The Lavender Show

Lavender is one of the most beloved garden plants - and also one of the most frustrating. That's why we're devoting an episode to growing it! Featured shrub: Bloomerang Dark Purple lilac.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Coming to you from Studio A here at Proven Winters,
Color Choice Shrubs. It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show
with Stacy Hervella me, Rick Weist, and our engineer and
producer Adrianna Robinson. Well, Stacy, I love today's topic. We're
going to talk about lavender. Lavender smells like a spa
day minus the cost. It's where calm meets color. People

(00:26):
love lavender. It's also a very misunderstood plant. One of
those plants that is a perennial but acts like a
woody shrub. Similar to all the questions we get on
puning bud Leah's a plant that's a woody shrub that
acts like a perennial. And I guess I have to

(00:47):
say Stacy, with all the cultivars. Also, no wonder people
are confused.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, lavender was one of my first big gardening mistakes.
Oh and I have not made it since. But before
we go into lavender, Rick, it's March first, it's meteorological spring.
We change the background and it is depending on how
you count it. And Rick definitely is in the meteorological
going by the months rather than the equinoxes.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
So happy spring, Happy Spring, boy, I've been looking forward
to this. We're going to thaw out here in the
north and enjoy spring for all it's worth. You know,
lavender is one of those plants Stacey, that you should
not prune in the fall or in winter. At least.
My recommendation is, if you want to be successful with lavender,

(01:38):
prune it in the spring, just as we're starting to
see some growth.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes, that is the key. Let the plant tell you
when and where to cut. And you know, lavender is
a little bit like it is like buddleia. It's also
a little bit like big leaf hydranges in that when
you go out into the garden in spring to clean up,
you look at this mess of sticks with their kind
of wilted foliage and you go, oh, I couldn't possibly

(02:05):
be nothing's going to come out of that that looks dead.
And so you cut it back and there goes your lavendar.
And that's what I did in my first garden. Okay,
And the leavender did not come back because I cut
it back to nothing. There were no buds left to
come back. But you know, you have to. It's one
of those plants you have to have a little faith,
don't prune and as always went in doubt, don't prune.
And this goes for lavender and spring or anything else

(02:27):
in spring, just leave it and you can fix it
later rather than pruning it, which you can't usually fix. Yeah,
and then wait for that new growth to start to emerge,
and then you know the plant's alive. It's showing you
where on the stem it is alive, so you know
exactly where to cut and uh yeah, so you kind
of have to let the plants show you rather than

(02:47):
impose your will on the plant.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Just like bud Leah because budd Leo will show you too.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Right, absolutely, same exact thing. Yeah, and you know they
require the same conditions as well, So if you're successful
with butterfly bush in your garden that they also need,
you know, really well drained, soilful sun. Chances are you'll
be successful with lavender. And if you're successful with lavender,
then you will be successful with.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Butterfly bush exactly. Because the key here with lavender, if
I cut to the chase, is that, first of all,
I think everyone should have lavender in their yard. But
if you're going to have lavender, you need to understand
the different types of lavender. That are out there. And
then secondly, I think the true key is soil that

(03:32):
is well drained and a good sunny spot and pruning
it at the right time of the year. And if
you do those three things, you're going to be successful
with lavender.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
You know, we're lucky. We live in a great environment
for growing lavender. And I have a ton of lavender
in my garden. I'm putting even more in this year
because it's going to be an inside border to my
herb garden. Nice and it just thrives here. And you know,
I don't really harvest it or use it for anything,
but I love lavender. I love the way it looks

(04:04):
in the garden. I love its silvery foliage. I love
its fragrance. You know, my absolute favorite thing is weeding
around lavender. Oh yeah, the best, just like you just
get it. Being in the garden. Doesn't get much better
than that. Just like working, as you know, enjoying it's
one thing. But like if you're working, you're down there,
the leaves are brushing your arms and it just smells amazing.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Like they say, lavender late than never, is that how
it goes? Yeah, lavender late than never? But you're right.
It's recommended, for example, to plant under bedroom windows. I
have some lavender under the bedroom window on the west
side of the house, so the breezes are predominantly from
the west, the summertime breezes. And of course lavender is

(04:47):
noted for its ability to calm nerves, anxiety, all of
these good things. The reason they put it in sachets
and and pot pourrie, et cetera, et cetera. Lavender has
a great It.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Has a great reputation on mental well being, and of
course in food it's a little more polarizing. Some people
love it, some people not so much.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
The other thing is pollinators love it. And that's one
thing that I really really enjoy in the garden is
when lavender is in bloom and it's just swarming with
all sorts of bees and butterflies and the color just
I love it.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
It's fabulous. Quick limb a rick for you, because yes,
I too, am inspired, Stacy. In my garden, it's a mainstay.
It lines each and every walkway. Its presence makes me chill.
My space is trank. Will Laughender your blues away? Did

(05:44):
you see what I did? I did see that yeah, Laughender,
I kind of like that one. Yeah. So it's important
to understand the different types of lavender. Here in the North.
Most people are using something we would call English lavender,
which is confusing because it's really native to England. It's
native to Mediterranean areas. But then you go beyond that

(06:06):
and you look at some of the new hybrids, so
there's a difference between lavender and Lavendin's Phenomenal is a
great hybrid variety that you can grow in your landscape,
gets very large, Stacey, as far as English lavender is concerned,
I planted Sweet Romance in my yard. It's English lavender.

(06:31):
So we're talking about the angustifolia lavenders, beautiful blooming not
just on the terminal but a little ways down the stem,
and very fragrant, very hardy, very tough.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yes, that's what it's all about. It's a proven winners perennial.
So it's a great choice. I grow both headcoat and Phenomenal. Okay,
And you know, it's always interesting to me seeing them
side by side in my garden because you really can't
necessarily tell in the garden center, but seeing them side
of my side in my garden I would describe it
this way. The English lavender headcoat, which is probably one

(07:04):
of the most popular varieties, certainly one that you'll find
at your garden center. It looks English like. It has
kind of a tidy, well behaved vibe to it. It
stays very small. It just feels like a proper English garden,
whereas the Phenomenal kind of has more of like a
South of France wild kind of vibe, whereas the head

(07:26):
coat is like kind of more like square, rectangular looking.
I love how the Phenomenal just makes this big mound
with this array of flowers coming out of it. So
I actually use them both in my lavender border, and
I so it's mostly comprised of hadcoat, but I put
the Phenomenal at the corners so that looks kind of cool.
And phenomenals also later it's a little bit later to

(07:47):
bloom than had coats, so it's kind of like I've
got this great season extender out there. I love them both.
I would be hard pressed to pick one over the other.
And I hope to add even more lavenders to my garden.
But you know, as you say, not all lavender is
very hardy, even for us here in zone six. A
lot of them are zone eight or warmer.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
And for people who are growing lavender just for the
scent or growing it to use essential oils. Let's say,
it's important to understand the difference between lavendin's and lavender,
and so Stacey, Phenomenal, as you mentioned, would be a lavendin,

(08:27):
and your English lavenders would be obviously lavender. And you're right,
they almost seem more suited for a formal type garden,
whereas Phenomenal or some of the English hybrids, so to speak,
how can I best put it? They don't color within

(08:48):
the lines.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yes, I like that about them, and it's good to
make them right. So you know, if you're confused about
what we're talking about with lavendin, well, one thing you
can do is just look at the heartiness on the
plant tag, because the lavendons are the hardiest lavenders. And
not only are they the hardiest, they're the most resilient.
So if you're growing in a clay soil and you've
typically had trouble trying to overwinter lavender, one of these lavendons,

(09:12):
like Phenomenal or its sister plant Sensational, would probably be
a better choice for you. Whereas the English lavender, lavendula
and gustifolia. Just look at the tag there no X
because the lavendons are Lavendula x EnterMedia. So if there's
no X there, you know you've got a straight species
like the English lavender exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
And with that English lavender again hot sunshine, well drained.
I'm growing mine practically in beach sand.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I don't fertilize them. They do just fabulous. And Stacy,
you're talking about the different types of lavender. Of course,
we've talked about the English lavender. There is a French
lavender it's Lavendula dentata, but it's only hardy to zone eight.
I have tried growing wooly lavender in my yard and

(10:04):
I've had some success doing it. But again that's a
plant that is only to zone eight. I'm six A,
six B, but I've had some success growing there. You
have we talked, Yeah, I have, but it's hit and missed.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, it's not pretty the English hybrids as we just
talked about. And then you have Spanish lavender, which has
these pineapple shaped type flowers.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
With little buddy ears of petals on the top. I love, love,
love Spanish lavender. My understanding is that is only hardy
to USA Zone eight or so as well. It is
so unfortunately not that's like my dream lavender because that
one is one of the best ones for perfume and fragrance,
and it just looks a little bit different. But you
know what, again, I'll be grateful for what I can
get here.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, all same here and when you're growing lavender, I
feel like I'm trying to sell this to people, but
I don't think I have to sell it. Lavender is
much loved Stacey pess diseases or things like rabbits or
deer generally non fat.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, they don't like as much as we like to smell.
They mercifully do not. And yeah, they don't get any
pester diseases except unless you give them root rot. And
I think that's why we kind of do have to
sell lavender to people, because so many people have loved
it and had a bad experience, and so you kind
of knew need to get back on the horse and
try it again, because it's possible that if you didn't

(11:27):
know this, you bought the wrong type of lavender for
your soil, for your conditions. So you know now, especially
with phenomenal and sensational on the market. I have heard
great reports from even like farmland in Ohio clay country,
open exposed areas that they have had great winter survival
on phenomenal. So you know, times are always changing, the

(11:47):
golden age of plant breeding, and they're even resolving the
issues that make lavender unattainable for some people.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
So you've done a lot of copywriting and descriptive writing
on play ants over the course of your life, Stacey,
and I wanted to ask you as far as lavender
is concerned. At the outset, I mentioned that it's a
perennial that kind of acts like a woody shrub. Would
you be willing to classify something like that as a

(12:16):
sub shrub?

Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's exactly what I classified it.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Really, Why is that because.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
It's only partly shrubby, like partly cloudy but partly shrubby.
So a subshrub is defined as something that is woody
at the base but herbaceous for the rest of the plant,
and that's exactly what lavender is. So you know, the
top bottom, you know, from the ground up like maybe
five inches or so, are true wood shrubby, but all
the growth that it puts on is herbaceous fantastic.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know. I was at a trade show, a winter
trade show, and someone was kind enough to give me
Proven Winners Sweet Romance English lavender, and I took it
and threw it in my shed because it gets very
cold here in Michigan in the winter. Then I planted

(13:03):
it in a hot, sunny area. That thing made it
through winter, thrived, continues to thrive, blooms its head off,
laughs at the deer and the rabbits, and provide so
much joy and satisfaction. I just can't sing the praises
of that plant enough.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I love it, love it.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Now. I'm interested in seeing how you're going to tie
this in in plants on trial. That's coming up next
here on the Gardening Simplified Ship.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Beautify your home and community with proven Winter's Color Choice Shrubs.
With over three hundred and twenty five unique varieties to
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Color Choice dot com. Greeting's Gardening friends and welcome back

(13:56):
to the Gardening simplified show where we are celebrating spring.
If you look out the window and the weather is
not well, at least it feels like it's on the
way now that it's March, even though March can be
a little bit cruel in it's uh in the weather
it serves out, you know, nice one day and really
super crowdy the next, as they say, but you know

(14:17):
it's here, and it does make it feel like it's closer,
and I am. You know, all this talk about lavender
has got me so so excited about my new RB garden.
Now It's going to be a while till I can
start on my new herb garden in my garden renovation,
because I have so much other stuff to do before
I can get to that. But in thinking about lavender

(14:40):
and thinking about my herb garden, I was remembering so
in my previous job, I worked for a garden magazine
if you remember magazines from way back in the day,
And one of the things that I did was I
went around to see gardens all over the country and
to find gardens to feature in the magazine. Obviously a
pretty great gig if you can get it, and one

(15:01):
of my absolute favorite gardens that I had ever seen
was at this beautiful eighteen sixteen farmhouse in rural New Hampshire,
and yeah, it was amazing. And the garden, you know,
because this is like way back and goes back to
like colonial times, it was not uncommon for people to
have sort of small kitchen gardens very near to their home,

(15:24):
so they would grow probably medicinal herbs, culinary herbs, yeah,
some you know, different things that they could use in
the household and in this garden, and keeping with that tradition,
the gardener had created a small formal herb garden just
outside the kitchen door there, and it was made up
of four square beds, kind of raised beds surrounded by

(15:49):
thick lumber, and it was all surrounded by flagstone. And
that kind of gave it this really nice sort of
push and pull of formality because you had the formality
of these very rigid square and then the flagstone had
some you know, different self sowers and stuff growing in
And I've talked about it before. I love that look
and what the gardener had done. So the beds are

(16:10):
full of herbs, and in two of them she had
planted lilac standards. Okay, So a standard, if you're not familiar,
is basically a tree form that looks a lot like
a lollipop y. So lilacs are naturally shrubby. There is
a tree lock that tree liloc that's a totally separate species.
We're not going there today. These are lilacs that have

(16:31):
been trained by the grower to take on a tree
like form. And so what this gardener did was she
took those two tree or those two standard lilacs, and
put them right in the center of two of the beds.
And this is so memorable to me because it looked
absolutely amazing. It accomplished several things. So it brought height

(16:52):
to the herb garden because by and large, most herbs
that were growing in our herb gardens are not particularly tall.
There's stuff, certainly like a lavage matures that will get
to be six feet tall. There's some herbs that get big,
but mostly they're all kind of you know.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Little shows show exclamation.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Exclamation points, right, and they provided this exclamation point without
providing shade, because of course herbs are sun loving plants,
and so by having this very sort of small canopy,
it didn't shade out the plants. Below it, and in
my opinion, best of all, it also provided flowers and

(17:30):
color at a time when the herbs weren't really doing
all that much.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
I can picture it in my mind, you can.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
And then we're going to have a picture of the
exact garden on our YouTube show show. So if you
have not tuned into YouTube, you can check us out
over there. Just search for Gardening Simplified. You will find us.
Because yeah, this garden was actually featured in the magazine
that I was working at back then. The trees that
she had used were Miss Kim lilacs. Because this is

(17:57):
many years ago, and now my choice is I think about,
you know, sort of reinterpreting this in my garden. I
would do this with bloomerang dark purple lilac, and that
is today's plant on trial. I love that it's a
great plant, and I'm picking Bloomerang dark purple for a
couple of reasons. Number one, it's going to be somewhat similar.

(18:19):
You're going to be able to find it in these
tree forms because it's been around for quite a long time,
so growers now know the formula for producing it in
this tree form shape, so it's pretty easy to find
compared to any of our other lilacs. As a tree form,
of course, it's very easy to find. As a shrub form,
it's very disease resistant, so unlike other lilacs, you don't

(18:41):
have to worry about like bacterial leaf spot and fungus
and all those other things that a lot of other
lilacs get. And it's reblooming.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
So that's just so fabulous. I mean, back in the day,
I loved Miss Kim lilac. We sold a lot of
them in the garden center. But this is a great example, Stacey,
of how things have progressed forward and you just have
the choices are unreal.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Right, because why would you choose Miss Kim that only
flowers once when you can have bloomemering dark purple which
is going to flower in late spring, but then continue
to put out those flowers through the summer for just
a little bit of extra interests and of course attracting
pollinators and all of that. And the other reason that
I think lilac is such a great choice for this
is because lilacs and herbs like similar conditions. They both

(19:28):
want full sun and they both absolutely demand well drained soil.
Now there is a divergence here a little bit, because
bloomering dark purple lilac is hardy down to usdas on three,
and a lot of the herbs that we're talking about,
including lavender, are often only hardy to about zone four,
and some lilacs only choose zone five. It really depends

(19:49):
on your condition. Certainly, if you have very very well
drained soil, you might be able to get away with
growing lavender in USDA zone four. So there might be
a little bit of a disconnected there. But I absolutely
loved this combination, and I love Bloomering Dark Purple anyway,
because it was the second in the Bloomerang series. So

(20:11):
we introduced the original Bloomerang reblooming lilac way back in Gosh.
I think it was like twenty ten or something like that,
and it was a huge hit, and like everything else
in our program, you know, we continue to develop it
and refine it and look for improvements, and so Bloomering
Dark Purple was the next improvement, and it has completely
overtaken the original Bloomerang. The dark purple comes in, it's

(20:34):
primarily most visible when the plant is in bud okay.
The flower buds are the dark part when they open,
they're kind of more of a standard lilac color, but
they really are very impressive when they are in bud
and it blooms so much. It's just a very very vigorous,
very easy to grow plant.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Stacey. Aside from the beautiful blooms, what I love about
the plant is the foliage. The foliage is in my
open so much better than what you would find on
a typical vulgaris line.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Right, So, Syringa Vulgaris, which is the common eyelac that
everyone sort of you know, thinks of when they think
about a lilac, has big, almost sort of heart shaped
leaves and that provides a totally different texture than the
bloomerang lilacs, which have a very fine texture small leaves.
And I think it just works really really well, especially
in that tree form compared to you know, a regular

(21:28):
Syringa Vulgaris. You're not going to find in a tree
form typically because they're just too big and vigorous.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
And so is it fair to say that with the vulgaris,
odds are you're prone to powdery mildew, but not with
the bloomerang.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
That is absolutely true. I have never seen a bloomerang
in our trials with powdery mildew. It is a slightly
different species. It is a hybrid, and one of the
sacrifices that you make for that is that the flowers
are still very fragrant, but they don't have the lilac smell,
and I do miss that. But you know what, it's
not a like, you know, know, all or nothing kind

(22:02):
of proposition. I do have regular traditional lilacs in my
garden as well, and then there's room for these, so
you can kind of get the best of both worlds.
So there is a little bit of a trade off there.
But you know, it is so much nicer that they
do rebloom, that they resist disease. It makes them a
lot lower maintenance. And another great thing about combining them
with herbs both you're resistant.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Wow, so you don't have to worry have these plants,
and your herb garden can be like, you know, the
one place where you don't have to worry about the
deer messing up with your good life out there.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I posted that in social media last weekend.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Oh I saw that. Yeah, that was very cute.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, there's a deer in the yard. And you can
this time of the year, they're so hungry. You can
just walk right up to them. They don't even flinch,
you know, And I'm like, you know, the deer asked me,
when are the tulips going to be in bloom? And
I'm like, please don't touch my high ranges.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Well, I have seen their tracks in the snow, so
they are obviously they're busy looking, but hopefully they aren't
going to find too much in my garden, of course,
until spring comes and everything starts coming out all tender
and delicious. So, like I said, bloomering, dark purple lilock
hardy to usdas on three. It's only heat tolerant through
about USDA zone seven. But I'll tell you, if you

(23:16):
are one of our hot climate listeners and you're thinking,
oh shoot, I can't grow this, I'm jealous of you
because if I lived in your warmer climate, you know,
my choice would be a bay leaf topiary. Wouldn't that
be amazing? Yeah, so you could grow that into that
tree form because bay leafs are hardy two about USCA
zone eight. So you know, don't despair grow the bay

(23:37):
leafs and know that I am very, very jealous of
you and it still works in exactly the same way,
so there's something for all of us. So when it's
not in a tree form, bloomering dark purple lilac is
going to be about four to six feet tall and wide.
So I just wanted to mention that because the treeform
shrubs like bloomering dark purple as a standard do tend

(23:58):
to be quite a bit more expensive because there's a
lot more time that goes into producing them, so they
are a little bit more of an investment than a
shrub form. But if it's not in your budget or
in your taste, I still think that bloomering dark purple
makes a great choice as a hedge or specimen to
combine in your herb garden for all of the same
reasons that I just mentioned. So whichever way you find

(24:19):
it or prefer it as a shrub or as a
standard or small tree, it's going to be a great choice.
It's going to go well with your garden, it's going
to go well with your lavender, and it's going to
be a plant that you will treasure every spring when
it does start to flower, and it will be in
your garden center very soon, as we will all be
heading out there, So if you want more information, more details,

(24:40):
just visit Gardening Simplified on air dot com. You'll see
it in the show notes and get everything you need
to know to find a place for it in your garden.
So we're going to take a little break. When we
come back, we're opening up the garden mail bags, so
please stay tune it At Proven Winner's Color Choice Shrubs,

(25:02):
we know that a better landscape starts with a better shrub.
Our team of experts tests and evaluates all of our
flowering shrubs and evergreens for eight to ten years to
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Look for Proven Winner's Shrubs in the distinctive white container

(25:22):
at your local garden center or learn more at proven
Winner's Color Choice dot com. Greeting's Gardening friends, and welcome
back to the Gardening Simplified Show. We're celebrating spring by
talking about a summer blooming plant, lavender. But you know
it's a good time to plant it in spring, and
that's another tip for people who maybe haven't had much
success with lavender in the past. Anytime that you're kind

(25:45):
of pushing a plant's hardiness zone or winter survival, the
earlier you can plant it in spring, the better off
you'll be because then it has more of an opportunity
to create a good root system before the challenges of
you know, cold, wet fall and winter set in. So
put it on your plant list to get it in
quickly in the spring and hopefully set yourself up for success.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
And I know this segment is about our viewers and
listeners questions, but quick question for you, Stacy. When I
see I think it's called lo and Behold blue Chip junior, yep, yeap.
Love that plant. And when it's along lined along a
walkway that almost looks like lavender from a day, it.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Can very much look like lavender. And that was actually
my first thought for today's Plant on Trial, but I'd
already done it. Okay, but that's a night. But you know,
the thing is, like, I can't really necessarily recommend it
as an alternative to lavender, because I agree, if you
can grow lo and Behold blue Chip junior buddleia, you
can also grow lavender because as we've said, they definitely

(26:44):
require similar conditions, and the butterfly bush is only hardy
to about usdas on five where you might be able
to push it a little bit more with some lavender.
But yeah, a great way to get that look different
fragrance yep, different bloom time, but still a great plant.
So you know, we understand that not everyone has gardening
friends to celebrate their horticultural successes and triumphs with or

(27:07):
commisserate on their horticultural conundrums. So we love hearing from you.
And one of our listeners, Colin, wrote us he is
in Central Florida Usdazo nine B, so probably plenty warm
spring is well underway there, I would imagine, And he says,
I wanted to share some winter cheer with you here
in Central Florida. This year, we have a rare phenomenon.

(27:29):
Two of the most distinctive flowering trees, pink and yellow
tababuyahs or trumpet trees, are in full bloom. Usually the
pink ones bloom a month before the yellow ones, but
this year their bloom times completely coincided. They are in
the big non yac plant family and are outstanding trees
for Florida. I hope these beautiful trees brighten up your
winter gardening feed. And I've included a picture of my

(27:50):
own garden as well, which is an adorable little Florida
cottage that I just kind of want to move right into. Sorry, Colin,
but it's just perfect. And yeah, I would love to
be a Florida gardener one day. It sounds so fascinating.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Well, Colin, a big thank you, very mulch to you.
Those those pictures really warm to my heart. And that
tree some people call it trumpet flower. I believe they
call it trumpet flower, and you call it taba boo
ya tababoya like, but it is a Histeranthus tree, so

(28:28):
a tree that blooms before the foliage comes out, so
like red bud or magnolia, and trees notably do that
because the flowers are more accessible to pollinators or wind
pollination if they bloom before the leaves emerge. And so

(28:49):
I love that. And I saw a number of those
in Costa Rica this past year, but I was not
there during the dry season, so they were not in bloom.
Real characteristic to that tree is that the trunk grows
in contorted shapes in the rainforest or when there's a
lot of other plants around trying to reach for the sunlight.

(29:12):
What a gorgeous, fabulous.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Tree they are. I would love to be able to
grow these, and it's interesting he mentions that they are
in the Big noniac So if people tuned into our
winter garden tour, I talked about our new dress to
thrill crossvine, Big Nonia Caprioleta Capriolta. Yeah, which the whole
plant family Big Nonisa is actually named for so and

(29:35):
if you do grow the standard trumpet vine, it is
also in that same family, but not obviously a tree.
It's interesting that these two did bloom at the same time.
I have seen that happen in certain places, namely Nantucket,
where things that normally do not bloom together in other
climates bloom together. I'm not really sure what the explanation

(29:57):
here is in Florida, but you know what, you got
to take what you can get and it looks absolutely amazing.
So please do tune in on YouTube or our show
notes at Gardeningsimplified on air dot com to check out
Collins photos. What else we got in the mailbag, And.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
If you're proud of your garden or the way it's looking,
send us a picture we'd love to see it. That's
I want to touch on this. Don wrote to us
weeping Alaskan cedar struggling and losing some of the lower branches.
So I took a look at the picture that was
sent to us. Is it doing better after some fertile

(30:30):
It's doing better after some fertilization in recent years. But
Don is asking us whether or not the naked bottom
will fill in, or should I plant something in front
of the cedar or rip it out and start over.
So an Alaskan seedar and Stacy I took a look
at the picture. First of all, this is a plant

(30:50):
that I absolutely love.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I love it too.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Secondly, one of our topics a few weeks ago was
to move plants in the landscape. I'm going to suggest
that Don Bust to move Oh wow, now that ain't
gonna be difficult. This is a large tree. Yeah, and
if that were my home, I like where he put it.
It's just too close to the house. I would move

(31:14):
it out away from the house. Suggests that. But I'm
going to suggest that Don Bust to move this. This
tree is so gorgeous. There there are spectacular specimens at
the Morton Arboretum Michigan State University campus. And then of
course I remember spending time in Oregon, where along the

(31:35):
Pacific coast and in the Northwest you see them everywhere,
usually in wet areas, but just beautiful and being grown
in the nurseries there that are between Portland or Gresham,
Oregon and Mount Hood. Stunning. They knock your socks off.
So I want Don to keep this plant and maybe

(31:58):
try to bust a move.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
All right, that's a brave because it is a pretty
big plainton. We'll have pictures, of course in YouTube and
at Gardening Simplified on air dot com. This is a
great plant. Now, I don't necessarily feel like it's too
close to the house because the interesting thing about these
is that they do very often grow pretty flat, kind
of like almost in two dimensions, like a piece of paper.

(32:20):
So they're not one of these big spreading trees. They
have these sort of flat weeping branches, and people do
very often use them to fill in small spaces. And
I love where Don put this because it's a perfect
example of taking the cues from your house's architecture and
determining where to put a plant. It put it writes
back between some windows so it's just a perfect framing

(32:40):
of this plant. So you can certainly try to move
it if you would like. I definitely wouldn't get rid
of it, because I think it is beautiful, and obviously
you've invested several years in it, because it is mostly
looking pretty great. The red flag to me that stood
out here that is possibly accounting for the dieback that
you've seen on is the steaks. So I don't know,

(33:01):
Don didn't mention when he planted this, but it looks
to me like unless he did start with a quite
large tree, indeed, that it probably doesn't need those steaks
anymore and they could be girdling the plants.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Ooh, the steaks are high.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
The stakes are high and not necessary anymore, and so
I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible that how whatever
the staking material was that goes around the trunk is
starting to cut into that and that's what accounted for
that branch loss down below. Whether you want to plant
something in front of it to kind of cover up
the bare bottom, that is up to you. Don I

(33:37):
think it looks great just as it is. I would
just continue the TLC and I think that it will
eventually be fine, but do check that steaking, and I
think it can probably be removed entirely. If it's already
included into the bark, then I would definitely just cut it,
make sure it doesn't get any worse, and just keep
an eye on it.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
That's a great catch. You're right, And as far as
his question is concerned, the branches replacing themselves on the
lower part of the plant, possibly, but it's going to
take a long time.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
You know.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
The biggest issue with that is typically as the plant
has matured, it starts to shade out its own lower branches,
and so that's why you don't often see, for example,
a white pine that's branched all the way to the ground,
because if that is lost through damage or whatever, the
upper parts of the plant are so broad that they
shade out the bottom and it doesn't get enough sun

(34:27):
to actually recover. So whether or not o'll recover, I
don't know, but I think it's still beautiful, and I
think if you just plant something sort of in front
of it to take, you know, cover up that that
bare trunk. If you don't like it, then you could
certainly do that. You could also maybe even try a
clematis up there to cover it. And you know, if
you're into into crazy different plant.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Ideas, because I did that with a weeping blue spruce. Oh,
I didn't want it in my yard, but it was
a beautiful specimen. I didn't want the blue spruce and
my yard, but it was in the dumpster. Somebody dumped it,
dumped it. So I pulled it out of the dumpster,
brought it back to life, and I have a clematis
that's growing through it.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, it's like, you know, helping it out there, picking
up the sluck. And you know, it's a great It's
exactly what Klementists do in nature. So it's a very
natural kind of solution to that problem. If you're so inclined,
I call.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
It divine intervention.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Do take a look at the picture of Don's landscape
that we're going to have on YouTube or in our
show notes, because I think he's made some great choices.
He clearly has a great love for conifers and a
great eye for designing his landscape. So I'm really grateful
that you sent that in, Don, and keep us posted
on the seater how it goes this season.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Good job done.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
So that's all we have time for today. You know
it is important to us to be able to answer
your gardening questions. So if you have an urgent gardening
question and you need to get in answer, go ahead
and write us. We might be able to answer it
on air, but you can also reach us at Proven
Winners color Choice dot com and get a personalized answer
from one for horticulturists, you don't have to wait around
because unfortunately we seem to always run out of time

(36:04):
despite our best intentions. We're going to take a little
break and when we come back, we have got a
special guest to talk more about using lavender, so please
stay tuned. Thanks for listening to the Gardening Simplified Podcast,
brought to you by Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our
award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens are trialed and tested

(36:26):
by experts with your success in mind. Learn more at
Proven Winners color Choice dot com.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show today for branching
news and interview that we've been looking forward to. Prior
to that, just have to touch on a couple more questions, Stacey,
I have received messages and emails from people I mentioned
a week ago that I'm going to be at Plat
Hill in Chicago on March eighth. For people who are

(36:55):
interested in my schedule, whether it's stand up comedy or
for example, this weekend, the Home and Garden Show and
Grand Rapids, you can find the schedule at thank You
Very mulch dot com. I'm just gonna simply say that
we'll put the link there also on our website, so
it's thank you very mulch dot com. You just click
on stand up and you'll be able to see the

(37:19):
big comedy show coming up on March twenty six, or
if I'm giving talks on gardening, it's all right there
on the website.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yes, and we have a mystery that still needs to
be solved.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yes, we have sparked the internet's biggest newest mystery, apparently
with our question from Stephen Mary last week about the
mysterious sudden pruning of their crepe myrtle in a container.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
People are into this.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yes they are. I was not expecting that, but when
I came in on Monday after the show it aired,
there were a number of people who claim to be
very invested in the Stephen Mary crepe myrtle mystery. So
I'm going to reach out to Stephen Mary. We're going
to see what they think about our answer and some
of the other theories that were put out there on YouTube,
and see if we can't get some closure here.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
I love that the Steve and Mary Craipe myrtle mystery.
Who done it? I love it all right. Tying in
with our lavender talk today, this is going to be fun.
A chance again to talk to Lisa Rose. Lisa's an herbalist, forager,
urban farmer, writer, background in anthropology, and a professional focus

(38:29):
on community health, food farming, wild plant knowledge. I could
go on and on, and her books are much loved. Lisa,
thanks for joining us again on the Gardening Simplified Show.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Thank you very much for having me. And it seems
like we've got a respectable plant to talk about this
time instead of one of my dastardly favorite weeds. Lovely lavender.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, you're right. Usually we're talking stinging nettle or something
like that, but we're talking lavender. Lisa, Do you like lavender?
Let me start there.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
I do. I think it's lovely.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
And what do you like about lavender?

Speaker 3 (39:07):
I love it's aroma. So in my Grand Rapids garden,
I have a lovely firm filled with a lavender love variety.
It's an English lavender and it's you know, when it
comes into flower at the end of June. It's a
wonderful pollinator. And it's filled with all sorts of insects

(39:27):
of course, the variety of bumblebees, natives and even some
of the dastardly glommers, you know, the wasps and whatnot,
but they love those. The aroma, just the aromatics of
the lavender for me, is medicinal. It is uplifting. I
use it also as a culinary spice, and again just
for its visual aesthetic beauty. It's gorgeous and I'm very

(39:52):
lucky to have that burm of lavender because I think
across my time being a gardener, this is the first
time that I finally planted it, and it loves where
it's planted. So I take that as a w in
my book as a gardener.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Always good when you get it right. And just like
you had imagined it. Now, you mentioned using lavender in food,
so you said that you have a lavendula and gustifully
in English lavender variety. Are you harvesting that and using
that in recipes?

Speaker 3 (40:19):
I do in fact, I do an entire suite if
that balance between cutting it back and like, I love
to have the pollinators enjoy it. But I really do
love to do a full cutting of my lavender when
it's in full aromatic, full bloom in the dry weather
of this of the summertime, and then I'll bundle it.
Our viewers are going to be able to see a
couple images of me just simply bundling it and drying

(40:42):
it for use across the year. So again I'll use
it a medicinal plant and then also as a culinary spice,
both the leaves and the flowers.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Oh the leaves too, because I how people mostly only
use the lavender buds in food.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
The entire part of the the aerial parts of the
plant are usable. I tend to gravitate toward making sure
that I harvest for culinary use, of course, and medicinal
use the more tender part of the woody stem and
the newer growth, and retaining the woodier bits for you know,

(41:19):
future productivity.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
We're chatting with Lisa Rose. I've had a front row
seat to be able to watch Lisa over the years
write these wonderful books that are much loved, including Urban
Forager and Lisa. Today, I guess my focus is on
Midwest medicinal plants to identify, harvest and use wild herbs

(41:43):
for health and wellness. I have to admit to you
a month or so ago here on the show, I
sounded kind of nasal because I was dealing with a cold,
and you came to mind. And as a matter of fact,
I walked into the backyard and harvested some pine needles
and boil them up and started breathing and it helped.

(42:05):
So you you came to mind there, Lisa.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
That's that's a blessing. And you know, I love that
that you were able to consider the pine, even though
we're not talking about pine today. It's that aromatic quality
that the tips of the of the spruce and pine
they can be They're different, of course, but they can
be used interchangeably for an herbal steam. They can open
the sinuses like I actually also this time of year,

(42:30):
at the springtime, find pine tips to be extremely helpful
to kind of scrub the gunk that like we'll get
the colds that are going around the ends of the
flu virus or the ends of a you know, a
cold virus. And that pine tipsy is very aromatic and
can help open up you know what's just stuck in grime,

(42:52):
and lavender can honestly behave in the same way in
the winter. If you're using that dried lavender from your garden,
you can create an herbal steam. You can bring that
into the shower in the bathroom, and again it's just aromatic,
opens up the sinuses. And you can even blend the
leaves and the dried flowers with other plants for a

(43:13):
nice aromatic sea if you want to blend it with
a camomile for a little bit of relax and herb,
maybe also with some peppermints. There's no shortage of ideas
on how to blend the lavender into winter wellness.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah, I guess that's where I was going with the comment,
is that in many cases, plants Stacey that we love
in the landscape, including lavender, fragrance or aroma, is just
so important.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
It sounds like a great care for spring fever too exact.
You get a little sense of what's down the line
after a long linter where it seems almost unimaginable in.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Writing your book, Lisa, whether it's lavender or other herbs,
sunlight and drainage really important.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Correct, absolutely, And with the lavender, you know it is
not it's not a native to you know, in the
Michigan areas where I am currently so finding that sweet spot.
It loves the full hot sun and dry soil and
too much water, too little water, not enough water. Nor
it's facing it. She will tell you whether or not

(44:18):
she likes where she's living just by making it through
the winter. So you know I've I've not given up.
And finally, like I said, in my garden, I have
a spot where it's just thriving and it delights me
with happiness. It's like a little bit of Provence, you know,
in my in my gardens that gives me quite a

(44:38):
bit of joy during the summer and then of course
is dried and preserved for the rest of the year
in my in my spice cabinet.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Well, you know, you make a great point because lavender
is definitely one of those plants that needs proper sighting.
So it's a lot of people will think a lavender
is difficult to grow, and that's not necessarily true. It's
just that its needs all are fairly specific, not unusual.
I mean, you're not bending heaven and earth to try
to grow it. But you definitely need that good drain,

(45:07):
and you definitely need that warm sun. And so people
who may not have had success in the past shouldn't
just throw up their hands and write it off. They
should continue to investigate, as you did, you know, whether
there's potentially a better spot in their yard.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah, and it might come to the fact that that
might not be in your garden at all. And so
then it's like that reconciling with well, maybe you know,
maybe there's another plant better suited to you know, the
climate and conditions that are in my garden. Sometimes there's
some acceptance that comes along with that, you know. I
guess I had kind of resolved that if it wasn't

(45:42):
going to grow in my sandy well drained, dry burm,
then I was done. But alas the last one was success.
So that's given me a lot of joy.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Like I said, and do you know what varieties or
variety you planted?

Speaker 3 (45:57):
You know, I'd have to I don't. It might be
a month set. I'd have to go back at my notes.
I'm pretty sure it's a month said. Admittedly, I'm I'm
somebody that kind of just I'm an end of season shopper,
so whatever might be admittedly might be available. I know,
I'm you know, I am your forager, right like I

(46:18):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
The apple doesn't fall.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Far from the tree does not, and you know, I
mean just from an economy sake. And I feel like
the English lavenders as well have a bit more tolerance
for some of the variability that we have because there
is more moisture here, more moisture content in the Great Lakes.
But that's just that's only my limited experience with a

(46:41):
wide range of varieties of lavender.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Lisa as an herbalist. Now that we have inspired people
on today's show to have more lavender in their landscape,
and we talked about the different types of lavender, but
as an herbalist, what are some good companion plays in
your mind for our viewers and our listeners. I mean,

(47:04):
what's a few must have herbs to go along with
that lavender in your garden.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
When I think of a lavender, I do go immediately
to the more traditional French and English style cottage gardens.
And I love my lavender as a border. I love
it as an adjacent to rose bushes, you know, and
in general from my point of view as a forager

(47:33):
and just as someone that looks at a garden space
and considers the ecological balance, I really love to make
sure that I have a diversity of plants in my
garden landscape, so you know, the lavender with the roses
adjacent to my other culinary herbs. I also then have

(47:53):
a bit more wild and uncultivated spaces between my rose
I also so do lots of integration of cover crops
and my walkways and paths, and that helps again from
a companion planting, I'm not a landscape architect by training

(48:14):
at all, and my goodness, if you've seen my garden
that would validate that statement. I am a forager. Let
it grow wild, but I feel that, you know, adding
it adjacent to a diversity of plants in the culinary
garden and looking for the English style and French style
gardens is really my favorite inspiration. With the lavender, I.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Agree, you know, in my garden, I feel like the
way it looks just takes me on a visual vacation
because it does feel you know, a lot of my
gardens are native and wild, and so I'm working on
this very formal herb garden in the back, which does
kind of just like have that you know, Mediterranean vibe.
And you know, it's kind of like the concept of

(48:55):
garden rooms, right, like a different vibe and different you know,
move food in every part of the garden. But I
love it combined with herbs. And you know, for me,
dialing up that silvery foliage just is what kind of
transports you from you know, Western Michigan, which is a
lovely place, but uh, it visually transports you to somewhere

(49:17):
on the you know, Mediterranean instead of Lake Michigan.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
It does one hundred percent. And I love your concept
of the garden room. And that's to say that one
doesn't need a tremendous amount of space. You can style
these plants, especially lavender. It's got portability where you can
have it in containers even if your garden might only
be seasonal, and in patios and use those as beautiful

(49:41):
pops of you know, the silver green. Like there's just
something it does have that Mediterranean vibe. And I think
that northern California. I had lived there for a while, right,
and so it's even you know, northern Michigan up in
Leylano County. The lavender has just got that. It's like
a Christine Madeleine for me as different places that I've

(50:02):
lived and and it does offset some of the more
wild and feral, you know, Michigan roots that I have.
It's it's elegant. Like I said, I'm delighted to have
been upgraded in status today on the show, Rick.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
I love that. I love that. At Lisa, I wanted
to ask you while we had you on. I've had
a number of people reach out to me recently about
b balm or Manarda. Is that a favorite of yours?

Speaker 3 (50:33):
It is a favorite. So Manarda all the species, both
the cultivated, is a common with a variety of different variants.
Is a common one in all of our greenhouses, right,
and it's very common in large scale plantings for gardens,
for buildings, and so it's and then just you know,
even for the regular home gardener. And what I love

(50:58):
about it is that it is on the spectrum of
mint family plants. It's very spicy and aroma and flavor
like youreregano. And then it's blossom is just stunning. It
just has this beautiful, flamboyant bloom right around the fourth
of July that dried for teas. It just holds up

(51:21):
really nicely and can be beautiful and hand dried tea
blends and actually does pair very very well, both fresh
and dried with lavender.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I wouldn't love that. That's interesting me.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Fantastic. I always feel inspired after talking to you, Lisa,
and I'm so anxious for spring, can't wait to get
it started. Lisa Rose an herbalist, forager, urban farmer and writer.
Look for her books. Today we've been talking about Midwest
medicinal plants, identify, harvest and use one hundred and nine

(51:53):
wild herbs for health and wellness. Lisa, For our listeners
and our viewers, how can they find you? How can
they find your books?

Speaker 3 (52:04):
My meanderings and musings can be found on the socials,
on the instagrams and the book of Faces, and then
of course with my writings and books. I'm very lucky
to have a large network of independent booksellers, so I
do recommend folks pick those up there, but also on
the big A delivery vans. Those the Amazon booksellers as

(52:25):
well can get those books into your hand in pretty
rapid fashion.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Fantastic. Thanks for inspiring us again today, Lisa. We appreciate it.
All the best to you and look forward to having
you on the show again down the road.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
It's my pleasure and I'm excited to see maybe potentially
us again sometime in person where we can whip up
a foraged and garden cocktail together something.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Oh yeah, we need to talk about that a moment. Sure,
how we do that? You're whipping up some Tom.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Well, Tom Collins. Yes, one of my favorite little summertime
treats is is whipping up a little bit of lavender
simple syrup, which is you know, using i you know,
using the leaves and the flowers of the lavender create
that simple syrup which has actually got versatility beyond the
cocktail cart. You can even driss little over a little

(53:21):
bit of vanilla ice cream, but mixed in with a
little bit of gin, a little bit of lemon juice,
a little bit of club soda, some lemon slices and
a few fresh lavender sprigs. You know, stir that up,
have a couple of delicious short bread cookies on the side,
and maybe a soop of that ice cream, and that's
a nice June afternoon on the patio in the summertime.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Do you have this recipe in writing Lisa.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
It is in your inbox, sir, it is in your
inbox right now.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yes, And with our viewers and our listeners, oh boy,
if they weren't enticed to grow lavender before, they will
be now.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
So there you go, right out the gate, starting out
the season with really good, good intentions exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
What a wonderful use for lavender. Thank you so much, Lisa.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Take care of yourself, thank you, and I appreciate the
both of you as well. Have a great kickoff this spring.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Thank you too.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Well.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
On that note, I am definitely ready for spring and
pruning my lavender, but not too soon, not until it
actually starts growing and tells me when it wants to
be prune. So we want to thank Lisa Rose for
her time and her great Tom Collins recipe. Thank you, Rick,
thank you, thank you Adriana, and of course thank you
so much to all of you for listening. We truly
do appreciate it and help you have a wonderful week

(54:39):
at