August 30, 2025 • 43 mins
Summer is winding down, cool mornings are rolling in, and now is the time to dream and scheme plans for your garden. Rick and Stacey discuss design ideas, garden tasks, and ways to prepare for your fall to-do list. Feature shrub: Kodiak Red 2.0 diervilla.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Broadcasting from Historic Studio a here at Proven Winters, Color
Joy Shrubs. It's The Gardening Simplified Show with Stacey Hervella, me,
Rick Weist, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Okay,
now the fun begins. Cooler temperatures, a little more precipitation
(00:23):
as we head into fall. I was reading the other
day the optimum temperature for human beings, they say is
between twenty and twenty five degrees celsius about sixty eight
to seventy seven degrees fahrenheit. We get a lot of
that kind of weather in fall, perfect for plants and people.
(00:44):
I get very nostalgic in fall. I think it's because
I love summer so much. As a matter of fact,
for our YouTube viewers got a picture of a cold
front coming in near my house by the lighthouse just
a couple days ago. Stay, see, all of a sudden,
the temperatures feel cooler. It feels like fall is in
(01:06):
the air.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
And you know, the crazy thing to me is that
even though the temperatures are feeling a little bit cooler,
the light has changed, yes, so much, the light in
the sky, it's just so different. And you can just
even if it's you know, eighty degrees out there. It
still feels like it is here even though well technically
I suppose meteorological fall starts tomorrow, but astronomical fall, we
(01:32):
still got three more weeks of summer, so take your
whatever you prefer. Astronomical fall well, and I hear pumpkin
spice season is back as well, so that is another
sure sign of fall. If you're not paying attention to
the temperature.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It doesn't get any bigger than this. Your landscape that is.
So it's that time of the year when it's a
good time to get out there, take a look at
your landscape and decide on changes that you want to make.
Make some notes. You know, it can be difficult moving
a plant or putting a new plant in the ground,
but making lists is really easy and you can prioritize
(02:09):
based on your budget, your time, your energy later on.
So this is the time of year, and that's why
I say it's a fun time of the year. For me,
I consider myself plant to clause, I'm making a list,
checking it twice and for me here in Michigan, I'll
be different for everybody else, but for me, I like
(02:31):
to do that planning in late August early to mid September,
and then from mid September to Thanksgiving Day take action,
cutting stuff back, moving stuff, putting bargains in the ground.
I just love it. It's so much fun, and a
great way to do that is through bubble drawings, just
(02:52):
sketches on a legal pad. As a matter of fact,
I was out there the other day with my legal
pad just sketching some stuff. Upt some pictures for you
here on YouTube, just rough sketches. You can take your
phone take pictures too, And I think the key is
not to worry about the actual plants or shapes yet
(03:15):
that are going to go into the landscape. But it's
a time for spatial planning, and that type of planning
is fun. As a matter of fact, if I was
a young man again, not an old retired man, but
a young man again, I would go to school to
either become a meteorologist or a spatial designer, because I
(03:38):
think that's the coolest job in the world, where you
look at an environment and you try to make it
friendly to people and really make great use of the space.
So as opposed to landscape design, stacy spatial design. At
this time of the year, I find it a kick
in the plants.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I have to say, I think this may go back
to your garden center days.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes it does. It's a dreaming and scheming time of
the year.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah for sure. And you know, we talked about this
a bit in the last couple shows. But what to
me is so exciting about this particular time is that
you're seeing how things actually behave. And I've talked about
this before, but like when spring comes, you know, everything's little,
and you know, even if you made a note to yourself,
(04:30):
like reduce your amount of Sylphium stacy please, by the
time spring comes, you're just like, oh, everything's so fresh
and green, and you know, you forget the further you
get away from the peak of the season. Correct, the
more you forget about you know, what actually happens come August,
and then you don't trust yourself and you don't want
(04:50):
to do it because you're just like, it looks so pretty,
I don't want to do it. Whereas if you do
it in fall, you know, no problems, right, and then
you remember and you act on infra amasi rather than
questioning your summer self. And that's what I found is
I was like, I should have trusted Summer Stacy. She
knew what was up right Spring Stacy, she didn't remember
(05:11):
what Summer Stacy knew.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And now's the time exactly. And you know, for me,
half the fun of doing something is anticipation. If you're
going to go on a vacation, or you're you're dreaming
and scheming about this beautiful patio area or whatever, half
the fun is anticipation. And that is supported by stuff
(05:37):
that I read from psychologists who say the same thing,
that it's the anticipation that that is the fun. But
we're either moving forward or backwards. Nothing ever stays the same.
And rearranging and moving plants in your landscape is easy
on paper and in your mind not so easy. But
(06:00):
now's the time to be doing that, because come October
I will be all business. So the time is now.
The lesson is learned. I think about Jimmy Buffett. I
love Jimmy Buffett's music, and he's got this song where
he buys a watch from a guy floating down the canal.
He says, it doesn't use numbers or moving hands. It
(06:23):
always just says now. Now you may be thinking that
I was had, but this watch is never wrong. And
if I had trouble, the warranty said, breathe in, breathe out,
move on. This is a great time of the year
to breathe in, breathe out, and move on.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Move on from your mistakes, or move on to correct
your mistakes. I'm wondering, okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Anticipation, Well, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I think a big part of that, though, is is
identifying what needs to be done. And I think for
a lot of people, myself included, you know, you're looking
at your garden and maybe something is like flopping or
taking over management isn't working for you. It's it is
a habit to develop to acknowledge, to recognize those things
(07:08):
and translate that into action rather than just go, oh,
you know, I really wish I hadn't planted that. Okay, well,
now's the time to remedy that. So you do need
to take that opportunity to kind of reconcile your thoughts
about what's happening in the gardener landscape with taking action,
because now really is one of the best times to
take action. And you know, every year people we answer
(07:29):
questions about lawns, we answer questions about dividing, and we
always say fall well, now it's fall.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, now's the time. Like Jimmy Buffett said, And I
was reading an article in psychology today and it was
talking about the fact that moving your furniture around can
actually make you feel better. And so I would ask
the question, how often does the typical person rearrange furniture
in their house, aside from the deep cleaning that you're
(07:58):
going to get, you feel better about the space, maybe
unclutter the room. And so they were recommending to move
furniture around often. Again something that's much easier as an
idea than to physically do. But again, it's all about
(08:19):
spatial design. And this is the time of year, like
Stacey said, you know, you've maybe some of those plants
are really crowding each other out, or maybe there's a
plant that needs to get the boot.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can and
you can give it to a friend and you don't
have to feel bad. They're going to be excited.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, you've lived in your
landscape all summer. Now we head towards fall. Good time
to take a look at spatial design. So functional, immersive,
just relevant type human environment for you to be able
to enjoy your landscape. So spatial design is a conception,
(09:00):
victual discipline that prioritize both style and function. So we're
looking at spaces, we're looking at rooms, we're looking at
concept drawings. You don't have to be an artist, you
don't have to be an architect or a designer. If
you have a legal pad and a pen, you can
(09:20):
do it. And the best place to start with a
plan is a bubble diagram. You can organize your spaces
without a lot of detail, without a lot of drawing investment.
I guess it's stacy just a functional diagram.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It is, and it's easy to do. Yeah, you don't
need any special kind of you know, skills to be
able to do it. It's just a way of thinking
about the space in your yard on paper rather than
in person.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And we'll talk more about this in segment four. Let
me give you a limb a rick to get this going.
Take pride in your landscape creation and plan changes with notation.
While busy and making progress, we all would have to
confesss half the funds, the anticipation. Would your space be
(10:07):
a creative pioneer? Your vantage point Belvedere this past year
has been great, but can't help contemplate what would it
be like next year?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Oh? Love that so true?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Wait till next year. Let's see how Stacey ties this
in with plants on trial here on the Gardening Simplified.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
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(10:49):
Proven Winners Color Choice dot Com. Goore Reading's gardening friends,
and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the
order of the day is now the fun begins referring
to our opportunities to improve our gardens in fall. And
at the end of the previous segment, you used in
your limerick a word belvidere. Yes, do you know what
(11:12):
that means?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes? A belvidere would be like isn't it a vantage point?
A position that you have kind of a I don't know,
a little building or whatever where you sit there and
you can view over an area.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Well, so it literally means an Italian beautiful view there
you go Belvedere. So yes, a Belvidere would be a
small place to take in a beautiful view. But the
literal meaning is beautiful view.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I stuck it in there because it rhymed.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
All right, Well that's a rare opportunity if you can
rhyme with Belvidere. You're welcome here.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Oh very good, Stacy. You're hot today, Yes I am.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And speaking of being hot, I'm kicking off plants on
trial with another one of my horticultural hot takes.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Here, it comes here.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It comes. Burning bush is a boring plant and you
shouldn't plan it controversy, and if you have one, now
would be a great time to remove it now, Okay,
hear me out.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Send your cards, letters, emails care of Stacey her Vella.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yes, exactly, what's next?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Daies and marigolds.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Now that's different. That's different because day lilies are a
not invasive and burning bush is very invasive. And b
dailies are you know, they're just like a little thing.
They're not They don't take up a lot of space.
But hear me out.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
If you I agree with you, I'm not disagreeing at all.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I agree with.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Your hot take.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, good I'm glad, and I think Adriana agrees with
this hot take as well. But if you do not,
if you're sitting there aghast and clutching your pearls, please
do hear me out. It's a horticultural one trick pony,
you know, Like all it does is have fall color,
and that's cool, and it is, I will admit, pretty
(13:03):
great fall color, but like a ton of stuff has
really really great fall color. And you know, for me,
maybe it's part of having a smaller space to work in.
But I'm not looking for a one trick pony, and
I certainly don't want a one trick pony that is
also invasive to boot. So it doesn't have particularly attractive
(13:24):
or interesting flowers. In fact, most people probably think that
burning bush doesn't even bloom because the little green flowers
are not particularly showy and they turn into fruits, which
can be kind of interesting. And if you look up
burning bush fruits on the internet, you'll be like, oh,
actually those are kind of great, but in real life
they don't actually look as spectacular as they do or
(13:45):
not is interesting And if the fruit is what interests
you about burning bush, there are some fabulous native uantamis
that get even better fruits, So consider those. But I
don't think most people are growing burning bush for the fruit.
It's a big plant, you know, it's it's pretty big,
and you know, all of that together is not deer resistant,
(14:06):
it's not not drought tolerant.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It's rabbit food.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It's rabbit food and deer food, and yeah, and it's invasive,
and in some places it's extremely invasive. Over here, not
too bad because of our dry soil, but you know,
certainly anywhere on the East Coast, you can't hike into
a woods without finding burning bush popping up everywhere, and
that's pretty depressing. So one trick Pony has. All it
really does is have full color. And even though it
(14:32):
is good fall color, like everything else also has really
good fall color at that time. To me, the most
interesting thing about burning bush is the winged bark.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yes they call it.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yes, such a great name, because the bark does grow
these kind of quirky wings on it, and that's kind
of cool. But all told, I mean, come on, let's
just face it. We can do better than burning bush.
And so this fall, as we sit around thinking about
the changes that we're going to make and our garden.
If you have a burning bush, I think it would
(15:03):
be a good time to consider replacing it, and I
have a replacement suggestion for you. It is today's plant
on trial and it is Kodiak red two point zero
darvilla perfect perfect love the pot. So if you're not
familiar with darvilla, it is a North American native shrub.
You can certainly see it abundantly here in Michigan, especially
(15:25):
as you go a little bit further up north. But
it grows all over basically the entire US east of
the Mississippi. And as you might be able to guess
by the name Kodiak red, it has red fall color.
Now I will admit it is not going to be
quite as vivid as that of a burning bush. But again,
(15:45):
hear me out, I think that what it gives you
in exchange more than makes up for that difference in
color because it is native Okay, so not invasive compared
to the burning bush. In the summer, it has great
yellow flowers to yellow flowers all season long that attracts
native bumblebees and other pollinators. During the season. The foliage
(16:06):
is much more interesting because it comes out and emerges
in colors of tones of red, so you have that
red color on the foliage throughout the season as the
plant is growing, rather than just waiting for it to,
you know, do something finally in the fun.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
These and pollinators all over mine in summer.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, it is also very easy to grow, and you
can trim it and prune it and shape it if
you want to do that. And then yeah, of course
it lights up in fall. It is not super deer resistant,
but it is certainly more deer resistant than a burning bush.
Now I've grown it in my yard, darvilla. They will
(16:46):
typically munch it a little bit in spring, so kind
of in that timeframe when they're hungry they've exhausted all
the food out in the woods and the darvilla is
starting to emerge and it's got that nice, tender, soft growth.
They're like, hey, yeah, I'll settle for this. But you know,
ultimately they don't damage it very much, and it doesn't
impact the flower because it flowers on new woods. So
(17:08):
even if they do eat it a little bit in
the spring, you're still going to get the flowers. It's
not really going to impact the overall, you know, esthetics
of the plant.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I agree, and i'd add to your list, Stacy that
when it turns color, the foliage remains on far longer
than the foliage holds on a.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Burning Oh yeah, that's a great point. I didn't even
think about that, but you're right, Like burning bush lights
up and then it's like, no, I'm out.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
You know, days later, Yeah, the buildings.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And the foliage is dropping in color, which can look
kind of cool to have that kind of carpet of
red leaves underneath the plant. I mean, I'm trying to
be generous. I guess I know people love this plant,
and it truly mystifies me why burning bush is so
popular when it does so little in the landscape. And
not only that, but something that people might not know
from a nursery industry production standpoint. It's not an easy
(18:01):
plant to grow. It's slow growing, it doesn't like the
nursery environment. Yet somehow it has become a commodity that
they're able to offer super cheap. I don't know how.
I don't know how this happened.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
At garden centers. When it turns color, you can sell
them like hotcakes, so I guess that's it.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And but you sell them in the other part of
the season because people are like, I want a burning
bush because they remember, you know, it's like and maybe
it's it's a snappy name, easy to remember, burning bush,
and that might be kind of fun. But Kodiak Red
two point oh makes a much better alternative. And we
do have two point zero in the name because it
is an improvement on our original Kodiak Red Durvilla. So
(18:42):
we have been selecting and actually when we selected Kodiak Red,
it was specifically to serve as an alternate alternative to
burning bush in areas where burning bush is banned because
of its invasiveness. So a lot of that same kind
of color, but without all of those liabilities. So the
fall color on Kodiak Red two point is way better
even than the original Kodiak Red, So this makes a
(19:05):
great choice for replacing the burning bush in your landscape.
It's also heartier, so most burning bush you're gonna see
some squishiness between these numbers, but most burning bush is
hardy zones four through eight and typically does get winter
damage in zone four and sometimes in zone five as well,
whereas the Kodiak or Villa hardy all the way down
(19:27):
to USDA Zone three and heat tlernant up to zone eight,
so you have a much wider range where you can
grow this as well. So I mean, I think this
thing is win win win. But again, I know people
do love their burning bush, so I do want to
also mention, if I have not convinced you to switch
over to the dervilla side, that we do have a seedless,
(19:48):
non invasive burning bush fireball seedless, just because we know
that we can't convince people to stop planting burning bush
for whatever reason. So if you do love your burning
bush and you're sitting there shaking your head and saying,
I'm never going to listen to the Gardening Simplified Show again,
Stacy and our hot takes are just making me too angry.
I still have an option for you, fireball seedless, sterile,
(20:10):
non invasive. It will be on the market next year
in twenty twenty six in Garden Center. So that makes
a much better alternative than regular burning bush. Although again
I'm recommending today's plant on trial Kodiak Red two point zero.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Wow, all this controversy burning bush, green.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Flowers, green flowers, and we didn't even bring it up
in our green Flowers show last week. But anyway, there's
my two cents, I hope that you will consider adding
Kodiak Red two point oh to your landscape, whether you
need to replace a burning bush or you're just looking
for some snazzy color in the landscape or a native
shrub that's also really colorful and interesting. So we're going
(20:52):
to take a little break. When we come back, we're
opening up the garden mail bank, so please stay tanned.
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(21:15):
what's already on the market. For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs
to accentuate your home and express your personal style, look
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your local garden center or learn more at proven Winner's
Color Choice dot com. Reading's gardening friends, and welcome back
to the Gardening Simplified Show, where I promise you I'm
(21:38):
done with my horticultural hot takes. If you are still here,
thank you for listening through that. I don't think I
have any more for today, but.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I look forward to future weeks.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I should do a whole segment of hot Time.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh hi. If there's plenty more where that came from.
Believe me, Adrian and I were starting to brainstorm a
few today so we could make this a regular thing.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Now I've got some hot okay, and I'll.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Bet our listeners do as well. So if you want
to leave a comment on YouTube as to what your
horticultural hot take is, we would love to hear it. Anyway,
before we get to the mail bag where we answer
your questions about what is going on in your garden
right now or in the future. I did want to
mention that we have a brand new video on YouTube
(22:26):
and it is a tour of my garden and of
Rix Garden, something that people have been asking for for
some time and we finally got it for you. Just
a peek at some of what's going on and not
what we're going to be doing as now the fun begins,
but what we've been seeing over the past couple of weeks.
It's a good update on my garden after all of
(22:47):
the craziness that we did last year and the first
look at Rix Garden. If there's been pictures you know
in other episodes of the show, but no one's really
seen like your whole garden.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, working my way up the back dune, I would
say I'm about fifty percent on and practicing what I
preach as far as you know. Now the fun begins
because this fall and into winter, I have an east
garden planned. I'm expanding the deer compound film wow, and
(23:17):
building that pergola this winter.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So I thought that one of the funniest things about
the video. After I watched my part and then I
watched your vegetable garden, I was like, Wow, Rick really
adheres to proper spacing, and my vegetable garden is not.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Probably thought you were going to comment on the day lilies.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
That was funny. I think a lot of our listeners
are you know, longtime listeners will know that of my
dislike for daylilies and the fact that I think that
they resemble cloth diapers. So Rick made a point of
that radio and he made sure that I saw his
collection of day lilies there in the garden. So we're
(24:00):
going to start answering your gardening questions. We have some
really good ones that I think are very timely and
if you want to reach us with your gardening question,
you can leave a comment on YouTube or go to
Gardening Simplified on air dot com and click the contact tab.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
What do we got, Jennifer writes with some spacing questions.
I'm planting two blue chiffon rows of Sharon's at work,
and I want them planted as close to the back
edge as possible. How much space should they have away
from the edge. Why don't we start there?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Okay, So the simple equation here for spacing is you
look at the range of width that a plant has,
and so in the case of blue chiffon rose of Sharon,
I believe that's six feet. You divide that in half,
and then you're going to place the center that distance
from the whatever obstacle, whatever line or obstacle, structure, whatever
(24:54):
you're trying to work with. So, if you are trying
to go as close as possible to the back edge,
like Jennifer is, I would go with a three foot
If you're trying to give yourself plenty of room, like
you need to walk by or something like that, then
you're going to want to go on the longer edge
of that. But overall, it's right there in the width,
they just divide it by half, measure it out, and
(25:15):
then you place that center right on that point.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Makes sense. Jennifer also says, I'm planting pufferfish hydranges, love
those minor and full bloom in my landscape right now,
and I didn't want to space everything further mature size
just yet, because then I'm gonna have a huge, big
empty space for a long time. Is it bad to
move them as they get bigger and just bump out
(25:40):
my flower bed as they grow? I have a hedge
of boxwoods in front of them. They're gonna have to
get bumped out. Also, is it bad to wait? Should
I just bite the bullet make the flower bed the
size that I plan it to be five years from now? Boy,
that's a great question, And Jennifer's really thinking here, and
I you know, I would again say what we said
(26:02):
in the first segment. The fun begins right now, So
you know, I would say do it as you go,
as opposed to putting them in at the five year
distance and sitting there with all that extra space. But
that's just me.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, you know, I Jennifer's question, in the way that
she phrased this really made me realize that my quote
life is too short for proper spacing does come from
this exact phenomenon where you know, you put in a
new plan, and even if you get a larger plant
like a three gallon or something, if it is a
bigger plant like a puffer fish hydrangea, it's just going
(26:43):
to get to beat about five feet tall and wide.
You are waiting some time for that to fill in,
and you do have a lot of exposed ground. So
I get that, but I would recommend personally not moving it.
I would plan for the five year spacing. And the
reason for that well, first of all, well, if you
have clay soil, trying to move things as easier said
than done, much less of an issue for you and
(27:05):
I out here Rick with our nice sandy soils. But
it does as much as Reck and I move plants
around and don't have an issue with it, it does
set the plant back some when you move it, and
you know, depending on a lot of other factors, it
can set it back quite a bit. So you don't
necessarily want to lose that momentum. So kind of what
do you do if I don't think that the only
(27:27):
two options are you know, have to move the plant
or look at big empty space for five years. So
I have a couple of suggestions for you, Jennifer. You
could do annimals in between them.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I think that that is smart. As a matter of fact,
I take back what I originally said, because I love
to have that fun every fault. You're right, why not
do that?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, so you can put annuals makes perfect sense of
all sorts in there. Just sow. Some zinias do something
to take up that space. Short lived perennials also work well,
so you know, usually there are a number of beloved
perennials that are just naturally rather short lived. So just
a couple off the top of my head. Gilardia scabiosa,
which is also known as pincushion flower, Lupin's beautiful plant,
(28:12):
but not the longest live. They do typically self sow,
so you don't have nothing, but the plant that you
bought does disappear. And so those are a good choice too,
because you'll be able to enjoy them in the space
and then they'll just naturally kind of die out or
you know, maybe start self sewing in some cases and
you won't have to worry about it, or you know,
if you have other plants that are inexpensive, like day lilies,
(28:34):
just plant them and then as they end up getting
shaded out by your shrubs growing, just let them expire,
you know, just let him go.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I think that's smart. Many vista supertunias and using them
as a groundcover filler. Fabulous.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's a great choice. Yeah, I mean that is in
you know, as much as people love the vistas supertunias
because they're so vigorous, sometimes are too vigorous for a basket.
So you let it grow all over your ground. You're
gonna have a fab carpet. You can also do containers
with some tropicals, so you could just place containers in
those areas until that fills in. So I don't think
(29:09):
it's in either or situation. I think you have lots
of options, but I would do your long term planning now,
save yourself the work and the setback on the plants.
Leader love it.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Ryan asks, Good day, fellow gardeners. I have a question
regarding dividing perennials in a cold zone three Canadian garden. Wow.
I usually divide and transplant my perennials in spring, and
I'm looking at switching it to fall, so my spring
seems less busy as we have a short, crazy spring season.
(29:40):
Will my plants be less likely to come through our
cold winters if I were to do this, as low
snow cover in the first part of winter can be
unpredictable and our cold winters can be extreme. I love
this question. Yeah, and you and I may have two
different answers here, because I'm going to say to Ryan,
go for it. I divide and move pretty much all
(30:04):
of my perennials in fall, and I think as long
as you mulch them in so they don't heave out
of the ground, you're going to be just fine with
the cold weather. So Stacey, I'm recommending Ryan goes for it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I agree. I you know, either way works, but I
was so satisfied with my results that I had from
transplanting a bunch of stuff last fall. Now, it is
true that Reck and I do live in a bit
of a more mild climate than it sounds like you do, Ryan,
But I think for the most part, especially herbaceous perennials,
there are very few that come to mind for me.
(30:40):
And I'm speaking specifically about herbaceous perennials, not like kind
of tender semi woody perennials like butterfly bush, lavender and
carriopterus not that kind of stuff, But any herbaceous perennial
it should be just fine. The only exception to be
any perennials that typically get winter damage in your area,
which I can't imagine you'd be growing many of those anyway.
(31:03):
Maybe you are, and then you can always just try,
you know, if you have multiple plants, try some and
leave others. But I am I am definitely team fall
transplanting and dividing. I agree, And you know, I think
that even with low snow cover, as long as your
perennials are hardy and reliable in your area, you really
have nothing to worry about. In mulch, of course always
(31:25):
a good idea, yeah, because if.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You have a freeze thaw cycle, they could heave out
of the ground, so you take care of that with mulch.
And I think the important thing for people to remember
is even if the air temperature is getting cold, you'd
be surprised how warm the soil stays well into December.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, and that means more root growth, and that means
your plants are much happier in spring rather than having
to recover from the transplanting. So yep, go for it, Ryan,
save that spring energy for other garden tasks. We're going
to take a little break. When we come back, we'll
be continuing our conversation about how the fun begins now
in full, so please stay tuned. Thanks for listening to
(32:11):
the Gardening Simplified Podcast, brought to you by Proven Winners
Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens
are trialed and tested by experts with your success in mind.
Learn more at Proven Winners color Choice dot com.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show today, as we
talk about how the fun begins, it's a great time
of the year to do some planning, some dreaming, some
scheming for your landscape and your garden. Maybe you've had
a few disappointments this year. We're reminded often that gardeners
like to sit back and say, wait till next year.
(32:49):
I love the author and historian Doris Kerns Goodwin. She's
written some wonderful books, including one called Wait Till Next Year.
Her childhood and how she loved the Brooklyn Dodgers in
the nineteen forties. Nineteen fifties, and that was their mantra,
wait till next year, because they'd make it to the
(33:11):
World Series, and every year the Yankees would knock them
out until nineteen fifty five when the Brooklyn Dodgers finally
broke through and won the World Series in that year,
and then, of course two years later they pull up
stakes and move to Los Angeles. But she's a wonderful
author and historian, and I think often of wait till
(33:33):
next year, And that's what we do in our landscapes.
And so it's the perfect time of the year, as
everything is full grown, to get out there and do
a little bit of spatial design. Now, once the spatial
design is finalized, it's later that you can work in
the hard scape and the landscape elements. One of the
(33:54):
things to do with your bubble drawings or thinking about
spatial design in your living space is to think about
how spaces connect to each other. And I'm not always
good about that. Things will get overgrown and then I
can't get from point A to point B. It's difficult.
(34:14):
You want it to be friendly and fun to get
to the various different let's call them bubbles in your landscape.
So that's something to look at as far as spatial
design is concerned, which brings me to an important point
that I want to make Stacy, and that is when
you do this and you do spatial design in your landscape,
(34:36):
it is important to look at the negative space. And
negative space is very important not only in a photograph
how it's composed, but also within a landscape. It's an
area where we rest, where it's not as busy. So
(34:57):
obviously the number on one negative space area within a
landscape would arguably be turf a lawn, air.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Paths too, right, I hope path count Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So turf paths gravel provided the gravel is clearly defined
with steel edging or aluminum edging. But those negative spaces
are very important to think about. You need that, your
landscape needs that for some rest otherwise it gets too busy. Also,
(35:32):
does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It does make sense. Yeah, And I I don't really
have any negative space in my garden right now except
for paths.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I have that struggled, but I think a pady.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I have a couple patios and that's kind of like
a negative space. But it is so important to kind
of design those different areas and and link them and
I do want to say, just for the benefit of
those out there who have smaller yards, of the best
ways that you can make. There's two things you can
do to make your garden seem bigger. One is obscure
(36:05):
the edges so no one can really see how where
it actually ends. So if you have some big plants
that kind of obscure it. And if possible, make winding
curving paths, because that will slow you down as you
move through into those different spaces. You know, a straight
line is obviously the shortest distance between two points, so
(36:27):
if you mess with that and you kind of put
in some curves, you can even make it. You know,
a garden does not need to be efficient, and you
may find that your garden is much more fun to
be in if it's not just a bunch of straight lines.
And I say this as someone whose paths are largely
a bunch of straight lines. But you know, you don't
(36:48):
have to make everything efficient. It is about being in
the space. So you know, wind those around, make them
double back on themselves, just to have more opportunity to
spend in that path.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, so think about that negative space. And again you know,
for me it I don't necessarily do. I try to.
I try to look for negative space in a composition.
But my problem is, Oh I like that plan, Oh
I want that plan. Oh I need that. Oh I'm
you know, I can't go to a garden center without
(37:21):
walking out with two or three plants, and quickly you
lose that to that negative space. So think about that.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That's what falls for right, That's when you start looking
at all of that there. I couldn't leave the garden
center without it moments, and you can then have some
objective perspective on it and say, oh, you know, I
need to thin this out. I'm going to move things around.
It's important to just always have that kind of you know,
critical eye as to optimizing your space.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, no, that's right. And you know, looking at various
designs out and about, or looking on Pinterest or whatever
it may be to get some ideas. But I let
me give you a hot take controversial.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
You're right, I love it.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Interior design is generally pretty universal. Exterior design and a
landscape is not. I think an exterior design more so
reflects our personality or the chaos than an interior because
with an interior design, you have the trim, you have
(38:30):
the wall color, you have, you know, the things that
you add to the room. And there are some people
who are very good at it, and I respect people
who can do that. But a lot of the concepts
within interior design, I think are somewhat universal, whereas outside
it's almost like anything goes well.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
You know, you're absolutely right, because of course an interior design,
if something is a living room, it needs to have
chairs for sitting. If something is a dining room, it
needs to have a table for dining, whereas outside it
can be anything. And I think that that is part
of why people don't take full advantage of it, because
they don't have that those parameters to help them decide
what they're going to do. It's a quote that I've
(39:12):
said before on the show. The enemy of art is
the absence of limitations. In our house, we're limited by
what role the different rooms in our homes fill, whereas
outside we have no such limitations necessarily, So we have
to impose them on ourselves and then be creative within
the limitations that we decide to impose on our landscapes.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, you have to look at the environment. I guess
you know. What I'm trying to say is if you
see a really cool landscape in France or Hawaii, it
may not necessarily thrive in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Right, the concept can translate, but the.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Concept can translate. So this is this is fun stuff
to take.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
You have a vacation plan, You're like throwing out all
these crazy locations.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
This is a fun time of the year. I don't know,
I don't know what I got in this mug here today,
but you know, and when you think about that too, again,
I talked about universal design. Think about some plants as denim.
Anything goes great with denim. You can wear a dress shirt,
you can wear a T shirt, whatever it may be.
Everything goes great with denim. So the kind of denim
(40:17):
plants I'm thinking about for a landscape are arbor, vite
or boxwood. Does that translate? Does that make any sense?
They're kind of denim plants.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
They they're the workaday, you know, they're still useful and great.
Classic denim is also classic. But yeah, they go with everything.
So if you don't know what to do, you know,
you plant a boxwood. It pretty much always works.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yeah. Now, of course this time of the year also
you can do something that is one of my favorite
and most fun things to do.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Stealing leaves from your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, that's part of it. That's part of it that
comes a little later. Leaves aren't going to start falling
off the trees until mid October. But around that time
we don't get newspaper anymore. We don't get newspapers delivered
to our homes anymore. And I used to always use
newspaper to smother grass areas. I'd put down the newspaper,
(41:13):
then some of the leaves coming off the trees, and
then some soil on top of the leaves. Let it
cook all winter long. In the following spring, you got
a really cool planting bed. And I'm just saying to
do some dreaming and scheming this time of the year.
You can take some turf areas that you want to
convert to flower beds, maybe use cardboard in lieu of
(41:34):
newspaper and do some of that that smothering. Maybe you
can do some dreaming and scheming by grabbing a garden
hose and snaking it around in the landscape and creating
a bed shape that looks great to you. But we're
coming up on a time of year when when that's
an opportunity too, and next spring, you'll be glad that
(41:55):
you did.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
It, you know. And that's also a great way to
use some those odds and ends Kansas you might have
in your basement, take those and use them to mark
out the bedlines. That's what we do here all the
time at the nursery.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
So it's just fun. I mean, I you know, I
can't wait to hook up my trailer and drive around
the neighborhood and pick up leaves and and get into this.
It's such a fun time. Even though I love summer,
this is just a fun time of the year.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
If you can't tell this was Rick's idea for this
topic is hype.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
As a matter of fact, let's call it. We're gonna
call the show here because I'm going to get to work.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yeah, he's gonna no time, no time to lose fun.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
I did want to share a word of the day,
by the way that I maybe for the future we
can talk about this echo musicology. Echo musicology it's an
area of study that explores the relationships between music or
sound and the natural environment.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I thought that, you know, because I have my ornamental
grasses that are dancing in the breeze at this time
of the year, I was thinking about echo musicology.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
I like it. I've never heard that word before.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I need to dig in a little deeper on that, Stacy,
It's been fun.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Thank you, sure has.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Thanks Rick, Thanks Adriana, and thanks most of all to
you for watching us on YouTube, for listening to the
radio show version, or looking for our podcast wherever you
download your favorite podcast. Have a great week.
Broadcasting from Historic Studio a here at Proven Winters, Color
Joy Shrubs. It's The Gardening Simplified Show with Stacey Hervella, me,
Rick Weist, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Okay,
now the fun begins. Cooler temperatures, a little more precipitation
(00:23):
as we head into fall. I was reading the other
day the optimum temperature for human beings, they say is
between twenty and twenty five degrees celsius about sixty eight
to seventy seven degrees fahrenheit. We get a lot of
that kind of weather in fall, perfect for plants and people.
(00:44):
I get very nostalgic in fall. I think it's because
I love summer so much. As a matter of fact,
for our YouTube viewers got a picture of a cold
front coming in near my house by the lighthouse just
a couple days ago. Stay, see, all of a sudden,
the temperatures feel cooler. It feels like fall is in
(01:06):
the air.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
And you know, the crazy thing to me is that
even though the temperatures are feeling a little bit cooler,
the light has changed, yes, so much, the light in
the sky, it's just so different. And you can just
even if it's you know, eighty degrees out there. It
still feels like it is here even though well technically
I suppose meteorological fall starts tomorrow, but astronomical fall, we
(01:32):
still got three more weeks of summer, so take your
whatever you prefer. Astronomical fall well, and I hear pumpkin
spice season is back as well, so that is another
sure sign of fall. If you're not paying attention to
the temperature.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It doesn't get any bigger than this. Your landscape that is.
So it's that time of the year when it's a
good time to get out there, take a look at
your landscape and decide on changes that you want to make.
Make some notes. You know, it can be difficult moving
a plant or putting a new plant in the ground,
but making lists is really easy and you can prioritize
(02:09):
based on your budget, your time, your energy later on.
So this is the time of year, and that's why
I say it's a fun time of the year. For me,
I consider myself plant to clause, I'm making a list,
checking it twice and for me here in Michigan, I'll
be different for everybody else, but for me, I like
(02:31):
to do that planning in late August early to mid September,
and then from mid September to Thanksgiving Day take action,
cutting stuff back, moving stuff, putting bargains in the ground.
I just love it. It's so much fun, and a
great way to do that is through bubble drawings, just
(02:52):
sketches on a legal pad. As a matter of fact,
I was out there the other day with my legal
pad just sketching some stuff. Upt some pictures for you
here on YouTube, just rough sketches. You can take your
phone take pictures too, And I think the key is
not to worry about the actual plants or shapes yet
(03:15):
that are going to go into the landscape. But it's
a time for spatial planning, and that type of planning
is fun. As a matter of fact, if I was
a young man again, not an old retired man, but
a young man again, I would go to school to
either become a meteorologist or a spatial designer, because I
(03:38):
think that's the coolest job in the world, where you
look at an environment and you try to make it
friendly to people and really make great use of the space.
So as opposed to landscape design, stacy spatial design. At
this time of the year, I find it a kick
in the plants.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I have to say, I think this may go back
to your garden center days.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes it does. It's a dreaming and scheming time of
the year.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah for sure. And you know, we talked about this
a bit in the last couple shows. But what to
me is so exciting about this particular time is that
you're seeing how things actually behave. And I've talked about
this before, but like when spring comes, you know, everything's little,
and you know, even if you made a note to yourself,
(04:30):
like reduce your amount of Sylphium stacy please, by the
time spring comes, you're just like, oh, everything's so fresh
and green, and you know, you forget the further you
get away from the peak of the season. Correct, the
more you forget about you know, what actually happens come August,
and then you don't trust yourself and you don't want
(04:50):
to do it because you're just like, it looks so pretty,
I don't want to do it. Whereas if you do
it in fall, you know, no problems, right, and then
you remember and you act on infra amasi rather than
questioning your summer self. And that's what I found is
I was like, I should have trusted Summer Stacy. She
knew what was up right Spring Stacy, she didn't remember
(05:11):
what Summer Stacy knew.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And now's the time exactly. And you know, for me,
half the fun of doing something is anticipation. If you're
going to go on a vacation, or you're you're dreaming
and scheming about this beautiful patio area or whatever, half
the fun is anticipation. And that is supported by stuff
(05:37):
that I read from psychologists who say the same thing,
that it's the anticipation that that is the fun. But
we're either moving forward or backwards. Nothing ever stays the same.
And rearranging and moving plants in your landscape is easy
on paper and in your mind not so easy. But
(06:00):
now's the time to be doing that, because come October
I will be all business. So the time is now.
The lesson is learned. I think about Jimmy Buffett. I
love Jimmy Buffett's music, and he's got this song where
he buys a watch from a guy floating down the canal.
He says, it doesn't use numbers or moving hands. It
(06:23):
always just says now. Now you may be thinking that
I was had, but this watch is never wrong. And
if I had trouble, the warranty said, breathe in, breathe out,
move on. This is a great time of the year
to breathe in, breathe out, and move on.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Move on from your mistakes, or move on to correct
your mistakes. I'm wondering, okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Anticipation, Well, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I think a big part of that, though, is is
identifying what needs to be done. And I think for
a lot of people, myself included, you know, you're looking
at your garden and maybe something is like flopping or
taking over management isn't working for you. It's it is
a habit to develop to acknowledge, to recognize those things
(07:08):
and translate that into action rather than just go, oh,
you know, I really wish I hadn't planted that. Okay, well,
now's the time to remedy that. So you do need
to take that opportunity to kind of reconcile your thoughts
about what's happening in the gardener landscape with taking action,
because now really is one of the best times to
take action. And you know, every year people we answer
(07:29):
questions about lawns, we answer questions about dividing, and we
always say fall well, now it's fall.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, now's the time. Like Jimmy Buffett said, And I
was reading an article in psychology today and it was
talking about the fact that moving your furniture around can
actually make you feel better. And so I would ask
the question, how often does the typical person rearrange furniture
in their house, aside from the deep cleaning that you're
(07:58):
going to get, you feel better about the space, maybe
unclutter the room. And so they were recommending to move
furniture around often. Again something that's much easier as an
idea than to physically do. But again, it's all about
(08:19):
spatial design. And this is the time of year, like
Stacey said, you know, you've maybe some of those plants
are really crowding each other out, or maybe there's a
plant that needs to get the boot.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can and
you can give it to a friend and you don't
have to feel bad. They're going to be excited.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, you've lived in your
landscape all summer. Now we head towards fall. Good time
to take a look at spatial design. So functional, immersive,
just relevant type human environment for you to be able
to enjoy your landscape. So spatial design is a conception,
(09:00):
victual discipline that prioritize both style and function. So we're
looking at spaces, we're looking at rooms, we're looking at
concept drawings. You don't have to be an artist, you
don't have to be an architect or a designer. If
you have a legal pad and a pen, you can
(09:20):
do it. And the best place to start with a
plan is a bubble diagram. You can organize your spaces
without a lot of detail, without a lot of drawing investment.
I guess it's stacy just a functional diagram.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It is, and it's easy to do. Yeah, you don't
need any special kind of you know, skills to be
able to do it. It's just a way of thinking
about the space in your yard on paper rather than
in person.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And we'll talk more about this in segment four. Let
me give you a limb a rick to get this going.
Take pride in your landscape creation and plan changes with notation.
While busy and making progress, we all would have to
confesss half the funds, the anticipation. Would your space be
(10:07):
a creative pioneer? Your vantage point Belvedere this past year
has been great, but can't help contemplate what would it
be like next year?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Oh? Love that so true?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Wait till next year. Let's see how Stacey ties this
in with plants on trial here on the Gardening Simplified.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
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(10:49):
Proven Winners Color Choice dot Com. Goore Reading's gardening friends,
and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the
order of the day is now the fun begins referring
to our opportunities to improve our gardens in fall. And
at the end of the previous segment, you used in
your limerick a word belvidere. Yes, do you know what
(11:12):
that means?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes? A belvidere would be like isn't it a vantage point?
A position that you have kind of a I don't know,
a little building or whatever where you sit there and
you can view over an area.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Well, so it literally means an Italian beautiful view there
you go Belvedere. So yes, a Belvidere would be a
small place to take in a beautiful view. But the
literal meaning is beautiful view.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I stuck it in there because it rhymed.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
All right, Well that's a rare opportunity if you can
rhyme with Belvidere. You're welcome here.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Oh very good, Stacy. You're hot today, Yes I am.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And speaking of being hot, I'm kicking off plants on
trial with another one of my horticultural hot takes.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Here, it comes here.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It comes. Burning bush is a boring plant and you
shouldn't plan it controversy, and if you have one, now
would be a great time to remove it now, Okay,
hear me out.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Send your cards, letters, emails care of Stacey her Vella.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yes, exactly, what's next?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Daies and marigolds.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Now that's different. That's different because day lilies are a
not invasive and burning bush is very invasive. And b
dailies are you know, they're just like a little thing.
They're not They don't take up a lot of space.
But hear me out.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
If you I agree with you, I'm not disagreeing at all.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I agree with.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Your hot take.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, good I'm glad, and I think Adriana agrees with
this hot take as well. But if you do not,
if you're sitting there aghast and clutching your pearls, please
do hear me out. It's a horticultural one trick pony,
you know, Like all it does is have fall color,
and that's cool, and it is, I will admit, pretty
(13:03):
great fall color, but like a ton of stuff has
really really great fall color. And you know, for me,
maybe it's part of having a smaller space to work in.
But I'm not looking for a one trick pony, and
I certainly don't want a one trick pony that is
also invasive to boot. So it doesn't have particularly attractive
(13:24):
or interesting flowers. In fact, most people probably think that
burning bush doesn't even bloom because the little green flowers
are not particularly showy and they turn into fruits, which
can be kind of interesting. And if you look up
burning bush fruits on the internet, you'll be like, oh,
actually those are kind of great, but in real life
they don't actually look as spectacular as they do or
(13:45):
not is interesting And if the fruit is what interests
you about burning bush, there are some fabulous native uantamis
that get even better fruits, So consider those. But I
don't think most people are growing burning bush for the fruit.
It's a big plant, you know, it's it's pretty big,
and you know, all of that together is not deer resistant,
(14:06):
it's not not drought tolerant.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It's rabbit food.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It's rabbit food and deer food, and yeah, and it's invasive,
and in some places it's extremely invasive. Over here, not
too bad because of our dry soil, but you know,
certainly anywhere on the East Coast, you can't hike into
a woods without finding burning bush popping up everywhere, and
that's pretty depressing. So one trick Pony has. All it
really does is have full color. And even though it
(14:32):
is good fall color, like everything else also has really
good fall color at that time. To me, the most
interesting thing about burning bush is the winged bark.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yes they call it.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yes, such a great name, because the bark does grow
these kind of quirky wings on it, and that's kind
of cool. But all told, I mean, come on, let's
just face it. We can do better than burning bush.
And so this fall, as we sit around thinking about
the changes that we're going to make and our garden.
If you have a burning bush, I think it would
(15:03):
be a good time to consider replacing it, and I
have a replacement suggestion for you. It is today's plant
on trial and it is Kodiak red two point zero
darvilla perfect perfect love the pot. So if you're not
familiar with darvilla, it is a North American native shrub.
You can certainly see it abundantly here in Michigan, especially
(15:25):
as you go a little bit further up north. But
it grows all over basically the entire US east of
the Mississippi. And as you might be able to guess
by the name Kodiak red, it has red fall color.
Now I will admit it is not going to be
quite as vivid as that of a burning bush. But again,
(15:45):
hear me out, I think that what it gives you
in exchange more than makes up for that difference in
color because it is native Okay, so not invasive compared
to the burning bush. In the summer, it has great
yellow flowers to yellow flowers all season long that attracts
native bumblebees and other pollinators. During the season. The foliage
(16:06):
is much more interesting because it comes out and emerges
in colors of tones of red, so you have that
red color on the foliage throughout the season as the
plant is growing, rather than just waiting for it to,
you know, do something finally in the fun.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
These and pollinators all over mine in summer.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, it is also very easy to grow, and you
can trim it and prune it and shape it if
you want to do that. And then yeah, of course
it lights up in fall. It is not super deer resistant,
but it is certainly more deer resistant than a burning bush.
Now I've grown it in my yard, darvilla. They will
(16:46):
typically munch it a little bit in spring, so kind
of in that timeframe when they're hungry they've exhausted all
the food out in the woods and the darvilla is
starting to emerge and it's got that nice, tender, soft growth.
They're like, hey, yeah, I'll settle for this. But you know,
ultimately they don't damage it very much, and it doesn't
impact the flower because it flowers on new woods. So
(17:08):
even if they do eat it a little bit in
the spring, you're still going to get the flowers. It's
not really going to impact the overall, you know, esthetics
of the plant.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I agree, and i'd add to your list, Stacy that
when it turns color, the foliage remains on far longer
than the foliage holds on a.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Burning Oh yeah, that's a great point. I didn't even
think about that, but you're right, Like burning bush lights
up and then it's like, no, I'm out.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
You know, days later, Yeah, the buildings.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And the foliage is dropping in color, which can look
kind of cool to have that kind of carpet of
red leaves underneath the plant. I mean, I'm trying to
be generous. I guess I know people love this plant,
and it truly mystifies me why burning bush is so
popular when it does so little in the landscape. And
not only that, but something that people might not know
from a nursery industry production standpoint. It's not an easy
(18:01):
plant to grow. It's slow growing, it doesn't like the
nursery environment. Yet somehow it has become a commodity that
they're able to offer super cheap. I don't know how.
I don't know how this happened.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
At garden centers. When it turns color, you can sell
them like hotcakes, so I guess that's it.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And but you sell them in the other part of
the season because people are like, I want a burning
bush because they remember, you know, it's like and maybe
it's it's a snappy name, easy to remember, burning bush,
and that might be kind of fun. But Kodiak Red
two point oh makes a much better alternative. And we
do have two point zero in the name because it
is an improvement on our original Kodiak Red Durvilla. So
(18:42):
we have been selecting and actually when we selected Kodiak Red,
it was specifically to serve as an alternate alternative to
burning bush in areas where burning bush is banned because
of its invasiveness. So a lot of that same kind
of color, but without all of those liabilities. So the
fall color on Kodiak Red two point is way better
even than the original Kodiak Red, So this makes a
(19:05):
great choice for replacing the burning bush in your landscape.
It's also heartier, so most burning bush you're gonna see
some squishiness between these numbers, but most burning bush is
hardy zones four through eight and typically does get winter
damage in zone four and sometimes in zone five as well,
whereas the Kodiak or Villa hardy all the way down
(19:27):
to USDA Zone three and heat tlernant up to zone eight,
so you have a much wider range where you can
grow this as well. So I mean, I think this
thing is win win win. But again, I know people
do love their burning bush, so I do want to
also mention, if I have not convinced you to switch
over to the dervilla side, that we do have a seedless,
(19:48):
non invasive burning bush fireball seedless, just because we know
that we can't convince people to stop planting burning bush
for whatever reason. So if you do love your burning
bush and you're sitting there shaking your head and saying,
I'm never going to listen to the Gardening Simplified Show again,
Stacy and our hot takes are just making me too angry.
I still have an option for you, fireball seedless, sterile,
(20:10):
non invasive. It will be on the market next year
in twenty twenty six in Garden Center. So that makes
a much better alternative than regular burning bush. Although again
I'm recommending today's plant on trial Kodiak Red two point zero.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Wow, all this controversy burning bush, green.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Flowers, green flowers, and we didn't even bring it up
in our green Flowers show last week. But anyway, there's
my two cents, I hope that you will consider adding
Kodiak Red two point oh to your landscape, whether you
need to replace a burning bush or you're just looking
for some snazzy color in the landscape or a native
shrub that's also really colorful and interesting. So we're going
(20:52):
to take a little break. When we come back, we're
opening up the garden mail bank, so please stay tanned.
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(21:15):
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your local garden center or learn more at proven Winner's
Color Choice dot com. Reading's gardening friends, and welcome back
to the Gardening Simplified Show, where I promise you I'm
(21:38):
done with my horticultural hot takes. If you are still here,
thank you for listening through that. I don't think I
have any more for today, but.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I look forward to future weeks.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I should do a whole segment of hot Time.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh hi. If there's plenty more where that came from.
Believe me, Adrian and I were starting to brainstorm a
few today so we could make this a regular thing.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Now I've got some hot okay, and I'll.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Bet our listeners do as well. So if you want
to leave a comment on YouTube as to what your
horticultural hot take is, we would love to hear it. Anyway,
before we get to the mail bag where we answer
your questions about what is going on in your garden
right now or in the future. I did want to
mention that we have a brand new video on YouTube
(22:26):
and it is a tour of my garden and of
Rix Garden, something that people have been asking for for
some time and we finally got it for you. Just
a peek at some of what's going on and not
what we're going to be doing as now the fun begins,
but what we've been seeing over the past couple of weeks.
It's a good update on my garden after all of
(22:47):
the craziness that we did last year and the first
look at Rix Garden. If there's been pictures you know
in other episodes of the show, but no one's really
seen like your whole garden.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, working my way up the back dune, I would
say I'm about fifty percent on and practicing what I
preach as far as you know. Now the fun begins
because this fall and into winter, I have an east
garden planned. I'm expanding the deer compound film wow, and
(23:17):
building that pergola this winter.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So I thought that one of the funniest things about
the video. After I watched my part and then I
watched your vegetable garden, I was like, Wow, Rick really
adheres to proper spacing, and my vegetable garden is not.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Probably thought you were going to comment on the day lilies.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
That was funny. I think a lot of our listeners
are you know, longtime listeners will know that of my
dislike for daylilies and the fact that I think that
they resemble cloth diapers. So Rick made a point of
that radio and he made sure that I saw his
collection of day lilies there in the garden. So we're
(24:00):
going to start answering your gardening questions. We have some
really good ones that I think are very timely and
if you want to reach us with your gardening question,
you can leave a comment on YouTube or go to
Gardening Simplified on air dot com and click the contact tab.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
What do we got, Jennifer writes with some spacing questions.
I'm planting two blue chiffon rows of Sharon's at work,
and I want them planted as close to the back
edge as possible. How much space should they have away
from the edge. Why don't we start there?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Okay, So the simple equation here for spacing is you
look at the range of width that a plant has,
and so in the case of blue chiffon rose of Sharon,
I believe that's six feet. You divide that in half,
and then you're going to place the center that distance
from the whatever obstacle, whatever line or obstacle, structure, whatever
(24:54):
you're trying to work with. So, if you are trying
to go as close as possible to the back edge,
like Jennifer is, I would go with a three foot
If you're trying to give yourself plenty of room, like
you need to walk by or something like that, then
you're going to want to go on the longer edge
of that. But overall, it's right there in the width,
they just divide it by half, measure it out, and
(25:15):
then you place that center right on that point.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Makes sense. Jennifer also says, I'm planting pufferfish hydranges, love
those minor and full bloom in my landscape right now,
and I didn't want to space everything further mature size
just yet, because then I'm gonna have a huge, big
empty space for a long time. Is it bad to
move them as they get bigger and just bump out
(25:40):
my flower bed as they grow? I have a hedge
of boxwoods in front of them. They're gonna have to
get bumped out. Also, is it bad to wait? Should
I just bite the bullet make the flower bed the
size that I plan it to be five years from now? Boy,
that's a great question, And Jennifer's really thinking here, and
I you know, I would again say what we said
(26:02):
in the first segment. The fun begins right now, So
you know, I would say do it as you go,
as opposed to putting them in at the five year
distance and sitting there with all that extra space. But
that's just me.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, you know, I Jennifer's question, in the way that
she phrased this really made me realize that my quote
life is too short for proper spacing does come from
this exact phenomenon where you know, you put in a
new plan, and even if you get a larger plant
like a three gallon or something, if it is a
bigger plant like a puffer fish hydrangea, it's just going
(26:43):
to get to beat about five feet tall and wide.
You are waiting some time for that to fill in,
and you do have a lot of exposed ground. So
I get that, but I would recommend personally not moving it.
I would plan for the five year spacing. And the
reason for that well, first of all, well, if you
have clay soil, trying to move things as easier said
than done, much less of an issue for you and
(27:05):
I out here Rick with our nice sandy soils. But
it does as much as Reck and I move plants
around and don't have an issue with it, it does
set the plant back some when you move it, and
you know, depending on a lot of other factors, it
can set it back quite a bit. So you don't
necessarily want to lose that momentum. So kind of what
do you do if I don't think that the only
(27:27):
two options are you know, have to move the plant
or look at big empty space for five years. So
I have a couple of suggestions for you, Jennifer. You
could do annimals in between them.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I think that that is smart. As a matter of fact,
I take back what I originally said, because I love
to have that fun every fault. You're right, why not
do that?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, so you can put annuals makes perfect sense of
all sorts in there. Just sow. Some zinias do something
to take up that space. Short lived perennials also work well,
so you know, usually there are a number of beloved
perennials that are just naturally rather short lived. So just
a couple off the top of my head. Gilardia scabiosa,
which is also known as pincushion flower, Lupin's beautiful plant,
(28:12):
but not the longest live. They do typically self sow,
so you don't have nothing, but the plant that you
bought does disappear. And so those are a good choice too,
because you'll be able to enjoy them in the space
and then they'll just naturally kind of die out or
you know, maybe start self sewing in some cases and
you won't have to worry about it, or you know,
if you have other plants that are inexpensive, like day lilies,
(28:34):
just plant them and then as they end up getting
shaded out by your shrubs growing, just let them expire,
you know, just let him go.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I think that's smart. Many vista supertunias and using them
as a groundcover filler. Fabulous.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's a great choice. Yeah, I mean that is in
you know, as much as people love the vistas supertunias
because they're so vigorous, sometimes are too vigorous for a basket.
So you let it grow all over your ground. You're
gonna have a fab carpet. You can also do containers
with some tropicals, so you could just place containers in
those areas until that fills in. So I don't think
(29:09):
it's in either or situation. I think you have lots
of options, but I would do your long term planning now,
save yourself the work and the setback on the plants.
Leader love it.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Ryan asks, Good day, fellow gardeners. I have a question
regarding dividing perennials in a cold zone three Canadian garden. Wow.
I usually divide and transplant my perennials in spring, and
I'm looking at switching it to fall, so my spring
seems less busy as we have a short, crazy spring season.
(29:40):
Will my plants be less likely to come through our
cold winters if I were to do this, as low
snow cover in the first part of winter can be
unpredictable and our cold winters can be extreme. I love
this question. Yeah, and you and I may have two
different answers here, because I'm going to say to Ryan,
go for it. I divide and move pretty much all
(30:04):
of my perennials in fall, and I think as long
as you mulch them in so they don't heave out
of the ground, you're going to be just fine with
the cold weather. So Stacey, I'm recommending Ryan goes for it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I agree. I you know, either way works, but I
was so satisfied with my results that I had from
transplanting a bunch of stuff last fall. Now, it is
true that Reck and I do live in a bit
of a more mild climate than it sounds like you do, Ryan,
But I think for the most part, especially herbaceous perennials,
there are very few that come to mind for me.
(30:40):
And I'm speaking specifically about herbaceous perennials, not like kind
of tender semi woody perennials like butterfly bush, lavender and
carriopterus not that kind of stuff, But any herbaceous perennial
it should be just fine. The only exception to be
any perennials that typically get winter damage in your area,
which I can't imagine you'd be growing many of those anyway.
(31:03):
Maybe you are, and then you can always just try,
you know, if you have multiple plants, try some and
leave others. But I am I am definitely team fall
transplanting and dividing. I agree, And you know, I think
that even with low snow cover, as long as your
perennials are hardy and reliable in your area, you really
have nothing to worry about. In mulch, of course always
(31:25):
a good idea, yeah, because if.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You have a freeze thaw cycle, they could heave out
of the ground, so you take care of that with mulch.
And I think the important thing for people to remember
is even if the air temperature is getting cold, you'd
be surprised how warm the soil stays well into December.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, and that means more root growth, and that means
your plants are much happier in spring rather than having
to recover from the transplanting. So yep, go for it, Ryan,
save that spring energy for other garden tasks. We're going
to take a little break. When we come back, we'll
be continuing our conversation about how the fun begins now
in full, so please stay tuned. Thanks for listening to
(32:11):
the Gardening Simplified Podcast, brought to you by Proven Winners
Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens
are trialed and tested by experts with your success in mind.
Learn more at Proven Winners color Choice dot com.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show today, as we
talk about how the fun begins, it's a great time
of the year to do some planning, some dreaming, some
scheming for your landscape and your garden. Maybe you've had
a few disappointments this year. We're reminded often that gardeners
like to sit back and say, wait till next year.
(32:49):
I love the author and historian Doris Kerns Goodwin. She's
written some wonderful books, including one called Wait Till Next Year.
Her childhood and how she loved the Brooklyn Dodgers in
the nineteen forties. Nineteen fifties, and that was their mantra,
wait till next year, because they'd make it to the
(33:11):
World Series, and every year the Yankees would knock them
out until nineteen fifty five when the Brooklyn Dodgers finally
broke through and won the World Series in that year,
and then, of course two years later they pull up
stakes and move to Los Angeles. But she's a wonderful
author and historian, and I think often of wait till
(33:33):
next year, And that's what we do in our landscapes.
And so it's the perfect time of the year, as
everything is full grown, to get out there and do
a little bit of spatial design. Now, once the spatial
design is finalized, it's later that you can work in
the hard scape and the landscape elements. One of the
(33:54):
things to do with your bubble drawings or thinking about
spatial design in your living space is to think about
how spaces connect to each other. And I'm not always
good about that. Things will get overgrown and then I
can't get from point A to point B. It's difficult.
(34:14):
You want it to be friendly and fun to get
to the various different let's call them bubbles in your landscape.
So that's something to look at as far as spatial
design is concerned, which brings me to an important point
that I want to make Stacy, and that is when
you do this and you do spatial design in your landscape,
(34:36):
it is important to look at the negative space. And
negative space is very important not only in a photograph
how it's composed, but also within a landscape. It's an
area where we rest, where it's not as busy. So
(34:57):
obviously the number on one negative space area within a
landscape would arguably be turf a lawn, air.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Paths too, right, I hope path count Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So turf paths gravel provided the gravel is clearly defined
with steel edging or aluminum edging. But those negative spaces
are very important to think about. You need that, your
landscape needs that for some rest otherwise it gets too busy. Also,
(35:32):
does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It does make sense. Yeah, And I I don't really
have any negative space in my garden right now except
for paths.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I have that struggled, but I think a pady.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I have a couple patios and that's kind of like
a negative space. But it is so important to kind
of design those different areas and and link them and
I do want to say, just for the benefit of
those out there who have smaller yards, of the best
ways that you can make. There's two things you can
do to make your garden seem bigger. One is obscure
(36:05):
the edges so no one can really see how where
it actually ends. So if you have some big plants
that kind of obscure it. And if possible, make winding
curving paths, because that will slow you down as you
move through into those different spaces. You know, a straight
line is obviously the shortest distance between two points, so
(36:27):
if you mess with that and you kind of put
in some curves, you can even make it. You know,
a garden does not need to be efficient, and you
may find that your garden is much more fun to
be in if it's not just a bunch of straight lines.
And I say this as someone whose paths are largely
a bunch of straight lines. But you know, you don't
(36:48):
have to make everything efficient. It is about being in
the space. So you know, wind those around, make them
double back on themselves, just to have more opportunity to
spend in that path.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, so think about that negative space. And again you know,
for me it I don't necessarily do. I try to.
I try to look for negative space in a composition.
But my problem is, Oh I like that plan, Oh
I want that plan. Oh I need that. Oh I'm
you know, I can't go to a garden center without
(37:21):
walking out with two or three plants, and quickly you
lose that to that negative space. So think about that.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That's what falls for right, That's when you start looking
at all of that there. I couldn't leave the garden
center without it moments, and you can then have some
objective perspective on it and say, oh, you know, I
need to thin this out. I'm going to move things around.
It's important to just always have that kind of you know,
critical eye as to optimizing your space.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, no, that's right. And you know, looking at various
designs out and about, or looking on Pinterest or whatever
it may be to get some ideas. But I let
me give you a hot take controversial.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
You're right, I love it.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Interior design is generally pretty universal. Exterior design and a
landscape is not. I think an exterior design more so
reflects our personality or the chaos than an interior because
with an interior design, you have the trim, you have
(38:30):
the wall color, you have, you know, the things that
you add to the room. And there are some people
who are very good at it, and I respect people
who can do that. But a lot of the concepts
within interior design, I think are somewhat universal, whereas outside
it's almost like anything goes well.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
You know, you're absolutely right, because of course an interior design,
if something is a living room, it needs to have
chairs for sitting. If something is a dining room, it
needs to have a table for dining, whereas outside it
can be anything. And I think that that is part
of why people don't take full advantage of it, because
they don't have that those parameters to help them decide
what they're going to do. It's a quote that I've
(39:12):
said before on the show. The enemy of art is
the absence of limitations. In our house, we're limited by
what role the different rooms in our homes fill, whereas
outside we have no such limitations necessarily, So we have
to impose them on ourselves and then be creative within
the limitations that we decide to impose on our landscapes.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, you have to look at the environment. I guess
you know. What I'm trying to say is if you
see a really cool landscape in France or Hawaii, it
may not necessarily thrive in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Right, the concept can translate, but the.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Concept can translate. So this is this is fun stuff
to take.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
You have a vacation plan, You're like throwing out all
these crazy locations.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
This is a fun time of the year. I don't know,
I don't know what I got in this mug here today,
but you know, and when you think about that too, again,
I talked about universal design. Think about some plants as denim.
Anything goes great with denim. You can wear a dress shirt,
you can wear a T shirt, whatever it may be.
Everything goes great with denim. So the kind of denim
(40:17):
plants I'm thinking about for a landscape are arbor, vite
or boxwood. Does that translate? Does that make any sense?
They're kind of denim plants.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
They they're the workaday, you know, they're still useful and great.
Classic denim is also classic. But yeah, they go with everything.
So if you don't know what to do, you know,
you plant a boxwood. It pretty much always works.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yeah. Now, of course this time of the year also
you can do something that is one of my favorite
and most fun things to do.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Stealing leaves from your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, that's part of it. That's part of it that
comes a little later. Leaves aren't going to start falling
off the trees until mid October. But around that time
we don't get newspaper anymore. We don't get newspapers delivered
to our homes anymore. And I used to always use
newspaper to smother grass areas. I'd put down the newspaper,
(41:13):
then some of the leaves coming off the trees, and
then some soil on top of the leaves. Let it
cook all winter long. In the following spring, you got
a really cool planting bed. And I'm just saying to
do some dreaming and scheming this time of the year.
You can take some turf areas that you want to
convert to flower beds, maybe use cardboard in lieu of
(41:34):
newspaper and do some of that that smothering. Maybe you
can do some dreaming and scheming by grabbing a garden
hose and snaking it around in the landscape and creating
a bed shape that looks great to you. But we're
coming up on a time of year when when that's
an opportunity too, and next spring, you'll be glad that
(41:55):
you did.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
It, you know. And that's also a great way to
use some those odds and ends Kansas you might have
in your basement, take those and use them to mark
out the bedlines. That's what we do here all the
time at the nursery.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
So it's just fun. I mean, I you know, I
can't wait to hook up my trailer and drive around
the neighborhood and pick up leaves and and get into this.
It's such a fun time. Even though I love summer,
this is just a fun time of the year.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
If you can't tell this was Rick's idea for this
topic is hype.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
As a matter of fact, let's call it. We're gonna
call the show here because I'm going to get to work.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yeah, he's gonna no time, no time to lose fun.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
I did want to share a word of the day,
by the way that I maybe for the future we
can talk about this echo musicology. Echo musicology it's an
area of study that explores the relationships between music or
sound and the natural environment.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I thought that, you know, because I have my ornamental
grasses that are dancing in the breeze at this time
of the year, I was thinking about echo musicology.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
I like it. I've never heard that word before.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I need to dig in a little deeper on that, Stacy,
It's been fun.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Thank you, sure has.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Thanks Rick, Thanks Adriana, and thanks most of all to
you for watching us on YouTube, for listening to the
radio show version, or looking for our podcast wherever you
download your favorite podcast. Have a great week.
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