more welcoming from the outside
and feels larger from the inside. Stained wood, horizontal slatting,
(11:04):
wrought iron, wooden, wire, picket, so many different.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Choices, so many options.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I want them to You want it to kind of
sink into the background. You don't want it to steal
the show, but actually just enhance the plant material and
make it look sharper. So we'll talk more about that
coming up in segment four. We'll see how Stacey ties
this all together in Plants on Trial, that's coming up
(11:31):
after the short break. Here on the Gardening Simplified.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
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(11:55):
proven Winner's Color Choice dot com. Gardening Friends and welcome
back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the order of
the day is Fences and backdrops a very key part
of any good garden or landscape. And sometimes the fence
is about strict utilitarian like just you know, keeping the
(12:16):
kids and dog within the parameters of the yard. Sometimes
it's decoratives, sometimes it's both, and sometimes you know, it's
a living thing like a plant. And you said, Rick,
everybody needs a fence, and that is so true. I
desperately need a fence. And it occurred to me after
you said that that probably a lot of listeners who
hear me complain about all the deer in my yard say, well, jeez, Stacy,
(12:37):
why don't you just get a fence already? Well, I have,
what is probably the worst possible type of yard for
a fence. That is why I don't have a fence.
So my driveway is all the way at the right
side of my property, so if I was going to
fence off the yard.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
My garage is also all the.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Way in the back corner of my property. So if
I was going to fence off the yard, I would
need a gate. And you know, my house doesn't really
quite rise to the occasion of an automatic gate.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
That's a little bit much for my mind.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
One of those gates like the Beverly Hills.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
It might be a little overkill from where I live.
So I have that whole issue with the gate. And
you know, I've gotten I've gotten quotes on getting a
fence and trying to take care of this, but it's just,
you know, the gate is always a deal breaker for
us because they're like, oh, it's going to be a
total pain in the winter, the ice and snow is
going to build up, and you know you leave the
(13:36):
gate open one night, well then the deer like, hey,
it's a field day. So I have fences on either
side of my property that belong to my neighbors that
they put up, and I'm growing a back fence line
of junipers, so I planted that this is their third year.
It's a variety called blue arrow, actually is it. Yeah,
(13:57):
it's blue arrow, and they're looking good, but they're a
little bit slower to get established. But I have found
really that that background of plants, I mean, that's where
my vibe is. So even though I have a lot
of frustrations about being unable to completely fence off my
yard easily, it has provided other opportunities as these things
go in gardening. And I'm really happy with the way
(14:20):
that that backdrop of blue erow jennifer, which is not
a proven winter's colored choice shrub, so that is not
today's plant Montreal. I'm getting to that in one moment,
but really happy with the color and texture that that
is bringing in. As that knits together and grows more,
it'll be a great privacy and plant backdrop for my yard.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I like the way you describe that knitting together because
when you look at American history, for example, in the
Plains States, osag George, Oh, yeah, and how that would
knit together and create this fence that was just unreal.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, and you see you do still see them sometimes
around Michigan, but certainly more when you go into like
the lower Midwest Missouri, Oklahoma. Down there, you'll see a
lot of those old o sage orange fences, which are
very cool. But you're probably thinking that today's plant on
trial then is a backdrop plant, a plant that can
be used as a backdrop, But we would be wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It is a plant that benefits from being planted in
front of a backdrop. Oh nice, because some plants really
need other plants or other structure to set them off.
And I find that this is true very much so
in the world of purple and black plants. Love them
(15:41):
beautiful plants. You fall in love at the garden center,
You get it home, you put it in the ground,
and you're like, wait, where did it go? These new
darkly fucaras you know that are like near black, so
beautiful you can't wait to get them home. And then
you plant it and you're like, it blends directly in
with the soil. And similarly, today's plant on trial lace
step Elderberry can very much do that. It can become
(16:03):
kind of like a black hole or blending in unless
it has something else planted behind it. Or around it
to set it off. So a lot of people are
familiar with our black lace elderberry, so plant that's been
around for a very long time, still one of our
best sellers to this day. And black lace elderberry is
(16:24):
very similar to the native American elderberries that you will
see blooming in June, but it was developed in Europe.
It is thought to be more of a European species,
but it looks and acts basically just like our standard
Zambucus canadensis or our elderberry, but instead of green foliage,
it has dark purple black foliage, and it's very very lacy,
(16:48):
as you might guess by the name black lace. And
so it's finally cut and gives it just this incredible
texture and as beautiful and alluring as that dark foliage is.
Like I said one, sometimes when you get it home,
unless you have something behind it, it's just like a
black hole in the landscape, and you know, you see it,
and it's like it kind of just like sucks all
(17:10):
the life out of the garden. And it should of
course be you know, vivacious and interesting. So I have
found because I do have a number of laced up
elderberries in my garden because I love them. They're so
cool that they really benefit from being planted against something.
They have everything that black lace has, except black lace
gets to be six to ten feet tall and wide,
(17:31):
so that is a very big potential black hole in
your landscape if you're not citing it carefully. Lace up
elderberry gets to be six to ten feet tall but
only three to five feet wide, so it's a narrow,
fastigit plant. But I have actually found that this more
unusual habit to me necessitates it being planted against something,
(17:53):
perhaps even more so so that it looks deliberate. That
really statuesque kind of habit that it develops is best accentuated,
and I think there's a lot of ways you can
do that. I think it looks fabulous up against my
blue arrow junipers, so you kind of have that juxtaposition
of the purply black foliage against the blue junipers.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
YEP.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I also have one that I planted against my orange
brick garage. Oh that looks really cool and kind of
sighted it so that it would almost grow like a
you know, like a shadow puppet being projected onto the wall,
and that really lets the color pop. It really lets
the structure pop. And it really I think makes the
(18:37):
case for plants, you know, being planted in a cooperative
way in the landscape that accentuates everything.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I agree. And the backdrop will give you that illusion
of depth. And as I said at the outset, if
you're taking a picture of a person, a portrait, the
backdrop can mean everything as it relates to your focal point.
We learn that in elementary school when they gave us
three or four different backdrop choices for our school picture, right, yeah,
(19:06):
and they were all corny and stupid.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
But now they have way more.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, you know, we had the mostly you could get
the space lasers if you were born in the eighties anyway,
So lace up elderberry. It's a great space saver. It's
a very versatile plant in the landscape. But again I
have found over and over again, and this actually probably
dates back to my horticulture school when we were learning
(19:29):
about thundercloud dark leaf cherry, probably one of the most
popular street trees, at least on the East coast, and
the teacher said, you know, they look like a black
hole in the landscape. And so I the first time
that made that connection, it was like, yeah, they need
something to help set them off so they're not just
sucking all the life out of the garden. Now, there's
(19:50):
lots of creative ways that you can do that, but
I think that laced up is one that really lends
itself to some creative gardening and creative placement. Like black lace,
it's sister plant. It looks amazing when it flowers, especially
because it has bright pink flowers, so that really helps
to kind of create that contrast that keeps it from
(20:11):
looking like a black hole. But of course the flowers
last for you know, a couple of weeks, and then
when it forms berries, the berries are black too. So
so much texture and life in this plant. But you
really need to, I think, be creative in how you
cite it to let that fully come through. So whether
that means a hedge of tall evergreens, hedge of tall perennials,
(20:34):
you know, certainly it could be planted within something like
my silphium very tall, and that could work as well,
but you really want to let it interplay with other colors,
other textures. Now, lace up elderberry, like black lace elderberry,
is not the most heat tolerant plant. And I know
I always disappoint our warm climate friends when I say that.
(20:55):
But these elderberries are hardy down to USTA Zone four
and heat tolerant only through USDA Zone seven. The plants
will actually grow in warmer climates, but they will not
be black. They will be very, very green. It's just
like the same kind of thing that happens with panicle hydrange,
just not developing their full color in warm climates, and
so that's kind of, you know, takes away a lot
(21:15):
of the funds. So this is definitely a plant that
is for cooler climates. And the good news if you
live in like zone four, have trouble growing Japanese maple,
this is a great plant to get a lot of
that same kind of you know, look and charm. Although
it does not get grateful color as Japanese maples do.
Grows in full sun to parts on. I have it
(21:37):
in both here in Michigan. I have not noticed any
substantial difference really in how black the foliage becomes whether
it's in parts on or full sun. So that is
a very good thing if it's outdoors. And of course,
like I was, de Elderberry's good dear resistance, uh huh,
so love it lots of unique ways to use this
if you want something that's really different that you've never
(21:57):
seen before, and you have a special place where you
can really just put something and enjoy it, especially if
you like, you know, those weeping spruces that look like people,
as Lisa Roper was talking about in our Follies episode
to at Chanta Clear, this is another great way to
do that much faster growing. So it'll get you that
great look much faster. So you will find a lastep
(22:18):
elderberry at your local garden center. If you need to
find a local garden center, just visit proven Winner's Color
Choice dot com. We've got you covered there. We're going
to take a little break. When we come back, we're
opening up the mailbag, so please stay tuned at Proven
Winner's Color Choice Shrubs. We know that a better landscape
(22:40):
starts with a better shrub. Our team of experts tests
and evaluates all of our flowering shrubs in Evergreens for
eight to ten years to ensure they outperform what's already
on the market. For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs to accentuate
your home and express your personal style, look for Proven
Winners Shrubs in the distinctive white container at your low
garden center or learn more at proven Winners, color choice
(23:03):
dot com. Creating's gardening friends, and welcome back to the
Gardening Simplified Show. Where it is the meteorological start to fall,
not the astronomical one. We still have a couple more weeks.
So as we were saying last week, you can take
your pick. If you want it to be fall, you
can pretend it's fall. If you still want it to
be summer, you can just go along with astronomical and
(23:24):
you get a couple more weeks of summer summer, even
if the weather is making it a little bit difficult
for you to believe that it is indeed still summer.
But the light is fantastic right now. The sun is
just beautiful. And as you wind down your garden for
the season, perhaps you have questions about what you should
or shouldn't do, in which case I invite you to
(23:46):
reach out to us at Gardening Simplified on air dot com.
There's a contact button you can send us your question, and,
of course, because we do want you to get answers
to your questions and we can't answer that many questions
on each episode, you can also reach out to us
at proven Winner's Color Choice dot com and use the
contact there and you will get a personalized answer from
a horticulturist, not a robot or an AI or an
(24:08):
LM or anything like that, from someone who actually cares
about your success. So please don't hesitate to do that
if you are sitting there wondering about something.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
We also love to hear from people who.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Want to share their triumphs, their hot takes, their ideas
and show us your backdrops. There you go, and to
that end, our listener and fan Jackie sent a photo
of her folly and it is a gazebo, so of
course a gazebo is useful, but because it is a folly,
she went the extra mile and put this kind of
(24:42):
fun cupula on top that calls to mind like a
lighthouse or a widow's walk in a coastal home. So
it has like a little bump out with windows on it.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And it's right on the.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Shore of Lake Erie. Yeah, so a very cute little
folly there and looks like a very fun place spend time.
So thanks for that, Jackie.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
There are so many great gardeners along the lake shore
of Lake Erie in Ohio. Oh yeah, I can't believe
the number.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Like Jackie, Cleveland is an absolute gardening destination. The bit
which is people not something people would expect for you
to say. But if you ever get fortunate enough to
go to a private garden tours in Cleveland, I have
seen gardens that nobody would ever.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Expect sure to be in Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Lake Touny, I think that might be south of Cleveland,
but a lot of very cool stuff there.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So nice. Well, Ronnie writes to us, can you let
me know if I can Chelsea chop my el Nino chetalpa?
Every year, I have a new one planted right near
some raised beds. Don't want it to get very big.
I can move it technically, but I'm running out of space.
My only available space other than that would be over
gas or sewer lines, which makes me a little nervous.
(25:54):
I look forward to your response. Thank you. Well, this
is a plant that does get pretty big.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
It does get big, and you know, I've been having
a very interesting time learning from this plant. As everyone knows,
I do love it in the fragrance is amazing. So
in my yard what I do is I cut it
back very hard in spring, so I do wait until
the foliage starts to come out. And what I've found
for me is this plant does not get as huge
(26:22):
as it potentially can for two reasons. Well three One
I cut it back. Two I have my soils very
very dry, and it's in full sun. So all those
things basically combined to kind of stress. I don't want
to say stress it out, because it still performs great.
But if this is this is one of those plants
that if it's in all ideal conditions, getting regular moisture,
(26:45):
you know, all of that, then it's going to grow
a lot more. If you live in a warm climate,
it's going to grow a lot more than it will
for us here in Michigan. But as I've described on
the show before, cutting something back isn't always a great
way to keep it small because what happens as that
root system gets larger and larger and more established, it's
(27:07):
just a bigger engine to fuel growth after you cut
it back. And so it's not really like, Okay, I
cut it back, and now we'll only grow back, you know,
three feet.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
It will be like, oh, I.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Have this huge root system, so surprise, here's ten feet
of growth, you know, for this summer. But what you
can do, I think, and what I have found is
that this is a plant. It definitely blooms on new wood,
so it doesn't create It creates basically one kind of
flower cluster for each tip that forms. So you know,
you get the initial bloom in early summer or you
(27:39):
know about June for us here in Michigan, on the
growth that came out in spring, and then as it
starts to branch out, that's when you get those subsequent
blooms and that's what keeps it blooming. So I have
heard from some people in very warm climates where the
growth is maybe going to shut down a bit when
it's very hot, that they aren't getting as long of
a bloom time as we are seeing in Michigan. But
(28:00):
in that case, I think doing a Chelsea chop or
which is to say, cutting it back in in you
know June somewhere around the Chelsea Flower Show in England.
I think that what that would do is it will
delay that first bloom, but it will cause branching and
then you will have a lot more flowers on it.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So it is largely a question of where you live
in your climate, but you can certainly do it. And
the other thing about these types of things is, you know,
of course we're always happy to help, but something like this,
it's not really going to harm the plant. The worse
it's going to happen is it doesn't bloom. It's always
worth taking an experiment on. You know. We'd love to
hear that from you, but you know, like as long
as you're like, okay, well, I'm willing to forego the
(28:41):
flowers this year in the interest of learning about this plant,
you know, that's that's that's how your garden.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
That's what gardening is.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
If you're keeping score at home. We're talking about al
Nino chitalpa and I have one in my landscape and
I've been amazed at its growth Stacey, and I think
my approach is going to be similar to a bud
lea a bud lea. When I cut it back hard
in spring, I think I benefit from more flowers in
some ways.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Oh definitely. This is one of those plants. So yeah,
don't be afraid unless you're growing it as a small tree,
which you certainly can do. If you're growing it as
a shrub, yeah, get in there, cut it back and
it'll be none the worse for the wear.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Debbie writs to us, I just purchased a let's dance
can do Hydrangea? I live in main zone five B.
Is it okay to plant now the end of August?
Or should I wait until spring? Also? If I do
plant now, should I fertilize?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Okay? Now?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I wanted to answer Debbie's question on air today because
it's probably a question that a lot of people have
about can they plant things right now? And normally when
you are pushing your hardiness zone, or you're planting something
that is susceptible to a winter damage, which most hydrange
of macropillas definitely are, we usually recommend waiting till spring.
(29:55):
On the other hand, here we are it's fall, there's
bargains galore in the garden center, and that plant will
almost certainly be much happier planted than it would be
trying to overwinter it in its container. So the answer
is yes, you should plant it, even if it is
a temporary planting, because you're going to be, you know,
waiting for something to shake out or not sure where
(30:16):
you want to put it. It is better for anything
that you get to spend winter in the ground than
to spend it in the container. But absolutely, under no
circumstances should you fertilize, especially big leaf hydrangs like let's
stands can do is because that will just push a
lot of soft growth that will actually make the plant
more susceptible to winter damage. This is what everybody in
(30:40):
the industry does. They start dialing back the moisture and
water and fertilizer on big leaf hydranges by about late
July early August. It's a very crucial part. Hydrangeas are
very sensitive to having the abundance of resources. You know,
that will let them get bigger if they have all
of those resources. So it's important to kind of curtail
(31:05):
those resources so that the plant can enter dormancy, harden
off all of its growth and foliage, and that will
give it a much better winter and a much better
year ahead. So do not fertilize any hydranges right now.
Save that until the spring, even if they're brand new.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I would agree probably naturally, there are plenty of nutrients
in the soil. Anyhow, I think it's more important to
mulch it. Yes, agree, get it in the ground, and
I think you're going to be surprised DEBI and main
zone five B. Yes, the air temperatures can drop pretty
quick and it can get pretty cold heading into November,
(31:40):
but that soil stays warm for a while, having benefited
from a long summer.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Right, So that means the roots are growing and it's
doing everything that you want it to do. But you
definitely don't want it to go into winter on human terms.
You want it to go into winter on hydrangea terms.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
And you know where.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
It's another great point that you made. When you buy
a new plant from the garden center. Honestly, whether it's
summer or spring, summer or fall, they have a time
release fertilizer incorporated in their. Chances are most places will
have been fertilizing with some regularity anyway, So for new plants,
like their nutritional needs are met, you don't really need
(32:19):
to go out on a limb and try to accommodate them.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Being a person who's always picking up plants well into fall,
I can tell you that I've got plenty of those
time release fertilizer granules in the carpet of my car
and in between the seats that I end up vacuuming out.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh yes, well, your car is well nutrition anyway, So
thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
We're going to take a little break.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
When we come back, we're picking up our conversation on
backdrops and fences, so police stay tuned. Thanks for listening
to the Gardening Simplified podcast, brought to you by Proven
Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and
everga means are chiled and tested by experts with your
success in mind. Learn more at Proven winnerscolor Choice dot com.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified show. As we talk
about structure in the garden, you know, structure, shape and form.
It enhances a landscape. It provides year round interest. If
you're one of those people who gets the blues in
winter like me, if you've got some cool structures or
backdrops in the garden, maybe a dying vine from the
(33:30):
previous season that's on the structure, at least it helps
give you some interest during the winter period. A fence
also extends the architecture of a house to the edges
of the property. And I also think that if you
have a tight spot or a tight garden area, if
you use white it can kind of enclose that space.
(33:53):
But when you use dark colors, or a black fence.
It actually makes the space feel larger and it just
feels so much more comfortable to me. And again, I
believe that it makes a great backdrop to the plant material.
So you want you want that situation where you have
a backdrop, but you don't want to feel penned in,
(34:18):
so to speak, which leads me to my hot take.
We're entering the fall season. So you know how much
I love summer, Stacey, But there's one thing about summer
that I do not like, and that is indoor winter.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, indoor winter. That season is finally ending. Why when
you go to movie theaters stores, I don't care where
you go. Go sit in a friend's car they blashed
you with air. Can listen in my car in summertime.
I have a winter coat, a stocking, camp, snow pants, boots,
(34:59):
everything I need to survive indoor winter. Enough with the
over dialed up air conditioning already, I can't take any
more of it. I get physically ill from it.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, it can get pretty chilly in some places, and
you know that's just not very energy efficient.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
If I wanted to visit Vostok Experimental Research Station in Antarctica,
I'll go there, but don't give it to me in
your billing. Now. I understand there are people who have allergies,
and of course you have things like nursing homes and hospitals.
You've got people who are working hard. Maybe it's a
(35:37):
restaurant and they're busy cooking. I understand there. Yeah, But
I'm talking about just for the general person having to
survive indoor winter. That's my hot take today. All right, okay,
all right, where was I? So? I was going to
share a little bit of history. Osage orange thorny young trees.
(35:59):
They were pruned to promote thick, bushy growth, and I
thought this phrase was cool, Stacey. The term horse high,
both strong, and hog tight was used to describe osage
orange and it was readily used in places like Kansas
prior to when barbed wire was invented. And don't ask
(36:21):
me when barbed wire was invented, but somebody invented it
at some point. So that's a plant that has great
history to it. Another one, as long as we're talking
about fences and structures, is black locusts.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yes, very similar.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So I need to go back to osage orange for
a moment because this is such a cool plant. So
this plant will be making the rounds I think in
the coming weeks where it goes viral on social media
with people claiming that the very interesting green brain like
fruits or repel spiders. They do not, but you know,
(36:57):
you'll still see people selling them or claiming it or whatever.
They don't, But that's still not a bad reason to
have them around because they're very cool looking.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It's amazing what you see on the web.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yes, indeed, and the trees themselves are very cool looking.
They have very unique bark, and the reason they were
used as fences is because they are thorny, so it
would help to prevent livestock and that kind of thing
from going in between the fencers. But the coolest thing, okay,
this is not related to it being a backdrop. The
coolest thing about osage orange is that its seeds, those big,
(37:28):
giant brain like oranges which are green, were dispersed by
wooly mammoths, and the osage orange stopped spreading across North
America when the mammoths went extinct because there was no
longer anything that could spread the fruits.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Wow, they're the only ones that would eat the fruit.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
They were the only ones that would eat the fruits.
There's a fascinating article online called the Trees that Miss
the Mammoths. So if you are interested in more information,
that would be a great choice. And black locusts, yeah,
their great choice.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Also very thorny, yes, oh thorny, oh, black locusts. I
tell you, while you're while you were talking about oceae orange,
I was thinking when I was a kid, that's what
we would do all the time. We would get shovel handles,
use them as baseball bats and hit these osage oranges
for hours out in the field. Come home and you'd
(38:24):
be picking the green on, yes, and your clothing that brought.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Back the Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
They have a very strong kind of resinous smell, not
appetizing at all. And you know there you see them
here and there in Michigan. They were never native to Michigan.
They didn't come native this far north, but you do
sometimes I think maybe around old farms and that kind
of thing. See a vestige of an ocege orange fence
here and there.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Awesome. Yeah. Black locusts so fast growing nitrogen fixing tree.
Native to eastern uh North America. It's known for its
deep furrowed bark, And you're right, Stacey, very thorny twigs.
As a matter of fact, it's not a tree that
I would recommend for your landscape. Do not find them
(39:09):
to be attractive. But it is a native tree. As
a matter of fact, I had one in my landscape
at one time. I bought it from American Forests because
it was an offspring of the black locust that Abraham
Lincoln stood next to when he delivered the Gettysburg address.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Well, that's a good reason to grow on at.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Least certificate that said.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
The flowers are great, really fragrant. And when way back
when I was in horticulture school, I know that the
tree crew always had an agreement with the orchid team
because the black locust is very dense wood, really good
for burning, really good for it's really rot resistant. So
the people who took care of the orchid collection at
(39:55):
NYBG would request black locust twigs for mounting orchids on
because as they would hold up better to the humidity
in the landscape.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
So it's interesting, and I'm glad you brought that up,
because that's where I was going with this. There are
many people who believe locust poles are more durable as
fencing post fence material or if you're putting up a structure.
I have a picture on YouTube of a playground going
in with locust poles. You're right, Stacey. They are so
(40:23):
dense and so durable that many people favor them to
womanized or treated lumber.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Sure, if you can find them. I've never seen them,
but I've never looked for them, but out there they
are a very cool plant. And you know you mentioned
the bark. It's one of those types of barks you
can get to know an idea tree because it's so distinctive.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You bet. As far as backdrop plants are concerned, of course,
we all have our favorites, but I've developed a new favorite, Stacy. Now.
It used to be joe pie weed or tall helianthus
that I would put in the background. Of course, I
love of cannas and pillar rows of sharon and viburnum,
all great backdrop plants. But I have really become a
(41:09):
big fan of calicanthus ooh yest because it grows so fast,
the foliage is so green and glossy, and let's say
I have it next to a structure, that foliage just
jumps out, not to speak of the amazing, interesting flowers
that are on the plant, But I recommend that as
(41:31):
a structural backdrop.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
That's a great choice because it is also very dense.
It has got a lot of foliage on it, so
it really creates that kind of lush, dense backdrop that's
so good for setting off other plants as well as
its own flowers. I love watching the I love the
way that the flowers and foliage complement each other on
that plant.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So take a look at composition, take a look at
fencing material. You may think, hey, I just want to
grow plants, but you have issues. You have deer or
rabbits to control. You don't want the fence to be
gaudy or to distract from the plant material or the
landscape that you have. And then in other situations, like
I said in our first segment, using these galvanized steel
(42:17):
panels or various types of wood, or these different types
of mesh to create fencing where you either create a
situation where you can see through it and it dissolves
into the landscape, or it creates a backdrop to be
able to plant some really colorful plants. I'm really getting
into that and structure within the landscape. As a matter
(42:38):
of fact, Adriana put together a wonderful video of your garden.
Yeah and my garden, and we have that out on YouTube.
And now that that video is out there, I've begun
my work on my pergola. Ooh, there you go, Stacey.
There's for the posts, one of the posts right there.
And interestingly enough, again online you can buy the components,
(43:02):
not the wood, but just the components to put together
your own para live.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
You know, I like this attitude that you have because,
as someone who got fencing quotes, fencing is expensive. So
if you want to save some money and do something
that's more creative and unique to you, it definitely pays
to think a little bit outside the box there.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
That's exactly it. Don't be left defenseless. Well this was fun,
it was yeah. Thank you Stacy, thank you Rick, thanks Adriana,
and thanks to you for watching us on YouTube, listening
to our podcast or our radio version of the show.
Have yourself a great week.
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