November 24, 2022 • 44 mins
Who knows if it’s getting older or having experienced a global pandemic, but Ali and Melissa are all about getting rid of life’s flashy trappings and making the simple things like friends, family and a real sense of peace their primary focus. Along the way they also touch on her life as a child star playing Laura Ingalls on the classic show “Little House on the Prairie”, setting boundaries and the bliss of a good recliner. Melissa’s newest book and memoir “Back to the Prairie: A Home Remade a Life Rediscovered” details her journey from glitzy Hollywood life to her rediscovering so much more. And she sounds really happy.
If you have questions or guest suggestions, Ali would love to hear from you. Call or text her at (323) 364-6356. Or email go-ask-ali-podcast-at-gmail.com. (No dashes)
**Go Ask Ali has been nominated for a Webby Award for Best Interview/Talk Show Episode! Please vote for her and the whole team at https://bit.ly/415e8uN by April 20, 2023!
Links of Interest:
Back to the Prairie: A Home Remade, a Life Rediscovered
CREDITS:
Executive Producers: Sandie Bailey, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang & Gabrielle Collins
Producer & Editor: Brooke Peterson-Bell
Associate Producer: Akiya McKnight
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Go, Ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. I think, like
a vaginas have a lot to say. I think we
should let them stay out of it and they'll just talk. Yes,
one of the hardest things to absorb for those who
are new to these kinds of fights. Again, if we
want all of them, we wouldn't be here. If you
(00:20):
see a monster, don't try to run away, step right
up to it and say, what do you have to
teach me? Why are you? In my mind, I want
to be the person who has cancer and doesn't run
a marathon, Like do I have to work that hard? No,
it's the best excuse not to run a marathon. Welcome
(00:41):
to go, Ask Allie. I'm Alli Wentworth. I don't know
about you, but I don't know if it's post COVID
or just getting older perhaps wiser. But I've really been
meditating on the idea of a simpler life, and by
simpler I mean cozier, smaller, warmer. I think there's a
(01:04):
few things that we learned going through the pandemic about
how our food can be simpler, our socializing can be simpler,
and what's really important what's sort of at the heart
of everything is our family and our friends. And I
look at my life and the years I lived in Hollywood,
and how now I'm a mom and a wife, and
(01:27):
I really love being home. In fact, I hate going out.
I know that I've scaled back in so many ways.
And I know people that are now, you know, knitting
their own socks or growing their own vegetables. So are
we all becoming more and more fascinated with the idea
(01:48):
of a simpler life. A long time ago, millions of
years ago, when I was a little girl, there is
a show on called Little House in the Prairie, and
it honored and folks on these simple things. And it
was about this little girl, Laura Ingles, who I wanted
to be, and just the fantasy of living on a
(02:09):
prairie and life was about a kettle on the wood fire,
and quilts and one plaid dress and running down the
hill with your dog. It just everything seemed easy and
less stressful and less anxious. And here to talk about
her own journey towards simplicity is Laura Ingles Wilder herself
(02:33):
Melissa Gilbert. Melissa Gilbert may always be best known as
a child star of the hit television show Little House
in the Prairie. Melissa was just nine years old when
the iconic series began in nineteen seventy four, and by
the time it ended in the world had watched half
pint grow up. Since her days as Laura Ingles Wilder,
(02:53):
Melissa has continued her acting career, served two terms as
the President of the Screen Actors Guild, and four books,
including her latest one and memoir in the New York
Times bestseller, Back to the Prairie Home Remade a Life Rediscovered.
In it, she shares her journey from glitzy Hollywood life
to a fix her up or deep in the Catskills
(03:14):
were the only sparkle to be found is the stars
in the sky. So basically, Melissa has become Laura Ingles Wilder. Okay,
Melissa Gilbert, So I met you for twenty seconds. And
here's the thing about getting older, is you into it
(03:36):
more about things? Uh? You and I were both on
Good Morning America. Yes, we were pitching our bibles, pitching
our books, and I walked away. After all we had
to do was do a tease to a commercial, and
I went, I like her. She's she's good. People. You
know what this episode is called. I Want to Be
Friends with Melissa Gilbert. That's it. That's the headline, and
(03:58):
everything else is just uh I sing on the cake.
So um. I will start with one of the things
that you wrote that I loved, which is external matter
more than the internal. And the reason I kind of
love that quote is because I lived in Los Angeles
for a million years and I, you know, I was
(04:18):
kind of I was a fat teenager. I didn't sort
of rely on the exterior. And then I found when
I was out in l A. I wasn't the girl
that went to the gym, you know. I was like, Oh,
I'll be the funny sidekick. You know, I'm gonna I'll
stay in that lane. And over time, I've watched so
many women that I used to know in l A
who got caught up in that web of I have
(04:41):
to be perfect and beautiful and young and it's um
And to me, it's such a cautionary tale because the
depth they've gone to to you know, remain in the
fountain of eternal youth has been very difficult to watch. Yeah,
it's hard. It was completely impossible for me to do anymore.
(05:02):
It's exhausting, trying to fight a natural process to fit
into a mold that everybody else feels you should be in.
It's fruitless and pointless and frustrating. I mean, you know
how many fifty year old ingineuse are there. I'm sadly
quite a few who think they are and are trying
(05:24):
to be. Yeah. And I remember a few years ago
my agent saying, yeah, there's no more roles for you,
and I said, I don't understand what that means. And
he said there's no more roles for women of your age.
And I was like, well, does Diane Lane know this,
because you need to tell the rest of us. And
I thought. It hit me on such a deep level
(05:48):
that I ended up going out and creating a show
called Nightcap, which was on Pop TV, which is a
network no one had ever heard of. But for me,
it fueled this kind of thing of I'll show you
there's no roles for women my age. Um, and it's
the anger sort of got me ignited to do this.
But I I guess I've always fought against that, you
(06:10):
know what I mean. And whenever somebody says no, you
can't or there's no roles for you, or you have
to look like this. I go, I'll show you. I'll
show you. And I think you have that in you too. Yeah,
that's I definitely do. I spent almost my entire life
just pinning my hands behind my back and saying watch
this right and leaning forward, and I'll just create my
(06:32):
own opportunities. Then I'll write something like you did. And
and I think that a lot of that, that tenacity,
you know, it's important, and it's especially important as women
and women who are older. They there's this I don't
know why, but we tend to be forgotten and pushed
away and look through and you know, we start to
(06:53):
become invisible and like you know, cute old ladies and
it doesn't make any sense. And I read your book, um,
the last one, like in a day. I loved it.
But there's a thing that we hopefully get that I
have that I see in you too, this kind of
grounded center. This is me. I like ice cream. I'm unapologetic.
(07:15):
I've earned my opinions. I know what I don't want
in this world. And the other thing that is so
stupid that they're underestimating is we're the consumers. Why they're
not selling to us is beyond me. We have the money.
I completely And by the way, we're also watching the shows,
(07:36):
So start creating content with themes and stories and people
that look like us, because that's who's watching television and streaming. Yeah,
we are your advertising dollars. We are exactly who the
people you should be focused on. And it's just so
mindlessly youth youth, youth, youth, youth oriented. And yes, we
(07:57):
do need content for young people, but come on, there's
the rest of us here too. I completely agree. And
by the way, I have an eighty eight year old
mother who has was it is a formidable person who
did all kinds of amazing things in her life, and
she says to me all the time, there's nothing out
there for me that there's that Jane Fonda show, but
(08:19):
I don't look like her. I'm eighty eight years old.
Don't put me out to pasture. Yea, My mom's the same,
she's eighty six. Yeah, So let me ask you this, because, um,
we are very similar now, but we didn't grow up
in a very similar way. You were a child star
and I'm sort of fascinated with that world because one
(08:40):
of my friends is Brooke Shields, and I say to
her all the time. You should be dead or in rehab.
I don't understand how you're doing dishes or trying to
make lasagna right now because of that insanity that you
guys went through at such a young age. I mean,
you were in the entertainment factory when your frontal lobe
(09:02):
was still developing. You saw things that one shouldn't see
at such a young age. Yeah, but but look at
you now, So why what? What are the things that
it took to get you to be sitting here with
a healthy marriage, in a fabulous cabbage cottage and with
(09:22):
a with a dog chewing on a two toy next
to you, Like, what is that arc? It's it's it's
long arc. And I think the most important thing for
me was about thirty years of therapy. Really, it took
a lot um. I've had conversations with I can't tell
you how many former kid actors and child stars. I
(09:42):
even produced a documentary for any several years ago with
my friend Tony Dow who just passed recently. It was
called child Stars, Their Story and by and large the
common thread. And I even had a conversation this weekend.
I for the first time met Corey Feldman and had
this conversation with him. The problem wasn't so much the
(10:05):
factory or the studio, although that did have its issues
and the sets in the business. It was the way
our families handled it and our family dynamics. The more
dysfunctional the family, the more deadly it could be with
the kids. Um And and the interesting thing I talked
about with Corey Feldman was, um, you know, we we
(10:27):
kind of quickly touched on people we knew in common,
and and I told him I'd seen his documentary and
we touched on that. And I was talking about, um,
my son. Somehow I brought up my son, Michael, who
had gone on tour with me in a musical, and
you know, because we were saying we wouldn't have professional kids,
and I said, I took him with me and I
watched him like a hawk. He was with me, so
there was nothing going to happen. But he was telling
(10:49):
me his son just turned eighteen, and I said, don't
you find it? Did you find it? Incredibly healing that
because with me, when I turned eighteen, like when he
turned eighteen, then you get your cooking money and now
you're an adult, and now you're responsible for everything, and
there's just all this weird stuff that happens when you're
a kid actor and you turn eighteen, and watching my
son's all four of them turn eighteen, so just blithely
(11:13):
like it was just another number was actually really healing
for me. And I asked him if he noticed that too,
and he said absolutely, because my kids a kid, do
you feel like you were robbed of a childhood at all?
I mean, do you feel like you couldn't go out
and be just a girl on the run. I felt
responsible to behave a certain way in public because I
(11:35):
felt like I was an example to other kids, which
was a thing I probably put on myself more than anything. Um.
I also made the mistake once of reading a fan letter. Um,
I wasn't really privy to all of that stuff, and
I snuck into the room where the fan mail was
and I pulled one fan letter out and it happened
to be one from a little girl who said, my
(11:55):
daddy says he'll hit me less if I'm more like you.
Oh my god, And I think I was eleven. That's
too much. Yeah, And that was like I took that
on for sure. Of course, I felt immensely responsible now
for her well being too, so course, Um yeah, there
were there were things now I don't My childhood was
(12:18):
my childhood, and I was really lucky. I grew up
on a set that was really kid friendly. Um we
did have you know, we played, we did stuff, we
got dirty. I had, you know, the requisite broken bones
and sore throats. The thing for me was unlike other kids,
I still had to go to work even with a
sore throat and broken bones. And did you still have
you know, all the things sort of young adults have,
(12:41):
which is the first kiss? I mean, was all that
somewhat protected? I? I think about my teenagers in COVID,
you know, and I always said, like they should be
out robbing liquor stores and getting pregnant like all the
all the teens do, but they were stuck with their parents,
you know, watching documentaries. But did you feel like you
had of all the typical milestones of I did. I did,
(13:05):
And much to my mother's credit, because my father, my
father had passed away when I was eleven, and so
my mother was my primary parents all my life. Um,
she she was actually very protective of me. So I
didn't go on my first date till I was sixteen.
I wasn't allowed to pierce my ears till I was eighteen. Um,
and then of course, you know I turned eighteen and
(13:26):
pierced my ears three and four times. Um, not just
your ears, I would imagine. I know, actually it was
at that point it was just my Well, no, I've
never paarceded anything. I have tattoos. That's another conversation. Um,
I am. I I kind of got a little nuts
in my early twenties. That's when I really like, I
(13:49):
just went a little wild and um, no different than
anybody else who was in college. I would imagine. I
think my life, My life was like a party. It
just happened to be a Hollywood frat party. And they
weren't frat boys. They were bratt boys, brat pack boys.
So it was a little different, and you know, people
(14:09):
were watching what we were doing. But I also came
up at a time where paparazzi we're just paparazzi, and
v I P rooms were still v I P rooms,
so you could go to the back and just act
like idiots and nobody really cared. Now everyone's got a phone,
so everyone's a paparazzo, So there's really no privacy anywhere,
so you know. Um, so you are nestled up in
(14:32):
your cabbage, your term which is a cabin and a cottage.
Right you're there right now? No, actually I'm not. I'm
in our apartment in the city. Pliss is married to
the director, Chimmothy Bussfield. Um. This is our two weeks
of um doctor's appointments and follow ups. Who's having a
colonoscope this week? We are both meeting with gastro and
(14:55):
trologists tomorrow to have our colonoscopy consultations. I love that
you asked you're not having a couple's colonoscopy because that's fun. Well,
we we've talked about what I mean, if you want
to get really into this, I don't know, Tim, Are
you okay with me talking about thumbs up? Um? We
talked about doing it at the same time and just
(15:15):
having a his or hers. But our apartment here in
the city is a nice, perfect little piano tear one bedroom,
one bathroom, so prep day could get a little hectic
with the two of us doing it at the same time.
And this the plumbing in this building is very sensitive,
so I think we might want to stagger. I think
(15:35):
you should stagger or somebody should maybe go to a hotel. Yeah,
because it will be very competitive and there's somebody's going
to lose the race, you know what I mean. And
competitive is good, and your dog is going to get
a mixed message about what he's allowed to do around
the apart exactly. And I sort of like in my
head I pictured the scene in the bathroom and Bridesmaids,
(15:58):
you know, and it just doesn't see smart. There's a
lot more to come after the short break and we're
back with more. Go ask Galey, you did buy this
cabbage cabin cabin cottage. Yes, cabbage. I conflated the two
(16:21):
words and it's stuck. So now it's the cabbage, which
is a fantastic word. And I feel like in this
world of pinterest and everything and you know, the cottage
cozy culture, that cabbage may have a life of its own,
Like it could be a whole industry that people could
tap into, that could be monetized by you. It could
(16:43):
be Well, I do have the Modern Prairie website and
we just launched a lifestyle thing, so I have it.
It's a place for women and older particularly to share
their experience, their thoughts, their ideas, their skills. All of
the women that we prom mote as our mavens and
our makers are All of our products are made by women,
(17:06):
and everything has a story, and we have a wellness section,
and then there's kitchen and home and garden and all
of that, which is so fantastic because I think, particularly
knock on Wood, coming out of this pandemic, I think
people are realizing that there's a coziness that they want
(17:28):
to keep, that there's a connection to community and family
and friends that that they want to nourish. There is
a kind of metaphoric and physical kind of back to
basics what's important ye that I'm trying to hold onto,
which seems like you've really tapped into. Yeah, it's the
(17:48):
simple things that really mattered. Look when when you back
it all up to a couple of years ago, and
we couldn't as a nation get toilet paper, everything else
falls away. You know, what's a manicure, what's a spa day,
What's I mean? All of these things become so wildly unimportant,
(18:12):
And um, I found that I really enjoy that simplicity
and that I don't like you. I don't want to
lose it. I don't want to go back to what
we were. I learned so much about myself and and
Tim and I together found this place of true peace
and tranquility and quietness. And you know, We've got chickens
(18:32):
and we have our garden, and I'm constantly just dirty
and sticky and sweaty and happy. And we cook, we
go to I mean, we're we are old funny duddies.
We go to sleep at ten, we wake up at six,
we go to bed at eight, So we are you
are the funny duddiest, Yes, because George does get up
(18:53):
at three o'clock in the morning to do m so right, Well, yeah,
and yeah, that's not my excuse. But I like a
lot of sleep, and I'm going to go to bed
with my husband, so you know, I'm the same way.
I'm sleep is one of my favorite things to do.
It maybe my favorite activity ever. I get into it
like I care about the pillow. I love a pajama
(19:13):
if George allows me to keep them on. I like
the whole nesting process. We have two dogs that bury
it like it's a whole Eskimo thing that we have
going on in our house, which I love. We were
the exactly the same. The bed is the center of
the house, and when we travel we take our sheets.
You know, I'm a I'm a big princess in the person,
(19:33):
and I love my betting. I totally get it. Are
you going to be selling betting on your website? You know,
we haven't talked about that yet. Maybe I don't know
right now. The only textiles we have our kitchen. We're
really focused on kitchen because women, the women who have
subscribed so far really want to hear the kitchen stuff.
And then we did something really interesting. Um I did
a little Instagram Facebook life thing with a woman I loved.
(19:57):
Her name is Christine Simple, and she's a life coach.
But she's like she's she's a gnarly fantastic life coach
and she's just all about simplicity and loving yourself. That's
really what you gotta do, and like starting so small,
just smile at yourself in the mirror. That's like it.
And she's she's amazing. So we did this this forum together,
(20:18):
and we put out a questionnaire to our members and
said what do you want us to focus on? And
the number one subject that came back was grief, grieving
and healing, and so we're just now putting together another
forum with my best friend Sandy, who lost her firstborn
son when he was sixteen to meningitis and then not
only recovered from the grief herself, but also became a
(20:41):
grief counselor and then wrote a book on it called
How to Survive the Worst That Can Happen, which is
like a step by step workbook on how to get
through that if if it's at all positive. And so
we're going to start without and so these are the
kind of things that I want that sort of sense
of community back that we don't have anymore because we're
(21:01):
also we were so siloed before COVID because of politics,
and then COVID and social media. Yes, well yeah, I
mean you've got some you know people. George carlin Um,
who is one of my favorite stand up comics in
the whole world, once said, the degree to which a
person is an asshole grows exponentially the further away you
(21:24):
are from them physically. So if you're across the room
from that guy, you go, that guy's an asshole. But
if he's standing here, you go, that guy's an asshole.
And social media has made it even worse. People will
say the most horrible things, but they would never say
them to your face. And I think that it really
got exacerbated when we were all locked down too and
(21:46):
then and then the politics and the heat of the
summer and the social unrest and the racial reckoning and
all of that stuff just exploded. And nobody knows how
to I mean, most people don't know how to be
kind anymore, Like we all forgot how to be polite
at least, and it's you know, it's getting worse. It
(22:06):
is getting worse. But one thing I wanted to say
about sort of going back to basics and community is
one thing I've noticed about women our age is that
we can finally, like my friend Katie used to say,
we no longer have to be sexy sexy. We get
to wear big straw hats and grow tomatoes now, and
we just need to you embrace that. Next chapter, you go,
(22:27):
I'm good with this. So what have I learned and
what I want to do? And one thing that I've realized,
you know, I discovered clamming during the pandemic, but I
realized I want to go, Oh, I will take you anytime,
I really will, absolutely I went yesterday actually and got
a hundred clams. And it was so it is just
(22:49):
so it's my meditation. And I now I don't even
use the rake. I sit in the sand and I
just use my hands and I pulled them up and
then I give them all away, give the give a
bunch to the local vet. And that this, you know,
And I realized that I have another friend who used
to be Obama's chief of staff and she now is
(23:11):
an upstate making jam. And so we find these things
that of course, when you're twenty two, you know, you know,
it's not cool to be like, hey, I make jam,
but I knit. Yeah, I'm knit. She makes jam, but
like it's so delicious now that she's like driving it
down to ze Bar, you know it. It's now it's
(23:32):
like baby boom. But I know so many women that
have found these you know, she she's making it into
a business. But small things that bring us so much joy.
And they're simple, they're really simple things. It's simple, and
you have to at least I did this. I came
to this moment where I thought, well, what am I
(23:52):
going to do with this last third of my life?
Am I still going to keep pushing and rushing and
doing and going. I mean to the point of even
when I was running for off years ago, is that
the direction I want to go? Or do I really
want to lean into this peaceful, settled You know, I
love having freedom. I don't really feel particularly consciously ambitious.
(24:14):
I'm still wildly competitive, I always will be, UM, but
I'm I've taken the pressure off to have to win.
I just compete with myself now I don't have to
beat anybody else. And UM, I just I think a
lot of women are at this age reassessing what is
this last third? I want the freedom to be at
(24:36):
mar kids are all over the country. I want to
go see the grandkids whenever I have free time. I
don't want to lock myself into doing things that, um,
I don't want to do anymore. And one of the
one of the things I've learned to do is how
to say no. And I, you know, spent so much
of my life saying yes to everything. Well that's a
hard lesson, by the way, no matter what you do
(24:59):
where you are, you know that you learned to say
no to, especially with people that don't make you feel good.
Like I used to accept every invitation. Oh, yes, yes,
me too. Of course I wanted, so I'm going to
show up. And it wasn't until I married George that
he went, what what are you doing? You know, don't
be so easy and and he sort of taught me.
(25:20):
And his great thing was, you know, so and so
has invited us to a barbecue. Pretend it's happening right now,
do you want to go? And it was always no,
you know what I mean, No, I would rather sit
be sitting here and reading a book with you. And
you know, it was always saying yes for other people, always,
never for myself. Yea, the same, exactly the same. And
(25:41):
now that I'm saying no to so many of these things.
And we don't do these things because we don't want to.
When we actually go to something, it means something. And
people who know us that know that we're not out
all the time, but if we show up, it's because
we really care. I'm thinking of like little things. A
friend of mine, Isabel Gillis, wrote a book called Cozy,
(26:02):
and it's all about things like little things in life
that you can find that are just cozy. And one
of the things she says is cozy is making dinner
in the summer in your bathing suit. And I was
thinking about cozy things in your life and one of
them is and and correct me if I'm wrong. When
you guys have guests come to your cabbage, you take
(26:22):
a polaroid picture of them and hang it on the wall,
which is such a lovely thing because it's not only
very artistic and creative, but I love that, you know,
you the guests sort of lives on forever until until
they come back. Yeah. Yeah, and it it makes it.
It makes the cabbage that much more special because people
leave their imprint behind and we want people to know
(26:45):
that they leave an imprint on us too. So, UM,
I have to go back to one thing when you
were talking about being a child star and that whole
thing of Hollywood. Um, are you still friends with Rob Low?
I know you guys were engaged. No, we we I don't.
I talked to Chadlow more than I talked to Roblow,
(27:06):
and that's not even very often. That was just something
I'm that I didn't know about you, And when I
read it, I went, look at that. But he's he's
not somebody though that you you put in your documentary
about child stars. Well, no, because he didn't really. He
wasn't really a child star. We got together. We were
the same age when we were seventeen, and he didn't
do the outsiders until we were eighteen and I was
(27:29):
still in little house in the prairie. Then how old
were you when you were engaged? Twenty three? We've been
together like six years when we got engaged. Still twenty
three is so young, no kidding. But I still managed
to become a mother at twenty four, So yes, you did.
But that's interesting because I was engaged a few times,
but I only said yes because I didn't want to
(27:51):
upset them. I didn't want to hurt their feelings, but
I knew I was going to marry them. You had
to learn how to say no. No. Literally, you would
have done it now. If they asked you now, you
would have said no. Oh yes, I would have said,
well I said no. Then. I just was like, I
didn't want to upset them at the beginning. But I
(28:11):
was thirty six when I got married, and I feel
like that's kind of the right time. Actually. It is
like I tell my daughters to just you know, you
don't know what you want, and I said, you know,
there's a reason I dated the French director, and that,
this and that, and now out in the world, I
don't look at any human being go oh, I wonder
what that's like. Yeah, me too, same same, I just
(28:33):
go oh, I know what that is. Yeah, keep that
away from me. Yeah. I think before I went into therapy,
I put myself in jeopardy all the time in so
many different ways, just by having no boundaries, dating someone
who didn't treat me right, being engaged to someone who
didn't treat me right, marrying someone I probably should not have.
(28:55):
I'm glad I did because I have a gorgeous son
out of it. But I look back now and go,
oh my god, what was I doing? I was? It
was also dramatic and melodramatic and needlessly crazy and under
the microscope and under the microscope. But you know, if
you take any of it away, I don't get to hear.
So it was all worth it. And I learned a lot,
(29:17):
and I tried to impart a lot of those lessons
onto the boys, and then now consequently with the grandchildren,
who were predominantly female so far. So I now have
all these ladies around me, which is that's so great,
that's exciting. Yeah, which is also making me much more
fierce politically, because now we're talking about my granddaughters and
(29:39):
I don't I'm not having it. I'm with your sister,
I'm with you. We're going to take a short break
and we'll be right back. Welcome back. Speaking of your
(30:00):
granddaughters and what's happening. What did you learn from your
few years in politics? Because I grew up around it,
you know, I grew up in d C. Everybody was
a political journalist. I can't believe I ended up marrying
George Stephanopolis. You know, I thought I'd married Timothy Busfield,
but I was so granted. It was during Watergate, but
I found politics so corrupt. I hated it. Everybody in
(30:24):
d C was having affairs. People were breaking into the
Watergate and I ran off and went to n y
U and then went to l A. And so I'm
fascinated by someone like you who was out in Hollywood.
And then you had your congressional run in sixteen for
a seat in Michigan as a Democrat correct Michigan's eighth district,
(30:45):
And what are your takeaway from that experience? You know,
my political activism, it was always there to a certain extent.
It was very issue oriented. It was either I was
speaking out in behalf of abused children or women's rights,
medical rights and rights to choose. And then I became
the president of Screen Actors Guild, and while I was
(31:08):
President of Screen Actors Guild, I also got elected to
the f l C i O Executive Council, and so
I then got my feet really wet in that political
union world and it was a whole other ballgame and
it really piqued my interests. So when they came to
me and asked me to run a TIM and I
talked about it quite a bit, I definitely went into
(31:29):
it naively. I knew it was going to be hard.
What I discovered was I don't like to do things
where I have to fit into a mold. And I
the thing that really backed me up, aside from people
not listening to my opinion necessarily or Tim's opinions and
just kind of shooting us down because this is the
way it's done, the thing that really got me was
(31:50):
when they sat me down and said, look, we all
know you're funny, and that's great, but could you dial
the humor back when you're out amongst the people, because
they need to take you seriously as a politician. That
got me, and then the other thing that got me
was I had two wardrobes. I had the candidates clothes
and then I had my clothes, and you know, a
lot of nice Calvin clein sheath dresses with a blazer
(32:12):
in a sensible shoe and my little linen overalls and
T shirts. And we were having a fundraiser in a
beer garden in Detroit with the head of the d
Triple C and the Michigan Democratic candidates. So I had
on jeans and a T shirt and a blazer, albeit
on Armani blazer, but jeans and a T shirt and
(32:34):
a blazer. And my campaign manager came to pick me
up and said, you can't wear jeans and I said,
we're going to a beer garden. Yeah, you should be
in jean shorts. There sawdust on the floor. He said, no,
you've got to change. And that's when I thought, oh,
this is just this is not going to go well.
But I put up with it, was willing to do it,
and then my body gave out. My spine. My spine
(32:57):
literally left the building. My net went cab Louie. I
had to have surgery. The recovery was like eight weeks.
I wouldn't have been able to do anything physically. Everybody went, Nope,
you can't. We're going to have to find someone else.
And I had just gotten the nomination, the Democratic nomination.
So when was sixteen. Now, can you imagine if I'd
(33:18):
gotten elected. I can't either. I would have lost my mind. Yes,
I think you would have. I don't think I could
have operated in there in that atmosphere. But I think
what you have held on too, and what led you
in the first place, was you have very strong thoughts
and ideas and values that make you an activist. And
(33:41):
so that's still there, right, The passion is still there. Yeah,
the passion is definitely there. I disagree with your campaign manager.
I think if you are authentically yourself, you would have
done just as well, if not better. Yeah. I think
back then too, people were still a little afraid and
trying to keep everyone in the cookie cutter a mole.
And I think when Trump got elected, all that sort
(34:02):
of went out the window, and now we have, you know,
this sort of free for all of all these people.
But I think that Tim and I because if there's
anyone who's maybe even more of a feminist and a
supporter of women's issues. It's him. He and I feel
like we're both better boots on the ground at this point.
Like in twenty twenty, we launched a podcast. We only
(34:25):
did it for a little while. We just did it
through the election, and it was really politically driven. We
were getting our opinions and ideas about politics across and
endorsing in talking about the candidates we respected in the
candidates we didn't. But you know, it's just it got
to be a lot. That's not to say we won't
do it again. I don't know. We're talking now about
shooting some videos of a character I created when we
lived in Michigan, a gal named Tammy Crip and Fister,
(34:48):
and we may actually get our points across using Tammy.
And you know, Tammy is a big well she's she's
from Minnesota originally, but you know now she lives in Michigan,
but Minnesota is better, but she's out. She loves that Trump,
So she might actually make an appearance if she needs to,
to talk about just wonderful things he's gonna do. Oh god,
(35:09):
I would love to hear from her. I'd like to
hear a nice, healthy debate with her. I could have
a nice debate when you could debate her. We could
do that. I would love to debate her. We could
make that happen. She doesn't think that he might go
to jail or she think Trump has a shot. Oh no,
he's not going to a jail. He didn't do anything wrong.
It's all those other people. You know. It was a
big false flag. Oh, I can't wait till damn he's ugash. Yeah,
(35:35):
she's fun. What are your five favorite things in life
right now that just bring you happiness and bliss besides
your husband and your kids. Oh, come on, it was
going to be my first. I know, I know that's
a given. Your dog, Well, I love her. Yeah, she's
really Our neighbors actually told us this about her in
their right. She's a good citizen. She's a good citizen.
(35:57):
She really is a good citizen. I mean, this is
the dog who on her own when she walks in
New York City. Nobody told her to do this. She
peas on the sidewalk, she poops in the gutter. She's
a good citizen. But do you still pick it up
in the gutter? Oh? Yeah, because we're also good citizens.
I'm just making sure she is owned by so the dog.
(36:20):
I love. I love my home. I love life up there.
I love knitting and cross stitching in my recliner. Oh,
by the way, the recliner is something that you fought
against that your husband Timothy wanted to buy. And by
the way, every heterosexual couple, I feel has this fight
(36:44):
where the man wants to bring in the ugliest chair
he could possibly find. I had that with George. I
threw it away, and you now live in it. It's
my chair. You curl up in it, I do. I
stretch out and love that. I fall asleep open it.
I watched television in it. I clean it with Murphy's oil.
(37:04):
So because it's I don't even know if it's like
some sort of crazy pleather, it's a naga hide or
something god awful. So you treat it like it's your
saddle a little bit. It is. It's my Yes, it's
exactly right. So I'll add that to the list. Actually,
I love my recliner. Let me tell you something that
I'm looking forward to. I want to get two recliners
(37:25):
so that Timothy or in my case, George, has a
recliner himself. And cover it in that faux sheep skin
so it's not only cozy and goes back and the
foot thing comes up, but you're in sheepskin, so it
is so cozy you'll never get up, be like sleeping
in an ug. Yeah. So for Timothy, because he can't
(37:49):
hear us talking, Yes, I think a Christmas gift or
a Hanukkah gift should be his own recliner in sheepskin.
You'll thank me. This will be like the greatest marriage
tip I could give another couple. This is true, and
what would end up happening is that he'd end up
with the Naga hyde and I'd end up Okay, just
so you know, no, No, the undercurrent is all about
(38:09):
you taking care of you. Just who we're clear and
your website, your website of which you're curating these incredibly
crafty women, crafty women in wonderful products at www dot
Modern Prairie dot com. I'm on it. It's really fun
and our community is really growing, and I'm really happy,
(38:31):
really happy. I think women are gonna love it. I
think here comes a big statement that it's just going
to cause problems, but I think that our whole democratic
system is threatened by the idea of women coming together
because I think when women come together, a lot of
seismic things happen. And I think even on a website,
(38:52):
when women come together with their own creativity, it's powerful too.
So I think collectively, the more times we can to
grab each other's hand, it's an incredibly powerful thing. Look,
I'm just looking at the picture of you guys on
the beach walking for um was on Instagram joyful Heart
for joyful Heart, and I did a play reading for
(39:13):
Joyful Heart gosh years ago here in the city, and
just that alone, that was a group of women walking
for something they truly believed in and supported and supporting
one another, and it it is. It's very powerful, and
you can't When you join women together like that, the
most extraordinary things get done. Absolutely, just talking to you, Melissa,
(39:34):
I am empowered and happy and you've brought me good
feelings and I feel enlightened and happy. So thank you.
So before I let you go. In my podcast, go
ask Alli, I like to turn the tables a little
bit so it's not just me asking a bunch of
questions and say, you get to ask me a question
(39:56):
about anything. Oh gosh, Okay, so many dumb questions that
went through my head, like just do something stupid like
panties or a song or a big pick one or something.
But then I realized, there's actually a real question I
want to ask you. Okay. One of my favorite movies
is It's Complicated. But one of my favorite or two
(40:16):
of my favorite scenes are the ladies together scenes. Again,
here we are with women talking with women and empowering women,
and you had a female director. I just like a
dumb general question. What was it like? Did you have
the best time with them? Was it a dreamy set
or was it weird or what? Yes? And I'm glad
you picked that because I would be honest about anything.
(40:38):
And this was a good one because you know, I've
been on sets before that weren't friendly, and you know,
and you have to be funny and you're calling your
agent crying. So this was so good. And I was
so intimidated, you know, because it was a Nancy Myer's film,
it was Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin. It's one of those
you don't sleep two nights before the gig. So I
(41:01):
came on set and the first thing we shot was
the dinner scene, and it was if I had known
them my whole life. And we laughed, and I was,
of course eating the food because it was so Nancy
had really delicious, amazing food always on set, even a
tray of gooey French cheeses that were off to the
(41:22):
side that you don't even saw on camera but you
could smell. And at one point Meryl said, Alie, if
you keep taking a bite, you're gonna have to keep
eating because Nancy is going to do like forty takes.
And so when Nancy would yell cut, it wasn't like
we would all disperse and go to our trailers. We
would sit in the sofas and we would talk about
(41:44):
Bernie made off. We would exchange carrot cake recipes. Rita
was constantly having hot flashes, so we would all like
wave magazines at her. And it was you know, I
think the reason that it felt good watching it was
because it was is authentically nice and cozy, and it's
everything you would hope it to be. So it was
(42:07):
the best experience. I hated leaving the set at night,
and I just love all the women that I got
to do it with. Oh that's so cool, and and
I gotta follow up. I can't. I can't just let
it go. You can't follow off. How much of it
was improv and how much of it was written? Would
you say, like roughly percentage wise? I would say it
was all scripted, all scripted. Yes, it was all scripted, Nancy,
(42:30):
she sticks to the script. I mean I played kind
of as much as I could. But it was a ball.
It was absolutely a ball. Oh my gosh, Melissa, this
was so great. This was not work at all. This
was just fun and this was my podcast. I want
to be friends with Melissa Gilbert. Did I succeed? You did?
I'm seriously want to come clamming. I'm a serious well
(42:52):
and then I'm coming upstate because there's a lot of
stuff upstate I love to do, so absolutely. I like
Auntie king up there, I like Raspberry picking up there,
like the whole Upstate scene. And I have such awe
and respect for you, and I can't wait to take
you clambing. Really, we're holding you to it. Bring your wellies.
I will and the dog. Oh yeah, no, we won't
(43:14):
be able to get her out of the water, but yes,
I'll bring her. I love it. Thank you for listening
to Go Ask Ali. I might be crazy, but I
think Melissa Gilbert's next show is coming off the Prairie
and clamming with Ali. I don't know, but it smells
like a hit. If you would like to know more
about Melissa, you can follow her on Instagram at Melissa
(43:35):
Gilbert Official. You got to read her book Back to
the Prairie Home Remade a Life Rediscovered, and her website,
which I can't wait to click onto, is Modern Prairie
dot com. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast,
and follow me on social media on Twitter at Ali
E Wentworth and on Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth. Now.
(43:58):
If you'd like to ask me a question or suggest
a guest or topic, I'd love to hear from you,
and there's a bunch of ways you can do it.
You can call or text me at three to three
three four six three six, or you can email a
voice memo right from your phone to Go Ask Gali
podcast at gmail dot com. If you leave a question,
you might hear it. I'm Go Ask Gali. Go Ask
(44:24):
Gali is a production of Shonda land Audio and partnership
with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda Land Audio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Go, Ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. I think, like
a vaginas have a lot to say. I think we
should let them stay out of it and they'll just talk. Yes,
one of the hardest things to absorb for those who
are new to these kinds of fights. Again, if we
want all of them, we wouldn't be here. If you
(00:20):
see a monster, don't try to run away, step right
up to it and say, what do you have to
teach me? Why are you? In my mind, I want
to be the person who has cancer and doesn't run
a marathon, Like do I have to work that hard? No,
it's the best excuse not to run a marathon. Welcome
(00:41):
to go, Ask Allie. I'm Alli Wentworth. I don't know
about you, but I don't know if it's post COVID
or just getting older perhaps wiser. But I've really been
meditating on the idea of a simpler life, and by
simpler I mean cozier, smaller, warmer. I think there's a
(01:04):
few things that we learned going through the pandemic about
how our food can be simpler, our socializing can be simpler,
and what's really important what's sort of at the heart
of everything is our family and our friends. And I
look at my life and the years I lived in Hollywood,
and how now I'm a mom and a wife, and
(01:27):
I really love being home. In fact, I hate going out.
I know that I've scaled back in so many ways.
And I know people that are now, you know, knitting
their own socks or growing their own vegetables. So are
we all becoming more and more fascinated with the idea
(01:48):
of a simpler life. A long time ago, millions of
years ago, when I was a little girl, there is
a show on called Little House in the Prairie, and
it honored and folks on these simple things. And it
was about this little girl, Laura Ingles, who I wanted
to be, and just the fantasy of living on a
(02:09):
prairie and life was about a kettle on the wood fire,
and quilts and one plaid dress and running down the
hill with your dog. It just everything seemed easy and
less stressful and less anxious. And here to talk about
her own journey towards simplicity is Laura Ingles Wilder herself
(02:33):
Melissa Gilbert. Melissa Gilbert may always be best known as
a child star of the hit television show Little House
in the Prairie. Melissa was just nine years old when
the iconic series began in nineteen seventy four, and by
the time it ended in the world had watched half
pint grow up. Since her days as Laura Ingles Wilder,
(02:53):
Melissa has continued her acting career, served two terms as
the President of the Screen Actors Guild, and four books,
including her latest one and memoir in the New York
Times bestseller, Back to the Prairie Home Remade a Life Rediscovered.
In it, she shares her journey from glitzy Hollywood life
to a fix her up or deep in the Catskills
(03:14):
were the only sparkle to be found is the stars
in the sky. So basically, Melissa has become Laura Ingles Wilder. Okay,
Melissa Gilbert, So I met you for twenty seconds. And
here's the thing about getting older, is you into it
(03:36):
more about things? Uh? You and I were both on
Good Morning America. Yes, we were pitching our bibles, pitching
our books, and I walked away. After all we had
to do was do a tease to a commercial, and
I went, I like her. She's she's good. People. You
know what this episode is called. I Want to Be
Friends with Melissa Gilbert. That's it. That's the headline, and
(03:58):
everything else is just uh I sing on the cake.
So um. I will start with one of the things
that you wrote that I loved, which is external matter
more than the internal. And the reason I kind of
love that quote is because I lived in Los Angeles
for a million years and I, you know, I was
(04:18):
kind of I was a fat teenager. I didn't sort
of rely on the exterior. And then I found when
I was out in l A. I wasn't the girl
that went to the gym, you know. I was like, Oh,
I'll be the funny sidekick. You know, I'm gonna I'll
stay in that lane. And over time, I've watched so
many women that I used to know in l A
who got caught up in that web of I have
(04:41):
to be perfect and beautiful and young and it's um
And to me, it's such a cautionary tale because the
depth they've gone to to you know, remain in the
fountain of eternal youth has been very difficult to watch. Yeah,
it's hard. It was completely impossible for me to do anymore.
(05:02):
It's exhausting, trying to fight a natural process to fit
into a mold that everybody else feels you should be in.
It's fruitless and pointless and frustrating. I mean, you know
how many fifty year old ingineuse are there. I'm sadly
quite a few who think they are and are trying
(05:24):
to be. Yeah. And I remember a few years ago
my agent saying, yeah, there's no more roles for you,
and I said, I don't understand what that means. And
he said there's no more roles for women of your age.
And I was like, well, does Diane Lane know this,
because you need to tell the rest of us. And
I thought. It hit me on such a deep level
(05:48):
that I ended up going out and creating a show
called Nightcap, which was on Pop TV, which is a
network no one had ever heard of. But for me,
it fueled this kind of thing of I'll show you
there's no roles for women my age. Um, and it's
the anger sort of got me ignited to do this.
But I I guess I've always fought against that, you
(06:10):
know what I mean. And whenever somebody says no, you
can't or there's no roles for you, or you have
to look like this. I go, I'll show you. I'll
show you. And I think you have that in you too. Yeah,
that's I definitely do. I spent almost my entire life
just pinning my hands behind my back and saying watch
this right and leaning forward, and I'll just create my
(06:32):
own opportunities. Then I'll write something like you did. And
and I think that a lot of that, that tenacity,
you know, it's important, and it's especially important as women
and women who are older. They there's this I don't
know why, but we tend to be forgotten and pushed
away and look through and you know, we start to
(06:53):
become invisible and like you know, cute old ladies and
it doesn't make any sense. And I read your book, um,
the last one, like in a day. I loved it.
But there's a thing that we hopefully get that I
have that I see in you too, this kind of
grounded center. This is me. I like ice cream. I'm unapologetic.
(07:15):
I've earned my opinions. I know what I don't want
in this world. And the other thing that is so
stupid that they're underestimating is we're the consumers. Why they're
not selling to us is beyond me. We have the money.
I completely And by the way, we're also watching the shows,
(07:36):
So start creating content with themes and stories and people
that look like us, because that's who's watching television and streaming. Yeah,
we are your advertising dollars. We are exactly who the
people you should be focused on. And it's just so
mindlessly youth youth, youth, youth, youth oriented. And yes, we
(07:57):
do need content for young people, but come on, there's
the rest of us here too. I completely agree. And
by the way, I have an eighty eight year old
mother who has was it is a formidable person who
did all kinds of amazing things in her life, and
she says to me all the time, there's nothing out
there for me that there's that Jane Fonda show, but
(08:19):
I don't look like her. I'm eighty eight years old.
Don't put me out to pasture. Yea, My mom's the same,
she's eighty six. Yeah, So let me ask you this, because, um,
we are very similar now, but we didn't grow up
in a very similar way. You were a child star
and I'm sort of fascinated with that world because one
(08:40):
of my friends is Brooke Shields, and I say to
her all the time. You should be dead or in rehab.
I don't understand how you're doing dishes or trying to
make lasagna right now because of that insanity that you
guys went through at such a young age. I mean,
you were in the entertainment factory when your frontal lobe
(09:02):
was still developing. You saw things that one shouldn't see
at such a young age. Yeah, but but look at
you now, So why what? What are the things that
it took to get you to be sitting here with
a healthy marriage, in a fabulous cabbage cottage and with
(09:22):
a with a dog chewing on a two toy next
to you, Like, what is that arc? It's it's it's
long arc. And I think the most important thing for
me was about thirty years of therapy. Really, it took
a lot um. I've had conversations with I can't tell
you how many former kid actors and child stars. I
(09:42):
even produced a documentary for any several years ago with
my friend Tony Dow who just passed recently. It was
called child Stars, Their Story and by and large the
common thread. And I even had a conversation this weekend.
I for the first time met Corey Feldman and had
this conversation with him. The problem wasn't so much the
(10:05):
factory or the studio, although that did have its issues
and the sets in the business. It was the way
our families handled it and our family dynamics. The more
dysfunctional the family, the more deadly it could be with
the kids. Um And and the interesting thing I talked
about with Corey Feldman was, um, you know, we we
(10:27):
kind of quickly touched on people we knew in common,
and and I told him I'd seen his documentary and
we touched on that. And I was talking about, um,
my son. Somehow I brought up my son, Michael, who
had gone on tour with me in a musical, and
you know, because we were saying we wouldn't have professional kids,
and I said, I took him with me and I
watched him like a hawk. He was with me, so
there was nothing going to happen. But he was telling
(10:49):
me his son just turned eighteen, and I said, don't
you find it? Did you find it? Incredibly healing that
because with me, when I turned eighteen, like when he
turned eighteen, then you get your cooking money and now
you're an adult, and now you're responsible for everything, and
there's just all this weird stuff that happens when you're
a kid actor and you turn eighteen, and watching my
son's all four of them turn eighteen, so just blithely
(11:13):
like it was just another number was actually really healing
for me. And I asked him if he noticed that too,
and he said absolutely, because my kids a kid, do
you feel like you were robbed of a childhood at all?
I mean, do you feel like you couldn't go out
and be just a girl on the run. I felt
responsible to behave a certain way in public because I
(11:35):
felt like I was an example to other kids, which
was a thing I probably put on myself more than anything. Um.
I also made the mistake once of reading a fan letter. Um,
I wasn't really privy to all of that stuff, and
I snuck into the room where the fan mail was
and I pulled one fan letter out and it happened
to be one from a little girl who said, my
(11:55):
daddy says he'll hit me less if I'm more like you.
Oh my god, And I think I was eleven. That's
too much. Yeah, And that was like I took that
on for sure. Of course, I felt immensely responsible now
for her well being too, so course, Um yeah, there
were there were things now I don't My childhood was
(12:18):
my childhood, and I was really lucky. I grew up
on a set that was really kid friendly. Um we
did have you know, we played, we did stuff, we
got dirty. I had, you know, the requisite broken bones
and sore throats. The thing for me was unlike other kids,
I still had to go to work even with a
sore throat and broken bones. And did you still have
you know, all the things sort of young adults have,
(12:41):
which is the first kiss? I mean, was all that
somewhat protected? I? I think about my teenagers in COVID,
you know, and I always said, like they should be
out robbing liquor stores and getting pregnant like all the
all the teens do, but they were stuck with their parents,
you know, watching documentaries. But did you feel like you
had of all the typical milestones of I did. I did,
(13:05):
And much to my mother's credit, because my father, my
father had passed away when I was eleven, and so
my mother was my primary parents all my life. Um,
she she was actually very protective of me. So I
didn't go on my first date till I was sixteen.
I wasn't allowed to pierce my ears till I was eighteen. Um,
and then of course, you know I turned eighteen and
(13:26):
pierced my ears three and four times. Um, not just
your ears, I would imagine. I know, actually it was
at that point it was just my Well, no, I've
never paarceded anything. I have tattoos. That's another conversation. Um,
I am. I I kind of got a little nuts
in my early twenties. That's when I really like, I
(13:49):
just went a little wild and um, no different than
anybody else who was in college. I would imagine. I
think my life, My life was like a party. It
just happened to be a Hollywood frat party. And they
weren't frat boys. They were bratt boys, brat pack boys.
So it was a little different, and you know, people
(14:09):
were watching what we were doing. But I also came
up at a time where paparazzi we're just paparazzi, and
v I P rooms were still v I P rooms,
so you could go to the back and just act
like idiots and nobody really cared. Now everyone's got a phone,
so everyone's a paparazzo, So there's really no privacy anywhere,
so you know. Um, so you are nestled up in
(14:32):
your cabbage, your term which is a cabin and a cottage.
Right you're there right now? No, actually I'm not. I'm
in our apartment in the city. Pliss is married to
the director, Chimmothy Bussfield. Um. This is our two weeks
of um doctor's appointments and follow ups. Who's having a
colonoscope this week? We are both meeting with gastro and
(14:55):
trologists tomorrow to have our colonoscopy consultations. I love that
you asked you're not having a couple's colonoscopy because that's fun. Well,
we we've talked about what I mean, if you want
to get really into this, I don't know, Tim, Are
you okay with me talking about thumbs up? Um? We
talked about doing it at the same time and just
(15:15):
having a his or hers. But our apartment here in
the city is a nice, perfect little piano tear one bedroom,
one bathroom, so prep day could get a little hectic
with the two of us doing it at the same time.
And this the plumbing in this building is very sensitive,
so I think we might want to stagger. I think
(15:35):
you should stagger or somebody should maybe go to a hotel. Yeah,
because it will be very competitive and there's somebody's going
to lose the race, you know what I mean. And
competitive is good, and your dog is going to get
a mixed message about what he's allowed to do around
the apart exactly. And I sort of like in my
head I pictured the scene in the bathroom and Bridesmaids,
(15:58):
you know, and it just doesn't see smart. There's a
lot more to come after the short break and we're
back with more. Go ask Galey, you did buy this
cabbage cabin cabin cottage. Yes, cabbage. I conflated the two
(16:21):
words and it's stuck. So now it's the cabbage, which
is a fantastic word. And I feel like in this
world of pinterest and everything and you know, the cottage
cozy culture, that cabbage may have a life of its own,
Like it could be a whole industry that people could
tap into, that could be monetized by you. It could
(16:43):
be Well, I do have the Modern Prairie website and
we just launched a lifestyle thing, so I have it.
It's a place for women and older particularly to share
their experience, their thoughts, their ideas, their skills. All of
the women that we prom mote as our mavens and
our makers are All of our products are made by women,
(17:06):
and everything has a story, and we have a wellness section,
and then there's kitchen and home and garden and all
of that, which is so fantastic because I think, particularly
knock on Wood, coming out of this pandemic, I think
people are realizing that there's a coziness that they want
(17:28):
to keep, that there's a connection to community and family
and friends that that they want to nourish. There is
a kind of metaphoric and physical kind of back to
basics what's important ye that I'm trying to hold onto,
which seems like you've really tapped into. Yeah, it's the
(17:48):
simple things that really mattered. Look when when you back
it all up to a couple of years ago, and
we couldn't as a nation get toilet paper, everything else
falls away. You know, what's a manicure, what's a spa day,
What's I mean? All of these things become so wildly unimportant,
(18:12):
And um, I found that I really enjoy that simplicity
and that I don't like you. I don't want to
lose it. I don't want to go back to what
we were. I learned so much about myself and and
Tim and I together found this place of true peace
and tranquility and quietness. And you know, We've got chickens
(18:32):
and we have our garden, and I'm constantly just dirty
and sticky and sweaty and happy. And we cook, we
go to I mean, we're we are old funny duddies.
We go to sleep at ten, we wake up at six,
we go to bed at eight, So we are you
are the funny duddiest, Yes, because George does get up
(18:53):
at three o'clock in the morning to do m so right, Well, yeah,
and yeah, that's not my excuse. But I like a
lot of sleep, and I'm going to go to bed
with my husband, so you know, I'm the same way.
I'm sleep is one of my favorite things to do.
It maybe my favorite activity ever. I get into it
like I care about the pillow. I love a pajama
(19:13):
if George allows me to keep them on. I like
the whole nesting process. We have two dogs that bury
it like it's a whole Eskimo thing that we have
going on in our house, which I love. We were
the exactly the same. The bed is the center of
the house, and when we travel we take our sheets.
You know, I'm a I'm a big princess in the person,
(19:33):
and I love my betting. I totally get it. Are
you going to be selling betting on your website? You know,
we haven't talked about that yet. Maybe I don't know
right now. The only textiles we have our kitchen. We're
really focused on kitchen because women, the women who have
subscribed so far really want to hear the kitchen stuff.
And then we did something really interesting. Um I did
a little Instagram Facebook life thing with a woman I loved.
(19:57):
Her name is Christine Simple, and she's a life coach.
But she's like she's she's a gnarly fantastic life coach
and she's just all about simplicity and loving yourself. That's
really what you gotta do, and like starting so small,
just smile at yourself in the mirror. That's like it.
And she's she's amazing. So we did this this forum together,
(20:18):
and we put out a questionnaire to our members and
said what do you want us to focus on? And
the number one subject that came back was grief, grieving
and healing, and so we're just now putting together another
forum with my best friend Sandy, who lost her firstborn
son when he was sixteen to meningitis and then not
only recovered from the grief herself, but also became a
(20:41):
grief counselor and then wrote a book on it called
How to Survive the Worst That Can Happen, which is
like a step by step workbook on how to get
through that if if it's at all positive. And so
we're going to start without and so these are the
kind of things that I want that sort of sense
of community back that we don't have anymore because we're
(21:01):
also we were so siloed before COVID because of politics,
and then COVID and social media. Yes, well yeah, I
mean you've got some you know people. George carlin Um,
who is one of my favorite stand up comics in
the whole world, once said, the degree to which a
person is an asshole grows exponentially the further away you
(21:24):
are from them physically. So if you're across the room
from that guy, you go, that guy's an asshole. But
if he's standing here, you go, that guy's an asshole.
And social media has made it even worse. People will
say the most horrible things, but they would never say
them to your face. And I think that it really
got exacerbated when we were all locked down too and
(21:46):
then and then the politics and the heat of the
summer and the social unrest and the racial reckoning and
all of that stuff just exploded. And nobody knows how
to I mean, most people don't know how to be
kind anymore, Like we all forgot how to be polite
at least, and it's you know, it's getting worse. It
(22:06):
is getting worse. But one thing I wanted to say
about sort of going back to basics and community is
one thing I've noticed about women our age is that
we can finally, like my friend Katie used to say,
we no longer have to be sexy sexy. We get
to wear big straw hats and grow tomatoes now, and
we just need to you embrace that. Next chapter, you go,
(22:27):
I'm good with this. So what have I learned and
what I want to do? And one thing that I've realized,
you know, I discovered clamming during the pandemic, but I
realized I want to go, Oh, I will take you anytime,
I really will, absolutely I went yesterday actually and got
a hundred clams. And it was so it is just
(22:49):
so it's my meditation. And I now I don't even
use the rake. I sit in the sand and I
just use my hands and I pulled them up and
then I give them all away, give the give a
bunch to the local vet. And that this, you know,
And I realized that I have another friend who used
to be Obama's chief of staff and she now is
(23:11):
an upstate making jam. And so we find these things
that of course, when you're twenty two, you know, you know,
it's not cool to be like, hey, I make jam,
but I knit. Yeah, I'm knit. She makes jam, but
like it's so delicious now that she's like driving it
down to ze Bar, you know it. It's now it's
(23:32):
like baby boom. But I know so many women that
have found these you know, she she's making it into
a business. But small things that bring us so much joy.
And they're simple, they're really simple things. It's simple, and
you have to at least I did this. I came
to this moment where I thought, well, what am I
(23:52):
going to do with this last third of my life?
Am I still going to keep pushing and rushing and
doing and going. I mean to the point of even
when I was running for off years ago, is that
the direction I want to go? Or do I really
want to lean into this peaceful, settled You know, I
love having freedom. I don't really feel particularly consciously ambitious.
(24:14):
I'm still wildly competitive, I always will be, UM, but
I'm I've taken the pressure off to have to win.
I just compete with myself now I don't have to
beat anybody else. And UM, I just I think a
lot of women are at this age reassessing what is
this last third? I want the freedom to be at
(24:36):
mar kids are all over the country. I want to
go see the grandkids whenever I have free time. I
don't want to lock myself into doing things that, um,
I don't want to do anymore. And one of the
one of the things I've learned to do is how
to say no. And I, you know, spent so much
of my life saying yes to everything. Well that's a
hard lesson, by the way, no matter what you do
(24:59):
where you are, you know that you learned to say
no to, especially with people that don't make you feel good.
Like I used to accept every invitation. Oh, yes, yes,
me too. Of course I wanted, so I'm going to
show up. And it wasn't until I married George that
he went, what what are you doing? You know, don't
be so easy and and he sort of taught me.
(25:20):
And his great thing was, you know, so and so
has invited us to a barbecue. Pretend it's happening right now,
do you want to go? And it was always no,
you know what I mean, No, I would rather sit
be sitting here and reading a book with you. And
you know, it was always saying yes for other people, always,
never for myself. Yea, the same, exactly the same. And
(25:41):
now that I'm saying no to so many of these things.
And we don't do these things because we don't want to.
When we actually go to something, it means something. And
people who know us that know that we're not out
all the time, but if we show up, it's because
we really care. I'm thinking of like little things. A
friend of mine, Isabel Gillis, wrote a book called Cozy,
(26:02):
and it's all about things like little things in life
that you can find that are just cozy. And one
of the things she says is cozy is making dinner
in the summer in your bathing suit. And I was
thinking about cozy things in your life and one of
them is and and correct me if I'm wrong. When
you guys have guests come to your cabbage, you take
(26:22):
a polaroid picture of them and hang it on the wall,
which is such a lovely thing because it's not only
very artistic and creative, but I love that, you know,
you the guests sort of lives on forever until until
they come back. Yeah. Yeah, and it it makes it.
It makes the cabbage that much more special because people
leave their imprint behind and we want people to know
(26:45):
that they leave an imprint on us too. So, UM,
I have to go back to one thing when you
were talking about being a child star and that whole
thing of Hollywood. Um, are you still friends with Rob Low?
I know you guys were engaged. No, we we I don't.
I talked to Chadlow more than I talked to Roblow,
(27:06):
and that's not even very often. That was just something
I'm that I didn't know about you, And when I
read it, I went, look at that. But he's he's
not somebody though that you you put in your documentary
about child stars. Well, no, because he didn't really. He
wasn't really a child star. We got together. We were
the same age when we were seventeen, and he didn't
do the outsiders until we were eighteen and I was
(27:29):
still in little house in the prairie. Then how old
were you when you were engaged? Twenty three? We've been
together like six years when we got engaged. Still twenty
three is so young, no kidding. But I still managed
to become a mother at twenty four, So yes, you did.
But that's interesting because I was engaged a few times,
but I only said yes because I didn't want to
(27:51):
upset them. I didn't want to hurt their feelings, but
I knew I was going to marry them. You had
to learn how to say no. No. Literally, you would
have done it now. If they asked you now, you
would have said no. Oh yes, I would have said,
well I said no. Then. I just was like, I
didn't want to upset them at the beginning. But I
(28:11):
was thirty six when I got married, and I feel
like that's kind of the right time. Actually. It is
like I tell my daughters to just you know, you
don't know what you want, and I said, you know,
there's a reason I dated the French director, and that,
this and that, and now out in the world, I
don't look at any human being go oh, I wonder
what that's like. Yeah, me too, same same, I just
(28:33):
go oh, I know what that is. Yeah, keep that
away from me. Yeah. I think before I went into therapy,
I put myself in jeopardy all the time in so
many different ways, just by having no boundaries, dating someone
who didn't treat me right, being engaged to someone who
didn't treat me right, marrying someone I probably should not have.
(28:55):
I'm glad I did because I have a gorgeous son
out of it. But I look back now and go,
oh my god, what was I doing? I was? It
was also dramatic and melodramatic and needlessly crazy and under
the microscope and under the microscope. But you know, if
you take any of it away, I don't get to hear.
So it was all worth it. And I learned a lot,
(29:17):
and I tried to impart a lot of those lessons
onto the boys, and then now consequently with the grandchildren,
who were predominantly female so far. So I now have
all these ladies around me, which is that's so great,
that's exciting. Yeah, which is also making me much more
fierce politically, because now we're talking about my granddaughters and
(29:39):
I don't I'm not having it. I'm with your sister,
I'm with you. We're going to take a short break
and we'll be right back. Welcome back. Speaking of your
(30:00):
granddaughters and what's happening. What did you learn from your
few years in politics? Because I grew up around it,
you know, I grew up in d C. Everybody was
a political journalist. I can't believe I ended up marrying
George Stephanopolis. You know, I thought I'd married Timothy Busfield,
but I was so granted. It was during Watergate, but
I found politics so corrupt. I hated it. Everybody in
(30:24):
d C was having affairs. People were breaking into the
Watergate and I ran off and went to n y
U and then went to l A. And so I'm
fascinated by someone like you who was out in Hollywood.
And then you had your congressional run in sixteen for
a seat in Michigan as a Democrat correct Michigan's eighth district,
(30:45):
And what are your takeaway from that experience? You know,
my political activism, it was always there to a certain extent.
It was very issue oriented. It was either I was
speaking out in behalf of abused children or women's rights,
medical rights and rights to choose. And then I became
the president of Screen Actors Guild, and while I was
(31:08):
President of Screen Actors Guild, I also got elected to
the f l C i O Executive Council, and so
I then got my feet really wet in that political
union world and it was a whole other ballgame and
it really piqued my interests. So when they came to
me and asked me to run a TIM and I
talked about it quite a bit, I definitely went into
(31:29):
it naively. I knew it was going to be hard.
What I discovered was I don't like to do things
where I have to fit into a mold. And I
the thing that really backed me up, aside from people
not listening to my opinion necessarily or Tim's opinions and
just kind of shooting us down because this is the
way it's done, the thing that really got me was
(31:50):
when they sat me down and said, look, we all
know you're funny, and that's great, but could you dial
the humor back when you're out amongst the people, because
they need to take you seriously as a politician. That
got me, and then the other thing that got me
was I had two wardrobes. I had the candidates clothes
and then I had my clothes, and you know, a
lot of nice Calvin clein sheath dresses with a blazer
(32:12):
in a sensible shoe and my little linen overalls and
T shirts. And we were having a fundraiser in a
beer garden in Detroit with the head of the d
Triple C and the Michigan Democratic candidates. So I had
on jeans and a T shirt and a blazer, albeit
on Armani blazer, but jeans and a T shirt and
(32:34):
a blazer. And my campaign manager came to pick me
up and said, you can't wear jeans and I said,
we're going to a beer garden. Yeah, you should be
in jean shorts. There sawdust on the floor. He said, no,
you've got to change. And that's when I thought, oh,
this is just this is not going to go well.
But I put up with it, was willing to do it,
and then my body gave out. My spine. My spine
(32:57):
literally left the building. My net went cab Louie. I
had to have surgery. The recovery was like eight weeks.
I wouldn't have been able to do anything physically. Everybody went, Nope,
you can't. We're going to have to find someone else.
And I had just gotten the nomination, the Democratic nomination.
So when was sixteen. Now, can you imagine if I'd
(33:18):
gotten elected. I can't either. I would have lost my mind. Yes,
I think you would have. I don't think I could
have operated in there in that atmosphere. But I think
what you have held on too, and what led you
in the first place, was you have very strong thoughts
and ideas and values that make you an activist. And
(33:41):
so that's still there, right, The passion is still there. Yeah,
the passion is definitely there. I disagree with your campaign manager.
I think if you are authentically yourself, you would have
done just as well, if not better. Yeah. I think
back then too, people were still a little afraid and
trying to keep everyone in the cookie cutter a mole.
And I think when Trump got elected, all that sort
(34:02):
of went out the window, and now we have, you know,
this sort of free for all of all these people.
But I think that Tim and I because if there's
anyone who's maybe even more of a feminist and a
supporter of women's issues. It's him. He and I feel
like we're both better boots on the ground at this point.
Like in twenty twenty, we launched a podcast. We only
(34:25):
did it for a little while. We just did it
through the election, and it was really politically driven. We
were getting our opinions and ideas about politics across and
endorsing in talking about the candidates we respected in the
candidates we didn't. But you know, it's just it got
to be a lot. That's not to say we won't
do it again. I don't know. We're talking now about
shooting some videos of a character I created when we
lived in Michigan, a gal named Tammy Crip and Fister,
(34:48):
and we may actually get our points across using Tammy.
And you know, Tammy is a big well she's she's
from Minnesota originally, but you know now she lives in Michigan,
but Minnesota is better, but she's out. She loves that Trump,
So she might actually make an appearance if she needs to,
to talk about just wonderful things he's gonna do. Oh god,
(35:09):
I would love to hear from her. I'd like to
hear a nice, healthy debate with her. I could have
a nice debate when you could debate her. We could
do that. I would love to debate her. We could
make that happen. She doesn't think that he might go
to jail or she think Trump has a shot. Oh no,
he's not going to a jail. He didn't do anything wrong.
It's all those other people. You know. It was a
big false flag. Oh, I can't wait till damn he's ugash. Yeah,
(35:35):
she's fun. What are your five favorite things in life
right now that just bring you happiness and bliss besides
your husband and your kids. Oh, come on, it was
going to be my first. I know, I know that's
a given. Your dog, Well, I love her. Yeah, she's
really Our neighbors actually told us this about her in
their right. She's a good citizen. She's a good citizen.
(35:57):
She really is a good citizen. I mean, this is
the dog who on her own when she walks in
New York City. Nobody told her to do this. She
peas on the sidewalk, she poops in the gutter. She's
a good citizen. But do you still pick it up
in the gutter? Oh? Yeah, because we're also good citizens.
I'm just making sure she is owned by so the dog.
(36:20):
I love. I love my home. I love life up there.
I love knitting and cross stitching in my recliner. Oh,
by the way, the recliner is something that you fought
against that your husband Timothy wanted to buy. And by
the way, every heterosexual couple, I feel has this fight
(36:44):
where the man wants to bring in the ugliest chair
he could possibly find. I had that with George. I
threw it away, and you now live in it. It's
my chair. You curl up in it, I do. I
stretch out and love that. I fall asleep open it.
I watched television in it. I clean it with Murphy's oil.
(37:04):
So because it's I don't even know if it's like
some sort of crazy pleather, it's a naga hide or
something god awful. So you treat it like it's your
saddle a little bit. It is. It's my Yes, it's
exactly right. So I'll add that to the list. Actually,
I love my recliner. Let me tell you something that
I'm looking forward to. I want to get two recliners
(37:25):
so that Timothy or in my case, George, has a
recliner himself. And cover it in that faux sheep skin
so it's not only cozy and goes back and the
foot thing comes up, but you're in sheepskin, so it
is so cozy you'll never get up, be like sleeping
in an ug. Yeah. So for Timothy, because he can't
(37:49):
hear us talking, Yes, I think a Christmas gift or
a Hanukkah gift should be his own recliner in sheepskin.
You'll thank me. This will be like the greatest marriage
tip I could give another couple. This is true, and
what would end up happening is that he'd end up
with the Naga hyde and I'd end up Okay, just
so you know, no, No, the undercurrent is all about
(38:09):
you taking care of you. Just who we're clear and
your website, your website of which you're curating these incredibly
crafty women, crafty women in wonderful products at www dot
Modern Prairie dot com. I'm on it. It's really fun
and our community is really growing, and I'm really happy,
(38:31):
really happy. I think women are gonna love it. I
think here comes a big statement that it's just going
to cause problems, but I think that our whole democratic
system is threatened by the idea of women coming together
because I think when women come together, a lot of
seismic things happen. And I think even on a website,
(38:52):
when women come together with their own creativity, it's powerful too.
So I think collectively, the more times we can to
grab each other's hand, it's an incredibly powerful thing. Look,
I'm just looking at the picture of you guys on
the beach walking for um was on Instagram joyful Heart
for joyful Heart, and I did a play reading for
(39:13):
Joyful Heart gosh years ago here in the city, and
just that alone, that was a group of women walking
for something they truly believed in and supported and supporting
one another, and it it is. It's very powerful, and
you can't When you join women together like that, the
most extraordinary things get done. Absolutely, just talking to you, Melissa,
(39:34):
I am empowered and happy and you've brought me good
feelings and I feel enlightened and happy. So thank you.
So before I let you go. In my podcast, go
ask Alli, I like to turn the tables a little
bit so it's not just me asking a bunch of
questions and say, you get to ask me a question
(39:56):
about anything. Oh gosh, Okay, so many dumb questions that
went through my head, like just do something stupid like
panties or a song or a big pick one or something.
But then I realized, there's actually a real question I
want to ask you. Okay. One of my favorite movies
is It's Complicated. But one of my favorite or two
(40:16):
of my favorite scenes are the ladies together scenes. Again,
here we are with women talking with women and empowering women,
and you had a female director. I just like a
dumb general question. What was it like? Did you have
the best time with them? Was it a dreamy set
or was it weird or what? Yes? And I'm glad
you picked that because I would be honest about anything.
(40:38):
And this was a good one because you know, I've
been on sets before that weren't friendly, and you know,
and you have to be funny and you're calling your
agent crying. So this was so good. And I was
so intimidated, you know, because it was a Nancy Myer's film,
it was Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin. It's one of those
you don't sleep two nights before the gig. So I
(41:01):
came on set and the first thing we shot was
the dinner scene, and it was if I had known
them my whole life. And we laughed, and I was,
of course eating the food because it was so Nancy
had really delicious, amazing food always on set, even a
tray of gooey French cheeses that were off to the
(41:22):
side that you don't even saw on camera but you
could smell. And at one point Meryl said, Alie, if
you keep taking a bite, you're gonna have to keep
eating because Nancy is going to do like forty takes.
And so when Nancy would yell cut, it wasn't like
we would all disperse and go to our trailers. We
would sit in the sofas and we would talk about
(41:44):
Bernie made off. We would exchange carrot cake recipes. Rita
was constantly having hot flashes, so we would all like
wave magazines at her. And it was you know, I
think the reason that it felt good watching it was
because it was is authentically nice and cozy, and it's
everything you would hope it to be. So it was
(42:07):
the best experience. I hated leaving the set at night,
and I just love all the women that I got
to do it with. Oh that's so cool, and and
I gotta follow up. I can't. I can't just let
it go. You can't follow off. How much of it
was improv and how much of it was written? Would
you say, like roughly percentage wise? I would say it
was all scripted, all scripted. Yes, it was all scripted, Nancy,
(42:30):
she sticks to the script. I mean I played kind
of as much as I could. But it was a ball.
It was absolutely a ball. Oh my gosh, Melissa, this
was so great. This was not work at all. This
was just fun and this was my podcast. I want
to be friends with Melissa Gilbert. Did I succeed? You did?
I'm seriously want to come clamming. I'm a serious well
(42:52):
and then I'm coming upstate because there's a lot of
stuff upstate I love to do, so absolutely. I like
Auntie king up there, I like Raspberry picking up there,
like the whole Upstate scene. And I have such awe
and respect for you, and I can't wait to take
you clambing. Really, we're holding you to it. Bring your wellies.
I will and the dog. Oh yeah, no, we won't
(43:14):
be able to get her out of the water, but yes,
I'll bring her. I love it. Thank you for listening
to Go Ask Ali. I might be crazy, but I
think Melissa Gilbert's next show is coming off the Prairie
and clamming with Ali. I don't know, but it smells
like a hit. If you would like to know more
about Melissa, you can follow her on Instagram at Melissa
(43:35):
Gilbert Official. You got to read her book Back to
the Prairie Home Remade a Life Rediscovered, and her website,
which I can't wait to click onto, is Modern Prairie
dot com. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast,
and follow me on social media on Twitter at Ali
E Wentworth and on Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth. Now.
(43:58):
If you'd like to ask me a question or suggest
a guest or topic, I'd love to hear from you,
and there's a bunch of ways you can do it.
You can call or text me at three to three
three four six three six, or you can email a
voice memo right from your phone to Go Ask Gali
podcast at gmail dot com. If you leave a question,
you might hear it. I'm Go Ask Gali. Go Ask
(44:24):
Gali is a production of Shonda land Audio and partnership
with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda Land Audio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com